1 00:00:09,119 --> 00:00:11,600 Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Save your Protection of iHeartRadio. I'm 2 00:00:11,640 --> 00:00:12,240 Speaker 1: any Reason and. 3 00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:14,240 Speaker 2: I'm more on Vocal Bomb, and today we have an 4 00:00:14,280 --> 00:00:16,920 Speaker 2: episode for you about squab. 5 00:00:17,840 --> 00:00:22,920 Speaker 1: Squab, which is real fun to say squab squab. Why 6 00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:25,320 Speaker 1: was there any reason this was on your mind? 7 00:00:26,280 --> 00:00:29,720 Speaker 2: I was trying to think of a protein that maybe 8 00:00:29,800 --> 00:00:31,960 Speaker 2: wasn't a seafood because I feel like the last couple 9 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:36,839 Speaker 2: that we've done have been seafoods, and I didn't feel 10 00:00:36,880 --> 00:00:43,600 Speaker 2: like getting into anything bigger than this topic, so that 11 00:00:43,640 --> 00:00:47,000 Speaker 2: this was just a nice, manageably sized topic, much like 12 00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:47,800 Speaker 2: the bird itself. 13 00:00:48,960 --> 00:00:54,400 Speaker 1: Indeed, indeed, and it is fascinating. I learned a lot 14 00:00:54,480 --> 00:01:00,600 Speaker 1: of stuff I was not anticipated on this one. Yes, yes, 15 00:01:00,920 --> 00:01:04,200 Speaker 1: in fact thought part of this was a myth. So 16 00:01:04,800 --> 00:01:08,840 Speaker 1: it's gonna be fun to go over. I have had squab, yeah, 17 00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:15,280 Speaker 1: I remember specifically. I've had it twice. Okay, once was 18 00:01:15,319 --> 00:01:19,520 Speaker 1: at a friend restaurant in New Orleans, Share and it 19 00:01:19,600 --> 00:01:27,039 Speaker 1: was delicious. It was very decadent. And once my grandfather, 20 00:01:27,720 --> 00:01:31,360 Speaker 1: who I don't know, I didn't know this was a 21 00:01:31,360 --> 00:01:33,720 Speaker 1: thing back then, but he was very into food. Like 22 00:01:33,760 --> 00:01:38,720 Speaker 1: he he was involved in the cooking. He loved like 23 00:01:40,040 --> 00:01:45,760 Speaker 1: branching out. Oh it's awesome. Yeah, like he really I 24 00:01:45,760 --> 00:01:48,120 Speaker 1: guess with him, you had like a couple of things 25 00:01:48,120 --> 00:01:50,640 Speaker 1: that he would cook often, but there were a lot 26 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:52,240 Speaker 1: of times he was just like, I just want to 27 00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:55,880 Speaker 1: try something new, I want to do this. And I 28 00:01:55,880 --> 00:02:01,800 Speaker 1: think a lot of my kind of extravertedness I associate 29 00:02:01,840 --> 00:02:05,880 Speaker 1: with him because a lot of times that is you 30 00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:09,000 Speaker 1: just want to try something new. Yeah, yeah, even if 31 00:02:09,080 --> 00:02:11,240 Speaker 1: like you've had the thing before, but you haven't cooked 32 00:02:11,240 --> 00:02:13,880 Speaker 1: it before, you cooked it in this way before. And 33 00:02:13,919 --> 00:02:18,040 Speaker 1: he cooked it once when I was young, but it 34 00:02:18,120 --> 00:02:22,400 Speaker 1: was delicious, But I remember thinking the bones were such 35 00:02:22,400 --> 00:02:27,079 Speaker 1: a pain. That's like my strongest I remember thinking it 36 00:02:27,160 --> 00:02:30,120 Speaker 1: was really good, but like I was a kid, and 37 00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:30,360 Speaker 1: I was. 38 00:02:30,360 --> 00:02:33,400 Speaker 2: Like, you're like bones, are there so many of them? 39 00:02:33,680 --> 00:02:37,280 Speaker 1: Right? Yeah? Sure, yeah, I don't. 40 00:02:37,360 --> 00:02:38,560 Speaker 2: I don't think i've ever had it. 41 00:02:39,760 --> 00:02:43,520 Speaker 1: Oh well, it is quite good. 42 00:02:43,760 --> 00:02:47,160 Speaker 2: I'm yeah, I'm really mad at myself now, I don't. 43 00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:54,160 Speaker 2: I don't think I've ever encountered it on a menu. 44 00:02:55,760 --> 00:02:59,360 Speaker 2: I can't remember ever seeing it in in a grocery store, 45 00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:06,160 Speaker 2: which probably just speaks to the modern lack of popularity 46 00:03:06,520 --> 00:03:07,960 Speaker 2: that we're going to talk about. 47 00:03:08,080 --> 00:03:11,920 Speaker 1: For a lot of this episode. Yes, and also expensiveness. 48 00:03:12,160 --> 00:03:17,679 Speaker 1: Oh sure that's true. Yeah, the price because my grandfather 49 00:03:18,200 --> 00:03:22,120 Speaker 1: had the money to get so, I will say, and 50 00:03:22,160 --> 00:03:27,919 Speaker 1: it's quite expensive. So yeah. I in thinking about this, 51 00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:32,519 Speaker 1: I guess like related topics would be duck. We haven't 52 00:03:32,680 --> 00:03:36,400 Speaker 1: done chicken half I would remember that break my brain. 53 00:03:37,480 --> 00:03:40,040 Speaker 2: I I've been avoiding chicken because I'm like, we're going 54 00:03:40,120 --> 00:03:42,560 Speaker 2: to need to break that up, Like that's that's too much. 55 00:03:42,680 --> 00:03:48,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, we've done like associated like chicken nuggets. Right, we've 56 00:03:48,120 --> 00:03:50,320 Speaker 1: done stuff related, but yeah, that's a. 57 00:03:54,400 --> 00:03:55,520 Speaker 2: Not today chicken. 58 00:03:57,600 --> 00:04:03,520 Speaker 1: Chicken. But squab I must come, yes, which I guess 59 00:04:03,520 --> 00:04:11,240 Speaker 1: brings us to rock question. Squab What is it? Well? 60 00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:16,640 Speaker 2: Squab is the culinary term for pigeon, specifically young pigeon 61 00:04:16,680 --> 00:04:21,200 Speaker 2: harvested before they start flying. It's a dark, rich tasting, 62 00:04:21,279 --> 00:04:24,119 Speaker 2: and slightly gamy kind of meat, sort of like duck 63 00:04:24,240 --> 00:04:27,719 Speaker 2: or goose, but the fact that they're harvested young means 64 00:04:27,760 --> 00:04:30,960 Speaker 2: that they're more tender than those other birds. Squab is 65 00:04:30,960 --> 00:04:33,520 Speaker 2: often broken down into breasts and legs and then grilled 66 00:04:33,960 --> 00:04:36,680 Speaker 2: or roasted to like a rare to medium kind of 67 00:04:36,680 --> 00:04:39,719 Speaker 2: temperature to highlight that tenderness. Though it can also be 68 00:04:39,760 --> 00:04:42,960 Speaker 2: simmered and then deboned, and the meat used in savory 69 00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:46,599 Speaker 2: pies or in stews or what have you. It's like 70 00:04:46,640 --> 00:04:51,239 Speaker 2: a tiny tender duck or like a larger, richer quail. 71 00:04:52,839 --> 00:04:57,200 Speaker 2: It's like if a chicken were all dark meat. Again, 72 00:04:57,480 --> 00:05:00,520 Speaker 2: I haven't had it, but I get the idea that 73 00:05:00,520 --> 00:05:03,520 Speaker 2: it's sort of like a platonic ideal of poultry. 74 00:05:05,440 --> 00:05:10,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, you're kind of describing like the Goldilocks, Like, yeah, 75 00:05:10,400 --> 00:05:12,600 Speaker 1: so it's a good like middle yeah. 76 00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:21,240 Speaker 2: Oh man man, okay, all right. So pigeon. When I 77 00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:24,480 Speaker 2: say pigeon, the idea that you probably have in your 78 00:05:24,520 --> 00:05:27,279 Speaker 2: head of like a like a gray bird with a 79 00:05:27,279 --> 00:05:29,919 Speaker 2: couple darker bands on its wings and a little bit 80 00:05:29,920 --> 00:05:32,719 Speaker 2: of like a greenish or purplish sheen around its throat. 81 00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:35,640 Speaker 2: That is a type of wild bird called a common 82 00:05:35,680 --> 00:05:40,240 Speaker 2: pigeon or rock pigeon or rock dove. A squab comes 83 00:05:40,279 --> 00:05:44,440 Speaker 2: from long domesticated versions of rock pigeons that can have 84 00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:47,800 Speaker 2: a whole range of coloration from snowy white to reddish 85 00:05:47,880 --> 00:05:52,560 Speaker 2: brown to sooty black in all kinds of patterns. If 86 00:05:52,600 --> 00:05:55,039 Speaker 2: you ever see a pigeon that's like speckled or has 87 00:05:55,080 --> 00:05:57,960 Speaker 2: some of that different coloration. That is a feral pigeon 88 00:05:58,279 --> 00:06:02,239 Speaker 2: descended from domesticated ones. At full adult size, a pigeon 89 00:06:02,279 --> 00:06:05,680 Speaker 2: is around fourteen inches long, maybe about twice that in wingspan, 90 00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:09,480 Speaker 2: weighing around a pound. I haven't translated that into metric. 91 00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:13,080 Speaker 2: I'm sorry, I'm not going to right now. And there 92 00:06:13,160 --> 00:06:18,120 Speaker 2: are just a lot of breeds of pigeons. I've read 93 00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:22,640 Speaker 2: numbers estimating from like hundreds to over one thousand. Here's 94 00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:25,480 Speaker 2: a quote that I really wanted to shoehorn in here somewhere. 95 00:06:25,480 --> 00:06:27,719 Speaker 2: It's from a farming manual from nineteen nineteen. 96 00:06:27,880 --> 00:06:28,240 Speaker 1: Okay. 97 00:06:28,760 --> 00:06:32,560 Speaker 2: Of the many breeds and types of fancy pigeons, which 98 00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:37,840 Speaker 2: is a thing, the most popular are the fantail, powder, archangel, magpie, 99 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:42,440 Speaker 2: nun trumpeter, barb, turbot, and frill back. Among the so 100 00:06:42,560 --> 00:06:46,200 Speaker 2: called sporting breeds are the flying homer, the tumbler, the tippler, 101 00:06:46,279 --> 00:06:51,359 Speaker 2: and the roller Runts. Maltese hens, show homers, dragoons, and 102 00:06:51,480 --> 00:06:55,000 Speaker 2: duchies are bred as either fancy or utility stock. 103 00:06:58,760 --> 00:07:01,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm glad you moved warned it in. I'm really 104 00:07:01,120 --> 00:07:07,280 Speaker 1: happy that's such a wide range of like really dramatic, 105 00:07:07,640 --> 00:07:08,880 Speaker 1: really silly names. 106 00:07:10,320 --> 00:07:15,040 Speaker 2: No oh heck, I love it. The archangel what okay? 107 00:07:15,880 --> 00:07:18,720 Speaker 2: But then the powder the powder, and like p O 108 00:07:18,880 --> 00:07:24,480 Speaker 2: does pow t e er pout powder to the archangel Anyway, 109 00:07:25,400 --> 00:07:28,160 Speaker 2: I'm like, I don't know, you're just describing an episode 110 00:07:28,160 --> 00:07:32,239 Speaker 2: of Supernatural. But but here we are. Yeah, about fifty 111 00:07:32,280 --> 00:07:36,560 Speaker 2: breeds of pigeons are used primarily for their meat. And 112 00:07:36,640 --> 00:07:39,400 Speaker 2: I should say here that people can and do hunt 113 00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:43,520 Speaker 2: wild pigeons or eat domesticated adult pigeons as well. They 114 00:07:43,560 --> 00:07:47,200 Speaker 2: will be tougher since they've you know, used their muscles 115 00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:50,560 Speaker 2: for flying and are better stewed. But but yeah, mostly 116 00:07:50,600 --> 00:07:54,640 Speaker 2: today we're talking about the young ones. And yes, squab 117 00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:58,600 Speaker 2: is certainly in the US considered something of like a 118 00:07:58,640 --> 00:08:04,720 Speaker 2: weird delicacy today. Weird because we are most familiar with 119 00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:08,920 Speaker 2: like angry, feral urban pigeons, which do not seem appetizing, 120 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:13,680 Speaker 2: and a delicacy because, as you said earlier, Annie, like 121 00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:16,400 Speaker 2: a single whole squab, which is about a pound in 122 00:08:16,440 --> 00:08:19,600 Speaker 2: total weight to serve one or maybe two people as 123 00:08:19,640 --> 00:08:22,160 Speaker 2: part of a meal, will brun you like twenty to 124 00:08:22,200 --> 00:08:22,840 Speaker 2: thirty bucks. 125 00:08:24,320 --> 00:08:24,840 Speaker 1: Mm hmmm. 126 00:08:27,440 --> 00:08:31,120 Speaker 2: And that cost is partially due to the relative rarity 127 00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:35,920 Speaker 2: of pigeon farming these days, and the relative difficulty of 128 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:40,040 Speaker 2: raising them compared with other poultry, Like you can artificially 129 00:08:40,080 --> 00:08:43,440 Speaker 2: inseminate a turkey or a chicken, but with pigeons you 130 00:08:43,440 --> 00:08:47,319 Speaker 2: pretty much need breeding pears. Pigeons mate for life, they 131 00:08:47,320 --> 00:08:51,840 Speaker 2: form breeding pears, like if one, if one dies, you're 132 00:08:51,880 --> 00:08:54,280 Speaker 2: not going to get any more pigeons out of that pigeon. 133 00:08:54,280 --> 00:08:55,679 Speaker 2: It's never going to remarry. 134 00:08:56,520 --> 00:09:00,520 Speaker 1: Is this where the turtle dove thing comes from? 135 00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:02,840 Speaker 2: I mean, I think I think doves and pigeons are 136 00:09:02,840 --> 00:09:06,160 Speaker 2: all part of the same family. So yeah, I mean 137 00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:08,240 Speaker 2: a lot a lot of birds like that are Yep, 138 00:09:08,280 --> 00:09:11,040 Speaker 2: it's like, nope, that one's my bird. No other birds will. 139 00:09:10,920 --> 00:09:14,760 Speaker 1: Do all the birds will do. 140 00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:20,400 Speaker 2: A pair of pigeons, though, will produce about five to 141 00:09:20,440 --> 00:09:24,160 Speaker 2: twenty chicks a year, and they rear them together, which 142 00:09:24,200 --> 00:09:27,520 Speaker 2: is real sweet. So the parents will take turns incubating 143 00:09:27,520 --> 00:09:31,600 Speaker 2: the eggs for about four weeks, upon which time they hatch. 144 00:09:32,360 --> 00:09:35,120 Speaker 2: They're hatched with their eyes shut and depend on their 145 00:09:35,160 --> 00:09:40,400 Speaker 2: parents regurgitating food to feed them. This is called pigeon milk. 146 00:09:41,920 --> 00:09:49,320 Speaker 1: Oh, it's not bad. I just I wasn't anticipating it. Yeah, 147 00:09:49,400 --> 00:09:50,680 Speaker 1: absorbing this information. 148 00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:53,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, no, no, the phrase pigeon milk is very funny. 149 00:09:53,520 --> 00:09:56,480 Speaker 2: It's okay, yeah, that's I feel I'm right there with you, 150 00:09:56,640 --> 00:09:58,360 Speaker 2: except I got this like three hours ago. 151 00:09:59,080 --> 00:09:59,520 Speaker 1: All right. 152 00:10:00,920 --> 00:10:03,440 Speaker 2: From this point, it takes another like four weeks for 153 00:10:03,520 --> 00:10:06,320 Speaker 2: a pigeon to reach its full size, and just before 154 00:10:06,320 --> 00:10:12,160 Speaker 2: they're ready to leave the nest, they'll be harvested. And yeah, like, 155 00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:16,760 Speaker 2: pigeons want privacy in order to do this, and they're 156 00:10:16,800 --> 00:10:19,040 Speaker 2: like a little bit persnickety about food if they are 157 00:10:19,040 --> 00:10:22,600 Speaker 2: going to produce and feed offspring. Despite what you might 158 00:10:22,679 --> 00:10:26,160 Speaker 2: might have seen urban pigeons eating like pizza crusts or 159 00:10:26,360 --> 00:10:30,440 Speaker 2: cigarette butts or whatever it is, researchers like still have 160 00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:33,959 Speaker 2: not figured out how to produce artificial pigeon milk that 161 00:10:34,080 --> 00:10:38,440 Speaker 2: functions well. It's thought that the parents like impart helpful 162 00:10:38,679 --> 00:10:44,880 Speaker 2: nutrients or antibodies or something during that milk production. So 163 00:10:45,960 --> 00:10:50,800 Speaker 2: you just cannot factory farm pigeons. They're more intensive to 164 00:10:50,880 --> 00:10:54,520 Speaker 2: keep than other birds in these are modern times and 165 00:10:54,640 --> 00:10:59,200 Speaker 2: in the way that we think about meat production being industrialized. 166 00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:03,439 Speaker 2: Uh as a side note about pigeons and cigarette butts, 167 00:11:05,280 --> 00:11:09,920 Speaker 2: this has nothing to do but one of the fun 168 00:11:09,960 --> 00:11:12,000 Speaker 2: things about city birds. Is that they you know, like 169 00:11:12,040 --> 00:11:14,200 Speaker 2: adapt to their environment to use what they have in 170 00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:19,040 Speaker 2: their environment, and they'll often they're not eating the cigarette butts, 171 00:11:19,040 --> 00:11:20,640 Speaker 2: but they will collect them and use them to line 172 00:11:20,679 --> 00:11:24,840 Speaker 2: their nests because they're anti microbial and anti anti like 173 00:11:24,880 --> 00:11:28,400 Speaker 2: anti past Basically, they'll keep away bugs and keep the 174 00:11:28,640 --> 00:11:31,480 Speaker 2: keep the nest cleaner because of tobaccos inherent properties. 175 00:11:32,320 --> 00:11:34,720 Speaker 1: Oh wow, that's really interesting. 176 00:11:34,800 --> 00:11:36,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean the pigeons don't know that, but they 177 00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:36,959 Speaker 2: know that it works. 178 00:11:37,960 --> 00:11:40,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, as we've talked about a lot of stuff on 179 00:11:40,520 --> 00:11:43,280 Speaker 1: here with humans now share we don't know why it works, 180 00:11:43,320 --> 00:11:44,160 Speaker 1: but we know that they. 181 00:11:44,120 --> 00:11:46,280 Speaker 2: Were, Yeah, I put this stinky thing in my nest 182 00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:48,360 Speaker 2: and here it goes. Yeah, in the case of pigeons 183 00:11:48,520 --> 00:11:56,280 Speaker 2: or yeah, we we put the humans put the stinky 184 00:11:56,280 --> 00:11:58,640 Speaker 2: thing in my cheese and then it's in my milk 185 00:11:58,640 --> 00:11:59,320 Speaker 2: and then it's cheese. 186 00:11:59,400 --> 00:11:59,600 Speaker 1: Yeah. 187 00:11:59,640 --> 00:12:06,120 Speaker 2: Sure anyway, Okay, So squab ostensibly a food show. A 188 00:12:06,200 --> 00:12:08,560 Speaker 2: squab is rich in flavor and can stand up to 189 00:12:08,559 --> 00:12:13,320 Speaker 2: to pungent or warm spices. Squabs stums sometimes stuffed before 190 00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:16,080 Speaker 2: it's roasted, as it is small enough to that it's 191 00:12:16,080 --> 00:12:18,080 Speaker 2: more short of like cook through than something like a 192 00:12:18,120 --> 00:12:20,600 Speaker 2: turkey or even a chicken. I've seen a lot of 193 00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:24,080 Speaker 2: recipes that add a sweet or fruity element, like apples 194 00:12:24,240 --> 00:12:27,160 Speaker 2: or grapes, or maybe like a citrus braize or glaze. 195 00:12:27,559 --> 00:12:27,959 Speaker 1: It is a. 196 00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:32,240 Speaker 2: Traditional pie ingredient in Morocco. It's sometimes served slow cooked 197 00:12:32,240 --> 00:12:34,880 Speaker 2: with a crispy skin in China, like like a peeking 198 00:12:34,960 --> 00:12:38,520 Speaker 2: duck kind of situation. Oh my goodness. 199 00:12:39,400 --> 00:12:43,280 Speaker 1: I know the times I had it, it was kind 200 00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:47,840 Speaker 1: of like lightly fried and then covered in like a 201 00:12:47,920 --> 00:12:52,400 Speaker 1: really rich sauce. Yeah, it was really good. It was 202 00:12:52,520 --> 00:12:54,000 Speaker 1: like a lot. It's like, so I would like to 203 00:12:54,080 --> 00:12:59,560 Speaker 1: try I'd like to try this, yeah, fruit preparations. 204 00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:02,800 Speaker 2: I maybe I have seen it on a menu and 205 00:13:02,840 --> 00:13:05,120 Speaker 2: I just haven't ordered it because A it was expensive, 206 00:13:05,160 --> 00:13:07,000 Speaker 2: and B I was like, the scallops are right there. 207 00:13:07,640 --> 00:13:12,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's fair, that's fair. I think the time 208 00:13:12,720 --> 00:13:14,720 Speaker 1: I did order it at New Orleans it was because 209 00:13:14,760 --> 00:13:18,320 Speaker 1: the waiter really sold me on it. Oh, and I 210 00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:20,680 Speaker 1: was like, oh that sounds great, and it was great. 211 00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:22,360 Speaker 1: So I'm not mad about it, but I don't think 212 00:13:22,400 --> 00:13:26,160 Speaker 1: I would have gotten it if he had on your own. Yeah, 213 00:13:26,720 --> 00:13:32,400 Speaker 1: m hm, well what about the nutrition? 214 00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:35,200 Speaker 2: Uh, you know, before you put all kinds of rich 215 00:13:35,240 --> 00:13:38,600 Speaker 2: sauces and stuff on top of it. Squab is really 216 00:13:38,640 --> 00:13:41,960 Speaker 2: tender without being very fatty, so it's a little less 217 00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:47,080 Speaker 2: calorically dense than other birds with similar flavors. You eat 218 00:13:47,080 --> 00:13:47,640 Speaker 2: a vegetable. 219 00:13:48,280 --> 00:13:49,000 Speaker 1: Mmm hmm. 220 00:13:49,080 --> 00:13:55,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, we do have some numbers for you, we do, okay. 221 00:13:57,080 --> 00:14:02,440 Speaker 2: The owner of the largest American pigeon, the Palmetto Pigeon Plant, 222 00:14:02,640 --> 00:14:07,520 Speaker 2: which is out of the Carolinas. He estimates that a 223 00:14:07,640 --> 00:14:11,720 Speaker 2: single chicken factory can process about as many chickens in 224 00:14:11,760 --> 00:14:17,560 Speaker 2: an hour as the entire American pigeon industry does in 225 00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:27,160 Speaker 2: a week. Getting a little bit away from food again, 226 00:14:27,800 --> 00:14:31,640 Speaker 2: there is a National Pigeon Association in the United States. 227 00:14:32,640 --> 00:14:36,080 Speaker 2: They hold a yearly pigeon show called the Grand National 228 00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:40,880 Speaker 2: that shows over two hundred breeds of pigeons and about 229 00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:45,040 Speaker 2: nine thousand individual pigeons may be entered in any given year. 230 00:14:46,360 --> 00:14:53,440 Speaker 1: Nine thousand pigeons, over nine thousand. I don't know what 231 00:14:53,520 --> 00:14:54,640 Speaker 1: to do with this information. 232 00:14:54,880 --> 00:14:57,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, but wait, there's more. 233 00:14:57,920 --> 00:14:58,280 Speaker 1: Okay. 234 00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:04,000 Speaker 2: There's also an American Racing Pigeon Union, which is an 235 00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:07,360 Speaker 2: association of around seven hundred clubs around the country that 236 00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:12,400 Speaker 2: rais and race homing pigeons. They are not the only 237 00:15:12,440 --> 00:15:18,280 Speaker 2: such association. Another one the International Federation of American Homing 238 00:15:18,320 --> 00:15:23,400 Speaker 2: Pigeon Fanciers, Incorporated. They hold a yearly convention around the 239 00:15:23,440 --> 00:15:26,160 Speaker 2: beginning of November. So if you want to go, now's 240 00:15:26,200 --> 00:15:28,000 Speaker 2: the time to book tickets. I think it's in Boston. 241 00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:30,000 Speaker 2: I don't know if it's always in Boston, but this 242 00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:30,480 Speaker 2: year it is. 243 00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:31,560 Speaker 1: Yeah. 244 00:15:31,640 --> 00:15:35,360 Speaker 2: That includes a pigeon race that offers a first prize 245 00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:44,000 Speaker 2: of twenty five thousand dollars. Like, I love everything about this. 246 00:15:44,160 --> 00:15:47,920 Speaker 2: I did. I literally did not know that pigeon fancying 247 00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:52,160 Speaker 2: was still such a popular hobby. 248 00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:57,040 Speaker 1: Oh I didn't either. As I said, I learned a 249 00:15:57,040 --> 00:15:59,800 Speaker 1: lot I was not expecting to learn. 250 00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:04,880 Speaker 2: I could go on about pigeons. Okay, back back on 251 00:16:04,920 --> 00:16:08,880 Speaker 2: the food side. Apparently Spain is fond of hunting pigeons 252 00:16:08,920 --> 00:16:11,880 Speaker 2: and harvests some two million feral pigeons a year. 253 00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:18,560 Speaker 1: Well, China is the largest producer of squab, claiming about 254 00:16:18,560 --> 00:16:23,000 Speaker 1: eighty percent and sometimes soaring yes accidental fun to six 255 00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:25,280 Speaker 1: hundred and eighty million squabs. 256 00:16:25,920 --> 00:16:30,160 Speaker 2: Another source suggested it's even higher, like one point six 257 00:16:30,280 --> 00:16:36,760 Speaker 2: billion squabs a year. A bunch a bunch of squabs. Yeah. 258 00:16:36,800 --> 00:16:40,000 Speaker 2: In contrast, the United States produces about two point five 259 00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:46,720 Speaker 2: million squabs a year, so a little bit of a difference. Yeah, 260 00:16:46,960 --> 00:16:49,720 Speaker 2: and this one isn't a number, but just like a 261 00:16:49,760 --> 00:16:52,160 Speaker 2: cultural note that I wanted to include as a little 262 00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:55,280 Speaker 2: segue sort of thing. All Right, So in nineteen eighty seven, 263 00:16:55,640 --> 00:16:59,240 Speaker 2: the La Times quoted the general manager of this one 264 00:16:59,320 --> 00:17:05,640 Speaker 2: California Bay squab producer. The guy's name is Robert Shipley, 265 00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:09,760 Speaker 2: and Robert Shipley told the La Times squab is the 266 00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:17,600 Speaker 2: cadillac of fowl, the meat of kings. Wow, look at 267 00:17:17,640 --> 00:17:21,280 Speaker 2: you squab, right, the cadillac of fowl. What an amazing 268 00:17:21,359 --> 00:17:22,520 Speaker 2: nineteen eighty seven quote. 269 00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:29,000 Speaker 1: That's so good. That's really good. I like it a lot. Well, 270 00:17:30,359 --> 00:17:33,480 Speaker 1: we've got quite a history for you about how we 271 00:17:33,520 --> 00:17:35,960 Speaker 1: got to where we are now. We do. 272 00:17:36,280 --> 00:17:38,439 Speaker 2: But first we have got a quick break for a 273 00:17:38,440 --> 00:17:39,480 Speaker 2: word from our sponsors. 274 00:17:48,680 --> 00:17:50,680 Speaker 1: They we're back. Thank you sponsor, Yes. 275 00:17:50,560 --> 00:17:55,920 Speaker 2: Thank you. Okay. So birds are a little bit difficult 276 00:17:55,960 --> 00:17:59,720 Speaker 2: to pin down in terms of like geographical origins because 277 00:17:59,840 --> 00:18:03,760 Speaker 2: they get around so well, you know, but it seems 278 00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:08,440 Speaker 2: like pigeons originally came from like Europe down through North Africa, 279 00:18:08,480 --> 00:18:13,520 Speaker 2: and over into Asia. Domestication may have started in Mesopotamia 280 00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:15,440 Speaker 2: some six thousand years. 281 00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:22,280 Speaker 1: Ago, right, and since ancient times Egyptians have domesticated pigeons. 282 00:18:22,320 --> 00:18:25,640 Speaker 1: They ate them, but they also trained them to carry messages, 283 00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:29,080 Speaker 1: which was the practice used up until the twentieth century, 284 00:18:29,119 --> 00:18:32,359 Speaker 1: which I I feel like I knew that, but I 285 00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:36,600 Speaker 1: didn't believe it. And this was a real eye opener. 286 00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:37,399 Speaker 1: Oh yeah for me. 287 00:18:37,720 --> 00:18:42,640 Speaker 2: Huh, yeah, very like like up through the early twentieth century, 288 00:18:42,760 --> 00:18:47,400 Speaker 2: like World War One was very important pigeon messaging. 289 00:18:48,320 --> 00:18:52,440 Speaker 1: Yes, oh my gosh. We'll talk a little bit about 290 00:18:52,440 --> 00:18:55,679 Speaker 1: that in a second. But many, many people like to 291 00:18:55,720 --> 00:19:00,760 Speaker 1: claim that the pigeon was the first domesticated poultry in 292 00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:01,520 Speaker 1: part because of this. 293 00:19:01,760 --> 00:19:04,879 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And you might be thinking, like, wait, I 294 00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:10,159 Speaker 2: thought you said that they're difficult to farm, and that's because, like, 295 00:19:10,840 --> 00:19:14,720 Speaker 2: conversely to our standards for farming today, pigeons were really 296 00:19:14,760 --> 00:19:19,600 Speaker 2: easy to keep around back then because you didn't have 297 00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:22,200 Speaker 2: to have much in the way of feed or environment 298 00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:24,440 Speaker 2: for them if you just set up a comfortable place 299 00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:27,040 Speaker 2: for them to roost, like like their natural environment is 300 00:19:27,080 --> 00:19:29,760 Speaker 2: like rock cliffs with like little kind of kind of 301 00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:33,320 Speaker 2: kind of cubbies that they can nest into. If you 302 00:19:33,320 --> 00:19:35,199 Speaker 2: set up a comfortable place like that for them to 303 00:19:35,280 --> 00:19:38,800 Speaker 2: roost with little cubbies for individual pairs to hang out in, 304 00:19:39,359 --> 00:19:43,760 Speaker 2: wild birds will just come use them, or certainly would 305 00:19:43,800 --> 00:19:46,600 Speaker 2: at that time, and they would go out and forage 306 00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:50,040 Speaker 2: for their own food. So yeah, if you build it, 307 00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:53,600 Speaker 2: they will come. And since squab is harvested before the 308 00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:56,280 Speaker 2: birds start flying, all you have to do is like 309 00:19:56,800 --> 00:19:58,920 Speaker 2: get a ladder, go climb up to a cubby and 310 00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:02,520 Speaker 2: just pluck one out and then you've got free protein. 311 00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:05,240 Speaker 1: M hmmmm. 312 00:20:06,520 --> 00:20:10,439 Speaker 2: These roosting structures are called dovecoats, and they could be 313 00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:14,679 Speaker 2: like simple small things or like huge intricate ones with 314 00:20:14,920 --> 00:20:19,680 Speaker 2: hundreds of little cubbies. As a bonus for building one 315 00:20:19,680 --> 00:20:22,520 Speaker 2: of these things, you get a free source of fertilizer 316 00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:26,880 Speaker 2: for any crops that you want to grow nearby. And yes, 317 00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:30,919 Speaker 2: so as people domesticated pigeons, they selected for different traits, 318 00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:35,399 Speaker 2: you know, homing and therefore for message carrying, as pretty 319 00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:40,880 Speaker 2: pets or religious symbols, for sport like shooting or racing, 320 00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:42,520 Speaker 2: and as food. 321 00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:47,399 Speaker 1: Right and records suggests that people in the Mediterranean to 322 00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:51,440 Speaker 1: North Africa have been eating squab in all sorts of preparation, 323 00:20:52,520 --> 00:20:56,480 Speaker 1: cooked over a fire, served with rice, incased in pastry 324 00:20:56,480 --> 00:20:59,080 Speaker 1: as a pie for a long time, and I really 325 00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:00,240 Speaker 1: want that pie one. 326 00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:04,720 Speaker 2: Like, yes, I read a really good recipe. I'll see 327 00:21:04,720 --> 00:21:09,240 Speaker 2: if I can remember to share it anyway, Okay. Dovecoats 328 00:21:09,280 --> 00:21:11,680 Speaker 2: may have spread with the Roman Empire throughout much of 329 00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:16,440 Speaker 2: the rest of Europe, and these structures and pigeons too, 330 00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:19,280 Speaker 2: I guess, only became more prized when in the fifteen 331 00:21:19,359 --> 00:21:23,640 Speaker 2: hundreds chemists figured out that they could extract saltpeter from 332 00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:29,359 Speaker 2: pigeon droppings, saltpeter being potassium nitrate being a component of gunpowder. 333 00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:31,080 Speaker 1: Oh wow. 334 00:21:31,160 --> 00:21:35,320 Speaker 2: They wound up having to like post guards outside of dovecoats, 335 00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:40,600 Speaker 2: not because they were worried about people stealing the squab 336 00:21:41,119 --> 00:21:43,239 Speaker 2: or the doves, but they were like, stay away from 337 00:21:43,280 --> 00:21:47,200 Speaker 2: our pigeon poop. We need that for our guns. 338 00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:53,879 Speaker 1: Which is very funny given like today, right, yes, yes, 339 00:21:55,920 --> 00:21:58,480 Speaker 1: and kind of speaking of because there has been a 340 00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:03,040 Speaker 1: huge cultural shift, at least in the US about pigeons 341 00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:07,000 Speaker 1: and squab, But they were at one time really really revered, 342 00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:13,360 Speaker 1: like appreciated, and to that end throughout history, many famous 343 00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:18,240 Speaker 1: folks have expressed an affinity for squab or others in 344 00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:23,520 Speaker 1: the pigeon dov family, which as you said, is quite large. 345 00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:27,879 Speaker 1: So for instance, Pablo Picasso frequently depicted them, and he 346 00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:32,640 Speaker 1: named his daughter Paloma, the Spanish word for dove, and Nikola. 347 00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:36,119 Speaker 1: Tesla found a lot of companionship and solace in pigeons, 348 00:22:36,280 --> 00:22:39,359 Speaker 1: and after one of his favorite pigeons flew into the 349 00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:43,200 Speaker 1: window and eventually died, he allegedly said in nineteen twenty two, 350 00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:46,480 Speaker 1: I loved that pigeon as a man loves a woman, 351 00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:48,159 Speaker 1: and she loved me. 352 00:22:50,119 --> 00:22:53,679 Speaker 2: Yeah, very intense. I mean, Tesla was a pretty intense 353 00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:57,760 Speaker 2: person in general, but the pigeon intensity is definitely one 354 00:22:57,760 --> 00:22:58,960 Speaker 2: of my favorite things. 355 00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:09,680 Speaker 1: Yes, pigeon intensity. And back to passenger pigeons. So yeah, 356 00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:12,480 Speaker 1: as I said, they were in use for far longer 357 00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:15,879 Speaker 1: than I realized, even during World War One when a 358 00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:20,119 Speaker 1: pigeon named cher Ami, who was shot and blinded during flight, 359 00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:24,520 Speaker 1: still managed to deliver a life saving message. Sharami was 360 00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:28,560 Speaker 1: awarded a French military honor, the Crois de Guerre, and 361 00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:31,000 Speaker 1: her body is in the Smithsonian. 362 00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:35,960 Speaker 2: Yeah she was a taxider maid, and yeah, she's actually 363 00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:38,880 Speaker 2: a lot of pigeons were given military honors by various 364 00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:42,399 Speaker 2: countries in World War One. There's like lists on the 365 00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:43,639 Speaker 2: internet you can find. 366 00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:50,720 Speaker 1: The last of the wild passenger pigeons, Martha died in 367 00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:53,640 Speaker 1: the Cincinnati Zoo in nineteen fourteen. Like there's a whole 368 00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:57,960 Speaker 1: plaque you can read that they posted. They once were 369 00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:00,680 Speaker 1: so common in North America that a group of them, 370 00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:05,160 Speaker 1: which I read is called a kit could block the sun. 371 00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:11,440 Speaker 1: That over harvesting, over hunting, and deforestation killed them off. 372 00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:15,159 Speaker 1: Some estimates suggest that they were anywhere from three to 373 00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:22,400 Speaker 1: five million passenger pigeons in North America when the Europeans arrived. So, yeah, 374 00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:28,879 Speaker 1: there have been various attempts to combat that obviously didn't 375 00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:33,480 Speaker 1: really work out. The Michigan legislature, for instance, proposed a 376 00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:38,200 Speaker 1: ten year closed season on passenger pigeon on passenger pigeons, 377 00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:39,359 Speaker 1: but yeah. 378 00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:40,840 Speaker 2: It was clearly it didn't work out. 379 00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:47,640 Speaker 1: Yep, yep. So one of the reasons that we've been 380 00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:51,040 Speaker 1: kind of dancing around that squab fell out of fashion 381 00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:56,440 Speaker 1: in the United States is because of returning World War 382 00:24:56,480 --> 00:25:02,200 Speaker 1: Two soldiers, because they'd come familiar with the dirty city 383 00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:04,399 Speaker 1: pigeons that I think, as you said, a lot of 384 00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:07,000 Speaker 1: us associate with us like the thing that we think of, 385 00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:12,160 Speaker 1: and started equating that with squab, like I don't want 386 00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:12,600 Speaker 1: to eat I. 387 00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:15,920 Speaker 2: Saw this, teach I don't want to eat any of those. 388 00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:18,119 Speaker 2: That's gross. Yeah, sure, right. 389 00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:23,640 Speaker 1: And also there was another replacement already in the wings, 390 00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:29,440 Speaker 1: another bed pump for me, factory farmed chicken was coming 391 00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:30,720 Speaker 1: up right around this time. 392 00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:34,760 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, chickens could be grown bigger and in more 393 00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:39,240 Speaker 2: cramped quarters than pigeons could. Research had begun after World 394 00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:44,440 Speaker 2: War One and developed these really fast growing, meaty chickens 395 00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:47,680 Speaker 2: like like broilers by about the nineteen fifties, and so 396 00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:52,120 Speaker 2: it just really dovetailed. Oh my goodness, we're really we're 397 00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:53,480 Speaker 2: really on a roll today. 398 00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:57,240 Speaker 1: Heck, not necessarily a good one. No, can't be stopped. 399 00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:02,959 Speaker 1: And yeah, like the nineteen sixties, the price of pigeon 400 00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:07,000 Speaker 1: meat had plummeted as the outcry calling for pest control 401 00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:08,720 Speaker 1: of pigeons grew. 402 00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:13,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, and there are all of these pop culture references 403 00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:17,520 Speaker 2: that you that you can connect to this phenomenon. For example, 404 00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:22,040 Speaker 2: in nineteen sixty four, the Mary Poppins film really honed 405 00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:25,880 Speaker 2: in on the pigeon lady or bird woman character as 406 00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:30,159 Speaker 2: unfortunate and sympathetic. You know, she's the one who's who's 407 00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:33,680 Speaker 2: out in the square selling crumbs or bird seed for 408 00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:36,720 Speaker 2: teppence a bag to feed to the birds, And she 409 00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:40,359 Speaker 2: and the birds are dirty and considered pests by like 410 00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:45,080 Speaker 2: polite society. Certainly in the film The Pigeon Lady, and 411 00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:49,280 Speaker 2: like the simple pleasure of feeding the pigeons represent like 412 00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:53,880 Speaker 2: the entire class struggle and moral struggle of like business 413 00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:59,800 Speaker 2: versus family, and how how do you make human connections 414 00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:07,720 Speaker 2: in industrialized city and like propriety versus decency. Yeah, I 415 00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:10,160 Speaker 2: will say the character goes back to the first book, 416 00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:12,920 Speaker 2: which was published in the nineteen thirties, and the concept 417 00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:16,119 Speaker 2: of selling bird feed in city squares goes back like 418 00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:20,720 Speaker 2: at least a century before that I've read. But I 419 00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:25,640 Speaker 2: just find that this particular image being produced at this time, 420 00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:32,560 Speaker 2: the nineteen sixties, when squab was disappearing from plates, it's 421 00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:33,760 Speaker 2: really striking. 422 00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:40,960 Speaker 1: Echoed in the nineteen ninety three film Home Alone two. 423 00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:47,120 Speaker 2: Oh yes, absolutely, but the fitcheons saved the day, they do, 424 00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:56,359 Speaker 2: you know. In the nineteen seventies, Bert on Sesame Street 425 00:27:56,760 --> 00:27:59,439 Speaker 2: was portrayed as being like a really quirky Urban Night, 426 00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:03,959 Speaker 2: for how having a pet pigeon, Bernice, who was portrayed 427 00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:08,800 Speaker 2: by real pigeons. He has, Bert has a whole pigeon 428 00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:12,520 Speaker 2: dance and song and dance that he explains through song 429 00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:17,560 Speaker 2: with the pigeon dances, and I as an adult, I'm like, 430 00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:19,800 Speaker 2: were they talking about Tesla a little bit? Like was 431 00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:23,040 Speaker 2: this a specific like Tesla reference? I'm not sure. Anyway, 432 00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:27,560 Speaker 2: by nineteen eighty you had whatdy y Allen referring to 433 00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:33,200 Speaker 2: them as rats with wings. Going into the nineties, even 434 00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:39,800 Speaker 2: you had the okay on uh on animaniacs. There was 435 00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:46,520 Speaker 2: a segment called good Feathers, which was parodying Good Fellas 436 00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:51,200 Speaker 2: the movie film, and it was like the three main 437 00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:54,280 Speaker 2: characters like a Joe Peshio, Robert de Niro, and a 438 00:28:54,640 --> 00:29:05,200 Speaker 2: Raleiota being that they were pigeons and yeah, mm hmm, anyway. 439 00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:12,600 Speaker 1: I love it. Yeah, yeah. But the interesting thing is, 440 00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:17,440 Speaker 1: so we had all of this going on with in 441 00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:23,120 Speaker 1: the United States, but meanwhile a lot of places, especially 442 00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:28,360 Speaker 1: in Asia and in Europe, we're really still love squab, 443 00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:35,440 Speaker 1: We're still into it. And in that strange way of globalization, 444 00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:41,400 Speaker 1: people from Hong Kong who were coming to the US 445 00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:46,040 Speaker 1: in the eighties bought their love for rose squab with them, 446 00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:51,200 Speaker 1: so it sort of started to get I hesitate to 447 00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:54,160 Speaker 1: say reintroduced, but it was like kind of yeah, here's 448 00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:57,680 Speaker 1: an here's a new well, a new way to eat 449 00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:01,040 Speaker 1: it for a lot of Americans who were like, oh, 450 00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:07,680 Speaker 1: I had thought of it as all of these right, yeah, 451 00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:13,200 Speaker 1: but yeah, yeah, and then celebrity chefs like Julia Child 452 00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:17,160 Speaker 1: and Emerald helped repopularize squab in the US. I heard 453 00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:21,360 Speaker 1: it called something like the TV effect. Shar at least 454 00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:25,480 Speaker 1: somewhat because it still is you know, it's still kind 455 00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:27,000 Speaker 1: of niche. It's still kind of niche. 456 00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:30,960 Speaker 2: Oh, absolutely, yeah, I think that right. I'd say that 457 00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:33,360 Speaker 2: there's probably a number of you listening right now that 458 00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:39,480 Speaker 2: are like, white people eat pigeons, right, and there's yeah, 459 00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:42,920 Speaker 2: no shade, Like that's just if you have not heard 460 00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:46,360 Speaker 2: about that being done then yeah. And again like if 461 00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:49,760 Speaker 2: you have this this very specific connotation of a rat 462 00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:52,000 Speaker 2: with wings, then it's like why would I be eating that? 463 00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:57,120 Speaker 1: Right? And I think that's a fascinating conversation that we've 464 00:30:57,160 --> 00:31:00,240 Speaker 1: had a couple of times on here. But even just 465 00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:06,680 Speaker 1: the words you use, people have these connotations, these expectations 466 00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:09,560 Speaker 1: for them, and so I feel like for some people, 467 00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:12,640 Speaker 1: if you go to a fancy French restaurant is probably 468 00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:15,120 Speaker 1: what happened to me when the Wader was like this, 469 00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:19,520 Speaker 1: I didn't know it was pigeon. He didn't ever say that, 470 00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:25,120 Speaker 1: and you know, but so I'm like, Okay, if it 471 00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:27,479 Speaker 1: had been pigeon, I think I might have hesitated. And 472 00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:30,560 Speaker 1: that's just like human psychology. There's a lot of problems 473 00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:34,080 Speaker 1: with that. But like it is fascinating to me this 474 00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:36,960 Speaker 1: sort of because I believe in French like they never 475 00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:40,600 Speaker 1: in France, they never really gave it, not gave it up, 476 00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:43,120 Speaker 1: but like they always have just eaten it. 477 00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:45,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like, oh no, that's delicious. Why wouldn't we 478 00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:50,600 Speaker 2: eat that? Clearly? 479 00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:57,560 Speaker 1: Right? Another thing to add to the list, Lauren. 480 00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:02,040 Speaker 2: Oh my goodness. Oh yeah, I'm going like okay, yeah, 481 00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:04,480 Speaker 2: Like I need to like call all of French restaurants 482 00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:06,200 Speaker 2: in town and be like, do you have squab right now? 483 00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:07,840 Speaker 2: What's going on? 484 00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:10,400 Speaker 1: I think we're going to have to hire a chef 485 00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:18,240 Speaker 1: for this very elaborate, huge savor party that we're gonna 486 00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:24,560 Speaker 1: because I don't trust myself to cook squab personally. But uh, 487 00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:27,160 Speaker 1: you know, maybe I'll be like my grandfather and just. 488 00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:31,720 Speaker 2: I've read that it's relatively simple, that it's really just yeah, 489 00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:34,080 Speaker 2: just like, don't ever cook it basically like. 490 00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:38,000 Speaker 1: M I might have to borrow someone else's oven, then 491 00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:47,640 Speaker 1: my oven's not. It's a temperamental beast. But speaking, you 492 00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:50,040 Speaker 1: have listeners, if you have any recipes, as always, any 493 00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:52,120 Speaker 1: thoughts about this, as always, we would love to hear 494 00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:55,120 Speaker 1: from you. But yeah, that's what we have to say 495 00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:56,160 Speaker 1: about squad for now. 496 00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:57,000 Speaker 2: It is. 497 00:32:57,240 --> 00:32:57,360 Speaker 1: Uh. 498 00:32:57,480 --> 00:32:59,520 Speaker 2: We do already have some listener mail for you, though, 499 00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:00,800 Speaker 2: and we are going to get into that as soon 500 00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:02,360 Speaker 2: as we get back from one more quick break for 501 00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:12,440 Speaker 2: a word from our sponsors, and we're back. 502 00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:15,320 Speaker 1: Thank you sponsors, Yes, thank you, and we're back with 503 00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:24,800 Speaker 1: this snow duck hunt. 504 00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:25,400 Speaker 2: Duck Hunt. 505 00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:27,200 Speaker 1: Did you play duck Hunt? 506 00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:32,880 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, Oh I was a sharpshooter. Yeah. 507 00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:34,920 Speaker 1: I was really bad at it, but I enjoyed it. 508 00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:45,400 Speaker 1: So Sheldon wrote about our recent interview we did in 509 00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:50,560 Speaker 1: Las Vegas about Masa. Oh yeah, so yesterday I cooked 510 00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:53,560 Speaker 1: the dried corn with lime and left it overnight to 511 00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:56,200 Speaker 1: next to maalize. My plan was to wake up early 512 00:33:56,320 --> 00:33:58,560 Speaker 1: and while my wife was still sleeping, I would grind 513 00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:01,960 Speaker 1: the next maalized corn to Masa while listening to podcast. 514 00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:04,840 Speaker 1: The plan was to make a batch of tamale's today. 515 00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:08,440 Speaker 1: What the heck I'm making masa and your show about 516 00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:12,680 Speaker 1: Masa comes on. When that happened, when I was brewing 517 00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:15,280 Speaker 1: a bock beer, I thought it was some kind of karma. 518 00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:20,040 Speaker 1: Now it's getting creepy. I'm absolutely convinced that you guys 519 00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:23,120 Speaker 1: are spying on me and what I'm doing. And if 520 00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:25,600 Speaker 1: you're out there hiding in the bushes, come in and 521 00:34:25,680 --> 00:34:29,400 Speaker 1: have some tamalas. I made more than my wife and 522 00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:33,719 Speaker 1: I could eat. Look, if we were spying on you, 523 00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:36,279 Speaker 1: we would have been in there. At heart, I would 524 00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:36,799 Speaker 1: have been in there. 525 00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:40,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, like like we would yeah, like we would just 526 00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:43,040 Speaker 2: be like kind of covered in shrubbery bits, but like 527 00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:46,040 Speaker 2: knocking on your door being like, hey, we hear that 528 00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:47,000 Speaker 2: you have tamalay's. 529 00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:47,879 Speaker 1: Is that God? 530 00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:48,719 Speaker 2: Can we have some? 531 00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:49,239 Speaker 1: Yeah? 532 00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:53,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, Tomal's for us, we can have. Yeah, that would be. 533 00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:59,120 Speaker 1: Yes. I Oh my gosh, Illo Tamalays and Sheldon sent 534 00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:09,959 Speaker 1: pictures amazing. I'm almost mad that we weren't spying on you. Honestly, yes, yes, 535 00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:18,480 Speaker 1: well so yeah, we'll try to be less psychic. I 536 00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:19,959 Speaker 1: can't promise anything, but we'll try. 537 00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:25,800 Speaker 2: Christine wrote, I'm back to listening to sabers Back catalog 538 00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:29,120 Speaker 2: and I really enjoyed the whole Hawaii series. I particularly 539 00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:31,759 Speaker 2: enjoyed hearing about poke. We're starting to get it here 540 00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:35,000 Speaker 2: in Australia, but it looks more like the appropriated version. 541 00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:37,279 Speaker 2: There are even some places that serve it with fried 542 00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:40,640 Speaker 2: chicken strips, but that is not why I'm writing. We 543 00:35:40,719 --> 00:35:43,479 Speaker 2: get the geo targeted ads here in Australia, and one 544 00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:46,520 Speaker 2: came on during your episode on sustainability that made me 545 00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:48,839 Speaker 2: shake my head at the irony a bar. In mind 546 00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:51,320 Speaker 2: that we are in winter in Australia, though you wouldn't 547 00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:54,120 Speaker 2: know it from the daytime temperatures, and this means that 548 00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:57,920 Speaker 2: we don't have access to Australian grown stone fruit. But 549 00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:00,480 Speaker 2: as this ad was proud to tell me, I can 550 00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:03,759 Speaker 2: still get fresh stone fruits sourced from the US. A 551 00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:06,719 Speaker 2: single piece of fruit costs more than a kilo will 552 00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:09,320 Speaker 2: in summer, but if you want your fresh stone fruit, 553 00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:13,319 Speaker 2: you can have it. This is so disturbing in a 554 00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:17,279 Speaker 2: number of ways. First, it seems better to make a 555 00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:20,799 Speaker 2: profit transporting fresh fruit across the largest ocean we have, 556 00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:23,560 Speaker 2: rather than sell it cheaply in the US to shelters 557 00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:27,760 Speaker 2: or food banks, or even gasp, give it away. The second, 558 00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:30,880 Speaker 2: the carbon footprint required to transport that fruit so it 559 00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:32,640 Speaker 2: doesn't spoil is staggering. 560 00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:34,560 Speaker 1: Third, it just. 561 00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:37,480 Speaker 2: Doesn't taste as good having been hauled across the world 562 00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:41,759 Speaker 2: in cold storage. Food mileage is a sustainability issue a 563 00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:44,400 Speaker 2: lot of people don't think about enough. It was quite 564 00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:46,719 Speaker 2: heartening to hear of the Hawaiian efforts to make their 565 00:36:46,719 --> 00:36:49,400 Speaker 2: food supply more self sufficient while value adding to the 566 00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:52,560 Speaker 2: raw product. It's something every country should think about, especially 567 00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:55,799 Speaker 2: when considering whether it's really necessary to transport stone fruit 568 00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:59,960 Speaker 2: from California to Australia in August. Sometimes there's no che 569 00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:02,680 Speaker 2: but to pay the transport costs to get food to people, 570 00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:06,120 Speaker 2: but I really don't think that includes foods we Australians 571 00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:09,400 Speaker 2: will be able to buy locally at better quality and 572 00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:12,960 Speaker 2: cheaper in just a few months. I guess the demand 573 00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:16,279 Speaker 2: must be there, otherwise the transport wouldn't happen. So it's 574 00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:19,520 Speaker 2: important to think about seasonality and food origins when buying 575 00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:22,759 Speaker 2: our food. In Australia sellers are required to label fresh 576 00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:26,200 Speaker 2: produce with the origin. So Australians, next time you're at 577 00:37:26,239 --> 00:37:29,759 Speaker 2: the supermarket and see the slightly leathery peaches costing five 578 00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:32,520 Speaker 2: dollars each, ask yourself if you really need to buy 579 00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:35,279 Speaker 2: that fresh peach or if it's better to buy the 580 00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:38,520 Speaker 2: local apples or mandarins. And if you live somewhere where 581 00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:41,759 Speaker 2: origin labels aren't required, maybe you should start pressuring your 582 00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:44,800 Speaker 2: government to make it mandatory. It definitely helps make sustainable 583 00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:47,719 Speaker 2: shopping easier. Oh good points all. 584 00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:54,920 Speaker 1: Absolutely, yeah, yeah, that's one thing I really love in 585 00:37:55,040 --> 00:37:57,800 Speaker 1: stores when they all label like not only where it 586 00:37:57,840 --> 00:38:01,200 Speaker 1: came from, but like when I've been to some stores 587 00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:03,399 Speaker 1: where they'll have like when you come in, like what's 588 00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:07,200 Speaker 1: in season? Yeah yeah, And there is a part of 589 00:38:07,239 --> 00:38:10,880 Speaker 1: me like I totally get it could be whatever season. 590 00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:13,480 Speaker 1: I just want a tomato. But I also kind of 591 00:38:13,560 --> 00:38:17,799 Speaker 1: loved the idea of I can't wait for tomato seasons, right, 592 00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:19,920 Speaker 1: you know what it is, like that kind of special 593 00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:21,400 Speaker 1: like oh here it comes. 594 00:38:21,520 --> 00:38:24,960 Speaker 2: Oh absolutely, yeah. I get really really really excited about 595 00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:28,600 Speaker 2: seasonal produce and so like, especially when you're in that 596 00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:31,680 Speaker 2: the beautiful boom of summer, which we're in the middle 597 00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:34,880 Speaker 2: of right now, and you're getting like fresh Georgia peaches 598 00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:40,239 Speaker 2: locally and those good fresh tomatoes and fresh corn and 599 00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:42,200 Speaker 2: like all of that stuff, and it's just like, oh 600 00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:45,960 Speaker 2: what a what a heck and bounty you know, I 601 00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:47,880 Speaker 2: mean at the same time, right, like sometimes it is 602 00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:49,000 Speaker 2: December and. 603 00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:52,000 Speaker 1: It's cold ish. 604 00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:58,080 Speaker 2: Uh thanks thanks thanks global warming, but uh and right, 605 00:38:58,160 --> 00:39:00,640 Speaker 2: and you're like, I just want I don't know, man, 606 00:39:00,760 --> 00:39:04,280 Speaker 2: like I want something bright in summary and the canned 607 00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:06,440 Speaker 2: the canned version just isn't really going to do it 608 00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:08,520 Speaker 2: for you. And so even though you know it's kind 609 00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:15,080 Speaker 2: of an inferior product, but yeah, no, we're we're amazingly 610 00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:22,000 Speaker 2: spoiled about things being in season all the time because 611 00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:26,480 Speaker 2: of shipping, and it's it's something I don't know, Like 612 00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:28,880 Speaker 2: I recently took a field trip up to some of 613 00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:33,319 Speaker 2: the international supermarkets. I've been the Beauford Highway range here 614 00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:38,480 Speaker 2: in Atlanta, if you've ever been around there, and like 615 00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:40,839 Speaker 2: like I kind of like treat myself like, Okay, I 616 00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:44,840 Speaker 2: know that this came from Paraguay, but you know, like 617 00:39:45,200 --> 00:39:48,040 Speaker 2: I can't I literally can't get this kind of plantain 618 00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:48,680 Speaker 2: from America. 619 00:39:48,760 --> 00:39:49,600 Speaker 1: Because it doesn't. 620 00:39:49,360 --> 00:39:53,000 Speaker 2: Grow here, so so I will make the choice to 621 00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:54,719 Speaker 2: support that product because. 622 00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:55,000 Speaker 1: I want it. 623 00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:02,200 Speaker 2: Yeah. But right, but like other if you're just talking 624 00:40:02,239 --> 00:40:04,319 Speaker 2: about apples, like come on, like that doesn't need to 625 00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:08,200 Speaker 2: come from South America, right, I. 626 00:40:08,120 --> 00:40:14,919 Speaker 1: Think it's like the awareness of it and keeping in mind, yeah, 627 00:40:15,160 --> 00:40:17,520 Speaker 1: like paying so much for this thing that's not going 628 00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:22,600 Speaker 1: to be great yeah and had a huge footprint. Ah. 629 00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:28,799 Speaker 1: So I think there are yeah, I think there are exceptions. 630 00:40:28,840 --> 00:40:33,360 Speaker 1: But generally if you just buy yeah, what's in season, 631 00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:38,680 Speaker 1: what's around which for you know, not every place can 632 00:40:38,719 --> 00:40:44,960 Speaker 1: do that. Oh oh absolutely, yeah, I know, like places 633 00:40:44,960 --> 00:40:49,879 Speaker 1: like Australia or Hawaii where you're an island, there's other 634 00:40:49,880 --> 00:40:51,360 Speaker 1: considerationship to takeet mine. 635 00:40:51,719 --> 00:40:54,879 Speaker 2: Oh sure. Or you know if you're in Scandinavia and 636 00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:58,319 Speaker 2: it's like, well we have berries and salted fish and 637 00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:00,520 Speaker 2: those are the things that we have, so if we 638 00:41:00,520 --> 00:41:04,680 Speaker 2: would like something else, then we are going to import it. Right, No, 639 00:41:04,680 --> 00:41:06,480 Speaker 2: no shade on berries or salted fish. 640 00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:09,040 Speaker 1: No as products both. 641 00:41:10,080 --> 00:41:12,680 Speaker 2: But but right, like you know, like sometimes you want 642 00:41:12,680 --> 00:41:14,560 Speaker 2: something different and that's understandable too. 643 00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:19,440 Speaker 1: It is it is indeed these are the things we 644 00:41:19,520 --> 00:41:25,200 Speaker 1: must wait. Uh but uh, thank you so much as 645 00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:28,520 Speaker 1: always to both of these listeners for writing in. Oh yeah, 646 00:41:28,600 --> 00:41:30,920 Speaker 1: if you would like to write to us, you can. 647 00:41:31,680 --> 00:41:34,840 Speaker 1: Our email is Hello at savorpod dot com. 648 00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:37,319 Speaker 2: We are also on social media. You can find us 649 00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:40,360 Speaker 2: on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram at saber pod and we 650 00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:42,879 Speaker 2: do hope to hear from you. Apologies, by the way 651 00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:51,200 Speaker 2: for some of my terrible mispronunciations. Heck uh in that 652 00:41:51,320 --> 00:41:55,359 Speaker 2: Masa interview. Oh geez, I'm doing great anyway. Uh yeah, 653 00:41:55,560 --> 00:41:57,759 Speaker 2: it's it was we were we were rolling live Here 654 00:41:57,800 --> 00:42:03,200 Speaker 2: we go. Uh. Savor is a production of iHeartRadio four 655 00:42:03,239 --> 00:42:05,360 Speaker 2: more podcasts from my Heart Radio. You can visit the 656 00:42:05,360 --> 00:42:08,759 Speaker 2: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your 657 00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:11,800 Speaker 2: favorite shows. Thanks as always to our super producers Dylan 658 00:42:11,840 --> 00:42:14,480 Speaker 2: Fagan and Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening, and 659 00:42:14,520 --> 00:42:24,240 Speaker 2: we hope that lots more good things are coming your way.