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Speaker 1: Hi, everybody. Welcome to Packers Unscripted from Packers dot Com.

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Speaker 1: I am Mike Spofford, joined alongside West, Hodkowitz and Larry McCarron.

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Speaker 1: We are on location at the NFL Scouting Combine in

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Speaker 1: downtown Indianapolis, and guys, I want to start today's show

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Speaker 1: talking about the offensive line. We heard from Brian Gudacunst

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Speaker 1: earlier in the week. He actually said when he got

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Speaker 1: through the pre combined meetings with the rest of his

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Speaker 1: scouting staff, this offensive line crop started to look a

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Speaker 1: little deeper than maybe he thought, a little stronger than

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Speaker 1: maybe he thought going in. And when you look at

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Speaker 1: the Packers situation, you have a starting open, an open

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Speaker 1: starting spot right now at Guard. You have a veteran

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Speaker 1: right tackles heading into the last year of his contract,

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Speaker 1: acting Brian Bulaga. So there's a lot for the Packers

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Speaker 1: to keep an eye on and a lot of these

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Speaker 1: top offensive tackles that are being talked about here. Some

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Speaker 1: of the discussion is will they move inside to guard

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Speaker 1: in the NFL? Do they have the versatility to do that?

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Speaker 1: Packers have had some success doing that over the years.

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Speaker 1: West tell us about that history. Well, the only thing

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Speaker 1: you can go off of right now. Brian Godkins is

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Speaker 1: one draft is as far as him in the GM seat.

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Speaker 1: And last year that was Cole Madison, who was a

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Speaker 1: four years starter at right tackle, and he was gonna

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Speaker 1: look like he was gonna be moving to guard in

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Speaker 1: Green Bay, and obviously situations beyond their control happened. He's

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Speaker 1: not here, but I think that's still the baseline for

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Speaker 1: what they're looking for here. You think of guys like

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Speaker 1: t J Laying back in two thousand nine, Josh Sitting

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Speaker 1: and what he did at Central Florida, moving inside, They've

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Speaker 1: had a lot of success with those prototypes because a

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Speaker 1: lot of times, especially at some of those smaller schools

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Speaker 1: that aren't the power of fives, the best offensive lineman

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Speaker 1: is playing tackle, So so that's where you' given the

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Speaker 1: opportunity to move inside. A lot of it comes down

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Speaker 1: to arm reach, a lot of it comes down to

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Speaker 1: how they feel that those guys will potentially fit in.

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Speaker 1: But I think when you look back over the last

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Speaker 1: ten fifteen years, it's one of the positions that packers

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Speaker 1: have had a lot of success, whether it's keeping a

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Speaker 1: guy outside like David box tr or moving someone inside

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Speaker 1: to see if you can, you know, potentially give a

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Speaker 1: contribution there. Yeah, and some of the names that are

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Speaker 1: being talked about here at the top of that offensive

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Speaker 1: tackle draft board you have Dalton Riisner from Kansas State,

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Speaker 1: Cody Ford from Oklahoma, Jonah Williams from Alabama, Greg Little

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Speaker 1: from Mississippi, Andre Dillard from Washington State. Now, the discussion

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Speaker 1: about moving these guys to guard, it's it's a different

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Speaker 1: reason for everybody. With Williams at Alabama, it's the arm

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Speaker 1: length thing that you talked about. West Reisinger from Kansas State,

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Speaker 1: he actually has the versatility in his background. He was

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Speaker 1: a freshman All America center for the Wildcats in Manhattan,

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Speaker 1: Kansas before moving outside. Larry, I want to get your perspective.

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Speaker 1: I know you played center, but what what goes Yeah, alright,

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Speaker 1: but what what goes into a guy switching positions going

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Speaker 1: from tackle to guard, whether it be at the college

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Speaker 1: level or the transition from college to pro as like

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Speaker 1: so many things, to a large extent, it depends on

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Speaker 1: the guy. Now, longer people you mentioned arm ling, but

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Speaker 1: people cut longer generally function better outside. It's just that

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Speaker 1: type of game inside. The shorter guys kind of excel

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Speaker 1: it's more of a leverage game and so forth. But

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Speaker 1: the longer guys more apt to to find their niche

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Speaker 1: on the outside. But it depends so much on a

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Speaker 1: guy's adaptability. Can a guy going from playing out of

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Speaker 1: tackle in college, Okay, you've got a little space to

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Speaker 1: work with now, so does the defender. But you have

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Speaker 1: a little space to work with on the edge. Now

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Speaker 1: you go inside and everything is like this. So it's

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Speaker 1: kind of a different mindset, different approach, and you've got

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Speaker 1: to be able to adapt and have that kind of versatility.

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Speaker 1: And so much, as I mentioned at the start, it

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Speaker 1: depends on the guy, and and so much in today's

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Speaker 1: game depends on the versatility. If you are not a starter.

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Speaker 1: Now the guys you talked about when teams picked them,

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Speaker 1: they're talking about getting a starter. Sometimes it works, sometimes

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Speaker 1: it doesn't. But if you are not a starter, you

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Speaker 1: almost have to on game day be able to play

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Speaker 1: more than one position. You see the Packers do it

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Speaker 1: all time, you know, when it comes to the active list,

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Speaker 1: if they can shave a spot in the offensive line

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Speaker 1: down a bit or two, you know, and have a

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Speaker 1: swing center guard guy and a swing tackle play both

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Speaker 1: sides or even better yet, like the Packers have enjoyed

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Speaker 1: a number of times over the past few years where

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Speaker 1: they can have a guy play both garden tackle. When

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Speaker 1: you have that kind of versatility, it eliminates the numbers

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Speaker 1: of roster spots on game day you have to dedicate

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Speaker 1: to the offensive line. Yeah, and we've seen with the

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Speaker 1: Packers you mentioned laying and sitting with those guys did

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Speaker 1: play a few times that tackle in their NFL careers.

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Speaker 1: We saw JC tread Are playing at center. He kicked

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Speaker 1: out to play offensive tackle in a playoff game for

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Speaker 1: the Packers a few years ago. So that type of

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Speaker 1: versatility is valuable. And I think some of these offensive

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Speaker 1: linemen who we heard from at the podium yesterday there

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Speaker 1: on the field at Lucas Oil Stadium, going through their

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Speaker 1: workouts today as we're taping this, the more they can

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Speaker 1: show that they can do and and perhaps the more

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Speaker 1: open they are now. Some of these guys they're a

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Speaker 1: little reluctant to talk about changing because a they've done

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Speaker 1: something really well their whole careers to this point. But

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Speaker 1: also be tackles usually get paid more than guards, so

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Speaker 1: they want to. They want to when they get to

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Speaker 1: that second contract, they want to be playing tackle. But

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Speaker 1: that being said, they can improve their draft stock by

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Speaker 1: showing the willingness and the ability to move around well.

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Speaker 1: One of the things I love too, I mentioned David

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Speaker 1: box Tr. You go back to now six years ago

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Speaker 1: when David box Tyr was here, so many people are saying,

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Speaker 1: this guy's a guard, maybe even a center, and he

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Speaker 1: turns out to be one of the best left tackles.

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Speaker 1: People perfectly, but isn't a second, okay, fourth rounder. I

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Speaker 1: don't give I don't give a dark okay first one

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Speaker 1: on once he's out there on the hot corner that's

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Speaker 1: left tackle for the uninitiated. He's out on the hot corner,

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Speaker 1: he's going against Clay Matthews, Clay Matthews in his prime,

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Speaker 1: and he stones Clay Matthews. I'm saying, I don't know

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Speaker 1: where do kids from. I don't care what they say

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Speaker 1: about him. He is a tackle. And you're going back

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Speaker 1: about the tackle garth thing. Tackles, they get paid more money,

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Speaker 1: they're harder to find, okay, and especially on the left side.

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Speaker 1: So like that, that always plays into it. And of

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Speaker 1: course you know people you know, like they went up

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Speaker 1: the guys if they've been playing tackle. They're thinking, well,

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Speaker 1: that's the most important position, that's a highly most highly

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Speaker 1: paid position. But you know, I don't know. I just

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Speaker 1: had to jump in when it's true. I don't know

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Speaker 1: who said that. They did not watch practice one. It's

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Speaker 1: incredible being able to project that because, as you were saying,

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Speaker 1: sometimes you just don't know until you actually see these

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Speaker 1: guys out there. It depends on the guy, depends on

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Speaker 1: what he's gonna be able to do the next level.

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Speaker 1: And a guy like bak tr he might have only

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Speaker 1: weighed in two pounds here, but the chip on his

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Speaker 1: shoulder added another twenty five. And the fact that he

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Speaker 1: was able to come in and have the contribution he

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Speaker 1: did with this team and become the franchise left tackle

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Speaker 1: that he has, I think it just gives you another

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Speaker 1: another example of how the Packers have been able to

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Speaker 1: find those type of players in the fourth and fifth

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Speaker 1: round when a lot of teams, if you go back

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Speaker 1: to that thirteen draft, they spent really big high draft

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Speaker 1: capital to get a left tackle and didn't even end

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Speaker 1: up with one in the long run. Yeah, And the

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Speaker 1: point being, with these supposed faults in these guys games

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Speaker 1: that they're talking about that might force them to move

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Speaker 1: inside to guard. It doesn't mean they're not going to

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Speaker 1: succeed at tackle in the NFL. This is where these guys.

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Speaker 1: Every single thing about their build up, their makeup, and

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Speaker 1: everything is is scrutinized to the nth degree. That's just

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Speaker 1: part of what goes on here. But as far as

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Speaker 1: day one, as you guys mentioned, you have to be

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Speaker 1: able to do it all. David back tr was a

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Speaker 1: right tackle in that scrimmage back in two thousand and

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Speaker 1: thirteen before Brian balogators a c L. He ends up

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Speaker 1: moving into left tackle and starting ever since. You never

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Speaker 1: know until you finally see it. Yeah. Well, another position

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Speaker 1: that we heard from as far as the prospects meeting

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Speaker 1: the media were the running backs, and one young running

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Speaker 1: back in particular, fullback alec Ingold West. He's a Green

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Speaker 1: Bay native of Bayport High School graduate. You covered in school,

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Speaker 1: high school career an unbiased opinion, several alumni, but young

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Speaker 1: Ingold went from Bayport to the University of Wisconsin. Now

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Speaker 1: he is here. He's actually the only fullback who was

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Speaker 1: invited to the scouting combine. You talked to him yesterday. West,

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Speaker 1: why don't you fill us in on his story. So

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Speaker 1: here's what's fun about this. This This is one of the

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Speaker 1: last guys that I covered in high school when I

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Speaker 1: was over at my previous job with the Green Bay

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Speaker 1: Press Gazette. And one of the big reasons coming out

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Speaker 1: of high school he wanted to play quarterback. He was

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Speaker 1: going to go to Northern Illinois. He wanted to play

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Speaker 1: skill position. He wanted to play something that he could

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Speaker 1: potentially have a future and as far as the NFL.

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Speaker 1: Then Paul Chris goes back to Wisconsin recruits him to

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Speaker 1: Wisconsin as an athlete. He's gonna play linebacker now, right, Okay,

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Speaker 1: good future in the NFL. After one week a scout

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Speaker 1: team practice that he had going into the Alabama game,

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Speaker 1: Chris pulls him aside. He goes, how would you feel

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Speaker 1: about playing running back? More specifically fullback? Not exactly the

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Speaker 1: position you think about when you're thinking of NFL. But

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Speaker 1: he told him very simply, you this could be a

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Speaker 1: job for you. And as it turned out, I mean,

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Speaker 1: obviously he had to work his way up that depth chart,

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Speaker 1: but to be in this position now twenty one touchdowns

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Speaker 1: in four years at Wisconsin. His dad even told him

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Speaker 1: when he committed don't be surprised if you don't score

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Speaker 1: a touchdown again and now and now yeah exactly, so, uh,

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Speaker 1: trying to become the second kid from Ayport to make

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Speaker 1: it first since Dan Benning. Uh. And it's it's an

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Speaker 1: intriguing thing to watch because for the Green Bay area

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Speaker 1: it doesn't always happen. As far as the metro area

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Speaker 1: is concerned. The last Green Bay High school graduate that

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Speaker 1: was invited to the combine was Mike Taylor in two

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Speaker 1: thousand thirteen. So it's been a bit well, and you

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Speaker 1: mentioned Dan Benning from Bayport. Just to tell everyone how

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Speaker 1: small a world it is. I covered Dan Benning during

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Speaker 1: his high school career. Alec Ingold was a state wrestling champion.

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Speaker 1: Dan Benning was a state finalist at heavyweight in Division one.

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Speaker 1: He went on to play for the Badges and then

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Speaker 1: was drafted by the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. Had a very

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Speaker 1: nice NFL career in his jerseys are hanging at Bayport

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Speaker 1: High School. So, but getting back to the fullback spot

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Speaker 1: here for the Packers, Danny Vitality was a player who

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Speaker 1: was brought on to the roster last year. We heard

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Speaker 1: from Matt Lafleur earlier this week, and when you look

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Speaker 1: at what what he did running the offense in Tennessee,

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Speaker 1: it sounds like Matt Lafleur would like to have a fullback,

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Speaker 1: but Larry. He also emphasized that that fullback has to

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Speaker 1: be the right guy to do what he wants to

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Speaker 1: do in his offense. Not unlike what we're talking about earlier.

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Speaker 1: It depends on the guy and whether a team uses

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Speaker 1: and employees a fullback to what degree they're willing to

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Speaker 1: do that. It goes back to what's that fullback? Like,

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Speaker 1: what is he bringing to the party? Danny vitality In

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Speaker 1: the short time he's been in Green Bay, that young

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Speaker 1: fellow has some popnas block now when you were in

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Speaker 1: the good old fashioned lead play and going in buddle

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Speaker 1: line acker right in the mouth. He can do that.

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Speaker 1: And there's something he doesn't just go up to the man.

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Speaker 1: He goes through him, and you'd really like to see that.

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Speaker 1: And uh, he's so he's got some pop in his

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Speaker 1: box and seemed to be okay in the other areas.

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Speaker 1: Don't know a bunch about it as far as carrying

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Speaker 1: the ball and receiving skills and so forth. But he's

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Speaker 1: an interesting player that they brought in. He did catch

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Speaker 1: a lot of passes at Northwestern in his college career,

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Speaker 1: racked up a lot of catches and receiving yards. That's

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Speaker 1: something he hasn't done much yet in the NFL, But

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Speaker 1: we'll see what happens. And but getting back to the

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Speaker 1: overall full back position, like I think guys playing it

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Speaker 1: can almost force their way on the field if they

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Speaker 1: bring the right tool set with him. Hey, can we

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Speaker 1: count on this guy to be a receiver on third down?

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Speaker 1: Good guy picking up the blitz dependable that way? Is

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Speaker 1: he a good short area, short yardage goal line type runner?

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Speaker 1: Is he one of those guys? Can he play special team? So? Well?

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Speaker 1: You know, a roster spot. Mean, I can remember not

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Speaker 1: too long for the packer of the two fullbacks, right,

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Speaker 1: So it's very dependent on what those fullbacks are as

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Speaker 1: football players. Yeah. And for some reason, and maybe you

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Speaker 1: can give us some insight into this, Larry. Fullbacks in

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Speaker 1: Green Bay seemed to become the fan favorites and cult heroes,

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Speaker 1: whether you're talking about William Henderson or John Coon, Aaron Ripkowski.

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Speaker 1: What is it about that position that the fans always

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Speaker 1: seemed to gravitate. Oh, I think that's he's blue collar. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean Green Bay people, Wisconsin people. They appreciate the

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Speaker 1: good old fashioned, blue collar, try hard guy, the guy

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Speaker 1: that's gonna stick his nose in there and fight to

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Speaker 1: the finish weekend and week out. I mean, that's that's Wisconsin.

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Speaker 1: And I think that's why fullbacks are always very very

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Speaker 1: popular players in Green Bay and beyond. And I want

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Speaker 1: to throw this into because they did try to go

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Speaker 1: the h back road at the beginning of last season

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Speaker 1: in Lance kendricks I thought filled that role amicably. They

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Speaker 1: tried it with Mercedes Lewis, but there's also something about

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Speaker 1: a guy that's just in that six foot range, much

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Speaker 1: like Alec gold Is, much like Danny vitalia Is, that

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Speaker 1: just allows them, as far as their pad level, to

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Speaker 1: be able to get up under blockers a little bit better.

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Speaker 1: It just seemed like, even though they did try that

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Speaker 1: the first half of last season, it wasn't in their wheelhouse.

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Speaker 1: It just wasn't what they're running games about. Yeah, and Wes,

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Speaker 1: you also looked up in your story on Ingold how

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Speaker 1: the snaps for fullbacks in the NFL. It's starting to Uh,

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Speaker 1: there's there's an interesting trend here that's developing. But you

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Speaker 1: wonder if with the success that a team like the

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Speaker 1: New England Patriots have had with with James Devlin, if

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Speaker 1: it's going to start to swing back the other way

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Speaker 1: in terms of maybe the fullback isn't exactly going away

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Speaker 1: in this league. There were only two fullbacks in the

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Speaker 1: NFL last year that had over two offensive snaps. It

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Speaker 1: doesn't happen much, but Devlon was one of them. In

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Speaker 1: three of the last four teams in the part you know,

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Speaker 1: the playoffs trying to make that run of Super Bowl

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Speaker 1: did have a fullback on their roster. And there was

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Speaker 1: a really good quote, I believe it was from Kyle Shannahan.

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Speaker 1: If it wasn't, excuse me, but just saying that if

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Speaker 1: you know, you look at that game that's Super Bowl,

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Speaker 1: if they had a fullback, if if the Rams would

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Speaker 1: have had somebody to sort of have a change up there,

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Speaker 1: maybe the Patriots would have been able to exert their

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Speaker 1: will the way they did. Actually it was Matt Lafleur

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Speaker 1: who said that, and I think that's that's a really

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Speaker 1: salient point, the fact that if you have somebody like

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Speaker 1: that can make them make an adjustment, it can go

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Speaker 1: a long way. With what you want to do with

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Speaker 1: your offensive game plan, I can certainly change things up. Well,

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Speaker 1: one other thing to keep in mind here, guys, as

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Speaker 1: we wrap up today's show. I know all the media

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Speaker 1: is here, anybody who's anybody in the NFL is here

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Speaker 1: in Indianapolis this week. But it's important and Larry had

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Speaker 1: pointed this out on one of our three things videos

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Speaker 1: we did when we first got to town here, and

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Speaker 1: that is that you have to have the right perspective

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Speaker 1: on this event. It is one piece of the puzzle,

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Speaker 1: so to speak, in a long process of scouting these players,

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Speaker 1: which goes back to the scouts going to the campuses

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Speaker 1: and watching them practice and going to their games and

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Speaker 1: going over all the film and interviewing their coaches. Then

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Speaker 1: they come here and yes they get they get to

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Speaker 1: interview them, they get all the medical checks and all

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Speaker 1: of those kinds of things. But uh, this is just

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Speaker 1: one piece of the pie. So for all the media

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Speaker 1: talk in the media hype about certain guys and how

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Speaker 1: they work out and everything like that, don't get too

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Speaker 1: caught up in it. You know, there's three and some

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Speaker 1: guys that end up coming here every year. But as

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Speaker 1: you pointed out from day one. I mean, you look

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Speaker 1: at a guy like Philip Lindsley last year ends up

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Speaker 1: becoming a Pro bowler as an undrafted free agent, undrafted rookie.

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Speaker 1: Those stories are out there, and you can do forty

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Speaker 1: times in vertical jumps until you're blue in the face,

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Speaker 1: But the fact of the matter is it's about what

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Speaker 1: you can do on the football field. Arry, I don't

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Speaker 1: know about you, but I'm guessing it was your forty

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Speaker 1: time that made you a two time Pro bowler. I mean,

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Speaker 1: that's just the way this game is played. It's the

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Speaker 1: type of things that I think that you can't always measure.

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Speaker 1: So there is some of that to keep in mind.

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Speaker 1: Keep in mind what Brian Gudkin said the other day.

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Speaker 1: Tape the Guy's tape, there's number one know if ands

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Speaker 1: or bucks about it tape, there's number one how they played. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and we heard from We've heard from Ted Thompson over

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Speaker 1: the years as well. He always talked about how you

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Speaker 1: come back from the combine and the draft board starts

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Speaker 1: to shift around a little bit, that they go back

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Speaker 1: and look at the tape like Larry's talking about, and

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Speaker 1: then the draft board kind of shifts back to the

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Speaker 1: to the way it was before, because that's really the

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Speaker 1: best thing you have to go on with these players.

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Speaker 1: This is a supplement to the evaluation. But what really

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Speaker 1: matters is what they did on the field and what's

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Speaker 1: on video. I mean, look at a guy like Tyler

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Speaker 1: Lancaster last year right now, I understand. I think he

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Speaker 1: had thirty five bench reps at his prote I mean,

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Speaker 1: he's a country strong kid. I mean, he's just that

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Speaker 1: type of player. But I just think, you know, there's

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Speaker 1: guys that don't get those invites that you know, catch

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Speaker 1: and I end up becoming players in this league. It

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Speaker 1: happens every single year. That job for Goodkins, the job

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Speaker 1: for his scouts right now is figuring out that balance,

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Speaker 1: figuring out the Gyre Alexanders that are gonna jump out

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Speaker 1: on film and the Marquis Baldes scant links and also

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Speaker 1: finding those Tyler Lancasters that are kind of hidden in

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Speaker 1: the rough as well. Yeah, no question about it. Well,

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Speaker 1: with that, we're going to call it a wrap on

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Speaker 1: this edition of Packers Unscripted from the NFL Scouting Combine.

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Speaker 1: A special thanks to Larry McCarn for joining us for

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Speaker 1: a couple of episodes. West and I will have one

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Speaker 1: more episode here over the weekend, probably posting on Monday

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Speaker 1: on the website here from Indianapolis. With that, thanks for

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Speaker 1: tuning in everybody, and we will see you next time.

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Speaker 1: H