WEBVTT - Businessweek Extra- Wondery COO Jen Sargent

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<v Speaker 1>This is Bloomberg Business Week from Bloomberg Radio. I'm Jason

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<v Speaker 1>Kelly and I'm Carol Master. Welcome to the Bloomberg Business

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<v Speaker 1>Week Extra. It's our weekly podcast, bring you an in

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<v Speaker 1>depth conversation every word that you won't hear anywhere else

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<v Speaker 1>podcast on podcast this week Carol Wondering chief operating officer,

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<v Speaker 1>Jenn Sergeant. We went deep with her, not just about

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<v Speaker 1>the content that wonder He's producing, but the business model

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<v Speaker 1>and maybe more importantly, the data and what she is learning,

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<v Speaker 1>what Wondering is learning about their customer. And we should

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<v Speaker 1>say uh right at the top, and we've alluded to

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<v Speaker 1>this that we do have a business relationship with Wondering

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<v Speaker 1>in part because one of the best friends that we

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<v Speaker 1>have at this show, Joe No Sarah, he was on

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<v Speaker 1>our air earlier. He of course hosted The Shrink next Door,

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<v Speaker 1>the Runaway Hit. I believe it's fair to say of

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<v Speaker 1>twenty nineteen. So we there's your disclaimer. Jen. Really nice

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<v Speaker 1>to have you with us. Thank you, Jason, thank you,

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<v Speaker 1>Carol Um. I'm pleased to be here, so tell us

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<v Speaker 1>about the podcast podcast business right here. In July, I

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<v Speaker 1>listened to a ton of podcasts I'm are always saying

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<v Speaker 1>to Carol, like, you gotta listen this, you gotta listen

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<v Speaker 1>to this. I drive for insane on that. But it

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<v Speaker 1>does feel like podcasts are having a bit of a

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<v Speaker 1>moment here in the pandemic. What's going on? Yeah, I

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<v Speaker 1>say more than a moment. I mean this has been

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<v Speaker 1>a movement for for years now, with UM technology making

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<v Speaker 1>it easier for consumers to access great content and that

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<v Speaker 1>being combined with so much amazing podcast content coming into

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<v Speaker 1>the market. But what we've seen during the pandemic is

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<v Speaker 1>actually people really leaning into listening to podcast And I

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<v Speaker 1>think as we've all been social distancing and changing our

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<v Speaker 1>habits and spending more time at home, UH, consumers have

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<v Speaker 1>found all these different ways to be listening to podcast,

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<v Speaker 1>whether it's cooking or gardening, or walking the dog, UM

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<v Speaker 1>or just cleaning around the house. Podcast are a great

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<v Speaker 1>piece of kind of media to take with you on

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<v Speaker 1>the go and and really be able to kind of

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<v Speaker 1>multitask something else around your house. And as a result, UM,

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<v Speaker 1>we we've really seen UM some some great list in

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<v Speaker 1>listening UM recently, and we've also seen shifts in behavior

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<v Speaker 1>where you know, prior to the pandemic, it was all

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<v Speaker 1>about commuting and your time at the gym, and and

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<v Speaker 1>those were two of the big use cases for for podcasts.

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<v Speaker 1>But now we see listening throughout the day and on

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<v Speaker 1>the weekends and and just um, you know, we can

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<v Speaker 1>see consumers really um listening in a different way. And

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<v Speaker 1>I have a lot of series of of why that's

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<v Speaker 1>happening right now. But UM, it's been a really positive

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<v Speaker 1>time for podcasts. I'll also say that, you know, just

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<v Speaker 1>on the production side of things, UM, we've been able

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<v Speaker 1>to keep producing podcasts during the pandemic. And I think

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<v Speaker 1>you know, UM, I mean, I don't know about YouTube,

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<v Speaker 1>but I've kind of caught up on my Netflix and

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<v Speaker 1>my Hulu and and and with TV production on hold

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<v Speaker 1>right now, UM, it's this source of new content. So

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<v Speaker 1>uh for wandery but but all the podcasting UM publishers

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<v Speaker 1>out there, most of us have been able to adapt

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<v Speaker 1>and to really um keep keep things moving with new content.

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<v Speaker 1>We've seen interest from talent who would otherwise be busy

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<v Speaker 1>with TV production getting involved in podcasts. So for the

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<v Speaker 1>whole ecosystem, I think we've we've seen a great list.

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<v Speaker 1>That's so funny that you said that because just before

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<v Speaker 1>just it was like, you gotta watch this because and

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<v Speaker 1>I said, you know, I've been running out of things

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<v Speaker 1>to watch. What's interesting is I'm curious you said that

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<v Speaker 1>kind of the trends are change changing. It's not just

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<v Speaker 1>people commuting obviously anymore, but they're listening at all different times.

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<v Speaker 1>What are people listening to? Jen? Yeah, so, UM, well,

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<v Speaker 1>especially when the stay at home where orders first happened,

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<v Speaker 1>we saw a lot of people UM listening to news, UM,

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<v Speaker 1>listening to UM, to a current information UM. But then

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<v Speaker 1>we also it's all that balanced with UM comedy and

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<v Speaker 1>entertainment and things that would give people kind of a

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<v Speaker 1>break in an escape UM, which is not surprising. UM.

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<v Speaker 1>Now we're seeing that that pretty much all categories are

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<v Speaker 1>you know, receiving a lot of listenership at this point,

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<v Speaker 1>but but definitely at the start of the pandemic it

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<v Speaker 1>was news, entertainment and and personal growth is the other

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<v Speaker 1>diner category self help personal growth. So you know, it's interesting,

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<v Speaker 1>Jen Um. I was thinking about you guys in terms

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<v Speaker 1>of the type of content you create, and I'm almost

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<v Speaker 1>thinking to some extent it feels like a little bit

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<v Speaker 1>like a Disney approach where content can ultimately have multiple

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<v Speaker 1>revenue streams online, podcast streaming, etcetera. And I do wonder

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<v Speaker 1>how you approach it. How do you look at when

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<v Speaker 1>you're you know, thinking about either acquiring or producing some content,

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<v Speaker 1>are you thinking about, Okay, how can we spread this

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<v Speaker 1>out as much as possible? Yes, and that has absolutely

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<v Speaker 1>been evolving as as we've grown. Um. You know, we're

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<v Speaker 1>known for our immersive, character driven storytelling. We really try

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<v Speaker 1>to put you the listener, in the middle of the

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<v Speaker 1>story and get you completely you know, enveloped in it. UM.

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<v Speaker 1>And we we think about it now as um more

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<v Speaker 1>than just a podcast. We really think about developing a

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<v Speaker 1>story that then can take on a life of its own. UM.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, our our broader goal is really to be

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<v Speaker 1>the first place consumers think of when they think of

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<v Speaker 1>high quality, immersive storytelling. And today that happens to be

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<v Speaker 1>with podcasts. But we know in the future it is

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<v Speaker 1>very likely that a consumer could encounter us first as

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<v Speaker 1>a TV show or a book, um, and then make

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<v Speaker 1>their way back to the podcast UM. And so UM.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, as we think about different revenue streams, I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>advertising is certainly our bread and butter, and was one

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<v Speaker 1>of the earliest UM, you know, revenue streams to emerge

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<v Speaker 1>for us and everyone else in podcasting. UM. But as

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<v Speaker 1>we started to create hits like The Next Door, like

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<v Speaker 1>Dr Death, UM, we saw this opportunity to develop the

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<v Speaker 1>I P into television shows. And at this point, sixteen

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<v Speaker 1>of our projects are in various stages of TV development. UM.

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<v Speaker 1>We have one of our projects UM that is on

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<v Speaker 1>its way to becoming a book. UM. And and this

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<v Speaker 1>licensing side of it is is not just real but

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<v Speaker 1>to your Disney analogy, I mean I I think we

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<v Speaker 1>absolutely see it expanding that way. So when we green

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<v Speaker 1>light stories now we think, oh, could this be a

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<v Speaker 1>TV show? Could? I mean we certainly didn't. Um. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>when we were working with joannas Sarah first right next Door,

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<v Speaker 1>we weren't thinking, oh, this would be so perfect for

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<v Speaker 1>Paul Rudd and Harold but you're doing it. But but

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<v Speaker 1>after the fact, yeah, it totally makes sense. It makes

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of sense when you think if you've listened

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<v Speaker 1>to The Street Next Story and you're like, yep, that

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<v Speaker 1>absolutely checks out. I can see that on the screen absolutely.

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<v Speaker 1>So talk to us about the subscription model, because I

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<v Speaker 1>feel like that's something that a lot of podcast publishers

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<v Speaker 1>have been wrestling with and you know, we've seen the

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<v Speaker 1>Spotify model, we've seen Luminary, We've seen others sort of

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<v Speaker 1>go for this Stitcher I believe as well as a

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<v Speaker 1>premium product. Tell us about the conversations to sort of

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<v Speaker 1>get one dree to that point and how you think

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<v Speaker 1>about it. Yeah, I mean, part of our motivation UM

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<v Speaker 1>was really that our listeners were asking for an app.

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<v Speaker 1>They were asking for a better way, an easier way

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<v Speaker 1>to access wondering shows and content, to be able to

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<v Speaker 1>binge content, especially mini series, to be able to listen

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<v Speaker 1>to add three and UM particular to our style of storytelling,

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<v Speaker 1>we do a lot of serialized mini series and serialized

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<v Speaker 1>always on shows and UM for many of our shows

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<v Speaker 1>like a Business Wars or or Tides of History, UM, etcetera,

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<v Speaker 1>that were we have dozens of seasons at this point,

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<v Speaker 1>and your average podcast app doesn't allow you to navigate

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<v Speaker 1>elegantly between seasons. And so even just tracking down the

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<v Speaker 1>season of Business Wars that you want to listen to

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<v Speaker 1>is it's hard in a general market app. And when

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<v Speaker 1>we looked around at the market, we felt like that's

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<v Speaker 1>that's what that's what was out there. I mean, Stitcher, Luminary, Apple,

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<v Speaker 1>They're all great apps, but their general market one size

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<v Speaker 1>fits all apps, and we really wanted to create a

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<v Speaker 1>curated experience. We wanted it to be on brand, we

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<v Speaker 1>wanted it to feel immersive and premium like our our

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<v Speaker 1>shows do, and we really just wanted to super serve

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<v Speaker 1>that that wandering listener. UM. That was a big part

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<v Speaker 1>of it. UM. The other piece of it, which is

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<v Speaker 1>you know, was a challenge for us, and I think

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<v Speaker 1>it's a challenge for for most publishers out there. Is

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<v Speaker 1>that we we but but by by distributing our content

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<v Speaker 1>through these third parties, we missed that direct connection with

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<v Speaker 1>the listener and we don't get data back that really

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<v Speaker 1>helps us. And without the data, we're kind of flying

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<v Speaker 1>blind when we're when we're making the next piece of

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<v Speaker 1>content or we're trying to market it. So having some

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<v Speaker 1>first party data that UM that we can use to

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<v Speaker 1>inform our marketing and content decisions is really game changing. UM.

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<v Speaker 1>So that was another part of it for us. UM

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<v Speaker 1>As we thought about creating creating an app like this,

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<v Speaker 1>is it only going to be? And I don't mean only,

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<v Speaker 1>but I mean will it be exclusively wondering content or

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<v Speaker 1>will you open it up to others that kind of

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<v Speaker 1>fit within the wondering world. Yeah, so it will be

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<v Speaker 1>both wondering content and wondering partner content. But we're not

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<v Speaker 1>an aggregator. We're not trying to be the Netflix of podcasts,

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<v Speaker 1>and it won't be everything under the sun. It will

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<v Speaker 1>only be podcasts where we have a partnership, whether we've

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<v Speaker 1>partnered with Bloomberg or or someone like UM like uh,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, all Things Comedy or The Athletic, whoever we're

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<v Speaker 1>partnering with that might be within the app, and then

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<v Speaker 1>all of our wondering originals. And we felt like now

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<v Speaker 1>was the time to do this because we had the

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<v Speaker 1>breast and depth of content. We have a beloved catalog,

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<v Speaker 1>we have these big hits UM we had enough UM

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<v Speaker 1>brand equity and listeners to tap into UM to be

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<v Speaker 1>able to launch this type of app. Now, Jen only

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<v Speaker 1>about a minute or so ago. What was something that

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<v Speaker 1>you thought, you know, this may be okay and then

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<v Speaker 1>it just caught fire. Was there was there a specific

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<v Speaker 1>either type of content or a specific piece of content

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<v Speaker 1>that really surprised you on the upside um? You know,

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<v Speaker 1>one that I was recently surprised about was Blood Ties.

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<v Speaker 1>So we had Blood Ties as an audio drama that

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<v Speaker 1>we launched right before the holidays um this past year.

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<v Speaker 1>And we had dabbled in audio drama when Wadrey first launched,

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<v Speaker 1>and for whatever reason, the market wasn't mature enough, maybe

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<v Speaker 1>there wasn't enough demand, but you know, they did okay,

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<v Speaker 1>but we weren't really able to get a blockbuster hit

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<v Speaker 1>out of out of the fiction side of things, and

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<v Speaker 1>Blood Ties was a game changer. It completely um surpassed

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<v Speaker 1>our expectations. We were able to get some great talent

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<v Speaker 1>um Uh Gillian, Jacob, Josh gad Um to voice some

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<v Speaker 1>of the main characters. But it gave us this confidence

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<v Speaker 1>that podcasting is mature enough to support fiction and and

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<v Speaker 1>audio drama, and that opens up a whole new world.

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<v Speaker 1>So we're actually launching Blood Tigh season two this week

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<v Speaker 1>um By you know, it's kind of backed by popular demand,

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<v Speaker 1>and we're now putting a lot more audio drama into productions.

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<v Speaker 1>So that was one that we've been just very pleasantly

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<v Speaker 1>supported with. That was wondering Chief Operating Officer Jen, Sergeant Jason,

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<v Speaker 1>this is an important time for them they launched their

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<v Speaker 1>app last month. They are definitely tapping into people who

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<v Speaker 1>want to listen to new material right because productions have

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<v Speaker 1>been shut down. People aren't making movies, they're not making

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<v Speaker 1>new streaming content, and so folks are looking to podcasts

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<v Speaker 1>to listen to new things. It's a golden age to

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<v Speaker 1>some extent. I loved that you and she joked about

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<v Speaker 1>the fact that you had watched everything on Netflix, even

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<v Speaker 1>listening to Bloomberg Business Week Extra. We started doing into

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<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Business Week Radio live Monday through Friday at two

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<v Speaker 1>pm Lall Street Time. I'm Blue Broke Radio, I'm Carol Massar,

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<v Speaker 1>and I'm Jason Kelly. This is Bloomberg