Speaker 1: Welcome to All the Smoke, a production of The Black
Speaker 1: Effect and our Heart Radio and partnership with Showtime. Welcome
Speaker 1: back Man, season two of All the Smoke. We got
Speaker 1: a real special guests. What's up with your brodeach with
Speaker 1: the virtual headshake. I'm gonna tell you something that I
Speaker 1: never told you back. I want to smoke. Welcome back
Speaker 1: to another edition All the Smoke. Jack, what's going on
Speaker 1: out there in Atlanta? Man? It's freezing man, hey and
Speaker 1: like and like we said earlier, it would be funny
Speaker 1: the first it's snow everywhere. It's nice out here now
Speaker 1: not nice. It's in the mid sixties out here in
Speaker 1: l A. I can't complain. We got a really special guest.
Speaker 1: We appreciate you taking time. We know you're on the
Speaker 1: road right now. Let's welcome to the show, Doc Rivers.
Speaker 1: What's up? How are you going on the season? The road?
Speaker 1: You know, it is what it is. So we were
Speaker 1: just talking before we gone on, and I think it
Speaker 1: would be interesting for our viewers to hear that too,
Speaker 1: because obviously, you know, when Jack and I played in
Speaker 1: your whole entire career, you know, the road is kind
Speaker 1: of a chance where you get away from home. You
Speaker 1: can go to some new restaurants, you can get out
Speaker 1: and check out a new city. It's completely opposite that. Now.
Speaker 1: It almost seems like you guys are on complete lockdown.
Speaker 1: And sometimes actually you guys are the only people in
Speaker 1: the hotel. Talk to us a little bit about what
Speaker 1: that experience is like. Yeah, in most cases, you're the
Speaker 1: only person in the entire hotel. They they wish you
Speaker 1: into the back door. You're going through service elevators. Uh,
Speaker 1: It's it's really strange. I would say still I would
Speaker 1: take it over the bubble. Um. But you know, because
Speaker 1: you are playing in the actual arenas, so you feel
Speaker 1: like you're on a road trip. The biggest difference is
Speaker 1: you just never leave the hotel. Uh, you know, for me,
Speaker 1: like coaches, you literally you get your room. You don't
Speaker 1: leave the room. You know, you may go down and
Speaker 1: grab a bite with the fellas. Other than that, you're
Speaker 1: in your room. So it is definitely different. Um. But again,
Speaker 1: if you ask me which one I take, I take
Speaker 1: the way we're doing it now, then over the bubble
Speaker 1: I'm sure everyone else feels that way too. Well, let's
Speaker 1: get to it fresh start in Philly. How how has
Speaker 1: that been. I saw you go there. As soon as
Speaker 1: you signed there was just like Doc is one of
Speaker 1: the best motivators I've ever played for, And to me
Speaker 1: from the outside looking in, it seemed like that was
Speaker 1: all those stars needed with someone to you know, make
Speaker 1: them feel comfortable on who they are and being the
Speaker 1: best them And we're seeing that particularly at a Joembi
Speaker 1: who's playing at all m v P and obviously All
Speaker 1: Star caliber this year. Yeah. Yeah, it was interesting. Uh
Speaker 1: when when I first I wasn't sure what I was
Speaker 1: gonna do. I was gonna take I was gonna do
Speaker 1: what you guys are doing now, you know, take a
Speaker 1: year off and you know, just relax a little bit.
Speaker 1: You know, guys, this is one straight years. I haven't
Speaker 1: had it off year ever, you know, right. Uh. And
Speaker 1: so I thought about it for for about twenty minutes
Speaker 1: and uh and then the Philly job. It's just so
Speaker 1: interesting to me because of of Ben and Joel uh
Speaker 1: and new Tobias was there and I had coached him, uh,
Speaker 1: and I thought I could get to him as well. Uh.
Speaker 1: So you know, this this group, it's just it just
Speaker 1: needed a change like culture. Um, and that just it
Speaker 1: wasn't as much as on the floor, and it was
Speaker 1: some of that we have to change, just the culture
Speaker 1: all around uh, on the floor, in the office, uh,
Speaker 1: in our development everything. And you know, they allowed me
Speaker 1: to come in and do that. Elton to start it
Speaker 1: was the main guy, and didn't we bring in Darryll.
Speaker 1: So just having that group behind me and allowing me
Speaker 1: to do the things that I need to do that
Speaker 1: I think helps us win. Was was was big, been amazing, UM.
Speaker 1: And then we have to get our guys, our players
Speaker 1: to understand what what winning actually looks like, you know,
Speaker 1: and I think, uh, you guys have played long enough,
Speaker 1: you know, you know the game. Like I think there's
Speaker 1: a lot of great players, but I don't think all
Speaker 1: of them understand what winning actually is and what it
Speaker 1: looks like, what it takes. It's hard to win, you know,
Speaker 1: you don't luck up. There's no lucky champions um. There
Speaker 1: never will be UM. And so you gotta do all
Speaker 1: the preparation uh and put in all the time and
Speaker 1: then go through the you know, I hate using the
Speaker 1: word the process because it's there for a minute, you know,
Speaker 1: but you know, we jokingly told our guys preparation process
Speaker 1: and then the parade but you don't get that. You
Speaker 1: don't get the last one until you do the other
Speaker 1: two first. Well, you had you had a particular mindset
Speaker 1: with that two thousand eight Championships Celtics team for you
Speaker 1: guys to capture that title. What has been the mindset? Um?
Speaker 1: You want your players to embody with this new run
Speaker 1: with Philly. Yeah. Every every group is different, you know, man.
Speaker 1: I had I had that that whold boot to thing
Speaker 1: with the Celtics, and they were just the perfect group
Speaker 1: because they were ready. They had all had you know,
Speaker 1: their m vps and they all stars, you know, Ray
Speaker 1: and KG and Paul. They were ready to win. Like
Speaker 1: they wanted to be coached, they wanted to be lad,
Speaker 1: they wanted to figure out how to do something together. Uh.
Speaker 1: Then I went with the Clippers and you know, Matt,
Speaker 1: that first group, as you know, uh, I thought the
Speaker 1: talent was there, you know, I just didn't think we
Speaker 1: ever wanted to be a team. Uh at least do
Speaker 1: it together. Uh we'll definitely, We'll definitely get into that
Speaker 1: a little bit later. Yeah, and and and it takes that.
Speaker 1: So then you go to this group and you know,
Speaker 1: I kept using the word yet like every time since
Speaker 1: I've taken this job, you know, Joel and beat and
Speaker 1: been having won And I said, well they can we
Speaker 1: say yet maybe one yet, like they still have time,
Speaker 1: they have time to they have to improve. We have
Speaker 1: to improve as a group together. But the yet word
Speaker 1: is very important. And that's what we're trying to do
Speaker 1: now is trying to remove that word. But that word
Speaker 1: is in front of us. And until we do something
Speaker 1: about it, guys, who's gonna stay there? Yeah? Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: doc um, I said, I said when you took the
Speaker 1: job that you are one coach that knows how to
Speaker 1: get that get the best out of out of his players,
Speaker 1: not only because you played, but you also knew how
Speaker 1: to hold guys are accountable. And that's what I think
Speaker 1: Ben was kind of missing, being that he has such
Speaker 1: a relationship, great relationship with Brett Brown and and and
Speaker 1: I know even with guys all stars like KG and
Speaker 1: Paul Hum, you held them accountable. I think that's gonna
Speaker 1: take these guys to the next level. How special are
Speaker 1: being being in UH and B. They're both better than
Speaker 1: I thought, which is I gotta tell you from a
Speaker 1: coach saying that that's a hell of a feeling scary
Speaker 1: feeling and both of them are in completely different ways.
Speaker 1: You know, there's that old saying you don't know a
Speaker 1: player until you play with him a coaching Um. And
Speaker 1: and like I loved him from Afar, Like I saw Ben. Uh.
Speaker 1: We had a game I think it was two years ago.
Speaker 1: He just came into l a and destroyed the Lakers
Speaker 1: and then destroyed the Clippers. And I was like, man,
Speaker 1: this guy. Uh. And then you coach him and he
Speaker 1: has so many different skill sets. Uh. You know, everybody's
Speaker 1: focused on his shooting and and when you watch him play,
Speaker 1: he does so many different things to affect winning that
Speaker 1: analytics and numbers can never justify on what he does. Um.
Speaker 1: He's one of the few guys Kauai had a little
Speaker 1: bit of this too. Were Defensively, he can literally swallow you.
Speaker 1: You know, that's how that's how it feels like when
Speaker 1: he gets into you, he just swallows you. You don't
Speaker 1: see that very often, uh, with guys and his instincts. Offensively,
Speaker 1: he's not a point guard like Magic was a six
Speaker 1: ten point guard. Ben can play point from his position.
Speaker 1: He's never gonna be a guy that comes down and
Speaker 1: see all the calls if you put him in actions
Speaker 1: with his instincts. I'm telling you there's there's I think
Speaker 1: it was the whiter. Someone said he has Lebron like instincts,
Speaker 1: and he does. You know, he has a size, he
Speaker 1: has the ability. Uh you know he can make only
Speaker 1: like a few people magic Lebron and him those bullet
Speaker 1: passes across the court because of their size. Um. So yeah,
Speaker 1: and then Joe l is Listen, he's offensively and I
Speaker 1: didn't know. I thought it was good. I'm not gonna
Speaker 1: lie like I thought he was really really good. Um,
Speaker 1: but I don't know how you stop him when he
Speaker 1: gets it in this place without double teeming him. Uh.
Speaker 1: And that's what teams are doing. And so what what
Speaker 1: we have to do is get him comfortable with being
Speaker 1: double team and get him to understand having a mindset.
Speaker 1: If you double team me, we're gonna score. If you
Speaker 1: don't double team me, we're gonna score. And he has
Speaker 1: that mindset. Now you can see it, like this is
Speaker 1: the first time he invites stuffle teams. Now you remember
Speaker 1: Barkley with like come on, guys, come on over here.
Speaker 1: He's doing that now. Um where you know in our
Speaker 1: first conversations it was hilarious. Oh you talked about you know,
Speaker 1: they're gonna double team me, and I was like, yeah, bro,
Speaker 1: that's what they should do, you know. And you need
Speaker 1: to get some tape on Tim Duncan. Yeah, that's fine. Um,
Speaker 1: And you're still getting yours and and and now he's
Speaker 1: realizing he can score and you can also facilitate from
Speaker 1: the post. And this is the last thing is we
Speaker 1: had to get our team to understand that No, Joel
Speaker 1: is our go to guy and we had to make
Speaker 1: that clear. Like so, I think just defining what our
Speaker 1: guys needed to do has really been helpful being a
Speaker 1: star in your role. And that was one thing I
Speaker 1: remembered you priest to the Clipper team is just you know,
Speaker 1: everyone could be a star what they have to do,
Speaker 1: and when you do that, you have a better chance
Speaker 1: at winning. See, man, I didn't even know you were
Speaker 1: listening to me. I'm not I was, I was. I
Speaker 1: was multitasking. You got a second chance to coach Tobias Harris.
Speaker 1: He had his best year as a pro with you
Speaker 1: as a Clipper. Um, now he's at that level again,
Speaker 1: which to me was huge because you know, things didn't
Speaker 1: work out with Jimmy Butler and you guys felt like,
Speaker 1: you guys needed a wing that can close the games
Speaker 1: and do a lot of the things that Tobias has
Speaker 1: in him. He just hasn't been able to show all
Speaker 1: the time. What has it been like, because obviously I
Speaker 1: think you're someone that's been able to get into him
Speaker 1: and encourage him to be the best of himself. And
Speaker 1: we're definitely seeing that again with you as his coach
Speaker 1: for the second time. It's great. You know sometimes that
Speaker 1: you know you you can go back to the same
Speaker 1: place and it then it's not the same, right, it's different. Uh,
Speaker 1: this one has been great. I mean I think the
Speaker 1: first practice, uh, ball swung, the bias start going between
Speaker 1: his legs. I blow the west. I was like, now, Brobs,
Speaker 1: that's just not you, right, and he's laughing. Was like,
Speaker 1: here we go, you know, here we go. But when
Speaker 1: I tell you, when he's straight line, quick decisions, he
Speaker 1: is a monster to garden. And that's what we got
Speaker 1: him doing again. He's confident. You know, he's catching it
Speaker 1: and shooting, catching it and attacking with his size. You know,
Speaker 1: people forget you guys probably remember, but he used to
Speaker 1: be just a post player. Yeah, in college and so
Speaker 1: we're doing we're giving him that as well back and
Speaker 1: put the post game back into him. So it's been
Speaker 1: really nice. And and and as a guy, let's listen,
Speaker 1: you need great guys on your team, and he's one
Speaker 1: of them. Yeah. I had him as a rookie Matt
Speaker 1: and Milwaukee. I had him Milwaukee, and he's I mean,
Speaker 1: one of the best kids ever. I knew once he
Speaker 1: get up under the right teacher, he would be good.
Speaker 1: But he had all the tools, the size, everything. But besides,
Speaker 1: because like I said, he's a great kid, one of
Speaker 1: the best teammates you can have. He just looked like,
Speaker 1: to me, looks like he's at peace with this game.
Speaker 1: He's very comfortable at what he's doing. And that's obviously
Speaker 1: when he's the most effect to Let's take it back
Speaker 1: to your upbringing. Um, your dad was a cop. Was
Speaker 1: that a tough situation back then? Obviously police brutality has
Speaker 1: been on the spotlight my whole life. Was it tough
Speaker 1: having a father as a cop as a child. It's funny, man,
Speaker 1: it wasn't. Because I lived in the community, a black community, Um,
Speaker 1: mostly black cops. You know, Uh, my dad was a cop.
Speaker 1: He was a baseball coach, the football coach, the basketball coach. Uh.
Speaker 1: Every time I came home from school, there's some mom
Speaker 1: a grandmother uh, sitting on the couch with their son crying. Uh,
Speaker 1: and my dad giving them, you know, advice or threaten
Speaker 1: them that if I see you do that again, I'm
Speaker 1: gonnatinch your butt. You know, my dad was tough man like,
Speaker 1: but he was tough to me. He was tough to
Speaker 1: the whole community in a very like positive way. Um.
Speaker 1: But and we don't have that anymore. So. But the
Speaker 1: fact that, and this is what gets me is the
Speaker 1: fact that my dad had to have to talk with me.
Speaker 1: Think about that. My dad's a coup and and he
Speaker 1: used to tell me, boy, when you when you go
Speaker 1: out of this neighborhood, like, you gotta be careful. Uh,
Speaker 1: you gotta watch it if you get pulled over. Uh,
Speaker 1: if you get stopped. I remember when I got my license.
Speaker 1: He sits me down on the couch, and that was
Speaker 1: the talk. If I pulled you over, you're good. If
Speaker 1: Willie Boyd pulled you over, and Willie board was another
Speaker 1: cop in neighborhood, we all knew their names. Um, you know,
Speaker 1: you walk down the street. My neighborhood, the coup starts
Speaker 1: riding down the street. You would wave, but you're going.
Speaker 1: You go in the next neighborhood and the cop rose
Speaker 1: slows down. The first thing you want to do is run.
Speaker 1: The second thing you start thinking is and here it
Speaker 1: comes something, Something's gonna happen. Uh. And it did happen.
Speaker 1: It happened to all of us, happened to me. I
Speaker 1: got thrown into bad wagon once and I was just
Speaker 1: standing in the corner. But I wasn't in my neighborhood. Um,
Speaker 1: and you know, so yeah, it was difficult in that way,
Speaker 1: but not the way. I cann't imagine how we would
Speaker 1: be now. Listen, we didn't have body comps. We had
Speaker 1: no proof. You know, my grandmother, my my great grandfather,
Speaker 1: all of them used to complain and tell us about
Speaker 1: these stories, but we didn't have any proof. Uh, George Floyd,
Speaker 1: and and even before George Floyd, we got proof now
Speaker 1: that that it actually is happening, and it's happening at
Speaker 1: a at a normal rate. It's not like once every
Speaker 1: five years, you know, it's it's happening at a normal rate.
Speaker 1: And you know, I'm so happy what you guys are
Speaker 1: doing what everyone is doing because without our voices, um,
Speaker 1: this stuff we get swept under the rug. And it's
Speaker 1: not over just because Joe Biden went and got in office. Like,
Speaker 1: we gotta keep the pressure on. But we gotta get
Speaker 1: legislation mass, guys, we gotta get things changed. Um. And
Speaker 1: you know change isn't bad for people, it's bad for
Speaker 1: people who don't want that change. Um. And you know equality,
Speaker 1: I don't understand what's wrong with equality and why people
Speaker 1: think if I give you equal rights that I'm losing
Speaker 1: something right, It's it's nuts, but that comes with them
Speaker 1: when you have everything, you don't want to give up
Speaker 1: anything and you're not. But but we want our fair
Speaker 1: shape and and and guys like we gotta keep fighting
Speaker 1: for it. I think you touched on it, uh perfectly.
Speaker 1: You know. Growing back up, I remember hearing stories where
Speaker 1: the community knew the cops back in the day by name,
Speaker 1: you know, so it wasn't necessarily if if I'm in
Speaker 1: your neighborhood, I know you. I know who's causing street
Speaker 1: is Willy down the street or it is Gym around
Speaker 1: the corner. They knew people by name, and now they're
Speaker 1: putting cops that have no relation or understanding to these communities,
Speaker 1: and they're and they're scared. And when you're scared, do
Speaker 1: crazy shit. And and we're scared on both sides. You like,
Speaker 1: they're scared of us, we're scared of them, you know.
Speaker 1: So there's no actual line of synergy, there's no communication.
Speaker 1: Most of times it's just guns and tazers and that,
Speaker 1: and that's very unfortunate. Well, think about how many times,
Speaker 1: probably in different communities, where a cop will see a
Speaker 1: guy do something, even break the law, and he'll grab
Speaker 1: and say, hey, John, you don't do that kind of stuff, man,
Speaker 1: and send him home. But then think about that same
Speaker 1: cop that lives, you know, thirty miles away, and he's
Speaker 1: driving down the street now, living in that working in
Speaker 1: that community. Then he doesn't know anybody, and he's scared.
Speaker 1: He sees someone doing anything, he's gonna arrest him, get him,
Speaker 1: uh and throw him in down. Um And and and listen,
Speaker 1: we we're not we're not. We're not judged the same.
Speaker 1: We're not. It's not just the cops, but you know,
Speaker 1: the law like they see us differently. Um. And so
Speaker 1: it has to change. I really believe that the reckoning
Speaker 1: of uh just understanding that this always happened and and
Speaker 1: admitting that it happened is a good therapy for this country.
Speaker 1: But no one wants to do it, at least a
Speaker 1: lot of people that some do. Things are changing, but
Speaker 1: we still got to push it. Great first step, UM,
Speaker 1: what was your introduction to race and racism? You know
Speaker 1: you and I have talked before this. Um, hopefully we
Speaker 1: can still get you for the project. We just finished
Speaker 1: my uh my Black Mark project. But you faced a
Speaker 1: lot of racism in your life, and you said you
Speaker 1: grew up in a black community, So I'm guessing stepping
Speaker 1: outside of that community for the first time was when
Speaker 1: you face racism. Yeah, even earlier, Matt. Like, if you
Speaker 1: look at the map where I'm at in Chicago, May
Speaker 1: Would is surrounded by like five very affluent white neighborhoods,
Speaker 1: and so it was almost like an electric wall, you know,
Speaker 1: like if you went outside of that Provider West High
Speaker 1: School I went to when I was in grade school,
Speaker 1: young grade school, there was a big racial riots there
Speaker 1: on TV every day because Provider we bled into all
Speaker 1: those communities and so there are big race riots. Um,
Speaker 1: I didn't really understand them. I just knew that the
Speaker 1: blacks are walking on one side and the whites were
Speaker 1: on the other side, and the state police in the
Speaker 1: middle of the street. And people were throwing bottles and
Speaker 1: all that. So that was my first introduction. But the
Speaker 1: first one I really got was when I was I
Speaker 1: think I wanted to say it was in the fifth grade,
Speaker 1: maybe in the fourth grade. My dad came home and
Speaker 1: told me, you to take me to a basketball count
Speaker 1: uh and fourth grade going a little kids camp. Um.
Speaker 1: It was at an all white neighborhood. One it was
Speaker 1: very affluent white high schools. And I walked in and
Speaker 1: the only black there. And on the third day and
Speaker 1: I'm bragging, but I was destroying these kids, um and
Speaker 1: kick on me a nigger, and and so like I
Speaker 1: lost it, you know, like what wait a minute, what?
Speaker 1: And and so I tried we you know, I threw
Speaker 1: a punch, you know. Uh. They wanted to kick me
Speaker 1: out of course because I was the troublemaker. Uh. My
Speaker 1: dad comes in to pick me up, but he has
Speaker 1: his police officer on outfit on, so he got respect,
Speaker 1: you know, because it comes a police officer. And so
Speaker 1: you know, that night, my you know, I'm I'm crying,
Speaker 1: tom mad you know, and my dad says, all right, um,
Speaker 1: let's get dressed in the morning. And I'm like, for
Speaker 1: what he said, because you're going back to the camp.
Speaker 1: And I was like, what do you mean that I
Speaker 1: want to go back there? And he said, oh, no,
Speaker 1: you're going back, and you're just gonna show him, uh
Speaker 1: who this nigger is. And that's exact words that he used.
Speaker 1: And you know, I did not want to go. Um,
Speaker 1: but I went back and the next two days, you know,
Speaker 1: for whatever, fourth or fifth grade, I wish I could
Speaker 1: remember the grade could do. I did everything I could
Speaker 1: basketball as I'll say that, and we want the whole thing.
Speaker 1: And I got the m v P. And the kids
Speaker 1: were cheering when I left, and you know, it's it's
Speaker 1: it's funny. The only way those kids could have ever
Speaker 1: saw it. You know, he's all right, But it was
Speaker 1: by me coming back and taking the heat, you know,
Speaker 1: so I did. Mine was very similar as a child,
Speaker 1: third or fourth grade, moving from the Bay Area to Sacramento,
Speaker 1: where I was still in a predominantly mixed neighborhood. I
Speaker 1: went to an all white school, so they wouldn't let
Speaker 1: me play nothing like no at recess lunchtime, I couldn't
Speaker 1: play any sports. I was nigger, this nigger that. So
Speaker 1: I was chasing their kids around, beating them up, fighting
Speaker 1: until that one day I finally got an opportunity to
Speaker 1: play sports to them, and then they saw that I
Speaker 1: could play football, basketball, and baseball, and that was kind
Speaker 1: of the opening too. He's not that bad. He's just
Speaker 1: not the same color. But he's cool, dude. And I
Speaker 1: think through sports was my way of kind of, you know,
Speaker 1: allowing people to see who I was as a person
Speaker 1: and not just the color of my skin. So it's
Speaker 1: crazy because you just don't understand as a child, like
Speaker 1: they don't like me. Why, Like I've never met him,
Speaker 1: how come they don't like me strictly the color of
Speaker 1: your skin? It's crazy. But sports is amazing because the
Speaker 1: thing I love about four is um people want to
Speaker 1: win and they forget color quick. Uh. And like the
Speaker 1: reason I love basketball is because there's a score, there's
Speaker 1: nobody up there like judging and then decide, well, you
Speaker 1: guys win, because it wouldn't go so well for us
Speaker 1: if that was true. Yeah, So that's what makes sports
Speaker 1: so great. Yeah, absolutely, So that we talked to us,
Speaker 1: we're talking about Chicago. Tell me this how how rough
Speaker 1: was chicag don't your upbringing? It was rough? But you know,
Speaker 1: I don't think you know what. You know, Maywood was
Speaker 1: a little nicer than a lot of the other places.
Speaker 1: You know, it was a lower middle class place. You know,
Speaker 1: Maywood now is really rough. Uh, but it might have been,
Speaker 1: you know, I remember this is a true story. Um.
Speaker 1: I want to say Michael or or Sambo, we want
Speaker 1: of them. They all came and we made I made
Speaker 1: the Playboy All American team in college and we we
Speaker 1: got to go to the Playboard mansion. I won't tell
Speaker 1: any stories about that there, but we we went to
Speaker 1: my house one night because my mom wanted to make
Speaker 1: everybody dinner because it was in Chicago. And I read
Speaker 1: years later there's a man doc Lives, and I was like,
Speaker 1: are you kidding me? So my point is, uh, I
Speaker 1: think when you're growing up, it is what you have.
Speaker 1: You don't look at it as rough. Like I mean, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's what you know. My best two friends are from Maywood,
Speaker 1: you know, and uh, shoot, man, I love growing up there.
Speaker 1: I don't. I couldn't have picked a better place. When
Speaker 1: did you find When did basketball become a part of
Speaker 1: your life. Oh early early, My uncle Jim Brewer played. Uh,
Speaker 1: you know my Provider I wanted to go to University
Speaker 1: of Minnesota played in the NBA. I think overall Providers
Speaker 1: High school has the Latin NBA players. Uh from one
Speaker 1: high school. That is not a recruiting it's just local kids. Um,
Speaker 1: you know from Mike Finley. I mean, we can keep
Speaker 1: naming them. Uh, but it's so it was always in
Speaker 1: my mind. I've always wanted to be, um a basketball
Speaker 1: player young young. I didn't know I want to be
Speaker 1: a basketball coach. That that came late, but the playing
Speaker 1: wasn't no brainer for me. Was so he was younger
Speaker 1: than you, I think. But Benji Wilson, you remember hearing
Speaker 1: about him. Are you already in the league by the
Speaker 1: time he his wave came to Chicago. Yeah. I want
Speaker 1: to say I was probably about my six or seventh year,
Speaker 1: but we all knew each other. Um, and then you said,
Speaker 1: the best summer league the Chicago State. The Summer League
Speaker 1: of Chicago was off the charts. That's back when all
Speaker 1: the NBA players could come. You can play in different
Speaker 1: summer leagues. Um, places packed is free to get in
Speaker 1: and uh you know they would always put a high
Speaker 1: school team in. You know, I got to play as
Speaker 1: a senior in high school against all the pros. We
Speaker 1: actually my junior year, we actually made it to the finals.
Speaker 1: H high school team. Now that high school team had
Speaker 1: market guire Zay had time as Daryl Walker, Terry Cummins.
Speaker 1: We were looking we're loaded. But you know so I
Speaker 1: think we played like Ricky Sober's and Reggie theas and artists, Gilmore,
Speaker 1: you know a lot of the bull players, so that
Speaker 1: those are the best days. But then you heard I
Speaker 1: never got to see him in person. Guys, but they
Speaker 1: said that that kid was wonderful. And what made it
Speaker 1: so sad is growing up we were protected, like no
Speaker 1: one touched the athletes. And clearly that has changed, which
Speaker 1: tells you a lot of things have changed. So fortunate,
Speaker 1: so very decorated high school career. UM, all American across
Speaker 1: the board. What made you choose Marquette close close to home? Um,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm one of my parents to be able
Speaker 1: to come to the games. I didn't want to go
Speaker 1: too close to paul Is where like Isaiah, Mark and
Speaker 1: I had said we don't go. Mark went Isaiah with
Speaker 1: the Indiana, so as I always blamed Isaiah ruined it
Speaker 1: so uh and then I wasn't going. It was just
Speaker 1: too close. So Marquette was close enough. And I knew
Speaker 1: Rick mjaris Ricken who was a great coach, and I've
Speaker 1: been going to his basketball camp since freshman in high school. Uh,
Speaker 1: so they pretty much had me from the start. So
Speaker 1: hold on. So you Isaiah Thomas and Mark ocguire were
Speaker 1: all discussing on going to DePaul. Yeah, wow, almost happened. Uh,
Speaker 1: Mark and Isaiah. I thought Isaiah was gonna go uh,
Speaker 1: and then he decided to go to Indiana. And Isaiah
Speaker 1: earlyer always recruited me to go to Indiana with him
Speaker 1: because I was the following year. And and then I
Speaker 1: saw that was working, and I was like, so who else?
Speaker 1: Who else was recruiting your coach? I could have gone anywhere, um,
Speaker 1: but I ended up narrowing it down Michigan. You know,
Speaker 1: here's a crazy story. Derek Harper and I got to
Speaker 1: know each other from the from the five Star basketball count.
Speaker 1: So Derek and I decided let's team up. So Derek
Speaker 1: and I were both going to University of Michigan. Johnny
Speaker 1: Yor was a coach Johnny Or then calls us and says, hey, guys,
Speaker 1: I just took a new job to Iowa State and
Speaker 1: do you guys want to come? And thanks but with
Speaker 1: the answer. So Derek ended up at Illinois and that's
Speaker 1: what changed to the Marquette Park. But there was a time,
Speaker 1: very good chance that Derek and I would have ended
Speaker 1: up at the same school. What was What was it
Speaker 1: like at Marquette? It was great, you know, Um, we
Speaker 1: were good. I think we made it in the final
Speaker 1: six team. Uh. You know, I would say in a
Speaker 1: lot of ways, Matt Marquette in some ways kind of
Speaker 1: saved my life. And and the fact that I didn't
Speaker 1: really I wasn't really into school, uh you know. And
Speaker 1: then I got to Marquette. I met this professor that
Speaker 1: my freshman year had just decided, oh no, you you're
Speaker 1: gonna be a student. Um, and he wouldn't let go,
Speaker 1: like he was just he wouldn't let go. By the
Speaker 1: end of it, I was going to his house. Uh.
Speaker 1: He was my tutor, and you know, I didn't like
Speaker 1: him early on. I'm not gonna lie. Actually couldn't stand
Speaker 1: him because I mean I was like no other student
Speaker 1: has to do this uh Man he and he kept saying, man,
Speaker 1: you you have knowledge. You just got to learn how
Speaker 1: to write and talk. And so you Dr Wolfe was
Speaker 1: his name, and I'm thanking God that he came into
Speaker 1: my life. So in college, who's some of the toughest
Speaker 1: opponents you faced? Oh, Man, Louisville. Uh, Louisville was rough.
Speaker 1: They had the cray brothers if you remember that Rodney
Speaker 1: who was a brother. Yeah, and he had the craw brothers.
Speaker 1: So they were tough. I was was really tough. Um,
Speaker 1: you know the Paul Heck, we had to deal with Mark.
Speaker 1: So we played Houston and that's when they had Clyde
Speaker 1: Rob Williams. You remember Rob Williams was really good. And
Speaker 1: then this African guy came in the freshman and he
Speaker 1: hadn't played much that year, and he came in like
Speaker 1: the middle of the first half. He just blocking, throwing
Speaker 1: a block in our shots. And I remember Hank Raymond
Speaker 1: and Rick Man Jars at half time losing their mind
Speaker 1: like this kid never plays, and you know it was funny.
Speaker 1: It turned out to be Elijah one. So but he
Speaker 1: didn't play. He just knew how to block everybody's shot.
Speaker 1: It's amazing how good he got and I quickly he
Speaker 1: did it. You know what's funny is, like you said,
Speaker 1: he all said and done. Maybe one of the most
Speaker 1: skilled bigs ever as far as footwork and in pace
Speaker 1: of playing. To think that in college it was just
Speaker 1: a raw athleticism and how much he improved in a
Speaker 1: short amount of time. It really is. You know, you
Speaker 1: think about like fundamentally sound footwork. Um, you know when
Speaker 1: you think footwork, do you think him, Tim Duncan, Kevin
Speaker 1: McHale and I don't know if you go further than that, right,
Speaker 1: really not for bigs. It's crazy you could you could
Speaker 1: throw and beat in that category. He got hell of
Speaker 1: a footwork for a big man. I think he's the
Speaker 1: first seven foot we see that a year old step
Speaker 1: at full speed stuff. He got the up and under. Uh,
Speaker 1: his up and under maybe the slowest up and under
Speaker 1: I've ever seen. And it's so effective. Like the first
Speaker 1: couple of times in practice, I'm like, I know you
Speaker 1: just traveled, uh, because it's so slow, and then when
Speaker 1: you look at it, it's it's beautiful. You know, he's
Speaker 1: got the same thing those two guys had. Though. He
Speaker 1: could shoot and he's figured it out man. He says
Speaker 1: that all up with that little up fake, and you
Speaker 1: gotta honor it because he can shoot the ball field.
Speaker 1: Nineteen eight three second round draft picks of the Atlanta
Speaker 1: Hawks take us back a little bit because the the
Speaker 1: NBA is struggling with image in the early eighties. It's
Speaker 1: too black, there's too much drugs. Your first year as commissioner,
Speaker 1: Stern's first year, what was going into the NBA like
Speaker 1: in eight three? It was it was not a good league, guys.
Speaker 1: It was drugging tested Um, pretty nasty league. When I
Speaker 1: first came in. You know, beer everywhere in the locker room,
Speaker 1: guy smoking cigarettes. Uh, it was crazy. We we had
Speaker 1: and I'm not gonna use the name, but we we
Speaker 1: had a meeting one time, me and Randy Whitman with
Speaker 1: Mike for Tello, head coach. He brought in his in
Speaker 1: his room and said, Hey, don't give this guy any money.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, I'm thinking I'm not getting anybody money anyway. Uh.
Speaker 1: But know it was it was a teammate and he
Speaker 1: was worried about the guy using for drugs. And then
Speaker 1: so but I tell you it changed in like three years.
Speaker 1: It was amazing how quickly the league, the players change,
Speaker 1: uh and went to the whole other side of being
Speaker 1: pro players. H. You didn't see it anymore, you didn't
Speaker 1: hear about it anymore. Um. But I take my first
Speaker 1: few years that was a roughly, really rough teaming up
Speaker 1: with the young Dominique Wilkins. Great was neat. I love him.
Speaker 1: I love him still one of my favor guys. You know.
Speaker 1: Um he he was man, he's he didn't get enough
Speaker 1: to do. Um how good he was offensive he was
Speaker 1: he was as an unstoppable of a player. Uh that
Speaker 1: has ever played offensively can do everything. Um. I mean
Speaker 1: I've never seen an I missed a shot and then tiptok.
Speaker 1: You know. And when I was young and basketball caps,
Speaker 1: kids would always ask me and they ever been dumped on?
Speaker 1: And I said, every game by my teammate. You know,
Speaker 1: I don't know how many times I thought I was
Speaker 1: getting off as a rebound and then all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: this guy is jumping over me. Uh. You know, he
Speaker 1: had this saying a lot of people will go the
Speaker 1: first to the top floor, but very few people can
Speaker 1: go to the penthouse. And that's where he was tell me, like,
Speaker 1: when you throw the ball, throw it to the penhouse. Uh,
Speaker 1: throw it where nobody else can go. And so he
Speaker 1: made me. You know, I had years where I had
Speaker 1: ten assist I had twenty six assist games, and I
Speaker 1: was I was a good player, but that was you know,
Speaker 1: I was good. But that when you know, man, you
Speaker 1: could you could throw the ball anywhere, and he was
Speaker 1: gonna go get it. So he made me really good.
Speaker 1: So you guys are in the US is a building
Speaker 1: a winner in Atlanta. You guys played the Celtics Big
Speaker 1: Three in the playoffs and eight sight. What were those
Speaker 1: matchups like? They were brutal? Uh. I mean they were
Speaker 1: just so deep and good. We had them, Matt and
Speaker 1: one time we're up three too in that in that
Speaker 1: great series. And you remember the game seven, the Dominante
Speaker 1: Bird series, shot for shot, shot for shot, and you know,
Speaker 1: I think I ended up that game. But like you know,
Speaker 1: eighteen points, fifteen assists, six rebounds. Randy Whitman was twelve
Speaker 1: for twelve. I think there are five turnovers combined in
Speaker 1: that game. It was one of the most perfect play games,
Speaker 1: that game seven. Uh. But at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: Michael and uh and Larry Bird, Larry Bird that night
Speaker 1: was listen. Uh, he was unbelievable and he was so clutch.
Speaker 1: Was just as clutch that night. It's just the Larry
Speaker 1: in the fourth quarter was unstoppable. But that was that
Speaker 1: Boston team. Uh, it's one of the greatest teams ever assembled.
Speaker 1: That that that that front line was they were they
Speaker 1: were tough. I said. Bird had twenty of his thirty
Speaker 1: four in the fourth quarter. Dominique has Dominique had seventeen
Speaker 1: of his forty seven in the fourth quarter, and they
Speaker 1: were going, they was going at it. Oh. Man. You
Speaker 1: know it was crazy too, because it's rare in the game.
Speaker 1: You feel it like you know, you guys have been
Speaker 1: in games where after the games people said, man, that
Speaker 1: was the most amazing game, But you were in it,
Speaker 1: and you're like, you know, I didn't feel that. I
Speaker 1: knew it was a good game. That was one of
Speaker 1: the few games I was doing this the games. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was the hell of a game, you know. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they say you battled with Danny Age, but you went
Speaker 1: to work on him later. Yeah, yeah, I talked more
Speaker 1: trash to Danny. Yeah. People forget how hated Danny Age was.
Speaker 1: He was he was. They did not like him because
Speaker 1: you know, Danny's an instigator, he really is. Uh? And
Speaker 1: who was all three hit Danny ainge um when he
Speaker 1: was with the Sixers and sodyll three got enough money
Speaker 1: from fans to pay for his fan Think about that.
Speaker 1: That's that's crazy, um, And Danny loved it. That's who
Speaker 1: Dandy is. Like he wants to be the instigator. Danny's
Speaker 1: an instigator as a as a president of the gym.
Speaker 1: You know, he really is. Danny wants to instigate stuff. Uh,
Speaker 1: because he's as competitive as a dude that I've ever
Speaker 1: been around. Yeah, I love Dan. He drafted me so
Speaker 1: that I love. I ever loved Dannie. That's my guy.
Speaker 1: Now he's the best. I tell you. Our relationship is
Speaker 1: the way it'should word like if you want to win, um,
Speaker 1: because it's not just your team, is not just a coach,
Speaker 1: is not just the players, but when the coach and
Speaker 1: in the front office is lockstep and everything Like Dan
Speaker 1: and I had I'm telling you guys, we had arguments
Speaker 1: about players and then we go to dinner, you know, yeah,
Speaker 1: and we started laughing about it and we had this
Speaker 1: thing like you know, I'll give you one and you
Speaker 1: give me one. And then What that meant was every
Speaker 1: once in while, Daniel come in with a hell, no,
Speaker 1: we're not doing that trade. No, because then he loves
Speaker 1: trades like he he every day he's talking about a trade.
Speaker 1: But then I would say most of the time I was,
Speaker 1: I would give in and say let's do it um,
Speaker 1: you know, And so he was great to work for him.
Speaker 1: You have to matched up against the best opposing guard.
Speaker 1: What was it like going guys like Jordan and Isaiah?
Speaker 1: Isaiah grew up playing against Um. It's funny. We we
Speaker 1: had some battles. We were ranked number one and two
Speaker 1: in high school and they beat us UM in a
Speaker 1: big game. Uh. They knocked us out of my junior year. Uh,
Speaker 1: they knocked us out of the state tournament. We played
Speaker 1: that same year in the Christmas tournament. Uh. Think about this.
Speaker 1: I was in nineteen, I don't know years, nineteen seventy
Speaker 1: nineteen year, nineteen seventy nine. My brother sold a ticket
Speaker 1: for a high school game in nineteen seventy nine for
Speaker 1: five hundred dollars. Think about that. That's how I said
Speaker 1: that That game was. It was like one of the
Speaker 1: biggest games ever because as there was a number one
Speaker 1: player in the country as a senior and that was
Speaker 1: the number one player in the country as a junior.
Speaker 1: Were from the same area. Uh, it was award at night.
Speaker 1: His brother was was intimidating the rest uh as the
Speaker 1: rest party, which to this day I still believe played
Speaker 1: a part in the decision of that game. But yeah,
Speaker 1: and then, uh, you know, Michael was just tough. Michael
Speaker 1: was Michael was ruthless. Um. People don't get like when
Speaker 1: we talk about Michael, the guys who played against them,
Speaker 1: I don't. I mean, Kobe approached his competitiveness. Other than that,
Speaker 1: I've never seen anyone more competitive. Um. I remember his
Speaker 1: rookie years, my second year and he got up to
Speaker 1: an amazing star and we played him. Remember after the game,
Speaker 1: at my first thought, there's no way he can play
Speaker 1: that hard all season. Wow, And like ten years later
Speaker 1: he was still playing the same way. It was just
Speaker 1: I was amazed how much he gave on the defensive
Speaker 1: end and the offensive end, and his energy level at
Speaker 1: which he played. Like, um, I don't know if there
Speaker 1: there there have been anything like that. So that's why
Speaker 1: you know, I hate comparing like the generations because le
Speaker 1: Bron is gonna end up having the greatest career ever.
Speaker 1: Their rookie stats docked. Their rookie stats are damn they're
Speaker 1: the same. They are like and you know, I still
Speaker 1: for me, Michael is the greatest player ever. But Lebronen
Speaker 1: is gonna have the greatest career ever. Um, and what
Speaker 1: he's doing right now is incredible. So it's it's unbelievable.
Speaker 1: But you know, the toughest guy for me to guard
Speaker 1: his magic um because you know, um, Matt, you have
Speaker 1: the twins at home, right and so when you're playing
Speaker 1: in the backyard and you're playing against him, you know
Speaker 1: how you look over them like their little children. You know,
Speaker 1: I never did everybody. And I was a great defender
Speaker 1: and I get up into him the first game and
Speaker 1: he had that smirk like looking over top of you,
Speaker 1: and it pissed me off. I'm not gonna lie like
Speaker 1: like this dude is like chopping me right now. And
Speaker 1: it's not not a lot you can do with it.
Speaker 1: Because he was so big. You know, he was big
Speaker 1: man people, he is big dude, uh, and just he
Speaker 1: was for me, he was the harvest because of the size.
Speaker 1: With Michael was the best I have to go. So
Speaker 1: as the eighties turned to the nineties. You had a
Speaker 1: quick stint with the Clippers, helping them reach the playoffs
Speaker 1: and then off to New York. What was your thoughts
Speaker 1: being able to head to the Mecca and play for
Speaker 1: legendary someone who started out West and then ended up
Speaker 1: as you know that the mafia, Pat comes to the Knicks.
Speaker 1: What was that experience like change my life? I never
Speaker 1: won the coach until I played for pat Riley. Um.
Speaker 1: I had done internships doing TV, That's what I was
Speaker 1: gonna do, you know. And then I played for pat
Speaker 1: Riley and just motivationally and how he has his ability
Speaker 1: to make you buy in as a group and and
Speaker 1: hate and every other team like um, you know, it
Speaker 1: got to the point you didn't like anybody Like Michael
Speaker 1: and I had a hell of a relationship, uh Jordan,
Speaker 1: until I played for the Knicks. It over. But that's
Speaker 1: how like you played for Riley Man he was the
Speaker 1: best and and we we were good. You know we
Speaker 1: think about we had home court um against the Bulls
Speaker 1: in that series and you know watching it that that documentary,
Speaker 1: this summer was tortured. Uh for me, you know, we're
Speaker 1: up to old and remember they talked about it. They
Speaker 1: had a five day break before day break in between
Speaker 1: game two and three, and for four days they talked
Speaker 1: about Michael Jordan Gambler and even I knew, we knew then.
Speaker 1: I said, man, this this is not good. That's all
Speaker 1: you're doing is poking the bear and we wasn't doing it.
Speaker 1: Like I kept saying, like it's one thing if it's us,
Speaker 1: but it's the media. And then just kept going and
Speaker 1: I think Michael had like fifty something Game three, Game
Speaker 1: four he did it again, and we had him in
Speaker 1: game five. Man, um, you know, we didn't miss some
Speaker 1: big free throws and then Charles at that the three
Speaker 1: lay up you know play. But other than that, yeah,
Speaker 1: that was That's the toughest loss in my life. Um,
Speaker 1: I would say, you know, as a player, that was
Speaker 1: the most difficult loss that I've ever had. So the
Speaker 1: next season, you guys go to the finals, you're injured,
Speaker 1: you feel like you're coming back and you're ready to play,
Speaker 1: and Riley doesn't activate you. How did that happen? How
Speaker 1: did that? What was the interaction between you guys after that?
Speaker 1: Not good? You know? Um the reason is, and it's
Speaker 1: it's called the DC Rivers Room. Basically back then you
Speaker 1: had to change You had to give your your your
Speaker 1: roster before the first round of the playoffs, and once
Speaker 1: you said it, you couldn't change it. So the doctors
Speaker 1: are telling rounds that there's a very good chance that
Speaker 1: I could be healthy by the finals, but they couldn't
Speaker 1: guarantee it. What what What injury did you have at
Speaker 1: the time? A c L. Yeah, so it was a
Speaker 1: big injury. And but what killing and Riley wrote about
Speaker 1: it in his book was so it hurt our relationship
Speaker 1: because I was pissed. I was putting in. I was
Speaker 1: putting in the time. It would have been seven eight months,
Speaker 1: so it's been very early, uh to come back and
Speaker 1: been the earliest at that point. But had done the
Speaker 1: work and he calls me and he makes that decision.
Speaker 1: And I was crushed, man, because I worked my butt off,
Speaker 1: but I kept working. We go through it, We keep going,
Speaker 1: We get to the finals, and by the finals, we
Speaker 1: have a practice and I'm practising that and you can
Speaker 1: see Riley looking at me like, oh man, the guys uh,
Speaker 1: and you know, starts goes to for eighteen in that
Speaker 1: one game. Um, I'm sitting on the bench and street clothes,
Speaker 1: you know, that was. That was a hard one for
Speaker 1: me because you you play your life at least I did.
Speaker 1: I wanted to win a title, man, and sitting in
Speaker 1: street clothes, that was. That was brutal. That was brutal
Speaker 1: for me, especially with that team that was such a
Speaker 1: great team, Anthony Mason and Charles Smith, Charles Oakley, John
Speaker 1: starts Greg Anthony, I mean we had some dogs that
Speaker 1: that was a rough basketball team and I just love
Speaker 1: playing for him and with them. How did you get
Speaker 1: on them? How did you get on the coaching track
Speaker 1: after you left the Spurs? You know, see when you
Speaker 1: probably know this story a little bit. Um, I had
Speaker 1: no interest in coaching. UM, and then I played for
Speaker 1: Rows and I start thinking maybe I want to coach.
Speaker 1: And whenever retired from the Spurs, UM, I got an
Speaker 1: offer from NBC to do the telecast and t n T.
Speaker 1: I chose t n T. I get a call from
Speaker 1: Pop UM and Pop wants me to be the assistant
Speaker 1: for Bob Hill. UM. But you know it was more
Speaker 1: Pop's ideal than Bob's idea. And so that's that was
Speaker 1: smart enough to know that what that that that's not good?
Speaker 1: So I turned that down. UM. And then I did
Speaker 1: the T and T for the three years, UM, and
Speaker 1: it was great because you know, at that point, I
Speaker 1: think Pop takes over, so I got to watch him
Speaker 1: do his job. I got an offer from Milwaukee in
Speaker 1: the second year, and I turned it down. UM. I
Speaker 1: just wentn't ready honestly, UM, you know, to coach, I
Speaker 1: just gotten out the league. But they offered me the job.
Speaker 1: I turned that down. UH. And you know, in any profession,
Speaker 1: if you turn a job down, it's like, man, we've
Speaker 1: gotta get him. You know. I didn't do it on
Speaker 1: for that reason. But that next year I had two offers.
Speaker 1: I could have coached the Wizards West Unsealed was the GM.
Speaker 1: They offered me the job or the Magic, and I
Speaker 1: chose the Magic because we knew they were going to rebuild. UM.
Speaker 1: And you know, my first year, I won Coach of
Speaker 1: the Year with guys that UM, you guys would identify with,
Speaker 1: you know, like that was you guys played against that
Speaker 1: team that was a hard go out. Well, well, let's
Speaker 1: we didn't have the problem on our team was when
Speaker 1: he got down the stretch, we had nobody to go to. UH.
Speaker 1: But that team was so fun to coach, and it took.
Speaker 1: I couldn't have had a more perfect first year because
Speaker 1: we didn't have like a lot of great offensive players.
Speaker 1: I had to think outside the box. Um. I had
Speaker 1: to create a t O s on on on the
Speaker 1: spur of the moment um and that served me well
Speaker 1: for the rest of my coaching career. How excited were
Speaker 1: you when and when Orlando traded for team at that summer? Oh? Man, listen,
Speaker 1: you know so first of all we had a chance. Um,
Speaker 1: that was all free agency. We we we John Gabriel
Speaker 1: was the GM. We did an amazing job, like we
Speaker 1: had Disney involved. Uh, some of the stuff we did
Speaker 1: when we brought those guys in, so t mac. I
Speaker 1: think Grant Hill was first, and Grant Hill said yes.
Speaker 1: Grant him said yes, by the way, when he got
Speaker 1: off the plane, so he could have got back on
Speaker 1: the plane he was already coming. Um. Then we brought
Speaker 1: in Tim Duncan, and Tim duncan at he basically said yes,
Speaker 1: you know, um, there's that rumor about me and his girlfriend.
Speaker 1: That's not completely true. Um. But John Calipari I called
Speaker 1: John and said, hey, man, I think we got Tim
Speaker 1: And he said you got him and I said yeah.
Speaker 1: He said he's probably coming, but he just needed to
Speaker 1: go back to San Antonio, UM to have one more visit.
Speaker 1: He said, oh, you lost. And I remember Cale telling
Speaker 1: you that. I was like what he said, listen, there's
Speaker 1: a ruined college. You don't let him off the campus
Speaker 1: until they signed. He never let him off the campus.
Speaker 1: And so I remember a three day pair of panic,
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. And then and he obviously went back
Speaker 1: to San Antonio, which for him was the right decision.
Speaker 1: Then we had a crazy decision and UM, you know,
Speaker 1: for a second we thought we'd get all three, but
Speaker 1: we didn't have money. But for two think about that decision.
Speaker 1: If Tim duncan had decided to come, we would have
Speaker 1: to make a choice between Tracey McGrady, Tim Duncan and
Speaker 1: Grant Hill. And back then it probably been Tim and
Speaker 1: Grant because uh, we didn't know Team Mac was gonna
Speaker 1: be my Tea Mack was at that point. So the
Speaker 1: Team Mac man I he was another one just he
Speaker 1: was a natural. UM could do everything, could score, could pass,
Speaker 1: could really defend when he wanted to. Um, you know
Speaker 1: the thing that hurt Tea Mac with us was Grand
Speaker 1: Hill got injured. You know, I never saw Grant. Really,
Speaker 1: I think the two and a half years I was
Speaker 1: with Granted, he played ten games, so they played. He
Speaker 1: only played forty seven games between the two thousand season
Speaker 1: and the two thousand and fourth seasons. So yeah, and
Speaker 1: that was that was rough because you know, we had
Speaker 1: put so much of mine into that and then you
Speaker 1: know that it's smart He's injured Kim Boy and and
Speaker 1: that changed. It really takes my future, you know, probably
Speaker 1: for the best you can look at it, because it
Speaker 1: leaves it led me to Boston. So at the end
Speaker 1: of the day, it was probably the best thing. But
Speaker 1: there's a lot of times in your life you think
Speaker 1: the worst thing is happening and it turns out to
Speaker 1: be the best best. Yeah, I want to backtrack a
Speaker 1: little bit with the for the people who don't kind
Speaker 1: of know the story. You said with Tim Duncan and
Speaker 1: his girlfriend, Team Market said the situation where it was
Speaker 1: a situation that he said, you were the team wouldn't
Speaker 1: allow family to travel and that kind of deterred Tim's decision.
Speaker 1: You said, that's kind of not how it went with it. No,
Speaker 1: it isn't, but it's it's true. Like Tim, Tim uh
Speaker 1: the firdson, we are allowing families on board, and at
Speaker 1: the time we hadn't done that at all. And when
Speaker 1: we had our story our talk, I said, no, I'll
Speaker 1: be open to that, just that every trip, um you know.
Speaker 1: And so that was not a big deal. But it
Speaker 1: was a factor. There's no doubt about that. Uh. But
Speaker 1: let me just say that Tim called me and say, Doc,
Speaker 1: I want to come, but one thing, uh, my girlfriend
Speaker 1: has to travel. I would probably, especially back then, asking
Speaker 1: what seat do you want? You want? You want? You
Speaker 1: wanted to you wanted to fly the plane too, what
Speaker 1: she needs? Tell me whatever, whatever works, you know, but
Speaker 1: that you know, I'm sure that that was a small
Speaker 1: factor because she did travel a lot. I guess I
Speaker 1: didn't even know that, uh with them. And you know, Matt,
Speaker 1: you you you played for me. I had no problem
Speaker 1: with families, very open with that. But the problem with
Speaker 1: families traveling using was the players were coming to me
Speaker 1: and say, hey, man, such and such wife is traveling
Speaker 1: too much. Hey doc, Hey, Doc, just let me say this,
Speaker 1: from being Tim Ducker's friend, you were a great judge
Speaker 1: of character. We're gonna leave it at that exact real
Speaker 1: quick before we get off this duo um in your opinion.
Speaker 1: Knowing Grant, knowing what t Mac turned into, how great
Speaker 1: could that a duel have been? If Grant could have
Speaker 1: been healthy. I think we would have been unbelieving. And
Speaker 1: then think about this. We drafted Mike Miller too, so
Speaker 1: we won rook of the year. He won rook of
Speaker 1: the Year that year, right, yeah, yeah, man. We had
Speaker 1: one game maybe I think it was one or two
Speaker 1: games where we started Grant Hill, Te Mack and Mike
Speaker 1: Miller to one, two and three, our smallest guy with
Speaker 1: six eight. Oh. I remember we played in Minnesota and
Speaker 1: just destroyed them because all three can handle, all three
Speaker 1: could play, all three can shoot. It was it was
Speaker 1: beautiful to Washington play and unfortunately it never happened. So
Speaker 1: those two together because because Grant was such an unselfish player,
Speaker 1: he need to be a score uh and Mike was
Speaker 1: such a great shooter. I think the fit would have
Speaker 1: been perfect. Well, Pete, I mean you touched on earlier.
Speaker 1: People don't realize how good Dominique was. People, unless you're
Speaker 1: a real basketball you don't realize how good Grant Hill
Speaker 1: was prior to his injury. He was pasted to be
Speaker 1: a top ten player in the history of the game
Speaker 1: comparing in the Micael Yes, you know, like I don't
Speaker 1: think anyone most like I know, like when I talked
Speaker 1: to Austin, the great example in Austin was there, but
Speaker 1: he was so young. Doesn't understand you know he remember
Speaker 1: te Mac only you know, uh because the team Mack
Speaker 1: was this guy. Uh. You know because but when you
Speaker 1: I used to say grand Grand and Austin remember was hurt. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know. So it's amazing how many of the young
Speaker 1: guys if you mentioned grand Hill, he probably think you
Speaker 1: mean the commentator on Team Tams, the killer, the killer,
Speaker 1: the killer from Detroit. That's what I padded my game
Speaker 1: after grand actually drew more fouls. Do you remember drew
Speaker 1: files like that? That grand Hill cut across the lane.
Speaker 1: I mean it was being able to cross over at
Speaker 1: full speed. It was he was a dunk on you. Uh.
Speaker 1: Two thousand three playoffs against a tough Pistons team up
Speaker 1: three one, can't close it out? How rough was that moment?
Speaker 1: Like I said, you guys have developed amazing rough. It
Speaker 1: was rough, But listen, we were eight c you know,
Speaker 1: people forget like and I have the unfortunate history of
Speaker 1: losing three three one leagues, but uh, we were in
Speaker 1: the eighth c Have you ever go and looked at
Speaker 1: those two teams, Like I always tell people on that
Speaker 1: I actually got more credit for getting up three one
Speaker 1: And that's the fact I want you one day to
Speaker 1: go look at the teams. Uh that team detried to
Speaker 1: end up winning it. Yeah, you know they were loaded.
Speaker 1: They were loaded. Um and I still to this day
Speaker 1: thing I'm the creator of Tayshawn Prince because we had
Speaker 1: them on the Wrotes and um, Tashawn Kings in game five,
Speaker 1: you know, he hadn't played much. They didn't play him
Speaker 1: much at all. And then uh Rick Carlisle puts it
Speaker 1: in Tashawn Prince and at the end of that game,
Speaker 1: like he plays really well and for game five he
Speaker 1: starts game six. By game seven he was like their
Speaker 1: go to guy. Uh. It was crazy how quickly that changed.
Speaker 1: And you know they started double team in Tea Mac,
Speaker 1: which they should and we were throwing it to you know,
Speaker 1: Andrew the Clerk and Gordon Gear said they might didn't
Speaker 1: have we didn't have a lot of places to go
Speaker 1: and we knew that going in the series. Uh, but
Speaker 1: they didn't double team him early and Team mack Tea.
Speaker 1: Max single handedly got us at three one, and then
Speaker 1: unfortunately he struggled from there, but not because of him.
Speaker 1: They just sent the whole team at him, and they
Speaker 1: dared somebody else in our team to beat him. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So next season get off to a rough start eleven games.
Speaker 1: You guys part ways looking back on that Orlando experience,
Speaker 1: what was the most frustrating part about the whole thing? Well,
Speaker 1: that we couldn't get healthy. I mean, no brand Hill.
Speaker 1: That's the bottom line. Um, we didn't traded Mike Miller,
Speaker 1: which turned out to get terrible trade because of no
Speaker 1: brand Hill. We're trying to get more players, right, So
Speaker 1: it was that thing set up the whole thing. Um,
Speaker 1: it was time to go. Honestly, and I don't say
Speaker 1: that often, but uh that that next year we started
Speaker 1: out like three or four starters are out on a
Speaker 1: on a very below average team. Um, you know, I'm
Speaker 1: being honest. It was I felt like when John Gabriel
Speaker 1: walked in my room, I was like, I hope he's
Speaker 1: telling me that he was ready. He said, yeah, I
Speaker 1: was ready, and I think they were ready to they
Speaker 1: need to go in another direction. And you know, I
Speaker 1: always look back on that. Without that start, I wouldn't
Speaker 1: be here. So you got you take a break, do
Speaker 1: a little bit of TV. What was it like getting
Speaker 1: call from the Celtics, Well, it was crazy. You know.
Speaker 1: The first day off my job, Isaiah calls me and
Speaker 1: he wants to talk about New York and I told her,
Speaker 1: I said, a new way in my coaching right now.
Speaker 1: I'm taking the rest of this year off, gonna chill.
Speaker 1: I got to do uh the NBA with with with
Speaker 1: al Michaels. Think about it. I was doing the NBA
Speaker 1: games with the great Al Michaels, who's become one of
Speaker 1: my best friends and and so that was cool. Uh,
Speaker 1: It's funny. Danny calls me and says he wants to
Speaker 1: um talk and I won't. I said, no, man, you
Speaker 1: got a coach right now. And he was like, Doc
Speaker 1: is an interim coach? I said, Dany, I just I
Speaker 1: don't want to be seen talking to you. It's just that,
Speaker 1: you know. So I was all concerned. So Danny, as
Speaker 1: Danny ainge is, He says, alright, Doc, it's an interim coach,
Speaker 1: all right, So um, why don't you let's meet okay
Speaker 1: and just talk and we'll meet in a place where
Speaker 1: like nobody will know. And I said sure, and I said,
Speaker 1: I'll do that as long as the one can see us.
Speaker 1: And I say when he said, right now, I'm at
Speaker 1: the Ritz out at Disney in a suite I went
Speaker 1: to so you know, already flown in and it was crazy.
Speaker 1: So I drive way out. We're in a room talking
Speaker 1: and he says, I want you to be the coach
Speaker 1: and I said, man, I don't. I don't know Danny
Speaker 1: that you know, if you looked at that team back then,
Speaker 1: they were that very good and he had his whole plan,
Speaker 1: like he kept talking about this plan and so I
Speaker 1: said no. Um. And then about you know, right when
Speaker 1: they fired the interim coach, he calls and say, hey, man,
Speaker 1: open your gate. That's how he called. Like he didn't
Speaker 1: call and say he wanted to talk. He tells me
Speaker 1: to open my gate. Um at my house and I look,
Speaker 1: there's an suv outside. And so I opened the door
Speaker 1: and Danny and all three owners walk in, no heads
Speaker 1: up and nothing, no heads up at all. Yeah, And
Speaker 1: I started laughing and I was like, Danny, man, you're
Speaker 1: you're an aggressive dude. He started laughing. He says, I
Speaker 1: know what I want. Um, I got a plan. Uh,
Speaker 1: you're in the plan. And so I took the job,
Speaker 1: you know, And it was it was I'm glad that
Speaker 1: I took the job, guys, because it was the Celtics,
Speaker 1: not because they had a team that you thought you
Speaker 1: could win with at that time. I took the job because,
Speaker 1: you know, and I remember saying, if the Celtics, the
Speaker 1: Lakers or the Knicks offered me a job right now,
Speaker 1: I gotta take it because those are the teams you know,
Speaker 1: for me growing up, you would have to take. So
Speaker 1: what was Danny's vision that actually became your vision after that?
Speaker 1: What was he selling you on outside of the tradition
Speaker 1: of of of being a Celtics coach that we're gonna rebuild, Um,
Speaker 1: we're gonna do it through the draft. We're gonna do
Speaker 1: it through free ag and see um, and it would
Speaker 1: take three or four years. Uh. He did say one thing,
Speaker 1: and he was right. It's it's gonna be a couple
Speaker 1: of tough years for you. Uh, but I'll protect you now,
Speaker 1: you guys know, like I know, that doesn't happen often. Uh,
Speaker 1: it really doesn't. So I I tell coaches all the
Speaker 1: time I was one of the lucky ones. Like we were.
Speaker 1: We lost eighteen games in a row. Um. We were struggling,
Speaker 1: and I had a DM every single game. And I'm
Speaker 1: not exaggerating. At every game. If he wasn't there, he
Speaker 1: would call, I'm sorry, hanging there. I'm sorry hanging there.
Speaker 1: Trust me, we're gonna get this right because they were.
Speaker 1: I mean, I was getting booed. Um. There were there
Speaker 1: were games where people were paper bags with fire, doc fire,
Speaker 1: Daniel Um and I used to come in sometimes I'm like, Danny,
Speaker 1: you're off scouting somewhere. You don't have to take this
Speaker 1: heat every day. I I gotta take it every day,
Speaker 1: every press conference. I mean, I'm getting Remember Bill Simmons
Speaker 1: was pushing to get me fired because I wasn't playing
Speaker 1: Marcus Banks. You know what, like, oh, hey, don't say
Speaker 1: excuse me, coach, I don't. I don't mean to interrupt you,
Speaker 1: but don't say that name too loud. On this show, Matt,
Speaker 1: Matt has nightmares of Marcus Banks. We can't really tell
Speaker 1: you the story, but just no, that has nightma Marcus Banks,
Speaker 1: Marcus Bank crossed him over, doctor, and he never forgot that.
Speaker 1: He's never forgot it. Matt random down and drive to
Speaker 1: herd phone that I should have the way he crossed
Speaker 1: me in our trips. But back to your story, Fuck
Speaker 1: you Jack, Back to your story. Doctor. Yeah. So that was,
Speaker 1: you know, And so it was crazy because we thought
Speaker 1: we were going to get the first one pick in
Speaker 1: that lintery with Katie Um and Greg Oldham, right, and
Speaker 1: you know, we're sitting in the room, remember in the
Speaker 1: draft when they did the lottery. You're talking about a
Speaker 1: depressing moment. You know, we lost all these games, we're struggling.
Speaker 1: We got Paul Pierce, so we know we got one,
Speaker 1: and then we get like the fifth pick, and I'm
Speaker 1: sitting around thinking. And the thing that I remember the
Speaker 1: most about that day Danny was not that Danny had
Speaker 1: a second He's already and already moved on. And he
Speaker 1: immediately said, we're gonna get Kevin Garnett. We're even go
Speaker 1: out to Kevin Garnett. And I'm thinking, all right, well,
Speaker 1: Paul and Kevin, we got something going. People don't remember
Speaker 1: that Kevin turned us down. Kevin had a no trade
Speaker 1: cause in his contract, and so we had a deal
Speaker 1: for Kevin Garnett on draft day and Kevin said no,
Speaker 1: I'm not coming you'all You're all not good enough. And
Speaker 1: so we didn't did half of that trade and went out.
Speaker 1: We got Reality. And so then Kevin caused his agent
Speaker 1: and says, wait a minute, they got Paul Pierce and Reality,
Speaker 1: I want to come to the Celtics. The problem is
Speaker 1: we gave Way half the package to see Adam, and
Speaker 1: so I'm thinking, now we're not gonna get Kevin. And
Speaker 1: I remember the day that I knew we were gonna
Speaker 1: get him. I was golfing with Michael and Danny and
Speaker 1: Johnny Joe, our equipment manager, and um, Kevin and I
Speaker 1: am the card and Kevin says, man, I just want
Speaker 1: the best young big man a belt. I don't care
Speaker 1: what else I get. And right when he said that,
Speaker 1: I was thinking, we're gonna get Kevin Garnett because Al
Speaker 1: Jefferson was the best young big man in the league.
Speaker 1: And right when he said that, I just figured I
Speaker 1: didn't know who else. I remember when Danny told me
Speaker 1: to trade. I don't remember it to this day. I
Speaker 1: just know Al was in it. And I'm telling you
Speaker 1: it felt like eight other guys like Danny gave him
Speaker 1: everybody and the only one that Danny would not give up.
Speaker 1: Was Randa you want to kid? KG said he wanted
Speaker 1: to keep that African kid. We had uh KG on
Speaker 1: the podcast, And to back up a little bit, he
Speaker 1: said he was waiting for Kobe to hit him back.
Speaker 1: He said he was back and forth. He said he
Speaker 1: really wanted to go play with Kobe, but he said
Speaker 1: Kobe wouldn't return his calls at all. And then I
Speaker 1: guess right actually, and then that's what led to you guys.
Speaker 1: But he said one thing, one of what he told
Speaker 1: us on the show was one thing. He's like, you know,
Speaker 1: y'all gotta keep that African kid. Funny, Uh, it ends
Speaker 1: up being Rondo. So how important was it to keep Rondo?
Speaker 1: From his point of view? And then what you guys
Speaker 1: saw Rondo's potential to be for that team, well, we're
Speaker 1: gonna win it without. I mean, he was the orchestrator.
Speaker 1: Um And you guys been around Rondo a little bit, right, stubborn,
Speaker 1: hard noses, competitive to do and to keep those three happy,
Speaker 1: you needed somebody that. Yeah, and it was rare when
Speaker 1: you see a guy in his second year right willing
Speaker 1: to tell Paul or Ray or Kevin. Just back up,
Speaker 1: I got this, you know, because he has supreme confidence,
Speaker 1: and so we needed a personality like Rondo uh to
Speaker 1: kind of keep those guys in check. And rund was
Speaker 1: an orchestrator man like um the best game caller, you
Speaker 1: know how they call him baseball the catchers are great
Speaker 1: game callers. Runner was the best game caller I've ever
Speaker 1: ever coached. Like he knew. He's one of the few
Speaker 1: guys I would give you know, Matt, he saw that,
Speaker 1: both of you saw that place. She'd always keep in
Speaker 1: my pocket autos. I would give it one of the
Speaker 1: Rundo before every game. And so when we came to
Speaker 1: the TAMN time out, there were oftentimes I'm about to say,
Speaker 1: like slice twist runs already total he would already know it,
Speaker 1: or he would he would look at me and we'd
Speaker 1: say something like, uh, fifteen now at the same time,
Speaker 1: like our relationship that way, you can't get better, uh uh.
Speaker 1: When you're point guard and your head coach are a
Speaker 1: lot as far as offensively and what you should be doing. Um,
Speaker 1: it's it's a powerful filler. It's rare. I don't think
Speaker 1: you get that very often. We have the luxury of
Speaker 1: interviewing Rondo KG Paul. We just interviewed Perk last week,
Speaker 1: and you know, Rondo was adamant about you know, you
Speaker 1: shaped him not only as a player, but a man.
Speaker 1: And then to hear what he did for you and
Speaker 1: be able to hold that team accountable, that's a dope
Speaker 1: for me, interview. And that's just dope because he told
Speaker 1: me how much you meant to him, and then you're
Speaker 1: telling me how much he meant to that team. And
Speaker 1: obviously it was a special moment. It was. And you know, Matt,
Speaker 1: I remember when I first started coaching, I got a
Speaker 1: lot of bad advice from other coaches, honestly, that you
Speaker 1: don't get closer players, you don't talk get involved in
Speaker 1: their lives and there. And I couldn't disagree that more.
Speaker 1: I think you do. Uh. Now, Unfortunately, you'll lose a
Speaker 1: relationship here and there because you're being honest with a guy.
Speaker 1: He's in a place doing something in his life. You know,
Speaker 1: I don't get involved in the silly stuff, but I
Speaker 1: just get involved in the man stuff, you know. Um,
Speaker 1: And I just tell them the truth sometimes and sometimes
Speaker 1: that goes well and sometimes it doesn't. But at the
Speaker 1: end of the day, Uh, it needed to be said
Speaker 1: and you know, I'm glad I've done and with Rhondo
Speaker 1: and Peru because they were so young man Like, there
Speaker 1: are times you have to get involved. Um, that's not
Speaker 1: the way you carry yourself. That's not what you do,
Speaker 1: you know. Um. And they didn't want to hear it,
Speaker 1: and you know, both of them guys. Uh. But at
Speaker 1: the end of the day, what it did, it built
Speaker 1: a relationship that will last for ever. Absolutely. So what
Speaker 1: is your message? Obviously you got you got your own
Speaker 1: Big three. Now what is your message to that team?
Speaker 1: Because obviously on paper you look incredible expectations up through
Speaker 1: the roof. What are you telling the guys at this
Speaker 1: point right now? It's it's not a really a message matter,
Speaker 1: it's work like, Um, we have worked to do we're
Speaker 1: we were so far are from being there, um and
Speaker 1: and so. But the biggest thing I would say, the
Speaker 1: one word with this group is accountability. Like this team
Speaker 1: needed to be held accountable um for not just to
Speaker 1: play for their actions for everything, uh, and not just
Speaker 1: me holding them accountable. We gotta hold each other acco.
Speaker 1: We gotta all be accountable. And I think we're not there,
Speaker 1: but we're working on it. We're much a better I
Speaker 1: love it, Um, I probably pronounced it wrong. Tell me
Speaker 1: what that word? Men? And why will it so perfect
Speaker 1: for that team? It's really perfect for everyone in everyday life.
Speaker 1: A person is a person through other people. I can
Speaker 1: be all I can be unless you are all you
Speaker 1: can be. Um, I can never be. One of the
Speaker 1: greatest words in the Boot two and it's a philosophy.
Speaker 1: It's not just a word. Desmond too too, um and
Speaker 1: Mandela used it to unify Africa, uh and and and
Speaker 1: so when you go to Africa, they lived in they're
Speaker 1: trying to live in Boot to Life, um. And one
Speaker 1: of the greatest words or mean parts in it is
Speaker 1: this thing. I can never be threatened by your good
Speaker 1: because you're good means I'm good. You guys have been
Speaker 1: on teams where when one player starts being good, another
Speaker 1: players threatened by it. You know what I mean? The clappers? Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: you said that. But you know what's funny, Matt, You
Speaker 1: noticed I didn't use the boots and stuff. Every just different.
Speaker 1: You know It's funny, Sam, Like, why won't you use
Speaker 1: in booting with this group? I said, because we don't.
Speaker 1: We don't. I'm not using that word. I'm not even
Speaker 1: using it, you know, and so that team didn't. Unfortunately,
Speaker 1: that that team bugs me to this day. You and
Speaker 1: everybody else, Doc, you and everybody else, Man, I tell you,
Speaker 1: and Matt you you probably heard about some of the meetings.
Speaker 1: Hold hold, hold, hold hold, but let's get let's get
Speaker 1: through that. We're gonna get there. Let's get through the
Speaker 1: Celtics because I want to hear about this. So after
Speaker 1: you know, you get through, you picked the word. You
Speaker 1: guys are bonding with it. What are practices like? Because,
Speaker 1: like I said, that was one thing that all four
Speaker 1: of those guys had mentioned, that practices were fucking wars.
Speaker 1: It was awesome. I gotta tell you on that word though.
Speaker 1: So I've come up with this word. I get it
Speaker 1: introduced to me by a trustee at Marquette. I'm on
Speaker 1: a board at Marquette as a trustee, and another one
Speaker 1: told this lady told me I need to study this word,
Speaker 1: and I did so I love it. So I decided
Speaker 1: the first day of practice is in Rome, and so
Speaker 1: I grabbed big baby Leon Poe. I can't remember the
Speaker 1: other rookies, but those are two of them, and we
Speaker 1: sit in my room for about two hours. It's like
Speaker 1: study all and I told him they're gonna present this
Speaker 1: word to the t and they can see that I
Speaker 1: was not messing around, like it ain't a joke, Like
Speaker 1: we're not gonna fun with this, You're gonna present this.
Speaker 1: And I gotta tell you, Liam poem baby. That next
Speaker 1: day they threw down like they they hit every point everything,
Speaker 1: And so they call in Celtics one to three and
Speaker 1: boot two and then practice starts and this Matt the
Speaker 1: first practice, guys, this is what I knew. I said,
Speaker 1: we're on the south. Paul Pierce calls one of those
Speaker 1: superstar files, you know. In practice, we're scrimmaging second unit
Speaker 1: versus first un. Paul gets filed. That's a fire. Um
Speaker 1: pose like, no, you ain't getting that, and Paul says
Speaker 1: it's a fault. You know, Paul, I want the ball,
Speaker 1: and so me and Tom Tipoteau was sitting there and
Speaker 1: tips it looks at me, you're gonna get involved as
Speaker 1: an So I want to see where this is going.
Speaker 1: There there are doing and then uh, Posey just grabs
Speaker 1: the ball to Paul's hands and inbounds it and they
Speaker 1: started going the other way and Eddie House makes it
Speaker 1: three and starts talking crap, you know, Eddie House, Tony Allen.
Speaker 1: Tony Allen then picks Ray, goes down and dumps the
Speaker 1: ball and it starts talking and Leon, I mean Leon
Speaker 1: poem baby. They were just all they're on the first unit,
Speaker 1: They're like, no, we don't care who you are. Y'all
Speaker 1: not beating us. And the second unit destroyed them that
Speaker 1: first they beat them all three uh scrimmages. And on
Speaker 1: the bus back they're all the talk because the phones
Speaker 1: wouldn't work, which I thought it helped, you know, we're
Speaker 1: in Europe. That next day, it was it was a
Speaker 1: devastation the first unit. I mean they beat the second
Speaker 1: unit so bad it was unbelievable. And every day it
Speaker 1: was back and forth and you loved it. Yeah. Man,
Speaker 1: if you got a second group, or if you have
Speaker 1: road players that have the ability to keep the stars accountable.
Speaker 1: Uh that that didn't they understand who they are. But
Speaker 1: we let you get away with Cradic. Man. You you
Speaker 1: gotta held the team and that's what we had. Posing
Speaker 1: was huge on that team because of that. What was
Speaker 1: it like having Kg and his energy around every day?
Speaker 1: Because his energy is not just on the court, it's
Speaker 1: off the court, but particularly on the court, what was
Speaker 1: it like his energy and how infectious was that? He's
Speaker 1: his hope. He changes the culture just with his actions
Speaker 1: every day. I've never seen a superstar that holds himself
Speaker 1: so accountable to the team and every day. You know,
Speaker 1: me and him have have some m f days because
Speaker 1: I was trying to take him out of practice and
Speaker 1: and he didn't want to come out of practice. Now.
Speaker 1: He used to mumble crazy stuff like warriors don't come
Speaker 1: out of practice. Warriors don't come out of practice. I
Speaker 1: was like, all right, warrior, were you just gotta sit
Speaker 1: down right now? But was no Problian've told you so.
Speaker 1: What he would do when you took him out of practice.
Speaker 1: He would start standing on the sideline and mocking what
Speaker 1: his guy was doing was in for him, Like the
Speaker 1: guy jumped, he would jump the guy sleet. He was
Speaker 1: like he was running on the side of the court
Speaker 1: like he was running in the scrimmage. And I'm sitting
Speaker 1: like this dude is crazy. Yeah, And I didn't buy
Speaker 1: Like Kevin was one of those guys from Afar. You're like,
Speaker 1: there's no way this energy is real. Come on, man,
Speaker 1: nobody's got this much energy and then after two days
Speaker 1: of practice, I was like, this dude is real. It's
Speaker 1: for real, and it was every day. I loved how
Speaker 1: he held everybody accountable, Uh, don't mess up and shoot
Speaker 1: around Matt now with KG Man and then by the
Speaker 1: end of it, which I knew was was hilarious. It
Speaker 1: Rond will start doing it like Rondo knew every play
Speaker 1: from five years ago. He knows everything and with Ronda,
Speaker 1: with me and Tom Thibodeau, he couldn't wait for us
Speaker 1: to make a mistake. Oh, he loved it. It It made
Speaker 1: his day. He would actually laugh like around if I
Speaker 1: actually said, um, you know like Matt Burns, you know
Speaker 1: he goes right now, no no, no, no, he goes
Speaker 1: a loud. I mean it made you study like you're
Speaker 1: just right. This little joker is gonna be on me.
Speaker 1: So it was a great group to go. I have
Speaker 1: a question from the outside looking in, from the three superstars,
Speaker 1: it looked like as players when we watched that KG
Speaker 1: was kind of the one that took a step back
Speaker 1: and allowed Paul to continue to be great, ready to
Speaker 1: do what he does, and he just plugged any kind
Speaker 1: of hole you guys had on any either side of
Speaker 1: the ball. Yeah, I would say that's true, even though
Speaker 1: I thought Ray probably had to give up the most shots. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, um so, but KG was the easiest in
Speaker 1: that respect, like KG would do anything. I got on KG.
Speaker 1: You more. Uh, And I hope Paulden told you the story.
Speaker 1: Before the Cleveland game one, I kept saying the word twenty.
Speaker 1: I said, so twenty, and the word is twenty, And
Speaker 1: I kept saying twenty, and everybody was looking at me.
Speaker 1: Kevin Garnett has to take twenty shots. Twenty shots. I
Speaker 1: said it like nineteen times, and finally the whole team
Speaker 1: started joining in. Kevin was pissed because you know, I
Speaker 1: kept because we needed him. I think Antoine Jamison was
Speaker 1: a power forward and that was an advantage for us
Speaker 1: um and so Kevin that first couple of games went off.
Speaker 1: But we needed him to do that because you have
Speaker 1: to get on Kevin to shoot because he was such
Speaker 1: a team player, uh that he wanted to keep the
Speaker 1: ball moving and play it right way. And I used
Speaker 1: to tell him, you know, Kevin, sometimes we're moving the
Speaker 1: ball to you, we don't want you to pass it
Speaker 1: once it hits you, you know. But he was great. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So uh sixty six wins that season. Uh, elite defense.
Speaker 1: But when you guys get to the playoffs, it's wartime
Speaker 1: seven to take the Hawks take you to seven, the
Speaker 1: Calves take you to seven. Uh. Lebron had just coming
Speaker 1: off taking his team to the finals. UM that game
Speaker 1: seven Verse Cleveland, UM, talk to us a little bit
Speaker 1: about that. That was a war. You know, our team
Speaker 1: hadn't been tested. Now, we didn't lose two games in
Speaker 1: the row that whole year, you know, so I was
Speaker 1: worried going in the playoffs. Someone asked me before the
Speaker 1: playoffs started, what's your one concern? So we had no adversity.
Speaker 1: You know, usually you have to go through something. And
Speaker 1: so that seven game series against Atlanta was exactly what
Speaker 1: we needed. Um, because we lost two games to Atlanta
Speaker 1: because of the city of Atlanta. I'm just gonna stop there.
Speaker 1: I live doc. I know city of Atlanta is undefeated. Man,
Speaker 1: It's it's unbelievable. So we learned that lesson, like, man,
Speaker 1: you gotta do your job. Then we get to defending
Speaker 1: Champs and Lebron and we get to a game seven. Man,
Speaker 1: Paul Pierce and Lebron. If you ever get time to
Speaker 1: watch a game, those two guys. They they were they
Speaker 1: were going and they were matching. It was very similar
Speaker 1: to the Dominique bird game. And they were matching played
Speaker 1: by play and the two biggest plays. One was a
Speaker 1: high school blockout on the on the jump ball, they
Speaker 1: had inside position and Lebron didn't box out Paul and
Speaker 1: Paul Dovan got it in front of his legs. That
Speaker 1: gave us the ball. And then what we call the
Speaker 1: greatest wonder of the world happened. Eddie House passed the ball.
Speaker 1: He passed it to p J Brown, and p J
Speaker 1: Brown made a big shot. UM, and think about that,
Speaker 1: how fourth that you are? P J Brown over All
Speaker 1: Star Break and retired All Star Breakers in New Orleans.
Speaker 1: And we decided to get in our car and go
Speaker 1: knock on his door and go get him. And we
Speaker 1: went and got him. So he was big for us.
Speaker 1: You get Detroit and six. What was memble about that series? Well,
Speaker 1: Detroit was the defending champs. They were the team to beat.
Speaker 1: Like going into that season, we knew for us to
Speaker 1: make it to the finals. UM, and what was crazy
Speaker 1: number one? We knew it was the Lakers. The Lakers
Speaker 1: are gonna win the West. Everyone knew that day, Like, yeah,
Speaker 1: he was on a mission, you know. So we were thinking, Okay,
Speaker 1: we we gotta beat Cleveland and we gotta go through Detroit. Uh.
Speaker 1: We had lost a home game in the playoffs, and
Speaker 1: then game two, Detroit comes in and beats us. Uh.
Speaker 1: Then we go back and beat him in game three
Speaker 1: and then close it out in game six on their floor. Um,
Speaker 1: it was funny, Matt like and and and Jack y'all
Speaker 1: both noticed. But it's funny how people set these like
Speaker 1: the Clippers. Remember everyone said you gotta get to the
Speaker 1: Western Finals. I was like, that's it, That's that's not
Speaker 1: what I want exactly. So it was funny, like I was.
Speaker 1: I was, I didn't stand on the stage. That's a
Speaker 1: like single minded championship. If you ever look back when
Speaker 1: they're giving us the silver ball, I didn't stand on
Speaker 1: the stage. That's kind of stood off because what what
Speaker 1: I wanted it so like I don't know why, but
Speaker 1: I just remember coming in and um after, you know,
Speaker 1: because you're supposed to celebrate it, because you gotta enjoy
Speaker 1: the journey. So I come in and we're all celebrating,
Speaker 1: and I say, guys, this is great, but we don't
Speaker 1: want to silver ball, I said, so let's enjoy this moment,
Speaker 1: but it ain't about the silver ball. And so I
Speaker 1: think when you're on that journey from for people on
Speaker 1: the outside, they're looking at how great that is, and
Speaker 1: that's an accomplishment, but it's not what you want. It's
Speaker 1: not what you're in it for. And so that's what
Speaker 1: that felt like to me, Like it was awesome. You know,
Speaker 1: we're going to the finals. I didn't know what to expect.
Speaker 1: You know, I was a coach that had never coached
Speaker 1: in the final. I didn't know like what to expect.
Speaker 1: I just knew it was the Celtics and it was
Speaker 1: the Lakers. And I'm not kidding, it's exactly who we
Speaker 1: wanted to be there. Like we wanted the Lakers to
Speaker 1: win the West. We wanted them to win the West.
Speaker 1: We wanted to be us. And then absolutely so now
Speaker 1: you find yourself in the two thousand and eight finals,
Speaker 1: smack dab in the middle of history. Uh. You know,
Speaker 1: obviously with the two franchises and in their winning ways
Speaker 1: playing against Kobe. I want to drop right to Game four,
Speaker 1: down twenty four and the third quarter. What was that
Speaker 1: huddle like when you guys flipped that switch at the
Speaker 1: best moment maybe in my coaching career as far as
Speaker 1: just feeling, because I really believe. I kept telling tips
Speaker 1: like the gonna win this game. I kept telling tives,
Speaker 1: I gotta find the right combination. I bet I said
Speaker 1: that word. I gotta find the right combination. Something's not
Speaker 1: fitting here, something's not working here. Um. And we kept
Speaker 1: if you watch that guy kept changing lineups, uh because
Speaker 1: we just we couldn't score uh and something I just
Speaker 1: I couldn't figure it out. And then we fell on
Speaker 1: that any house Paul Pierce. Uh. We moved Paul to
Speaker 1: the four uh and took off that game. Um. And
Speaker 1: the best part moment for me was Jack Nicholson sitting
Speaker 1: next to me when we came back because we're down
Speaker 1: twenty four, and I kept saying, you know how coaches
Speaker 1: do cut it in six, Get it to six, team,
Speaker 1: get it to twelve. When it got to six, the
Speaker 1: game was over. You can feel it. And the only
Speaker 1: thing that I remember, you know about that game that's
Speaker 1: funny is Jack Nicholson kept yelling dug duh. He just
Speaker 1: kept calling my name, and I finally turned around and
Speaker 1: he said, we are dead men walking. That momentum is serious.
Speaker 1: You know, for real fans and obviously coaches and players,
Speaker 1: you feel that ship like the casual not not understand
Speaker 1: of that momentum is everything. And you know, if you
Speaker 1: could walk a team down in those kind of situations,
Speaker 1: it's tough to come out of. Yeah. And then after
Speaker 1: that game, the thing I knew, you know, I know
Speaker 1: becauld you never know. But the first thing I remember
Speaker 1: them saying, I think it's Lamrow. We got to play
Speaker 1: physical like them. And right when I heard that, you
Speaker 1: want Umber saying that this series is over because you
Speaker 1: are what you are. Absolutely, you're not gonna change in
Speaker 1: the finals. Yeah, and you're gonna start playing like us.
Speaker 1: They're not beating us. Absolutely, that's your game. That's who
Speaker 1: we were. We had some physical just naturally. It wasn't taught.
Speaker 1: It was who they were dogs right game six, you're
Speaker 1: fortunate enough to close out at home. From pre game
Speaker 1: to the time the confetti fell, what was the energy
Speaker 1: and mindset of the team in yourself, Well, we didn't
Speaker 1: have a lot of time. If you remember the whole
Speaker 1: story that um, we both took off that next day
Speaker 1: at the same time the Laker plane takes off. Our
Speaker 1: plane is broke. Then the family plane is broke. Now
Speaker 1: come on, we're in l A A. And both of
Speaker 1: their planes take off. So we're on the ground for
Speaker 1: like five six extra hours and finally we were laying
Speaker 1: at one am on the day of the game. UM.
Speaker 1: And so it was probably one of the best decisions
Speaker 1: I made as a coach. I didn't we didn't have
Speaker 1: shot around. Think about that. For being six NBA planals,
Speaker 1: we didn't have shot around. I said, hey, guys, I'll
Speaker 1: meet in the locker room thirty five on o'clock, just
Speaker 1: like normal. And we showed up and it's the first
Speaker 1: time and probably the only time that I walked in
Speaker 1: the locker room. I said, guys, we're not gonna win
Speaker 1: the night. We're gonna win by a lot. We're gonna
Speaker 1: play the perfect game to night. This is the night
Speaker 1: that we showed him who we actually are. UM. And
Speaker 1: you know, I had the benefit of that game of
Speaker 1: being able to know we're gonna win the game nine minutes.
Speaker 1: I mean, we're a forty, right, But the funny story,
Speaker 1: you know, the funniest story in that game. We're forty
Speaker 1: or thirty eight, but like five minutes left and I
Speaker 1: hadn't subbed. UH, and Tom Thibodeau all people who never subbs.
Speaker 1: Uh comes comes up to me and it was like, uh,
Speaker 1: because he used to say, Boston man, Hey, Boston man,
Speaker 1: you're gonna You're gonna sell. And I said, when Kobe
Speaker 1: goes off the floor, I'm gonna sub. But until Phil
Speaker 1: takes Kobe out, I'm not taking our guys out, which
Speaker 1: tells you what you felt about Kobe. Yeah, we're over
Speaker 1: like this, dude. Man, I'm just know I'm not taking
Speaker 1: any chance. And then right when Phil finally subbed and
Speaker 1: we subbed everybody out, UH, and I was listen, man,
Speaker 1: you guys are one and there's no better filling than winning.
Speaker 1: It's it's like you have blood transfusion with your teammates
Speaker 1: and with with your franchise. And it's why you should
Speaker 1: play sports. It really is. It's the only reason I
Speaker 1: mean to make a living. It's one and then the
Speaker 1: other one is manage If when you got a chance
Speaker 1: to win and you don't, you're gonna look back on
Speaker 1: your career um as a player, if it's nothing other
Speaker 1: than the team is better. It's gonna always bother you.
Speaker 1: And I don't care who you are. At least for me,
Speaker 1: that's what it would have been. Absolutely. I remember, you know,
Speaker 1: we're fortunate enough to get one of Kobe's last interviews
Speaker 1: and he said that series right there to him was
Speaker 1: the series that always haunted him, that would make him sick,
Speaker 1: the fact that you guys handled him like that to
Speaker 1: win the championship. I remember talking to him right after
Speaker 1: the game and he's crying, he's got tears in his eyes,
Speaker 1: and I could feel his energy, like literally feel it.
Speaker 1: I told a couple of guys after the game, and
Speaker 1: it was not an energy of sadness. It was an injury.
Speaker 1: It was I'm gonna get you, gotta see you. It
Speaker 1: was not I told a couple of our guys and said,
Speaker 1: that was not a yeah we lost, It was I'm
Speaker 1: gonna see you, motherfucker. Yeah destroy you. You can feel
Speaker 1: it like you can feel it, and um, you know
Speaker 1: he got us back intent Uh you know, but and
Speaker 1: that was that was obviously the hardest loss for me
Speaker 1: as a coach. Uh, you know, losing Perk, having a
Speaker 1: lead in that game. Um, you know, I'm not gonna saying,
Speaker 1: but the second half is called differently. I'm over it.
Speaker 1: I'm over it. But come on, man, yeah yeah, so
Speaker 1: uh getting so getting there? I mean obviously the next season,
Speaker 1: you know, you know with with the basketball guys, you
Speaker 1: guys have a small window to you know, to repeat
Speaker 1: and win as much as you can. You guys get
Speaker 1: off to a hot start. KG goes down. What is
Speaker 1: the thought when KG goes down to February, Oh the birs.
Speaker 1: We had the best record, and I think we were
Speaker 1: like twenty three and four and three, like we were rolling,
Speaker 1: and um, I remember I see it still. Kevin was
Speaker 1: just running out of the court in Utah when no
Speaker 1: one around and grabbed the back of his knee, and
Speaker 1: I just remember Eddie Lissera Train was like, oh God,
Speaker 1: that's not good. And I was like, what do you mean?
Speaker 1: And he said, an injury when no one around is
Speaker 1: the worst injury you can have. It's a real injury,
Speaker 1: because that's a real injury. And so you know, Kevin
Speaker 1: never came back that year. Um, the fact that you know,
Speaker 1: we almost made it the final still without KG tells
Speaker 1: you about this team. Uh. But Kevin was never the same. Uh,
Speaker 1: And and I truly believe that he had a stayed healthy.
Speaker 1: We didn't want at least two, um, maybe more, but
Speaker 1: he was never the same, probably by seventy of himself.
Speaker 1: Uh from that point on. Uh, and he never had
Speaker 1: the endurance. That's the thing to Steward out to me
Speaker 1: when you returned, his endurance was never the same. Um.
Speaker 1: So you know it changed your fate. But listen, just
Speaker 1: to be even to coach Kevin was worth it. Jumping
Speaker 1: the head to to two thousand and ten. You guys
Speaker 1: are the fourth seed. Obviously a chip on your shoulder
Speaker 1: from the year before everyone counted you guys out. Um,
Speaker 1: you guys take care of business. You guys in uh
Speaker 1: Lebron's running Cleveland for a little while. UM. I remember
Speaker 1: I'm on Orlando at the time and we're sweeping through
Speaker 1: the playoffs were eight and oh we had beat this
Speaker 1: ship out of Jack and his team in the first round.
Speaker 1: We handled Atlanta, and then I remember, particularly uh Stan
Speaker 1: Van Gundy, He's just like, you know this, you know,
Speaker 1: we can't be fooled by the record, you know, I mean,
Speaker 1: they're they're they're this, they're a veteran team, they've won.
Speaker 1: We got to make some changes and we end up
Speaker 1: changing up our whole approach, offensive strategy, plan, go to
Speaker 1: so we're kind of in shambles. You guys come out
Speaker 1: and just jump on us. And you know, obviously we
Speaker 1: were able to take it to six games, but we
Speaker 1: never ever to really find our footing in that series,
Speaker 1: and that leads to the rematch in two thousand and
Speaker 1: ten between you guys and the Lakers. Talk to us
Speaker 1: about that. You talked a little bit about it, but
Speaker 1: talk to us about that. Well, we knew it was
Speaker 1: a hell of a series, and we knew they were
Speaker 1: gonna have a different mindset like the first time. Uh,
Speaker 1: in eight, we were so much more physical than them. Um.
Speaker 1: And you could tell in Game one Paul Gasaw the
Speaker 1: way he was playing. They had home court advantage. Uh,
Speaker 1: they were, they were. They were as physical as us
Speaker 1: and that probably to the but they were different. Um.
Speaker 1: And you knew it was gonna be a war. Um,
Speaker 1: and it really was. The series played out like we
Speaker 1: thought it would. You know, Um, we got up three too.
Speaker 1: I thought Game six was the game now like we
Speaker 1: were playing. Well, we got up and when Perp got hurt,
Speaker 1: um and just hurt our Like Perp was more than
Speaker 1: a player for us. You know, a certain guys, man,
Speaker 1: it's not always the numbers. It's not always the numbers.
Speaker 1: I guess would be like dreamind Green getting hurt um
Speaker 1: uh for Golden State and it just hurt our spirit. Um.
Speaker 1: Speak to his importance though, because I think Perk, I mean,
Speaker 1: we know as players what he did and what he
Speaker 1: meant to basketball. But I think you know, he takes
Speaker 1: a lot of heat now because he wasn't the guy
Speaker 1: that put up big numbers, but I know how important
Speaker 1: he was to chemistry and leadership and that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1: And I'm glad to hear you say that because you know,
Speaker 1: losing him in Game six obviously was huge for you guys.
Speaker 1: So it was huge. I mean, he was our enforcer.
Speaker 1: He allowed Kevin to beat Kevin, Like, you know, Kevin
Speaker 1: didn't have to do any of the dirty work because
Speaker 1: Perk did it all, you know for him. Uh. He
Speaker 1: was a phenomenal defender. Uh. He wrote, He did all
Speaker 1: the things you asked him to do, and he was
Speaker 1: such an intangible player. Um. I mean pers like I
Speaker 1: was honest with if I ever call you a number,
Speaker 1: he was a mistake, Like I'm not going to you,
Speaker 1: but you're gonna get it anyway. You're gonna get Um,
Speaker 1: you're gonna run the floor, We're gonna throw it to you.
Speaker 1: So Perk did everything you asked him, like he was
Speaker 1: the perfect player to have on the championship team. And um,
Speaker 1: you know he was over himself, like he didn't he
Speaker 1: wanted to win. It's what drove him. And so he
Speaker 1: wasn't worried about himself. Uh, and losing him and his
Speaker 1: toughness and his spirit. When you think about the Lakers
Speaker 1: had twenty three offensive rebounds in Game seven, you're not
Speaker 1: winning that game and we still could have won. But
Speaker 1: that also doesn't happen with Perk in there though. You know,
Speaker 1: that's not gonna happen to Purpose in there. And then
Speaker 1: Perk also is not just gonna allow some of this
Speaker 1: stuff like put somebody down. Yeah, that's just pert, you know.
Speaker 1: And so um, you know, listen, that's that was a
Speaker 1: tough one because that was a close team. Rashid Wallace
Speaker 1: was on that team. Gave us everything that he had.
Speaker 1: You know, it's one of my big regrets, Like Rashid
Speaker 1: never got in great shape that year. And you know,
Speaker 1: if I could redo that, I would have I would
Speaker 1: have made sure he was in better condition because it
Speaker 1: came down. I mean, he was such at that age
Speaker 1: where he had to be careful, you know, But it
Speaker 1: came down to us needing him for thirty five minutes
Speaker 1: and he didn't have it, Um, and and that that
Speaker 1: changed the fortune of that game. Um. Looking back on
Speaker 1: the obviously Lakers going to win that championship. Looking back
Speaker 1: on it, obviously, you know rest in peace, Code were
Speaker 1: just a little bit over a year from losing him
Speaker 1: and Gig and everyone else. What was it like competing
Speaker 1: against him? You said it in the first championship run
Speaker 1: like Funk being up thirty until Kobe goes off the floor.
Speaker 1: I'm not seven, So what was it like going at
Speaker 1: him twice in the finals. He was a perfect opponent,
Speaker 1: Like he was a guy like if you could, as
Speaker 1: a kid, could script the villain, the opponent you wanted
Speaker 1: to go against, it's him. But that's Kobe, Like he
Speaker 1: you knew if you didn't bring it, he wont Like
Speaker 1: you knew that, and so it just made you prepare.
Speaker 1: It made you getting ready and it and you guys
Speaker 1: have been around him, play with you know, it's more
Speaker 1: than just play as mental too, like you have to
Speaker 1: have them, you have to have mental toughness to play
Speaker 1: against any game that Kobe was in. Um, and you
Speaker 1: have to sustain his greatness and be okay with it. Uh.
Speaker 1: I thought Ray Allen, like Ray didn't get enough credit.
Speaker 1: Ray was had no issues guarding Kobe. You know, whether
Speaker 1: Kobe played well or not, Ray was. I'm the next
Speaker 1: day Ray showed up, was ready again. Um, and you
Speaker 1: need that tight because Kobe is Uh. Elijahlan was one
Speaker 1: they can take your soul away. Like if you don't
Speaker 1: watch it in your series with a Kobe Bryant and
Speaker 1: Michael Jordan's Lebron, they they're playing so well, it takes
Speaker 1: your goodness away, you know, and then you don't play
Speaker 1: well anymore. We saw that with with David against Elijahlan
Speaker 1: in that series with San Antonio. You know, Elijah David
Speaker 1: played good in this series, but Elijah On was so
Speaker 1: dominant that it just kind of took your spirit away.
Speaker 1: And and Ray was phenomenal. Ray. Ray showed up the
Speaker 1: next day ready to go. It was awesome. Uh. Summer
Speaker 1: two thousand and ten, UM, Lebron and Boss go to
Speaker 1: Miami to build their own Big three. What's the reaction
Speaker 1: from you guys? Uh? You know knowing you guys are
Speaker 1: getting a little bit older, knowing you guys you know,
Speaker 1: did it a different way. But they created it through
Speaker 1: free agency and talking to each other and jump And
Speaker 1: what was your guys thoughts about them being able to
Speaker 1: create their big three in Miami? It didn't bother us. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, I knew, listen, I've been around the league.
Speaker 1: I knew the clock was ticking in. It was really
Speaker 1: taking you know, you know it starts speeding up at
Speaker 1: the end. That was our clock. Um, and I really
Speaker 1: thought after ten, we may have just jumped out of
Speaker 1: that window, you know, but we were still so tough minded.
Speaker 1: Uh we got up three two and them you know, um,
Speaker 1: you know, not the first year but the second year
Speaker 1: that we played him, and that was even crazier because
Speaker 1: we were older. We didn't have a great team, man,
Speaker 1: but it was our mental toughness. Literally just almost beat him.
Speaker 1: And then that's the game to me, Lebrian Game six
Speaker 1: in the garden, Like you know, it's funny you go
Speaker 1: back and you look at your game plan, your game
Speaker 1: plan when Lebrian making threes from everyone you know, and
Speaker 1: he did, and you gotta give it to Uh. Then
Speaker 1: we went in Miami and almost beat him in that
Speaker 1: game seven. So they were just tough. You know that
Speaker 1: that team, it's a great example. You can put a
Speaker 1: team together, but you gotta become a team. UM. In
Speaker 1: the first year in Miami, they lost because it was
Speaker 1: all about those three guys. It wasn't a team. They
Speaker 1: didn't include the Chalmers and everybody else, you know, But
Speaker 1: that following year they did, and that's when they wanted.
Speaker 1: So the biggest thing with Lebron I'll share this is
Speaker 1: we played him in Cleveland, Lebron just showed up and
Speaker 1: played games. When we played him in Miami, Lebrian knew
Speaker 1: the game, he he knew our calls, he knew what
Speaker 1: we were running. So he had a change in his approach. UM,
Speaker 1: And I don't know who got to him or whatever,
Speaker 1: but it was when you saw it, you knew everybody
Speaker 1: was in trouble. So they they go on to win
Speaker 1: that UM in a tough game. Did you guys kind
Speaker 1: of know that was the beginning of the end for
Speaker 1: you guys in twelve? Yeah? Yeah, I mean it was.
Speaker 1: It was pretty obvious. UM. Danny was already talking about it.
Speaker 1: UM almost stopped coaching in eleven. I think, Um, you
Speaker 1: know at that point, what eight seven years in a
Speaker 1: row in Boston or eight years in a row in Boston,
Speaker 1: five years in Orlando, And I was thinking, man, I
Speaker 1: need a year, you know I do? And what happened.
Speaker 1: I think the lockout was a savior. It was awesome
Speaker 1: Christmas and that gave me a break. And I was
Speaker 1: so fortunate because that was awesome freshman year in college.
Speaker 1: So I got to watch every one of his games
Speaker 1: up until, you know, after Christmas, which was cool for me,
Speaker 1: and it kind of gave me some more juice. So
Speaker 1: I went back and coached that that one more year
Speaker 1: before leaving. So Ray's departure in two thousand twelve was that,
Speaker 1: uh surprise to anyone? Everyone? Did anyone know talk to
Speaker 1: us about that? You know, it wasn't a surprise. It
Speaker 1: wasn't completely wasn't surprise, but it wasn't complete surprise. I
Speaker 1: knew Ray wasn't happy. You know. Um, this is where
Speaker 1: coaching gets tough, and I think players will never understand
Speaker 1: and unless they get into this is where you got Ray,
Speaker 1: you got Rando. You gotta coach them both and like
Speaker 1: them both, but each guy wants you to like the
Speaker 1: other one more and I like the other him lass
Speaker 1: and so you're you're kind of stuff, you know, Matt.
Speaker 1: You saw a little bit about that me in in
Speaker 1: l A. And it just puts you as a coach
Speaker 1: and in such a difficult position. Um, because we wasn't
Speaker 1: getting rid of Rundo, you know. Uh. And so it
Speaker 1: just got to the point where Ray was Ray was out. Um.
Speaker 1: You know when I was pissed too, because he was
Speaker 1: going to Miami all teams of all teams not that
Speaker 1: you know, but it was funny like I got over
Speaker 1: it quick like at the end of the day, you know,
Speaker 1: we go into Miami, I get up and make sure
Speaker 1: I've talked to him, give him a hugead and talk
Speaker 1: to him since at that point, uh, and our guys
Speaker 1: getting home shoulder. Uh. And I told him after the games, man,
Speaker 1: we y'all gotta get over that, bro. This guy helped
Speaker 1: us one the title. They're still not over I was say, hey, no,
Speaker 1: what we talked to was over it. It's crazy. I
Speaker 1: tried to getting all last year proposed retirement. I tried
Speaker 1: to get involved. I had I thought I had Ray
Speaker 1: talked in the coming. Um, he was worried, you know,
Speaker 1: by getting booed, which he would not know. Fansom and
Speaker 1: then Bryan doing them got to doing their stuff again,
Speaker 1: and I just respectfully stepped back. Huh. Yeah, I said,
Speaker 1: I'm out of this, and I'm like, I gotta coach
Speaker 1: these guys here. But I do hope man that they can.
Speaker 1: They gotta get it together. They meant too much of
Speaker 1: each other. Yeah. Uh, summer thirteen, it's time to rebuild.
Speaker 1: Um KG and Paul go to Brooklyn. You get traded
Speaker 1: to the Clippers, a coach being traded. How did how
Speaker 1: did how did that trade come about for you? Well?
Speaker 1: It was crazy. If you guys remember the whole contract
Speaker 1: thing with with with Sterling. I was just listen. I
Speaker 1: was so concerned because I heard from every coach about
Speaker 1: how he backs out of deals, that he wouldn't make coaches,
Speaker 1: and so you know, I literally had in my contract.
Speaker 1: Did any contract dispute happened? David Stern had to be
Speaker 1: the mediator, you know, because what Sterling had done, I
Speaker 1: guess in the past, was tie up deals in court
Speaker 1: because he knew he was a wealthy guy, he could
Speaker 1: tie it up forever. And so like I was telling
Speaker 1: you guys, like if I was doing that, Like, what
Speaker 1: the hell was I thinking about? You know? Now? Like
Speaker 1: what was I thinking about? And what I was thinking
Speaker 1: about was that team. They were loaded. They were loaded,
Speaker 1: and they're never getting there after it all finished, and
Speaker 1: within a week we have this j J. Rennick thing.
Speaker 1: You know. Well, the first thing I was told when
Speaker 1: I took the job that we wasn't gonna keep lads.
Speaker 1: And see, I thought starting leading Chris would have been
Speaker 1: an interesting backcourt. But they were saying, no, he's gonna
Speaker 1: want to get paid, We're not gonna pay him, and
Speaker 1: so we're gonna trade him. That's the one thing you
Speaker 1: have to do. And so I said, okay, um. So
Speaker 1: we ended up doing this deal for j J. Reddick,
Speaker 1: who I thought fifty team really well. And the deal
Speaker 1: was done. J J had agreed to go to Minnesota,
Speaker 1: he backtracked to come to us. We talked him in
Speaker 1: and change in his mind. Deals done. I fly back
Speaker 1: home to Orlando, I land and Andy Roser calls me
Speaker 1: and said that the j J deal is off. And
Speaker 1: I said, what do you mean is off? Sterling change
Speaker 1: his mind? So he can't change his mind. We we
Speaker 1: just agreed to a deal. You can't do that, and
Speaker 1: and so he said, doc because and MATH been around
Speaker 1: enough to know and he's not fighting now and Sterling nothing,
Speaker 1: so it leaves you to have to fight. And so
Speaker 1: I called him up. We are literally, I'm in the
Speaker 1: garage in Orlando, going back and forth with my owner.
Speaker 1: I've never had that like and and I'm screaming, and
Speaker 1: finally I said, listen, I quit, come out. You're not
Speaker 1: going anywhere. I won't allow you to go anywhere. And
Speaker 1: I said I quit, and I hoped the photo and
Speaker 1: so I drive home and I remember getting home, Uh,
Speaker 1: tell my act at the time, I said, uh, I
Speaker 1: don't think I'm the coach of the Clippers anymore. And
Speaker 1: I called my agent and tell him the same thing,
Speaker 1: and within thirty minutes and he calls me, great job.
Speaker 1: Uh the deals done. I don't know to this day
Speaker 1: why it was. It was just done. Sterling out a
Speaker 1: problem with jin because he was white. You know, think
Speaker 1: about that one. He had a problem with Jinja because
Speaker 1: he was white. Because he was white. He didn't want
Speaker 1: to pay a white dude jack the ship was crazy. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he didn't like white players for some reason. And I
Speaker 1: was like, oh my gosh. So that was the start
Speaker 1: of my Clipper career. How was it? I mean, like
Speaker 1: I said, I'm right in the mix with you. How
Speaker 1: was it building with Chris individually and then building with
Speaker 1: Blake as well? It was just different. They both were
Speaker 1: so different. Um. You know, Chris is the most competitive
Speaker 1: guy you could be around, you know, Um and and
Speaker 1: and so you know, man, I guess if I could
Speaker 1: look back, like there was damage done already before I
Speaker 1: got there, right, Um, and I heard about it, but
Speaker 1: you know, when you get in it, you see it.
Speaker 1: But it was such a passive aggressive It wasn't it
Speaker 1: was weird. Yeah, it wasn't weird. It wasn't in your
Speaker 1: face kind of ship. It was sneaky ship. Yeah. And
Speaker 1: that's what killed me. Like because you would have a
Speaker 1: talk with him both, everything's good. You would talk to
Speaker 1: them both, everything's good. It's a difficult group because they
Speaker 1: both were extremely competitive. Um. They definitely had something you know,
Speaker 1: Um I had. There was things that had happened before
Speaker 1: I got there that I didn't know. Um. And you
Speaker 1: know that you learned that. My job is to come
Speaker 1: in and try to get them to see past themselves.
Speaker 1: And you know, y'all you both have been on team.
Speaker 1: You don't have to love each other. You just have
Speaker 1: to figure out a way of giving each other room
Speaker 1: to play co exists and respect each other co exists.
Speaker 1: I mean Bill Russel when I was in Boston said
Speaker 1: the deepest thing, Like he said, if I'm the only
Speaker 1: one they can be great on the team, you can
Speaker 1: never win, right. I have to be great and give
Speaker 1: everybody enough room so they can be great in their
Speaker 1: space too. And that was like it just you know
Speaker 1: it was there was so passive aggressive, like I would
Speaker 1: have loved whatever. Whenever somebody on any team you don't
Speaker 1: like each other right at that moment, talk about it,
Speaker 1: get it out, call them a m f YEA. Our
Speaker 1: ship was Our ship was more sneaky subtles. It was
Speaker 1: just it would it would it never to a head.
Speaker 1: But you can tell good times bad times. There was
Speaker 1: always something, some kind of friction there that would hold
Speaker 1: us back. You know what for me as a coach,
Speaker 1: because my my job, Matt is um I feel like
Speaker 1: part of your job is to be a problem solved, right,
Speaker 1: And so it was difficult for me with that because
Speaker 1: you couldn't figure out what the problem was. Like it
Speaker 1: was the conversations that I had individually, as a group,
Speaker 1: as a team. You know, it was just there was
Speaker 1: always this cloud there. Would you agree with that, absolutely,
Speaker 1: but I felt like it was combustible something anytime it
Speaker 1: can blow up. But what I saw was it was
Speaker 1: black from the outside looking in because I was with
Speaker 1: the Lakers before, so it was Blake's team, and Blake
Speaker 1: kind of put him on the map. And then CP
Speaker 1: came and it was automatically handed to CP. So I
Speaker 1: know how that kind of caused some stuff. And then
Speaker 1: Deandre's rise. DeAndre was just the fun kicking homeboy, great rebounder, blocker,
Speaker 1: did all the dirty work. And then DeAndre started getting
Speaker 1: some shine too, So now there was three shining parts
Speaker 1: on our team, you know what I mean. And I
Speaker 1: just think that was for some reason that was an issue.
Speaker 1: I kept telling DJ, you be great. Stop waiting, you know,
Speaker 1: I kept saying, stop waiting, bro, like you should be
Speaker 1: Bill Russell. And and so you remember Matt I declared
Speaker 1: him the defensive captain of the day, and you know,
Speaker 1: like otardly, you think that's a great movement. It was.
Speaker 1: It really helped DJ, but it also gave DJ a
Speaker 1: voice and the problem with that was now you know,
Speaker 1: Chris has a voice, and Blake has a voice, and
Speaker 1: DJ has a voice, and so it was so interesting
Speaker 1: that group. I remember, you know, Dave Severance, who who
Speaker 1: was there before I was there. So he I remember
Speaker 1: late in the year the first year, because I said, man,
Speaker 1: and we gotta get this team together. We gotta get
Speaker 1: to and and I remember him saying, Doc, it's eighty
Speaker 1: times better than last year. And when he said that,
Speaker 1: It's scared the hell out of me because I'm thinking,
Speaker 1: if you think this is better. But I will say
Speaker 1: this about that team that first year, Matt, we were ready.
Speaker 1: We got to that Oklahoma series, that game that that
Speaker 1: we threw away like literally, um, we played at a
Speaker 1: point in that game which was unbeatable, and that loss
Speaker 1: open up all the wounds again. I mean, Chris has
Speaker 1: been he's been the perfect player. Just had three of
Speaker 1: the worst minutes ever ever. I mean even even things
Speaker 1: that people didn't know, like we're supposed to file, you remember,
Speaker 1: uh uh he didn't file, and then they got that's
Speaker 1: how Durrant got that there were more mistakes made than
Speaker 1: the people even knew, you know, and um, and then
Speaker 1: he was crushed. He was crushed. Um, but I don't
Speaker 1: know what it did. Like, I remember that next day
Speaker 1: in film I had I was gonna show the film,
Speaker 1: so we just go over it. And I walked in
Speaker 1: and y'all on me. You probably noticed to this moment um.
Speaker 1: I walked in the room and Chriss got tears in
Speaker 1: his eyes. I didn't even realize. And so I walked
Speaker 1: in and we're gonna watch film, and I motioned to
Speaker 1: our video guy, no film, M I couldn't show it.
Speaker 1: I you know, I just felt like, and this is
Speaker 1: may go a bad place. That was the start of
Speaker 1: the fall. Yeah, I want to back up real quick
Speaker 1: though a mad man. I was there two weeks and
Speaker 1: I felt it. Yeah, I felt and I was on.
Speaker 1: I was that short, you know, I would have stayed
Speaker 1: along with Remember Chris Paul broke his hand, so I
Speaker 1: had to make a trade to bring another point guard in.
Speaker 1: But I felt at the time now and and this
Speaker 1: time I was there. It seemed like the captives was
Speaker 1: j J and DJ, because everybody got along with those
Speaker 1: two guys, but the other two stars were basically spaced apart,
Speaker 1: and there were a lot of guys like having to
Speaker 1: play like double agents trying to work both sides. You know,
Speaker 1: I was, I know I was. I was the mender
Speaker 1: between the way Chris because sometimes I love Chris. We're
Speaker 1: still great friends. He lives around the corner, our kids
Speaker 1: are best friends. But Chris is old school, so the
Speaker 1: way he comes off is sometimes abrasive, but he means well.
Speaker 1: But with sometimes with DJ and Blake, I'd be like, well, Chris,
Speaker 1: all Chris is trying to say and I would just
Speaker 1: frame it a different way. They're like, all right, and
Speaker 1: go do it. You know what I mean? So it
Speaker 1: was just yes, but what but what? But but you know,
Speaker 1: you can agree what he was trying to get across
Speaker 1: was right. His delivery was just off and that was
Speaker 1: the part. So back in the day that wouldn't have
Speaker 1: been an issue because you can yell, cuss, do what
Speaker 1: every But it was different with this next crop of guys,
Speaker 1: like you had to kind of almost talked to him
Speaker 1: a certain way. And I was just like, come on, y'all,
Speaker 1: what the like? Uh? You know when I played I
Speaker 1: Walk in the Locker Room down made you sucked in
Speaker 1: that bro? All right, we win without you know, and
Speaker 1: you tell me you're right, You're right? You know, that's
Speaker 1: how we talked to me from but that also was
Speaker 1: pre cell phone, pre everybody social media. Yeah, I want
Speaker 1: to I want to backtrack real quick, doc Um and
Speaker 1: touch on the Sterling situation. Obviously, we're in the playoffs
Speaker 1: and and like you said, we were ready that season,
Speaker 1: and we were the team that, you know, the last
Speaker 1: team that knocked the Warriors off before they went on
Speaker 1: their runs. So we're in the midst of the playoffs
Speaker 1: and the Sterling situation happened. And I don't know if
Speaker 1: you get enough credit for the way you handled that ship.
Speaker 1: That ship was obviously couldn't have come in a worse time.
Speaker 1: We feel like we're a championship caliber team, and it
Speaker 1: just puts us in a terrible position. Walk us through
Speaker 1: that evening and the next day, Um, well you were
Speaker 1: telling us and and and how we're gonna figure this
Speaker 1: out as a team. And I was a gut punch,
Speaker 1: uh because we were rolling. We were rolling, and you
Speaker 1: know what, uh Andy rose again like and and stuff
Speaker 1: y'all found out about. He tells me this video is
Speaker 1: coming out, but it's not a big deal. Um, and
Speaker 1: so uh he says, I have it if you want
Speaker 1: to watch it, but it's not a big deal. So
Speaker 1: I'm like, it's not a big deal. I'm not gonna
Speaker 1: watch it. Seth comes running into our coaches meeting Matt
Speaker 1: five minutes before it's gonna come out on ESPN. It's
Speaker 1: a doctor. You gotta come watch this video. And so
Speaker 1: while I was watching, it was airing. It was too late,
Speaker 1: and I'm I'm pissed, Matt, like I am seething, probably
Speaker 1: the most upset I've ever been, like coaching a team
Speaker 1: at someone. So I'm seething, and Seth is there. He's like,
Speaker 1: you gotta calm down before you call. And so I
Speaker 1: call Andy twenty five times before me. He wouldn't to
Speaker 1: the damn phone. Um. So, when I walk in that
Speaker 1: meeting with you guys, I hadn't talked to anybody. I
Speaker 1: had no one to talk to, and so, and you know,
Speaker 1: like I didn't know what to do, Like I didn't
Speaker 1: know should I wear I didn't want to wear my
Speaker 1: Clipper shirts. I called a couple of coaches as a man,
Speaker 1: I don't know if we should wear a shirt, but
Speaker 1: if we don't wear it, like so, I mean, think
Speaker 1: about the decisions. We're talking about a damn shirt. But
Speaker 1: on the fly though, like you said, in the middle
Speaker 1: of a player on the fly, like I said, we
Speaker 1: had no preparation for none of this ship on the fly.
Speaker 1: And then I walk in with my shirt. Y'all got
Speaker 1: y'alls off, and y'all y'all shitty, like y'all who the
Speaker 1: whole team is is? You can see guys got their
Speaker 1: arms folded while I'm talking. And that's when I finally
Speaker 1: have to say, Bro, you listen, y'all. I'm Glenn Rivers
Speaker 1: from Maywood, but I'm mad. And the only thing I wanted, man,
Speaker 1: and I swear it like God, was guide me. Like
Speaker 1: the first thing I thought was about all y'all you
Speaker 1: dj was please don't let them say something that then
Speaker 1: they become the story. Um, because the worst thing and
Speaker 1: and like you guys felt this a little bit in
Speaker 1: the George Floyd thing, Stephen, you definitely would do this. Um,
Speaker 1: people react more on the response you act on a
Speaker 1: guy who actually did the crime. Like we're stuck. Everybody
Speaker 1: wanted to know what the Clippers were gonna do, And
Speaker 1: I kept thinking the Clippers, but Donald Stirling, why are
Speaker 1: we worried about what we're gonna do let's focus on
Speaker 1: Donald Sterling. And so that thought kept telling me, let's
Speaker 1: have one voice. I'll be your voice. Whatever you guys
Speaker 1: tell me to say. Remember, you guys sit there and
Speaker 1: basically gave me what I was supposed to say, and
Speaker 1: so you guided me. Um, And that was really important
Speaker 1: because I didn't know what to say. I didn't know
Speaker 1: exactly what to say. UM. And I remember when we
Speaker 1: did that, and we got on the bus and maybe
Speaker 1: we went to Oakland to that to San Francisco univers
Speaker 1: San Francisco. Ye did you? And I've never asked you this.
Speaker 1: I knew it was a big deal, but I didn't
Speaker 1: think it was that big of a deal. Like I
Speaker 1: didn't because I yeah, because I I mean, I shared
Speaker 1: my story. I've been through real racism, you know, my
Speaker 1: school vandalized by the KKK, burning down buildings. To me,
Speaker 1: it was just another idiot who got caught talking bad
Speaker 1: about black people. But like I said, for those who
Speaker 1: haven't experienced anything like that, like some of the guys
Speaker 1: took it hard. But to me, it wasn't like and
Speaker 1: you know, and you and I had the same We
Speaker 1: were never playing for this dude anyway. We were never
Speaker 1: playing for Sterling. We were playing for us. Point to
Speaker 1: you guys, like we're growing up talking about winning the title.
Speaker 1: Don't start the wather. You're not dream right. We weren't
Speaker 1: thinking about that food, so to me. But when we
Speaker 1: pulled up and you've remember seeing all those trucks, it
Speaker 1: was crazy. I was shocked, Like I thought it would
Speaker 1: be a big story for ESPN in sports. It was
Speaker 1: a world story. It was a world story. When we
Speaker 1: walked in that gym and I saw like Tom Broke
Speaker 1: call and I'm like, oh man, you remember we y'all
Speaker 1: giving me what to say. We're Suppo was supposed to
Speaker 1: do it right away, and I went over in the
Speaker 1: corner the window. For a half hour, I had to
Speaker 1: gather myself. I was like, oh my goodness, Um, I
Speaker 1: gotta make sure I have I gotta represent these dudes.
Speaker 1: I got what what they just said. I gotta get
Speaker 1: because y'all we wrote it down. I didn't even really
Speaker 1: looked at it that much on the bus because I thought,
Speaker 1: you know, you know, sage, Steve is gonna ask me
Speaker 1: one question and we're off back to basketball. And then
Speaker 1: when I pulled up and I said there were hundreds,
Speaker 1: I was like, oh my gosh, this is big. This
Speaker 1: is bigger than I ever thought. Um. And the one
Speaker 1: thing I did know, I don't think I've ever shared
Speaker 1: with you this, Um, so you do know, like a moment.
Speaker 1: We got through that day and then that game. You
Speaker 1: remember I walked out. It was like three seconds left
Speaker 1: on the shot clock when I came out to the floor.
Speaker 1: The game started before Golden State because Donald Sterling was
Speaker 1: coming to the game. You had to try to put
Speaker 1: that fire out. Yeah, And so me and Andy are
Speaker 1: having a literally an MP session on the phone. I'm sweating.
Speaker 1: I'm in the hallways standing by the tunnel, yelling like
Speaker 1: he's not coming. He's not coming to this game. He
Speaker 1: cannot show up to this game. And finally, so when
Speaker 1: I walked out, I didn't know if he was coming
Speaker 1: to knock. So I'm nervous, thinking this is gonna be nuts. Um.
Speaker 1: And I turned to one of the coaches and he said,
Speaker 1: what do you think. I said, We're gonna lose and
Speaker 1: it's gonna be bad. Well, I mean, our mind was
Speaker 1: on everything but playing at that time. We had the world.
Speaker 1: We had, we had the world trying to tell us
Speaker 1: what we should do. Boycott, sit out, don't play the
Speaker 1: rest of the series. We're like, hold on, like we
Speaker 1: and I understand where everyone thought their in opinion, But
Speaker 1: like we said before we started, we felt like we
Speaker 1: had a championship caliber team, So we're not gonna let
Speaker 1: that come crashing down because of an idiot ass owner.
Speaker 1: Like our goal is still although we probably shouldn't have
Speaker 1: said we should have said the way they whipped our asks,
Speaker 1: we should have just said, you guys can have this game,
Speaker 1: We'll see you back in l A. That would have
Speaker 1: been in retrospect. I know the saved us some time
Speaker 1: because they jumped on us. Um. It was just it
Speaker 1: was one of those days where there's no way. And
Speaker 1: then you remember we got on the bus and Shelley
Speaker 1: Servings on the bus and oh my god, I don't
Speaker 1: know yeall did it that day for me? Like it
Speaker 1: was when the day was already bad. We just got
Speaker 1: blowing out fighting with people about not letting the owner
Speaker 1: come to a game. And then I get on the
Speaker 1: bus and Shelley is sitting on the other side. I
Speaker 1: was like this, this this gotta be one of the
Speaker 1: worst days. Um, And we got through it, Like I thought,
Speaker 1: you guys Handlewood really well, each guy got one and
Speaker 1: it was funny. Mat if you remember, you would get
Speaker 1: on you see Shelley, then your eyes would go to
Speaker 1: me and I would like just kind of you know
Speaker 1: what am I supposed to do? Because we lost, But
Speaker 1: at the same time, like he really but then I
Speaker 1: was at the same time kind of had the wherewithal
Speaker 1: that no, and they were already on the rocks. But
Speaker 1: she still was a reputation to him, even though she
Speaker 1: wasn't as deep in I like Shelley personally, um, but
Speaker 1: Donna was a monster. But anyway, so we go back
Speaker 1: to l A for the next game, and all remember
Speaker 1: all of our sponsors were blocked out like they had
Speaker 1: black pretty much all over the arena because all of
Speaker 1: our sponsor did backed out on us before the game.
Speaker 1: But the one thing I remember was the employees were
Speaker 1: gonna quit. Yeah, you got to talk to them that day, right,
Speaker 1: didn't you have to go down there? Yeah? We go,
Speaker 1: I mean shoot around him. I should be going home
Speaker 1: and driving town. I have a meeting with the employees
Speaker 1: at the Staples Center because any Rhodes are when they
Speaker 1: wall and so they wanted to quit, and it was
Speaker 1: the first time that I actually got emotional. I actually
Speaker 1: called Adam like literally in tears, like, bro, some y'all
Speaker 1: gotta do something here, someone's gotta help me. Like I'm not.
Speaker 1: I'm a coach, I should not be like T shirt
Speaker 1: They were asking me what colored T shirts for the
Speaker 1: game tonight and should we play music? And I was
Speaker 1: and it was nuts. I'm trying to win a game
Speaker 1: and get our guys like. That's also for me. The
Speaker 1: first time I realized I couldn't imagine for y'all how
Speaker 1: strong social media was because we wouldn't. I was old enough,
Speaker 1: Like I didn't deal with it, y'all had to. I
Speaker 1: was watching it live like you guys were getting Jesse
Speaker 1: Jackson was reaching out to you. Al was Sharpton. Uh.
Speaker 1: I was like, man, this these guys got so much
Speaker 1: on their shoulders. That was really the beginning of the
Speaker 1: social media movement, you know, where players started using social
Speaker 1: media for stuff outside of showing off whatever you were
Speaker 1: trying to show off. That's you know, Lebron took a
Speaker 1: huge stand, you know, after after the fact, you know,
Speaker 1: we kind of started saying we had to say. But
Speaker 1: that was really the beginning of social media and That's
Speaker 1: where a lot of the heat came from. But you
Speaker 1: guys should have did this. You guys will sell out.
Speaker 1: You guys are this, this and that. We're like, hold on, man,
Speaker 1: what the hell? But anyway, it's good. Yeah, so we
Speaker 1: we we get through it and we get to that
Speaker 1: game and beaton Golden State in game seven. It's satisfying, yeah,
Speaker 1: because they were good. We're the only ones that knew
Speaker 1: it though. It was like, no, we knew they were
Speaker 1: all the way. We knew they were next, and it
Speaker 1: was like, we had to do what we're supposed to
Speaker 1: do now because they were coming for sure. You can
Speaker 1: feel it. You can see that team. They were coming.
Speaker 1: So yeah, we come back to a great ovation. Uh
Speaker 1: you know, end up winning the series and seven lose
Speaker 1: to Okay, see Um the bomber era Um loved his energy.
Speaker 1: He came in with the right focus, and we really
Speaker 1: stopped we were heading in the right direction. But to
Speaker 1: be honest with you, everything was perfect, but the chemistry
Speaker 1: between the people who were most portshit. It was the
Speaker 1: guys we still couldn't get. We couldn't you know. The
Speaker 1: elephant was in the room, and he continued to get
Speaker 1: bigger and it was bigger then and you know by
Speaker 1: then it was way bigger. You know, it wasn't i'd
Speaker 1: still which was crazy, but we all knew it. And
Speaker 1: you know a lot of stuff transpired. But you know,
Speaker 1: we get to that Houston series, UM, and you know
Speaker 1: I still say this, if Chris didn't get hurt against
Speaker 1: San Antonio, UM, we were at least playing Golden State
Speaker 1: in the Western Finals, you know, because Chris was never
Speaker 1: the same either. UM. But that whole like, guess, listen
Speaker 1: that that's one of you know, people ask me often
Speaker 1: like what was what are your greatest success what is
Speaker 1: one of your failures? And I always said one of
Speaker 1: my failures. I could not figure that out. Maybe it
Speaker 1: couldn't be figured out, but I could not, like you
Speaker 1: guys saw it. I tried so many different things and
Speaker 1: it was just not going in as a coach. As
Speaker 1: a coach that that that have had locker rooms that
Speaker 1: you've been able to bring together, Boston being a prime example.
Speaker 1: What do you feel like the limit would have been
Speaker 1: to that team if we were all on the same page.
Speaker 1: I think, you know, you never can see you'll winning title.
Speaker 1: But that first year with Oklahoma, that that year we're
Speaker 1: playing in the finals, and I have no doubt about that. Uh.
Speaker 1: Now you don't ever know who's gonna win and all that,
Speaker 1: but we would have been a finalist, agree, you know,
Speaker 1: you know, but but that is part of being a champion,
Speaker 1: is not having that crap and and and so it
Speaker 1: just shows you you guys have been around the game.
Speaker 1: Just think how many teams have not one because the
Speaker 1: crap like that, right, and it's such a waste man
Speaker 1: like and over what, um, you know, if you win
Speaker 1: it as everybody's champion, everybody's whose name? Whose name is
Speaker 1: coming up fast? Whose team it is? Like it was?
Speaker 1: It was? It was a nightmare. Um. I want to
Speaker 1: jump ahead a little bit. What was it like? Um?
Speaker 1: Because I was actually the first person to address him
Speaker 1: when he came because I knew it was gonna be tough.
Speaker 1: What was it like having your your son coaching your
Speaker 1: son on a professional rank? You know that was hard.
Speaker 1: I didn't want to do it. Um. You know. Uh,
Speaker 1: Dave will who was the GM at the time he
Speaker 1: started it, but get before the year started, he said, Man,
Speaker 1: Austin is just a He's a diamond out the are
Speaker 1: that uh not playing well? We can get him for nothing,
Speaker 1: and he can really help this team. And I kept saying, well,
Speaker 1: that made me true, but no, that it just doesn't
Speaker 1: work because I think to do it, to make it
Speaker 1: work easy, he has to be the best frier the
Speaker 1: team or the worst player on the team. You know,
Speaker 1: if you're in the middle, it's a tough one. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And that's where he was at. And you know, he
Speaker 1: was a role player. And you know, whoever he played,
Speaker 1: if he played minutes and then somebody just as close
Speaker 1: to him, I think they should be playing. And obviously
Speaker 1: it's because he's my son, you know. Um, so it
Speaker 1: was very difficult. And then Austin is uh, he's got
Speaker 1: that prickly tough his personality, Austin tough like he didn't
Speaker 1: given in you know what I mean, you Ron, It's
Speaker 1: what makes him a good player, but it also what
Speaker 1: on our team made it worse sometimes because he was
Speaker 1: so uh hit strong. So when you put all that together,
Speaker 1: it did work at times. I mean the Houston series,
Speaker 1: should he won a game for us, you know, but
Speaker 1: it didn't work because we already had a locker room
Speaker 1: that was infected. So the only you couldn't bring in
Speaker 1: any other issues um, and by doing that, it just
Speaker 1: brought in another issue. I will say this after it
Speaker 1: was all done, and now Austin and I when we
Speaker 1: talk about it, it Uh, for us, it was awesome.
Speaker 1: You know, it wasn't at the time. But now when
Speaker 1: you look at it, the fact that I coached my
Speaker 1: son and the NBA, Yeah of course. Yeah, Bro, you
Speaker 1: look back at that like it's never been done, and
Speaker 1: uh it was. We had some amazing moments together. Um.
Speaker 1: You know, the day of trading him might have been
Speaker 1: the hardest one. You know. I remember calling him, you know, listen,
Speaker 1: calling the player for me to tell him they were
Speaker 1: being traded. And sorry, no matter who he is, because
Speaker 1: I do get try to have a room, I do
Speaker 1: get closer. I was that I was at Roscoe's when
Speaker 1: you called me, Doc, You're happy. I knew I was coming, Doc,
Speaker 1: I knew I was coming. I knew what was coming.
Speaker 1: So but it's funny. Austin is great man, Like he said, Dad,
Speaker 1: when you upset about it's time for me to go. Man,
Speaker 1: I need to need to show the like comparing my
Speaker 1: own I'm good, thank you, Like he was great. I
Speaker 1: wasn't one hurting. Yeah, you know, and he was probably
Speaker 1: sicking me by then anyway. So it was good, Matt,
Speaker 1: But it was hard. It was really hard. Um it's
Speaker 1: it's a hard thing to do. And I would just
Speaker 1: say this unless if if your player, if he's the
Speaker 1: best player, I don't think it'd be that hard. But
Speaker 1: when you're in the middle, it makes it hard. Fast
Speaker 1: forward a little bit. The Chris Paul trade brings you
Speaker 1: guys Lou Williams, Montres, Harold and a few other pieces. Um. Yeah,
Speaker 1: how how tough was you know you talked about speaking
Speaker 1: on Austin trading him. How tough with it to trade Chris? Well,
Speaker 1: it wasn't tough because we didn't trade him. You know,
Speaker 1: he decided he wanted to go, and I was this
Speaker 1: he wanted to go, But I got it. Like one
Speaker 1: thing I've always understood Matt uh and Jack because I
Speaker 1: probably I was a player. When players want a league, man,
Speaker 1: I didn't fight that, like if they if they think
Speaker 1: they can win it somewhere else. What what's wrong with
Speaker 1: me trying to Like that's something that I've never fought like, Um,
Speaker 1: it's I'm one of the few guys coaches I believe
Speaker 1: in free agency. I love the players. Man, if you can,
Speaker 1: if you can control control, you know, but once you
Speaker 1: get on that team didn't be coached. That's the only
Speaker 1: thing that I would say, you know, and so, um, yeah,
Speaker 1: I like so for christ it was tough because he
Speaker 1: left and um, you know, so I didn't like that
Speaker 1: he laughed and how he laughed, but he laughed and
Speaker 1: and so that basically threw us into you know what,
Speaker 1: we're gonna sign Blake or not? If we signed Blake,
Speaker 1: but we keep them or not. Uh, it changed our
Speaker 1: whole plans because we thought we were gonna get Keith CP.
Speaker 1: We thought we're gonna end up with Blake and end
Speaker 1: up with Gal I think, and we so we had
Speaker 1: a pretty good plan and it kind of all fell
Speaker 1: through because Chris one the league. Yeah, And honestly, it
Speaker 1: wouldn't worked anyway because Chris Blake. Things still wouldn't have
Speaker 1: gone away. That wasn't worked regardless, that wasn't changing. Um,
Speaker 1: talk to us what went down for you guys to
Speaker 1: pull off something even crazier than keeping that team together,
Speaker 1: which was getting Kawhi Leonard and and Paul George to
Speaker 1: come join you guys, that was the best plan ever. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, Uh, Lawrence Frank Coop, who, in my opinion,
Speaker 1: does not get enough credit for it. Um worked tirelessly
Speaker 1: every day. Um he would have cry means you know
Speaker 1: all season Kawai means, um, you know, just monitoring him,
Speaker 1: where is he at, what he's doing? Um. You know, honestly,
Speaker 1: because I've been through so many free agencies where you
Speaker 1: signed guys, the deeper Toronto went, the less I thought
Speaker 1: we're gonna get him. You know, to think a guy
Speaker 1: that would leave a team that led a team to
Speaker 1: a championship was unbelievable. Yeah, Like, so I didn't until
Speaker 1: you know, and then after they won, when you start
Speaker 1: hearing because you know, the lead speaks if you listen,
Speaker 1: you know, and all you kept hearing is he's still
Speaker 1: gonna leave. He's still gonna leave. And so right when
Speaker 1: I started hearing that again, then I felt like, well,
Speaker 1: he's gonna leave, he's come to us. We're gonna get him,
Speaker 1: you know. Uh, we're gonna have the best sales pitch,
Speaker 1: We're gonna have the best thing. Um. And to me,
Speaker 1: when I felt like we're gonna get him up, it
Speaker 1: was late. But when he decided to take the meetings
Speaker 1: with us, in the Lakers, and he told the Lakers,
Speaker 1: the Lakers wanted to have this big thing set up
Speaker 1: at their practice facility and all this stuff, and he
Speaker 1: wouldn't do it. He would only they had to meet
Speaker 1: him in his hotel room. But for us, he wanted
Speaker 1: to meet me at my house. And so when I
Speaker 1: you know, I'm thinking, if he's come into our house
Speaker 1: through my house, Um, he was telling me. But where
Speaker 1: I was impressed with him is the knowledge he had
Speaker 1: on the lead and even on our team, because I
Speaker 1: asked him, um, what do you think about our team?
Speaker 1: And when about going through names, he point blank said
Speaker 1: who he liked, who he did like, like I was.
Speaker 1: I was. I was shocked at his opinions and his knowledge. Uh.
Speaker 1: And then you know the guys that he wanted. He
Speaker 1: basically told us I want to come, but we're not
Speaker 1: good enough. And so that told us we had to
Speaker 1: go out and get someone. Uh and b G was
Speaker 1: the guy. Uh. You know, he named a couple of
Speaker 1: other guys and PG was the number one guy. Now
Speaker 1: quickly fast forwarding into the bubble Um obviously a crazy
Speaker 1: experience for everyone. We've talked to several guys who played
Speaker 1: in it, you guys were able to you know, obviously,
Speaker 1: muster up get through it. Um take us to that
Speaker 1: Dinner series because I was someone along with when we
Speaker 1: had PG on earlier. We kept thinking, Okay, they got
Speaker 1: one game, will win the next game. You know, I
Speaker 1: was thought for the first time, I was happy to
Speaker 1: see I'm like, yo, I fought my ass off to
Speaker 1: try to, you know, help this team. Put put a
Speaker 1: banner up, and we took pride in it, and I
Speaker 1: finally saw, like it look like, okay, man, they finally
Speaker 1: got the team that looks like it's going to get
Speaker 1: over the hump. And then you know, another collapse to Denver.
Speaker 1: What were the issues or what do you felt like
Speaker 1: you felt like were the problems with that in another
Speaker 1: three one drop, Well, the issues were the whole thing.
Speaker 1: The bubble was a disaster for us. Let's just keep
Speaker 1: it real like it was. Um uh. We had guys
Speaker 1: who didn't want to go from the beginning of it.
Speaker 1: We had guys that left the bubble. You know, I mean,
Speaker 1: come on, guys like we we It was such a
Speaker 1: tough Like I was so frustrated in the bubble because
Speaker 1: you know, and some of them wasn't you know, Trance's
Speaker 1: grandmother died and so he was gone for thirty days,
Speaker 1: and so what do you think about it? In the
Speaker 1: middle of the playoffs, we got Pat Beverley on a
Speaker 1: five minute in a row restriction. Couldn't buy more than
Speaker 1: five minutes in a row. UM. Transfer was at one
Speaker 1: point at twenty two minutes. Louis at like twenty four minutes.
Speaker 1: We're in the playoffs, um, and and you know it
Speaker 1: just we didn't. We never came together. UM. If you
Speaker 1: watch us right before the bubble, we were rolling and
Speaker 1: I thought, man, we're playing great, and then this season
Speaker 1: shuts down. UM. And I really believe, like you know,
Speaker 1: PG doesn't go through training count MRS the first with
Speaker 1: fifteen games plays like six games and MRS another month. Um.
Speaker 1: Up until the bubble, PG and Kauiet had two practices
Speaker 1: on the same floor, and so I was like, really,
Speaker 1: I was uncertained by it, Like, man, we've had no
Speaker 1: time together as a group. UM. And Denver like, listen,
Speaker 1: we're up three one, we're playing great. In the last
Speaker 1: that next game, UM, we gotta win that game, guys,
Speaker 1: Like listen, Um, we stopped playing in that game. Let's
Speaker 1: keep it real and you know. Um, I always sleep
Speaker 1: like I always start with me what could have done differently?
Speaker 1: Of course there's some kind of adjustments you could have made,
Speaker 1: I guess, you know, but what we were doing up
Speaker 1: until that point was pretty good, you know. And then
Speaker 1: losing that series, you know, losing game seven, like you
Speaker 1: I don't know, like you know, you guys have been
Speaker 1: in games before the game you feel good or bad,
Speaker 1: but you're you're rarely right, you know what I mean? Like,
Speaker 1: you know, man, we're ready tonight, and then you go
Speaker 1: out and you're not ready. Um. Going into Game seven,
Speaker 1: I thought we were ready all I really did, um,
Speaker 1: and we were awful. We couldn't make like when you
Speaker 1: look at statistically and I don't like analytics, but it
Speaker 1: was our second best shot quality of the whole season,
Speaker 1: meaning we got great shots at home, we just couldn't
Speaker 1: make any of them. And man, how many times when
Speaker 1: I said, um, you know, your offense will let you down.
Speaker 1: Sometimes you gotta lean on your kneeing on your defense,
Speaker 1: and we just didn't. Um. So, but that that series
Speaker 1: hurt me because, uh, listen, I don't know we would
Speaker 1: have beat the Lakers or not, but I felt like
Speaker 1: we were the whole year, the whole year. That was
Speaker 1: a team we wanted to beat. And that's what the
Speaker 1: world wanted to see, and the world wanted to see it.
Speaker 1: I wanted to see it. And like, man, that one,
Speaker 1: that one's gonna take a while to get over. Yeah,
Speaker 1: oh man, this has been amazing. We got quick hitters
Speaker 1: right now. First thing to come to mind, let us know,
Speaker 1: and I'm gonna start with the best moment as a player. Wow,
Speaker 1: that's a good The best moment as a player. Uh,
Speaker 1: you know what's funny, man, I didn't win an All
Speaker 1: Star Game. I mean I didn't win an NBA championship,
Speaker 1: but I would say that Boston Series just being in
Speaker 1: that series. Go ahead, jack favorite coach to coach against,
Speaker 1: oh Phil Jackson, of course, Yeah, I mean he was,
Speaker 1: he was the best. So yeah, you wanted to beat him.
Speaker 1: You got a chance to uh, favorite teammate? Wow, um
Speaker 1: ta can go with back, Yeah you are. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: go with probably John Starts. Um or yeah, John Starts
Speaker 1: probably was where I'll stopped. I just love I have
Speaker 1: a bunch of them. But that's my man. Love it. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Proudest coaching moment, proudest coaching moment was probably Game four
Speaker 1: in the Lakers series to come back, come back? Yeah,
Speaker 1: Um five dinner guests dead or alive. Oh, that's good,
Speaker 1: Um Nelson, Mandela, Martin, Luther King, Gandhi M Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: Gandhi would be great in that group. In Malcolm X
Speaker 1: one more it's U plus five Oh Malcolm X and
Speaker 1: then my dad. That's nice because I think you'd be
Speaker 1: great at that tables. Final question, who do you want
Speaker 1: to see on our show? Who do you want to
Speaker 1: see on All the Smoke? Well, y'all had it run
Speaker 1: ins with Austin, so I would say Austin, but because
Speaker 1: I think it'd be hilarious because you'll all three or fiery.
Speaker 1: I think it would be a great conversation. But I
Speaker 1: would love to see le Lebron on the show. He hasn't.
Speaker 1: I would love Lebron to be on the show because
Speaker 1: I think, Um, I think Lebron Man, we're gonna get
Speaker 1: something out of the doctor nobody have. Yeah, and he's
Speaker 1: been like and I got this respect for man because um,
Speaker 1: he was set up, did not do well from the beginning. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the fanfare that Lebron James had can't coming in. There's
Speaker 1: no way you can. You can reach it and he
Speaker 1: and he's not only he's exceeded. So I would say
Speaker 1: Lebron would be my choice for you. We're gonna work, man,
Speaker 1: We're gonna work. Well, that's man, Doc, thank you for
Speaker 1: your time. This has been a true gym for us.
Speaker 1: We appreciate you, man, guys, I've always loved you. Thank you.
Speaker 1: Uh tell the boys and said that absolutely well. Another
Speaker 1: episode in the books with Doc Rivers. You can catch
Speaker 1: us on Showtime Basketball, YouTube and The Black Effects I
Speaker 1: Heart Network. See y'all next time. This is all a Smoke,
Speaker 1: a production of The Black Effect and Our Heart Radio
Speaker 1: in partnership with show Time. On Super Bowl Sunday, CBS
Speaker 1: raises the hand of the champion while lifting the spirits
Speaker 1: of our frontline heroes. The celebration starts at to eastern
Speaker 1: with JB and the Guys getting you ready for the game.
Speaker 1: On the Super Bowl Today. They'll cover X and OS
Speaker 1: along with special performances by Miley, Sires and some of
Speaker 1: the biggest names in music, all leading up to the
Speaker 1: biggest game of the year at six eastern. February seventh
Speaker 1: celebrates Super Bowl Sunday on CBS