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Speaker 1: Hi guys, and welcome to a new episode of Couch

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Speaker 1: Talks on You Need Therapy Podcast. My name is Kat

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Speaker 1: and I am the host. And if you are wondering

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Speaker 1: what couch Talks is, it is the special bonus episode

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Speaker 1: of You Need Therapy Podcast that comes out every single Wednesday,

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Speaker 1: where I answer questions that you guys send into me

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Speaker 1: and you can send those two Katherine at you Need

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Speaker 1: Therapy podcast dot com. Now, before we get into the

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Speaker 1: question today, I want to remind everybody as always that

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Speaker 1: although I'm a therapist and I'm answering questions, I'm giving

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Speaker 1: some feedback. This podcast does not serve as a replacement

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Speaker 1: or substitute for actual mental health services. So if you

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Speaker 1: are new again, this is where I answer questions that

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Speaker 1: you guys send in and I try to do one

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Speaker 1: a week. Sometimes I do two if I'm doing smaller,

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Speaker 1: quicker ones, but usually it's one a week. We always

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Speaker 1: keep them, and today we have a good one, so

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Speaker 1: let's get right into it. Hey, Kat, I recently reconnected

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Speaker 1: with my cousins on my dad's side of the family,

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Speaker 1: and I have received a letter in the mail from

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Speaker 1: the oldest about how my soul is doomed if I

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Speaker 1: cannot become vegan by January twenty eighth. He follows the

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Speaker 1: teachings of some master guru who owns a bunch of

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Speaker 1: vegan chain restaurants around the US. The letter was alarming,

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Speaker 1: especially since he outlined why he wasn't in a cult.

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Speaker 1: My family is labeling him as a wacko. But I

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Speaker 1: can clearly see how alarming this is. I want to

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Speaker 1: reach out. I don't want him isolated from the family

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Speaker 1: even further. Not really sure what to do PS I

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Speaker 1: feel like all my cult education should have prepared me

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Speaker 1: for this moment. Okay, so I actually contacted this person.

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Speaker 1: I got a little bit more information about what was

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Speaker 1: going on, and okay, so if you are a avid

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Speaker 1: follower of the podcast, you know that last year I

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Speaker 1: went on a deep dive into cults and I have

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Speaker 1: a full episode about brainwashing and the power of cults

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Speaker 1: if anyone is interested in learning more about that. In general,

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Speaker 1: I also highly recommend the book Cultish, which is about

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Speaker 1: the language of cults and talks about what makes a

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Speaker 1: cult to cult and what makes a cult dangerous. I

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Speaker 1: think a lot of us think that cults are bad

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Speaker 1: because we know them to have harmed a lot of

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Speaker 1: vulnerable people, and a lot of cults are bad. I

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Speaker 1: think a lot of things can also be labeled and

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Speaker 1: can fit into the cult category that aren't bad and

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Speaker 1: can be helpful. We're all part of cult e type

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Speaker 1: situations regardless. When we hear the word cult, it comes

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Speaker 1: with a really negative connotation. And I think this letter

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Speaker 1: was really scary for somebody to read, and it felt

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Speaker 1: like the person was out of touch with reality for

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Speaker 1: some reason or another that used to be in touch

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Speaker 1: with reality. Now, this question is not really about cults

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Speaker 1: in general, so I wanted to start with that. It's

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Speaker 1: more about how do I respond to this letter from

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Speaker 1: a family member who seems to maybe be in a cult.

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Speaker 1: I think a very common reaction from people towards those

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Speaker 1: who may be in these kinds of groups, whether that's

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Speaker 1: a cult or just a group that feels very strange

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Speaker 1: and out of touch of reality, or in this case,

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Speaker 1: a group that feels very strict, like this person's saying,

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Speaker 1: your soul's doomed if you can't be vegan. I think

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Speaker 1: a very common reaction from receiving information from somebody in

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Speaker 1: one of those groups is to say that they are

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Speaker 1: crazy or they've lost their mind, and then to stay away,

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Speaker 1: which I'm not saying is wrong. We're just going to

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Speaker 1: talk about that. I think it's really really important here

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Speaker 1: to mention that often when somebody's behavior is being called

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Speaker 1: crazy or wacky or psychotic, it's because their behavior is

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Speaker 1: crazy or wacky or psychotic. But those terms are used

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Speaker 1: in this very judge, mental and damaging way rather than

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Speaker 1: helpful and descriptive. Calling somebody psychotic and dismissing them is

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Speaker 1: not helpful. But if we actually pay attention to what

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Speaker 1: does somebody being psychotic mean? Because if we're calling somebody

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Speaker 1: psychotic and they are, and then we're dismissing them, we

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Speaker 1: are ignoring a mental health crisis. Calling somebody psychotic isn't

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Speaker 1: supposed to be a slur. It's a descriptive word used

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Speaker 1: to identify symptoms of a mental health diagnosis. Those who

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Speaker 1: are having psychotic breaks or somebody who's experiencing psychosis delusions,

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Speaker 1: they very much just look like they're going mad. They're

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Speaker 1: out of touch with reality. So this letter sounds like

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Speaker 1: the person who wrote it is a little out of

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Speaker 1: touch with reality. Saying that you were going to die

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Speaker 1: and your soul is going to be doomed if you

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Speaker 1: do not become a vegan. Is something that feels very

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Speaker 1: out of touch with reality, but to this person it

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Speaker 1: feels very true. So that person, if they are experiencing

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Speaker 1: a mental health crisis, that person's not going to get

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Speaker 1: any better just by somebody being and like you're crazy

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Speaker 1: and then turning in the other cheek. It doesn't mean

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Speaker 1: you have to get involved. That's not what I'm saying

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Speaker 1: at all. But when we call people crazy and then

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Speaker 1: we just ignore them when like really, actually maybe they

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Speaker 1: are having psychotic features and that's not so much there's

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Speaker 1: something like inherently wrong with them. It's there's something going

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Speaker 1: on with their mind. There is an illness in their mind,

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Speaker 1: and mental illness like I just it's I even get

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Speaker 1: tongue tied, as you can tell talking about it. Because

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Speaker 1: mental illness is a thing. We have a sickness in

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Speaker 1: our brain, just like physical illness is a thing. There

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Speaker 1: is a sickness, there is something in our physical body.

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Speaker 1: And it is so hard for people to wrap their

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Speaker 1: brains around our own brains or on the fact that

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Speaker 1: when somebody is acting out of touch with reality, if

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Speaker 1: their brain is not working correctly, maybe there is something

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Speaker 1: going on with their brain. To me, I'm like trying

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Speaker 1: to think of a way to compare it.

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Speaker 2: To a physical illness. It's almost like if somebody is.

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Speaker 1: Having a seizure and we just ignore it, we're like, oh,

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Speaker 1: that person's seizure weird, when that might be signaling that

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Speaker 1: they have some other illness happening in their body. There's

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Speaker 1: something going on, they have epilepsy or some other health condition.

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Speaker 1: If somebody has a fever, that is signaling that they

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Speaker 1: have a physical illness. Like that, those are symptoms of

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Speaker 1: an illness, and so are psychotic features and delusions and

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Speaker 1: things like that. Those are symptoms of actual illnesses. But

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Speaker 1: the illnesses in our mind not like our immune system.

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Speaker 1: Although I will say physical illness, mental health, all of

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Speaker 1: that actually is tied up and connected to our immune system.

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Speaker 1: But that's a conversation for another day. Now. When it

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Speaker 1: comes to this situation, I don't know if that's actually

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Speaker 1: going on. I'm not diagnosing this person with any kind

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Speaker 1: of illness because I don't know them and I don't

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Speaker 1: have enough information, and also that's not what I do

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Speaker 1: on this podcast. But I think it warrants concern based

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Speaker 1: on what I have seen, what I have read, and again,

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Speaker 1: like I said, I was able to read this letter

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Speaker 1: and what this person that wrote in is reference seeing

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Speaker 1: the actual letter they received is very alarming from my

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Speaker 1: perspective as well. And who knows. There could be a

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Speaker 1: million things that are going on. They could be blackmailed

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Speaker 1: to be sending these letters from somebody, They could be

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Speaker 1: being controlled by somebody, or being threatened in some other way.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot of things that could be going on

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Speaker 1: other than them just being, for a lack of a

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Speaker 1: better way to describe this, in quotes a wacko and

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Speaker 1: they're just being their weird selves.

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Speaker 2: Because if we think about the term.

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Speaker 1: Weird, I just have to say this for a second,

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Speaker 1: but we think about that when we call somebody weird,

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Speaker 1: that mean they're different than us. It's very different for

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Speaker 1: me to say, oh, that person's weird, when yeah, that

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Speaker 1: might be judgmental, but maybe they just like possibly dress

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Speaker 1: in a way that I don't prefer to dress, or

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Speaker 1: they like a type of music that I think is

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Speaker 1: not great. Like, there is a very large spectrum of

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Speaker 1: being weird, and we can use a lot of words

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Speaker 1: like crazy and wacky, and whatever to describe a lot

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Speaker 1: of things that are actually very different. So somebody being

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Speaker 1: a wacko, I might say that because they like to

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Speaker 1: put I don't know why this is coming to my head,

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Speaker 1: but they like to put jelly on every single thing

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Speaker 1: that they eat, I might be like, they're wacky. That

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Speaker 1: doesn't mean they're having a psychotic break. But I also

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Speaker 1: can use that same term to describe somebody who is

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Speaker 1: having a psychotic break. And so I think it's very

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Speaker 1: important to be intentional and aware of the differences because

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Speaker 1: this type of weird behavior warrants a definite concern. Versus,

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Speaker 1: if somebody likes to put jelly on everything they eat,

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Speaker 1: I think that they're okay for the most part, unless

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Speaker 1: there's other things that are also going on as well.

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Speaker 1: But if that's the only thing they're doing that is

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Speaker 1: out of the ordinary, then I don't think we need

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Speaker 1: to do a well for a check or anything now,

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Speaker 1: because we don't have enough information to identify what's going

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Speaker 1: on here, and regardless, we don't have control over anyone

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Speaker 1: other than ourselves. Little reminder, I think what I would

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Speaker 1: encourage somebody in this situation to do is to ask

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Speaker 1: what response feels congruent with their moral compass and reality.

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Speaker 1: So I say reality because we may want to save

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Speaker 1: somebody or we might want to fix something, but realistically

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Speaker 1: we have to look at how little power we actually

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Speaker 1: have over other people's lives, although we can make a

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Speaker 1: difference by our behaviors at times. So I might start

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Speaker 1: with looking at what I want to do here and

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Speaker 1: what I actually can do.

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Speaker 2: I might want to save somebody, but what can I do?

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Speaker 1: I can express concern, and so again look at what

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Speaker 1: would fit within your moral compass and your values. Does

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Speaker 1: it feel in line with me to ignore and just

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Speaker 1: protect myself? Does it feel in line with me to

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Speaker 1: cause behavior crazy and make fun of him? Does it

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Speaker 1: feel in line with me to respond to the letter

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Speaker 1: sharing my feelings or thoughts. Does it feel in line

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Speaker 1: with me to set a boundary and cut off communication

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Speaker 1: with this person? So looking at what I want to do,

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Speaker 1: look at what I actually can do, while looking at

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Speaker 1: what feels in line with my moral compass. I think

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Speaker 1: that there are a lot of options that you can

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Speaker 1: do in this specific situations, and they aren't all right,

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Speaker 1: they aren't all wrong. Some of them are going to

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Speaker 1: be better suited with you than others. You mentioned that

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Speaker 1: you don't want this person isolated from the family even further,

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Speaker 1: which I really appreciate because I think this person is

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Speaker 1: really thinking about this at a deeper level than a

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Speaker 1: lot of people might think about this, just because it's

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Speaker 1: easier just to be like, like I said, you're crazy. Bye.

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Speaker 1: So you said you don't want this person to be

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Speaker 1: isolated from the family even further. Is there a way

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Speaker 1: for you to keep in contact with him that does

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Speaker 1: not feel like it then puts you or your family

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Speaker 1: or anybody in your life at risk, because sometimes also

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Speaker 1: if there is a mental health crisis going on, there

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Speaker 1: could be some danger involved as well, and so you

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Speaker 1: might not want to put yourself in the line of fire.

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Speaker 2: But there are people that are trained and they do

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Speaker 2: this for a living.

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Speaker 1: So I am not a firefighter, so I probably am

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Speaker 1: not going to, for the most part, run into a

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Speaker 1: burning building to try to put out a fire that

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Speaker 1: has taken over a home. But I might call it

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Speaker 1: the fire department to come help me do that. So

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Speaker 1: is there a way for you to express that you care?

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Speaker 1: Is there a way for you to express concern for him.

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Speaker 2: That feels safe to you?

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Speaker 1: If that's what you come down to, if it comes

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Speaker 1: down to I want to express some kind of concern

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Speaker 1: for this person, is there a way for you to

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Speaker 1: do that that would be safe and could be the

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Speaker 1: most powerful in the little power that we have. Personally,

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Speaker 1: if I got a letter like this from a friend

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Speaker 1: or a family member, I would reach out to the

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Speaker 1: people closest to them to check in, to express concern,

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Speaker 1: to ask if there's something that you need to know,

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Speaker 1: or maybe to give information that the people around them

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Speaker 1: might not know. That is what I would do. You

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Speaker 1: can't tell them you're experiencing delusions in psychosis from a distance, right,

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Speaker 1: They're not going to be able to receive that because

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Speaker 1: those things are very real to them. Now take that

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Speaker 1: with a grain of salt. This is not for everybody,

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Speaker 1: but generally, when somebody is going through something that is

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Speaker 1: their reality, they are out of touch with reality. So

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Speaker 1: when you tell them that, that doesn't really make very

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Speaker 1: much sense. Just like if I tell you that you're

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Speaker 1: crazy and you're not crazy, you're to be like, I'm

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Speaker 1: not crazy. Well, if you tell somebody who's crazy, And

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Speaker 1: again when I say crazy, I mean how we sometimes

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Speaker 1: can perceive somebody who's experiensing psychosis if we just tell

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Speaker 1: them that, they're going to be like, no, I'm not

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Speaker 1: because that is their reality, which is a confusing hard

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Speaker 1: thing to sometimes just say. I don't know if that

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Speaker 1: even made sense when I said it, but I hope.

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Speaker 2: That it did.

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Speaker 1: And so is there a way for you to express

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Speaker 1: concern to the people closest to that person? Lastly, what

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Speaker 1: I would say if you really are concerned, and this

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Speaker 1: is for anybody ever, if you're concerned for somebody's immediate

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Speaker 1: danger and well being, you can issue a welfare check

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Speaker 1: and you don't have to be a mental health professional

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Speaker 1: of any kind to do that. I would google how

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Speaker 1: to do that in your area, because it's going to

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Speaker 1: be different depending on where you live. But I can

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Speaker 1: just google a welfare check that would send a trained professional,

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Speaker 1: whether that it's a police officer that has been through

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Speaker 1: crisis training or a crisis worker or something like that,

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Speaker 1: to check on the person that I'm concerned about to

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Speaker 1: see if they are in danger or not. So you

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Speaker 1: can do that, it's not going to cost you anything.

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Speaker 1: A lot of times I feel like the reason people

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Speaker 1: don't do that is they're afraid that the person's going

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Speaker 1: to get mad. At them, And what I can tell

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Speaker 1: you is one, they're anonymous, and two, I think if

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Speaker 1: you weigh the options here, somebody being mad at me

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Speaker 1: versus I'm concerned for somebody's safety, that's going to trump

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Speaker 1: that because if their safety is in danger in the

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Speaker 1: long run, that is the most important thing versus somebody

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Speaker 1: being upset with you over being concerned with them. So

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Speaker 1: that's something that you can do.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 1: As I kind of close this out, I know that

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Speaker 1: this question was super specific and more specific than some

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Speaker 1: what I want people to hear, and kind of what

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Speaker 1: I'm saying are two things or a couple things.

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Speaker 2: One, if we're.

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Speaker 1: Seeing symptoms of something rather than throwing that off and

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Speaker 1: just ignoring it and laughing it off or throwing judgment.

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Speaker 1: And this can be with anything. Think about how people

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Speaker 1: view symptoms of drug abuse or eating disorders. It's like, oh,

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Speaker 1: they're just doing drugs and they're just doing this and

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Speaker 1: they're blah blah blah, and we like label them as

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Speaker 1: bad people.

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Speaker 2: And I'm like, well, maybe the reason.

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Speaker 1: That they are stealing drugs from the neighbor might be

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Speaker 1: because they have an addiction and that's a mental health disorder,

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Speaker 1: not an indication that this person is inherently bad or wrong,

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Speaker 1: and there also is a solution and there is help.

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Speaker 1: So if I'm concerned about somebody's behavior, first of all,

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Speaker 1: why am I concerned about it? I'm concerned about somebody's

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Speaker 1: behavior if it feels like they're doing something that's dangerous

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Speaker 1: or wrong. Rather than just writing them off as bad people,

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Speaker 1: what would happen if we started instead looking at people

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Speaker 1: as inherently good and noticing the behaviors that don't fit

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Speaker 1: with that, and looking at those as symptoms of a

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Speaker 1: problem that is not the person. You know, the problem

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Speaker 1: is the problem. The problem isn't the person. So I

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Speaker 1: want people to hear that. And then the other thing

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Speaker 1: I want people to hear is there are ways to

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Speaker 1: express care and help that aren't always direct reaching out

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Speaker 1: to somebody. And again, we have to look at what

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Speaker 1: are our main concerns making sure somebody isn't mad at us? Right,

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Speaker 1: it's a little codependency coming out or taking care of

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Speaker 1: people's immediate life threatening needs. So that's going to do

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Speaker 1: it for me today. I hope that you guys as

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Speaker 1: always get something out of these short little conversations. And

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Speaker 1: of course, if you have any questions that you want

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Speaker 1: to send in, any feedback, anything, you can send that

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Speaker 1: to Katherine at you Need Therapy podcast dot com. I

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Speaker 1: hope you guys have the day you need to have

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Speaker 1: and I will be back with you on Monday for

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Speaker 1: another episode of You Need Therapy. If you want to

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Speaker 1: follow us, you can do that on Instagram at you

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Speaker 1: Need Therapy at kat van Buren