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Speaker 1: On theme is a production of iHeartRadio and fair Weather

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Speaker 1: Friends Media. I'm Katie and I'm Eves. In Today's episode

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Speaker 1: is a love letter to Black Stories. Dear Black Stories,

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Speaker 1: I have known you in so many ways, so I

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Speaker 1: have loved you in so many ways. I have known

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Speaker 1: you through the yellowed pages of dusty books with beat covers,

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Speaker 1: through VHS tapes that I stuck one eager forefinger in

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Speaker 1: to rewind start over. I have known you through tiny

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Speaker 1: TV screens and loud radio segments, ones that were too

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Speaker 1: grown for my own good. I have known you to

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Speaker 1: be full of cusswords and rich dialects, and odd terms

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Speaker 1: of endearment, and sayings that made no sense and perfect

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Speaker 1: sense at once. I have heard you rang through old

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Speaker 1: homes with wood panels as walls, reverberate, through spaces full

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Speaker 1: of warm things like crooked pictures of family members and

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Speaker 1: overwarm plaiq couches. I've heard you told indulcet tones and

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Speaker 1: booming bases. I have seen you be the center of

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Speaker 1: attention and background noise, and both ways you were welcome.

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Speaker 1: You filled me with love, and so I return it

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Speaker 1: in kind. I pour back into you blood and ink,

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Speaker 1: though it wasn't like I fell for you. It was

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Speaker 1: more like I rose, climbing carefully until I could witness

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Speaker 1: your splendor from up high. Awesome, terrible. In all your glory,

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Speaker 1: you forced me to imagine worlds, both true and invented,

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Speaker 1: that were shaped by sorrow and sweetness. I drank them

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Speaker 1: in and found that there was a place in my

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Speaker 1: gut for everything. I could love all of you, even

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Speaker 1: when you didn't sit well with me. You wove tales

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Speaker 1: where families were torn apart and raggedly sewn back together,

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Speaker 1: where people spent a lifetime trying to answer a single question,

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Speaker 1: where joy was intentional, not optional, and where friendships bloomed

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Speaker 1: and faltered. You lit in me an eternal flame that

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Speaker 1: could not be put out by the wind of any

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Speaker 1: spiteful whisper. I stand in awe of your complexity and

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Speaker 1: beauty and flair. I revel in the wake of your

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Speaker 1: honesty and your creativity. I am here because the same

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Speaker 1: souls who imagined you dreamed me up and made me real.

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Speaker 1: They spoke, they wrote, they conjured, and now I do

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Speaker 1: the same, thankful for the spirits that they bottled in you,

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Speaker 1: Grateful for the knowledge that you've carried across time and space,

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Speaker 1: the thoughts that would have vanished if not for your

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Speaker 1: care and safe keeping. I want you to know that

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Speaker 1: you are loved, not just because the world offers you

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Speaker 1: love with asterisks, but because you are love material. You

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Speaker 1: are proof of life and its continuity. You are magic

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Speaker 1: made manifest, born from the dust of everyone's bones. You

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Speaker 1: are a call to wake and a call to rest.

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Speaker 1: Because of you, I have laughed in bed, cried in sunlight,

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Speaker 1: smiled in darkness. If it weren't for you, I wouldn't

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Speaker 1: know who I am. Thank you, Lorraine, Zora, Paul James,

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Speaker 1: Harriet Oscar, Alice, Maya, Phyllis, Francis Ida, Sidney, Richard, Tony, Alex.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for the other names we know and all

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Speaker 1: the ones we don't. Thank you for all the names

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Speaker 1: that you have yet to create. Thank you, Love Thieves,

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Speaker 1: Dearest black Stories.

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Speaker 2: I want you to know how much I love you.

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Speaker 2: You are the beating heart of our culture, the soul

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Speaker 2: of our community, and the legacy of our ancestors. You

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Speaker 2: are the wisdom of the elders, the dreams of the youth,

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Speaker 2: and the hopes of the future. You are the fire

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Speaker 2: in our bellies. The rhythm in our feet and the

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Speaker 2: melody in our hearts. You are the history that was erased,

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Speaker 2: the voice that was silenced, and the spirit that was broken.

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Speaker 2: You are the resistance that fought back, the resilience that survived,

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Speaker 2: and the revival that thrived. You are the joy that

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Speaker 2: was shared, the pain that was healed, and the love

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Speaker 2: that was celebrated. You are the drum beat of Africa,

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Speaker 2: the blues of the Delta, and the jazz of Harlem.

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Speaker 2: You are the poetry of Langston, the prose of Morrison,

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Speaker 2: and the drama of Wilson. You are the art of

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Speaker 2: Bosquaiacht the dance of a Lee in the film of Lee.

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Speaker 2: You are the memory of our ancestors, the legacy of

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Speaker 2: our heroes, and the inspiration for our children. You're the

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Speaker 2: names most people don't know too, the Grandpa's and the

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Speaker 2: uncles bouncing us on their knee, the grandma's and the

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Speaker 2: aunties bouncing us on their hip, telling stories of days,

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Speaker 2: people and places past. You're the names most will know

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Speaker 2: soon too. Friends with a mic and a dream. You

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Speaker 2: are the power of improvisation, the beauty of creative freedom,

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Speaker 2: and the empathy of understanding. You are the connection of community,

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Speaker 2: the arc of history, and the empowerment of self definition.

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Speaker 2: You are the mirror that reflects our image, the window

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Speaker 2: that opens our minds, and the door that leads us

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Speaker 2: to our dreams. You are the reason why I write,

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Speaker 2: why I read, why I listen. You are the reason

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Speaker 2: why I teach, why I learn, why I grow. You're

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Speaker 2: the reason why I love, why I respect, and why

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Speaker 2: I honor. We are because you are with love and gratitude.

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Speaker 2: You're devoted admirer, Katie.

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Speaker 1: Snaps.

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Speaker 2: So what feelings came up for you as you were

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Speaker 2: writing your letter?

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Speaker 1: So I overwhelm because I had to reckon with all

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Speaker 1: of black stories and all of black storytelling and what

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Speaker 1: that is and how it showed up in my life

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Speaker 1: as a person who writes black stories and also consumes

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Speaker 1: and enjoys them right and who is surrounded by black

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Speaker 1: stories through my own family. So I just had to

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Speaker 1: reckon with the breath of black storytelling but also being

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Speaker 1: in the process of being a Black story who's currently

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Speaker 1: in creation. And it was kind of layers of meta

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Speaker 1: for me because it's like, I am a Black story

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Speaker 1: that's currently in creation because of other Black stories that

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Speaker 1: have come before me. Right, But I also am that

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Speaker 1: in that I write stories as a black person, right,

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Speaker 1: And so it's like this weird inception or beautiful inception,

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Speaker 1: however you want to think about it of like honoring

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Speaker 1: both of those things at the same time.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, hearing your letter, I really felt like the word

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Speaker 2: story could have been replaced with like humanity or like

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Speaker 2: black people in general. And it's like how you interact

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Speaker 2: with stories, it's like a very personal thing. You were

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Speaker 2: preat known a lot, like the stories are known, you've

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Speaker 2: known them in this way. You know them in that

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Speaker 2: way in different time periods in your life, different settings,

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Speaker 2: like they're always there and they're always known. I thought

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Speaker 2: that was like showing that relationship was very interesting.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that is interesting because I think it is it's

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Speaker 1: both conscious and unconscious, because I think you and I

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Speaker 1: have talked about this before to where I didn't grow

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Speaker 1: up super intentional about the way that I consumed black stories,

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Speaker 1: but always like have been a fan of stories in general.

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Speaker 1: So I do think it's something that is like it

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Speaker 1: can be developed or learned, but also it's just like

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Speaker 1: part of my life. So I can tell from your

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Speaker 1: letter that you have been entrenched in black stories because

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Speaker 1: you talk a lot about all the different ways that

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Speaker 1: they show up for you and the different kinds of

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Speaker 1: emotional resonance that they have for you, and like roles

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Speaker 1: that they've played in your life, an impact that they've had.

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Speaker 1: So I know that you've been entrenched in it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, for a long time, maybe just because of the

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Speaker 2: way we grew up, which I think in the earlier

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Speaker 2: years were very different. Like you grew up in really

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Speaker 2: black areas and I did not interesting. So it was

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Speaker 2: like my mom had to go out of the way

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Speaker 2: in a way to make sure that I did see

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Speaker 2: those black stories. So it wasn't just like, oh they're around.

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Speaker 2: It's like, Okay, I have these kids, and we are

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Speaker 2: the only black people in town, and I need to

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Speaker 2: go get the J. Jcpenny catalog and order these things

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Speaker 2: because they're not going to be at the store or

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Speaker 2: they're not going to be on TV or you know.

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Speaker 2: So I think we came to it, but in very

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Speaker 2: different ways.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, Like when I think about my childhood, I

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Speaker 1: was like, I feel like I had a black ass childhood.

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Speaker 1: You and I were just talking about the Candy Lady,

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Speaker 1: and like the Candy Lady was always a thing you know,

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Speaker 1: we were eating hot pickles, hot fries, hot cheetus. I

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Speaker 1: don't know if hot cheetos were we were eating more

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Speaker 1: hot prospect then, but you know we were doing that

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Speaker 1: like being around other black ass kids in the neighborhood

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Speaker 1: at the pool, you know, doing black ass things. So, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it is interesting to point that out. What impact do

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Speaker 1: you think in general that black stories have had on

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Speaker 1: your life?

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Speaker 2: Definitely, in different times in my life they've had, you know,

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Speaker 2: a variety of impacts, but I think overall it is

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Speaker 2: like a companion maybe also like a blueprint or a map. Sometimes.

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Speaker 2: I think memoirs and biographies really are good in that way,

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Speaker 2: seeing how other black women have navigated different things. And

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Speaker 2: you know, there's that James ballwind quotes like I'm paraphrasing,

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Speaker 2: but thinking like you're the only person in the world

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Speaker 2: who's felt a certain way, and then you read and

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Speaker 2: then you get that connection, and it's like it feels

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Speaker 2: so personal, you know, it feels so individual, and then

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Speaker 2: someone says the exact way you feel. It's kind of like, oh, dang,

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Speaker 2: I'm really connected to these people that existed in a

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Speaker 2: different time and place, Like there's no overlap, you know,

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Speaker 2: between us and a lot of these storytellers that we

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Speaker 2: really resonate with, Like you know, James Bodwin had passed

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Speaker 2: like maybe a decade before we were born. Links and

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Speaker 2: Hughes had passed decades before we were born. But reading

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Speaker 2: their works sometimes it's like, oh, I felt that exact

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Speaker 2: same way, and you were like on a boat headed

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Speaker 2: to Morocco and I am in Atlanta, Georgia in my room.

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Speaker 1: And they are able to articulate it in ways that

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Speaker 1: makes sense to us too, because that's the other thing

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Speaker 1: about the artistry is like they found a way to

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Speaker 1: translate it from this feeling that we have and to

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Speaker 1: make it something that is a lot more concrete.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel like that's when you talked about like

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Speaker 2: the conjuring and the magic. I feel like that is

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Speaker 2: what it is, because it feels magical when you counter

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Speaker 2: something because like I wouldn't know how to put that

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Speaker 2: intowards but now I saw you and that's exactly what

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Speaker 2: I feel. So it is that like magical moment where

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Speaker 2: it's like, oh, he's in my head or she's in

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Speaker 2: my head that I think really like clicks and makes

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Speaker 2: me want to like create stories and maybe if I'm

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Speaker 2: lucky enough to give that feeling to somebody else.

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Speaker 1: Perfect segue, because that's exactly what I was thinking. How

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Speaker 1: both legacy came up in both of our letters, Like

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Speaker 1: the idea of that, and you know you thinking I

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Speaker 1: would never be able to say that, but seeing somebody

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Speaker 1: else write it can function as an inspiration to you,

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Speaker 1: and so you're like, Okay, this person did it, Now

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Speaker 1: I know that I can do it. But it's also

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Speaker 1: like it's internalized once you consume it into your own lins.

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Speaker 1: So now it's in your spirit, it's and your soul,

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Speaker 1: and even if it's not something that you're cognizant of,

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Speaker 1: it's kind of like you absorb the idea. But like

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Speaker 1: I've seen another black artist or black storyteller elucidate this

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Speaker 1: ways that I thought were impossible and understand me. It

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Speaker 1: shows that I thought were impossible. And if you are

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Speaker 1: a person like I know you are, who's a storyteller

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Speaker 1: and an artist, it can feel very empowering just from

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Speaker 1: a base level just to like read stuff that you enjoy, right,

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Speaker 1: It's like, oh, that was that was great? Like I

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Speaker 1: enjoyed that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's a it's like the layering of

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Speaker 2: our stories too, Like you said, reading listening to a story,

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Speaker 2: and it just kind of it's just like text in

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Speaker 2: the back of your mind, like maybe you're not always

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Speaker 2: thinking about it, but it's like it's part of that

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Speaker 2: collective archive, and it's always like building and compounding from

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Speaker 2: you know, what I read to how I speak with you,

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Speaker 2: and then our conversations, and then it just keeps growing

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Speaker 2: and growing, and it's like this very big archive that

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Speaker 2: no one could really archive completely, but it's there, and

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Speaker 2: it's just kind of like between us as people who

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Speaker 2: consume and create worries.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it is also overwhelming to think about how

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Speaker 1: much is in existence and how much we don't know about,

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Speaker 1: not just the names but the actual works, because there

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Speaker 1: are all these names we don't know. But then that

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Speaker 1: means there's a larger number of works that we don't

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Speaker 1: know about anymore, and that we're continuing to build upon

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Speaker 1: that archives so we have like more work to look

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Speaker 1: forward to in the future.

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Speaker 2: It has overwhelmed me to in that same vein think

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Speaker 2: about the stories that we're not created, and I think

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Speaker 2: about like slavery in particular. I think it's a very

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Speaker 2: like concrete example of like you know, hundreds of years,

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Speaker 2: so many people who would have been creating stories or

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Speaker 2: doing a lot of different things, but there would be

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Speaker 2: storytellers in the mix that just did not happen. And

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Speaker 2: it's like, you know, I think the United States in

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Speaker 2: some ways and sometimes acknowledges that the United States would

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Speaker 2: not be the superpower that it is if it weren't

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Speaker 2: for slavery in the labor, the free the unpaid the labor,

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Speaker 2: and like the torture and the abuse of slavery. But

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Speaker 2: also it's like there could have been so much more

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Speaker 2: better things if those people were you know, able to

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Speaker 2: I don't know, be creative or do what they wanted

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Speaker 2: to basically in the world, not just America focused, because

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Speaker 2: those people wouldn't have been in America, but you know

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Speaker 2: what I mean Like that also likes like.

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Speaker 1: It's kind of how we think about when we think

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Speaker 1: about the impact that people being enslaved in the what

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Speaker 1: is now called the United States, Like we think about

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Speaker 1: that in terms of physicality and the things that are

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Speaker 1: built versus other kinds of intellectual pursuits. Are the artistry

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Speaker 1: of black people as it stands currently, Is that kind

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Speaker 1: of what you mean?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, just like what was lost, and we won't ever know,

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Speaker 2: and we can't ever know, but we know that a

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Speaker 2: lot was.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, a lot was lost. Yes, yes, But you already

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Speaker 1: know how I feel about this telling stories about enslaved people.

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Speaker 1: You already know I have a whole episode planned on

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Speaker 1: that and how we need more of them, because as

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Speaker 1: tired as some of us may act like we are

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Speaker 1: of stories about enslaved people, the reality is we only

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Speaker 1: call them enslaved people now because we know that they

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Speaker 1: were enslaved, but they are also still individual people who

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Speaker 1: individual Black people who lived here, just like we are

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Speaker 1: all individual people now. And we would never say anything

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Speaker 1: like we have enough stories about black people, because we don't.

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Speaker 1: They're infinite. As long as black people continue to be born,

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Speaker 1: we have more Black stories coming from the minds and

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Speaker 1: new stories that are being created. And we have all

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Speaker 1: these stories, as you mentioned, about people who were enslaved,

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Speaker 1: who were just people who lived lives, who were artists

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Speaker 1: as well, who had stories that could have been born

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Speaker 1: of their imagination, but also stories that were based on

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Speaker 1: their real lives that are singular.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think tell those to your line about proof

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Speaker 2: of life, I really like that, because stories are a

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Speaker 2: proof of life, and for people say we have enough

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Speaker 2: of these types of stories, it's like that's enough of

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Speaker 2: acknowledging your existence.

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Speaker 1: When you put it like that, it sounds like like

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Speaker 1: that doesn't make any.

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Speaker 2: Sense, that breaks on it. Yeah, So yeah, black stories

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Speaker 2: are a proof of blacke of black people, and there

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Speaker 2: are a lot of different types of black people. So yeah,

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Speaker 2: I think God was a really beautiful way that you

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Speaker 2: put that.

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Speaker 1: Thanks. I was also thinking about self definition and your

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Speaker 1: usage of that. Can you tell me more about using

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Speaker 1: that specific diction in that moment?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So I think it's like the empowerment of being

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Speaker 2: able to say who we are, Like Black people are

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Speaker 2: always being told who we are by people who are

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Speaker 2: not us in people who often times do not like us,

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Speaker 2: do not see our humanity, do not want us to

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Speaker 2: be here, did not imagine us in this moment, like

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Speaker 2: didn't imagine us in the future, like going back to slavery,

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Speaker 2: Like we wear tools and tools aren't supposed to be

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Speaker 2: anything but like for your use. So I think with

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Speaker 2: black storytelling, that self definition piece is really powerful because

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Speaker 2: not even just counteracting narratives, but just writing your own narrative,

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Speaker 2: like this is who I am this is what I'm about,

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Speaker 2: This is who and what I care about. I think

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Speaker 2: is really important and it allows for black story tellers

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Speaker 2: and people who are consuming the stories later on to

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Speaker 2: have that aha moment that we are talking about. Right,

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Speaker 2: You're not going to really have that aha moment of

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Speaker 2: someone who doesn't see your humanity describing you. And if

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Speaker 2: you do, there's therapy out here, you know.

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Speaker 1: And thinking as a storyteller, that's something that I reckon

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Speaker 1: with on the page too, Like, because the idea of

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Speaker 1: race and what blackness means to me is something that

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Speaker 1: is part of my agenda, but it's also just part

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Speaker 1: of the consciousness of living in the United States in

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Speaker 1: this moment as a black person, like that has been

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Speaker 1: forced upon me. I have no choice but kind of

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Speaker 1: to think about that as a person who is conscious

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Speaker 1: of these ideas. Like sometimes when I'm writing, I'm like,

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Speaker 1: am I coordinaing off parts of myself? And although it's

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Speaker 1: parts of myself, part of my blackness that I'm courtening

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Speaker 1: off when I'm writing? Or is this true to me?

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Speaker 1: I find myself thinking in my writing, like throughout my

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Speaker 1: process about what parts of my blackness are showing up

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Speaker 1: on the page. And what does that say about how

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Speaker 1: I process things, how I feel about my own self

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Speaker 1: definition when I'm writing. So now I'm like, do I

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Speaker 1: Sometimes I'm like, do I need to up the ante

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Speaker 1: on this blackness? How many more ants do I need

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Speaker 1: to put in here? How many more bees do I

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Speaker 1: need to put in in here? Like? Is that performative?

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Speaker 1: Or like, am I like trying to correct for the

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Speaker 1: thing that I was being shielded by all these other

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Speaker 1: things that I have that I've been conditioned to, you know,

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Speaker 1: kind of fall in line with white superiority or whatever

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Speaker 1: other trapping of racism in the United States that I've

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Speaker 1: been unintentionally conditioned to speak out of. Because it's like,

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Speaker 1: there are these pure forms of expression, you know when

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Speaker 1: I write, and then they change in the process of editing,

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Speaker 1: which is its own thing. Because it's like, what am

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Speaker 1: I editing when I'm writing as a black person? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Like are you editing out or a pure blackness? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: I don't think I've thought about it that way. That's

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Speaker 2: what I think about, because we do have like our

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Speaker 2: own dialect and we talk in it, but how do

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Speaker 2: we write in it? How do we publish things in it?

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Speaker 1: And is there a right way to translate that? Right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I do. And does it make us any less authentic

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Speaker 1: if we do it one way or the other?

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Speaker 2: Thoughts questions that need answers.

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Speaker 1: So, if the works themselves have given you this ability

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Speaker 1: to be able to see different expressions of self definition

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Speaker 1: and helped you reckon with that more for yourself, how

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Speaker 1: do you think that showed up for you? Like how

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Speaker 1: do you self defined in the world. Do you feel

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Speaker 1: more empowered in that or that you're able to do

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Speaker 1: it with a little bit more confidence like your own

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Speaker 1: self definition of yourself and your blackness in it.

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Speaker 2: I think what Black Story has given me the confidence

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Speaker 2: to do is to be comfortable with like adding to

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Speaker 2: that self definition and not feeling like, oh well I

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Speaker 2: thought this at one point, so I have to always

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Speaker 2: think this. In the process of writing this book that

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Speaker 2: I'm writing, I feel like I can feel myself changing

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Speaker 2: like every day, which is a very jarring experience because

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Speaker 2: like sometimes you look back five years and like, oh

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Speaker 2: I changed from five years ago. It's not like you're

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Speaker 2: looking back like last Wednesday, I was a different bitch,

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Speaker 2: you know. So I feel like that's what it's given

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Speaker 2: me the power to do it's like, Okay, while I'm

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Speaker 2: learning more from these stories, from these people, from these elders,

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Speaker 2: from these peers, so I'm going to give myself the

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Speaker 2: permission to like add to my self definition or take

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Speaker 2: away some things from my self definition that aren't really

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Speaker 2: resonating with me anymore and not feeling like I'm like

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Speaker 2: stuck into this one thing that I've like maybe announced before.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think that I really like seeing the

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Speaker 1: similarities that showed up between our letters too, because you

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Speaker 1: said we are because you are in it and that

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Speaker 1: was kind of like similar to what I said too.

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Speaker 1: It's like if these stories didn't exist, like I wouldn't

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Speaker 1: exist right as a person, but also as a writer

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Speaker 1: an artist. Yeah, it's very like cyclical, I'd say, yeah.

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Speaker 2: And it's like storytelling has given so much to us,

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Speaker 2: so I think with this podcast is kind of an

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Speaker 2: offering giving back to other black storytellers, but just giving

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Speaker 2: back to the art of storytelling in general.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the art and the archive. And it feels good

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Speaker 1: to be able to do that. Yeah, you know, in

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Speaker 1: the pursuit it is, and that it makes me think

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Speaker 1: of one of the I don't know if we've talked

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Speaker 1: about this quote before, but the one from Lorraine Hansbury

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Speaker 1: where she says something along the lines of like do

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Speaker 1: I remain a revolutionary? Like an intellectual for sure, but

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Speaker 1: like am I willing to put my life on the

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Speaker 1: line for this? And of course these conversations always arise

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Speaker 1: around art and how that writing specifically and how those

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Speaker 1: feels contribute to movements for social change. So that is

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Speaker 1: one thing that comes up for me, like I always

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Speaker 1: that quote just always pops up in my mind because

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Speaker 1: it makes me think about how even all of the

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Speaker 1: activism that Loraine Hansbury herself was involved in and the

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00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:07,000
Speaker 1: spheares that she moved in, but also like the great

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Speaker 1: artistry that she created, it was something that was top

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Speaker 1: of mind for her. So connecting the dots back, I

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00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:15,800
Speaker 1: think that's kind of what I was thinking of when

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Speaker 1: I was saying, like a call to waken, a call

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Speaker 1: to rest, because it's like in that quote, Lorraine Hansbury

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Speaker 1: clearly was very concerned with her contributions from an activism

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Speaker 1: and a political perspective, a socio political perspective, And it's

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Speaker 1: also like a part of me that's like, we've done

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Speaker 1: enough not to negate or to neglect the way that

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00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:47,520
Speaker 1: we should show up for our different communities. But it's

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Speaker 1: also like the pressure that we as black people in

417
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Speaker 1: the United States so specifically and so often feel to

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Speaker 1: change the fucking world, you know, to do these like

419
00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:05,240
Speaker 1: grand things, to always have something to do, something to contribute.

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Speaker 1: And the question is what does it look like to

421
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Speaker 1: not feel the pressure to have to think about it

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Speaker 1: in that way.

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Speaker 2: I feel like every movement or social change, a lot

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Speaker 2: of times we think of the people who make the

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Speaker 2: change of like the people on the front lines, like

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Speaker 2: you know, the people getting beat up by the police,

427
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Speaker 2: the people you know, protesting, And I do think that's

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Speaker 2: a part of it, but I think every movement has

429
00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:34,119
Speaker 2: so many pieces to it. Like thinking about the bus boycott.

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Speaker 2: They're not riding a bus, A lot of them are walking,

431
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Speaker 2: a lot of them are car pulling, and for some reason,

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Speaker 2: they all wore them. They all dressed up real nice

433
00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:45,520
Speaker 2: like that, so they have these dress shoes on. So

434
00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:47,720
Speaker 2: a part of being a part of the movement is

435
00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:50,680
Speaker 2: the guy who fixes everybody's shoes, you know what I'm saying,

436
00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:56,119
Speaker 2: The person who coordinates car pulling, the person who's a

437
00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:59,000
Speaker 2: mechanic because your cars are having more wear and tear

438
00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:01,600
Speaker 2: on it because you're picking up eight groups of people

439
00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:05,160
Speaker 2: a day instead of just driving yourself to work. And

440
00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:08,760
Speaker 2: the storyteller is also a part of that. It's the photographers,

441
00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:13,080
Speaker 2: it's the people who were writing about this, because we

442
00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:15,240
Speaker 2: wouldn't know about it really if it wasn't for the

443
00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:20,200
Speaker 2: storytellers who captured all this going on. So I feel you,

444
00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:22,320
Speaker 2: but I feel like there's a lot of ways to

445
00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:27,240
Speaker 2: enact that change. And I think it's okay to feel

446
00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:30,400
Speaker 2: that pressure, but to find where you fit in where

447
00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:34,080
Speaker 2: it's not like so overwhelming. Back to our theme.

448
00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:39,119
Speaker 1: Of this, Yeah, And not to say that I feel

449
00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:44,000
Speaker 1: that pressure, it's just that I recognize that in a

450
00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:47,440
Speaker 1: general sense, like I think it has been a kind

451
00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:50,080
Speaker 1: of burden on black people to feel the pressure because

452
00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:52,919
Speaker 1: of the struggles that we've gone through to have to

453
00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:55,800
Speaker 1: in our lives find the way that we are going

454
00:26:55,840 --> 00:27:01,000
Speaker 1: to make the change. So it's like, whatever field you're in,

455
00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:03,200
Speaker 1: it's like, what you're gonna do for black people? Right,

456
00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:11,800
Speaker 1: you gotta answer. And I just think that stands out

457
00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:15,399
Speaker 1: from her perspective where it's like whatever you do is enough.

458
00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:19,480
Speaker 1: I mean, and Lorraine Hansbury definitely did things, but that

459
00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:22,680
Speaker 1: didn't even have to extend to the activist fear if

460
00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:24,800
Speaker 1: it didn't need to, Like, all you got to do

461
00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:27,359
Speaker 1: is show the fuck up, and that's good. You're good.

462
00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:30,440
Speaker 1: You're here on this earth as a black person. Now chill,

463
00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:33,199
Speaker 1: and what does it look like to chill? What does

464
00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:35,520
Speaker 1: it look like not to be burdened by the question

465
00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:40,399
Speaker 1: of what do I do for black people? And for me?

466
00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:45,399
Speaker 1: I think about it because through realizing that like I

467
00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:47,760
Speaker 1: am here on this earth and I have no idea why,

468
00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:50,160
Speaker 1: and I'm literally trying to figure things out every day,

469
00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:53,919
Speaker 1: I've reached a point where I like, I'm okay with that,

470
00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:56,920
Speaker 1: you know, I understand that I have that understanding and clarity.

471
00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:02,560
Speaker 1: But I can see how because a lot of us

472
00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:06,240
Speaker 1: in different ways, we're all individuals, but feel personal responsibilities

473
00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:10,320
Speaker 1: for the way that we contribute to society, and that

474
00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:15,080
Speaker 1: guilt can show up for being in that way. But yeah,

475
00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:20,080
Speaker 1: I do want to affirm the role of storytellers in

476
00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:24,560
Speaker 1: the world, and black storytellers within our various black communities

477
00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:28,560
Speaker 1: as well, because and just tell storytellers that, like, you're

478
00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:32,560
Speaker 1: perfect as you are, not that we don't have things

479
00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:34,639
Speaker 1: that we all work on. We can all work on,

480
00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:46,400
Speaker 1: but it's not that serious. It's not period. I noticed

481
00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:48,959
Speaker 1: music came up a lot in your letter, too, like

482
00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:53,600
Speaker 1: things like melody and like even when it wasn't expressly

483
00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:57,040
Speaker 1: about music, like the bouncing and the rhythm of like

484
00:28:57,080 --> 00:28:59,360
Speaker 1: bouncing on the hip, bouncing on the knee. And I

485
00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:01,760
Speaker 1: was like, I can help but smile when when you

486
00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:03,840
Speaker 1: talk about about something hippen any because that just feels

487
00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:10,080
Speaker 1: so familial, convivial, And I just think about moments around

488
00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:14,640
Speaker 1: of being around a lot of black people, like cookouts,

489
00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:20,920
Speaker 1: like family reunions, where black story stories are being created

490
00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:21,720
Speaker 1: in those moments.

491
00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:28,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And it's like I think, and sometimes I'm

492
00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:30,720
Speaker 2: not living in the moment because I'm thinking like, oh,

493
00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:34,360
Speaker 2: this is a moment. We're gonna remember this, we're gonna

494
00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:38,320
Speaker 2: be talking about this, or I mean recently, something that's

495
00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:42,600
Speaker 2: been kind of jarring to me is like pictures that

496
00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:50,240
Speaker 2: I have taken being in obituaries and I'm like, I

497
00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:52,440
Speaker 2: remember when we took that picture and we were like

498
00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:56,560
Speaker 2: all alive and happy, and now it's on an obituary.

499
00:29:56,680 --> 00:29:58,320
Speaker 2: So now I'll take a picture like is this going

500
00:29:58,360 --> 00:29:59,120
Speaker 2: to be on a picture?

501
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:06,320
Speaker 1: Oh? My god, it's terrible and it may be, but

502
00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:09,480
Speaker 1: that's okay. That's the celebration of life.

503
00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:14,240
Speaker 2: Right, I don't know me sad so but yeah, so

504
00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:17,360
Speaker 2: like being in these moments that are just life until

505
00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:23,360
Speaker 2: they're a story. So yeah, I'm not very present sometimes,

506
00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:27,120
Speaker 2: but we can work on that, Yeah, meditate or something.

507
00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:30,840
Speaker 2: You have the line where it's like you didn't fall

508
00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:34,760
Speaker 2: for a black storytelling, but you like rose who said

509
00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:37,200
Speaker 2: that was it? Tony Morrison? Like I didn't fall in love.

510
00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:38,680
Speaker 1: I rose in it, I think so.

511
00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:44,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, I love how like quotes like that you can

512
00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:50,000
Speaker 2: like remix them and they're just like those iconic quotes. Yeah,

513
00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:55,320
Speaker 2: they kind of like seep into your into your bloodstreams, Like.

514
00:30:57,160 --> 00:31:01,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel that and that and I and I

515
00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:04,000
Speaker 1: did because I really did feel like that though, like

516
00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:06,480
Speaker 1: it wasn't like a tumble into it. It wasn't a

517
00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:09,000
Speaker 1: quick thing for me. I had to rise to the occasion.

518
00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:11,600
Speaker 1: I felt like over time. Yeah, it was like a

519
00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:14,080
Speaker 1: thing that I had to learn right, and then I

520
00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:17,960
Speaker 1: eventually started thinking about a lot more intentionally. So I

521
00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:22,040
Speaker 1: really did feel that way too. So it was like perfect. So, Katie,

522
00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:24,560
Speaker 1: what kind of black story do you want? To tell

523
00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:25,320
Speaker 1: with this podcast.

524
00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:33,120
Speaker 2: I would like to tell a multifaceted black story that

525
00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:39,880
Speaker 2: doesn't take itself too seriously, that experiments, and that it's

526
00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:47,040
Speaker 2: in conversation with other storytellers, both here and past.

527
00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:51,920
Speaker 1: How about you. I think I want to tell a

528
00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:56,080
Speaker 1: story with this podcast that different people can interpret it differently.

529
00:31:56,520 --> 00:31:59,240
Speaker 1: So I don't want to define anything for anybody else.

530
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:03,600
Speaker 1: I want to leave room open for questioning. I've been

531
00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:06,040
Speaker 1: thinking about this and like my guiding principle in life,

532
00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:08,920
Speaker 1: and like that's being applied to this podcast. It's like

533
00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:14,280
Speaker 1: care and curiosity. Care and curiosity because that allows for

534
00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:16,920
Speaker 1: the experimentation that you're talking about. I agree with you there,

535
00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:21,480
Speaker 1: but it's like care I think makes space for a mistake,

536
00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:26,880
Speaker 1: and like self improvement, gentleness, growth, and I think all

537
00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:29,120
Speaker 1: of those things are necessary when we're talking about something

538
00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:32,360
Speaker 1: that is shifting so frequently and means so many different

539
00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:34,760
Speaker 1: things to so many people. It means different things to

540
00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:38,720
Speaker 1: us in different moments. And then the curiosity, and like

541
00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:45,160
Speaker 1: I love, I love, and I've made a career and

542
00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:48,000
Speaker 1: a lifestyle out of like learning things all the time,

543
00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:52,000
Speaker 1: and I like that I'm able to go on that

544
00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:55,720
Speaker 1: journey through this podcast and also like open up other

545
00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:58,760
Speaker 1: people to that journey as well and share that with them,

546
00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:01,800
Speaker 1: and so like there's a share sense of curiosity in that,

547
00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:06,400
Speaker 1: and that means that we are able to go on

548
00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:11,360
Speaker 1: this journey together of understanding and of changing and of

549
00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:15,000
Speaker 1: transforming and creating new magic in the magic that we

550
00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:19,720
Speaker 1: are experiencing together. Yeah, did I answer the question? We did? Okay,

551
00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:23,960
Speaker 1: And we're excited to go on a journey with y'all. Yeah,

552
00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:29,640
Speaker 1: come along. We've got snacks, Katie got the drive Mango,

553
00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:34,800
Speaker 1: and I'm definitely coming. Okay.

554
00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:37,800
Speaker 2: Now it's time for roll credits, the segment where we

555
00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:41,240
Speaker 2: give credit to a person, place, or thing for the week.

556
00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:43,360
Speaker 2: Eves who are giving.

557
00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:46,400
Speaker 1: Credit to I like to give credit to all of

558
00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:49,440
Speaker 1: the unnamed people who we don't know about who are

559
00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:52,160
Speaker 1: black storytellers. So all of the people who have folk tales,

560
00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:55,800
Speaker 1: all of the stories that were passed down through oral storytelling,

561
00:33:56,720 --> 00:33:59,640
Speaker 1: all of the people who died before they could document

562
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:02,680
Speaker 1: the stories that they knew. Oh that's a big one.

563
00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:07,400
Speaker 1: All of the enslaved people who weren't able to express

564
00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:10,840
Speaker 1: themselves in the ways that they wanted to, all of

565
00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:20,200
Speaker 1: the misremembered wrongly remembered and the purposefully disregarded people who

566
00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:22,239
Speaker 1: had stories to tell. That's why I like to give

567
00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:23,000
Speaker 1: credit to today.

568
00:34:23,680 --> 00:34:26,759
Speaker 2: I'd like to give credit to the folks who are

569
00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:29,200
Speaker 2: a little bit scared, a little bit scared to tell

570
00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:33,360
Speaker 2: their story right now. And that's okay to be a

571
00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:36,880
Speaker 2: little scared. And I think that's an important part of

572
00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:39,480
Speaker 2: telling your story, is like not telling it at first.

573
00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:42,399
Speaker 2: So I want to give credit to the folks who

574
00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:44,840
Speaker 2: are like, should I tell it? Should I? Should?

575
00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:45,160
Speaker 1: I wait?

576
00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:50,920
Speaker 2: And I think perfect timing comes when you're ready, and

577
00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:53,320
Speaker 2: only you'll know when you're ready. But I want to

578
00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:56,719
Speaker 2: give give a shout out to them and let them

579
00:34:56,800 --> 00:34:59,160
Speaker 2: know that I'm excited to hear it once they decide

580
00:34:59,160 --> 00:34:59,439
Speaker 2: to share.

581
00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:08,480
Speaker 1: Lovely, So we'll see you all next week. Bye. On

582
00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:12,360
Speaker 1: Theme is a production of iHeartRadio and Fairweather Friends Media.

583
00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:16,040
Speaker 1: This episode was written by Eves Jeffco and Katie Mitchell.

584
00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:19,840
Speaker 1: It was edited and produced by Tari Harrison. Follow us

585
00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:23,319
Speaker 1: on Instagram at on Themeshow. You can also send us

586
00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:27,560
Speaker 1: an email at hello at on theeme dot Show. For

587
00:35:27,719 --> 00:35:32,120
Speaker 1: more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast,

588
00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:34,720
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows,