1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,600 Speaker 1: Hi guys, Nancy Grace here at Crime Stories. We work 2 00:00:03,840 --> 00:00:06,440 Speaker 1: so hard every day to stay in touch with you 3 00:00:06,760 --> 00:00:10,520 Speaker 1: and broadcast our program with the very latest crime and 4 00:00:10,640 --> 00:00:15,600 Speaker 1: justice news. Crime Stories our friends at Sirius XM now 5 00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:19,320 Speaker 1: making it even easier to get crime stories while so 6 00:00:19,360 --> 00:00:21,800 Speaker 1: many of us are doing our part to stay home 7 00:00:21,960 --> 00:00:25,040 Speaker 1: and stay safe. If you don't have a subscription to 8 00:00:25,120 --> 00:00:28,639 Speaker 1: Serious XM, here's your chance to listen for free. That's 9 00:00:28,720 --> 00:00:32,760 Speaker 1: right free. Just go to sirius XM dot com slash 10 00:00:33,200 --> 00:00:40,360 Speaker 1: stream free Sirius XM dot com slash stream free go 11 00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:44,880 Speaker 1: now you can listen through your phone, your computer, your laptop, 12 00:00:45,320 --> 00:00:49,680 Speaker 1: or any of your connected devices. Don't miss Crime Stories 13 00:00:49,720 --> 00:00:53,880 Speaker 1: every weekday at high noon Eastern Serious XM Channel one 14 00:00:54,120 --> 00:00:58,400 Speaker 1: eleven the Triumph Channel. Free listening runs till May fifteen. 15 00:00:59,120 --> 00:01:08,960 Speaker 1: Sirius XM, thank you for being our partner. How does 16 00:01:09,200 --> 00:01:17,600 Speaker 1: a lady doctor and her husband end up executed? Targeted, assassinated, 17 00:01:17,720 --> 00:01:29,160 Speaker 1: lying dead in a ditch? Crime Stories with Nancy Grace? 18 00:01:36,040 --> 00:01:40,280 Speaker 1: How does that happen? A lady doctor shot dead along 19 00:01:40,360 --> 00:01:45,640 Speaker 1: with her husband, no sign whatsoever of homicide, suicide packed 20 00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:50,880 Speaker 1: between them? Who would end a husband to shoot them dead? 21 00:01:50,960 --> 00:01:53,560 Speaker 1: On the side of the road, leaving their bodies in 22 00:01:53,640 --> 00:01:59,960 Speaker 1: a ditch. Take a listen now to WKOW news reporter 23 00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:04,600 Speaker 1: Andrew Meerka, we've learned the victims in yesterday's double homicide 24 00:02:04,800 --> 00:02:07,880 Speaker 1: where a UW doctor and her husband. The Dane County 25 00:02:07,880 --> 00:02:10,840 Speaker 1: Medical Examiner says fifty two year old doctor Beth Potter 26 00:02:11,120 --> 00:02:13,800 Speaker 1: and her husband, fifty seven year old Robin Carr, both 27 00:02:13,880 --> 00:02:18,480 Speaker 1: died of homicidal related trauma. UW Madison Police say someone 28 00:02:18,639 --> 00:02:22,000 Speaker 1: jogging through the arboretum around six thirty yesterday morning saw 29 00:02:22,120 --> 00:02:25,440 Speaker 1: Potter and car lying in a ditch. Car was pronounced 30 00:02:25,520 --> 00:02:28,320 Speaker 1: dead at the scene, while Potter died at the hospital. 31 00:02:28,720 --> 00:02:31,720 Speaker 1: Officers have worked around the clock to canvass the neighborhood 32 00:02:31,720 --> 00:02:34,959 Speaker 1: and trackdown leads, but so far still have no suspect. 33 00:02:35,160 --> 00:02:37,720 Speaker 1: Officers did confirm to twenty seven News that the killings 34 00:02:37,880 --> 00:02:41,080 Speaker 1: were targeted, though they're still investigating why. With me an 35 00:02:41,080 --> 00:02:44,720 Speaker 1: all star panel first of all renowned lawyer joining me 36 00:02:44,800 --> 00:02:50,280 Speaker 1: out of the LA jurisdiction. Troy Slayton has tried multiple 37 00:02:50,360 --> 00:02:57,200 Speaker 1: cases in multiple jurisdictions. Bobby Chicane, former FBI special agent, screenwriter, 38 00:02:57,440 --> 00:03:02,240 Speaker 1: Criminal Minds professor, Friend six Jacksonville State University, author of 39 00:03:02,280 --> 00:03:06,280 Speaker 1: Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, Joseph Scott, Morgan, death 40 00:03:06,320 --> 00:03:10,880 Speaker 1: investigator and renowned psychiatrists joining me out of the Atlanta jurisdiction, 41 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:14,840 Speaker 1: doctor Angela Arnold. But first to special guests joining us 42 00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:21,520 Speaker 1: from w MTV NBC fifteen Madison, Sierra Gillespie. Sierra, thank 43 00:03:21,520 --> 00:03:24,000 Speaker 1: you so much for being with us. Sierra, First of all, 44 00:03:24,440 --> 00:03:28,480 Speaker 1: explain what the lady doc and her husband were doing 45 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:31,720 Speaker 1: at an arboretum at that time of day, Hiny and C. Yeah, 46 00:03:31,760 --> 00:03:35,119 Speaker 1: that's something we're still working to find out. I mean, 47 00:03:35,160 --> 00:03:37,800 Speaker 1: we do know that doctor Bess Potter was very active, 48 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:41,400 Speaker 1: love to be outside. That's the jogging trail on the 49 00:03:41,440 --> 00:03:44,560 Speaker 1: campus of University of Wisconsin, Madison, but we don't know 50 00:03:44,680 --> 00:03:48,440 Speaker 1: for sure why they were there that morning. Interesting, Sierra 51 00:03:48,520 --> 00:03:52,280 Speaker 1: Gillespie WMTV. Why were they there because if it were 52 00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:58,560 Speaker 1: their usual jogging track, which I advise against, strongly against. 53 00:03:58,600 --> 00:04:01,200 Speaker 1: You know, Sierra Gillespie, I was doing a ton of 54 00:04:01,240 --> 00:04:04,000 Speaker 1: research for a book that's going to come out called 55 00:04:04,040 --> 00:04:06,839 Speaker 1: Don't Be a Victim, Fighting Back against America's Crime Wave, 56 00:04:07,240 --> 00:04:09,720 Speaker 1: and part of it is about staying safe while you're 57 00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:15,240 Speaker 1: exercising do not use the same route all the time. 58 00:04:16,600 --> 00:04:20,960 Speaker 1: That is what happened to Vanessa Marquette, that is what 59 00:04:21,040 --> 00:04:23,640 Speaker 1: happened to so many other people that use a regular 60 00:04:23,760 --> 00:04:27,279 Speaker 1: jogging path. And if you have somebody has a grudge 61 00:04:27,279 --> 00:04:30,440 Speaker 1: against you, or you're in a regular spot every day, 62 00:04:30,560 --> 00:04:35,719 Speaker 1: same time, you're a target for a killer. So I'm 63 00:04:35,720 --> 00:04:37,960 Speaker 1: just trying to figure out if that's what these two 64 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:41,360 Speaker 1: were doing there, or if it's something even more clandestine, 65 00:04:41,720 --> 00:04:45,520 Speaker 1: such as they were lured there. I'm interested. Sarah Sierra 66 00:04:45,560 --> 00:04:51,320 Speaker 1: Gillespie joining me from WMTV NBC fifteen Madison Sierra. Do 67 00:04:51,400 --> 00:04:55,520 Speaker 1: we know what they were wearing? Were they wearing jogging outfits, 68 00:04:55,800 --> 00:04:59,279 Speaker 1: running issues? Any idea? As of right now, that information 69 00:04:59,320 --> 00:05:01,800 Speaker 1: has not been at least I've been pushing police on 70 00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:04,840 Speaker 1: more details, but they have been pretty tight lipped about this, 71 00:05:05,320 --> 00:05:08,360 Speaker 1: so I'm not sure whether they were wearing job interesting. 72 00:05:08,720 --> 00:05:12,159 Speaker 1: Interesting and there's a reason for that. Former FBI special 73 00:05:12,240 --> 00:05:17,400 Speaker 1: agent screenwriter on Criminal Minds, Bobby each Cone with me, Bobby, 74 00:05:17,520 --> 00:05:20,800 Speaker 1: It's very important that for a period of time at least, 75 00:05:21,560 --> 00:05:26,000 Speaker 1: cops keep certain details close to the vest. Why explain that, 76 00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:29,240 Speaker 1: Why not release what they were wearing? Why not tell 77 00:05:29,279 --> 00:05:32,120 Speaker 1: the public all the information. Maybe the public could help. 78 00:05:32,320 --> 00:05:34,960 Speaker 1: There's a reason for it, Bobby each Cone, True, Nancy, 79 00:05:35,040 --> 00:05:37,400 Speaker 1: and I think you hit on it when you said 80 00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:39,279 Speaker 1: they could have been lowered there. I mean we want 81 00:05:39,400 --> 00:05:41,599 Speaker 1: as an investigator, we want to keep everything as close 82 00:05:41,640 --> 00:05:43,920 Speaker 1: to the vest all the time. The reason we release 83 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:46,279 Speaker 1: things for the public is if it invests, if it 84 00:05:46,320 --> 00:05:50,279 Speaker 1: aids the investigation. And so when we bring somebody into custody, 85 00:05:50,440 --> 00:05:53,200 Speaker 1: they have all kinds of stories. They'll deny what they did, 86 00:05:53,240 --> 00:05:57,120 Speaker 1: they'll denye where they were, and when we question them, 87 00:05:57,200 --> 00:06:00,720 Speaker 1: we want to be able to test they of their 88 00:06:00,720 --> 00:06:03,400 Speaker 1: statements to us. And the more we put out in public, 89 00:06:03,560 --> 00:06:07,520 Speaker 1: the more they can form their story or their baby 90 00:06:07,600 --> 00:06:10,000 Speaker 1: or whatever it is to fit the facts as they 91 00:06:10,080 --> 00:06:12,960 Speaker 1: know they are based on what's been released to the press. 92 00:06:13,040 --> 00:06:15,760 Speaker 1: So we try to keep very early on an investigation, 93 00:06:15,960 --> 00:06:18,240 Speaker 1: even before we have somebody to talk to a question 94 00:06:18,279 --> 00:06:20,560 Speaker 1: about it, as close to the vest, so that when 95 00:06:20,640 --> 00:06:23,880 Speaker 1: they start trying to explain their whereabouts or explain their behavior, 96 00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:27,280 Speaker 1: they're not doing it to try to conform to what 97 00:06:27,320 --> 00:06:31,160 Speaker 1: they know. We already know. Choice Layton, don't you just 98 00:06:31,360 --> 00:06:35,200 Speaker 1: love it when your client is being questioned by police, 99 00:06:35,240 --> 00:06:37,320 Speaker 1: of course before you get there to make it be quiet, 100 00:06:38,440 --> 00:06:41,520 Speaker 1: and they blurt out something like I didn't know they're 101 00:06:41,520 --> 00:06:45,000 Speaker 1: going to be jogging that day, when that hasn't been 102 00:06:45,040 --> 00:06:50,160 Speaker 1: released and only the killer would know that detail. Doesn't 103 00:06:50,200 --> 00:06:52,760 Speaker 1: that just strike a chord in you, choice, Laton, when 104 00:06:52,760 --> 00:06:55,200 Speaker 1: you see that in the transcript of what your client 105 00:06:55,279 --> 00:06:58,640 Speaker 1: has said. Well, that's why I always tell my clients 106 00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:03,040 Speaker 1: that nothing good from talking to the police. And even 107 00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:07,200 Speaker 1: in the situation where my client has done nothing wrong, 108 00:07:07,320 --> 00:07:09,800 Speaker 1: Oh that's every time. Because you've never had a guilty client, 109 00:07:09,880 --> 00:07:14,200 Speaker 1: have you most of the time, no, Nancy, But even 110 00:07:14,240 --> 00:07:19,040 Speaker 1: innocent people can sometimes get themselves embroiled in something by 111 00:07:19,440 --> 00:07:23,720 Speaker 1: speaking to the police, because the police not good investigators 112 00:07:23,720 --> 00:07:28,200 Speaker 1: like Bobby Chacone, but others can take innocent stories and 113 00:07:28,320 --> 00:07:31,600 Speaker 1: twist them to match the facts of a case. You know, 114 00:07:31,880 --> 00:07:35,360 Speaker 1: it's interesting, choice, Lytton. I used to tell my juries 115 00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:38,640 Speaker 1: when I would do closing statements, not openings, because those 116 00:07:38,640 --> 00:07:43,880 Speaker 1: are limited the facts. But in argument at closing, for instance, 117 00:07:43,880 --> 00:07:47,600 Speaker 1: if I would have a defendant run, I would very 118 00:07:47,600 --> 00:07:50,120 Speaker 1: clearly say to the jury, you know, when you see 119 00:07:50,120 --> 00:07:52,520 Speaker 1: a state trooper come up behind you on the interstate 120 00:07:52,920 --> 00:07:55,320 Speaker 1: what do you do hit the pedal to the mettle 121 00:07:55,360 --> 00:07:58,920 Speaker 1: and take off at one hundred mph? No, because you 122 00:07:58,960 --> 00:08:02,280 Speaker 1: don't need to flee. So why did this guy the 123 00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:05,760 Speaker 1: minute he sees the cops take off running nothing but 124 00:08:05,880 --> 00:08:08,280 Speaker 1: tailhole and elbows. That's all they could see. You ran 125 00:08:08,400 --> 00:08:11,760 Speaker 1: off in the distance. Why why run? So it's what 126 00:08:11,840 --> 00:08:16,119 Speaker 1: you're saying, Bobby Chicoon. Did you hear that nothing good 127 00:08:16,160 --> 00:08:19,800 Speaker 1: comes out of talking to police? I talked to police. 128 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:23,200 Speaker 1: I don't take off at one hundred mph. So, yeah, 129 00:08:23,840 --> 00:08:25,760 Speaker 1: you know, Troy does an excellent shot for his clients. 130 00:08:25,760 --> 00:08:28,320 Speaker 1: But you know that's the that's the problem that we 131 00:08:28,400 --> 00:08:32,439 Speaker 1: have is that you're a problem. Troy. You're a problem. Yeah. 132 00:08:32,559 --> 00:08:35,240 Speaker 1: We you know, we need early an investigation. We need 133 00:08:35,280 --> 00:08:37,720 Speaker 1: everybody to be as honest and open as we can. 134 00:08:38,320 --> 00:08:41,280 Speaker 1: And you know, I think that personally in my in 135 00:08:41,360 --> 00:08:44,240 Speaker 1: my career of many many good things have happened to 136 00:08:44,280 --> 00:08:46,640 Speaker 1: people because they've talked to the police and talked to me. 137 00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:49,200 Speaker 1: And you know what, Bobby Chicoon, I will never forget 138 00:08:49,520 --> 00:08:53,079 Speaker 1: when you and I first taught in depth, you were 139 00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:57,520 Speaker 1: in charge of a rescue, well, a recovery mission of 140 00:08:57,559 --> 00:09:01,840 Speaker 1: a young girl that have been kidnapped from a coffee stand. 141 00:09:02,440 --> 00:09:06,320 Speaker 1: She had been raped, she had been murdered. You were 142 00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:10,080 Speaker 1: trying to find her body. You ended up deep diving 143 00:09:10,360 --> 00:09:15,040 Speaker 1: in subzero water to pull up body parts in plastic bags. 144 00:09:15,280 --> 00:09:28,440 Speaker 1: You know what you're talking about, as do you. Troy 145 00:09:30,320 --> 00:09:34,000 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, for those of you 146 00:09:34,080 --> 00:09:38,360 Speaker 1: just joining us, we are talking about doctor Beth Potter 147 00:09:38,760 --> 00:09:45,320 Speaker 1: and her husband Robin apparently targeted for assassination in a ditch. 148 00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:49,320 Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, take a listen to what 149 00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:53,600 Speaker 1: friends say about these two. Who would want them assassinate? 150 00:09:53,720 --> 00:09:56,640 Speaker 1: Think about your favorite neighbor and then you find out 151 00:09:56,640 --> 00:09:59,400 Speaker 1: they've been shot dead, targeted in a ditch. This is 152 00:09:59,400 --> 00:10:04,000 Speaker 1: a wm TV NBC fifteen. Our friend, Sierra Gillespie. The 153 00:10:04,040 --> 00:10:07,199 Speaker 1: scene of the UW Arboretum is quiet today, but just 154 00:10:07,480 --> 00:10:10,880 Speaker 1: two days ago, the bodies of Robin Carry and his wife, 155 00:10:10,960 --> 00:10:14,520 Speaker 1: doctor Beth Potter were found in the Arboretum ditch. Friends 156 00:10:14,559 --> 00:10:16,960 Speaker 1: we spoke to say they're still coming to terms with 157 00:10:17,040 --> 00:10:22,040 Speaker 1: this loss. There are Noah's family. Friends call the loss devastating, 158 00:10:22,320 --> 00:10:25,800 Speaker 1: saying fifty two year old doctor Beth Potter and fifty 159 00:10:25,840 --> 00:10:29,400 Speaker 1: seven year old Robin Carry were staples of the community. 160 00:10:29,720 --> 00:10:33,520 Speaker 1: Potter worked as a doctor with UW Health, recently taking 161 00:10:33,559 --> 00:10:37,600 Speaker 1: the lead on COVID nineteen care for employee health. Friends 162 00:10:37,640 --> 00:10:41,400 Speaker 1: say social distancing makes news of their deaths harder to 163 00:10:41,400 --> 00:10:44,000 Speaker 1: cope with. I would say it's devastating because everybody wants 164 00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:47,800 Speaker 1: to get together and celebrate his life and support one 165 00:10:47,800 --> 00:10:50,920 Speaker 1: another and this tough time. The pair had three children 166 00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:55,000 Speaker 1: and spent many hours supporting their love of soccer, carry 167 00:10:55,200 --> 00:10:59,719 Speaker 1: even acting as coach. He had a love and enthusiasm 168 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:02,600 Speaker 1: game with everything you did, all the people he knew, 169 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:06,360 Speaker 1: you know, I immediately thought Sierra Gillespie joining me special 170 00:11:06,360 --> 00:11:11,520 Speaker 1: guest WMTV, NBC fifteen there in Madison. I immediately thought 171 00:11:11,559 --> 00:11:17,040 Speaker 1: of my son's basketball coach and he's been his coach 172 00:11:17,120 --> 00:11:21,280 Speaker 1: now for years, and his soccer coach and my daughter's 173 00:11:21,480 --> 00:11:27,000 Speaker 1: volleyball coaches. I love them. And You've got a special 174 00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:30,200 Speaker 1: place in heaven to be a coach to, for instance, 175 00:11:30,240 --> 00:11:33,600 Speaker 1: little league. And I'm thinking about these two. I mean, 176 00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:36,480 Speaker 1: who could be more scrubbed in sunshine than a doctor 177 00:11:36,600 --> 00:11:40,560 Speaker 1: fighting COVID nineteen and a soccer coach. For Pete's sake, 178 00:11:40,800 --> 00:11:44,000 Speaker 1: what do we know about these two? And Siah Sierra Gillespie. 179 00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:50,160 Speaker 1: I'm asking because very often you identify a killer based 180 00:11:50,200 --> 00:11:54,040 Speaker 1: on the circle of associates of the victim. You start 181 00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:56,880 Speaker 1: with the family, then you start moving out. So what 182 00:11:57,000 --> 00:12:00,240 Speaker 1: do we really know, Sierra Gillespie. I mean, I just 183 00:12:00,280 --> 00:12:05,400 Speaker 1: covered a case where this local DJ, April Kaufman I 184 00:12:05,440 --> 00:12:09,440 Speaker 1: think was her name, was married to an upstanding doctor 185 00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:11,880 Speaker 1: or had his own clinic or to the hospital. How 186 00:12:11,920 --> 00:12:15,840 Speaker 1: did we know he was selling oxy to Hell's Angels 187 00:12:16,360 --> 00:12:20,280 Speaker 1: and he had a drug ring going. Nobody knew. So 188 00:12:20,360 --> 00:12:23,760 Speaker 1: what can you tell me about these victims? The only 189 00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:26,959 Speaker 1: thing I hear about them, it's all wonderful. Yeah. Actually, 190 00:12:26,960 --> 00:12:28,800 Speaker 1: some of the friends that I spoke with you heard 191 00:12:28,880 --> 00:12:31,520 Speaker 1: him in that story. I asked him what do you 192 00:12:31,559 --> 00:12:34,760 Speaker 1: want them to be remembered for? And he said, honestly, 193 00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:37,520 Speaker 1: it would be very difficult for you to find somebody 194 00:12:37,559 --> 00:12:39,800 Speaker 1: who could say something bad about them. They were just 195 00:12:40,040 --> 00:12:43,880 Speaker 1: really good people. I mean, for twenty years, Robin Carry 196 00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:47,400 Speaker 1: was coaching soccer in the Madison area, give three kids, 197 00:12:47,400 --> 00:12:49,520 Speaker 1: and that's from when they were about five or six 198 00:12:49,760 --> 00:12:53,360 Speaker 1: until I mean graduating high school. Thousands of kids he 199 00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:56,640 Speaker 1: was coaching and working with their parents and honestly. I mean, 200 00:12:56,720 --> 00:12:58,760 Speaker 1: like you were talking about with your kids, these people 201 00:12:58,880 --> 00:13:01,640 Speaker 1: or angels to work with young children and to form 202 00:13:01,720 --> 00:13:05,120 Speaker 1: them and to learn all the rules and regulations. I mean, 203 00:13:05,160 --> 00:13:07,320 Speaker 1: you learn a lot out of sports, more than just 204 00:13:07,400 --> 00:13:10,240 Speaker 1: the actual game. So that was Robin Carry and his wife, 205 00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:12,960 Speaker 1: doctor Bess Potter. I mean we touched on it there too, 206 00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:16,440 Speaker 1: just days before her murder. She was working on COVID 207 00:13:16,559 --> 00:13:19,679 Speaker 1: nineteen research. I mean, she really cares about the community. 208 00:13:20,080 --> 00:13:23,679 Speaker 1: She was a prominent professor here at w Madison. And 209 00:13:23,760 --> 00:13:26,240 Speaker 1: another thing that friends were telling me to these people 210 00:13:26,280 --> 00:13:28,920 Speaker 1: were pillars of the community. They were a big deal 211 00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:32,440 Speaker 1: here and they really cared about the Madison area. You 212 00:13:32,520 --> 00:13:34,800 Speaker 1: know what, Sierra Gillespie, I'm sure you didn't maintay, but 213 00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:38,480 Speaker 1: you're really hurting me. I'll tell you why. Doctor Angela 214 00:13:38,640 --> 00:13:44,520 Speaker 1: Arnold is a renowned psychiatrist in the Atlanta jurisdiction. Doctor Angela, 215 00:13:44,520 --> 00:13:46,679 Speaker 1: I had to wrestle with this for the first time 216 00:13:47,720 --> 00:13:50,720 Speaker 1: as really a young girl when my fiance was Martyred. 217 00:13:51,720 --> 00:13:57,160 Speaker 1: Keith was like a ray of sunshine. Couldn't be more 218 00:13:57,360 --> 00:14:05,000 Speaker 1: good natured, smart, handsome. On baseball scholarship, I mean, you 219 00:14:05,040 --> 00:14:11,360 Speaker 1: couldn't ask for anyone sweeter or better heart than him. 220 00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:15,960 Speaker 1: And then he's murdered by somebody that worked on a 221 00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:19,600 Speaker 1: construction crew, got fired the week before Keith started his job. 222 00:14:20,480 --> 00:14:24,800 Speaker 1: And we always hear that question, doctor Angela, why do 223 00:14:24,880 --> 00:14:28,800 Speaker 1: bad things happened to good people? I still don't understand it. 224 00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:31,240 Speaker 1: I mean, I accept it, but I don't understand it, 225 00:14:31,280 --> 00:14:35,560 Speaker 1: doctor Angela. And this left this community struggling with these 226 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:38,440 Speaker 1: two murders. Well, I don't think we're ever going to 227 00:14:38,520 --> 00:14:42,440 Speaker 1: completely understand it, Nancy. But if but if the tourers 228 00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:44,720 Speaker 1: were trying, and I don't know, but if the killers 229 00:14:44,760 --> 00:14:47,600 Speaker 1: were trying to make some sort of statement, then who 230 00:14:47,720 --> 00:14:50,720 Speaker 1: better to kill than the pillers of the society. That's 231 00:14:50,760 --> 00:14:54,400 Speaker 1: a heck of a statement. What statement? I've just got 232 00:14:54,400 --> 00:14:57,320 Speaker 1: to think, to Joe Scott Morgan, following up on what 233 00:14:57,400 --> 00:15:01,000 Speaker 1: doctor Angela Arnold just said, this is more than just 234 00:15:01,080 --> 00:15:05,920 Speaker 1: some statement. It's not about COVID nineteen, it's not about soccer. 235 00:15:06,520 --> 00:15:11,800 Speaker 1: So when you are presented, Joe Scott Morgan, with an 236 00:15:11,920 --> 00:15:18,720 Speaker 1: outdoor crime scene, that's a whole different animal than a 237 00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:21,840 Speaker 1: contained crime scene, such as in somebody's basement or their 238 00:15:21,880 --> 00:15:25,280 Speaker 1: garage or their car. When you've got two dead bodies 239 00:15:25,280 --> 00:15:29,120 Speaker 1: in a ditch, You've got a serious crime scene challenge. 240 00:15:29,360 --> 00:15:33,680 Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan. Yeah, it's important. You've mentioned the word 241 00:15:33,680 --> 00:15:37,360 Speaker 1: ditch several times. That goes to my thought that there 242 00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:43,360 Speaker 1: was a potential attempt, at least superficially, to conceal what 243 00:15:43,560 --> 00:15:46,800 Speaker 1: had been done they're put into. They're referring to a ditch. 244 00:15:47,160 --> 00:15:49,280 Speaker 1: I don't know if it's actually a ditch as we 245 00:15:49,320 --> 00:15:51,400 Speaker 1: think about. It might be a depressed area, but my 246 00:15:51,480 --> 00:15:54,080 Speaker 1: suspicion is it's running along the side of one of 247 00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:57,640 Speaker 1: these walking trails. Now, from an evidentury standpoint, let's say, 248 00:15:57,640 --> 00:16:01,200 Speaker 1: for instance, they were walked out there. They were just 249 00:16:01,280 --> 00:16:05,960 Speaker 1: taken to that isolated location. Why so close to the road, 250 00:16:06,160 --> 00:16:09,400 Speaker 1: you know, why would you do it there? Or were 251 00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:13,880 Speaker 1: the individuals laying in wait for these individuals, say, for instance, 252 00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:18,280 Speaker 1: the people are persons that might have targeted them. And 253 00:16:18,400 --> 00:16:21,160 Speaker 1: that's another word that keeps coming up over and over 254 00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:24,440 Speaker 1: and over again. If they were waiting out there, we're 255 00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:28,000 Speaker 1: gonna have evidence, say, for instance, like footprints, because this 256 00:16:28,080 --> 00:16:30,200 Speaker 1: is a nature area. We're talking about soft kind of 257 00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:33,880 Speaker 1: malleable dirt, an arboretum, and for anybody that doesn't know 258 00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:39,360 Speaker 1: arboretum is like a botanical garden that's specifically devoted to trees. 259 00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:43,600 Speaker 1: That's my understanding of what an arboretum is. Go go ahead, Yeah, 260 00:16:43,640 --> 00:16:45,760 Speaker 1: And so the soil is going to be very kind 261 00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:48,040 Speaker 1: of loamy and soft and that sort of thing. And 262 00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:50,960 Speaker 1: if you have safe, for instance, a couple of people 263 00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:53,600 Speaker 1: or one person that's waiting behind a tree and an 264 00:16:53,760 --> 00:16:57,080 Speaker 1: area of concealment, if you can identify that area, you 265 00:16:57,120 --> 00:17:01,640 Speaker 1: can go and look and see if they're our footprints, 266 00:17:01,640 --> 00:17:04,280 Speaker 1: say that have been left behind or other items, Say 267 00:17:04,320 --> 00:17:06,480 Speaker 1: they were smoking a cigarette and they dropped it there 268 00:17:06,480 --> 00:17:09,840 Speaker 1: while they were waiting. How long had they been waiting there? 269 00:17:10,080 --> 00:17:13,119 Speaker 1: And why go to the trouble of placing these individuals, 270 00:17:13,160 --> 00:17:16,400 Speaker 1: these victims in a ditch. That those are two big 271 00:17:16,440 --> 00:17:20,320 Speaker 1: questions that come up with me, Bobby Chicone. Couldn't you 272 00:17:20,359 --> 00:17:22,680 Speaker 1: tell from the crime scene whether they had been killed 273 00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:26,159 Speaker 1: elsewhere and disposed of in the ditch or whether they 274 00:17:26,200 --> 00:17:29,200 Speaker 1: were killed in the ditch? And unlike in a contained 275 00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:31,960 Speaker 1: crime scene such as in a bedroom or in a 276 00:17:32,040 --> 00:17:34,200 Speaker 1: car or in the basement, you're not going to be 277 00:17:34,280 --> 00:17:38,800 Speaker 1: able to get, for instance, blood spatter versus blood drops, 278 00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:43,280 Speaker 1: which are a big difference evidentiary wise, it's going to 279 00:17:43,359 --> 00:17:48,000 Speaker 1: be a more difficult feat to figure out what exactly 280 00:17:48,040 --> 00:17:50,920 Speaker 1: happened when you're out in nature. The blood seeps into 281 00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:54,879 Speaker 1: the ground, it's harder to find, the wind blows, the 282 00:17:55,280 --> 00:17:57,800 Speaker 1: soil is disturbed. How can you tell if they were 283 00:17:57,880 --> 00:18:01,600 Speaker 1: killed there or they were deposited there. Well, you're exactly right, Nancy. 284 00:18:01,720 --> 00:18:03,520 Speaker 1: It will be more difficult, and it will be more 285 00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:07,119 Speaker 1: difficult depending on the weather and how long they were there. Um. 286 00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:10,760 Speaker 1: But there are some telltale signs that will um will 287 00:18:10,800 --> 00:18:13,439 Speaker 1: take place. Like you said, did they have their jogging 288 00:18:13,440 --> 00:18:15,760 Speaker 1: clothes on? Were they out there? You'll look at their clothes, 289 00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:18,800 Speaker 1: will examine their clothes, what they had on them. Um. 290 00:18:18,920 --> 00:18:21,400 Speaker 1: We will be able to tell hopefully where they came 291 00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:24,600 Speaker 1: from in the immediate preceding hours, again depending on how 292 00:18:24,640 --> 00:18:27,119 Speaker 1: long they were there and the weather that was was 293 00:18:27,320 --> 00:18:30,200 Speaker 1: existed while they were there. Um. But there are certain 294 00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:31,960 Speaker 1: things we will tell. You will not be able to 295 00:18:31,960 --> 00:18:35,000 Speaker 1: tell as much obviously as an indoor crime scene that 296 00:18:35,080 --> 00:18:38,000 Speaker 1: was static and that was preserved. Um. There are a 297 00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:39,960 Speaker 1: few things that are that are vital that you might 298 00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:42,040 Speaker 1: be able to tell and might be able to to 299 00:18:42,040 --> 00:18:46,560 Speaker 1: to um to determine and that is were they jogging, um? 300 00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:48,959 Speaker 1: Were they in a car recently? Were they you know, 301 00:18:49,040 --> 00:18:51,520 Speaker 1: were they outdoors you know, for for an extended period 302 00:18:51,520 --> 00:18:53,880 Speaker 1: of time. So there are things and all of those 303 00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:57,560 Speaker 1: pieces will be gathered as much as they can UM 304 00:18:57,680 --> 00:18:59,800 Speaker 1: and to build the story of what happened in the 305 00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:16,479 Speaker 1: seating hours you know, before their deaths. Prime stories with 306 00:19:16,600 --> 00:19:22,359 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. Guys, how does a college professor doing COVID 307 00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:28,720 Speaker 1: nineteen research and her husband, soccer coach for years end 308 00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:33,320 Speaker 1: up executed in a ditch at an arboretum, a botanical garden. 309 00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:37,800 Speaker 1: Nobody saw anything, Nobody knows anything. Take a listen now 310 00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:42,080 Speaker 1: to our friends at wi SC Channel three, Madeline O'Neill 311 00:19:42,359 --> 00:19:45,240 Speaker 1: u W police tell me they have no update today 312 00:19:45,320 --> 00:19:48,480 Speaker 1: as they continue the search for a suspect or suspects 313 00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:51,960 Speaker 1: in the deaths of Beth Potter and Robin carry Here 314 00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:55,200 Speaker 1: at the arboretum, a double homicide they say was targeted. 315 00:19:55,520 --> 00:19:57,800 Speaker 1: People I spoke with today close to the two say 316 00:19:57,840 --> 00:20:01,560 Speaker 1: the husband and wife were amazing parents of three and 317 00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:04,320 Speaker 1: the loss of them was leaving a really big hole. 318 00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:08,479 Speaker 1: He was definitely missed when he wasn't here. Robin Carry 319 00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:12,200 Speaker 1: was always around at training four Warriors, the fitness program 320 00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:15,000 Speaker 1: referred to as a dojo in Middleton, something fellow Jim 321 00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:21,760 Speaker 1: Goers took to heart. He's always dollars, had something to say. 322 00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:24,120 Speaker 1: And then even though what was going on in the play, 323 00:20:24,280 --> 00:20:28,919 Speaker 1: always something and it was it was a dit to 324 00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:30,920 Speaker 1: be your argument. We have a swear jar and it's 325 00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:34,320 Speaker 1: a dollar for the word can't. And he would put 326 00:20:34,320 --> 00:20:38,960 Speaker 1: a dollar in safe because he didn't want to do 327 00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:43,680 Speaker 1: chin ups. That's a tiny peak into the psyches of 328 00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:46,960 Speaker 1: these two murder victims. They a lot of people have 329 00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:49,960 Speaker 1: a swear jar in their home. If you say an 330 00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:52,520 Speaker 1: ugly word, you have to put in a dollar. Their 331 00:20:52,600 --> 00:20:57,400 Speaker 1: swear word was can't. I can't And one of them 332 00:20:57,440 --> 00:20:59,560 Speaker 1: put in ten dollars ahead of time in case. He said. 333 00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:04,800 Speaker 1: We are trying to unravel the mystery of a college 334 00:21:04,840 --> 00:21:09,520 Speaker 1: professor and her husband found dead in a ditch, and 335 00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:12,120 Speaker 1: I think of my sister, who is a college professor, 336 00:21:12,480 --> 00:21:17,840 Speaker 1: a real brainiac, with her nose in a book, constantly 337 00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:22,280 Speaker 1: researching and writing and teaching classes. Who in the world 338 00:21:22,280 --> 00:21:26,040 Speaker 1: would want to gun down a college professor and her 339 00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:30,560 Speaker 1: soccer coach husband, who would do something like that. We 340 00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:35,359 Speaker 1: are left with trying to analyze the clues left in 341 00:21:35,680 --> 00:21:39,760 Speaker 1: a ditch, a ditch police being extremely close to the 342 00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:42,199 Speaker 1: vest in the case. But when you look at the 343 00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:46,439 Speaker 1: personalities of doctor Beth Potter and her husband, Robin Carey, 344 00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:50,320 Speaker 1: who in the world would have targeted them. Now, I'm 345 00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:53,679 Speaker 1: sure you all remember the case of Tara Grinstead, the 346 00:21:54,280 --> 00:21:59,040 Speaker 1: Beauty Queen high school teacher working on her master's degree 347 00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:04,040 Speaker 1: who goes missing and has never seen alive again after 348 00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:10,840 Speaker 1: a school barbecue. Years passed before the killer was traced 349 00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:15,439 Speaker 1: back to being wonderful student years before she was killed. 350 00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:19,960 Speaker 1: So too, doctor Angela Arnold, psychiatrists joining me from the 351 00:22:19,960 --> 00:22:24,320 Speaker 1: Atlanta area. Doctor Arnold, you never know in that case, 352 00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:30,080 Speaker 1: Tera Grinstead's killer was one of her students years before. 353 00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:35,120 Speaker 1: Now we have doctor Beth Potter, a professor there in Wisconsin. 354 00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:39,000 Speaker 1: I think the reason they're saying they're targeted, Doctor Angela Arnold, 355 00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:41,960 Speaker 1: is because there's no rape. There's no sex attack, and 356 00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:46,359 Speaker 1: apparently no robbery. So with no robbery and no rape, 357 00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:49,720 Speaker 1: no sex attack, what's the potential motive to kill somebody 358 00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:52,960 Speaker 1: out in the open and leave their bodies hidden in 359 00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:56,880 Speaker 1: a ditch. You never know who you're teaching, who you're 360 00:22:56,920 --> 00:23:01,200 Speaker 1: working with that may be murderous. Doctor Angela Arnold. It's 361 00:23:01,359 --> 00:23:04,200 Speaker 1: very scary, isn't it. And Nancy, one of the one 362 00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:07,359 Speaker 1: of the questions that's just going through my mind is 363 00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:10,359 Speaker 1: could this could this have been some sort of gang 364 00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:16,360 Speaker 1: related activity? Could this could this have been a gang initiation? 365 00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:19,399 Speaker 1: I find it really hard to believe, Bobby Chico, that 366 00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:25,240 Speaker 1: gangman members are hanging out at an arboretum, the botanical gardens. Yeah. 367 00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:27,359 Speaker 1: Having work gangs in New York City in the eighties, 368 00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:29,760 Speaker 1: I don't it doesn't seem to me like it would 369 00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:32,639 Speaker 1: be the type of gang initiations. When they do try 370 00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:36,320 Speaker 1: to initiate members by pulling off a violent crime, it's 371 00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:39,320 Speaker 1: usually a violent crime that's consistent with other activities of 372 00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:41,600 Speaker 1: the gang. It'll be a robbery or drug robbery or 373 00:23:42,160 --> 00:23:44,480 Speaker 1: something like that. On those lines. It will also be 374 00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:49,439 Speaker 1: a victim unfortunately that is benefits the gang to be killed. 375 00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:51,679 Speaker 1: It'll be a rival gang member, or it'll be a 376 00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:55,160 Speaker 1: store owner that hasn't paid extortion money or something like that. 377 00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:59,440 Speaker 1: It'll be something at least peripherbly related to the gang activities. Guys, 378 00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:03,600 Speaker 1: we are talking about the shocking murders of a college 379 00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:09,080 Speaker 1: professor fighting COVID nineteen through research and her husband both 380 00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:14,000 Speaker 1: found dead slang shot dead in a ditch, and then 381 00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:18,320 Speaker 1: a stunning turn in the case. Take a listen to 382 00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:24,400 Speaker 1: our friends at mass and PD. This is Chief Kristen Roman. Understandably, 383 00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:28,439 Speaker 1: a violent crime such as this creates significant concern and 384 00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:32,439 Speaker 1: fear throughout the community. To this, I offer that the 385 00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:35,840 Speaker 1: suspect is known to the family. We believe that this 386 00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:40,200 Speaker 1: was not a random act. It was calculated, cold blooded 387 00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:43,800 Speaker 1: and senseless, and we will continue to do all we 388 00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:47,520 Speaker 1: can to bring justice to Robin and Beth, their family, 389 00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:52,679 Speaker 1: and their loved ones. While this arrest is a significant development, 390 00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:56,719 Speaker 1: no criminal investigation ends at the point of an arrest. 391 00:24:57,320 --> 00:25:01,400 Speaker 1: This remains a very active police investiga and I encourage 392 00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:04,720 Speaker 1: anyone who may yet have information about this case to 393 00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:09,280 Speaker 1: contact us. A sudden and unexpected arrest goes down in 394 00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:13,800 Speaker 1: the case. But what do we know, Jackie. Let's go 395 00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:17,880 Speaker 1: to cut seven. This is NBC fifteen NIJE reporter. Our 396 00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:22,679 Speaker 1: friend joining us today, Sierra Gillespie, eighteen year old Cary Sandford. 397 00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:25,320 Speaker 1: What we do know? He was a senior here at 398 00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:29,320 Speaker 1: Madison West High School and personally knew Robin Carry and 399 00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:35,040 Speaker 1: doctor Beth Potter's family. It was calculated, cold blooded, and senseless. 400 00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:39,639 Speaker 1: Police say Sandford specifically targeted Carry and Potter. What we 401 00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:42,720 Speaker 1: don't know is why a jograph found the couple in 402 00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:46,280 Speaker 1: a ditch early Tuesday morning. Since that time, we have 403 00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:51,520 Speaker 1: worked tirelessly to investigate this heinous crime and find those responsible. 404 00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:56,119 Speaker 1: NBC fifteen has confirmed Sandford played football at Madison West 405 00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:59,479 Speaker 1: High School, where the couple's daughter, Mimi goes to school. 406 00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:03,480 Speaker 1: Court record show officers arrested Stanford last year on a 407 00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:07,360 Speaker 1: Class A misdemeanor account of auto theft. We will continue 408 00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:10,160 Speaker 1: to do all we can to bring justice to Robin 409 00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:14,520 Speaker 1: and Beth, their family, and their loved ones. Wow. Okay, 410 00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:20,000 Speaker 1: an unexpected arrest of a young man, a teen and 411 00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:22,480 Speaker 1: this is what we know to Sierra Gillespie special guests 412 00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:28,360 Speaker 1: joining us from WMTV NBC fifty Madison. So the killer 413 00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:33,040 Speaker 1: went to school with the victim's daughter, went to high 414 00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:36,159 Speaker 1: school with Mimi the daughter. Yeah, So what we know 415 00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:39,359 Speaker 1: is he went to Madison West High School and Mimi 416 00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:42,359 Speaker 1: is still a student there right now. We also know 417 00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:47,159 Speaker 1: that Robin Carry helped coach with the Madison West Soccer club, 418 00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:50,040 Speaker 1: so we know that they were both very involved with 419 00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:53,880 Speaker 1: the area, and this eighteen year old carry Sandford, had 420 00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:56,320 Speaker 1: to have known the family. We also do know from 421 00:26:56,320 --> 00:27:00,199 Speaker 1: his Facebook he was friends with Mimi, the daughter. They 422 00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:02,359 Speaker 1: had had a couple of comments back and forth together, 423 00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:05,640 Speaker 1: so we knew that they definitely had a relation together. Okay, 424 00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:09,680 Speaker 1: hold on, whoa, whoa, whoa, Sierra Gillespie. As this is unfolding, 425 00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:13,919 Speaker 1: the only connection we really see is that the alleged 426 00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:19,639 Speaker 1: trigger man, eighteen year old went to school with the 427 00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:25,840 Speaker 1: victim's daughter, Mimi. And I understand that the dad coached 428 00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:29,960 Speaker 1: some at that school, but he coached soccer and this guy, 429 00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:33,240 Speaker 1: the trigger man, was a football player, so that he 430 00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:36,280 Speaker 1: would not have coached him. So the connection is the 431 00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:42,000 Speaker 1: teen daughter Mimi. Right, That's exactly right. Let me understand, 432 00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:47,000 Speaker 1: you know, off, I guess Facebook comments back and forth 433 00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:51,080 Speaker 1: between Mimi and the alleged trigger man, what kind of comments. 434 00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:54,320 Speaker 1: So some of his Facebook is kind of blocked off, 435 00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:57,600 Speaker 1: but from what I found before it was deactivated, she 436 00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:00,919 Speaker 1: had commented on one of his posts bay like the 437 00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:04,280 Speaker 1: abbreviation for before anyone else, and it had a little 438 00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:07,600 Speaker 1: emoji with a heart, so we know that they clearly 439 00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:10,960 Speaker 1: were familiar with each other. Were they dating that We 440 00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:13,280 Speaker 1: don't know for sure as of yet, but I mean 441 00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:17,480 Speaker 1: I don't call my friends bay. Wow. This is a 442 00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:22,080 Speaker 1: wrinkle in the case no one expected and opens up 443 00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:42,600 Speaker 1: a host of possibilities. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace for 444 00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:46,680 Speaker 1: those of you just joining us, I Nancy Grace, this 445 00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:49,440 Speaker 1: is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here 446 00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:54,040 Speaker 1: at Fox Nation. As well as Serious XM one eleven. 447 00:28:54,880 --> 00:29:00,240 Speaker 1: The circumstances surrounding the death of a college profess us 448 00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:05,000 Speaker 1: or and her husband have been murky. They are beginning 449 00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:09,960 Speaker 1: to clear up, you know. To Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics, 450 00:29:10,040 --> 00:29:17,400 Speaker 1: jacksonvill State, this was an illustration I almost always used 451 00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:25,480 Speaker 1: with juries. I started the case with a giant jar 452 00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:34,000 Speaker 1: of water, and it had silt at the bottom, and 453 00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:38,680 Speaker 1: as I began opening statements, I would shake it in 454 00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:44,520 Speaker 1: front of the jury and it would become muddy, set 455 00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:48,520 Speaker 1: it on my table and the case would start. At 456 00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:53,120 Speaker 1: the end of the case it would be clear again, 457 00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:57,280 Speaker 1: and as I argue the facts in closing statement, I 458 00:29:57,280 --> 00:30:01,880 Speaker 1: would hold it back up and say, see, it's not money. Anymore. 459 00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:08,000 Speaker 1: It's clear what happened. As we go through this case, 460 00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:12,800 Speaker 1: we are learning more and more. Joe Scott, what do 461 00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:17,760 Speaker 1: you make of these online exchanges between the trigger man 462 00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:22,920 Speaker 1: and the victim's daughter, Mimi, Not to suggest she's involved 463 00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:26,960 Speaker 1: in this in any way. Here's my thought, Nancy, if 464 00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:31,440 Speaker 1: if there is connectivity between these two and like you said, 465 00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:35,800 Speaker 1: this poor little girl who is now literally an orphan, 466 00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:40,080 Speaker 1: oh is not, you know, she's not. How old is 467 00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:44,120 Speaker 1: your son, Joe Scott, Well, he's just turned eighteen, Nancy, 468 00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:47,440 Speaker 1: I can't believe it. Mine just turned twelve. Can you 469 00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:55,720 Speaker 1: imagine then growing up without either parent as a young teen. Yeah, 470 00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:59,680 Speaker 1: it's hard to even comprehend that in this critical point 471 00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:05,120 Speaker 1: in their life, if an individual had developed an obsession over, 472 00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:09,960 Speaker 1: say this young girl, it could go to a motive. 473 00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:12,600 Speaker 1: I think one of the things we need to keep 474 00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:15,360 Speaker 1: in mind, Nancy, this is not some kind of a 475 00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:21,200 Speaker 1: passive event their desks. They've been charged with first degree homicide, 476 00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:25,920 Speaker 1: and you have the attack on two specific people. This 477 00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:29,120 Speaker 1: is a brutal killing, and so that goes to you 478 00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:31,760 Speaker 1: know why, you know, we keep talking about why the 479 00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:35,200 Speaker 1: world would somebody target these two individuals, Well, why would 480 00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:37,280 Speaker 1: you You know, it's like going in, you know and 481 00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:39,480 Speaker 1: pinching the heads off of roses. You know, why why 482 00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:42,280 Speaker 1: are you going to do that? To destroy something that's 483 00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:45,080 Speaker 1: so beautiful like this, You have to have a specific 484 00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:48,760 Speaker 1: motivation to just bring down this kind of wrath and 485 00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:51,960 Speaker 1: violence on two individuals that would end their life. So, 486 00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:54,080 Speaker 1: you know, one of the things we always look at 487 00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:58,280 Speaker 1: as investigators who is in that circle and who are 488 00:31:58,360 --> 00:32:01,760 Speaker 1: intimates in that environment? And this individual might have perceived 489 00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:05,760 Speaker 1: themselves as being an intimate. Guys, take a listen to 490 00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:11,760 Speaker 1: our friend Francisco Almanara wk ABC twenty seven years reporter 491 00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:15,040 Speaker 1: now with eighteen year old Elijah LaRue and custody in 492 00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:18,200 Speaker 1: connection with the murder. UW police are now confirming that 493 00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:21,160 Speaker 1: the couple had in fact been shot or to a 494 00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:25,360 Speaker 1: point where we can confidently start releasing some more information 495 00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:28,720 Speaker 1: to help our community better understand what happened, and that's 496 00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:31,200 Speaker 1: what we were able to do today. Mark Love Account 497 00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:34,680 Speaker 1: with the UWPD says they can't say what the victims 498 00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:37,640 Speaker 1: were doing in the arboretum that morning, but he did 499 00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:41,200 Speaker 1: say that is where they were shot and killed. He says, 500 00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:45,880 Speaker 1: investigating the department's first ever double homicide during the pandemic. 501 00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:50,480 Speaker 1: Has posed many challenges, but they're making progress. It's been 502 00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:54,080 Speaker 1: fantastic police work in a really, really tough time, and 503 00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:58,000 Speaker 1: our folks are tired, but they're doing really well and 504 00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:03,800 Speaker 1: it's it's been a remarkable week. The bodies of this 505 00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:07,000 Speaker 1: professor and her husband found in a ditch by a 506 00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:11,360 Speaker 1: jogger six thirty am. And remember, as Joe Scott Morgan 507 00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:16,040 Speaker 1: ported out, the professor, doctor Beth Potter, was still alive 508 00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:19,640 Speaker 1: at some level at that time, so that the shootings 509 00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:23,520 Speaker 1: could not have been much before six thirty am. It 510 00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:27,800 Speaker 1: was in the u W Arboretum. It's a research, popular 511 00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:34,120 Speaker 1: recreational area with over a thousand acres of forest and prairie. 512 00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:39,920 Speaker 1: Arboretum is a botanical garden devoted specifically to trees in 513 00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:45,160 Speaker 1: their natural state. Why it is some sort of motive 514 00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:49,960 Speaker 1: beginning to arise to Sierra Gillespie joining us WMTV, NBC 515 00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:56,080 Speaker 1: fifteen Madison, Sierra. Now there is a second perp. Who's 516 00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:59,240 Speaker 1: the second purp? So we know that the second person 517 00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:03,160 Speaker 1: arrested in this case is eighteen year old Elijah LaRue, 518 00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:06,120 Speaker 1: and we also know that he went to not u 519 00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:09,919 Speaker 1: W Madison, actually Madison West High School, I should say 520 00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:12,759 Speaker 1: so yesterday I was working to do a little bit 521 00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:15,560 Speaker 1: more digging about this eighteen year old and I reached 522 00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:18,279 Speaker 1: out to Mark Levicott, the police officer. We actually just 523 00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:20,560 Speaker 1: heard from him, and he told me all we can 524 00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:25,120 Speaker 1: say is there were acquaintances. But I mean, for somebody 525 00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:28,240 Speaker 1: who's going to commit a brutal crime like this, officers 526 00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:32,719 Speaker 1: are calling it senseless, cold blooded, heinous. I mean, they 527 00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:35,399 Speaker 1: have to be more than acquaintances, you know. I'm trying 528 00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:38,000 Speaker 1: to get into the psyche of what would make you 529 00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:42,799 Speaker 1: commit such a crime. To doctor Angela Arnold helped me out. 530 00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:46,720 Speaker 1: We know that one of the teams, eighteen years old, 531 00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:51,280 Speaker 1: treated as an adult under the law, knew their daughter, 532 00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:54,200 Speaker 1: who's still in high school. This means he's, you know, 533 00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:56,839 Speaker 1: at least a couple of years older than her. That's 534 00:34:56,880 --> 00:35:01,080 Speaker 1: the only real connection we've got but a into Sierra Gillespie. 535 00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:05,360 Speaker 1: The two had exchanged at least exchanged emails online. But 536 00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:09,880 Speaker 1: to shoot the parents dead, well, I know, and in 537 00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:12,680 Speaker 1: such a calculatd wies it so early in the morning. 538 00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:14,440 Speaker 1: I mean, I've got so many questions in my head 539 00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:17,719 Speaker 1: about this. Did he perceive that the parents were somehow 540 00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:22,280 Speaker 1: standing in his way of going out with their daughter. 541 00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:25,759 Speaker 1: I don't know. I think there's so much that's going 542 00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:28,200 Speaker 1: to be found out about this, don't you say? I agree, 543 00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:32,320 Speaker 1: Troy Slayton, I once had a murder over ten dollars. 544 00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:38,600 Speaker 1: Ten dollars a murder over ten dollars, So it could 545 00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:42,560 Speaker 1: be a perceived slight. It could be any number of things. 546 00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:45,320 Speaker 1: And of course, Troy Slayton, you're the defense attorney. The 547 00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:49,440 Speaker 1: state doesn't have to prove motive. But reasonably speaking, when 548 00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:52,120 Speaker 1: you're arguing something to a jury, if you don't present 549 00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:54,719 Speaker 1: a motive, you've got a problem in your case. And 550 00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:59,680 Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan pointed it out that motive here is 551 00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:05,680 Speaker 1: not clear. Why would two young boys murder these two 552 00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:09,640 Speaker 1: pillars of the community. Something's not making sense, something doesn't 553 00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:13,400 Speaker 1: smell good. And just because a young girl is calling 554 00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:16,440 Speaker 1: somebody bay. Look, my twelve year old daughter writes to 555 00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:19,960 Speaker 1: her friends online all the time and calls everybody bay. 556 00:36:20,080 --> 00:36:24,719 Speaker 1: So that doesn't mean anything. And I think that police 557 00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:29,200 Speaker 1: saying that this is targeted, although it is senseless and tragic, 558 00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:35,120 Speaker 1: we don't know that these people were targeted. Six boys. 559 00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:38,919 Speaker 1: You think two teas are in the arboretum at six 560 00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:42,239 Speaker 1: thirty in the morning with guns. They don't rape, they 561 00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:44,600 Speaker 1: don't steal, and they shoot these two and oh yeah, 562 00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:48,280 Speaker 1: they happen to know their daughter, their high school age daughter. 563 00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:53,160 Speaker 1: That's targeted, Troy. How can that not be anything but targeted? 564 00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:57,120 Speaker 1: Something's not making sense. Yeah, you you're not making sense. 565 00:36:57,200 --> 00:37:00,279 Speaker 1: Claim this is not targeted. Oh I think I just 566 00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:04,480 Speaker 1: gotten mulling in the background or is that Bobby Bobby? Well, 567 00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:07,200 Speaker 1: you know, it may not seem to make sense, but 568 00:37:07,239 --> 00:37:08,920 Speaker 1: it certainly makes sense to the police and prosecutors. The 569 00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:11,440 Speaker 1: prosecutor has charged them with first degree murder. And this 570 00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:14,879 Speaker 1: was lightning investigative work. That the victims were found Tuesday morning. 571 00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:17,200 Speaker 1: The first arrest was Thursday night, the second arrest was 572 00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:20,359 Speaker 1: Saturday morning. Um so, and and they've come out with, 573 00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:23,680 Speaker 1: you know, phrases like targeted. So they obviously know a 574 00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:25,719 Speaker 1: lot more than we know. So it may not make 575 00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:27,920 Speaker 1: sense to us, but it looks like it makes perfect 576 00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:30,160 Speaker 1: sense to the police and the prosecutors in this case. 577 00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:35,319 Speaker 1: Prosecutors are very hesitant to file serious charges like this 578 00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:39,680 Speaker 1: this quickly unless they have some pretty damning evidence. In 579 00:37:39,719 --> 00:37:58,319 Speaker 1: their possession time stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, I'm hearing 580 00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:02,120 Speaker 1: in my ear. We have an update on the case, 581 00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:07,040 Speaker 1: straight out to Dave Mattcrime online dot Com investigative reporter 582 00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:11,319 Speaker 1: Dave what happened and to what we're finding out is 583 00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:17,120 Speaker 1: that the suspect, Caldy Sandford, actually had been living with 584 00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:24,520 Speaker 1: the victims and had been dating their adopted daughter, Miriam, 585 00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:27,280 Speaker 1: in a relationship they've been going on for a long time. 586 00:38:27,800 --> 00:38:35,240 Speaker 1: Two weeks before this shooting occurred, they were that Potter 587 00:38:35,560 --> 00:38:40,000 Speaker 1: moved her daughter and Sanford out of the house because 588 00:38:40,040 --> 00:38:45,000 Speaker 1: they refused to distance themselves socially. Okay, wait, wait, wait, wait, 589 00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:51,720 Speaker 1: so you're telling me doctor Potter moved her daughter, Mimi, 590 00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:56,440 Speaker 1: Miriam and her I guess they'd been letting Carrie Sandford, 591 00:38:56,840 --> 00:39:00,799 Speaker 1: now charged in their murders, eighteen year old football star 592 00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:04,760 Speaker 1: Carrie Sandford, who goes to high school with the daughter Mimi, 593 00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:07,840 Speaker 1: the adopted daughter Mimi. They're letting him live in the 594 00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:13,880 Speaker 1: home with Mimi. And it's my understanding that the doctor, 595 00:39:15,239 --> 00:39:19,640 Speaker 1: doctor Beth Potter, had some immune issue and she could 596 00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:24,680 Speaker 1: not be close to people. It's my understanding, day Mac, 597 00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:28,680 Speaker 1: she felt that her daughter Mimi and her living teen lover. 598 00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:34,160 Speaker 1: We're not respecting her and we're not keeping the social 599 00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:37,720 Speaker 1: distance in the time of COVID nineteen. So she moves 600 00:39:37,719 --> 00:39:40,520 Speaker 1: them into an airbnb. She doesn't throw them out on 601 00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:44,480 Speaker 1: the street. She moves them into an apartment airbnb not 602 00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:48,360 Speaker 1: far from home. Is that right, Dave mac Absolutely correct, Nancy. 603 00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:52,120 Speaker 1: And according to one of the individuals that Beth Potter 604 00:39:52,200 --> 00:39:55,240 Speaker 1: worked with at the University lg is how she's labeled 605 00:39:55,239 --> 00:39:58,759 Speaker 1: in the documents that a conversation and that said that 606 00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:02,720 Speaker 1: her daughter Miriam, that they wouldn't social distance. They stayed 607 00:40:02,719 --> 00:40:05,920 Speaker 1: in the room all day her in Sanford, ordering food, 608 00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:08,240 Speaker 1: but then they would leave the house and go out 609 00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:10,840 Speaker 1: and just ramble around and then come back home. And 610 00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:13,680 Speaker 1: we're just being totally disrespectful of the rules that him 611 00:40:13,719 --> 00:40:17,040 Speaker 1: and laid down because of as you mentioned, Beth Potter, 612 00:40:17,160 --> 00:40:21,000 Speaker 1: doctor Potter's immune system is also we know that her husband, 613 00:40:21,719 --> 00:40:26,319 Speaker 1: the husband Robin, had self quarantined so he would not 614 00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:30,560 Speaker 1: hurt his wife, so he would not expose her to 615 00:40:30,680 --> 00:40:36,000 Speaker 1: COVID nineteen potentially. And then the daughter Mimi allegedly just 616 00:40:36,040 --> 00:40:38,799 Speaker 1: stays hold up in her bedroom all day where their 617 00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:44,200 Speaker 1: football star boyfriend ordering takeout and watching TV and whatever 618 00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:47,360 Speaker 1: else they're doing alone in the bedroom. So she finally 619 00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:51,000 Speaker 1: gets tired of them breathing all over her, not respecting 620 00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:53,920 Speaker 1: the rules, and then shells out for them to be 621 00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:57,879 Speaker 1: in an airbnb. She pays for their place. What can 622 00:40:57,920 --> 00:41:02,600 Speaker 1: you tell me, Dave Mack about stations alleged conversations coming 623 00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:06,319 Speaker 1: to light about how the daughter, Mimi, was bragging that 624 00:41:06,360 --> 00:41:08,840 Speaker 1: her parents were rich and they had a lot of bands, 625 00:41:08,880 --> 00:41:11,879 Speaker 1: which is thousands of dollars. Well, early in the month 626 00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:14,920 Speaker 1: of March, a friend of there before school was suspended, 627 00:41:15,239 --> 00:41:20,160 Speaker 1: a friend overheard Miriam and Sandford talking about the need 628 00:41:20,239 --> 00:41:22,840 Speaker 1: for money, and Miriam flat I said, hey, my folks 629 00:41:22,840 --> 00:41:26,200 Speaker 1: are rich. They got bands, referring to the thousands of cash. 630 00:41:26,239 --> 00:41:29,640 Speaker 1: And this was over her bragging about the money they had. 631 00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:33,399 Speaker 1: And at the time, Sandford had just moved in with 632 00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:35,920 Speaker 1: Miriam and her folks, So this is a couple of 633 00:41:35,960 --> 00:41:38,319 Speaker 1: weeks before they were forced to move out, so they 634 00:41:38,320 --> 00:41:42,800 Speaker 1: were living together in this very wealthy situation. Yeah, thanks 635 00:41:42,840 --> 00:41:45,919 Speaker 1: to the mother and the father's hard work working their 636 00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:48,960 Speaker 1: fingers to the bone. We are also learning right now. 637 00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:56,160 Speaker 1: According to an unnamed source, a detective stating that I 638 00:41:56,239 --> 00:42:00,440 Speaker 1: almost hate to say it. The husband, Robin, was face 639 00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:03,799 Speaker 1: down with the wound to his head, wearing only his underwear. 640 00:42:04,120 --> 00:42:07,239 Speaker 1: There were several three fifty seven cig shellcasings in the 641 00:42:07,320 --> 00:42:11,200 Speaker 1: area around the male victim. The female victim had been 642 00:42:11,239 --> 00:42:16,400 Speaker 1: located blood spatter and pooling, indicating the victims haven't shot 643 00:42:16,680 --> 00:42:21,759 Speaker 1: there at the arboretum. But she had on her pj's 644 00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:25,359 Speaker 1: and socks. He had on underwear. So it sounds to 645 00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:31,040 Speaker 1: me that these two teens, one the teen lover of 646 00:42:31,520 --> 00:42:35,279 Speaker 1: the dead couple's daughter, had forced them out of their home. 647 00:42:35,840 --> 00:42:38,640 Speaker 1: I guess while they were sleeping, because I remember the 648 00:42:38,680 --> 00:42:41,320 Speaker 1: six thirty in the morning. I'm also learning and correct 649 00:42:41,360 --> 00:42:43,200 Speaker 1: me if I'm wrong, Dave, because there's a lot of 650 00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:48,440 Speaker 1: information coming out right now that JAG not only found them, 651 00:42:48,440 --> 00:42:53,040 Speaker 1: but they heard some shots after six am in the morning, 652 00:42:53,320 --> 00:42:57,760 Speaker 1: then the bodies were found. Is that right? Not exactly, Nancy. 653 00:42:58,080 --> 00:43:02,279 Speaker 1: What we've been told is that they have tracked the 654 00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:08,520 Speaker 1: cell phone of one of these suspects near the home 655 00:43:08,760 --> 00:43:13,640 Speaker 1: of Beth Potter on the night on the thirtieth. Okay, now, 656 00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:19,200 Speaker 1: at about eleven o'clock eleven o two, an ear witness 657 00:43:19,640 --> 00:43:23,799 Speaker 1: around the arboretum heard two gunshots at eleven oh two, 658 00:43:23,920 --> 00:43:27,960 Speaker 1: and then four more four to five more gunshots coming 659 00:43:28,480 --> 00:43:31,520 Speaker 1: immediately after that, a total of six or seven shots 660 00:43:31,520 --> 00:43:35,080 Speaker 1: fired a little after eleven o'clock. Thank you. So the 661 00:43:35,120 --> 00:43:39,280 Speaker 1: shots were at eleven o'clock the night before. They must 662 00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:42,360 Speaker 1: have aroused to them out of bed. She's got on 663 00:43:42,360 --> 00:43:45,120 Speaker 1: her pj's, he has on underwear, and then the bodies 664 00:43:45,120 --> 00:43:50,600 Speaker 1: are found. Thank you. That's very significant, very significant, your correction, 665 00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:55,120 Speaker 1: Dave Mack, because the shootings were we think that night 666 00:43:55,160 --> 00:44:00,440 Speaker 1: around eleven. Isn't it true that the boyfriend and his buddy, 667 00:44:00,520 --> 00:44:03,520 Speaker 1: one of them show up at a friend's house excited 668 00:44:03,800 --> 00:44:09,800 Speaker 1: and agitated and upset in very concern that the wife, 669 00:44:09,840 --> 00:44:13,080 Speaker 1: the mom, had been rushed to the hospital and was 670 00:44:13,120 --> 00:44:18,160 Speaker 1: still alive. Absolutely, Nancy. The word that we've gotten is 671 00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:22,560 Speaker 1: that when they were agitated and excited, and then finding 672 00:44:22,560 --> 00:44:25,759 Speaker 1: out in the news that doctor Beth Potter had said, 673 00:44:25,880 --> 00:44:27,840 Speaker 1: of course they weren't named at the time, but that 674 00:44:27,960 --> 00:44:32,920 Speaker 1: the woman had survived the initial shooting, Sanford apparently was 675 00:44:33,000 --> 00:44:36,440 Speaker 1: heard saying, I know I shot him, you know, I 676 00:44:36,520 --> 00:44:39,239 Speaker 1: know I took them, and you know there were two 677 00:44:39,239 --> 00:44:43,560 Speaker 1: shots in Beth catter one in Robin to the just 678 00:44:43,640 --> 00:44:45,520 Speaker 1: above the ear on the left side of his head. 679 00:44:45,800 --> 00:44:47,960 Speaker 1: She was shot in the head and in the arm, 680 00:44:48,480 --> 00:44:52,000 Speaker 1: and she was when they discovered her, she was about 681 00:44:52,040 --> 00:44:55,399 Speaker 1: thirty degrees. He say, she was wearing pajamas and somebody 682 00:44:55,600 --> 00:45:03,520 Speaker 1: was down to thirty degrees. Yes, correct. And about Mimi Miriam, 683 00:45:03,760 --> 00:45:06,920 Speaker 1: the daughter Nancy, this is the part that bothers me. 684 00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:09,880 Speaker 1: She hasn't in charge yet, but you know, she actually 685 00:45:09,880 --> 00:45:13,680 Speaker 1: alibied Sanford. She said told the police that they were 686 00:45:13,760 --> 00:45:16,880 Speaker 1: at their airbnb the entire night of the thirtieth and 687 00:45:16,960 --> 00:45:19,520 Speaker 1: the thirty version that they did not leave, didn't she 688 00:45:19,560 --> 00:45:24,560 Speaker 1: text somebody about she was, you know, two rooms over 689 00:45:24,680 --> 00:45:28,279 Speaker 1: from them, and they had gotten back. We know that 690 00:45:28,320 --> 00:45:32,400 Speaker 1: she was texting Sandford when she told the police that 691 00:45:32,480 --> 00:45:36,040 Speaker 1: they were together at that airbnb, you know, and she 692 00:45:36,120 --> 00:45:38,960 Speaker 1: claimed that they had the text messages back and forth 693 00:45:39,000 --> 00:45:40,480 Speaker 1: where you know, she was trying to find out what 694 00:45:40,600 --> 00:45:42,880 Speaker 1: was going on. And you know, police are like, well, 695 00:45:42,880 --> 00:45:44,919 Speaker 1: if you guys are vote here together at the same time, 696 00:45:44,960 --> 00:45:46,960 Speaker 1: why are you texting him? You know, So we know 697 00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:50,799 Speaker 1: that she's texting him while this is going on, while 698 00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:54,720 Speaker 1: she claims they're in that Airbnb together. We understand that 699 00:45:55,040 --> 00:45:59,200 Speaker 1: after the two Sandford and LaRue had come back to 700 00:45:59,239 --> 00:46:03,440 Speaker 1: the apartment where the daughter Miriam known as Mimi, was, 701 00:46:03,640 --> 00:46:08,000 Speaker 1: she texted and unidentified friends saying, quote, I want to cry, 702 00:46:09,160 --> 00:46:12,000 Speaker 1: but I'm also in an apartment with them and it's 703 00:46:12,040 --> 00:46:16,120 Speaker 1: literally two and a half rooms, so that's fun. But 704 00:46:16,200 --> 00:46:21,560 Speaker 1: they come back. So we know that she alibied him 705 00:46:21,600 --> 00:46:25,680 Speaker 1: knowing that he was gone. We know that much right now. 706 00:46:26,320 --> 00:46:31,360 Speaker 1: As of right now, the daughter Miriam has not been charged. 707 00:46:32,239 --> 00:46:37,040 Speaker 1: We wait as justice unfools. Nancy Grace Crime Story signing 708 00:46:37,080 --> 00:46:38,400 Speaker 1: off goodbye friend,