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Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to

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Speaker 1: the show, fellow Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always so

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Speaker 1: much for tuning in. Let's hear it for the one,

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Speaker 1: the only, the natural haired super producer mister Max Williams.

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Speaker 2: Max Midnight Williams. Because that's the deep, deep color of

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Speaker 2: his luscious locks.

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Speaker 3: Do how do you all think my hair is? Can

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Speaker 3: I tell you that's outside of the scope of his episode?

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Speaker 3: Max Fright?

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Speaker 1: No, it's sound dear butt. I seen it? Is it?

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Speaker 3: Holy cow?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's made up that word. I like holy cow.

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Speaker 2: I wasn't wrong about the lusciousness. So I wish y'all

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Speaker 2: could see it. If only it weren't just any nice.

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Speaker 2: It looks like a commercial fabyo locks, Fabio locks.

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Speaker 1: Just so. That's Noel Brown. They call me Ben Bullen

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Speaker 1: in this part of the world.

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Speaker 3: We are.

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Speaker 1: We are three dudes here in the United States, and

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Speaker 1: we have a ton of questions about history. Now, Noel,

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Speaker 1: you and I and our God I love. The fabio

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Speaker 1: thing is not going to leave my head.

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Speaker 3: You nailed it. I'm very aroused.

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Speaker 1: We are we are three dudes with again, an enormous

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Speaker 1: interest in weird, weird stuff, and thanks to the help

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Speaker 1: of our research associate, the legendary Wren, today we're going

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Speaker 1: to talk about.

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Speaker 3: Hair dye for sure.

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Speaker 2: And you know, it's something that I have always somewhat assumed,

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Speaker 2: at least in terms of the way it's used today.

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Speaker 2: Been sort of a modern thing, which isn't that far off,

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Speaker 2: But in the world of fashion, hair has always been

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Speaker 2: kind of a symbol of vitality. If we would talk

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Speaker 2: about Samson, for example, the biblical character who's you know,

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Speaker 2: magical strength, Apparently the power resided in his hair, and

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Speaker 2: it was I believe Solomme, who was sort of his

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Speaker 2: arch that cut his hair off and deprived him of

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Speaker 2: his strength. So I mean, it's definitely in the lore

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Speaker 2: that that hair. Having a good head of hair indicates

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Speaker 2: some form of vitality, not to mention a form of

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Speaker 2: self expression, as evidenced by Max's aerial style headthrow, you know.

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Speaker 1: And thank you for not doing dreadlocks.

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Speaker 3: Max.

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Speaker 1: If this podcasting thing doesn't work out for us, I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna I'm clearly gonna ride Max's coattails.

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Speaker 3: Or pony tails, uh.

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Speaker 1: Of what he becomes the new face of Claial Herbal essences.

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Speaker 1: I love the point you bring up, knowl about the

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Speaker 1: idea of hair as power in those old biblical stories,

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Speaker 1: true true story. Once upon a time a girl I

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Speaker 1: was dating used to get so mad when I got

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Speaker 1: a haircut, and she told me that my hairdresser was

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Speaker 1: robbing me of my power.

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Speaker 3: It's very body fluid, very weird.

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Speaker 2: It is a little weird, yeah, I mean, but there

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Speaker 2: certainly are religious sects I guess you call them where

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Speaker 2: you know. I believe it's Pentecostal, where cutting the hair

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Speaker 2: is a no no, and there is a certain reverence

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Speaker 2: associated with the hair. So although beauty standards have certainly

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Speaker 2: evolved and changed and cyclical things kind of come and

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Speaker 2: go and then come back over time, one thing that

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Speaker 2: certainly remains to some degree is that too many gray

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Speaker 2: hair is seen as a sign of aging and therefore

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Speaker 2: perhaps been a sign of weakness, which is wild. I

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Speaker 2: don't care does love a silver fox. I would much

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Speaker 2: rather go gray than go bald. And that is no

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Speaker 2: shades any of our bald community out there, any receding

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Speaker 2: hairline folks or widows peaks, what have you. I personally

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Speaker 2: pride myself on having a pretty good head of hair

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Speaker 2: that will definitely one day be entirely gray. But I

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Speaker 2: don't think the hair itself is going anywhere. And that's

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Speaker 2: a bargain that I can be on board with.

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Speaker 1: Widows. Peaks are awesome. They make you look smarter, They

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Speaker 1: make you look a little bit like a vulcan munster,

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Speaker 1: all right, So I wore a hat for this one. Look, folks,

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Speaker 1: we know the hair dye industry is boomy right now.

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Speaker 1: In the current global economy, the hair dye industry alone

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Speaker 1: racks up about twenty three point one point five billion

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Speaker 1: US dollars. And for a lot of people, you know,

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Speaker 1: this is a very sensitive thing. Hair can be challenging,

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Speaker 1: It can be a statement, it can be it can

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Speaker 1: be something people judge you for.

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Speaker 3: And while I am on.

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Speaker 1: Record loving gray hair, a lot of people do get

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Speaker 1: bothered by this. So hair dye by modern standards is

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Speaker 1: way more recent than you might imagine, folks. It's existed

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Speaker 1: in a modern industry for about a century. But even

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Speaker 1: in its early days, the iterations were relatively simple. Maybe

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Speaker 1: some of us in the audience remember the idea of bluing,

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Speaker 1: you know, like Mark Simpson, there.

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Speaker 3: Was all blue thing.

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Speaker 2: I don't know if I know about that, I guess

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Speaker 2: I've I've heard of older ladies sometimes referred to as

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Speaker 2: blue hairs. There is a shade of gray that has

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Speaker 2: a bit of a bluish hue that I've always found interesting.

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Speaker 2: But man, we gotta do it because every time we're

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Speaker 2: talking about the history of pigments and fashion and and

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Speaker 2: you know, fabric, for example, we always end up back

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Speaker 2: with the ancient Egyptians, who were huge innovators in many

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Speaker 2: many ways, and industrialization, irrigation, farming techniques, construction, and of course, yes,

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Speaker 2: one hundred percent weaponry, myths making.

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Speaker 3: Let's just say a lot of we always talk about.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I don't know if you've seen them film heretic,

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Speaker 2: but there is some interesting There's an interesting part where

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Speaker 2: the character pedantically talks about how some of the ancient

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Speaker 2: myths of Egypt have a lot of parallels with biblical stuff.

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Speaker 2: There is this sort of hero's journey repeated story, and

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Speaker 2: there is some truth to that dating as far back

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Speaker 2: as the ancient Engines.

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Speaker 1: Shout out to Joseph Campbell, thank you of cambell A,

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Speaker 1: thou still exactly right, Ben, A really good one.

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Speaker 2: If you're into Star Wars, and you're seeing some of

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Speaker 2: these tropes that begin to start to seem a little

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Speaker 2: bit recognizable.

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Speaker 3: There's a reason for that.

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Speaker 2: But one thing the ancient Egyptians pride themselves on was

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Speaker 2: looking good, fine, smelling good.

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Speaker 1: Especially as the royal family became increasingly habsburg esque. I

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Speaker 1: said it, yeah, just look, come on, man, you get it.

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Speaker 1: Look at King Tu.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, King indeed.

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Speaker 1: Indeed, So going back to like fifteen hundred BCE, uh,

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Speaker 1: the well to do people in ancient Egypt would use

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Speaker 1: heada to give their hair a reddish brown hue. It

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Speaker 1: would also help obscure gray hair, because we have to remember,

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Speaker 1: for a long time in human history, gray hair was

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Speaker 1: not cool. Now, I want to be clear here, Max

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Speaker 1: is a brownie. My pal Nola and I have various

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Speaker 1: streaks of gray. Nole's got a cool roguish from the

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Speaker 1: X Men streak of gray and nice gray goatee. I

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Speaker 1: got these two gray stripes that.

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Speaker 3: Make me look like ros al Ghoul.

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Speaker 1: And I've got the gray at my temples like Reed

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Speaker 1: Richards from Fantastic four.

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Speaker 2: What do they call those polly walnuts in and they

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Speaker 2: call them wings? Actually some people dye them that way

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Speaker 2: on purpose. Well, it's like a thing. Yeah, Polly talks

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Speaker 2: about getting his wings done, and it's like it's like

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Speaker 2: maybe an Italian kind of thing, a little bit dated,

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Speaker 2: but very funny for that character. But the ancient Egyptians

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Speaker 2: used kind of, like you said, to dye their hair

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Speaker 2: this reddish brown color. And it certainly there was an

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Speaker 2: aspect of max sking, you know, the signs of aging,

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Speaker 2: because we know the Egyptians were a pretty vain people,

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Speaker 2: and I think that's too much of a hot take.

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Speaker 2: But it was also like kind of a societal flex

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Speaker 2: in a way too, a way of differentiating the haves

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Speaker 2: from the have nots. It was popularized, as often the case,

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Speaker 2: by a great ruler, a very prominent figure, Pharaoh Rameses

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Speaker 2: Rameses rather the Great. A nineteen seventy six study of

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Speaker 2: his mummified remains concluded that he did not, in fact

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Speaker 2: have black hair, but rather.

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Speaker 3: Red or auburn hair. What a flex.

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Speaker 2: That's very interesting. So wait, he had black hair, like

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Speaker 2: when it was? He was his hair naturally red or auburn?

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Speaker 2: Is that what they're saying?

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Speaker 3: What?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it was it was natural? Like how I'm a

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Speaker 1: semi ginger? Dave Walker, did we call it. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: being a not quite ginger was a huge social flex.

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Speaker 1: Really at that time, you were associated with royalty, you

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Speaker 1: were associated with the deity of the desert sands, Set,

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Speaker 1: who was not a bad guy at that time. Going

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Speaker 1: back to our earlier song of Ice and Fire Habsburg jokes,

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Speaker 1: this pharaoh in particular probably got his red hair via genetics.

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Speaker 1: His father had also been born as a guy with

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Speaker 1: red or auburn hair. The issue is that they wanted

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Speaker 1: to maintain that red hair can go gray early, and

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Speaker 1: gray at that time meant you were running towards the grave.

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Speaker 1: So you always wanted to have your hair unique and

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Speaker 1: you wanted it to be a statement. You could also,

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Speaker 1: at this time in ancient Egypt, use indigo as a

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Speaker 1: dye to achieve that kind of blue black, silky shade.

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Speaker 1: Or sure you could go blonde. Yeah, I guess.

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Speaker 2: That's what I was a little confused about. I'm trying

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Speaker 2: to find some more specific mentions. But the indication was

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Speaker 2: that it was thought that Ramses had black hair, but

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Speaker 2: in fact he had red or auburn hair that was

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Speaker 2: genetically inherited from his father, who was named after Set.

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Speaker 2: You know, for this this unique tray, this familial trade.

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Speaker 2: So I'm guessing that perhaps he used a he died

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Speaker 2: over that.

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Speaker 1: Co I think as he went gray, he died over it. Okay, Okay,

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Speaker 1: I got it.

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Speaker 2: I'm just wondering if he was using indigo, because certainly,

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Speaker 2: if you already got the red and people are using

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Speaker 2: this stuff to get the red fakely, he'd be just

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Speaker 2: rocking it all naturale. But I guess you're right he

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Speaker 2: could have used the hanna to cover up some of

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Speaker 2: those grays. And of course, if anyone's ever messed with

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Speaker 2: turmeric in the kitchen, you know that that spice can

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Speaker 2: stain your fingers pretty bright yellow pretty quick. And that

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Speaker 2: was actually used to create kind of a quasi blonde

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Speaker 2: shade of yellow.

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Speaker 3: And we got to think too, they didn't really have chemical.

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Speaker 2: Lightning techniques yet at this point, so it's not going

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Speaker 2: to be the same like platinum blonde type look as

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Speaker 2: we're going to get to a little further down the line.

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Speaker 2: So by three twenty three BC, ancient Egypt, Rome and

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Speaker 2: Greece were kind of co occupying the Greco Roman period

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Speaker 2: collectively and contributing various bits, you know, to culture and

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Speaker 2: history with a lot of parallel thinking going on as well.

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Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, absolutely, Look there's another great and this guy

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Speaker 1: is named Alexander, the Great, super humble dude Greek general

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Speaker 1: conquered Egypt. When he dies, he's got an employee, a

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Speaker 1: real up and comer named Ptolome related to Cleopatra, and

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Speaker 1: takes over Egypt. Everything carries on for about three hundred

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Speaker 1: years until Julius Caesar has the worst work meeting of

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Speaker 1: his life. Then Cleopatra loses control of Egypt in a

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Speaker 1: battle to the Romans because she chose the wrong side,

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Speaker 1: and that post Caesar power vacuum these cultures. The reason

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Speaker 1: we're telling you this, folks, is that these cultures reach

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Speaker 1: a confluence of hair dye. The ancient Greeks and Romans

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Speaker 1: look at this jet black hair that most people are

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Speaker 1: rocking in Egypt, and they go, oh, man, this is

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Speaker 1: so cool. Let's be like the cool people. And then

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Speaker 1: they make a series of just terrible choices in creating

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Speaker 1: their hair dye. Can we name some of the ingredients here?

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Speaker 3: We can?

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Speaker 2: And I just want to say, I think maybe where

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Speaker 2: I was getting off with the whole Ramsey's hair color

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Speaker 2: thing was that, Yeah, it's really the good points that

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Speaker 2: you make ben Egyptians were typically born with jet black hair,

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Speaker 2: so for Rameses to have that red hair was super

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Speaker 2: unusual and remarkable and perhaps even what people looked to

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Speaker 2: in wanting to.

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Speaker 3: Use that hennah to kind of match that freak, you

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Speaker 3: know what I.

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Speaker 1: Mean, divinely inspired. Also, I like the nomenclature, match that freak.

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Speaker 1: That's what the Romans were trying to do. They mixed

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Speaker 1: lead oxide, bad stuff, calcium hydroxide water. This is the

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Speaker 1: first permanent black hair dye. This is not that stuff

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Speaker 1: you would buy at gadzooks or a hot topic.

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Speaker 2: And we know even today that a lot of hair

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Speaker 2: lightning products and hair dyes can be pretty gnarly. You

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Speaker 2: gotta be careful, you know, and you got to have

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Speaker 2: a professional do it. You can literally set your hair

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Speaker 2: on fire, yes, if you're not careful, yes.

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Speaker 1: And you can fry your You can fry your scalp.

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Speaker 1: The thing is, neurology was not really a science at

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Speaker 1: this point, so the formula these Greeks and Romans cooked

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Speaker 1: up was bad for you. It could cause brain damage,

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Speaker 1: It would corrode your scalp eventually. Without being neurologists, the

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Speaker 1: Greco Romans figured this out and they said, all right,

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Speaker 1: here's what we're gonna do, a much more healthy option.

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Speaker 1: We're gonna ferment leeches in vinegar, and we're going to

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Speaker 1: apply that so that we look more look like an Egyptian.

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Speaker 2: No you want to They're definitely the cool kids. They're

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Speaker 2: definitely the trendsetters of history at this point, leaving behind

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Speaker 2: a lot of pretty cool stuff that got kind of,

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Speaker 2: you know, styled on.

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Speaker 3: Let's just sit later on down the line, dude.

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Speaker 1: Also, some of the Greeks, who were obviously trying to

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Speaker 1: be edgy, I guess, trying to do their met Gallas stuff,

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Speaker 1: they leaned into their lighter hair. To your excellent note

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Speaker 1: about lightning hair color, they used potassium pollen and crushed

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Speaker 1: yellow flower petals to kind of make their hair lighter.

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Speaker 1: They made a paste or really, if we're being honest,

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Speaker 1: a poultice, because we love that.

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Speaker 2: Weird Hannah would be similarly thick and pasty, and I

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Speaker 2: think it would honestly be almost something that you would

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Speaker 2: apply to the hair, because without bleaching it, you're not

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Speaker 2: You can't dye black hair a color. It just doesn't

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Speaker 2: really work. It doesn't take. That's why you have to

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Speaker 2: bleach it first. So I'm wondering if they would rub

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Speaker 2: this stuff in their hair. And the color kind of

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Speaker 2: came from the fact that this was like in there. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: the salt is reacting with the keratin in the hair.

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Speaker 2: They knew the process, they didn't have the same words

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Speaker 2: we have for it now, and they knew that the

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Speaker 2: sunshine would touch the hair when you had this pasty

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Speaker 2: stuff on it. It's kind of like how red points out.

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Speaker 2: It's kind of like how if you park a car

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Speaker 2: in the sun for a long enough time. Yeah, the

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Speaker 2: energy from the sun will have an effect on the paint.

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Speaker 2: So you can use the sun to like expose photographic

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Speaker 2: plates and things like that, you know, I mean, like

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Speaker 2: whatever you know obviously, But if you leave say a

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Speaker 2: drawing out like on a on a piece of regular

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Speaker 2: art paper long enough, it will lighten over a time.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And now fast forward Greeks Egyptians. Sorry, guys, the Romans

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Speaker 1: are running stuff now. And when the Romans are running stuff,

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Speaker 1: they steal from the Egyptians. They steal from the Greeks.

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Speaker 1: This is not a hot take. This is how their

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Speaker 1: culture worked. They started creating this one percent or class

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Speaker 1: in a different way, such that if you are a

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Speaker 1: woman of significant means or a person of significant means, honestly,

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Speaker 1: you got blonde hair, you want to look blonde, right,

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Speaker 1: you want to stay blonde, And so if you have

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Speaker 1: the means at this point in time, you will apply

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Speaker 1: literal powdered gold with a special comb so you get

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Speaker 1: a sparkly hair.

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Speaker 2: You know, I don't know if you know it's been

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Speaker 2: but a hair glitter is apparently back in a big way.

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Speaker 2: It was big and I think the late nineties and

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Speaker 2: early two thousands, and apparently that movie Honora kind of

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Speaker 2: brought it back into fashion a little bit. So this

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Speaker 2: is like the og hair glitter, very very expensive hair glitter.

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Speaker 3: Are you doing hair glitter?

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Speaker 2: Not?

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Speaker 3: I No, glitter is insidious. I mean, if it's around,

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Speaker 3: you get it there on you.

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Speaker 1: Oh gosh, we don't even want to mention it. It's

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Speaker 1: like saying the quist's name thrice.

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Speaker 2: I learned a really funny term recently. It's called divorce glitter.

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Speaker 2: It's like something women who are going on dates in

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Speaker 2: order to ward off married men who are lying to them,

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Speaker 2: They wear glitter so that it gets on the men

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Speaker 2: and then their wives will know that they've been stepping

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Speaker 2: out on them.

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Speaker 1: Well, first off, I am impressed, and secondly, that's really

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Speaker 1: sad that you can't trust people.

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Speaker 2: It is said, but divorce glitter, you gotta. It's a

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Speaker 2: trap and you deserve it, you heal. But there's another

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Speaker 2: In addition to the gold powder, there was like you know,

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Speaker 2: that was only for the one percent of the one percent,

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Speaker 2: as you mentioned, Ben, but for those in that lower

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Speaker 2: echelon of society.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, they weren't really rocking the gold powder.

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Speaker 2: They were basically using a lie, right, more or less,

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Speaker 2: with ash with vinegar and soap liquor. Isn't that basically

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Speaker 2: lie to a degree? It's some it's it's something along

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Speaker 2: those lines. Yeah, ash and soap liquor.

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Speaker 1: Imperium romatum, it was called right, it's uh, it's weird

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Speaker 1: and it did have a bad smell and it did

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Speaker 1: burn people's skin. Also, if you left it on your

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Speaker 1: head too long, your hair would become brittle. It would

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Speaker 1: start falling out or breaking when you touched it. So,

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Speaker 1: of course, as we mentioned in the very first episode

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Speaker 1: of Ridiculous History, low these several years ago, wigs come

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Speaker 1: into play. The fancy version is the Peruke.

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Speaker 3: Remember that episode.

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Speaker 2: I do, But Ben, I have to ask you a question. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: do you wear wigs?

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Speaker 3: No? Have you won wigs for costumes? Yes?

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Speaker 1: That's not actually George Washington in those videos.

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Speaker 3: Will you wear wigs? I don't think so.

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Speaker 1: I don't think it's me.

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Speaker 2: It may be, and I don't get to my last question,

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Speaker 2: which is when will you wear wigs?

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Speaker 3: Sorry? Oh no, what about you? What about you know?

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Speaker 2: I bet this is a delightful exchange between Elijah Wood

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Speaker 2: and the other dude from who played one of his

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Speaker 2: Hobbit buddies. Apparently he the guy that was in Lost.

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Speaker 2: He apparently was punking Elijah Wood because it was like

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Speaker 2: a phone only interview with a German journalist.

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Speaker 3: And he's a talking to will you wear wigs? I

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Speaker 3: guess the ends it with when will you wear winks?

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Speaker 3: I hear you?

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Speaker 2: But you look great in that George Washington wig. Ben,

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Speaker 2: you strike a dashing figure and wigs are really a

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Speaker 2: cool thing, and there's still very much around today as

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Speaker 2: a fashion statement, especially folks in the drag community and beyond.

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Speaker 2: I mean, you can really say a lot with a wig.

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Speaker 2: Not to mention the theatrical aspect of.

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Speaker 3: It, yeah.

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Speaker 1: And back in this time period, wiggs were especially I

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Speaker 1: don't want to be a jerk about it, but wigs

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Speaker 1: were for sex workers in some communities because they would

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Speaker 1: have these yellow haired wigs that would let prospective customers know, hey,

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Speaker 1: the store is open.

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Speaker 3: Lit wink wink, not non Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, And that comes to us from Devin Hopp

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Speaker 1: writing for Birdie The Extraordinary History of Hair Color. People

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Speaker 1: liked blondes, dude, People liked blonde hair, especially in vettics.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And it's interesting because we get obviously into some pretty

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Speaker 2: gnarly racist tropes when it comes to.

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Speaker 3: Blonde hair, blue eyes, airyan kind of stuff.

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Speaker 2: So it is interesting that this early on there is

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Speaker 2: this sort of obsession with those things, right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, one hundred percent. According to the Journal of the

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Speaker 1: American Academy of Dermatology, by the fifteen hundreds, female identifying

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Speaker 1: folks in vetics had a pensiont for bleaching their hair

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Speaker 1: in the sun, often wearing broad brimmed hats without a

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Speaker 1: crown when sitting out on their rooftop. Verandas I have

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Speaker 1: a question for you, nol broad brimmed hat without a crown,

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Speaker 1: is that just like a visor that goes around.

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Speaker 2: I think it is, dude, which is interesting and I

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Speaker 2: gotta wonder too. I'd love to see some stats from

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Speaker 2: this era about skin cancer. I certainly don't think people

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Speaker 2: were wearing sunscreen right, right.

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Speaker 1: We're still before neurology and we're before dermatology. So if

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Speaker 1: we fast forward a little bit further, it's the seventeenth

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Speaker 1: century in England and people are not as into blonde hair.

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Speaker 1: They want to have dark hair. It's associated with youth.

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Speaker 1: So women would make a a paste. See it called

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Speaker 1: a potion, but I think it's a paste elderberries and

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Speaker 1: red wine. You could also use radish extract to get

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Speaker 1: that red hair.

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Speaker 3: Again, just a quick question.

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Speaker 2: A poultice would be when you're starting to add more

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Speaker 2: solid materials like leaves.

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Speaker 3: And sticks and stuff.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, one hundred percent. Gosh, I'm still what

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Speaker 1: trying to remember what that temporary hair dye was in

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Speaker 1: gad zooks or a hot topic.

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Speaker 3: Oh, we're gonna get to that. Well, it's not temporary.

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Speaker 2: We're gonna get to the kind of I guess og

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Speaker 2: funky hair color. But there certainly I know what you're

403
00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:17,040
Speaker 2: talking about, and there was a temporary solution, you know,

404
00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:19,880
Speaker 2: for folks that didn't want to go the full nine.

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Speaker 2: But unfortunately, you know, for all the good intentions and

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Speaker 2: fashionistaeness of it all, if that's the word, this stuff

407
00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:29,600
Speaker 2: was still very, very toxic.

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Speaker 3: One hundred percent.

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Speaker 1: You know, people were not experts in lead either. We're

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Speaker 1: going to go to further fast forward, the chemically challenged

411
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Speaker 1: origins of modern hair dye. It's eighteen fifty six. Malaria

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00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:51,320
Speaker 1: is very much in play. There's a thing called queenine quinine.

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Speaker 1: How do you say it?

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Speaker 3: I sometimes say quinine.

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Speaker 2: I've heard it many different ways, though I don't think

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Speaker 2: there's I think it's totally dealer's choice. Still learning English

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00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:05,639
Speaker 2: as brothers, we all are. But yeah, quinnying, we know,

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00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:08,359
Speaker 2: as you know. I think that's probably the little fun

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Speaker 2: fact people often drop about this.

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Speaker 3: It is what makes tonic water taste the way it

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Speaker 3: does tonic.

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00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:16,440
Speaker 2: So yeah, your gin and tonic does have quiney in it,

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00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:18,680
Speaker 2: or at least it used to. But it is a

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00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:23,399
Speaker 2: very important remedy for malaria, which was, like you said,

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Speaker 2: wide rife at the time.

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Speaker 1: I love the phrase wide rife, So okay, it comes

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00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:35,360
Speaker 1: from this substance, comes from the trees in southeast Asia.

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00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:38,360
Speaker 1: So it's a it's a real pickle to get this

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00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:41,600
Speaker 1: stuff out and derive it and make it oh from

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00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:44,120
Speaker 1: the sourcer, right, yeah, yeah, you got it. So there's

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Speaker 1: this guy named William Henry Perkin. He is eighteen years old.

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Speaker 3: He'll start.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he's a chem student, and he says, look, I

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Speaker 1: got to make some alternative to this substance so that

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Speaker 1: more people can have it. He was not successful in

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00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:07,720
Speaker 1: making an anti malarial treatment, but he did accidentally create

437
00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:14,479
Speaker 1: another compound from coal tar, mauvine. It becomes the first

438
00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:20,320
Speaker 1: successful synthetic hair dye or dye is regular dye.

439
00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:21,879
Speaker 2: He should have been on our list of well, I mean,

440
00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:24,600
Speaker 2: we wouldn't happen for this discussion, but we did an

441
00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:28,080
Speaker 2: episode recently on accidental inventions, and this is certainly one

442
00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:30,600
Speaker 2: of the Like you said, derived from coldtar, this stuff

443
00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:33,960
Speaker 2: is actually called mauvine. It also was referred to as

444
00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:38,080
Speaker 2: analine purple. And it was marketed in a burst of

445
00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:42,399
Speaker 2: genius kind of to take this byproduct, this trash product.

446
00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:45,520
Speaker 3: And sell it. Weave it into gold not gold powder.

447
00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:49,360
Speaker 2: It was sold as the first mass produced, commercially available

448
00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:50,960
Speaker 2: synthetic hair dye.

449
00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:54,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, ed at the beginning, it was mostly used for

450
00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:58,240
Speaker 1: dyeing fabric, not hair, and Perkin.

451
00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:00,520
Speaker 2: Things were a little prim and proper during this, like

452
00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:03,400
Speaker 2: funky colors. We're kind of right out.

453
00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:07,160
Speaker 1: Killed me not to remember the name of that temporary

454
00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:12,280
Speaker 1: hair dye anyway, So our buddy Perkin, he is a kiddo,

455
00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:15,520
Speaker 1: as you said, Noel, He has professors, and one of

456
00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:19,800
Speaker 1: his professors is a guy named doctor August Hoffman, and

457
00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:26,800
Speaker 1: Hoffman looks at his student's invention and he creates a

458
00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:31,160
Speaker 1: color changing molecule called here we go.

459
00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:31,600
Speaker 3: Max.

460
00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:35,160
Speaker 1: Parafinyl diaman.

461
00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:37,080
Speaker 3: Is called.

462
00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:46,840
Speaker 1: Thank you, para fenneline diamine para diamine Me.

463
00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:49,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, what is it? Ballerina?

464
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:54,200
Speaker 1: So okay, this is the foundation for most permanent hair

465
00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:57,960
Speaker 1: dyes today and today still yeah, thanks again to Birdie.

466
00:27:57,840 --> 00:27:58,760
Speaker 3: Our source on this.

467
00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:02,600
Speaker 1: Uh nol, Can you introduce us to the first guy

468
00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:05,200
Speaker 1: who figured out how to make hair dye that we

469
00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:06,280
Speaker 1: got poisonous?

470
00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:08,160
Speaker 3: That'd be cool. Let's figure that one out.

471
00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:12,800
Speaker 2: Eugene Shuller nineteen o seven, a French chemist who did

472
00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:15,800
Speaker 2: invent the first non toxic. I love that term, like

473
00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:17,840
Speaker 2: they used to print it on stuff all the time.

474
00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:19,720
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, non toxic like it used to be on

475
00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:22,439
Speaker 2: like magic markers. You know, I wonder if that term

476
00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:24,399
Speaker 2: has fallen out of favor, because it's sort of like

477
00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:27,400
Speaker 2: everything should be assumed at this point to be non toxic.

478
00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:29,119
Speaker 3: But I guess that's not true.

479
00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:32,359
Speaker 1: It's it's like when you go to a gas station

480
00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:35,639
Speaker 1: in the U s assign unlet a gas, or you

481
00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:39,080
Speaker 1: drive by a school and it says drug free school zone. Well,

482
00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:42,640
Speaker 1: where's the cool zone, Where's the cool school? Yeah, exactly

483
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:43,680
Speaker 1: too cool for school.

484
00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:47,840
Speaker 2: Was French chemists Eugene Shuller who did invent the first

485
00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:49,600
Speaker 2: non toxic hair dye in the sense that it wasn't

486
00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:51,760
Speaker 2: lead based, so it was a synthetic hair dye had

487
00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:54,480
Speaker 2: a range of subtle hues, which in the Victorian era

488
00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:58,160
Speaker 2: was key because they weren't trying to go hog wild

489
00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:00,680
Speaker 2: and tissi and snooky themselves, like we're going to get

490
00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:03,480
Speaker 2: to it a bit. The idea of using synthetic hair to, however,

491
00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:07,640
Speaker 2: was not particularly well known and it hadn't achieved popularity

492
00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:10,560
Speaker 2: among French women yet, so he was going to have

493
00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:12,520
Speaker 2: to kind of spread the word if he wanted to

494
00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:14,960
Speaker 2: capitalize on this development.

495
00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:19,080
Speaker 1: Yo, man, he is exactly like Edward Burnett. He is,

496
00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:22,840
Speaker 1: he is pushing the problem then shows up to solve.

497
00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:23,360
Speaker 3: Yeah.

498
00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:27,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, So he starts a company called this is the

499
00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:31,760
Speaker 1: real name in English, the French company of Inoffensive hair Dyes.

500
00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:34,200
Speaker 3: That is, it is so inoffensive man.

501
00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:39,080
Speaker 1: Which Benign later translates to or changes.

502
00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:43,200
Speaker 2: To laoreal loreal, which I'm not sure that does that. Actually, No,

503
00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:46,440
Speaker 2: it's a homonym, right for a popular hair style which

504
00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:50,960
Speaker 2: is orial at the time, a play on words of

505
00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:54,960
Speaker 2: oriole and halo. So it is a made up word,

506
00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:57,360
Speaker 2: but it just boy, does this sound fancy and French?

507
00:29:57,400 --> 00:29:59,640
Speaker 2: Doesn't that he kind of was onto something already, right.

508
00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:04,720
Speaker 1: You know, we're from the United States. We speak English,

509
00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:09,160
Speaker 1: we're still learning it candidly. But I would say that

510
00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:15,000
Speaker 1: anytime we see a word with an apostrophe in there,

511
00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:19,400
Speaker 1: you know, and a nice string of vowels, we automatically

512
00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:22,360
Speaker 1: go oh, fancy, oh hoggin DAWs.

513
00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:26,200
Speaker 3: Indeed, which is also a totally BS word. It is

514
00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:29,320
Speaker 3: made with all those It just looks proper.

515
00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:31,959
Speaker 2: I don't even think of Germans as like being particularly

516
00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:34,280
Speaker 2: up on ice cream, which is an odd choice, and

517
00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:35,920
Speaker 2: I think of that more as maybe like a French

518
00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:36,560
Speaker 2: thing as well.

519
00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:41,040
Speaker 1: Dude, just soft note the Austrians. I never want to

520
00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:42,240
Speaker 1: go back to Austria again.

521
00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:45,320
Speaker 3: But the time they do, how did they hurt you?

522
00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:50,120
Speaker 1: Well, well, unrelated outside of the scope of this cowgo.

523
00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:54,640
Speaker 1: Those guys love ice cream, Yeah, I had weirdly into it.

524
00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:57,760
Speaker 1: I had some really good ice cream in Berlin as well.

525
00:30:57,800 --> 00:30:59,440
Speaker 1: I can't remember the name of the place, but when

526
00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:01,480
Speaker 1: I grew up in Germany, one thing I remember and

527
00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:02,120
Speaker 1: I'll never.

528
00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:05,880
Speaker 2: Forget is this thing called spaghetti ice which is yeah, yeah,

529
00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:07,800
Speaker 2: I think we talked about it before. It's like ice

530
00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:10,520
Speaker 2: cream that looks like spaghetti noodles, and then it's got

531
00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:13,160
Speaker 2: covered in strawberry sauce that looks like Mariner.

532
00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:16,680
Speaker 3: It's super weird. Yeah, it's a texture thing. It's interesting.

533
00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:24,200
Speaker 3: So here we are.

534
00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:31,680
Speaker 1: We just gave you the quick skinny on the giant Laoreal.

535
00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:35,240
Speaker 1: It is worth over two hundred and thirty eight billion

536
00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:37,920
Speaker 1: US dollars today.

537
00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:40,880
Speaker 2: Which is I believe rivaling, if not a little surpassing,

538
00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:43,440
Speaker 2: the number we mentioned the top for the entire hair

539
00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:47,840
Speaker 2: dye industry, which was two hundred and no twenty three billion.

540
00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:49,480
Speaker 3: That's for hair dye alone.

541
00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:53,520
Speaker 2: Loreal has its little Myts, Little Glove, Myts and all

542
00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:58,280
Speaker 2: kinds of stuff right and owns subsidiaries and spinoff brands

543
00:31:58,280 --> 00:31:59,080
Speaker 2: and all of that as well.

544
00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:03,600
Speaker 1: And they all all the success began with that hair

545
00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:08,560
Speaker 1: dye innovation kind of how you know, Nintendo started as

546
00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:11,920
Speaker 1: a playing card and bicycle company.

547
00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:12,280
Speaker 3: Pivoted with the times.

548
00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:16,760
Speaker 1: They pivoted with the times, nol and look, now we're

549
00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:21,960
Speaker 1: outside of World War what we see that there is

550
00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:26,720
Speaker 1: finally suffrage for women in some countries. There are more

551
00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:33,240
Speaker 1: employment opportunities, there are options for birth control. So people

552
00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:37,760
Speaker 1: are feeling like they're more recognized as people, they have

553
00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:42,080
Speaker 1: more agency to express themselves. And this is where we

554
00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:48,480
Speaker 1: see the flapper movement leaning into hair dye as an expression, right,

555
00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:51,680
Speaker 1: a statement. So you know, now you don't have to

556
00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:57,360
Speaker 1: be scared of having bright red hair or platinum blonde hair.

557
00:32:57,200 --> 00:33:02,440
Speaker 2: For sure, and while not toxic, you know, poisonous let's

558
00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:04,440
Speaker 2: just say, I mean certainly would be if you ingested it.

559
00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:08,720
Speaker 2: But these still did contain irritants that would, like you said, Ben,

560
00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:11,600
Speaker 2: could fry out your scalp, frizz out your hair, do

561
00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:15,280
Speaker 2: long term damage to it, things like oxidizing and alkalizing

562
00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:19,880
Speaker 2: agents such as hydrogen peroxide an ammonia and hydrogen peroxide,

563
00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:22,080
Speaker 2: of course, is something that we still hear about today

564
00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:26,320
Speaker 2: as part of some of these hair but as we know,

565
00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:29,080
Speaker 2: folks are often willing to suffer for fashion and roll

566
00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:34,480
Speaker 2: the dice in order to look cool, to look fashionable. However,

567
00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:38,280
Speaker 2: it wasn't until nineteen thirty that the actress Gene Harlow

568
00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:45,520
Speaker 2: popularized probably one of the most gnarly and damaging processes

569
00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:49,480
Speaker 2: to date, the bleaching of the hair.

570
00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:55,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, Gene Harlow the first Platinum Blonde, and we have

571
00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:58,720
Speaker 1: to go to Howard Hughes, who was the manager of

572
00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:03,680
Speaker 1: Gene Harlow at the time. So they are working on

573
00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:09,120
Speaker 1: a rom com a romantic comedy called Platinum Blonde. And

574
00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:14,800
Speaker 1: for this Howard Hughes, in classic soulless producer fashion, says,

575
00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:21,160
Speaker 1: we need something that really pops, and so uh he

576
00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:26,359
Speaker 1: goes deep into uh figuring out how to make her

577
00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:32,040
Speaker 1: the blondest of blonde. After Platinum Blonde the film releases,

578
00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:36,680
Speaker 1: Hughes is, Uh, he's kind of up his own butt

579
00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:39,279
Speaker 1: about this. He's very arrogant and proud of it.

580
00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:42,080
Speaker 2: So he's a bit of an oddball that Howard Hughes saying,

581
00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:45,200
Speaker 2: if anyone's ever seen the Aviator, he had his hands

582
00:34:45,200 --> 00:34:46,600
Speaker 2: in a lot of different stuff.

583
00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:52,960
Speaker 1: And his fingernails were long. He hated, he hated nail clippers.

584
00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:54,960
Speaker 3: Piano or the milk jugs or something like that.

585
00:34:56,440 --> 00:34:58,160
Speaker 2: The guy was troubled and near the end, it is

586
00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:01,000
Speaker 2: definitely a bad downwards spir for old Howard Hughes. At

587
00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:06,160
Speaker 2: the time, he is a Hollywood magnate man of Mogul, Aviator,

588
00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:08,319
Speaker 2: et cetera. And we do need to point out that

589
00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:12,200
Speaker 2: what the medium in which this hair dye needed or

590
00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:15,240
Speaker 2: this hair coloring needed to pop was black and white.

591
00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:18,360
Speaker 3: It had a certain contrast that lent itself.

592
00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:21,600
Speaker 2: To the way black and white film looked, and that

593
00:35:21,719 --> 00:35:24,560
Speaker 2: differentiated her from like, you know, the average sort of

594
00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:27,960
Speaker 2: more mop water blonde, as Wren describes it in her

595
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:31,080
Speaker 2: incredible outline brief Howard Hughes, Actually you can also add

596
00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:35,160
Speaker 2: to his list of accomplishments kind of a.

597
00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:37,440
Speaker 3: Hair dye an entrepreneur.

598
00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:40,200
Speaker 2: I guess he was working on mixing up the right

599
00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:43,680
Speaker 2: combo to get that look that they were trying to

600
00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:43,880
Speaker 2: do it.

601
00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:48,160
Speaker 1: She Yeah, it was definitely yelling at the people who

602
00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:49,240
Speaker 1: knew what they were doing.

603
00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:51,440
Speaker 3: That's true. Back, that's a good point I'm giving Howard

604
00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:53,440
Speaker 3: Waits so much sort of a you know, sort of

605
00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:57,200
Speaker 3: a ep. He was delegating harshly.

606
00:35:57,640 --> 00:35:59,160
Speaker 1: It was delegated aggressive.

607
00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:01,960
Speaker 2: But where do they land, Ben, It's a really odd

608
00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:04,560
Speaker 2: concoction of materials.

609
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:13,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, they make this mix of hydrogen peroxide, sodium hypochlorite, bleach, ammonia,

610
00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:18,920
Speaker 1: and essentially laundry soap. And after platinum blonde releases, Hughes

611
00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:25,200
Speaker 1: is so into this effect. He offers ten thousand US

612
00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:31,800
Speaker 1: dollars to anyone who can replicate the look of platinum

613
00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:36,799
Speaker 1: blonde gene Harlow. And we have to do an inflation calculator.

614
00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:40,000
Speaker 3: Maybe it booop.

615
00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:44,640
Speaker 1: Ten thousand dollars at that time is roughly two hundred

616
00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:48,680
Speaker 1: and seven thousand dollars in twenty twenty five money.

617
00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:51,160
Speaker 2: And he wasn't not expecting to have to pay that

618
00:36:51,239 --> 00:36:54,800
Speaker 2: money out. No, wonder what that bizarro list of ingredients

619
00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:57,000
Speaker 2: that you rattled off, including what was it then, lux

620
00:36:57,400 --> 00:36:58,440
Speaker 2: laundry flakes.

621
00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:02,120
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, the last word in laudry soap.

622
00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:08,000
Speaker 1: This is super bad for our hapless gene Harlowe. It's

623
00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:13,160
Speaker 1: so toxic that later researchers think it may have this

624
00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:17,440
Speaker 1: treatment for her hair may have contributed to her death

625
00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:21,640
Speaker 1: from kidney failure at We are sorry to report folks

626
00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:24,400
Speaker 1: the young age of twenty six.

627
00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:27,919
Speaker 3: Was she a drinker too? I'm not trying to victim Lamy.

628
00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:31,240
Speaker 2: I'm just wondering if there are any exacerbating it seems

629
00:37:31,239 --> 00:37:33,240
Speaker 2: like everybody was in those days.

630
00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:36,239
Speaker 3: What is it for kidneys? Right? I know alcohol is

631
00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:36,799
Speaker 3: bad for the.

632
00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:38,960
Speaker 2: List, it's bad for liver. You're right, I don't know.

633
00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:40,640
Speaker 2: There could be alcohol.

634
00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:43,120
Speaker 3: Alcohol can basically take out age.

635
00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:45,880
Speaker 2: It ain't good for kid Kidney's are purifiers as well.

636
00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:50,360
Speaker 3: It's not great. We're saying kidneys make water not poisonous

637
00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:51,520
Speaker 3: to humans. That's it.

638
00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:55,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, kidneys are the little filters that you can't change.

639
00:37:55,480 --> 00:37:59,799
Speaker 2: Out right exactly. Yeah, So that is sad rip Gene

640
00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:05,040
Speaker 2: Marlow for sure. However, Howard Hughes's influence carried on into

641
00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:10,120
Speaker 2: probably the blonde bombshell that most people think of, Marilyn

642
00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:12,360
Speaker 2: Marilyn Monroe, Marrion Monroe.

643
00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:16,399
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, from earlier and now we fast forward once more.

644
00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:20,240
Speaker 1: This is how we're wrapping up the episode. It's nineteen fifty.

645
00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:23,760
Speaker 1: There's a guy named Lawrence Gelb. He's got a wife

646
00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:28,719
Speaker 1: named Jing Claire. They create the first single step hair

647
00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:33,120
Speaker 1: dye that can lighten your hair without also destroying your

648
00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:35,080
Speaker 1: head and possibly your kidneys.

649
00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:37,400
Speaker 2: Man, Man, you were delivering that with such intensity, I

650
00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:39,440
Speaker 2: was sure they were gonna pull off some sort of heists.

651
00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:42,799
Speaker 2: But they sort of did though, a heist of young

652
00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:46,480
Speaker 2: women's money. The couple's company, Claire All, you might have

653
00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:49,960
Speaker 2: heard still around today, and in fact, our research associate

654
00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:54,719
Speaker 2: Wren is a real booster of that brand, uses that

655
00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:57,120
Speaker 2: brand of hair dye, and it's not a shame to

656
00:38:57,200 --> 00:39:00,720
Speaker 2: admit it, she says. Their flagship product was called Miss

657
00:39:00,719 --> 00:39:04,279
Speaker 2: Claire All Color Bath and became a huge hit with

658
00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:07,840
Speaker 2: housewives because it could kind of boost their natural hues

659
00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:11,160
Speaker 2: hair colors without being too obvious and making it look

660
00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:13,120
Speaker 2: like they were trying too hard. So it really was

661
00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:17,000
Speaker 2: more of like a an enhancement than a total makeover, right.

662
00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:21,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, And I'm doing that because I don't love

663
00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:22,080
Speaker 1: the name.

664
00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:24,160
Speaker 3: I get the history the color bath.

665
00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:27,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just I don't know, man, Miss Claire All

666
00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:31,120
Speaker 1: Color Bath is whatever worked for the time.

667
00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:33,480
Speaker 2: Sure it did, And of course Toren's point, Claire All

668
00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:35,920
Speaker 2: very much still around, So who are we.

669
00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:36,960
Speaker 3: To cast dispersion?

670
00:39:37,239 --> 00:39:40,680
Speaker 1: I think another great point Red makes here is that

671
00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:46,560
Speaker 1: women at the time, in post World War two had

672
00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:52,360
Speaker 1: experienced a greater degree of agency in US society, and

673
00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:56,760
Speaker 1: then people in power try to pull the rug from

674
00:39:56,800 --> 00:40:03,160
Speaker 1: beneath them. So the idea here becomes a concept of

675
00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:08,839
Speaker 1: self expression and retaining one's agency. Now you don't have

676
00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:14,400
Speaker 1: to go to a specialist an expert. You can you

677
00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:18,040
Speaker 1: can mess with your hair in your own house. Still

678
00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:22,880
Speaker 1: haired eye is not a mainstream beauty product at this point,

679
00:40:23,560 --> 00:40:27,920
Speaker 1: and advertising companies pull another Bernets, just like our French

680
00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:32,719
Speaker 1: buddy who created loreal, and they try to normalize this,

681
00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:35,759
Speaker 1: and they say, look, you know, nobody can tell if

682
00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:39,240
Speaker 1: you're actually using this. There's a nineteen fifty six clareal

683
00:40:39,280 --> 00:40:43,000
Speaker 1: Ad that just says does she or doesn't she?

684
00:40:43,280 --> 00:40:44,640
Speaker 3: Which is she or won't she?

685
00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:49,480
Speaker 1: Bothers nice, which is bothersome nole because it reminds me

686
00:40:49,560 --> 00:40:54,160
Speaker 1: of maybe it's makeup. Maybe it's Mabeline exactly yeah, or no,

687
00:40:54,280 --> 00:40:55,759
Speaker 1: well maybe she's born with it.

688
00:40:56,080 --> 00:40:56,360
Speaker 3: Right.

689
00:40:57,360 --> 00:41:00,239
Speaker 2: They may have evolved it, but that's the that's the

690
00:41:00,239 --> 00:41:01,200
Speaker 2: the intent behind it.

691
00:41:01,600 --> 00:41:03,480
Speaker 1: You got it, you got it, And we see the

692
00:41:03,520 --> 00:41:07,920
Speaker 1: results over time. In the nineteen fifties, something like less

693
00:41:07,960 --> 00:41:10,960
Speaker 1: than ten percent of women in the US eye their hair,

694
00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:14,040
Speaker 1: or something between you know, four and seven percent. By

695
00:41:14,080 --> 00:41:18,320
Speaker 1: the seventies, that figure has risen to a little north

696
00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:19,320
Speaker 1: of forty percent.

697
00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:22,960
Speaker 2: So by twenty fifteen, an estimated seventy percent of American

698
00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:26,840
Speaker 2: women we're using hair dye, according to CNN Women and Men. Now,

699
00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:29,799
Speaker 2: of course it is you know, all bets are off.

700
00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:33,560
Speaker 2: There's all kinds of new techniques and you know, gradient

701
00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:37,120
Speaker 2: dye jobs and multi colored things, split dye.

702
00:41:37,160 --> 00:41:38,600
Speaker 3: I mean, like, it's so cool.

703
00:41:38,840 --> 00:41:40,919
Speaker 2: My kid is a huge fan and changes their hair

704
00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:43,640
Speaker 2: every couple of weeks, and I am here for it.

705
00:41:43,719 --> 00:41:48,440
Speaker 2: And this is in no small part thanks to Titian Snooky.

706
00:41:49,120 --> 00:41:51,680
Speaker 2: We're getting to them Bellamo. That was my first exposure

707
00:41:51,719 --> 00:41:54,960
Speaker 2: to kind of punk rock hair color. I actually was

708
00:41:55,040 --> 00:41:57,080
Speaker 2: known to have some funky hair colors when I was

709
00:41:57,440 --> 00:42:01,160
Speaker 2: a little youthful upstart myself. These were two punk sisters

710
00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:03,480
Speaker 2: which use that in the positive turn.

711
00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:04,320
Speaker 3: They weren't saying.

712
00:42:04,200 --> 00:42:07,400
Speaker 2: Punk kids from the rocks, and they founded a company

713
00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:08,640
Speaker 2: called Manic Panic.

714
00:42:09,480 --> 00:42:14,000
Speaker 3: That's the one man. It's not temporary, it's highly permanent.

715
00:42:14,120 --> 00:42:17,200
Speaker 1: No I'm thinking of a different thing that but manic panic.

716
00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:18,680
Speaker 3: Yeahic panic is the big one.

717
00:42:18,760 --> 00:42:21,680
Speaker 2: Tish Snooky's Manic Panic is how it's still branded today.

718
00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:25,400
Speaker 2: They started this creative hair color line back in nineteen

719
00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:26,040
Speaker 2: seventy seven.

720
00:42:26,280 --> 00:42:28,840
Speaker 3: Mm hmm. Yeah. And this is.

721
00:42:30,800 --> 00:42:36,440
Speaker 1: Hair is fashion, right. This is not meant to impersonate

722
00:42:36,600 --> 00:42:40,360
Speaker 1: a natural hair color. This is to say I have

723
00:42:40,520 --> 00:42:43,239
Speaker 1: chosen bright blue or something like that.

724
00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:43,600
Speaker 3: You know.

725
00:42:43,880 --> 00:42:46,880
Speaker 1: And we have to note again the first thing we

726
00:42:46,960 --> 00:42:50,600
Speaker 1: said at the top, your body is your own. You know,

727
00:42:50,760 --> 00:42:54,120
Speaker 1: your choices are your own, and that's a very important thing.

728
00:42:54,280 --> 00:42:57,360
Speaker 1: So don't let people bully you about it, you know,

729
00:42:57,560 --> 00:43:01,520
Speaker 1: embrace your impirans. If you choose to dye your hair,

730
00:43:01,920 --> 00:43:04,880
Speaker 1: at least you won't get lead poisoning, now.

731
00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:05,480
Speaker 3: That's for sure.

732
00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:07,920
Speaker 2: And I did want to say I remember very distinctly

733
00:43:08,040 --> 00:43:10,239
Speaker 2: growing up, at least one of the schools that I

734
00:43:10,280 --> 00:43:15,279
Speaker 2: went to, it was not allowed to have funky colored hair.

735
00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:18,360
Speaker 2: It was very much for boten, which is kind of

736
00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:20,520
Speaker 2: interesting we think back on it now it doesn't seem

737
00:43:20,560 --> 00:43:22,040
Speaker 2: to be the case, at least to the school that

738
00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:25,000
Speaker 2: my kid goes to. But that was a form of

739
00:43:25,080 --> 00:43:27,520
Speaker 2: kind of shutting down a form of creative expression because

740
00:43:27,520 --> 00:43:28,000
Speaker 2: I can't think.

741
00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:30,239
Speaker 3: But what are they going to say? It's distracting, Like,

742
00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:31,000
Speaker 3: give me a break.

743
00:43:31,080 --> 00:43:32,680
Speaker 2: It just seems to me to be a way of

744
00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:34,320
Speaker 2: keeping the drones in line.

745
00:43:34,560 --> 00:43:40,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, and everybody's childhood is unique. Every person is unique.

746
00:43:40,560 --> 00:43:44,799
Speaker 1: We hope that you found this episode as fascinating as

747
00:43:44,880 --> 00:43:47,960
Speaker 1: we did. We are not beauticians, We are not a

748
00:43:47,960 --> 00:43:52,879
Speaker 1: cosmetologist nor hair dressers, but we are big fans of

749
00:43:52,960 --> 00:43:56,359
Speaker 1: ridiculous history. We hope you are as well. Big big

750
00:43:56,440 --> 00:43:59,600
Speaker 1: thanks to everyone for tuning in. Big thanks to our

751
00:43:59,640 --> 00:44:03,280
Speaker 1: super producer, mister Max Williams, as well as our research

752
00:44:03,400 --> 00:44:05,960
Speaker 1: associate for this, the legendary Wren.

753
00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:09,480
Speaker 2: Indeed, this is a really fun one, and we actually

754
00:44:09,480 --> 00:44:11,680
Speaker 2: have a bunch of tangents and trivia that we're not

755
00:44:11,719 --> 00:44:13,799
Speaker 2: going to get to today that we are absolutely gonna

756
00:44:13,800 --> 00:44:17,320
Speaker 2: snip out and put in a upcoming kind of compilation

757
00:44:18,080 --> 00:44:22,399
Speaker 2: episode that I'm very excited to get to. Huge thanks

758
00:44:22,400 --> 00:44:24,680
Speaker 2: to Chris Frasciotis and needs Cheff codes here in Spirit

759
00:44:24,960 --> 00:44:27,120
Speaker 2: not the strickle on the quiz storin Jay Bahama Sjacob's

760
00:44:27,120 --> 00:44:27,600
Speaker 2: the Puzzler.

761
00:44:27,880 --> 00:44:31,640
Speaker 1: Big big thanks to our rude dudes over ridiculous crime

762
00:44:31,719 --> 00:44:36,359
Speaker 1: who recently made an appearance on the Puzzler. So no spoilers,

763
00:44:36,760 --> 00:44:39,920
Speaker 1: not going to tell you the answers to the puzzles

764
00:44:39,920 --> 00:44:43,600
Speaker 1: Bahamas poses, but you should tune in. It is a

765
00:44:43,640 --> 00:44:48,680
Speaker 1: treat as always to the hear suit and non here

766
00:44:48,800 --> 00:44:52,799
Speaker 1: suit alike. Thanks for joining us, you know, send us

767
00:44:52,800 --> 00:44:56,480
Speaker 1: your weirdest haircuts. Have you seen that subreddit beat me

768
00:44:56,520 --> 00:44:58,680
Speaker 1: here Max, just my shit up?

769
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:02,399
Speaker 3: I don't know about that one. Check it out, check

770
00:45:02,440 --> 00:45:04,160
Speaker 3: it out, see you next step folks.

771
00:45:11,200 --> 00:45:15,000
Speaker 2: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

772
00:45:15,080 --> 00:45:17,240
Speaker 2: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows,