1 00:00:03,640 --> 00:00:06,439 Speaker 1: Hig and everybody. I'm Dan Horde, and thanks for downloading 2 00:00:06,440 --> 00:00:13,280 Speaker 1: the Bengals Booth Podcast. When I'm sixty four edition as 3 00:00:13,320 --> 00:00:17,040 Speaker 1: I visit with retiring sports columnist Paul Docherty from the 4 00:00:17,079 --> 00:00:21,520 Speaker 1: Cincinnati Enquirer. Coming up, we'll discuss his relationships with Paul 5 00:00:21,560 --> 00:00:24,599 Speaker 1: Brown and Mike Brown, find out what he learned while 6 00:00:24,640 --> 00:00:28,480 Speaker 1: collaborating on a book with Chad Johnson, and discuss Zach Taylor, 7 00:00:28,600 --> 00:00:32,320 Speaker 1: Joe Burrow, and much more. The Bengals Booth Podcast is 8 00:00:32,360 --> 00:00:36,320 Speaker 1: presented by Ultimate Bengals. Download Ultimate Bengals ahead of the 9 00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:39,400 Speaker 1: twenty twenty two season. It's free to play next level 10 00:00:39,479 --> 00:00:44,000 Speaker 1: fantasy football with fantastic Bengals prizes. Get it now on 11 00:00:44,080 --> 00:00:46,760 Speaker 1: the App Store and Google Play. And here's a quick 12 00:00:46,760 --> 00:00:49,280 Speaker 1: reminder that you can have the latest edition of this 13 00:00:49,320 --> 00:00:52,879 Speaker 1: podcast delivered right to your phone, tablet, or computer by 14 00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:57,080 Speaker 1: subscribing wherever you get your podcasts. It's the greatest thing 15 00:00:57,200 --> 00:01:02,400 Speaker 1: since Last Call Trivia. My wife Peg and I, along 16 00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:04,520 Speaker 1: with our good friends Dave and NICKI, love to go 17 00:01:04,600 --> 00:01:08,000 Speaker 1: out once a week to trivia nights at bars. And 18 00:01:08,080 --> 00:01:11,000 Speaker 1: there's a company called Last Called Trivia that's got the 19 00:01:11,040 --> 00:01:14,399 Speaker 1: concept down to a science. A host runs the show. 20 00:01:14,720 --> 00:01:17,640 Speaker 1: You enter your answers on your phone, and the contest 21 00:01:17,680 --> 00:01:20,560 Speaker 1: is designed to last for two hours, with prizes going 22 00:01:20,560 --> 00:01:24,280 Speaker 1: to the top three teams. The only expense is whatever 23 00:01:24,319 --> 00:01:27,520 Speaker 1: you eat and drink. The company runs trivia games in 24 00:01:27,560 --> 00:01:29,920 Speaker 1: a wide variety of cities, so if you're interested in 25 00:01:29,959 --> 00:01:34,720 Speaker 1: trying it sometime, just go to last called Trivia dot com. 26 00:01:34,760 --> 00:01:37,479 Speaker 1: And if you wind up playing in Cincinnati and run 27 00:01:37,520 --> 00:01:42,400 Speaker 1: into a team named the Utopians, well you've been warned. 28 00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:45,800 Speaker 1: Before I get to my guest, here's an invitation to 29 00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:49,520 Speaker 1: grab your yoga mat and join Hoode on Saturday, June 30 00:01:49,600 --> 00:01:53,400 Speaker 1: twenty fifth at nine am for NAMA's Day Yoga on 31 00:01:53,440 --> 00:01:56,800 Speaker 1: the Field at Paul Brown Stadium. Register now at Bengals 32 00:01:56,800 --> 00:02:01,520 Speaker 1: dot com slash Yoga. It's presented by Nell in partnership 33 00:02:01,600 --> 00:02:06,600 Speaker 1: with Kroger and Title Babe Period Bank. I moved to 34 00:02:06,600 --> 00:02:10,120 Speaker 1: Cincinnati in nineteen ninety six, so for twenty six years 35 00:02:10,160 --> 00:02:13,519 Speaker 1: now I've been reading the work of Cincinnati Inquirer sports 36 00:02:13,560 --> 00:02:18,840 Speaker 1: columnist Paul Docherty. Like any great columnist, Paul is provocative 37 00:02:18,960 --> 00:02:22,560 Speaker 1: and opinionated, and I frequently don't agree with him, but 38 00:02:22,639 --> 00:02:25,040 Speaker 1: I'm always interested in what he has to say, and 39 00:02:25,120 --> 00:02:29,200 Speaker 1: I marvel at his ability to write. This week we 40 00:02:29,320 --> 00:02:32,600 Speaker 1: talked about his career and is more than three decades 41 00:02:32,639 --> 00:02:37,240 Speaker 1: of covering the Bengals. Doc. Let's start with your news. 42 00:02:37,280 --> 00:02:40,120 Speaker 1: You are retiring at the end of the month. You 43 00:02:40,200 --> 00:02:44,320 Speaker 1: still have your fastball. Why and why? Now that's a 44 00:02:44,320 --> 00:02:46,359 Speaker 1: heck of a question, one that I never really had 45 00:02:47,080 --> 00:02:52,360 Speaker 1: a satisfactory answer for. I will be sixty four and 46 00:02:52,360 --> 00:02:58,919 Speaker 1: a half. Dan. Within the past three four years, both 47 00:02:58,960 --> 00:03:02,639 Speaker 1: of my parents have past, which got me to thinking 48 00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:05,920 Speaker 1: that I'm still healthy, and I still have some time, 49 00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:09,280 Speaker 1: and I still love things undone that don't involve the 50 00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:14,320 Speaker 1: daily grind of inflicting my opinion on people. So it 51 00:03:14,720 --> 00:03:18,280 Speaker 1: just seemed like it seemed like the right time, is 52 00:03:18,320 --> 00:03:19,959 Speaker 1: all I can tell you, And I'm sure that's what 53 00:03:20,120 --> 00:03:24,280 Speaker 1: everybody says, but it just it feels right. I appreciate 54 00:03:24,320 --> 00:03:27,760 Speaker 1: that you say I still have my fastball. Sometimes I wonder. 55 00:03:29,160 --> 00:03:33,239 Speaker 1: I didn't used to wonder, and I always wanted to 56 00:03:33,280 --> 00:03:38,120 Speaker 1: be able to call my own shot, and I'm going 57 00:03:38,160 --> 00:03:41,800 Speaker 1: to be able to do that. So um yeah, yeah, 58 00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:45,840 Speaker 1: end of my end of June. You've written books, including 59 00:03:45,840 --> 00:03:49,280 Speaker 1: one with Chad Johnson several years ago. Will you write 60 00:03:49,280 --> 00:03:53,200 Speaker 1: more books? That's somewhat up to me and somewhat up 61 00:03:53,200 --> 00:04:01,800 Speaker 1: to my agent. Yes is the short answer, as everybody 62 00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:04,240 Speaker 1: who writes for a living. I plan on writing a 63 00:04:04,320 --> 00:04:07,640 Speaker 1: great American novel. I'm not sure when, and I'm not 64 00:04:07,680 --> 00:04:10,160 Speaker 1: sure about what, but I just I just know I'm 65 00:04:10,200 --> 00:04:13,040 Speaker 1: going to get that done, you know, in my spare time. 66 00:04:14,960 --> 00:04:17,960 Speaker 1: But if anybody needs a book written, give me a shout. 67 00:04:18,200 --> 00:04:22,279 Speaker 1: I will definitely ponder. It'll be just finished a book 68 00:04:22,279 --> 00:04:24,919 Speaker 1: on Nate Ebner. People might not know who Nate Ebner is, 69 00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:28,920 Speaker 1: but Nate Edner is a guy from Springfield, Ohio who 70 00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:32,719 Speaker 1: has three Super Bowl rings and played for the US 71 00:04:33,279 --> 00:04:36,080 Speaker 1: in the two thousand and sixteen Olympics as a member 72 00:04:36,120 --> 00:04:41,000 Speaker 1: of the rugby team. Fantastic story. A guy who arose 73 00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:44,560 Speaker 1: from from nothing, walked on at Ohio State having not 74 00:04:44,680 --> 00:04:48,800 Speaker 1: played high school football, and ended up being a valued 75 00:04:48,839 --> 00:04:51,520 Speaker 1: member of special team, so valued that he got drafted 76 00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:54,440 Speaker 1: higher than Tom Brady by the way he yeared a 77 00:04:54,600 --> 00:05:00,839 Speaker 1: year later, but higher, and his first love was rugby, 78 00:05:00,920 --> 00:05:04,120 Speaker 1: had to ditch rugby to Good Ohio State to play football, 79 00:05:05,040 --> 00:05:10,200 Speaker 1: came back to rugby six years after he uh After 80 00:05:10,320 --> 00:05:13,840 Speaker 1: six years of not playing the sport, made the US 81 00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:20,000 Speaker 1: Olympic team in twenty sixteen. His father was a junkyard 82 00:05:20,120 --> 00:05:23,880 Speaker 1: proprietor in Springfield and one of the one of the 83 00:05:23,920 --> 00:05:26,719 Speaker 1: craziest people I've ever had the pleasure of writing about. 84 00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:30,920 Speaker 1: His father was murdered in the junkyard by one of 85 00:05:30,960 --> 00:05:35,000 Speaker 1: his supposed customers who thought that his father had done 86 00:05:35,080 --> 00:05:38,040 Speaker 1: him wrong. And when that was when Nate was nineteen. 87 00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:42,480 Speaker 1: And the book is more about the relationship that Nate 88 00:05:42,560 --> 00:05:47,479 Speaker 1: had with his dad than about sports, although a big 89 00:05:47,560 --> 00:05:49,719 Speaker 1: chunk of it is sports, given that he played for 90 00:05:49,760 --> 00:05:53,480 Speaker 1: the Buck Guys and Bill Belichick and was an Olympian. 91 00:05:53,560 --> 00:05:56,400 Speaker 1: So anyway, that's a long, long answer to a short question. 92 00:05:56,480 --> 00:05:59,919 Speaker 1: And that's the last book. The next book is is 93 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:02,320 Speaker 1: yet to be, but I'm looking forward to it. What 94 00:06:02,480 --> 00:06:05,359 Speaker 1: was the most interesting thing you learned about Belichick from 95 00:06:05,360 --> 00:06:10,480 Speaker 1: collaborating with Nate, Well, probably nothing that nobody else people 96 00:06:10,520 --> 00:06:13,880 Speaker 1: don't already know about Bill Belichick. Nate, Nate was pretty 97 00:06:13,920 --> 00:06:19,160 Speaker 1: protective of Bill. Bill was totally supportive of Nate's Olympic effort. 98 00:06:21,360 --> 00:06:24,880 Speaker 1: The US first game, in uh first match in the 99 00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:28,839 Speaker 1: sixteen Olympics, they broadcast on the big screen at Gillette 100 00:06:28,839 --> 00:06:34,240 Speaker 1: Stadium during practice so his teammates could see Nate play Bill. 101 00:06:34,440 --> 00:06:38,080 Speaker 1: Bill would a great student of American history, especially UH 102 00:06:39,440 --> 00:06:44,560 Speaker 1: War type history, and would quiz his players on various 103 00:06:44,600 --> 00:06:47,600 Speaker 1: aspects of you know, if it were if they were 104 00:06:47,880 --> 00:06:51,000 Speaker 1: in OTAs on June six Bill would demand that they 105 00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:54,520 Speaker 1: know the importance of June sixth, nineteen forty four, which 106 00:06:54,600 --> 00:06:59,240 Speaker 1: was of course the d D Landings. So yeah, and 107 00:06:59,480 --> 00:07:03,160 Speaker 1: but but by the same token, Bill kept his distance 108 00:07:03,600 --> 00:07:07,880 Speaker 1: with everyone. He had no favorites. He saved his harshest 109 00:07:07,880 --> 00:07:12,040 Speaker 1: criticism for Tom Brady essentially to show the rest of 110 00:07:12,080 --> 00:07:15,040 Speaker 1: the team that, you know, even this guy can be ripped, 111 00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:18,760 Speaker 1: and I'm going to rip him. Kept his distance from 112 00:07:18,840 --> 00:07:21,840 Speaker 1: from everybody, and I'm not sure any player on the 113 00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:27,080 Speaker 1: team really knew Bill Belichick. And I got the impression 114 00:07:27,080 --> 00:07:30,720 Speaker 1: from Nate that that's exactly how Bill wanted it. All right, 115 00:07:30,800 --> 00:07:33,120 Speaker 1: this is a Bengals podcast, so let's get to some 116 00:07:33,200 --> 00:07:36,520 Speaker 1: Bengals topics. You started covering the Bengals in eighty eight, 117 00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:39,240 Speaker 1: just in time for Super Bowl twenty three, a team 118 00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:42,520 Speaker 1: that included Boomer Asias and Chris collins Worth, Anthony Millenio, 119 00:07:42,680 --> 00:07:46,640 Speaker 1: Solomon Wilcotts and several other players who are would don't 120 00:07:46,680 --> 00:07:53,040 Speaker 1: forget Icky Woods and others, famously talkative, famously colorful. Was 121 00:07:53,120 --> 00:07:58,600 Speaker 1: that team a sportswriter's dream? Yes, m yeah, I have 122 00:07:58,760 --> 00:08:02,960 Speaker 1: very fond memories of spinney Field, which sounds crazy if 123 00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:05,800 Speaker 1: anybody knows anything about spinney Field. I used to say 124 00:08:05,800 --> 00:08:09,440 Speaker 1: that spinney Field was where the CIA would interrogate spies 125 00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:14,600 Speaker 1: on weekends. But Um, boomer and and the entire offensive 126 00:08:14,640 --> 00:08:18,840 Speaker 1: line occupied a corner of the spinney Field locker room, 127 00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:21,960 Speaker 1: way way way far in the back, and we would 128 00:08:21,960 --> 00:08:24,600 Speaker 1: they would let the media in at lunchtime, and those 129 00:08:24,640 --> 00:08:29,000 Speaker 1: guys would always be there. And if if you wanted 130 00:08:29,160 --> 00:08:32,560 Speaker 1: your ego taken down, you paid a visit to the 131 00:08:32,559 --> 00:08:34,800 Speaker 1: boys in the in the back corner of the locker room, 132 00:08:34,800 --> 00:08:36,439 Speaker 1: because they'd be sure to do it and rip you 133 00:08:36,600 --> 00:08:39,720 Speaker 1: for everything from what you dressed like to what you wrote, 134 00:08:40,360 --> 00:08:42,360 Speaker 1: uh that that kind of thing, and also gave you 135 00:08:42,440 --> 00:08:46,439 Speaker 1: great stories. Those guys were great. Um, the Icky story 136 00:08:46,559 --> 00:08:49,760 Speaker 1: was great. Obviously, everybody knew that Paul Brown did the 137 00:08:49,760 --> 00:08:53,640 Speaker 1: shuffle at the Super Bowl. Um, and there were there 138 00:08:53,640 --> 00:08:57,840 Speaker 1: were good just good people, not only good players, and 139 00:08:57,960 --> 00:08:59,960 Speaker 1: fun to be around. But but good guys, I mean, 140 00:09:00,360 --> 00:09:05,680 Speaker 1: I mean, Anthony Munios was on that team. Obviously, Boom 141 00:09:05,880 --> 00:09:09,960 Speaker 1: Boomer himself was as chatty as as they came back then. 142 00:09:10,760 --> 00:09:14,000 Speaker 1: It was a lot of fun then, And like every rookie, 143 00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:18,319 Speaker 1: I thought, Hey, we're gonna do this every year. This 144 00:09:18,600 --> 00:09:22,280 Speaker 1: is a young team. In fact, age wise, it resembled 145 00:09:22,440 --> 00:09:25,040 Speaker 1: last year's Bengals team in terms of the ages of 146 00:09:25,080 --> 00:09:27,600 Speaker 1: the players. Um. Yeah, we're gonna do this a lot, 147 00:09:27,720 --> 00:09:30,080 Speaker 1: and as we know, we didn't do it a lot. 148 00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:33,200 Speaker 1: Is that a cautionary tale for how we feel about 149 00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:37,800 Speaker 1: the current team? Um? It is for me. Um And 150 00:09:38,200 --> 00:09:40,600 Speaker 1: I've been accused that once or twice over the years 151 00:09:40,600 --> 00:09:42,880 Speaker 1: of being a debbie down or you might not know that, damn. 152 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:48,800 Speaker 1: I mean, but um, I yeah. It's very very hard 153 00:09:48,880 --> 00:09:53,040 Speaker 1: to repeat to get back to the super Bowl the 154 00:09:53,080 --> 00:09:55,800 Speaker 1: next year. So much is working against you. This team 155 00:09:55,880 --> 00:09:58,880 Speaker 1: is better on paper than last year's team was at 156 00:09:58,920 --> 00:10:03,120 Speaker 1: this time, but last year had a certain magic to 157 00:10:03,200 --> 00:10:06,320 Speaker 1: it that I don't know if they can duplicate. I 158 00:10:06,360 --> 00:10:09,800 Speaker 1: hope they can schedules a lot harder. I mean, I 159 00:10:09,800 --> 00:10:11,760 Speaker 1: was looking at it this morning. They play at Dallas, 160 00:10:11,760 --> 00:10:15,120 Speaker 1: at New Orleans at Tennessee at Tampa Bay at New England, 161 00:10:15,480 --> 00:10:19,200 Speaker 1: my goodness. And they've got the bills at home in 162 00:10:19,320 --> 00:10:23,199 Speaker 1: Kansas City at home, so we'll see. They stayed relatively 163 00:10:23,200 --> 00:10:28,640 Speaker 1: injury free last year. They stayed COVID free, don't I 164 00:10:28,679 --> 00:10:31,160 Speaker 1: don't know if any team could repeat that or that 165 00:10:31,280 --> 00:10:34,600 Speaker 1: had that kind of chemistry or Zach loves to call 166 00:10:34,640 --> 00:10:38,560 Speaker 1: it the culture, you know, the culture, And I kind 167 00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:41,000 Speaker 1: of pooh pooed that for a few years, and I 168 00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:44,080 Speaker 1: was wrong. Zach was right. The culture was important, The 169 00:10:44,120 --> 00:10:47,040 Speaker 1: culture mattered. The culture helped them tremendously last year. Do 170 00:10:47,120 --> 00:10:48,959 Speaker 1: they have the same culture this year? I don't know, 171 00:10:49,720 --> 00:10:54,320 Speaker 1: So again, long answer, short question, we shall see. Paul 172 00:10:54,400 --> 00:10:56,760 Speaker 1: Dougherty is our guest. What do you remember about meeting 173 00:10:56,800 --> 00:11:03,280 Speaker 1: Paul Brown? The first time I met Paul Brown was 174 00:11:03,360 --> 00:11:09,080 Speaker 1: in April of nineteen eighty eight or was it eighty nine, 175 00:11:09,160 --> 00:11:14,559 Speaker 1: eighty eight. He gave me a tourist Spinny Field, and 176 00:11:15,800 --> 00:11:19,800 Speaker 1: I understand Dan. Before that, my job from my previous 177 00:11:20,240 --> 00:11:23,520 Speaker 1: two stops along the road in Dallas and in New 178 00:11:23,600 --> 00:11:28,840 Speaker 1: York was covering college football national college football, and as 179 00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:33,120 Speaker 1: such I made frequent visits to places like Oklahoma in 180 00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:38,440 Speaker 1: Texas and UCLA in Ohio state where the players like 181 00:11:38,559 --> 00:11:41,240 Speaker 1: in high school, I used to say that the players 182 00:11:41,360 --> 00:11:44,080 Speaker 1: cars were nicer than the teachers, while the players car 183 00:11:44,320 --> 00:11:46,480 Speaker 1: or the students cars were nicer than the teachers. The 184 00:11:46,520 --> 00:11:50,120 Speaker 1: players cars in college were nicer than the assistant coaches, 185 00:11:50,520 --> 00:11:54,560 Speaker 1: and the weight rooms were massive because the whole idea 186 00:11:54,640 --> 00:11:57,719 Speaker 1: was to impress recruits with all this stuff. Right, So 187 00:11:57,720 --> 00:12:00,640 Speaker 1: with that in mind, I'm in Cincinnati and Paul Brown 188 00:12:00,679 --> 00:12:03,760 Speaker 1: takes me into Spinny Field and they had indoor outdoor 189 00:12:03,800 --> 00:12:07,840 Speaker 1: carpeting on the floor. It was invariably kind of wet 190 00:12:09,080 --> 00:12:15,120 Speaker 1: for some reason. They had those wire mesh lockers like 191 00:12:15,160 --> 00:12:17,560 Speaker 1: you had in high school, so if you threw dirty 192 00:12:17,600 --> 00:12:19,760 Speaker 1: socks in there that smelled, at least they could air 193 00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:24,080 Speaker 1: out a little bit. And they had one twenty inch 194 00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:29,800 Speaker 1: color television bolted to the back wall. And Peb could 195 00:12:29,920 --> 00:12:31,920 Speaker 1: not get over the fact that they had a television 196 00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:34,559 Speaker 1: in the locker room. He said, I've never known a 197 00:12:34,679 --> 00:12:38,120 Speaker 1: foot a television to help a team win a football game. 198 00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:41,800 Speaker 1: And I'm thinking, with my background, man, what what what 199 00:12:41,960 --> 00:12:46,559 Speaker 1: have I gotten myself into here? That said, I've been 200 00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:51,680 Speaker 1: told that that Peb gave me his last interview. I 201 00:12:51,720 --> 00:12:54,800 Speaker 1: don't recall that. I don't remember what we talked about, 202 00:12:55,400 --> 00:12:57,920 Speaker 1: but he was always great to me, same as Mike 203 00:12:57,960 --> 00:13:02,640 Speaker 1: has always been great to me. And I wish that 204 00:13:02,760 --> 00:13:05,560 Speaker 1: I had gotten there a little earlier, you know, before 205 00:13:05,559 --> 00:13:08,480 Speaker 1: he passed, and been able to appreciate him more and 206 00:13:08,840 --> 00:13:12,800 Speaker 1: learn more from him than I did. He once referred 207 00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:17,280 Speaker 1: to Mike as charming in an exasperating sort of way. 208 00:13:18,679 --> 00:13:24,000 Speaker 1: Explain why, Yeah, that still holds true. I mean, Mike, 209 00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:26,880 Speaker 1: Mike is Mike, and Mike will never change, and that's 210 00:13:26,920 --> 00:13:28,640 Speaker 1: one of one of the many things that I like 211 00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:36,000 Speaker 1: about Mike. Um. Yeah, he never at least I don't think. 212 00:13:36,080 --> 00:13:37,920 Speaker 1: I haven't asked him, and I planned to in the 213 00:13:37,960 --> 00:13:42,920 Speaker 1: next couple of weeks. He never took personally the criticism 214 00:13:42,960 --> 00:13:46,920 Speaker 1: and man, I leveled Mike over and over and over again. 215 00:13:48,200 --> 00:13:51,280 Speaker 1: Never not took mine and never did not take my call, 216 00:13:51,840 --> 00:13:55,360 Speaker 1: never said no to an interview. When we had the interviews, 217 00:13:55,400 --> 00:14:02,520 Speaker 1: he was He was pleasant, but on the other hand, intractable. 218 00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:06,360 Speaker 1: For many years, Mike was Mike, and Mike was going 219 00:14:06,400 --> 00:14:09,160 Speaker 1: to do it his way and if you didn't like that, well, 220 00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:13,320 Speaker 1: he didn't really care. If he never took exception to 221 00:14:13,480 --> 00:14:16,040 Speaker 1: something that you wrote. Was there a flip side to 222 00:14:16,080 --> 00:14:17,920 Speaker 1: the coin? Did he ever pay you a compliment for 223 00:14:17,960 --> 00:14:22,680 Speaker 1: something he wrote? Yes? Yes, I wrote a book about him, 224 00:14:22,720 --> 00:14:26,120 Speaker 1: a memoir about raising my daughter Jillian, who has Down syndrome. 225 00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:31,160 Speaker 1: Mike read the book unbeknownst to me. I didn't send 226 00:14:31,240 --> 00:14:35,240 Speaker 1: him a copy or anything, and I got, as is 227 00:14:35,360 --> 00:14:40,920 Speaker 1: Mike style, I got a two page handwritten letter back 228 00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:46,800 Speaker 1: from Mike essentially saying it was a wonderful book and 229 00:14:46,960 --> 00:14:51,600 Speaker 1: that he learned a lot about well, obviously my family, 230 00:14:51,800 --> 00:14:56,440 Speaker 1: but about raising a child with a disability, and how 231 00:14:56,520 --> 00:14:59,600 Speaker 1: much he liked the book. And I still have that letter. 232 00:14:59,640 --> 00:15:02,600 Speaker 1: In fact, for many many years, I had it under 233 00:15:02,600 --> 00:15:06,200 Speaker 1: the glass on my desk in my office here at home, 234 00:15:06,640 --> 00:15:09,760 Speaker 1: and I glanced at it occasionally. A remarkable thing for 235 00:15:09,840 --> 00:15:15,440 Speaker 1: him to do. What's the nastiest confrontation you ever had 236 00:15:15,760 --> 00:15:18,840 Speaker 1: with a player coach? I don't, I don't know. There 237 00:15:19,200 --> 00:15:23,560 Speaker 1: There aren't many of those. Um, Carl Pickens was a 238 00:15:23,640 --> 00:15:26,600 Speaker 1: strange guy. I don't know if I had a nasty 239 00:15:26,720 --> 00:15:30,920 Speaker 1: relationship with Carl, but he was just different, you know. 240 00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:36,240 Speaker 1: I one year he gave me a really great interview 241 00:15:36,440 --> 00:15:42,560 Speaker 1: right before the season, and I wrote a pretty complimentary 242 00:15:42,560 --> 00:15:47,600 Speaker 1: column about him, not necessarily about football, but just about him. 243 00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:51,760 Speaker 1: And the next day after we had a probably half 244 00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:54,480 Speaker 1: an hour interview where he was very cordial and gracious. 245 00:15:55,480 --> 00:15:58,040 Speaker 1: The next day he acted as if he didn't even 246 00:15:58,120 --> 00:16:01,280 Speaker 1: know who I was. You know, hey, Carl, how's it going? 247 00:16:02,680 --> 00:16:07,520 Speaker 1: Walked right past me. I had Louis Billips, the old 248 00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:11,520 Speaker 1: the old cornerback who was now deceased, who actually gave 249 00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:14,320 Speaker 1: gave up a touchdown to John Taylor in the Super 250 00:16:14,360 --> 00:16:17,960 Speaker 1: Bowl in eighty nine, threatened to kill me, and I 251 00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:20,840 Speaker 1: believed him. He said, if you ever write another word 252 00:16:20,880 --> 00:16:24,200 Speaker 1: about me, I will kill you. And I never wrote 253 00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:29,000 Speaker 1: another word of that. Uh. Mike brim another corner who 254 00:16:29,040 --> 00:16:33,000 Speaker 1: was also deceased, UM, got in my face once about 255 00:16:33,880 --> 00:16:37,200 Speaker 1: I'd written a tongue in cheek. I thought funny. He 256 00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:39,680 Speaker 1: did not about how the Bengals were had a great 257 00:16:39,680 --> 00:16:43,320 Speaker 1: win over by last week. They overcame all the odds 258 00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:46,880 Speaker 1: and managed to beat By and Mike took exception of 259 00:16:46,960 --> 00:16:49,160 Speaker 1: that and made an example of me in the in 260 00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:53,320 Speaker 1: the locker room in Pittsburgh one time. UM. Other than that, 261 00:16:53,920 --> 00:16:57,920 Speaker 1: I athletes in general. Man, I just think if if if, 262 00:16:58,080 --> 00:17:02,960 Speaker 1: if you write honestly about them and try to talk 263 00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:06,320 Speaker 1: to them and show up after you write it, most 264 00:17:06,359 --> 00:17:10,159 Speaker 1: of most of them over the years have been okay. Football, baseball. Whoever, 265 00:17:11,320 --> 00:17:16,400 Speaker 1: How would you describe your relationship with Sam White? Mum, 266 00:17:16,640 --> 00:17:19,680 Speaker 1: For the longest time I could, I could honestly say 267 00:17:19,720 --> 00:17:22,080 Speaker 1: that Sam White was one of the few people in 268 00:17:22,160 --> 00:17:26,639 Speaker 1: the world that I didn't like. Um. When Sam was 269 00:17:26,680 --> 00:17:30,000 Speaker 1: coaching here, he tried to coach the world instead of 270 00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:33,199 Speaker 1: the football team, and I made note of that on 271 00:17:33,240 --> 00:17:35,920 Speaker 1: several occasions, and we got into it once after a 272 00:17:36,359 --> 00:17:39,600 Speaker 1: game in a press conference. He said, you can't keep 273 00:17:39,640 --> 00:17:42,000 Speaker 1: your mouth shut, and I shot back, neither can you, 274 00:17:42,280 --> 00:17:47,399 Speaker 1: And went downhill from there. In later years as I 275 00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:50,880 Speaker 1: did stuff about those teams, and I'm not sure why 276 00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:53,000 Speaker 1: I did it, what the context was, but I had 277 00:17:53,200 --> 00:17:58,439 Speaker 1: occasion to call Sam two or three times maybe in 278 00:17:58,480 --> 00:18:01,520 Speaker 1: the ten years or so over for his death and 279 00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:04,560 Speaker 1: we we we made amends, and he was great. He 280 00:18:04,600 --> 00:18:09,040 Speaker 1: had some great stories, and he was another guy that 281 00:18:09,160 --> 00:18:13,800 Speaker 1: was that was cut from different cloth. It was a 282 00:18:13,800 --> 00:18:16,720 Speaker 1: lot more social than Carl Pickens was, but they both 283 00:18:16,760 --> 00:18:21,040 Speaker 1: had their their quirks. Um. I didn't I didn't like 284 00:18:21,119 --> 00:18:25,640 Speaker 1: the fact that he made an example of Lisa Olson, 285 00:18:25,760 --> 00:18:28,000 Speaker 1: the reporter in the Bengals locker room when they had 286 00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:33,160 Speaker 1: that big controversy way back when or before that. Sam 287 00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:35,640 Speaker 1: had been okay with any female in the locker room 288 00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:37,880 Speaker 1: just about any time. There was a woman named Melanie 289 00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:40,800 Speaker 1: Houser who wrote for the Houston Post way back in 290 00:18:40,840 --> 00:18:43,320 Speaker 1: the day, and every time the Bengals would play the Oilers, 291 00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:47,359 Speaker 1: Melanie would come up to Cincinnati for the week before 292 00:18:47,359 --> 00:18:49,520 Speaker 1: the game and write stories. And Sam couldn't have been 293 00:18:49,600 --> 00:18:51,320 Speaker 1: nicer to her and made sure she got in the 294 00:18:51,359 --> 00:18:53,479 Speaker 1: locker room I was taking care of and and all 295 00:18:53,520 --> 00:18:56,160 Speaker 1: of a sudden he was anti Lisa Olson. But anyway, 296 00:18:56,440 --> 00:18:58,919 Speaker 1: nobody cares about that. Sam was a good man. Um 297 00:18:59,440 --> 00:19:04,359 Speaker 1: Like I said, his reach occasionally exceeded his grasp, and 298 00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:06,480 Speaker 1: I disagree with that. And we had some run ins, 299 00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:09,200 Speaker 1: but at the end we'd made peace, and I'm glad 300 00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:14,440 Speaker 1: about that. The nineties were rough. You coined the expression 301 00:19:14,520 --> 00:19:18,800 Speaker 1: the Lost Decade. Then Marvin Lewis arrived in two thousand 302 00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:23,720 Speaker 1: and three and turned things around pretty quickly. What's Marvin's legacy? 303 00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:32,600 Speaker 1: Marvin's legacy is of a Sisyphus who actually wins. Who 304 00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:35,880 Speaker 1: gets that damn boulder up the hill before it rolls 305 00:19:35,960 --> 00:19:40,639 Speaker 1: back down on him. I hope and I think that 306 00:19:41,080 --> 00:19:44,320 Speaker 1: people appreciate and respect the job that Marvin did here, 307 00:19:44,359 --> 00:19:49,360 Speaker 1: because without Marvin there would be no Zach Taylor. Marvin 308 00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:51,800 Speaker 1: was able to get some things done here that nobody 309 00:19:51,880 --> 00:19:55,520 Speaker 1: before him had gotten done. He was able to convince 310 00:19:55,600 --> 00:19:57,640 Speaker 1: Mike that you know, hey, I actually know what I'm 311 00:19:57,640 --> 00:20:00,439 Speaker 1: doing here. Please, you know, work with for me and 312 00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:04,320 Speaker 1: let's not butt heads. Mike, to his credit, for whatever reason, 313 00:20:05,480 --> 00:20:08,080 Speaker 1: was okay with that iman. Mike still called most of 314 00:20:08,080 --> 00:20:11,240 Speaker 1: the shots, but Marvin got some concessions. He got enough 315 00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:13,159 Speaker 1: that he was able to turn this thing around. I 316 00:20:14,080 --> 00:20:16,800 Speaker 1: give Marvin all the credit in the world. He moved 317 00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:22,480 Speaker 1: mountains here. He changing I mean turning about changing in culture. Marvin. 318 00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:25,840 Speaker 1: Marvin changed the culture, and it lagged at the end. 319 00:20:26,320 --> 00:20:30,960 Speaker 1: I think with Marvin's interest in the gig, but his 320 00:20:31,080 --> 00:20:34,560 Speaker 1: legacy should be that this is the guy that made 321 00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:39,240 Speaker 1: everything else after it possible. Paul Dougherty is our guest. 322 00:20:39,359 --> 00:20:42,240 Speaker 1: I mentioned earlier that you collaborated with Chad Johnson on 323 00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:45,119 Speaker 1: a book following the two thousand and five season. What'd 324 00:20:45,119 --> 00:20:48,919 Speaker 1: you learn from going back to his childhood haunts and 325 00:20:49,040 --> 00:20:53,040 Speaker 1: getting to know members of his inner circle. I learned 326 00:20:53,040 --> 00:20:58,800 Speaker 1: that it had to be incredibly difficult for Chad to 327 00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:04,400 Speaker 1: make his way in the world as a kid, not 328 00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:10,440 Speaker 1: knowing who his father was and having his mother essentially 329 00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:16,240 Speaker 1: leave him at her mother's doorstep his grandmother because she 330 00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:19,720 Speaker 1: couldn't deal with him and Chad. I think I don't 331 00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:23,640 Speaker 1: remember Dan, I think Chad was five. I mean, imagine 332 00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:27,520 Speaker 1: that you've never known your father and your mom decides 333 00:21:27,680 --> 00:21:30,440 Speaker 1: I'm moving to Los Angeles, Chad, but I'm not taking you. 334 00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:38,240 Speaker 1: I think that impacted every aspect of Chad's personality. Chad 335 00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:43,840 Speaker 1: had a deep desire to be loved, not just by 336 00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:49,240 Speaker 1: people close to him, by the world. I'm playing Freud 337 00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:51,760 Speaker 1: here and I don't even have a degree in psychology, 338 00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:56,360 Speaker 1: but this was a no brainer. I thought all of 339 00:21:56,400 --> 00:22:01,320 Speaker 1: what Chad did, all the things that made Chadd, were 340 00:22:01,359 --> 00:22:05,000 Speaker 1: a result of his mom dropping him off at grandmom's 341 00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:10,160 Speaker 1: and never coming back. Well, if his objective in life 342 00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:13,680 Speaker 1: was to be loved, he achieved it. I think so. 343 00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:18,480 Speaker 1: I I tired of Chad's andys. I got bored with 344 00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:20,359 Speaker 1: him more than anything else because it was the same 345 00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:24,199 Speaker 1: stuff over and over again, but interested White did it, 346 00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:30,280 Speaker 1: And yeah, I think he's a fairly be loved figure 347 00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:34,760 Speaker 1: around here and certainly, if not the best, one of 348 00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:37,200 Speaker 1: the best receivers they've ever had. And that says a lot. 349 00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:40,360 Speaker 1: The Bengals have had a lot of good receivers. There 350 00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:43,560 Speaker 1: are a lot of what ifs in Bengal's history. Greg 351 00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:47,240 Speaker 1: Cook's injury, Tim Cramri's injury, Jeremy Hill's fumble. The list 352 00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:52,520 Speaker 1: goes on and on. What if Kimo von Alhoffen never 353 00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:58,480 Speaker 1: made contact with Carson Palmer's left knee. I think they 354 00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:02,800 Speaker 1: definitely win that game, and after that it's the playoffs. 355 00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:05,840 Speaker 1: Who knows, I Mike Crystal balls have been in the 356 00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:09,000 Speaker 1: shop for thirty years and I have no idea. But 357 00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:10,960 Speaker 1: but you're right, that was a game they were going 358 00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:16,040 Speaker 1: to win. That team had the confidence that this past 359 00:23:16,119 --> 00:23:19,399 Speaker 1: year's team had. The fact that it was Pittsburgh didn't 360 00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:22,679 Speaker 1: didn't phase them. You know, that team would never have 361 00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:27,359 Speaker 1: lost in two thousand and fifteen to the Steelers the 362 00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:30,720 Speaker 1: way that team did the same as that this this 363 00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:35,200 Speaker 1: past year's Bengals team. Um, yeah, I mean the last 364 00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:38,720 Speaker 1: past Carson threw was that bomb to Chris Henry, right, correct. 365 00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:42,080 Speaker 1: I mean that was how many plays into the Bengals 366 00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:46,600 Speaker 1: offense their their game that day, I don't know, two three? Yeah. 367 00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:49,159 Speaker 1: I think they had the confidence. They knew they were 368 00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:52,000 Speaker 1: gonna win, and they would have that day had had 369 00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:55,800 Speaker 1: Carson not been hurt. Are you sympathetic to Carson Palmer 370 00:23:56,040 --> 00:24:00,200 Speaker 1: and his legacy of the Bengals? Yeah? Yes, and oh 371 00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:03,119 Speaker 1: yeah I am, because he got over on Mike and 372 00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:06,320 Speaker 1: I anybody that can do that, I don't know. His 373 00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:12,760 Speaker 1: sympathy is the right word admiration, and he had a 374 00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:16,160 Speaker 1: point and everybody took it well. It was well taken 375 00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:19,960 Speaker 1: by everybody except probably Mike on the other hand. Enough already, 376 00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:24,840 Speaker 1: I don't need to hear Carson anymore talking about how 377 00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:30,520 Speaker 1: bad the Bengals were back then. I mean, they weren't right, 378 00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:34,360 Speaker 1: and the team did things that Carson wanted. They got 379 00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:37,439 Speaker 1: him wide receivers, they had a good offensive line. You know, 380 00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:43,000 Speaker 1: I don't know what I understood Carson's beef at the time, 381 00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:45,320 Speaker 1: but at some point you just gotta let it go. 382 00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:50,360 Speaker 1: Where is Andrew Whitworth on your Mount Rushmore of athletes 383 00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:54,119 Speaker 1: that you've enjoyed talking to over the years. Oh, top 384 00:24:54,880 --> 00:25:00,119 Speaker 1: ten five three. I don't know. He was just a 385 00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:02,719 Speaker 1: a rock. I mean it was the same way with 386 00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:07,159 Speaker 1: the media that he was as a player, dependable on 387 00:25:07,359 --> 00:25:12,879 Speaker 1: a solid you know, spokesman, senior senior I want to 388 00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:17,920 Speaker 1: say senior citizen, but you know what I mean, elder statesman. Right. 389 00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:23,560 Speaker 1: I loved Andrew Whitworth. I don't know anybody who didn't. Um, 390 00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:28,360 Speaker 1: and letting him go was one of the bigger mistakes 391 00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:32,760 Speaker 1: a franchises made in the last twenty years. Did you 392 00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:35,119 Speaker 1: feel that way at the time or is it the 393 00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:40,679 Speaker 1: hindsight of the draft picks that that failed. No I. 394 00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:45,640 Speaker 1: I was pretty sure they would do what they did. Um. 395 00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:48,880 Speaker 1: It's it's always a business with the Brown family. Never 396 00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:51,440 Speaker 1: forget that. It's a business with most everybody, but especially 397 00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:56,639 Speaker 1: for them because it is their business. Um. No I. 398 00:25:56,640 --> 00:25:59,280 Speaker 1: I thought it was a bad decision because even if 399 00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:04,359 Speaker 1: he was not vintage Andrew Whitworth, he was a huge 400 00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:08,920 Speaker 1: part of that team, of the character of the culture 401 00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:14,000 Speaker 1: of that team, and to let him go like that 402 00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:17,320 Speaker 1: was going to have an impact no matter who they drafted. 403 00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:19,760 Speaker 1: As it turned out, as we know that the picks 404 00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:25,320 Speaker 1: to replace them weren't exactly. Stirling Paul Docherty is our guest. 405 00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:29,320 Speaker 1: Let's get to the current Bengals. Have your feelings about 406 00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:33,800 Speaker 1: Zach Taylor done a total one eighty over the course 407 00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:39,800 Speaker 1: of three years. Yes, yes, I'm I'm not embarrassed or 408 00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:42,639 Speaker 1: whatever to admit it. I believe it or not. I 409 00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:45,800 Speaker 1: make a mistake every once in a while. My dad 410 00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:47,800 Speaker 1: had a post in his office that I never made 411 00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:49,880 Speaker 1: a mistake in my life. I thought I did once, 412 00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:53,159 Speaker 1: but I was wrong. That's kind of how I was 413 00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:59,600 Speaker 1: with Zach. Zach came in without big credentials. Dan, you 414 00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:04,880 Speaker 1: know that he was not some hotshot NFL coordinator when 415 00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:08,000 Speaker 1: the Bengals hired him. When he was coordinating the offense 416 00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:11,159 Speaker 1: that you see, the offense that you see wasn't very good, 417 00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:15,800 Speaker 1: and I thought he was in over his head. To 418 00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:22,920 Speaker 1: his everlasting credit, he proved me wrong. And yeah, yeah, 419 00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:26,879 Speaker 1: I could not have been more wrong about Zach Taylor 420 00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:32,399 Speaker 1: than I was. He When he talked about culture in 421 00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:35,080 Speaker 1: his first year and he and into his second year, 422 00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:40,119 Speaker 1: I thought it was a cop out. I thought, I 423 00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:44,479 Speaker 1: understand the importance of culture, but it's sort of a 424 00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:47,800 Speaker 1: nebulous thing. If you have it, you have it. If 425 00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:51,000 Speaker 1: you don't, you don't. It disappears as quickly as it appears, 426 00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:54,159 Speaker 1: and you never can really pinpoint why. I mean, you 427 00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:56,080 Speaker 1: could say this guy left and that guy left and 428 00:27:56,119 --> 00:27:58,440 Speaker 1: they were a big part of what we did, but okay, 429 00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:04,240 Speaker 1: I don't know, hard to define. And him using that 430 00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:06,200 Speaker 1: fact that you know, we're not playing well right now 431 00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:10,920 Speaker 1: because I'm building a culture, buying himself time with sort 432 00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:14,240 Speaker 1: of a excuse in my book. But like I said, 433 00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:17,240 Speaker 1: he was right. He got the guys in there that 434 00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:21,600 Speaker 1: you wanted to get in there. Everybody meshed obviously, you 435 00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:25,760 Speaker 1: know all this stuff. Everybody was cool with everybody else. 436 00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:28,560 Speaker 1: They pulled for one another, they cared about one another, 437 00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:33,640 Speaker 1: all the sports cliches, and it mattered. So bravo to Zach. 438 00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:38,200 Speaker 1: It certainly helps to have Joe Burrow. Of course you 439 00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:41,680 Speaker 1: refer to him as Saint Joel. Yeah, aside from his 440 00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:45,040 Speaker 1: play on the field, what has he done for this franchise? 441 00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:50,480 Speaker 1: Legitimized it, made it, made it cool to be a Bengal. 442 00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:53,840 Speaker 1: I've written that a few times. That still makes me 443 00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:55,840 Speaker 1: laugh at having been here as long as I have. 444 00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:58,160 Speaker 1: Anybody that told me twenty years ago that it would 445 00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:01,480 Speaker 1: be cool to be a Bengal. I said, yeah, I'm 446 00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:07,920 Speaker 1: the fifth beatle Um. Yeah, and he is. Not only 447 00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:11,680 Speaker 1: not only has his play elevated everything they do, but 448 00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:16,720 Speaker 1: but his u rock solid belief in what Zach is 449 00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:21,360 Speaker 1: doing is bringing others along, including all these offensive linemen. Right. 450 00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:23,720 Speaker 1: I mean, did he rent space at the precinct that 451 00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:26,120 Speaker 1: to get all those guys there, I don't know, or 452 00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:27,760 Speaker 1: a his house at least got him to his house 453 00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:32,160 Speaker 1: and preached the good word of the Reverend Zach and 454 00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:38,600 Speaker 1: that Obviously, the results speak for themselves. They retooled the 455 00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:42,920 Speaker 1: offensive line this offseason without it didn't even seem like 456 00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:44,800 Speaker 1: they were trying that hard to do it. Not to 457 00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:47,280 Speaker 1: discredit the effort, obviously took a lot of effort, but 458 00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:52,680 Speaker 1: those guys signed so quickly and so easily, you know, okay, 459 00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:55,600 Speaker 1: all it seemed like all they were waiting for was 460 00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:58,600 Speaker 1: somebody to ask him to play for the Bengals. And again, 461 00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:00,960 Speaker 1: if you if you were around in the dark days 462 00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:04,520 Speaker 1: in the Lost decade of the nineties, saying something like 463 00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:10,480 Speaker 1: that would have you committed. So yeah, he is the 464 00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:16,280 Speaker 1: center of everything. As a sports fan, it's great when 465 00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:19,560 Speaker 1: your team is great, goes to the super Bowl, plays 466 00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:22,240 Speaker 1: in the World Series, whatever. But I've made the statement 467 00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:24,520 Speaker 1: that I don't think there's anything better as a sports 468 00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:28,760 Speaker 1: fan than when it's completely unexpected, like it was last 469 00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:31,720 Speaker 1: year for the Bengals. Was that one of the more 470 00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:38,280 Speaker 1: magical things that you've seen? Oh yeah, yeah, it's up 471 00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:45,800 Speaker 1: there with maybe the ninety Reds wire to wire. Back then, 472 00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:48,520 Speaker 1: we thought they had a decent team and we thought 473 00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:51,360 Speaker 1: that Lupinella would be a good manager. Nobody knew that 474 00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:54,440 Speaker 1: they'd go wire to wire and sweep a heavily favored 475 00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:59,800 Speaker 1: A's team in the World Series. It's it's like first love, 476 00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:03,360 Speaker 1: right Dan, It's it's you get caught up. It's new, 477 00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:06,640 Speaker 1: it's different. You get caught up in the magic, the 478 00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:10,080 Speaker 1: romance of it all. And last year certainly was was 479 00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:15,480 Speaker 1: magical and romantic, no doubt. It's probably. Yeah. If I 480 00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:17,640 Speaker 1: had a rate, um, that would be number be number one. 481 00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:20,320 Speaker 1: Where they go from four to eleven and one to 482 00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:25,480 Speaker 1: the Super Bowl. Come on, do you have a love 483 00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:33,200 Speaker 1: hate relationship with football? Yeah? Yeah, I do. I it 484 00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:38,600 Speaker 1: may be the best entertainment we have. And I'm not 485 00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:45,440 Speaker 1: just talking sports, I'm talking everything, movies, television, whatever. The 486 00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:50,720 Speaker 1: melodrama the real drama. Uh, not much on TV beats 487 00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:55,800 Speaker 1: the NFL unless it's you know, Breaking Bad or The 488 00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:59,840 Speaker 1: Wire Right I watch. I watch a lot of it. 489 00:31:59,840 --> 00:32:03,080 Speaker 1: I don't think it's as good as it used to 490 00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:07,200 Speaker 1: be for a few reasons, but it's still the best. 491 00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:10,720 Speaker 1: I don't like the NFL's hypocrisy. I don't like the 492 00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:16,120 Speaker 1: way the NFL dealt with Colin Kaepernick. I don't like 493 00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:19,040 Speaker 1: the way, in my opinion, the NFL seems to care 494 00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:22,720 Speaker 1: about things only when it feels that if it didn't care, 495 00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:28,240 Speaker 1: it would lose money. The whole image thing gets me 496 00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:30,680 Speaker 1: a little bit, but there's no denying that as an 497 00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:37,520 Speaker 1: entertainment products, it's the best thing going. Got a couple 498 00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:39,440 Speaker 1: of minutes left before I have to wrap this up. 499 00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:43,560 Speaker 1: You've had opportunities to leave over the years for various 500 00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:47,959 Speaker 1: media outlets. Why did you stay? That's a great question. 501 00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:52,280 Speaker 1: And this is gonna sound hokey and corny and whatever, 502 00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:55,160 Speaker 1: And I'm not saying it because I need to make friends, 503 00:32:55,160 --> 00:33:01,160 Speaker 1: because it doesn't matter anymore. I stayed. He stayed for 504 00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:05,680 Speaker 1: primarily family reasons. I had a chance. I had two 505 00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:10,320 Speaker 1: chances to go to the La Times in the early nineties, 506 00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:12,080 Speaker 1: and I spent a lot of time out there with 507 00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:14,960 Speaker 1: a real estate agent drive me all over Orange County. 508 00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:19,480 Speaker 1: I didn't want to raise my kids in Los Angeles. 509 00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:24,280 Speaker 1: I had no desire to to have them go to 510 00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:27,680 Speaker 1: school out there. And that's gonna sound crazy because people 511 00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:30,480 Speaker 1: think I'm some flaming liberal, which I am not, and 512 00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:35,680 Speaker 1: that's a whole nother podcast, Dan, But I didn't. I 513 00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:39,960 Speaker 1: didn't want to raise them in Los Angeles. I hate traffic. 514 00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:42,600 Speaker 1: I didn't want to get stuck in traffic my whole 515 00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:47,000 Speaker 1: freaking life. I called Bob Verdi, who was a respected 516 00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:51,800 Speaker 1: older columnist a Chicago Tribune years ago, and I asked 517 00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:54,440 Speaker 1: him should I take this job? And he said, let 518 00:33:54,520 --> 00:33:57,360 Speaker 1: me ask you something And I said, okay. He said, 519 00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:02,480 Speaker 1: are you happy where you are? Yeah? Are you making 520 00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:08,719 Speaker 1: reasonable money? Yeah? Do you get to cover almost everything 521 00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:12,440 Speaker 1: that that the quote unquote big guys in Los Angeles, 522 00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:16,880 Speaker 1: New York, Chicago cover? I said yeah. He said do 523 00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:21,200 Speaker 1: they treat you well? Yeah? Most of the time. And 524 00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:25,000 Speaker 1: he said, what's your problem? And I you know, that's 525 00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:27,520 Speaker 1: when it hit me. Along with the family stuff, that um, 526 00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:30,400 Speaker 1: the only thing that I that would have made me 527 00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:32,960 Speaker 1: want to move to Los Angeles to work for the Times. 528 00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:35,800 Speaker 1: Was ego was to say, hey, I worked for the 529 00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:39,759 Speaker 1: La Times. You don't, and that it didn't mean that 530 00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:44,120 Speaker 1: much to me, And so we decided to stay. And 531 00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:48,000 Speaker 1: what I thought back in my youth would be a 532 00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:50,400 Speaker 1: three to five year deal here when I signed on 533 00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:52,880 Speaker 1: an eighty eight, I'm still here. They can't get rid 534 00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:55,360 Speaker 1: of me, and now I get to walk away on 535 00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:57,440 Speaker 1: my own, of my own volitions. So I guess it 536 00:34:57,480 --> 00:35:00,200 Speaker 1: worked out. It sound a little like our mutual friend 537 00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:04,600 Speaker 1: Marty Brennaman. Yes, yeah, I think yeah. Marty felt the 538 00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:09,239 Speaker 1: same way, and he took far less money to hang 539 00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:10,960 Speaker 1: around with the Reds, and he could have gotten Eddie 540 00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:13,440 Speaker 1: gone to Boston, for example, they wanted to hire him. 541 00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:15,960 Speaker 1: I think Chicago the Cubs at some point had a 542 00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:21,280 Speaker 1: flirtation with Marty. But yeah, pretty much the same. Doctor 543 00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:24,879 Speaker 1: has been fun. Thank you for making me laugh, thank 544 00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:28,200 Speaker 1: you for making me think. Over the years, I think 545 00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:31,120 Speaker 1: you know what I think of your work, and we 546 00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:34,600 Speaker 1: are definitely going to miss you on a daily basis 547 00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:38,040 Speaker 1: online and on a regular basis in the Enquirer. Well, 548 00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:40,399 Speaker 1: thank you, Dan. I think you're the best I've told 549 00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:42,480 Speaker 1: you so, and I've written that as well, so I'm 550 00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:45,560 Speaker 1: glad you're not leaving either. That's going to do it 551 00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:48,160 Speaker 1: for this episode of The Bengals Booth Podcast, presented by 552 00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:52,240 Speaker 1: Ultimate Bengals. Download Ultimate Bengals ahead of the twenty twenty 553 00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:56,120 Speaker 1: two season. It's free to play next level fantasy football 554 00:35:56,520 --> 00:36:00,680 Speaker 1: with fantastic Bengals prizes. Get it now the App Store 555 00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:03,520 Speaker 1: and Google Play. And if you haven't done so already, 556 00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:06,440 Speaker 1: please subscribe to this podcast and if you have a minute, 557 00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:09,560 Speaker 1: give it a rating or share a comment that helps 558 00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:13,680 Speaker 1: more Bengals fans find us. I'm Dan Horde and thanks 559 00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:16,839 Speaker 1: for listening to The Bengals Booth Podcast