WEBVTT - The Tudor Dixon Podcast: Uncovering Waste, Fraud, & Abuse with EPA Administrator Lee Zeldin

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to the Tutor Dixon Podcast. Today we have with

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<v Speaker 1>us the administrator of the US Environmental Protection Agency, also

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<v Speaker 1>known as the EPA, Secretary, Lee Zelden, Secretary, Welcome to

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<v Speaker 1>the podcast.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, it's great to be back with you, Tutor.

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<v Speaker 1>I know where I'm so excited because this is like

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<v Speaker 1>a totally new role for you. We had you on

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<v Speaker 1>here before now, and I've worked with you throughout the campaign.

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<v Speaker 1>I saw you out there every day, and I feel

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<v Speaker 1>like every time I saw you, if I was on

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<v Speaker 1>a zoom with you, you were in the car. So you

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<v Speaker 1>definitely you definitely earned this post. I just want you

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<v Speaker 1>to know because we saw how hard working you were

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<v Speaker 1>when you were campaigning, but also just what you've done

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<v Speaker 1>since it's this entire administration just went off running. As

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<v Speaker 1>soon as they got their posts, they went out running,

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<v Speaker 1>and you came to Michigan. So tell us a little

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<v Speaker 1>bit about what that was like, because I think most

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<v Speaker 1>people know the story of Flint and the water crisis here,

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<v Speaker 1>and I think it's meaningful to the folks here in

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<v Speaker 1>the state that you came here first.

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<v Speaker 3>I wanted to get to Flint as soon as possible,

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<v Speaker 3>and last Thursday, I was in Flint and Arbor. In Flint,

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<v Speaker 3>they've been operating under an emergency order now for about

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<v Speaker 3>a decade or so, and so much has been done

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<v Speaker 3>to improve infrastructure to respond to this crisis, and it's

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<v Speaker 3>just so amazing to see how much progress has been

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<v Speaker 3>made that all of America was watching, and the residents

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<v Speaker 3>of Flint went through a lot to get to this moment.

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<v Speaker 3>And this is a point in time where we should

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<v Speaker 3>be nervous about the future as if levels of government

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<v Speaker 3>are going to disengage. It's clear that that engagement is

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<v Speaker 3>going to be staying for a very long time. The

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<v Speaker 3>federal EPA is going to be engaged in Flint for a.

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<v Speaker 2>Very long time. This moment is a moment for celebration.

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<v Speaker 3>This is a moment of a great progress and the

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<v Speaker 3>water quality is amazing right.

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<v Speaker 1>Now, and it is a time for celebration. Also, I

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<v Speaker 1>think it is meaningful to the folks there because that's

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<v Speaker 1>not typically a city that goes red. It doesn't go

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<v Speaker 1>for the Republican and I think there was some concern

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<v Speaker 1>across the country that once the President got into office

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<v Speaker 1>that he would say we're going to ignore the blue areas,

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<v Speaker 1>and this being one of the first places that you visited.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm just going to reiterate very meaningful and we here

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<v Speaker 1>in the state of Michigan are very appreciative that you

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<v Speaker 1>came out here. But I want to get into some

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<v Speaker 1>of the other things that you're doing, because you're kind

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<v Speaker 1>of on the front line of doge in what you're

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<v Speaker 1>cutting out, because there has been a massive amount of

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<v Speaker 1>waste that's gone through the EPA, and I think it's

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<v Speaker 1>kind of easy to get it through the EPA because

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<v Speaker 1>it's that feel good place where all we're doing this

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<v Speaker 1>for the environment, we're taking we're very green. So tell

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<v Speaker 1>us a little bit about what you've found.

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<v Speaker 2>Well.

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<v Speaker 3>EPA has a very important mission and we have a

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<v Speaker 3>lot of amazing people who work here who want to

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<v Speaker 3>ensure that there's clean air, land, and water for Americans

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<v Speaker 3>all across the country. And we don't just terminate as

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<v Speaker 3>you just point out your question about Flint. Doesn't matter

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<v Speaker 3>whether you're from a red state, a blue state, of

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<v Speaker 3>purple state where we're right now in Los Angeles with

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<v Speaker 3>the agency's largest wildfire response ever where in East Palestine, Ohio,

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<v Speaker 3>Western North Carolina. We just got a mission assignment in Kentucky,

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<v Speaker 3>what is important is that we do it as efficientally and.

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<v Speaker 2>Effectively as possible.

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<v Speaker 3>And when I was going through the Senate confirmation process,

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<v Speaker 3>there was a video that came out of somebody who

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<v Speaker 3>was working as a political appointee here at the EPA

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<v Speaker 3>talking about how they were throwing gold bars off the Titanic,

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<v Speaker 3>trying to get billions of dollars out the door prior

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<v Speaker 3>to inauguration day.

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<v Speaker 2>So these senators were asking.

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<v Speaker 3>Me, if you're confirmed, are you going to make it

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<v Speaker 3>a top priority to get answers as to what he's

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<v Speaker 3>talking about. I said absolutely, And as soon as I

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<v Speaker 3>was confirmed, working with my team, we set out to

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<v Speaker 3>find where the gold bars were that he was talking about,

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<v Speaker 3>and we found twenty billion dollars parked at a bank

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<v Speaker 3>just outside of government. The issue was that the second

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<v Speaker 3>half of twenty twenty four is that they had tens

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<v Speaker 3>of billions of dollars here at the EPA, and they

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<v Speaker 3>even have the ability to get it out, but they

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<v Speaker 3>wanted to get it out before inauguration, so they put

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<v Speaker 3>it at the bank. There was a financial agent agreement

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<v Speaker 3>with Treasury that was tying EPA's hands behind its back.

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<v Speaker 3>There was an account control agreement with EPA where EPA

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<v Speaker 3>was voluntary voluntarily tying its hands behind its back, and

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<v Speaker 3>a lot of self dealing and conflicts of interest. There's

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<v Speaker 3>a story that just came out earlier today where somebody

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<v Speaker 3>who was involved in the council involved responsible for putting

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<v Speaker 3>this whole package together, sends twenty million dollars.

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<v Speaker 2>To her employer.

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<v Speaker 3>There was somebody who was the director of the Greenhouse

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<v Speaker 3>Gas Reduction Fund who gave five billion dollars to his

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<v Speaker 3>former employer where he left to enter the Biden administration.

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<v Speaker 3>Ac Abrams's NGO received two billion dollars.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a brand new ngo. They had only received one

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<v Speaker 2>hundred dollars.

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<v Speaker 3>In twenty twenty three, and in twenty twenty four they

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<v Speaker 3>got two billion. So when you read the grant agreement

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<v Speaker 3>to Stacy Abrams's NGO, on page one, it gives them

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<v Speaker 3>twenty one days to distribute two billion dollars, which is

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<v Speaker 3>not the craziest part.

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<v Speaker 2>On page seven, it gives them ninety days to.

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<v Speaker 3>Complete a training called how to develop a budget. Now,

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<v Speaker 3>if you need to complete training on how to develop

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<v Speaker 3>a budget, you should be completing that training before you're

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<v Speaker 3>spending the first dollar and you certainly shouldn't be handed

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<v Speaker 3>two billion dollars up front and given three weeks to

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<v Speaker 3>distribute it. This is just the tip of the iceberg.

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<v Speaker 3>We're just scratching a surface here in this conversation. I

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<v Speaker 3>have ensured with our efforts even far beyond this, that

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<v Speaker 3>we've been able to save not just tens of millions,

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<v Speaker 3>but more with certain grants that are not going to

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<v Speaker 3>go out the door, that do not fulfill statutory obligations,

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<v Speaker 3>that do not fulfill the mission, the core mission. And

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<v Speaker 3>it's important for us to be good stewards of the

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<v Speaker 3>tax dollars. That was my pledge to Congress, that's my

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<v Speaker 3>pledge to the American public.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, so let me be clear. I want to reiterate

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<v Speaker 1>what you just said, because here are friends of Biden,

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<v Speaker 1>and that that needs to be made very clear. These

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<v Speaker 1>are friends of Biden. This is a failed gubernatorial candidate

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<v Speaker 1>in Georgia, Stacey Abrams. Failed candidate, but invited to DGA

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<v Speaker 1>events as a governor. She was invited to all of

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<v Speaker 1>the gubernatorial events like she was actually the governor. Stacy

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<v Speaker 1>Abrams was then given her organization was given two billion

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<v Speaker 1>dollars to spend in twenty one days.

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<v Speaker 2>Two billion to spend in twenty one days.

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<v Speaker 1>This is a new organization only ever received one hundred

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<v Speaker 1>dollars into the org clearly not experienced in spending tens

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<v Speaker 1>of thousands of dollars billions of dollars, let alone two

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<v Speaker 1>billion dollars. How much of our taxpayer money has been

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<v Speaker 1>thrown to the friends of the Democrats.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, you're talking about twenty billion dollars that were sent

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<v Speaker 3>to this bank outside of government. That's not the only expenditure.

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<v Speaker 3>There's also money. There's other moneies that EPA was responsible

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<v Speaker 3>for pushing out that I don't believe should have gone out.

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<v Speaker 3>There was fifty million dollars, for example, sent to the

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<v Speaker 3>Climate Justice Alliance. Climate Justice Alligance says the climate justice

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<v Speaker 3>goes through Goz, it goes through a free Palestine. There

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<v Speaker 3>are people who say who they advocate for the term

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<v Speaker 3>environmental justice, talking about how there are communities that have

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<v Speaker 3>been left behind, where there are issues that need to

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<v Speaker 3>be dealt with. I agree that there are communities in

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<v Speaker 3>America that have been left behind that have important environmental

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<v Speaker 3>issues that have to be dealt with. But the problem

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<v Speaker 3>is when in the name of environmental justice instead of

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<v Speaker 3>spending the dollar on actually remediating the environmental issue in

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<v Speaker 3>that community, we are instead sending tens of millions of

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<v Speaker 3>dollars to some group that says the climate justice.

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<v Speaker 2>Goes through a free Palestine.

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<v Speaker 3>I think Americans would want that fifty million dollars to

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<v Speaker 3>be spent. If it can be spent in the name

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<v Speaker 3>of environmental justice, it should be spent remediating issues in

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<v Speaker 3>these communities that have actually been left behind.

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<v Speaker 1>But that's what I mean about waste frauda and an abuse.

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<v Speaker 1>When you look at your organization, I mean, when you

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<v Speaker 1>look at your agency, you have the Environmental Protection Agency

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<v Speaker 1>sending money through Gaza under the guise of environmental justice,

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<v Speaker 1>but it looks a lot like money laundering.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 3>So in the case of Climate Justice Alliance, this is

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<v Speaker 3>an entity here in the US but advocating that the

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<v Speaker 3>path to climate justice goes through a free Palestine. The

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<v Speaker 3>money that went out to the twenty billion dollars that

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<v Speaker 3>we're just talking about, I believe that the funds should

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<v Speaker 3>be returned to government that EPA needs to re establish

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<v Speaker 3>oversight over this. I'll give you one other example. The

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<v Speaker 3>Clean School Bus program gave one hundred and sixty million

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<v Speaker 3>dollars to a Canadian ev school bus company. They then

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<v Speaker 3>declared bankruptcy and they still haven't delivered ninety five million

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<v Speaker 3>dollars worth of school buses to fifty five school districts.

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<v Speaker 3>The money was given up front, the twenty billion dollars

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<v Speaker 3>that we were just talking about, That money was all

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<v Speaker 3>given out upfront. I'm someone who believes that when money

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<v Speaker 3>is given out, it should be tied to performance. That

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<v Speaker 3>the school bus company makes a school bus, and then

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<v Speaker 3>you pay them for the school bus. And if something

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<v Speaker 3>with the negotiation they received some partial payments along the way,

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<v Speaker 3>then okay, we can negotiate. But the idea of giving

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<v Speaker 3>one hundred and sixty million dollars up front, what happens

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<v Speaker 3>if they declare bankruptcy and they still haven't delivered ninety

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<v Speaker 3>five million dollars worth of school buses to fifty five districts,

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<v Speaker 3>which is exactly what happened in this case.

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<v Speaker 1>But how did they declare bankruptcy with that money? That

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<v Speaker 1>money was there to ensure that wouldn't have happened. So

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<v Speaker 1>that's it completely ridiculous. And I hear what you're saying,

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<v Speaker 1>but I gotta tell you. We owned a steel foundry,

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<v Speaker 1>and nobody ever said to me, you know what, I'm

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<v Speaker 1>going to pay you upfront for the job, and I

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<v Speaker 1>hope the castings arrived. I don't know that many people

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<v Speaker 1>in manufacturing that get paid ahead of time. In fact,

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<v Speaker 1>oftentimes you have long payment terms with people like I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>oftentimes we didn't get paid for seventy five days after

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<v Speaker 1>we shipped a product. You've got to be kidding me

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<v Speaker 1>that the government is paying in advance. And I don't

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<v Speaker 1>believe the government is paying American companies like that in advance.

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<v Speaker 1>And I will just say that we had a similar

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<v Speaker 1>situation in ann Arbor where we bought we spent millions

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<v Speaker 1>on a bunch of school buses and guess what. Those

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<v Speaker 1>school buses didn't run come wintertime in Michigan, and it

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<v Speaker 1>was a disaster for the district.

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<v Speaker 2>Kids couldn't get.

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<v Speaker 1>Places, They had to go back to the gas powered buses.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, this is all, it's all total first.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and your point is absolutely right, And I'm stating

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<v Speaker 3>the same exact thing in the case of using this

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<v Speaker 3>Canadian electric vehicle school bus company as an example. That

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<v Speaker 3>is why we don't give out money. We should not

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<v Speaker 3>be giving out money upfront. It's important that it is

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<v Speaker 3>directly tied to performance and also the way that these

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<v Speaker 3>funds are overseen. If the government is saying that the

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<v Speaker 3>government of the United States is not able to distribute

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<v Speaker 3>tens of billions of dollars, what kind of logic arrives

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<v Speaker 3>at the conclusion that Stacy Abrams's organization would distribute that

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<v Speaker 3>two billion dollars better than the government can and the

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<v Speaker 3>money and listen, it was their words, not mine. They

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<v Speaker 3>were referring it to tossing gold bars off the Titanic,

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<v Speaker 3>And in that video they were also saying that they

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<v Speaker 3>were distributing the money with an eye towards getting themselves

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<v Speaker 3>jobs at the recipient NGOs. And what we're finding is

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<v Speaker 3>a lot of self dealing and conflicts of interest where

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<v Speaker 3>in fact money went to you entities where the people

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<v Speaker 3>who were involved in the process of getting the money

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<v Speaker 3>funded and distributed were benefiting from it as well. I

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<v Speaker 3>have a big problem with that, with that practice that

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<v Speaker 3>should not be allowed. And lastly, I have a problem

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<v Speaker 3>with the concept of money going outside the government and

0:12:20.280 --> 0:12:24.400
<v Speaker 3>going through pass throughs to go through other pass throughs

0:12:24.840 --> 0:12:28.120
<v Speaker 3>to eventually get to a grantee. And in this case,

0:12:28.800 --> 0:12:31.240
<v Speaker 3>once the money went through, so it's only eight primary

0:12:31.240 --> 0:12:35.439
<v Speaker 3>recipients received twenty billion dollars. The account control agreement with

0:12:35.520 --> 0:12:39.240
<v Speaker 3>EPA was only with those eight primary recipients. Once the

0:12:39.280 --> 0:12:44.199
<v Speaker 3>money passed through those eight primary recipients, EPA wasn't even

0:12:44.240 --> 0:12:46.120
<v Speaker 3>a party to the account control agreement.

0:12:46.360 --> 0:12:48.200
<v Speaker 2>And I'll give you one more point.

0:12:48.280 --> 0:12:49.960
<v Speaker 3>And I know it sounds like we're getting a little

0:12:49.960 --> 0:12:51.720
<v Speaker 3>bit in the weeds with some of the terms I'm using.

0:12:51.880 --> 0:12:54.160
<v Speaker 3>There was something in the account control agreement called a.

0:12:54.200 --> 0:12:55.960
<v Speaker 2>Notice of exclusive control.

0:12:56.200 --> 0:12:59.800
<v Speaker 3>If I send to Citybank a notice of exclusive control,

0:13:00.200 --> 0:13:03.360
<v Speaker 3>so EPA would re establish control over the funds.

0:13:04.120 --> 0:13:08.360
<v Speaker 2>It actually triggers new rights, new powers.

0:13:07.880 --> 0:13:10.480
<v Speaker 3>On the part of the grantee, where they then can

0:13:10.520 --> 0:13:13.320
<v Speaker 3>tell the bank, I want you to send my money

0:13:13.360 --> 0:13:17.040
<v Speaker 3>to this other bank. So it's not that I do

0:13:17.240 --> 0:13:19.960
<v Speaker 3>notice of exclusive control and the money is returning to

0:13:20.280 --> 0:13:22.960
<v Speaker 3>the United States government and the taxpayers. It's not even

0:13:23.000 --> 0:13:26.000
<v Speaker 3>that states at City Bank, the grantees have a new

0:13:26.040 --> 0:13:27.760
<v Speaker 3>power to move their money somewhere else.

0:13:28.320 --> 0:13:30.480
<v Speaker 2>And this is all done by design. It's crazy.

0:13:30.679 --> 0:13:33.760
<v Speaker 1>Stick around for more coming up with Administrator Lee Zelden.

0:13:33.800 --> 0:13:36.480
<v Speaker 1>But first let me tell you about my partners at IFCJ.

0:13:37.040 --> 0:13:39.400
<v Speaker 1>After more than a year of war, terror and pain

0:13:39.480 --> 0:13:42.600
<v Speaker 1>in Israel, there is still a great demand for basic

0:13:42.679 --> 0:13:47.040
<v Speaker 1>humanitarian aid. The International Fellowship of Christians and Jews has

0:13:47.080 --> 0:13:50.320
<v Speaker 1>supported and continues to support those in the Holy Land

0:13:50.480 --> 0:13:53.720
<v Speaker 1>still facing those lingering horrors of war, and those who

0:13:53.760 --> 0:13:57.199
<v Speaker 1>are in desperate need right now. Your ongoing monthly gift

0:13:57.240 --> 0:14:00.280
<v Speaker 1>of forty five dollars will provide critically needed aid to

0:14:00.360 --> 0:14:02.679
<v Speaker 1>communities in the North in the South that have been

0:14:02.720 --> 0:14:06.560
<v Speaker 1>devastated by the ongoing war. Your generous donation each month

0:14:06.679 --> 0:14:09.720
<v Speaker 1>will help deliver to those in need, including evacuees and

0:14:09.760 --> 0:14:14.559
<v Speaker 1>refugees from war torn areas, first responders and volunteers, wounded soldiers,

0:14:14.800 --> 0:14:19.320
<v Speaker 1>elderly Holocaust survivors, families who've lost everything, and so many more.

0:14:19.680 --> 0:14:22.600
<v Speaker 1>You can provide hope during a time of great uncertainty.

0:14:22.800 --> 0:14:25.120
<v Speaker 1>Give a gift to bless Israel and her people by

0:14:25.200 --> 0:14:30.640
<v Speaker 1>visiting SUPPORTIFCJ dot org. That's one word, it's SUPPORTIFCJ dot org,

0:14:30.760 --> 0:14:33.320
<v Speaker 1>or you can call it's eight eight eight four eight

0:14:33.360 --> 0:14:38.320
<v Speaker 1>eight IFCJ eight eight eight four eight eight IFCJ that's

0:14:38.400 --> 0:14:41.960
<v Speaker 1>eight eight eight four eight eight four three two five

0:14:42.240 --> 0:14:43.960
<v Speaker 1>stay tuned. We've got more after this.

0:14:47.320 --> 0:14:48.320
<v Speaker 2>It blows my mind.

0:14:48.680 --> 0:14:51.520
<v Speaker 1>I know we're at the end of our time together,

0:14:51.560 --> 0:14:52.960
<v Speaker 1>but I just want to say, I want to go

0:14:53.080 --> 0:14:56.920
<v Speaker 1>back for a second to those payment terms, paying in advance.

0:14:56.960 --> 0:14:59.800
<v Speaker 1>I mean, essentially, this must be going on across the

0:15:00.120 --> 0:15:02.920
<v Speaker 1>entire agency, because you just told us that this Stacy

0:15:02.920 --> 0:15:05.800
<v Speaker 1>Abrams organization got two billion dollars and they were told

0:15:05.840 --> 0:15:07.760
<v Speaker 1>spend it in twenty one days. You can't even build

0:15:07.760 --> 0:15:10.840
<v Speaker 1>a relationship in twenty one days. And we never had

0:15:11.200 --> 0:15:13.520
<v Speaker 1>a wee thirty day terms were really good for us

0:15:13.520 --> 0:15:15.640
<v Speaker 1>at our factory. If we got paid thirty days after

0:15:15.680 --> 0:15:19.880
<v Speaker 1>we shipped, pretty standard was sixty days twenty one days.

0:15:19.920 --> 0:15:22.160
<v Speaker 1>They had to spend it all. That means they put everything,

0:15:22.440 --> 0:15:24.800
<v Speaker 1>all their cards out before they even knew who they

0:15:24.800 --> 0:15:28.160
<v Speaker 1>were dealing with or something else very nefarious was going on.

0:15:28.600 --> 0:15:32.240
<v Speaker 2>Right, and that practice ends now. This is a new day.

0:15:32.720 --> 0:15:36.040
<v Speaker 3>We're not going to be providing these grant funds up front,

0:15:36.600 --> 0:15:38.760
<v Speaker 3>and that's one of the reforms that we have. We're

0:15:38.800 --> 0:15:41.480
<v Speaker 3>talking about this clean the Clean school Bus program as

0:15:41.520 --> 0:15:44.160
<v Speaker 3>a five billion dollar program. Four billion dollars of it's

0:15:44.160 --> 0:15:47.040
<v Speaker 3>already been distributed, but a billion of it hasn't been,

0:15:47.440 --> 0:15:51.120
<v Speaker 3>and we're not going to distribute these funds in a

0:15:51.200 --> 0:15:54.840
<v Speaker 3>way that is fronting all the money to these organizations.

0:15:54.880 --> 0:15:57.640
<v Speaker 3>And that's just one example. It's like this across the board,

0:15:57.640 --> 0:16:01.880
<v Speaker 3>and it's an important practice beyond time after we're gone

0:16:02.320 --> 0:16:04.760
<v Speaker 3>or today or the next day and some other agency.

0:16:05.200 --> 0:16:07.680
<v Speaker 1>Absolutely, everyone should be happy to hear that there are

0:16:07.720 --> 0:16:10.520
<v Speaker 1>people that are actually looking at how the taxpayer dollars

0:16:10.520 --> 0:16:13.280
<v Speaker 1>are being spent. I've said for a few weeks now,

0:16:13.320 --> 0:16:15.320
<v Speaker 1>as I've been looking at everything that's coming out with

0:16:15.400 --> 0:16:18.800
<v Speaker 1>DOJE and how we're even spending in the state of Michigan, man,

0:16:19.000 --> 0:16:21.400
<v Speaker 1>politicians are acting like this is play money, but this

0:16:21.480 --> 0:16:23.880
<v Speaker 1>is our money. So we appreciate the fact that you're

0:16:23.920 --> 0:16:26.080
<v Speaker 1>taking it seriously and you're going to make sure you're

0:16:26.080 --> 0:16:30.080
<v Speaker 1>safeguarding where our funds are going and hopefully hopefully fewer

0:16:30.160 --> 0:16:32.160
<v Speaker 1>of our funds are going to go out and the

0:16:32.200 --> 0:16:33.640
<v Speaker 1>American people get to keep more.

0:16:33.880 --> 0:16:34.240
<v Speaker 3>Amen.

0:16:34.880 --> 0:16:38.000
<v Speaker 1>Thank you so much, Secretaries Leezelden. We appreciate having you

0:16:38.040 --> 0:16:38.520
<v Speaker 1>on today.

0:16:38.960 --> 0:16:40.880
<v Speaker 2>Thank you, Tutor absolutely, and thank.

0:16:40.760 --> 0:16:43.080
<v Speaker 1>You all for joining us on the Tutor Dixon podcast.

0:16:43.120 --> 0:16:45.800
<v Speaker 1>For this podcast and others, go to the iHeartRadio, app,

0:16:45.840 --> 0:16:48.800
<v Speaker 1>Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts and join

0:16:48.880 --> 0:16:50.320
<v Speaker 1>us next time. Have a blessed day,