Speaker 1: Hi everyone, It's Sophia. Welcome to Work in Progress. Hello friends,
Speaker 1: and particularly today fellow sports fans, we have someone in
Speaker 1: the hot seat at Work in Progress today that I
Speaker 1: am so excited about. I am sitting down with ESPNS
Speaker 1: Malika Andrews. She made her debut as a sideline reporter
Speaker 1: during the twenty nineteen and twenty twenty season, and in
Speaker 1: twenty twenty one, at just twenty six years old, she
Speaker 1: became the youngest sports broadcaster to host the NBA Finals
Speaker 1: trophy ceremony. She then made history again in twenty twenty
Speaker 1: two as the first woman to ever host the NBA Draft.
Speaker 1: She's won an Outstanding Personality Emerging on Air Talent Sports Emmy.
Speaker 1: She's appeared across multiple platforms on the Disney family of networks,
Speaker 1: from GMA to Sport Center to ESPN dot com and radio,
Speaker 1: and prior to joining ESPN, she worked for both The
Speaker 1: Chicago Tribune and The New York Times. I am so
Speaker 1: jazzed to ask Malika all of my nerdy fellow journalist
Speaker 1: questions about how she studied, how she has achieved so
Speaker 1: much at such a young age, and my most pressing question, perhaps,
Speaker 1: which is can she watch basketball. Just for fun, let's
Speaker 1: dive in with Melika Andrews.
Speaker 2: Hello, Hello, how are you?
Speaker 1: I'm well, thanks?
Speaker 2: How are you? I am doing this signe? Are you
Speaker 2: from LA? Originally I'm not. I'm from northern California. I'm
Speaker 2: from Oakland. I was born and raised in Oakland. I
Speaker 2: went to boarding school in Utah, but I was raised
Speaker 2: in the Bay Area, and then I went to college
Speaker 2: and Portland moved to New York Chicago, LA. So that
Speaker 2: was my winding major metropolitan city road. I was in
Speaker 2: Portland when my little sister, who is two and a
Speaker 2: half years younger than me, called me and said, you know,
Speaker 2: there's a fun little television show I think you should watch.
Speaker 2: And that's when I was introduced. Brooke introduced us. Your
Speaker 2: character introduced us, I guess. So my first experience with
Speaker 2: you and your work was was her, and so watching
Speaker 2: you there and seeing everything that you have done and
Speaker 2: become since then has really been I told Kendra that
Speaker 2: I was going to do this today and she was like, Oh,
Speaker 2: that's so cool. That's so cool. Life kind of comes
Speaker 2: in these circles, and so I think that that's really
Speaker 2: a very cool thing for me.
Speaker 1: Oh that's so neat. Thank you so much for sharing that.
Speaker 1: And hello to Kendra. I love I love that nice
Speaker 1: little connection.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm so.
Speaker 1: Curious what was it that made you want to go
Speaker 1: into I mean journalism first and foremost, but sports journalism
Speaker 1: because my my weird winding path.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we all have a weird winding.
Speaker 1: I went to school for theater, and then the theater
Speaker 1: department felt a little restrictive for me, and I wound
Speaker 1: up studying journalism alongside theater, and that really, I think
Speaker 1: activated me as a storyteller, as an activist, as a writer.
Speaker 1: You know all these things, and I can see how
Speaker 1: it all connects now, and I wonder for you, where
Speaker 1: where did the journalism passion come from?
Speaker 2: So it's funny you say connects now because I think
Speaker 2: the things that I'm going to say about how it
Speaker 2: connected are not what I was thinking at all in
Speaker 2: the at the time. I knew at the time, I
Speaker 2: went to boarding school, and I felt like I had
Speaker 2: missed out on high school because I went to and
Speaker 2: I'm talking twenty kids going to individualized schooling where you
Speaker 2: go and you are going to school in a classroom
Speaker 2: and you work on your binder and you flip through it,
Speaker 2: and you have to take three tests a week to
Speaker 2: stay on track. And that sort of was the experience
Speaker 2: of what it was. And so when I got to college,
Speaker 2: I really I wanted to do college. I wanted to
Speaker 2: really stop missing out. And I was someone who deeply,
Speaker 2: deeply feared fomo. I deeply feared missing out. I deeply
Speaker 2: feared being left out. I deeply feared being different. And
Speaker 2: now I kind of see all of that is I
Speaker 2: was the only black girl in my class growing up
Speaker 2: except for Amina Lukeman, and you know, the education that
Speaker 2: I have, I always sort of felt like I didn't
Speaker 2: quite fit in. But I then for me, it was
Speaker 2: just this drive of I want to go to parties.
Speaker 2: I never went to prom I want to make friends
Speaker 2: because all of the friends that I had before I
Speaker 2: left for boarding school, they didn't carry through with me
Speaker 2: because I sort of just disappeared one day, didn't come back.
Speaker 2: And that feels like the end of the world when
Speaker 2: you're fourteen, fifteen, sixteen, seventeen years old. Yes, so I was.
Speaker 2: I went to college, I think with a loneliness that
Speaker 2: I was looking to fill and I was really lucky
Speaker 2: that I made a very good friend Claire Duffy in
Speaker 2: my freshman dat's class that I was terrible at, and
Speaker 2: she worked for the school paper. I always loved to write,
Speaker 2: and that writing, though, was journaling for me when I
Speaker 2: was in high school, and I'm so glad I did
Speaker 2: to be able to sort of look back and see
Speaker 2: what I was thinking at that time, because it was
Speaker 2: so different than what so many people in our country
Speaker 2: how high school looks. But I knew I wanted to write.
Speaker 2: I knew I was good at capturing feelings with written
Speaker 2: words because I had the time to go over them
Speaker 2: and probably the time to perfect them a little bit
Speaker 2: before I shared them with people. But I had no
Speaker 2: idea what I wanted that to be. I just knew.
Speaker 2: I was told I was bad at math, and so
Speaker 2: I believed that, and I felt I was good at writing,
Speaker 2: and so I kind of went with that. And because
Speaker 2: I had a friend who worked with the school paper,
Speaker 2: that's sort of the direction I went. And then at
Speaker 2: some point, I don't know if this makes any sense
Speaker 2: at all, but if I was going to be the
Speaker 2: odd one out anyway, let me be the person to
Speaker 2: decide it. And so in sports, I was so used
Speaker 2: to being the first and the only that in that space,
Speaker 2: I said, well, at least I know I'm walking to
Speaker 2: it into this as that you know, there's only one
Speaker 2: other black woman covered in basketball in the country, and
Speaker 2: it was just at the time when newsrooms were starting
Speaker 2: to see that as a problem. And it's like, well,
Speaker 2: this thing that has been a problem for me, you're
Speaker 2: telling me that that's something that now people are saying,
Speaker 2: we need this. This is an asset. I don't even
Speaker 2: know if that makes sense. That's about it. Now.
Speaker 1: Wow, there's so much I relate to and what you're saying.
Speaker 1: I went to an all girls school of fifty five
Speaker 1: girls in my graduating class. It's why I wanted to
Speaker 1: go to USC. It's why I wanted to experience Greek life,
Speaker 1: It's why I went to the games on Saturdays, the
Speaker 1: whole experience, and it was why, in a weird way,
Speaker 1: going and shooting my show was it was my first
Speaker 1: high school experience. I'd never had one.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I know.
Speaker 1: How much in my bones I feel what you're saying,
Speaker 1: the intensity of the fomo I had at that stage,
Speaker 1: at that age in my life, all of it, and
Speaker 1: I still just experienced that as a girl who didn't
Speaker 1: have what I thought was the normal experience. I wasn't
Speaker 1: experiencing it as the only black girl in my class
Speaker 1: or my boarding school or my you know, like, I
Speaker 1: know how hard it was for me to get over
Speaker 1: that loneliness, and I was still.
Speaker 2: Not as.
Speaker 1: Isolated in my identity as you're explaining. So it's like
Speaker 1: I feel it so deeply I could cry, And I'm
Speaker 1: also like, I know how hard it was for me,
Speaker 1: and it wasn't nearly as hard for me as as
Speaker 1: it was for you, and my God, like, it's it's it's.
Speaker 2: Just your you know, the loneliness that you used to experience,
Speaker 2: can you. It was only recently that I started to
Speaker 2: feel good about not even wanting to be alone, but
Speaker 2: wanting to do what I enjoy doing, which isn't necessarily
Speaker 2: the hobbies that are expected of me or the things
Speaker 2: that are expected of me, and being okay with that
Speaker 2: of being like that being something, I'm like, what are
Speaker 2: your what are your quirky hobbies? I'm dying to know
Speaker 2: for sback riding. I have been an avid a questry
Speaker 2: in my entire life, and that's another space where there's
Speaker 2: just not a lot of people who look like me
Speaker 2: that do it, and I've found pockets right, Like there's
Speaker 2: the Compton Cowboys here in Los Angeles that are really
Speaker 2: really cool and awesome, and I am not that cool
Speaker 2: and not that awesome, but horseback riding and skiing and like,
Speaker 2: that's what my family did and enjoyed doing. But I
Speaker 2: just didn't see that as a an option to live
Speaker 2: out loud without judgment, which sounds so silly. I recognized,
Speaker 2: like how silly that sounds, But that's how it felt
Speaker 2: to me, because that sport was reserved for an affluence
Speaker 2: that my family didn't have. My dad just so happened
Speaker 2: to be a ski patrolman like that. It wasn't it
Speaker 2: wasn't an There was assumptions that were made based on
Speaker 2: that that I didn't I didn't feel comfortable with because
Speaker 2: I already felt so different. And so I think that
Speaker 2: only only very recently, and still sometimes I find myself asking,
Speaker 2: you know, do people really want to know this about you?
Speaker 2: Or just because you don't post it, it doesn't mean
Speaker 2: it's not something that is a huge part of your
Speaker 2: life and existence. You know all of this stuff, of.
Speaker 1: Course, absolutely, And look, I think and we're all guilty
Speaker 1: of it right. We assume that because so much is online,
Speaker 1: so much is in our faces, that we know so
Speaker 1: much and we know so little. Oh, we have no
Speaker 1: idea what's going on in people's lives. We have no
Speaker 1: idea what people's days actually look like. You know, we
Speaker 1: just have no idea. When I think about how little
Speaker 1: the world really knows versus how full and complex and
Speaker 1: beautiful and tragic and all of the things my life is.
Speaker 1: I know that's true for all of us. But I
Speaker 1: do think it's so special when you when you start
Speaker 1: to listen to what your soul wants. And you know,
Speaker 1: it's interesting you say that because my best friend has
Speaker 1: been getting back to a barn that she rides at
Speaker 1: in Detroit, and it's something I really want to get
Speaker 1: back to doing too. And you know, very similarly to you,
Speaker 1: it comes with this sort of assumption. And you know,
Speaker 1: I didn't grow up in like a fancy riding world
Speaker 1: by any means, but I grew up for a portion
Speaker 1: of my life around horses, and the sort of like
Speaker 1: normalcy and the cowboy culture is so great is something
Speaker 1: that you know, I think it's okay to say I
Speaker 1: want to do that more than I want to do
Speaker 1: this other thing that everyone wants to do. But I
Speaker 1: know what it's like to want to do the thing
Speaker 1: everyone's doing when you haven't had it, and I certainly did.
Speaker 1: It was why I chose such a big college. It
Speaker 1: was why, you know, I think in some ways I
Speaker 1: was able to play a high school kid when I
Speaker 1: would have been graduating college because I was that naive,
Speaker 1: because I'd never heard the experience.
Speaker 2: Right, you know, when you're tapping into that that thing.
Speaker 2: And I still, you know, honestly, up until maybe in
Speaker 2: the last five to seven years, when people asked me
Speaker 2: where did you go to high school? I had to
Speaker 2: fight the instinct to want to lie because it's something
Speaker 2: that's very basic. You know, you said, where did you
Speaker 2: where'd you grow up? I grew up in Oakland, Oh.
Speaker 2: I grew up in the Barrier too. Where'd you go
Speaker 2: to high school? It's the natural next question that somebody
Speaker 2: else were speaking for community, right, no ill intent, but
Speaker 2: looking for community and something to bond over. And for me,
Speaker 2: that opened up a whole new chapter of my life
Speaker 2: that I wasn't always sure how I felt about. And
Speaker 2: when I talk about college sometimes even I went to
Speaker 2: the University of Portland. I went to the university. Why
Speaker 2: did you choose the University of Portland. I went to
Speaker 2: the University of Portland because I had class sizes of
Speaker 2: six people and I hadn't taken the SATs, and so
Speaker 2: coming off of that experience, small class sizes and something
Speaker 2: that felt like I could reassimilate and take white sizes
Speaker 2: of was really important. And when I went to the university,
Speaker 2: it was beautiful, and the professors were interesting, and all
Speaker 2: of those things existed. But I didn't even allow myself
Speaker 2: to think about what a bigger school could look like
Speaker 2: because I was scared. I was scared that I was
Speaker 2: going to be outed as someone who didn't come through
Speaker 2: the same path as everybody else, and therefore I was
Speaker 2: weird and the last thing I wanted, after being different
Speaker 2: for so long, was to be the weird girl. And
Speaker 2: so that sort of narrowed my focus very very quickly.
Speaker 2: And I am so glad that I went to UP
Speaker 2: and that I joined the school paper, and then I
Speaker 2: became a sports writer and I love what I do.
Speaker 2: But it's interesting the stories we tell ourselves and we've
Speaker 2: repeated so very often about our journey sort of just
Speaker 2: become your go to truth, and every once in a
Speaker 2: while sometimes you have to pause and maybe re examine
Speaker 2: are those the stories that have just been coming out
Speaker 2: for so long or is there something else there? And
Speaker 2: for me, it's probably a little bit about.
Speaker 1: Well and not a lot of people choose their university
Speaker 1: perhaps because they're healing from something that's true. But you're
Speaker 1: talking about your healing journey, and I think one of
Speaker 1: the things that doesn't get talked about a lot is
Speaker 1: that healing can also be really painful, and it's important
Speaker 1: and it's beautiful. I mean, my god, I've been through
Speaker 1: such a period of this in the last couple of
Speaker 1: years in my own life. And you know, I'm forty,
Speaker 1: I'm in my forties. I'm an adult, and I'm still
Speaker 1: working on things. And I I think when you when
Speaker 1: you find yourself wanting to maybe tell that bigger truth
Speaker 1: to say the things, oh, these these things I was
Speaker 1: processing at the time were influencing my decision, I think
Speaker 1: that's kind of a mark of healing. I think that's
Speaker 1: a mark of like self acceptance and a kindness to
Speaker 1: yourself and how special that this thing that you were
Speaker 1: working on processing not wanting to feel weird not wanting to,
Speaker 1: you know, jump into too big of a pool at
Speaker 1: the time, is exactly what led you to find your
Speaker 1: voice and find your writing, and find sport and find
Speaker 1: all these things. Like the thing that you that you
Speaker 1: might have looked at as a self protective decision actually
Speaker 1: opened the doors to your whole life in a way.
Speaker 2: So how cool the beautiful trips of life, right Like,
Speaker 2: that's that's sort of the things when you're lucky, and
Speaker 2: I'm I am so very lucky, you know, that's that's
Speaker 2: one of the things that that I get to have happened.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and now a word from our sponsors who make
Speaker 1: this show possible. Well, and it's crazy too to hear
Speaker 1: about some of those things and then think about where
Speaker 1: you are today. You know, the list of accolades that
Speaker 1: we can read that you know, we do in the
Speaker 1: intro for every guest who comes on the show, and
Speaker 1: it's like, I think about what I'm learning about you
Speaker 1: as a person, and then also the fact that you're
Speaker 1: a literal history maker. I mean, you're the first woman
Speaker 1: who's ever hosted the NBA Draft And if I know
Speaker 1: anything about women, you know, knocking down doors and breaking
Speaker 1: glass ceilings, it's that no one's trying to give us
Speaker 1: any power. It's always something we have to fight for.
Speaker 1: It's always something we have to, you know, be twice
Speaker 1: as good as the men to get and yet you
Speaker 1: managed to do it. You cracked it. How as the
Speaker 1: sports journalist you are today, how did you overcome whatever
Speaker 1: obstacles were like laid in the minefield in front of
Speaker 1: you to get there? What was it like to find
Speaker 1: out that you were going to do this? Because this
Speaker 1: was just in twenty twenty two, you know, it's like
Speaker 1: it's essentially yesterday.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's funny how time works. How did I do it?
Speaker 2: I stood on the shoulders of the women who came
Speaker 2: before me. I mean, truly, I find that no one
Speaker 2: is able to History is long and it's winding, and
Speaker 2: no one makes it alone. You may be the one
Speaker 2: who is the person who is the faith of the change,
Speaker 2: But it's because of Doris Burke who was able, who
Speaker 2: became the first woman to recall the NBA finals and
Speaker 2: was already on that trajectory. It's because of all of
Speaker 2: the women who had put in that work that I
Speaker 2: was then able to sort of be the beneficiary of
Speaker 2: It's also working really hard and being good. And I
Speaker 2: think that it sometimes amazes me the ease in which
Speaker 2: I love when a player tells me like they're the best,
Speaker 2: I'm the best at what I do, because it comes
Speaker 2: out with such an ease that I actually like, I genuinely,
Speaker 2: that's admirable that oftentimes in the sports world, like saying
Speaker 2: out loud, well, because I'm the best and I expect
Speaker 2: the best of me, that's something that I don't do
Speaker 2: and we as women, are not conditioned to do. But
Speaker 2: sports is Sports is about beating your chest, and sports
Speaker 2: is about who is the best, and there are winners
Speaker 2: and there are losers, and that may make some people uncomfortable,
Speaker 2: and so I always admire there was an ease in
Speaker 2: which athletes say that. Now there's a conversation to be
Speaker 2: had about when women athletes say that, you know what
Speaker 2: the response has been, which is silly, But I think
Speaker 2: that that's it. It's like, you don't, I don't. You
Speaker 2: don't do these things alone. But what was it? Like?
Speaker 2: It was really cool. I was proud of myself, you know.
Speaker 2: I think that being able to put my messes into
Speaker 2: a neat package that I could put a bow on
Speaker 2: and say here, look what I did that felt really
Speaker 2: good and to my perfectionist self who needs a reason
Speaker 2: for everything for so many years right when I was
Speaker 2: going through stuff. And by the way, this isn't I've
Speaker 2: said this before. This isn't like a before and after story. Sure,
Speaker 2: tough days, you know now, I think we all do.
Speaker 2: But I was asked so many times what's wrong? And
Speaker 2: I didn't have an answer. A lot of the time
Speaker 2: it was just like, I just feel this thing that's
Speaker 2: too big to put a name on, to be able
Speaker 2: to have a name to all of it right, to
Speaker 2: put it in a neat package of Well, I went
Speaker 2: to boarding school and I overcame these things, and here
Speaker 2: I am doing this for someone who needs things to
Speaker 2: be neat and needs things to come out right and
Speaker 2: to do the right thing that in itself felt a
Speaker 2: little bit like a bomb that then allowed me to
Speaker 2: go back and re explore some things that I hadn't already.
Speaker 1: Wow, that's really cool. So it's interesting because I mean,
Speaker 1: you're talking about processing in real time, how certain achievements
Speaker 1: in your career allow you to go back and kind
Speaker 1: of reshift how things feel in your life and in
Speaker 1: your past, which again speaks to me on such a
Speaker 1: deep level where I go, oh, now, I get that, right,
Speaker 1: I get that phase, get what I put up with
Speaker 1: at that time. I get what I was seeking at
Speaker 1: that time, whatever it might have been. You know, there
Speaker 1: is there is such an added layer of pressure in
Speaker 1: any version of a public career. So as you're processing
Speaker 1: your very personal life, you're also doing it publicly as
Speaker 1: an on air personality.
Speaker 2: How do you.
Speaker 1: How do you handle the pressure that comes with the
Speaker 1: forward facing parts of the job while you're both moving
Speaker 1: up the ranks in your career and also like reaching
Speaker 1: back for these passed versions of yourself that you're you know, reparenting,
Speaker 1: recaring for, re experiencing with, Like, how do you how
Speaker 1: do you handle all of that?
Speaker 2: Some days I don't, But cool, cool me neither.
Speaker 1: Glad it's not just me.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like some days I don't, But I know I
Speaker 2: I think that for me, it's I have therapy at
Speaker 2: seven o'clock every Monday, and it's a little bit late,
Speaker 2: and I always feel like I need but I need
Speaker 2: to make sure that I can fit it in. I
Speaker 2: don't have a neat answer to this. I'm like searching
Speaker 2: for the way to describe this and the best that
Speaker 2: I can do it is saying that every day it's
Speaker 2: kind of looks a little bit different. I'm in a
Speaker 2: really good stretch right now. I feel really lucky to
Speaker 2: get the do the job that I do with the
Speaker 2: people that I do it, particularly with everything going on
Speaker 2: in Los Angeles right now. Anytime something like that happens,
Speaker 2: it sort of recenters you on what's important. I have
Speaker 2: the most incredible support system of work, wives, of best friends,
Speaker 2: of the sweetest, kindest, funniest don't tell them I said
Speaker 2: that most supportive husband in the entire world. And like,
Speaker 2: I have this army of people that I can turn
Speaker 2: to that when I don't feel like I can, they
Speaker 2: remind me how. Yeah, and that looks a little different
Speaker 2: every day. But finding those places in between, I am
Speaker 2: I'm not the hour that I spend on TV every day.
Speaker 2: I'm sure, Like, I'm curious how this is for you,
Speaker 2: Because when people have a not only a perception of you,
Speaker 2: but also perceptions of a character you play, or maybe
Speaker 2: they don't even know, they call you the name of
Speaker 2: somebody that you've portrayed, how do you decide? I have
Speaker 2: been put into this box. I want to let people
Speaker 2: know me because I think I'm liking who I've become.
Speaker 2: But I'm almost afraid to put that version out because
Speaker 2: what if other people don't like it? Yeah, And I
Speaker 2: think that that's something that everybody sort of even more
Speaker 2: in like a social media world, has to contend with.
Speaker 2: And that's sort of what I've I've asked myself really
Speaker 2: hard questions. I've looked at the mistakes that I've made.
Speaker 2: I try to be better. Not all of that work
Speaker 2: is out loud, but it is loud in my own
Speaker 2: head and the space that I kind of take up
Speaker 2: and giving yourself permission to make those mistakes, to get
Speaker 2: back up, to have a bad day, to come back better,
Speaker 2: to say I'm sorry, to say you know what I
Speaker 2: did pretty good? Like all of those things are a
Speaker 2: radical act of self love that I didn't have in
Speaker 2: my toolbox even a couple of years ago. And I
Speaker 2: think the thing about having to look at yourself, for
Speaker 2: me having to look at myself so intensely at such
Speaker 2: a young age going to therapeutic boarding school, not just
Speaker 2: any boarding school, but being in sort of this group
Speaker 2: therapy environment, I wondered if I was the best version
Speaker 2: I could be. I did so much work on myself,
Speaker 2: and yet all of these things I still would like
Speaker 2: to improve. But maybe I just am this is as
Speaker 2: good as I'm going to get because I did all
Speaker 2: this work and I had to retune that to say, well,
Speaker 2: just because you worked really hard in like an intense
Speaker 2: environment for a concentrated amount of time doesn't mean you
Speaker 2: don't deserve to get to go back and do it again.
Speaker 2: But I was afraid going back meant that I wouldn't
Speaker 2: be able to have normalcy. So I don't even know
Speaker 2: if I answered your question. But that's the pinball machine
Speaker 2: that sort of is when I'm trying to figure all
Speaker 2: of this out. No, I totally can not trip when
Speaker 2: I do it because if you trip, people say ha ha,
Speaker 2: you tripped.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, they're waiting for you to trip.
Speaker 2: And so then I'm also trying not to be the person,
Speaker 2: and I'm trying to not be the person when somebody
Speaker 2: trips to say ha ha, like.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I think it's really important. And look,
Speaker 1: I think anyone who's been through anything knows what it
Speaker 1: is to keep up appearances while you're trying to figure
Speaker 1: out your life. I think one of the great sort
Speaker 1: of moments for me of coming to terms with trying
Speaker 1: to do everything right and being so unhappy. Was not
Speaker 1: only having the wherewithal to admit that to myself, but
Speaker 1: really I think I was saved, as you said, by
Speaker 1: my community of women, because as it was happening to me,
Speaker 1: it was happening to a bunch of friends around me.
Speaker 1: And when I realized we were all in versions of
Speaker 1: the same boat, and we were all in similar pain,
Speaker 1: and we all had made it look so good and
Speaker 1: it wasn't, it was in a weird way, it gave
Speaker 1: me permission, Like when my best friend called me. You know,
Speaker 1: my best friend who is my sister, She is my family,
Speaker 1: her son is my godson, like she is my person.
Speaker 1: And when she was like, I can't do this life
Speaker 1: I built anymore, and I was like I can't either.
Speaker 1: And then another friend called, and another friend called in,
Speaker 1: another friend called and everybody was I was like, wait
Speaker 1: a second, I'm not failing. I'm just having to admit
Speaker 1: that I'm not happy. And weirdly, the way that I
Speaker 1: wanted to love my people through their unhappiness made me
Speaker 1: realize I deserved to be loved through mine as well.
Speaker 2: But isn't it interesting when you see your stuff reflected
Speaker 2: in somebody else. Your response, anyone's response is usually compassion,
Speaker 2: but to yourself.
Speaker 1: It's judgment because you look at your own, you know,
Speaker 1: quote shortcomings, it's like, oh, I'm failing. But when a
Speaker 1: friend is in pain or a friend is struggling, you're like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, you're struggling. I'll do anything I can
Speaker 1: to help you. And so it is really interesting. And
Speaker 1: I think for me, figuring out how to help my
Speaker 1: people made me help myself.
Speaker 2: In a better way.
Speaker 1: And what it really did as well, it forced me
Speaker 1: to say, why do I care what anyone else thinks
Speaker 1: of me? All these people were cheering for me when
Speaker 1: I was miserable, And if they're not going to cheer
Speaker 1: for me getting free or getting happy, what does the
Speaker 1: cheering mean? And so I think, I don't know. I
Speaker 1: think when you have things to you heal from or process,
Speaker 1: which really we both do, and I actually think everybody does.
Speaker 1: I think we are we are fortunate. Our generation has
Speaker 1: has access to the language and the tools about mental
Speaker 1: health in ways that prior generations haven't. But it also
Speaker 1: means it's kind of our task to shift the way
Speaker 1: we live and relate to ourselves and to others, and
Speaker 1: it's a big one. I think we're really lucky to
Speaker 1: kind of all be in it together. But it is tricky,
Speaker 1: and I think it's especially tricky when your job requires
Speaker 1: public presence in public life, because you don't you don't
Speaker 1: get to take a sick day, you don't get to
Speaker 1: have a day a day off.
Speaker 2: You don't.
Speaker 1: You don't get to have a bad day. And I
Speaker 1: think maybe because so many people are worried that they're
Speaker 1: the only ones having bad days, that's where that haha
Speaker 1: comes from when people trip. Yeah, And it's the thing
Speaker 1: I think we need to ditch immediately, and before I
Speaker 1: forget to say this, because I wanted to say this
Speaker 1: to you three times in the last four minutes. I'm
Speaker 1: having an AHA moment talking to you like this, even
Speaker 1: in the ways, by the way that I perceive you
Speaker 1: and what you do, I'm going, Oh, now, I understand
Speaker 1: why you're so good at striking this balance as a
Speaker 1: journalist between covering who these athletes are and their personal
Speaker 1: stories with their performance on the court, Like duh. Of
Speaker 1: course it's because you are doing the same in your
Speaker 1: own life. And of course it.
Speaker 2: Is I appreciate you saying that it really really means
Speaker 2: the world to me. There is no compliment that I
Speaker 2: take more than when a woman I admires who's had
Speaker 2: to walk through a fire tells me that they see
Speaker 2: mine both what I the fire I've walked through and
Speaker 2: the fire that's within me Like that. There's nothing that
Speaker 2: means more to me than that. When I was listening
Speaker 2: to you talk about that kindness and how it's judgment
Speaker 2: for yourself, but a kindness towards other people. You know
Speaker 2: that phrase, treat others the way you want to be treated. Yes,
Speaker 2: I just just as you were talking, I said to myself,
Speaker 2: maybe I need to treat myself the way that I
Speaker 2: strive to treat others. Yes, Because my goodness, are we
Speaker 2: so tough on ourselves? And I do think that what's
Speaker 2: the balance between perfectionism being something that drives you and
Speaker 2: something that also is like a little bit debilitating you
Speaker 2: need to shake in order to be happy. Right, Because
Speaker 2: when I moved to Los Angeles, I told myself this
Speaker 2: story that all I had time for was work, and
Speaker 2: it requires this singular focus and it does. The athletes
Speaker 2: that I cover are the best in the world, and
Speaker 2: so I do believe that you need to match their
Speaker 2: dedication to the sport with how you cover them. That
Speaker 2: doesn't mean that you don't make mistakes. That doesn't mean
Speaker 2: that there aren't stories that twenty two year old Melika
Speaker 2: I would cover differently than thirty year old Malika. But
Speaker 2: these breaks that I had in the day, I would
Speaker 2: just sit and work and wait for games to come on,
Speaker 2: versus those two or three hours using them to do
Speaker 2: something I really enjoyed outside of work. Because I do
Speaker 2: think everything is a balance, right and balance. Like when
Speaker 2: I say balance, I don't mean work life balance, because
Speaker 2: I sort of think we need to get away from that.
Speaker 2: Everything is sacrificing at all times. There is no balance
Speaker 2: purely for women. But what I mean is finding a
Speaker 2: recipe that works for you, that allows you to be
Speaker 2: the best and happiest version of yourself at work. And
Speaker 2: so for me, those ingredients were my husband, horseback riding,
Speaker 2: and reading. That combined with work is my recipe for success.
Speaker 2: I'm not happy if I don't feel fulfilled in my
Speaker 2: job and that I feel like I'm doing my best there.
Speaker 2: But I'm also not happy when my time with my
Speaker 2: husband continues to suffer or I don't get out to
Speaker 2: the barn, or I haven't read a book this week,
Speaker 2: like there is a darn you lights, but there is
Speaker 2: they sort of like there is a there's a recipe
Speaker 2: to all of that. And I think that that's sort
Speaker 2: of what I'm I'm working to find, Like that's that's
Speaker 2: what it is, is just working to find that. And
Speaker 2: that's a lot a weakness. Like that's the other thing
Speaker 2: is like needing that I think is something that like
Speaker 2: you said, we're finally it's finally encouraged and okay, yeah,
Speaker 2: but it doesn't mean figuring it out and hard.
Speaker 1: No, it's very hard. And I mean for me, you know,
Speaker 1: growing up, I spent the entire decade of my twenties
Speaker 1: on a show. And you know, when you're filming a
Speaker 1: show and you're at work fifteen, sixteen, sometimes seventeen hours
Speaker 1: a day, you get trained to work yourself in a
Speaker 1: way that is not sustainable. And even now I have
Speaker 1: to work on getting outside, taking a break, going for
Speaker 1: a walk, like just stopping because I will do the
Speaker 1: same thing. I will sit and I will read, and
Speaker 1: I will work and work and work and work all day.
Speaker 1: And that's not really a life, and so finding you know,
Speaker 1: to your point, not the balance, but making sure that
Speaker 1: there's not just one ingredient.
Speaker 2: In the recipe is so important.
Speaker 1: And I won't tell him about all the praise we'll
Speaker 1: hire this episode from him, But and now a word
Speaker 1: from our sponsors. It's not lost on me the way
Speaker 1: you talk about your husband and the way you light
Speaker 1: up when you speak about him. It sounds like you
Speaker 1: have such a great partner.
Speaker 2: Yeah, who helps.
Speaker 1: You claim you know, your joy outside of work, who
Speaker 1: also happens to be a sports journalist, so I would
Speaker 1: imagine has a great purview into what work takes for you.
Speaker 1: How do you, guys keep your personal and professional separate
Speaker 1: or do you have like a I need to ask
Speaker 1: you a work question right now and then like put
Speaker 1: your work on, put your husband on, Like what is.
Speaker 2: How do you do it? Yeah, we definitely definitely have
Speaker 2: the I have a work question. I think that there's
Speaker 2: a definitly there's a Dave is a sports journalist, and
Speaker 2: so I think there's a baseline of understanding that comes
Speaker 2: with the irregular hours that we both have to work.
Speaker 2: And I think that that speaking the same language is very,
Speaker 2: very important, But it also can make it so that
Speaker 2: if you're not intentional, you can fall into constantly talking
Speaker 2: about basketball. Now, basketball is always on at our house
Speaker 2: because we genuinely enjoy it and we love it, and
Speaker 2: we try to be very specific about Okay, now we
Speaker 2: are going to turn this off. Okay, when he is
Speaker 2: talking on the phone to somebody that I know that
Speaker 2: is a work call for him. His sources are separate
Speaker 2: than mine, Like those are very We're very specific about
Speaker 2: making those separate. But I think whatever the common language
Speaker 2: that you have with a partner is, that's that's I
Speaker 2: think that's the secret sauce, right, Like, that's the thing
Speaker 2: that's really really important. And you know, Dave, going back
Speaker 2: to the writing piece of it, I think that's one
Speaker 2: thing that I've always best communicated, writing things down. And
Speaker 2: he is a beautiful writer. And every time he goes
Speaker 2: on a road trip, he'll leave me a note and
Speaker 2: I get to read it, and that's reminiscent for me
Speaker 2: of you know, my when I was younger, you know,
Speaker 2: that was something that my family did for each other.
Speaker 2: We would leave each other notes. And now to have
Speaker 2: that whenever he goes on a road trip, because we
Speaker 2: talk every day and we have all the you know,
Speaker 2: everyone is texting all the time now and we talk
Speaker 2: on the phone and all the stuff. But he does
Speaker 2: travel for significant portions of the of the year. I
Speaker 2: think having separate hobbies. He likes to play pickup, I
Speaker 2: like to ride horses, and then coming together with something,
Speaker 2: everything is still new to talk about at the end
Speaker 2: of the day, even if you watch the same basketball games.
Speaker 2: So he's a very very special person. He is very kind.
Speaker 2: He has more friends than anyone I know, and I
Speaker 2: think that's because so many people see how special he is.
Speaker 2: He had twelve groomsmen in our wedding. Yeah, we've made
Speaker 2: no cuts, and that was actually act we did make cuts.
Speaker 2: That was down from sixteen. He wanted sixteen and we
Speaker 2: went with twelve. So the man has a lot of friends,
Speaker 2: and I think that's because he just has this like
Speaker 2: light to him that's really wonderful. But I don't talk
Speaker 2: about him because I also want to protect if there's
Speaker 2: a protection there, and I think that sometimes folks, you
Speaker 2: can it's easy to confuse not posting something with not
Speaker 2: really and truly feeling deeply about something. So yeah, you know,
Speaker 2: I think that's what it is too. With him.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think it's so important to keep
Speaker 1: aspects of your life, for you to keep those things,
Speaker 1: you know, kind of sacred. I mean, to your point,
Speaker 1: things get so picked apart in general, it's like, how
Speaker 1: much do you really want to open for more of that?
Speaker 1: And again, even people who seem super open, like some
Speaker 1: people think I'm really private and some people think I'm
Speaker 1: really open, and I'm like, I'm.
Speaker 2: I means you're doing something right.
Speaker 1: I vacillate. Yeah, there's so much of my life you
Speaker 1: know nothing about, and I like it. And you know, listen,
Speaker 1: we're women in media, and I know this to be true.
Speaker 1: And I also know you've talked about this a little bit,
Speaker 1: that that being picked apart as a woman in these
Speaker 1: public spaces is really hard, and particularly for you to
Speaker 1: be one of the women in such a historically male
Speaker 1: dominated field. How how do you kind of protect your
Speaker 1: piece Because you protect your peace with your marriage by
Speaker 1: making sure a lot of your private life is private,
Speaker 1: how do you protect your peace with the requirement to
Speaker 1: be online and on camera. Do you have like a
Speaker 1: I don't read the comment section rule?
Speaker 2: Yeah, that is a very important role, do not I
Speaker 2: do not read the comment section. Comment sections are trash.
Speaker 2: Comment sections are closed because I you know it. Actually,
Speaker 2: I advice that I got from a colleague of mine
Speaker 2: was you have all of the people around you that
Speaker 2: can tell you to your face with the intention of
Speaker 2: helping you to be better, both when you've succeeded and
Speaker 2: both when you have left something to be desired. There
Speaker 2: are stories that I come away from that I think, wow,
Speaker 2: I really really feel and I hope that the subject
Speaker 2: felt that we did them justice, and I hope that
Speaker 2: the audience felt entertained or moved, or I really think
Speaker 2: the production staff came together and did a fantastic job there.
Speaker 2: And then there are other stories that I walk away
Speaker 2: and I think, you know what, that wasn't the right angle,
Speaker 2: That detail wasn't necessary. I'm not sure that was fair.
Speaker 2: And I try to I always I tell players, I
Speaker 2: make sure that I show up to these games. I
Speaker 2: show up when you know. Johannis and I had a
Speaker 2: conversation about this recently, where he was talking about on
Speaker 2: a podcast how he had walked out on me in
Speaker 2: a press conference, and he and I had a converence.
Speaker 2: He messaged me and apologized later, and he and I
Speaker 2: had a conversation about it, and I said, you know,
Speaker 2: I wanted to ask you a question that press conference
Speaker 2: just for you to see that I was there and
Speaker 2: I do want to show up even when things aren't peachy.
Speaker 2: And Roses and we had a really good conversation about that,
Speaker 2: the two of us. Did I know both of those
Speaker 2: things have happened, that both I have done well and
Speaker 2: both that I need to be better and that the
Speaker 2: subject deserved better. And I have the real life producers,
Speaker 2: the real life people, the real life friends, the real
Speaker 2: life family to say you crush that and girl that
Speaker 2: that no, we need to walk from that next time.
Speaker 2: What I was looking for in the comment section was
Speaker 2: for my worst fears to be echoed. If I thought
Speaker 2: I looked bad and addressed that one day didn't matter.
Speaker 2: If twenty people told me I look great, the one
Speaker 2: person who told me I didn't, I was like, I
Speaker 2: knew it. Thank you zero zero zero no pro file
Speaker 2: picture you know like that, thank you. That's what I
Speaker 2: was looking for, and that that you don't need have
Speaker 2: a circle that can echo back to you the good
Speaker 2: and put up the red flag and say you need
Speaker 2: to be better, because that's what I was looking for
Speaker 2: in those comments.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is really weird how it doesn't matter how
Speaker 1: much of it's good, it's it's the one that's bad.
Speaker 1: It's it's like the worst kind of confirmation bias a
Speaker 1: person can have, and because it's pain and it's cruelty,
Speaker 1: and it's like sometimes I'm like, what are we doing
Speaker 1: with the internet? But you know, it's also part of
Speaker 1: our job. You mentioned your you know, your kind of work,
Speaker 1: wives and your circle of women. Who do you lean
Speaker 1: on for support when you exactly when you say these
Speaker 1: things like yes, comment section closed, goodbye, we're done with you.
Speaker 1: But when you want feedback, when you want encouragement, when
Speaker 1: you want someone to give you constructive criticism, you know
Speaker 1: who do you turn to first.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm really lucky, And I've said that. I realized
Speaker 2: how many times I've said that on this podcast, But
Speaker 2: I really truly believe it. I believe when we're talking
Speaker 2: about recipes, which that's now what I'm going to say,
Speaker 2: work life balance is out. A recipe for happiness is
Speaker 2: in for my vernacular because I just don't think that
Speaker 2: balance can exist. I think that a recipe and happiness
Speaker 2: can My coordinating producer of the show is a woman,
Speaker 2: Hillary Guy and one of the main analysts on our show,
Speaker 2: Shane Boom Mackay, is also a woman. And they are
Speaker 2: my two angels. I don't have a devil. I get
Speaker 2: an angel on each shoulder that whenever there is something
Speaker 2: I know, I can turn to them. And when Gail
Speaker 2: King and Oprah for Gail's birthday, I think they were
Speaker 2: doing a podcast maybe with Melinda Gates and Oprah had
Speaker 2: said something to the effect of a friend there can't
Speaker 2: be jealousy. There just has to be this unbridled cheering
Speaker 2: and support. There can be good spirited competition, but jealousy
Speaker 2: cannot be a factor in a true and meaningful friendship.
Speaker 2: And you know, Claire and I my friend that got
Speaker 2: into the paper with me still one of my best friends.
Speaker 2: We went up for the same editor in chief job
Speaker 2: of the college paper. One of us got it, one
Speaker 2: of us didn't, and it's continued without any jealousy and
Speaker 2: just palm palms out and support system on Shane Hillary Like,
Speaker 2: I really feel like I have that. Yeah, And that's
Speaker 2: not something that's always there. I think that just like
Speaker 2: any one, there's always different circles of people who provide
Speaker 2: different things. But I'm really lucky to have that because
Speaker 2: I do think that's true. I think that there has
Speaker 2: to just be a sturdy, strong, unbridled backing. And that's
Speaker 2: that's my circle of women. I love that.
Speaker 1: And now a word from our wonderful sponsors. Do you
Speaker 1: still or can you? Or is it maybe like a
Speaker 1: like a work hat and a home hat thing? Can
Speaker 1: you watch basketball just for fun?
Speaker 2: No? I mean, da, that's not true. I can watch
Speaker 2: non NBA basketball just however, when I'm sitting in the
Speaker 2: stands and you know, a big play happens and I'm
Speaker 2: there just I'm not working, I'm sitting in the stands.
Speaker 2: I feel like I've forgotten how to clap because you
Speaker 2: can't clap on press row. And I feel like when
Speaker 2: I clap, I like move my hands like I don't
Speaker 2: because I don't clap. I don't clap at sporting events
Speaker 2: when you're on press row, you're on press prow. When
Speaker 2: I clap, I feel like I'm mashing my hands together
Speaker 2: in a way that I don't even Why can't I
Speaker 2: figure out how to clap? Like? And I overthink clapping
Speaker 2: whenever I'm sitting in a game because I can't. I'm
Speaker 2: so not used to This sounds so ridiculous. But when
Speaker 2: I go to like a musical or something, I'm totally
Speaker 2: fine clapping, But a sporting event, I'm like, these claws
Speaker 2: don't mesh together.
Speaker 1: Well, because I bet with every clap you feel like
Speaker 1: you're breaking the rules.
Speaker 2: I'm like, what am I doing here? But it's yeah,
Speaker 2: watching the NBA specifically, I will never lose the like
Speaker 2: childlike joy of seeing literal superheroes because most human beings
Speaker 2: cannot do physically what these folks do with these men
Speaker 2: and women do. But yeah, it's it's a little hard
Speaker 2: to fully remove, especially because people say, well, who are
Speaker 2: you a fan of It's like, well, I'm a fan
Speaker 2: of the people now because I know them. You root
Speaker 2: for good people, and there are the NBA is just
Speaker 2: like chok full of good guys. Wmba's chock full of
Speaker 2: Tactically like, you root for good people to succeed, and
Speaker 2: so it's always a little bit you know, there's always
Speaker 2: a winner and a loser. But it's like, dang, I
Speaker 2: like this this player. Oh man, I love that player.
Speaker 2: I didn't want to see him. So you know, that's
Speaker 2: uh what I'll work on.
Speaker 1: Mine got the w NBA Finals last year.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, we get seven, We get seven games
Speaker 2: of this beautiful, delightful, torturelessly close games, and it's going
Speaker 2: to be it's going to be incredible. My little sister
Speaker 2: covers women's basketball too, so it's sort of fun to
Speaker 2: it gets exciting.
Speaker 1: I'm a die hard Liberty fan, and god, that was
Speaker 1: that was right, a nail bier for for us. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I was. Ironically you mentioned road trips. I was on
Speaker 1: a on a drive literally the night of the last game.
Speaker 1: I planned this trip months before. There was like no
Speaker 1: way I could change the timing and we had to
Speaker 1: use my hot spot and like get online to watch,
Speaker 1: you know, And it was just so stressful but so exciting.
Speaker 1: And there was a moment where, you know, out in
Speaker 1: the middle of nowhere in the desert, I was like,
Speaker 1: this is commitment, Like we've got this game on, like
Speaker 1: pulled over on a highway. That's because there is no
Speaker 1: missing it.
Speaker 2: And it was.
Speaker 1: It was very funny to me, It was. It was
Speaker 1: a fun time.
Speaker 2: I love that. That's the best kind of There's so
Speaker 2: few things in the world though, to walk into an arena,
Speaker 2: to look around to see grown ups screaming their heads off,
Speaker 2: jumping up and down. Nowhere else and no other sector
Speaker 2: of life do you get that than in sports. And
Speaker 2: so that's kind of what's so cool is it just
Speaker 2: brings this joy for people. That's what sports is in
Speaker 2: it's best. That's what I love about it. There is
Speaker 2: nothing like a playoff game. There is nothing like a
Speaker 2: finals game. Yeah, there's nothing like a Game seven where
Speaker 2: it's all on the line down to one thing, or
Speaker 2: a game five. There's nothing like it. There's nothing like it.
Speaker 2: It's the coolest thing in the world. And you know,
Speaker 2: to be able to to not to sound cheesy, but
Speaker 2: like every time. I remember one time I walked onto set.
Speaker 2: I've grown up on ESPN. Right, I came to ESPN,
Speaker 2: I was anyone, maybe barely twenty two, wow, And I
Speaker 2: started as a writer. I worked my way up as
Speaker 2: a writer. I covered the coronavirus. I eventually was given
Speaker 2: MBA today. And I remember walking to the studio one
Speaker 2: day because I forgot my laptop charger because I forget
Speaker 2: my laptop charger every day, and all the lights were
Speaker 2: out and it's this huge studio and you know, television
Speaker 2: sets is these massive pieces of awesome equipment, and we're
Speaker 2: the only show that comes out of our studio, Studio
Speaker 2: H in Los Angeles, and I remember walking in it's quiet,
Speaker 2: and the desk looks really little at the center of
Speaker 2: this enormous studio and thinking, oh my goodness, every single
Speaker 2: every piece of equipment, this desk, this chair, all of
Speaker 2: this is for me. It's for us, It's for the
Speaker 2: show that we create and the producers and everyone. But yeah,
Speaker 2: little me, that that girl that didn't feel like she
Speaker 2: belonged or wasn't sure where things were going or if
Speaker 2: she was good enough to have in that moment of quiet, like,
Speaker 2: oh wow, this is for me, which is such a
Speaker 2: responsibility and also so much fun. It was just a
Speaker 2: very very cool thing to be reminded of. I think
Speaker 2: sometimes we just remind ourselves of that when you walk
Speaker 2: into a place and you say, yo, yeah, this is
Speaker 2: for me and because of the work I did to set.
Speaker 1: It up and set myself up, and yeah, you get
Speaker 1: to remind yourself that you've arrived in a place that
Speaker 1: used to be a dream.
Speaker 2: You know, when you hear the you know, remember when
Speaker 2: you dreamed about what you have now. I think that's very,
Speaker 2: very true and I try to ground myself at constantly
Speaker 2: because it's so easy to look toward the next or
Speaker 2: tomorrow or the what abouts. But I think if you
Speaker 2: can just sit in that for a little bit, it's
Speaker 2: it's pretty cool. It's it's pretty cool. At leads me
Speaker 2: to get to talk to you.
Speaker 1: It's amazing from this place, from from sitting in that
Speaker 1: place where you get to really let it land and
Speaker 1: feel that kind of joy. What what feels like? You're
Speaker 1: work in progress this year? What's ahead?
Speaker 2: That's a good question. I am really content with continuing
Speaker 2: to sort of get better at what I'm doing. I
Speaker 2: really am excited about hosting the NBA Finals, which is
Speaker 2: something that just like, I get a little bit giggly
Speaker 2: even just saying that, I'm really really excited for hosting
Speaker 2: the NBA Finals and the Draft back to back. That
Speaker 2: just feels like it goes from the pinnacle of sport
Speaker 2: to literally getting to capture people's childhood dreams coming true
Speaker 2: and achieving generational wealth and upward mobility for a lot
Speaker 2: of families that otherwise wouldn't be able to like that
Speaker 2: to me is like the coolest month of my year,
Speaker 2: and I really am looking forward to getting to do that.
Speaker 2: Last year was the first year that I was sitting
Speaker 2: in that seat, and so I'm really looking forward to
Speaker 2: doing what I hope is an even better job this year.
Speaker 2: That's something I really look forward to.
Speaker 1: Oh that's so exciting.
Speaker 2: Congratulations, Thank you. I appreciate that.
Speaker 1: And thank you for today. It's really just been such
Speaker 1: an absolute pleasure. I've loved learning even more about your
Speaker 1: story than what I got to read about of our interview.
Speaker 2: Well, thank you. I appreciate you making the time and
Speaker 2: the space. And I would I would do the little
Speaker 2: hole the finger thing if I yeah, I love it.
Speaker 1: Well, we'll have to go like get a bite to
Speaker 1: eat and hang with your sister or something soon. It
Speaker 1: would be so fun.
Speaker 2: Yes, I would love to. I would love to. I
Speaker 2: would love to. And if you're if your friend in
Speaker 2: Detroit is never this way and needs horses, ride, oh
Speaker 2: my god, I have got grace.
Speaker 1: We will take you up on it.
Speaker 2: Charlie is my horse is okay? So he's I thought
Speaker 2: my husband date thought it would be funny to name
Speaker 2: a horse horse tracks. Yeah, so we went.
Speaker 1: Great, he's got dad jokes we love.
Speaker 2: But yeah, awesome, Thank you so much, Thank.
Speaker 1: You have an amazing rest of your day.
Speaker 2: Beautiful to your day. Bye bye ye m m m
Speaker 2: hm