WEBVTT - Digital Immortality, Part Two 0:00:04.280 --> 0:00:07.840 Get in touch with technology with tech stuff from housetk 0:00:07.920 --> 0:00:15.280 dot com. Hey, they're in Welcome to tex Staff. I'm 0:00:15.360 --> 0:00:18.640 Jonathan Scripland. And if you listen to the previous episode, 0:00:18.960 --> 0:00:22.799 you heard Josh Bark join me to talk about digital immortality. 0:00:23.239 --> 0:00:26.720 Our conversation became epic, and so now I bring to 0:00:26.760 --> 0:00:30.280 you part two of digital immortality, and let's rejoin the 0:00:30.280 --> 0:00:41.159 conversation between myself and Josh Clark. The bigger question, and 0:00:41.240 --> 0:00:43.920 this is something that like gets left out of all 0:00:44.000 --> 0:00:48.159 of this stuff, is if you say you could conceivably 0:00:48.320 --> 0:00:52.880 create a really a great simulation of an individual person's brain, 0:00:53.440 --> 0:00:57.160 and it started making connections and it became a better 0:00:57.360 --> 0:01:03.320 version of the organic brain, that's a separate thing. How 0:01:03.440 --> 0:01:05.880 is it connected to the organic brain so that you 0:01:05.920 --> 0:01:09.520 don't just have the experience of the organic brain and 0:01:09.520 --> 0:01:12.520 the experience of the AI brain, right, How are they 0:01:12.560 --> 0:01:15.600 connected to that they're sharing experience because without that connection, 0:01:15.880 --> 0:01:19.360 without that shared experience, you have, for all intents and purposes, 0:01:19.560 --> 0:01:23.520 two separate individuals. It's bringing them together so that we 0:01:23.600 --> 0:01:29.520 really are translated into a digital version of ourselves. That 0:01:29.520 --> 0:01:33.520 that is this this step that guys like curse while 0:01:33.600 --> 0:01:37.800 and everybody else is talking about this just completely walk past. Well, yeah, 0:01:37.800 --> 0:01:41.399 the the I mean, if you nailed them down and said, 0:01:41.400 --> 0:01:44.240 can you explain this? I think the explaination would get 0:01:44.240 --> 0:01:46.200 would be kind of a non explanation, which is that 0:01:46.959 --> 0:01:50.480 at the time you reach the sophistication, the technological sophistication 0:01:50.720 --> 0:01:54.080 capable of simulating a brain to the extent that it 0:01:54.160 --> 0:01:56.400 would be useful in this way, we would have a 0:01:56.440 --> 0:02:01.240 brain computer interface that would allow for the bidirect sational communication. 0:02:01.960 --> 0:02:04.000 I realized that you do not curse on this show. 0:02:04.040 --> 0:02:08.560 We don't curse on my show either. Yes, yeah, that's 0:02:08.560 --> 0:02:13.720 what they call Strickland magical thinking, I would argue. And 0:02:13.760 --> 0:02:16.160 I realized, I certainly can't go so far as to 0:02:16.520 --> 0:02:18.160 I wouldn't go so far as to call it magical 0:02:18.160 --> 0:02:21.760 thinking in the sense that we have brain computer interfaces now, 0:02:22.560 --> 0:02:26.120 they're just very primitive. So the question is, could we 0:02:26.160 --> 0:02:29.200 get to a level of sophistication where it was where 0:02:29.200 --> 0:02:33.120 we shared consciousness, that's what we're talking about here, And 0:02:33.120 --> 0:02:36.640 and I realized that it would it would be a 0:02:37.440 --> 0:02:41.320 disadvantage of humanity to nail down the futurists and be like, no, no, no, 0:02:41.680 --> 0:02:44.560 don't you dare make a prediction unless you can exactly 0:02:45.360 --> 0:02:47.760 lay out how it's going to happen. That's not what 0:02:47.800 --> 0:02:51.760 they do. So I don't necessarily have a problem with futurists. 0:02:52.000 --> 0:02:53.960 I have a problem with the people who write about 0:02:53.960 --> 0:02:59.040 what futurists are saying, as if it's going to happen regardless, 0:02:59.120 --> 0:03:03.200 because there's there here's one. This drives me crazy. It 0:03:03.280 --> 0:03:05.960 was a kurtswild prediction, just a random stuff. Like everything 0:03:06.040 --> 0:03:09.000 that guy says gets pressed right and understandably. So it's 0:03:09.000 --> 0:03:11.960 an interesting dude, and he has interesting thoughts and interesting visions. 0:03:13.040 --> 0:03:17.720 But he said recently that um by humans will be cyborgs. 0:03:18.000 --> 0:03:20.000 Our brains will be jacked into the Internet, will be 0:03:20.000 --> 0:03:23.680 able to say, we want to think about Wikipedia page, 0:03:23.880 --> 0:03:25.560 we will be there. It will be in our minds 0:03:25.600 --> 0:03:28.440 that Wikipedia page. We will have that level of brain 0:03:28.520 --> 0:03:34.440 computer interface that we are the sum total of human knowledge. Yes, well, 0:03:34.560 --> 0:03:36.960 somebody did try to nail him down, or he he 0:03:37.160 --> 0:03:39.440 volunteered it in this talk, whatever it was. I just 0:03:39.440 --> 0:03:42.280 read an article on it um and he says that 0:03:42.560 --> 0:03:47.760 there's going to be DNA based nano robots that will 0:03:47.960 --> 0:03:52.280 basically enter our core texas and connect us to um 0:03:52.520 --> 0:03:56.880 a an artificial cortex that the Internet is based on. 0:03:57.360 --> 0:03:59.720 That that's how it will happen. It's like, well, that 0:03:59.880 --> 0:04:05.640 is really neat and dandy. How how if you put something, 0:04:05.680 --> 0:04:07.640 if you say that something's gonna happen fifteen years out, 0:04:08.520 --> 0:04:13.640 just just saying well, DNA nanobots, that's how Like that's 0:04:13.640 --> 0:04:16.120 at the same level as as taking a human brain 0:04:16.200 --> 0:04:20.240 now and plugging it into a USB cable and expecting 0:04:20.320 --> 0:04:22.839 something to happen. I would I would totally agree with 0:04:22.839 --> 0:04:26.960 you on that, absolutely agree with you on that because 0:04:27.160 --> 0:04:30.159 uh and and knowing what Here's another problem is that 0:04:30.200 --> 0:04:34.760 we've got people who are very brilliant. There there clearly 0:04:35.000 --> 0:04:39.280 intelligent people. However, you know they're intelligent and focused on 0:04:39.440 --> 0:04:44.840 specific parts of general knowledge and don't necessarily possess other 0:04:44.960 --> 0:04:48.240 elements of knowledge that would be really important to have 0:04:48.400 --> 0:04:53.480 before you make definitive statements and predictions, Like neuroscientists will 0:04:53.520 --> 0:04:57.000 often say things that you know, the physicists may say 0:04:57.000 --> 0:05:00.160 one thing, but neuroscientists believe another thing, Like is just 0:05:00.279 --> 0:05:03.479 to say maybe there are some quantum effects going on 0:05:03.520 --> 0:05:07.960 in the brain, and neuroscientists saying that's not really what 0:05:08.000 --> 0:05:11.479 we think is happening, and because there's so much we 0:05:11.560 --> 0:05:14.119 do not know, making any sort of prediction of something 0:05:14.160 --> 0:05:16.080 that is definitely going to happen when you say it's 0:05:16.080 --> 0:05:19.000 definitely gonna happen is kind of foolish. You know, it's 0:05:19.080 --> 0:05:22.360 it's it again, probably falls under the category of wishful thinking, 0:05:22.640 --> 0:05:26.640 particularly in the case with Kurtswild, who again, brilliant guy. 0:05:26.680 --> 0:05:29.719 But I agree with you. I think I think trying 0:05:29.760 --> 0:05:34.040 to explain say it nanobots, it's almost akin to saying magic. Yes, 0:05:34.400 --> 0:05:37.320 it's the exact same thing, especially since right now, as 0:05:37.360 --> 0:05:42.200 far as we know, nanobots are probably well beyond our 0:05:42.240 --> 0:05:46.760 ability to make on any kind of truly sophisticated level, 0:05:46.920 --> 0:05:49.680 like the nanotechnology we talk about today. We're talking about 0:05:49.760 --> 0:05:54.360 nanoparticles that you can guide externally through stuff like ultrasonic 0:05:54.400 --> 0:05:59.039 frequencies or magnetic fields. But they're not robots, like they're 0:05:59.040 --> 0:06:03.279 not auton missed or even remote controlled items that can 0:06:03.320 --> 0:06:04.520 go to where you want them to go and do 0:06:04.560 --> 0:06:07.280 what you want them to do. That level of sophistication, 0:06:07.320 --> 0:06:10.320 I think is well beyond fifteen years out. I can't 0:06:10.360 --> 0:06:12.919 imagine us getting there. And also I think another issue 0:06:12.920 --> 0:06:16.040 I have is that a lot of these futurists based 0:06:16.080 --> 0:06:20.159 their assumptions on things like Moore's law. And I could 0:06:20.240 --> 0:06:24.520 hug you right now, man, Yes, you can't base any 0:06:24.720 --> 0:06:29.600 sort of arrogant prediction on Moore's law. It has as 0:06:29.720 --> 0:06:34.000 much veracity as Murphy's law. Yeah, man, I'm so More's 0:06:34.080 --> 0:06:37.240 law was originally just an observation. It wasn't and it 0:06:37.279 --> 0:06:43.559 was for a decade. Yeah, you got Gordon Moore who said, 0:06:44.040 --> 0:06:46.599 it looks like every two years what we're going to 0:06:46.640 --> 0:06:51.680 reach is the uh, the sophistication and the economic condition 0:06:51.880 --> 0:06:55.719 where it will be possible to half the size of transistors, 0:06:55.720 --> 0:06:58.640 double the number of transistors on a square inch of silicon. 0:06:59.120 --> 0:07:01.400 And how you how you put that is whether you're 0:07:01.440 --> 0:07:03.599 a glass is half full or half empty kind of person. 0:07:04.279 --> 0:07:07.200 But and he was looking at it as saying, you know, 0:07:07.200 --> 0:07:10.080 it's not just the technological sophistication. It's also the fact 0:07:10.120 --> 0:07:14.760 that our our manufacturing ability will reach a point where 0:07:14.760 --> 0:07:17.920 it makes sense to do it. And it was never 0:07:17.960 --> 0:07:21.200 meant to be something that would exist in perpetuity. It 0:07:21.320 --> 0:07:23.800 was meant that, I like, at least for the foreseeable future, 0:07:23.920 --> 0:07:25.960 this is going to continue until we run up to 0:07:26.120 --> 0:07:29.760 some sort of fundamental block, and we're getting real close 0:07:29.800 --> 0:07:32.360 to that fundamental block now. In fact, a lot of engineers, 0:07:32.920 --> 0:07:36.360 uh including More, have said that this is this is 0:07:36.920 --> 0:07:39.840 the days of Moore's law are close to an end. 0:07:40.080 --> 0:07:42.600 But they have been saying that for a very long time. 0:07:42.680 --> 0:07:44.640 Now they have and when part of the reason that 0:07:44.720 --> 0:07:48.120 they've been able to to push it off is that 0:07:48.480 --> 0:07:51.320 we've kind of redefined More's laws. No longer the number 0:07:51.360 --> 0:07:54.480 of transistors. Now we sort of understand it as the 0:07:54.640 --> 0:07:58.400 processing power of a chip tends to double every two years, 0:07:58.640 --> 0:08:02.600 which you can do both with architecture and with the 0:08:03.240 --> 0:08:07.360 optimization of that architecture. So that's kind of what Intel does. 0:08:07.360 --> 0:08:10.240 They'll they'll do things well, they'll shrink down elements in 0:08:10.400 --> 0:08:12.880 one move, and then the next move they figure out 0:08:12.920 --> 0:08:16.760 how the what's the best architecture for those elements to 0:08:16.880 --> 0:08:19.680 take the best advantage of what they've done. So it's 0:08:19.680 --> 0:08:22.520 a tick they called the TikTok approach. The tick is 0:08:22.560 --> 0:08:24.560 where they shrink everything down, the talk is where they 0:08:24.560 --> 0:08:26.800 optimize it, and then the next tick they shrink stuff 0:08:26.840 --> 0:08:30.400 down again. Talk they optimize it. Yeah, so it helps 0:08:30.400 --> 0:08:33.080 extend More's law because they don't always have to get 0:08:33.400 --> 0:08:36.240 smaller and smaller, and once you get to a certain size, 0:08:36.640 --> 0:08:39.840 you run into quantum effects that totally ruin the way 0:08:39.880 --> 0:08:42.760 electronics work. So the reason why we're even bringing this 0:08:42.880 --> 0:08:47.559 up is that you cannot count on the technological sophistication 0:08:47.600 --> 0:08:50.280 to continue at the same rate it has been going. No, 0:08:50.600 --> 0:08:53.800 but these guys who are all about digital immortality are 0:08:53.840 --> 0:08:56.520 basing all of their assumptions on the idea that Moore's 0:08:56.559 --> 0:08:58.560 law will keep going like this. Yeah. Well, and not 0:08:58.559 --> 0:09:02.640 only that, they're they're applying the same sort of idea 0:09:02.679 --> 0:09:06.560 of Moore's law to other disciplines, and they're treating it 0:09:06.640 --> 0:09:10.120 as if it is an actual scientific law, and they're 0:09:10.280 --> 0:09:12.840 they're kind of banding it about as if it is 0:09:12.920 --> 0:09:16.240 and as if it proves that their predictions will come true, 0:09:16.720 --> 0:09:20.120 which I mean, like, I love Moore's law, but I 0:09:20.120 --> 0:09:21.839 would feel a lot better about it if it was 0:09:21.920 --> 0:09:25.280 called like Moore's really good idea or just or just 0:09:25.480 --> 0:09:28.960 the general observation of more, you know, because it really again, 0:09:29.000 --> 0:09:31.840 it was an observation and then a prediction based on 0:09:31.880 --> 0:09:35.280 that observation. But it was it wasn't Gordon More who 0:09:35.320 --> 0:09:39.240 called it Moore's law. He doesn't. No, he didn't care 0:09:39.280 --> 0:09:41.760 for that. He was like, let's not called the law, guys, 0:09:42.200 --> 0:09:45.200 it's too late. Um well, that's That's one of the 0:09:45.240 --> 0:09:48.880 big things is that if Moore's law doesn't hold true, 0:09:48.880 --> 0:09:51.319 then this sets everything back. And if Moore's law, and 0:09:51.520 --> 0:09:54.000 since you can't apply More's law to things like neuroscience, 0:09:54.320 --> 0:09:59.160 the discoveries and neuroscience happened on a totally different time scale. Yeah, 0:09:59.360 --> 0:10:02.439 like inspiration doesn't happen on any kind of plotted charge. 0:10:02.600 --> 0:10:05.400 So that that's another thing to keep in mind is 0:10:05.480 --> 0:10:10.959 that maybe their predictions are sort of accurate, but not 0:10:11.040 --> 0:10:14.120 for the time scale. It maybe that it's much further 0:10:14.200 --> 0:10:17.040 out than what they anticipate. In fact, I would be 0:10:17.520 --> 0:10:21.560 shocked if that's not the case, based upon what little 0:10:21.640 --> 0:10:26.080 I know about these other disciplines. Okay, well, let's let's 0:10:26.120 --> 0:10:28.280 go ahead and just say, Josh, just for the sake 0:10:28.280 --> 0:10:32.640 of argument, let's say that this world does come about 0:10:32.720 --> 0:10:37.679 where digital immortality is possible. It's a thing, we can 0:10:37.720 --> 0:10:42.559 do it. The trouble doesn't stop there. There's some other 0:10:42.600 --> 0:10:47.640 big issues happening. So now can you imagine a world 0:10:48.160 --> 0:10:52.560 where there is now an option for you to move 0:10:52.640 --> 0:10:57.000 yourself over into a digital immortality phase. Maybe it doesn't 0:10:57.000 --> 0:10:59.960 even involve leaving your body. Maybe it involves getting an implant, 0:11:00.559 --> 0:11:03.200 and then that takes over and your body will live 0:11:03.720 --> 0:11:05.720 for as long as it can. And then after that 0:11:05.840 --> 0:11:10.200 you could even port that intelligence, which is you, into 0:11:10.320 --> 0:11:13.439 some other body, whether it's a robot or maybe even 0:11:13.800 --> 0:11:16.040 sort of free form where you could flow into all 0:11:16.080 --> 0:11:18.720 sorts of different electronics. I even saw one suggestion saying, like, 0:11:18.800 --> 0:11:21.800 in this science fiction future, you could get behind the 0:11:21.800 --> 0:11:24.280 wheel of a car, but you don't really get behind 0:11:24.280 --> 0:11:26.320 the wheel of a car. You become the car, like 0:11:26.360 --> 0:11:29.280 that sort of stuff. All right, do you imagine that 0:11:29.280 --> 0:11:32.720 that would be available to everybody day one? Yeah? Yeah, 0:11:32.760 --> 0:11:34.679 And you make a good point in this article. It's 0:11:34.760 --> 0:11:40.040 like talk about some sort of disparity and experience here 0:11:40.080 --> 0:11:42.360 on Earth between the halves and they have not Yeah, 0:11:42.400 --> 0:11:45.920 and the halves and you talk about the huge gap 0:11:46.000 --> 0:11:49.760 and haves and have nots that already exists. Imagine a 0:11:49.840 --> 0:11:52.000 world where not only is that gap there, but it's 0:11:52.040 --> 0:11:54.760 exacerbated by the fact that now the halves live forever. Yeah. 0:11:54.760 --> 0:11:57.439 I think about the grumbling that people have every time 0:11:57.520 --> 0:11:59.680 Dick Cheney gets a new heart and gets to live 0:11:59.720 --> 0:12:02.680 like an extra like ten twenty years. That's just a 0:12:02.760 --> 0:12:05.960 new heart. Like imagine if people like that, or anybody 0:12:06.000 --> 0:12:10.440 who's wealthy, was able to become immortal and it was 0:12:10.520 --> 0:12:13.520 only available to them because it was so prohibitively expensive, 0:12:13.840 --> 0:12:16.760 as I think you rightly point out, would definitely be 0:12:16.800 --> 0:12:20.000 the case at first. And you know, not to get 0:12:20.000 --> 0:12:23.319 too political, but I would imagine that this would be 0:12:23.360 --> 0:12:27.280 a world where you would see an even stronger push 0:12:27.600 --> 0:12:32.040 towards protecting the status of those who have things, because 0:12:32.080 --> 0:12:36.160 now they're in it forever. Right. It's it's not even 0:12:36.280 --> 0:12:39.080 I want this protected for as long as I live now, 0:12:39.120 --> 0:12:43.600 it's I want this to be protected forever um. You 0:12:43.640 --> 0:12:47.240 could also make the argument that maybe that would mean 0:12:47.559 --> 0:12:51.120 those people would also become way more interested in taking 0:12:51.160 --> 0:12:53.560 better care of the planet because they're going to be 0:12:53.600 --> 0:12:55.720 there forever. I think it would be one of the 0:12:55.720 --> 0:12:58.319 benefits of this is that it would extend long term 0:12:58.320 --> 0:13:02.880 thinking about about the future of humanity, the future of Earth. 0:13:02.920 --> 0:13:05.240 That I think that would just be an inevitable byproduct 0:13:05.240 --> 0:13:07.920 of Yeah, because you're going to experience it if you're 0:13:07.920 --> 0:13:10.440 in that if you're in that elite, then you are 0:13:10.480 --> 0:13:13.240 going to experience that. So therefore it does benefit you 0:13:13.320 --> 0:13:15.440 to think about these things. You can't just focus on 0:13:15.480 --> 0:13:17.520 the short term gain anymore. Now It's like I'm going 0:13:17.559 --> 0:13:21.800 to years, who cares about anything? After that, I'll be dead? 0:13:21.840 --> 0:13:26.079 Who cares? Yeah? Yeah? And and like for me, I'm like, well, 0:13:26.080 --> 0:13:27.959 I don't have kids, so I don't even have that 0:13:28.520 --> 0:13:33.640 about You barely care about this moment. Honestly, I stopped 0:13:33.640 --> 0:13:36.600 caring about five minutes into this episode. But no, it's 0:13:36.640 --> 0:13:38.920 just kidding. But yeah, that's That's one of those things, 0:13:38.960 --> 0:13:41.880 is that we're talking about a potential divide, not just 0:13:42.120 --> 0:13:45.000 in uh in the haves and have nots as far 0:13:45.040 --> 0:13:47.720 as like a single country. But let's say that this 0:13:47.800 --> 0:13:50.920 technology is developed in one part of the world that 0:13:51.040 --> 0:13:53.560 immediately is going to cause issues too, because you've got 0:13:53.640 --> 0:13:56.760 the rest of the world nobody wants to to I 0:13:56.760 --> 0:13:58.680 think it's pretty safe to say that most people don't 0:13:58.679 --> 0:14:01.920 want to die. Most people like the idea of being 0:14:01.960 --> 0:14:04.959 able to at least live as long as they want 0:14:05.000 --> 0:14:08.360 to live, right, Like, they get the option to say, 0:14:08.400 --> 0:14:11.280 maybe maybe eternity is not what I really want, but 0:14:11.320 --> 0:14:14.079 I would like the opportunity to live as long as 0:14:14.120 --> 0:14:19.560 I I want to live before deciding to no longer live, right, Like, 0:14:19.640 --> 0:14:21.360 even that could be a case. It could be that 0:14:21.560 --> 0:14:24.040 when we talk about immortality, we're really just talking about 0:14:24.600 --> 0:14:27.440 you get to decide when you go. Well, you know, 0:14:27.480 --> 0:14:30.200 I read an interesting article about that that's saying like, 0:14:30.320 --> 0:14:32.480 if we are going to do this, don't forget to 0:14:32.520 --> 0:14:36.280 also include some sort of suicide switch. Because if you 0:14:36.400 --> 0:14:40.120 become digitally immortal and you have no way of ceasing 0:14:40.120 --> 0:14:42.920 to exist, I mean, what happens when you want to 0:14:42.960 --> 0:14:45.560 cease to exist and you can't do anything about it? Yeah, 0:14:45.600 --> 0:14:49.480 that that would be a totally new type of torture. Sure, 0:14:49.560 --> 0:14:51.560 And that was another part of that same article, I 0:14:51.560 --> 0:14:54.520 think it was in the Atlantic Um where they said, well, 0:14:54.520 --> 0:14:57.160 what does a life sentence look like? You know, and 0:14:57.240 --> 0:14:59.280 if you if you do something wrong in the future 0:14:59.320 --> 0:15:01.600 generation to sides that you've done something wrong and you 0:15:01.640 --> 0:15:03.920 should be punished, well, you're still around for that future 0:15:03.960 --> 0:15:07.680 generation to punish you. And how long will that last? 0:15:07.800 --> 0:15:12.160 And what does it look like? Other considerations? Who owns 0:15:12.400 --> 0:15:16.000 the who owns the brain? Because if if you are 0:15:16.480 --> 0:15:20.240 comporting yourself over into some digital format, presumably there's some 0:15:20.280 --> 0:15:26.360 hardware and software involved. Who owns that experience? Does it 0:15:26.400 --> 0:15:29.480 doesn't revert to the person that was the original individual? 0:15:29.520 --> 0:15:32.000 Does it revert to the hardware that it exists upon. 0:15:32.080 --> 0:15:34.440 Does it revert to the software that makes it possible? 0:15:35.560 --> 0:15:38.560 That sounds like a silly question, but it's it's not. 0:15:38.640 --> 0:15:40.880 In the age of people who are able to patent 0:15:41.000 --> 0:15:44.520 genes human genes, you have to figure out like, well, 0:15:45.520 --> 0:15:47.760 how how do you say, let me correct myself before 0:15:47.760 --> 0:15:49.880 you get a bunch of listener mail who are able 0:15:49.920 --> 0:15:52.760 to patent genetic processes that are the results of genes. 0:15:53.040 --> 0:15:57.400 Because the human genes discussion was eventually said, no, you can't, 0:15:57.480 --> 0:15:59.640 you can't patent gene But if it's for the late eighties, 0:15:59.680 --> 0:16:05.400 I would have been right, yeah h. And also, going 0:16:05.440 --> 0:16:08.880 back to cultural issues, even if you assume that everyone 0:16:08.920 --> 0:16:11.720 has access to this, what does that mean for religions? 0:16:12.680 --> 0:16:16.360 A large part of many religions happens to be about 0:16:16.440 --> 0:16:19.880 the experience that comes after death. That that, in fact, 0:16:20.320 --> 0:16:23.400 a lot of religions suggests that the life here on 0:16:23.480 --> 0:16:27.280 earth is merely preparation for what comes next. But if 0:16:27.320 --> 0:16:31.680 you extend that that life indefinitely, what does that mean 0:16:31.800 --> 0:16:35.560 from a religious standpoint. It's a tough question to answer. 0:16:35.640 --> 0:16:37.960 I can't answer it, but it's you know, it's another 0:16:38.000 --> 0:16:41.640 one of those things where we get these philosophical uh 0:16:41.840 --> 0:16:43.920 problems that come in. There are other ones to like, 0:16:44.000 --> 0:16:46.680 let's say that you are able to extend your life 0:16:46.680 --> 0:16:51.400 span indefinitely, what happens to population? I saw you, I 0:16:51.440 --> 0:16:53.640 saw this in this article, and I don't think that 0:16:53.680 --> 0:16:56.480 there's that much of an issue here because think about it. 0:16:56.520 --> 0:17:01.120 If we all live in a non corporeal form, that's 0:17:01.240 --> 0:17:04.280 the key though, that's non corporeal, but digital immortality might 0:17:04.320 --> 0:17:07.080 be allowed if we have, like I said, an implant 0:17:07.119 --> 0:17:10.040 in our heads. Oh well, then there will be body. 0:17:11.119 --> 0:17:13.880 I mean that's what That will be your status symbol 0:17:13.920 --> 0:17:16.040 that you own your own body and there's not a 0:17:16.080 --> 0:17:19.080 hundred other people in your body with you. Yeah, all 0:17:19.080 --> 0:17:21.560 trying to make decisions about where to go to dinner 0:17:21.640 --> 0:17:23.960 or what to get at It just becomes a really 0:17:24.040 --> 0:17:28.400 really extreme version of all of me another Steve Martin, Yes, 0:17:28.600 --> 0:17:33.560 and Lily Tomlin was in that. Um. Yeah, So it's 0:17:34.520 --> 0:17:37.600 it's there are a lot of philosophical questions that we 0:17:37.640 --> 0:17:39.760 would have to come to grips with if this were 0:17:39.800 --> 0:17:43.400 in fact ever to become a reality never happened. Yeah, 0:17:43.400 --> 0:17:45.960 And I'm not I'm not poo pooing the possibility. I'm 0:17:46.000 --> 0:17:48.719 not saying that definitely is not going to happen. I 0:17:48.720 --> 0:17:52.160 don't believe that we know enough about things to say 0:17:52.200 --> 0:17:54.560 that it never will. I also don't believe we know 0:17:54.680 --> 0:17:57.600 enough about things to say it definitely well, or especially 0:17:57.640 --> 0:18:01.159 the definitely will by Yeah. Know, in his defense, he 0:18:01.240 --> 0:18:03.560 was saying that we would be cyborgs and that we 0:18:03.560 --> 0:18:05.760 would be able to interface with the internet just using 0:18:05.760 --> 0:18:08.800 our as opposed to being truly immortal. He's talking more 0:18:08.840 --> 0:18:12.959 about yeah, and even then, that's still one eight maybe 0:18:13.480 --> 0:18:17.520 of that singularity right. Well, one, I ran into a 0:18:17.560 --> 0:18:20.399 couple of things that were kind of interesting while getting 0:18:20.400 --> 0:18:22.480 ready for this podcast. I kind of wanted to sort 0:18:22.520 --> 0:18:25.439 of conclude on this. So while we're nowhere close to 0:18:25.480 --> 0:18:28.000 the point where we can pour the brain over into 0:18:28.040 --> 0:18:31.840 some digital format and live forever, where continuity really isn't 0:18:31.840 --> 0:18:33.920 an issue yet because we don't have the we don't 0:18:33.960 --> 0:18:38.159 even have the basis to work with as let alone 0:18:38.200 --> 0:18:41.680 the figuring out how to port stuff over. There are 0:18:41.720 --> 0:18:49.080 people working on ways to share who you are beyond uh, 0:18:49.240 --> 0:18:52.720 your lifespan, and one of them I ran into. In fact, 0:18:52.760 --> 0:18:55.160 I've signed up for the beta, but it hasn't it's 0:18:55.160 --> 0:18:58.919 still on the alpha park. The beta is a service 0:18:58.960 --> 0:19:03.240 called it turner dot me, so a turn and me 0:19:04.080 --> 0:19:07.920 is a website and it essentially is going to scrub 0:19:08.520 --> 0:19:12.960 your social presence on the web to get an idea 0:19:12.960 --> 0:19:15.879 of who you are. The idea being that eventually it 0:19:15.920 --> 0:19:19.520 would create an avatar that could act as you do, 0:19:19.800 --> 0:19:23.600 you know, guided by all the experiences you share with it, 0:19:24.200 --> 0:19:28.960 as you as you just be you online. The person 0:19:29.000 --> 0:19:33.520 behind it I believe the name is Sunshine actually, Um 0:19:33.720 --> 0:19:37.399 says that it would probably take ten years for the 0:19:37.440 --> 0:19:42.080 algorithm to kind of learn your you know, how you 0:19:42.119 --> 0:19:45.439 are you before it could react in a way that 0:19:45.600 --> 0:19:49.800 seemed to be similar. At least ten years, I think 0:19:49.840 --> 0:19:53.720 they they say the longer, the better. Is there And 0:19:54.080 --> 0:19:56.800 there's actually kind of a sad part of the story too, 0:19:56.880 --> 0:19:59.440 that that he's been contacted by a lot of people 0:19:59.480 --> 0:20:03.359 who Um are suffering from terminal illnesses and they're looking 0:20:03.400 --> 0:20:05.000 at this as a way of being able to share 0:20:05.040 --> 0:20:07.840 memories with other people after they have gone. He says, 0:20:07.880 --> 0:20:10.160 you know, it's really hard to deal with those requests 0:20:10.160 --> 0:20:13.000 because honestly, the technology isn't at a level of sophistication 0:20:13.040 --> 0:20:17.359 where it could just adapt that quickly. But it is 0:20:17.359 --> 0:20:20.560 an interesting notion in this case. Obviously, the immortality is 0:20:20.600 --> 0:20:25.840 more about your your influence here on the planet. After 0:20:25.960 --> 0:20:29.440 you have gone, you are still gone, but what you 0:20:29.520 --> 0:20:35.120 leave behind continues to influence others. And that's very poetic 0:20:35.200 --> 0:20:37.800 way of looking at immortality. It's not the way Woody 0:20:37.840 --> 0:20:39.720 Allen looked at it, you know, he was always says, 0:20:39.720 --> 0:20:41.480 I don't want to achieve immortality through my work. I 0:20:41.520 --> 0:20:45.920 want to achieve it by not dying, um. But immortality 0:20:45.960 --> 0:20:49.560 through work or through uh, your interactions with other people. 0:20:50.160 --> 0:20:53.160 That is something. And you know, you could argue that, 0:20:53.359 --> 0:20:56.359 you know, like the poem was it as an asomandius, 0:20:56.400 --> 0:20:59.600 where essentially you're like, look at this enormous monument I 0:20:59.640 --> 0:21:01.240 built is going to stand the test of time and 0:21:01.240 --> 0:21:03.120 show how powerful I am. And now it's fallen over 0:21:03.119 --> 0:21:07.760 and it's crumbled and uh and and thus the hubrists 0:21:07.760 --> 0:21:11.520 of the past proves to be unfounded. Uh. I still 0:21:11.560 --> 0:21:14.800 think that this is a very kind of poetic way 0:21:15.480 --> 0:21:18.680 of of at least showing people that you care for them, 0:21:18.760 --> 0:21:21.439 even if it, even if it is a little weird 0:21:21.560 --> 0:21:25.199 on the artificial intelligence doing it on your behalf, you 0:21:25.240 --> 0:21:28.760 will never get rid of me in my Facebook posts. Yeah, 0:21:28.800 --> 0:21:31.879 and I had posted in the in the or I 0:21:31.920 --> 0:21:34.960 wrote in the article about Brian Brushwood, and I even 0:21:34.960 --> 0:21:38.120 had Brushwood on this show and I asked him about this. Yeah, 0:21:38.119 --> 0:21:40.119 this was years ago, and it was an idea he 0:21:40.119 --> 0:21:42.640 had had. I don't know that he ever actually implemented it, 0:21:43.000 --> 0:21:46.280 but his idea was to create a very simple algorithm 0:21:46.320 --> 0:21:51.960 that would copy previous posts he had made online and 0:21:52.119 --> 0:21:55.240 post on his behalf after he dies. The idea being 0:21:55.240 --> 0:21:57.360 that every year, on his birthday, he would be prompted 0:21:57.400 --> 0:21:59.879 to send a message to this account, and if he 0:22:00.040 --> 0:22:01.960 did not do it within a certain amount of time, 0:22:02.359 --> 0:22:04.920 it would activate and start posting for him, so that 0:22:04.960 --> 0:22:07.960 even after he had died, the ghost in the machine 0:22:08.080 --> 0:22:11.639 version of him would continue to update Twitter or Facebook. 0:22:13.400 --> 0:22:16.399 So I wonder how often, like the appropriateness in the 0:22:16.480 --> 0:22:19.080 context of it would be so oft that it would 0:22:19.080 --> 0:22:21.800 be like a Horsey Book's tweet or something like that. Yeah, 0:22:21.840 --> 0:22:25.679 where you you know, like especially you know, especially if 0:22:25.720 --> 0:22:30.119 something really tragic had happened, like big newsworthy tragic event happens, 0:22:30.160 --> 0:22:34.720 and then them yeah and like yeah exactly, or or 0:22:34.760 --> 0:22:37.040 you know, like let's say that there was a huge 0:22:38.080 --> 0:22:41.119 fire that broke out in Texas, which is where he lives. 0:22:41.119 --> 0:22:43.080 Like let's say there's an enormous fire and then it's 0:22:43.080 --> 0:22:45.879 just like, man, it sure is hot today, or something 0:22:45.920 --> 0:22:47.920 like that. That would be it would be like, wow, 0:22:47.960 --> 0:22:51.280 that's an incredibly poor taste, although to be fair, Brian 0:22:51.320 --> 0:22:55.320 would probably think that was hilarious. There's there's already another 0:22:55.400 --> 0:22:57.520 service out there, or at least there was a few 0:22:57.600 --> 0:22:59.240 years back. I don't know if they're still around, but 0:22:59.280 --> 0:23:01.880 it was called Deaths which and it wasn't It wasn't 0:23:01.880 --> 0:23:06.040 meant to keep going. But you write letters, emails, that 0:23:06.160 --> 0:23:09.119