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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: And welcome back to George Nori with Les Leopold's book

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Speaker 2: is Wall Streets War on Workers Less? You were about

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Speaker 2: to tell us a story before the break hit us.

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Speaker 2: You want to get into that.

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Speaker 3: Well, I got to have a couple that I'd like

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Speaker 3: to tell you. One I'd like to tell you is

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Speaker 3: that these companies really are capable of people keeping people working.

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Speaker 3: Let me tell you the story of Seamen's Energy. Okay,

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Speaker 3: a couple of years ago, they decided to get out

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Speaker 3: of a certain part of their business. You know, I

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Speaker 3: have eighty thousand employees around the wheeld and they're going

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Speaker 3: to lay off seven thousand people, seventeen hundred in the US,

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Speaker 3: three thousand in Germany where they're based. Well, in the US,

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Speaker 3: all seventeen hundred workers lost their jobs, and I was

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Speaker 3: very heartbroken to see one of the plants go down

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Speaker 3: in only in New York, that's what they call the

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Speaker 3: Southern tier of New York, right above Pennsylvania spent a

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Speaker 3: hard hit area for years with plants going down. Well,

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Speaker 3: in Germany, what happened is they had this thing called

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Speaker 3: co determination where half the board of director seats are

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Speaker 3: held by workers. And this was a system that the

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Speaker 3: US basically encouraged Germany to do after World War Two

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Speaker 3: because they thought this was a way to keep Germany

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Speaker 3: from becoming you know, rearming in a bad way and

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Speaker 3: going fascist again, etc. So the US wanted this system. Well,

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Speaker 3: what happened in Germany is they negotiated, negotiated, and investigated, negotiated,

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Speaker 3: and finally Semens Semens agrees to keep all six of

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Speaker 3: these plants they are open, do no compulsory layoffs, only

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Speaker 3: voluntary layoffs, and put a new kind of put new

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Speaker 3: products into those six plants. So the towns around those

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Speaker 3: plants would suffer. So the same company didn't lay off

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Speaker 3: any body. They're laid off seventeen hundred people here. So

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Speaker 3: I know, this proves to me that large corporations have

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Speaker 3: the capacity to you know, rearrange the step chairs, put

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Speaker 3: something here, put something there. They don't have to do

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Speaker 3: compulsory layoffs. They do it because it's very profitable and

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Speaker 3: their Wall street backers want them to do it. That's

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Speaker 3: one story. The second story I want to tell you,

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Speaker 3: if you have a secure you know, think about this

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Speaker 3: for a second, you're in Pennsylvania, Western Pennsylvania. Your plant

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Speaker 3: goes down in a rural area, A thousand people are

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Speaker 3: out of work, and you're all scrambling look for the

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Speaker 3: few jobs that are available. If you and your neighbors

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Speaker 3: are now competing for all these jobs, it's very depressing.

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Speaker 3: But people are told, well, you know, your kids are

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Speaker 3: going to have it better. They're going to get involved

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Speaker 3: in the high tech sector, they'll get better jobs. Well,

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Speaker 3: last year, Georgia, touch this. They're the most the booming

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Speaker 3: high tech sector, right, the most profitable, you know, the

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Speaker 3: starship of the American economy during a boom, laid off

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Speaker 3: two one hundred and sixty two thousand workers, right and

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Speaker 3: so far this year another seventy thousand. And what they're

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Speaker 3: doing is they're using that money to reward their Wall

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Speaker 3: Street investors. They could keep all those people working, but

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Speaker 3: they're choosing to basically cash them in and then move

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Speaker 3: that money to the richest of the rich on Wall Street.

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Speaker 3: This has got to stop. And the underlying story here, George,

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Speaker 3: is that it's a real threat to democracy. People in

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Speaker 3: this country need to work, and they want to work.

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Speaker 3: Work is very important for people's own self work.

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Speaker 2: It's prideful for these people.

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Speaker 3: And it's a community of people. You're co workers, you

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Speaker 3: become part of it. When you take away a person's

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Speaker 3: ability to work, you are undermining their cold, the thing

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Speaker 3: that they need the most in their society. What goods democracy?

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Speaker 3: If I can't have a stable job for my family,

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Speaker 3: that's the thing I worry about the most. That it's

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Speaker 3: it's festering. It's been going on too long. We have

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Speaker 3: to address it. And you know, we talk about building

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Speaker 3: new jobs in the future, economic growth. That's not the

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Speaker 3: same thing as stability. You've got to stop laying off

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Speaker 3: these people right and left. It's bad for everybody when

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Speaker 3: you do that.

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Speaker 2: You talk about the greed factor in your book, tell

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Speaker 2: us about that.

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Speaker 3: It's funny. You know, we do these workshops all over

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Speaker 3: the country on economics, and I asked them, you know,

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Speaker 3: what happened? Why? Why? Why is it's all going on?

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Speaker 3: The first thing that people say is greed. The first

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Speaker 3: thing they say, I go greed with somebody. Just turn

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Speaker 3: on a switch, and all of a sudden, people got greedy.

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Speaker 3: Human nature changed. And I realized, you know, if I

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Speaker 3: sort of pooh pood what they said. And then I

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Speaker 3: started to think about it when I was putting this

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Speaker 3: book together, and I said, you know, they're right, because

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Speaker 3: what happened after nineteen eighty both with Republican and Democratic administrations,

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Speaker 3: is they deregulated Wall Street so that it was okay

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Speaker 3: to be greedy. You could buy up companies with borrowed money,

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Speaker 3: letoff workers, shut down facilities without any interference. You could

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Speaker 3: do this thing called stock buybacks, which was basically illegal

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Speaker 3: until nineteen eighty two, and now it's ubiquitous. Seventy percent

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Speaker 3: of all corporate profits go to stock buybacks, which is

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Speaker 3: really just sucking money out of a company moving it

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Speaker 3: to Wall Street. This was permitted, and a new philosophy

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Speaker 3: came out, which was that greed is basically.

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Speaker 2: Good for us. What said good?

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Speaker 3: I didn't take that seriously, George, until these workers educated me.

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Speaker 3: They said it's got to be greed, And it turns

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Speaker 3: out they were right. We stopped we look in During

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Speaker 3: the Great Depression, the government realized that you could not

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Speaker 3: let Wall Street run wild. If you let it run wild,

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Speaker 3: it would cause another Great Depression, another crash like thineteen

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Speaker 3: twenty nine. Well, that worked beautifully. From nineteen thirty three,

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Speaker 3: all the way till the nineteen eighties. We didn't have

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Speaker 3: any financial crashes, and we had the most booming economy

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Speaker 3: in the history of the United States during that post

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Speaker 3: World War Two period. But you know, a new generation

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Speaker 3: came in. They forgot those lessons. They said, look, if

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Speaker 3: we unleash industry, Wall Street finance will have another big boom.

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Speaker 3: And it looked like things were going to be fine

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Speaker 3: until people start to realize, oh my god, I have

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Speaker 3: no more jobs stability, I'm losing My jobs are being

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Speaker 3: lost in good times and in bad times. And underneath

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Speaker 3: it all was a literally a blessing for greed. If

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Speaker 3: the rich do well, will all do well? Well? How's

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Speaker 3: that worked out for us?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. You know, when you look at the situation,

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Speaker 2: as you mentioned, the chief officer of the company feels

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Speaker 2: responsible when these layoffs occur. If they go ahead and

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Speaker 2: do these anyway, isn't it the entire executive team that

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Speaker 2: failed when you have to have a mass layoff.

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Speaker 3: You would think, George, that that's the way they would

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Speaker 3: view themselves, and back in the sixties, seventies, early eighties,

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Speaker 3: that's exactly what they thought to it. They would do

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Speaker 3: anything to prevent that. You know, it's funny. I have

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Speaker 3: a story to tell you. My cousin, who's now retired,

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Speaker 3: was a real estate developmer. We had a little team

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Speaker 3: of people, you know, ten fifteen people. They did senior

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Speaker 3: citizens homes around Washington, d C. Developments. I said, normal,

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Speaker 3: what did you do when there was a recession? Did

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Speaker 3: you lay off people? He says, no, I didn't want.

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Speaker 3: I never wanted to lay off anybody. We found some

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Speaker 3: other way. We cut down time, we shared jobs, We

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Speaker 3: did anything possible because once I put a team together,

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Speaker 3: I was committed to that team. I never wanted to

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Speaker 3: lay anybody off. Well, he's an old school guy. He

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Speaker 3: was a kid that grew up in the nineteen fifties

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Speaker 3: and came of age in the sixties and became a businessman.

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Speaker 3: That was the attitude at that time. It became a

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Speaker 3: cultural norm, and that cultural norm has been destroyed now,

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Speaker 3: and that that's what's so dangerous. You know, this is

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Speaker 3: what got me about Overland College. They thought that this

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Speaker 3: was cool to lay off people. They didn't regret it,

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Speaker 3: you know, they didn't regret harming these people's lives. They

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Speaker 3: thought this was what a smart business person that ran

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Speaker 3: a college. This is what you should do. You've got

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Speaker 3: to be tough. So now instead of what you said, George,

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Speaker 3: now it's the opposite. You go to grad school and

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Speaker 3: business and you learn to be tough. You got to

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Speaker 3: lay off people good times and dad, you've got to

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Speaker 3: squeeze that company and you've got to reward your investors

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Speaker 3: through stock buybacks. And that's just the way the game

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Speaker 3: is played. Is you can't play that game. You shouldn't

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Speaker 3: be in this business.

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Speaker 2: Who lets the companies, who let the companies less get

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Speaker 2: so fat?

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Speaker 3: Well, both the Democrats and the Republicans more or less

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Speaker 3: colluded on this. First there was the Reagan administration, then

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Speaker 3: it was Bill Clint's administration. They start competing with each

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Speaker 3: other to deregulate Wall Street, and once you deregulate, they

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Speaker 3: will do whatever they can to make more money, which

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Speaker 3: led to that gigantic crash in two thousand and eight,

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Speaker 3: two thousand and nine. I wrote another book about that too,

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Speaker 3: and it was like embarrassing the kind of stuff they did.

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Speaker 3: But they would deregulated, and once it starts. I'm sorry

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Speaker 3: to say this, Georgia. This is the cynical side of

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Speaker 3: myself and I don't like to reveal it too often,

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Speaker 3: but there's a competition for Wall Street cash for your campaign,

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Speaker 3: right You want that big business money, so both parties

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Speaker 3: start competing for it. Number one. Number two, you know

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Speaker 3: your new and your staff. You start thinking about what

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Speaker 3: happens if I lose the election. Where am I going

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Speaker 3: to work? Well, there's huge openings in lobbying firms in

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Speaker 3: Washington that work for these big Wall Street firms. Their

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Speaker 3: jobs on Wall Street. I think they have their eye

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Speaker 3: on you know, if I leave government, I can go

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Speaker 3: work for Wall Street if I'm nice to them. And

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Speaker 3: the third factor, George, is they lofty. People think they're

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Speaker 3: the smartest people in the room all the time, and

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Speaker 3: I think a lot of politicians view them as they

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Speaker 3: really know what they're doing. You know, they're the gurus.

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Speaker 3: They are the people really understand how the world works,

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Speaker 3: so I have to listen to them. The combination of

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Speaker 3: those three things has been a disaster for us. We've

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Speaker 3: seeing wealth for the very few climb and climb and climbs,

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Speaker 3: and the average working person is dealing with incredible amount

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Speaker 3: of instability, economic instability. And you know, George, people like

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Speaker 3: you and I are lucky right, we're able to. I mean,

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Speaker 3: how long have you been doing this work?

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Speaker 2: A long time, A long long time, And I've been.

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Speaker 3: I started, I co founded our institute in nineteen seventy six.

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Speaker 3: It's the only job I've really had, so we're lucky.

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Speaker 3: But I've run into just hundreds and hundreds of people

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Speaker 3: have got gone through mats layoffs. In a workshop I

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Speaker 3: was doing with the steel workers people in the workshop,

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Speaker 3: I ask them, how many of you got through a

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Speaker 3: mass layoffs? Forty eight of them raise their hands and

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Speaker 3: it doesn't have gone through more than one. So you know,

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Speaker 3: this is a crisis, and it's not being talked about.

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Speaker 3: It's hidden under the table. Both political parties don't want

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Speaker 3: to talk about this because if they do talk about it,

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Speaker 3: they're going to their donors are going to get upsets.

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Speaker 3: So it's my job and I hopefully your listener's job,

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Speaker 3: to raise this issue. Mass Layoffs should not be taking place.

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Speaker 3: Corporations should should have an obligation to keep workers on

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Speaker 3: as long as possible. If they have to let them go,

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Speaker 3: they need to give them a package that's large enough

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Speaker 3: so they voluntarily leave, no forced layoffs. If they need

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Speaker 3: to do it in Germany. They can do it here,

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Speaker 3: same corporations, you know, it's not like they're different. And

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Speaker 3: by the way, Germany is more export oriented than we are,

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Speaker 3: so you think they'd be worried more about their costs.

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Speaker 3: It's not that expensive. You just can't do as many

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Speaker 3: stock buybacks. You can't do one hundred billion dollars worth

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Speaker 3: of stock buybacks. You know, maybe only have to do

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Speaker 3: ninety billions and use that ten billion to take care

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Speaker 3: of your workers. It can be done, George, but there

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Speaker 3: has to be a will, and your listeners have to

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Speaker 3: force corporations and politicians to start taking them Seriously. We

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Speaker 3: want job stability. I think everybody deserves that in America.

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Speaker 2: Well, that's what happened to the companies like Sears, Robot, Kmart,

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Speaker 2: J C. Penny. Was it mismanagement or was it Amazon

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Speaker 2: dot Com that got them?

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Speaker 3: Well, I can tell you the story of a similar company,

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Speaker 3: two of them Toys r Us and dead Bath and Beyond.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, theyd Bath just bit the dust, didn't they.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, thirty thousand workers and what happened there was they

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Speaker 3: basically milk the company. They saw the competition for Amazon,

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Speaker 3: but rather than create, you know, spend the money to

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Speaker 3: create a good online presence, a platform and all the

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Speaker 3: advertising everything has to go with it. They decided to

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Speaker 3: do gigantic stock five backs, literally took billions of dollars

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Speaker 3: out of the company to try to jack When you

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Speaker 3: do that, you jack up the price and the shares.

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Speaker 3: The people, you know, the investors that the Wall Street

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Speaker 3: investors that make a bundle, they sell their shares and

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Speaker 3: the companies left high and drive. They did that enough

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Speaker 3: until the whole place collapsed. I'll be writing about this

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Speaker 3: next week Wednesday on my sub stack. That very story.

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Speaker 1: Another one.

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Speaker 3: Which is Toys r Us, another New Jersey based company.

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Speaker 3: This one happened with the other set of villains, and

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Speaker 3: those those are the private equity companies. Three of them

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Speaker 3: got together and they they bought up Toys Rus using

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Speaker 3: a ton of borrowed money, like at least ninety percent

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Speaker 3: of the price was borrowed money. And then of course

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Speaker 3: they put that borrowed debt that's dead onto Toys r Us,

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Speaker 3: so the debt service went blind through the roof. And

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Speaker 3: after they then paint themselves the the the private equity

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Speaker 3: companies paint themselves out huge managemencies milk the company and

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Speaker 3: then the thing just collapsed. So this I don't know.

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Speaker 3: I've got to be honest with you. I don't know

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Speaker 3: the story of Sears and Kmart as well as I

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Speaker 3: know these two stories. But tens of thousands of companies

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Speaker 3: have been bought up with borrowed money put on those

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Speaker 3: companies then leading towards layoffs. Look, some of it is

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Speaker 3: the turning of you know, the marketplace, the shifts of

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Speaker 3: what consumers want, et cetera. But a lot of it,

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Speaker 3: a lot of it is this incredible what I call

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Speaker 3: financial script mining, literally stripping out the wealth of the company,

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Speaker 3: putting it in the investors pocket. I'm leaving the company

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Speaker 3: and its workers high and dry.

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Speaker 1: Listen to more Coast to Coast AM every weeknight at

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Speaker 1: one a m. Eastern and go to Coast to coastam

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