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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, a beautiful young woman found

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Speaker 1: buried in the Nevada Desert. I'm Nancy Grace. This is

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Speaker 1: Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. The victim

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Speaker 1: in this case, Jamie Fieden, just thirty three years old,

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Speaker 1: was lured into the desert by a Pennsylvania man, John

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Speaker 1: Matthew Chapman. She Jamie Fedden, just four feet tall, was

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Speaker 1: found suffocated with duct tape and left to die in

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Speaker 1: the Nevada Desert. We learn the defendant is revealed to

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Speaker 1: be a married man who had been living a double

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Speaker 1: life after he lied about his job despite dating Fedden again.

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Speaker 1: Chapman reportedly married to his wife Marien Chapman almost a year,

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Speaker 1: but on Facebook first to himself as single, calling his

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Speaker 1: wife Maureen Cysts under a profile picture. Maureene says she

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Speaker 1: learned of Chapman's relationship with Fedden, found dead, after he

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Speaker 1: called her from the police department and confessed. Jamie's loved

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Speaker 1: ones believe Chapman pretended to be her on social media

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Speaker 1: after her disappearance by making suspicious Facebook posts. The facts

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Speaker 1: in this case so disheartening, offering apparently to take Jamie

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Speaker 1: out into the desert for a photoshoot.

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Speaker 2: What more do we know?

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Speaker 1: This tiny, diminutive woman goes missing. It doesn't take long

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Speaker 1: before police discover a man with a double life.

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Speaker 3: Listen, well, I got off the phone with Chapman's wife

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Speaker 3: a short time ago, and there are really three big takeaways. First,

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Speaker 3: Maureen Chapman says her husband been called her this morning

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Speaker 3: and confessed to murder. She says she's just learning her

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Speaker 3: husband was living a double life, pretending to visit family

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Speaker 3: and lying about his job. And Lastly, Chapman says her

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Speaker 3: husband drove her truck to Vegas and the Nevada Desert,

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Speaker 3: where he confessed to murdering. Feed In Chapman has only

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Speaker 3: been charged with kidnapping at this point.

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Speaker 4: He said he had murdered a woman.

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Speaker 3: A frantic six am phone call woke up Maureen Chapman.

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Speaker 3: Her husband was calling from the Bethel Park Police Department.

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Speaker 3: His words, I killed her because I had to. This

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Speaker 3: is Jamie Fieden, the woman, police say John Chapman admitted

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Speaker 3: to murdering. Police say he drove her to Nevada, tied

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Speaker 3: feet in up to a post with zip ties, covered

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Speaker 3: her mouth with duct tape, and let her suffocate. Nevada

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Speaker 3: officials are now working to identify a body they found

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Speaker 3: that matches feed In's description.

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Speaker 1: Our friends at eleven News wpx R that was Amy

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Speaker 1: Hugh Dack. I think a big giveaway. A tip to

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Speaker 1: the wife who says she had no idea what was

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Speaker 1: going on on his Facebook page. He refers to her

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Speaker 1: or his wife as quote cis under a profile picture?

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Speaker 2: What cis?

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Speaker 1: Are you kidding me? That would be big, big giveaway.

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Speaker 1: Jamie Theeden, the victim in this case, As I said,

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Speaker 1: a tiny, diminutive woman. Can you imagine this guy allegedly

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Speaker 1: living a double life, wants to take you out for

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Speaker 1: a ride. You go out, you're driving through a beautiful

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Speaker 1: desert area. You get out, and suddenly you end up

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Speaker 1: tied up to a post or a tree, and then

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Speaker 1: duct tape is placed over your mouth and knows and

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Speaker 1: you die that way. The last thing you see is

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Speaker 1: the man you love and thought loved you with me

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Speaker 1: an all start panel, but right now to Crime online

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Speaker 1: dot Com investigative reporter Dave mac Let's just start at

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Speaker 1: the beginning of this timeline and dissect this. Says you

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Speaker 1: would if you were preparing a case for trial. When

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Speaker 1: did Jamie Feeden go missing?

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Speaker 5: Nancy?

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Speaker 6: The last time Jamie was seen was September the fifteenth,

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Speaker 6: and that was when she was lured out of town

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Speaker 6: by Chapman. Chapman and Feeden had a long relationship that

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Speaker 6: goes back to high school or community college. It was

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Speaker 6: referred to as an on again, off again relationship between

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Speaker 6: the two, but it was certainly one sided on the

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Speaker 6: side of Jamie Feeden because we know that Chapman has

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Speaker 6: been married at least two times, the first time for

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Speaker 6: seven years, and was married in the last twelve months

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Speaker 6: to a lady named Maureen.

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Speaker 1: Wait wait, sorry, didn't rupt you, Dave mac But Bethany Marshall, WHOA.

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Speaker 1: I know you have to deal with a lot of

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Speaker 1: problems like how much do my boots cost on rodeo

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Speaker 1: drive with all of your clients, And my house isn't

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Speaker 1: as big as my next door neighbors, and my pool's

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Speaker 1: not in the right shape, blah blah blah. But Bethany,

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Speaker 1: in the real world, I got a real problem with

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Speaker 1: this guy, John Chapman allegedly living a double life now.

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Speaker 1: Dave matt Crime online dot Com investigator reporter tells me Theeden,

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Speaker 1: Jamie was in love with him, But when you look

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Speaker 1: at his bio on Facebook, he says, I'm a thirty

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Speaker 1: nine year old single guy from Pennsylvania. I've lived here

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Speaker 1: most of my life. I'm always trying to meet new

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Speaker 1: and interesting people. Translation, I want to get laid. That's

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Speaker 1: what that means on Facebook. Okay, that's a technical legal term, Bethany.

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure you're familiar with it. But then it

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Speaker 1: goes on now wait for it, wait for it. Any

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Speaker 1: relationship to his wife Marien is further obscured when he

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Speaker 1: comments under his wife's picture looking good, sis help me, Bethany.

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Speaker 7: Well, actually, this is kind of a classic pattern of

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Speaker 7: an antisocial personality disorder. They often lead a double life,

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Speaker 7: They have multiple sexual partners, a great deal of promiscuity.

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Speaker 7: They relate to women as sexual objects, always trying to

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Speaker 7: conquer them. And what they do with the primary love object,

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Speaker 7: the wife at home, is that they will desexualize the

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Speaker 7: wife while being overly sexualized with other women in society.

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Speaker 7: I see this actually in couple's therapy with men like this,

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Speaker 7: where they actually kind of call the wife's dude sis,

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Speaker 7: you know, poker in the ribs. Treat her like she's

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Speaker 7: a little sister. All the while they're having a double

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Speaker 7: life and affairs all over the place. But the other

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Speaker 7: part is that that Chapman's wife could probably see.

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Speaker 1: But why do they do that? Why do people desexualize

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Speaker 1: the marriage partner.

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Speaker 7: Because they want control over the marriage partner and they

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Speaker 7: only want to have sex with people who do not

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Speaker 7: see them for who they really are. You know, the

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Speaker 7: people in your primary circle know that you have feet

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Speaker 7: of clay, right, They may know that you bounce a check,

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Speaker 7: or that maybe you've got a traffic violation, or maybe

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Speaker 7: you're not so nice, or maybe your breast else in

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Speaker 7: the morning that's not sexy to them. They're going to

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Speaker 7: de sexualize those partners. There's a very famous case in

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Speaker 7: my field written up by a man named John Malloy,

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Speaker 7: who reading Malloy excuse me, who talks about a case

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Speaker 7: where a man goes out, he makes his wife dress

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Speaker 7: up as a little girl like a doll, makes her

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Speaker 7: lie down in the bathroom, goes out, has sex with

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Speaker 7: other women, comes home and deficates on her. Now, this

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Speaker 7: is a classic case in my field. We talk about

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Speaker 7: it in classes because this perpetrator was over sexualizing every

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Speaker 7: woman in the world. And then he was turning his

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Speaker 7: wife into a little girl, an object in which he

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Speaker 7: just deficates on and she has no value at all.

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Speaker 7: So this is a classic, classic pattern.

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Speaker 1: Okay, can I just apologize right now to the listeners

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Speaker 1: for what doctor Bethany Marshall just said, because I'm going

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Speaker 1: to have that stuck in my head for I don't

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Speaker 1: know how many days. Okay, thank you, doctor Bethany Marshall

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Speaker 1: for ruining the rest of my day. But you know

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Speaker 1: what I asked for it. I did not expect that answer,

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Speaker 1: But I blame myself totally, which is probably another neurosis

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Speaker 1: of some sort.

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Speaker 8: You know.

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Speaker 1: Wendy Patrick, California prosecutor and author of Red Flags. The

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Speaker 1: problem is he's got a double life, as Bethany accurately

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Speaker 1: pointed out, where the whole wife, a whole life going

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Speaker 1: on that Jamie knew nothing about. But that does not

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Speaker 1: a murder case make That's great.

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Speaker 8: And you know, it's one of those things that likely

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Speaker 8: will play into a defense in a case like this.

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Speaker 8: We hear about love triangles all the time, and men

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Speaker 8: much of the time that does involve a double life.

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Speaker 8: It's also interesting that we have some online evidence here

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Speaker 8: that desexualization, though, is fascinating, you know, not just because

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Speaker 8: of the reasons doctor Marshall mentioned, By the way, the

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Speaker 8: read Malloy case is also interesting. I work with Reid

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Speaker 8: on in threat assessment cases. But it will play in circumstantially, Nancy,

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Speaker 8: as you and I and actually John Cardillo as well

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Speaker 8: have dealt with in formulating why this isn't just a

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Speaker 8: case of someone leading a double life, and why the

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Speaker 8: circumstance is indicate it is a murder. Now, that's obviously

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Speaker 8: some of the analysis that they're going to prepare for

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Speaker 8: trial and as we move forward, because remember, right now

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Speaker 8: it's just a kidnapping, and it's also an interesting case

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Speaker 8: regarding corpus. You know, somebody can confess to a crime,

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Speaker 8: but you also need to prove that it happened, So

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Speaker 8: all of what we're discussing here will also be relevant

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Speaker 8: proving that up as well.

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Speaker 1: You know what, You're right, Wendy Patrick. The law is

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Speaker 1: that a case cannot be made on a confession alone.

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Speaker 1: It must be proven otherwise. Crime stories with Nancy Grace

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Speaker 1: in the last hours, a Pennsylvania man who kidnaps his

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Speaker 1: girlfriend has confessed to her killing. We now know he

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Speaker 1: has led a startling and disturbing double life in the

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Speaker 1: last days. This guy a Pennsylvania man, John Matthew Chapman,

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Speaker 1: convicted and sentenced to life for the murder of thirty

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Speaker 1: three year old Jamie Theeden found buried in the Nevada Desert.

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Speaker 1: But what more do we know about the facts.

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Speaker 9: Jamie Feeden was last seen September fifteenth. On September twenty third,

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Speaker 9: both Vedan and John Chapman arrived in Las Vegas after

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Speaker 9: driving across country from Bethel Park. He told her that

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Speaker 9: they were going to look at Holmes and then two

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Speaker 9: days later, Chapman told Feieden they were going to drive

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Speaker 9: to the desert.

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Speaker 2: For a photoshoot. According to court.

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Speaker 9: Paperwork, Chapman told police, while in the desert, he tied

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Speaker 9: Vedan's hands and feet to a sign pole and covered

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Speaker 9: her mouth with duct tape, causing her to suffocate and die.

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Speaker 9: He then left her and drove back to Bethel Park. Then,

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Speaker 9: on October fifth, remains of a woman were found in

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Speaker 9: the Nevada Desert, and now on October fourteenth, the missing

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Speaker 9: person's report was filed for Feeden. Chapman called police and

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Speaker 9: was asked about Fidan's disappearance. He apparently gave detectives false

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Speaker 9: information about the case. He was charged in her kidnapping.

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Speaker 1: A charge does not a jury conviction make. As you

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Speaker 1: just heard, a confession alone cannot be the basis of

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Speaker 1: a murder, indictment or conviction. It's got to be proven

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Speaker 1: and corroborated. Anybody can walk into the police station and

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Speaker 1: give a false confession. Do I believe it happens? Often? No,

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Speaker 1: but it does happen, and it wreaks havoc in the

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Speaker 1: justice system. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank

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Speaker 1: you for being with us. You just heard from Channel

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Speaker 1: eleven w p XI Lisa Sylvester describing what we think

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Speaker 1: is the timeline breakdown doctor Tim Gallagher, the medical examiner

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Speaker 1: for the State of Florida. To top it all off,

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Speaker 1: Jamie Feeden, the murder victim had something called Vader syndrome.

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Speaker 1: I'm not quite sure what that is. I'm just a JD.

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Speaker 2: You're the MD.

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Speaker 1: I know that she was only about four feet tall,

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Speaker 1: and she had been seeing John Chapman since either high

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Speaker 1: school or community college. They have been together a long time.

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Speaker 1: On top of that, he was a eelywed. He had

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Speaker 1: been married to his wife Marine less than a year.

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Speaker 1: So explain to me, doctor Gallagher, what is Vader syndrome.

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Speaker 4: Quo Vader syndrome is a collection of developmental abnormalities that

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Speaker 4: occur in one person after they're born. A Vader v

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Speaker 4: for Victoria, the first letter represents vertebral anomalies. For instance,

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Speaker 4: they may have severe scoliosis of the spine, which is bending,

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Speaker 4: twisting of the spine. It may be extra bones in

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Speaker 4: the spine, it's not a normal spine. Also, a the

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Speaker 4: A part of Vader stands for anus, and oftentimes the

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Speaker 4: anus is not open and that has to be opened surgically.

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Speaker 4: And then there are other abnormalities of the limbs and

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Speaker 4: of the internal organs that prevent them from development. For

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Speaker 4: for developing normally. That can lead to a very short

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Speaker 4: stature and a very difficult physical life.

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Speaker 1: You know, apparently all the signs were there. Doctor Bethany Marshall,

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Speaker 1: Hollywood psychoanalyst at doctor Bethany Marshall dot com. Did you

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Speaker 1: notice that her Jamie's friends did not like John Chapman.

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Speaker 1: They did not want her seeing him. That's a big,

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Speaker 1: big red flag.

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Speaker 7: I did notice that. And one of the things that

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Speaker 7: keeps grabbing my attention about this is the fact that

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Speaker 7: she had a disability and he didn't, and did he

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Speaker 7: use that to control her, Because people with disabilities are

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Speaker 7: often abused in very specific ways. Maybe they're shamed, maybe

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Speaker 7: their disability checks are taken. Sometimes they're thrust into a

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Speaker 7: public situation where they're demeaned by their partner. They're told

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Speaker 7: that they don't they're not allowed to have restroom breaks,

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Speaker 7: or that their voice sounds silly. So he chose a

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Speaker 7: partner who he had in his life for a long

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Speaker 7: long time, who I think he could probably control and

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Speaker 7: manipulate because of her disability, and so that held meaning

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Speaker 7: for him. And we see how it all ended. He

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Speaker 7: tied her to a post, he duct taped her mouth,

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Speaker 7: he watched her suffer. I cannot believe that this was

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Speaker 7: the first time he treated her this way. It's just

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Speaker 7: that it's spilled over into a homicide at this point.

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Speaker 7: But I'm sure violence, mistreatment and abuse towards her had

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Speaker 7: been building for many, many years.

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Speaker 1: Well, I know of one incident, and I'm curious as

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Speaker 1: to whether this will come into trial. John Cardillo with

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Speaker 1: me former NYPD host of America talks on Newsmax TV.

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Speaker 1: John a friend of Jamie's, claims that Chapman mistreated her,

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Speaker 1: including using Jamie for money, and she describes an incident

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Speaker 1: when Faden Jamie allegedly arrived at a restaurant with Chapman

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Speaker 1: and Jamie had two black eyes.

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Speaker 10: Yeah, I mean that that's indicative of a long term

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Speaker 10: period of abuse. She was probably hiding it. I mean, look,

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Speaker 10: as an investigator, we'd be looking into why he would

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Speaker 10: choose to cheat on his wife with somebody with such

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Speaker 10: physical infirmities. Was there some kind of of fetish, What

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Speaker 10: was he into something? You know, weird, bizarre? Quite frankly,

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Speaker 10: if it were me, I'd be looking for other victims

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Speaker 10: at this point, other disappearances of people with similar conditions

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Speaker 10: that lived in his area. Because the fact pattern, as

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Speaker 10: we know it indicates a very troubled guy, a very

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Speaker 10: dangerous guy. And so I think the instincts of the

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Speaker 10: friends were spot on. Look, they got a bad vibe

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Speaker 10: off the guy. That's typically indicative, even though it's intangible.

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Speaker 10: And now you combine that with physical evidence signs of abuse,

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Speaker 10: black eyes, I think law enforcement's going to be looking

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Speaker 10: very hard at his electronic devices, his history as bank accounts,

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Speaker 10: and again, if it were me, I'd be looking at

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Speaker 10: other victims that were either of similar stature, similar infirmity,

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Speaker 10: that may have gone missing, victims of abuse that didn't

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Speaker 10: report it in his area, because wouldn't surprise me if

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Speaker 10: we find other victims.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, because if he's living a double life, how do

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Speaker 1: I know it's a not a triple life or even worse?

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Speaker 7: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Right, yeah, I even thought of that, John Cardillo, you know,

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Speaker 1: another issue straight out to Dave matt crimeonline dot Com

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Speaker 1: investigative reporter, how was Jamie's body sound?

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Speaker 6: It was actually found out in the desert by a

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Speaker 6: man who was out on a hike with his two

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Speaker 6: young sons. They had pulled off they were looking at

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Speaker 6: old train engines and pulled off onto an old dirt

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Speaker 6: road out in the middle of nowhere, and one of

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Speaker 6: his older sons actually saw something in the distance that

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Speaker 6: intrigued them and it ended up being what appears to

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Speaker 6: be because she hasn't been positively identified yet, but appeared

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Speaker 6: to be the body of Jamie.

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Speaker 1: What I know is, like Dave MATC just told us,

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Speaker 1: a man was out hiking with his boys and he

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Speaker 1: says that the boys saw something in the distance, but

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Speaker 1: they didn't know what it was, so he the dad

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Speaker 1: Linso tells the boys to get back in the truck,

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Speaker 1: and he went to investigate. He finds a body and

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Speaker 1: immediately calls the Lincoln County Sheriff's department. He says, at

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Speaker 1: first he thought it was a child's body because the

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Speaker 1: body was so tiny. And this is very probative or

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Speaker 1: proved something to me. You know, sometimes I see a

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Speaker 1: fact and I don't know exactly what it's telling me about.

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Speaker 1: I know that it's probative and will be probative at trial.

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Speaker 1: There were no clothes on the body and no clothes

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Speaker 1: to be found anywhere nearby, so her attack or her

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Speaker 1: killer either raped her or had sex with her and

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Speaker 1: left her that way, naked and tied to a post

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Speaker 1: in the desert with a duct tape over her mouth

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Speaker 1: and knows, or he took her clothing away so her

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Speaker 1: body would not be identified trial fact. Under the law,

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Speaker 1: the state can bring in evidence of what occurred before, during,

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Speaker 1: and after the incident to show frame of mind, course

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Speaker 1: of conduct mo motus operaandi. Neither of those two scenarios

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Speaker 1: reflect well on John Chapman at all. The body, Jamie

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Speaker 1: Feeden was already heavily decomposed and just dumped off like

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Speaker 1: a piece of trash. Police say Chapman asked Jamie to

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Speaker 1: drive to Las Vegas, Nevada for a vacation, then allegedly

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Speaker 1: brings her to the Nevada desert for a photoshoot where

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Speaker 1: he actually tied her up and bound her mouth and nose.

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Speaker 1: After luring her to Vegas for an alleged vacation, he

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Speaker 1: murders her. Chapman then charged with kidnapping and other counts,

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Speaker 1: now murder. What more happened in the Nevada day.

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Speaker 11: According to police, while she was missing, The victim's family

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Speaker 11: says someone reached out to them from her Facebook messenger account,

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Speaker 11: pretending to be the victim. The police sate Chapman was

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Speaker 11: on the other end.

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Speaker 1: Will it be able to be proven at trial that

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Speaker 1: this is Jamie Feeden and that John Chapman murdered her?

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Speaker 2: Big problem?

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Speaker 1: Of course, we all know that a murder case can

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Speaker 1: be proven without a body, but it does present a

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Speaker 1: host of difficulties. I'm Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us. You were just hearing

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Speaker 1: our friends at Channel eleven w p XI. That was

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Speaker 1: Gabrielle de Luca reporting, Oh Man, every time we think

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Speaker 1: we're within reach of enough evidence to charge with murder,

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Speaker 1: another wrinkle appears in the case. How can she be

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Speaker 1: positively identified? To doctor Tim Gallagher, medical examiner for the

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Speaker 1: State of Florida, With her body in such an advanced

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Speaker 1: state of decomposure, how can she be identified?

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Speaker 4: We do have her skeletal remains, and because of her

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Speaker 4: medical condition, it's more than likely that she has X

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Speaker 4: rays that were taken out a doctor's office that we

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Speaker 4: can use to compare against the remains to see what

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Speaker 4: her developmental abnormalities are. You know, she does have a

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Speaker 4: Vader syndrome which has very distinct bone patterns, and I'm

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Speaker 4: sure that we could positively identify her using X rays

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Speaker 4: from her doctor's office and comparing those against the bony remains.

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Speaker 1: Well, what about her dental records.

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Speaker 4: We can also use that as a supplemental form of

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Speaker 4: identification as well. Between the two and the circumstances that

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Speaker 4: surround her being there, positive identification is certainly within the

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Speaker 4: realm of possibility.

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Speaker 1: And I'm going to circle back to John Cardillo about

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Speaker 1: her missing clothing. But doctor Tim Gallagher explain how specific

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Speaker 1: dental records can be unique to one individual like a thing.

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Speaker 4: Oh, absolutely it can, especially when there are dental restorations,

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Speaker 4: meaning some of the cavities have been filled with an amalgam,

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Speaker 4: some of the orthodonic work may still be in place.

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Speaker 4: We can use distinct and individualized characters of the person's

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Speaker 4: dental X rays to compare against the dental work that

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Speaker 4: they received. Additionally, gaps in the teeth or root patterns

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Speaker 4: that are the tooth that are below the gum line

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Speaker 4: are very distinctive individual to individual, and we could use

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Speaker 4: those dental records to compare and find the identification of

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Speaker 4: the person.

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Speaker 2: What does it say to you?

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Speaker 1: John Cardillo, host America, talks on News Next TV former

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Speaker 1: NYPD that all of our clothing was missing.

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Speaker 10: Well, one of the easiest ways to identify someone, right,

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Speaker 10: I mean, if you take the clothing, you can compare

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Speaker 10: it to maybe a photo that a victim posted to

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Speaker 10: social media the day before they went missing, a photo

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Speaker 10: a friend took of them. Family members would have made

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Speaker 10: maybe the mom or the dad says, oh yep, that

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Speaker 10: was her favorite church.

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Speaker 1: You loved that.

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Speaker 10: I bought it for her last Christmas, that's definitely hers.

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Speaker 10: And in her case, because of her condition Vader syndrome

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Speaker 10: and her stature, her clothing would have been very unique,

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Speaker 10: potentially child's clothing. So if you had those photos of

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Speaker 10: the clothing the day before or day that she disappeared

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Speaker 10: on social media on a cell phone, or the family

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Speaker 10: friends saying Yep, that's definitely hers. I had to buy

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Speaker 10: it for her. In the child section, you've got a

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Speaker 10: pretty key piece of evidence for identification, So removing them

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Speaker 10: certainly indicates that someone didn't want her to be identified

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Speaker 10: if she was found.

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Speaker 2: What do you make of it?

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Speaker 1: Wendy Patcheck, California prosecutor and author of Red Flag.

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Speaker 8: I'm just sort of adding to what's already been said.

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Speaker 8: You can get rid of the clothes, but you cannot

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Speaker 8: always get rid of what the remains tell you about

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Speaker 8: whose body this is, and particularly when you have these

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Speaker 8: unique features as we've been discussing. Of course, nobody wants

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Speaker 8: to jump to conclusions or reach them prematurely, but Nancy

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Speaker 8: is certainly back to one of the things you said earlier.

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Speaker 8: When it comes to pruiting a murder, we always like

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Speaker 8: to say we don't want to be callous about it,

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Speaker 8: but no body, no problem in terms of reaching a verdict,

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Speaker 8: but it has to proceed very differently the circumstances surrounding

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Speaker 8: why we know, even if we hadn't found a body

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Speaker 8: in this case, that's not to say a murder can't

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Speaker 8: be proven here. It is a lot more, is a

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Speaker 8: lot easier. And not only do we have the kind

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Speaker 8: of unique features we can match up the fact that

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Speaker 8: this man shows this particular woman, John talks about looking

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Speaker 8: for similar victims, one of the things we may find

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Speaker 8: in common is vulnerability. The vulnerability, the exploitation that took

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Speaker 8: place here. You know, this is one we also don't

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Speaker 8: need to prove motive, but motives going to matter in

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Speaker 8: a case like this, and everything we've been talking about

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Speaker 8: are just more of the things that the prosecutors are

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Speaker 8: going to get in line in getting this case ready

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Speaker 8: to go to which you're adding additional charges.

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Speaker 1: Well, here's another piece of evidence. Apparently even after she

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Speaker 1: goes missing, she is still continuing to Facebook.

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Speaker 5: Listen, we're back at the alleged victims Bethel Park home,

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Speaker 5: searching for more evidence. Police say the victim's uncle was

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Speaker 5: getting Facebook messages purporting to be her, but which we're

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Speaker 5: giving incorrect answers to questions.

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Speaker 12: But we don't believe that was in fact her. We

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Speaker 12: believe was mister Chapman posing as her.

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Speaker 5: The chief says, the investigation is continuing here and in Nevada.

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Speaker 12: What he has said that is in fact true, and

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Speaker 12: we're gonna have to see if we can find Jamie

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Speaker 12: either living or deceased, and we're hoping that there's still

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Speaker 12: a ray of hope that she is alive and we

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Speaker 12: can bring her back home safely.

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Speaker 1: You're hearing our friends at w t AE needs for

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Speaker 1: that was reporter Bob Mayo. You're also hearing Police Chief

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Speaker 1: Timothy O'Connor, what more do you need for Pete's sake?

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Speaker 1: Who would go on her Facebook and pretend to be her?

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Speaker 1: And I've got the Facebook postings? This is Jamie the

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Speaker 1: missing woman. H question to Jamie, did I miss something?

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Speaker 1: Did you and John break up? Someone wrote her? She

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Speaker 1: writes back, Yeah, but we're still friends. What happened? She writes,

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Speaker 1: Apparently I was too clinging and he couldn't take it.

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Speaker 1: Thinking back, maybe I was and I did not try

436
00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:20,760
Speaker 1: to be. But it's hard when I care so much question.

437
00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:25,000
Speaker 1: I feel you, girl, She responds. It was my idea

438
00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:26,760
Speaker 1: to be friends because I didn't want us to hate

439
00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:30,560
Speaker 1: each other. My family was also an issue as well.

440
00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:35,480
Speaker 1: Another question, when's John's birthday? That's an odd question. Have

441
00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:39,480
Speaker 1: you tried asking him? Maybe, try getting to know him?

442
00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:40,440
Speaker 2: Answer?

443
00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:44,119
Speaker 1: No, lol, I just saw a John Chapman in the

444
00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:46,920
Speaker 1: paper with a birthday. Didn't know if it was him, lol.

445
00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:52,600
Speaker 1: She allegedly writes back, Honestly, I'm not sure about John's birthday.

446
00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:55,720
Speaker 1: We dated, but I didn't feel he was quote the one,

447
00:25:55,840 --> 00:25:58,119
Speaker 1: and there was a lot I didn't know about him.

448
00:25:58,520 --> 00:26:01,160
Speaker 1: He has a history, I know that, but I never

449
00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:04,639
Speaker 1: felt unsafe around him, and he was always upfront about

450
00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:05,199
Speaker 1: his past.

451
00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:16,440
Speaker 2: Really crime stories with Nancy Grace.

452
00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:25,719
Speaker 1: A Pennsylvania man, John Matthew Chapman now gets life behind

453
00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:30,640
Speaker 1: bars for murdering a woman found in the Nevada desert. Apparently,

454
00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:34,800
Speaker 1: the wife, Maureene Chapman, practically a bride herself, had no

455
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:38,840
Speaker 1: idea of her husband's cheating until he called her from

456
00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:42,920
Speaker 1: the Bethel Park Police Department. Wife Maureene said Chapman told

457
00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:45,840
Speaker 1: her he was taking her truck for a work trip

458
00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:50,800
Speaker 1: in Vegas after visiting relatives in Bethel Park. The truck

459
00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:55,920
Speaker 1: is now considered key evidence in a murder. Looking at

460
00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:59,120
Speaker 1: his Facebook page, is bio reads I'm a thirty nine

461
00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:02,439
Speaker 1: year old single from Pennsylvania. I've lived here most of

462
00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:06,880
Speaker 1: my life. I'm always trying to meet new and interesting people. Well,

463
00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:09,359
Speaker 1: you're not going to meet them out in the middle

464
00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:10,120
Speaker 1: of the desert.

465
00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:11,840
Speaker 2: This guy is a killer.

466
00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:17,000
Speaker 1: All romantic relationship with now wife Maureen is hidden when

467
00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:22,320
Speaker 1: he comments looking good sis under his wife's profile picture

468
00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:25,639
Speaker 1: and later lists his wife as his sister.

469
00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:28,440
Speaker 2: The wife now says, quote.

470
00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:32,440
Speaker 1: It's sick. It's really sick. I just want the truth

471
00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:35,880
Speaker 1: as to what happened. I feel I'm owed that, you're

472
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:41,080
Speaker 1: owed that. What about Jamie's family? She's dead. Friends weighing in,

473
00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:45,399
Speaker 1: claiming that no one had any idea Chapman was married.

474
00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:47,840
Speaker 1: You know, at this point, I'd be more concerned about

475
00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:49,720
Speaker 1: the murder than the two timing.

476
00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:51,520
Speaker 2: What more do we know?

477
00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:54,879
Speaker 3: His stepmom told me he's married to another woman and

478
00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:57,520
Speaker 3: has been for about a year. The family says they

479
00:27:57,560 --> 00:28:00,800
Speaker 3: thought John Chapman was going to work for a trip

480
00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:03,879
Speaker 3: to Las Vegas, but that wasn't the case. According to police,

481
00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:06,560
Speaker 3: Chapman's family told me he met Jamie Fieden at either

482
00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:09,040
Speaker 3: a high school or a college for students with special

483
00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:11,720
Speaker 3: educational needs, and that he often has a lot of

484
00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:14,960
Speaker 3: close friends. Police a Chapman would often stay at Pheeden's

485
00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:18,399
Speaker 3: Bethel Park town home. Chapman's family also tells me he

486
00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:21,000
Speaker 3: was living with his wife and his mom in Oakmont

487
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:23,680
Speaker 3: through the summer, and everything seemed to be fine until

488
00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:26,280
Speaker 3: they got a phone call from police a few hours ago.

489
00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:30,360
Speaker 13: What went through my mind is just what a horribly

490
00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:34,720
Speaker 13: sad tragedy. You know, we had heard that he had

491
00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:37,280
Speaker 13: gone to Las Vegas. He was going there for he said,

492
00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:39,560
Speaker 13: for a work convention. So I think at this point

493
00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:42,840
Speaker 13: we're all just in shock. It's just kind of you know,

494
00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:45,400
Speaker 13: it's it's just what you know. It doesn't seem like

495
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:45,880
Speaker 13: it's real.

496
00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:52,400
Speaker 1: A work convention, man, that is so tired a work convention.

497
00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:54,920
Speaker 1: You were just hearing from our friends at Channel eleven

498
00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:59,640
Speaker 1: wp XI, that was Amy Hood at reporting Wow and

499
00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:03,920
Speaker 1: heard the voice of Pamela Chapman. This guy had really

500
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:07,600
Speaker 1: snowed everybody. But I want to circle back to Bethany Marshall,

501
00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:14,320
Speaker 1: psychoanalyst in Hollywood, Bethany, she need this guy, Jamie need

502
00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:18,320
Speaker 1: John Chapman since they were in high school. But these

503
00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:22,800
Speaker 1: Facebook posting is these text responses. Honestly, I'm not sure

504
00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:26,400
Speaker 1: about his birthday. We dated, but I didn't really know

505
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:27,400
Speaker 1: that much about him.

506
00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:30,600
Speaker 7: What Nancy, the fact that he's on her Facebook. Not

507
00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:32,840
Speaker 7: only is he trying to throw people off the trail,

508
00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:36,560
Speaker 7: but this tells me that he has infiltrated every part

509
00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:39,080
Speaker 7: of this victim's life. He men are at a school

510
00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:42,120
Speaker 7: for people with disabilities. He doesn't have a disability, so

511
00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:46,640
Speaker 7: that tells me he specifically chose her because of her disability.

512
00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:50,240
Speaker 7: People with disabilities tend to be more isolated. They're vulnerable,

513
00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:52,800
Speaker 7: they have fewer friends, they have less access to the

514
00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:56,720
Speaker 7: justice system. They are more willing to be pliable to

515
00:29:56,760 --> 00:29:59,840
Speaker 7: give their money away, to do anything to keep me

516
00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:02,920
Speaker 7: the love of the love objects, so he targeted her.

517
00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:06,400
Speaker 7: He had her under his firm control. One of the

518
00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:09,600
Speaker 7: reasons I believe she didn't have clothing on. According to

519
00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:12,160
Speaker 7: one report, he told her that they were going to

520
00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:16,920
Speaker 7: like a bondage and discipline photo shoot in the desert,

521
00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:19,600
Speaker 7: so he may have taken her clothes off before he

522
00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:22,120
Speaker 7: tied her to that poll, and the poor little thing

523
00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:24,560
Speaker 7: may have thought that she was, you know, sexy, and

524
00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:27,120
Speaker 7: he wanted her and he was taking pictures of her.

525
00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:31,239
Speaker 7: But not only that, then he poses as her on

526
00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:35,200
Speaker 7: her Facebook account, which tells me that he also believed

527
00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:38,280
Speaker 7: that she belonged to him, that she was his possession,

528
00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:41,640
Speaker 7: He could do whatever he liked with her body, her money,

529
00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:45,840
Speaker 7: her home, he stayed there, with her social media, that

530
00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:49,320
Speaker 7: it all belonged to him, including her life.

531
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:54,720
Speaker 1: To John Cardillo, former NYPD, how do you trace from

532
00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:56,480
Speaker 1: where these messages came?

533
00:30:56,640 --> 00:30:58,840
Speaker 10: Oh, there are several ways you can do it. You can,

534
00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:01,760
Speaker 10: obviously you can locate IP address, You can ping his

535
00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:04,880
Speaker 10: cell phone. You can uh look and see if the

536
00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:08,840
Speaker 10: IP was coordinating with where his vehicle was, if you

537
00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:11,280
Speaker 10: can get a subpoena for the GPS on his car.

538
00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:12,680
Speaker 12: I mean, law enforcement.

539
00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:15,920
Speaker 10: Today, it's it's it's much easier to track your electronic

540
00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:19,360
Speaker 10: footprint in many respects than if you completely went offline,

541
00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:22,760
Speaker 10: went totally analog, and we're just walking around without any device.

542
00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:26,200
Speaker 10: So really you're you're you're a walking home beacon as

543
00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:27,800
Speaker 10: long as you've got a cell phone on you, and

544
00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:30,240
Speaker 10: if you've got any of the laptops that have wireless.

545
00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:32,480
Speaker 1: You know, it's even freak here out to Crime online

546
00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:37,120
Speaker 1: dot Com investigative reporter Dave Mack, a friend of Jamie's

547
00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:41,800
Speaker 1: got very suspicious and she's the one posing these questions

548
00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:44,560
Speaker 1: and he's giving some of the wrong answers. She got

549
00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:50,760
Speaker 1: very apprehensive about Chapman because he friended her the friend

550
00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:56,560
Speaker 1: on Facebook and began commenting on her photos like a

551
00:31:56,600 --> 00:32:00,760
Speaker 1: beautiful rose for a very beautiful woman. Of my husband

552
00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:06,960
Speaker 1: David Lynch sent a picture of a rose or commented

553
00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:10,000
Speaker 1: on a rose, A beautiful rose for a beautiful woman.

554
00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:13,240
Speaker 1: And it wasn't to me, you know, all h E

555
00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:17,640
Speaker 1: l would break loose. Dave Matt tell me about these postings.

556
00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:21,120
Speaker 1: How dare he friend her friend after he's killed her.

557
00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:23,280
Speaker 1: He's basically coming on to her online.

558
00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:25,560
Speaker 6: I think he was the ultimate con man, trying to

559
00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:28,680
Speaker 6: cover his tracks by trying to get this woman who

560
00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:30,440
Speaker 6: did not like him, but trying to get her to

561
00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:33,160
Speaker 6: warm up to him to continue his con But there's

562
00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:36,040
Speaker 6: something else very interesting about his pattern over the years.

563
00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:38,760
Speaker 6: In his first marriage, where he was married for seven years,

564
00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:43,320
Speaker 6: he and that wife stayed with Jamie Pheden at some

565
00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:47,600
Speaker 6: point during the marriage, and Chapman told his wife to

566
00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:51,760
Speaker 6: pretend that she was his sister so they could stay there.

567
00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:55,440
Speaker 6: And that wife, Tammy, said that she that Chapman bled

568
00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:59,960
Speaker 6: Jamie Drive every penny she had. Then after the divorce,

569
00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:04,120
Speaker 6: she found a number of zip block baggies that Chapman

570
00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:09,000
Speaker 6: had that had girls panties in these baggies with the

571
00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:11,920
Speaker 6: a name written on the baggie. And the question is

572
00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:15,800
Speaker 6: how many women did he possibly kill?

573
00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:19,000
Speaker 1: Okay, that's shedding a whole new light on this, and

574
00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:22,120
Speaker 1: it was mentioned earlier by John Cardillo, who really hit

575
00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:25,120
Speaker 1: the nail on the head. Are there other victims? I

576
00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:26,960
Speaker 1: want you to take a listen to our friends at

577
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:30,880
Speaker 1: channel on eleven WPXI. This is Gabriel Gabrielle de Luca.

578
00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:33,720
Speaker 11: According to the criminal complaint, the suspect bound the victim's

579
00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:36,720
Speaker 11: hands and feet with plastic zip ties and it fixed.

580
00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:37,600
Speaker 2: Her to a signpost.

581
00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:40,040
Speaker 11: He then applied duct tape to her mouth and then

582
00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:42,080
Speaker 11: to her nose until such a time that she was

583
00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:45,560
Speaker 11: unable to breathe. Police say she suffocated, and Chapman then

584
00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:48,240
Speaker 11: untied her, removed the tape in her clothing, and left

585
00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:51,360
Speaker 11: her there. According to detectives in Las Vegas. They did

586
00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:54,080
Speaker 11: locate a body that fits many of the unique characteristics

587
00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:54,680
Speaker 11: of Jamie.

588
00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:57,840
Speaker 12: Finding a body, you're going to have to do your

589
00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:01,720
Speaker 12: due diligence to make sure that's the exact So until

590
00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:06,600
Speaker 12: we receive actual confirmation that they have found her, I mean,

591
00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:10,480
Speaker 12: there's always a possibility that she's still alive someone out there,

592
00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:11,600
Speaker 12: and we'd like to bring her home.

593
00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:18,400
Speaker 1: Wendy Patrick, This woman, Jamie Feden, has been described as sweet, gentle,

594
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:23,520
Speaker 1: loving soul taken advantage of by a predator, and over

595
00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:27,640
Speaker 1: all the years I've prosecuted and covered crimes, it just

596
00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:31,280
Speaker 1: hurts me that the most tender and the most vulnerable

597
00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:33,880
Speaker 1: people are the ones that become victims.

598
00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:34,440
Speaker 12: Matthew.

599
00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:37,520
Speaker 8: It's just heartbreaking. And part of the reason that these

600
00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:39,640
Speaker 8: types of things happen, as you and I and John

601
00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:43,239
Speaker 8: and doctor Marshall have no doubt always encountered, is that

602
00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:48,360
Speaker 8: people that are less than the absolute physical ideal, less

603
00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:50,960
Speaker 8: than the kind of intelligence most people would want, are

604
00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:55,120
Speaker 8: uniquely susceptible to targeted attention. They're not used to receiving

605
00:34:55,200 --> 00:34:58,759
Speaker 8: flattery or sexual attention of any kind, and they are

606
00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:02,799
Speaker 8: also uniquelyvulnerable for exactly that reason. That's just what John

607
00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:06,200
Speaker 8: Cardillo said earlier, that maybe this is somebody who does

608
00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:10,560
Speaker 8: target this pool of individuals. And Dave Mack really kind

609
00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:12,879
Speaker 8: of shed the light on what we've learned so far

610
00:35:13,239 --> 00:35:15,960
Speaker 8: that brings it full circle, Nancy, to make it seem

611
00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:19,000
Speaker 8: like this fits a profile of that kind of a man.

612
00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:20,839
Speaker 8: And I would even add that what you pointed out

613
00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:24,000
Speaker 8: about friending the friends of the victim also not only

614
00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:27,640
Speaker 8: fits that profile, but also serves to further the narrative

615
00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:30,080
Speaker 8: of this victum, somehow is still alive.

616
00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:34,160
Speaker 1: We now know there acclaims Chapman mistreated Jamie, including using

617
00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:38,120
Speaker 1: her for money, and there was an incident when Jamie

618
00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:41,400
Speaker 1: arrived to a bar with Chapman with two black eyes.

619
00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:46,040
Speaker 1: It goes on and on with this guy, John Matthew

620
00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:55,360
Speaker 1: Chapman wrought in hell after a lifetime behind bars. Nancy

621
00:35:55,400 --> 00:36:04,320
Speaker 1: Gray signing off goodbye friends,