Speaker 1: America has just witnessed a truly strange encounter. Who became
Speaker 1: the first American to meet with the new leader of
Speaker 1: North Korea, the wild child of basketball, Dennis Rodman.
Speaker 2: Rights It's twenty thirteen and North Korean dictator Kim Jong
Speaker 2: un is making headlines all over the world for paying
Speaker 2: big bucks hiring NBA superstar Dennis Rodman to come visit
Speaker 2: him well.
Speaker 3: One of the few things known about the secretive Kim's
Speaker 3: private life from his days as a student at a
Speaker 3: Swiss boarding school is that he was an NBA nut,
Speaker 3: especially big on Rodman's old team.
Speaker 4: The Bulls.
Speaker 2: Shockingly, Dennis Rodman seems to publicly take a liking to
Speaker 2: Kim Jong un, a ruthless dictator with a reputation for
Speaker 2: brutalizing his own people. The two men actually become friends.
Speaker 5: We laugh, We sink karaoke, We do a lot of
Speaker 5: cool things together.
Speaker 2: Dennis Rodman is reportedly making upwards of two hundred thousand
Speaker 2: dollars for visiting North Korea, but he has no idea
Speaker 2: that the money Kim Jong un is paying him to
Speaker 2: be there is being stolen from him right before his
Speaker 2: very eyes by a true queen of the Khan in
Speaker 2: every sense of the word. You see, Dennis Rodman has
Speaker 2: invited a crafty fox into his financial henhouse, an inveterate
Speaker 2: con artist, a tall, blonde, vivacious woman who's got a
Speaker 2: grift that's so sophisticated and so believable. It takes Dennis
Speaker 2: Rodman years to figure out what's going on, and even
Speaker 2: when he does, he just can't bring himself to let
Speaker 2: her go. I'm Jonathan Walton, and this is Queen of
Speaker 2: the Khan Season five, The Athlete Whisperer, Episode one, call
Speaker 2: me Roquelle. He is a marketable condition and Ron by
Speaker 2: this season has become the most prolific player off the
Speaker 2: bars in two decades.
Speaker 4: Every time Dennis Rodman, he was like a rock star.
Speaker 4: He was just the epitome of hard work and hustle
Speaker 4: on the basketball court.
Speaker 2: Full confession here, I know more about nuclear fusion than
Speaker 2: I do about basketball or really any kind of sports.
Speaker 4: Sports is a religion, man, and these people are the
Speaker 4: figureheads of this religion.
Speaker 2: My buddy, Evan Goldstein, on the other hand, is an oracle.
Speaker 2: He's also a huge Dennis Rodman fan, one of.
Speaker 4: The greatest rebounders in NBA, history.
Speaker 2: What's a rebounder?
Speaker 4: Rebounder, It's just basically means when someone shoots the ball
Speaker 4: and they miss and it bounces off the rim and
Speaker 4: the person that catches it, that's a rebound.
Speaker 2: So was he the person who would catch it? Yes,
Speaker 2: So Dennis Rodman would catch it and what score?
Speaker 4: Pass it or score? He really had it down to
Speaker 4: a science, and he would study how the ball would
Speaker 4: bounce off the rim to know where to position himself
Speaker 4: under the basket to get it. And he was the
Speaker 4: guy that would dive for balls and hustle. He had
Speaker 4: this kind of signature way of doing it where he
Speaker 4: would jump up catch the ball. He would flare his
Speaker 4: legs out and kind of like a like a half split,
Speaker 4: and people would literally cheer.
Speaker 2: He turns it into a performance. It sounds like I
Speaker 2: thought he could he could score a lot.
Speaker 4: Yeah, like he could score, but he might have ten
Speaker 4: points in a whole game where it's like Michael Jordan
Speaker 4: have forty, so Michael.
Speaker 2: Jordan can score. He was the score Okay, that's his thing.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Dennis Rodman did the dirty work. He helped the
Speaker 4: team win by getting the ball before the other team.
Speaker 2: You blew my mind. Today. I had no idea what
Speaker 2: a rebounder was.
Speaker 4: I love that. That's the thing.
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't know, like, I don't know. I'm
Speaker 2: a gig guy. I don't know anything sports.
Speaker 4: Yeah. No, if anyone asked you, what was Bernadette Peters
Speaker 4: doing in the you know, early two thousands, you you're
Speaker 4: their man.
Speaker 2: I think she was the Witch and into the Woods.
Speaker 2: She was the first lage like that might have been
Speaker 2: the late nineties, though she was also dot in Sun
Speaker 2: in the Park with Georgia, a Sondheim musical about George
Speaker 2: Sarat with George. But enough about sondheime. I just assumed
Speaker 2: you were never into sports, because oh, yeah, growing up
Speaker 2: I liked sports. You and I are like best friends. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and we've never talked sports.
Speaker 4: No, But like, growing up, I played basketball.
Speaker 2: What position were you on the basketball?
Speaker 4: I was a forward, so the same position as Dennis Rodman.
Speaker 2: Oh, but he was a rebounder.
Speaker 4: Oh, Jonathan, let's talk more Sondheim.
Speaker 2: But really, Dennis Rodman was to the NBA what bernand
Speaker 2: At Peters was to any Stephen Sondheim production. She was
Speaker 2: in a key player, though by twenty thirteen, Rodman is
Speaker 2: comfortably retired from the NBA for more than a decade
Speaker 2: after reportedly earning upwards of twenty seven million dollars for
Speaker 2: playing basketball and many millions more in endorsement deals with
Speaker 2: brands like Nike and Coca Cola. He goes on to
Speaker 2: do movies and TV shows.
Speaker 6: Well He's welcome, Dennis Rodman.
Speaker 2: And in twenty thirteen, he even does a season of
Speaker 2: Celebrity Apprentice for NBC with you know who, Dennis, You're fired.
Speaker 4: Part of the mystique that fed into Dennis Rodman. He
Speaker 4: was just kind of a badass. He's like a bad boy.
Speaker 4: He was just kind of fun to watch, partying, fall down, drunk,
Speaker 4: taking pictures at clubs with you know, amazing women. And
Speaker 4: as a young boy or a young man, you know
Speaker 4: that's pretty Uh.
Speaker 2: You looked up to him.
Speaker 4: That's pretty cool.
Speaker 2: You wanted to be like Dennis Rodman. Yeah. Why do
Speaker 2: they call him the worm?
Speaker 4: I would just assume based on because he was never
Speaker 4: necessarily the biggest guy on the court. There are people
Speaker 4: that would tower above him, but he would outrebound them.
Speaker 4: And you know, he had kind of a nitty gritty
Speaker 4: way of flex so kind of squirm. He could kind
Speaker 4: of get past people. He could flex and bend and
Speaker 4: kind of get around people and like you just kind
Speaker 4: of worm in there.
Speaker 2: So I have googled, and according to Google, his mom
Speaker 2: and his sisters gave him the name the Worm as
Speaker 2: a kid because when he would play pinball, he would
Speaker 2: squirm like a worm and they called him but kind
Speaker 2: of similar to what you're saying, but post NBA, the
Speaker 2: Worm's bread and butter comes from doing lucrative public appearances
Speaker 2: and he makes a lot of money. According to his
Speaker 2: former manager, he's.
Speaker 7: One of the most recognizable people in the world. Even
Speaker 7: to this day, he makes upwards of a million dollars
Speaker 7: a year. He hasn't played basketball in almost twenty years.
Speaker 2: But that North Korean public appearance in twenty thirteen is
Speaker 2: fraud with peril for Dennis Rodman.
Speaker 7: When I first heard about the deal, I was against it.
Speaker 7: I just thought that Dennis getting mixed up with a
Speaker 7: dictator in North Korea was just a terrible, terrible, terrible idea.
Speaker 7: I fought at every step of the way. And how
Speaker 7: the deal actually came around was that the North Koreans
Speaker 7: originally were trying to put on some sort of basketball
Speaker 7: exhibition and they reached out to Michael Jordan, and Michael
Speaker 7: Jordan turned them down. So when Michael Jordan turned them down,
Speaker 7: they were like, Okay, well what about Dennis Rodman. And
Speaker 7: that's when they first reached out to us. And if
Speaker 7: you go back, you can find online there's a picture
Speaker 7: of Kim Jong um when he's like a teenager and
Speaker 7: he's playing basket ketball. He's wearing a Dennis Rodman jersey.
Speaker 2: I actually found that picture and I'm posting it at
Speaker 2: Queen of the Khan on Instagram, so you can see
Speaker 2: what a teenage Kim jong un looks like in a
Speaker 2: Rodman jersey. For Dennis, though, cozying up to a dictator
Speaker 2: is not exactly good for his career.
Speaker 7: The death threats and the messages on social media, it
Speaker 7: was overwhelming ninety nine one against him. They were absolutely vicious,
Speaker 7: calling him a trader to his country, calling him a communist.
Speaker 7: He should leave America, don't ever come back like it
Speaker 7: was bad.
Speaker 2: But four years earlier, in two thousand and nine, Dennis
Speaker 2: Rodman and his entourage are in Miami on Trendy South
Speaker 2: Beach attending the opening of Miami Dolphins running back Ricky
Speaker 2: Williams new restaurant when all of a sudden, a stunningly
Speaker 2: dressed woman shows up and starts mingling, expertly, working her
Speaker 2: way through the crowd like a professional talk show host.
Speaker 2: She's got the gift of gab, and everyone seems to
Speaker 2: know her and love her. It's a moment Dennis Rodman's
Speaker 2: bodyguard will never forget, because he wasn't sure she belonged
Speaker 2: there at first.
Speaker 8: She was in a scene in Miami that you couldn't
Speaker 8: afford to be in, like invite only, Like, how the
Speaker 8: hell was she next to us?
Speaker 2: Her name is Peggy Fulford aka Peggy King, Peggy Barrard,
Speaker 2: Peggy Simpson, Peggy Rivers, Devon Cole. Oh, there are a
Speaker 2: bunch of other aliases she uses too.
Speaker 9: She mentioned to us to call her rockl.
Speaker 2: That's Sean tel Cohen, Peggy's former assistant.
Speaker 9: I had a best friend in town from San Diego,
Speaker 9: And when Peggy walked in, she's like, would you guys
Speaker 9: like to go out with me later? And we're kind
Speaker 9: of just like what And she's like, yeah, come here,
Speaker 9: hang out. You know your friends in town, blah blah blah.
Speaker 9: And we started talking small talk, and then she mentioned
Speaker 9: to us.
Speaker 10: When we go out, just call me Raquel.
Speaker 2: And that is the first red flag. Something's up, something big.
Speaker 2: Something we'll explain after this break. Welcome back to Queen
Speaker 2: of the Khan. Peggy's former assistant, Sean tel Cohen is
Speaker 2: noticing something strange about Peggy that won't make any sense
Speaker 2: until years later.
Speaker 9: She mentioned to us that when we go out, to
Speaker 9: call her Roquel, and me and my best friend at
Speaker 9: the time just started.
Speaker 2: Laughing and we're like, call her Roquel.
Speaker 9: Yeah, what do you mean, call you Raquel? And she's like, yeah,
Speaker 9: that's my name, you know, when I go out because
Speaker 9: I don't want people in my business. Blah blah blah.
Speaker 9: We kind of thought it was weird, but we just
Speaker 9: laughed it off, like, you know, people do change their
Speaker 9: names when they go to the clubs, and you know
Speaker 9: stuff like that. You're just giving fake names and things
Speaker 9: like that. But we didn't really think about it until
Speaker 9: later on in life and was like, oh, wow, first
Speaker 9: red sign.
Speaker 2: That was a huge red flag, huge red sign. Yeah, yes,
Speaker 2: oh my god, call me Roquel, all me Raquel? How
Speaker 2: effing bizarre whatever you call her, though, she is a
Speaker 2: sight to behole. That night on South beach back in
Speaker 2: two thousand and nine. At fifty one years old, she
Speaker 2: could easily pass for being in her late thirties. She's
Speaker 2: got long blonde hair, sparkling eyes, and electrifying charm and
Speaker 2: charisma oozing from every pore. Dennis Rodman's bodyguard remembers her, Well.
Speaker 8: She looked like a million bucks. She was driving the
Speaker 8: right car. Well, she was driven in the right car.
Speaker 8: She was wearing the right jewelry, had the right clothes on.
Speaker 8: The other players that I knew in Miami at the
Speaker 8: time were talking to her.
Speaker 4: Like to kind of make friends. I think with like famous.
Speaker 2: People, my buddy Evan Goldstein.
Speaker 4: Again, I think you kind of have to operate on
Speaker 4: their level.
Speaker 2: You know, if you have to like put on a
Speaker 2: show for them.
Speaker 4: Yeah, like you have to impress them and to be
Speaker 4: able to kind of weave your way into their good graces.
Speaker 4: I feel like you have to have a little something extra.
Speaker 2: I agree one thousand percent, and she did have a
Speaker 2: little something extra. But let's not downplay the effect a
Speaker 2: beautiful woman has. Raisa, Yeah, you're insane.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you're right.
Speaker 2: I'll tell you a funny story. So I was nineteen
Speaker 2: years old. I'm not as Evan will attest, conventionally attractive
Speaker 2: by Western societal snaw. I'm pretty on the inside, but
Speaker 2: my family I have a lot of hot cousins and niece.
Speaker 2: So I'm nineteen years old walking out of this yogurt
Speaker 2: shop in Miami with my cousin who's also nineteen or twenty.
Speaker 2: She's breathtakingly beautiful, and all of a sudden you hear
Speaker 2: like a screech of a car, this white Porsche stop.
Speaker 2: This guy in a suit jumps out, runs up to
Speaker 2: my cousins, like, I just have to tell you, you're
Speaker 2: the most beautiful thing I've ever seen in my life.
Speaker 2: I'm an attorney. Is this your boyfriend? Points to me,
Speaker 2: and she's like, no, it's my cousin. I'm an attorney,
Speaker 2: and if you ever need anything, here's my card. I
Speaker 2: would love to take you to dinner. And then she
Speaker 2: was stunned, didn't know how to react. He just hops
Speaker 2: back into his drives away. But what straight guys will
Speaker 2: do in the presence of a beautiful woman, like anything
Speaker 2: and everything and.
Speaker 4: Everything it's a pretty woman has power, oh by a
Speaker 4: million percent.
Speaker 2: And that was Peggy. Peggy was a pretty woman that
Speaker 2: was Peggy's power that night on South Beach, she knowingly
Speaker 2: weaponized her beauty. She showed up to someplace and she
Speaker 2: just wormed her way in and she got Dennis Rodman's attention.
Speaker 11: I mean, she's obviously easy on the eyes.
Speaker 2: That's Ramon Antonio Vargas, a journalist for The Guardian and
Speaker 2: author of the book Family, Gangsters and Champions. He's written
Speaker 2: extensively about Peggy over the years.
Speaker 11: I think she's described herself as creole, right, and she
Speaker 11: certainly has that look right. There's like a certain lego
Speaker 11: of the creole in New Orleans, and when you listen
Speaker 11: to her speak, she certainly fits that bill. She's very
Speaker 11: self assured. She had the story that she was like
Speaker 11: independently successful on Wall Street. She made a fortune in
Speaker 11: hospital deals and land deals, and it's kind of very impressive,
Speaker 11: very beautiful, very appealing. I think a lot of people
Speaker 11: were taken and impressed by her narrative.
Speaker 2: Okay, so picture it a Bomby South Florida night in
Speaker 2: two thousand and nine, a crowded South Beach restaurant. Peggy's
Speaker 2: working the room like a seasoned politician, flashing her pearly whites,
Speaker 2: pressing the flesh and impressing everyone. Dennis Rodman's there with
Speaker 2: his bodyguard, a bodyguard who reports prides himself on never
Speaker 2: standing beside Dennis, never letting onlookers know he's with Dennis,
Speaker 2: or watching out for Dennis, or guarding Dennis in any way.
Speaker 2: He always keeps his distance. But that night on South Beach,
Speaker 2: he slips up and Peggy figures out immediately who Dennis's
Speaker 2: bodyguard is.
Speaker 8: The first interaction I have with her is while I'm
Speaker 8: actually standing with Dennis. That's so, so, so extremely rare.
Speaker 8: And it's a red flag and I missed it.
Speaker 2: Bro yep. Schmoozing a celebrity's bodyguard is a huge red
Speaker 2: flag in the world of protecting famous people. But Peggy
Speaker 2: effortlessly charms both men all evening Dennis Rodman and his bodyguard,
Speaker 2: and after they learn she's a big time financial advisor
Speaker 2: for pro athletes, they let their guard down. She's actually
Speaker 2: managing the money for Miami Dolphins running back Ricky Williams.
Speaker 2: At that point, the guy whose restaurant opening Rodman and
Speaker 2: his bodyguard are attending that night.
Speaker 8: She came in, very soft, very welcoming. If you need anything,
Speaker 8: you call me.
Speaker 2: First, but now looking back, it appears Peggy had big
Speaker 2: plans for Dennis Rodman and that chance encounter might have
Speaker 2: actually been planned.
Speaker 4: It takes more than luck to be a con artist.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I spoke to Michelle Rodman, Dennis Rodman's ex wife.
Speaker 2: People have called her Michelle Moyer, but she told me
Speaker 2: I'm Michelle Rodman, like she doesn't like people changing her
Speaker 2: name to her maiden name. And it reminds me of
Speaker 2: what my mom did, because my mom kept Walton because
Speaker 2: it was my dad's name, who my dad wasn't in
Speaker 2: my life, suck up, but my mom felt, I want
Speaker 2: to match my kids, so we're a family still, So
Speaker 2: my mom.
Speaker 4: Kept Walton, So that makes sense.
Speaker 2: So Michelle Rodman did the same thing, she told me,
Speaker 2: because she wanted to match with her kids. And she
Speaker 2: says she's always getting criticized, like why are you still
Speaker 2: trying to hang onto Rodman's name, And she's like, no,
Speaker 2: it's I want to have the same thing was my kids,
Speaker 2: because we're a family.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So I talked to Michelle Rodman. I scheduled an interview
Speaker 2: with her. She was in Then the next day she
Speaker 2: texts me the day before the end She's like, can
Speaker 2: I do it another day at another place. I'm like, sure, sure,
Speaker 2: that's fine, we can do that. And then on the
Speaker 2: interview day, she texted me, you know what, I talked
Speaker 2: to her with my kids. I don't want to be
Speaker 2: in your podcast. I'm sorry. So I couldn't get an
Speaker 2: interview with her. But I talked to her for like
Speaker 2: a half an hour, and I took copious notes, and
Speaker 2: she explained to me that as fate would have it.
Speaker 2: That night, when Peggy makes a bee line over to
Speaker 2: Dennis Rodman at Ricky Williams Restaurant in South Beach, Dennis
Speaker 2: Rodman's money manager is in rehab. He has like a
Speaker 2: major drug problem and he can't be Dennis Rodman's money
Speaker 2: manager anymore. So Dennis Rodman Lo and Behold is actually
Speaker 2: on the market for a money manager. Oh, enter Peggy.
Speaker 4: I wonder if that was like researched.
Speaker 2: I do believe she knew his money manager was in
Speaker 2: rehab and that was an opportunity for her to get
Speaker 2: into his life and impress him. I think that was calculated.
Speaker 2: And it wasn't long after that restaurant opening on South
Speaker 2: Beach back in two thousand and nine that Peggy signs
Speaker 2: on as Dennis Rodman's new financial manager. At this point
Speaker 2: in his career, he's still got millions of dollars coming
Speaker 2: in from public appearances, from endorsement deals, from doing TV
Speaker 2: shows and movies, and like a lot of celebrities and
Speaker 2: rich people, Dennis doesn't personally handle any of that money himself.
Speaker 2: As his former manager explains.
Speaker 7: You have to understand something. He doesn't pay his own bills.
Speaker 7: He's just very isolated. He's very well managed. He doesn't
Speaker 7: deal with a lot of the day to day Monday
Speaker 7: stuff that you and I and most people will deal with.
Speaker 7: He probably hasn't opened a piece of mail in fifteen
Speaker 7: twenty years. He just doesn't do it. He has people
Speaker 7: to handle that far, and there's accountants and there's people
Speaker 7: that you know, take care of it. He puts that
Speaker 7: trust in his people, and they're supposed to handle it
Speaker 7: for him.
Speaker 2: So Dennis Rodman hires Peggy to run his finances. She's
Speaker 2: supposed to put him on a strict budget, pay his bills,
Speaker 2: pay his taxes, pay his child support, and invest the
Speaker 2: rest of the money he's got coming in to make
Speaker 2: him even more money. And the weird thing is, Dennis
Speaker 2: hires Peggy unilaterally. He doesn't ask his lawyers, he doesn't
Speaker 2: ask his agents, he doesn't ask anyone. He just pulls
Speaker 2: the trigger and brings her on and actually signs over
Speaker 2: power of attorney to her, giving Peggy overnight full control
Speaker 2: of every bank account he's got, every piece of real
Speaker 2: estate he owns or is renting, and every dollar he
Speaker 2: has coming in. His former manager is actually cut off
Speaker 2: guard by it all.
Speaker 7: Dennis called me and said, Hey, I have a new
Speaker 7: business manager and I'm going over to talk to her
Speaker 7: about some things. I want you to come over and
Speaker 7: meet her. So I went over to Peggy's house. Peggy
Speaker 7: had a house in the Coral Ridge subdivision of Fort Lauderdale,
Speaker 7: and she's got all of these cars Maserati's and Bentley's
Speaker 7: and BMW's and range Rovers all in the driveway. And
Speaker 7: I walk in and I see Peggy. She makes this
Speaker 7: grand entrance coming down her little winding staircase and she's like, Hey,
Speaker 7: how you guys doing. And it was like a scene
Speaker 7: out of a movie.
Speaker 2: But in direct contrast to that sophisticated movie star descending
Speaker 2: a staircase, Peggy's got a bad habit that kind of
Speaker 2: gives her away, but kind of doesn't. We'll explain right
Speaker 2: after the break Welcome Back to Queen of the Khan.
Speaker 2: Dennis Rodman's manager is noticing something about Dennis's new financial guru, Peggy,
Speaker 2: that kind of surprises him.
Speaker 7: She cuts like a sailor first of all, which to
Speaker 7: me wasn't a big deal. I mean, I use file
Speaker 7: language as well, but it's very unusual for someone who
Speaker 7: is talking about business or dealing with things cursing people out.
Speaker 7: Like she'll be talking about a deal or someone, Oh,
Speaker 7: this motherfucker needs to do this, and like that's a
Speaker 7: little unusual. But she's very charismatic. She was funny, I
Speaker 7: have to say, very charming, very affable. You almost took
Speaker 7: it as a badge of honor when she cursed you
Speaker 7: out for something that was just her way. And she
Speaker 7: loved to call everybody baby.
Speaker 10: She's like, you know, baby, I don't have to do
Speaker 10: this if you don't want me to.
Speaker 2: Dennis Rodman is under the impression that his new financial guru, Peggy,
Speaker 2: with the waterfront for Lauderdale mansion and the fleet of
Speaker 2: Lee's in BMW's parked in the driveway, has an impressive
Speaker 2: track record of making millions of dollars on Wall Street,
Speaker 2: and for the past decade, her self proclaimed passion has
Speaker 2: been helping professional athletes and former professional athletes like Dennis
Speaker 2: grow their finances exponentially, making shrewd investments in companies all
Speaker 2: over the world. And get this, she doesn't even charge
Speaker 2: a fee for her services. She claims she's just that
Speaker 2: wealthy and she doesn't need the money. Besides, she says,
Speaker 2: Dennis Rodman is like family to her now and she
Speaker 2: just wants to help him create what she calls generational
Speaker 2: wealth for his kids. And Dennis really loves that idea.
Speaker 2: I mean, he said publicly, you know, I haven't been
Speaker 2: a great father. I can't laugh about that. And now
Speaker 2: Peggy is offering him a way to kind of make
Speaker 2: up for that by ensuring his kids are well taken
Speaker 2: care of even after he's gone. Peggy also claims to
Speaker 2: be a Harvard grad with her finger on the pulse
Speaker 2: of World finance.
Speaker 9: She had a Harvard plaque in her office.
Speaker 2: Peggy's former assistant again Chantel Cohen, and it.
Speaker 4: Looked legit, legit.
Speaker 9: How would I know what is a Harvard degree or not.
Speaker 2: I didn't go to Harvard, but Peggy's got something else
Speaker 2: going for at this point too. A reality show based
Speaker 2: on her life is making the rounds a television networks,
Speaker 2: and Beet reportedly orders a pilot.
Speaker 10: My name's Peggy and I'm the CEO of King Management.
Speaker 10: King Management is a company I founded because I wanted
Speaker 10: to help professional athletes manage their finances.
Speaker 2: As the months turn into years, Dennis Rodman and Peggy
Speaker 2: get close, really close. She kind of becomes the mother
Speaker 2: he never had. In twenty eleven, when Dennis is inducted
Speaker 2: into the Basketball Hall of Fame at a star studded
Speaker 2: ceremony in Springfield, Massachusetts, Peggy's there and she makes quite
Speaker 2: a scene. According to Dennis's attorney.
Speaker 6: I remember pulling up and Peggy was just arriving, and
Speaker 6: then there were two carts, two hotel carts full of
Speaker 6: LV bags. First of all, Springfield doesn't see that. Springfield's
Speaker 6: very small town, our claim to fame as the Basketball
Speaker 6: Hall of Fame. So to see someone roll up, you know,
Speaker 6: two carts of LV bags, full length fur coat, you know,
Speaker 6: all white, I heels, gigantic diamonds. It was something that
Speaker 6: you would like see in a movie.
Speaker 2: It was amazing, and when the ceremony starts.
Speaker 4: Welcoming Dennis to the hall is Phil Jackson from the
Speaker 4: class of two thousand.
Speaker 2: And seven Ladies and Gentlemen Dennis Rodman. As Dennis is
Speaker 2: making his way to the stage, he stops in the
Speaker 2: aisle where Peggy is and kisses her on the cheek.
Speaker 2: I'm posting a video clip of this precise moment at
Speaker 2: Queen of the Khan on Instagram so you can see
Speaker 2: why it made such an indelible mark on everyone in
Speaker 2: Dennis's orbit that night, especially his attorney.
Speaker 6: She was wearing all white. I mean, she was stunning.
Speaker 6: It was really something that you're like, who is this person?
Speaker 6: You would think she was getting inducted. She always has
Speaker 6: diamonds on, diamond watches, diamond earrings, and not your common
Speaker 6: like nice pair of diamond earrings I'm talking about, you know,
Speaker 6: coming to America type diamond earrings.
Speaker 2: Later that night, in Dennis Rodman's acceptance speech, he thanks
Speaker 2: Peggy by name, along with a man who's reportedly Peggy's brother.
Speaker 5: Peggy King elpen King the family that these guys are
Speaker 5: taking care of me these days.
Speaker 2: Thank you, Peggy, and Peggy's watching flashing her movie star
Speaker 2: smile of approval. Dennis Rodman's attorney will never forget that
Speaker 2: moment as long as he lives.
Speaker 6: The relationship between Peggy Dennis was next level. Dennis was
Speaker 6: relying on her, I think for emotional support. Peggy had
Speaker 6: that motherly instinct and kind of you know, she would
Speaker 6: call you baby and let me take care of you.
Speaker 5: That's really been an impact of my life.
Speaker 2: That night, during his speech, Dennis Robin actually talks about
Speaker 2: his own mother and father, but not in a good way.
Speaker 5: I never had a father. My father left me when
Speaker 5: I was five years old. He has forty seven kids
Speaker 5: in Philippines, and I'm the oldest one, and he wrote
Speaker 5: a book about me. He made a lot of money,
Speaker 5: but he never came in and said hello to me.
Speaker 5: Me and my mothers have never got along. My mother
Speaker 5: really ever hugged me or hugged my siblings. And once
Speaker 5: I became to the age of sixteen eighteen nineteen twenty,
Speaker 5: I could care less what I did to my mother.
Speaker 5: Mother worth three jobs, and she kicked me out the
Speaker 5: house and said you have to leave here because you
Speaker 5: have you know, I can't take you anymore. I was
Speaker 5: homeless and a lot of you guys here has been here.
Speaker 2: According to his former manager, there's not a moment that
Speaker 2: goes by that Dennis Rodman doesn't think about as tumultuous
Speaker 2: past as a homeless teenager.
Speaker 7: We could be out walking around and there's a homeless
Speaker 7: guy and he'll just hand him a hundred bucks. I've
Speaker 7: seen him take his shirt off his back give it
Speaker 7: to a homeless guy, and he's walking around with no shirt.
Speaker 2: Now, looking back, it's obvious now there was a gaping
Speaker 2: mother of a hole in Dennis Rodman's life that Peggy
Speaker 2: seemed to fill perfectly.
Speaker 7: I think Dennis trusted Peggy because she was really really
Speaker 7: adept at understanding people's psyche and their psychology and understanding
Speaker 7: what they need and providing that for them. Dennis had
Speaker 7: a very strained relationship with his mother and his sisters,
Speaker 7: so the women in his life, he had a strained relationship,
Speaker 7: and I think that she realized he needed that sort
Speaker 7: of moddly feminine love. I think she knew and understood
Speaker 7: how powerful that could be in a person like Dennis
Speaker 7: who feels very insecure about other relationships with the women
Speaker 7: in his life, and I think she played on that.
Speaker 7: She was very good at figuring people out and understanding
Speaker 7: exactly what they needed.
Speaker 2: Dennis Robin's girlfriend at the time, a woman named Gigi
Speaker 2: who fun fact for U Bravo fans, used to be
Speaker 2: married to Real Housewives of Orange County. Lorie Peterson's husband,
Speaker 2: George gig sees Peggy move into Dennis's life and watches
Speaker 2: Peggy completely take control of Dennis.
Speaker 12: And I felt like Dennis was really trying to. He
Speaker 12: wanted to impress her. He needed her affirmation, almost as
Speaker 12: if he needed his mother's after like perhaps there was
Speaker 12: something there that reminded him of his mom or what
Speaker 12: he wanted from a mom. He still had this I'm
Speaker 12: just a nobody whatever, some deep seated emotional pain from
Speaker 12: growing up where he didn't feel loved or he didn't
Speaker 12: feel like he had the affirmations that he should have
Speaker 12: had when he was growing up. And here he was
Speaker 12: thrown into the NBA and he was getting all these accolades,
Speaker 12: all those accolades, he didn't feel like he deserved them.
Speaker 12: Even though he would be hand in hand with with
Speaker 12: Michael Jordan of all people, or Scottie Pippen, he still
Speaker 12: felt like they were so above him that he couldn't
Speaker 12: stand next to them.
Speaker 2: He didn't feel like he belonged. He didn't feel good enough.
Speaker 2: He didn't feel worthy. Now that comes from the ft
Speaker 2: up childhood. Yeah, but it's interesting. No matter what he
Speaker 2: went on to achieve, which was tremendous by any account,
Speaker 2: he still didn't feel worthy.
Speaker 4: Yeah, people are complex and like you know, and I
Speaker 4: believe this, you're always kind of who you were as
Speaker 4: a kid to a certain extent. I think we're always
Speaker 4: struggling with the same kinds of things that we always have.
Speaker 4: You know, there was like a fundamental emotional deficit in
Speaker 4: his life as a young person, and that's you know,
Speaker 4: that mountain's been trying to climb his whole life.
Speaker 2: And just three years after first hiring Peggy to run
Speaker 2: his finances, all of a sudden, in mid twenty twelve,
Speaker 2: Dennis Rodman starts making headlines for not paying child support.
Speaker 7: The former NBA bad boy owes more than eight hundred
Speaker 7: thousand dollars in back child support for his two children,
Speaker 7: ages nine and ten, that he had with third wife, Michelle.
Speaker 2: Rodman, and behind the scenes, the general public has no idea.
Speaker 2: There's a ton of other screwy stuff going on with
Speaker 2: Dennis's finances too, exasperating his former manager.
Speaker 7: Dennison called me and say, my cable is or my
Speaker 7: power is off. He was renting out this place in Eventuro,
Speaker 7: which is in North Miami. The landlord would call me
Speaker 7: all the time like the rent is late, and I'm like,
Speaker 7: what are you talking about? The rent is late. He's
Speaker 7: got plenty of money.
Speaker 4: Drench shouldn't be late.
Speaker 2: Coming up this season on Queen of the Cohn like
Speaker 2: the company that she kept, she must be legit.
Speaker 4: These people are on national TV. Dennis rob Man, we
Speaker 4: hung out with his homeboy. Oh you was robbing them too.
Speaker 12: He and I in the early morning went to Peggy's
Speaker 12: house because he had no money. She was just waking
Speaker 12: up and she had a rob on. She's like, honey, honey,
Speaker 12: I'm sleeping.
Speaker 9: You have to come back later.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 10: Dennis had a big RS leaned against him prior to
Speaker 10: meeting me.
Speaker 12: And we went to the bank and Elkins like, Dennis,
Speaker 12: you don't have any money.
Speaker 7: Something just did not add up with Elkins's relationship with Peggy.
Speaker 4: Dennis Rodman confided in this guy. He told him dark
Speaker 4: secrets and.
Speaker 12: I would tell Dennis like I don't want felcon hanging
Speaker 12: around you.
Speaker 4: He got shot in the face.
Speaker 9: All Come said she was like scanning some drug dealers
Speaker 9: in the streets or whatever, and I think that.
Speaker 7: That is when he got caught up in so I
Speaker 7: met her through a close friend of mine.
Speaker 2: What's your impression of.
Speaker 10: For Peggy was somebody that would probably have sex with
Speaker 10: win of our clients. He was infatuated with me, and
Speaker 10: I said, you know what, You're sweet, You're very, very
Speaker 10: very handsome.
Speaker 2: Was there more than a professional relationship between Ricky Williams
Speaker 2: and Peggy?
Speaker 9: I've asked him a thousand million times.
Speaker 5: Peggy Fulford is a financial predator?
Speaker 2: How much were you missing?
Speaker 4: It was my first rookie check, my first Ricky check.
Speaker 4: I got a call from my agent and saying, Peggy
Speaker 4: got us.
Speaker 9: Cops come in. You have a check sitting on your nightstand,
Speaker 9: Like what is going on?
Speaker 10: I did some things, but I didn't kill anybody. And
Speaker 10: I believe that society will forgive me.
Speaker 9: Hide your money and your old Richmond because she is
Speaker 9: on the who.
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Speaker 2: Queen of the Cohn The Athlete Whisperer is a production
Speaker 2: of AYR Media and iHeartMedia, hosted by me Jonathan Walton,
Speaker 2: Executive producers Jonathan Walton for Jonathan Walton Productions and Elisa
Speaker 2: Rosen for AYR Media. Consulting producer Evan Goldstein consulting producer
Speaker 2: Trace Shean. Written by Jonathan Walton, Sound design by Zach Hirsch,
Speaker 2: Edited and mixed by Zach Hirsch, Audio engineer Justin Longerbean,
Speaker 2: audio engineer Chris Desmond, studio engineer Graham Gibson. Mastered by
Speaker 2: Justin Longerbean. Legal counsel for AYR Media, Gianni Douglas, executive
Speaker 2: producer for iHeartMedia. Maya Howard. Voice acting by Darnell Baldwin,
Speaker 2: Tyree Saxton, Junior, Courtney, Hettrick Milan Faxis, Jorge Farragut, David Teitelbaum,
Speaker 2: Terina Pouncey, Kim Ganier, Stuart Chait, Teresa Prindle. Statements from
Speaker 2: press reports, public interviews, and from court records were dramatized
Speaker 2: verbatim on this season of Queen of the Khan. B
Speaker 2: E T's American Gangster Trap, Queens TNTs Rich and Shameless,
Speaker 2: CNBC's American Greed, The Guardian, Sports Illustrated, The Times Picky June,
Speaker 2: The Opportunist podcast, victim interviews and countless court records were
Speaker 2: the sources used on this season of Queen of the Khan,