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Speaker 1: America has just witnessed a truly strange encounter. Who became

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Speaker 1: the first American to meet with the new leader of

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Speaker 1: North Korea, the wild child of basketball, Dennis Rodman.

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Speaker 2: Rights It's twenty thirteen and North Korean dictator Kim Jong

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Speaker 2: un is making headlines all over the world for paying

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Speaker 2: big bucks hiring NBA superstar Dennis Rodman to come visit

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Speaker 2: him well.

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Speaker 3: One of the few things known about the secretive Kim's

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Speaker 3: private life from his days as a student at a

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Speaker 3: Swiss boarding school is that he was an NBA nut,

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Speaker 3: especially big on Rodman's old team.

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Speaker 4: The Bulls.

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Speaker 2: Shockingly, Dennis Rodman seems to publicly take a liking to

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Speaker 2: Kim Jong un, a ruthless dictator with a reputation for

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Speaker 2: brutalizing his own people. The two men actually become friends.

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Speaker 5: We laugh, We sink karaoke, We do a lot of

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Speaker 5: cool things together.

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Speaker 2: Dennis Rodman is reportedly making upwards of two hundred thousand

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Speaker 2: dollars for visiting North Korea, but he has no idea

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Speaker 2: that the money Kim Jong un is paying him to

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Speaker 2: be there is being stolen from him right before his

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Speaker 2: very eyes by a true queen of the Khan in

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Speaker 2: every sense of the word. You see, Dennis Rodman has

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Speaker 2: invited a crafty fox into his financial henhouse, an inveterate

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Speaker 2: con artist, a tall, blonde, vivacious woman who's got a

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Speaker 2: grift that's so sophisticated and so believable. It takes Dennis

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Speaker 2: Rodman years to figure out what's going on, and even

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Speaker 2: when he does, he just can't bring himself to let

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Speaker 2: her go. I'm Jonathan Walton, and this is Queen of

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Speaker 2: the Khan Season five, The Athlete Whisperer, Episode one, call

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Speaker 2: me Roquelle. He is a marketable condition and Ron by

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Speaker 2: this season has become the most prolific player off the

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Speaker 2: bars in two decades.

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Speaker 4: Every time Dennis Rodman, he was like a rock star.

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Speaker 4: He was just the epitome of hard work and hustle

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Speaker 4: on the basketball court.

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Speaker 2: Full confession here, I know more about nuclear fusion than

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Speaker 2: I do about basketball or really any kind of sports.

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Speaker 4: Sports is a religion, man, and these people are the

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Speaker 4: figureheads of this religion.

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Speaker 2: My buddy, Evan Goldstein, on the other hand, is an oracle.

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Speaker 2: He's also a huge Dennis Rodman fan, one of.

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Speaker 4: The greatest rebounders in NBA, history.

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Speaker 2: What's a rebounder?

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Speaker 4: Rebounder, It's just basically means when someone shoots the ball

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Speaker 4: and they miss and it bounces off the rim and

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Speaker 4: the person that catches it, that's a rebound.

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Speaker 2: So was he the person who would catch it? Yes,

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Speaker 2: So Dennis Rodman would catch it and what score?

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Speaker 4: Pass it or score? He really had it down to

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Speaker 4: a science, and he would study how the ball would

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Speaker 4: bounce off the rim to know where to position himself

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Speaker 4: under the basket to get it. And he was the

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Speaker 4: guy that would dive for balls and hustle. He had

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Speaker 4: this kind of signature way of doing it where he

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Speaker 4: would jump up catch the ball. He would flare his

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Speaker 4: legs out and kind of like a like a half split,

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Speaker 4: and people would literally cheer.

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Speaker 2: He turns it into a performance. It sounds like I

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Speaker 2: thought he could he could score a lot.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, like he could score, but he might have ten

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Speaker 4: points in a whole game where it's like Michael Jordan

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Speaker 4: have forty, so Michael.

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Speaker 2: Jordan can score. He was the score Okay, that's his thing.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, Dennis Rodman did the dirty work. He helped the

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Speaker 4: team win by getting the ball before the other team.

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Speaker 2: You blew my mind. Today. I had no idea what

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Speaker 2: a rebounder was.

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Speaker 4: I love that. That's the thing.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I don't know, like, I don't know. I'm

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Speaker 2: a gig guy. I don't know anything sports.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. No, if anyone asked you, what was Bernadette Peters

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Speaker 4: doing in the you know, early two thousands, you you're

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Speaker 4: their man.

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Speaker 2: I think she was the Witch and into the Woods.

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Speaker 2: She was the first lage like that might have been

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Speaker 2: the late nineties, though she was also dot in Sun

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Speaker 2: in the Park with Georgia, a Sondheim musical about George

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Speaker 2: Sarat with George. But enough about sondheime. I just assumed

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Speaker 2: you were never into sports, because oh, yeah, growing up

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Speaker 2: I liked sports. You and I are like best friends. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and we've never talked sports.

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Speaker 4: No, But like, growing up, I played basketball.

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Speaker 2: What position were you on the basketball?

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Speaker 4: I was a forward, so the same position as Dennis Rodman.

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Speaker 2: Oh, but he was a rebounder.

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Speaker 4: Oh, Jonathan, let's talk more Sondheim.

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Speaker 2: But really, Dennis Rodman was to the NBA what bernand

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Speaker 2: At Peters was to any Stephen Sondheim production. She was

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Speaker 2: in a key player, though by twenty thirteen, Rodman is

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Speaker 2: comfortably retired from the NBA for more than a decade

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Speaker 2: after reportedly earning upwards of twenty seven million dollars for

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Speaker 2: playing basketball and many millions more in endorsement deals with

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Speaker 2: brands like Nike and Coca Cola. He goes on to

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Speaker 2: do movies and TV shows.

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Speaker 6: Well He's welcome, Dennis Rodman.

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Speaker 2: And in twenty thirteen, he even does a season of

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Speaker 2: Celebrity Apprentice for NBC with you know who, Dennis, You're fired.

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Speaker 4: Part of the mystique that fed into Dennis Rodman. He

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Speaker 4: was just kind of a badass. He's like a bad boy.

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Speaker 4: He was just kind of fun to watch, partying, fall down, drunk,

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Speaker 4: taking pictures at clubs with you know, amazing women. And

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Speaker 4: as a young boy or a young man, you know

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Speaker 4: that's pretty Uh.

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Speaker 2: You looked up to him.

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Speaker 4: That's pretty cool.

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Speaker 2: You wanted to be like Dennis Rodman. Yeah. Why do

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Speaker 2: they call him the worm?

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Speaker 4: I would just assume based on because he was never

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Speaker 4: necessarily the biggest guy on the court. There are people

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Speaker 4: that would tower above him, but he would outrebound them.

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Speaker 4: And you know, he had kind of a nitty gritty

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Speaker 4: way of flex so kind of squirm. He could kind

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Speaker 4: of get past people. He could flex and bend and

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Speaker 4: kind of get around people and like you just kind

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Speaker 4: of worm in there.

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Speaker 2: So I have googled, and according to Google, his mom

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Speaker 2: and his sisters gave him the name the Worm as

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Speaker 2: a kid because when he would play pinball, he would

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Speaker 2: squirm like a worm and they called him but kind

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Speaker 2: of similar to what you're saying, but post NBA, the

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Speaker 2: Worm's bread and butter comes from doing lucrative public appearances

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Speaker 2: and he makes a lot of money. According to his

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Speaker 2: former manager, he's.

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Speaker 7: One of the most recognizable people in the world. Even

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Speaker 7: to this day, he makes upwards of a million dollars

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Speaker 7: a year. He hasn't played basketball in almost twenty years.

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Speaker 2: But that North Korean public appearance in twenty thirteen is

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Speaker 2: fraud with peril for Dennis Rodman.

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Speaker 7: When I first heard about the deal, I was against it.

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Speaker 7: I just thought that Dennis getting mixed up with a

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Speaker 7: dictator in North Korea was just a terrible, terrible, terrible idea.

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Speaker 7: I fought at every step of the way. And how

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Speaker 7: the deal actually came around was that the North Koreans

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Speaker 7: originally were trying to put on some sort of basketball

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Speaker 7: exhibition and they reached out to Michael Jordan, and Michael

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Speaker 7: Jordan turned them down. So when Michael Jordan turned them down,

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Speaker 7: they were like, Okay, well what about Dennis Rodman. And

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Speaker 7: that's when they first reached out to us. And if

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Speaker 7: you go back, you can find online there's a picture

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Speaker 7: of Kim Jong um when he's like a teenager and

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Speaker 7: he's playing basket ketball. He's wearing a Dennis Rodman jersey.

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Speaker 2: I actually found that picture and I'm posting it at

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Speaker 2: Queen of the Khan on Instagram, so you can see

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Speaker 2: what a teenage Kim jong un looks like in a

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Speaker 2: Rodman jersey. For Dennis, though, cozying up to a dictator

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Speaker 2: is not exactly good for his career.

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Speaker 7: The death threats and the messages on social media, it

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Speaker 7: was overwhelming ninety nine one against him. They were absolutely vicious,

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Speaker 7: calling him a trader to his country, calling him a communist.

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Speaker 7: He should leave America, don't ever come back like it

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Speaker 7: was bad.

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Speaker 2: But four years earlier, in two thousand and nine, Dennis

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Speaker 2: Rodman and his entourage are in Miami on Trendy South

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Speaker 2: Beach attending the opening of Miami Dolphins running back Ricky

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Speaker 2: Williams new restaurant when all of a sudden, a stunningly

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Speaker 2: dressed woman shows up and starts mingling, expertly, working her

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Speaker 2: way through the crowd like a professional talk show host.

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Speaker 2: She's got the gift of gab, and everyone seems to

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Speaker 2: know her and love her. It's a moment Dennis Rodman's

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Speaker 2: bodyguard will never forget, because he wasn't sure she belonged

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Speaker 2: there at first.

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Speaker 8: She was in a scene in Miami that you couldn't

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Speaker 8: afford to be in, like invite only, Like, how the

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Speaker 8: hell was she next to us?

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Speaker 2: Her name is Peggy Fulford aka Peggy King, Peggy Barrard,

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Speaker 2: Peggy Simpson, Peggy Rivers, Devon Cole. Oh, there are a

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Speaker 2: bunch of other aliases she uses too.

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Speaker 9: She mentioned to us to call her rockl.

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Speaker 2: That's Sean tel Cohen, Peggy's former assistant.

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Speaker 9: I had a best friend in town from San Diego,

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Speaker 9: And when Peggy walked in, she's like, would you guys

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Speaker 9: like to go out with me later? And we're kind

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Speaker 9: of just like what And she's like, yeah, come here,

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Speaker 9: hang out. You know your friends in town, blah blah blah.

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Speaker 9: And we started talking small talk, and then she mentioned

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Speaker 9: to us.

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Speaker 10: When we go out, just call me Raquel.

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Speaker 2: And that is the first red flag. Something's up, something big.

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Speaker 2: Something we'll explain after this break. Welcome back to Queen

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Speaker 2: of the Khan. Peggy's former assistant, Sean tel Cohen is

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Speaker 2: noticing something strange about Peggy that won't make any sense

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Speaker 2: until years later.

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Speaker 9: She mentioned to us that when we go out, to

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Speaker 9: call her Roquel, and me and my best friend at

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Speaker 9: the time just started.

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Speaker 2: Laughing and we're like, call her Roquel.

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Speaker 9: Yeah, what do you mean, call you Raquel? And she's like, yeah,

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Speaker 9: that's my name, you know, when I go out because

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Speaker 9: I don't want people in my business. Blah blah blah.

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Speaker 9: We kind of thought it was weird, but we just

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Speaker 9: laughed it off, like, you know, people do change their

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Speaker 9: names when they go to the clubs, and you know

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Speaker 9: stuff like that. You're just giving fake names and things

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Speaker 9: like that. But we didn't really think about it until

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Speaker 9: later on in life and was like, oh, wow, first

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Speaker 9: red sign.

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Speaker 2: That was a huge red flag, huge red sign. Yeah, yes,

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Speaker 2: oh my god, call me Roquel, all me Raquel? How

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Speaker 2: effing bizarre whatever you call her, though, she is a

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Speaker 2: sight to behole. That night on South beach back in

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Speaker 2: two thousand and nine. At fifty one years old, she

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Speaker 2: could easily pass for being in her late thirties. She's

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Speaker 2: got long blonde hair, sparkling eyes, and electrifying charm and

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Speaker 2: charisma oozing from every pore. Dennis Rodman's bodyguard remembers her, Well.

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Speaker 8: She looked like a million bucks. She was driving the

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Speaker 8: right car. Well, she was driven in the right car.

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Speaker 8: She was wearing the right jewelry, had the right clothes on.

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Speaker 8: The other players that I knew in Miami at the

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Speaker 8: time were talking to her.

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Speaker 4: Like to kind of make friends. I think with like famous.

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Speaker 2: People, my buddy Evan Goldstein.

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Speaker 4: Again, I think you kind of have to operate on

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Speaker 4: their level.

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Speaker 2: You know, if you have to like put on a

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Speaker 2: show for them.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, like you have to impress them and to be

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Speaker 4: able to kind of weave your way into their good graces.

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Speaker 4: I feel like you have to have a little something extra.

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Speaker 2: I agree one thousand percent, and she did have a

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Speaker 2: little something extra. But let's not downplay the effect a

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Speaker 2: beautiful woman has. Raisa, Yeah, you're insane.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, you're right.

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Speaker 2: I'll tell you a funny story. So I was nineteen

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Speaker 2: years old. I'm not as Evan will attest, conventionally attractive

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Speaker 2: by Western societal snaw. I'm pretty on the inside, but

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Speaker 2: my family I have a lot of hot cousins and niece.

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Speaker 2: So I'm nineteen years old walking out of this yogurt

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Speaker 2: shop in Miami with my cousin who's also nineteen or twenty.

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Speaker 2: She's breathtakingly beautiful, and all of a sudden you hear

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Speaker 2: like a screech of a car, this white Porsche stop.

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Speaker 2: This guy in a suit jumps out, runs up to

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Speaker 2: my cousins, like, I just have to tell you, you're

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Speaker 2: the most beautiful thing I've ever seen in my life.

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Speaker 2: I'm an attorney. Is this your boyfriend? Points to me,

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Speaker 2: and she's like, no, it's my cousin. I'm an attorney,

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Speaker 2: and if you ever need anything, here's my card. I

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Speaker 2: would love to take you to dinner. And then she

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Speaker 2: was stunned, didn't know how to react. He just hops

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Speaker 2: back into his drives away. But what straight guys will

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Speaker 2: do in the presence of a beautiful woman, like anything

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Speaker 2: and everything and.

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Speaker 4: Everything it's a pretty woman has power, oh by a

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Speaker 4: million percent.

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Speaker 2: And that was Peggy. Peggy was a pretty woman that

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Speaker 2: was Peggy's power that night on South Beach, she knowingly

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Speaker 2: weaponized her beauty. She showed up to someplace and she

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Speaker 2: just wormed her way in and she got Dennis Rodman's attention.

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Speaker 11: I mean, she's obviously easy on the eyes.

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Speaker 2: That's Ramon Antonio Vargas, a journalist for The Guardian and

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Speaker 2: author of the book Family, Gangsters and Champions. He's written

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Speaker 2: extensively about Peggy over the years.

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Speaker 11: I think she's described herself as creole, right, and she

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Speaker 11: certainly has that look right. There's like a certain lego

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Speaker 11: of the creole in New Orleans, and when you listen

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Speaker 11: to her speak, she certainly fits that bill. She's very

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Speaker 11: self assured. She had the story that she was like

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Speaker 11: independently successful on Wall Street. She made a fortune in

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Speaker 11: hospital deals and land deals, and it's kind of very impressive,

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Speaker 11: very beautiful, very appealing. I think a lot of people

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Speaker 11: were taken and impressed by her narrative.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so picture it a Bomby South Florida night in

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Speaker 2: two thousand and nine, a crowded South Beach restaurant. Peggy's

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Speaker 2: working the room like a seasoned politician, flashing her pearly whites,

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Speaker 2: pressing the flesh and impressing everyone. Dennis Rodman's there with

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Speaker 2: his bodyguard, a bodyguard who reports prides himself on never

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Speaker 2: standing beside Dennis, never letting onlookers know he's with Dennis,

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Speaker 2: or watching out for Dennis, or guarding Dennis in any way.

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Speaker 2: He always keeps his distance. But that night on South Beach,

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Speaker 2: he slips up and Peggy figures out immediately who Dennis's

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Speaker 2: bodyguard is.

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Speaker 8: The first interaction I have with her is while I'm

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Speaker 8: actually standing with Dennis. That's so, so, so extremely rare.

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Speaker 8: And it's a red flag and I missed it.

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Speaker 2: Bro yep. Schmoozing a celebrity's bodyguard is a huge red

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Speaker 2: flag in the world of protecting famous people. But Peggy

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Speaker 2: effortlessly charms both men all evening Dennis Rodman and his bodyguard,

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Speaker 2: and after they learn she's a big time financial advisor

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Speaker 2: for pro athletes, they let their guard down. She's actually

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Speaker 2: managing the money for Miami Dolphins running back Ricky Williams.

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Speaker 2: At that point, the guy whose restaurant opening Rodman and

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Speaker 2: his bodyguard are attending that night.

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Speaker 8: She came in, very soft, very welcoming. If you need anything,

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Speaker 8: you call me.

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Speaker 2: First, but now looking back, it appears Peggy had big

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Speaker 2: plans for Dennis Rodman and that chance encounter might have

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Speaker 2: actually been planned.

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Speaker 4: It takes more than luck to be a con artist.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I spoke to Michelle Rodman, Dennis Rodman's ex wife.

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Speaker 2: People have called her Michelle Moyer, but she told me

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Speaker 2: I'm Michelle Rodman, like she doesn't like people changing her

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Speaker 2: name to her maiden name. And it reminds me of

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Speaker 2: what my mom did, because my mom kept Walton because

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Speaker 2: it was my dad's name, who my dad wasn't in

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Speaker 2: my life, suck up, but my mom felt, I want

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Speaker 2: to match my kids, so we're a family still, So

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Speaker 2: my mom.

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Speaker 4: Kept Walton, So that makes sense.

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Speaker 2: So Michelle Rodman did the same thing, she told me,

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Speaker 2: because she wanted to match with her kids. And she

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Speaker 2: says she's always getting criticized, like why are you still

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Speaker 2: trying to hang onto Rodman's name, And she's like, no,

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Speaker 2: it's I want to have the same thing was my kids,

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Speaker 2: because we're a family.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So I talked to Michelle Rodman. I scheduled an interview

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Speaker 2: with her. She was in Then the next day she

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Speaker 2: texts me the day before the end She's like, can

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Speaker 2: I do it another day at another place. I'm like, sure, sure,

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Speaker 2: that's fine, we can do that. And then on the

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Speaker 2: interview day, she texted me, you know what, I talked

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Speaker 2: to her with my kids. I don't want to be

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Speaker 2: in your podcast. I'm sorry. So I couldn't get an

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Speaker 2: interview with her. But I talked to her for like

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Speaker 2: a half an hour, and I took copious notes, and

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Speaker 2: she explained to me that as fate would have it.

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Speaker 2: That night, when Peggy makes a bee line over to

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Speaker 2: Dennis Rodman at Ricky Williams Restaurant in South Beach, Dennis

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Speaker 2: Rodman's money manager is in rehab. He has like a

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Speaker 2: major drug problem and he can't be Dennis Rodman's money

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Speaker 2: manager anymore. So Dennis Rodman Lo and Behold is actually

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Speaker 2: on the market for a money manager. Oh, enter Peggy.

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Speaker 4: I wonder if that was like researched.

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Speaker 2: I do believe she knew his money manager was in

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Speaker 2: rehab and that was an opportunity for her to get

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Speaker 2: into his life and impress him. I think that was calculated.

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Speaker 2: And it wasn't long after that restaurant opening on South

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Speaker 2: Beach back in two thousand and nine that Peggy signs

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Speaker 2: on as Dennis Rodman's new financial manager. At this point

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Speaker 2: in his career, he's still got millions of dollars coming

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Speaker 2: in from public appearances, from endorsement deals, from doing TV

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Speaker 2: shows and movies, and like a lot of celebrities and

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Speaker 2: rich people, Dennis doesn't personally handle any of that money himself.

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Speaker 2: As his former manager explains.

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Speaker 7: You have to understand something. He doesn't pay his own bills.

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Speaker 7: He's just very isolated. He's very well managed. He doesn't

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Speaker 7: deal with a lot of the day to day Monday

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Speaker 7: stuff that you and I and most people will deal with.

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Speaker 7: He probably hasn't opened a piece of mail in fifteen

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Speaker 7: twenty years. He just doesn't do it. He has people

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Speaker 7: to handle that far, and there's accountants and there's people

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Speaker 7: that you know, take care of it. He puts that

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Speaker 7: trust in his people, and they're supposed to handle it

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Speaker 7: for him.

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Speaker 2: So Dennis Rodman hires Peggy to run his finances. She's

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Speaker 2: supposed to put him on a strict budget, pay his bills,

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Speaker 2: pay his taxes, pay his child support, and invest the

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Speaker 2: rest of the money he's got coming in to make

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Speaker 2: him even more money. And the weird thing is, Dennis

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Speaker 2: hires Peggy unilaterally. He doesn't ask his lawyers, he doesn't

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Speaker 2: ask his agents, he doesn't ask anyone. He just pulls

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Speaker 2: the trigger and brings her on and actually signs over

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Speaker 2: power of attorney to her, giving Peggy overnight full control

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Speaker 2: of every bank account he's got, every piece of real

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Speaker 2: estate he owns or is renting, and every dollar he

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Speaker 2: has coming in. His former manager is actually cut off

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Speaker 2: guard by it all.

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Speaker 7: Dennis called me and said, Hey, I have a new

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Speaker 7: business manager and I'm going over to talk to her

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Speaker 7: about some things. I want you to come over and

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Speaker 7: meet her. So I went over to Peggy's house. Peggy

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Speaker 7: had a house in the Coral Ridge subdivision of Fort Lauderdale,

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Speaker 7: and she's got all of these cars Maserati's and Bentley's

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Speaker 7: and BMW's and range Rovers all in the driveway. And

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Speaker 7: I walk in and I see Peggy. She makes this

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Speaker 7: grand entrance coming down her little winding staircase and she's like, Hey,

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Speaker 7: how you guys doing. And it was like a scene

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Speaker 7: out of a movie.

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Speaker 2: But in direct contrast to that sophisticated movie star descending

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Speaker 2: a staircase, Peggy's got a bad habit that kind of

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Speaker 2: gives her away, but kind of doesn't. We'll explain right

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Speaker 2: after the break Welcome Back to Queen of the Khan.

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Speaker 2: Dennis Rodman's manager is noticing something about Dennis's new financial guru, Peggy,

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Speaker 2: that kind of surprises him.

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Speaker 7: She cuts like a sailor first of all, which to

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Speaker 7: me wasn't a big deal. I mean, I use file

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Speaker 7: language as well, but it's very unusual for someone who

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Speaker 7: is talking about business or dealing with things cursing people out.

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Speaker 7: Like she'll be talking about a deal or someone, Oh,

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Speaker 7: this motherfucker needs to do this, and like that's a

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Speaker 7: little unusual. But she's very charismatic. She was funny, I

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Speaker 7: have to say, very charming, very affable. You almost took

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Speaker 7: it as a badge of honor when she cursed you

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Speaker 7: out for something that was just her way. And she

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Speaker 7: loved to call everybody baby.

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Speaker 10: She's like, you know, baby, I don't have to do

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Speaker 10: this if you don't want me to.

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Speaker 2: Dennis Rodman is under the impression that his new financial guru, Peggy,

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Speaker 2: with the waterfront for Lauderdale mansion and the fleet of

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Speaker 2: Lee's in BMW's parked in the driveway, has an impressive

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Speaker 2: track record of making millions of dollars on Wall Street,

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Speaker 2: and for the past decade, her self proclaimed passion has

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Speaker 2: been helping professional athletes and former professional athletes like Dennis

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Speaker 2: grow their finances exponentially, making shrewd investments in companies all

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Speaker 2: over the world. And get this, she doesn't even charge

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Speaker 2: a fee for her services. She claims she's just that

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Speaker 2: wealthy and she doesn't need the money. Besides, she says,

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Speaker 2: Dennis Rodman is like family to her now and she

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Speaker 2: just wants to help him create what she calls generational

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Speaker 2: wealth for his kids. And Dennis really loves that idea.

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Speaker 2: I mean, he said publicly, you know, I haven't been

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Speaker 2: a great father. I can't laugh about that. And now

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Speaker 2: Peggy is offering him a way to kind of make

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Speaker 2: up for that by ensuring his kids are well taken

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Speaker 2: care of even after he's gone. Peggy also claims to

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Speaker 2: be a Harvard grad with her finger on the pulse

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Speaker 2: of World finance.

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Speaker 9: She had a Harvard plaque in her office.

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Speaker 2: Peggy's former assistant again Chantel Cohen, and it.

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Speaker 4: Looked legit, legit.

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Speaker 9: How would I know what is a Harvard degree or not.

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Speaker 2: I didn't go to Harvard, but Peggy's got something else

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Speaker 2: going for at this point too. A reality show based

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Speaker 2: on her life is making the rounds a television networks,

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Speaker 2: and Beet reportedly orders a pilot.

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Speaker 10: My name's Peggy and I'm the CEO of King Management.

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Speaker 10: King Management is a company I founded because I wanted

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Speaker 10: to help professional athletes manage their finances.

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Speaker 2: As the months turn into years, Dennis Rodman and Peggy

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Speaker 2: get close, really close. She kind of becomes the mother

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Speaker 2: he never had. In twenty eleven, when Dennis is inducted

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Speaker 2: into the Basketball Hall of Fame at a star studded

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00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:02,840
Speaker 2: ceremony in Springfield, Massachusetts, Peggy's there and she makes quite

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Speaker 2: a scene. According to Dennis's attorney.

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Speaker 6: I remember pulling up and Peggy was just arriving, and

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Speaker 6: then there were two carts, two hotel carts full of

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Speaker 6: LV bags. First of all, Springfield doesn't see that. Springfield's

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Speaker 6: very small town, our claim to fame as the Basketball

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Speaker 6: Hall of Fame. So to see someone roll up, you know,

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Speaker 6: two carts of LV bags, full length fur coat, you know,

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Speaker 6: all white, I heels, gigantic diamonds. It was something that

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Speaker 6: you would like see in a movie.

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Speaker 2: It was amazing, and when the ceremony starts.

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Speaker 4: Welcoming Dennis to the hall is Phil Jackson from the

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Speaker 4: class of two thousand.

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Speaker 2: And seven Ladies and Gentlemen Dennis Rodman. As Dennis is

437
00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:52,080
Speaker 2: making his way to the stage, he stops in the

438
00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:55,480
Speaker 2: aisle where Peggy is and kisses her on the cheek.

439
00:24:57,320 --> 00:25:00,560
Speaker 2: I'm posting a video clip of this precise moment at

440
00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:03,320
Speaker 2: Queen of the Khan on Instagram so you can see

441
00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:06,399
Speaker 2: why it made such an indelible mark on everyone in

442
00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:09,879
Speaker 2: Dennis's orbit that night, especially his attorney.

443
00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:13,480
Speaker 6: She was wearing all white. I mean, she was stunning.

444
00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:16,399
Speaker 6: It was really something that you're like, who is this person?

445
00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:20,120
Speaker 6: You would think she was getting inducted. She always has

446
00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:25,000
Speaker 6: diamonds on, diamond watches, diamond earrings, and not your common

447
00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:28,159
Speaker 6: like nice pair of diamond earrings I'm talking about, you know,

448
00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:31,080
Speaker 6: coming to America type diamond earrings.

449
00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:36,320
Speaker 2: Later that night, in Dennis Rodman's acceptance speech, he thanks

450
00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:41,040
Speaker 2: Peggy by name, along with a man who's reportedly Peggy's brother.

451
00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:44,520
Speaker 5: Peggy King elpen King the family that these guys are

452
00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:45,480
Speaker 5: taking care of me these days.

453
00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:51,800
Speaker 2: Thank you, Peggy, and Peggy's watching flashing her movie star

454
00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:56,159
Speaker 2: smile of approval. Dennis Rodman's attorney will never forget that

455
00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:57,719
Speaker 2: moment as long as he lives.

456
00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:03,159
Speaker 6: The relationship between Peggy Dennis was next level. Dennis was

457
00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:06,920
Speaker 6: relying on her, I think for emotional support. Peggy had

458
00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:10,520
Speaker 6: that motherly instinct and kind of you know, she would

459
00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:13,399
Speaker 6: call you baby and let me take care of you.

460
00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:15,800
Speaker 5: That's really been an impact of my life.

461
00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:19,280
Speaker 2: That night, during his speech, Dennis Robin actually talks about

462
00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:22,200
Speaker 2: his own mother and father, but not in a good way.

463
00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:26,000
Speaker 5: I never had a father. My father left me when

464
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:30,960
Speaker 5: I was five years old. He has forty seven kids

465
00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:37,560
Speaker 5: in Philippines, and I'm the oldest one, and he wrote

466
00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:39,520
Speaker 5: a book about me. He made a lot of money,

467
00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:42,400
Speaker 5: but he never came in and said hello to me.

468
00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:45,440
Speaker 5: Me and my mothers have never got along. My mother

469
00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:50,200
Speaker 5: really ever hugged me or hugged my siblings. And once

470
00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:53,960
Speaker 5: I became to the age of sixteen eighteen nineteen twenty,

471
00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:57,800
Speaker 5: I could care less what I did to my mother.

472
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:04,119
Speaker 5: Mother worth three jobs, and she kicked me out the

473
00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:06,040
Speaker 5: house and said you have to leave here because you

474
00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:09,159
Speaker 5: have you know, I can't take you anymore. I was

475
00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:12,919
Speaker 5: homeless and a lot of you guys here has been here.

476
00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:16,359
Speaker 2: According to his former manager, there's not a moment that

477
00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:19,640
Speaker 2: goes by that Dennis Rodman doesn't think about as tumultuous

478
00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:21,520
Speaker 2: past as a homeless teenager.

479
00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:24,200
Speaker 7: We could be out walking around and there's a homeless

480
00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:27,440
Speaker 7: guy and he'll just hand him a hundred bucks. I've

481
00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:29,560
Speaker 7: seen him take his shirt off his back give it

482
00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:32,520
Speaker 7: to a homeless guy, and he's walking around with no shirt.

483
00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:37,400
Speaker 2: Now, looking back, it's obvious now there was a gaping

484
00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:40,800
Speaker 2: mother of a hole in Dennis Rodman's life that Peggy

485
00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:42,600
Speaker 2: seemed to fill perfectly.

486
00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:49,560
Speaker 7: I think Dennis trusted Peggy because she was really really

487
00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:54,119
Speaker 7: adept at understanding people's psyche and their psychology and understanding

488
00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:58,200
Speaker 7: what they need and providing that for them. Dennis had

489
00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:01,720
Speaker 7: a very strained relationship with his mother and his sisters,

490
00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:05,199
Speaker 7: so the women in his life, he had a strained relationship,

491
00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:09,040
Speaker 7: and I think that she realized he needed that sort

492
00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:14,240
Speaker 7: of moddly feminine love. I think she knew and understood

493
00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:17,920
Speaker 7: how powerful that could be in a person like Dennis

494
00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:22,320
Speaker 7: who feels very insecure about other relationships with the women

495
00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:24,520
Speaker 7: in his life, and I think she played on that.

496
00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:29,159
Speaker 7: She was very good at figuring people out and understanding

497
00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:30,600
Speaker 7: exactly what they needed.

498
00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:36,440
Speaker 2: Dennis Robin's girlfriend at the time, a woman named Gigi

499
00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:38,959
Speaker 2: who fun fact for U Bravo fans, used to be

500
00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:42,520
Speaker 2: married to Real Housewives of Orange County. Lorie Peterson's husband,

501
00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:47,360
Speaker 2: George gig sees Peggy move into Dennis's life and watches

502
00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:50,720
Speaker 2: Peggy completely take control of Dennis.

503
00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:54,520
Speaker 12: And I felt like Dennis was really trying to. He

504
00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:58,360
Speaker 12: wanted to impress her. He needed her affirmation, almost as

505
00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:01,960
Speaker 12: if he needed his mother's after like perhaps there was

506
00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:05,320
Speaker 12: something there that reminded him of his mom or what

507
00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:09,400
Speaker 12: he wanted from a mom. He still had this I'm

508
00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:13,160
Speaker 12: just a nobody whatever, some deep seated emotional pain from

509
00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:15,720
Speaker 12: growing up where he didn't feel loved or he didn't

510
00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:18,240
Speaker 12: feel like he had the affirmations that he should have

511
00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:22,360
Speaker 12: had when he was growing up. And here he was

512
00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:25,560
Speaker 12: thrown into the NBA and he was getting all these accolades,

513
00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:28,920
Speaker 12: all those accolades, he didn't feel like he deserved them.

514
00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:31,960
Speaker 12: Even though he would be hand in hand with with

515
00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:36,360
Speaker 12: Michael Jordan of all people, or Scottie Pippen, he still

516
00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:39,040
Speaker 12: felt like they were so above him that he couldn't

517
00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:40,000
Speaker 12: stand next to them.

518
00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:45,640
Speaker 2: He didn't feel like he belonged. He didn't feel good enough.

519
00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:47,920
Speaker 2: He didn't feel worthy. Now that comes from the ft

520
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:51,600
Speaker 2: up childhood. Yeah, but it's interesting. No matter what he

521
00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:54,400
Speaker 2: went on to achieve, which was tremendous by any account,

522
00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:57,640
Speaker 2: he still didn't feel worthy.

523
00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:01,400
Speaker 4: Yeah, people are complex and like you know, and I

524
00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:05,520
Speaker 4: believe this, you're always kind of who you were as

525
00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:08,640
Speaker 4: a kid to a certain extent. I think we're always

526
00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:11,520
Speaker 4: struggling with the same kinds of things that we always have.

527
00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:16,400
Speaker 4: You know, there was like a fundamental emotional deficit in

528
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:18,520
Speaker 4: his life as a young person, and that's you know,

529
00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:20,560
Speaker 4: that mountain's been trying to climb his whole life.

530
00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:24,920
Speaker 2: And just three years after first hiring Peggy to run

531
00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:29,120
Speaker 2: his finances, all of a sudden, in mid twenty twelve,

532
00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:33,800
Speaker 2: Dennis Rodman starts making headlines for not paying child support.

533
00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:37,120
Speaker 7: The former NBA bad boy owes more than eight hundred

534
00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:39,920
Speaker 7: thousand dollars in back child support for his two children,

535
00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:43,920
Speaker 7: ages nine and ten, that he had with third wife, Michelle.

536
00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:48,880
Speaker 2: Rodman, and behind the scenes, the general public has no idea.

537
00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:52,480
Speaker 2: There's a ton of other screwy stuff going on with

538
00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:56,440
Speaker 2: Dennis's finances too, exasperating his former manager.

539
00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:00,960
Speaker 7: Dennison called me and say, my cable is or my

540
00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:05,680
Speaker 7: power is off. He was renting out this place in Eventuro,

541
00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:09,440
Speaker 7: which is in North Miami. The landlord would call me

542
00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:13,280
Speaker 7: all the time like the rent is late, and I'm like,

543
00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:16,360
Speaker 7: what are you talking about? The rent is late. He's

544
00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:17,320
Speaker 7: got plenty of money.

545
00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:18,400
Speaker 4: Drench shouldn't be late.

546
00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:23,480
Speaker 2: Coming up this season on Queen of the Cohn like

547
00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:25,320
Speaker 2: the company that she kept, she must be legit.

548
00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:29,000
Speaker 4: These people are on national TV. Dennis rob Man, we

549
00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:31,840
Speaker 4: hung out with his homeboy. Oh you was robbing them too.

550
00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:34,680
Speaker 12: He and I in the early morning went to Peggy's

551
00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:37,680
Speaker 12: house because he had no money. She was just waking

552
00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:40,479
Speaker 12: up and she had a rob on. She's like, honey, honey,

553
00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:41,280
Speaker 12: I'm sleeping.

554
00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:42,560
Speaker 9: You have to come back later.

555
00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:43,520
Speaker 4: You know.

556
00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:46,640
Speaker 10: Dennis had a big RS leaned against him prior to

557
00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:47,120
Speaker 10: meeting me.

558
00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:49,800
Speaker 12: And we went to the bank and Elkins like, Dennis,

559
00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:51,080
Speaker 12: you don't have any money.

560
00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:56,320
Speaker 7: Something just did not add up with Elkins's relationship with Peggy.

561
00:31:56,640 --> 00:32:00,600
Speaker 4: Dennis Rodman confided in this guy. He told him dark

562
00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:01,720
Speaker 4: secrets and.

563
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:04,000
Speaker 12: I would tell Dennis like I don't want felcon hanging

564
00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:04,520
Speaker 12: around you.

565
00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:05,880
Speaker 4: He got shot in the face.

566
00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:09,200
Speaker 9: All Come said she was like scanning some drug dealers

567
00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:11,000
Speaker 9: in the streets or whatever, and I think that.

568
00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:12,920
Speaker 7: That is when he got caught up in so I

569
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:15,520
Speaker 7: met her through a close friend of mine.

570
00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:16,720
Speaker 2: What's your impression of.

571
00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:19,760
Speaker 10: For Peggy was somebody that would probably have sex with

572
00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:23,080
Speaker 10: win of our clients. He was infatuated with me, and

573
00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:26,840
Speaker 10: I said, you know what, You're sweet, You're very, very

574
00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:27,720
Speaker 10: very handsome.

575
00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:30,960
Speaker 2: Was there more than a professional relationship between Ricky Williams

576
00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:31,360
Speaker 2: and Peggy?

577
00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:33,280
Speaker 9: I've asked him a thousand million times.

578
00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:36,200
Speaker 5: Peggy Fulford is a financial predator?

579
00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:37,680
Speaker 2: How much were you missing?

580
00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:41,320
Speaker 4: It was my first rookie check, my first Ricky check.

581
00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:43,680
Speaker 4: I got a call from my agent and saying, Peggy

582
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:44,080
Speaker 4: got us.

583
00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:47,920
Speaker 9: Cops come in. You have a check sitting on your nightstand,

584
00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:49,520
Speaker 9: Like what is going on?

585
00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:53,040
Speaker 10: I did some things, but I didn't kill anybody. And

586
00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:55,400
Speaker 10: I believe that society will forgive me.

587
00:32:56,080 --> 00:32:59,320
Speaker 9: Hide your money and your old Richmond because she is

588
00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:00,120
Speaker 9: on the who.

589
00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:05,280
Speaker 2: If you're enjoying Queen of the Con, leave us a

590
00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:08,960
Speaker 2: five star review. Reviews, help other listeners find us, and

591
00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:12,440
Speaker 2: by all means click that share button and send Queen

592
00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:14,719
Speaker 2: of the Cohn to anyone you think might be into it.

593
00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:23,560
Speaker 2: Queen of the Cohn The Athlete Whisperer is a production

594
00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:27,880
Speaker 2: of AYR Media and iHeartMedia, hosted by me Jonathan Walton,

595
00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:32,840
Speaker 2: Executive producers Jonathan Walton for Jonathan Walton Productions and Elisa

596
00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:38,800
Speaker 2: Rosen for AYR Media. Consulting producer Evan Goldstein consulting producer

597
00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:44,760
Speaker 2: Trace Shean. Written by Jonathan Walton, Sound design by Zach Hirsch,

598
00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:50,240
Speaker 2: Edited and mixed by Zach Hirsch, Audio engineer Justin Longerbean,

599
00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:56,720
Speaker 2: audio engineer Chris Desmond, studio engineer Graham Gibson. Mastered by

600
00:33:57,160 --> 00:34:02,680
Speaker 2: Justin Longerbean. Legal counsel for AYR Media, Gianni Douglas, executive

601
00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:08,239
Speaker 2: producer for iHeartMedia. Maya Howard. Voice acting by Darnell Baldwin,

602
00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:16,839
Speaker 2: Tyree Saxton, Junior, Courtney, Hettrick Milan Faxis, Jorge Farragut, David Teitelbaum,

603
00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:27,080
Speaker 2: Terina Pouncey, Kim Ganier, Stuart Chait, Teresa Prindle. Statements from

604
00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:30,160
Speaker 2: press reports, public interviews, and from court records were dramatized

605
00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:33,239
Speaker 2: verbatim on this season of Queen of the Khan. B

606
00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:37,759
Speaker 2: E T's American Gangster Trap, Queens TNTs Rich and Shameless,

607
00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:43,479
Speaker 2: CNBC's American Greed, The Guardian, Sports Illustrated, The Times Picky June,

608
00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:48,160
Speaker 2: The Opportunist podcast, victim interviews and countless court records were

609
00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:51,080
Speaker 2: the sources used on this season of Queen of the Khan,