1 00:00:01,080 --> 00:00:04,080 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Tutor Dixon Podcast. Today, we have a 2 00:00:04,120 --> 00:00:07,600 Speaker 1: podcast that so many of you have been asking for. 3 00:00:07,960 --> 00:00:11,119 Speaker 1: It actually would shock you to see the messages in 4 00:00:11,160 --> 00:00:15,239 Speaker 1: my inbox from people who have been harmed by antidepressants, 5 00:00:15,520 --> 00:00:18,239 Speaker 1: and they've asked me to expose the truth so many 6 00:00:18,280 --> 00:00:21,239 Speaker 1: people that feel like they don't have a voice. And 7 00:00:21,280 --> 00:00:24,720 Speaker 1: that's not to say that all antidepressants are bad, but 8 00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:28,000 Speaker 1: it is to say that we need to allow people 9 00:00:28,080 --> 00:00:32,080 Speaker 1: to hear the full spectrum of risks associated with the 10 00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:34,840 Speaker 1: use of antidepressants before they get on them, so they 11 00:00:34,880 --> 00:00:37,400 Speaker 1: know what they're getting into. And it seems like that 12 00:00:37,520 --> 00:00:40,879 Speaker 1: hasn't been happening for me. These issues are near and 13 00:00:40,920 --> 00:00:43,040 Speaker 1: dear to my heart, and I've been searching for a 14 00:00:43,080 --> 00:00:45,680 Speaker 1: way to bring this to the light and that actually 15 00:00:45,800 --> 00:00:49,840 Speaker 1: led me to a wonderful doctor named doctor Joanna Moncrief. 16 00:00:50,280 --> 00:00:54,720 Speaker 1: Doctor Moncrief wrote a book Chemically Imbalanced, the Making and 17 00:00:54,880 --> 00:00:59,040 Speaker 1: Unmaking of the Saratonin myth, which I was like, Okay, 18 00:00:59,240 --> 00:01:02,240 Speaker 1: this this, this is something where we just don't talk about, 19 00:01:02,240 --> 00:01:05,039 Speaker 1: we haven't heard about. So we have doctor Moncrief here 20 00:01:05,080 --> 00:01:07,480 Speaker 1: with us today. She is an expert on the subject. 21 00:01:07,480 --> 00:01:11,480 Speaker 1: She's also a practicing psychiatrist for the National Health Service 22 00:01:11,560 --> 00:01:15,000 Speaker 1: in the United Kingdom. She's also a professor, and I 23 00:01:15,040 --> 00:01:17,840 Speaker 1: want to thank her for stepping into what seems to 24 00:01:17,880 --> 00:01:20,920 Speaker 1: be kind of dangerous territory in your profession, sharing the 25 00:01:20,920 --> 00:01:21,600 Speaker 1: truth about this. 26 00:01:21,760 --> 00:01:25,280 Speaker 2: Thank you, Thank you for having me on Judah. It's 27 00:01:25,360 --> 00:01:26,720 Speaker 2: good to be able to spread the word. 28 00:01:27,800 --> 00:01:30,160 Speaker 1: Absolutely. So I want to get into the book because 29 00:01:30,760 --> 00:01:34,479 Speaker 1: you start the book by debunking this kind of longtime myth. 30 00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:38,120 Speaker 1: You say, there's no evidence showing that depression is caused 31 00:01:38,160 --> 00:01:42,080 Speaker 1: by an abnormality in the brain chemical serotonin. Explain that. 32 00:01:43,680 --> 00:01:46,800 Speaker 2: So for a long time there's been a theory kicking 33 00:01:46,840 --> 00:01:51,880 Speaker 2: around that depression might be caused by a chemical imbalance, 34 00:01:51,960 --> 00:01:57,400 Speaker 2: such as a lack of serotonin. But although people didn't 35 00:01:57,440 --> 00:01:59,960 Speaker 2: realize that it was just a theory, because people had 36 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:03,120 Speaker 2: been led to believe this was an established scientific fact. 37 00:02:03,600 --> 00:02:07,680 Speaker 2: It turns out that actually the evidence for it was 38 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:11,359 Speaker 2: never looked as if it was very strong or all 39 00:02:11,480 --> 00:02:15,520 Speaker 2: very compelling. But there was nowhere There was nowhere where 40 00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:17,480 Speaker 2: you could go until a few years ago when we 41 00:02:17,520 --> 00:02:19,960 Speaker 2: published a paper where you could see all the research 42 00:02:20,160 --> 00:02:24,239 Speaker 2: on serotonin and depression together in one place. So a 43 00:02:24,280 --> 00:02:26,440 Speaker 2: few years ago, I got a little team together and 44 00:02:26,480 --> 00:02:29,720 Speaker 2: we identified all the recent research that's been done on 45 00:02:29,760 --> 00:02:34,600 Speaker 2: serotonin and depression, looking at various different aspects of the 46 00:02:34,639 --> 00:02:40,919 Speaker 2: serotonin system, like serotonin itself, serotonin metabolite, serotonin receptors, etc. 47 00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:45,239 Speaker 2: And we found that none of those areas of research 48 00:02:45,560 --> 00:02:49,240 Speaker 2: showed consistent or compelling evidence that there was any sort 49 00:02:49,280 --> 00:02:52,880 Speaker 2: of abnormality in the serotonin system in people with depression, 50 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:57,519 Speaker 2: let alone a causal abnormality consisting of a lack of serotonin. 51 00:02:59,080 --> 00:03:01,960 Speaker 1: This is, to me, is shocking because we've had so 52 00:03:02,040 --> 00:03:05,560 Speaker 1: many people say, you don't understand I have a brain 53 00:03:05,639 --> 00:03:09,320 Speaker 1: chemical disparity. You know, I have a true problem. And 54 00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:12,760 Speaker 1: I think that hearing that you know, missing a brain 55 00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:17,480 Speaker 1: chemical is really a tangible problem, and that is a problem. 56 00:03:17,560 --> 00:03:19,680 Speaker 1: A tangible problem seems to be something you can prove. 57 00:03:20,120 --> 00:03:23,960 Speaker 1: And therefore, a parent or a spouse, or even the 58 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:27,800 Speaker 1: patient who says, my gosh, I have a deficiency in serotonin. 59 00:03:28,280 --> 00:03:31,600 Speaker 1: I must jump on this medication bandwagon because that's going 60 00:03:31,639 --> 00:03:34,880 Speaker 1: to fix the deficiency. That is an excuse to go 61 00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:37,640 Speaker 1: out and say I have to be on this medication. 62 00:03:37,680 --> 00:03:39,320 Speaker 1: But it's not even an excuse when you're in that 63 00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:41,920 Speaker 1: position you feel like the doctor tells me this, I 64 00:03:41,960 --> 00:03:44,400 Speaker 1: trust the doctor. I have to go on this. There's 65 00:03:44,440 --> 00:03:47,800 Speaker 1: these terrible side effects. Suddenly there's a broken trust, but 66 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:48,720 Speaker 1: no one will listen. 67 00:03:49,760 --> 00:03:54,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, no, absolutely. So this idea was promoted by the 68 00:03:54,280 --> 00:03:58,880 Speaker 2: pharmaceutical industry when they were marketing the SSRI antidepressants back 69 00:03:58,920 --> 00:04:02,520 Speaker 2: in the late nighteen eighties and nineteen nineties. And at 70 00:04:02,520 --> 00:04:08,000 Speaker 2: this time they very deliberately set out to persuade people 71 00:04:08,480 --> 00:04:11,800 Speaker 2: that depression is something that's in the brain, is caused 72 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:17,960 Speaker 2: by brain chemicals, and to override people's previous instincts that 73 00:04:18,080 --> 00:04:21,240 Speaker 2: depression is a reaction to things that are going on 74 00:04:21,279 --> 00:04:28,400 Speaker 2: in your life. So, and that campaign was enormously successful, 75 00:04:28,760 --> 00:04:31,679 Speaker 2: partly because they threw an awful lot of money at it, 76 00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:35,239 Speaker 2: partly because what they were putting across was, as you suggest, 77 00:04:35,279 --> 00:04:37,920 Speaker 2: you know, a sort of simple idea that people could 78 00:04:37,960 --> 00:04:41,080 Speaker 2: latch onto and that has some appeal. You know, when 79 00:04:41,080 --> 00:04:44,440 Speaker 2: you're feeling really at your debts and you're really distressed, 80 00:04:44,440 --> 00:04:47,760 Speaker 2: the idea that oh, it's not me, it's not my life, 81 00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:50,360 Speaker 2: it's just a simple problem in my brain. And whoa, 82 00:04:50,920 --> 00:04:53,120 Speaker 2: look at this. The doctor's got a solution for it. 83 00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:56,360 Speaker 2: How handy, I can take this antidepressant and everything will 84 00:04:56,400 --> 00:04:58,840 Speaker 2: be all right. So, you know, I think I think 85 00:04:58,839 --> 00:05:01,039 Speaker 2: it was this combination of all the money that went 86 00:05:01,080 --> 00:05:03,240 Speaker 2: into promoting this idea with the fact that it was 87 00:05:03,279 --> 00:05:09,280 Speaker 2: this nice, simple, appealing little story that people could that 88 00:05:09,440 --> 00:05:12,960 Speaker 2: observe to could accept to explain their difficulties. 89 00:05:13,720 --> 00:05:17,160 Speaker 1: I think you're saying correctly, though, it's this idea that 90 00:05:17,200 --> 00:05:21,200 Speaker 1: you have a biological condition that a medication can solve 91 00:05:21,400 --> 00:05:25,600 Speaker 1: and it will save your life. That's significant, absolutely. 92 00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:32,599 Speaker 2: I mean, it's an incredibly misleading story when we know 93 00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:38,080 Speaker 2: that actually it's not supported by scientific evidence, because it's 94 00:05:39,080 --> 00:05:41,760 Speaker 2: you know, it persuades people that you say that there's 95 00:05:41,760 --> 00:05:44,120 Speaker 2: something you know that there's something wrong with your brain, 96 00:05:44,520 --> 00:05:46,920 Speaker 2: therefore you need to take a drug to put it right. 97 00:05:47,640 --> 00:05:51,359 Speaker 2: If you were told instead, which is actually the situation, 98 00:05:52,080 --> 00:05:54,760 Speaker 2: We've got no idea what's going on in your brain. 99 00:05:56,040 --> 00:05:58,520 Speaker 2: Your feelings are probably a reaction to things that are 100 00:05:58,560 --> 00:06:02,240 Speaker 2: going on in your life and your environment. We've got 101 00:06:02,400 --> 00:06:06,680 Speaker 2: drugs that mess about with your brain chemicals in some way, 102 00:06:06,680 --> 00:06:10,120 Speaker 2: but we don't understand quite quite how, quite what they're doing, 103 00:06:10,200 --> 00:06:14,000 Speaker 2: quite how they affect people. But we've done these trials 104 00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:16,440 Speaker 2: that show they're a tiny little bit better than placebo, 105 00:06:16,520 --> 00:06:18,640 Speaker 2: although actually if we did the trials properly, we might 106 00:06:18,680 --> 00:06:23,760 Speaker 2: not see any difference, and they cause all these health problems, 107 00:06:23,880 --> 00:06:25,920 Speaker 2: especially if you take them for a long period of time. 108 00:06:26,320 --> 00:06:29,520 Speaker 2: Then people would be a lot more cautious about, you know, 109 00:06:29,560 --> 00:06:31,800 Speaker 2: about taking antidepressants. Then it would be you know, a 110 00:06:31,839 --> 00:06:36,440 Speaker 2: whole different a whole different ballgame. So, you know, by 111 00:06:36,520 --> 00:06:39,200 Speaker 2: telling people we've got this brain chemical imbalance, we've got 112 00:06:39,200 --> 00:06:43,280 Speaker 2: a drug that puts it right, without there being scientific 113 00:06:43,279 --> 00:06:47,000 Speaker 2: evidence to back that up, we've been profoundly misleading people 114 00:06:47,320 --> 00:06:52,080 Speaker 2: and stopping people from making properly informed decisions about whether 115 00:06:52,200 --> 00:06:54,200 Speaker 2: to take these chemicals or not. 116 00:06:55,480 --> 00:07:00,039 Speaker 1: It's not just that you're taking a chemical, it's so 117 00:07:00,120 --> 00:07:02,719 Speaker 1: many of these people have come out and said, my 118 00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:05,640 Speaker 1: life has never been the same. I have never felt 119 00:07:05,720 --> 00:07:09,559 Speaker 1: life again. Really, I've never had the human experience again. 120 00:07:09,920 --> 00:07:12,440 Speaker 1: And yet for us to talk about this right now 121 00:07:12,480 --> 00:07:15,360 Speaker 1: it is controversial, And I say, how is this not 122 00:07:15,480 --> 00:07:20,200 Speaker 1: a massive crisis that the health organizations are saying pharmaceutical 123 00:07:20,240 --> 00:07:22,720 Speaker 1: companies need to step up and tell the truth about this. 124 00:07:22,840 --> 00:07:26,200 Speaker 1: But it's like everyone's in cohoots and people are suffering. 125 00:07:27,080 --> 00:07:27,240 Speaker 3: Yeah. 126 00:07:27,360 --> 00:07:33,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, So this idea that antidepressants corrected and underlying chemical 127 00:07:33,920 --> 00:07:39,880 Speaker 2: imbalance was helped to obscure the fact that antidepressants, like 128 00:07:40,040 --> 00:07:44,080 Speaker 2: other drugs that work on the brain, change our normal 129 00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:48,640 Speaker 2: brain chemistry and therefore change our normal mental states and 130 00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:53,080 Speaker 2: normal mental activities, including our emotions, our thought processes, and 131 00:07:53,120 --> 00:07:57,360 Speaker 2: sometimes our behavior in more or less subtle ways. Because 132 00:07:57,400 --> 00:08:01,400 Speaker 2: antidepressants differ from each other and different from other mind 133 00:08:01,440 --> 00:08:07,400 Speaker 2: altering drugs, but the point is that they are drugs 134 00:08:07,400 --> 00:08:11,040 Speaker 2: that do alter our normal brain chemistry, make us feel different, 135 00:08:11,480 --> 00:08:14,960 Speaker 2: and one of the one of the changes that they 136 00:08:15,040 --> 00:08:19,000 Speaker 2: seem to effect most commonly is that they dampen down 137 00:08:19,200 --> 00:08:25,920 Speaker 2: or numb people's emotions and restrict people's emotional range, so 138 00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:29,680 Speaker 2: that people so as well as maybe feeling less distressed 139 00:08:29,760 --> 00:08:34,320 Speaker 2: or less anxious, people feel less less happy, less joyful, 140 00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:38,080 Speaker 2: less excited by things in life. So, as you say, 141 00:08:38,320 --> 00:08:42,920 Speaker 2: antidepressants seem to have this property of restricting us emotionally. 142 00:08:44,559 --> 00:08:48,400 Speaker 2: Some people might feel that that effect is useful for them, 143 00:08:48,400 --> 00:08:51,240 Speaker 2: at least temporarily, if they're going through, you know, a 144 00:08:51,280 --> 00:08:58,160 Speaker 2: period of distress and feeling intense negative emotions but it 145 00:08:58,280 --> 00:09:02,760 Speaker 2: seems intuitive that certainly in the long term, numbing people's 146 00:09:02,800 --> 00:09:05,760 Speaker 2: emotions is not a good thing to do. It's not 147 00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:09,240 Speaker 2: going to help people resolve the problems in their lives. 148 00:09:09,480 --> 00:09:12,760 Speaker 2: It's not going to help people build, you know, good 149 00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:18,079 Speaker 2: solid relation and lasting relationships. 150 00:09:18,360 --> 00:09:21,360 Speaker 1: I want to share I have some of the statements 151 00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:22,959 Speaker 1: here that people have shared with me, and I want 152 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:24,920 Speaker 1: to get to that, but I want to talk a 153 00:09:24,920 --> 00:09:27,760 Speaker 1: little bit about what you just said. These are experiences, 154 00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:33,439 Speaker 1: and sometimes you go through bouts of sadness or even depression, 155 00:09:34,080 --> 00:09:37,360 Speaker 1: but they're part of the human experience. Like we're meant 156 00:09:37,400 --> 00:09:39,800 Speaker 1: to believe that you're never supposed to feel sad, that 157 00:09:39,840 --> 00:09:42,880 Speaker 1: you're never supposed to have periods of sadness, But there 158 00:09:42,920 --> 00:09:45,720 Speaker 1: are times where life is a struggle. I mean even 159 00:09:46,120 --> 00:09:48,600 Speaker 1: as a sixteen year old. I have a sixteen year 160 00:09:48,600 --> 00:09:51,000 Speaker 1: old or a fourteen year old going through high school. 161 00:09:51,200 --> 00:09:54,520 Speaker 1: There are times when they feel sad, they feel out 162 00:09:54,520 --> 00:09:59,040 Speaker 1: of place. We talk through that they aren't looking for 163 00:09:59,520 --> 00:10:01,800 Speaker 1: they don't want to feel nothing. But I think that 164 00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:05,480 Speaker 1: they're miss These kids are also misled, and parents are misled. 165 00:10:05,480 --> 00:10:08,040 Speaker 1: When a child is going through a dark time, will 166 00:10:08,040 --> 00:10:10,319 Speaker 1: make it so they feel nothing and they'll come through 167 00:10:10,360 --> 00:10:12,320 Speaker 1: the other side. But it's not always easy to get 168 00:10:12,360 --> 00:10:14,920 Speaker 1: off of these either, once you do put somebody on 169 00:10:14,960 --> 00:10:15,760 Speaker 1: these medications. 170 00:10:16,480 --> 00:10:18,560 Speaker 2: No, it's not. And I think the idea of putting 171 00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:22,480 Speaker 2: teenagers on them particularly is you know, is really worrying 172 00:10:22,520 --> 00:10:25,320 Speaker 2: because of course, you know, your teenage years are a 173 00:10:25,400 --> 00:10:29,880 Speaker 2: period when you feel things very intensely, and so you know, 174 00:10:29,960 --> 00:10:35,320 Speaker 2: you can you can understand how teenagers' parents might be, 175 00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:38,719 Speaker 2: you know, looking for a way to numb themselves. 176 00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:42,520 Speaker 1: But I think if teenagers is hard. 177 00:10:43,120 --> 00:10:47,760 Speaker 2: Yes, exactly, but if people don't go through this period 178 00:10:47,840 --> 00:10:50,319 Speaker 2: and learn that, first of all, they come out the 179 00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:53,959 Speaker 2: other side, you know, things get less intense, just naturally, 180 00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:57,920 Speaker 2: but also they learn how to manage those feelings. And 181 00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:02,199 Speaker 2: if they don't learn those lessons because they're numbed, you know, 182 00:11:02,280 --> 00:11:05,600 Speaker 2: I'm worried that people are going into adult life in 183 00:11:05,640 --> 00:11:08,200 Speaker 2: such a way that they might not be able to 184 00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:11,360 Speaker 2: deal with emotional crises and things that you know, are 185 00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:12,560 Speaker 2: thrown at them in the future. 186 00:11:13,320 --> 00:11:15,319 Speaker 1: You had some stories in the book about people who 187 00:11:15,400 --> 00:11:18,439 Speaker 1: said that they said, I was put on antidepressants when 188 00:11:18,520 --> 00:11:21,280 Speaker 1: I was in my teenage years, and it was almost 189 00:11:21,360 --> 00:11:24,320 Speaker 1: as though I missed that emotional growth, and I'm not 190 00:11:24,440 --> 00:11:27,680 Speaker 1: prepared for what I have in my adult life because 191 00:11:27,679 --> 00:11:30,480 Speaker 1: I just have missing years. Yeah. 192 00:11:30,559 --> 00:11:36,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, And you also mentioned how, you know, get people 193 00:11:36,640 --> 00:11:38,679 Speaker 2: can get onto these drugs and be on them for 194 00:11:38,880 --> 00:11:40,680 Speaker 2: you know, years at a time and then have great 195 00:11:40,679 --> 00:11:43,679 Speaker 2: difficulty coming off them. So, you know, particularly if we're 196 00:11:43,679 --> 00:11:48,360 Speaker 2: starting people on them young, you know, we're potentially going 197 00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:49,920 Speaker 2: to end up with a with a whole load of 198 00:11:49,960 --> 00:11:52,680 Speaker 2: adults who are stuck on these tablets, having real difficulty 199 00:11:52,720 --> 00:11:55,800 Speaker 2: getting off them, and have been you know, emotionally suppressed 200 00:11:55,840 --> 00:11:56,360 Speaker 2: for years. 201 00:11:57,360 --> 00:11:59,680 Speaker 1: We'll be right back with more of my conversation with 202 00:11:59,720 --> 00:12:02,320 Speaker 1: doctor Joanna Moncrief, but first I want to bring you 203 00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:05,440 Speaker 1: a message from my partners at IFCJ. It was nearly 204 00:12:05,520 --> 00:12:08,600 Speaker 1: two years ago that terrorists murdered more than twelve hundred 205 00:12:08,640 --> 00:12:11,640 Speaker 1: innocent Israelis and took two hundred and fifty hostages. 206 00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:14,480 Speaker 3: Today, it almost seems like the cries of the dead 207 00:12:14,520 --> 00:12:18,200 Speaker 3: and the dying have been drown out by anti Semitic hatred. 208 00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:20,440 Speaker 3: I know you've heard it in the United States, We've 209 00:12:20,480 --> 00:12:22,560 Speaker 3: heard it all over the world, and now the most 210 00:12:22,559 --> 00:12:25,439 Speaker 3: brutal attack on the Jewish people since the Holocaust has 211 00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:28,120 Speaker 3: been forgotten. Yet as the world looks away, there's a 212 00:12:28,200 --> 00:12:31,400 Speaker 3: light that shines in the darkness. It's a movement of 213 00:12:31,480 --> 00:12:34,480 Speaker 3: love and support for the people of Israel called Flags 214 00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:38,400 Speaker 3: of Fellowship, and it's organized by the International Fellowship of 215 00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:42,480 Speaker 3: Christians and Jews. On October fifth, just a few weeks away, 216 00:12:42,920 --> 00:12:46,719 Speaker 3: millions across America will prayerfully plant an Israeli flag in 217 00:12:46,880 --> 00:12:50,720 Speaker 3: honor and solidarity with the victims of October seventh. 218 00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:53,720 Speaker 1: Twenty twenty three and their grieving families. And now you 219 00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:56,040 Speaker 1: can be a part of this movement too. To get 220 00:12:56,040 --> 00:12:58,440 Speaker 1: more information about how you can join the Flags of 221 00:12:58,480 --> 00:13:03,360 Speaker 1: Fellowship movement, visit Fellowship online at IFCJ dot org. That's 222 00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:07,559 Speaker 1: IFCJ dot org. Stay tuned. We've got more right after this. 223 00:13:10,840 --> 00:13:12,800 Speaker 1: So it's interesting. I was talking to my kids about 224 00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:16,640 Speaker 1: this last night because they they say almost they feel 225 00:13:16,679 --> 00:13:19,960 Speaker 1: like many, probably more than half of the kids in 226 00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:22,680 Speaker 1: their school are on some type of medication. Whether that's 227 00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:25,480 Speaker 1: true or not, it seems like that's the case. And 228 00:13:25,520 --> 00:13:28,400 Speaker 1: you talked about the advertisements in the nineties and the 229 00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:31,440 Speaker 1: early two thousands that made it like, hey, this is 230 00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:33,480 Speaker 1: what we should all be on. This is very normal, 231 00:13:33,520 --> 00:13:35,280 Speaker 1: and I do think that people are more willing to 232 00:13:35,320 --> 00:13:37,480 Speaker 1: talk about it. When I was, I was telling them. 233 00:13:37,480 --> 00:13:40,240 Speaker 1: When I was in high school, I don't remember anybody 234 00:13:40,320 --> 00:13:43,040 Speaker 1: being on medication. That was like the beginning of prozac 235 00:13:43,679 --> 00:13:47,560 Speaker 1: and the beginning of antidepressants, but it really wasn't something 236 00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:51,120 Speaker 1: that people were regularly talking about. And I feel like, 237 00:13:52,280 --> 00:13:54,320 Speaker 1: I know that you have a nostalgia from when you're young, 238 00:13:54,360 --> 00:13:59,040 Speaker 1: but it seemed like people's interpersonal relationships were much healthier. 239 00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:01,520 Speaker 1: I graduated in Night Team ninety five from high school, 240 00:14:01,920 --> 00:14:05,160 Speaker 1: and after that we started to see this skyrocket in 241 00:14:05,240 --> 00:14:09,760 Speaker 1: antidepressants and actually aggression in teenagers as well. 242 00:14:10,720 --> 00:14:14,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean, we live in a culture where 243 00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:17,400 Speaker 2: everyone is much more open about mental health problems, and 244 00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:20,160 Speaker 2: I think that, you know, has positive and negative sides 245 00:14:20,200 --> 00:14:21,800 Speaker 2: to it. You know. I don't think it's good if 246 00:14:21,800 --> 00:14:25,320 Speaker 2: people are bottling up problems and suffering alone, and it's 247 00:14:25,360 --> 00:14:28,600 Speaker 2: good if people feel they can share, you know, how 248 00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:32,360 Speaker 2: they're feeling emotionally and share their difficulties with people. On 249 00:14:32,440 --> 00:14:35,280 Speaker 2: the other hand, I'm afraid that that leads to this 250 00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:40,640 Speaker 2: tendency to diagnose and label people as having mental disorders 251 00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:43,800 Speaker 2: that need you know that need drugs to put them right. 252 00:14:44,280 --> 00:14:46,640 Speaker 2: And clearly that's how it has progressed, you know, because 253 00:14:46,640 --> 00:14:48,920 Speaker 2: we've just been you know, using more and more of 254 00:14:48,960 --> 00:14:53,800 Speaker 2: these drugs, labeling more and more young people. And not 255 00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:55,960 Speaker 2: only does that mean they might end up on these 256 00:14:56,000 --> 00:14:59,240 Speaker 2: emotions suppressing drugs for years, it also means they grow 257 00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:02,160 Speaker 2: up with this side that they're faulty in some way 258 00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:04,840 Speaker 2: that they've got you know, that they've got a biological fault, 259 00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:07,280 Speaker 2: and that there's nothing that they can do about it. 260 00:15:08,720 --> 00:15:11,080 Speaker 2: That you know that they're always going to you know 261 00:15:11,120 --> 00:15:12,640 Speaker 2: that they're always going to struggle. 262 00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:17,240 Speaker 1: That's an interesting statement because I think when you are 263 00:15:17,280 --> 00:15:20,920 Speaker 1: in high school, when you're going through puberty, you feel 264 00:15:20,960 --> 00:15:23,280 Speaker 1: like you're broken in all kinds of ways. I'm not 265 00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:25,680 Speaker 1: good enough, I'm not pretty enough, i have acne, I'm 266 00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:28,800 Speaker 1: not i'm not as developed, you know, I'm shorter, all 267 00:15:28,880 --> 00:15:30,760 Speaker 1: of these different things that you go through in your 268 00:15:30,800 --> 00:15:32,600 Speaker 1: mind because you don't know what you are as a 269 00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:36,040 Speaker 1: final product, and you're wondering and you're anxious about it. 270 00:15:36,080 --> 00:15:39,760 Speaker 1: And that's normal. But if you stop that emotional growth 271 00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:42,400 Speaker 1: at that point, do you ever get out of thinking 272 00:15:42,440 --> 00:15:44,920 Speaker 1: there's something wrong with me? Yeah? 273 00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:48,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, No, absolutely. I mean it's that intense time, isn't it. 274 00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:51,840 Speaker 2: High school when you're you're you're with so many people 275 00:15:51,880 --> 00:15:54,880 Speaker 2: of your own age groups, so you're constantly comparing yourself. 276 00:15:55,600 --> 00:15:59,560 Speaker 2: And as I said, I think, you know, what antidepressants 277 00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:03,960 Speaker 2: doing is suppressing your emotions so that you're not necessarily 278 00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:07,800 Speaker 2: then able to learn that actually you can manage to 279 00:16:07,800 --> 00:16:10,160 Speaker 2: get a grip on them, and they do get less 280 00:16:10,160 --> 00:16:13,480 Speaker 2: intense and you do get through these difficult periods in life. 281 00:16:13,920 --> 00:16:17,520 Speaker 2: We should also maybe mention maybe you're coming onto it, 282 00:16:17,080 --> 00:16:21,520 Speaker 2: but that you know, alongside the emotional blunting, they cause 283 00:16:22,040 --> 00:16:25,760 Speaker 2: sexual dysfunction. Very well recognized that they call the you know, 284 00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:29,400 Speaker 2: the antidepressants cause sexual dysfunction while people are taking them. 285 00:16:29,920 --> 00:16:34,280 Speaker 2: But what's becoming more and more apparent over recent years 286 00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:38,240 Speaker 2: is that for some people, these sexual problems persist after 287 00:16:38,360 --> 00:16:42,360 Speaker 2: they've stopped taking the antidepressant. And this seems to me 288 00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:46,560 Speaker 2: to be a huge issue that and I should say 289 00:16:46,560 --> 00:16:49,000 Speaker 2: as well that this has been shown in animal studies. 290 00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:53,560 Speaker 2: So it's not just that people who've taken antidepressants are 291 00:16:53,760 --> 00:16:56,680 Speaker 2: depressed and that's why they're not having a great sex life. 292 00:16:56,960 --> 00:17:00,120 Speaker 2: It has been shown in animal studies. It looks like 293 00:17:00,160 --> 00:17:02,680 Speaker 2: it's a biological effect. 294 00:17:03,920 --> 00:17:08,159 Speaker 1: Is that That's the number one question I got from people, 295 00:17:08,240 --> 00:17:10,560 Speaker 1: and that was I think that was the part that 296 00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:14,600 Speaker 1: surprised me the most was the people. As soon as 297 00:17:14,640 --> 00:17:16,439 Speaker 1: we put out we're going to be talking about this 298 00:17:16,520 --> 00:17:20,280 Speaker 1: stuff on a podcast this week, the number of people 299 00:17:20,320 --> 00:17:25,480 Speaker 1: who came out and openly on X, on a here, 300 00:17:25,520 --> 00:17:29,080 Speaker 1: on a public platform, came out and said, please talk 301 00:17:29,119 --> 00:17:32,200 Speaker 1: about what this is doing to people, and you talk 302 00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:35,000 Speaker 1: about the experience of being on these So I just 303 00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:37,919 Speaker 1: want to read a little portion from your book. You say. 304 00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:43,800 Speaker 1: They reported their ability to experience positive emotions such as joy, excitement, enthusiasm, 305 00:17:43,840 --> 00:17:46,800 Speaker 1: and happiness was diminished, as well as the intensity of 306 00:17:46,920 --> 00:17:51,920 Speaker 1: negative feelings such as sadness, anger, irritability, and anxiety. They 307 00:17:51,920 --> 00:17:56,080 Speaker 1: felt less love or affection for their family members and friends, 308 00:17:56,240 --> 00:18:00,560 Speaker 1: and their interest in life had been diminished. Don't even 309 00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:03,760 Speaker 1: we're not even getting to the sexual side effects yet, 310 00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:07,280 Speaker 1: we're looking at Suddenly you have a family member who 311 00:18:07,320 --> 00:18:10,959 Speaker 1: you think, and trust me, we've been there in our family. 312 00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:14,280 Speaker 1: You think you put somebody on this medication, it's going 313 00:18:14,320 --> 00:18:16,920 Speaker 1: to help them calm down, it's going to help them 314 00:18:17,040 --> 00:18:20,440 Speaker 1: have a better life, and suddenly you lose that person. 315 00:18:20,760 --> 00:18:23,760 Speaker 1: I mean you really lose them. Because when you say 316 00:18:24,119 --> 00:18:27,399 Speaker 1: in your book they felt less love or affection for 317 00:18:27,520 --> 00:18:31,119 Speaker 1: family members and friends, and their interest in life diminished, 318 00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:34,000 Speaker 1: what do you think that does to their children, to 319 00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:37,400 Speaker 1: their parents, to their spouse. Yeah. 320 00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:41,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, I've been hearing more and more comments from family 321 00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:46,560 Speaker 2: members along these lines, talking about the changes that these 322 00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:51,480 Speaker 2: drugs can cause in people and the emotional distance that 323 00:18:51,520 --> 00:18:57,520 Speaker 2: they can create in relationships. When someone is taking one 324 00:18:57,560 --> 00:18:59,919 Speaker 2: of these drugs, it's like a victim. 325 00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:02,760 Speaker 1: And that's the thing that makes me mad about these 326 00:19:03,920 --> 00:19:06,480 Speaker 1: The health organizations won't come out and say we've got 327 00:19:06,600 --> 00:19:09,640 Speaker 1: many victims. We've got victims who have taken the medication, 328 00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:12,560 Speaker 1: and we have victims who are in the family who 329 00:19:12,560 --> 00:19:15,800 Speaker 1: have lost somebody who is taking the medications. And victim 330 00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:18,320 Speaker 1: may sound like a strong word, but this seems like 331 00:19:18,440 --> 00:19:21,639 Speaker 1: a national health emergency to me, and we're not talking 332 00:19:21,640 --> 00:19:24,320 Speaker 1: about it. And now I do want to say, talk 333 00:19:24,359 --> 00:19:28,919 Speaker 1: about spousal relationships and even relationships for young people, people 334 00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:32,480 Speaker 1: trying to have a relationship. These antidepressants. When you talk 335 00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:35,800 Speaker 1: about reduce sexual desire, we are talking about so much 336 00:19:35,880 --> 00:19:39,400 Speaker 1: more than what people can imagine you've got reduced sexual desire, 337 00:19:39,720 --> 00:19:45,200 Speaker 1: decreased sexual excitement, delay and reducing the intensity of an orgasm, 338 00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:50,239 Speaker 1: and a rectile dysfunction, problems, delayed ejaculation. I mean, these 339 00:19:50,280 --> 00:19:52,240 Speaker 1: are hard things to talk about, but I have so 340 00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:56,159 Speaker 1: many people telling me this is what they're experiencing. And 341 00:19:56,200 --> 00:19:58,240 Speaker 1: the crazy thing to me in your book, you say 342 00:19:58,760 --> 00:20:03,040 Speaker 1: that these are actually prescribed to sex offenders to reduce 343 00:20:03,080 --> 00:20:06,880 Speaker 1: their sex drive. How if you are depressed and you say, 344 00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:09,320 Speaker 1: I'm boy, life is really hard. How is like, hey, 345 00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:11,080 Speaker 1: let me give you something that I'll make you never 346 00:20:11,119 --> 00:20:13,000 Speaker 1: want to have sex again, or you will want to 347 00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:14,880 Speaker 1: have sex saying you won't be able to How does 348 00:20:14,920 --> 00:20:16,440 Speaker 1: that help people that are depressed. 349 00:20:17,320 --> 00:20:20,840 Speaker 2: I know, it's really shocking, isn't it. Genital numbing is 350 00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:26,800 Speaker 2: the most characteristic effect of SSRIs and similar antidepressants, and 351 00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:31,080 Speaker 2: then of course that leads to all sorts of problems 352 00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:38,679 Speaker 2: like difficulty having orgasm and erectileisfunction and things. And yeah, 353 00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:41,560 Speaker 2: I mean, you know, really shocking. When you talk about victims. 354 00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:45,720 Speaker 2: I don't think it's too strong a word because people 355 00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:49,800 Speaker 2: who have significant problems with their sexual function or the 356 00:20:49,920 --> 00:20:55,400 Speaker 2: people who are really struggling with prolonged withdrawal states. Many 357 00:20:55,480 --> 00:20:57,880 Speaker 2: of them are in a terrible state. You know, their 358 00:20:57,920 --> 00:21:01,440 Speaker 2: lives have been absolutely turned upside down. You know, people 359 00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:04,200 Speaker 2: who are in these withdrawal states, many of them can't 360 00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:07,560 Speaker 2: go to work anymore. They you know, they lose their 361 00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:11,560 Speaker 2: relationships because they're so unwell. Some of them are you know, 362 00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:13,720 Speaker 2: you can't even get out of bed for weeks or 363 00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:17,280 Speaker 2: months at a time, so it can be really serious. 364 00:21:17,359 --> 00:21:19,959 Speaker 2: And of course, the people who have this, you know, 365 00:21:20,119 --> 00:21:24,120 Speaker 2: persistent sexual dysfunction, you know, many of them are young 366 00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:27,960 Speaker 2: people just at the start of their you know, relationship life, 367 00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:32,679 Speaker 2: and suddenly things are not working properly. They've lost their desire, 368 00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:35,600 Speaker 2: they've lost their interest, and yet they know that they 369 00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:38,800 Speaker 2: should have it. So of course this is absolutely tragic 370 00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:40,919 Speaker 2: for these people and for the people around them. 371 00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:43,800 Speaker 1: As you write about a woman in the book who 372 00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:47,080 Speaker 1: says that as soon as she took it, within days 373 00:21:47,080 --> 00:21:50,040 Speaker 1: of taking the anterdepressant, she could no longer She had 374 00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:52,760 Speaker 1: no longer any feeling in her genitals, she had no 375 00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:56,000 Speaker 1: longer any feeling, and she thought, well, as soon as 376 00:21:56,040 --> 00:21:58,159 Speaker 1: I get into a relationship, I'll go off of this. 377 00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:01,320 Speaker 1: It'll go away. She did, she found a relationship, she 378 00:22:01,359 --> 00:22:04,200 Speaker 1: went off with the medication, and she said, no desire 379 00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:07,800 Speaker 1: for sex, no feeling, no feeling, no feeling whatsoever down there. 380 00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:11,480 Speaker 1: I just cannot get past that. And she never married, 381 00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:14,680 Speaker 1: she never had a relationship because that eventually that broke 382 00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:17,399 Speaker 1: down because the person couldn't handle the fact that she 383 00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:21,000 Speaker 1: had no sexual desires. This is criminal, as far as 384 00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:26,560 Speaker 1: I'm concerned. Robbing someone of the human experience should be criminal. 385 00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:29,399 Speaker 1: How can this continue? How is that these people aren't 386 00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:32,119 Speaker 1: told just so you know, you'll go on this and 387 00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:35,000 Speaker 1: you may feel less anxiety, but you might never feel 388 00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:35,720 Speaker 1: anything else. 389 00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:41,200 Speaker 2: And I know, I mean people really at least people 390 00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:46,800 Speaker 2: really really need to know about these complications, this possibility. 391 00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:49,520 Speaker 2: And the other thing is I would have said to 392 00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:51,520 Speaker 2: you if i'd come on a couple of months ago, 393 00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:53,960 Speaker 2: a few months ago, Oh, I think this is pretty rare, 394 00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:58,239 Speaker 2: you know, not minusculely rare, because there are so many 395 00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:00,760 Speaker 2: people talking about a bit pretty rare. Actually, there've been 396 00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:03,760 Speaker 2: studies coming out recently that suggests it's possibly not that 397 00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:06,960 Speaker 2: rare at all. There was a survey done in Canada, 398 00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:12,240 Speaker 2: I believe, which found that thirteen percent of people were 399 00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:18,200 Speaker 2: reporting persistent sexual problems after stopping antidepressants, and that compared 400 00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:23,120 Speaker 2: to only one percent of people who had stopped other medication. So, 401 00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:25,720 Speaker 2: and it wasn't a study that was specifically about this, 402 00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:28,119 Speaker 2: So it wasn't as if all the people answering the 403 00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:30,920 Speaker 2: questionnaire were people who had an ax to grind. It 404 00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:37,280 Speaker 2: was a general, a general survey about sexual functioning. So 405 00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:41,520 Speaker 2: you know, it could be that this is affecting ten 406 00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:44,600 Speaker 2: percent or even more of people who are using antidepressants, 407 00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:47,280 Speaker 2: which obviously means it's huge numbers of people. 408 00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:50,440 Speaker 1: It's huge numbers of people, and that's why I think 409 00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:53,000 Speaker 1: we've had so many people reach out to us, and 410 00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:55,119 Speaker 1: I think it is I would say, this is a 411 00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:58,959 Speaker 1: very taboo subject. It's hard to talk about, and I 412 00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:02,199 Speaker 1: understand why it hasn't been talked about for years because 413 00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:05,280 Speaker 1: not many people want to come out and admit this. 414 00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:07,680 Speaker 1: I mean, the woman that you talk about in the book, 415 00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:10,480 Speaker 1: she said when she did a documentary on it, she said, 416 00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:13,199 Speaker 1: I expected you fifteen years ago. I've been waiting for 417 00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:16,360 Speaker 1: fifteen years to tell this story. But that was still 418 00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:18,800 Speaker 1: like seven years after it happened to her. And I 419 00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:22,000 Speaker 1: think it's because it's so hard to come out and 420 00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:26,280 Speaker 1: say I can't do this anymore, because having a physical 421 00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:29,639 Speaker 1: relationship with your spouse, with your loved one, having sex 422 00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:32,400 Speaker 1: is so important, so crudical, crucial to who we are, 423 00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:34,879 Speaker 1: and nobody wants to say this, But you write in 424 00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:39,600 Speaker 1: the book that one expert actually suggests that reduced genital 425 00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:44,320 Speaker 1: sensation can occur within thirty minutes of taking the first 426 00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:48,879 Speaker 1: dose thirty minutes, and delayed and weakened orgasm can occur 427 00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:53,359 Speaker 1: soon after. He actually described an example of a woman 428 00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:57,959 Speaker 1: who took an SSRI. Her genitals were so numb that 429 00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:01,560 Speaker 1: she could brush them with a hair brush without feeling 430 00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:07,119 Speaker 1: a thing. That's sickening to me. It's terror, it's criminal. 431 00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:10,439 Speaker 1: I cannot say enough the idea that people have to 432 00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:13,880 Speaker 1: live with this the rest of their life. How can 433 00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:14,240 Speaker 1: this be? 434 00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:17,240 Speaker 3: How can we be ignoring this so scary? 435 00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:22,080 Speaker 2: I think we've just been much too blase about the 436 00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:25,760 Speaker 2: idea of giving people mind altering drugs. As I say, 437 00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:28,200 Speaker 2: and as I said at the beginning, that's partly because 438 00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:31,040 Speaker 2: we've had this complete myth that what we're doing is 439 00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:36,960 Speaker 2: using these sophisticated, targeted substances, when we're not so we've 440 00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:41,119 Speaker 2: been much too blase about it. We haven't properly investigated 441 00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:44,280 Speaker 2: the consequences of taking these these drugs. We haven't looked 442 00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:47,360 Speaker 2: in detail at what happens when people come off them, 443 00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:50,560 Speaker 2: at the sort of withdrawal problems that people have, the 444 00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:53,639 Speaker 2: problems people have if they end up taking them for 445 00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:56,800 Speaker 2: months or years. You know, most of the studies are 446 00:25:56,840 --> 00:26:00,199 Speaker 2: set up to last a few months, and that's what 447 00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:02,240 Speaker 2: we have the data on, and there's not very good 448 00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:03,120 Speaker 2: data after that. 449 00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:08,160 Speaker 1: In the US alone, it's an eighteen billion dollar industry 450 00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:12,800 Speaker 1: annually antidepressants, putting people on drugs that aren't making you 451 00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:16,000 Speaker 1: less depressed. And I say that I can see the 452 00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:19,400 Speaker 1: reason you would put someone like the guy in North 453 00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:22,960 Speaker 1: Carolina on these. However, there's also evidence that this can 454 00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:26,240 Speaker 1: make people aggressive, that this can make people suicidal, that 455 00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:30,480 Speaker 1: this can actually lead potentially to someone hurting other people. 456 00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:34,440 Speaker 1: So how is there not a group of people out 457 00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:38,400 Speaker 1: there saying, really, stop this, stop this medication. 458 00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:41,800 Speaker 2: There's another myth around that these drugs work, that they 459 00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:45,920 Speaker 2: make people less depressed, regardless of how they might do that, 460 00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:50,240 Speaker 2: and that's based on these placebo control studies. But actually 461 00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:54,080 Speaker 2: these studies show that antidepressants are minimally different from a 462 00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:56,879 Speaker 2: placebo that the majority of the effect they're having is 463 00:26:57,040 --> 00:27:00,240 Speaker 2: a placebo effect, Which makes sense, doesn't it. A course, 464 00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:02,600 Speaker 2: you know, people go and see their doctor at their 465 00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:06,120 Speaker 2: low point, they're given something that they think and hope 466 00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:07,880 Speaker 2: is going to make them feel better, and of course 467 00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:10,280 Speaker 2: that sends them off feeling a bit more hopeful, at 468 00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:14,880 Speaker 2: least temporarily. So it's probably the case that these these 469 00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:20,040 Speaker 2: drugs have no actual beneficial pharmacological effect. And yet we 470 00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:22,800 Speaker 2: know that, you know, if you tamper with brain chemistry, 471 00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:27,200 Speaker 2: that can have negative consequences. And it's becoming more and 472 00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:31,320 Speaker 2: more apparent that there are many negative consequences from taking antidepressants. 473 00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:37,159 Speaker 2: It seems say for some people, this this uh, this 474 00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:41,920 Speaker 2: causing of aggressive or suicidal impulses. 475 00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:45,000 Speaker 1: Let's take a quick commercial break. We'll continue next on 476 00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:52,080 Speaker 1: a Tutor Dixon podcast. This is so I really encourage 477 00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:55,520 Speaker 1: everybody out there to get this book, to read this book, 478 00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:59,320 Speaker 1: because when you learn about this, you will learn about 479 00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:01,639 Speaker 1: there's everybody knows somebody in their life that is on 480 00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:04,160 Speaker 1: one of these medications. I just am at the point 481 00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:07,360 Speaker 1: where I believe everybody knows someone and or they're being 482 00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:09,399 Speaker 1: pushed to go on it. And I say that because 483 00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:11,480 Speaker 1: I do want to read a few of the comments 484 00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:13,960 Speaker 1: that came to me, and I'm reading them out loud 485 00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:16,400 Speaker 1: because they were on a public forum, and I think 486 00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:20,720 Speaker 1: that that's okay to share. Someone says to me, please 487 00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:25,800 Speaker 1: consider talking about the other horrifying symptoms of PSSD from SSRIs. 488 00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:28,879 Speaker 1: Sexual dysfunction is only the tip of the iceberg for 489 00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:32,600 Speaker 1: a lot of us. Lack of emotions, cognitive decline, destruction 490 00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:37,040 Speaker 1: of our creativity and imaginations, muscle loss and heart conditions. 491 00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:40,480 Speaker 1: Another one. I'm a healthy man in my early thirties. 492 00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:43,440 Speaker 1: All blood work tests are great, full body MRI cat 493 00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:47,880 Speaker 1: scans normal, and yet I have no libido, full sexual dysfunction, 494 00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:52,160 Speaker 1: emotions dulled, taste dulled, etc. This is two years after 495 00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:57,280 Speaker 1: stopping lexapro. PSSD is literally a crime against humanity. Two more. 496 00:28:57,760 --> 00:29:01,440 Speaker 1: I'm an anesthesia or one more an anime caesiologist in Michigan. 497 00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:04,000 Speaker 1: I've been suffering from this for four years. I've met 498 00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:07,520 Speaker 1: many other patients. This is basically like being dead while 499 00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:11,280 Speaker 1: still breathing. Please help us raise awareness for prevention and 500 00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:14,880 Speaker 1: a possible treatment. Our children are at risk. It breaks 501 00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:18,080 Speaker 1: my heart to read these things because this guy is saying, 502 00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:21,440 Speaker 1: what if someone gets to my kids and puts them 503 00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:24,040 Speaker 1: because he has three children, what if someone puts my 504 00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:28,160 Speaker 1: children on this medication. I mean, he's on it, he's 505 00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:32,440 Speaker 1: living it. That to me is it's a crisis and 506 00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:33,800 Speaker 1: no one's talking about it. 507 00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:38,160 Speaker 2: I know, I know, it's absolutely tragic. It just I 508 00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:41,080 Speaker 2: suppose it shows you the power of the you know, 509 00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:46,520 Speaker 2: the pharmaceutical industry, the medical profession, the medical industrial complex. 510 00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:51,320 Speaker 2: We could call it to you know, to dute people essentially. 511 00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:54,680 Speaker 1: And he actually, I do have one more that I 512 00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:59,280 Speaker 1: think you need to hear. We feel chemically castrated and lobotomized. 513 00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:03,800 Speaker 1: I will one hundred percent rather only have sexual dysfunction 514 00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:04,520 Speaker 1: at this point. 515 00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:05,240 Speaker 3: It is a. 516 00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:09,000 Speaker 1: Horrifying existence living like this twenty four to seven. No 517 00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:11,320 Speaker 1: one should ever have to feel like this because of 518 00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:15,360 Speaker 1: a medication handed out so frivolously for mild depression. 519 00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:21,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's it, very well, doesn't It's. 520 00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:24,720 Speaker 1: I just I thank you so much for being one 521 00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:28,960 Speaker 1: who's willing to come forward and talk about this, because 522 00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:31,720 Speaker 1: I think that we're at a time, at least in 523 00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:35,080 Speaker 1: the United States where we have a health and Human 524 00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:39,680 Speaker 1: Services agency that is open to talking about things like this. 525 00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:43,920 Speaker 1: But for the I have to say, there has to 526 00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:48,040 Speaker 1: be hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of people across 527 00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:50,880 Speaker 1: the globe or at least in the Western world, that 528 00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:55,080 Speaker 1: have either experienced this themselves or they are also victims 529 00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:58,480 Speaker 1: on the other side, as someone standing alongside a person 530 00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:02,160 Speaker 1: who has been victimized by a doctor who doesn't tell them. 531 00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:05,719 Speaker 1: And the reason I say this is because they're not learning, 532 00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:09,520 Speaker 1: the doctors aren't telling them. And I'll just end asking you, 533 00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:12,800 Speaker 1: is it because the doctors don't know? Is there a 534 00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:16,760 Speaker 1: financial incentive to continue to dole out these drugs? What 535 00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:20,080 Speaker 1: is the reason we can't tell people that their life 536 00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:23,480 Speaker 1: will be permanently altered if they take these medications. 537 00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:29,760 Speaker 2: So most antidepressants are off patent now, so the pharmaceutical 538 00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:32,640 Speaker 2: industry are no longer advertising, no longer care about them 539 00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:35,720 Speaker 2: that much. I think the bigger reason that there is 540 00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:39,200 Speaker 2: a reluctance to admit how useless and harmful they are 541 00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:44,760 Speaker 2: is that they've just been so widely used. It's such 542 00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:49,840 Speaker 2: a huge mistake that like the opioid crisis, Like the 543 00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:54,640 Speaker 2: opioid crisis, that doctors really struggle to acknowledge that that 544 00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:55,680 Speaker 2: is the situation. 545 00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:02,160 Speaker 1: It's it's a crisis. So your book, your book, tell 546 00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:04,840 Speaker 1: us about your book. It's chemically imbalanced, the making and 547 00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:08,640 Speaker 1: unmaking of the serotonin myth. This is what created the 548 00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:11,600 Speaker 1: whole push to get people on. You have a chemical 549 00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:15,360 Speaker 1: imbalance in your brain, you are dysfunctional. This will make 550 00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:17,840 Speaker 1: you functional. Where can people get the book and find 551 00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:18,400 Speaker 1: out the truth? 552 00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:22,920 Speaker 2: So it's published by Trafalgar Publishers in the US on 553 00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:26,280 Speaker 2: the twenty third of September. It's already out in the UK, 554 00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:29,160 Speaker 2: so you can order it via the UK publisher and 555 00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:31,600 Speaker 2: you can also get the electronic copy, but it will 556 00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:33,800 Speaker 2: be out in the US officially on the twenty third. 557 00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:37,479 Speaker 2: I have a website and I'm on x as well 558 00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:39,160 Speaker 2: if people want to follow me there. 559 00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:41,680 Speaker 1: It's so crucial. I mean, as you said, we had 560 00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:44,480 Speaker 1: doctor eurato On. He talked about the fact that even 561 00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:47,760 Speaker 1: the mother can transfer this to the baby when she 562 00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:52,120 Speaker 1: is pregnant, and in adolescent animals that have received this 563 00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:55,000 Speaker 1: as they were when they were fetuses, they show the 564 00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:58,880 Speaker 1: same sexual dysfunction when they hit adolescents. This could see 565 00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:02,240 Speaker 1: a crisis for decades to come, and it has to 566 00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:06,240 Speaker 1: stop now. So thank you so much, doctor Joanna Moncreef, 567 00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:11,640 Speaker 1: thank you for being here today, Thank you so much, Judent, absolutely, 568 00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:13,840 Speaker 1: and thank you all for joining us on the Tutor 569 00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:16,880 Speaker 1: Dixon podcast. Make sure you head over to the iHeartRadio app, 570 00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:19,560 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You can 571 00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:22,120 Speaker 1: watch it on a rumble or YouTube at Tutor Dixon 572 00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:24,680 Speaker 1: and join us the next time. Have a blessed day.