1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:02,840 Speaker 1: Welcome to five hundred Greatest Songs, a podcast based on 2 00:00:02,960 --> 00:00:07,440 Speaker 1: Rolling Stones hugely popular, influential, and sometimes controversial list. 3 00:00:07,720 --> 00:00:10,280 Speaker 2: I'm Britney Spanas and I'm Rob Sheffield. 4 00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:12,720 Speaker 3: We're here to shed light on the greatest songs ever 5 00:00:12,760 --> 00:00:16,640 Speaker 3: made and discover what makes them so great. This week, 6 00:00:16,800 --> 00:00:20,439 Speaker 3: we're diving into an all time favorite for both of us, 7 00:00:20,840 --> 00:00:23,439 Speaker 3: Be My Baby by the ron Nets. 8 00:00:23,400 --> 00:00:26,920 Speaker 1: A song that actually maintained its ranking on the two 9 00:00:26,920 --> 00:00:29,120 Speaker 1: thousand and four list into the twenty twenty one list. 10 00:00:29,280 --> 00:00:31,080 Speaker 2: It stayed at number twenty. 11 00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:34,120 Speaker 1: Two on both lists, which is like pretty remarkable that 12 00:00:34,159 --> 00:00:36,720 Speaker 1: I was able to maintain that between the two votes. 13 00:00:36,760 --> 00:00:38,760 Speaker 2: But this song is such an all time classic. 14 00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:42,040 Speaker 1: It's such a foundation for a lot of artists, a 15 00:00:42,040 --> 00:00:42,680 Speaker 1: lot of. 16 00:00:42,720 --> 00:00:43,720 Speaker 2: Great pop music. 17 00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:47,240 Speaker 1: I mean, I think that the references alone are endless, 18 00:00:47,240 --> 00:00:50,480 Speaker 1: Like that's an entire separate episode of us talking about 19 00:00:50,520 --> 00:00:55,160 Speaker 1: every single song and artists that has referenced the drum 20 00:00:55,200 --> 00:01:00,840 Speaker 1: beat or you know, the Woo's or the Ronnie's or anything. 21 00:01:00,920 --> 00:01:04,400 Speaker 1: But it's such an excellent, perfect, perfect girl group song. 22 00:01:05,080 --> 00:01:07,960 Speaker 3: It's absolutely phenomenal, a song that, like you said, the 23 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:12,200 Speaker 3: drumbeat alone, you hear that in every genre of music. 24 00:01:12,720 --> 00:01:15,880 Speaker 3: Every band does there be My Baby. How many movies begin, 25 00:01:16,360 --> 00:01:19,560 Speaker 3: you know, with that drum intro? How many albums, how 26 00:01:19,560 --> 00:01:23,320 Speaker 3: many careers begin with that drum intro. It's just part 27 00:01:23,360 --> 00:01:26,280 Speaker 3: of the universal language of pop music. It's as universal 28 00:01:26,319 --> 00:01:29,199 Speaker 3: as a pop song can be, and it never sounds dated. 29 00:01:29,440 --> 00:01:32,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, And I mean also just the vocals of Ronnie 30 00:01:32,800 --> 00:01:35,280 Speaker 1: on the song Rispector. I mean, she is like just 31 00:01:35,480 --> 00:01:39,120 Speaker 1: the ultimate ultimate rock and roll girl, Like she is 32 00:01:39,200 --> 00:01:41,560 Speaker 1: just so cool and her voice is just like so 33 00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:44,080 Speaker 1: edgy and rob but also so pure in that kind 34 00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:47,000 Speaker 1: of perfect girl groupy way. And I mean she just 35 00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:49,040 Speaker 1: really carries so much of the charisma of the song 36 00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:51,640 Speaker 1: and makes it work so well. And again a foundation 37 00:01:51,760 --> 00:01:53,840 Speaker 1: for a lot of artists, a lot of artists, especially 38 00:01:53,880 --> 00:01:55,560 Speaker 1: after her passing last year, I mean, I think a 39 00:01:55,600 --> 00:01:58,280 Speaker 1: lot of artists. The tributes came pouring in about how 40 00:01:58,360 --> 00:02:01,320 Speaker 1: much she had impacted who they were and who they 41 00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:03,880 Speaker 1: wanted to be as performer, and it's very clear. 42 00:02:04,520 --> 00:02:06,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, she had such an amazing and long 43 00:02:06,760 --> 00:02:09,600 Speaker 3: career as a phenomenal vocalist. But really, even if we 44 00:02:09,600 --> 00:02:12,320 Speaker 3: were just this one song, her vocals in this song 45 00:02:12,320 --> 00:02:16,160 Speaker 3: alone just transformed music. In so many ways, so many 46 00:02:16,160 --> 00:02:19,760 Speaker 3: individual moments in this song spawned entire careers. You know, 47 00:02:19,800 --> 00:02:21,919 Speaker 3: you listen to this line, it's like, oh, everything Brice 48 00:02:21,960 --> 00:02:25,000 Speaker 3: Springsteen ever did, never aspired to do, came out of 49 00:02:25,000 --> 00:02:25,560 Speaker 3: this line. 50 00:02:25,639 --> 00:02:25,919 Speaker 4: Yeah. 51 00:02:25,960 --> 00:02:29,000 Speaker 3: And you know, everything Brian Wilson wanted to do came 52 00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:31,839 Speaker 3: out of this line. And you know, just the influences 53 00:02:31,919 --> 00:02:36,640 Speaker 3: all over music, from goth to metal to hip hop 54 00:02:36,680 --> 00:02:40,639 Speaker 3: to everything. There's just this deep be my Baby Ronnie 55 00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:42,360 Speaker 3: Spector passion running through it. 56 00:02:42,560 --> 00:02:42,960 Speaker 4: Yeah. 57 00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:45,880 Speaker 1: And the song was written in nineteen sixty three by 58 00:02:46,600 --> 00:02:49,800 Speaker 1: Jeff Barry, Ellie Greenwich, and Phil Spector. Jeff and Ellie 59 00:02:49,880 --> 00:02:53,359 Speaker 1: Actually they had the most songs written by a non 60 00:02:53,400 --> 00:02:55,680 Speaker 1: performing duo on the two thousand and four list. They 61 00:02:55,680 --> 00:02:58,840 Speaker 1: had six songs. They wrote so many incredible classics. Chapel 62 00:02:58,840 --> 00:03:01,440 Speaker 1: of Love is a number one favorite of from the 63 00:03:01,520 --> 00:03:04,480 Speaker 1: Hurricanon and River Deep, Mountain High and so many others. 64 00:03:05,080 --> 00:03:07,120 Speaker 2: And they wrote this song and. 65 00:03:07,080 --> 00:03:10,280 Speaker 1: Phil Spector was auditioning this new girl group that was 66 00:03:10,400 --> 00:03:13,040 Speaker 1: of course Ronnie and her sister and her cousin. And 67 00:03:13,280 --> 00:03:15,519 Speaker 1: they were signed to the Phillies label, which is Phil 68 00:03:15,560 --> 00:03:18,640 Speaker 1: Spector's label. And you know, they were not really ready 69 00:03:18,720 --> 00:03:21,040 Speaker 1: yet for a while they kind of withheld their first 70 00:03:21,080 --> 00:03:23,399 Speaker 1: couple of singles and wasn't really sure that they were 71 00:03:23,560 --> 00:03:27,240 Speaker 1: totally radio ready, performance ready, but then gave them Be 72 00:03:27,320 --> 00:03:29,720 Speaker 1: My Baby, and the rest is history. Of course, Ronnie 73 00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:31,720 Speaker 1: really carries this song, and this is a song that 74 00:03:31,800 --> 00:03:34,119 Speaker 1: exemplifies so much of the wall of sound that Phil 75 00:03:34,160 --> 00:03:36,560 Speaker 1: Spector is known for, and you know, just in the 76 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:39,240 Speaker 1: way that they recorded it. I loved reading an anecdote 77 00:03:39,240 --> 00:03:41,440 Speaker 1: from Ronnie that she said that it's a lot about 78 00:03:41,480 --> 00:03:42,760 Speaker 1: the studio, but she also recorded a lot of the 79 00:03:42,800 --> 00:03:45,840 Speaker 1: vocals in the ladies bathroom at the studio, and she said, 80 00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:47,920 Speaker 1: there's a lot to say about the acoustics in that 81 00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:49,040 Speaker 1: lady's bathroom. 82 00:03:49,080 --> 00:03:52,560 Speaker 3: Total in your memoir, which everybody should run out of, 83 00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:54,880 Speaker 3: it's one of the all time great rock memoirs. But 84 00:03:55,080 --> 00:03:57,360 Speaker 3: she's a great She's like, you know, the lady's room 85 00:03:57,480 --> 00:04:00,880 Speaker 3: sounded better than the studio. She's like, people talk about 86 00:04:00,880 --> 00:04:02,840 Speaker 3: the great echo in the studio, but it was even 87 00:04:02,920 --> 00:04:06,240 Speaker 3: better in the bathroom. A story that I love. I mean, 88 00:04:06,480 --> 00:04:09,040 Speaker 3: as you say, her vocal is so key to the 89 00:04:09,040 --> 00:04:12,840 Speaker 3: whole thing that she was flying out to la to 90 00:04:12,880 --> 00:04:14,560 Speaker 3: do it. It was the first time she'd ever been 91 00:04:14,600 --> 00:04:17,200 Speaker 3: on a plane. She was with her mom, she was terrified, 92 00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:20,520 Speaker 3: she was just a kid, And she went into the 93 00:04:20,560 --> 00:04:24,000 Speaker 3: bathroom at LaGuardia before the plane took off and just 94 00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:27,040 Speaker 3: sang that song over and over again in that bathroom 95 00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:30,520 Speaker 3: to just rehearse her vocals. And it's really funny that 96 00:04:30,800 --> 00:04:33,480 Speaker 3: the ambience of you know, singing that song to yourself 97 00:04:33,480 --> 00:04:39,320 Speaker 3: in the bathroom is such a like she could hear. Yes, Yeah, 98 00:04:39,400 --> 00:04:43,039 Speaker 3: I'm not sure they've they've remodeled those those bathrooms since then. 99 00:04:42,920 --> 00:04:45,520 Speaker 2: But it's had to keep the same. Yes, you never 100 00:04:45,560 --> 00:04:47,480 Speaker 2: know when the next my baby is going to be exactly. 101 00:04:47,480 --> 00:04:52,360 Speaker 3: It's a sacred part of world cultural history. But it's 102 00:04:52,400 --> 00:04:57,120 Speaker 3: well that every detail of the recording is so perfectly engineered, 103 00:04:57,160 --> 00:05:01,000 Speaker 3: so precisely arranged and everything, but it all comes down 104 00:05:01,040 --> 00:05:05,000 Speaker 3: to that vocal. Yeah, that it's the absolute realness and 105 00:05:05,080 --> 00:05:09,159 Speaker 3: rawness of you know, this teenage girl just absolutely like 106 00:05:09,240 --> 00:05:10,120 Speaker 3: blowing the roof off. 107 00:05:10,279 --> 00:05:10,479 Speaker 4: Yeah. 108 00:05:10,520 --> 00:05:12,320 Speaker 1: And this is a song by the Ryas that is 109 00:05:12,520 --> 00:05:15,200 Speaker 1: just it's just Ronnie Spector singing on it. But also 110 00:05:15,320 --> 00:05:17,919 Speaker 1: a favorite fun fact of mine is that Sonny and 111 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:21,159 Speaker 1: Cher saying background vocals because they were in the studio 112 00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:24,680 Speaker 1: and Darling Love wasn't in that day and they were 113 00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:28,479 Speaker 1: recording with Phil Spector and ended up getting doing just 114 00:05:28,520 --> 00:05:30,400 Speaker 1: a little bit of background vocals on the song, which 115 00:05:30,440 --> 00:05:33,839 Speaker 1: I love knowing that that Share is somewhere somewhere deep 116 00:05:33,880 --> 00:05:35,119 Speaker 1: in the in the mix. 117 00:05:35,760 --> 00:05:38,520 Speaker 3: I love that. Yes, it's funny, that's a story that 118 00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:42,880 Speaker 3: there's some some dispute over its veracity. But I really 119 00:05:42,920 --> 00:05:46,479 Speaker 3: feel like I personally always hear Share, you know, just 120 00:05:46,520 --> 00:05:50,000 Speaker 3: somewhere in the background. Yeah, but like just Ronnie as 121 00:05:50,040 --> 00:05:51,599 Speaker 3: someone you know, you can definitely tell this is not 122 00:05:51,680 --> 00:05:54,280 Speaker 3: a trained voice. This is not somebody who's been doing 123 00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:56,120 Speaker 3: the voice lessons, This is not somebody who has a 124 00:05:56,160 --> 00:05:59,440 Speaker 3: lot of live experience. This is just a kid who 125 00:05:59,480 --> 00:06:02,000 Speaker 3: listens to music on the radio, sings along with it, 126 00:06:02,120 --> 00:06:04,599 Speaker 3: and you know, realizes this is her big moment. You 127 00:06:04,600 --> 00:06:07,720 Speaker 3: can hear that she's terrified. In terms of like the 128 00:06:07,760 --> 00:06:10,440 Speaker 3: great vocals, we can hear how scared the singer is. 129 00:06:10,839 --> 00:06:13,440 Speaker 3: There's you know, some of the all time greats are 130 00:06:13,520 --> 00:06:15,760 Speaker 3: like that, and you could definitely hear that in her 131 00:06:15,839 --> 00:06:19,400 Speaker 3: voice that she is really nervous. All her emotions are 132 00:06:19,400 --> 00:06:22,560 Speaker 3: on edge, and that comes across in absolutely every part 133 00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:25,200 Speaker 3: of it. Her vibrato, the way she hits all those 134 00:06:25,240 --> 00:06:26,640 Speaker 3: high notes just incredible. 135 00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:29,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it's just kind of the perfect rock 136 00:06:29,760 --> 00:06:30,320 Speaker 1: and roll song. 137 00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:30,640 Speaker 4: You know. 138 00:06:30,680 --> 00:06:33,760 Speaker 1: It's like the just all of those the levels of 139 00:06:33,800 --> 00:06:36,640 Speaker 1: the harmonies, and just the way that I mean obviously 140 00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:39,160 Speaker 1: the production being that wall sound production, that kind of 141 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:42,920 Speaker 1: room filling sort of acoustic kind of you know, you 142 00:06:42,960 --> 00:06:45,080 Speaker 1: play it on the stereo and it kind of takes 143 00:06:45,120 --> 00:06:48,240 Speaker 1: over your entire car home when you're listening to it. 144 00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:51,159 Speaker 1: Just the fact that she's able to kind of really 145 00:06:52,040 --> 00:06:54,760 Speaker 1: transcend so much of already like a really great kind 146 00:06:54,800 --> 00:06:57,720 Speaker 1: of wrecking crew kind of performance beneath it and just 147 00:06:57,720 --> 00:06:59,440 Speaker 1: like make it so much more powerful and make it 148 00:06:59,520 --> 00:07:01,920 Speaker 1: kind of the voice as her as this like beautiful 149 00:07:01,920 --> 00:07:04,280 Speaker 1: centerpiece to it, and just kind of like cuts. 150 00:07:04,120 --> 00:07:04,920 Speaker 2: Through all of that. 151 00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:07,239 Speaker 1: Like the minute that she starts singing, like that drum 152 00:07:07,240 --> 00:07:09,360 Speaker 1: beat at the beginning, you're like immediately forget about it, 153 00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:10,680 Speaker 1: and then it comes back You're like, oh, yeah, that 154 00:07:10,760 --> 00:07:14,000 Speaker 1: was also amazing. Yeah, when the trump beat returns at 155 00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:16,120 Speaker 1: the end, you're like, oh, yes, I almost forgot that. 156 00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:18,400 Speaker 1: We just started off with that excellent intro and we're 157 00:07:18,440 --> 00:07:21,520 Speaker 1: so distracted by Ronnie's like perfect performance of it. 158 00:07:21,920 --> 00:07:26,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's great because the drum is pure confidence. 159 00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:29,400 Speaker 3: You know, of course it's one of the ultraime great drummers, 160 00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:32,400 Speaker 3: hal Blaine, the rhythm of the Wrecking Crew, and this 161 00:07:32,560 --> 00:07:35,239 Speaker 3: is you know, a pro who absolutely knows what he's doing. 162 00:07:35,760 --> 00:07:38,640 Speaker 3: This beat is, you know, the center of the hal 163 00:07:38,680 --> 00:07:41,400 Speaker 3: Blaine legend. This is when people talk about how greaty is. 164 00:07:41,440 --> 00:07:43,160 Speaker 3: This is the song, but it's well that that is 165 00:07:43,200 --> 00:07:46,480 Speaker 3: such a contrast with Ronnie, who is really sounds like 166 00:07:46,520 --> 00:07:49,160 Speaker 3: she's winging it and like while she's singing it, she's 167 00:07:49,200 --> 00:07:51,920 Speaker 3: not sure how it's coming across to people, but she's 168 00:07:52,000 --> 00:07:54,800 Speaker 3: absolutely putting her heart into it, and you can really 169 00:07:54,960 --> 00:07:56,680 Speaker 3: hear that she's putting herself on the line. 170 00:07:56,760 --> 00:07:57,000 Speaker 4: Yeah. 171 00:07:57,000 --> 00:07:59,640 Speaker 1: And I think especially in the context of like so 172 00:07:59,840 --> 00:08:02,560 Speaker 1: much much of the kind of like fifties and sixties 173 00:08:02,600 --> 00:08:05,400 Speaker 1: sort of girl group kind of song energies that were 174 00:08:05,440 --> 00:08:07,160 Speaker 1: happy at that time, Like there is so much of 175 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:11,520 Speaker 1: that lyrically, the sort of confidence that's happening from the 176 00:08:11,560 --> 00:08:14,920 Speaker 1: way that the perspective that Ronnie's singing from, like this 177 00:08:15,040 --> 00:08:18,520 Speaker 1: character who is like you know, be mine, Like it's 178 00:08:18,560 --> 00:08:21,840 Speaker 1: like very much like very forward in terms of kind 179 00:08:21,840 --> 00:08:23,760 Speaker 1: of the more kind of submissiveness of a lot of 180 00:08:23,800 --> 00:08:25,360 Speaker 1: the characters that we see in a lot of the 181 00:08:25,480 --> 00:08:28,280 Speaker 1: songs from this time, especially sung by women, Like it's 182 00:08:28,440 --> 00:08:30,640 Speaker 1: very I know, she's able to kind of carry that 183 00:08:30,680 --> 00:08:33,040 Speaker 1: in such a perfect way where it is that kind 184 00:08:33,080 --> 00:08:35,360 Speaker 1: of rock and rollness of her voice and that kind 185 00:08:35,400 --> 00:08:37,240 Speaker 1: of brashness of the way that she sings, and that 186 00:08:37,400 --> 00:08:39,160 Speaker 1: you know, she doesn't need to like be the sort 187 00:08:39,160 --> 00:08:42,000 Speaker 1: of like super perfect kind of image of what we 188 00:08:42,040 --> 00:08:44,240 Speaker 1: thought a pop star could be, and she kind of 189 00:08:44,280 --> 00:08:46,199 Speaker 1: carries it so well in terms of even just the 190 00:08:46,760 --> 00:08:48,800 Speaker 1: messaging of the song being so unique and different to 191 00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:50,240 Speaker 1: what we were used to hearing at the time. 192 00:08:50,440 --> 00:08:53,160 Speaker 3: Absolutely, it's so true, Like, I mean, you're so one 193 00:08:53,240 --> 00:08:57,160 Speaker 3: hundred percent right about how it really contrasts with how 194 00:08:57,240 --> 00:09:00,040 Speaker 3: a lot of the singers from that era were, i 195 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:03,240 Speaker 3: mean cross especially the young female ones. And there's no 196 00:09:03,320 --> 00:09:05,920 Speaker 3: hesitation in what she's singing, and there's no real calculation 197 00:09:06,040 --> 00:09:08,640 Speaker 3: in it either. You can hear her confidence build line 198 00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:11,240 Speaker 3: by line the moment in the first verse where she's 199 00:09:11,240 --> 00:09:12,959 Speaker 3: just kind of warming and then she says, we'll make 200 00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:15,680 Speaker 3: them turn their heads every place we go and I 201 00:09:15,679 --> 00:09:17,920 Speaker 3: feel like that's the moment where she really snaps into 202 00:09:17,920 --> 00:09:20,920 Speaker 3: being Ronnie Specter and yeah, it's like, wow, no, this 203 00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:25,160 Speaker 3: is where she's absolutely the confidence is surging at this point, 204 00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:29,640 Speaker 3: and it's really amazing to hear how that spirit has 205 00:09:29,679 --> 00:09:33,000 Speaker 3: really defined the song through the years, through the decades, 206 00:09:33,320 --> 00:09:36,320 Speaker 3: through the generations, in every culture. It's really amazing. 207 00:09:36,480 --> 00:09:39,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, And what are some of your favorite I mean, 208 00:09:39,400 --> 00:09:41,800 Speaker 1: I can think of like a million different references I 209 00:09:41,840 --> 00:09:44,000 Speaker 1: really love that have been made to the song directly, 210 00:09:44,040 --> 00:09:46,760 Speaker 1: whether it's to Ronnie or to the beat or anything. 211 00:09:46,800 --> 00:09:49,000 Speaker 1: But what are some of your favorite kind of uses 212 00:09:49,040 --> 00:09:50,760 Speaker 1: of the song or influences of the song that have 213 00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:52,319 Speaker 1: existed in pop music? 214 00:09:52,400 --> 00:09:54,000 Speaker 3: I love it because it's everywhere. 215 00:09:54,200 --> 00:09:54,480 Speaker 2: Yeah. 216 00:09:54,520 --> 00:09:58,000 Speaker 3: So, you know one of the all time great albums 217 00:09:58,000 --> 00:10:01,120 Speaker 3: of the eighties Psycho Candy by The Jesus and Mary Chain, 218 00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:03,800 Speaker 3: and the way that it begins with that beat and 219 00:10:03,880 --> 00:10:07,160 Speaker 3: that you know, the Jesus and Mary Chan are saying like, yes, 220 00:10:07,200 --> 00:10:10,600 Speaker 3: we're really depressive Scottish boys. We haven't seen the sunlight 221 00:10:10,760 --> 00:10:13,600 Speaker 3: in years because we can't see through our hair, and 222 00:10:14,040 --> 00:10:16,360 Speaker 3: this is how we're going to present ourselves to the 223 00:10:16,360 --> 00:10:19,959 Speaker 3: world in this feedback drenched version of the Be My 224 00:10:20,080 --> 00:10:23,400 Speaker 3: Baby beat, and it's such a beautiful statement about all 225 00:10:23,400 --> 00:10:26,520 Speaker 3: their goals and all their aspirations. I love how the 226 00:10:26,600 --> 00:10:28,320 Speaker 3: Jesus and Mary Chain song comes in at the end 227 00:10:28,360 --> 00:10:31,200 Speaker 3: of Lost in Translation, when Scarlet's in the back of 228 00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:35,080 Speaker 3: the taxi having her moment, and you could really tell that, 229 00:10:35,160 --> 00:10:37,120 Speaker 3: you know, it's not just the Jesus and Mary Chain 230 00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:38,840 Speaker 3: that she's hearing in her head in that scene, she's 231 00:10:38,880 --> 00:10:42,440 Speaker 3: really like listening to Ronnie Spector in that scene. That's 232 00:10:42,480 --> 00:10:44,480 Speaker 3: how it feels. And I really think so if your 233 00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:46,640 Speaker 3: couple used it self consciously that way, and now I 234 00:10:46,679 --> 00:10:49,959 Speaker 3: know you love to all time kings of eighties hair 235 00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:53,800 Speaker 3: metal Poison with their debut album Look What the Cat 236 00:10:53,880 --> 00:10:57,760 Speaker 3: Drag In. And I love how that album begins with 237 00:10:57,840 --> 00:10:59,760 Speaker 3: cry Tough, which is just, you know, the be My 238 00:10:59,800 --> 00:11:01,920 Speaker 3: Baby Be beat and a very be my Baby type 239 00:11:01,920 --> 00:11:04,960 Speaker 3: of pop love song. And it's funny because you know, 240 00:11:05,400 --> 00:11:08,720 Speaker 3: for me as a team who like, I really loved 241 00:11:08,760 --> 00:11:10,840 Speaker 3: the Jesus and Mary Chain album and I love the 242 00:11:10,840 --> 00:11:13,520 Speaker 3: Poison album and the Camera out around the same time. 243 00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:16,280 Speaker 3: They did not have overlapping audiences, but I love that 244 00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:18,880 Speaker 3: these two bands that were opposite in so many ways 245 00:11:18,920 --> 00:11:22,079 Speaker 3: and from thousands of miles apart and totally different record collections, 246 00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:25,160 Speaker 3: but this is where they met. They all wanted to 247 00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:26,439 Speaker 3: be Ronnie Spector. 248 00:11:26,679 --> 00:11:29,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, I really love the drum beat sample on Lana 249 00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:32,640 Speaker 1: Delray's Love is a favorite of mine. 250 00:11:32,679 --> 00:11:34,319 Speaker 2: I think that one. I think she's also. 251 00:11:34,120 --> 00:11:38,240 Speaker 1: Like Lana is obviously so heavily influenced by Ronnie and 252 00:11:38,320 --> 00:11:40,480 Speaker 1: the Ronettes, and I mean just kind of like all that, 253 00:11:40,640 --> 00:11:44,600 Speaker 1: and obviously that song in particular is like her most 254 00:11:44,800 --> 00:11:48,760 Speaker 1: direct homage to Ronnie Spector, and have you seen Lana 255 00:11:48,800 --> 00:11:50,800 Speaker 1: live before? And kind of just the presentation that she 256 00:11:50,840 --> 00:11:54,160 Speaker 1: does with like sixties girl group energy and like the 257 00:11:54,240 --> 00:11:55,240 Speaker 1: dancers and everything. 258 00:11:55,320 --> 00:11:58,000 Speaker 2: But yeah, I love that sample on there. 259 00:11:57,960 --> 00:12:00,000 Speaker 1: And even just like the songs that kind of offhanded 260 00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:02,760 Speaker 1: reference it, Like there's an Arctic Monkey song that sort 261 00:12:02,800 --> 00:12:06,280 Speaker 1: of references the Mean Streets opening scene with be My 262 00:12:06,360 --> 00:12:09,120 Speaker 1: Baby on it that I really love, and also the 263 00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:12,400 Speaker 1: theory that Night Moves is supposed to reference Be My Baby, 264 00:12:12,400 --> 00:12:14,680 Speaker 1: even though he gets the year wrong in it, like 265 00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:17,800 Speaker 1: starts singing a song from nineteen sixty two. But yeah, 266 00:12:17,880 --> 00:12:20,400 Speaker 1: I think that I love just kind of like how 267 00:12:20,679 --> 00:12:24,160 Speaker 1: ingrained into our pop culture, into our own consciousness. 268 00:12:23,640 --> 00:12:24,559 Speaker 2: Of like pop music. 269 00:12:24,600 --> 00:12:27,400 Speaker 1: This song is that just like it's kind of just 270 00:12:27,440 --> 00:12:30,079 Speaker 1: an offhanded reference now just for so many musicians to 271 00:12:30,760 --> 00:12:32,880 Speaker 1: make on there to signify a certain point or a 272 00:12:32,880 --> 00:12:35,319 Speaker 1: certain type of like love song that they're referencing, or 273 00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:36,840 Speaker 1: nostalgia or anything like that. 274 00:12:37,160 --> 00:12:40,719 Speaker 3: Absolutely, I mean so many careers come out of this song, 275 00:12:40,840 --> 00:12:44,000 Speaker 3: legendary careers. You think about Bruce Springsteen, who I mentioned earlier, 276 00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:47,280 Speaker 3: but his whole sensibility you can hear Be my Baby. 277 00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:49,880 Speaker 3: You would absolutely be able to convince somebody that just 278 00:12:49,920 --> 00:12:53,320 Speaker 3: based on the first three Springsteen albums, that Be my 279 00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:56,600 Speaker 3: Baby could very well be the only song he'd ever heard. 280 00:12:57,559 --> 00:13:00,000 Speaker 3: Obviously there's a lot of music going into those albums, 281 00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:03,280 Speaker 3: but his commitment to that kind of style of an 282 00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:07,280 Speaker 3: ordinary kid with an ordinary voice, just like absolutely putting 283 00:13:07,360 --> 00:13:09,960 Speaker 3: all their heart into it and coming up with something extraordinary. 284 00:13:10,120 --> 00:13:12,560 Speaker 3: The song itself born to Run. It's just a very 285 00:13:12,559 --> 00:13:15,920 Speaker 3: obvious answer song to Be My Baby. It doesn't echo 286 00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:19,200 Speaker 3: the drum beat, but that passion is absolutely coming straight 287 00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:21,800 Speaker 3: from Being My Baby. But so many other bands, especially 288 00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:26,280 Speaker 3: the punk rock groups that pretty much emerged entirely from 289 00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:30,040 Speaker 3: this song, thinking especially of the New York Dolls and 290 00:13:30,160 --> 00:13:34,280 Speaker 3: the Ramones, who were both obsessed with this song. They're 291 00:13:34,320 --> 00:13:37,480 Speaker 3: obsessed with girl group rock in general. Gold group pat 292 00:13:37,480 --> 00:13:41,160 Speaker 3: from the early sixties so formative for punk rock bands 293 00:13:41,160 --> 00:13:43,880 Speaker 3: from everywhere. But it's all how the New York Boys, 294 00:13:43,920 --> 00:13:46,320 Speaker 3: they really the New York Dolls just wanted to be 295 00:13:46,520 --> 00:13:49,079 Speaker 3: Ronnie Spector. They wanted to dress like her, they wanted 296 00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:50,880 Speaker 3: to sing like her, they wanted to feel as deep 297 00:13:50,880 --> 00:13:53,240 Speaker 3: as she did. And you know, you listen to those 298 00:13:53,240 --> 00:13:56,520 Speaker 3: Dolls albums and it's like, yeah, they are absolutely going 299 00:13:56,559 --> 00:14:00,000 Speaker 3: for a true Veronica Bennett realness. And the Ramones, of course, 300 00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:02,560 Speaker 3: Or She became very close with Joey Ramon and they 301 00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:05,880 Speaker 3: had just a wonderful musical partnership in what turned out 302 00:14:05,880 --> 00:14:07,880 Speaker 3: to be the later years for both of them. But 303 00:14:08,720 --> 00:14:11,320 Speaker 3: it's just really beautiful that the way that they collaborated, 304 00:14:11,559 --> 00:14:14,840 Speaker 3: since you know, everything the Ramones did comes from somewhere 305 00:14:14,840 --> 00:14:15,120 Speaker 3: and be. 306 00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:17,560 Speaker 1: My Baby, Yeah, yeah, I mean, I love how much 307 00:14:17,679 --> 00:14:21,120 Speaker 1: of that like punk rock connection to all of those 308 00:14:21,160 --> 00:14:24,480 Speaker 1: like sixties girl groups, especially obviously Ronnie being sort of 309 00:14:24,520 --> 00:14:27,480 Speaker 1: the leader of that pack, you know, that sort of 310 00:14:27,560 --> 00:14:31,600 Speaker 1: like star of sort of the ideal kind of like 311 00:14:31,680 --> 00:14:34,120 Speaker 1: punk aesthetic of that. I always kind of like love 312 00:14:34,160 --> 00:14:36,800 Speaker 1: that connection because I feel like it's sort of almost 313 00:14:36,880 --> 00:14:39,960 Speaker 1: kind of i know, underrated, and when we talk about 314 00:14:40,120 --> 00:14:43,520 Speaker 1: the general sense of punk in the seventies and the 315 00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:46,400 Speaker 1: late seventies, and I think that's such a special connection 316 00:14:46,520 --> 00:14:49,600 Speaker 1: that all those bands had to that genre of music, 317 00:14:49,640 --> 00:14:51,880 Speaker 1: but especially to her and to her performance, because she 318 00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:54,080 Speaker 1: was so punk rock and just everything about her her 319 00:14:54,080 --> 00:14:55,240 Speaker 1: presence was so punk rock. 320 00:14:55,680 --> 00:14:58,400 Speaker 3: I mean, the Beatles and the Stones were both they 321 00:14:58,400 --> 00:15:01,320 Speaker 3: were both very close to the run, but they both 322 00:15:01,480 --> 00:15:04,280 Speaker 3: were groups of English boys who really wanted to be 323 00:15:04,400 --> 00:15:07,760 Speaker 3: Ronnie Spector. Famously, when the Beatles were in New York 324 00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:10,760 Speaker 3: for the first time sixty years ago, John Lennon spent 325 00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:12,600 Speaker 3: his first night in New York listening to the radio 326 00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:14,480 Speaker 3: stations because we're back in England they only had two 327 00:15:14,560 --> 00:15:17,560 Speaker 3: stations and calling them up and asking them to play 328 00:15:17,560 --> 00:15:21,080 Speaker 3: the Ronettes, And you know, that was the person they 329 00:15:21,120 --> 00:15:23,640 Speaker 3: were really excited to meet when they came to New York. Yeah, 330 00:15:23,880 --> 00:15:26,360 Speaker 3: and they did a lot of hanging out with the 331 00:15:26,480 --> 00:15:28,480 Speaker 3: Ronettes over the years. Ronnie says in her book, She's 332 00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:30,880 Speaker 3: a great story about taking them up to Spanish Harlem 333 00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:32,760 Speaker 3: where they could just you know, go to get food, 334 00:15:32,760 --> 00:15:36,040 Speaker 3: because she said nobody in the neighborhood would recognize them, 335 00:15:36,400 --> 00:15:38,280 Speaker 3: like they just think that they were just a bunch 336 00:15:38,280 --> 00:15:40,800 Speaker 3: of like ordinary long haired dudes, like guys were their 337 00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:43,120 Speaker 3: hair long in that neighborhood, and she's like, none of 338 00:15:43,160 --> 00:15:45,840 Speaker 3: them cared about English rock and rollers. So yeah, but 339 00:15:45,920 --> 00:15:48,600 Speaker 3: it's wild to think. You know, David Bowie, someone who 340 00:15:48,800 --> 00:15:51,880 Speaker 3: very self consciously, you know, aspired to be my baby 341 00:15:51,960 --> 00:15:55,680 Speaker 3: miss in everything he did, constantly talked about Ronnie Spector 342 00:15:55,720 --> 00:15:58,080 Speaker 3: as a fascination and inspiration for him. 343 00:15:58,200 --> 00:16:01,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, and of course Brian Wilson was, oh, so it 344 00:16:01,240 --> 00:16:02,320 Speaker 1: is so in love with the song. 345 00:16:02,360 --> 00:16:04,120 Speaker 2: He loves it so much, and I love the story. 346 00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:05,280 Speaker 2: The first time he heard it, he had to. 347 00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:08,680 Speaker 1: Pull off the road just to like listen to it 348 00:16:08,720 --> 00:16:11,640 Speaker 1: and analyze it and think about it and just every 349 00:16:11,680 --> 00:16:14,560 Speaker 1: story about you know, him sort of imitating that drum 350 00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:16,760 Speaker 1: beat and playing in and talking about, you know, just 351 00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:19,320 Speaker 1: the fact that this is the greatest song of all 352 00:16:19,400 --> 00:16:22,240 Speaker 1: time to him and such a major impact on his 353 00:16:22,280 --> 00:16:24,640 Speaker 1: own music, kind of shifting the way he thought about 354 00:16:24,680 --> 00:16:26,560 Speaker 1: what music could be or kind of the way to 355 00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:29,920 Speaker 1: write pop music and writing his own response songs. 356 00:16:29,680 --> 00:16:30,960 Speaker 2: To it over the course of his career. 357 00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:33,840 Speaker 1: But yeah, I love every story about his sort of 358 00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:37,840 Speaker 1: just like deep deep obsession with with be My Baby. 359 00:16:38,160 --> 00:16:41,200 Speaker 3: Yes, and it's such a beautiful Colin response. Today happens 360 00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:43,720 Speaker 3: to be the day that the new Beyonce album, Cowboy 361 00:16:43,760 --> 00:16:47,000 Speaker 3: Carter has dropped, so all day I've been obsessed with 362 00:16:47,120 --> 00:16:49,640 Speaker 3: the moment on that album, as I know you're obsessed 363 00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:52,800 Speaker 3: with it too, where Beyonce just starts singing good Vibrations, 364 00:16:53,280 --> 00:16:55,280 Speaker 3: which is such a great like I don't know a reference, 365 00:16:55,320 --> 00:16:59,000 Speaker 3: but you think about where that song comes from. It 366 00:16:59,040 --> 00:17:02,360 Speaker 3: comes very much from Brian Wilson listening to a black 367 00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:06,480 Speaker 3: girl saying on the radio and you know, hearing his 368 00:17:06,520 --> 00:17:09,159 Speaker 3: own story echoed in her voice, and that you know, 369 00:17:09,160 --> 00:17:13,800 Speaker 3: Beyonce's moving that story forward into such a typically brilliant 370 00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:17,639 Speaker 3: and scholarly way in pop girl music. Today, a Taylor 371 00:17:17,680 --> 00:17:20,680 Speaker 3: Swift song that I Know you love, Hey Steven, which 372 00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:23,720 Speaker 3: is a song that we both love and has that 373 00:17:23,800 --> 00:17:26,159 Speaker 3: great moment where it just pauses for the be My 374 00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:30,840 Speaker 3: Baby beat, and it's really great because it's just brilliantly 375 00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:34,440 Speaker 3: poised in the song just to say you know, we're 376 00:17:34,440 --> 00:17:36,639 Speaker 3: just going to have a moment, a moment for Ronnie. 377 00:17:36,720 --> 00:17:41,120 Speaker 3: And it's just such a beautiful affirmation of that continuity 378 00:17:41,160 --> 00:17:44,200 Speaker 3: through the years with Ronnie Specter and her so many 379 00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:46,919 Speaker 3: great inheritors. It's wild just to think in terms of 380 00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:51,040 Speaker 3: one specific song, take Me Home Tonight by any Money, 381 00:17:51,760 --> 00:17:54,479 Speaker 3: And it's so funny that that song in itself has 382 00:17:54,520 --> 00:17:57,119 Speaker 3: such a bizarrely long afterlife. I think if you went 383 00:17:57,160 --> 00:17:59,720 Speaker 3: back in time to the eighties and told people forty 384 00:17:59,800 --> 00:18:03,439 Speaker 3: years from now, you will here take Me Home Tonight constantly, 385 00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:05,720 Speaker 3: just in the course of the day, like you can't 386 00:18:05,840 --> 00:18:08,879 Speaker 3: you know, you can't get into a cab or you know, 387 00:18:09,160 --> 00:18:12,359 Speaker 3: shot for shoes or you know, like by toothpaste at 388 00:18:12,359 --> 00:18:15,000 Speaker 3: the front seat, You're just always going to hear that song, 389 00:18:15,560 --> 00:18:18,400 Speaker 3: which is really kind of mind blowing considering this song 390 00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:21,679 Speaker 3: is very specifically about, you know, listening to be My 391 00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:24,479 Speaker 3: Baby and Eddie Money. Part of the beauty of this 392 00:18:24,560 --> 00:18:27,919 Speaker 3: song is the way Eddie Money himself just you know, 393 00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:30,439 Speaker 3: kind of like ordinary guy, ordinary voice, but a heartful 394 00:18:30,480 --> 00:18:32,600 Speaker 3: of soul like Ronnie Spector, and that he just is 395 00:18:32,840 --> 00:18:35,840 Speaker 3: beat just like Ronnie saying be my little baby, and 396 00:18:35,920 --> 00:18:38,640 Speaker 3: she comes on to sing, and it's really wild that 397 00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:40,719 Speaker 3: that happened at a time when she hadn't had a 398 00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:43,480 Speaker 3: new record or much less a hit in an awful 399 00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:47,960 Speaker 3: long time, and yet that became such a huge part 400 00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:51,720 Speaker 3: of her legend. The fact that the song was inescapable 401 00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:53,760 Speaker 3: so much comes from the fact that, you know, there's 402 00:18:53,760 --> 00:18:56,960 Speaker 3: this other major song that just says just like Ronnie saying, 403 00:18:57,240 --> 00:18:59,639 Speaker 3: be my little baby. And it's so wild how that 404 00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:00,959 Speaker 3: is so biquity seen itself. 405 00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:02,920 Speaker 1: You know, like it's like one of those songs where 406 00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:05,840 Speaker 1: it's like, not only is a song amazing, and like, 407 00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:07,760 Speaker 1: you know, again, like we've talked about so many songs 408 00:19:07,760 --> 00:19:10,480 Speaker 1: on here that sort of had new lives or kind 409 00:19:10,480 --> 00:19:13,399 Speaker 1: of disappeared for a little bit and have researched or 410 00:19:14,119 --> 00:19:17,680 Speaker 1: you know, kind of seeing how legacies play out, especially 411 00:19:17,680 --> 00:19:20,000 Speaker 1: for you know, the older songs that we've talked about. 412 00:19:20,040 --> 00:19:21,600 Speaker 1: But I think with this song, it's like one of 413 00:19:21,640 --> 00:19:24,000 Speaker 1: those things where one is just a perfect song. It's 414 00:19:24,040 --> 00:19:26,440 Speaker 1: hard to not immediately love it the minute hear it, 415 00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:29,240 Speaker 1: no matter what generation you're from or like kind of 416 00:19:29,320 --> 00:19:32,159 Speaker 1: how you come to it. It's also completely unavoidable in 417 00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:35,359 Speaker 1: every capacity. You know, these are artists that are some 418 00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:38,640 Speaker 1: of the most popular right now who are still referencing it. Versus, 419 00:19:38,680 --> 00:19:42,080 Speaker 1: if you are kind of getting into any any artists 420 00:19:42,119 --> 00:19:45,919 Speaker 1: from any decade, you're gonna stumble upon Be My Baby 421 00:19:46,040 --> 00:19:48,240 Speaker 1: in some some form. 422 00:19:48,359 --> 00:19:49,320 Speaker 2: You know, you could turn. 423 00:19:49,119 --> 00:19:52,200 Speaker 1: On any movie or you'll hear it, You'll. 424 00:19:52,080 --> 00:19:53,080 Speaker 2: Turn on any TV show. 425 00:19:53,119 --> 00:19:56,879 Speaker 1: It's like there's like a statistic or something that was 426 00:19:56,960 --> 00:20:00,520 Speaker 1: just like it's over. It's been played over three million 427 00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:03,320 Speaker 1: or something times, and like radio and like TV and 428 00:20:03,680 --> 00:20:05,920 Speaker 1: film and all that, Like it's like crazy how many 429 00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:08,200 Speaker 1: times that this song has been used. 430 00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:11,919 Speaker 2: It's so it's impossible to not discover it, you know. Yes, 431 00:20:12,520 --> 00:20:13,320 Speaker 2: and next. 432 00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:18,120 Speaker 1: Up we will be joined by songwriter Jeff Barry. Right 433 00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:21,639 Speaker 1: now we are joined by the incredible songwriter Jeff Barry. Jeff, 434 00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:23,399 Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining us today. 435 00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:25,080 Speaker 4: My pleasure, my pleasure. 436 00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:26,280 Speaker 3: Thank you so much. 437 00:20:26,359 --> 00:20:26,520 Speaker 4: Sir. 438 00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:30,600 Speaker 3: There are legends and there's Jeff Barry to thank you 439 00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:32,679 Speaker 3: for being here, but also thank you for all the 440 00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:35,600 Speaker 3: songs that you've given the soundtrack of our lives. 441 00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:40,000 Speaker 1: I'm curious before we start talking about Be My Baby specifically. 442 00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:43,040 Speaker 1: I mean, you have such an incredible canon of songs 443 00:20:43,040 --> 00:20:46,240 Speaker 1: that you have been a part of You're a very 444 00:20:46,359 --> 00:20:49,080 Speaker 1: important part of the fabric of music history. I'm curious 445 00:20:49,119 --> 00:20:51,600 Speaker 1: what got you into songwriting in the first place. What 446 00:20:52,440 --> 00:20:54,320 Speaker 1: made you so interested in writing music. 447 00:20:54,520 --> 00:20:58,760 Speaker 4: I grew up in Brooklyn, New York, in that atmosphere 448 00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:02,560 Speaker 4: when it comes time to think about the future. I'd 449 00:21:02,560 --> 00:21:05,440 Speaker 4: put it this way. Songwriting was not on the list 450 00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:10,040 Speaker 4: of you know, job titles. But it was always something 451 00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:13,720 Speaker 4: I did just because I really loved to sing and 452 00:21:13,880 --> 00:21:16,560 Speaker 4: entertain and you know, I had a little do wop 453 00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:21,480 Speaker 4: group and we would we would actually perform local events 454 00:21:21,640 --> 00:21:25,000 Speaker 4: when I was in high school. But I actually didn't 455 00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:28,639 Speaker 4: know that well. I knew, but I didn't consider songwriting 456 00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:32,000 Speaker 4: as an occupation. But I wanted to be an entertainer. 457 00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:37,000 Speaker 4: And someone in my family knew someone who knew someone, 458 00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:40,320 Speaker 4: and I finally got in front of someone in the 459 00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:44,920 Speaker 4: industry to just listen to me as a singer. And 460 00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:50,159 Speaker 4: that person was Arnold Shaw, and he was a music publisher. 461 00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:52,960 Speaker 4: So he listened to me sing. And the only thing 462 00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:56,439 Speaker 4: I could sing we was songs I wrote because I 463 00:21:56,480 --> 00:21:59,800 Speaker 4: only know two chords and I couldn't sing anybody else's songs. 464 00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:03,240 Speaker 4: And he was more interested in the songs than the singer. 465 00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:07,000 Speaker 4: And I was in college at the time, studying something 466 00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:10,919 Speaker 4: that I wasn't really good at. They offered me a 467 00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:14,199 Speaker 4: songwriting job for seventy five bucks a week, so I 468 00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:18,359 Speaker 4: quit college and that's how I became a songwriter. The 469 00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:24,040 Speaker 4: singing the career was sidelined. But you know what, the 470 00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:28,200 Speaker 4: good part is that over my career I was really 471 00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:32,400 Speaker 4: writing my act because then I got to do for charity, 472 00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:37,840 Speaker 4: major events, many many, many events, singing the hits. And 473 00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:40,520 Speaker 4: there's not many artists who can get up and sing, 474 00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:44,800 Speaker 4: you know, a couple of dozen hits. And besides, I 475 00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:47,280 Speaker 4: wasn't being judged as a singer at that point either, 476 00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:49,240 Speaker 4: So it all worked out. 477 00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:53,959 Speaker 3: You've already done so many hits by the time that 478 00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:57,600 Speaker 3: you did Be My Baby. How could you tell or 479 00:22:57,720 --> 00:23:00,000 Speaker 3: could you tell that the song was something special while 480 00:23:00,359 --> 00:23:01,080 Speaker 3: you were writing it? 481 00:23:01,359 --> 00:23:05,960 Speaker 4: You know, I think it's creative instinct. If you're writing 482 00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:10,080 Speaker 4: something that you want people to hear, that's the criteria 483 00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:14,320 Speaker 4: because it's, you know, to some degree, showing off. You 484 00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:17,480 Speaker 4: play them, play people a song and they like it, 485 00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:22,200 Speaker 4: and that's great, and then you start to just play 486 00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:24,919 Speaker 4: trust your instincts. There's no book on it. You know, 487 00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:29,200 Speaker 4: there's dozens of books on songwriting, but when I address 488 00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:32,399 Speaker 4: songwriting classes, I tell them you can't learn how to 489 00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:36,199 Speaker 4: write songs. You can learn music, and you should. I 490 00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:39,080 Speaker 4: wish I had, you know, been able to go to 491 00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:42,240 Speaker 4: Juilliard and know all the chords. But so I write 492 00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:45,719 Speaker 4: the part the singer sings. I write lyrics first, melody second, 493 00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:49,240 Speaker 4: and I mean I've written kind of hits myself, but 494 00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:53,000 Speaker 4: they'll usually be basic chord progressions. But it's great to 495 00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:56,480 Speaker 4: write with people who know the chords. And I really 496 00:23:56,520 --> 00:24:01,240 Speaker 4: do love the co writing processes. Kind of fun. Yeah. 497 00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:05,040 Speaker 1: Do you remember how quickly the song came together? Was 498 00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:07,680 Speaker 1: it something that I felt like it was pouring out 499 00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:09,000 Speaker 1: of the three of you when you were writing it, 500 00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:09,400 Speaker 1: or did. 501 00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:11,240 Speaker 2: It take some time to put together? What was the 502 00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:12,000 Speaker 2: experience like? 503 00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:14,800 Speaker 4: I would say that most of them were done in 504 00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:19,600 Speaker 4: two sittings. For me, the three hours of writing, and 505 00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:23,280 Speaker 4: it's really intense. I mean, I do nothing for three hours. 506 00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:26,879 Speaker 4: I don't even drink or eat or anything, and after 507 00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:30,640 Speaker 4: three hours it's like, Okay, the tank is empty. As 508 00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:33,760 Speaker 4: far as creativity goes. You could push it to longer, 509 00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:36,920 Speaker 4: of course, but two songs. I know how long they took. 510 00:24:37,119 --> 00:24:40,120 Speaker 4: A song I wrote called Ianesty Love You Olivion John 511 00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:45,920 Speaker 4: that took exactly exactly six hours with Peter Allen three 512 00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:49,880 Speaker 4: hours one day, three hours, the next day, Wow song 513 00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:52,920 Speaker 4: of the Year. And then the other was Hanky Panky, 514 00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:55,840 Speaker 4: which Ellie and I wrote in the hall of the 515 00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:58,639 Speaker 4: studio in about ten minutes. 516 00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:04,159 Speaker 3: The experience of writing be My Baby, did you know 517 00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:05,919 Speaker 3: while you were writing it that you were writing a 518 00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:08,040 Speaker 3: song that would make such an impression? 519 00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:12,600 Speaker 4: No, none of the songs did, I really think. You know, 520 00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:17,119 Speaker 4: I believe that they could all be hits. But the 521 00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:21,040 Speaker 4: idea of the hit at the time is different from 522 00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:27,400 Speaker 4: now looking back, because be My Baby was a hit, 523 00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:35,760 Speaker 4: but then it becomes a standard. Nobody was thinking standard. No, seriously, 524 00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:38,320 Speaker 4: you know, like even the most obvious one to me 525 00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:42,280 Speaker 4: is Christmas Baby, Please Come Home. Yeah, we wrote that. 526 00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:45,240 Speaker 4: Was still wanting an original Christmas song in the album, 527 00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:51,320 Speaker 4: and it's becoming, or has become a Christmas standard, and 528 00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:56,280 Speaker 4: that's very cool. Chair just recorded it on her Christmas album. 529 00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:57,720 Speaker 3: Her version is so great. 530 00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:00,400 Speaker 4: You know, most of them are pretty good. I think 531 00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:02,880 Speaker 4: my favorite is You Two. 532 00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:04,879 Speaker 3: It's so great. 533 00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:06,960 Speaker 4: I love what they did with it. 534 00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:11,280 Speaker 1: Do you remember the first time that you heard Ronnie's 535 00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:13,679 Speaker 1: vocals on be My Baby and what was it like 536 00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:17,080 Speaker 1: to hear that song come to life with her voice? 537 00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:22,600 Speaker 4: No, I don't remember the first time. I do remember 538 00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:26,879 Speaker 4: saying to myself that she didn't phrase some of it 539 00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:31,159 Speaker 4: the way I would have. But you know, they were, 540 00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:34,280 Speaker 4: they were they were great records. They just sounded like 541 00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:37,600 Speaker 4: you know, another Phil Spector records. 542 00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:40,000 Speaker 3: You know, you know, you say that they were great records, 543 00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:42,119 Speaker 3: and they certainly were. But it all comes down to 544 00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:44,800 Speaker 3: the songs. And you wrote so many different types of 545 00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:45,639 Speaker 3: classic songs. 546 00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:49,720 Speaker 4: Oh well, that's very much appreciated that you recognize that 547 00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:52,439 Speaker 4: people know about the dua ditties, but they don't know 548 00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:54,960 Speaker 4: about the country hits and the R and B hits 549 00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:58,600 Speaker 4: and the TV theme songs, and they all know the 550 00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:02,639 Speaker 4: other stuff. So I appreciate that recognition because for me, 551 00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:09,040 Speaker 4: it's all about words and notes and the common emotions 552 00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:13,119 Speaker 4: that we all have. So, you know, what genre that 553 00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:17,480 Speaker 4: is created in almost doesn't matter. You're still doing the 554 00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:18,040 Speaker 4: same thing. 555 00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:23,000 Speaker 3: That's absolutely really inspiring to hear you talk about these songs. 556 00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:25,520 Speaker 3: After all the songs you've written. Thank you so much 557 00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:26,800 Speaker 3: for talking with us today. 558 00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:28,080 Speaker 2: We really appreciate it. 559 00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:29,240 Speaker 3: Really an honor. 560 00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:33,480 Speaker 4: Oh it's absolutely my pleasure. I really love to talk 561 00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:37,720 Speaker 4: about it and hopefully inspire people who might be listening 562 00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:38,080 Speaker 4: to this. 563 00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:41,119 Speaker 3: Thank you so much for listening to Rolling Stone's five 564 00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:44,080 Speaker 3: hundred Greatest Songs. This podcast is brought to you by 565 00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:48,240 Speaker 3: Rolling Stone and iHeartMedia. Hosted and written by me, Rob 566 00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:53,360 Speaker 3: Sheffield and Brittany Spanas, Executive produced by Gus Winner, Jason Fine, 567 00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:58,080 Speaker 3: Alex Dale and Kristin Horde, and produced by Jesse Cannon, 568 00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:01,760 Speaker 3: with music supervision by Xiler. Thanks for watching