1 00:00:07,080 --> 00:00:10,039 Speaker 1: Hi everyone, This is Lee Clasgow and we're Talking Transports 2 00:00:10,440 --> 00:00:13,480 Speaker 1: wealth in Bloomberg Intelligence Talking Transports podcast. I'm your host, 3 00:00:13,520 --> 00:00:17,239 Speaker 1: Lee Clascow, Senior Freight Transportation Logistics analyst at Bloomberg Intelligence, 4 00:00:17,440 --> 00:00:20,160 Speaker 1: Bloomberg's in house research arm of almost five hundred analysts 5 00:00:20,160 --> 00:00:23,360 Speaker 1: and strategists around the world. A quick public service announcement 6 00:00:23,400 --> 00:00:26,280 Speaker 1: before we dive in. Your support is instrumental to keep 7 00:00:26,280 --> 00:00:29,400 Speaker 1: bringing great guests and conversations to you, our listeners, and 8 00:00:29,480 --> 00:00:32,440 Speaker 1: we need your support. So please, if you enjoy the podcast, 9 00:00:32,800 --> 00:00:35,400 Speaker 1: share it, like it and leave it comment. And if 10 00:00:35,400 --> 00:00:38,080 Speaker 1: you've got ideas, feedback or just want to talk transports, 11 00:00:38,240 --> 00:00:40,879 Speaker 1: I'm always happy to connect. You can find me on 12 00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:44,199 Speaker 1: the Bloomberg terminal, on LinkedIn or on x at Logistics. Lee, 13 00:00:44,680 --> 00:00:48,159 Speaker 1: I'm very excited to have with us today. Jet McCandless 14 00:00:48,360 --> 00:00:51,320 Speaker 1: the CEO of Project forty four, a company he founded 15 00:00:51,360 --> 00:00:55,600 Speaker 1: in twenty fourteen. Project forty four is an AI platform 16 00:00:55,640 --> 00:00:59,440 Speaker 1: for supply chains. He has advised top us government bodies, 17 00:00:59,480 --> 00:01:02,960 Speaker 1: including the White House Council of Economic Advisors and Howard 18 00:01:03,240 --> 00:01:07,280 Speaker 1: Lutnix at Department of Commerce. He has built in scaled 19 00:01:07,520 --> 00:01:12,360 Speaker 1: category of defining companies including global trends and Metaphora. Welcome 20 00:01:12,400 --> 00:01:13,280 Speaker 1: back to the podcast. 21 00:01:13,319 --> 00:01:13,520 Speaker 2: Jet. 22 00:01:13,560 --> 00:01:15,679 Speaker 1: Thanks for so much for coming back to us. 23 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:18,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you, I appreciate that. Thanks for having me 24 00:01:18,040 --> 00:01:18,399 Speaker 2: back week. 25 00:01:18,800 --> 00:01:21,679 Speaker 1: All Right, I mentioned that, you know, Project forty four 26 00:01:21,880 --> 00:01:23,880 Speaker 1: is an AI platform. Can you provide us with a 27 00:01:23,880 --> 00:01:25,280 Speaker 1: little more details about the company. 28 00:01:25,360 --> 00:01:29,600 Speaker 2: Absolutely. We started Project forty four and twenty fourteen because 29 00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:32,480 Speaker 2: when I was looking around, logistics was running on infrastructure 30 00:01:32,520 --> 00:01:34,920 Speaker 2: that was from the seventies, the eighties, the nineties. You 31 00:01:34,959 --> 00:01:39,800 Speaker 2: know EEDI phone calls, fax machines, spreadsheets. The industry is 32 00:01:39,840 --> 00:01:44,480 Speaker 2: flying really blind. Today. We're the decision intelligence platform for 33 00:01:44,560 --> 00:01:48,480 Speaker 2: the world's largest supply chains. Name a company, it's a customer. 34 00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:51,200 Speaker 2: Whatever car you drou, food you ate today, the shoes 35 00:01:51,240 --> 00:01:54,600 Speaker 2: you're wearing, odds are they're probably a customer of Project 36 00:01:54,600 --> 00:01:58,120 Speaker 2: forty four. And that equates to about one point five 37 00:01:58,160 --> 00:02:01,000 Speaker 2: billion shipments a year, two hundred fifty thousand carriers with 38 00:02:01,120 --> 00:02:08,040 Speaker 2: every mode rail, ocean, road, last mile freight forwarders and 39 00:02:08,080 --> 00:02:14,200 Speaker 2: every geography in the world, Asia, latam Europe, Africa and 40 00:02:14,639 --> 00:02:18,720 Speaker 2: of course North America. And all that volume goes to 41 00:02:18,840 --> 00:02:21,000 Speaker 2: US is about four trillion dollars in the world's GDP 42 00:02:21,160 --> 00:02:24,960 Speaker 2: so a pretty relevant number, and companies like to use 43 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:28,440 Speaker 2: us to accomplish five different outcome. They want to elevate 44 00:02:28,480 --> 00:02:31,120 Speaker 2: their customer experience, they want to decrease their costs, they 45 00:02:31,160 --> 00:02:33,360 Speaker 2: want to improve their cash flow, and they want to 46 00:02:33,400 --> 00:02:36,600 Speaker 2: increase their efficiencies. They also want to minimize their emissions. 47 00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:37,840 Speaker 2: At the end of the day, they just want to 48 00:02:37,840 --> 00:02:40,239 Speaker 2: make decisions faster and better that they can actually trust. 49 00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:43,239 Speaker 1: Hey, Jat, I was always curious, what is behind the 50 00:02:43,320 --> 00:02:45,600 Speaker 1: name Project forty four. Is that like Area fifty one, 51 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:46,800 Speaker 1: what's going on there? 52 00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:51,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, Project forty four. It does think about a minute 53 00:02:51,600 --> 00:02:53,840 Speaker 2: or two to give you give you the name. But 54 00:02:54,480 --> 00:02:59,760 Speaker 2: Route sixty six went from Chicago to LA and it 55 00:02:59,880 --> 00:03:02,359 Speaker 2: was obviously you know, a lot of tourists travel on that, 56 00:03:02,560 --> 00:03:03,680 Speaker 2: and I was trying to think of a name for 57 00:03:03,720 --> 00:03:05,880 Speaker 2: Project forty four. Everything in the industry is always called 58 00:03:05,919 --> 00:03:10,959 Speaker 2: like logistics or something something logistics. And one day or 59 00:03:11,080 --> 00:03:13,120 Speaker 2: night after I walked out of the office when we 60 00:03:13,120 --> 00:03:16,160 Speaker 2: were thinking about Project forty four, I walked out Chicago 61 00:03:16,200 --> 00:03:19,240 Speaker 2: and I looked up at it was about two am. 62 00:03:19,320 --> 00:03:20,680 Speaker 2: I looked up at the street sign and it's at 63 00:03:20,680 --> 00:03:25,320 Speaker 2: the end of historical We'route sixty six and I was like, oh, 64 00:03:25,400 --> 00:03:27,520 Speaker 2: let me research that a little bit. When I researched it, 65 00:03:27,560 --> 00:03:30,959 Speaker 2: I realized that it was the physical infrastructure that connected, 66 00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:35,640 Speaker 2: you know, two major transportation cities. But as the world 67 00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:39,120 Speaker 2: started to modernize, as containers started to happen, Route sixty 68 00:03:39,120 --> 00:03:45,520 Speaker 2: six was mostly replaced with Highway forty four. Yeah, that was, 69 00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:47,320 Speaker 2: of course called Project forty four. And I thought, you know, 70 00:03:47,320 --> 00:03:50,680 Speaker 2: we're replacing all that old infrastructure from the seventies, eighties, 71 00:03:50,680 --> 00:03:52,840 Speaker 2: and nineties, why don't we call ourselves Project forty four. 72 00:03:52,880 --> 00:03:55,480 Speaker 2: Would be the digital replacement for the industry. 73 00:03:55,800 --> 00:03:58,360 Speaker 1: Very cool, good to know. And you guys are a 74 00:03:58,360 --> 00:04:00,440 Speaker 1: private company, you're not public. Can you talk a bit 75 00:04:00,440 --> 00:04:01,680 Speaker 1: about your ownership structure. 76 00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:05,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, we have a number of owners that are on 77 00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:07,840 Speaker 2: the on the cap investors that are on the cap table. 78 00:04:08,440 --> 00:04:12,440 Speaker 2: We've also done some acquisitions in the past, and then 79 00:04:12,680 --> 00:04:16,599 Speaker 2: we've always from the beginning given employees options in the company. 80 00:04:16,680 --> 00:04:20,760 Speaker 2: So it's a relatively fragmented cap table. It is private. 81 00:04:22,279 --> 00:04:24,440 Speaker 2: We do operate with the discipline i'd say of a 82 00:04:24,480 --> 00:04:31,800 Speaker 2: public company, regardless of not having a ticket symbol. And 83 00:04:32,920 --> 00:04:34,560 Speaker 2: you know, when I talk about that and the kind 84 00:04:34,600 --> 00:04:36,960 Speaker 2: of the financial is. You know, we hit operational cash 85 00:04:36,960 --> 00:04:40,839 Speaker 2: flow break even last month, We're looking really good this 86 00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:42,640 Speaker 2: month and all of next year. And we did all 87 00:04:42,640 --> 00:04:45,680 Speaker 2: that while adding on a lot of new arr forty 88 00:04:46,080 --> 00:04:48,800 Speaker 2: year over year. So people always ask us, you know, 89 00:04:48,839 --> 00:04:51,520 Speaker 2: are we going IPO. I always thinking that it's just 90 00:04:51,520 --> 00:04:54,120 Speaker 2: a milestone, it's not a destination. That we're focused on 91 00:04:54,160 --> 00:05:00,800 Speaker 2: building the category defining institution and until we're stay private, 92 00:05:00,880 --> 00:05:05,680 Speaker 2: until until the market is ready, and until until we're ready. 93 00:05:06,360 --> 00:05:09,480 Speaker 1: Right. And so being a platform like you are, there's 94 00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:11,880 Speaker 1: a lot of intangibles that you have. So could you 95 00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:17,320 Speaker 1: just kind of uh contextualize what your product actually, what 96 00:05:17,320 --> 00:05:20,640 Speaker 1: what your biggest products are and services are and kind 97 00:05:20,680 --> 00:05:23,960 Speaker 1: of how do your customers benefit from them? Yeah? 98 00:05:24,240 --> 00:05:29,240 Speaker 2: Absolutely so. Project forty four is a decision decision intelligence platform. 99 00:05:29,880 --> 00:05:32,400 Speaker 2: There are four main product families that sit in there. 100 00:05:32,520 --> 00:05:38,799 Speaker 2: You have the intelligent TMS, visibility, yard operations, and last mile. 101 00:05:39,839 --> 00:05:44,719 Speaker 2: The biggest, I guess that you'd say of the platform 102 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:47,440 Speaker 2: and the biggest thing is our logistics data graph. It's 103 00:05:47,440 --> 00:05:49,640 Speaker 2: the sum of all of our products and the connective 104 00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:54,440 Speaker 2: tissue for the industry. It monitors every shipment carrier and 105 00:05:54,520 --> 00:05:56,840 Speaker 2: all the different modes in one place. It's the largest 106 00:05:56,880 --> 00:06:00,680 Speaker 2: logistics data set in the world. The fact is growing 107 00:06:00,800 --> 00:06:04,479 Speaker 2: product family is going to be our intelligent TMS. We've 108 00:06:04,520 --> 00:06:09,520 Speaker 2: had TMS capabilities for over a decade, but we officially 109 00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:11,960 Speaker 2: and they were all the card but we officially packaged 110 00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:14,880 Speaker 2: them together and launched it as a TMS in August, 111 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:17,960 Speaker 2: and we've been winning head to head against a lot 112 00:06:17,960 --> 00:06:22,480 Speaker 2: of the legacy incumbent tms is since we did that big, 113 00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:24,880 Speaker 2: big launch in August. Pretty remarkable to see how much 114 00:06:24,920 --> 00:06:30,560 Speaker 2: demand has been built into pipelining, already closing deals. I 115 00:06:30,560 --> 00:06:32,960 Speaker 2: think the reason why that is the fast growing product 116 00:06:33,720 --> 00:06:36,320 Speaker 2: and why we're beating these other tms is because because 117 00:06:36,360 --> 00:06:38,479 Speaker 2: we have this large logistics data graph, we're able to 118 00:06:38,520 --> 00:06:42,440 Speaker 2: remove the bias from upstream decisions that a TMS is 119 00:06:42,480 --> 00:06:48,840 Speaker 2: typically making, and so that's really really powerful. The fastest 120 00:06:48,880 --> 00:06:52,560 Speaker 2: growing thing or feature product that we have, I'd say 121 00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:55,839 Speaker 2: it's actually a feature. It's the multi agent orchestration. So 122 00:06:56,600 --> 00:07:00,280 Speaker 2: these are AI agents operating inside the platform and they 123 00:07:00,279 --> 00:07:02,559 Speaker 2: go around all the product families that we talked about, 124 00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:07,080 Speaker 2: and it's growing because it's not just software, it's really 125 00:07:07,080 --> 00:07:11,600 Speaker 2: an automated workflow and our agents work differently than maybe 126 00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:13,160 Speaker 2: some of the other startups that are out there. I'll 127 00:07:13,200 --> 00:07:15,840 Speaker 2: call us a growth company though, because we're able to 128 00:07:16,320 --> 00:07:20,360 Speaker 2: analyze the exceptions, figure out which agent can actually solve it, 129 00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:24,480 Speaker 2: and then optimize the outreach based on maybe the carrier's 130 00:07:24,520 --> 00:07:28,560 Speaker 2: preference or their language, or that they've already agreed your decencies. 131 00:07:28,840 --> 00:07:32,960 Speaker 2: Then we can orchestrate the solution. And so that's that's 132 00:07:33,000 --> 00:07:36,200 Speaker 2: the fastest growing feature, is the multi agent orchestration. 133 00:07:36,720 --> 00:07:39,400 Speaker 1: And for those kids listening at, TMS is a transportation 134 00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:43,920 Speaker 1: management system. And so you know, when you guys started, 135 00:07:44,080 --> 00:07:46,520 Speaker 1: you know, AI wasn't the least wasn't a thing in 136 00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:51,120 Speaker 1: the in the in the mainstream. Today it's everywhere. If 137 00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:53,320 Speaker 1: you mentioned it on an earnings call, you might get 138 00:07:53,320 --> 00:07:57,280 Speaker 1: an extra turn on evaluation. Can you talk about the 139 00:07:57,320 --> 00:08:02,240 Speaker 1: evolution of project forty for and how you've used LMS 140 00:08:02,280 --> 00:08:06,320 Speaker 1: and AI integrating that as part of your products. 141 00:08:06,640 --> 00:08:10,760 Speaker 2: So we are solving what we would call the cognitive gap. 142 00:08:10,960 --> 00:08:14,640 Speaker 2: That's the point where supply chain complexity exceeds human capacity 143 00:08:14,840 --> 00:08:17,520 Speaker 2: to respond in real time. It comes down to really 144 00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:22,800 Speaker 2: three main areas versus the analyze loms interpret unstructured data, 145 00:08:23,960 --> 00:08:28,000 Speaker 2: customs holds driver communication, different languages and determined root cause 146 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:32,800 Speaker 2: and seconds. The second is optimized the system evaluates turn 147 00:08:32,840 --> 00:08:36,320 Speaker 2: and fifty thousand carriers profiles to pick the right channel 148 00:08:36,360 --> 00:08:40,760 Speaker 2: and the right sequence. And then the third is to orchestrate, 149 00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:46,560 Speaker 2: so specialized agents handle voice, email, text system updates. They 150 00:08:46,600 --> 00:08:52,520 Speaker 2: all coordinate through one control plan. As a result, like 151 00:08:52,559 --> 00:08:54,959 Speaker 2: a mispickup that used to take maybe four hours and 152 00:08:55,080 --> 00:08:59,000 Speaker 2: phone tagged resolve can be resolved in minutes for typically 153 00:08:59,240 --> 00:08:59,880 Speaker 2: a dollar or so. 154 00:09:00,520 --> 00:09:04,040 Speaker 1: And so you know you mentioned earlier like just name 155 00:09:04,120 --> 00:09:07,199 Speaker 1: a company in their customers. So are your customers mostly 156 00:09:07,240 --> 00:09:11,880 Speaker 1: on the shipping site or do you have customers on 157 00:09:11,920 --> 00:09:13,559 Speaker 1: the capacity side as well. 158 00:09:14,960 --> 00:09:17,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a clarifying point. We're we're a network business 159 00:09:17,920 --> 00:09:21,200 Speaker 2: and there's some a term it's called side switching that happens. 160 00:09:22,440 --> 00:09:26,679 Speaker 2: So our i CP or ideal customer profile is really 161 00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:29,959 Speaker 2: the global two thousand shippers and the top one hundred 162 00:09:30,559 --> 00:09:34,720 Speaker 2: logistics service providers. So when I said name a company, 163 00:09:34,720 --> 00:09:37,160 Speaker 2: it's probably a customer I'm talking about whoever you had 164 00:09:37,160 --> 00:09:40,000 Speaker 2: coffee with this morning, Yeah, one of our one of 165 00:09:40,040 --> 00:09:44,800 Speaker 2: our customers, you know, whether it's Starbucks or Piets, some 166 00:09:44,840 --> 00:09:46,559 Speaker 2: the other companies can get a little bit more sensitive. 167 00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:49,040 Speaker 2: But if you have a laptop or phone in your 168 00:09:49,040 --> 00:09:52,880 Speaker 2: pocket where it's Google or someone else, it's it's it's 169 00:09:52,920 --> 00:09:57,800 Speaker 2: a customer. Retailers, Amazon, Home Depot, Costco, those are all customers. 170 00:09:57,840 --> 00:09:59,960 Speaker 2: If you drove in a car today, it's probably a 171 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:04,560 Speaker 2: customer for Toyota and Nissan, Mitsubishi, Subaru. Like the list 172 00:10:04,640 --> 00:10:08,120 Speaker 2: just goes on and on, and then you also can 173 00:10:08,160 --> 00:10:12,720 Speaker 2: get into other companies like TSMC. So really a wide 174 00:10:12,800 --> 00:10:15,319 Speaker 2: range of those global two thousand chippers. But we also 175 00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:19,840 Speaker 2: have the largest freight forwarders and the largest three pls 176 00:10:19,840 --> 00:10:21,920 Speaker 2: that use us, and that's where we've kind of changed 177 00:10:21,920 --> 00:10:23,960 Speaker 2: our model. We at one point the high water mark, 178 00:10:23,960 --> 00:10:26,199 Speaker 2: I think we've probably had five or six hundred of them, 179 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:28,800 Speaker 2: and we really downsized that to about the top one 180 00:10:28,880 --> 00:10:33,880 Speaker 2: hundred and so that's Coogan, Augle, DSV, Coyote Logistics companies 181 00:10:33,920 --> 00:10:37,800 Speaker 2: like that we still do business with. And those companies 182 00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:41,760 Speaker 2: side switch, those freightfwarders and three pls from being a 183 00:10:41,760 --> 00:10:44,440 Speaker 2: capacity provider on one side, on the other side, they 184 00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:47,199 Speaker 2: become a customer if they elect to. 185 00:10:47,160 --> 00:10:52,199 Speaker 1: Be gotcha, and so do people transact loads on yours 186 00:10:52,360 --> 00:10:55,920 Speaker 1: or is the platform a tool, meaning you're not a 187 00:10:55,920 --> 00:10:58,079 Speaker 1: broker or forward or right. 188 00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:01,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, we're not a broker, not a forwarder. In fact, 189 00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:04,160 Speaker 2: we for having some contracts that we're never getting an 190 00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:08,319 Speaker 2: n v OCC or voter carrier brokerage authority or something 191 00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:13,240 Speaker 2: like that because it's not really where we're want to be. 192 00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:16,840 Speaker 2: What we are as a neutral platform that communicates information 193 00:11:17,960 --> 00:11:22,480 Speaker 2: back and forth between all the different parties that are there, 194 00:11:22,480 --> 00:11:25,400 Speaker 2: and it works essentially all the way from the PO 195 00:11:26,640 --> 00:11:32,480 Speaker 2: creation to the rate quote, to the transit times, to 196 00:11:32,600 --> 00:11:36,440 Speaker 2: the tendering to say like the EBO of lading, to 197 00:11:36,520 --> 00:11:40,440 Speaker 2: the pickup status, to the in transport status, the predictive 198 00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:43,600 Speaker 2: bt as the delivery the documents and the invoice, and 199 00:11:43,640 --> 00:11:46,359 Speaker 2: of course that's different across different modes and different geographies, 200 00:11:46,400 --> 00:11:49,400 Speaker 2: but a high level you could see that that workflow 201 00:11:49,440 --> 00:11:55,160 Speaker 2: that happens there, and we have that connectivity to more 202 00:11:55,200 --> 00:11:57,719 Speaker 2: carriers than any other platform in the world in a 203 00:11:57,760 --> 00:12:01,800 Speaker 2: higher fidelity way, mostly through a guys and through leveraging 204 00:12:01,840 --> 00:12:08,719 Speaker 2: agents for companies to have execution and visibility for their 205 00:12:08,760 --> 00:12:09,640 Speaker 2: supply chains. 206 00:12:09,920 --> 00:12:14,559 Speaker 1: Obviously, we're in early innings with AI in ll M. 207 00:12:14,760 --> 00:12:17,560 Speaker 1: Where do you see this going in the next couple 208 00:12:17,559 --> 00:12:20,920 Speaker 1: of years, like, what can the technology do for your customers? 209 00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:25,280 Speaker 2: Well, I think legacy systems were built for a world 210 00:12:25,280 --> 00:12:29,600 Speaker 2: that stood still. They had monthly cycles and predicted demand, 211 00:12:29,679 --> 00:12:34,280 Speaker 2: and that world's gone. We've seen the evolution from control 212 00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:36,640 Speaker 2: towers that don't work and they show up and they 213 00:12:36,679 --> 00:12:39,880 Speaker 2: make a big mess. We've seen digital twins that can 214 00:12:40,040 --> 00:12:43,719 Speaker 2: simulate that that mess. Although if used properly, they can 215 00:12:43,760 --> 00:12:48,280 Speaker 2: be valuable now. But the problem is both they rely 216 00:12:48,400 --> 00:12:51,599 Speaker 2: on humans to fix that. The reality is by the 217 00:12:51,640 --> 00:12:54,040 Speaker 2: time a human reads the report and decides what to do, 218 00:12:54,120 --> 00:12:59,120 Speaker 2: the opportunities often gotten there can't be adjusted. The human 219 00:12:59,240 --> 00:13:03,560 Speaker 2: is the bottom that and AI removes that latens. It 220 00:13:03,640 --> 00:13:07,640 Speaker 2: shifts us from knowing what to go and do and 221 00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:11,079 Speaker 2: take one of our largest customers. There's an American retailer 222 00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:15,720 Speaker 2: that's that every once probably bought a suit or writing 223 00:13:15,800 --> 00:13:19,840 Speaker 2: one from them before talks for a wedding. They're able 224 00:13:19,880 --> 00:13:23,360 Speaker 2: to see inbound inventory one hundred and eighty days out. 225 00:13:23,800 --> 00:13:26,160 Speaker 2: And so in a world of kinds of rising terraces, 226 00:13:26,160 --> 00:13:29,719 Speaker 2: port strikes uncertainty, this kind of operational environment that we're 227 00:13:29,760 --> 00:13:34,880 Speaker 2: in Venezuela that isn't just them planning. That's a competitive weapon, 228 00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:38,760 Speaker 2: and they aren't reacting to the disruption. They're already routed 229 00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:42,559 Speaker 2: around it before competitors that they've they've changed their plan 230 00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:45,680 Speaker 2: and updated it and set the proper expectations for their 231 00:13:45,720 --> 00:13:49,319 Speaker 2: internal customers and their external customers and likely their shareholders 232 00:13:49,720 --> 00:13:50,040 Speaker 2: got you. 233 00:13:50,400 --> 00:13:52,840 Speaker 1: You know, there's a lot of talk about visibility and 234 00:13:52,880 --> 00:13:56,200 Speaker 1: how you know that's hard when you're talking about containers 235 00:13:56,240 --> 00:14:00,760 Speaker 1: and especially international freight. Can you talk about uh, you know, 236 00:14:00,840 --> 00:14:05,040 Speaker 1: other failings today of a lot of those visibility platforms 237 00:14:05,040 --> 00:14:06,520 Speaker 1: out there and kind of what you guys are doing 238 00:14:06,520 --> 00:14:07,199 Speaker 1: a little differently. 239 00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:09,839 Speaker 2: Ye, Visibility is a big, big word, but let's kind 240 00:14:09,880 --> 00:14:13,880 Speaker 2: of I guess, let's define what visibility is because I 241 00:14:13,960 --> 00:14:15,640 Speaker 2: always kind of you always get people from the cheap 242 00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:19,000 Speaker 2: seats and if probably see some comments on on on 243 00:14:19,040 --> 00:14:21,280 Speaker 2: this podcast, what's posted on social media that have these 244 00:14:21,360 --> 00:14:24,640 Speaker 2: kind of opinions and ideas, and it's always like, well, 245 00:14:24,680 --> 00:14:26,760 Speaker 2: let's just define what it is because it means a 246 00:14:26,760 --> 00:14:28,160 Speaker 2: lot of things. So a lot of a lot of 247 00:14:28,240 --> 00:14:32,920 Speaker 2: people I would define you have transportation visibility, which is 248 00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:37,560 Speaker 2: essentially tracking from time to pickup to delivery combined with 249 00:14:37,640 --> 00:14:40,000 Speaker 2: an ETA and that could be on any mode and 250 00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:46,200 Speaker 2: any geography, and then then I would go to uh uh, 251 00:14:46,320 --> 00:14:52,520 Speaker 2: you have inventory in motion visibility, and that is when 252 00:14:52,520 --> 00:14:56,480 Speaker 2: you could stitch together multiple modes of transportation of the 253 00:14:56,480 --> 00:15:00,160 Speaker 2: TRANSPORTATIONI visibility, and you can add in important information and 254 00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:03,160 Speaker 2: like PO and skew or part number or sales order, 255 00:15:03,560 --> 00:15:06,480 Speaker 2: anything at all like that. And so we're the only 256 00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:08,360 Speaker 2: company in the world that can do that inventory and 257 00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:11,200 Speaker 2: motion visibility. And the reason why is that we have 258 00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:16,080 Speaker 2: the global network and the multi modes. I guess smaller 259 00:15:16,120 --> 00:15:19,240 Speaker 2: regional players are something you could do it if you're 260 00:15:19,280 --> 00:15:21,440 Speaker 2: just looking at like a domestic supply chain or something, 261 00:15:21,480 --> 00:15:27,120 Speaker 2: but that's not our customers. Typically when you look at visibility, 262 00:15:28,120 --> 00:15:30,520 Speaker 2: it does get it could get a bad rapp sometimes, 263 00:15:30,520 --> 00:15:33,280 Speaker 2: But the reality is that it's definitely the hardest technology 264 00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:38,280 Speaker 2: to build within supply chain and logistics because it's so 265 00:15:38,440 --> 00:15:41,240 Speaker 2: dependent on the primary source of data, which is the 266 00:15:41,320 --> 00:15:45,400 Speaker 2: carriers themselves, and they're on your own digitalization journey. They 267 00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:47,240 Speaker 2: have been for ten years and there's probably another ten 268 00:15:47,320 --> 00:15:53,080 Speaker 2: years ahead head for them, and so those failings on 269 00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:58,600 Speaker 2: visibility usually go back to the primary source of data. 270 00:15:59,720 --> 00:16:03,240 Speaker 2: I think visibility in general, like for us some of it. 271 00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:06,160 Speaker 2: If it fails when it stops at the alert, If 272 00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:08,560 Speaker 2: it's a dashboard that says a shipment is delayed without 273 00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:11,960 Speaker 2: showing downstream impact and what to do about it. That 274 00:16:12,040 --> 00:16:16,480 Speaker 2: creates a noise, which creates work and the gap between 275 00:16:16,520 --> 00:16:19,360 Speaker 2: seeing the problem and solving it. And that's why we 276 00:16:19,400 --> 00:16:22,680 Speaker 2: build our platform unique in four different layers. The first 277 00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:25,760 Speaker 2: is connect, the next is the C, which is visibility 278 00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:28,760 Speaker 2: you're talking about, and then it's to act, and then 279 00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:32,320 Speaker 2: it's to automate, and visibility, like I said, is within 280 00:16:32,440 --> 00:16:35,680 Speaker 2: C and that's why we're doubling down on ACT and automate, 281 00:16:36,120 --> 00:16:37,720 Speaker 2: so then you can see when a container stuck in 282 00:16:37,800 --> 00:16:40,240 Speaker 2: a port. It's kind of useless information unless you know 283 00:16:40,400 --> 00:16:44,120 Speaker 2: does this actually delay or product a production line? Does 284 00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:47,080 Speaker 2: it need to be rerouted? Can you actually expedite it 285 00:16:47,080 --> 00:16:50,640 Speaker 2: for a backup. When you combine that with like an 286 00:16:50,640 --> 00:16:53,520 Speaker 2: AI Disruption navigator that we have that drills down to 287 00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:57,120 Speaker 2: those specific orders and skews and shows exactly what revenues 288 00:16:57,160 --> 00:16:59,960 Speaker 2: at risk, you can really start to see some great 289 00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:05,320 Speaker 2: improvements For us. We're seeing really healthy reduction and disruption 290 00:17:06,800 --> 00:17:09,560 Speaker 2: improvements from our customer base. Some are saying thirty, forty, 291 00:17:09,560 --> 00:17:13,399 Speaker 2: even fifty percent, And so I think that's what you 292 00:17:13,680 --> 00:17:17,240 Speaker 2: have to combine is act layer with visibility to get 293 00:17:17,280 --> 00:17:19,080 Speaker 2: the most value out of it. And you also have 294 00:17:19,119 --> 00:17:22,640 Speaker 2: to select a visibility company that has really obsessed over 295 00:17:22,840 --> 00:17:25,480 Speaker 2: getting high fidelity, which for us is the step right 296 00:17:25,480 --> 00:17:28,639 Speaker 2: before see your visibility, which is to be able to 297 00:17:28,680 --> 00:17:32,360 Speaker 2: connect to all the data sources really effectively with APIs 298 00:17:32,359 --> 00:17:33,240 Speaker 2: and agents. 299 00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:36,320 Speaker 1: So you mentioned earlier you know your customers are two 300 00:17:36,359 --> 00:17:39,320 Speaker 1: thousand largest global shippers and that you're dealing with one 301 00:17:39,359 --> 00:17:43,040 Speaker 1: hundred of the largest logistics providers. You know, we're heading 302 00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:46,600 Speaker 1: into a new year. A lot of people like to 303 00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:50,560 Speaker 1: talk about what they expect over the next coming twelve months. 304 00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:53,879 Speaker 1: You know, from your conversations with your customers, what do 305 00:17:53,920 --> 00:17:56,000 Speaker 1: you think the freight markets are going to look like 306 00:17:56,040 --> 00:17:59,040 Speaker 1: in twenty twenty six relative to how they did the 307 00:17:59,119 --> 00:17:59,960 Speaker 1: last twelve months. 308 00:18:00,119 --> 00:18:01,639 Speaker 2: I think twenty twenty six is going to be the 309 00:18:01,680 --> 00:18:05,120 Speaker 2: year the great reshuffle. We're witnessing the new world order 310 00:18:05,119 --> 00:18:08,040 Speaker 2: where the US is leveraging its influence in ways that 311 00:18:08,119 --> 00:18:12,359 Speaker 2: go far beyond simple tariffs. This is a structural change. 312 00:18:12,359 --> 00:18:16,400 Speaker 2: It's no longer disruption. This is an operating environment. It's 313 00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:18,920 Speaker 2: the operating environment that we're going to be in for 314 00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:24,320 Speaker 2: likely many many years, and we see a divergence out there. 315 00:18:24,359 --> 00:18:27,360 Speaker 2: By the end of twenty twenty six, the cracks will 316 00:18:27,400 --> 00:18:30,719 Speaker 2: show more than what we saw last year. Last year 317 00:18:30,760 --> 00:18:33,280 Speaker 2: a lot of people got passes for you know, we're 318 00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:35,480 Speaker 2: doing AI, We're doing this, and that these cracks are 319 00:18:35,480 --> 00:18:37,840 Speaker 2: going to start to show throughout twenty twenty six. By 320 00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:39,360 Speaker 2: twenty twenty seven, we're going to be able to see 321 00:18:39,359 --> 00:18:40,879 Speaker 2: who the winners and the losers are. It's going to 322 00:18:40,880 --> 00:18:44,080 Speaker 2: be very, very obvious in these global two thousand shippers, 323 00:18:44,080 --> 00:18:46,600 Speaker 2: which really make up a large percentage of the Western 324 00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:50,840 Speaker 2: world's economy, and that dividing line of who the winners 325 00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:52,320 Speaker 2: and losers are is going to be who has the 326 00:18:52,359 --> 00:18:55,920 Speaker 2: decision advantage. The winners will be the companies that can 327 00:18:56,119 --> 00:19:00,200 Speaker 2: sense a shift of a strike or a current event 328 00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:04,040 Speaker 2: or autonomously re route before the news even hits the 329 00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:07,040 Speaker 2: mainstream media. But I think the biggest shift that we're 330 00:19:07,040 --> 00:19:10,080 Speaker 2: gonna see in twenty twenty six is depending on the 331 00:19:10,160 --> 00:19:13,879 Speaker 2: last twelve months and twenty twenty five we saw kind 332 00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:16,439 Speaker 2: of this pilot fatigue. It T teams were overrun with 333 00:19:16,520 --> 00:19:20,680 Speaker 2: AI science projects, some work most didn't. That error is over. 334 00:19:20,920 --> 00:19:23,560 Speaker 2: In twenty twenty six, we see the hype is gone, 335 00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:27,520 Speaker 2: the bill is due. Companies demand hard ROI for their 336 00:19:27,560 --> 00:19:31,520 Speaker 2: AI projects and software in general. This means we saw 337 00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:33,920 Speaker 2: kind of the recording for software come true about two 338 00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:37,800 Speaker 2: years ago hard ROI only, and so we have these 339 00:19:37,800 --> 00:19:41,720 Speaker 2: two catch up with AI and software both required hard ROI. 340 00:19:42,359 --> 00:19:45,480 Speaker 2: And I think what this means is that also it 341 00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:48,520 Speaker 2: will no longer be the catalyst for these AI projects. 342 00:19:48,920 --> 00:19:52,080 Speaker 2: They may be the gay Capers for security, but department 343 00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:54,479 Speaker 2: heads must own the budget. They're gonna have to get 344 00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:57,160 Speaker 2: it through actually cost reduction on their on their head count. 345 00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:01,200 Speaker 2: They're gonna be more responsible for who they're electing because 346 00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:03,960 Speaker 2: it's more business logic than it is just it. And 347 00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:06,880 Speaker 2: they're also going to be responsible to prove this ROI. 348 00:20:07,520 --> 00:20:09,080 Speaker 2: And so the companies are going to win in twenty 349 00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:12,600 Speaker 2: twenty six. Aren't the ones buying the most AI. They're 350 00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:14,920 Speaker 2: gonna be the ones with the leadership team and overall 351 00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:17,479 Speaker 2: talent and the team that can actually apply it to 352 00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:18,119 Speaker 2: the P and L. 353 00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:22,720 Speaker 1: And then do you think you know, because of the 354 00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:24,800 Speaker 1: constant change that we're going to be having do you 355 00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:29,800 Speaker 1: think this is going to be a more difficult market 356 00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:32,800 Speaker 1: for shipper's relative to last year, which was obviously not 357 00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:33,520 Speaker 1: an easy year. 358 00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:40,159 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'd say that that comment in general is probably true, 359 00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:43,320 Speaker 2: and I noticed it, and I'm really fortunate because I 360 00:20:43,359 --> 00:20:45,800 Speaker 2: get to meet with all these different industries and all 361 00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:50,240 Speaker 2: these different countries and geographies around around the world, and 362 00:20:50,240 --> 00:20:53,080 Speaker 2: I would say in some geographies it was easier for 363 00:20:53,119 --> 00:20:57,920 Speaker 2: others and some industries. We have some customers and industries 364 00:20:57,920 --> 00:21:01,359 Speaker 2: that are really grew quite quite well last year and 365 00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:05,160 Speaker 2: very impressive. And then when I get to say, like Europe, 366 00:21:05,920 --> 00:21:08,600 Speaker 2: which I spent about usually ninety days a year, in 367 00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:14,240 Speaker 2: generally speaking, it's a pretty sad song for like a 368 00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:19,880 Speaker 2: lot of the manufacturers that are there. And I'm not 369 00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:26,600 Speaker 2: super optimistic about European manufacturing this year. And that's just 370 00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:29,280 Speaker 2: from the own numbers that they report and the plans 371 00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:32,000 Speaker 2: that they share publicly. I think we should take them 372 00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:36,440 Speaker 2: at phase value. I think that there will be an 373 00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:40,000 Speaker 2: opportunity for the companies that are leveraging AI and that 374 00:21:40,119 --> 00:21:42,920 Speaker 2: have modernized their supply chains that they're going to have 375 00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:45,760 Speaker 2: this decision advantage and they're going to be able to 376 00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:50,480 Speaker 2: consolidate their industries and whether or not you think that's 377 00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:52,720 Speaker 2: good or bad, but they will be able to consolidate, 378 00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:59,560 Speaker 2: and they will bring efficiencies to that both operational and sourcing. 379 00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:02,480 Speaker 2: Supply chain is going to be the differentiator there, I think. 380 00:22:03,119 --> 00:22:04,800 Speaker 1: Right, you know a lot of people like to talk 381 00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:08,399 Speaker 1: about near shoring or bringing you know, decoupling from China, 382 00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:11,879 Speaker 1: at least on the in the US side. Do you 383 00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:14,680 Speaker 1: see that actually happening, because I mean, given the uncertainty 384 00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:18,840 Speaker 1: of that the current terrorists are providing, it doesn't necessarily 385 00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:22,480 Speaker 1: mean it makes sense to open up manufacturing in Mexico 386 00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:26,560 Speaker 1: or for that matter, to start any major projects here 387 00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:27,480 Speaker 1: in the US. 388 00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:30,480 Speaker 2: I think that there are some industries that are just 389 00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:34,200 Speaker 2: a matter of national security that the US is probably 390 00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:38,159 Speaker 2: very interested and bringing back on on shore. And this 391 00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:43,320 Speaker 2: I think is mostly public, but this is life sciences 392 00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:48,320 Speaker 2: and defense, and you have kind of these auxiliary industries 393 00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:52,040 Speaker 2: that help support those two primary goals. And in fact 394 00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:59,720 Speaker 2: that we're seeing near shoring, on shoring, friendshuring multiple vendors 395 00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:03,439 Speaker 2: if it's not possible to bring it back back on 396 00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:09,800 Speaker 2: shore with different countries depending on the political risk. And 397 00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:12,600 Speaker 2: I think trub administration has been pretty clear with that. 398 00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:14,919 Speaker 2: When I talk to say Howard Lutnik or something like that, 399 00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:22,560 Speaker 2: they're they're they're pretty clear about that. Also, when I 400 00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:27,920 Speaker 2: look at how complicated these supply chains are and what 401 00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:30,119 Speaker 2: it takes to make so many of the products that 402 00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:34,680 Speaker 2: we're involved with us as consumers or businesses used, it's very, 403 00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:37,720 Speaker 2: very difficult to have that all sourced in one country. 404 00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:42,800 Speaker 2: And we could put aside, you know, who has access 405 00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:47,200 Speaker 2: to minerals, rare earth, which is very relevant, but put 406 00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:49,840 Speaker 2: data aside, you just have this reality is that a 407 00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:52,840 Speaker 2: lot of this stuff is pretty messy to make. It 408 00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:59,119 Speaker 2: can damage water, local water systems and environments. And do 409 00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:02,199 Speaker 2: we really have the dollar int for that in the 410 00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:06,199 Speaker 2: US And answer is probably somewhat yet, but not not 411 00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:08,399 Speaker 2: as much as maybe some other regions of the of 412 00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:12,200 Speaker 2: the world. And you know, we've all done that. When 413 00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:15,520 Speaker 2: you visit China versus US, you notice the difference in 414 00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:19,399 Speaker 2: air quality, environmental UH differences, And one of the reasons 415 00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:23,280 Speaker 2: is because they're making nasty, nasty stuff the rest of 416 00:24:23,280 --> 00:24:27,240 Speaker 2: the world to benefit from. And you know, you go 417 00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:32,360 Speaker 2: to the River and Montana or Wyoming and or Canada, 418 00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:34,760 Speaker 2: and if it's pretty it's pretty pretty beautiful and pretty 419 00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:40,120 Speaker 2: pretty clear. You also have this thing that'll be interesting 420 00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:46,200 Speaker 2: as robotics themselves, like how will robots play play to 421 00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:50,800 Speaker 2: play in hand? Because a lot of the talent that's 422 00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:52,560 Speaker 2: in the US or late before in the US probably 423 00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:55,000 Speaker 2: doesn't want to do some of these these jobs. And 424 00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:59,119 Speaker 2: quite honestly, from a structural standpoint, we can't be competitive, 425 00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:02,359 Speaker 2: not just because wages per hour, but when you go 426 00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:05,439 Speaker 2: to manufacturing facilities, to say in China, and you have 427 00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:11,800 Speaker 2: optimized housing on site with manufacturing, the cost of that 428 00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:16,040 Speaker 2: individual living is significantly less than someone that lives ten 429 00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:18,840 Speaker 2: miles from the manufacturing plant, has a single family house 430 00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:21,320 Speaker 2: and has a dog and et cetera, et cetera. So 431 00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:24,480 Speaker 2: you just do a bottoms up cost analysis of just 432 00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:28,959 Speaker 2: that human beings being supported. It's not just low. You know, 433 00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:31,159 Speaker 2: people have been to say, well it's some of the 434 00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:33,440 Speaker 2: cost per hour. It's like what's the makeup of these 435 00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:36,360 Speaker 2: two lifestyles. So US is going to have to get 436 00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:38,480 Speaker 2: more in their robotics. I'm excited want to see that 437 00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:42,320 Speaker 2: innovation coming here. I do, unfortunately think we're probably behind 438 00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:47,760 Speaker 2: China on that. But there are some some green shoots 439 00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:49,879 Speaker 2: that I'm optimistic about but Genna speaking, I think this 440 00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:54,240 Speaker 2: is going to take a long time, supply chains rewiring 441 00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:58,760 Speaker 2: closer to hubs to consumers that that happens, and I 442 00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:03,600 Speaker 2: think that we're going to see some really interesting dynamics 443 00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:05,920 Speaker 2: in this new operating environment. And certainly the news of 444 00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:09,199 Speaker 2: Venezuela this week, a lot of people weren't predicting that. 445 00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:12,159 Speaker 2: I was looking at the like the Veggas odds on 446 00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:14,840 Speaker 2: that and have been trending down for a significant amount 447 00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:16,879 Speaker 2: of time and then of course spike to one hundred percent, 448 00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:23,639 Speaker 2: and that that's going to free up resources that people 449 00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:25,719 Speaker 2: hadn't put in the equation before. 450 00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:28,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, that wasn't my BEng Go card for twenty twenty six. 451 00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:30,639 Speaker 1: Do you have any you have any thoughts about the 452 00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:34,879 Speaker 1: proposed merger between Union Pacific and Norfolk Southern or do 453 00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:38,720 Speaker 1: you you know maybe kind of what you're hearing from 454 00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:41,919 Speaker 1: the shippers that you speak to about that, you know. 455 00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:44,840 Speaker 2: I don't have a lot of insight on that, haven't 456 00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:47,560 Speaker 2: been following very closely. I tend to think that the 457 00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:53,960 Speaker 2: two is essentially is it duopoly as they are, so 458 00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:57,520 Speaker 2: I guess it'll be interesting to see what the administration allows. 459 00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:02,199 Speaker 2: I think there's tremendous potential and rail both from an 460 00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:07,320 Speaker 2: efficiency standpoint and environmental And so you know, if there's 461 00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:11,560 Speaker 2: some type of proposal that would have requirements or something, 462 00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:14,880 Speaker 2: if the government was to ask me what I would 463 00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:16,840 Speaker 2: think about it, I would say, well, put requirements in 464 00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:19,919 Speaker 2: there that it needs to be more capacity, needs to 465 00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:25,560 Speaker 2: operate faster, and if we can do that, then that 466 00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:27,720 Speaker 2: that could work out really really well. But if you 467 00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:33,520 Speaker 2: just have consolidation of two relatively profitable entities that play 468 00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:37,520 Speaker 2: by a very unique set of rules already, it's difficult 469 00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:40,840 Speaker 2: for me to see how that's beneficial for the end 470 00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:45,200 Speaker 2: consumer or the shippers themselves. 471 00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:48,800 Speaker 1: And for those listening, you are at a disadvantage space. 472 00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:52,440 Speaker 1: Just behind jet he has got a Union Pacific locomotive 473 00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:55,359 Speaker 1: and some really cool rail cars. That did you do 474 00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:58,120 Speaker 1: that spray painting on those rail cars or got them 475 00:27:58,200 --> 00:27:58,359 Speaker 1: like that? 476 00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:03,000 Speaker 2: Oh? You know, my my EA has been at these 477 00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:06,199 Speaker 2: like eighteen years. When we moved into this office, I 478 00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:09,639 Speaker 2: said I'd be cool to have some trains, and then 479 00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:12,080 Speaker 2: they brought them in. I go there, pretty shiny, and 480 00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:14,080 Speaker 2: she said, why don't we go down and to the 481 00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:16,439 Speaker 2: rail yard. Here We'll take pictures and we have a 482 00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:21,000 Speaker 2: guy professionally graffiti them. H oh, really match them. I 483 00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:22,679 Speaker 2: always get a little nervous. I could, let's say, if 484 00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:25,520 Speaker 2: I'm on Bloomberg TV or something, I said, I should 485 00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:29,440 Speaker 2: check to make sure there's no gang symbols are. 486 00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:30,760 Speaker 1: Or curse words that you just can't make out. But 487 00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:32,320 Speaker 1: they look pretty cool. 488 00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:36,200 Speaker 2: Thanks. Thanks, I should actually put more effort into reviewing those. 489 00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:42,720 Speaker 1: So you know, what's the next frontier for Project forty 490 00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:45,040 Speaker 1: four over the next three five years, because obviously there's 491 00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:48,520 Speaker 1: going technology is going to be driving a lot of innovations. 492 00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:52,800 Speaker 1: Are you looking to get into different services, different markets? 493 00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:55,520 Speaker 1: Kind of where do you see the company going? 494 00:28:55,800 --> 00:29:00,600 Speaker 2: I think it will continue to be financially disciplined. We'll 495 00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:05,960 Speaker 2: continue to build out this decision intelligence platform. We may 496 00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:08,680 Speaker 2: do a branding shift and start to call it a 497 00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:12,440 Speaker 2: supply chain operating system. You know, that'll kind of be 498 00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:16,680 Speaker 2: a TVD and then we're continue to grow. We're really 499 00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:19,440 Speaker 2: fortunate with the growth rate the trajectory we have. We 500 00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:24,680 Speaker 2: have amazing customers, are really talented team, supportive shareholders that 501 00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:27,120 Speaker 2: are thoughtful, and they want us to continue to build 502 00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:30,920 Speaker 2: a consequential business. So we just keep marching on that path. 503 00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:35,320 Speaker 2: We you know, we're in a when it's kind of 504 00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:40,080 Speaker 2: interesting position because if you think about just from like 505 00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:44,200 Speaker 2: a subscription revenue standpoint, you think about the different generations 506 00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:49,959 Speaker 2: of technology, the only logistics tech software that's better than 507 00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:52,960 Speaker 2: our subscription revenue would be someone like from a generation 508 00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:58,280 Speaker 2: one technology. So these are the cards and trembles and 509 00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:00,640 Speaker 2: wise texts, but these are you know, twenty five to 510 00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:04,280 Speaker 2: thirty year old companies, and it started on prem and 511 00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:08,040 Speaker 2: certainly they've moved to the cloud and monitor made some 512 00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:12,080 Speaker 2: improvements and things, but architecturally how we're built is just 513 00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:16,280 Speaker 2: significantly different. And I think what we're able to do 514 00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:21,840 Speaker 2: is really embraces this new world that we're going into 515 00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:27,040 Speaker 2: with AI. And if a public investor wants access to 516 00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:31,040 Speaker 2: Gen two logistics tech, they really can't get it out 517 00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:33,920 Speaker 2: there because none of the Gen two logistics that companies 518 00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:37,120 Speaker 2: have been able to become large enough. Well, we're certainly 519 00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:42,720 Speaker 2: the largest without a doubt. And I think if we 520 00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:44,640 Speaker 2: can keep on this beat and this pace that we're 521 00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:46,840 Speaker 2: going on, we're going to be the ones that kind 522 00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:49,240 Speaker 2: of have that prize that IPO for that Gene two 523 00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:51,040 Speaker 2: I think there'll be a lot of support in the 524 00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:52,400 Speaker 2: market for that exposure. 525 00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:55,960 Speaker 1: I know you said the IPO is not a destination, 526 00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:57,920 Speaker 1: but do you have a time horizon when you want 527 00:30:57,960 --> 00:30:58,479 Speaker 1: to go public? 528 00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:01,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't don't really think of it tends in 529 00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:04,520 Speaker 2: goals like that. I think. I think the big thing 530 00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:07,200 Speaker 2: is is that there are advantages that you have from 531 00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:12,200 Speaker 2: an acquisition standpoint. It's an liquidity event for you know, 532 00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:14,880 Speaker 2: the cap table, both investors and employees, and so I 533 00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:16,800 Speaker 2: think those are really great things. It also brings some 534 00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:20,640 Speaker 2: new responsibilities uh to the table too that you know, 535 00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:23,520 Speaker 2: you can't be this this dismissive over so I think 536 00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:25,479 Speaker 2: we have this great ability that we can still be 537 00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:32,400 Speaker 2: risk on very innovative as a private company. And it's 538 00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:34,840 Speaker 2: difficult to know right now to also what scale you 539 00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:38,320 Speaker 2: need to be to have a successful IPO. It's probably 540 00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:42,560 Speaker 2: somewhere between five hundred million and a billion of subscription revenue. 541 00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:46,400 Speaker 2: And that's you know, that's a fairly high high bar. 542 00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:50,280 Speaker 2: If interest rates keep coming down, I do think we'll 543 00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:54,760 Speaker 2: see that that bar be lowered and we're I would say, 544 00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:56,840 Speaker 2: is we'll be ready if the opportunity is right for 545 00:31:56,920 --> 00:31:58,400 Speaker 2: this for the shareholders and the. 546 00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:02,120 Speaker 1: Customer and to get that subscription number up. Is it 547 00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:05,680 Speaker 1: more about getting your current customer a larger share of 548 00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:08,680 Speaker 1: their whilet spend or is it going down past the 549 00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:12,320 Speaker 1: thousand or two thousand largest shippers. 550 00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:15,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a combination of a few different growth growth factors. 551 00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:18,000 Speaker 2: You put out a great point on can we go 552 00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:23,360 Speaker 2: down scale? And what I found is when you go 553 00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:26,240 Speaker 2: down down and scale on the customer base is that 554 00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:30,720 Speaker 2: they tend not to have the sophistication or the resources 555 00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:36,200 Speaker 2: for the larger implementations. Supply chain software is fairly complex, 556 00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:39,360 Speaker 2: and although I think we make it simpler and faster 557 00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:42,520 Speaker 2: and faster time to value anyone out there, it still 558 00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:46,760 Speaker 2: has some friction points. So as we continue to invest 559 00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:50,360 Speaker 2: in the platform, I am optimistic that we could go 560 00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:55,760 Speaker 2: down stream now. I'm not sure that we would even 561 00:32:55,800 --> 00:33:00,000 Speaker 2: immediately though, if I had the platform capabilities today, because 562 00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:03,600 Speaker 2: the reality is is the larger companies you can just 563 00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:06,160 Speaker 2: look at if you think about like a social hierarchy, 564 00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:09,360 Speaker 2: larger companies are typically the ones applying the fines and 565 00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:13,120 Speaker 2: the penalties and things, so they're able to dictate more 566 00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:18,320 Speaker 2: on what standards are and things like that, which helps 567 00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:23,080 Speaker 2: helps for faster implementation. Faster AREI where the smaller companies 568 00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:28,560 Speaker 2: tend to be someone a customer has been very prescriptive 569 00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:31,360 Speaker 2: on what their expectations are and so it's more difficult 570 00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:36,600 Speaker 2: to impact change from that cohort of customers. But we 571 00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:39,680 Speaker 2: will continue to move upstream and downstream. If we think 572 00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:42,760 Speaker 2: that we are primarily focused on logistics right now, with 573 00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:47,120 Speaker 2: some strategic value that we bring to the larger supply 574 00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:50,560 Speaker 2: chain of organizations, we can go upstream and downstream of 575 00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:53,480 Speaker 2: logistics in these companies in supply chain. So that'll be 576 00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:58,400 Speaker 2: a growth factor. And we are global, but there are 577 00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:01,160 Speaker 2: some of these other markets we can continue to grow in. 578 00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:05,840 Speaker 2: You know where we have employees and offices in China. 579 00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:09,400 Speaker 2: I think we that market would probably have great potential 580 00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:11,840 Speaker 2: to grow. And if it's something we desire. 581 00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:16,000 Speaker 1: Got you and you know what's the one myth about 582 00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:19,680 Speaker 1: supply Chaine. You wish every executive understood. 583 00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:24,120 Speaker 2: Logistics is a physical problem. It's not an information problem. 584 00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:27,439 Speaker 2: As we sit here today, So moving a container from 585 00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:31,799 Speaker 2: Shanghai to La Long Beach takes the same amount of 586 00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:35,480 Speaker 2: time whether you're using cutting net technology or a spreadsheet. 587 00:34:36,680 --> 00:34:39,239 Speaker 2: And no question is do you find out three days 588 00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:42,080 Speaker 2: later when it misses the warehouse appointment, or does your 589 00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:45,960 Speaker 2: system predict it and calculate downstream impact and re route 590 00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:52,680 Speaker 2: before it affects production. And so decision speed beats transit 591 00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:55,680 Speaker 2: speed every time. So we see customers cut lead time 592 00:34:55,840 --> 00:35:00,279 Speaker 2: variability by double digits without changing a single truck out 593 00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:07,720 Speaker 2: Better information, better outcomes. So logistics, it's it's an information problem. 594 00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:12,560 Speaker 1: Got ya? And then you know what, you know, we 595 00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:14,640 Speaker 1: mentioned that you're the founder of the company. What is 596 00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:17,680 Speaker 1: the most difficult decision you've made since founding Project forty 597 00:35:17,719 --> 00:35:18,960 Speaker 1: four about the company? 598 00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:27,040 Speaker 2: At least, you know, it's probably let's think about the day, 599 00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:32,280 Speaker 2: it's probably about July or August of probably eighteen months 600 00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:36,640 Speaker 2: ago or so. We grew. We grew fast as a company, 601 00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:40,600 Speaker 2: and part of that was COVID tail winds, and part 602 00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:45,320 Speaker 2: of it was the platform, and you know, just demand 603 00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:49,400 Speaker 2: for change and digitalization in the market. And there's kind 604 00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:53,000 Speaker 2: of this conventional wisdom or ideas that were almost not 605 00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:56,759 Speaker 2: to be challenged, that were things like higher what people 606 00:35:56,800 --> 00:35:59,160 Speaker 2: would call a professional management team. I would call it 607 00:35:59,239 --> 00:36:02,840 Speaker 2: kind of more like a hired management team or something. 608 00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:09,480 Speaker 2: But and set the goals and then let them go 609 00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:11,640 Speaker 2: and execute on it, get it, get out of the way, 610 00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:16,200 Speaker 2: and that we're just so like widely accepted as the 611 00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:24,080 Speaker 2: way too to operate. And it didn't work very well 612 00:36:24,080 --> 00:36:27,080 Speaker 2: for us, and I tried a lot of variations. You 613 00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:29,680 Speaker 2: read books like The Trillion Dollar Coach or whatever it is, 614 00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:34,560 Speaker 2: and you try to put these pieces together and with 615 00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:38,680 Speaker 2: that basic first principle like, well, these quote unquote professional 616 00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:43,160 Speaker 2: managers can run it better than the founder. Of course, 617 00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:46,840 Speaker 2: that's that's it's true in some in some cases. But 618 00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:52,040 Speaker 2: there was an article the founder of Airbnb, and I 619 00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:55,960 Speaker 2: think it came out in July of that summer, and 620 00:36:56,000 --> 00:37:00,120 Speaker 2: he just said, there's a thing called founder's mode, and 621 00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:05,640 Speaker 2: that's really really important. And so for me going in 622 00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:10,400 Speaker 2: and challenging is kind of wisdom of like, we're going 623 00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:12,200 Speaker 2: to go back in the founder's mode. And so what 624 00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:14,560 Speaker 2: does that mean for us for founder's mode, Well, it 625 00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:18,000 Speaker 2: meant that taking out over one hundred million dollars of 626 00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:22,799 Speaker 2: annualized operating costs, bringing people back into the office, me 627 00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:26,440 Speaker 2: moving back to Chicago to be closer to where the 628 00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:31,439 Speaker 2: people are be being back to almost daily, calls back 629 00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:36,839 Speaker 2: into the product that we're building. Going from this kind 630 00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:40,479 Speaker 2: of idea that you know, the founder CEO should maybe 631 00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:42,760 Speaker 2: see customers a couple of times a quarter, to where 632 00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:46,160 Speaker 2: I meet with customers pretty much every day, and maybe 633 00:37:46,200 --> 00:37:48,719 Speaker 2: a lot of this stuff seems like common sense now, 634 00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:53,520 Speaker 2: like that was uh back then, it was like a 635 00:37:53,560 --> 00:37:56,080 Speaker 2: really hard decision to make. So you've got to you know, 636 00:37:56,600 --> 00:37:59,880 Speaker 2: terminate essentially your executive team, separate from whatever you want 637 00:37:59,920 --> 00:38:02,920 Speaker 2: to call it nowadays, and and then come in and 638 00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:05,759 Speaker 2: make all this change. I think for a long time, 639 00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:08,279 Speaker 2: the question is doesn't work, it won't work, And I 640 00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:10,440 Speaker 2: think we're the proof points that came out in Q 641 00:38:10,520 --> 00:38:12,840 Speaker 2: four of last year that said it did work. But 642 00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:15,360 Speaker 2: that was a tough decision because you have a you 643 00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:18,040 Speaker 2: have a multi billion dollar asset that you're putting at risk. 644 00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:23,040 Speaker 1: Right all right, So it's early twenty twenty six. You 645 00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:25,000 Speaker 1: have any New Year's resolutions you want to share. 646 00:38:25,160 --> 00:38:27,640 Speaker 2: I've never done New Year's resolutions. I just try to get, 647 00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:30,239 Speaker 2: you know, one percent better every day. I like to 648 00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:32,560 Speaker 2: compound and effect on. How about you do you. 649 00:38:32,440 --> 00:38:38,279 Speaker 1: Have any uh be more patient with my kids? I 650 00:38:39,239 --> 00:38:41,000 Speaker 1: probably broke that on the second, but. 651 00:38:43,239 --> 00:38:46,120 Speaker 2: I could say, yeah, that's that's I have a two 652 00:38:46,160 --> 00:38:47,560 Speaker 2: and a half year old and the four year old. 653 00:38:47,719 --> 00:38:52,120 Speaker 2: And yeah, patience is good. As my mother in law 654 00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:55,560 Speaker 2: tells me, he's very wise. She says, it's a lifetime journey. Patience. 655 00:38:55,960 --> 00:38:58,879 Speaker 1: It certainly is it, certainly is well. Jet I really 656 00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:01,000 Speaker 1: want to thank you for coming back onto the podcast. 657 00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:04,120 Speaker 1: I really appreciate your insights and enjoyed the conversation today. 658 00:39:04,600 --> 00:39:06,279 Speaker 2: Yeah. Thanks, thanks for having me on. It's great to 659 00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:06,719 Speaker 2: see you. 660 00:39:06,719 --> 00:39:08,799 Speaker 1: And I want to thank you for tuning in. If 661 00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:11,120 Speaker 1: you'd liked the episode, please subscribe and leave a review. 662 00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:13,360 Speaker 1: We've lined up a number of great guests for the podcast, 663 00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:17,799 Speaker 1: so please check back to your conversations with c spited executives, shippers, regulators, 664 00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:20,440 Speaker 1: and decision makers within the freight markets. Also, if you 665 00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:23,359 Speaker 1: want to learn more about the freight transportation markets, check 666 00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:26,239 Speaker 1: out our work on the Bloomberg Terminal at big and 667 00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:29,279 Speaker 1: on social media. This is Lee Glasgow signing off. Thanks 668 00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:39,240 Speaker 1: for talking transports with me and talk to you next week. Bye.