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Speaker 1: Cool Zone Media.

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Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome to Cool People Who did Cool stuff,

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Speaker 2: your weekly show that comes out twice a week. I

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Speaker 2: am your host, Margaret Hiljoy, and this is part two

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Speaker 2: of a two parter about the Russian partisans who are

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Speaker 2: fucking up Putin in Russia. And I like that, But

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Speaker 2: I also like both my producer Sophie Hi, Sophie Hey, Magpie,

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Speaker 2: and my guest Charles McBride.

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Speaker 1: Hi, how are you Hello, I'm thriving.

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Speaker 2: Everyone's rive.

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Speaker 1: That's not true. Most people are not thriving right now. Hi.

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Speaker 1: I just think we should say hi to the audience.

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Speaker 2: Hi, Hello, audience, Hello audience.

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Speaker 1: We never say hi to them?

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Speaker 2: Why not? I say hello and welcome to at the

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Speaker 2: top of every episode. But as like a team, Oh

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Speaker 2: that's true.

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Speaker 1: We're collectively breaking the fourth wall right now.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you are part of this conversation now. And if no,

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Speaker 2: that's not true. That's the danger of podcasts, think is true.

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Speaker 2: I listen to a lot of podcasts made by my friends,

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Speaker 2: and I have to fight so hard not to message

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Speaker 2: them about shit that in my head they just said,

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Speaker 2: but they actually said a month ago.

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Speaker 1: You know, I do that with James. I'd be like

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Speaker 1: great point you made yesterday. Yeah, exactly, And James is like,

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Speaker 1: I have no idea what you're talking about. I'm a podcaster.

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Speaker 2: Everything I just podcasted about left my brain the second

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Speaker 2: I was done. Yeah, I am an expert on things

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Speaker 2: while I'm recording, and then all that's left is vibes

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Speaker 2: if that and hunger. Anyway, what a good world we have.

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Speaker 2: I actually really like podcasts. I listen to them all

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Speaker 2: the time. But today it is part two. We're talking

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Speaker 2: about Ussian partisans. But in part one we talked about

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Speaker 2: some folks fighting directly in the Ukrainian military. We gave

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Speaker 2: context about the invasion of Ukraine, and we talked about

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Speaker 2: how at the very beginning of the invasion of Ukraine,

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Speaker 2: Belarusian podcasters, maybe probably most of them weren't podcasters statistically, honestly, actually, statistically,

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Speaker 2: probably a bunch of them are.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I was thinking ninety nine percent podcasters quit before

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Speaker 1: they start the real revolutionary movement.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think that these podcasters podcast on the side.

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Speaker 2: I think everyone involved in partisan struggle is secretly a podcaster,

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Speaker 2: not the other way around. You would think it. But

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Speaker 2: actually none of us have ever committed crimes. And now

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Speaker 2: we're going to talk about the Russians in a positive way,

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Speaker 2: because we're going to talk about ones who are going

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Speaker 2: to fuck up the Russian government, and we are going

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Speaker 2: to talk about Russel and Sadiki, who is the most

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Speaker 2: cyberpunk man in the world. That is my claim and

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Speaker 2: I'm going to hold to it because in twenty twenty three,

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Speaker 2: he used pre program drones to bomb an airfield, Like

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Speaker 2: he set them up ahead of time, hours ahead of time,

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Speaker 2: and then they went on their pre program GPS route

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Speaker 2: to go bomb in airfield once he was very safely away.

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Speaker 2: And then later he used remote detonated bombs to derail

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Speaker 2: a freight train that he like set up a camera

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Speaker 2: to watch so he could trigger it from far away,

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Speaker 2: but like live so he could make sure he was

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Speaker 2: hitting the right place.

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Speaker 1: You know, that's sick. I don't think anybody should do that.

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Speaker 1: By the way, I don't endorsee behavior in the United No,

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Speaker 1: only in Russia. Only in Russia.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, No, we're talking about people living in an authoritarian state.

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Speaker 2: This is a totally different thing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Like Russia like disappears people and like Sensor's journalists

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Speaker 1: and yeah sort of stuff, and everything's owned by like

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Speaker 1: a couple of people.

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Speaker 2: You're like not allowed to be gay there. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 2: totally different. So Russelan was caught almost by accident, and

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Speaker 2: so it could be all of his contemporaries or just

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Speaker 2: as cyberpunk as him. But he's the one who got caught,

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Speaker 2: and so we know all about his case. He was

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Speaker 2: born in nineteen eighty eight, and his name Russell and

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Speaker 2: Sadiki is somehow particularly Russian to me because it's multi ethnic.

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Speaker 2: Russelan is a common Slavic name for boys, although I

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Speaker 2: actually believe it comes from a Turkic thing. I fell

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Speaker 2: down a rabbit hole looking this up. I don't know

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Speaker 2: much about this, but Sidiki is an Arabic name, and

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Speaker 2: the Russian Empire absolutely included Muslim territories, and the area

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Speaker 2: is and has been multi ethnic for a very long time.

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Speaker 2: He wrote about his early childhood quote, I spent a

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Speaker 2: lot of time outside since there was nothing to do

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Speaker 2: at home. It was much more fun to run from

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Speaker 2: construction site guards, throw gas canisters into a fire and

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Speaker 2: wait for the explosion. Sneak into cellars and build hovels.

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Speaker 2: That's how to have a childhood.

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Speaker 1: I don't think you can really be an anarchist without

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Speaker 1: having built a hovel or two.

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Speaker 2: No, it's necessary. The hovel is where you find yourself.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, hovel maxing. When he was eleven or twelve, he

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Speaker 1: moved to Italy.

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Speaker 2: I've read both in different pieces, and he taught his

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Speaker 2: new Italian friends the kind of games he grew up

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Speaker 2: playing in Russia, like throw Molotov cocktails at a concrete

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Speaker 2: walls for fun. This guy was born to be a

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Speaker 2: cyberpunk terrorist for a good cause. As an adult, he

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Speaker 2: moved back to Russia in part because he missed his grandmother,

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Speaker 2: and I believe he lived with and cared for her.

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Speaker 2: He got a job as an electrician and was overall

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Speaker 2: reasonably happy. Once a year he would cross over into

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Speaker 2: Ukraine and go sneak into the Chernobyl exclusion zone for fun.

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Speaker 2: Because he had a very interesting idea of what constitutes fun.

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Speaker 2: He said, quote, I like to make my way through

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Speaker 2: difficult terrain, hide from patrols, and use military equipment.

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Speaker 1: That's phase two of hovelmaxing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, no, absolutely yeah. He got into gardening as

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Speaker 2: a political project, basically an attempt to bring back the

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Speaker 2: original concept of the Soviet but it was a politically

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Speaker 2: involved like collective farm thing, the self managed collective farm

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Speaker 2: versus the top down controlled kind like what these so

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Speaker 2: it's originally were, right, yeah, yeah, the thing that the

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Speaker 2: all power too is what Bolsheviks were, like just kidding.

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Speaker 1: About that one, Yeah, turns out yeah, for.

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Speaker 2: Anyone who doesn't know, we're talking about that Soviet it

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Speaker 2: was the word for the local control over a collectively

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Speaker 2: run area, and the idea of the Soviet Union was

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Speaker 2: that all of these local groups would come together as

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Speaker 2: equals to participate in creating a larger society.

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Speaker 1: And that was not what the Bolsheviks actually did, which

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Speaker 1: is why Rojeva and the theory and practice of genealogy

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Speaker 1: is closer to the original Soviet Union and the concept

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Speaker 1: behind that, yeah, than what the Bolsheviks turn it into.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, yeah, yeah, no, It's so funny that I was

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Speaker 2: like for a long time, I was like, what exactly

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Speaker 2: am I for? And then I just like read a

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Speaker 2: lot about the early Russian Revolution and I'm like, oh, yeah, no,

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Speaker 2: you just you set up regional councils and you like

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Speaker 2: start making decisions on a local level, and then you

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Speaker 2: federate up to higher levels to make decisions at a

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Speaker 2: larger level, and by doing that you can create a

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Speaker 2: society that is both socialistic and not a state. Great,

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Speaker 2: I wish people well many people have done it and

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Speaker 2: died trying to make it happen. But anyway along the way,

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Speaker 2: I don't know whether it was while he was working

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Speaker 2: for this Soviet or not, which I don't know if

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Speaker 2: they called it a Soviet, he became interested in anarchism,

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Speaker 2: but he has always rejected a dogmatic approach to any ideology.

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Speaker 2: He's like, gets very frustrated by like anarchists. We're very like,

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Speaker 2: this is the way that this thing goes. He's just like, no,

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Speaker 2: I just like he likes taking care of people and

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Speaker 2: he likes protecting the rights of people.

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Speaker 1: I don't get frustrated other anarchists. Do you get frustrated No?

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Speaker 2: I I know because if I get frustrated people, they're

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Speaker 2: not real anarchists. So the problem that solves itself. They're

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Speaker 2: just not Scotsmen. I was like, look, they're just not

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Speaker 2: actually a Scotsman, So it's fine. It took me a

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Speaker 2: long time to learn what the no true Scotsman fallacy is,

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Speaker 2: but it's that, Yeah, there's that meme that goes around

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Speaker 2: that I love. That's like, people who get frustrated by

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Speaker 2: the left and go right wing are just weak. Real

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Speaker 2: leftists get frustrated by the left every single day. Yes,

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Speaker 2: he knew that Russia was about to invade Ukraine into

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Speaker 2: twenty two because it ramped up its propaganda ahead of

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Speaker 2: the invasion. He started having these recurring dreams. He wrote,

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Speaker 2: there was a field full of dark green military equipment,

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Speaker 2: a gray sky, black trees without leaves. I was on

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Speaker 2: the sidelines, having something like a grenade launcher in my hands,

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Speaker 2: but some force held me back from aiming and shooting.

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Speaker 2: And I love when dreams are just direct symbolism about

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Speaker 2: a thing that's happening.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 2: He felt impotent despite all of this thing happening, and

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Speaker 2: he felt like he was sidelined, but he knew that

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Speaker 2: he actually had some power. When Russia invaded Ukraine, he

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Speaker 2: felt powerless. He wrote a friend who has lived in

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Speaker 2: Ukraine who has since died in the fighting, and basically

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Speaker 2: he wrote his friend and was like, I think I'm

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Speaker 2: going to start a bombing campaign against Russia. And I

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Speaker 2: think his friend was like, yeah, that makes sense because

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Speaker 2: he knew a lot about bomb is. Because you're going

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Speaker 2: to be shocked to know when I described this kid,

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Speaker 2: he started downloading bomb making manuals from the internet when

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Speaker 2: he was eighteen, and he played with drones for fun.

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Speaker 2: So this friend in Ukraine put him in touch with

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Speaker 2: the Ukrainian Security Force folks, and he went to Latvia

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Speaker 2: to prove that he knew what he was doing. And

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Speaker 2: he wasn't paid and no one gave him orders. This

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Speaker 2: is all self directed. They helped him acquire equipment or

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Speaker 2: they maybe offered to And this part's a little tricky.

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Speaker 2: He insists that he did not receive training from the

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Speaker 2: Ukrainian forces. That's part of his legal defense is that

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Speaker 2: he's like, no, I am not acting on the orders

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Speaker 2: of a foreign government, you know. And I actually I

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Speaker 2: believe him that he wasn't taking orders, But you know whatever,

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Speaker 2: I'm perfectly willing to believe about all the rest too.

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Speaker 2: His first action didn't really work out, the GPS drone

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Speaker 2: bomb action, but he went about it intelligently. He pre

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Speaker 2: programmed four drones with a route by GPS and set

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Speaker 2: them up for a delayed launch towards military airfield. He

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Speaker 2: rode his bike out to the field because it's harder

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Speaker 2: to track a bike oh, actually he might not how

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Speaker 2: a car, but whatever, he rode a bike, and the

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Speaker 2: whole time he's biking, he's like, oh, man, I hope

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Speaker 2: these pressure sensitive bombs in my backpack don't go off.

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Speaker 2: That would be really sad. I don't want that they

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Speaker 2: didn't go off. And he picked a route without any

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Speaker 2: public surveillance cameras. He set up the drones, and then

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Speaker 2: he saw a fox running around the field and was like, oh,

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Speaker 2: it was a fox running around the field, and then

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Speaker 2: he left. Only one of the drones actually made it

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Speaker 2: into the air, into the target, and it blew up

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Speaker 2: several hundred feet away from the nearest aircraft. This was

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Speaker 2: not a particularly successful strike. As best as he can tell,

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Speaker 2: the fox that he's seen running around had probably turned

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Speaker 2: the other ones over so that they didn't take off.

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Speaker 2: I like to imagine the fox arrives this story. I

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Speaker 2: even believe it because there's no evidence of the area

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Speaker 2: being blown up. Whatever, he wasn't even the first person

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Speaker 2: to attack that particular military airfield with a drone strike.

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Speaker 2: From within Russia. A fuel tanker had been bombed about

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Speaker 2: six months earlier by a drone and killed three Russian soldiers,

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Speaker 2: and I don't know that whoever attacked it previously was

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Speaker 2: ever caught. But after his failed attack, he gets paranoid

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Speaker 2: for understandable reasons, and he lays low. The authorities didn't

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Speaker 2: have a single lead on him. Then his grandmother died

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Speaker 2: and he was feeling desperate and depressed. Later he says

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Speaker 2: that that is though exactly the wrong mood to be

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Speaker 2: in to decide to attack, but he was feeling desperate

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Speaker 2: and depressed, so he decided to attack.

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Speaker 1: He picked a.

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Speaker 2: Railroad line that he knew only moved freight, not passenger trains,

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Speaker 2: and he decided to derail a train. There had been

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Speaker 2: more than one hundred attacks on the rail infrastructure within

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Speaker 2: Russia already, and I'll get to that shortly to quote

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Speaker 2: him about the attack. This sabotage cost me less than

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Speaker 2: ten thousand rubles about one hundred and thirty dollars in

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Speaker 2: a few days. I made two powerful bombs and a

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Speaker 2: video transmitter with a self destruct mechanism. I devised my

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Speaker 2: escape route. I had a night division device with me,

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Speaker 2: and in my pockets were bags of pepper to set

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Speaker 2: the dogs off my track. I rode my bike to

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Speaker 2: the site at midnight, set the charges under the tracks,

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Speaker 2: fixed the camera on a tree so that it recorded

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Speaker 2: the moment of detonation and scattered pepper in the sites

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Speaker 2: I was hiding out in. And so the camera is

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Speaker 2: there not just to record the moment of the attack,

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Speaker 2: but to time the explosion to make extra sure that

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Speaker 2: it's not a passenger train. He's like watching, and he's like,

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Speaker 2: all right, this is when I'm going to go. And

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Speaker 2: he set two charges six meters apart, which is what

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Speaker 2: he says is the way to make sure that you

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Speaker 2: derail a train, or rather it's what a military investigator

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Speaker 2: from the Russian whatever they call the KGB now said,

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Speaker 2: And each was about five hundred grams of TNT rustlin.

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Speaker 2: Hid in the woods, he watched for a train, he

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Speaker 2: made sure it was a passenger train, and he set

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Speaker 2: off the charges. He derailed nineteen train cars, causing about

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Speaker 2: three hundred and fifty thousand dollars in damages to the

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Speaker 2: government owned railroad. And to go back to quoting him.

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Speaker 2: After fleeing the scene, I hid my bike, shoes and

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Speaker 2: the clothes I was wearing in the woods ten kilometers

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Speaker 2: from the blast site. I returned home through another path

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Speaker 2: without my bike, and in a change of clothes, but

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Speaker 2: counter terrorism units were on the scene right away. This

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Speaker 2: part is fucking movie shit. They show up and there's

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Speaker 2: a black sock hanging from the tree and they're like,

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Speaker 2: what's this black sock? And it's a video camera. And

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Speaker 2: then it's like, while they're in the process of trying

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Speaker 2: to like make sure that the camera doesn't self destruct,

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Speaker 2: this camera self destructs.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 2: They find a bicycle tire tread, and they find a

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Speaker 2: place where someone had clearly been holed up in the woods.

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Speaker 2: They were like, oh, the leaves are flattened here, this

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Speaker 2: is where someone was hiding out and this is probably

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Speaker 2: where he'd been hiding to watch the camera. The investigators

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Speaker 2: then found local cops saying they'd seen a bicyclist, but

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Speaker 2: they didn't remember a face or the make of a bike.

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Speaker 2: A couple cameras caught him leaving the area on bike

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Speaker 2: about five hours after the explosion, wearing camouflage, and they

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Speaker 2: are not good clear photos or videos or anything. They're

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Speaker 2: just quick surveillance glimpses. There's no face in them. And

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Speaker 2: they didn't find any forensic evidence at the scene, no DNA, nothing,

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Speaker 2: so they started investigating all the military and electronics stores.

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Speaker 2: No one remembered selling anything like what was used in

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Speaker 2: the attack. They tried investigating anyone who'd rented apartments in

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Speaker 2: the area nearby, but they turned up nothing. So we

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Speaker 2: gotta find this guy. Let's start harassing all the Ukrainians

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Speaker 2: who live in the area. And so they start going

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Speaker 2: around gathering saliva and blood from the Ukrainians who live

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Speaker 2: in the area to test their DNA, even though they

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Speaker 2: don't have any DNA evidence from the scene. I guess,

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Speaker 2: just like in case any DNA evidence shows up, just.

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Speaker 1: To back up saliva and DNA.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, exactly, Like, honestly, that's what they do is

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Speaker 2: they really want to have DNA. Every state wants DNA

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Speaker 2: databases of everyone who's ever lived. They also decided to

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Speaker 2: investigate the local Is it Wagner or Wagner, the fucking

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Speaker 2: that right wing It's Wagner, Yeah, the Wagner group. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: the far right Russian mercenary group that had recently mute need.

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Speaker 2: They're like, oh, maybe our own Nazi forces are the

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Speaker 2: ones who did that's kind of funny.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: No, They're like, we're gonna fuck with everybody. They were persistent. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: Eventually they found a shopkeeper a couple kilometers away who'd

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Speaker 2: said she'd seen somebody who wasn't local. It's like a

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Speaker 2: rural area where they like, know who's not local, you know,

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Speaker 2: and someone wearing baggy camouflage clothing like several sizes too big.

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Speaker 2: And they got a really vague composite sketch. There's like

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Speaker 2: a couple of them. I looked at them. It's just

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Speaker 2: like a guy. They're like, hey, there's a guy. A guy.

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Speaker 1: Did it? Just a guy?

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Speaker 2: It just looks like Cassie and and or yeah, yeah, exactly, no,

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Speaker 2: not nearly. Well, the composite sketch is not of an

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Speaker 2: attractive man. Rustling is perfectly attractive. They get this vague

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Speaker 2: composite sketch and they just start harassing everyone in the

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Speaker 2: area who looked anything like this sketch. This actually is

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Speaker 2: some fucking and or shit. That's what this is.

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Speaker 1: Like.

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Speaker 2: This whole thing is like, this is the stormtroopers going around.

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Speaker 1: Have you seen this man? You know?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And they're just setting up this like wild dragnet

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Speaker 2: for this guy. But you know, they didn't catch in

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Speaker 2: their dragnet because too slippery to be caught by the

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Speaker 2: people who came after the KGB is the products and

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Speaker 2: services that support the show. Only you can catch these deals.

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Speaker 2: Eh eh, wow, wow.

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Speaker 1: Sae, you would ever told you you're great at this? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you.

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Speaker 2: That's why I get paid the medium bucks and rebec

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Speaker 2: they dragged him down the road by his handcuffs, and

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Speaker 2: they tortured a confession out of him, and then they

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Speaker 2: tortured him after he confessed. Also, and right before he confessed,

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Speaker 2: a man in civilian clothes told him that if he

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Speaker 2: didn't confess, they were going to take him out of town,

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Speaker 2: stage an escape attempt, and then kill him.

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Speaker 1: Do they still have to do that in Russia?

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Speaker 2: Like?

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Speaker 1: Do they have to stage an escape attempt? I feel

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Speaker 1: like they kind of just get to do what they want.

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Speaker 2: Honestly, a lot about what he's saying here, there is

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Speaker 2: still on some level the rule of law there. On

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Speaker 2: some level they do what they want, but it's not

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Speaker 2: as total like he talks about how he's like, I

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Speaker 2: wish I had known my rights. I wish i'd known

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Speaker 2: that I didn't have to go with them to the station.

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Speaker 2: And I'm like, oh, that's news to me. I didn't

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Speaker 2: have to go them to the station, you know, they

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Speaker 2: do torture the shit out of people, but they're not

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Speaker 2: supposed to, you know. Yeah, they're still kind of being like, nah,

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Speaker 2: we don't do that, you know, and then they're still

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Speaker 2: like setting it up rather than just ex judicially murdering people.

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Speaker 2: And like all of this stuff that he said about

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Speaker 2: his OPSEC and like what did and didn't work he

346
00:18:22,280 --> 00:18:25,320
Speaker 2: wrote in jail and like it got out and he

347
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Speaker 2: is communicating via a letter and I think email with people.

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Speaker 2: So I think it's like also kind of worth understanding

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Speaker 2: that when we're painting Russia as this like pretty evil

350
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Speaker 2: despotic government, things are never quite as black and white

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Speaker 2: as people like think. And I think that's worth understanding

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Speaker 2: because like people are like maybe waiting for like ah well,

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Speaker 2: eventually there's going to be like literally no freedoms, you know,

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Speaker 2: and you're like, you don't usually reach that.

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Speaker 1: No. Tyranny requires constant effort, you know. It's it's the

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Speaker 1: thing that even the Soviet Union, there are all these

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Speaker 1: ways of resisting even with a near perfect you know,

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Speaker 1: to mialitarian police state.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and he summed up his OPSEC mistakes like literally

360
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Speaker 2: it's just like in one of his statements he's like,

361
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Speaker 2: this is why he did wrong. So he's like, like,

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Speaker 2: part of the reason we know all about this stuff

363
00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:15,320
Speaker 2: and like how the investigation went is that, like people

364
00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:20,040
Speaker 2: really want to explain how people did stuff and what

365
00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:23,680
Speaker 2: worked and what didn't. He sums up his op seck

366
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Speaker 2: his operational security mistakes like this. He should have been

367
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Speaker 2: more careful when he was scouting. When he was scouted

368
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Speaker 2: the location he actually was seen by some locals, like

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Speaker 2: the person mind the counter, I think, for example, So

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Speaker 2: he should have picked a different area. But he was

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Speaker 2: feeling rushed and he knew that snow was coming soon,

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Speaker 2: and he really wanted to do the attack, so he

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Speaker 2: did it anyway. He also should have had a better

374
00:19:46,840 --> 00:19:50,399
Speaker 2: cover story and practiced his cover story. He should have

375
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Speaker 2: moved home only after dark and not walked the last

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Speaker 2: kilometer home on regular paths. He should have kept his

377
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Speaker 2: face covered the whole way home. He should have covered

378
00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:04,439
Speaker 2: his digital footprints. He should have had a security camera

379
00:20:04,520 --> 00:20:06,680
Speaker 2: set up outside his door so that he could have

380
00:20:06,760 --> 00:20:09,760
Speaker 2: looked outside and seen that the police were outside and

381
00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:14,320
Speaker 2: investigating people outside his apartment building. And he should have

382
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Speaker 2: insisted on a warrant instead of coming voluntarily to the station.

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Speaker 1: I feel like maybe like he could taken a tip

384
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Speaker 1: from those Turtle Island people who were just feeding all

385
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Speaker 1: their tidy op sec information straight to the FBI putting

386
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Speaker 1: the stone in the boot to change his gait. Yeah, totally.

387
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Speaker 2: And he did the whole thing alone, right, which is

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Speaker 2: like the biggest way that people get caught is you know.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

390
00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:42,880
Speaker 2: But also in order to accomplish certain things, you need

391
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Speaker 2: to work in large groups, you know. And like as

392
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Speaker 2: much as I'm like, ah, this is the way you

393
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Speaker 2: do this thing and an authoritarian state, there's also the

394
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Speaker 2: fact that like mass actions, when they're possible, are substantially

395
00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:58,960
Speaker 2: more effective, yeah, and also substantially more democratic and like

396
00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:01,960
Speaker 2: involve more people and making the country and the world better. Right,

397
00:21:02,119 --> 00:21:03,880
Speaker 2: There's like a reason that a lot of people went

398
00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:06,919
Speaker 2: and fought in the military in Ukraine against Russia. You know,

399
00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:09,199
Speaker 2: I'm not trying to specifically say, like this is the

400
00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:11,600
Speaker 2: only way that people can act, but these are the

401
00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:14,800
Speaker 2: people that I'm talking about, you know. This week on

402
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Speaker 2: May twenty third, twenty twenty five, he was sentenced to

403
00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:21,720
Speaker 2: twenty nine years in a high security penal colony, and

404
00:21:21,800 --> 00:21:25,879
Speaker 2: during his sentencing he said, my aim was the Russian

405
00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:29,359
Speaker 2: military equipment and the logistical chains used to transport it

406
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Speaker 2: and fuel. I wanted to complicate combat operations against Ukraine.

407
00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:37,440
Speaker 2: I have no ill will towards the people of Russia.

408
00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:41,720
Speaker 2: I do have disagreements over events since twenty fourteen, but

409
00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:45,240
Speaker 2: that's no reason to hate anyone. When peaceful means to

410
00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:50,119
Speaker 2: influence government decisions are unavailable and dissent is criminalized, some

411
00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:54,920
Speaker 2: people will emigrate while others will act. And I actually

412
00:21:54,960 --> 00:21:56,960
Speaker 2: forgot that he makes my point better than I did

413
00:21:57,560 --> 00:21:59,159
Speaker 2: just a second ago when I went off script to

414
00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:03,440
Speaker 2: talk about it, like that's the like He's like, yeah,

415
00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:07,600
Speaker 2: descent has been criminalized, it's this or leave the country.

416
00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:09,800
Speaker 1: That is an interesting I don't know if it's a

417
00:22:09,880 --> 00:22:12,640
Speaker 1: dig necessarily, but more of an insight into kind of

418
00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:17,119
Speaker 1: what everyone says about the Russian opposition, particularly the Russian liberals,

419
00:22:17,119 --> 00:22:19,440
Speaker 1: is that they're just gone, like they other were imprisoned,

420
00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:22,280
Speaker 1: killed or just left, you know, but enough of them

421
00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:26,400
Speaker 1: left before they kind of were gonna get imprisoned and killed. Yeah,

422
00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:30,240
Speaker 1: and you basically have just had two decades of brain

423
00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:32,640
Speaker 1: drain on this country where everyone who gave a shit

424
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Speaker 1: is gone.

425
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Speaker 2: No, totally, So many people died, so many people are

426
00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:40,800
Speaker 2: in jail, so many people had to flee. Yeah, and

427
00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:43,080
Speaker 2: so maybe we're in jail now, just even from like

428
00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:45,120
Speaker 2: we're gonna talk about some of the minorship. But it's

429
00:22:45,119 --> 00:22:48,480
Speaker 2: like people are getting years in prison for graffiti. Yeah,

430
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Speaker 2: I mean, you can get years in prison in the

431
00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:54,400
Speaker 2: US for graffiti, but that's because it damages property, not because.

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Speaker 1: Of what it says politically.

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00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:58,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, it is funny like someone else want

434
00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:00,840
Speaker 2: to talk about later in the script, but someone else

435
00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:03,040
Speaker 2: who Molotov or recruitment center gets three and a half

436
00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:06,119
Speaker 2: years in prison, And I was like, oh, that's like

437
00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:09,360
Speaker 2: way less than I would have expected. Yeah, and that's

438
00:23:09,359 --> 00:23:14,480
Speaker 2: because I'm coming from America, where like this man would

439
00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:16,320
Speaker 2: be in prison for life for what it.

440
00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:19,080
Speaker 1: Is if you do anything with a Molotov cocktail. It's

441
00:23:19,119 --> 00:23:21,600
Speaker 1: like you're now talking about decades. Yeah, yeah, Yeah. There

442
00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:25,680
Speaker 1: is a cultural phenomena in Russia where people act out

443
00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:30,919
Speaker 1: and they act out in ways that are criminal, and

444
00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:34,040
Speaker 1: they do this often enough throughout Russian history that it's

445
00:23:34,119 --> 00:23:37,720
Speaker 1: kind of just taken for granted. Yeah, all right, huh,

446
00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:39,880
Speaker 1: so like it doesn't the primary they're like, oh, yeah,

447
00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:42,440
Speaker 1: well I mean, you know, boys will be boys. Dude,

448
00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:46,720
Speaker 1: happened to derail a Russian military convoy twenty nine years

449
00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:47,200
Speaker 1: is enough?

450
00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:51,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, And he closed a sentencing with a quote from

451
00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:54,600
Speaker 2: the Ukrainian anarchist and veteran of the pod Nester Makno.

452
00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:57,879
Speaker 2: I did a whole series of episodes about Ukrainian anarchism

453
00:23:58,119 --> 00:24:01,600
Speaker 2: during the Russian Civil War, and you know makno is

454
00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:04,439
Speaker 2: a major figure in that. And the quote that he

455
00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:07,240
Speaker 2: used is though now they lay us in the ground,

456
00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:10,400
Speaker 2: our truth will not be swept away. It will arise

457
00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:13,960
Speaker 2: when time comes round and win. I do believe that day.

458
00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:17,040
Speaker 2: Is not a great translation. It's not a machine translation,

459
00:24:17,119 --> 00:24:20,040
Speaker 2: but it's just you know. And he assumes that his

460
00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:24,320
Speaker 2: only hope is a prisoner exchange pro Russian. Ukrainians are

461
00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:27,440
Speaker 2: in jail in Ukraine. Russia is down for prisoner exchange,

462
00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:30,000
Speaker 2: but Russia won't do it. If you want to send

463
00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:32,520
Speaker 2: him letters, you can use online translators to translate your

464
00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:35,320
Speaker 2: letter into Russian, and there's information about how to write

465
00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:37,040
Speaker 2: him at the end of the article in the show

466
00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:39,919
Speaker 2: notes from Anarchistnews dot org, or you can just google

467
00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:43,720
Speaker 2: his name Rustlin' Sadiki, which is r u s l

468
00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:49,159
Speaker 2: a n si d d iqi at least as is

469
00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:50,320
Speaker 2: usually transliterated.

470
00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:52,600
Speaker 1: Sadiki means frid, doesn't it.

471
00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:55,320
Speaker 2: I don't know what it means. I looked it up

472
00:24:55,359 --> 00:24:57,359
Speaker 2: as an Arabic last name, but yeah, that's as far

473
00:24:57,400 --> 00:24:57,800
Speaker 2: as I got.

474
00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:00,960
Speaker 1: I think it means friend in Arabic speak, friend and

475
00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:03,560
Speaker 1: inter you know.

476
00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:05,800
Speaker 2: And he's the thing I like about him. He's just

477
00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:09,200
Speaker 2: this like quiet kid who wants to take care of

478
00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:11,040
Speaker 2: his grandma and like kind of be a little bit

479
00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:12,959
Speaker 2: of a hool again on his own time. But like,

480
00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:15,919
Speaker 2: you know, he's just like an electrician and he's just like,

481
00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:17,800
Speaker 2: I'm just doing my thing. I want to farm, I

482
00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:20,240
Speaker 2: want to make the world a better place. Doesn't really

483
00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:23,280
Speaker 2: have much time for dogmatic politics, like and then he's

484
00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:27,520
Speaker 2: just like, well, my country's doing this horrible thing. I

485
00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:32,120
Speaker 2: either need to flee the country or fight here. And

486
00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:35,359
Speaker 2: you know, when he started, his grandma lived there, he'd

487
00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:37,200
Speaker 2: already left her once, didn't want to do it again.

488
00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:41,400
Speaker 1: I think it really is that simple for like most

489
00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:45,480
Speaker 1: people who are actually going to do anything for anything,

490
00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:49,600
Speaker 1: like they haven't read theory or maybe they have, but

491
00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:53,320
Speaker 1: like he probably didn't have an anarchist podcast in Russian. Yeah,

492
00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:57,280
Speaker 1: you know, he was just some guy, and like all

493
00:25:57,320 --> 00:26:00,199
Speaker 1: the great some guys of history, was just like, I

494
00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:02,679
Speaker 1: love my grandma, I love farming, I love being electrician.

495
00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:09,080
Speaker 1: I'm going to become a cyberpunk superhero. Yeah.

496
00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:10,960
Speaker 2: So he's the guy that I currently have pegged is

497
00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:14,720
Speaker 2: the most cyberpunk person alive. Just the fact that the

498
00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:17,879
Speaker 2: drones were set up pre programmed with GPS and that

499
00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:20,200
Speaker 2: he's just programming all this shit himself. He's like, oh,

500
00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:22,440
Speaker 2: I made a video transmitter because I wanted to see

501
00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:24,680
Speaker 2: what I was doing. You're like, oh, yeah, that thing

502
00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:27,199
Speaker 2: that normal people do all the time, you know.

503
00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:30,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, my friend is a drone programmer in one of

504
00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:33,320
Speaker 1: those like big drone factories that they now have. Because

505
00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:36,680
Speaker 1: it's just the horrific new face of warfare. Yeah huh.

506
00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:41,879
Speaker 1: And it is genuinely crazy, the kind of disruptive knowledge

507
00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:45,200
Speaker 1: that is currently being taught to like nineteen year old

508
00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:49,960
Speaker 1: Ukrainians in these massive warehouses and they're just texting me stuff.

509
00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:55,119
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, this imperial boomerang is gonna hit home soon, brouh.

510
00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:59,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, hopefully Ukraine will win and then all the anarchists

511
00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:01,920
Speaker 2: and I'm and be like, actual that mackno thing, let's

512
00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:02,320
Speaker 2: just do that.

513
00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:04,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe so, and then they'll.

514
00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:05,080
Speaker 2: Be able to do it peacefully. And I don't know

515
00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:08,080
Speaker 2: what you're talking about. Yeah, but if you want to

516
00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:11,560
Speaker 2: be a cyberpunk, you could become a cyberpunk with our

517
00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:15,840
Speaker 2: sponsor drone programming for peaceful and only peaceful means.

518
00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:17,320
Speaker 1: And I don't know.

519
00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:21,000
Speaker 2: This wasn't my best, but I still have to do it.

520
00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:23,480
Speaker 2: I still have to commit. So it's the ads now

521
00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:32,159
Speaker 2: and rebec So I picked him because I found his

522
00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:35,080
Speaker 2: story really moving, and there was also a fair amount

523
00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:37,040
Speaker 2: of information available in English because he was caught and

524
00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:39,080
Speaker 2: then he was like, here's exactly how I got caught,

525
00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:41,240
Speaker 2: and here's everything that happened. And then there's other articles

526
00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:42,560
Speaker 2: that are from the other point of view, or like

527
00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:44,040
Speaker 2: this is how we caught him, this is exactly how

528
00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:47,600
Speaker 2: it went. But within the first year and a half

529
00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:51,400
Speaker 2: of the war, one human rights group, Solidarity Zone had

530
00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:55,000
Speaker 2: counted one hundred and eleven acts of sabotage against railroads

531
00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:55,680
Speaker 2: in Russia.

532
00:27:56,119 --> 00:27:57,640
Speaker 1: Wow, that's crazy.

533
00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:01,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's easier to information about attacks from the start

534
00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:04,960
Speaker 2: of the war. And I am uncertain if it's because

535
00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:08,400
Speaker 2: attacks have slowed down if the news gets translated less

536
00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:11,080
Speaker 2: because like the Western attention span is so short.

537
00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:12,119
Speaker 1: I don't know.

538
00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:14,960
Speaker 2: But by July twenty twenty two, so only a couple

539
00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:19,480
Speaker 2: months of war, twenty different recruitment centers in Russia were molotovd.

540
00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:24,480
Speaker 2: By November there were seventy attacks against recruitment centers. And

541
00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:26,359
Speaker 2: then is the part I already covered. But in this

542
00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:28,840
Speaker 2: wild authoritarian country in the middle of the war, a

543
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:31,600
Speaker 2: forty eight year old art teacher molotov recruitment center and

544
00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:33,840
Speaker 2: only got three point five years. And then it's actually

545
00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:35,600
Speaker 2: really confusing. I almost fell down this rabbit hole, and

546
00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:37,080
Speaker 2: I decided to pull back at the very end. If

547
00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:38,880
Speaker 2: you google this man's name, which I didn't actually remember

548
00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:41,400
Speaker 2: to put into the script this time, he got pardoned

549
00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:46,160
Speaker 2: for like fraud, but he was like a small town's

550
00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:49,480
Speaker 2: art teacher, and he got arrested for fraud and then

551
00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:51,280
Speaker 2: he got pardoned. And then that was like in like

552
00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:55,400
Speaker 2: twenty twelve or something, So I don't know. There might

553
00:28:55,440 --> 00:28:56,440
Speaker 2: be more to this man.

554
00:28:56,640 --> 00:28:57,080
Speaker 1: I don't know.

555
00:28:57,120 --> 00:28:57,960
Speaker 2: He only gets three.

556
00:28:57,800 --> 00:28:59,400
Speaker 1: Point five years.

557
00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:03,560
Speaker 2: Other folks are getting like fifteen years or so.

558
00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:05,400
Speaker 1: Maybe he has some other resentments.

559
00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:08,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, it's completely pop. But oh I did write

560
00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:10,880
Speaker 2: his name down. I'm very smart. His name is Ilia Farber.

561
00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:13,840
Speaker 2: And when he was asked why he did it, he said,

562
00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:16,800
Speaker 2: I wanted to find out what I was capable of.

563
00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:20,320
Speaker 2: Am I capable of doing this? And I love that

564
00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:22,600
Speaker 2: for someone like in their mid forties, just being like

565
00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:24,479
Speaker 2: I want to see what I'm made of.

566
00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:28,320
Speaker 1: That's like a real motivate, like a motivating question for

567
00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:30,960
Speaker 1: like types of guy, you know, like, yeah, who am I?

568
00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:33,520
Speaker 2: When it comes down, It's something that I talked about.

569
00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:35,719
Speaker 2: I did a bunch of episodes when I went up

570
00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:38,320
Speaker 2: to go with James Stout to Minneapolis a couple of

571
00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:41,520
Speaker 2: weeks ago, a month ago or something. And one of

572
00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:43,440
Speaker 2: the reasons I went up there was talking to a

573
00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:46,480
Speaker 2: friend of a friend who lives there, who was just like,

574
00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:49,960
Speaker 2: who's out there doing like really hard shit tracking ice

575
00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:53,640
Speaker 2: and doing all this like kind of impressive, badass shit

576
00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:57,160
Speaker 2: and isn't a particularly political person, just as like a

577
00:29:57,200 --> 00:30:00,760
Speaker 2: young queer person. And when I was talking to them

578
00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:03,880
Speaker 2: about it, they were like, well, I always told myself

579
00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:05,840
Speaker 2: that I would be someone who does things if the

580
00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:08,719
Speaker 2: Nazis takeover, you know. I don't remember exactly how they

581
00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:10,520
Speaker 2: phrased it, but there's something to that effect. You're like,

582
00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:13,920
Speaker 2: you tell yourself you are someone who acts, And in

583
00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:16,440
Speaker 2: Minneapolis people are now able to say, like.

584
00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:19,120
Speaker 1: That's the type of person I would have been in

585
00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:22,680
Speaker 1: nineteen thirty nine. Yeaheah. People have asked me before things

586
00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:24,040
Speaker 1: on why do you go to Ukraine? Like why are

587
00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:26,640
Speaker 1: you doing documentary in palace science or stuff? And my

588
00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:28,680
Speaker 1: honest answer to them is kind of just like, well, honestly,

589
00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:31,440
Speaker 1: like my undergraduate degree isn't history, Yeah, and I focus

590
00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:33,720
Speaker 1: a lot on World War Two. My senior thesis was

591
00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:36,000
Speaker 1: on the Battle of Britain and like the failure of

592
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:40,480
Speaker 1: the Nazi high command, and you can't, in my opinion,

593
00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:44,200
Speaker 1: study that. And yeah, I mean I'm a neurodivergent person too.

594
00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:48,520
Speaker 1: There's never last there. But like, you can't just study

595
00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:52,920
Speaker 1: that period of history without asking it's a question. I

596
00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:56,560
Speaker 1: wonder what kind of person I would have been during time? Shit,

597
00:30:56,760 --> 00:30:58,920
Speaker 1: Like am I one of the good guys or one

598
00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:02,640
Speaker 1: of the baddies? I think, like the statistics about collaboration

599
00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:06,760
Speaker 1: and accommodation and resistance in France are just so revealing

600
00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:09,960
Speaker 1: to me, Like one percent of the French population actively

601
00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:15,120
Speaker 1: collaborating with the Nazis, one percent actively resisting, ninety eight

602
00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:19,200
Speaker 1: percent thereabouts were just accommodating the regime, which meant that

603
00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:23,200
Speaker 1: in reality, ninety nine percent where they collaborating. Yeah, and

604
00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:26,000
Speaker 1: that's any point. At any point, if they had been

605
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:28,520
Speaker 1: able to add just five six seven percent more, which

606
00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:30,080
Speaker 1: is what they eventually did at the end of the war,

607
00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:32,600
Speaker 1: they could have easily thrown off the Nazis. Yeah, it

608
00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:35,720
Speaker 1: would have been impossible to manage a country that big, but

609
00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:38,600
Speaker 1: they just and we've seen that now, you know. But

610
00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:41,120
Speaker 1: I've given the same answer for some of the stuff

611
00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:43,160
Speaker 1: I've done. It's kind of, you know, I want to

612
00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:46,400
Speaker 1: see sort of what person I would have been back then. Yeah,

613
00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:49,760
Speaker 1: when I went to Ukraine, people will talk about like, oh,

614
00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:51,920
Speaker 1: do you see dangerous stuff, And I'm like, yeah, to

615
00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:54,600
Speaker 1: a cent, But like I've hidden a bathtub from an

616
00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:57,720
Speaker 1: artillery barrage and stuff like that. I think the only

617
00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:00,320
Speaker 1: courageous thing I ever did in Ukraine was making that

618
00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:03,120
Speaker 1: initial decision to ride a train across the border from Poland,

619
00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:07,200
Speaker 1: and I was going from safety into safety. Like Leviv

620
00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:09,200
Speaker 1: was one of the safest places in Ukraine. It takes

621
00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:11,800
Speaker 1: the Russian cruise missiles like thirty five minutes once they're

622
00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:16,640
Speaker 1: up to even reach that part of the country. But psychologically,

623
00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:18,880
Speaker 1: I was crossing a rubicon where it was like I

624
00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:21,840
Speaker 1: am now the type of guy who like runs towards

625
00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:24,760
Speaker 1: danger instead of away from it. That's psychologically interesting.

626
00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:27,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've had moments like that in my life where

627
00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:30,440
Speaker 2: I'm like, you know, I tell myself what I will be,

628
00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:33,440
Speaker 2: and then some of the worst things I've ever happened

629
00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:35,240
Speaker 2: to me I'm gonna talk about on air have happened

630
00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:38,360
Speaker 2: as a result of me running towards danger, and I'm

631
00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:43,160
Speaker 2: still like grateful that. I'm like, Okay, I know this

632
00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:48,160
Speaker 2: thing about myself. You know, the Russian government really wants

633
00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:50,840
Speaker 2: to pretend like none of the resistance is happening. So

634
00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:52,880
Speaker 2: you're talking about like, you know, like the Russian opposition

635
00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:54,920
Speaker 2: gets a bad name, and like part of it is

636
00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:59,040
Speaker 2: that like it's being downplayed really aggressively by the Russian government.

637
00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:03,080
Speaker 2: And I'm certain that the average Russian person is just

638
00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:06,840
Speaker 2: trying to get along, right, but like a huge number

639
00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:10,600
Speaker 2: of people are actively resisting this or have been or

640
00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:13,920
Speaker 2: like you know, have died doing it. Or whatever, and

641
00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:16,720
Speaker 2: the Russian government tries to deny the attacks are happening.

642
00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:20,400
Speaker 2: So you actually have the people attacking recruitment centers will

643
00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:23,719
Speaker 2: film themselves doing it and then post on telegram. So

644
00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:26,440
Speaker 2: when the government's like, ah, nothing's happening, you're like, h

645
00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:30,360
Speaker 2: we can watch it happen. Although thanks to the AI

646
00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:34,120
Speaker 2: data centers that are destroying our ecosystem, that'll get messy

647
00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:38,200
Speaker 2: in the future anyway, whatever, don't want to get lost

648
00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:43,440
Speaker 2: thinking about that depressing thought. Railroad attacks, though, are generally

649
00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:48,959
Speaker 2: blamed on technical problems, not sabotage, but open source analysis

650
00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:52,800
Speaker 2: show that the railroad failures became substantially more common and

651
00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:56,000
Speaker 2: moved closer to military bases when compared with the year

652
00:33:56,080 --> 00:33:58,600
Speaker 2: prior to the invasion. So this is how they're able

653
00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:03,320
Speaker 2: to like prove that these are happening. And then there's

654
00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:06,720
Speaker 2: this funny thing where anyone who gets caught is all

655
00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:10,400
Speaker 2: at once called a Ukrainian Nazi and a militant anarchist.

656
00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:15,480
Speaker 2: And if there has ever been a moment in history

657
00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:19,640
Speaker 2: when these two very opposite groups are both doing this thing,

658
00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:20,920
Speaker 2: it is this work.

659
00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:24,200
Speaker 1: It's kind of like a fifty to fifty, right, you know,

660
00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:27,760
Speaker 1: It's like it could have been you know, Azov's finest soldier,

661
00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:29,080
Speaker 1: or it could have been you know.

662
00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:33,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, I will say that everything I've read says that

663
00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:36,560
Speaker 2: it's not fifty to fifty. The most active group or

664
00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:41,520
Speaker 2: non group of saboteurs within Russia is We're almost done

665
00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:44,320
Speaker 2: with both episodes. Before I introduced the subject of this week,

666
00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:49,880
Speaker 2: the militant and narco communist organization, the boa K. You

667
00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:53,920
Speaker 2: did promise that at the same I know, I said

668
00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:55,600
Speaker 2: that they would be the star, but russeln is the

669
00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:57,680
Speaker 2: real star. And it's like one of those things where

670
00:34:57,680 --> 00:35:00,799
Speaker 2: it's like, I'm assuming everything Russell has said to the

671
00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:05,200
Speaker 2: authorities is true. Rustling didn't have any associations with anyone,

672
00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:07,120
Speaker 2: you know, like all right whatever.

673
00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:10,560
Speaker 1: Like Also, Rustling ain't no snitch, I don't know, you know.

674
00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:14,840
Speaker 2: The boak It's unofficial motto, which gets at where we

675
00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:19,680
Speaker 2: were just talking about, is when if not now, who

676
00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:23,600
Speaker 2: if not us? And they've been around but entirely underground

677
00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:26,720
Speaker 2: since the late twenty tens. As soon as the war started,

678
00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:31,280
Speaker 2: they became more public, although still completely underground. They published

679
00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:34,000
Speaker 2: information about how to fuck up railroad tracks, how to

680
00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:38,479
Speaker 2: avoid capture, what actions have worked what actions haven't. They've

681
00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:41,080
Speaker 2: burned cell phone towers, They've burned the cars of people

682
00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:44,520
Speaker 2: who collaborate with Putin. They help people get connected with

683
00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:46,719
Speaker 2: others in their area to coordinate attack. Like I think

684
00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:49,479
Speaker 2: they literally had like a telegram bought, like a chat bought,

685
00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:53,600
Speaker 2: a chat bought like the old IRC days, where like

686
00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:57,719
Speaker 2: someone in the room is a computer program and you're like,

687
00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:00,560
Speaker 2: connect me to this thing, you know, And they set

688
00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:02,279
Speaker 2: one of those up to help people find the other

689
00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:06,719
Speaker 2: people in their area to go function up. One of

690
00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:09,800
Speaker 2: the founders of this group was Dmitri Petrov, the anarchists

691
00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:12,440
Speaker 2: who died defending the Humanitarian Quarter a few years back

692
00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:15,120
Speaker 2: that we talked about the top of the show, and

693
00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:19,160
Speaker 2: to quote the group, there are both organized cells and

694
00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:24,320
Speaker 2: spontaneous actions by people. Decentralization makes us more mobile and elusive,

695
00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:27,120
Speaker 2: but it prevents media coverage and makes it difficult to

696
00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:30,880
Speaker 2: estimate our numbers. After all, it's better this way in

697
00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:35,040
Speaker 2: the face of oppression. Another partisan who works with the

698
00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:38,360
Speaker 2: group spoke anonymously about how their group is mostly anarchists,

699
00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:39,439
Speaker 2: but not exclusively.

700
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:42,640
Speaker 1: This is a quote Putin.

701
00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:44,719
Speaker 2: Has been stealing the future from Russia and if we

702
00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:48,759
Speaker 2: get bogged down in political disputes. Today, we won't exist tomorrow.

703
00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:52,480
Speaker 2: Putin is threatening the world with nuclear war, turning the

704
00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:56,600
Speaker 2: whole world against Russia. Our compatriots are becoming even poorer.

705
00:36:57,120 --> 00:36:59,640
Speaker 2: People are afraid to speak out loud about what they

706
00:36:59,640 --> 00:37:02,800
Speaker 2: think of the government. To do nothing is to agree

707
00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:05,040
Speaker 2: to live under the rule of vile creatures for the

708
00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:07,839
Speaker 2: rest of our lives. Is this the future we want?

709
00:37:09,520 --> 00:37:12,480
Speaker 2: And then that partisan says that there are even a

710
00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:15,640
Speaker 2: couple of Russian nationalists working within their group, people who

711
00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:18,720
Speaker 2: correctly perceive Putin and his war to be the greatest

712
00:37:18,719 --> 00:37:22,719
Speaker 2: threat to Russia and the Russian people based Yeah.

713
00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:25,840
Speaker 1: You know, it's funny, how like it's I've noticed this,

714
00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:28,160
Speaker 1: so I'm sure you probably have as well. But just

715
00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:33,440
Speaker 1: it was so easy to feel like alone over the past,

716
00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:36,719
Speaker 1: you know, however, many years in terms of having this

717
00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:39,080
Speaker 1: idea about the world and how it works and who's

718
00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:43,240
Speaker 1: responsible for what. But something about the last two years

719
00:37:43,239 --> 00:37:46,719
Speaker 1: has just made this whole swath of different types of

720
00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:52,360
Speaker 1: people open to like alternate interpretations of their reality. Yeah,

721
00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:55,560
Speaker 1: and you often find that the people who want to

722
00:37:55,719 --> 00:38:01,840
Speaker 1: know more are like not the ones you'd expect. The

723
00:38:01,880 --> 00:38:03,040
Speaker 1: people who want to help.

724
00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:06,640
Speaker 2: Totally that these like Russian nationalists are now part of

725
00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:10,600
Speaker 2: the organization of Milicin and Arco communists, because those are

726
00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:12,239
Speaker 2: the people who are fucking up Russia.

727
00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:15,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like welcome to the rebellion, I guess you know.

728
00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:18,480
Speaker 1: It's like it's so funny because this is like the

729
00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:22,480
Speaker 1: obvious lesson of every revolutionary conflict in history, which is

730
00:38:22,520 --> 00:38:24,279
Speaker 1: that you have to make common calls with people you

731
00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:27,240
Speaker 1: don't like. But it's also the very thing that leftists

732
00:38:27,400 --> 00:38:30,360
Speaker 1: like to like read back in and say it delegitimizes

733
00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:34,520
Speaker 1: certain forms of psist Ukraine being a great example, you know. So,

734
00:38:34,680 --> 00:38:38,560
Speaker 1: like some people will dismiss Makno because he worked with

735
00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:40,800
Speaker 1: the Red Army. Other people will dismiss him because he

736
00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:42,480
Speaker 1: didn't work with the Red Army because he worked with

737
00:38:42,520 --> 00:38:46,040
Speaker 1: the Ukrainian Nationalists. Also sometimes yeah, and then the Ukrainian

738
00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:48,640
Speaker 1: Nationalists will get blamed for working with the Nazis, but

739
00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:51,239
Speaker 1: then they also hid Jews, and like they're written up

740
00:38:51,239 --> 00:38:53,000
Speaker 1: in all the Nazi papers as being like these guys

741
00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:59,200
Speaker 1: are pretty unreliable anti Semites. They're like unreliable collaborators. They

742
00:38:59,239 --> 00:39:02,680
Speaker 1: seem to be way more into Ukrainianism than Nazism, which

743
00:39:02,680 --> 00:39:04,799
Speaker 1: I think is like an interesting bit of nuance. Even

744
00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:07,160
Speaker 1: like I don't like step On Bendera as like a character.

745
00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:10,480
Speaker 1: I think he made some bad choices in his decision

746
00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:13,040
Speaker 1: to fight for Ukraine the Ukrainian nationalists who collaborated with

747
00:39:13,040 --> 00:39:16,800
Speaker 1: the Nazi Germany. Yes, founder of the OA and Organization

748
00:39:16,840 --> 00:39:20,200
Speaker 1: of Ukrainian or I might messed that up anyway, but

749
00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:24,440
Speaker 1: he's not actually worse than George Washington. Like, George Washington

750
00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:28,400
Speaker 1: is probably a worse guy than step On Bandera, the

751
00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:32,080
Speaker 1: Nazi collaborator was right, But if like a bunch of

752
00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:36,680
Speaker 1: people started like putting George Washington on flags and doing

753
00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:42,120
Speaker 1: certain things, like you probably wouldn't grief them too much.

754
00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:46,840
Speaker 2: You know, I might, but only me. I'm like uniquely

755
00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:50,239
Speaker 2: anti George Washington. But I see your point, Like.

756
00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:53,040
Speaker 1: Right, It's it's kind of like if you're talking about

757
00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:55,480
Speaker 1: like a good old boy from Appalachia who's like, right,

758
00:39:55,560 --> 00:39:58,240
Speaker 1: I want to resist the techno fascists.

759
00:39:58,719 --> 00:40:00,680
Speaker 2: Right, It's not the first thing I'm going to say

760
00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:02,880
Speaker 2: is like, well, then you can't have George Washington on

761
00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:05,840
Speaker 2: your flag. I'll be like, that's not how I play.

762
00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:08,799
Speaker 1: But that's up. Yeah, yeah, you're not going to be

763
00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:11,440
Speaker 1: like that's problematic because he wore other people's teeth in

764
00:40:11,440 --> 00:40:13,600
Speaker 1: his mouth. You're going to be like a good, good

765
00:40:13,680 --> 00:40:17,040
Speaker 1: job buddy, like nice action or whatever.

766
00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:18,759
Speaker 2: It's the kind of thing you can have like conversations

767
00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:22,600
Speaker 2: over beers about instead of like a civil war looms,

768
00:40:22,680 --> 00:40:24,440
Speaker 2: I start looking at things way more of like are

769
00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:25,719
Speaker 2: they shooting at me or with me?

770
00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:27,200
Speaker 1: Yeah?

771
00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:30,759
Speaker 2: If it breaks out, who's trying to kill me? Like

772
00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:32,799
Speaker 2: and enough people are trying to kill me as a

773
00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:36,120
Speaker 2: trans anarchist that I'm like, everyone's not trying to kill me.

774
00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:38,879
Speaker 1: I'm a little bit more chill with right now. Find

775
00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:42,600
Speaker 1: in my book. It's funny because your your whole concept

776
00:40:42,600 --> 00:40:45,279
Speaker 1: of de escalat all conflict with the enemy is something.

777
00:40:45,080 --> 00:40:47,960
Speaker 2: I have with everyone who isn't the enemy. De escalator

778
00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:49,520
Speaker 2: all conflict with anyone who is on the shoe.

779
00:40:49,560 --> 00:40:52,040
Speaker 1: Did I get that? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, I've been doing

780
00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:53,880
Speaker 1: it the wrong way this entire time. No one do

781
00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:56,319
Speaker 1: I get accused the leftist in fighting but no, it's

782
00:40:56,360 --> 00:40:58,960
Speaker 1: like my New Year's resolution was to be kinder to tankies.

783
00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:00,480
Speaker 1: I broke it within like stays.

784
00:41:00,520 --> 00:41:03,680
Speaker 2: But now that's hard, that's gonna be my legalist moment

785
00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:05,880
Speaker 2: in a fucking tanky.

786
00:41:06,239 --> 00:41:08,680
Speaker 1: Yeah. Anyway, Yeah, I never thought I'd die fighting side

787
00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:11,960
Speaker 1: by side with a Marxist, Yeah, with a Campist. But

788
00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:15,879
Speaker 1: I think it's important. At some point these finer ideological

789
00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:20,200
Speaker 1: distinctions seem a little unimportant given, yeah, you know, gestures

790
00:41:20,239 --> 00:41:21,600
Speaker 1: broadly all this, But.

791
00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:23,400
Speaker 2: Then it's interesting because then you still see though, Like

792
00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:26,120
Speaker 2: I think when people are more ideologically driven than like

793
00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:29,279
Speaker 2: ethically driven, you get it at this problem, right, we're

794
00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:32,640
Speaker 2: like finbar By quotes. I'm not trying to put words

795
00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:34,719
Speaker 2: in his mouth, but like you know, he was like,

796
00:41:35,239 --> 00:41:37,480
Speaker 2: I'm here, I'm gonna help These are the people who

797
00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:40,040
Speaker 2: need help. I'm going to help them, right. But someone

798
00:41:40,040 --> 00:41:43,960
Speaker 2: who's like directly only seeing the world through an ideological lens.

799
00:41:44,600 --> 00:41:47,759
Speaker 2: You know, there was a Marxist Leninist American who died

800
00:41:47,760 --> 00:41:51,000
Speaker 2: fighting for Russia a couple of years ago because he

801
00:41:51,120 --> 00:41:53,839
Speaker 2: was like, this is the thing to do is go

802
00:41:53,960 --> 00:41:58,000
Speaker 2: help defeat the Ukrainians in the name of Marxist Leninism

803
00:41:58,120 --> 00:42:01,880
Speaker 2: or whatever. Right, and like fuck that guy, I don't know,

804
00:42:01,960 --> 00:42:05,520
Speaker 2: he followed fucking Russians, and like there's this whole thing

805
00:42:05,560 --> 00:42:09,160
Speaker 2: where like if you're able to build a logical argument,

806
00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:12,360
Speaker 2: you then need to look at the logical argument and

807
00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:14,080
Speaker 2: get rid of all the steps that got you there

808
00:42:14,120 --> 00:42:17,080
Speaker 2: and be like, is this nonsense? Because you can build

809
00:42:17,120 --> 00:42:20,440
Speaker 2: logical arguments for anything. Yeah, and it's a fun game.

810
00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:23,759
Speaker 2: But at the end of it you need to say, oh,

811
00:42:23,840 --> 00:42:26,399
Speaker 2: my logical argument led me to believe that I can

812
00:42:26,560 --> 00:42:33,360
Speaker 2: justify Russia invading Ukraine or Israel fucking genocide and Palestinians,

813
00:42:33,840 --> 00:42:37,799
Speaker 2: or like whatever the fuck the thing is. And then

814
00:42:37,840 --> 00:42:43,120
Speaker 2: you need to say, like, ah, I now see, ideology

815
00:42:43,160 --> 00:42:45,239
Speaker 2: is not the only thing that can happen. So my

816
00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:49,520
Speaker 2: worry with Marxist Leninism is that I will work with

817
00:42:49,600 --> 00:42:54,959
Speaker 2: progressives way the fuck sooner, because Marxist Leninists, if they're

818
00:42:54,960 --> 00:43:01,920
Speaker 2: doing this campus shit, support really awful shit, really directly,

819
00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:05,400
Speaker 2: you know, like if we're using this conflict as the example,

820
00:43:05,400 --> 00:43:08,160
Speaker 2: they are literally on the opposite side of this conflict.

821
00:43:08,320 --> 00:43:12,400
Speaker 1: In they're failing a pretty important test of solidarity in

822
00:43:12,440 --> 00:43:14,440
Speaker 1: many ways, like it might not seem important, but like

823
00:43:15,239 --> 00:43:19,280
Speaker 1: if your friends are Ukrainians or if you are Ukrainian,

824
00:43:19,320 --> 00:43:20,759
Speaker 1: that's existential to you.

825
00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:26,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, Okay, So the Boak doing all these attacks within

826
00:43:26,080 --> 00:43:29,520
Speaker 2: Russia helping people like do these decentralized kind of cell

827
00:43:29,560 --> 00:43:32,960
Speaker 2: movement things. Obviously they're not saying what their numbers are.

828
00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:35,280
Speaker 2: Most people are guessing there's like twenty to thirty active

829
00:43:35,320 --> 00:43:38,239
Speaker 2: cells within the country as of about two years ago

830
00:43:38,520 --> 00:43:40,600
Speaker 2: when most of the articles written about them were written,

831
00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:44,640
Speaker 2: and some of them have left to go fight in

832
00:43:44,760 --> 00:43:50,279
Speaker 2: Ukraine against Russia, like the anarchist Vladislav Lurchenko, who went

833
00:43:50,320 --> 00:43:52,879
Speaker 2: by the call sign Pirate. He was twenty two when

834
00:43:52,880 --> 00:43:55,360
Speaker 2: he died. He fought in the Siberian Battalion, one of

835
00:43:55,400 --> 00:44:00,880
Speaker 2: several units of Russian volunteers, and the Siberian Battalion was

836
00:44:00,920 --> 00:44:04,719
Speaker 2: a former Russian officer named Vladislav Amasov who had the

837
00:44:04,840 --> 00:44:09,920
Speaker 2: very accurate quote Russia spares no one, especially its own people.

838
00:44:10,680 --> 00:44:13,320
Speaker 2: And yeah, I haven't found much information about them since

839
00:44:13,400 --> 00:44:17,280
Speaker 2: twenty twenty three, and I've read a lot of accounts

840
00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:19,399
Speaker 2: from members who like, do a thing and then get

841
00:44:19,400 --> 00:44:21,319
Speaker 2: the fuck out of Russia, or do a thing and

842
00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:25,680
Speaker 2: then go to prison, and there's you know, I believe

843
00:44:25,680 --> 00:44:28,799
Speaker 2: thousands of anti war prisoners in the country. One of

844
00:44:28,800 --> 00:44:33,520
Speaker 2: these prisoners is an anarchist named Alexey Roshkov, who Molotov

845
00:44:33,560 --> 00:44:36,080
Speaker 2: to recruitment center within a few weeks of the war's beginning.

846
00:44:37,880 --> 00:44:41,520
Speaker 2: He'd acted spontaneously. He'd just seen all the civilians being

847
00:44:41,600 --> 00:44:46,040
Speaker 2: murdered and wanted to do something. But acting fully spontaneously

848
00:44:46,040 --> 00:44:48,680
Speaker 2: with a Molotov. Just like Frankly, I try not to

849
00:44:48,719 --> 00:44:51,040
Speaker 2: give out strategic advice one way or the other on

850
00:44:51,080 --> 00:44:57,319
Speaker 2: this show. Don't spontaneously do shit with fire. Yes, I

851
00:44:57,360 --> 00:45:03,840
Speaker 2: am not aware of that working well. Ever, passing traffic

852
00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:05,880
Speaker 2: cops caught him. This is a way that like no,

853
00:45:06,000 --> 00:45:07,440
Speaker 2: I can't remember his name. There was an anarchist in

854
00:45:07,480 --> 00:45:10,879
Speaker 2: the usum Molotov to recruitment center during the early days

855
00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:14,680
Speaker 2: of the War on Terror, and he acted kind of

856
00:45:14,680 --> 00:45:17,279
Speaker 2: impulsively Molotov to recruitment center and the Bronx and a

857
00:45:17,320 --> 00:45:22,080
Speaker 2: passing traffic cop caught him. He spent years in prison. Anyway,

858
00:45:23,080 --> 00:45:26,160
Speaker 2: he got caught Alexei, and when he was released from

859
00:45:26,200 --> 00:45:29,400
Speaker 2: pre trial before his hearing, he fucked off to Kyrgyzstan.

860
00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:34,040
Speaker 2: While he was there, he was followed and surveiled constantly.

861
00:45:34,800 --> 00:45:36,799
Speaker 2: There was like no legal means by which they should

862
00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:38,840
Speaker 2: have been able to extradite him. As far as I'm aware,

863
00:45:39,080 --> 00:45:43,759
Speaker 2: but he was absolutely being followed the whole time, and

864
00:45:43,800 --> 00:45:45,520
Speaker 2: he was like, you know what, fuck this, The world

865
00:45:45,600 --> 00:45:48,400
Speaker 2: needs to know about this shit. He gave interviews regardless

866
00:45:48,440 --> 00:45:51,000
Speaker 2: of the fact that he was being followed because he

867
00:45:51,080 --> 00:45:53,799
Speaker 2: wanted people to know about Putin's fascism and repression and

868
00:45:53,840 --> 00:45:56,960
Speaker 2: also that resistance to it is alive and well in Russia.

869
00:45:57,560 --> 00:45:59,880
Speaker 2: Then the local police there arrested him and handed him

870
00:45:59,880 --> 00:46:02,880
Speaker 2: all to Russian security forces. He asked for a lawyer,

871
00:46:03,040 --> 00:46:05,520
Speaker 2: and they told him a lawyer won't help you anyway.

872
00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:09,120
Speaker 2: They tried to make him sign So I remember when

873
00:46:09,120 --> 00:46:10,880
Speaker 2: I was saying earlier that Russia is still a country

874
00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:14,879
Speaker 2: of laws. Yeah, I only sort of mean that. They

875
00:46:14,920 --> 00:46:17,200
Speaker 2: tried to make him sign something that saying he hadn't

876
00:46:17,200 --> 00:46:21,719
Speaker 2: been tortured, so he refused, so they tortured him.

877
00:46:22,040 --> 00:46:24,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, unnatural consequence.

878
00:46:24,760 --> 00:46:28,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, And once again it's the same like electrical chord

879
00:46:28,200 --> 00:46:31,239
Speaker 2: all of the fucking old like spy movies and shit,

880
00:46:31,600 --> 00:46:33,400
Speaker 2: that's just actually still how Russia does it.

881
00:46:33,560 --> 00:46:37,120
Speaker 1: They just electrocute people. So there really is a guy

882
00:46:37,200 --> 00:46:40,000
Speaker 1: who like has a thick Russian accent, who like touches

883
00:46:40,080 --> 00:46:43,040
Speaker 1: the two car cables together and like starts cackling and

884
00:46:43,080 --> 00:46:47,319
Speaker 1: saying something in Russian. I believe, yes, that's not a meme.

885
00:46:47,440 --> 00:46:48,600
Speaker 1: That's wow, that's crazy.

886
00:46:48,719 --> 00:46:52,560
Speaker 2: Yeah no, they still absolutely like Anarkis have been talking

887
00:46:52,600 --> 00:46:55,799
Speaker 2: about torture within Russian prisons for decades now, I am

888
00:46:55,840 --> 00:46:59,120
Speaker 2: certain it just never stopped. So Alexe was sentenced to

889
00:46:59,200 --> 00:47:03,520
Speaker 2: sixteen years prison, and some of his charges included justifying

890
00:47:03,680 --> 00:47:11,000
Speaker 2: terrorism for giving interviews. His malotav attack did fourteen euro

891
00:47:11,160 --> 00:47:14,719
Speaker 2: in damages to the recruitment center. There is plenty more

892
00:47:14,760 --> 00:47:17,200
Speaker 2: to say. Of course, the militant and narco communists aren't

893
00:47:17,200 --> 00:47:19,960
Speaker 2: the only ones trying to stop Putin, but above ground

894
00:47:20,040 --> 00:47:23,480
Speaker 2: organizing an agitation has been made essentially impossible by the regime.

895
00:47:24,120 --> 00:47:26,719
Speaker 2: I read about case after case of teenagers being sent

896
00:47:26,719 --> 00:47:30,920
Speaker 2: to prison for graffiti or social media posts. A nineteen

897
00:47:31,000 --> 00:47:33,799
Speaker 2: year old named Daria Kozireva was sentenced to three years

898
00:47:33,800 --> 00:47:35,840
Speaker 2: in prison for putting up a post on a wall

899
00:47:35,880 --> 00:47:40,040
Speaker 2: with a verse from an eighteen forty five poem called

900
00:47:40,120 --> 00:47:45,160
Speaker 2: My Testament by a Ukrainian poet named Taras Shvchenko. And

901
00:47:45,200 --> 00:47:49,560
Speaker 2: I believe this is the verse in question. Oh bury me,

902
00:47:49,960 --> 00:47:53,040
Speaker 2: then rise ye up and break your heavy chains and

903
00:47:53,160 --> 00:47:56,280
Speaker 2: water with the tyrant's blood the freedom you have gained.

904
00:47:57,719 --> 00:48:01,160
Speaker 2: In April twenty twenty four, a sixteen year old girl

905
00:48:01,280 --> 00:48:05,160
Speaker 2: named Lubov Lusnovia and a twenty year old named Alexander

906
00:48:05,200 --> 00:48:08,560
Speaker 2: Snevskov got years in prison three point five years and

907
00:48:08,640 --> 00:48:12,680
Speaker 2: six years, respectively for graffiti that said death to the

908
00:48:12,719 --> 00:48:17,520
Speaker 2: regime and being admins on an anarchist telegram channel. And

909
00:48:17,800 --> 00:48:20,480
Speaker 2: the last information I could find about Alexander is that

910
00:48:21,040 --> 00:48:23,799
Speaker 2: he was at fifty eight days in solitary confinement. This

911
00:48:23,840 --> 00:48:28,520
Speaker 2: was about a year ago. The lawyers defending these people

912
00:48:28,640 --> 00:48:33,719
Speaker 2: who are still doing it are heroes, and people get

913
00:48:33,840 --> 00:48:36,520
Speaker 2: sentenced to prison for being lawyers fighting against Putin on

914
00:48:36,560 --> 00:48:40,080
Speaker 2: a regular basis, including very not anarchists. Next person to

915
00:48:40,120 --> 00:48:43,000
Speaker 2: mention the head of opposition to Putin was a guy

916
00:48:43,080 --> 00:48:46,400
Speaker 2: named Alexey Navalny who died in prison, and three of

917
00:48:46,400 --> 00:48:48,520
Speaker 2: his lawyers were sentenced to three to five years in

918
00:48:48,560 --> 00:48:52,160
Speaker 2: prison for being part of an extremist organization aka a

919
00:48:52,360 --> 00:48:57,520
Speaker 2: political candidate running against Putin. These lawyers have almost no

920
00:48:57,680 --> 00:49:01,560
Speaker 2: impact on the cases, not just in Alexei's case, but

921
00:49:01,680 --> 00:49:04,000
Speaker 2: just you know in general, why I can't say Alexey

922
00:49:04,080 --> 00:49:06,799
Speaker 2: half the people in this are named Alexe, but it's

923
00:49:06,880 --> 00:49:09,680
Speaker 2: kangaroo court, is what's going on. The head of a

924
00:49:09,760 --> 00:49:14,400
Speaker 2: human rights group in Lithuania, Sergey Davidis said, quote, the

925
00:49:14,440 --> 00:49:18,560
Speaker 2: main role of the lawyer is now moral, psychological, to

926
00:49:18,640 --> 00:49:21,239
Speaker 2: provide the victim, the inmate, with the feeling that he

927
00:49:21,360 --> 00:49:24,400
Speaker 2: is not alone, to provide him with some communication with

928
00:49:24,440 --> 00:49:29,000
Speaker 2: the outside world, even with his family. One of those lawyers,

929
00:49:29,080 --> 00:49:33,640
Speaker 2: Olga Potopolalova, says, the Russian prison system nowadays is the

930
00:49:33,680 --> 00:49:37,560
Speaker 2: prolongation of the Soviet Gulag system. It's the same walls

931
00:49:37,840 --> 00:49:42,200
Speaker 2: with a different name. Alexey, the opposition leader, was a

932
00:49:42,239 --> 00:49:44,440
Speaker 2: complicated guy. I'm not really equipped to speak on as

933
00:49:44,480 --> 00:49:47,280
Speaker 2: an expert. He moved from far right to centrist, leading

934
00:49:47,320 --> 00:49:50,640
Speaker 2: anti immigrant marches in the aughts and then changing his

935
00:49:50,719 --> 00:49:53,520
Speaker 2: tune in the late teens, speaking out in support of

936
00:49:53,560 --> 00:49:57,160
Speaker 2: Black Lives Matter and the legalization of same sex marriage.

937
00:49:57,200 --> 00:50:00,320
Speaker 2: He was arrested first in twenty twenty one, after spending

938
00:50:00,360 --> 00:50:02,839
Speaker 2: time in Germany recovering from what he claims was nerve

939
00:50:02,840 --> 00:50:05,560
Speaker 2: agent poisoning done by Putin's government. I have no reason

940
00:50:05,600 --> 00:50:09,200
Speaker 2: to believe he's lying. He was then given two point

941
00:50:09,280 --> 00:50:12,280
Speaker 2: five years in prison, and they extended it to nineteen years,

942
00:50:12,280 --> 00:50:14,640
Speaker 2: and then he died in February twenty twenty four at

943
00:50:14,640 --> 00:50:16,600
Speaker 2: the age of forty nine, and two of his other

944
00:50:16,680 --> 00:50:22,040
Speaker 2: lawyers fled the country. And yeah, this is what Trump

945
00:50:22,080 --> 00:50:23,279
Speaker 2: is trying to make America look like.

946
00:50:23,719 --> 00:50:28,000
Speaker 1: Yep. Navalney's is a really interesting one because it really

947
00:50:28,080 --> 00:50:30,520
Speaker 1: is like that's kind of like that was the last

948
00:50:30,560 --> 00:50:34,320
Speaker 1: gasp of like the Russian liberal. Yeah, and it's funny

949
00:50:34,320 --> 00:50:36,600
Speaker 1: because I mean, you talk to the Ukrainians, they don't

950
00:50:36,600 --> 00:50:39,799
Speaker 1: like Nivolney. He said some terrible stuff about Ukraine. He

951
00:50:40,520 --> 00:50:44,160
Speaker 1: was for a very long time kind of a Russian chauvinist.

952
00:50:44,760 --> 00:50:47,320
Speaker 1: He switched that up, and it was difficult to know

953
00:50:47,360 --> 00:50:49,840
Speaker 1: if his switch up was a tactical move by aligning

954
00:50:49,920 --> 00:50:52,760
Speaker 1: himself with Western liberals, or if it was a genuine

955
00:50:52,840 --> 00:50:55,040
Speaker 1: change of heart. You know, I think it's possible for

956
00:50:55,080 --> 00:50:57,560
Speaker 1: people to have genuine changes of heart. I bet it's

957
00:50:57,600 --> 00:51:01,200
Speaker 1: a fifty to fifty. Yeah, Like, somebody very close to

958
00:51:01,239 --> 00:51:04,320
Speaker 1: me worked on the documentary that came out about him

959
00:51:04,480 --> 00:51:07,680
Speaker 1: that won the Oscar and it was released either directly

960
00:51:07,680 --> 00:51:10,719
Speaker 1: before directly after he died. I don't remember which. And

961
00:51:10,800 --> 00:51:12,719
Speaker 1: you really just get the sense of that documentary is like, oh,

962
00:51:12,719 --> 00:51:14,960
Speaker 1: this was the last gasp of like any hope the

963
00:51:15,040 --> 00:51:18,320
Speaker 1: Russian liberals had of turning their country around. Yeah, outside

964
00:51:18,320 --> 00:51:22,160
Speaker 1: of you know, just general mass uprising of strikes or

965
00:51:23,000 --> 00:51:28,160
Speaker 1: it is crazy to imagine that guys like Dimitri and

966
00:51:28,280 --> 00:51:32,919
Speaker 1: guys like Alexi Navali are like part of the same struggles. Yeah,

967
00:51:33,200 --> 00:51:35,160
Speaker 1: It's like the right and the left doesn't make sense

968
00:51:35,200 --> 00:51:37,439
Speaker 1: when you apply it to Eastern Europe. Like the real

969
00:51:37,520 --> 00:51:41,680
Speaker 1: axis in Ukraine starts with pro Russia or anti Russia,

970
00:51:41,760 --> 00:51:45,920
Speaker 1: and then it goes right left, you know, nationalist, libertarian. Yeah,

971
00:51:45,960 --> 00:51:48,239
Speaker 1: but the real ashes is Russia. It's also I got

972
00:51:48,280 --> 00:51:50,600
Speaker 1: a little emotional when you talked about that sixteen year

973
00:51:50,600 --> 00:51:54,680
Speaker 1: old girl who had a quote from Tarashevchenko, because Taras

974
00:51:54,680 --> 00:51:58,799
Speaker 1: Shevchenko was one of the great poets of Ukraine, a

975
00:51:58,840 --> 00:52:02,319
Speaker 1: man who was routinely persecuted for speaking up and one

976
00:52:02,320 --> 00:52:06,080
Speaker 1: of the first great people to articulate kind of the

977
00:52:06,120 --> 00:52:09,640
Speaker 1: soul of Ukraine and the idea that a Russian teenager

978
00:52:09,640 --> 00:52:11,839
Speaker 1: could find so much inspiration in that that shed you know,

979
00:52:11,920 --> 00:52:14,040
Speaker 1: write his quote. And I've heard that quote a million times.

980
00:52:14,040 --> 00:52:16,719
Speaker 1: I've seen it on the graves of Ukrainian soldiers. I've

981
00:52:16,719 --> 00:52:19,080
Speaker 1: seen it tattooed on morale patches that have been passed

982
00:52:19,080 --> 00:52:21,440
Speaker 1: around the front lines. That made me a bit emotional

983
00:52:21,520 --> 00:52:22,359
Speaker 1: even just thinking about that.

984
00:52:22,480 --> 00:52:25,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, and she's probably in prison right now for graffiti

985
00:52:25,560 --> 00:52:25,759
Speaker 2: in that.

986
00:52:26,440 --> 00:52:30,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like any leftist or anyone in general who has

987
00:52:30,600 --> 00:52:35,520
Speaker 1: a take about Ukraine but like doesn't know who Tyres Shepchenko,

988
00:52:35,760 --> 00:52:39,080
Speaker 1: or like hasn't read him, or like doesn't run their

989
00:52:39,120 --> 00:52:41,640
Speaker 1: takes by Ukrainians, I just I'm just like kind of

990
00:52:41,719 --> 00:52:44,440
Speaker 1: uninterested in it, Like they don't actually know who these

991
00:52:44,480 --> 00:52:47,880
Speaker 1: people are, like their history, their doctrine, their their soul.

992
00:52:48,280 --> 00:52:51,680
Speaker 1: Like if you if you read Taris Shepchenko, if you

993
00:52:51,800 --> 00:52:54,239
Speaker 1: understand the meaning of is Shivanka, like if you hear

994
00:52:54,800 --> 00:52:58,279
Speaker 1: the sounds of a bandura, like you can't engage with

995
00:52:58,320 --> 00:53:02,880
Speaker 1: those things without feeling like there is an ancientness to

996
00:53:02,960 --> 00:53:06,880
Speaker 1: this culture and this method of resistance. It's a culture

997
00:53:06,880 --> 00:53:10,680
Speaker 1: that's been on the brink of genocide for ages, and

998
00:53:10,800 --> 00:53:14,080
Speaker 1: there are plenty of Russians who recognize that. Yeah, they're

999
00:53:14,120 --> 00:53:18,879
Speaker 1: just spread very far between each other, and I think

1000
00:53:18,880 --> 00:53:21,839
Speaker 1: it is so inspiring, you know, to see the ones

1001
00:53:21,840 --> 00:53:25,160
Speaker 1: who were willing to risk so much to go to

1002
00:53:25,400 --> 00:53:27,719
Speaker 1: Ukraine or to engage in these actions on behalf, and

1003
00:53:27,719 --> 00:53:30,000
Speaker 1: then that seems to be such an instigating incident for

1004
00:53:30,080 --> 00:53:32,440
Speaker 1: so many of them. Yeah, I think a lot.

1005
00:53:32,280 --> 00:53:37,080
Speaker 2: Of the disrespect of the idea that Ukraine has any legitimacy.

1006
00:53:37,560 --> 00:53:41,520
Speaker 2: I think it plays on like a white American guilt.

1007
00:53:41,680 --> 00:53:43,440
Speaker 2: And when I say white, I actually kind of mean

1008
00:53:43,480 --> 00:53:46,440
Speaker 2: that in the context of like the destruction of culture,

1009
00:53:46,760 --> 00:53:48,960
Speaker 2: like if whiteness is the devil's bargain, where you're like,

1010
00:53:49,760 --> 00:53:52,320
Speaker 2: you know, I would like access to power in an exchange,

1011
00:53:52,360 --> 00:53:57,400
Speaker 2: I'm giving up everything about being Irish except drinking, right, Yeah,

1012
00:53:57,480 --> 00:54:01,480
Speaker 2: And slowly people are starting to understand that, like liberation

1013
00:54:01,680 --> 00:54:05,080
Speaker 2: struggles are sometimes national liberation struggles, and we get more

1014
00:54:05,120 --> 00:54:08,080
Speaker 2: excited about them when they're internationalist struggles, right like in

1015
00:54:08,160 --> 00:54:10,440
Speaker 2: Rasjava that I think the Kurds are really you know,

1016
00:54:10,600 --> 00:54:13,080
Speaker 2: showing the way of like here's how you have what

1017
00:54:13,160 --> 00:54:15,920
Speaker 2: looks like a national struggle, but make it very intentionally

1018
00:54:15,920 --> 00:54:19,120
Speaker 2: not a national struggle. And I think that, Yeah, a

1019
00:54:19,239 --> 00:54:23,759
Speaker 2: very distinctly multi ethnic and multicultural society like Ukraine is

1020
00:54:23,760 --> 00:54:26,480
Speaker 2: actually a decent example of this, but it's like very

1021
00:54:26,480 --> 00:54:28,880
Speaker 2: few people are coming at like every now and then

1022
00:54:28,880 --> 00:54:30,440
Speaker 2: I'll have people come at me about this, but like

1023
00:54:30,719 --> 00:54:33,560
Speaker 2: in general, people aren't like, oh, well, the early Irish

1024
00:54:33,600 --> 00:54:35,759
Speaker 2: people wanted to be free of the UK. They're not

1025
00:54:35,920 --> 00:54:39,439
Speaker 2: legitimate because they like are nationalists or whatever, right, like.

1026
00:54:39,600 --> 00:54:43,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, or Palestinians, Yeah, same thing. And so the Ukrainian

1027
00:54:43,360 --> 00:54:44,680
Speaker 1: flag is this interesting thing.

1028
00:54:44,760 --> 00:54:48,720
Speaker 2: There was a Ukrainian anarchist painter who died in combat recently,

1029
00:54:48,920 --> 00:54:50,200
Speaker 2: is a muralist and a painter.

1030
00:54:50,680 --> 00:54:53,560
Speaker 1: His art is beautiful. I didn't write his name down for.

1031
00:54:53,520 --> 00:54:56,719
Speaker 2: This, and he does things like put the black and

1032
00:54:56,760 --> 00:55:00,000
Speaker 2: red anarchist flag and the Ukrainian flag in the same

1033
00:55:00,239 --> 00:55:05,200
Speaker 2: art and to a Western audience, this seems wrong, right,

1034
00:55:06,239 --> 00:55:11,359
Speaker 2: But it doesn't seem too from anarchists that I've talked

1035
00:55:11,400 --> 00:55:14,160
Speaker 2: to or heard from about this in Ukraine, and it's

1036
00:55:14,200 --> 00:55:18,160
Speaker 2: like no one's mad at an Irish flag. And people

1037
00:55:18,160 --> 00:55:20,160
Speaker 2: are saying, like, I think people are doing this to

1038
00:55:20,239 --> 00:55:22,560
Speaker 2: Ukraine one because of Russian propaganda and two because it's

1039
00:55:22,600 --> 00:55:27,840
Speaker 2: like mainland Europe and it's not as understood. Its history

1040
00:55:27,920 --> 00:55:31,439
Speaker 2: isn't as understood. I don't know, it's complicated. I also

1041
00:55:31,600 --> 00:55:37,200
Speaker 2: like get why leftist left nationalism in the nineteenth century

1042
00:55:37,200 --> 00:55:40,240
Speaker 2: by and large, with major exceptions, all throughout the struggle

1043
00:55:40,239 --> 00:55:42,160
Speaker 2: for anti colonization all throughout the world.

1044
00:55:42,719 --> 00:55:46,520
Speaker 1: And also it's like there is a difference between a

1045
00:55:46,680 --> 00:55:49,920
Speaker 1: nation and a state, you know, like you can you

1046
00:55:50,000 --> 00:55:53,600
Speaker 1: can love the Ukrainian nation without loving the Ukrainian state.

1047
00:55:54,600 --> 00:55:59,040
Speaker 1: The Ukrainian flag is just it's a symbol you see

1048
00:55:59,120 --> 00:56:02,840
Speaker 1: anytime you drive on a highway, including the Highway of Life,

1049
00:56:02,840 --> 00:56:04,600
Speaker 1: the one you mentioned at the beginning of this pat

1050
00:56:04,680 --> 00:56:07,840
Speaker 1: which I think was like T four five or something.

1051
00:56:08,000 --> 00:56:12,319
Speaker 1: It was basically the road between Chessivyar and Bakhmot, which

1052
00:56:12,400 --> 00:56:15,160
Speaker 1: was the only paved road that remained intact during the

1053
00:56:15,160 --> 00:56:17,560
Speaker 1: course of that conflict. So all the eight convoy, it

1054
00:56:17,600 --> 00:56:20,439
Speaker 1: wasn't a humanitarian convoy. It was just like the only

1055
00:56:20,480 --> 00:56:25,160
Speaker 1: way Ukrainians could get stuffed to relieve bach Moot. You

1056
00:56:25,239 --> 00:56:27,040
Speaker 1: go down that highway, you get on any highay in Ukraine,

1057
00:56:27,080 --> 00:56:30,560
Speaker 1: you'll see the Ukrainian flag because it's a field of

1058
00:56:30,600 --> 00:56:35,399
Speaker 1: wheat yellow with a blue sky above it. That is Ukraine. Yeah,

1059
00:56:35,760 --> 00:56:40,120
Speaker 1: that is what that flag represents. And I think that's

1060
00:56:40,120 --> 00:56:43,200
Speaker 1: a beautiful thing, you know, and then kind of metal

1061
00:56:43,280 --> 00:56:47,600
Speaker 1: slightly problematic the black and red Ukrainian flag, which is

1062
00:56:47,640 --> 00:56:49,480
Speaker 1: not the anarchists flag, but rather the flag of the

1063
00:56:49,640 --> 00:56:51,440
Speaker 1: Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists.

1064
00:56:51,560 --> 00:56:54,359
Speaker 2: No, no, but in this case, the murals I'm talking about,

1065
00:56:54,360 --> 00:56:56,279
Speaker 2: this was an anarchist This was the black and red

1066
00:56:56,320 --> 00:57:00,560
Speaker 2: anarchist flag. This is divided diagonally. Is still flag that

1067
00:57:01,200 --> 00:57:02,440
Speaker 2: is in use, I believe that.

1068
00:57:02,480 --> 00:57:04,719
Speaker 1: But there is another flag which looks very similar to

1069
00:57:04,719 --> 00:57:08,280
Speaker 1: the black and red anarchists flag, which is actually Bandera's flag. Yeah,

1070
00:57:08,320 --> 00:57:10,560
Speaker 1: and that is just the flag of Ukraine, but dipped

1071
00:57:10,600 --> 00:57:13,839
Speaker 1: in blood. It's red, you know, it's supposed to be. Yeah,

1072
00:57:13,880 --> 00:57:18,600
Speaker 1: it becomes that so you don't have to fall for

1073
00:57:18,640 --> 00:57:24,440
Speaker 1: the siren song of nation state loving nationalism to support

1074
00:57:24,480 --> 00:57:26,200
Speaker 1: a nation of people. Yeah.

1075
00:57:26,200 --> 00:57:28,840
Speaker 2: I think that there's like there's a lot of nuance

1076
00:57:28,880 --> 00:57:33,160
Speaker 2: that people get nervous about and rush to simple comforting

1077
00:57:33,200 --> 00:57:35,320
Speaker 2: answers instead of rushing to the simple comforting answers of

1078
00:57:35,400 --> 00:57:37,960
Speaker 2: like maybe we should stop the people who are, you know,

1079
00:57:38,200 --> 00:57:41,040
Speaker 2: murdering all these civilians and invading other countries.

1080
00:57:42,120 --> 00:57:43,720
Speaker 1: It feels like something we should be able to get

1081
00:57:43,760 --> 00:57:45,640
Speaker 1: behind generally as a cause.

1082
00:57:46,000 --> 00:57:49,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, you got anything you want to plug here?

1083
00:57:49,440 --> 00:57:52,480
Speaker 1: At the end. Yeah, I mentioned Ukrainian groups you can

1084
00:57:52,480 --> 00:57:55,360
Speaker 1: support in the last Personally, I'm trying to finish a

1085
00:57:55,480 --> 00:58:00,240
Speaker 1: documentary about Israel's war on the un organization UNRUH, which

1086
00:58:00,280 --> 00:58:03,480
Speaker 1: is responsible for five point nine Palace City and refugees.

1087
00:58:03,880 --> 00:58:05,840
Speaker 1: If you want to help out that, you can find

1088
00:58:05,880 --> 00:58:10,040
Speaker 1: out more by looking at the War on unra on Instagram,

1089
00:58:10,480 --> 00:58:12,680
Speaker 1: and you can check out what I've given kind of

1090
00:58:12,720 --> 00:58:14,800
Speaker 1: the last two years of my life to fuck.

1091
00:58:14,680 --> 00:58:17,200
Speaker 2: You, and I will say in a weird way. This

1092
00:58:17,280 --> 00:58:20,840
Speaker 2: episode was brought to you by the podcast Bad Oligarchs

1093
00:58:21,320 --> 00:58:27,760
Speaker 2: sad Oligarchs, sad Oligarchs singular oligarch sad Oligarch. People do

1094
00:58:27,800 --> 00:58:30,520
Speaker 2: this to my show title all the time, all the time. Yeah,

1095
00:58:30,720 --> 00:58:34,600
Speaker 2: But I like that podcast, and I was listening to

1096
00:58:34,640 --> 00:58:35,840
Speaker 2: it and I was like, I want to talk about

1097
00:58:35,840 --> 00:58:37,520
Speaker 2: some true crime in Russia, but I want to talk

1098
00:58:37,560 --> 00:58:40,480
Speaker 2: about it of cyberpunks fucking up poodin.

1099
00:58:41,480 --> 00:58:43,680
Speaker 1: All right, we'll see you all next week.

1100
00:58:44,240 --> 00:58:50,160
Speaker 2: Bye.

1101
00:58:51,240 --> 00:58:53,720
Speaker 1: Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff is a production of

1102
00:58:53,760 --> 00:58:54,720
Speaker 1: cool Zone Media.

1103
00:58:55,080 --> 00:58:58,400
Speaker 2: A more podcasts on cool Zone Media, visit our website cool.

1104
00:58:58,280 --> 00:59:00,960
Speaker 1: Zonemedia dot com, or check us out on the five

1105
00:59:01,000 --> 00:59:04,600
Speaker 1: heard radio app Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

1106
00:59:08,720 --> 00:59:09,160
Speaker 1: Mm hmm