1 00:00:15,356 --> 00:00:21,876 Speaker 1: Bushkin. The greatest game of basketball anyone has ever played 2 00:00:22,556 --> 00:00:26,276 Speaker 1: was in Hershey, Pennsylvania, March second, nineteen. 3 00:00:25,996 --> 00:00:29,276 Speaker 2: Sixty two, and everybody's thinking out on his work. 4 00:00:29,316 --> 00:00:31,356 Speaker 3: God, I got he's got sixty nine gone at here's 5 00:00:31,396 --> 00:00:31,756 Speaker 3: the past. 6 00:00:32,356 --> 00:00:33,396 Speaker 4: He's got another. 7 00:00:34,716 --> 00:00:38,476 Speaker 1: Cold, rainy night. Just over four thousand people in the stands. 8 00:00:38,996 --> 00:00:40,996 Speaker 1: Philadelphia Warriors versus. 9 00:00:40,676 --> 00:00:44,556 Speaker 4: The New York Knicks have a good shot. They're taking it, 10 00:00:44,596 --> 00:00:46,316 Speaker 4: but mostly they're setting up the big man. 11 00:00:47,396 --> 00:00:49,916 Speaker 1: The star of the Warriors was a man named Wilt Chamberlain. 12 00:00:50,196 --> 00:00:53,036 Speaker 1: No doubt you've heard of him, seven foot one, two 13 00:00:53,116 --> 00:00:57,116 Speaker 1: hundred and seventy five pounds. For sheer physical presence, there 14 00:00:57,156 --> 00:01:01,036 Speaker 1: has probably never been anyone like Willed. There are lots 15 00:01:01,076 --> 00:01:03,836 Speaker 1: of seven footers who play basketball who are basically on 16 00:01:03,876 --> 00:01:07,196 Speaker 1: the court purely because they're seven feet tall. They're clumsy 17 00:01:07,236 --> 00:01:11,276 Speaker 1: and ungainly. Chamberlain, it was not like that. He was 18 00:01:11,316 --> 00:01:13,396 Speaker 1: as big as an oak tree and as graceful as 19 00:01:13,396 --> 00:01:17,356 Speaker 1: a ballet dancer. That season nineteen sixty one to nineteen 20 00:01:17,396 --> 00:01:20,676 Speaker 1: sixty two, he ended up averaging more than fifty points 21 00:01:20,716 --> 00:01:29,396 Speaker 1: a game. That record will never be broken. So March second, 22 00:01:29,916 --> 00:01:32,676 Speaker 1: Wilt was hungover. He'd been out all night with a 23 00:01:32,676 --> 00:01:35,956 Speaker 1: woman he picked up at a bar. That's classic Will too. 24 00:01:36,316 --> 00:01:38,956 Speaker 1: He would later claim to have slept with twenty thousand 25 00:01:39,076 --> 00:01:41,636 Speaker 1: women in his life. And when he said that, lots 26 00:01:41,636 --> 00:01:43,276 Speaker 1: of people did the math and said there was no 27 00:01:43,356 --> 00:01:45,356 Speaker 1: way that was possible, given the fact that they were 28 00:01:45,356 --> 00:01:47,556 Speaker 1: only twenty four hours in a day and will only 29 00:01:47,556 --> 00:01:49,956 Speaker 1: live to the age of sixty three. But even the 30 00:01:49,956 --> 00:01:53,396 Speaker 1: skeptics were like, well, maybe it's ten thousand or eight thousand. 31 00:01:53,676 --> 00:01:56,636 Speaker 1: It was an argument over whether it was an unbelievably 32 00:01:56,716 --> 00:01:59,836 Speaker 1: high number or merely an incredibly high number. 33 00:02:06,756 --> 00:02:08,836 Speaker 2: The big Man over the Warriors and the big man 34 00:02:08,836 --> 00:02:10,556 Speaker 2: in the he has ninety two points. 35 00:02:11,196 --> 00:02:13,676 Speaker 4: Jaron, make sure my. 36 00:02:13,716 --> 00:02:17,836 Speaker 1: Name is Malcolm Gladwell. You're listening to Revisionist History, where 37 00:02:17,836 --> 00:02:21,276 Speaker 1: every week we re examine the forgotten and the misunderstood. 38 00:02:27,556 --> 00:02:31,436 Speaker 1: This week's episode is about Wilt Chamberlain's most famous game. 39 00:02:32,596 --> 00:02:39,436 Speaker 4: Work's got the ball, he's gone up, he shoots, So. 40 00:02:39,436 --> 00:02:42,996 Speaker 1: Back to the game in question. Chamberlain makes his first 41 00:02:43,036 --> 00:02:45,316 Speaker 1: five shots and has twenty three points at the end 42 00:02:45,356 --> 00:02:49,036 Speaker 1: of the first quarter. At halftime, he has forty one points. 43 00:02:49,756 --> 00:02:52,956 Speaker 1: No one's thinking history just yet. But then by the 44 00:02:53,076 --> 00:02:55,676 Speaker 1: end of the third quarter, he has sixty nine points, 45 00:02:55,956 --> 00:03:00,196 Speaker 1: and he keeps going and going and going. He shoots 46 00:03:00,196 --> 00:03:02,276 Speaker 1: put it out the reason Luck and Bill. 47 00:03:02,476 --> 00:03:03,916 Speaker 3: K so Rockwick in the chamber. 48 00:03:09,636 --> 00:03:13,636 Speaker 1: A hundred points, the most anyone has ever scored in 49 00:03:13,676 --> 00:03:17,356 Speaker 1: a professional basketball game. And here's the most incredible thing 50 00:03:17,396 --> 00:03:24,116 Speaker 1: about it. He shot brilliantly from the foul liney or 51 00:03:24,156 --> 00:03:27,876 Speaker 1: thirty two Ye. That's Rick Berry speaking. He was a 52 00:03:27,916 --> 00:03:32,276 Speaker 1: contemporary of Chamberlain's, also a Hall of Famer, an absolutely 53 00:03:32,356 --> 00:03:35,636 Speaker 1: unstoppable scorer. I met him at his condo in South 54 00:03:35,636 --> 00:03:37,716 Speaker 1: Carolina where he lives part of the year, so we 55 00:03:37,756 --> 00:03:40,596 Speaker 1: can follow his son, Canyon, who plays basketball for the 56 00:03:40,596 --> 00:03:44,796 Speaker 1: College of Charleston. Barry is seventy two, six foot eight 57 00:03:44,876 --> 00:03:47,956 Speaker 1: inches tall, barrel chest, legs that looked like he had 58 00:03:47,956 --> 00:03:51,196 Speaker 1: special extensions put on them, and that thing that great 59 00:03:51,236 --> 00:03:53,876 Speaker 1: athletes have and never seem to lose, which is that 60 00:03:53,916 --> 00:03:56,556 Speaker 1: they kind of glide across the floor like they have 61 00:03:56,596 --> 00:04:00,436 Speaker 1: wheels on. A big part of this episode is about Barry, 62 00:04:00,796 --> 00:04:03,476 Speaker 1: but other people too, because although this sounds like it's 63 00:04:03,516 --> 00:04:06,356 Speaker 1: going to be a show about basketball, the truth is 64 00:04:06,636 --> 00:04:09,516 Speaker 1: it's not. It's a show about good Eyedea. He is 65 00:04:09,916 --> 00:04:13,876 Speaker 1: and why they have such difficulties spreading. But for the moment, 66 00:04:14,676 --> 00:04:20,676 Speaker 1: back to Wilt Chamberlain. Chamberlain next, He's made twenty eight 67 00:04:20,756 --> 00:04:23,436 Speaker 1: out of his thirty two shots from the free throw line, 68 00:04:23,916 --> 00:04:27,996 Speaker 1: eighty seven point five percent. The reason that's incredible is 69 00:04:28,036 --> 00:04:30,796 Speaker 1: that when Chamberlain came into the NBA, he was a 70 00:04:30,876 --> 00:04:34,916 Speaker 1: horrendous free throw shooter. Though worst. Here was a man 71 00:04:35,036 --> 00:04:38,916 Speaker 1: who could excel at virtually every physical feat under the sun, 72 00:04:39,196 --> 00:04:42,676 Speaker 1: who could score at will with two and sometimes three 73 00:04:42,716 --> 00:04:46,236 Speaker 1: defenders draped all over his body, but put him all 74 00:04:46,276 --> 00:04:49,676 Speaker 1: alone fifteen feet from the basket, and he was hopeless. 75 00:04:50,436 --> 00:04:53,676 Speaker 1: He was shooting forty percent from the free throw line. 76 00:04:53,996 --> 00:04:59,996 Speaker 1: That's terrible. But this season Chamberlain changes tactics. He starts 77 00:05:00,076 --> 00:05:03,836 Speaker 1: to shoot his foul shots underhanded. He doesn't release the 78 00:05:03,876 --> 00:05:06,796 Speaker 1: ball up by his forehead. He holds the ball between 79 00:05:06,836 --> 00:05:10,036 Speaker 1: his knees and flicks it towards the basket from a 80 00:05:10,036 --> 00:05:13,556 Speaker 1: slight crouch, and all of a sudden, he's a pretty 81 00:05:13,556 --> 00:05:16,356 Speaker 1: good free throw shooter. He gets up to more than 82 00:05:16,396 --> 00:05:20,916 Speaker 1: sixty percent, and that special night in Hershey, Pennsylvania, he's 83 00:05:20,916 --> 00:05:22,236 Speaker 1: an incredible free. 84 00:05:21,996 --> 00:05:24,316 Speaker 3: Throw shooter on the line. 85 00:05:24,396 --> 00:05:27,516 Speaker 1: Pal shot up in the area is eighty four. He 86 00:05:27,596 --> 00:05:31,476 Speaker 1: makes twenty eight free throws, the most anyone has ever 87 00:05:31,556 --> 00:05:35,916 Speaker 1: made in NBA history. What Rick Barry will tell you 88 00:05:36,156 --> 00:05:38,876 Speaker 1: is that shooting underhanded is simply a better way to 89 00:05:38,916 --> 00:05:41,996 Speaker 1: make foul shots. And he knows that because he was 90 00:05:42,036 --> 00:05:44,636 Speaker 1: one of the greatest foul shooters of all time, maybe 91 00:05:44,716 --> 00:05:45,356 Speaker 1: the greatest. 92 00:05:45,596 --> 00:05:48,436 Speaker 4: I missed ten in one season and nine in another 93 00:05:49,276 --> 00:05:50,036 Speaker 4: and the whole season. 94 00:05:50,596 --> 00:05:53,636 Speaker 1: To put that in perspective, Lebron James, the greatest player 95 00:05:53,676 --> 00:05:57,116 Speaker 1: of the current basketball generation, typically misses about one hundred 96 00:05:57,156 --> 00:06:00,356 Speaker 1: and fifty free throws a season. Rick Barry would miss 97 00:06:00,476 --> 00:06:01,076 Speaker 1: nine or ten. 98 00:06:01,476 --> 00:06:03,516 Speaker 4: I think I shot ninety three five or something in 99 00:06:03,596 --> 00:06:05,236 Speaker 4: ninety four to seven, something like that. 100 00:06:05,316 --> 00:06:07,756 Speaker 1: And Rick Berry only shot underhanded. 101 00:06:07,916 --> 00:06:11,876 Speaker 4: From a physics standpoint, it's a much better way to shoot. 102 00:06:12,236 --> 00:06:14,516 Speaker 4: Less things that can go wrong, Less things that you 103 00:06:14,596 --> 00:06:16,796 Speaker 4: have to worry about repeating properly in order for it 104 00:06:16,836 --> 00:06:18,996 Speaker 4: to be successful. But the other thing is is that 105 00:06:19,036 --> 00:06:22,796 Speaker 4: who walks around like this hand This is not a 106 00:06:22,876 --> 00:06:26,036 Speaker 4: natural position when I shoot underhanded free throws. Where are 107 00:06:26,076 --> 00:06:29,876 Speaker 4: my arms hanging straight down the way they are normally? 108 00:06:30,836 --> 00:06:33,836 Speaker 4: And so I'm totally completely relaxed. It's not in the 109 00:06:33,876 --> 00:06:35,956 Speaker 4: situation where I have to worry about my muscles getting 110 00:06:35,956 --> 00:06:38,796 Speaker 4: tense or tight. And then the shot itself, it's a 111 00:06:39,236 --> 00:06:42,036 Speaker 4: softer shot. So many of my shots, even if they're 112 00:06:42,036 --> 00:06:43,956 Speaker 4: a little off, they hit so nice and soft, and 113 00:06:43,956 --> 00:06:47,676 Speaker 4: they'll still fall in the much softer touch, and so 114 00:06:47,716 --> 00:06:50,396 Speaker 4: you have a little bit more margin for error. Some 115 00:06:50,436 --> 00:06:52,916 Speaker 4: of those shots that are a little bit offline have 116 00:06:52,996 --> 00:06:55,476 Speaker 4: a much better opportunity of going into the basket than 117 00:06:55,476 --> 00:06:56,396 Speaker 4: when you shoot overhand. 118 00:06:57,036 --> 00:07:00,596 Speaker 1: So Wilt Chamberlain switches to a better shooting technique. It 119 00:07:00,676 --> 00:07:04,676 Speaker 1: pays off. In the greatest basketball game ever played. He's 120 00:07:04,716 --> 00:07:07,796 Speaker 1: playing the way that Rick Berry proved basketball players ought 121 00:07:07,796 --> 00:07:14,996 Speaker 1: to play. Then something incredible happens. Well, Chamberlain stops shooting underhanded, 122 00:07:15,516 --> 00:07:18,436 Speaker 1: and he goes back to being a terrible foul shooter. 123 00:07:27,396 --> 00:07:30,236 Speaker 1: Let's think about what he did for a moment. Chamberlain 124 00:07:30,316 --> 00:07:34,356 Speaker 1: had a problem, he tested out a possible solution, the 125 00:07:34,396 --> 00:07:37,436 Speaker 1: solution worked, and all of a sudden, he's fixed his 126 00:07:37,476 --> 00:07:41,116 Speaker 1: biggest weakness as a player. This is not a trivial matter. 127 00:07:41,436 --> 00:07:44,076 Speaker 1: If you're a basketball player and you can't hit your 128 00:07:44,116 --> 00:07:48,076 Speaker 1: free throws, you're an incredible liability to your team, particularly 129 00:07:48,156 --> 00:07:51,076 Speaker 1: at the end of close games. The other side simply 130 00:07:51,116 --> 00:07:53,596 Speaker 1: fouls you every time you touch the ball because they 131 00:07:53,636 --> 00:07:55,516 Speaker 1: know you'll miss your free throw and they'll get the 132 00:07:55,556 --> 00:07:58,676 Speaker 1: ball back. If you can't hit your foul shots, it 133 00:07:58,756 --> 00:08:01,596 Speaker 1: means you can't be used in a tight game. You 134 00:08:01,676 --> 00:08:04,916 Speaker 1: know what Chamberlain's coach said to him, if you were 135 00:08:04,916 --> 00:08:09,396 Speaker 1: a ninety percent shooter, we might never lose. You got 136 00:08:09,436 --> 00:08:10,156 Speaker 1: to know him quite well. 137 00:08:10,196 --> 00:08:10,796 Speaker 4: I got to know him. 138 00:08:10,796 --> 00:08:10,996 Speaker 3: You don't. 139 00:08:11,516 --> 00:08:14,716 Speaker 4: I just joked with him. You said your technique was terrible. 140 00:08:14,756 --> 00:08:16,556 Speaker 4: I mean, but I mean had you stuck with it, 141 00:08:17,356 --> 00:08:18,876 Speaker 4: I mean, there's no tell him what he would have done. 142 00:08:18,916 --> 00:08:20,436 Speaker 4: I mean, the numbers he would have put up would 143 00:08:20,436 --> 00:08:22,996 Speaker 4: have been insane because the only way they defended him 144 00:08:22,996 --> 00:08:23,556 Speaker 4: was the fallom. 145 00:08:24,116 --> 00:08:28,156 Speaker 1: Chamberlain had every incentive in the world to keep shooting 146 00:08:28,276 --> 00:08:33,036 Speaker 1: free throws underhanded, and he didn't. I think we understand 147 00:08:33,076 --> 00:08:35,356 Speaker 1: cases where people don't do what they ought to do 148 00:08:35,396 --> 00:08:39,316 Speaker 1: because of ignorance. This is not that this is doing 149 00:08:39,356 --> 00:08:42,676 Speaker 1: something dumb, even though you are fully aware that you're 150 00:08:42,716 --> 00:08:46,556 Speaker 1: doing something dumb. By the way, there have been countless 151 00:08:46,556 --> 00:08:51,356 Speaker 1: players like Chamberlain, players who could have been transcendent, devastating 152 00:08:51,716 --> 00:08:54,436 Speaker 1: if only they had been open to taking foul shots 153 00:08:54,476 --> 00:08:58,916 Speaker 1: a different way. Take Shaquille O'Neal up there with Will Chamberlain. 154 00:08:58,996 --> 00:09:01,436 Speaker 1: Is one of the greatest NBA centers of all time, 155 00:09:01,876 --> 00:09:06,316 Speaker 1: but an absolutely horrendous free throw shooter. Barry tried to 156 00:09:06,356 --> 00:09:07,236 Speaker 1: reason with him once. 157 00:09:07,836 --> 00:09:09,676 Speaker 4: Oh, you actually talked to shit. I tried to get 158 00:09:09,716 --> 00:09:12,316 Speaker 4: Shack to change, and I try to get him done. 159 00:09:12,356 --> 00:09:15,396 Speaker 4: He said, forget, I'd rather shoot zero than shoot underhanded. 160 00:09:15,476 --> 00:09:16,996 Speaker 1: And I'm just fascinated by that. 161 00:09:17,116 --> 00:09:18,076 Speaker 4: I don't understand it. 162 00:09:18,636 --> 00:09:18,836 Speaker 3: Yeah. 163 00:09:18,916 --> 00:09:20,956 Speaker 4: No, The difference is if Shaq was an eighty percent 164 00:09:20,996 --> 00:09:24,156 Speaker 4: free throw shooter, he becomes the go to guy on 165 00:09:24,316 --> 00:09:28,236 Speaker 4: the court as opposed to go to the bench guy. 166 00:09:28,716 --> 00:09:30,516 Speaker 4: You change the dynamic of the game. 167 00:09:31,236 --> 00:09:35,036 Speaker 1: No one shoots underhanded. Not even Barry's teammates followed his lead, 168 00:09:35,556 --> 00:09:37,676 Speaker 1: people who saw him shoot that way every day and 169 00:09:37,756 --> 00:09:38,876 Speaker 1: never miss one. 170 00:09:38,916 --> 00:09:39,156 Speaker 3: Guy. 171 00:09:39,676 --> 00:09:42,716 Speaker 4: Only George Johnson, my teammate with the Warriors, he was 172 00:09:42,756 --> 00:09:44,756 Speaker 4: I think he was like forty eight fifty percent something 173 00:09:44,796 --> 00:09:46,436 Speaker 4: like that, and I worked with him for one season. 174 00:09:46,436 --> 00:09:47,836 Speaker 4: I didn't get to stay with him. He didn't get 175 00:09:47,836 --> 00:09:50,196 Speaker 4: the technique down as much as I'd like it, But 176 00:09:50,236 --> 00:09:52,236 Speaker 4: I think eventually, a season or two later, I think 177 00:09:52,276 --> 00:09:54,636 Speaker 4: George actually shot eighty percent. I can actually look it 178 00:09:54,716 --> 00:09:56,236 Speaker 4: up and be interesting to see what he did. I'll 179 00:09:56,236 --> 00:10:02,436 Speaker 4: get George Johnson's stats here everything George Johnson's stats. Okay, 180 00:10:03,876 --> 00:10:09,996 Speaker 4: stats for George Johnson NBA are George. 181 00:10:09,796 --> 00:10:12,796 Speaker 1: Johnson's stats from the twenty fifteen NFL season. 182 00:10:13,196 --> 00:10:17,436 Speaker 4: NFL wrong guy, wrong season, I mean, but anyway, we'll 183 00:10:17,436 --> 00:10:19,116 Speaker 4: look it up. It's interesting, I think. 184 00:10:19,196 --> 00:10:21,516 Speaker 1: But what about your on your high school team? 185 00:10:21,556 --> 00:10:22,556 Speaker 5: Did anyone follow Oh? 186 00:10:22,596 --> 00:10:25,676 Speaker 4: No, nobody. I've only had one guy ever come to me. 187 00:10:25,716 --> 00:10:27,396 Speaker 4: An NBA guy came to me. I'm will tell you 188 00:10:27,476 --> 00:10:29,396 Speaker 4: his name, but he came to me. He asked me 189 00:10:29,436 --> 00:10:31,156 Speaker 4: to work with him. I did it. I worked with him. 190 00:10:31,196 --> 00:10:33,476 Speaker 4: I had him shooting really well, and he never had 191 00:10:33,556 --> 00:10:36,076 Speaker 4: the nerve to go back and do it. You want 192 00:10:36,076 --> 00:10:38,836 Speaker 4: to talk his name, it's not it's fair to him. 193 00:10:39,356 --> 00:10:41,996 Speaker 1: I don't want to say his name. It's not fair 194 00:10:41,996 --> 00:10:45,316 Speaker 1: to him, like it's some kind of dark, shameful secret. 195 00:10:46,156 --> 00:10:49,476 Speaker 1: College basketball is no different. Out of the thousands of 196 00:10:49,556 --> 00:10:54,196 Speaker 1: college basketball players today, there are just two who shoot underhanded. 197 00:10:54,836 --> 00:10:57,636 Speaker 1: One is a Nigerian American who plays for Louisville called 198 00:10:57,676 --> 00:11:01,876 Speaker 1: Chinanu Anuaku. The other is Kenyon Barry, who plays for 199 00:11:01,916 --> 00:11:04,716 Speaker 1: the College of Charleston, and who, in case he missed 200 00:11:04,716 --> 00:11:08,316 Speaker 1: this earlier, happens to be Rick Barry's son. In other words, 201 00:11:08,556 --> 00:11:11,236 Speaker 1: there are only two conditions under which people will try 202 00:11:11,236 --> 00:11:14,236 Speaker 1: the underhanded free throw, one if their family is from 203 00:11:14,276 --> 00:11:19,956 Speaker 1: another continent, and two if they're an offspring of Rick Berry. 204 00:11:20,716 --> 00:11:22,876 Speaker 3: Anyway, do you want to just quickly describe where we 205 00:11:22,916 --> 00:11:23,636 Speaker 3: are and what we're doing. 206 00:11:23,796 --> 00:11:26,996 Speaker 1: That's my producer, Jacob Smith. He hung out with some 207 00:11:27,036 --> 00:11:30,836 Speaker 1: players on the Columbia University women's basketball team and tried 208 00:11:30,876 --> 00:11:34,556 Speaker 1: to get them to shoot underhanded. Our theory was, maybe 209 00:11:34,556 --> 00:11:37,636 Speaker 1: this is just a dumb man's thing. Maybe women are 210 00:11:37,636 --> 00:11:39,116 Speaker 1: more rational when they're on the court. 211 00:11:39,436 --> 00:11:42,956 Speaker 3: So we are in Columbia's basketball gym and we are 212 00:11:42,996 --> 00:11:49,116 Speaker 3: going to compare overhand shooting to underhand shooting. Hey, here 213 00:11:49,116 --> 00:11:49,436 Speaker 3: he goes. 214 00:11:49,796 --> 00:11:52,956 Speaker 1: That's er Talkov, a junior in the team. She missed 215 00:11:52,996 --> 00:11:53,636 Speaker 1: her first try. 216 00:11:54,036 --> 00:11:55,156 Speaker 2: I feel like you could bend in the kne a 217 00:11:55,156 --> 00:11:56,036 Speaker 2: little more on that that. 218 00:11:58,836 --> 00:12:01,516 Speaker 1: Then she makes the next two shots, her first two 219 00:12:01,676 --> 00:12:05,396 Speaker 1: ever shooting underhanded. But Jacob couldn't get any of the 220 00:12:05,396 --> 00:12:08,996 Speaker 1: Columbia players interested in switching over. Here's Sarah Mead, senior 221 00:12:09,156 --> 00:12:09,636 Speaker 1: point guard. 222 00:12:09,956 --> 00:12:11,996 Speaker 3: Ever since we were young, we were taught to shoot 223 00:12:12,036 --> 00:12:15,116 Speaker 3: it overhand, and you know, as kids, you kind of 224 00:12:15,236 --> 00:12:18,196 Speaker 3: play around with the idea of a granny shot or underhand. 225 00:12:18,236 --> 00:12:20,956 Speaker 3: But yeah, I'm not sure we've ever taken it seriously. 226 00:12:21,756 --> 00:12:24,756 Speaker 1: She calls it a granny shot, a shot used by 227 00:12:24,796 --> 00:12:27,156 Speaker 1: one of the greatest players ever to play the game. 228 00:12:27,796 --> 00:12:31,556 Speaker 1: Women are as bad as men. We like to think 229 00:12:31,596 --> 00:12:34,836 Speaker 1: that good ideas will spread because they're good, because their 230 00:12:34,876 --> 00:12:38,756 Speaker 1: advantages are obvious. But that's not true. So why don't 231 00:12:38,756 --> 00:12:41,836 Speaker 1: they Or to put it another way, what is it 232 00:12:41,836 --> 00:12:44,276 Speaker 1: about Rick Berry that allowed him to shoot this way? 233 00:12:44,436 --> 00:12:46,716 Speaker 1: And what is it about Wilt Chamberlain and all the 234 00:12:46,756 --> 00:12:53,436 Speaker 1: others that stands in their way? Let me try out 235 00:12:53,436 --> 00:12:57,156 Speaker 1: a theory on you. It's from a sociologist named Mark Granovetter. 236 00:12:57,716 --> 00:13:00,796 Speaker 1: Granavetter is one of the greatest social theorists of his generation. 237 00:13:01,196 --> 00:13:04,076 Speaker 1: If you're an academic groupie like I am, Granavetter is 238 00:13:04,116 --> 00:13:07,716 Speaker 1: like James Dean. So Granoveter came up with something called 239 00:13:07,756 --> 00:13:11,716 Speaker 1: the threshold model of collective behavior. He was trying to 240 00:13:11,756 --> 00:13:14,756 Speaker 1: answer the question of why people do things out of character. 241 00:13:15,316 --> 00:13:18,516 Speaker 1: Use riots as his big example, why do otherwise law 242 00:13:18,516 --> 00:13:24,916 Speaker 1: abiding citizens suddenly throw rocks through windows? Before Granavetter came along, 243 00:13:25,196 --> 00:13:28,916 Speaker 1: sociologists tried to explain that kind of puzzling behavior in 244 00:13:29,036 --> 00:13:33,156 Speaker 1: terms of beliefs. So the thinking went, you and I 245 00:13:33,196 --> 00:13:35,556 Speaker 1: have a set of beliefs, but when you throw the 246 00:13:35,636 --> 00:13:39,076 Speaker 1: rock through the window, something powerful must have happened in 247 00:13:39,116 --> 00:13:43,196 Speaker 1: the moment to change your beliefs. Something about the crowd 248 00:13:43,756 --> 00:13:49,996 Speaker 1: transforms the way you think. Here's Granavetter explaining that idea. 249 00:13:50,276 --> 00:13:53,156 Speaker 5: There was a lot of intellectual tradition that said that 250 00:13:53,196 --> 00:13:56,916 Speaker 5: when people got into a crowd, their independent judgment went 251 00:13:56,956 --> 00:13:59,356 Speaker 5: out the window, and that they somehow became creatures of 252 00:13:59,396 --> 00:14:02,956 Speaker 5: the crowd, and that there was some kind of I 253 00:14:02,956 --> 00:14:06,156 Speaker 5: don't know, miasma of irrationality would settle over people and 254 00:14:06,196 --> 00:14:07,916 Speaker 5: they would act in ways that they would never act 255 00:14:07,956 --> 00:14:10,236 Speaker 5: if they were by themselves or they weren't influenced by 256 00:14:10,316 --> 00:14:11,756 Speaker 5: the mob mentality. 257 00:14:12,236 --> 00:14:15,116 Speaker 1: But Granna Better doesn't buy it. He doesn't think that 258 00:14:15,236 --> 00:14:17,676 Speaker 1: being part of the mob casts some kind of spell 259 00:14:17,756 --> 00:14:21,156 Speaker 1: that makes everyone irrational. To his mind, it's much more 260 00:14:21,196 --> 00:14:22,596 Speaker 1: subtle and complicated. 261 00:14:22,676 --> 00:14:22,956 Speaker 3: Than that. 262 00:14:23,236 --> 00:14:26,156 Speaker 5: People are pretty much who they are, But if the 263 00:14:26,196 --> 00:14:31,156 Speaker 5: situation develops in a certain way, then there's a domino effect. 264 00:14:31,436 --> 00:14:33,556 Speaker 5: Some people are activated and that activates other people in 265 00:14:33,556 --> 00:14:35,876 Speaker 5: that activates other people, and it all happens so fast. 266 00:14:36,196 --> 00:14:39,756 Speaker 1: Granaveetter says that the issue isn't about people having beliefs 267 00:14:39,756 --> 00:14:43,196 Speaker 1: about what's right and then suddenly losing those beliefs because 268 00:14:43,236 --> 00:14:49,596 Speaker 1: they're in a mob. The issue is about thresholds. Now, 269 00:14:49,596 --> 00:14:53,316 Speaker 1: what does Granaveetter mean by that word threshold? A belief 270 00:14:53,596 --> 00:14:56,556 Speaker 1: is an internal thing. It's a position we've taken in 271 00:14:56,596 --> 00:15:00,356 Speaker 1: our head or in our heart. But unlike beliefs, thresholds 272 00:15:00,356 --> 00:15:04,676 Speaker 1: are external. They're about pure pressure. Your threshold is the 273 00:15:04,796 --> 00:15:07,676 Speaker 1: number of people who have to do something before you 274 00:15:07,796 --> 00:15:11,876 Speaker 1: join in. Granavedterer makes two crucial arguments. The first is 275 00:15:11,876 --> 00:15:15,556 Speaker 1: that thresholds and beliefs sometimes overlap, but a lot of 276 00:15:15,556 --> 00:15:19,036 Speaker 1: the time they don't. When your teenage son is driving 277 00:15:19,036 --> 00:15:21,196 Speaker 1: one hundred miles an hour at midnight with three of 278 00:15:21,236 --> 00:15:24,476 Speaker 1: his friends, it's not because he believes that driving one 279 00:15:24,556 --> 00:15:27,436 Speaker 1: hundred miles an hour is a good idea. In that moment, 280 00:15:27,676 --> 00:15:32,636 Speaker 1: his beliefs are irrelevant. His behavior is guided by his threshold. 281 00:15:33,036 --> 00:15:35,796 Speaker 1: An eighteen year old may be drunk at midnight in 282 00:15:35,876 --> 00:15:39,116 Speaker 1: a car with three of his friends. That person has 283 00:15:39,156 --> 00:15:41,916 Speaker 1: a really low threshold. It doesn't take a lot of 284 00:15:42,076 --> 00:15:47,196 Speaker 1: encouragement to get him to do something stupid. Granavetter's second 285 00:15:47,196 --> 00:15:52,596 Speaker 1: point is just as important. Everyone's threshold is different. There 286 00:15:52,636 --> 00:15:55,356 Speaker 1: are plenty of radicals and troublemakers who might need only 287 00:15:55,476 --> 00:15:59,836 Speaker 1: slight encouragement to throw that rock. Their threshold is really low. 288 00:16:00,396 --> 00:16:03,756 Speaker 1: But think about your grandmother. She might well need her sister, 289 00:16:04,076 --> 00:16:07,916 Speaker 1: her grandchildren, her neighbors, or friends from church, all of 290 00:16:07,956 --> 00:16:09,716 Speaker 1: them to be throwing rocks before or she would even 291 00:16:09,796 --> 00:16:13,796 Speaker 1: dream of joining in. She's got a high threshold. The 292 00:16:13,876 --> 00:16:16,036 Speaker 1: riot has to be going on for a very long 293 00:16:16,076 --> 00:16:18,996 Speaker 1: time and has to involve a whole lot of people 294 00:16:19,036 --> 00:16:23,436 Speaker 1: before Grandma will join in. Granavetter's argument goes on in 295 00:16:23,556 --> 00:16:26,276 Speaker 1: much more detail, all of it fascinating, and I encourage you, 296 00:16:26,316 --> 00:16:28,756 Speaker 1: if you're interested, to look it up online and read 297 00:16:28,756 --> 00:16:32,316 Speaker 1: it because it's beautifully clear. But for the moment, I 298 00:16:32,516 --> 00:16:35,236 Speaker 1: just want to focus on the one big implication of 299 00:16:35,276 --> 00:16:40,716 Speaker 1: Grandavetter's argument. What people believe isn't going to help you much. 300 00:16:40,916 --> 00:16:43,796 Speaker 1: If you want to understand why they try or don't 301 00:16:43,836 --> 00:16:48,476 Speaker 1: try difficult or problematic or strange things. You have to 302 00:16:48,636 --> 00:16:53,356 Speaker 1: understand the social context in which they're operating. Your grandmother's 303 00:16:53,436 --> 00:16:56,476 Speaker 1: belief is that rioting is wrong, but there are times 304 00:16:56,516 --> 00:17:01,676 Speaker 1: when even grandmothers might throw rocks through windows. Granavetter's theory 305 00:17:01,716 --> 00:17:03,996 Speaker 1: explained a lot of things that have been puzzling to me. 306 00:17:04,556 --> 00:17:07,636 Speaker 1: So here's a good example. It's from an interview I 307 00:17:07,636 --> 00:17:09,876 Speaker 1: did at the ninety second Street Wall in New York 308 00:17:10,196 --> 00:17:13,156 Speaker 1: with the economist Richard Thaylor, who's one of the leading 309 00:17:13,236 --> 00:17:16,676 Speaker 1: lights in what's called behavioral economics. He had a book 310 00:17:16,716 --> 00:17:19,756 Speaker 1: coming out called Misbehaving, and I really liked it, and 311 00:17:19,796 --> 00:17:21,076 Speaker 1: we thought it would be fun if we did an 312 00:17:21,076 --> 00:17:25,636 Speaker 1: event together. You and I have met before. The first 313 00:17:25,676 --> 00:17:29,236 Speaker 1: time we met was at a hotel bar in Rochester, Yes, 314 00:17:29,516 --> 00:17:32,356 Speaker 1: the only time I've ever Faylor is the kind of 315 00:17:32,356 --> 00:17:35,916 Speaker 1: guy who's interested in everything, including sports, and there was 316 00:17:35,956 --> 00:17:38,796 Speaker 1: a point in our conversation when he started to talk 317 00:17:38,836 --> 00:17:42,236 Speaker 1: about the fact that the owners of professional football teams 318 00:17:42,516 --> 00:17:46,556 Speaker 1: do things on occasion that are really stupid and inexplicable. 319 00:17:47,716 --> 00:17:51,036 Speaker 1: Take the professional football draft. For those of you who 320 00:17:51,076 --> 00:17:54,436 Speaker 1: are not football fans. Let me explain. Every year, all 321 00:17:54,516 --> 00:17:57,716 Speaker 1: the draft eligible college football players are thrown into a 322 00:17:57,756 --> 00:18:01,916 Speaker 1: big pool, and the thirty two professional football teams pick 323 00:18:01,996 --> 00:18:05,196 Speaker 1: the players they want one by one. The first player 324 00:18:05,236 --> 00:18:06,916 Speaker 1: taken as the one that people think will be the 325 00:18:06,916 --> 00:18:10,156 Speaker 1: best professional player. That person gets it's the biggest salary. 326 00:18:10,516 --> 00:18:13,076 Speaker 1: The second player taken is the one predicted to be 327 00:18:13,116 --> 00:18:16,636 Speaker 1: the second best professional player, and so on. And after 328 00:18:16,716 --> 00:18:19,836 Speaker 1: every team has picked one player each, they all start 329 00:18:19,876 --> 00:18:23,596 Speaker 1: again and do another round. Because the players selected in 330 00:18:23,676 --> 00:18:26,756 Speaker 1: the first round are considered the most valuable, all the 331 00:18:26,756 --> 00:18:30,276 Speaker 1: teams fight over them. They pay enormous sums of money 332 00:18:30,276 --> 00:18:33,796 Speaker 1: and construct elaborate deals to try and acquire those high 333 00:18:33,836 --> 00:18:34,596 Speaker 1: draft picks. 334 00:18:34,996 --> 00:18:39,036 Speaker 2: The interesting thing about that is there's a market for picks, 335 00:18:39,876 --> 00:18:44,636 Speaker 2: so you can trade the first pick for say, half 336 00:18:44,676 --> 00:18:49,356 Speaker 2: a dozen second round picks. That's what the market says. Now, 337 00:18:49,716 --> 00:18:54,756 Speaker 2: that implies that the first pick is five times more 338 00:18:54,916 --> 00:18:58,316 Speaker 2: valuable than an early pick in the second round. 339 00:18:58,516 --> 00:19:01,316 Speaker 1: Filer in a colleague named Kade Massey decide to analyze 340 00:19:01,316 --> 00:19:04,916 Speaker 1: this assumption. Was it really true that a first round 341 00:19:04,916 --> 00:19:07,436 Speaker 1: pick was worth half a dozen second round. 342 00:19:07,276 --> 00:19:11,556 Speaker 2: Picks if you compute the surplus a player provides to 343 00:19:11,596 --> 00:19:18,196 Speaker 2: his team, meaning how good his performance is minus how 344 00:19:18,276 --> 00:19:21,236 Speaker 2: much you have to pay him. What we found is 345 00:19:21,436 --> 00:19:25,716 Speaker 2: these second round picks are actually more valuable than that 346 00:19:25,836 --> 00:19:28,476 Speaker 2: first pick, but you could get five of those for 347 00:19:28,556 --> 00:19:31,956 Speaker 2: that pick. It's the biggest anomaly I've ever found. 348 00:19:33,316 --> 00:19:35,956 Speaker 1: The implication of Taylor in Massey's work is that teams 349 00:19:35,996 --> 00:19:39,596 Speaker 1: should trade away their first round picks. They should stockpile 350 00:19:39,636 --> 00:19:42,276 Speaker 1: players in the second and third rounds who can be 351 00:19:42,316 --> 00:19:45,916 Speaker 1: paid a lot less and are nearly as good. This 352 00:19:46,076 --> 00:19:49,476 Speaker 1: is how you build a winning football team. So what 353 00:19:49,596 --> 00:19:53,036 Speaker 1: was the reaction of NFL teams to Taylor's idea. Well, 354 00:19:53,276 --> 00:19:55,756 Speaker 1: not long after he and Kate Massey did their research, 355 00:19:56,036 --> 00:19:58,076 Speaker 1: they got a call from the Washington Redskins. 356 00:19:58,276 --> 00:20:03,076 Speaker 2: It was early in Dan Snyder's tenure as owner, and 357 00:20:03,556 --> 00:20:06,876 Speaker 2: I met him and he said, oh, we don't want 358 00:20:06,916 --> 00:20:09,556 Speaker 2: to know about this, and he introduced me. I'm going 359 00:20:09,596 --> 00:20:12,556 Speaker 2: to send my people to see you, and they flew 360 00:20:12,596 --> 00:20:14,836 Speaker 2: out to Chicago. I met with Gad and me and 361 00:20:14,876 --> 00:20:18,236 Speaker 2: we told them what our findings were. And we basically 362 00:20:18,236 --> 00:20:25,756 Speaker 2: have two pieces of advice, trade down and lend picks 363 00:20:25,796 --> 00:20:27,236 Speaker 2: this year for picks next year. 364 00:20:27,996 --> 00:20:30,996 Speaker 1: With that last sentence, Taylor is referring to the second 365 00:20:30,996 --> 00:20:34,916 Speaker 1: thing he and Massy discovered. Owners sometimes trade a pick 366 00:20:34,996 --> 00:20:38,196 Speaker 1: in this year's draft for a pick in some future draft. 367 00:20:38,676 --> 00:20:40,636 Speaker 1: They use a rule of thumb to figure out how 368 00:20:40,676 --> 00:20:42,716 Speaker 1: to value the difference between a player you can use 369 00:20:42,756 --> 00:20:44,916 Speaker 1: this year versus a draft pick you can't use until 370 00:20:44,956 --> 00:20:48,076 Speaker 1: some future year. And Taylor and Massy discover that the 371 00:20:48,156 --> 00:20:52,396 Speaker 1: rule of thumb makes no sense. It's completely irrational. It 372 00:20:52,516 --> 00:20:58,316 Speaker 1: massively overvalues current picks and undervalues future picks. Like a 373 00:20:58,316 --> 00:21:01,196 Speaker 1: good economist, Taylor talks about the value of that rule 374 00:21:01,236 --> 00:21:04,516 Speaker 1: of thumb as an interest rate. It's like borrowing money. 375 00:21:04,796 --> 00:21:07,596 Speaker 2: If you compute the real interest rate, it's one hundred 376 00:21:07,636 --> 00:21:09,116 Speaker 2: and thirty seven percent per year. 377 00:21:09,596 --> 00:21:12,716 Speaker 1: In other words, for the privilege of having a player now, 378 00:21:12,836 --> 00:21:16,036 Speaker 1: as opposed to waiting a year, the owners pay a 379 00:21:16,236 --> 00:21:19,716 Speaker 1: huge premium. They borrow money at one hundred and thirty 380 00:21:19,756 --> 00:21:20,796 Speaker 1: seven percent interest. 381 00:21:21,036 --> 00:21:23,876 Speaker 2: These guys did not get to be billionaires borrowing at 382 00:21:23,876 --> 00:21:26,476 Speaker 2: one hundred and thirty seven percent per year, But that's 383 00:21:26,516 --> 00:21:29,596 Speaker 2: the rule of thumb they use. So anyway, we taught 384 00:21:29,996 --> 00:21:34,156 Speaker 2: his guys Stans guys what to do, and then we 385 00:21:34,236 --> 00:21:37,876 Speaker 2: watched the draft eagerly that year, and they traded up 386 00:21:38,356 --> 00:21:42,716 Speaker 2: and borrowed a picked this year for one next year. 387 00:21:42,756 --> 00:21:43,916 Speaker 2: So okay. 388 00:21:44,236 --> 00:21:47,756 Speaker 1: In other words, the Redskins did the exact opposite of 389 00:21:47,796 --> 00:21:50,916 Speaker 1: what they should have done if they were rational, and 390 00:21:50,956 --> 00:21:53,476 Speaker 1: they weren't the only ones. Dyla and Massi have consulted 391 00:21:53,556 --> 00:21:57,076 Speaker 1: for three NFL franchises now and no one has ever 392 00:21:57,076 --> 00:22:00,836 Speaker 1: followed their advice. It gets worse. There's a very respected 393 00:22:00,876 --> 00:22:04,876 Speaker 1: economist named David Romer who famously proved that football teams 394 00:22:04,916 --> 00:22:07,796 Speaker 1: would win more games if they didn't punt, if they 395 00:22:07,836 --> 00:22:10,316 Speaker 1: simply use all four dens to try and gain ten 396 00:22:10,396 --> 00:22:13,316 Speaker 1: yards as opposed to giving the ball away to their opponents. 397 00:22:14,196 --> 00:22:18,756 Speaker 1: So since Romer published his work, are NFL teams less 398 00:22:18,836 --> 00:22:21,996 Speaker 1: likely to punt on fourth down? You guessed it? 399 00:22:22,716 --> 00:22:26,116 Speaker 2: No to tell you how big this is if you 400 00:22:26,236 --> 00:22:30,476 Speaker 2: did this right, But we think you would win one 401 00:22:30,516 --> 00:22:36,636 Speaker 2: game a year more if you also learned to go 402 00:22:36,716 --> 00:22:39,556 Speaker 2: for it more often on fourth down another game and 403 00:22:39,556 --> 00:22:44,836 Speaker 2: a half. So, just being smart, we win at least 404 00:22:44,836 --> 00:22:46,996 Speaker 2: two games a year on average. 405 00:22:48,916 --> 00:22:53,156 Speaker 1: Two extra wins in a sixteen game season, just by 406 00:22:53,196 --> 00:22:56,676 Speaker 1: acting a little bit differently. Who wouldn't do that? But 407 00:22:56,756 --> 00:23:01,316 Speaker 1: nobody would? Now is that because they're stupid, because they 408 00:23:01,356 --> 00:23:04,676 Speaker 1: have irrational beliefs. That was my first thought when I 409 00:23:04,676 --> 00:23:07,756 Speaker 1: was listening to Theodore talk about his football research. Those 410 00:23:07,836 --> 00:23:11,396 Speaker 1: dumb football owners. But that can't be right. You don't 411 00:23:11,436 --> 00:23:14,676 Speaker 1: get to their level by being dumb. Surely this is 412 00:23:14,716 --> 00:23:19,316 Speaker 1: about thresholds. Football owners and coaches are a small group 413 00:23:19,396 --> 00:23:22,036 Speaker 1: of people. They all know each other, They've all done 414 00:23:22,076 --> 00:23:24,996 Speaker 1: things a certain way for a long time, and doing 415 00:23:25,076 --> 00:23:27,356 Speaker 1: things that way has made them a lot of money. 416 00:23:27,996 --> 00:23:31,516 Speaker 1: They have a high threshold. These are a bunch of grandmothers. 417 00:23:32,276 --> 00:23:34,796 Speaker 1: The only way any of them is going to change 418 00:23:34,836 --> 00:23:38,916 Speaker 1: their behavior is if some radical goes first. And there 419 00:23:38,996 --> 00:23:42,756 Speaker 1: are no radical owners in the NFL. There's just Richard Taylor, 420 00:23:42,836 --> 00:23:45,836 Speaker 1: a geeky, middle aged economist from the University of Chicago 421 00:23:46,076 --> 00:23:48,236 Speaker 1: with a bunch of equations that you need a PhD 422 00:23:48,396 --> 00:23:49,156 Speaker 1: to understand. 423 00:23:50,876 --> 00:23:53,956 Speaker 2: There's some geek at every team who's read our paper. 424 00:23:54,116 --> 00:23:54,316 Speaker 3: You know. 425 00:23:54,716 --> 00:23:59,796 Speaker 2: Think of the Jonah Hill character in the movie Bunny Ball. Yeah, right, 426 00:24:00,516 --> 00:24:02,596 Speaker 2: and nobody pays attention to that guy. 427 00:24:07,436 --> 00:24:10,316 Speaker 1: Apparently there aren't a lot of radical in basketball either, 428 00:24:10,956 --> 00:24:15,036 Speaker 1: just the Berries and Shinano Ouaku, the Nigerian American who 429 00:24:15,036 --> 00:24:19,916 Speaker 1: plays for Louisville, And as it turns out, Mark granavetter. 430 00:24:19,596 --> 00:24:22,316 Speaker 5: When I was a teenager, and this would have been 431 00:24:22,396 --> 00:24:25,156 Speaker 5: mostly in summer camp, because I never really played basketball 432 00:24:25,676 --> 00:24:28,876 Speaker 5: outside of summer camp. But I got to be very 433 00:24:28,916 --> 00:24:33,236 Speaker 5: good at underhand frees throwing. Oh really, yeah, yeah, I 434 00:24:33,276 --> 00:24:34,596 Speaker 5: could make almost every shot. 435 00:24:34,876 --> 00:24:38,196 Speaker 1: I was wrong. There are three conditions under which someone 436 00:24:38,196 --> 00:24:41,156 Speaker 1: will try this shot. One if you're an offspring of 437 00:24:41,196 --> 00:24:44,676 Speaker 1: Rick Berry, two if your family is from another continent, 438 00:24:45,236 --> 00:24:52,476 Speaker 1: and three if you're a world famous sociologist. This, I 439 00:24:52,476 --> 00:24:55,316 Speaker 1: think gets us a little closer to the puzzle of Chamberlain. 440 00:24:56,276 --> 00:24:59,676 Speaker 1: In his autobiography, he has this throwaway comment on the 441 00:24:59,716 --> 00:25:05,476 Speaker 1: subject of shooting underhanded. Chamberlain wrote, I felt silly like 442 00:25:05,516 --> 00:25:09,516 Speaker 1: a sissy shooting underhanded. I know I was wrong. I 443 00:25:09,596 --> 00:25:11,996 Speaker 1: know some of the best foul shooters in history shot 444 00:25:12,036 --> 00:25:14,916 Speaker 1: that way. Even now, the best one in the NBA, 445 00:25:15,116 --> 00:25:20,076 Speaker 1: Rick Berry, shoots underhanded. I just couldn't do it. Two 446 00:25:20,116 --> 00:25:23,916 Speaker 1: key things here. First, he writes, I know I was wrong, 447 00:25:25,036 --> 00:25:28,076 Speaker 1: just as Granavetta would say, it's not Chamberlain's beliefs that 448 00:25:28,116 --> 00:25:31,396 Speaker 1: are getting in the way. He knows it's wrong. Then 449 00:25:32,316 --> 00:25:35,956 Speaker 1: I felt silly like a sissy. Remember the player for 450 00:25:35,996 --> 00:25:39,956 Speaker 1: Columbia who described shooting underhanded as a granny shot. That's 451 00:25:39,956 --> 00:25:43,676 Speaker 1: what Chamberlain's talking about. He is the one who look foolish. 452 00:25:43,916 --> 00:25:46,636 Speaker 1: He's a high threshold guy. He needs everyone to be 453 00:25:46,676 --> 00:25:50,076 Speaker 1: doing something new before he's willing to join in. But 454 00:25:50,236 --> 00:25:56,076 Speaker 1: Rick Berry, he's different. Rick Barry's dad comes to him 455 00:25:56,116 --> 00:25:58,076 Speaker 1: when he's a junior in high school and says, you 456 00:25:58,156 --> 00:26:01,476 Speaker 1: really ought to shoot underhanded. Rick's a pretty good free 457 00:26:01,476 --> 00:26:04,236 Speaker 1: throw shooter at that point, maybe seventy percent or so, 458 00:26:04,516 --> 00:26:06,996 Speaker 1: but his dad tells him he can do better. And 459 00:26:07,036 --> 00:26:09,036 Speaker 1: your initial reaction is I don't want to do it 460 00:26:09,196 --> 00:26:10,836 Speaker 1: right because it seemed to you like. 461 00:26:10,756 --> 00:26:12,356 Speaker 4: A well, I can't do it. I mean, it's with 462 00:26:12,436 --> 00:26:14,436 Speaker 4: the girl. I said that. I always remember it, and 463 00:26:14,476 --> 00:26:16,716 Speaker 4: I tell you, Dad, they're going to make fun of me. 464 00:26:17,356 --> 00:26:19,116 Speaker 4: That's the way the girls shoot. I can't do that, 465 00:26:19,316 --> 00:26:21,836 Speaker 4: said son. And I remember this so clearly, like it 466 00:26:21,876 --> 00:26:26,316 Speaker 4: was yesterday. Son. They can't make fun of you if 467 00:26:26,356 --> 00:26:29,356 Speaker 4: you're making them. And the first game I remember where 468 00:26:29,356 --> 00:26:31,276 Speaker 4: I did it was on the road in scotch Plains, 469 00:26:31,276 --> 00:26:34,236 Speaker 4: New Jersey. I shot the free throw guy in the 470 00:26:34,276 --> 00:26:38,636 Speaker 4: stands yells out, Hey, Barry a big sissy shooting like that, 471 00:26:40,196 --> 00:26:42,596 Speaker 4: and the guy next to him and I heard it 472 00:26:42,716 --> 00:26:44,676 Speaker 4: very clearly, he said, what are you making fun of 473 00:26:44,716 --> 00:26:48,796 Speaker 4: him for? He doesn't miss? So my dad's prophecy came 474 00:26:48,876 --> 00:26:51,276 Speaker 4: true and I was cool from that point forward, So 475 00:26:51,276 --> 00:26:53,636 Speaker 4: I didn't care anymore what they said. If I'm making 476 00:26:53,676 --> 00:26:55,076 Speaker 4: him that's all it really matters. 477 00:26:55,436 --> 00:26:58,836 Speaker 1: What's interesting is that Barry actually has the same initial 478 00:26:58,876 --> 00:27:02,156 Speaker 1: reaction as Wilt Chamberlain. I'm going to look like a sissy. 479 00:27:03,036 --> 00:27:05,716 Speaker 1: But he thinks about it and he decides it doesn't 480 00:27:05,756 --> 00:27:08,676 Speaker 1: bother him, or rather, his drive to be a better 481 00:27:08,676 --> 00:27:11,196 Speaker 1: shooter is stronger than his worry about what others think 482 00:27:11,236 --> 00:27:14,156 Speaker 1: of him. That's exactly what it means to have a 483 00:27:14,156 --> 00:27:17,876 Speaker 1: low threshold. The same mindset that can lead someone to 484 00:27:17,916 --> 00:27:21,076 Speaker 1: do something bad, like a teenager driving drunk with very 485 00:27:21,076 --> 00:27:25,156 Speaker 1: little encouragement, can also lead to brave or innovative behavior. 486 00:27:26,356 --> 00:27:29,076 Speaker 1: If you have a threshold of zero, you're someone who 487 00:27:29,116 --> 00:27:32,076 Speaker 1: doesn't need the support, or the approval or the company 488 00:27:32,116 --> 00:27:35,476 Speaker 1: of otters to do what you think is right. Now 489 00:27:35,516 --> 00:27:38,716 Speaker 1: here's the catch. The person who thinks this way is 490 00:27:38,716 --> 00:27:42,356 Speaker 1: not always easy to be around. Barry was never embraced 491 00:27:42,356 --> 00:27:45,276 Speaker 1: by his fellow players. There were a couple of notorious 492 00:27:45,396 --> 00:27:48,316 Speaker 1: articles about him in the nineteen eighties, full of quotes 493 00:27:48,356 --> 00:27:50,836 Speaker 1: like this from a former teammate. If you'd got to 494 00:27:50,876 --> 00:27:53,156 Speaker 1: know Rick, you'd realize what a good guy he was. 495 00:27:53,796 --> 00:27:55,716 Speaker 1: But around the league they thought of him as the 496 00:27:55,756 --> 00:27:56,756 Speaker 1: most arrogant guy. 497 00:27:56,796 --> 00:27:57,036 Speaker 4: Ever. 498 00:27:57,796 --> 00:28:01,556 Speaker 1: Half the players disliked Rick, the other half hated him. 499 00:28:02,276 --> 00:28:05,996 Speaker 1: Here's another quote. He lacks diplomacy. If they sent him 500 00:28:05,996 --> 00:28:08,356 Speaker 1: to the UN he'd ended up starting World War III. 501 00:28:08,556 --> 00:28:12,236 Speaker 4: Yeah. I was about winning. I was about giving my 502 00:28:12,276 --> 00:28:15,836 Speaker 4: best effort, and I had a very difficult time accepting 503 00:28:15,876 --> 00:28:17,756 Speaker 4: the fact. I wouldn't accept the fact if a teammate 504 00:28:17,836 --> 00:28:19,036 Speaker 4: is not going to play his hardest. 505 00:28:19,556 --> 00:28:21,756 Speaker 1: Barry's been out of the game for more than thirty years, 506 00:28:21,756 --> 00:28:25,436 Speaker 1: but just talking about basketball made him tense. There was 507 00:28:25,476 --> 00:28:28,116 Speaker 1: a right way to play the game, and when people 508 00:28:28,156 --> 00:28:30,996 Speaker 1: didn't play it the right way, it drove him crazy. 509 00:28:31,116 --> 00:28:33,236 Speaker 4: Watch a game, right, guy shoots free throw, misses it, 510 00:28:33,276 --> 00:28:36,196 Speaker 4: everybody goes up, slaps his hand. Where the hell did 511 00:28:36,196 --> 00:28:37,916 Speaker 4: that come from? I want to know who the guy is, 512 00:28:37,916 --> 00:28:40,076 Speaker 4: the guy that started doing that, and who was the 513 00:28:40,196 --> 00:28:42,316 Speaker 4: genius that said, man, that's a great idea, let's go 514 00:28:42,396 --> 00:28:43,996 Speaker 4: up and you know, slap the guy's hand and let's 515 00:28:43,996 --> 00:28:46,156 Speaker 4: go up, disturb his concentration when he's supposed to be 516 00:28:46,196 --> 00:28:48,756 Speaker 4: focusing on shooting his free throws, and worry about having 517 00:28:48,796 --> 00:28:50,236 Speaker 4: to slap the hands of his teammates. 518 00:28:50,396 --> 00:28:53,436 Speaker 1: Do you hear what upsets him? The social part of 519 00:28:53,476 --> 00:28:57,596 Speaker 1: the game, players paying attention to each other's feelings as 520 00:28:57,636 --> 00:28:59,556 Speaker 1: opposed to their own performance. 521 00:28:59,116 --> 00:29:00,676 Speaker 4: Plus the fact if he misses it, you should go 522 00:29:00,716 --> 00:29:02,396 Speaker 4: up and smack him in the head for missing the 523 00:29:02,436 --> 00:29:04,196 Speaker 4: free throw, not slap him on the hands and saying 524 00:29:04,196 --> 00:29:06,636 Speaker 4: it's okay. Because it's not okay. You just cost us 525 00:29:06,636 --> 00:29:09,076 Speaker 4: a point. I mean, I go nuts when I watch 526 00:29:09,236 --> 00:29:11,196 Speaker 4: this kind of stuff and nobody even talks about that, 527 00:29:11,436 --> 00:29:13,996 Speaker 4: and it's something that somebody brought up, somebody copied, and 528 00:29:14,036 --> 00:29:18,036 Speaker 4: now everybody does it, and it's stupid. I just have 529 00:29:18,116 --> 00:29:18,996 Speaker 4: a real problem with that. 530 00:29:19,676 --> 00:29:23,116 Speaker 1: Barry wrote an autobiography in nineteen seventy two called Confessions 531 00:29:23,156 --> 00:29:26,036 Speaker 1: of a Basketball Gypsy, which I have to say is 532 00:29:26,076 --> 00:29:30,036 Speaker 1: one of the strangest autobiographies I've ever read. There are 533 00:29:30,076 --> 00:29:32,716 Speaker 1: sections of the book Barry gives over to various people 534 00:29:32,756 --> 00:29:35,556 Speaker 1: in his life. They each write a few pages, and 535 00:29:35,596 --> 00:29:38,836 Speaker 1: he seems to care not one iota about what these 536 00:29:38,876 --> 00:29:42,516 Speaker 1: people say about him. So here is his mother comparing 537 00:29:42,556 --> 00:29:46,756 Speaker 1: Barry to his older brother Dennis. Rick has become famous 538 00:29:46,796 --> 00:29:49,036 Speaker 1: and made a lot of money. But what is that? 539 00:29:49,636 --> 00:29:53,156 Speaker 1: I think maybe Dennis leads the better life. Or here's 540 00:29:53,156 --> 00:29:56,796 Speaker 1: his dad defending him. There was an incident in Miami, 541 00:29:56,836 --> 00:29:59,316 Speaker 1: for example, that was blown out of proportion. I have 542 00:29:59,396 --> 00:30:01,636 Speaker 1: it on good authority that the player's jaw was broken 543 00:30:01,636 --> 00:30:05,356 Speaker 1: when he hit the floor, not from Rick's punch. And 544 00:30:05,396 --> 00:30:08,876 Speaker 1: this is his wife describing how they first met. He 545 00:30:08,996 --> 00:30:11,916 Speaker 1: was awful to me. He was always shoving me in 546 00:30:11,956 --> 00:30:14,276 Speaker 1: the pool, and I hated him for it. Oh, I 547 00:30:14,316 --> 00:30:16,836 Speaker 1: could take it. But there's always someone who goes too far, 548 00:30:17,116 --> 00:30:19,956 Speaker 1: who does it more than the others, beyond endurance, and 549 00:30:20,036 --> 00:30:24,076 Speaker 1: for me, that was Rick. I would not let my 550 00:30:24,316 --> 00:30:27,196 Speaker 1: parents and my wife say these things about me in 551 00:30:27,276 --> 00:30:28,836 Speaker 1: my own autobiography. 552 00:30:28,996 --> 00:30:30,636 Speaker 4: Yeah, I'd let people say what they wanted to I 553 00:30:30,636 --> 00:30:32,716 Speaker 4: didn't ask for editorial rights to be able to go 554 00:30:32,796 --> 00:30:34,436 Speaker 4: through and see what they said and see, oh no, 555 00:30:34,556 --> 00:30:36,356 Speaker 4: I don't want that in there. I let him say 556 00:30:36,396 --> 00:30:37,196 Speaker 4: what they wanted to say. 557 00:30:38,036 --> 00:30:40,716 Speaker 1: He doesn't care the kind of person who would let 558 00:30:40,836 --> 00:30:44,196 Speaker 1: bad things be said about him in his own autobiography. 559 00:30:44,716 --> 00:30:46,716 Speaker 1: Is the kind of person who would shoot a free 560 00:30:46,756 --> 00:30:56,036 Speaker 1: throw that other people think looks ridiculous. I spent an 561 00:30:56,036 --> 00:30:58,836 Speaker 1: afternoon with Burry at his condo, and I'd read all 562 00:30:58,836 --> 00:31:01,676 Speaker 1: that stuff about him. Half the players disliked him, the 563 00:31:01,716 --> 00:31:04,756 Speaker 1: other half hated him. And I kind of braced myself 564 00:31:04,796 --> 00:31:08,236 Speaker 1: before I met him. But I liked him, Or maybe 565 00:31:08,276 --> 00:31:11,236 Speaker 1: it makes more sense to say that I really admired 566 00:31:11,316 --> 00:31:15,596 Speaker 1: him because I finally understood what someone like Rick Berry 567 00:31:15,636 --> 00:31:21,356 Speaker 1: stands for. It's perfectionism. And what is a perfectionist? Someone 568 00:31:21,396 --> 00:31:24,996 Speaker 1: who puts the responsibility of mastering the task at hand 569 00:31:25,436 --> 00:31:30,396 Speaker 1: ahead of all social considerations. Who would rather be right 570 00:31:30,756 --> 00:31:34,236 Speaker 1: than liked? And how can you be good at something complex? 571 00:31:34,636 --> 00:31:37,396 Speaker 1: How can you reach your potential if you don't have 572 00:31:37,596 --> 00:31:42,476 Speaker 1: a little bit of that inside you. I know, we've 573 00:31:42,516 --> 00:31:45,196 Speaker 1: really only been talking about basketball, which is just a 574 00:31:45,236 --> 00:31:47,876 Speaker 1: game in the end, But the lesson here is much 575 00:31:47,916 --> 00:31:52,116 Speaker 1: bigger than that. It takes courage to be good social 576 00:31:52,156 --> 00:31:56,036 Speaker 1: courage to be honest with yourself, to do things the 577 00:31:56,196 --> 00:32:02,636 Speaker 1: right way. Berry made me lunch, a perfectly delicious homemade 578 00:32:02,716 --> 00:32:08,356 Speaker 1: vegetable soup with an avocado salad, simple, nutritious. When we finished, 579 00:32:08,596 --> 00:32:12,316 Speaker 1: he cleaned up meticulously. He needed a ride into Charleston, 580 00:32:12,556 --> 00:32:14,876 Speaker 1: so he got into my rental car. He turned off 581 00:32:14,876 --> 00:32:17,196 Speaker 1: the heating, which had been on high because the weather 582 00:32:17,196 --> 00:32:20,436 Speaker 1: had warmed up. He carefully took my rental agreement and 583 00:32:20,516 --> 00:32:23,636 Speaker 1: tucked it into the sun visor. And then when there 584 00:32:23,676 --> 00:32:26,116 Speaker 1: was a sudden slowing of the traffic ahead, and I 585 00:32:26,196 --> 00:32:28,956 Speaker 1: breaked a moment too late. I saw his foot come 586 00:32:28,996 --> 00:32:31,476 Speaker 1: down in the passenger foot well, as if he were 587 00:32:31,516 --> 00:32:34,836 Speaker 1: breaking from me. Only he breaked just a fraction of 588 00:32:34,876 --> 00:32:38,116 Speaker 1: a second before me, because he's Rick Barry, and he 589 00:32:38,116 --> 00:32:41,316 Speaker 1: does things better than everyone else. And all the while 590 00:32:41,356 --> 00:32:44,916 Speaker 1: he told stories from his basketball days, recalling shots and 591 00:32:44,956 --> 00:32:48,036 Speaker 1: scores and things people said as if it were yesterday. 592 00:32:50,596 --> 00:32:52,756 Speaker 1: I think he understands the price he's paid for being 593 00:32:52,756 --> 00:32:54,916 Speaker 1: the way he is. It kept coming up. 594 00:32:55,676 --> 00:32:58,596 Speaker 4: Everybody should have me as a friend. I'm a good friend. 595 00:32:59,036 --> 00:33:01,396 Speaker 4: I'm a loyal friend. I'm gonna be honest with you. 596 00:33:01,796 --> 00:33:03,636 Speaker 4: I'm gonna be there if you need me. I mean, 597 00:33:03,636 --> 00:33:05,316 Speaker 4: i'm a good friend. I'm a good person. I was 598 00:33:05,356 --> 00:33:08,196 Speaker 4: brought up the right way. I'm a good person. Yet 599 00:33:08,196 --> 00:33:09,196 Speaker 4: a lot of people don't think. 600 00:33:10,636 --> 00:33:13,156 Speaker 1: He's not describing an easy life, but think of what 601 00:33:13,196 --> 00:33:16,596 Speaker 1: he gained. Rick Berry was the best basketball player he 602 00:33:16,596 --> 00:33:20,876 Speaker 1: could possibly have been, and Wilt Chamberlain could never. 603 00:33:20,716 --> 00:33:22,676 Speaker 4: Say that he's gone. 604 00:33:22,996 --> 00:33:23,876 Speaker 2: He's trying to get up. 605 00:33:25,676 --> 00:33:28,956 Speaker 4: It's almost incomprehensible to me that someone could have that 606 00:33:29,316 --> 00:33:36,636 Speaker 4: attitude to sacrifice their success over worrying about how somebody 607 00:33:36,716 --> 00:33:40,396 Speaker 4: feels about you, what it says about you. That's that's sad. 608 00:33:40,636 --> 00:33:56,516 Speaker 1: Really, you've been listening to revisionist history. Sometimes the past 609 00:33:56,556 --> 00:34:10,356 Speaker 1: deserves a second chance. If you like what you've heard, 610 00:34:10,756 --> 00:34:12,956 Speaker 1: we'd love it. If you rate us on iTunes, it 611 00:34:13,036 --> 00:34:16,316 Speaker 1: helps a lot. You can find more information about this 612 00:34:16,516 --> 00:34:20,636 Speaker 1: and other episodes at revisionistphistory dot com or on your 613 00:34:20,676 --> 00:34:25,156 Speaker 1: favorite podcast app. Our show is produced by Neo La Belle, 614 00:34:25,276 --> 00:34:29,236 Speaker 1: Roxanne Scott and Jacob Smith. Our editor is Julia Barton. 615 00:34:29,916 --> 00:34:34,636 Speaker 1: Music is composed by Luis Gara and Taka Yazuzawa. Flon 616 00:34:34,676 --> 00:34:39,476 Speaker 1: Williams is our engineer, fact checker Michelle Siraka. Thanks to 617 00:34:39,516 --> 00:34:44,356 Speaker 1: the Penalty Management team Laura Mayer, Andy Bauers and Jacob Weisberg. 618 00:34:44,916 --> 00:34:46,756 Speaker 1: I'm Malcolm Gladwell. 619 00:34:53,276 --> 00:34:55,356 Speaker 4: So I used to joke with Welt and God rest 620 00:34:55,436 --> 00:34:57,116 Speaker 4: his soul. I got to know him well later in 621 00:34:57,156 --> 00:34:59,276 Speaker 4: my life and said, you should have come to meet 622 00:34:59,316 --> 00:35:01,916 Speaker 4: with the one. You had horrible technique. You know, I 623 00:35:01,916 --> 00:35:04,156 Speaker 4: gotta help you