WEBVTT - From the Vault: The Manta Ray, Part 1 0:00:06.200 --> 0:00:09.840 Hey, you welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. My 0:00:10.080 --> 0:00:13.960 name is Robert Lamb. Today is Saturday, so we have 0:00:14.000 --> 0:00:15.840 a vault episode for you. This is going to be 0:00:15.960 --> 0:00:20.280 the Manta Ray Part one. This one originally published July one, 0:00:20.520 --> 0:00:22.920 twenty twenty five. This is going to be part one 0:00:23.160 --> 0:00:27.200 of three. This one is a tremendous amount of fun 0:00:27.280 --> 0:00:31.280 to research and record, so we hope that you enjoy it, 0:00:31.360 --> 0:00:33.440 either for the first time or for the second time. 0:00:33.479 --> 0:00:34.919 Here let's dive right in. 0:00:38.280 --> 0:00:42.040 Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind production of iHeartRadio. 0:00:48.280 --> 0:00:50.320 Hey you welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. My 0:00:50.400 --> 0:00:53.760 name is Robert Lamb and I am Joe McCormick. In 0:00:53.800 --> 0:00:56.639 this episode, we're going to begin our look at the 0:00:56.680 --> 0:01:01.200 Manta ray because I very recently we had the privilege 0:01:01.240 --> 0:01:05.000 to travel with my family to raja Ampat in Indonesia 0:01:05.680 --> 0:01:08.880 for a week of snorkeling, and during that snorkeling, I 0:01:08.920 --> 0:01:12.679 got to observe manta rays while in the water snorkeling, 0:01:12.720 --> 0:01:15.679 and it was just a mind blowing experience. It was 0:01:15.720 --> 0:01:18.960 just magical. I can't quite put it into words exactly, 0:01:19.000 --> 0:01:20.720 but it was one of these situations where as I 0:01:20.760 --> 0:01:23.720 was snorkeling out with the other snorkelers towards this manta 0:01:23.800 --> 0:01:27.960 ray cleaning station. I found myself like mouthing, oh my god, 0:01:27.959 --> 0:01:30.520 oh my God through my breathing apparatus. 0:01:30.959 --> 0:01:33.680 The cleaning station is that, do I understand? 0:01:33.760 --> 0:01:33.840 Right? 0:01:33.880 --> 0:01:36.399 That's a place where they come to sort of be 0:01:36.400 --> 0:01:39.760 be swarmed by fish that will help get parasites or 0:01:39.800 --> 0:01:42.120 other kind of contaminants off of their bodies. 0:01:42.319 --> 0:01:45.680 Correct, This is This is pretty remarkable in its own right, 0:01:45.800 --> 0:01:47.800 and I think we'll get into that more in the 0:01:47.840 --> 0:01:51.240 second episode of this series. But yes, that's what we 0:01:51.240 --> 0:01:56.000 were observing. These were some reef manta rays that had 0:01:56.000 --> 0:01:59.080 come out to the cleaning station so that these various 0:01:59.080 --> 0:02:02.680 fish could eat their parasites. And yeah, it was just 0:02:02.760 --> 0:02:06.440 magical to watch these creatures move through the water like 0:02:06.880 --> 0:02:09.880 some sort of animate black and white cape, you know, 0:02:10.800 --> 0:02:13.959 some sort of an angel or demon, just something almost 0:02:14.000 --> 0:02:15.640 beyond our ability to comprehend. 0:02:16.560 --> 0:02:18.840 It's a bach coming in on the organ as they 0:02:18.880 --> 0:02:19.600 swish around. 0:02:20.040 --> 0:02:23.239 Yeah. Yeah, they're very very dramatic, but also we'll be 0:02:23.280 --> 0:02:26.760 discussing relatively drama free at least as far as what 0:02:26.800 --> 0:02:29.119 they're doing and what they're bringing to the table. There's 0:02:29.240 --> 0:02:32.240 a lot of manta ray drama, but it's almost entirely 0:02:32.280 --> 0:02:35.959 on us, the humans. Yeah, so I want to mention 0:02:36.040 --> 0:02:38.440 up here at the top that we did this snorkeling 0:02:38.480 --> 0:02:43.480 at the Missoul Marine Reserve is also where you find 0:02:43.480 --> 0:02:46.400 the Missoul Resort. The resort is just one leg of 0:02:46.400 --> 0:02:50.520 the overall conservation mission here, which actually started before the 0:02:50.520 --> 0:02:53.440 tourism part of the operation, like the tourism part apparently 0:02:54.120 --> 0:02:57.120 was then built up afterwards to fund the conservation mission. 0:02:57.720 --> 0:02:59.919 And I can't say enough good things about this place. 0:03:00.120 --> 0:03:02.480 Founded on the site of a former shark finning camp 0:03:02.919 --> 0:03:05.720 and in an area that had been previously targeted by 0:03:06.360 --> 0:03:11.040 illegal lumber operations and dynamite fishing, and now through the 0:03:11.080 --> 0:03:15.160 Missoul Foundation, they manage about three hundred thousand acres or 0:03:16.040 --> 0:03:19.359 twelve two hundred square kilometers of marine reserve with two 0:03:19.360 --> 0:03:23.520 distinct no take zones. They engage in various conservation efforts 0:03:23.520 --> 0:03:27.680 such as the Missoul Manta Program, a Reshark program, and 0:03:27.680 --> 0:03:31.240 this includes a program to reintroduce Indo Pacific leopard sharks, 0:03:31.560 --> 0:03:34.760 and they partner with various organizations of various like aquariums 0:03:34.800 --> 0:03:38.480 around the world who have the right eggs egg secs 0:03:38.560 --> 0:03:43.520 to reintroduce, and their partners include Atlanta Zone Georgia Aquarium. 0:03:44.200 --> 0:03:48.040 They're also involved in coral refrustoration, sustainability efforts in various 0:03:48.040 --> 0:03:50.320 community outreach and education programs. 0:03:50.880 --> 0:03:53.040 So you said you were doing a lot of snorkeling here. 0:03:53.080 --> 0:03:55.840 I know y'all are a snorkeling family, right, I have 0:03:55.960 --> 0:03:57.000 no experience with this. 0:03:57.600 --> 0:04:01.000 Yeah. Yeah, my wife got us into it, and you know, 0:04:01.000 --> 0:04:04.480 we'll go on snorkeling excursions here and there, and I 0:04:04.480 --> 0:04:06.320 have to say, yeah, this is the best snorkeling of 0:04:06.320 --> 0:04:09.600 my life thus far. This part of the world is 0:04:09.600 --> 0:04:12.720 in what's known as the Coral Triangle. This is an 0:04:12.760 --> 0:04:16.560 incredibly rich and diverse marine environment that happens to include 0:04:17.760 --> 0:04:21.640 according to the NAA, quote over six hundred reef building 0:04:21.680 --> 0:04:25.239 coral species, seventy five percent of all species known to science, 0:04:25.320 --> 0:04:28.359 three thousand species of reef fish, forty percent of the 0:04:28.360 --> 0:04:31.559 world's coral reef species, and six of the world's seven 0:04:31.600 --> 0:04:35.080 marine turtle species. Also three quarters of known molluscs. 0:04:35.279 --> 0:04:36.000 So it's happening. 0:04:36.400 --> 0:04:38.960 Yeah, it's yeah, just a very very rich place. And 0:04:39.560 --> 0:04:42.640 you know, I'll no doubt come back to other things. 0:04:42.720 --> 0:04:46.120 I observed there in future episodes, but one of the 0:04:46.120 --> 0:04:49.520 many highlights again was getting to observe these reef manta 0:04:49.640 --> 0:04:53.640 rays in the wild. So we'll get back to the 0:04:53.680 --> 0:04:57.400 details of the different the two main different mantes species, 0:04:57.440 --> 0:05:01.320 but this is the second largest of the rays and 0:05:01.360 --> 0:05:05.520 one of only two, possibly three extant manta rays species. 0:05:05.880 --> 0:05:08.160 They can weigh up to fifteen hundred pounds or seven 0:05:08.200 --> 0:05:12.360 hundred kilograms, and that's with a maximum disc width of 0:05:12.440 --> 0:05:16.599 fifteen feet or four hundred and fifty centimeters if you 0:05:16.640 --> 0:05:19.040 were I guess you could sort of frame that as 0:05:19.080 --> 0:05:20.720 their wingspan if you want. 0:05:20.880 --> 0:05:23.480 But you said, so, these are the reef mantas, and 0:05:23.640 --> 0:05:26.279 the largest of the manta rays would be the giant 0:05:26.279 --> 0:05:28.120 oceanic mantas, correct. 0:05:28.200 --> 0:05:30.600 Yeah, and we'll come back to the stats on them 0:05:30.600 --> 0:05:34.239 in a minute. But yeah, in both cases, great bat 0:05:34.480 --> 0:05:37.000 like black and white creatures that seem to glide and 0:05:37.040 --> 0:05:40.880 soar through the depths. And I think I had observed 0:05:41.000 --> 0:05:44.560 some in the water while standing on a sandbar elsewhere 0:05:44.560 --> 0:05:46.919 in the world previously, but this was my first and 0:05:47.000 --> 0:05:49.919 only time getting to see them while in the water, 0:05:50.000 --> 0:05:51.360 and again it was just astounding. 0:05:51.800 --> 0:05:54.719 So I have no experience with snorkeling. But in reading 0:05:54.800 --> 0:05:58.479 up for this episode, I just kept coming across first 0:05:58.520 --> 0:06:03.840 hand descriptions again and again of how strange and amazing 0:06:03.880 --> 0:06:06.280 it was to be in the water with manta rays. 0:06:06.600 --> 0:06:10.760 A common thing these divers and researchers talk about is 0:06:10.800 --> 0:06:16.000 a feeling of kind of intelligent or almost emotional connection 0:06:16.160 --> 0:06:18.839 with the animal that they have not experienced with any 0:06:18.880 --> 0:06:21.960 other fish. Because, to be clear, the manta is not 0:06:22.240 --> 0:06:25.479 like a mammal like dolphins or whales might be that 0:06:25.800 --> 0:06:28.840 you might be more you know, disposed, you might have 0:06:28.880 --> 0:06:31.240 more experience hearing about these kind of connections people have 0:06:31.520 --> 0:06:34.600 with marine mammals. But these are fish, you know, we 0:06:34.600 --> 0:06:38.080 think of them as these very kind of cold creatures 0:06:38.120 --> 0:06:41.440 of limited intelligence, kind of like sharks that seem to 0:06:41.440 --> 0:06:45.280 be mainly just kind of machines acting on impulse. They 0:06:45.320 --> 0:06:48.800 don't have that feeling of emotion and intelligence you might 0:06:48.880 --> 0:06:51.520 get from a mammal. But in this case, this is 0:06:51.560 --> 0:06:54.120 a fish that lots of people say, does it does 0:06:54.200 --> 0:06:56.680 have that feeling. It's like it's there and it's alive, 0:06:56.760 --> 0:06:57.520 and it's thinking. 0:06:58.279 --> 0:07:00.640 Yeah, this is a great point, And I think we'll 0:07:00.680 --> 0:07:04.280 probably get into the intel the brain, the intelligence of 0:07:04.920 --> 0:07:08.280 the manta ray, especially in the next episode. But but 0:07:08.480 --> 0:07:10.720 you do see this observation a lot. There seems to 0:07:10.760 --> 0:07:14.200 be a curiosity on the part of the manta and 0:07:13.880 --> 0:07:16.880 in many ways, this kind of curiosity reminds us of 0:07:16.880 --> 0:07:24.160 our interactions with mammalian marine species like dolphins and whales. Now, 0:07:24.200 --> 0:07:26.560 in the case of our own experiences, I want to 0:07:26.680 --> 0:07:30.960 stress that we observe them while snorkeling, rather than say 0:07:30.960 --> 0:07:32.960 that we swam with them. I guess you could technically 0:07:33.000 --> 0:07:34.360 say we swam them with them. We were in the 0:07:34.400 --> 0:07:36.920 same but the body of water with them, but we 0:07:37.400 --> 0:07:41.240 did keep our distance. We did not chase the manta rays, 0:07:41.280 --> 0:07:43.760 and we certainly did not attempt attempt to touch these 0:07:43.800 --> 0:07:45.200 gentle giants of the sea. 0:07:45.360 --> 0:07:46.720 I assume that's discouraged. 0:07:47.120 --> 0:07:51.600 It is discouraged, yes, And in discussing this, like the 0:07:51.720 --> 0:07:56.280 human desire to touch the manta ray, I wanted to 0:07:56.280 --> 0:08:00.000 get into a preliminary discussion here about the human attitude 0:08:00.320 --> 0:08:05.240 toward the manta ray because this is important because ultimately 0:08:05.320 --> 0:08:08.680 human attitudes towards the manta rays also plays into their 0:08:08.760 --> 0:08:12.480 endangered status in the world, certainly with the oceanic manta. 0:08:13.080 --> 0:08:17.200 So manta rays enjoy a pretty wide range. They're found 0:08:17.240 --> 0:08:21.480 in warm, temperate, subtropical and tropical waters around the world. 0:08:22.000 --> 0:08:25.320 As such, humans and coastal areas within their range have 0:08:25.440 --> 0:08:29.560 known about them for a very long time. Hawaiian, Micronesian, 0:08:29.880 --> 0:08:33.559 Southeast Asian, and South American traditions have viewed the manta 0:08:33.800 --> 0:08:38.240 in varying supernatural lights, as reincarnations of human souls, as 0:08:38.440 --> 0:08:43.520 avatars of a creator deity, as divine protectors, as divine messengers, 0:08:44.160 --> 0:08:47.920 and as such, they've even enjoyed traditional protected status amongst 0:08:47.920 --> 0:08:51.280 certain groups, at least at different times. But there's also 0:08:51.280 --> 0:08:54.160 a darker side to human attitudes toward manta rays. Over 0:08:54.160 --> 0:08:57.000 the past couple of decades, the demand for manta ray 0:08:57.080 --> 0:09:01.920 gill plates in traditional medicine, particularly traditional Chinese medicine, has 0:09:02.000 --> 0:09:06.479 proven devastating from manta ray populations. Based on the unproven 0:09:06.720 --> 0:09:10.280 and to be clear of pseudoscientific idea, the consumption of 0:09:10.320 --> 0:09:13.280 these gills in some sort of like powdered driver and 0:09:13.400 --> 0:09:17.000 or powdered form can boost the human immune system, among 0:09:17.040 --> 0:09:21.160 other supposed benefits. And the story of how this is 0:09:21.679 --> 0:09:24.040 really interesting in its own right. I was reading about 0:09:24.040 --> 0:09:28.679 this in a paper by O'Malley at all titled Characterization 0:09:28.880 --> 0:09:31.560 of the Trade in Manta and Devil ray gill plates 0:09:31.559 --> 0:09:35.199 in China and Southeast Asia through Trader Surveys. This was 0:09:35.200 --> 0:09:40.720 published in twenty sixteen in Aquatic Conservation, Marine and Freshwater Ecosystems, 0:09:41.320 --> 0:09:45.000 and they point out that mention of manta gill plates 0:09:45.360 --> 0:09:49.000 didn't pop up in traditional Chinese medicine publications until around 0:09:49.080 --> 0:09:52.760 nineteen seventy six. This to be clear, despite the fact 0:09:52.760 --> 0:09:56.960 that traditional Chinese medicine itself is very very old, going 0:09:56.960 --> 0:10:02.320 back like five thousand years, widespread and popular form of 0:10:02.360 --> 0:10:07.760 alternative medicine, but the consumption of these gill plates is 0:10:07.880 --> 0:10:13.040 not some sort of deep seated tradition in this alternative 0:10:13.040 --> 0:10:14.079 medicine practice. 0:10:14.200 --> 0:10:16.200 This would not be the only case that something is 0:10:16.240 --> 0:10:20.160 presented as a traditional or ancient cure from some culture 0:10:20.240 --> 0:10:22.160 or other when it is not. It is a fairly 0:10:22.200 --> 0:10:23.959 recent thing people have started doing. 0:10:24.600 --> 0:10:29.480 Yeah. One of my key sources for these episodes is 0:10:29.559 --> 0:10:32.640 twenty eighteen's Guide to the Manta and Devil Rays of 0:10:32.679 --> 0:10:38.160 the World by Stevens, Fernando Dando, and Dyscaria. And in 0:10:38.200 --> 0:10:41.360 this book, which I'll keep coming back to, they say 0:10:41.400 --> 0:10:44.080 that this was all likely a quote clever marketing of 0:10:44.120 --> 0:10:47.800 a readily available and cheap bycatch product. So, in other words, 0:10:48.360 --> 0:10:52.280 various unsustainable fishing practices would be pulling mantas in any way, 0:10:53.240 --> 0:10:55.880 and then they're like, well, let's market the parts of 0:10:55.920 --> 0:10:59.960 this creature and sell it. And then as popularity builds, 0:11:00.040 --> 0:11:03.760 it translates into direct targeting of mantas by what they 0:11:03.760 --> 0:11:06.920 describe as boom and bust fisheries. So, for reasons we'll 0:11:06.920 --> 0:11:10.840 discuss in these episodes, these are vulnerable species that do 0:11:10.920 --> 0:11:14.120 not easily endure this sort of targeted fishing, so these 0:11:14.160 --> 0:11:18.760 operations inherently produce very short lived paydays while doing long 0:11:18.840 --> 0:11:22.960 term damage to the populations. They also note that the 0:11:23.040 --> 0:11:25.480 rise in popularity may also tie in with the rise 0:11:25.559 --> 0:11:29.600 in human respiratory illnesses do in part to pollution, and 0:11:29.640 --> 0:11:34.040 again these pseudoscientific claims. Basically we're dealing with the idea that, Okay, 0:11:36.160 --> 0:11:39.160 these are filters for the fish, and therefore, on some level, 0:11:39.280 --> 0:11:42.080 if I consume them, it's going to help filter me 0:11:42.200 --> 0:11:43.960 out as well. It's going to protect me from the 0:11:43.960 --> 0:11:47.400 things that would harm me in the environment. So again, 0:11:47.440 --> 0:11:50.199 gill plates would seem to be a relatively recent addition 0:11:51.160 --> 0:11:54.360 to traditional Chinese medicine, and one that has had a 0:11:54.480 --> 0:11:58.920 marked impact on the populations of these vulnerable fish species. 0:11:59.240 --> 0:12:02.440 The reef manta is currently flagged as vulnerable, while the 0:12:02.520 --> 0:12:04.600 giant oceanic manta is endangered. 0:12:04.920 --> 0:12:06.920 And I would imagine that we can come back to 0:12:07.120 --> 0:12:09.559 this because I'm sure there's more nuance, but I would 0:12:09.559 --> 0:12:14.040 imagine that they are especially vulnerable to heavy fishing and 0:12:14.080 --> 0:12:17.920 harvesting because they're larger species that have a slower reproductive 0:12:17.920 --> 0:12:18.960 schedule exactly. 0:12:29.240 --> 0:12:31.360 And then historically, on top of all of this, there 0:12:31.400 --> 0:12:35.640 are Western European misconceptions and myths about manta rays and 0:12:35.720 --> 0:12:40.040 devil rays, rooted apparently in the observations of sailors, but 0:12:40.800 --> 0:12:44.120 managing to survive well into the early twentieth century and 0:12:44.360 --> 0:12:47.160 manifesting in written fiction as well as in at least 0:12:47.200 --> 0:12:49.000 a couple of early horror films. 0:12:49.400 --> 0:12:52.520 Yes, so, Rob, at your suggestion, I looked these up. 0:12:52.520 --> 0:12:54.880 You sort of gave me an assignment here, and I 0:12:54.960 --> 0:12:57.480 checked these movies out. Strangely, both of these made in 0:12:57.520 --> 0:13:00.360 the nineteen thirties, you know, I think of the the 0:13:00.400 --> 0:13:04.319 seventies through the nineties is kind of the heyday of oh, 0:13:04.360 --> 0:13:07.200 I don't know, killer monster in the ocean movies of course, 0:13:07.400 --> 0:13:09.400 following Jaws, Jaws is the big one, and then you 0:13:09.400 --> 0:13:12.120 get all the Jaws copycats, you know, Orca and everything 0:13:12.200 --> 0:13:15.880 like that, and then even further down the chain until 0:13:15.920 --> 0:13:18.080 like the real kind of Z grade copycats. You know, 0:13:18.160 --> 0:13:21.040 in the nineties and two thousands, there were just ten 0:13:21.520 --> 0:13:24.480 billion direct to video shark movies made. 0:13:25.800 --> 0:13:29.000 Yeah, that is a great observation, especially since what is it, 0:13:29.000 --> 0:13:34.079 fifty years of Jaws now celebrating a major birthday. 0:13:34.480 --> 0:13:37.320 But yeah, I mean, you can't deny the power of Jaws. 0:13:37.320 --> 0:13:40.080 Like as much as I hate to contribute to the 0:13:40.120 --> 0:13:42.880 demonizing of of ocean creatures, Jaws is just a banger. 0:13:42.920 --> 0:13:44.079 It's a great movie. It is. 0:13:44.200 --> 0:13:48.640 It's a great film. It changed movies forever. You can't 0:13:48.640 --> 0:13:51.400 talk about blockbusters without talking about Jaws. You can't talk 0:13:51.440 --> 0:13:55.920 about monster movies really without talking talking about Jaws. But 0:13:56.000 --> 0:13:58.520 it is interesting in pointing out that films like Jaws 0:13:58.520 --> 0:14:02.160 arise in the nineteen seventies and then various other creatures 0:14:02.200 --> 0:14:05.360 are drawn into the mix. But the seventies seem to 0:14:05.400 --> 0:14:09.839 be the time period during which in the Europeans in 0:14:09.880 --> 0:14:12.559 the West woke up to the idea that, oh, yeah, 0:14:12.600 --> 0:14:15.800 manterrays are fine. They're like absolutely not threatening anybody. Not 0:14:15.880 --> 0:14:19.280 only are they not threatening, not actually threatening, it's hard 0:14:19.320 --> 0:14:21.960 to conceive of them being threatening. Like, we can't even 0:14:22.520 --> 0:14:25.440 think about making a monster movie about something so tame. 0:14:25.520 --> 0:14:27.560 We'll make one about the killer rabbits first. 0:14:27.840 --> 0:14:29.960 I feel like the stuff you would get later, like 0:14:30.000 --> 0:14:33.640 in the eighties is movies that had friendly aliens that 0:14:33.680 --> 0:14:37.320 were basically manter ray shaped. I can't even remember what 0:14:37.360 --> 0:14:39.520 movie I'm thinking of, but I can picture it in 0:14:39.560 --> 0:14:44.120 my mind, like a gentle, sort of illuminated, bioluminescent, floating 0:14:44.200 --> 0:14:47.320 manta ray with intelligence that's like communicating with a child 0:14:47.440 --> 0:14:49.640 or something. Does that ring any bells for you? 0:14:49.680 --> 0:14:53.200 Who that one? Not specifically, but I was reading doing 0:14:53.200 --> 0:14:56.640 some additional reading, and there are various examples of creatures 0:14:56.720 --> 0:14:59.360 in sci fi that say, live in the atmosphere of 0:14:59.440 --> 0:15:03.640 Jupiter at least partially based on the manta ray. Oh, like, 0:15:03.920 --> 0:15:07.440 it just has a pleasing ethereal form. Again, it's like 0:15:07.520 --> 0:15:09.560 to the point where it's almost hard for us to 0:15:09.560 --> 0:15:12.680 put ourselves in the mindset of someone who sees a 0:15:12.720 --> 0:15:15.640 manta ray and thinks about it as a relentless killer. 0:15:16.120 --> 0:15:18.120 Oh, the Jupiter when you mentioned rang a Bell, because 0:15:18.120 --> 0:15:20.040 we just talked about the story in our series on 0:15:20.120 --> 0:15:23.760 the Great Storm the big Red Spot of Jupiter, because 0:15:23.800 --> 0:15:26.320 that was in a meeting with Medusa by Arthur C. Clark. 0:15:26.440 --> 0:15:28.520 One of the aliens they meet. There is like a 0:15:28.560 --> 0:15:31.560 giant manta ray in the atmosphere of Jupiter. But anyway, 0:15:31.600 --> 0:15:33.000 we got it, okay, So we got to talk about 0:15:33.000 --> 0:15:36.480 these manta horror movies from the nineteen thirties, neither of 0:15:36.520 --> 0:15:39.840 which exactly lives up to that promise, but they're both 0:15:39.920 --> 0:15:43.000 kind of marketed that way. So one of these movies 0:15:43.120 --> 0:15:47.960 is called The Sea Bat Sea, not c the letter 0:15:48.000 --> 0:15:51.680 Sea Bat Sea Bat from nineteen thirty This is a 0:15:51.720 --> 0:15:57.359 pre code American romantic melodrama directed by Wesley Ruggles. Apparently, 0:15:57.440 --> 0:16:02.040 in early production, Todd Browning was somehow attached to this 0:16:02.160 --> 0:16:04.560 and it was maybe supposed to be a vehicle featuring 0:16:04.960 --> 0:16:08.400 Lon Cheney, but that never worked out. So this was 0:16:08.440 --> 0:16:12.120 directed by Wesley Ruggles, shot in Mexico, starring Charles Bickford, 0:16:12.240 --> 0:16:16.120 Raquel Torres, and Nil's Astor, and it even has Boris 0:16:16.160 --> 0:16:18.760 Karloff in a small role. This came out a year 0:16:18.800 --> 0:16:21.960 before Karloff's big break in Frankenstein that was thirty one. 0:16:22.920 --> 0:16:25.720 So this is set on an island in the Caribbean 0:16:26.000 --> 0:16:29.280 and the story follows a character named Nina played by 0:16:29.320 --> 0:16:33.240 Mexican actress Raquel Torres, who is either in love with 0:16:33.640 --> 0:16:36.800 or is the sister of, depending on which synopsis you read. 0:16:36.840 --> 0:16:40.520 I was not able to watch this movie before recording today. 0:16:40.840 --> 0:16:42.720 Is either in love with or is the sister of 0:16:42.880 --> 0:16:46.880 a sponge diver named Carl. Sadly, Carl is killed when 0:16:46.880 --> 0:16:50.880 his diving party is attacked by a dreaded local creature 0:16:51.000 --> 0:16:54.600 known as the sea bat, and this is described in 0:16:54.640 --> 0:16:57.840 some sources as a giant manta ray, in other sources 0:16:57.880 --> 0:17:01.720 as a sting ray, which, as we'll discuss more throughout 0:17:01.720 --> 0:17:04.280 the series, that those are not the same thing, though 0:17:04.480 --> 0:17:07.800 some publications describing the movie seem not to recognize that 0:17:07.840 --> 0:17:09.760 there is a difference. I think they just think, like 0:17:09.840 --> 0:17:14.600 Mantrey's arsting rays, same thing. In some effects shots you 0:17:14.640 --> 0:17:17.240 can see it really doesn't look like either one rob 0:17:17.280 --> 0:17:20.320 I put one screenshot in here for you. There are 0:17:20.400 --> 0:17:23.439 shots of it underwater where it I don't know, it's 0:17:23.440 --> 0:17:26.480 shaped kind of like an airplane or like a spaceship 0:17:26.520 --> 0:17:29.600 of some kind, and then there are some shots where 0:17:29.600 --> 0:17:31.800 you see it at the water line and it looks 0:17:31.880 --> 0:17:36.040 just more like a giant shark or tuna type creature. Anyway, 0:17:36.080 --> 0:17:40.920 after the tragic loss of Carl in this seabat related incident, 0:17:41.200 --> 0:17:44.600 the character Nina starts getting into voodoo and then declares 0:17:44.640 --> 0:17:46.920 that she will marry any man who can kill the 0:17:47.000 --> 0:17:50.320 dreaded sea bat. Several men try and fail, and then 0:17:50.320 --> 0:17:54.080 eventually a traveling preacher named Reverend Sims comes to town. 0:17:54.160 --> 0:17:57.959 This is Charles Bickford, and he somehow both converts Nina 0:17:58.000 --> 0:18:00.600 to Christianity. He leads her out of were packed with 0:18:00.680 --> 0:18:04.600 voodoo and falls in love with her, and it's a 0:18:04.680 --> 0:18:07.000 tragic romance, I guess, or I don't know how tragic. 0:18:07.040 --> 0:18:09.200 I think. They do end up happily together at the end. 0:18:09.840 --> 0:18:12.000 But there is a twist because it turns out Reverend 0:18:12.080 --> 0:18:15.919 Sims is actually an escaped convict pretending to be a minister. 0:18:16.800 --> 0:18:19.720 And then some of Nina's other jealous suitors try to 0:18:19.760 --> 0:18:22.080 capture him and turn him in for the bounty. But 0:18:22.359 --> 0:18:24.159 on the way there they're like on a boat, and 0:18:24.200 --> 0:18:26.439 the boat gets attacked by the sea bat, so they 0:18:26.480 --> 0:18:30.120 get sea batted, but Reverend Sims survives and he goes 0:18:30.160 --> 0:18:32.760 back to Nina, and I guess they live happily ever after. 0:18:33.320 --> 0:18:36.280 That's what I could piece together reading various synopsis online 0:18:36.880 --> 0:18:40.560 from the American Film Institute Catalog's historical entry on the movie. 0:18:40.600 --> 0:18:42.600 I just wanted to read a couple of production notes 0:18:42.640 --> 0:18:48.800 because they factor into the stingray or Manta ray discussion. Quote. 0:18:49.119 --> 0:18:51.920 According to the Telegraph News, the movie, with its crew 0:18:51.960 --> 0:18:55.240 of sixty two personnel, was quote believed to be the 0:18:55.359 --> 0:18:59.640 largest motion picture expedition to leave Hollywood for another American country. 0:19:00.119 --> 0:19:03.639 The production required three pullmans and two baggage cars with 0:19:03.680 --> 0:19:07.080 two hundred tons of equipment, and an inventory of articles 0:19:07.119 --> 0:19:10.120 taken into Mexico under customs bond covered by more than 0:19:10.160 --> 0:19:13.240 one thousand pages and showed a total value of eighty 0:19:13.320 --> 0:19:17.000 thousand dollars. The article also claimed that the titular subject 0:19:17.040 --> 0:19:20.320 of the film, the Giant Stingray, was filmed for the 0:19:20.359 --> 0:19:22.560 first time in the sea bat. 0:19:23.920 --> 0:19:26.800 The giant stingray, Now, I'm not sure where that would 0:19:26.840 --> 0:19:30.159 be that there is a giant freshwater stingray, but I 0:19:30.160 --> 0:19:32.199 think this is a creature you find in touch tanks. 0:19:32.200 --> 0:19:35.520 This is not in captivity. I don't think this is 0:19:35.560 --> 0:19:38.400 something that is going to be that threatening. 0:19:38.920 --> 0:19:41.199 And once again, like I said, I couldn't watch the 0:19:41.200 --> 0:19:43.720 whole movie, but in the clips I saw, there were 0:19:43.720 --> 0:19:46.720 two different ways the sea bat looked, and neither of 0:19:46.760 --> 0:19:51.360 them looked like a real animal anyway. Not clear if 0:19:51.400 --> 0:19:54.359 anybody involved here knew the difference between a stingray and 0:19:54.400 --> 0:19:58.399 a manta ray, which is rob cee if you follow 0:19:58.440 --> 0:20:00.520 me here. I think that's somewhat common. Bolt of the 0:20:00.520 --> 0:20:03.639 difference between like a great white shark and a whale shark, 0:20:04.080 --> 0:20:07.160 like pretty different organisms. One's a filter feeder, the others 0:20:07.200 --> 0:20:09.040 a predator right right. 0:20:09.000 --> 0:20:10.560 And even then with the sting right that, I think 0:20:10.560 --> 0:20:13.120 there's depending on what type of stingray, you have different 0:20:13.200 --> 0:20:15.000 forms of feeding that are taking place. 0:20:15.080 --> 0:20:18.920 But yeah, essentially many reviewers of Sea Bat also say 0:20:19.080 --> 0:20:24.720 not enough sea bat seabat sequences are limited, And yeah, 0:20:24.760 --> 0:20:26.720 so in the in the scene I did see of 0:20:26.760 --> 0:20:29.080 it chasing the boat, it's like attacking the boat as 0:20:29.080 --> 0:20:32.080 they're out on the water. It's basically jaws. The creature 0:20:32.080 --> 0:20:34.360 looks like a cross between kind of like a sting ray, 0:20:34.440 --> 0:20:36.600 but also like a shark and kind of a giant 0:20:36.640 --> 0:20:41.480 silver tuna type thing. The other killer Manta movie that 0:20:41.520 --> 0:20:45.879 you flagged for me is The Devil Monster, which was 0:20:45.920 --> 0:20:48.240 released in several different years. There was a nineteen thirty 0:20:48.280 --> 0:20:51.199 six version nineteen forty six version, also known as The 0:20:51.280 --> 0:20:56.119 Sea Fiend. This is yet another production at least somewhat 0:20:56.160 --> 0:21:00.000 marketed as ray horror, but it actually features relatively little 0:21:00.119 --> 0:21:03.320 on screen ray action. So it was first made in 0:21:03.400 --> 0:21:06.879 nineteen thirty six, re edited and re released multiple times, 0:21:06.920 --> 0:21:10.280 including in nineteen forty six when it was beefed up 0:21:10.280 --> 0:21:13.399 with a bunch of exploitation content, which included footage of 0:21:13.440 --> 0:21:17.200 what appears to be sadly genuine animal cruelty, like forcing 0:21:17.240 --> 0:21:21.160 live animals to fight each other, and then also stock 0:21:21.480 --> 0:21:25.560 documentary footage of Native Pacific islanders just going about their 0:21:25.600 --> 0:21:28.960 daily life included, no doubt, because this was a way 0:21:29.080 --> 0:21:33.280 around Hayes Code prohibitions on nudity at the time. This 0:21:33.440 --> 0:21:36.440 was directed by s Edwin Graham. The basic plot of 0:21:36.480 --> 0:21:38.800 the nineteen forty six version is about a mission to 0:21:38.840 --> 0:21:42.040 find a missing sailor whose ship was wrecked on the Galapagos. 0:21:43.160 --> 0:21:45.800 Though apparently huge stretches of the movie take a break 0:21:45.800 --> 0:21:48.800 from the main narrative to just show octopus fights or 0:21:48.920 --> 0:21:54.280 topless women processing grain, and the climax has several characters 0:21:54.320 --> 0:21:57.320 forced to battle a giant manta ray that is said 0:21:57.359 --> 0:22:00.960 to be a threat to the local tuna fishermen. So 0:22:01.040 --> 0:22:03.280 once again, you got you got a monster manta ray 0:22:03.840 --> 0:22:06.040 the monster. So I looked at this part where they're 0:22:06.040 --> 0:22:09.120 battling the ray, and it does look much more clearly 0:22:09.240 --> 0:22:12.440 like a ray. Unfortunately, I think in this case that's 0:22:12.480 --> 0:22:15.159 because it is a real manta ray, and the film's 0:22:15.200 --> 0:22:19.160 action climax is just an unsimulated harpooning of a real animal. 0:22:19.400 --> 0:22:21.440 Oh well, that's that's quite unfortunate. 0:22:21.960 --> 0:22:24.240 So from a distance, I'm going to give a preemptive 0:22:24.280 --> 0:22:26.280 thumbs down to both of these movies. 0:22:26.920 --> 0:22:29.919 Yeah, I don't think either of these are are contenders 0:22:29.920 --> 0:22:31.280 for weird house cinema treatment. 0:22:31.520 --> 0:22:35.720 Yeah, but it does raise this question, like because it's 0:22:35.760 --> 0:22:39.919 framing them, framing rays as this monster that attacks humans 0:22:39.960 --> 0:22:42.520 and you know, threatens boats and all. This was it 0:22:42.600 --> 0:22:45.920