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Speaker 1: Welcome to how to Money.

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Speaker 2: I'm Joel and I am Matt.

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Speaker 1: Today we're answering your listener questions.

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Speaker 2: Hey man, we're talking about personal finances today, like we

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Speaker 2: do every how the money. That's our job. Hey, let's

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Speaker 2: switch it up. What did you go? Do you want

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Speaker 2: to do today? Pinky take over the world. Well, we'll

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Speaker 2: talk personal finance. I was gonna ask you, did you

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Speaker 2: have a run this morning?

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Speaker 1: Every morning? Our most morning?

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Speaker 2: How far? How far this morning? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: A little over eight miles?

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Speaker 2: Oh my gosh. Yeah, like the distances you threw out there. Now,

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Speaker 2: I'm like for me to scrape out a three or

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Speaker 2: four mile run, is is quite the accomplishment. Did you

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Speaker 2: read There's an article in The Times a couple of

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Speaker 2: weeks ago about cross country and like this race that

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Speaker 2: this guy runs up in outside of New York City

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Speaker 2: all the time. I'll send it to you. It just

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Speaker 2: they talk about like the grit and the foul weather

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Speaker 2: that you have to endure and how you just get

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Speaker 2: tough and it make it may made me want to

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Speaker 2: make sure that my kids are running as they are

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Speaker 2: getting older, just to push them into.

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Speaker 1: Cross country specifically too.

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Speaker 2: Right, Like there's there's it's not flashy, it's not very sexy,

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Speaker 2: but there's just a whole lot of grit that goes

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Speaker 2: into running cross country. I ran cross country in high school,

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Speaker 2: so I think it resonated with me.

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Speaker 1: Well, it's an interesting distance because it requires a lot

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Speaker 1: of you requires both aerobic and anaerobic, because it's like

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Speaker 1: that sweet spot distance where you really need the best

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Speaker 1: of both worlds both. But I was telling Emily on

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Speaker 1: the way out the door, I was like, I just

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Speaker 1: really don't want to go today, really, just because it's

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Speaker 1: so cold, and like it's I just you have to

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Speaker 1: bundle up and it's not fun ideal running temps like

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Speaker 1: fifty degrees. It's colder than that right now. Yeah, And

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Speaker 1: so uh yeah, but like once you get out there,

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Speaker 1: it's the best thing in the world. And I'm just

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Speaker 1: like so happy I didn't not go, Yeah, but I

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Speaker 1: went that you did.

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Speaker 2: Actually go double Okay. But we do have personal finance

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Speaker 2: listener money questions to get to, like paying fees in

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Speaker 2: your target date. We'll get to that. Another listeners wanting

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Speaker 2: to make sure he picks the right healthcare plan. We're

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Speaker 2: gonna talk about fifty your mortgages, all that and more

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Speaker 2: during our episode today. Really quickly, though, I did want

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Speaker 2: to share a little PSA for everyone out there, which

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Speaker 2: is to consider decluttering before the holidays roll around, men

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Speaker 2: before Christmas shows or you reclutter before yes, I mean

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Speaker 2: quite literally, to make sure you have room for all

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Speaker 2: those crap that we end up buying and or receiving

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Speaker 2: around the holidays. And the reason I bring this up

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Speaker 2: is because I recently sold an old laptop on Facebook Marketplace.

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Speaker 2: And this was a laptop, dude that I thought, nobody

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Speaker 2: is going to want this. It's it's over a decade

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Speaker 2: old twenty thirteen MacBook Pro, and I was able to

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Speaker 2: list that thing get it sold. Somebody is now the

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Speaker 2: happy owner of.

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Speaker 1: This old laptop. What'd you get for it?

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Speaker 2: One hundred bucks, which well impressive considering you can get

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Speaker 2: a computer it's way better than that now for not

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Speaker 2: too much, like seven hundred dollars something like that. So yeah,

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Speaker 2: well I think that's the thing, like, in my mind,

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Speaker 2: is not worth it. But I also thought, well, somebody

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Speaker 2: else is gonna want this thing, and if the fact

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Speaker 2: is like that's what prices are right, like, that communicates

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Speaker 2: to me that this is worth it to somebody and

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Speaker 2: I even think I may have underpriced it because that

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty five people reached out about this thing, so

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Speaker 2: I'm thinking it's vintage. I guess, so I don't know

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Speaker 2: what it was, but I could have priced this a

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Speaker 2: bit more optimally. And but then again then you deal

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Speaker 2: with having to keep it listed for longer. And I

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Speaker 2: was just it was priced to move. Let's just sometimes

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Speaker 2: that's the best way to do it. If you want

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Speaker 2: to get rid of a bunch of stuff in short order,

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Speaker 2: you just want to get get it out the door.

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Speaker 1: Don't overprice it, and then be able to hang away.

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Speaker 2: They get accessible for somebody, they've got something affordable, you've

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Speaker 2: got a little bit of extra cash in your wallet.

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Speaker 2: And then obviously it's not sitting there on the shelf

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Speaker 2: or in the closet gathering dust at a point like

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Speaker 2: and eventually it's not going to be worth anything at

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Speaker 2: all and you just have to end up taking it

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Speaker 2: in and recycling.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, But I think it's a good that's a

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Speaker 1: good tip, and it's one it'll help you raise a

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Speaker 1: few dollars or your Christmas spending this year, and then too, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: create that space, like you're saying so yeah, a little decluttering.

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Speaker 1: Maybe list a few things. Maybe maybe make make the

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Speaker 1: goal to find twenty things and list two a day

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Speaker 1: for the next ten days, something like that.

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Speaker 2: I think fun.

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Speaker 1: I don't know however you want to do it, but

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Speaker 1: just I like that idea.

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Speaker 2: You remember when we did the one of the how

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Speaker 2: the Money Money challenges, Oh yeah, and the selling your stuff.

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Speaker 2: We'll throw back to that that old worksheet if you

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Speaker 2: were looking for a little bit of motivation to track

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Speaker 2: the items that you're spelling, you know. I was just

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Speaker 2: thinking thought about that we should resurrect those and put

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Speaker 2: them in the newsletter for people them. Yeah. Okay, so

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Speaker 2: or at least that one we got to find them.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but maybe we'll put those in an upcoming had

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Speaker 1: the Money newsletter. That's right, all right, Well let's mention

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Speaker 1: the beer we're having. This one's called Contrast. It's an

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Speaker 1: American style wheat ale and it's a collaboration between Burial

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Speaker 1: and Alligash too.

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Speaker 2: Oh I didn't realize this was Burial because it didn't.

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Speaker 2: It kind of has the burial look, but not surprisingly

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Speaker 2: has more of an alleg ash.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, to of the great American periks. We'll give our

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Speaker 1: thoughts on this one. Thank yeah later on and if

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Speaker 1: you have a money question, please send it our way.

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Speaker 1: We'd love to hear it. Go to Honamoney dot com

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Speaker 1: slash ask for specifics, but really just recording the voice

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Speaker 1: memo the app at your phone and emailing it over

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Speaker 1: to us. Matt, let's get to question numero uno. This

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Speaker 1: is a question about how much target date funds are

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Speaker 1: actually extracting from you.

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Speaker 3: Hi, Matt and Joel, this is Steve and Nova just

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Speaker 3: south of DC. Thanks for doing your podcast. I've been

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Speaker 3: listening for about three or four years now, and I

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Speaker 3: really appreciate the approach that you guys have. I've been

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Speaker 3: growing my four to one K for a number of

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Speaker 3: years and periodically all change or tweak things here and there.

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Speaker 3: But one piece of advice that I really took from

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Speaker 3: you guys is sticking with simplicity and low cost. I

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Speaker 3: currently have an SMP five hundred fund, two target date funds,

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Speaker 3: and a bond fund, all of our vanguard, all of

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Speaker 3: our low expenses. But that brings me to my question.

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Speaker 3: My target date funds have an expense ratio of zero

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Speaker 3: point zero eight percent. Fine, but they're both basically funds.

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Speaker 3: Of funds, So is that expense ratio actually true? I

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Speaker 3: mean inside each one is maybe five other Vanguard funds.

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Speaker 3: Two of them are the same as the SNPN bond

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Speaker 3: fund that I have. So what about the expense ratios

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Speaker 3: for those funds that are inside the target date fund? Basically?

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Speaker 3: Are my expenses actually higher than the point eight percent

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Speaker 3: and they're just being hidden inside there by the other funds?

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Speaker 3: Or am I really just being too anal about this?

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Speaker 3: Thanks in advance, best friends out.

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Speaker 2: Joel Steve wants to know if Vanguard is double dipping.

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Speaker 2: That's what he's trying to figure out here.

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Speaker 1: It's a good question. I should should have asked their

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Speaker 1: chief global economics, and we had them on that too

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Speaker 1: long ago. Feet to the fire.

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Speaker 2: Well we can answer that question, we don't have to.

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Speaker 2: How do you feel about double dipping though? From a

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Speaker 2: you're at a party, you know, holidays are maybe you're

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Speaker 2: attending a party here and there. How do you feel

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Speaker 2: about the actually double dipping?

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Speaker 4: Oh?

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Speaker 1: Man, I think it's probably uncouth like yours. At your

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Speaker 1: own home, you can double tip as long as like

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Speaker 1: you're not offending the people in your immediate family. But

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Speaker 1: at a at a party.

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Speaker 2: No man, that's how you get sick, or that's how

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Speaker 2: you get.

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Speaker 1: Everybody else sick.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we don't even certain things at home like Greek

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Speaker 2: yogurt and stuff. We're super anal about uh not touching

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Speaker 2: the spoon to your plate or like your bowl of yogurt,

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Speaker 2: as to not get other items from your bowl back

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Speaker 2: into the container, because that's like when it when you

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Speaker 2: introduce other bacteria back into the the host container like that. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: that's when it ends up going bad.

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Speaker 5: Man.

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Speaker 2: You know, I don't like wasting food. So yeah, we're

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Speaker 2: we're all about that.

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Speaker 1: One of the things I caught in Steve's question, by

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Speaker 1: the way, he said he had two target date funds.

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Speaker 1: I thought that was really fascinating.

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Speaker 2: Because maybe for him and his wife, oh maybe or

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Speaker 2: maybe yeah, that's good, but he didn't say he's got

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Speaker 2: a wife. But but if he has two for himself,

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Speaker 2: that is a really interesting choice because I'm totally fine

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Speaker 2: with people having a tart date fund and then having

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Speaker 2: exposure to another fund or two as well, because really,

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Speaker 2: really what you can do is say, hey, target date

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Speaker 2: funds aren't aren't quite they're too risk averse for me,

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Speaker 2: and I want more risk in my life and so

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Speaker 2: the Paul Merriman approach.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so the target date fund along with an S

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Speaker 1: ANDPI funder, total stock market or a small cap value

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Speaker 1: fund something like that, like, go for it. But two

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Speaker 1: target date funds is an interesting choice because typically you

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Speaker 1: choose the one based on when you're most likely to retire.

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Speaker 1: So I just would tell two target date funds might

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Speaker 1: be redundant. Yeah, I mean, especially if they're five years apart.

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Speaker 1: They're pretty dang similar, and so I want the perfect blend, right.

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Speaker 1: I don't understand why you do that, so I just

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Speaker 1: want to like maybe point that out on the front end.

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Speaker 1: We'll get to the heart of your question. But two

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Speaker 1: target date funds might be overkilled. Yeah, So I will say, Steve,

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Speaker 1: if I totally get why you might think that you

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Speaker 1: are paying an additional expense for target date funds, But

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Speaker 1: the truth is you're not. The stated expense ratio on

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Speaker 1: Vanguard or even Fidelity site is exactly what you are paying.

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Speaker 2: So let's say a target date funds expense ratio is

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Speaker 2: point zero eight percent, like you mentioned there, Steve, Well,

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Speaker 2: that already reflects the fact that it owns the underlying

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Speaker 2: funds that may each have their own costs, So in

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Speaker 2: this case you are not double dipping, so no need

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Speaker 2: to worry about paying that, you know, plus the expense

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Speaker 2: of let's say the total stock market fund or a

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Speaker 2: bond fund that your target date fund is holding. So

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Speaker 2: you're essentially paying the total blended expense ratio. Like it's

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Speaker 2: the sticker price. Whatever it says right there on the

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Speaker 2: on the prospectus or on the page when you go

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Speaker 2: and check it out, that is what you're paying. It

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Speaker 2: may be a helpful way to think about. It makes

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Speaker 2: me think about like paying alack carte, Like if you

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Speaker 2: go to a restaurant or like a cafeteria, like you

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Speaker 2: can either pay alack cart or you're paying like the

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Speaker 2: buffet price. Target date funds is akin to buffet pricing.

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Speaker 2: You're a buffet guy, Matt. Yeah, you pay one price

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Speaker 2: and whatever you want on there, that's what you get.

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Speaker 1: Or you the one who got into the fight at

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Speaker 1: that Golden Corral, that's all the headlines. Apell.

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Speaker 2: I'm trying to think of the last time I've been

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Speaker 2: to a Golden Coral or no Orion's because they've got

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Speaker 2: the the yeast ye rolls. Oh my gosh, are they

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Speaker 2: still around. Ryan's yeah, I don't know.

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Speaker 1: Okay, well it makes me think of a blender, right,

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Speaker 1: so you said blend it, and I think it like

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Speaker 1: when you toss like three or four different things into

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Speaker 1: a blender, like you mix them up, like you're still

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Speaker 1: you have something kind of a new product. But really

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Speaker 1: it's the element of all those underlying products.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So the electricity that goes to power that it

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Speaker 2: doesn't matter how many things you stick in the blender,

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Speaker 2: you still are using the same amount of power to

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Speaker 2: get the initial blend.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Maybe maybe.

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Speaker 1: So I don't know if that's a great analogy, Steve,

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Speaker 1: But Matt's right, Like the listed expensory show is the

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Speaker 1: actual that's the expenses that you're paying to own that fund.

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Speaker 1: And we should note that the cost of a target

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Speaker 1: date fund is higher than buying those funds individually, right,

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Speaker 1: But the slightly higher cost is likely worth it if

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Speaker 1: you determine that a target date fund is right for you,

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Speaker 1: and that that's because the fund is going to change

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Speaker 1: its exposure of the underlying funds over time as you

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Speaker 1: get closer to retirement age. That is, like the selling

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Speaker 1: point of target date funds is set it and forget

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Speaker 1: it allow someone else to do the hard work the

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Speaker 1: rebalancing for you. You're diversified without really having to think

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Speaker 1: about it. And so instead of rebalancing on your own,

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Speaker 1: the target date fund with a slightly higher expense ratio,

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Speaker 1: it's got to set glide path. It reduces stock exposure

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Speaker 1: over time, it increases bond exposures. You get closer to

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Speaker 1: needing to tap those funds. And you know, target date

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Speaker 1: fund expense ratios are pretty darn competitive that our favorite

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Speaker 1: low cost broke just so we say they're higher, and

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Speaker 1: yes they are, but really, when it comes down to it,

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Speaker 1: they're I think a bargain for a lot of mom

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Speaker 1: and pop investors who really want to put a blindfold on.

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Speaker 1: They want to invest pretty wisely, but they just don't

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Speaker 1: want to think about it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they are more expensive, though, Like that's for me, honestly,

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Speaker 2: that is my biggest hang up and one of the

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Speaker 2: reasons I have a difficult time, Like if somebody came

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Speaker 2: to me and they're talking about what they're looking for

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Speaker 2: with their investments, to say, hey, even like the most

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Speaker 2: affordable target ate funds out at point zer eight percent,

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Speaker 2: you're looking at something that's two hundred and fifty percent

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Speaker 2: more expensive than Voo than an S and P five hundred, true,

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Speaker 2: or something that costs nothing at Fidelity if you are

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Speaker 2: going with a total stock market fund. So I still

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Speaker 2: have a really difficult time with the principle of paying

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Speaker 2: much more if you can handle the risk, right, if

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Speaker 2: you can handle the ups and downs. But oftentimes that

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Speaker 2: risk pays literal dividends because that is how you're going

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Speaker 2: to see your wealth grow the most. And that's one

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Speaker 2: of the biggest criticisms with target date funds is the

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Speaker 2: fact that they are so bond heavy. Even for like

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Speaker 2: a target day fund that's set for like twenty sixty five,

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Speaker 2: there are still more bonds bond exposure there then I

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Speaker 2: am personally looking to expose my portfolio to. So if

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Speaker 2: you are a bit more of a conservative investor, I

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Speaker 2: think a target date fund can make a bit more sense.

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Speaker 2: But even a more moderate investor I think would be

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Speaker 2: well served with either a total stock market fund. Or

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Speaker 2: if you see yourself as like no, no, no, I'm in

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Speaker 2: this for the long haul, twenty plus years, looking to

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Speaker 2: build well, looking to maybe retire, really something Okay, the

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Speaker 2: S and P five hundred, Yeah, get after it.

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Speaker 1: I think there's a difference too, between taking a simple approach,

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Speaker 1: which is something we advocate, and taking the absolute simplest approach.

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Speaker 1: And I think the Target Date Fund the reason they

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Speaker 1: exist is because for the average person who doesn't care

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Speaker 1: about personal finance, they like do have at least a

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Speaker 1: thought in their brain about investing for their future, and

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Speaker 1: they've heard it from somewhere that they probably need to

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Speaker 1: be doing something, and so inside of the FOURM and

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Speaker 1: KO work, they're like, Yeah, I'm gonna put some money

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Speaker 1: in there, which fund should I pick? And it feels

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Speaker 1: to I think the average person who has very little

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Speaker 1: knowledge like an insurmountable task to pick the right fund

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Speaker 1: for their future, and the Target Date Fund is kind

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Speaker 1: of the solution to that problem for average people. But

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Speaker 1: how to money listeners, Matt, they're not average people, they

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Speaker 1: are they can opt for something slightly more complex. I

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Speaker 1: think most of the time the topic is just a

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Speaker 1: bit more aggressive, Yeah like them aggressive, or they can

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Speaker 1: at least think about yeah, maybe maybe having like we

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Speaker 1: talked about the very beginning, two different funds of Target

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Speaker 1: date Fund and another fund that at least ramps up

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Speaker 1: the risk appetite for the average person because that is,

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Speaker 1: like we said, the biggest criticism of target date funds,

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Speaker 1: they're just not risky enough for the average investor. We also,

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Speaker 1: by the way, learned last year after a Vanguard kerfuffle

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Speaker 1: that triggered a taxable event for some of its customers.

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Speaker 1: That's right that you should hold a target date fund

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Speaker 1: inside of your retirement account, never inside of your brokerage account.

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Speaker 1: So that I think should be stressed. I think there

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Speaker 1: was a lawsuit. I think Vanguard ended up was there

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Speaker 1: settling and maybe making it right for a lot of investors.

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Speaker 1: I need to go back and look at the details

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Speaker 1: on it.

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Speaker 2: I mean that was more of a one time event,

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Speaker 2: like they're doing some restructuring recategorizing of what was considered

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Speaker 2: like is a business account like I forget the specifics,

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Speaker 2: but regardless that the same practice of what's going on

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Speaker 2: when they did that sort of one time newsworthy event

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Speaker 2: that is still happening periodically and regularly within target date

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Speaker 2: funds as they are rebalancing, and if.

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Speaker 1: You don't in the scenes, you're not really aware of it.

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Speaker 2: That's happening. Yeah, yeah, you haven't sold anything, but the

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Speaker 2: fund has, and you are required to take those as

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Speaker 2: capital gains and so if you are taxed on that,

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Speaker 2: that's why it's much more efficient to have that sitting

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Speaker 2: inside a tax exempts account like a roth IRA or tax.

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Speaker 1: Deferred Yeah, four one K. And if you're gonna go

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Speaker 1: with a target date fund, Vanguard is one of the

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Speaker 1: best places to go because of those low expense ratios.

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Speaker 1: You said, yeah, I'm Matt. They're higher than VU, but

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Speaker 1: they're like the cheapest in the industry. And so the

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Speaker 1: actual differences in expense ratio between a Vanguard target date

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Speaker 1: fund and let's say a random one from another brokerage,

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Speaker 1: a brokerage or from let's say a bank or an

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Speaker 1: insurance company, it could be insane the difference in expense ratio.

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Speaker 1: And so I would just encourage anybody who's like, okay,

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Speaker 1: target date funds so one stop shop it is the

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Speaker 1: easy thing. I should jump jump on that bandwagon. Well,

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Speaker 1: getting your target date fund through Vanguard, if that's where're

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Speaker 1: on case, provided it is one thing. Getting it from

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Speaker 1: somewhere else, it could be an even more dramatically worse

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Speaker 1: decision because the expenses could be ten x or more

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Speaker 1: the Vanguard expensory show. And that's when you want to

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Speaker 1: tread lightly. There are some really good target date funds

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Speaker 1: and then there are some really truly awful ones that

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Speaker 1: are not good for people.

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Speaker 2: That's right, man. We've got more to get to though.

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Speaker 2: We're going to cover the topic of promisory notes. That's

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Speaker 2: not something we've ever discussed here. We'll get to like

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Speaker 2: something madam monopoly and never was a huge monopoly fan myself,

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Speaker 2: so I can't completely verify that, but we'll get to

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Speaker 2: that question and more right after this.

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Speaker 1: We're back. We've got a question to get to on

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Speaker 1: fifty or mortgages and just a bit. But let's get

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Speaker 1: to a question now about picking the right healthcare plan

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Speaker 1: during open enrollment.

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Speaker 5: Hey guys, this is Greg and Tampa with a question

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Speaker 5: on your favorite topic, the HSA and high deductible plans. So,

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Speaker 5: my employer offers three deductible levels thirty five hund in

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Speaker 5: two thousand dollars each is eligible for the HSA. Basically,

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Speaker 5: each one costs different amounts per pay period, the most

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Speaker 5: expensive being the two thousand dollars plan. It's about sixty

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Speaker 5: dollars per pay period. Then you drop to about thirty

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Speaker 5: some dollars for the thirty five hundred and then the

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Speaker 5: six thousand dollars one is only about twenty bucks a

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Speaker 5: pay period. I have been playing around with these plans

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Speaker 5: the last several years, just like you've suggested paying out

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Speaker 5: of pocket saving my HSA. So what I'm kind of

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Speaker 5: thinking here is I have enough money in my HSA

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Speaker 5: to pay that six thousand dollars deductible for several years.

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Speaker 5: Once I hit that six thousand dollars deductible, I have

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Speaker 5: zero responsibility for anything else after that. The other plans,

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Speaker 5: I still would have twenty percent responsibility for any medical bill,

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Speaker 5: So I can pay the six thousand dollars for several

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Speaker 5: years and then own nothing. It seems like, now that

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Speaker 5: I have enough money in my NSA to cover that

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Speaker 5: for several years, it's the plan I should go with.

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Speaker 5: Just as an example, a couple of years ago, I

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Speaker 5: had a torn ligament from a run. One of my

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Speaker 5: feet doctors visits MRI. All of that I was on

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Speaker 5: the two thousand dollars plan, and I still didn't hit

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Speaker 5: my deductible because I went online and found the cheapest

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Speaker 5: options for everything, including the MRI. So it just seems

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Speaker 5: like the six thousand dollars one is the way to go,

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Speaker 5: especially since I have the HSA money, just pay the

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Speaker 5: lowest premium possible and be covered and kind of used

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Speaker 5: the health insurance for really emergencies only. Anyway, let me

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Speaker 5: know what you think. Am I being frugal? Am I

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Speaker 5: being cheap? What do you think?

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Speaker 2: Man? Greg said he didn't even hit his two thousand

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Speaker 2: dollars deductible with an MRI on the books, plus doctors

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Speaker 2: visits Greg's in Florida. Maybe there's some really affordable healthcare

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Speaker 2: please call it back, Alley MRI and here they're really

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Speaker 2: get It always makes me think of that scene in

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Speaker 2: Minority Report where he gets his eyes swapped out there

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Speaker 2: in the bathtub and like to hill up. So gross,

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Speaker 2: the most disgusting quasi medical scene I think I've ever

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Speaker 2: seen in a past of sci fi.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, movie, but that's a weird one. And that, by

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Speaker 1: the way, like this question Greg said was about HSA's

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Speaker 1: We do love hsas, but it actually sounds like what

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Speaker 1: Greg is asking about is less really HSA related, because

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Speaker 1: he said that every plan that he's being offered to

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Speaker 1: him comes with HSA access, so it's not a choice

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Speaker 1: between choosing the plan with or without an HSA eligibility

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Speaker 1: and also HSA adjacent. Yeah, Greg knows what he's doing

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Speaker 1: on the HSA front, so it doesn't sound like we

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Speaker 1: have a lot that we need to discuss on that front.

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Speaker 1: I think what he's really asking is whether it makes

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Speaker 1: sense to go with the healthcare plan that costs less

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Speaker 1: but has a higher deductible, which is one of the

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Speaker 1: most important questions during open enrollment. I think it's one

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Speaker 1: that people rack their brains over, largely because can't predict

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Speaker 1: the future perfectly and there's big money at stake.

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Speaker 2: That's right, Yeah, So I'm going to cut to the chase, Greg,

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Speaker 2: based on what you said, I think the slam dunk

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Speaker 2: answer here is yes to go with the higher deductible plan.

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Speaker 2: It sounds like, generally speaking, you are mostly healthy and

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Speaker 2: even when something does pop up, which it sounds like

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Speaker 2: for you is rare, you don't even meet your deductible.

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Speaker 2: So since you are going to be saving money every

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Speaker 2: single paycheck on your premiums, I would go ahead and

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Speaker 2: take those savings to the bank. So I even did

435
00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:25,400
Speaker 2: the math here based on the numbers that you gave

436
00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:27,800
Speaker 2: as far as how much is coming out of your paycheck,

437
00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:30,639
Speaker 2: and this is assuming you get paid every other week.

438
00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:34,000
Speaker 2: Your premiums are going to be five hundred and twenty

439
00:20:34,040 --> 00:20:38,120
Speaker 2: dollars for the six thousand dollars deductible plan as opposed

440
00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:42,240
Speaker 2: to one five hundred and sixty dollars for the two

441
00:20:42,280 --> 00:20:44,920
Speaker 2: thousand dollars plan, which means that you're going to be

442
00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:47,600
Speaker 2: shilling out more than one thousand dollars more for the

443
00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:51,960
Speaker 2: guarantee of that lower deductible, which I don't think is

444
00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:55,760
Speaker 2: worth it given you your situation here, given your circumstances.

445
00:20:55,840 --> 00:20:58,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, when you look at the premium discrepancy between the

446
00:20:58,359 --> 00:21:01,160
Speaker 1: cheapest and the middle plan, it's less so I guess

447
00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:03,639
Speaker 1: you could opt to spend a couple hundred more dollars

448
00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:06,679
Speaker 1: over the course of a year for a reduced deductible.

449
00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:10,919
Speaker 1: That might be the goldilocks option. But the six thousand

450
00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:15,240
Speaker 1: dollars deductible option doesn't have the twenty percent co insurance

451
00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:17,560
Speaker 1: cost to you after meeting your deductible. Yea, so it's

452
00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:20,359
Speaker 1: less attractive to me. Is like a sweet perk to

453
00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:21,919
Speaker 1: not have to worry about it at all. Yeah, to

454
00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:24,440
Speaker 1: know that that's literally the cap of what you would

455
00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:26,800
Speaker 1: be paying out of pocket in a given year. Also,

456
00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:29,520
Speaker 1: Greg like you're well prepared, like you've saved, You've invested

457
00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:32,359
Speaker 1: money for future health care expenses, so you can afford

458
00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:35,240
Speaker 1: to take a higher level of deductible risk. It sounds

459
00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:37,479
Speaker 1: like you're also more than willing to shop around if

460
00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:40,359
Speaker 1: you need a procedure, right, like using Healthcare blue Book

461
00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:44,119
Speaker 1: and sites like that. It's easier said than done, but

462
00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:46,919
Speaker 1: if you're willing to do it and go through the work,

463
00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:50,320
Speaker 1: then I think that will also help you reduce healthcare costs,

464
00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:53,320
Speaker 1: meaning the higher deductible plan makes even more sense for you.

465
00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:56,560
Speaker 1: That sort of scrappiness just makes us think the high

466
00:21:56,560 --> 00:21:59,480
Speaker 1: deductible plan is like an awesome choice.

467
00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:02,879
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you can there's no guarantee that this is

468
00:22:03,119 --> 00:22:05,040
Speaker 2: absolutely going to be the right trunes right, Like you

469
00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:07,240
Speaker 2: can't look into the future. You don't know what your

470
00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:08,919
Speaker 2: health events are going to be in the future, but

471
00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:11,480
Speaker 2: you are making an informed decision based on your likely

472
00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:13,960
Speaker 2: healthcare needs plus the money that you have on hand.

473
00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:16,159
Speaker 2: It makes me think about like if you makes me

474
00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:18,960
Speaker 2: think about your house, like where you had the tree

475
00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:21,760
Speaker 2: branch come through your roof and I had the most

476
00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:25,320
Speaker 2: or I had like a one percent deductible which basically

477
00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:26,200
Speaker 2: was a lot of money.

478
00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:28,840
Speaker 1: Meant, when the tree fell through, I was on the

479
00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:31,840
Speaker 1: hook for a large chunk of the repairs.

480
00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:34,280
Speaker 2: Lots and lots of money. But you don't regret it

481
00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:36,600
Speaker 2: did right, Like at the time you said, I do

482
00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:38,320
Speaker 2: not regret that. I don't regret it, and you did

483
00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:41,080
Speaker 2: not change your It was still the right financial move

484
00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:42,800
Speaker 2: and it will pay off. Let's say, if I don't

485
00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:44,800
Speaker 2: have a homeowner's claim for the next eight to ten

486
00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:47,600
Speaker 2: years and just got unlucky, it'll easily it'll easily pay

487
00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:49,920
Speaker 2: having that higher deductible and lower premiums.

488
00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:52,639
Speaker 1: But it doesn't doesn't mean it works out all the

489
00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:53,639
Speaker 1: time every year exactly.

490
00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:56,960
Speaker 2: Yeah. It's similarly like you could drop a collision coverage

491
00:22:57,000 --> 00:22:59,280
Speaker 2: on your vehicle and then like the very next day

492
00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:01,800
Speaker 2: you could get in a wreck. And I think that

493
00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:04,840
Speaker 2: sort of the what ifs and the fear, like that's

494
00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:08,760
Speaker 2: what insurance companies they kind of pray on that. They

495
00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:11,080
Speaker 2: pray on those emotions and get you to give them

496
00:23:11,119 --> 00:23:13,479
Speaker 2: all your money, right as opposed to doing a degree

497
00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:17,600
Speaker 2: of self ensuring. And we are all for that. So,

498
00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:19,639
Speaker 2: like we talked about it from a financial standpoint, but

499
00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:23,720
Speaker 2: like from a principal standpoint, we advocate for personal responsibility,

500
00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:26,680
Speaker 2: right like taking your personal responsibility for your own actions.

501
00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:29,959
Speaker 2: That is personal finance. And so whether we're talking about

502
00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:33,760
Speaker 2: earning or saving, or spending or investing or in the

503
00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:38,160
Speaker 2: case of riskier behaviors that you could partake in that

504
00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:40,560
Speaker 2: could lead to higher expenses not only for you but

505
00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:42,680
Speaker 2: for everybody, right Like, that's the point of insurance is

506
00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:46,840
Speaker 2: is for those costs to be diffused among the public.

507
00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:50,600
Speaker 2: But it's more efficient if you, as an individual who

508
00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:53,679
Speaker 2: is the one making those decisions, if you bear the

509
00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:56,119
Speaker 2: brunt of those expenses. Right Like, you want to smoke,

510
00:23:56,600 --> 00:23:59,720
Speaker 2: go for it, but your health insurance is going to

511
00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:02,120
Speaker 2: be and rightly so should be a lot more expensive.

512
00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:05,240
Speaker 2: Same thing with like people who bungee jump or skydive,

513
00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:07,600
Speaker 2: like these are risk or like rock climbing or something like,

514
00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:11,080
Speaker 2: these are riskier endeavors. And there's a reason why different

515
00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:14,080
Speaker 2: types of insurance ask the kind of activities that you

516
00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:17,000
Speaker 2: participate in that you partake in. Yeah, and when we're

517
00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:19,439
Speaker 2: talking about self insuring, like there's a whole bunch of

518
00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:22,480
Speaker 2: different kinds of insurance you can avoid or that you

519
00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:24,960
Speaker 2: can pay less for the more money you have stacked

520
00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:25,760
Speaker 2: up in your bank account.

521
00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:25,919
Speaker 5: There.

522
00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:28,240
Speaker 1: It doesn't mean you like eradicate insurance from your life

523
00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:31,359
Speaker 1: like you still want probably a term life policy unless

524
00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:34,720
Speaker 1: you're completely financially independent, right, there are certain kinds of

525
00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:37,560
Speaker 1: insurance you're always going to want to have because the

526
00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:42,520
Speaker 1: risk is so high and the cost is so seemingly low,

527
00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:44,720
Speaker 1: even though it's like your homeowners insurance might it might

528
00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:47,159
Speaker 1: cost thousands of dollars a year, but the cost of

529
00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:48,800
Speaker 1: replacing your home if it order to burn down in

530
00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:51,200
Speaker 1: a fire could be hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of

531
00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:53,360
Speaker 1: thousands of dollars a year. And even if you would ruin,

532
00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:56,000
Speaker 1: you quote unquote have that, like yeah, you'd you'd be

533
00:24:56,040 --> 00:24:58,600
Speaker 1: going going back to square one. It makes me think

534
00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:02,359
Speaker 1: that people use. People who do not have a level

535
00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:04,760
Speaker 1: of self insurance a level of savings, they I think

536
00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:08,720
Speaker 1: are more induced to buy products, insurance products out of fear,

537
00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:11,720
Speaker 1: like extended warranties. This is one of those things where

538
00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:15,240
Speaker 1: you're buying an electronics item and you're asked whether or

539
00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:18,040
Speaker 1: not or by even like an airline ticket or a

540
00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:22,720
Speaker 1: concert ticket, Like there's insurance for everything now, and I

541
00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:26,880
Speaker 1: think the more tenuous your financial position the more likely

542
00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:28,840
Speaker 1: you are to be like, yeah, I guess I should

543
00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:31,239
Speaker 1: get that insurance product just in case, And then you're

544
00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:35,119
Speaker 1: spending more money on insurance because you didn't have the

545
00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:38,560
Speaker 1: discipline to create the savings to self insurre, especially for

546
00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:40,840
Speaker 1: some of those smaller things in life. But Greg, he

547
00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:43,439
Speaker 1: doesn't have to worry about that. He's well insured and

548
00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:47,000
Speaker 1: he cannot perform the higher deductible plan save himself some

549
00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:47,800
Speaker 1: money in the process.

550
00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:48,399
Speaker 2: That's right, man.

551
00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:48,719
Speaker 5: All right.

552
00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:52,199
Speaker 2: Let's hear from another listener who has found herself in

553
00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:55,640
Speaker 2: a sticky situation. She sold her house and at the

554
00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:59,320
Speaker 2: center of this interaction is a promissory note. Let's hear

555
00:25:59,359 --> 00:25:59,960
Speaker 2: what she has for us.

556
00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:04,440
Speaker 4: Hey, guys, it's Cheryl from Nebraska. About a year ago,

557
00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:08,080
Speaker 4: I sold the house in rural Nebraska and had one

558
00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:12,719
Speaker 4: bed on the house, and she couldn't come up with

559
00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:15,960
Speaker 4: the extra ten thousand dollars needed for the purchase of

560
00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:20,200
Speaker 4: the house. So I let her sign a promisory note

561
00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:24,200
Speaker 4: through an attorney, and she promised to.

562
00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:29,159
Speaker 6: Pay me this year. And now she is not paying me.

563
00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:32,960
Speaker 6: I hired an attorney and they can't even seem to

564
00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:35,960
Speaker 6: get the money. They've taken her court. I do have

565
00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:39,280
Speaker 6: a leen on the house that she currently lives in.

566
00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:42,920
Speaker 6: I didn't know if there's any other thing I could

567
00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:46,880
Speaker 6: do legally. Thanks guys, man, I.

568
00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:48,359
Speaker 2: Think, Joel, this is gonna be a fun question. You know,

569
00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:53,560
Speaker 2: why why because we know nothing about because we're not attorneys.

570
00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:55,280
Speaker 1: That's true, and we have to say that at the beginning.

571
00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:57,879
Speaker 1: I think, especially with a question like this, Yeah, that's

572
00:26:57,920 --> 00:26:59,560
Speaker 1: probably true. I like, did sleep at a holiday and

573
00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:01,600
Speaker 1: last night, so I'm pretty sure I'm well equipped answer

574
00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:03,880
Speaker 1: this question. No, but I think you know, even though

575
00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:06,800
Speaker 1: we're not lawyers, wanted to take Cheryl's question because we

576
00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:09,879
Speaker 1: thought we could offer some helpful advice. And I just

577
00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:12,320
Speaker 1: want to start off from the outset. You might not

578
00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:16,000
Speaker 1: even want to go to the legal route. Like if

579
00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:17,600
Speaker 1: you met this woman at the closing table, you had

580
00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:20,720
Speaker 1: a solid interaction, I would consider sending a kind note

581
00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:23,840
Speaker 1: reminding her of her obligation to you. You might find

582
00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:26,720
Speaker 1: that using a human touch instead of sending lawyers after

583
00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:29,439
Speaker 1: her gets her engaging with you. It'll cost you a

584
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:32,720
Speaker 1: whole lot less money too, Like Matt, as anybody knows,

585
00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:35,800
Speaker 1: like lawyers, fees can add up a lot. Makes me

586
00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:39,520
Speaker 1: think of one time I had a tenant who you know,

587
00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:41,680
Speaker 1: was not paying me the balance that was owed after

588
00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:44,119
Speaker 1: he moved out. He lived in the neighborhood, and so

589
00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:47,600
Speaker 1: I just like kindly went to him in person, like.

590
00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:52,400
Speaker 2: At a public place, and did you arrive with your biggest,

591
00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:54,000
Speaker 2: most buffist friend.

592
00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:59,800
Speaker 1: No, me solo, totally not buff totally not threatening. Not true,

593
00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:03,280
Speaker 1: It's not threatening at all. Now that I have the mustache,

594
00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:06,639
Speaker 1: maybe a little more. But and like it was, it

595
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:08,520
Speaker 1: was a chance for me not to even shame him

596
00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:10,560
Speaker 1: or get mad or angry, but just to just to

597
00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:13,280
Speaker 1: be human, person to person, be human and say, hey, man,

598
00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:15,879
Speaker 1: like you still owe me money, how do we remedy this?

599
00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:19,200
Speaker 1: And he paid me. But that was one of those

600
00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:21,560
Speaker 1: things where I could have gone the legal route and

601
00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:23,359
Speaker 1: it would have cost me more than it was worth

602
00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:25,560
Speaker 1: in terms of money and in terms of hassle.

603
00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:28,760
Speaker 2: That's true. Yeah, in Cheryl's case, it does sound like

604
00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:30,560
Speaker 2: and we're going to cover a bunch of this, I think,

605
00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:34,240
Speaker 2: because it'll be helpful for other listeners who may not

606
00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:37,359
Speaker 2: be as familiar with the situation and the steps that

607
00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:39,400
Speaker 2: you can take. But it does sound like Cheryl has

608
00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:42,080
Speaker 2: run through some of these a lot of these steps already,

609
00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:46,040
Speaker 2: but we will also get to the heart of Cheryl's

610
00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:49,160
Speaker 2: question later. But Jolie specifically, you mentioned fees and just

611
00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:52,760
Speaker 2: being able to avoid those, not only attorney's fees, court fees,

612
00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:55,280
Speaker 2: filing fees, all that kind of stuff adds up pretty

613
00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:59,640
Speaker 2: dang quickly. And if this individual chooses not to pay, like,

614
00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:02,239
Speaker 2: not only are you out the ten thousand dollars, but

615
00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:05,600
Speaker 2: you're also out these additional legal fees as well, assuming

616
00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:08,720
Speaker 2: that you don't win a judgment and she's not required

617
00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:10,320
Speaker 2: to pay them. And I just wouldn't want to see

618
00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:14,280
Speaker 2: you toss good money after bad it. Like, obviously it

619
00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:16,200
Speaker 2: sucks to be taken advantage of, but I think in

620
00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:18,920
Speaker 2: your frustration, like, I still want you to make as

621
00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:22,120
Speaker 2: wise of a decision as possible, not necessarily making one

622
00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:25,920
Speaker 2: on principle, because it doesn't necessarily matter if you are

623
00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:29,000
Speaker 2: moving forward on principle if there's no actual money to

624
00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:31,840
Speaker 2: be to be gained to be paid to you. But

625
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:34,720
Speaker 2: I would just be reluctant to spend thousands of dollars

626
00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:38,960
Speaker 2: to go after this woman who may not even have

627
00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:42,000
Speaker 2: the money to be able to recoup or to fulfill

628
00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:44,400
Speaker 2: the promise that she made with that promisory note.

629
00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:47,200
Speaker 1: That's right. Yeah, I think the next step after kindly

630
00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:49,760
Speaker 1: reaching out would likely to be sent a formal demand letter.

631
00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:51,480
Speaker 1: I'm sure you've already done that, but you send it

632
00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:55,400
Speaker 1: certified mail, return receipt requested. You know, state in that

633
00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:57,960
Speaker 1: letter that failure to pay could result in legal action.

634
00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:01,840
Speaker 1: But you're basically like ramping up those tactics slowly, like

635
00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:06,080
Speaker 1: gentle reminder, gradually tightening the screws right exactly, then sending

636
00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:08,959
Speaker 1: something more formal. You can write this yourself. You can

637
00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:11,720
Speaker 1: hire an attorney, which costs money, but it could also

638
00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:13,440
Speaker 1: be more likely to get her attention. But that might

639
00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:16,800
Speaker 1: be the inexpensive use of an attorney. I've you been

640
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:20,080
Speaker 1: used in the past, Matt attorney friends who I'm like, hey,

641
00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:22,600
Speaker 1: it says lawyer after your name, right, Like will you

642
00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:24,560
Speaker 1: write this letter for me? Or can I write it?

643
00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:27,120
Speaker 2: And can you put it on your are now my lawyer? Right?

644
00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:29,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, something like that. I mean, I don't know how

645
00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:31,760
Speaker 1: kosher that is, but how good do.

646
00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:34,960
Speaker 2: They feel about vu? That's a good question. But well,

647
00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:38,320
Speaker 2: so after that though, Ryl and I think we're kind

648
00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:40,800
Speaker 2: of catching up to where you are now suing her

649
00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:43,720
Speaker 2: right suing her in small claims court taking it up

650
00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:46,080
Speaker 2: another notch, and you can do that without hiring a

651
00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:48,480
Speaker 2: lawyer as well, depending on how into the weeds that

652
00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:51,280
Speaker 2: you've gotten. But with that promisory note in hand, you

653
00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:55,080
Speaker 2: should be able to argue your point well without legal

654
00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:57,600
Speaker 2: representation because it's all spelled out as to what it

655
00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:00,960
Speaker 2: is that she was supposed to do and the fact

656
00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:03,280
Speaker 2: that she hasn't. Just to note though, that you might

657
00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:06,160
Speaker 2: win the case and still have trouble collecting.

658
00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:07,960
Speaker 1: So that's the hard.

659
00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:11,520
Speaker 2: Part, is actually collecting, collecting the money after the judgment.

660
00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:15,080
Speaker 2: So like, so she's already got a lien on the house, right,

661
00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:17,040
Speaker 2: and so again this is sort of the crux of

662
00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:19,480
Speaker 2: Cheryl's question, and she's asking what else can she do?

663
00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:23,440
Speaker 2: Even a lien on the house, there are so many

664
00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:28,440
Speaker 2: hurdles before you can get money from the sale of

665
00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:31,680
Speaker 2: that house. And so you're thinking, well, you wouldn't get paid,

666
00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:35,959
Speaker 2: first of all, unless she refinanced or if the house sold.

667
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:39,120
Speaker 2: But you might be saying, well, no, you can't you

668
00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:41,640
Speaker 2: force the sale of our property, like you know, we're

669
00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:44,040
Speaker 2: talking about an auction here, and yes that's true, but

670
00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:47,240
Speaker 2: also in the state of Nebraska, there is one hundred

671
00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:51,240
Speaker 2: and twenty thousand dollars of equity that's protected from payments

672
00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:54,720
Speaker 2: like this. Wow. In addition to that, though she's last

673
00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:57,000
Speaker 2: on the list as far as people who are getting paid,

674
00:31:57,600 --> 00:32:00,720
Speaker 2: were they to force the sale of that home, meaning.

675
00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:03,200
Speaker 1: Even after the current homeowner's own equity like takes a

676
00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:05,120
Speaker 1: primary seat in order.

677
00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:07,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then and then you've got to pay the

678
00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:11,800
Speaker 2: first leanholder, which is the mortgage company. So there's just

679
00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:15,400
Speaker 2: a whole lot of hurdles before even having being able

680
00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:17,960
Speaker 2: to do something with that lean where that will get

681
00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:20,120
Speaker 2: you paid. In addition to that, though you've got there's

682
00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:22,280
Speaker 2: like evidently two and this is the fun part. Well,

683
00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:23,680
Speaker 2: this is why I think this is fun because it

684
00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:26,360
Speaker 2: gets to do some research and learn things that we've

685
00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:28,920
Speaker 2: not learned that we've not interacted with before, which is

686
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:32,480
Speaker 2: garnishing wages. But that's really hard to do a because

687
00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:34,360
Speaker 2: you need to know the exact employer that she has

688
00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:36,400
Speaker 2: their address for them to be able to be served

689
00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:39,520
Speaker 2: to where they're siphoning off a portion of her paycheck.

690
00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:42,000
Speaker 2: But even then it takes a long time because only

691
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:45,120
Speaker 2: twenty five percent of her paycheck can go towards this

692
00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:47,200
Speaker 2: payment of what she owes you, So it can take

693
00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:50,720
Speaker 2: a really long time. And that's assuming she's gainfully employed.

694
00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:53,520
Speaker 2: If she's self employed, guess what, that's not a wage

695
00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:57,160
Speaker 2: you can garnish. Yeah, And then the other option, the

696
00:32:57,160 --> 00:33:00,600
Speaker 2: third option is a bank levy, but similar you have

697
00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:02,800
Speaker 2: to know the exact bank that she's with, and I

698
00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:05,200
Speaker 2: think it really helps to know the like the exact

699
00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:08,920
Speaker 2: bank account. And even once you have that information, if

700
00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:12,080
Speaker 2: there's no money in the account, well there's nothing. You

701
00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:14,600
Speaker 2: can't take any funds out, like you can't squeeze make

702
00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:16,760
Speaker 2: a what's the term, You can't squeez blood out out

703
00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:19,280
Speaker 2: of a stone, out of a rock or whatever. And

704
00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:20,880
Speaker 2: so at the end of the day, like, that's where

705
00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:23,400
Speaker 2: that promisory note it does. I don't know if it's

706
00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:26,000
Speaker 2: going to come to bear much fruit, because yes, you

707
00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:27,760
Speaker 2: can say that this person owes you, but if they

708
00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:30,520
Speaker 2: literally don't have any money, there's not Unfortunately, there's not

709
00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:32,080
Speaker 2: a whole lot of additional options.

710
00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:34,280
Speaker 1: Sounds promising up front with the offer. It's like, hey,

711
00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:37,960
Speaker 1: we're gonna make minus ten k. It literally sounds promising, right,

712
00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:41,800
Speaker 1: and then ultimately when it comes down to it, holding

713
00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:44,959
Speaker 1: the promissory note can feel like holding a pile of ashes,

714
00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:48,480
Speaker 1: Like it's just there's not much to it, especially if

715
00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:51,600
Speaker 1: the person is keen on avoiding pain. And so I

716
00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:54,480
Speaker 1: hate that for you, Cheryl, so so sorry. Like sucks,

717
00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:56,880
Speaker 1: it really sucks. Terrible position to be in. And this

718
00:33:56,960 --> 00:33:58,400
Speaker 1: is I think this should be a warning to other

719
00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:00,880
Speaker 1: people out there right that the the buyer might even

720
00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:03,680
Speaker 1: have the best of intentions when signing the promisory note,

721
00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:07,120
Speaker 1: but has either been unable or unwilling to pay. And yeah,

722
00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:10,040
Speaker 1: you have a little bit of recourse here, but there's

723
00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:11,880
Speaker 1: still a chance you don't fully collect her that it

724
00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:14,120
Speaker 1: takes a lot of time and patience to get that money. Yeah,

725
00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:15,880
Speaker 1: and that's where I think the like kind of what

726
00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:17,680
Speaker 1: I was talking about at the beginning, that sort of

727
00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:22,040
Speaker 1: human approach, the kind human approach, is potentially the best

728
00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:25,799
Speaker 1: way to collect your money. Gosh, it's so frustrating to

729
00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:28,600
Speaker 1: be in the right and then also to not be

730
00:34:28,680 --> 00:34:32,160
Speaker 1: able to get paid what's you're owed. I realized that

731
00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:37,080
Speaker 1: that's a really tough position to be in. But to

732
00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:38,640
Speaker 1: be honest, you all have to be pragmatic here, and

733
00:34:38,640 --> 00:34:39,960
Speaker 1: we just don't want you to spend lots of money

734
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:43,080
Speaker 1: on legal fees where you're like, yeah, they're gonna be

735
00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:44,880
Speaker 1: out not only the ten grand, but more money on

736
00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:45,160
Speaker 1: top of it.

737
00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:47,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, because if they don't have this person, if she

738
00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:48,840
Speaker 2: doesn't have the money to be able to pay you

739
00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:51,240
Speaker 2: the ten thousand dollars that she owes you, she definitely

740
00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:54,000
Speaker 2: doesn't have the money to be able to cover attorney's fees.

741
00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:57,160
Speaker 2: It honestly puts promisory notes in a new light for me,

742
00:34:57,280 --> 00:35:00,680
Speaker 2: Like they are kind of sketchy, like they kind of everything,

743
00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:04,840
Speaker 2: but there's no power that they actually have and you

744
00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:07,280
Speaker 2: being able to get your money or they're just so impotent,

745
00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:09,640
Speaker 2: right that, Yeah, they're kind of worthless. Yeah, Like it

746
00:35:09,719 --> 00:35:12,120
Speaker 2: kind of outlines everything. But like that's okay, great, now

747
00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:14,680
Speaker 2: we know what the problem is. But you know, it's

748
00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:17,440
Speaker 2: sort of like getting a diagnosis. But then you're kind

749
00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:19,000
Speaker 2: of like, well, I don't have the money to fix

750
00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:22,000
Speaker 2: my car. It's great to know that whatever, I don't know,

751
00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:25,480
Speaker 2: timing bell's not timing like it used to. That's what

752
00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:28,839
Speaker 2: a timing bell does, right, something like that. I guess

753
00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:31,480
Speaker 2: that's the first step, But it doesn't mean that you

754
00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:32,840
Speaker 2: automatically get your funds.

755
00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:35,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, wish you the best of luck, though, Cheryl Matt,

756
00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:38,160
Speaker 1: We've got more to get to, including a listener who

757
00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:40,960
Speaker 1: wants to help other people out with their money questions.

758
00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:51,200
Speaker 1: We'll get to that and more right after this. Right body,

759
00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:52,600
Speaker 1: we are back from the break.

760
00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:54,880
Speaker 2: It's now time for the Facebook question of the week.

761
00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:59,200
Speaker 2: You mentioned the personal finance good Samaritan, and that's this

762
00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:02,600
Speaker 2: listener right here, Victoria. She wrote, I'm interested in getting

763
00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:04,960
Speaker 2: training to be able to offer people one on one,

764
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:08,920
Speaker 2: pro bono financial help, budget planning, saving money, debt relief,

765
00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:13,840
Speaker 2: et cetera, not investing advice. Becoming a CFP seems daunting

766
00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:17,759
Speaker 2: and expensive. Are there any other trainings or certifications that

767
00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:21,200
Speaker 2: can make me qualified to do this kind of volunteer work.

768
00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:24,960
Speaker 1: I think it's so cool that Victoria wants to help

769
00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:26,839
Speaker 1: people with your money and that she just wants to

770
00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:29,520
Speaker 1: do it at no cost, Like that She's just like, Hey,

771
00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:32,600
Speaker 1: I feel like I've learned a lot and I see

772
00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:34,600
Speaker 1: that there's a need out there. How can I be

773
00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:37,160
Speaker 1: a part of helping other people succeed with their finances?

774
00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:40,279
Speaker 1: That rocks And I'm also I agree with her that

775
00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:42,279
Speaker 1: she doesn't need to become a CFP to do this,

776
00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:44,759
Speaker 1: I think I would be like bringing a bazooka to

777
00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:48,480
Speaker 1: a knife fight. Like, you just be overkill, especially since

778
00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:50,520
Speaker 1: you're planning on focusing on like the building blocks of

779
00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:54,920
Speaker 1: personal finance and you're not offering complex or specific investing advice.

780
00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:58,600
Speaker 1: Avoiding the long and arduous and costly CFP route makes

781
00:36:58,640 --> 00:37:00,640
Speaker 1: the most sense, and honestly so you might not need

782
00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:03,960
Speaker 1: any education. There are just a lot of great money

783
00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:07,879
Speaker 1: coaches out there, yeah, who are offering advice basically based

784
00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:10,480
Speaker 1: on their hard earned wisdom and the DIY knowledge they

785
00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:11,279
Speaker 1: have gained over the.

786
00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:12,840
Speaker 2: Years, the school of hard knocks.

787
00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:15,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, and like we've even had some of those people

788
00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:17,279
Speaker 1: on the show in the past. Like they have a

789
00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:20,520
Speaker 1: lot of wisdom to offer, and they don't have a

790
00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:23,440
Speaker 1: bunch of fancy letters after their name or even a

791
00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:26,680
Speaker 1: bunch of years in a school and a degree hanging

792
00:37:26,719 --> 00:37:30,640
Speaker 1: on the wall. It's just, Hey, I've been through the ringer,

793
00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:33,080
Speaker 1: look at my story. Here's what I've done. I want

794
00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:33,839
Speaker 1: to help you do the same.

795
00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:36,360
Speaker 2: Totally, And if so, I would totally be willing to

796
00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:39,520
Speaker 2: consider Victoria coming on the show to talk about her

797
00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:42,520
Speaker 2: heart and why she wants to do this, But she's

798
00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:47,280
Speaker 2: wanting specifics here, let's talk about some of these different certifications.

799
00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:53,040
Speaker 2: The APFC is the Accredited Personal Finance Coach designation. It's

800
00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:56,280
Speaker 2: totally legit costs around fifteen hundred bucks, which is worth

801
00:37:56,280 --> 00:37:59,719
Speaker 2: looking into. There's another one as well, that's called the AFC,

802
00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:03,759
Speaker 2: and so that's the Accredited Financial Counselor designation. That's another

803
00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:06,680
Speaker 2: one that's worth considering. It's also at a similar price point,

804
00:38:06,719 --> 00:38:10,759
Speaker 2: not too expensive. And I think for both of those

805
00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:14,960
Speaker 2: and just other certifications as well, I would check in

806
00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:19,080
Speaker 2: and see if they require annual renewals and what those

807
00:38:19,120 --> 00:38:21,200
Speaker 2: costs as well. And while we're talking about costs and fees,

808
00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:24,799
Speaker 2: you know, I really would consider charging your clients like

809
00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:29,600
Speaker 2: something truly, even if it's like a massively discounted rate

810
00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:31,480
Speaker 2: in like maybe you're only charging like twenty bucks an

811
00:38:31,480 --> 00:38:34,480
Speaker 2: hour or something like that. I think this could lead

812
00:38:34,520 --> 00:38:37,680
Speaker 2: to better results because when your clients, when they've got

813
00:38:37,719 --> 00:38:39,600
Speaker 2: some skin in the game, I think it tends to

814
00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:41,840
Speaker 2: lead to people taking things a bit more seriously. And

815
00:38:41,880 --> 00:38:43,960
Speaker 2: then all of a sudden, you're meeting with folks who

816
00:38:44,040 --> 00:38:47,600
Speaker 2: are truly motivated to change their habits, and they're listening

817
00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:49,520
Speaker 2: to what you're saying, they're showing up for the meetings

818
00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:51,719
Speaker 2: as opposed to you sitting there on zoom waiting for

819
00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:53,680
Speaker 2: them to show up, or at the coffee shop. Maybe

820
00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:56,000
Speaker 2: you're doing it in person. So this is not just

821
00:38:56,040 --> 00:38:58,799
Speaker 2: a way to I don't know, have enough money to

822
00:38:58,800 --> 00:39:02,239
Speaker 2: be able to cover the cost of coffee while you

823
00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:04,719
Speaker 2: are out. But also this truly could lead to better

824
00:39:04,760 --> 00:39:06,480
Speaker 2: results down the road for the folks that you aren't

825
00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:07,680
Speaker 2: actually trying to help. That's right.

826
00:39:07,719 --> 00:39:11,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, My wife is a therapist at a nonprofit organization

827
00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:15,279
Speaker 1: and the people it's free, no, but it's able to

828
00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:17,960
Speaker 1: be significantly discounted. Here you go, so she can see

829
00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:20,440
Speaker 1: people who can pay as little as twenty five dollars

830
00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:24,279
Speaker 1: per visit. And I think it makes sense that it's

831
00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:28,240
Speaker 1: not just like free therapy for everyone, and it's highly targeted.

832
00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:32,440
Speaker 1: But also the expectation is that you pay a little

833
00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:36,720
Speaker 1: something and if you miss your appointment, you are charged

834
00:39:36,840 --> 00:39:39,640
Speaker 1: the fee. And it does keep people accountable to saying like,

835
00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:41,920
Speaker 1: if you're going to do this, let's do it, like

836
00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:45,160
Speaker 1: we'll give you a steep discount. Because therapy is expensive.

837
00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:48,200
Speaker 1: We know that, but it's not totally free. And there

838
00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:50,360
Speaker 1: is something I think good about that model, So I

839
00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:53,040
Speaker 1: think that's I think it's a good point, Matt. And again,

840
00:39:53,080 --> 00:39:55,000
Speaker 1: you might not even need to have certification if you

841
00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:56,799
Speaker 1: want to avoid that cost and you feel like you

842
00:39:56,840 --> 00:39:59,399
Speaker 1: have enough knowledge. I would share the highlights of your

843
00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:01,879
Speaker 1: story actively if you can get that across. Maybe get

844
00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:04,719
Speaker 1: some reviews from people who have used your services, like

845
00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:07,360
Speaker 1: you can have friends and family that you offer you

846
00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:10,640
Speaker 1: a session two for free. As you're kind of building

847
00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:17,040
Speaker 1: a portfolio of people who have used you for financial advice,

848
00:40:17,320 --> 00:40:19,640
Speaker 1: put those front and center on a website, right, and

849
00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:22,440
Speaker 1: then that effective marketing and doing great work is going

850
00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:25,960
Speaker 1: to ensure that you're able to reach the audience you want.

851
00:40:26,239 --> 00:40:28,080
Speaker 1: And please do, please do let us know when your

852
00:40:28,120 --> 00:40:30,319
Speaker 1: business is live so we can let how to money

853
00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:32,280
Speaker 1: listeners know about this resource of coure.

854
00:40:32,440 --> 00:40:33,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, we got to tell you and do another one.

855
00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:35,640
Speaker 2: We're here real quick. Let's do it all right. This

856
00:40:35,680 --> 00:40:38,319
Speaker 2: is from Ellen. This is actually not a question, that's

857
00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:40,960
Speaker 2: a comment, and she wrote, you are way off on

858
00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:44,240
Speaker 2: the fifty year mortgage. This would allow people who cannot

859
00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:47,080
Speaker 2: afford higher payments to qualify and to otherwise have the

860
00:40:47,120 --> 00:40:50,839
Speaker 2: benefits of home ownership. Also, they would otherwise be paying

861
00:40:50,960 --> 00:40:54,920
Speaker 2: rent a useless thing, not building towards anything, rather than

862
00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:58,279
Speaker 2: building towards something and again having their first step into

863
00:40:58,280 --> 00:41:01,000
Speaker 2: home ownership. As I note with you, you seem to

864
00:41:01,040 --> 00:41:03,640
Speaker 2: tweak your comments to try and keep people out of

865
00:41:03,680 --> 00:41:06,200
Speaker 2: the benefits of owning real estate. Joel, why do you

866
00:41:06,239 --> 00:41:08,480
Speaker 2: hate renters? Why do you want people to just to

867
00:41:08,520 --> 00:41:11,279
Speaker 2: stay locked up in their shabby apartments when they could

868
00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:13,320
Speaker 2: be owning a home. This feels like this is targeted

869
00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:13,680
Speaker 2: towards you.

870
00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:14,920
Speaker 1: Maybe it is.

871
00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:18,160
Speaker 2: And she wrote, with this type of mortgage, people would

872
00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:21,640
Speaker 2: be able to afford their homes, So she's speaking to

873
00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:25,200
Speaker 2: home affordability. Yeah, well, which I can I understand.

874
00:41:25,239 --> 00:41:28,080
Speaker 1: Which can all admit that homes are far less affordable

875
00:41:28,200 --> 00:41:31,279
Speaker 1: than they have been in recent years, especially like look

876
00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:33,680
Speaker 1: at what's happened over the past fifteen years, homes will

877
00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:37,200
Speaker 1: become far less affordable. So the frustration that people feel

878
00:41:37,320 --> 00:41:39,960
Speaker 1: towards the housing market and towards feeling like they are,

879
00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:42,759
Speaker 1: at least for the time being left out of that

880
00:41:42,840 --> 00:41:45,520
Speaker 1: part of the American dream, I get it, And so

881
00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:47,560
Speaker 1: I think maybe this comment comes from some of that

882
00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:50,359
Speaker 1: frustration point. So I just want to say I hear

883
00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:52,640
Speaker 1: you make sense to me, like it's not falling on

884
00:41:52,719 --> 00:41:56,440
Speaker 1: deaf ears. And we also we always appreciate feedback. Matt,

885
00:41:56,920 --> 00:41:58,719
Speaker 1: you're wrong so much of the time, me less so,

886
00:41:58,800 --> 00:42:02,200
Speaker 1: but like you know, occasionally we're wrong, and so it's

887
00:42:02,239 --> 00:42:05,120
Speaker 1: more than occasionally. We're always willing to have our minds

888
00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:07,400
Speaker 1: changed and to be open minded about like, well did

889
00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:10,279
Speaker 1: we miss that or is there something about this fifty

890
00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:12,600
Speaker 1: year mortgage that actually is better than we thought it

891
00:42:12,640 --> 00:42:15,319
Speaker 1: was going to be. And I think our minds have

892
00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:18,000
Speaker 1: changed about multiple things during the course of this podcast

893
00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:20,279
Speaker 1: over the years. I'm thinking about like pre nups. I've

894
00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:21,200
Speaker 1: come around on prenups.

895
00:42:21,200 --> 00:42:21,359
Speaker 5: Matt.

896
00:42:21,360 --> 00:42:24,040
Speaker 1: I don't know if you have, but like that conversation

897
00:42:24,160 --> 00:42:24,520
Speaker 1: changed me.

898
00:42:24,560 --> 00:42:28,040
Speaker 2: It feels a bit more nuanced. Yeah, but like, and

899
00:42:28,080 --> 00:42:29,960
Speaker 2: I think Ellen does make a reasonable point here too,

900
00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:32,279
Speaker 2: that this would make buying a home more affordable than

901
00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:34,800
Speaker 2: from a monthly payment perspective. That is true having a

902
00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:37,440
Speaker 2: fifty year mortgage or sus a thirty year mortgage, but

903
00:42:37,520 --> 00:42:40,239
Speaker 2: extending the timeline of your debt will always do that, right.

904
00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:43,040
Speaker 2: That's that's also what tends to people to get people

905
00:42:43,080 --> 00:42:45,799
Speaker 2: in trouble, and that's why we are against seven year

906
00:42:45,840 --> 00:42:49,160
Speaker 2: car loans, buy now, pay later, and fifty year mortgages,

907
00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:50,800
Speaker 2: Like I put all three of those kind of in

908
00:42:50,840 --> 00:42:53,560
Speaker 2: the same category. Yes, a fifty year mortgage would.

909
00:42:53,360 --> 00:42:56,560
Speaker 1: Allow you to buy a home, but it would also

910
00:42:56,600 --> 00:42:59,319
Speaker 1: make it highly unlikely that you'd ever own it. It

911
00:42:59,360 --> 00:43:00,640
Speaker 1: isn't that the okay?

912
00:43:00,719 --> 00:43:04,240
Speaker 2: So I maybe I'm changing my mind during this particular episode.

913
00:43:04,239 --> 00:43:06,359
Speaker 2: Bring it well, So you're saying, like you're putting by

914
00:43:06,400 --> 00:43:09,760
Speaker 2: not pay later, what seven year car loans fifty year mortgages.

915
00:43:10,080 --> 00:43:12,160
Speaker 2: There is a difference. I will admit that there is

916
00:43:12,200 --> 00:43:14,840
Speaker 2: a difference between by not pay later, which is typically

917
00:43:14,920 --> 00:43:19,080
Speaker 2: for consumer products, even a car loan, which is yes,

918
00:43:19,120 --> 00:43:21,760
Speaker 2: it's for an asset, but it's for a depreciating asset,

919
00:43:21,800 --> 00:43:24,480
Speaker 2: And there is a difference between those and your home,

920
00:43:24,560 --> 00:43:29,160
Speaker 2: which is traditionally an appreciating asset. And so I guess

921
00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:32,920
Speaker 2: I'm willing to concede slightly that a fifty year mortgage

922
00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:37,200
Speaker 2: could be something that I would be okay with seeing

923
00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:40,080
Speaker 2: someone getting into I think specifically if they are also

924
00:43:40,560 --> 00:43:44,920
Speaker 2: I guess more interested in refinancing like later down the road,

925
00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:48,480
Speaker 2: and potentially more aggressively paying it down right like let's say,

926
00:43:48,560 --> 00:43:50,000
Speaker 2: like if that is how you get your foot in

927
00:43:50,040 --> 00:43:52,080
Speaker 2: the door for home ownership. And that's kind of what

928
00:43:52,120 --> 00:43:54,160
Speaker 2: I'm picking up here with what she's saying that, like

929
00:43:54,239 --> 00:43:57,040
Speaker 2: they're not even able to consider getting a home, but

930
00:43:57,080 --> 00:43:59,160
Speaker 2: if the fifty year mortgage allows them to consider that,

931
00:43:59,200 --> 00:44:01,640
Speaker 2: then why not? Why is that not an option on

932
00:44:01,680 --> 00:44:04,920
Speaker 2: the table? And so much of it though. I like

933
00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:06,719
Speaker 2: what you said though, because you said that, like the

934
00:44:06,760 --> 00:44:09,920
Speaker 2: fifty year mortgage, like them not actually being able to

935
00:44:09,960 --> 00:44:13,160
Speaker 2: own their home, Like, like, yes, it's their host.

936
00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:14,879
Speaker 1: You do refinance at some point, but as.

937
00:44:14,760 --> 00:44:16,600
Speaker 2: Far as from like, what you're talking about is from

938
00:44:16,600 --> 00:44:20,400
Speaker 2: an equity standpoint, right, Let's say if you need or

939
00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:22,520
Speaker 2: let's say you want to sell your home after ten years,

940
00:44:23,280 --> 00:44:25,000
Speaker 2: what you're speaking to is the fact that you own

941
00:44:25,040 --> 00:44:28,040
Speaker 2: so little of it were you to go with this.

942
00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:30,680
Speaker 2: And this is purely fictional, the fifty year mortgage. Still

943
00:44:30,680 --> 00:44:33,239
Speaker 2: it's being floated, it's being talked about, but it's not

944
00:44:33,320 --> 00:44:36,200
Speaker 2: an actual thing yet. But let's say you were looking

945
00:44:36,239 --> 00:44:38,879
Speaker 2: to sell your home after ten years, well, you would

946
00:44:38,880 --> 00:44:41,800
Speaker 2: have eradicated sixteen percent of the principle on a thirty

947
00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:44,600
Speaker 2: year mortgage. On a fifty year mortgage, you would have

948
00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:48,799
Speaker 2: only eaten into four percent of the equity of that home.

949
00:44:48,960 --> 00:44:51,719
Speaker 2: So we're talking after a decade. So if we're talking

950
00:44:51,760 --> 00:44:53,480
Speaker 2: about a difference a four x when it comes to

951
00:44:53,600 --> 00:44:56,640
Speaker 2: home equity, that I also feel you you know, you

952
00:44:56,640 --> 00:44:59,080
Speaker 2: know when you mentioned that, the fact that oh, yeah, yeah,

953
00:44:59,120 --> 00:45:02,640
Speaker 2: you own this home, but you actually don't own much

954
00:45:02,760 --> 00:45:05,759
Speaker 2: of it because you still owe so much money on

955
00:45:05,760 --> 00:45:08,640
Speaker 2: this loan, because it's amateurized and spread out over such

956
00:45:08,800 --> 00:45:10,480
Speaker 2: a long period of time. Yeah, and even just from

957
00:45:10,520 --> 00:45:13,719
Speaker 2: a financial perspective, like depending on maintenance costs and the

958
00:45:13,800 --> 00:45:17,319
Speaker 2: rate of appreciation, transaction costs, renting could easily be a

959
00:45:17,320 --> 00:45:20,200
Speaker 2: better financial outcome for a whole lot of people than

960
00:45:20,600 --> 00:45:24,439
Speaker 2: quote unquote buying and getting a fifty year mortgage. It's

961
00:45:24,440 --> 00:45:27,239
Speaker 2: not that we are against home ownership, is that we're

962
00:45:27,280 --> 00:45:30,080
Speaker 2: for it, and a fifty year mortgage won't boost people's

963
00:45:30,080 --> 00:45:32,880
Speaker 2: ability really to achieve that goal. Maybe it'll get your

964
00:45:32,880 --> 00:45:34,840
Speaker 2: foot in the door, but ultimately the fifty year mortgage

965
00:45:34,880 --> 00:45:37,239
Speaker 2: is not helping people own their homes. Yes, maybe it's

966
00:45:37,280 --> 00:45:39,439
Speaker 2: helping you buy, it's just not helping you own. Yeah,

967
00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:41,919
Speaker 2: I think that's maybe the heart of my problem with it. Yeah,

968
00:45:42,120 --> 00:45:45,480
Speaker 2: I'm with you there, And even to my generous argument

969
00:45:45,560 --> 00:45:47,279
Speaker 2: of like the fifty year mortgage allowing you to get

970
00:45:47,320 --> 00:45:49,560
Speaker 2: your foot in the door, when you break down the

971
00:45:49,600 --> 00:45:53,160
Speaker 2: actual payments, the monthly payments aren't that much more affordable

972
00:45:53,280 --> 00:45:55,120
Speaker 2: or not than a thirty year and so that's the

973
00:45:55,160 --> 00:45:59,359
Speaker 2: strike against it being a quote unquote affordability tool for

974
00:45:59,360 --> 00:46:00,759
Speaker 2: faces who are trying to get their first time If

975
00:46:00,800 --> 00:46:03,040
Speaker 2: it was a three thousand dollars a month mortgage on

976
00:46:03,280 --> 00:46:04,920
Speaker 2: a thirty year, I want to say, on a fifty year,

977
00:46:04,920 --> 00:46:06,640
Speaker 2: it'd be like twenty seven to fifty or.

978
00:46:06,640 --> 00:46:08,319
Speaker 1: Something like that. So it's like, yeah, it's saving two

979
00:46:08,360 --> 00:46:11,759
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty bucks a month, but at what cost? And

980
00:46:12,080 --> 00:46:14,840
Speaker 1: it's a significant one. And home ownership is awesome, Like

981
00:46:14,840 --> 00:46:16,640
Speaker 1: Matt and I own our own homes. We're not against it,

982
00:46:16,640 --> 00:46:19,400
Speaker 1: We're for it. Yeah, real estate has been great for

983
00:46:19,480 --> 00:46:21,719
Speaker 1: us personally, and we hope it has been for a

984
00:46:21,760 --> 00:46:24,040
Speaker 1: lot of how to money listeners, and we want more

985
00:46:24,120 --> 00:46:26,200
Speaker 1: how to money listeners, especially younger ones, to get in

986
00:46:26,560 --> 00:46:28,759
Speaker 1: on home ownership if they are so inclined, but only

987
00:46:28,800 --> 00:46:30,719
Speaker 1: if they want to, because yeah, it can allow you

988
00:46:30,760 --> 00:46:33,080
Speaker 1: to put down roots and it's a goal worth saving

989
00:46:33,120 --> 00:46:35,040
Speaker 1: for it if that's what you want. But a lot

990
00:46:35,040 --> 00:46:35,960
Speaker 1: of listeners also.

991
00:46:35,760 --> 00:46:36,160
Speaker 2: Fine, Matt.

992
00:46:36,200 --> 00:46:37,759
Speaker 1: We hear this from a a lot of how to

993
00:46:37,800 --> 00:46:41,279
Speaker 1: money listeners that renting, especially in the current environment, it

994
00:46:41,320 --> 00:46:43,480
Speaker 1: doesn't feel like throwing money away. It actually allows them

995
00:46:43,520 --> 00:46:46,200
Speaker 1: to have a much higher savings rate to reach other

996
00:46:46,280 --> 00:46:48,480
Speaker 1: financial goals they have. We've even had listeners to reach

997
00:46:48,480 --> 00:46:50,120
Speaker 1: out and be like, I sold my home because it

998
00:46:50,120 --> 00:46:52,440
Speaker 1: wasn't for me, and I'm saving so much money.

999
00:46:52,800 --> 00:46:55,120
Speaker 2: Money year number seven. Yeah, I'm doing everything that I

1000
00:46:55,120 --> 00:46:55,839
Speaker 2: want to do in life.

1001
00:46:55,880 --> 00:46:58,239
Speaker 1: Renting is not throwing away money. I will preset till

1002
00:46:58,280 --> 00:46:59,719
Speaker 1: I die because guess what, you get a roof over

1003
00:46:59,719 --> 00:47:02,440
Speaker 1: your head and you don't have to pay for the

1004
00:47:02,440 --> 00:47:05,440
Speaker 1: meat andance. You get additional flexibility as a renter. Like

1005
00:47:05,600 --> 00:47:07,520
Speaker 1: it's different structure of different folks here. One is not

1006
00:47:07,640 --> 00:47:10,960
Speaker 1: right and wrong. I think they are just different methods

1007
00:47:11,000 --> 00:47:14,239
Speaker 1: of achieving like secure housing in your life, and pick

1008
00:47:14,280 --> 00:47:15,719
Speaker 1: which one makes the most sense for you.

1009
00:47:15,920 --> 00:47:20,080
Speaker 2: That's right, Joel, Did you swim upstream with contrast the

1010
00:47:20,160 --> 00:47:23,440
Speaker 2: American style wheat beer that was a collaboration between Burial

1011
00:47:23,480 --> 00:47:25,440
Speaker 2: and Aligash. During this past forty five minutes, I have

1012
00:47:25,520 --> 00:47:28,360
Speaker 2: been doing that at fifty minutes I think. Okay, to

1013
00:47:28,400 --> 00:47:30,160
Speaker 2: be exact here, Yeah, would you think.

1014
00:47:30,320 --> 00:47:31,080
Speaker 1: You loved it?

1015
00:47:31,200 --> 00:47:31,960
Speaker 2: Did you? Yeah?

1016
00:47:32,360 --> 00:47:34,160
Speaker 1: I was surprised at how much I like this because

1017
00:47:34,320 --> 00:47:38,520
Speaker 1: me too. It was like Golden was super citrusy, very

1018
00:47:38,600 --> 00:47:40,319
Speaker 1: like like orange heavy vibes.

1019
00:47:40,120 --> 00:47:42,680
Speaker 2: Much better descriptive than Golden. I was about to ask you,

1020
00:47:42,800 --> 00:47:46,200
Speaker 2: what does Golden taste like? No, it's a citrusy look. Yeah, yeah, citrusy.

1021
00:47:46,280 --> 00:47:48,600
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, yeah, like almost as like a cutie

1022
00:47:48,680 --> 00:47:50,279
Speaker 2: right on the edge of your tongue. It had like

1023
00:47:50,360 --> 00:47:52,759
Speaker 2: I thought, like a very lemony kind of citrus is

1024
00:47:52,840 --> 00:47:55,120
Speaker 2: really bright on the front end for sure. Yeah.

1025
00:47:55,400 --> 00:47:59,120
Speaker 1: I And this was this is like literally two of

1026
00:47:59,160 --> 00:48:03,600
Speaker 1: the craft beer heavyweights going going together to create something

1027
00:48:03,800 --> 00:48:06,279
Speaker 1: really tasty, and usually wheat beers. I'm like, yeah, I

1028
00:48:06,280 --> 00:48:07,960
Speaker 1: can take it or leave it. This one I will

1029
00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:08,399
Speaker 1: take though.

1030
00:48:08,600 --> 00:48:10,839
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, it gave way so like I thought that

1031
00:48:10,880 --> 00:48:13,160
Speaker 2: after that limity, you kind of moved into that like

1032
00:48:13,200 --> 00:48:16,520
Speaker 2: that weedy backbone, and then it it finished off like

1033
00:48:16,520 --> 00:48:18,400
Speaker 2: down in the basement with like this kind of a

1034
00:48:18,440 --> 00:48:22,680
Speaker 2: funky dankness that I'm assuming Burial brought to the party.

1035
00:48:23,560 --> 00:48:25,359
Speaker 2: It's not normally something that Aligash does.

1036
00:48:25,400 --> 00:48:27,799
Speaker 1: They just like come up with a box of dank here.

1037
00:48:27,600 --> 00:48:29,760
Speaker 2: They're just like, oh, we just need two more touches

1038
00:48:30,000 --> 00:48:32,720
Speaker 2: of dank please, thank you sir, May I have another?

1039
00:48:33,080 --> 00:48:35,319
Speaker 2: But yeah, I thought I was really good, really enjoyed it.

1040
00:48:35,560 --> 00:48:39,160
Speaker 2: I would love to see more collabs with Aligash specifically.

1041
00:48:39,200 --> 00:48:40,960
Speaker 2: I feel like they are one of those old not

1042
00:48:41,040 --> 00:48:44,320
Speaker 2: old timey breweries, but one of the original great breweries

1043
00:48:44,320 --> 00:48:47,520
Speaker 2: who were doing very creative and amazing things that have

1044
00:48:47,680 --> 00:48:48,680
Speaker 2: kind of fallen off my radar.

1045
00:48:48,800 --> 00:48:52,440
Speaker 1: Some of their like oak age sours are incredible, like

1046
00:48:52,480 --> 00:48:54,600
Speaker 1: Alli Gash, I just don't get them often enough.

1047
00:48:54,920 --> 00:48:58,480
Speaker 2: But I'm thinking of curios that's one of them. That's

1048
00:48:58,520 --> 00:49:00,520
Speaker 2: from from for Forever Again.

1049
00:49:00,600 --> 00:49:02,439
Speaker 1: There's like a peach one that they've made in the past.

1050
00:49:02,480 --> 00:49:06,040
Speaker 1: I mean, they've just made some incredible like fruit it sours,

1051
00:49:06,640 --> 00:49:08,560
Speaker 1: But yeah, it's been too long, so I'll have to

1052
00:49:08,600 --> 00:49:12,200
Speaker 1: revisit one soon. The Belgian Sason's no doubt. All right, Maddie,

1053
00:49:12,200 --> 00:49:14,120
Speaker 1: that's gonna be it for this episode. We will put

1054
00:49:14,120 --> 00:49:16,000
Speaker 1: links to in the show notes to some of the

1055
00:49:16,160 --> 00:49:20,560
Speaker 1: resources we mentioned today. You can that's how the money

1056
00:49:20,560 --> 00:49:21,600
Speaker 1: dot Com if you're curious.

1057
00:49:21,719 --> 00:49:24,480
Speaker 2: That's right, So until next time, best friends out, best

1058
00:49:24,560 --> 00:49:25,399
Speaker 2: friends out,