1 00:00:00,600 --> 00:00:03,320 Speaker 1: Native Land Pod is a production of iHeartRadio in partnership 2 00:00:03,360 --> 00:00:07,280 Speaker 1: with Resent Choice Media. Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome. 3 00:00:06,920 --> 00:00:10,680 Speaker 2: Welcome, Welcome, Hey, everybody. This episode is a replay of 4 00:00:10,720 --> 00:00:12,640 Speaker 2: one of our interviews from our live stream as a 5 00:00:12,680 --> 00:00:17,320 Speaker 2: Congressional Black Caucus Foundations Annual Legislative Conference. If you want 6 00:00:17,320 --> 00:00:19,720 Speaker 2: to listen to or watch the full stream, check out 7 00:00:19,760 --> 00:00:22,319 Speaker 2: the links in the episode description. You can also find 8 00:00:22,360 --> 00:00:25,640 Speaker 2: a full list of all the guests we interviewed. Welcome home, y'all. 9 00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:29,880 Speaker 2: We have a few more guests coming and part of 10 00:00:29,880 --> 00:00:30,400 Speaker 2: what's happening. 11 00:00:30,400 --> 00:00:33,040 Speaker 1: One of them are here is here? Oh, we have doctor. 12 00:00:37,400 --> 00:00:41,280 Speaker 2: Joining us, Doctor hebram Kindy, one of my favorite people. 13 00:00:41,400 --> 00:00:43,879 Speaker 2: And also Andrew is gonna get next, to get to 14 00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:46,880 Speaker 2: sit next. So this is the second rattler that we've 15 00:00:46,960 --> 00:00:48,640 Speaker 2: had on the program already. 16 00:00:49,640 --> 00:00:53,440 Speaker 1: Nice to see doctor. Hello. This New York Times best 17 00:00:53,520 --> 00:00:57,320 Speaker 1: selling offers intellectual iluminary. We are so pleased to have 18 00:00:57,520 --> 00:01:00,480 Speaker 1: you a thought leader here tonight. We see Jamie Harrison 19 00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:03,960 Speaker 1: up above, Chair of the Democratic National Conference. We love 20 00:01:04,080 --> 00:01:14,160 Speaker 1: to see Jamie Harrison, Eric Alexander Alexander, and Congressman Kelly. 21 00:01:14,480 --> 00:01:18,560 Speaker 1: We see you you all, remember Eric Alexander max Deen 22 00:01:18,680 --> 00:01:21,840 Speaker 1: Shaw on living singles, some of you Officer because of her, 23 00:01:22,040 --> 00:01:25,319 Speaker 1: she was also on the Cosby Show, So a beautiful 24 00:01:25,440 --> 00:01:28,600 Speaker 1: night of luminaries. Indeed, back to you, doctor Kendy, thank 25 00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:30,399 Speaker 1: you for taking the time to be here. I'll let 26 00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:31,520 Speaker 1: the rattler kick the county. 27 00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:35,720 Speaker 3: Appreciate it. Appreciate it. Welcome Doc, to see you as always. 28 00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:36,920 Speaker 3: I saw you. 29 00:01:37,440 --> 00:01:41,120 Speaker 4: You had a post trying to help all of us 30 00:01:41,760 --> 00:01:45,199 Speaker 4: struggle with and and and comprehend the significance of Donald 31 00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:49,600 Speaker 4: Trump's and the Republican parties repeated mythology. 32 00:01:49,720 --> 00:01:51,160 Speaker 3: I don't know what the hell to call it, but 33 00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:53,400 Speaker 3: around the eating of of of pets. 34 00:01:54,720 --> 00:01:57,000 Speaker 4: I want you, if you wouldn't mind just help us 35 00:01:57,240 --> 00:01:59,400 Speaker 4: sort of see that, I think in a much more 36 00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:03,120 Speaker 4: grounded and concrete and really important way, because I think 37 00:02:03,160 --> 00:02:06,920 Speaker 4: it's easy to make jokes and memes without assessing the 38 00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:09,760 Speaker 4: impact that it may have on the greater greater community. 39 00:02:10,760 --> 00:02:13,320 Speaker 5: Well, well, I think it's it's part of a larger 40 00:02:13,639 --> 00:02:21,160 Speaker 5: project to criminalize black people more broadly, but their specific 41 00:02:21,280 --> 00:02:27,960 Speaker 5: target obviously we're ra Haitian immigrants yea. And in Springfield, Ohio, 42 00:02:28,600 --> 00:02:35,359 Speaker 5: you have longtime black residents who are also being sort 43 00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:38,760 Speaker 5: of demonized and racially profiled, you know, as a result 44 00:02:38,919 --> 00:02:44,840 Speaker 5: of what they've said about those, you know, people presumably 45 00:02:44,919 --> 00:02:47,600 Speaker 5: eating pets. And so I just tried to show that 46 00:02:47,760 --> 00:02:53,440 Speaker 5: when you demean one black group, what ultimately happens is 47 00:02:54,160 --> 00:02:57,639 Speaker 5: you demean every black group. And I think it's important 48 00:02:57,720 --> 00:03:00,959 Speaker 5: for us to not think, say, if you are not 49 00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:04,640 Speaker 5: a Haitian immigrant, but you're black, to think, no, that's 50 00:03:04,840 --> 00:03:08,000 Speaker 5: just them. No, ultimately, it's gonna boomerang back to you. 51 00:03:08,919 --> 00:03:12,280 Speaker 3: That's real, that's real. We have that a lot in Florida, 52 00:03:12,320 --> 00:03:13,880 Speaker 3: even I know you know that. 53 00:03:14,120 --> 00:03:19,720 Speaker 4: But because of the immigrant community, the expanding Caribbean, Afro 54 00:03:19,880 --> 00:03:23,560 Speaker 4: Latino Haitian community, so on and so forth, you will 55 00:03:23,600 --> 00:03:27,120 Speaker 4: hear at the higher education level folks saying I'm not 56 00:03:27,720 --> 00:03:30,600 Speaker 4: you know, African American, I'm not Black, I'm Haitian, or 57 00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:33,359 Speaker 4: I'm this, And I think black people do this, you 58 00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:36,120 Speaker 4: know American more and black folks do do similarly. And 59 00:03:36,640 --> 00:03:39,920 Speaker 4: I just thought your message was poignant because it started. 60 00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:43,200 Speaker 4: I always felt that if they're going after Haitians, they 61 00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:45,440 Speaker 4: don't know the difference largely between any one of us. 62 00:03:47,400 --> 00:03:49,760 Speaker 4: It's not okay to go after Haitians period. But certainly 63 00:03:50,120 --> 00:03:52,160 Speaker 4: when you consider that this is an attack on all 64 00:03:52,240 --> 00:03:54,080 Speaker 4: of us, that we all have to say something and 65 00:03:54,160 --> 00:03:54,760 Speaker 4: do something about it. 66 00:03:54,960 --> 00:03:58,440 Speaker 5: And it's interesting because it just harkens me back to 67 00:03:58,960 --> 00:04:03,480 Speaker 5: this speech that Malcolm X actually gave I believe it 68 00:04:03,600 --> 00:04:08,960 Speaker 5: was in nineteen sixty two after police sort of barged 69 00:04:09,040 --> 00:04:13,360 Speaker 5: into the La Mosque and ended up killing some members 70 00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:16,880 Speaker 5: of the nation, and he gave this sort of funeral speech. 71 00:04:17,400 --> 00:04:22,400 Speaker 5: And during that funeral speech, that's when he's well known 72 00:04:22,480 --> 00:04:25,960 Speaker 5: for saying the most disrespected person in America today is 73 00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:30,000 Speaker 5: the black woman. But in that speech, he also speaks 74 00:04:30,080 --> 00:04:33,240 Speaker 5: to black people and says, who taught you to hate yourself? 75 00:04:34,480 --> 00:04:37,800 Speaker 5: And I'm referencing that because you know, you can ask 76 00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:40,880 Speaker 5: African Americans, well, who taught you to hate Black immigrants? 77 00:04:41,800 --> 00:04:44,000 Speaker 5: Who you can ask black immigrants who taught you to 78 00:04:44,080 --> 00:04:47,680 Speaker 5: hate African Americans? And so what happens is you have 79 00:04:47,839 --> 00:04:51,320 Speaker 5: different groups of black folks seeing other groups of black 80 00:04:51,880 --> 00:04:54,240 Speaker 5: folks through the eyes of racist white people. 81 00:04:54,640 --> 00:04:58,280 Speaker 1: And know, yeah, I think that's such a legitimate point. 82 00:05:06,360 --> 00:05:08,800 Speaker 1: How have you found because the last time you were 83 00:05:08,880 --> 00:05:11,920 Speaker 1: in the news, we were all ready to come to 84 00:05:12,200 --> 00:05:15,360 Speaker 1: your defense. How have you found navigating this space, because 85 00:05:15,400 --> 00:05:18,799 Speaker 1: it does feel like it is such a visceral attack. 86 00:05:19,080 --> 00:05:23,240 Speaker 1: You know, this kind of racial reckoning that mostly white 87 00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:27,400 Speaker 1: run newsrooms introduced. What we've actually witnessed is more of 88 00:05:27,480 --> 00:05:31,040 Speaker 1: a hostile backlash, a swift and hostile backlash to that. 89 00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:33,599 Speaker 1: So in this age of how to be an anti 90 00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:36,760 Speaker 1: racist and you, you know, contributing what you can to 91 00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:39,520 Speaker 1: society and being I think all of us have been 92 00:05:39,560 --> 00:05:43,120 Speaker 1: on the receiving end of such visceral attacks. How have 93 00:05:43,200 --> 00:05:47,200 Speaker 1: you found navigating life personally, professionally, politically, all of it. 94 00:05:49,080 --> 00:05:52,520 Speaker 5: I mean, it's difficult, yeah, And I think for me 95 00:05:52,640 --> 00:05:59,320 Speaker 5: it's most difficult when I see attacks that those who 96 00:05:59,400 --> 00:06:04,040 Speaker 5: are obviously trying to conserve racism create and launch, and 97 00:06:04,440 --> 00:06:08,080 Speaker 5: people that I love sort of repeat those ideas, sort 98 00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:10,480 Speaker 5: of not knowing it my mind. I think that's when 99 00:06:10,520 --> 00:06:14,599 Speaker 5: it's sort of most painful. What's ironic even about comparing 100 00:06:14,680 --> 00:06:17,280 Speaker 5: this to the last question about what's going on with 101 00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:21,320 Speaker 5: those Haitian immigrants, is you have this sort of viral 102 00:06:21,920 --> 00:06:26,680 Speaker 5: series of sort of reports with no evidence, like there 103 00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:29,880 Speaker 5: was no evidence, right, And I think for those of 104 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:34,680 Speaker 5: us who've been targeted in the media for doing something 105 00:06:34,720 --> 00:06:38,719 Speaker 5: where there's no evidence, because apparently, like our skin color 106 00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:42,080 Speaker 5: is evidence enough. I mean it becomes hard like can you, like, 107 00:06:42,400 --> 00:06:46,640 Speaker 5: can you present some portion of evidence to substantiate this claim. 108 00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:53,599 Speaker 5: That's sort of more or less delegitimizing our work, our 109 00:06:53,680 --> 00:06:56,039 Speaker 5: work as a scholar, our work as an elected official, 110 00:06:56,200 --> 00:06:59,920 Speaker 5: I work, you know, as you knows as a commentator, 111 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:02,920 Speaker 5: and for typically black people, you don't need evidence. And 112 00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:06,280 Speaker 5: I think that's what's incredibly painful for black people who 113 00:07:06,279 --> 00:07:07,280 Speaker 5: are in the public life. 114 00:07:07,600 --> 00:07:09,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, Era. 115 00:07:09,720 --> 00:07:11,320 Speaker 2: First of all, I just want to tell you thank you, 116 00:07:12,680 --> 00:07:15,720 Speaker 2: because no matter what, anytime that I've caught on you, 117 00:07:15,760 --> 00:07:19,200 Speaker 2: you've been there. And I wanted to start there because 118 00:07:19,200 --> 00:07:22,280 Speaker 2: I think that that is an essential component and essential 119 00:07:22,560 --> 00:07:24,680 Speaker 2: ingred ingredient for community. 120 00:07:25,120 --> 00:07:27,760 Speaker 1: And I'd love to know in this era that we're. 121 00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:30,960 Speaker 2: In right now, given the quality of the work you do, 122 00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:34,280 Speaker 2: the significance of the work you do, what our community 123 00:07:34,360 --> 00:07:37,400 Speaker 2: can do to really come together to not only support you, 124 00:07:37,520 --> 00:07:40,640 Speaker 2: to support each other in our collective advancement and liberation. 125 00:07:42,520 --> 00:07:45,400 Speaker 5: I really think we we have to. I think to 126 00:07:45,520 --> 00:07:48,920 Speaker 5: support sort of my work or even others, I think 127 00:07:49,000 --> 00:07:54,560 Speaker 5: we have to be more results oriented and I think 128 00:07:54,600 --> 00:07:58,080 Speaker 5: we have to be more sort of evidence based, going 129 00:07:58,120 --> 00:07:59,800 Speaker 5: back to what I was just you know, talking of, 130 00:08:00,200 --> 00:08:03,240 Speaker 5: and I'm saying that to say, even in my book 131 00:08:03,560 --> 00:08:07,120 Speaker 5: How to Be an Anti Racist, I ended up defining 132 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:13,400 Speaker 5: an activists as someone with a record of power and 133 00:08:13,520 --> 00:08:17,080 Speaker 5: policy change. So so a person can't just say one day, 134 00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:20,360 Speaker 5: I'm an activist. Yeah, right, you know, what is your record? 135 00:08:20,440 --> 00:08:24,560 Speaker 5: What organizations have you have you built? What institutions uh, 136 00:08:24,760 --> 00:08:27,840 Speaker 5: you know, have you have you created? What campaigns have 137 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:32,679 Speaker 5: you launched to you know, reduce levels of housing insecurity, 138 00:08:32,840 --> 00:08:35,839 Speaker 5: you know, in your community. And I think we have 139 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:40,600 Speaker 5: to be more outcome oriented, more results oriented, because especially 140 00:08:40,679 --> 00:08:43,760 Speaker 5: in a moment in which those who are trying to 141 00:08:43,840 --> 00:08:49,199 Speaker 5: conserve racism are so intent focused. Yeah, we have to 142 00:08:49,280 --> 00:08:50,280 Speaker 5: be outcome focused. 143 00:08:51,559 --> 00:08:54,040 Speaker 1: And I think there's a lot of symbolism, right and 144 00:08:54,200 --> 00:08:57,280 Speaker 1: even when we when it comes to the presidency, we 145 00:08:58,120 --> 00:09:01,160 Speaker 1: you know, have seen the election of President Barack Obama 146 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:04,959 Speaker 1: and looking at that through the lens of policy, you know, 147 00:09:05,040 --> 00:09:07,880 Speaker 1: we can judge his presidency. I think at this point 148 00:09:08,040 --> 00:09:10,880 Speaker 1: we are for a lot of younger people, President Obama 149 00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:14,040 Speaker 1: was the floor, not the ceiling, and so now younger 150 00:09:14,080 --> 00:09:16,959 Speaker 1: people have a lot more demands of our leaders. We're 151 00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:19,640 Speaker 1: beyond the role of symbolism. So I think that's so true. 152 00:09:20,080 --> 00:09:24,720 Speaker 1: What is your prediction for what may happen in November 153 00:09:24,760 --> 00:09:27,960 Speaker 1: and what this landscape might look like in this country? 154 00:09:28,080 --> 00:09:30,160 Speaker 1: You know, because when he was elected, it was like, oh, 155 00:09:30,200 --> 00:09:33,040 Speaker 1: we're post racial now, which we all kind of laughed 156 00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:35,760 Speaker 1: at that ridiculous notion of that. What might we see 157 00:09:35,800 --> 00:09:38,760 Speaker 1: what might await us under a president Kamala Harris. 158 00:09:39,360 --> 00:09:44,480 Speaker 5: Well, it's interesting because many people have talked about the 159 00:09:44,960 --> 00:09:49,880 Speaker 5: importance obviously of this election, and you know, as an historian, 160 00:09:51,160 --> 00:09:53,439 Speaker 5: let me just say I can attest to that. I 161 00:09:53,600 --> 00:09:57,800 Speaker 5: can't think of this election in twenty twenty four, particularly 162 00:09:57,840 --> 00:10:02,439 Speaker 5: for black folks, without thinking of the election of eighteen 163 00:10:02,559 --> 00:10:06,040 Speaker 5: sixty four. And this was an election between a candidate 164 00:10:06,920 --> 00:10:09,319 Speaker 5: who more or less planned to end the Civil War 165 00:10:10,520 --> 00:10:14,520 Speaker 5: and pretty much re enslaved black people, you know, in 166 00:10:14,600 --> 00:10:17,319 Speaker 5: a candidate that presumed that he was going to continue 167 00:10:17,360 --> 00:10:19,400 Speaker 5: the Civil War. I mean, it really is that stark, 168 00:10:20,920 --> 00:10:24,000 Speaker 5: particularly when you look at the candidacy of Donald Trump 169 00:10:24,080 --> 00:10:27,240 Speaker 5: and what he has planned, particularly for black folks, And 170 00:10:27,520 --> 00:10:30,520 Speaker 5: so I don't I think it's important for us to 171 00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:33,760 Speaker 5: understand those stakes, especially when you look at some of 172 00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:39,240 Speaker 5: the candidates who are sort of allying with Trump internationally, 173 00:10:39,360 --> 00:10:41,840 Speaker 5: when you look at what they've done when they've gotten 174 00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:45,280 Speaker 5: a second term or when they've gotten a second presidency, 175 00:10:45,440 --> 00:10:48,640 Speaker 5: this is a critical moment in the history of black 176 00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:51,040 Speaker 5: life in this country and really in the history of 177 00:10:51,040 --> 00:10:51,760 Speaker 5: the United States. 178 00:10:52,360 --> 00:10:52,960 Speaker 3: That's powerful. 179 00:10:55,520 --> 00:10:58,479 Speaker 2: Hey, y'all, thanks for listening. Remember to rate, review, subscribe, 180 00:10:58,559 --> 00:11:02,160 Speaker 2: and tune into our regular episode that drops every single Thursday, 181 00:11:02,240 --> 00:11:03,000 Speaker 2: Welcome Home, y'all. 182 00:11:15,920 --> 00:11:18,760 Speaker 1: Native Land Pod is the production of iHeartRadio in partnership 183 00:11:18,840 --> 00:11:21,920 Speaker 1: with Resent Choice Media. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit 184 00:11:21,960 --> 00:11:25,000 Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to 185 00:11:25,120 --> 00:11:25,880 Speaker 1: your favorite shows.