1 00:00:17,282 --> 00:00:17,782 Speaker 1: Pushkin. 2 00:00:22,082 --> 00:00:23,522 Speaker 2: Hi folks, Amy here. 3 00:00:23,662 --> 00:00:25,932 Speaker 3: Before we get into this episode, I wanted to let 4 00:00:25,972 --> 00:00:28,652 Speaker 3: you know that you can hear all episodes from this 5 00:00:28,732 --> 00:00:33,412 Speaker 3: mini season of Drilled the Propagandist. ad-free right now by 6 00:00:33,512 --> 00:00:37,002 Speaker 3: signing up for Pushkin Plus. We're only able to continue 7 00:00:37,042 --> 00:00:40,542 Speaker 3: doing our research and reporting on these important climate stories 8 00:00:40,702 --> 00:00:43,462 Speaker 3: with the help of you, our listeners, and we appreciate 9 00:00:43,502 --> 00:00:46,882 Speaker 3: your support so much. 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Okay, 13 00:01:02,722 --> 00:01:03,472 Speaker 3: let's get into it. 14 00:01:08,292 --> 00:01:11,652 Speaker 4: In early 2017, some of the water protectors from Standing 15 00:01:11,691 --> 00:01:14,632 Speaker 4: Rock joined a new camp where they could gather and organize. 16 00:01:15,292 --> 00:01:17,392 Speaker 4: It was called Little Creek, and it was not far 17 00:01:17,432 --> 00:01:19,842 Speaker 4: from the Dakota Access Pipelines route in Iowa. 18 00:01:20,862 --> 00:01:22,122 Speaker 5: I thought it was going to be more of an 19 00:01:22,301 --> 00:01:25,681 Speaker 5: action-based place, but what it turned out to be was 20 00:01:25,722 --> 00:01:26,722 Speaker 5: more of a healing place. 21 00:01:27,612 --> 00:01:30,831 Speaker 4: Sikawis Nobis is a Plains Cree and Salto citizen of 22 00:01:30,872 --> 00:01:33,892 Speaker 4: the George Gordon First Nation in Saskatchewan, Canada. 23 00:01:34,252 --> 00:01:37,232 Speaker 2: She lives in Iowa. A landowner had offered up an 24 00:01:37,271 --> 00:01:40,911 Speaker 2: old Christmas tree farm gone feral. The land is rolling. 25 00:01:40,932 --> 00:01:42,211 Speaker 2: The grass is long. 26 00:01:43,071 --> 00:01:45,551 Speaker 5: We had sweat there, so people would sweat. We had 27 00:01:45,812 --> 00:01:48,672 Speaker 5: pipe ceremony come through quite a few times. It was 28 00:01:48,692 --> 00:01:49,452 Speaker 5: just quiet. 29 00:01:50,352 --> 00:01:52,722 Speaker 4: The people who came from Standing Rock to Little Creek 30 00:01:52,882 --> 00:01:55,592 Speaker 4: had been through a lot. Some had made it through 31 00:01:55,672 --> 00:01:59,032 Speaker 4: months of police and private security pressure before police evicted 32 00:01:59,072 --> 00:02:01,932 Speaker 4: the camps in North Dakota at the end of February 2017. 33 00:02:01,932 --> 00:02:07,242 Speaker 4: The campers end up participating in some demonstrations, but they 34 00:02:07,282 --> 00:02:10,182 Speaker 4: spend more time attempting to heal from what just happened. 35 00:02:10,822 --> 00:02:13,942 Speaker 4: They sit around the fire, grow vegetables, get a few 36 00:02:13,982 --> 00:02:16,942 Speaker 4: goats and chickens. They argue with each other a lot. 37 00:02:18,062 --> 00:02:20,772 Speaker 4: You might expect that from the perspective of the Dakota 38 00:02:20,872 --> 00:02:25,442 Speaker 4: Access Pipeline's parent company, Energy Transfer, that they have won. 39 00:02:26,062 --> 00:02:28,802 Speaker 2: They got their pipeline bill. They got the protesters kicked out. 40 00:02:29,042 --> 00:02:29,582 Speaker 2: Things are good. 41 00:02:30,342 --> 00:02:34,312 Speaker 4: But energy transfer and its contract private security firm, TigerSwan, 42 00:02:34,562 --> 00:02:39,672 Speaker 4: are not done with these people. I'm Aline Brown for Drilled, 43 00:02:40,032 --> 00:02:43,452 Speaker 4: and this is The Propagandist, the inside story of a 44 00:02:43,552 --> 00:02:47,372 Speaker 4: narrative war between a pipeline company and an environmental movement. 45 00:02:54,572 --> 00:02:57,112 Speaker 4: A couple months after the water protectors set up camp 46 00:02:57,152 --> 00:03:00,452 Speaker 4: at Little Creek in early 2017, they start to notice 47 00:03:00,512 --> 00:03:03,652 Speaker 4: a new Facebook page making the rounds among their neighbors. 48 00:03:04,332 --> 00:03:08,352 Speaker 4: It's called Defend Iowa. That name should sound familiar. It 49 00:03:08,432 --> 00:03:11,232 Speaker 4: seems to be a spin on Defend Biz Man, that 50 00:03:11,312 --> 00:03:15,192 Speaker 4: private anti-protest Facebook group you heard about last episode, the 51 00:03:15,292 --> 00:03:18,712 Speaker 4: one that TigerSwan targeted in North Dakota, where local people 52 00:03:18,812 --> 00:03:22,682 Speaker 4: vented their frustrations with the protests. But this version was 53 00:03:22,922 --> 00:03:26,422 Speaker 4: not created by locals. It's the newest project of the 54 00:03:26,462 --> 00:03:31,712 Speaker 4: propaganda team working for Energy Transfer's private security company. In 55 00:03:31,772 --> 00:03:35,392 Speaker 4: North Dakota, Robert Rice and Tiger Swan attempted to encourage 56 00:03:35,492 --> 00:03:39,602 Speaker 4: opposition to Standing Rock using Facebook. Here in Iowa, the 57 00:03:39,622 --> 00:03:43,062 Speaker 4: security operatives are aiming to stifle the movement going forward. 58 00:03:43,962 --> 00:03:47,002 Speaker 4: A lot of the Defend Iowa Facebook videos feature none 59 00:03:47,182 --> 00:03:51,222 Speaker 4: other than Robert Rice himself, TigerSwan's contractor who we met 60 00:03:51,282 --> 00:03:55,142 Speaker 4: in North Dakota. He's a mild-looking white guy with gray 61 00:03:55,182 --> 00:03:58,672 Speaker 4: hair and a beard and glasses, usually wearing a polo shirt. 62 00:03:59,192 --> 00:04:00,552 Speaker 4: And he poses like a news anchor. 63 00:04:01,512 --> 00:04:04,312 Speaker 6: As you've probably heard, a group of protesters from Standing 64 00:04:04,352 --> 00:04:06,992 Speaker 6: Rock have formed a camp near Williamsburg in Iowa County. 65 00:04:07,652 --> 00:04:10,102 Speaker 6: Their stated goal is to build the camp from 20 66 00:04:10,102 --> 00:04:13,562 Speaker 6: people to at least 100 people by midsummer. They say 67 00:04:13,582 --> 00:04:17,012 Speaker 6: they want to develop new ways to fight pipelines. Now, 68 00:04:17,332 --> 00:04:21,292 Speaker 6: let us be clear. We are not against peaceful protesting. However, 69 00:04:21,392 --> 00:04:23,171 Speaker 6: many of the members of this cell have been part 70 00:04:23,192 --> 00:04:25,412 Speaker 6: of the destruction in Standing Rock last year. 71 00:04:26,152 --> 00:04:29,072 Speaker 4: We reached out to Robert several times, and he never responded. 72 00:04:32,002 --> 00:04:34,762 Speaker 4: Little Creek Camp is in the middle of Iowa farm country. 73 00:04:35,222 --> 00:04:39,082 Speaker 4: It's miles on miles of corn and soybean fields. Like 74 00:04:39,122 --> 00:04:43,712 Speaker 4: in rural North Dakota, that insider-outsider dynamic is strong. Unlike 75 00:04:43,752 --> 00:04:46,172 Speaker 4: in North Dakota, we have a clear sense of what 76 00:04:46,232 --> 00:04:50,012 Speaker 4: Robert Rice's ultimate goal was in Iowa, because he spelled 77 00:04:50,052 --> 00:04:52,512 Speaker 4: it out in a WhatsApp chat. I got it through 78 00:04:52,532 --> 00:04:57,072 Speaker 4: a public records request. Around the same time the Defend 79 00:04:57,192 --> 00:05:01,181 Speaker 4: Iowa page launches, one of TigerSwan's managers connects Robert Rice 80 00:05:01,262 --> 00:05:05,922 Speaker 4: and another TigerSwan contractor, Joel McCullough. Joel is a burly 81 00:05:06,022 --> 00:05:09,662 Speaker 4: ex-Marine with a big beard. And the fall before all this, 82 00:05:09,882 --> 00:05:13,382 Speaker 4: he started showing up in anti-pipeline spaces in Iowa and 83 00:05:13,422 --> 00:05:17,362 Speaker 4: North Dakota with his sweet white dog. He presented himself 84 00:05:17,422 --> 00:05:20,182 Speaker 4: as an ally for the movement. Sometimes he even said 85 00:05:20,202 --> 00:05:23,902 Speaker 4: he was a journalist. He bought things for people, supplies 86 00:05:23,942 --> 00:05:26,742 Speaker 4: for the camps, a hotel room where people talked about 87 00:05:26,782 --> 00:05:27,842 Speaker 4: their protest. 88 00:05:27,462 --> 00:05:31,292 Speaker 2: Plans, even alcohol and weed. And he made friends. 89 00:05:32,312 --> 00:05:36,112 Speaker 4: All that deception was to gather information for the pipeline company. 90 00:05:37,002 --> 00:05:41,142 Speaker 4: And now TigerSwan wants this infiltrator and their propagandist to 91 00:05:41,182 --> 00:05:45,022 Speaker 4: put their heads together. These guys are essentially private spies 92 00:05:45,082 --> 00:05:48,462 Speaker 4: for a pipeline company. But their records from their WhatsApp 93 00:05:48,502 --> 00:05:52,002 Speaker 4: chat means we get to eavesdrop on their conversations. 94 00:05:53,182 --> 00:05:54,982 Speaker 7: I think we have a good chance of completely shutting 95 00:05:55,022 --> 00:05:55,782 Speaker 7: down Little Creek. 96 00:05:56,642 --> 00:05:58,602 Speaker 2: We hired an actor to read Robert's chats. 97 00:05:59,432 --> 00:06:01,402 Speaker 8: What would help me to know is how they are 98 00:06:01,432 --> 00:06:04,102 Speaker 8: connected to the other camps. and what strings to start 99 00:06:04,142 --> 00:06:07,282 Speaker 8: pulling on or what factions to exploit against each other. 100 00:06:07,842 --> 00:06:09,642 Speaker 4: He told Joel what he'd been up to with the 101 00:06:09,662 --> 00:06:13,252 Speaker 4: Defend Iowa Facebook page. We also hired an actor to 102 00:06:13,272 --> 00:06:13,912 Speaker 4: read for Joel. 103 00:06:14,252 --> 00:06:16,972 Speaker 8: Our stuff has resulted in some cold shoulders and pushy 104 00:06:17,012 --> 00:06:20,171 Speaker 8: behavior from locals and loss of support. I think we 105 00:06:20,232 --> 00:06:22,392 Speaker 8: ruined the first day of their climate march and cost 106 00:06:22,412 --> 00:06:23,152 Speaker 8: them two venues. 107 00:06:23,832 --> 00:06:24,132 Speaker 9: Awesome. 108 00:06:24,632 --> 00:06:27,432 Speaker 4: And Robert is eager to get his help. After all, 109 00:06:27,552 --> 00:06:29,212 Speaker 4: Joel's infiltrated camps before. 110 00:06:29,812 --> 00:06:30,532 Speaker 7: I've been looking for. 111 00:06:30,452 --> 00:06:34,252 Speaker 8: Some other information on the internal factions infighting at Little Creek. 112 00:06:34,712 --> 00:06:37,802 Speaker 4: Again, Joel's been pretending to be the water protector's friend 113 00:06:37,962 --> 00:06:38,522 Speaker 4: for months. 114 00:06:38,982 --> 00:06:40,402 Speaker 1: I would focus on the cook leaving. 115 00:06:41,382 --> 00:06:44,621 Speaker 4: Joel starts feeding Robert rumors. We reached out to Joel, 116 00:06:44,682 --> 00:06:49,342 Speaker 4: but he declined to answer our questions. Little Creek Camp 117 00:06:49,382 --> 00:06:52,052 Speaker 4: might seem like small potatoes now that the Standing Rock 118 00:06:52,072 --> 00:06:54,351 Speaker 4: Camp has been evicted. But if you think about it, 119 00:06:54,672 --> 00:06:58,332 Speaker 4: if Tiger Swan wants to keep their contract with Energy Transfer... 120 00:06:58,482 --> 00:07:01,822 Speaker 4: then playing up these water protectors as dangerous makes the 121 00:07:01,882 --> 00:07:05,932 Speaker 4: company's security work seem more essential. In one of their reports, 122 00:07:06,092 --> 00:07:09,892 Speaker 4: TigerSwan tells Energy Transfer that the water protectors movement is 123 00:07:09,952 --> 00:07:18,462 Speaker 4: akin to a jihadist insurgency in Afghanistan. They say, What 124 00:07:18,502 --> 00:07:23,702 Speaker 4: the anti-DAPL protesters have called an indigenous decolonization movement was 125 00:07:23,842 --> 00:07:29,372 Speaker 4: essentially an externally supported movement ideologically driven insurgency with a 126 00:07:29,452 --> 00:07:35,062 Speaker 4: strong religious component. TigerSwan points to the aftermath of anti-Soviet 127 00:07:35,102 --> 00:07:40,642 Speaker 4: jihadist uprisings in Afghanistan in the 1990s. After the insurgents 128 00:07:40,682 --> 00:07:44,882 Speaker 4: were defeated, TigerSwan writes, they dispersed and regrouped, and the 129 00:07:44,982 --> 00:07:49,452 Speaker 4: so-called bleedout eventually led to Osama bin Laden and Al-Qaeda. 130 00:07:50,292 --> 00:07:53,472 Speaker 4: TigerSwan doesn't say it explicitly, but what came after that 131 00:07:53,532 --> 00:07:58,582 Speaker 4: was 9-11. TigerSwan suggests to Energy Transfer that something similar 132 00:07:58,702 --> 00:08:02,262 Speaker 4: is now happening in the Upper Midwest. Their daily report says. 133 00:08:02,802 --> 00:08:06,002 Speaker 10: We've already seen this bleed out happen with the ideologically 134 00:08:06,042 --> 00:08:09,002 Speaker 10: driven pipeline fighters from Standing Rock, as several of them 135 00:08:09,042 --> 00:08:11,182 Speaker 10: are in the process of moving to Iowa. 136 00:08:12,022 --> 00:08:14,842 Speaker 4: They're suggesting Little Creek could be a place where water 137 00:08:14,882 --> 00:08:21,932 Speaker 4: protectors radicalize further, just like happened with Al-Qaeda. But this 138 00:08:22,032 --> 00:08:24,892 Speaker 4: is not an armed conflict, and Little Creek is not 139 00:08:24,982 --> 00:08:28,262 Speaker 4: on a path to doing a 9-11. The most significant 140 00:08:28,402 --> 00:08:32,322 Speaker 4: acts of Dakota Access Pipeline sabotage involve two women setting 141 00:08:32,381 --> 00:08:35,862 Speaker 4: fire to construction equipment and using a welding tool to 142 00:08:35,922 --> 00:08:39,622 Speaker 4: pierce holes in above-ground pipeline valves along the route in Iowa. 143 00:08:40,462 --> 00:08:44,691 Speaker 4: But that sabotage is also justifying Joel and Robert's continued activities. 144 00:08:45,492 --> 00:08:48,771 Speaker 4: Neither Tiger Swan nor Energy Transfer responded to our requests 145 00:08:48,832 --> 00:08:54,061 Speaker 4: for comment. So Robert is trying to exacerbate division within 146 00:08:54,082 --> 00:08:57,181 Speaker 4: the movement to make the arguments that are already happening 147 00:08:57,222 --> 00:09:00,401 Speaker 4: at the camp even worse. And he also targets Little 148 00:09:00,421 --> 00:09:04,862 Speaker 4: Creek's neighbors. He apparently wants to start a counter-movement, one 149 00:09:04,881 --> 00:09:07,312 Speaker 4: with the same name as that new Facebook page. 150 00:09:08,631 --> 00:09:10,772 Speaker 8: I'm also working on getting a Defend Iowa group to 151 00:09:10,791 --> 00:09:13,611 Speaker 8: set up a camp or follow the Little Creekers around. 152 00:09:14,271 --> 00:09:17,192 Speaker 11: Encouraging people to follow campers could be tricky. If there's 153 00:09:17,212 --> 00:09:18,471 Speaker 11: an altercation, it would look bad. 154 00:09:19,502 --> 00:09:22,622 Speaker 2: Joel doesn't seem totally convinced at first of Robert's schemes. 155 00:09:23,041 --> 00:09:24,761 Speaker 7: Little Creek is heavily dependent on locals. 156 00:09:25,061 --> 00:09:26,941 Speaker 8: I get the feeling that if they lose local support, 157 00:09:26,962 --> 00:09:29,682 Speaker 8: they might go away, or if there is stronger pushback, 158 00:09:29,732 --> 00:09:32,351 Speaker 8: the landowner, Max, might get cold nerves. 159 00:09:32,391 --> 00:09:33,151 Speaker 7: And shut them down. 160 00:09:33,651 --> 00:09:36,671 Speaker 4: In fact, Robert has already posted the email address of 161 00:09:36,712 --> 00:09:39,672 Speaker 4: the owner of the Little Creek camp's land and encouraged 162 00:09:39,752 --> 00:09:40,752 Speaker 4: locals to complain. 163 00:09:41,112 --> 00:09:42,771 Speaker 8: We have several angles we are thinking about. 164 00:09:43,411 --> 00:09:46,382 Speaker 2: Joel seems to approve of this idea of targeting locals. 165 00:09:46,881 --> 00:09:49,181 Speaker 11: Local support is always a requirement for a successful camp. 166 00:09:49,931 --> 00:09:52,011 Speaker 11: They're insurgents. I go after them with that mindset. 167 00:09:53,131 --> 00:09:58,141 Speaker 4: He says it directly. Joel views water protectors as insurgents. 168 00:10:01,842 --> 00:10:02,462 Speaker 1: Gotta make a call. 169 00:10:02,842 --> 00:10:05,122 Speaker 11: Hit me up later or anytime if you have a question. 170 00:10:05,592 --> 00:10:07,352 Speaker 11: I spent a lot of time in Iowa last year. 171 00:10:07,752 --> 00:10:10,211 Speaker 7: Yeah, same here. I'm a night owl and I live online. 172 00:10:10,291 --> 00:10:12,541 Speaker 7: I'm at your service. if you need anything at all. 173 00:10:13,141 --> 00:10:15,872 Speaker 8: And I can exploit anything interesting you come across and 174 00:10:15,891 --> 00:10:19,431 Speaker 8: will really, really appreciate any info or insight. 175 00:10:20,472 --> 00:10:23,312 Speaker 4: They continue chatting the next day. Robert seems like he's 176 00:10:23,332 --> 00:10:24,651 Speaker 4: trying to prove himself to Joel. 177 00:10:25,592 --> 00:10:28,291 Speaker 8: Life circumstances kept me from serving, although I grew up 178 00:10:28,332 --> 00:10:31,201 Speaker 8: in the military. and come from a line of military guys. 179 00:10:31,281 --> 00:10:34,661 Speaker 8: My father was in the army 23 years, enlisted. My 180 00:10:34,702 --> 00:10:37,022 Speaker 8: grandfather commanded a guerrilla unit in the Korean War. 181 00:10:37,222 --> 00:10:41,141 Speaker 7: No joke. It was called Rice's Raiders. So anyway, I 182 00:10:41,181 --> 00:10:42,612 Speaker 7: have a deep amount of respect for vets. 183 00:10:43,391 --> 00:10:46,271 Speaker 4: As their chats go on, Joel rattles off tips for Robert. 184 00:10:46,972 --> 00:10:49,192 Speaker 4: Tells Robert who at the camp is well-liked and who 185 00:10:49,252 --> 00:10:52,771 Speaker 4: is disliked. He provides ideas for a social media segment 186 00:10:52,832 --> 00:10:53,732 Speaker 4: Robert wants to do. 187 00:10:53,752 --> 00:10:56,031 Speaker 7: Oh, hey, you might have some input on this one. 188 00:10:56,381 --> 00:10:59,672 Speaker 8: Have you seen those What People Say videos like Shit 189 00:10:59,692 --> 00:11:03,631 Speaker 8: hipsters say, or shit girls say, we are thinking about 190 00:11:03,671 --> 00:11:06,091 Speaker 8: doing one for shit water protesters say in the same 191 00:11:06,151 --> 00:11:07,352 Speaker 8: sort of fashion and humor. 192 00:11:07,811 --> 00:11:10,651 Speaker 7: But we need some good camp insight, otherwise we're just 193 00:11:10,692 --> 00:11:11,292 Speaker 7: making shit up. 194 00:11:13,372 --> 00:11:17,032 Speaker 1: First, it has to be water protectors, never protesters. 195 00:11:17,582 --> 00:11:18,681 Speaker 7: Sorry, old habit. 196 00:11:19,242 --> 00:11:21,502 Speaker 1: Yep, me too. They yell at you when you say 197 00:11:21,541 --> 00:11:23,742 Speaker 1: protester in a camp. Huge no-no. 198 00:11:24,362 --> 00:11:26,681 Speaker 11: White people claiming to be 1 16th Cherokee is always 199 00:11:26,722 --> 00:11:27,381 Speaker 11: funny to natives. 200 00:11:27,881 --> 00:11:30,011 Speaker 7: Ha ha ha. I know a lot of those types. 201 00:11:30,822 --> 00:11:34,181 Speaker 8: Best I can claim to, thank you, DNA test, is 2.5% 202 00:11:34,181 --> 00:11:35,901 Speaker 8: native something. 203 00:11:36,722 --> 00:11:39,781 Speaker 4: Meanwhile, Robert starts putting out more videos on the Defend 204 00:11:39,921 --> 00:11:43,281 Speaker 4: Iowa Facebook page. Up until this point, I've been thinking 205 00:11:43,322 --> 00:11:46,281 Speaker 4: of Robert as the propagandist and Joel as the infiltrator. 206 00:11:46,982 --> 00:11:49,622 Speaker 4: But in these videos, Robert is putting on an act, too. 207 00:11:50,541 --> 00:11:51,781 Speaker 4: Here's his real voice again. 208 00:11:52,202 --> 00:11:55,122 Speaker 6: Apparently, the charismatic Ed Fallon has taken over as the 209 00:11:55,161 --> 00:11:57,242 Speaker 6: de facto leader of Little Creek Camp. 210 00:11:57,362 --> 00:11:58,362 Speaker 9: In Williamsburg, Iowa. 211 00:11:59,031 --> 00:12:01,891 Speaker 4: In each video, he acts as a sort of newscaster, 212 00:12:02,212 --> 00:12:03,842 Speaker 4: aiming content at local people. 213 00:12:04,291 --> 00:12:06,521 Speaker 6: Camp members have stated they are going to begin flying 214 00:12:06,602 --> 00:12:09,761 Speaker 6: drones soon. If you live nearby, expect to see drones 215 00:12:09,801 --> 00:12:11,502 Speaker 6: in the sky above your homes and fields. 216 00:12:11,881 --> 00:12:15,602 Speaker 4: With each new video, the rumors fly. And Robert seems 217 00:12:15,641 --> 00:12:18,242 Speaker 4: to be soliciting some of the information from the people 218 00:12:18,281 --> 00:12:18,962 Speaker 4: in the community. 219 00:12:18,982 --> 00:12:22,322 Speaker 6: In the past few days, local residents have sent us 220 00:12:22,381 --> 00:12:25,622 Speaker 6: several emails that we think you should know about. Number one. 221 00:12:26,102 --> 00:12:29,021 Speaker 6: According to some sources on social media, the Little Creek 222 00:12:29,061 --> 00:12:31,582 Speaker 6: group has been dumping raw waste from their camps into 223 00:12:31,622 --> 00:12:32,322 Speaker 6: nearby creeks. 224 00:12:32,982 --> 00:12:35,581 Speaker 4: To be clear, Little Creek Camp had a compostable toilet, 225 00:12:36,102 --> 00:12:38,582 Speaker 4: and Sakawas Nobis told me they had porta-potties that were 226 00:12:38,622 --> 00:12:41,822 Speaker 4: cleaned every week. They didn't dump waste into the creeks, 227 00:12:42,002 --> 00:12:47,442 Speaker 4: she said. Robert isn't just posting things online, though. He 228 00:12:47,482 --> 00:12:50,002 Speaker 4: tells Joel he's stepping out from behind the role of 229 00:12:50,061 --> 00:12:53,622 Speaker 4: Facebook propagandist to manipulate people more directly. 230 00:12:53,641 --> 00:12:55,721 Speaker 8: I spent about an hour on the phone with a 231 00:12:55,781 --> 00:12:58,452 Speaker 8: local guy that is going to step into a leadership 232 00:12:58,492 --> 00:13:02,612 Speaker 8: role to organize a lot of redneck, sex military, Iowa 233 00:13:02,651 --> 00:13:05,091 Speaker 8: militia types that are fuming about this camp and want 234 00:13:05,112 --> 00:13:09,002 Speaker 8: to raise hell. We have them calming down. They're going 235 00:13:09,041 --> 00:13:10,782 Speaker 8: to be productive instead of stupid. 236 00:13:11,181 --> 00:13:12,902 Speaker 2: He says the locals have a lot of ideas. 237 00:13:13,872 --> 00:13:16,011 Speaker 8: These guys want to fly drones over Little Creek. Some 238 00:13:16,031 --> 00:13:18,832 Speaker 8: of the ex-military ones want to cut off electricity or 239 00:13:18,891 --> 00:13:19,732 Speaker 8: other shenanigans. 240 00:13:20,771 --> 00:13:25,911 Speaker 4: The line between propaganda and infiltration is getting thin. Robert 241 00:13:25,952 --> 00:13:28,551 Speaker 4: mentions that he got one specific local quoted in a 242 00:13:28,602 --> 00:13:32,361 Speaker 4: right-wing media outlet. He's one of my sources, Robert says. 243 00:13:33,161 --> 00:13:34,982 Speaker 4: Turns out to be a guy named Lance Schaefer. 244 00:13:36,702 --> 00:13:39,582 Speaker 12: Later on, I did find out that there were some Pretty, 245 00:13:39,962 --> 00:13:44,722 Speaker 12: pretty diehard protesters. And they they had records, you know, 246 00:13:44,842 --> 00:13:47,881 Speaker 12: they had criminal activity and we just wanted to make 247 00:13:47,921 --> 00:13:49,002 Speaker 12: sure the neighborhood was safe. 248 00:13:49,502 --> 00:13:50,141 Speaker 2: That's Lance. 249 00:13:50,722 --> 00:13:53,062 Speaker 4: We're sitting in the bed of his pickup truck, chatting 250 00:13:53,082 --> 00:13:56,592 Speaker 4: outside of Casey's gas station in the small town of Victor, Iowa. 251 00:13:57,252 --> 00:13:59,732 Speaker 4: He's got close cropped hair and a goatee that's streaked 252 00:13:59,771 --> 00:14:01,792 Speaker 4: with white. And he looks like he's been spending time 253 00:14:01,832 --> 00:14:04,511 Speaker 4: in the sun. Lance got to be really active on 254 00:14:04,531 --> 00:14:08,671 Speaker 4: Defend Iowa's Facebook page. After Defend Iowa posted the Little 255 00:14:08,712 --> 00:14:12,891 Speaker 4: Creek landowner's email address, Lance took it further and posted 256 00:14:12,911 --> 00:14:16,362 Speaker 4: the guy's phone number and home address too. Toss some 257 00:14:16,431 --> 00:14:18,482 Speaker 4: garbage on his front lawn and see how he and 258 00:14:18,541 --> 00:14:22,721 Speaker 4: his neighbors like it, Lance wrote. Another time, Lance posted, 259 00:14:22,742 --> 00:14:26,602 Speaker 4: time for the Iowa County Militia, adding, when there are 260 00:14:26,681 --> 00:14:29,422 Speaker 4: rats in the corn crib, you might have to burn 261 00:14:29,452 --> 00:14:32,612 Speaker 4: the whole corn crib so they move on. He wrote 262 00:14:32,622 --> 00:14:35,292 Speaker 4: that he was looking for a drone with video capability. 263 00:14:36,072 --> 00:14:39,012 Speaker 4: He doesn't remember the name Robert Rice. He does remember 264 00:14:39,052 --> 00:14:39,832 Speaker 4: a phone call, though. 265 00:14:40,412 --> 00:14:43,672 Speaker 12: Gave him insight as far as what they were doing 266 00:14:43,792 --> 00:14:47,061 Speaker 12: when they were out and about, walking around on the road, etc. 267 00:14:47,342 --> 00:14:49,162 Speaker 9: But I don't recall specifics on that. 268 00:14:50,092 --> 00:14:52,332 Speaker 4: I tell Lance about how Robert said he thought he 269 00:14:52,372 --> 00:14:55,012 Speaker 4: could convince locals to set up a camp and follow 270 00:14:55,052 --> 00:14:56,052 Speaker 4: little creakers around. 271 00:14:56,072 --> 00:14:57,992 Speaker 2: Does that, do you remember anything like that? 272 00:14:58,472 --> 00:14:59,892 Speaker 9: I do kind of recall that. 273 00:15:00,472 --> 00:15:03,512 Speaker 12: He wanted to get some people that would, I think 274 00:15:03,552 --> 00:15:06,162 Speaker 12: it would probably be a photo op that if they 275 00:15:06,222 --> 00:15:09,662 Speaker 12: were out protesting that there would be counter protesting against 276 00:15:09,742 --> 00:15:12,962 Speaker 12: them and hanging signs and banners, etc. 277 00:15:14,202 --> 00:15:16,302 Speaker 9: We weren't interested in following them around, so. 278 00:15:17,152 --> 00:15:19,811 Speaker 4: Lance tells me that despite his Facebook posts, he didn't 279 00:15:19,832 --> 00:15:21,852 Speaker 4: get a drone and he didn't throw garbage on the 280 00:15:21,872 --> 00:15:26,371 Speaker 4: landowner's land. But even if he didn't exactly follow the 281 00:15:26,412 --> 00:15:29,772 Speaker 4: pipeline opponents around, he did monitor their activity. 282 00:15:30,492 --> 00:15:33,351 Speaker 12: I'd been on a couple of patrols at night to 283 00:15:33,392 --> 00:15:35,272 Speaker 12: just go by and see what they were doing and 284 00:15:35,311 --> 00:15:37,912 Speaker 12: what they were up to. And as I said, there 285 00:15:37,931 --> 00:15:40,512 Speaker 12: was an implement store down the road they got broken into. 286 00:15:40,992 --> 00:15:42,852 Speaker 12: So we kind of wanted to make sure that they 287 00:15:42,892 --> 00:15:46,032 Speaker 12: weren't going out and causing trouble in the area, so. 288 00:15:47,082 --> 00:15:49,422 Speaker 4: I haven't seen any proof that anybody from Little Creek 289 00:15:49,502 --> 00:15:52,902 Speaker 4: robbed that store. But Lance was convinced that the campers 290 00:15:52,942 --> 00:15:55,492 Speaker 4: were up to no good. And although he doesn't give 291 00:15:55,522 --> 00:15:58,432 Speaker 4: much credit to the Defend Iowa Facebook page for influencing 292 00:15:58,452 --> 00:16:01,292 Speaker 4: his thinking on that, his comments show that he was 293 00:16:01,332 --> 00:16:04,712 Speaker 4: consuming its content. There was one other thing I was 294 00:16:04,892 --> 00:16:08,412 Speaker 4: really wondering about. Robert Rice had said he was talking 295 00:16:08,452 --> 00:16:12,451 Speaker 4: to militia types. And it turns out Lance had been 296 00:16:12,492 --> 00:16:13,532 Speaker 4: part of a militia movement. 297 00:16:14,582 --> 00:16:17,302 Speaker 12: The freedom and sovereign man movement and the militia and 298 00:16:17,342 --> 00:16:19,762 Speaker 12: those things, they kind of all go hand in hand. 299 00:16:20,602 --> 00:16:23,462 Speaker 4: Anyway, this militia crew was indeed part of the group 300 00:16:23,502 --> 00:16:26,952 Speaker 4: pushing back on the camp. So you're saying that those 301 00:16:27,012 --> 00:16:28,832 Speaker 4: guys were kind of involved in. 302 00:16:29,792 --> 00:16:32,812 Speaker 12: Yeah, they wanted to see who was in the neighborhood 303 00:16:32,832 --> 00:16:33,942 Speaker 12: and what was going on and. 304 00:16:35,482 --> 00:16:38,002 Speaker 12: A lot of people don't want to speak up, you know. 305 00:16:38,362 --> 00:16:42,022 Speaker 12: So these guys kind of say, hey, we're bold. We'll 306 00:16:42,042 --> 00:16:44,012 Speaker 12: go talk to people. We'll tell them, get out of here. 307 00:16:44,152 --> 00:16:45,691 Speaker 12: You know, that kind of thing. 308 00:16:46,052 --> 00:16:47,792 Speaker 2: I guess when I think of militia, I think of 309 00:16:47,872 --> 00:16:50,212 Speaker 2: like arms. Is that an important part of it? 310 00:16:50,372 --> 00:16:53,872 Speaker 12: Well, out here in the country, everybody's armed. I mean, 311 00:16:54,372 --> 00:16:56,762 Speaker 12: you know, look at deer season, pheasant season. 312 00:16:56,842 --> 00:16:57,722 Speaker 9: Everybody's armed. 313 00:16:58,342 --> 00:17:01,762 Speaker 4: Lance assured me that this militia was pretty unorganized. More 314 00:17:01,802 --> 00:17:05,582 Speaker 4: bark than bite. But I was struck. Before I left 315 00:17:05,622 --> 00:17:08,502 Speaker 4: the parking lot, I explained to Lance who Robert Rice 316 00:17:08,561 --> 00:17:11,882 Speaker 4: really was and what he and the infiltrator discussed in 317 00:17:11,902 --> 00:17:14,402 Speaker 4: their chats. But Lance seemed unworried. 318 00:17:15,382 --> 00:17:18,401 Speaker 12: I understand strategically it would make sense. You're going to 319 00:17:18,442 --> 00:17:23,462 Speaker 12: want the locals to be adversarial in nature to them 320 00:17:23,561 --> 00:17:25,502 Speaker 12: and try and drive them out and get them out, 321 00:17:25,581 --> 00:17:28,022 Speaker 12: keep the neighborhood the status quo that it is. I 322 00:17:28,442 --> 00:17:33,902 Speaker 12: can understand that philosophy. Good or bad, I don't know. 323 00:17:34,702 --> 00:17:37,982 Speaker 4: But not every local target of Tiger Swans propaganda was 324 00:17:38,061 --> 00:17:41,662 Speaker 4: so ambivalent. Darren Arrett lives in a community not far 325 00:17:41,722 --> 00:17:46,072 Speaker 4: from Lance's, and he stumbled across Defend Iowa's very first video. 326 00:17:46,091 --> 00:17:49,032 Speaker 11: Hello. 327 00:17:49,632 --> 00:17:50,272 Speaker 2: Hi, Darren. 328 00:17:50,292 --> 00:17:52,392 Speaker 11: Yeah, how are you doing? 329 00:17:52,792 --> 00:17:53,672 Speaker 9: I'm good. How are you? 330 00:17:53,692 --> 00:17:55,682 Speaker 2: Oh, not too bad. 331 00:17:56,142 --> 00:17:59,881 Speaker 4: The Facebook video Darren saw features pipeline opponents standing on 332 00:17:59,942 --> 00:18:05,032 Speaker 4: top of a truck yelling at police. There's a hashtag 333 00:18:05,052 --> 00:18:08,902 Speaker 4: in the corner that says Iowa Beware. It cuts to 334 00:18:08,922 --> 00:18:10,282 Speaker 4: a Bismarck police lieutenant. 335 00:18:12,022 --> 00:18:13,841 Speaker 7: Don't let it get too big too soon. 336 00:18:15,482 --> 00:18:18,282 Speaker 4: And a caption at the bottom says, look out, Iowa County. 337 00:18:18,522 --> 00:18:21,742 Speaker 4: You've got some potentially dangerous protesters like this making a 338 00:18:21,831 --> 00:18:25,432 Speaker 4: new home nearby. Just ask the folks in North Dakota, 339 00:18:25,692 --> 00:18:28,972 Speaker 4: says another caption. In fact, a number of North Dakotans 340 00:18:29,111 --> 00:18:30,871 Speaker 4: commented on and reacted. 341 00:18:30,512 --> 00:18:33,722 Speaker 2: To the video. This footage was actually recycled. 342 00:18:34,202 --> 00:18:36,782 Speaker 4: The cop interview and the police line footage were both 343 00:18:36,821 --> 00:18:40,292 Speaker 4: part of the propaganda documentary that we talked about last episode. 344 00:18:41,052 --> 00:18:43,892 Speaker 4: The one that used local North Dakotans' voices to say 345 00:18:43,932 --> 00:18:47,752 Speaker 4: that the protests were bad. Robert Rice was now using 346 00:18:47,772 --> 00:18:51,371 Speaker 4: the local people in North Dakota to get local Iowans 347 00:18:51,492 --> 00:18:54,612 Speaker 4: to rally against the Little Creek camp. And Darren from 348 00:18:54,811 --> 00:18:57,272 Speaker 4: Iowa was watching all this and taking. 349 00:18:57,012 --> 00:18:57,492 Speaker 2: It to heart. 350 00:18:58,591 --> 00:19:00,172 Speaker 13: Yeah, yeah, that's definitely the one I saw. 351 00:19:00,192 --> 00:19:00,852 Speaker 9: Oh, interesting. 352 00:19:00,912 --> 00:19:02,151 Speaker 13: And that's why I thought they were going to be 353 00:19:02,172 --> 00:19:02,631 Speaker 13: moving in. 354 00:19:03,331 --> 00:19:06,382 Speaker 4: When Darren realized that a group of water protectors would 355 00:19:06,422 --> 00:19:09,042 Speaker 4: be marching from the Little Creek camp and through his area, 356 00:19:09,402 --> 00:19:12,522 Speaker 4: he was alarmed. The march was led by an organization 357 00:19:12,581 --> 00:19:15,742 Speaker 4: called Bold Iowa. Their plan was to walk across the 358 00:19:15,782 --> 00:19:19,312 Speaker 4: state to try to start conversations with locals about climate change. 359 00:19:20,071 --> 00:19:21,852 Speaker 4: They had a documentary filmmaker with them. 360 00:19:22,692 --> 00:19:26,491 Speaker 1: We are unstoppable. Another world is possible. 361 00:19:27,652 --> 00:19:29,311 Speaker 4: When they stopped to camp at the park next to 362 00:19:29,351 --> 00:19:32,172 Speaker 4: Darren's house, he drove his Jeep to the property line 363 00:19:32,432 --> 00:19:35,652 Speaker 4: and left it there parked, flying both an American flag 364 00:19:35,871 --> 00:19:37,052 Speaker 4: and a Confederate flag. 365 00:19:37,512 --> 00:19:38,931 Speaker 13: You got to realize what time it was, 2016, 2017, 366 00:19:38,912 --> 00:19:43,882 Speaker 13: whatever it was. America's great, you know. 367 00:19:44,382 --> 00:19:47,222 Speaker 4: Darren said the Trump election had influenced his decision to 368 00:19:47,262 --> 00:19:50,242 Speaker 4: park the Jeep there. As for the Confederate flag. 369 00:19:50,262 --> 00:19:54,292 Speaker 13: I mean, it wasn't a racial thing by any means. 370 00:19:55,192 --> 00:19:56,052 Speaker 9: It was simply. 371 00:19:56,922 --> 00:19:59,711 Speaker 13: I don't know, kind of a states rates, you know, 372 00:20:01,081 --> 00:20:02,742 Speaker 13: to be bullied, that kind of thing. 373 00:20:03,482 --> 00:20:06,581 Speaker 4: The filmmaker Ralph King captured what happened next in his 374 00:20:06,621 --> 00:20:09,881 Speaker 4: documentary called Crossing the Divide. This is the voice of 375 00:20:09,962 --> 00:20:10,742 Speaker 4: one of the campers. 376 00:20:11,282 --> 00:20:15,961 Speaker 5: About 10 o'clock, I was ready to go back. I 377 00:20:16,182 --> 00:20:21,392 Speaker 5: noticed cars going very slowly, circling the camp, about five 378 00:20:21,412 --> 00:20:21,972 Speaker 5: miles an hour. 379 00:20:24,512 --> 00:20:27,861 Speaker 2: And I hear these loud booms. I mean, it sounded 380 00:20:27,902 --> 00:20:29,122 Speaker 2: like a cannon went off. 381 00:20:32,722 --> 00:20:36,941 Speaker 4: Someone was lighting off what sounds like firecrackers. Darren was 382 00:20:37,002 --> 00:20:39,992 Speaker 4: at home, and he heard them too. He started to 383 00:20:40,032 --> 00:20:43,571 Speaker 4: have a crisis of conscience. So the next morning, he 384 00:20:43,632 --> 00:20:46,311 Speaker 4: drove over to the camp, again from the documentary. 385 00:20:48,182 --> 00:20:50,811 Speaker 14: Hey, I just want to apologize for defending you guys yesterday. 386 00:20:51,252 --> 00:20:52,691 Speaker 14: We were told you guys were going to come over 387 00:20:52,732 --> 00:20:54,732 Speaker 14: and burn flags and that kind of stuff. No. And 388 00:20:54,752 --> 00:20:55,972 Speaker 14: I don't tolerate that kind of thing. 389 00:20:56,032 --> 00:20:57,412 Speaker 1: No, no, no, we don't do that. 390 00:20:57,432 --> 00:20:59,272 Speaker 9: So, no, absolutely not. 391 00:20:59,512 --> 00:21:00,071 Speaker 1: Wow. 392 00:21:00,472 --> 00:21:03,972 Speaker 14: Prayed about that last night and just really felt that 393 00:21:04,022 --> 00:21:04,972 Speaker 14: I was wrong, so. 394 00:21:04,992 --> 00:21:08,821 Speaker 4: I asked Darren how his impression of the people compared 395 00:21:08,861 --> 00:21:10,182 Speaker 4: to what he'd seen on Facebook. 396 00:21:10,202 --> 00:21:12,482 Speaker 13: Oh, it was night and day difference. 397 00:21:14,202 --> 00:21:15,442 Speaker 9: Super salt of the earth people. 398 00:21:15,462 --> 00:21:18,731 Speaker 13: I mean, just great, great people who had in their 399 00:21:18,782 --> 00:21:21,242 Speaker 13: hearts that they wanted to make the world a better place. 400 00:21:22,762 --> 00:21:26,302 Speaker 2: Robert Rice actually referenced this interaction in that WhatsApp chat. 401 00:21:26,742 --> 00:21:28,802 Speaker 7: We helped cause some ruffled feathers with one of the neighbors, 402 00:21:28,841 --> 00:21:31,522 Speaker 7: but they made up. I'm thinking all day how to 403 00:21:31,542 --> 00:21:34,351 Speaker 7: unravel that. It's infuriating, honestly. 404 00:21:34,371 --> 00:21:38,111 Speaker 9: You know, because that's not who I am. 405 00:21:38,252 --> 00:21:40,792 Speaker 13: I mean, I've never been that type of person. And 406 00:21:40,831 --> 00:21:45,032 Speaker 13: that's what, yeah, to be persuaded into doing something that's 407 00:21:45,091 --> 00:21:46,212 Speaker 13: out of character was. 408 00:21:47,532 --> 00:21:51,952 Speaker 2: Not pleasant. What did that make you think about Facebook 409 00:21:52,132 --> 00:21:54,441 Speaker 2: and the stuff that you had consumed there? 410 00:21:54,462 --> 00:21:58,881 Speaker 13: I think that was probably the beginning of realizing that 411 00:22:00,101 --> 00:22:03,482 Speaker 13: Facebook's nothing more than propaganda. I mean, it really is. 412 00:22:04,621 --> 00:22:07,742 Speaker 4: We know by now that the polarization that has infected 413 00:22:07,792 --> 00:22:10,192 Speaker 4: this country didn't just happen by accident. 414 00:22:11,132 --> 00:22:13,311 Speaker 2: And talking to Darren, it was so clear to me 415 00:22:13,432 --> 00:22:14,311 Speaker 2: that all this. 416 00:22:14,361 --> 00:22:18,762 Speaker 4: Online misinformation has disrupted more than big things like environmental 417 00:22:18,802 --> 00:22:23,202 Speaker 4: movements or climate action. It's kept us unwilling to build 418 00:22:23,242 --> 00:22:27,161 Speaker 4: relationships with our neighbors. The kinds of relationships that at 419 00:22:27,282 --> 00:22:30,902 Speaker 4: minimum just make life nicer and at best can make 420 00:22:30,942 --> 00:22:43,512 Speaker 4: our community stronger. Back on the chat with Robert Rice, 421 00:22:43,712 --> 00:22:47,032 Speaker 4: Joel McCullough throws out some ideas that push ethical boundaries 422 00:22:47,172 --> 00:22:51,571 Speaker 4: even further. He's looking into these acts of pipeline sabotage 423 00:22:51,611 --> 00:22:54,852 Speaker 4: I mentioned earlier, where someone used welding tools to poke 424 00:22:54,892 --> 00:22:58,892 Speaker 4: holes in above-ground pipeline valves. Joel pastes in the email 425 00:22:58,932 --> 00:23:02,002 Speaker 4: address of an activist who lives in the area. He 426 00:23:02,061 --> 00:23:03,941 Speaker 4: thinks this dude might have been in touch with the 427 00:23:03,982 --> 00:23:05,202 Speaker 4: pipeline saboteurs. 428 00:23:05,821 --> 00:23:06,662 Speaker 1: Can you hack his email? 429 00:23:07,282 --> 00:23:09,762 Speaker 7: My guys do not have tools to hack Gmail. The 430 00:23:09,802 --> 00:23:11,642 Speaker 7: company may have outside connections, maybe. 431 00:23:12,232 --> 00:23:13,932 Speaker 1: Don't know. I can reach out to a guy. 432 00:23:14,492 --> 00:23:16,652 Speaker 8: If we can't hack his Gmail, if we know where 433 00:23:16,712 --> 00:23:19,951 Speaker 8: he is when he sends it, I would imagine we 434 00:23:19,972 --> 00:23:22,572 Speaker 8: could trap his traffic or hack his system remotely. 435 00:23:23,632 --> 00:23:25,552 Speaker 7: That would require some people on the ground, but I. 436 00:23:25,652 --> 00:23:27,792 Speaker 8: Think I know guys that could do that. 437 00:23:28,611 --> 00:23:30,111 Speaker 1: Cool, cool. Hell yes. 438 00:23:32,652 --> 00:23:34,601 Speaker 4: I don't know if they ever actually hacked that guy's 439 00:23:34,692 --> 00:23:38,422 Speaker 4: email account, but to me, that exchange shows how far 440 00:23:38,462 --> 00:23:41,591 Speaker 4: these guys are willing to go. and how blurry the 441 00:23:41,652 --> 00:23:45,542 Speaker 4: line became between the pipeline's ground operation against the pipeline 442 00:23:45,581 --> 00:23:51,522 Speaker 4: resistance and their online narrative war. There's another thing going 443 00:23:51,561 --> 00:23:54,901 Speaker 4: on with Jewel throughout all of this. Remember, Jewel has 444 00:23:54,922 --> 00:23:57,772 Speaker 4: been going around acting like a friend of the water protectors. 445 00:23:58,611 --> 00:24:01,472 Speaker 4: In the fall, he was showing up at anti-pipeline encampments 446 00:24:01,532 --> 00:24:04,452 Speaker 4: in Iowa. By winter, he was hanging out at the 447 00:24:04,512 --> 00:24:07,952 Speaker 4: casino bar on the Standing Rock Sioux Reservation, where water 448 00:24:07,972 --> 00:24:11,142 Speaker 4: protectors went to get warm. And as spring came around, 449 00:24:11,361 --> 00:24:14,302 Speaker 4: he infiltrated the group Food and Water Watch in Chicago. 450 00:24:15,462 --> 00:24:18,942 Speaker 4: All along the way, he was establishing relationships with people 451 00:24:18,982 --> 00:24:22,882 Speaker 4: who genuinely believed he was their friend. On the chat 452 00:24:22,902 --> 00:24:25,962 Speaker 4: with the propagandist, he starts freaking out that he's about 453 00:24:26,002 --> 00:24:27,622 Speaker 4: to get outed as an infiltrator. 454 00:24:27,642 --> 00:24:31,091 Speaker 11: Hey man, a lot has changed in the past few days. 455 00:24:31,552 --> 00:24:33,371 Speaker 11: I found out someone is burning me and I think 456 00:24:33,792 --> 00:24:35,851 Speaker 11: it is Heather Pearson in Bold, Iowa. 457 00:24:36,742 --> 00:24:39,362 Speaker 4: Bold Iowa is that same group that did the march 458 00:24:39,402 --> 00:24:43,702 Speaker 4: across Iowa that Darren Arendt met. Heather Pearson is a 459 00:24:43,742 --> 00:24:47,601 Speaker 4: local activist. Joel thinks that Heather has leaked his name 460 00:24:47,702 --> 00:24:50,542 Speaker 4: as an infiltrator and that everyone is about to find 461 00:24:50,662 --> 00:24:52,841 Speaker 4: out that he's been betraying them all this time. 462 00:24:53,831 --> 00:24:56,382 Speaker 2: Joel's response? Speed up the rumor mill. 463 00:24:56,722 --> 00:24:59,331 Speaker 1: Anything you can do to discredit Bold Alliance would be good. 464 00:25:00,272 --> 00:25:01,972 Speaker 7: Yes, sir. Would you like to have that to go 465 00:25:02,071 --> 00:25:03,071 Speaker 7: or will you be dining in? 466 00:25:04,272 --> 00:25:05,752 Speaker 2: Joel has a specific concern. 467 00:25:06,472 --> 00:25:08,162 Speaker 1: I called The Intercept and gave them my real name 468 00:25:08,182 --> 00:25:08,762 Speaker 1: to go after. 469 00:25:09,382 --> 00:25:12,061 Speaker 4: I worked at The Intercept at that time. Did Heather 470 00:25:12,101 --> 00:25:13,462 Speaker 4: actually tip me off, you ask? 471 00:25:14,202 --> 00:25:14,702 Speaker 2: No comment. 472 00:25:15,502 --> 00:25:17,421 Speaker 1: The Intercept goes after me, I could get fucked. 473 00:25:18,502 --> 00:25:20,682 Speaker 11: A friend of mine had Activist empty his bank account 474 00:25:20,702 --> 00:25:23,542 Speaker 11: and steal his identity all within 24 hours of his 475 00:25:23,581 --> 00:25:25,141 Speaker 11: name getting out there. Damn. 476 00:25:25,682 --> 00:25:26,382 Speaker 1: This shit is real. 477 00:25:27,121 --> 00:25:29,282 Speaker 7: Yeah, I know. Okay, so what can we do to 478 00:25:29,321 --> 00:25:30,831 Speaker 7: turn things around? Discredit Heather? 479 00:25:31,182 --> 00:25:31,422 Speaker 1: Yes. 480 00:25:32,111 --> 00:25:33,792 Speaker 7: Okay, tell me what you can about her. 481 00:25:34,392 --> 00:25:36,172 Speaker 2: Eventually, Joel throws out an idea. 482 00:25:36,831 --> 00:25:39,651 Speaker 1: If her bank account was empty, that would distract her 483 00:25:39,692 --> 00:25:40,871 Speaker 1: a lot. Just saying. 484 00:25:41,272 --> 00:25:43,672 Speaker 7: I'm not that good. LOL. 485 00:25:43,692 --> 00:25:45,292 Speaker 1: I might know a guy. 486 00:25:46,321 --> 00:25:49,282 Speaker 4: To review, Joel just said he's worried about his bank 487 00:25:49,341 --> 00:25:52,082 Speaker 4: account being emptied because a bunch of people who think 488 00:25:52,101 --> 00:25:54,722 Speaker 4: he's their friend might soon find out he's been lying 489 00:25:54,782 --> 00:25:58,172 Speaker 4: to them. And his solution is to empty the alleged 490 00:25:58,292 --> 00:26:02,232 Speaker 4: leaker's bank account. This dude's moral compass is spinning round 491 00:26:02,272 --> 00:26:06,012 Speaker 4: and round. The duo throw around ideas about how they 492 00:26:06,052 --> 00:26:08,071 Speaker 4: can protect Joel by discrediting Heather. 493 00:26:08,652 --> 00:26:11,672 Speaker 2: Islamophobia, maybe? Perhaps some Red Scare vibes? 494 00:26:12,492 --> 00:26:14,581 Speaker 11: You can ask about one of Heather's closest confidants is 495 00:26:14,632 --> 00:26:15,672 Speaker 11: an Islamic communist. 496 00:26:16,702 --> 00:26:18,462 Speaker 7: Oh, that sounds juicy. 497 00:26:19,581 --> 00:26:22,401 Speaker 4: How about an extramarital affair, Joel suggests? 498 00:26:22,982 --> 00:26:23,722 Speaker 9: He's always there. 499 00:26:23,742 --> 00:26:24,862 Speaker 1: The husband is at home. 500 00:26:25,722 --> 00:26:26,742 Speaker 7: Well, that's interesting. 501 00:26:27,482 --> 00:26:30,561 Speaker 8: When camp numbers go back up after everyone returns and 502 00:26:30,601 --> 00:26:31,582 Speaker 8: some new people are there. 503 00:26:32,522 --> 00:26:33,802 Speaker 7: This is something I can exploit. 504 00:26:34,371 --> 00:26:34,811 Speaker 9: Good shit. 505 00:26:35,642 --> 00:26:39,232 Speaker 8: Rumors of extramarital shenanigans from a source in camp disappointed 506 00:26:39,292 --> 00:26:41,372 Speaker 8: by the drugs, sex, and alcohol. 507 00:26:41,831 --> 00:26:44,032 Speaker 7: It's not a good environment for Iowan kids, and it 508 00:26:44,111 --> 00:26:46,032 Speaker 7: is against the rules of the camp, you know? 509 00:26:46,371 --> 00:26:46,571 Speaker 9: Yep. 510 00:26:48,472 --> 00:26:51,151 Speaker 7: Best part is, that will make them all suspicious of 511 00:26:51,212 --> 00:26:51,572 Speaker 7: each other. 512 00:26:57,272 --> 00:26:59,351 Speaker 2: Again, I don't know that they actually did these things. 513 00:26:59,942 --> 00:27:02,381 Speaker 4: But what Robert Rice did do was that he found 514 00:27:02,442 --> 00:27:04,931 Speaker 4: a comment Heather had made on Facebook and used it 515 00:27:04,972 --> 00:27:05,452 Speaker 4: against her. 516 00:27:06,412 --> 00:27:09,811 Speaker 15: I made a comment about being a goofy Iowa farm 517 00:27:09,871 --> 00:27:14,311 Speaker 15: wife because that's what I was describing myself because I 518 00:27:14,371 --> 00:27:17,752 Speaker 15: personally am goofy and an Iowa farm wife. 519 00:27:18,371 --> 00:27:21,581 Speaker 4: Robert describes his plan on the chat. He says highlighting 520 00:27:21,632 --> 00:27:24,452 Speaker 4: Heather's post might get the good old boys riled up. 521 00:27:24,782 --> 00:27:25,462 Speaker 7: How does this sound? 522 00:27:25,972 --> 00:27:30,411 Speaker 8: Little Creek camp activist dresses up like goofy Iowa farm 523 00:27:30,452 --> 00:27:33,071 Speaker 8: wife for climate justice march on Saturday. 524 00:27:33,392 --> 00:27:34,012 Speaker 7: Isn't that precious? 525 00:27:34,752 --> 00:27:37,892 Speaker 8: This is how these hipster social justice warriors and eco 526 00:27:37,992 --> 00:27:39,321 Speaker 8: activists think about Iowans. 527 00:27:40,412 --> 00:27:43,512 Speaker 15: They posted it. and twisted what I had to say. 528 00:27:44,061 --> 00:27:48,522 Speaker 15: And I actually got threatening messages from random people in 529 00:27:48,722 --> 00:27:54,361 Speaker 15: Iowa who were berating me for talking down about Iowa 530 00:27:54,402 --> 00:27:55,042 Speaker 15: farm wives. 531 00:27:55,242 --> 00:28:00,141 Speaker 2: I told Heather about the extramarital affair rumor. No extramarital affairs, 532 00:28:00,292 --> 00:28:04,012 Speaker 2: no nothing. And about the bank account suggestion. Did anything 533 00:28:04,071 --> 00:28:05,512 Speaker 2: ever happen with your bank account? 534 00:28:06,621 --> 00:28:09,722 Speaker 15: Not that I was ever aware of. And oh, my goodness, 535 00:28:09,831 --> 00:28:12,832 Speaker 15: I didn't know that that was even a possibility. 536 00:28:12,851 --> 00:28:12,921 Speaker 11: Wow. 537 00:28:15,912 --> 00:28:18,811 Speaker 2: Heather explained that she had gotten a tip on Facebook 538 00:28:18,952 --> 00:28:22,232 Speaker 2: from an anonymous person saying that Joel was an infiltrator. 539 00:28:22,552 --> 00:28:24,831 Speaker 15: So, I mean, I guess he was right as in 540 00:28:24,912 --> 00:28:27,561 Speaker 15: the I was out to get him. I don't know 541 00:28:27,601 --> 00:28:29,321 Speaker 15: if I would have used those words. It was more 542 00:28:29,382 --> 00:28:32,542 Speaker 15: like I was exposing what he was doing. 543 00:28:33,512 --> 00:28:36,631 Speaker 4: After Robert suggests the Iowa Farm Wives post, Joel cheers 544 00:28:36,672 --> 00:28:38,752 Speaker 4: right up, and the two congratulate each other. 545 00:28:38,772 --> 00:28:42,652 Speaker 9: Dude, you're brilliant. 546 00:28:43,062 --> 00:28:44,921 Speaker 1: How are you not making millions as a campaign manager? 547 00:28:45,502 --> 00:28:47,822 Speaker 8: Because I just discovered a knack for this business back 548 00:28:47,862 --> 00:28:48,482 Speaker 8: in September. 549 00:28:49,022 --> 00:28:50,662 Speaker 1: I like being able to feed you targets. 550 00:28:51,322 --> 00:28:53,182 Speaker 2: They continue chatting into the night. 551 00:28:53,782 --> 00:28:55,462 Speaker 7: I just need a little something to work with, and 552 00:28:55,502 --> 00:28:57,362 Speaker 7: we can spin a tapestry. 553 00:28:58,342 --> 00:29:00,832 Speaker 4: And Robert gives a hat tip to the private Facebook 554 00:29:00,872 --> 00:29:03,752 Speaker 4: group from North Dakota, which he apparently is still using 555 00:29:03,792 --> 00:29:05,552 Speaker 4: to spread anti-protest feelings. 556 00:29:05,952 --> 00:29:07,552 Speaker 7: It helps that we have a large fan base with 557 00:29:07,572 --> 00:29:11,752 Speaker 7: the Defend Biz Man crowd. They love us and are 558 00:29:11,792 --> 00:29:15,842 Speaker 7: quick to jump in, comment, share, and fight the activist trolls. 559 00:29:16,622 --> 00:29:18,982 Speaker 4: Robert and Joel's chat fades out after a few weeks. 560 00:29:19,462 --> 00:29:22,602 Speaker 4: But before it does, Joel throws out one more big idea. 561 00:29:23,702 --> 00:29:25,382 Speaker 4: He wants to start bribing people. 562 00:29:27,042 --> 00:29:27,202 Speaker 10: So. 563 00:29:28,012 --> 00:29:30,692 Speaker 11: I'm starting a new initiative. We're going to try to 564 00:29:30,852 --> 00:29:35,282 Speaker 11: turn activists offered to pay for information. So we're going 565 00:29:35,302 --> 00:29:38,642 Speaker 11: to start looking for individuals who need money. Maybe they're disillusioned. 566 00:29:39,322 --> 00:29:41,882 Speaker 11: Can you come up with a few names of vulnerable activists, 567 00:29:42,182 --> 00:29:44,602 Speaker 11: all four states and beyond? I'm going to task the 568 00:29:44,642 --> 00:29:47,172 Speaker 11: analysts in the states to do the same. If they 569 00:29:47,192 --> 00:29:49,832 Speaker 11: turn down the offer, we still win because they'll start 570 00:29:49,872 --> 00:29:50,971 Speaker 11: wondering who did take the money. 571 00:29:51,042 --> 00:29:51,642 Speaker 1: To inform. 572 00:29:52,202 --> 00:29:54,642 Speaker 7: Oh, I like it. Roger that on initiative. I think 573 00:29:54,662 --> 00:29:55,702 Speaker 7: we can come up with some names. 574 00:29:56,222 --> 00:29:56,502 Speaker 9: Awesome. 575 00:29:58,462 --> 00:30:01,921 Speaker 4: The conversation stops a few days later. And honestly, I 576 00:30:01,982 --> 00:30:04,322 Speaker 4: wonder if I played a role in that because me 577 00:30:04,342 --> 00:30:06,462 Speaker 4: and my colleagues at The Intercept started to put out 578 00:30:06,502 --> 00:30:09,772 Speaker 4: a series of stories about internal TigerSwan documents that had 579 00:30:09,792 --> 00:30:12,742 Speaker 4: been leaked to us. But even though we published Robert 580 00:30:12,782 --> 00:30:15,122 Speaker 4: Rice's name, he didn't actually quit. 581 00:30:15,982 --> 00:30:17,562 Speaker 2: And things started to get weird. 582 00:30:18,182 --> 00:30:20,842 Speaker 4: Suddenly, all these new propaganda pages appeared. 583 00:30:20,862 --> 00:30:25,192 Speaker 2: Welcome to Cats for Truth. 584 00:30:25,672 --> 00:30:26,052 Speaker 11: I'm Mr. 585 00:30:26,112 --> 00:30:26,532 Speaker 15: Wiggles. 586 00:30:27,492 --> 00:30:30,732 Speaker 4: Today we're going to talk about anarchists, cults, and dangerous 587 00:30:30,812 --> 00:30:31,792 Speaker 4: leftist agendas. 588 00:30:33,532 --> 00:30:34,472 Speaker 2: That's Cats for Truth. 589 00:30:34,902 --> 00:30:38,402 Speaker 4: A Facebook page featuring a video where pretend newscasters wear 590 00:30:38,482 --> 00:30:41,322 Speaker 4: giant cat masks and talk shit about water protectors. 591 00:30:41,802 --> 00:30:43,782 Speaker 2: There was also Black Badger report. 592 00:30:44,262 --> 00:30:47,642 Speaker 4: It looked like an investigative news site, but featured headlines like, 593 00:30:47,872 --> 00:30:52,731 Speaker 4: The Intercept is connected to communist groups. Joel fades from 594 00:30:52,772 --> 00:30:56,171 Speaker 4: the record at this point. But it seems like propagandists 595 00:30:56,452 --> 00:30:59,132 Speaker 4: actually did carry out his big idea to bribe people 596 00:30:59,172 --> 00:31:02,932 Speaker 4: for information. Because a story soon appeared on the Black 597 00:31:02,992 --> 00:31:06,562 Speaker 4: Badger Report website. It featured a detailed account from a 598 00:31:06,602 --> 00:31:09,662 Speaker 4: woman who was subjected to unwanted advances at the Little 599 00:31:09,702 --> 00:31:13,382 Speaker 4: Creek camp by two people who had been drinking. The 600 00:31:13,422 --> 00:31:16,322 Speaker 4: anonymous author claimed the story was leaked to them and 601 00:31:16,342 --> 00:31:19,012 Speaker 4: that they paid someone from the inside to provide it. 602 00:31:20,102 --> 00:31:22,682 Speaker 4: They even included screenshots they said came from the chat 603 00:31:22,702 --> 00:31:23,282 Speaker 4: with the leaker. 604 00:31:25,062 --> 00:31:28,102 Speaker 10: I want your story, all of it, all the good stuff, 605 00:31:28,362 --> 00:31:31,712 Speaker 10: all the bad stuff, all the dirt on camp life, everything. 606 00:31:32,372 --> 00:31:34,192 Speaker 10: A friend and I are working on a story about 607 00:31:34,212 --> 00:31:36,932 Speaker 10: the water protector movement. For a little bit of time 608 00:31:36,972 --> 00:31:41,052 Speaker 10: over email, we'll pay $ 300 to your PayPal. I'll send 609 00:31:41,072 --> 00:31:42,832 Speaker 10: you a $ 50 gas card overnight. 610 00:31:44,862 --> 00:31:47,402 Speaker 4: When I asked around about who might have been the leaker, 611 00:31:48,062 --> 00:31:49,562 Speaker 4: I got a tip that it might be a guy 612 00:31:49,582 --> 00:31:52,542 Speaker 4: named Chris Truitt. So I tracked him down in a 613 00:31:52,602 --> 00:31:54,701 Speaker 4: rundown part of Davenport, Iowa. 614 00:31:56,942 --> 00:31:58,802 Speaker 7: Miko, go lay down somewhere. 615 00:31:59,522 --> 00:31:59,942 Speaker 9: Come on, bud. 616 00:31:59,962 --> 00:32:01,142 Speaker 10: Come on. 617 00:32:04,602 --> 00:32:05,322 Speaker 2: How old is he? 618 00:32:05,322 --> 00:32:05,382 Speaker 11: 13. 619 00:32:05,362 --> 00:32:07,161 Speaker 7: Oh my gosh, he's old. 620 00:32:07,242 --> 00:32:11,242 Speaker 2: Yeah, he's old. He's old for a big dog. I 621 00:32:11,262 --> 00:32:13,102 Speaker 2: start chatting with Chris about Little Creek. 622 00:32:13,842 --> 00:32:15,961 Speaker 16: I can't remember what month it was, but it was 623 00:32:16,012 --> 00:32:20,872 Speaker 16: still cold. So me and my dog went up there 624 00:32:20,932 --> 00:32:24,352 Speaker 16: and we set camp in a tent. People would wander in. 625 00:32:25,202 --> 00:32:30,522 Speaker 16: And it started building up. I was the, I guess 626 00:32:30,562 --> 00:32:33,562 Speaker 16: you could say the chef of the camp. I took 627 00:32:33,622 --> 00:32:34,842 Speaker 16: care of all the food and all that. 628 00:32:35,362 --> 00:32:37,622 Speaker 2: Chris remembers the Defend Iowa page well. 629 00:32:38,022 --> 00:32:41,022 Speaker 16: It was a propaganda page is what I would call it. 630 00:32:41,242 --> 00:32:45,472 Speaker 16: They just basically tried to, you know, get people to, 631 00:32:46,132 --> 00:32:50,522 Speaker 16: you know, go against the movement and I think it 632 00:32:50,562 --> 00:32:52,822 Speaker 16: was successful for the most part because a lot of 633 00:32:52,842 --> 00:32:55,302 Speaker 16: people did believe the crap that was being said. 634 00:32:56,262 --> 00:33:00,422 Speaker 4: Chris acknowledged that Little Creek struggled with internal conflicts. For example, 635 00:33:00,542 --> 00:33:03,152 Speaker 4: it was supposed to be an alcohol-free space and sometimes 636 00:33:03,212 --> 00:33:06,512 Speaker 4: people drank. And the Facebook stuff made the conflicts that 637 00:33:06,552 --> 00:33:10,931 Speaker 4: existed worse. What impact do you think it had internally? 638 00:33:10,952 --> 00:33:14,451 Speaker 9: It created friction. 639 00:33:15,252 --> 00:33:17,152 Speaker 16: And that's what it was devised to do. 640 00:33:17,262 --> 00:33:20,082 Speaker 7: And it worked. It created a lot of division. 641 00:33:20,642 --> 00:33:22,782 Speaker 4: Chris is pretty sure it was sometime after one of 642 00:33:22,822 --> 00:33:25,701 Speaker 4: these arguments that he heard from someone unfamiliar. 643 00:33:25,722 --> 00:33:32,002 Speaker 7: I had somebody reach out to me to get the 644 00:33:32,062 --> 00:33:32,902 Speaker 7: full story. 645 00:33:33,542 --> 00:33:36,282 Speaker 2: They said they'd pay him to tell them about Little Creek. 646 00:33:36,722 --> 00:33:38,242 Speaker 7: They just wouldn't leave me alone. 647 00:33:38,832 --> 00:33:42,392 Speaker 16: They kept trying to entice me to get this story. 648 00:33:42,412 --> 00:33:42,482 Speaker 11: And. 649 00:33:46,822 --> 00:33:49,622 Speaker 16: Finally, I gave in, and I gave them a story, 650 00:33:49,662 --> 00:33:52,442 Speaker 16: all right, but it wasn't the story that they wanted. 651 00:33:54,502 --> 00:33:58,802 Speaker 4: Who did he claim he was, and why did he 652 00:33:58,842 --> 00:34:00,262 Speaker 4: say he wanted this information? 653 00:34:00,282 --> 00:34:03,462 Speaker 7: I can't remember who he said he was. 654 00:34:03,482 --> 00:34:09,132 Speaker 4: I show Chris the article from Black Badger Report. Well, 655 00:34:09,212 --> 00:34:10,372 Speaker 4: I gave Miko some pets. 656 00:34:10,392 --> 00:34:12,812 Speaker 9: Wow, this is crazy. 657 00:34:12,912 --> 00:34:16,872 Speaker 16: I didn't... I didn't know a lot of this stuff here. 658 00:34:17,992 --> 00:34:21,691 Speaker 4: I've heard allegations that it was you that leaked this thing. 659 00:34:21,712 --> 00:34:22,712 Speaker 7: I didn't leak it. 660 00:34:23,592 --> 00:34:24,312 Speaker 1: I promise I didn't. 661 00:34:26,471 --> 00:34:29,182 Speaker 16: I did, like I said, I had somebody reach out 662 00:34:29,221 --> 00:34:32,122 Speaker 16: to me and I gave them basic information, but I 663 00:34:32,142 --> 00:34:33,681 Speaker 16: didn't give that type of information. 664 00:34:34,062 --> 00:34:34,701 Speaker 9: Right, right. 665 00:34:35,082 --> 00:34:36,681 Speaker 7: Yeah, that would never come from me. 666 00:34:37,822 --> 00:34:40,361 Speaker 4: But whatever he said or didn't say, Chris did accept 667 00:34:40,402 --> 00:34:44,072 Speaker 4: the offer of money for information. What made you, why 668 00:34:44,132 --> 00:34:46,372 Speaker 4: did you take money from them and. 669 00:34:46,372 --> 00:34:46,892 Speaker 2: Talk to them? 670 00:34:48,112 --> 00:34:54,491 Speaker 16: Because I needed money at the time. I figured they 671 00:34:54,512 --> 00:34:56,852 Speaker 16: were playing a game. So I was trying to play 672 00:34:56,872 --> 00:35:01,342 Speaker 16: a game back and get over on them easy. You 673 00:35:01,362 --> 00:35:01,942 Speaker 16: know what I'm saying? 674 00:35:01,962 --> 00:35:03,942 Speaker 7: Like, so I tried to get that. 675 00:35:03,782 --> 00:35:06,762 Speaker 16: Easy money and just give them basic details. 676 00:35:06,782 --> 00:35:07,982 Speaker 9: You know what I'm saying? 677 00:35:09,322 --> 00:35:12,372 Speaker 2: Joel McCullough, the infiltrator, had said in his WhatsApp chat 678 00:35:12,392 --> 00:35:15,052 Speaker 2: to Robert Rice that he figured even if a person 679 00:35:15,112 --> 00:35:17,332 Speaker 2: said no to a bribe, it would still be worth 680 00:35:17,392 --> 00:35:20,312 Speaker 2: it because it would make the water protectors suspicious of 681 00:35:20,372 --> 00:35:23,682 Speaker 2: each other. All of these things they'd been doing from 682 00:35:23,701 --> 00:35:26,502 Speaker 2: the Facebook post to the phone calls with locals to 683 00:35:26,542 --> 00:35:30,542 Speaker 2: the bribes, they attack that basic building block of any 684 00:35:30,602 --> 00:35:35,042 Speaker 2: movement or any relationship really, trust. So what do you 685 00:35:35,142 --> 00:35:38,051 Speaker 2: do once that's been attacked so relentlessly? 686 00:35:40,382 --> 00:35:42,281 Speaker 5: I'm just going to show Aileen. I'll just be gone 687 00:35:42,302 --> 00:35:43,962 Speaker 5: for five minutes because I'm just going to show Aileen 688 00:35:44,122 --> 00:35:44,562 Speaker 5: the land. 689 00:35:45,842 --> 00:35:48,802 Speaker 4: It's been a long time since Little Creek closed down, 690 00:35:49,201 --> 00:35:53,042 Speaker 4: and Sakawis Nobis has spent the last decade building something new. 691 00:35:53,642 --> 00:35:57,671 Speaker 5: So these two houses here are ours as well. That'll 692 00:35:57,692 --> 00:35:59,431 Speaker 5: be their healing justice house, that purple one. 693 00:35:59,931 --> 00:36:03,652 Speaker 4: Her organization, Great Plains Action Society, has bought up almost 694 00:36:03,692 --> 00:36:06,272 Speaker 4: a whole block in the college town of Iowa City. 695 00:36:06,951 --> 00:36:08,072 Speaker 2: She's got big plans. 696 00:36:08,632 --> 00:36:11,312 Speaker 4: They've already converted an old scooter dealer into a sort 697 00:36:11,332 --> 00:36:14,011 Speaker 4: of community center, and they've cleared a lot for a garden. 698 00:36:15,362 --> 00:36:19,822 Speaker 5: And we'll be putting a big fence around it for deer. 699 00:36:20,642 --> 00:36:23,362 Speaker 4: One old building will house spaces for people to incubate 700 00:36:23,422 --> 00:36:26,862 Speaker 4: small businesses. A little old house has been remodeled to 701 00:36:26,922 --> 00:36:30,102 Speaker 4: put up guests, and another little house will soon be offices. 702 00:36:30,741 --> 00:36:33,462 Speaker 4: They're setting up an art gallery and a mutual aid cafe. 703 00:36:34,181 --> 00:36:36,661 Speaker 5: Like if you had been here two weeks ago, it 704 00:36:37,201 --> 00:36:38,502 Speaker 5: would have been so different. 705 00:36:39,012 --> 00:36:42,852 Speaker 4: Sakawas sees what she's doing on this land as rematriation. 706 00:36:43,712 --> 00:36:47,552 Speaker 4: Part of that is restoring colonized landscapes. But it's also 707 00:36:47,612 --> 00:36:51,201 Speaker 4: about bringing back the matriarchy. What is the work of 708 00:36:51,282 --> 00:36:52,801 Speaker 4: bringing back the matriarchy? 709 00:36:53,241 --> 00:36:55,701 Speaker 5: It's really about making sure that everybody is taken care of. 710 00:36:55,962 --> 00:36:59,942 Speaker 5: That's what a mother does in her home. It's like 711 00:37:00,022 --> 00:37:01,942 Speaker 5: everybody has a spot at the table. Everybody's going to 712 00:37:01,962 --> 00:37:03,842 Speaker 5: get fed. Everybody's going to have a place to sleep. 713 00:37:04,602 --> 00:37:07,221 Speaker 4: I'd planned to talk to Sakawas about Defend Iowa while 714 00:37:07,241 --> 00:37:09,741 Speaker 4: I'm here. But she asked to run and we agreed 715 00:37:09,782 --> 00:37:13,032 Speaker 4: to talk the next day. It ended up being over Zoom. 716 00:37:13,832 --> 00:37:16,691 Speaker 4: Sikawis told me that the stuff Defend Iowa said about 717 00:37:16,712 --> 00:37:19,772 Speaker 4: the camp was bullshit. But part of what made the 718 00:37:19,812 --> 00:37:23,332 Speaker 4: divisive tactics hurtful was that the campers at Little Creek 719 00:37:23,372 --> 00:37:25,432 Speaker 4: were already grappling with so much. 720 00:37:26,411 --> 00:37:30,372 Speaker 5: There was a lot of very damaged people with PTSD 721 00:37:30,431 --> 00:37:33,862 Speaker 5: there working on their issues there. That we did not expect. 722 00:37:33,882 --> 00:37:36,512 Speaker 5: And you could see none of these people were, like, 723 00:37:36,612 --> 00:37:39,832 Speaker 5: nobody was well, like, was coming back from Standing Rock. 724 00:37:40,292 --> 00:37:42,471 Speaker 4: But even if Little Creek was far from being a 725 00:37:42,532 --> 00:37:46,451 Speaker 4: threat to the community like Defend Iowa claimed, the internal 726 00:37:46,532 --> 00:37:50,092 Speaker 4: conflicts were tough. Sakawa said they did their best to 727 00:37:50,161 --> 00:37:53,122 Speaker 4: manage it. For example, in the case of the woman 728 00:37:53,181 --> 00:37:55,942 Speaker 4: who was harassed by men at the camp, the incident 729 00:37:55,962 --> 00:37:58,951 Speaker 4: Black Badger report wrote about, She said they kicked out 730 00:37:58,991 --> 00:38:01,652 Speaker 4: the main perpetrator and worked with the woman to try 731 00:38:01,692 --> 00:38:06,852 Speaker 4: to repair what happened. These propagandists were poking at sensitive spots. 732 00:38:07,491 --> 00:38:11,052 Speaker 5: I think it's all harmful. I don't care if it's goofy. 733 00:38:11,232 --> 00:38:13,832 Speaker 5: Even having this conversation with you right now affects me 734 00:38:13,931 --> 00:38:18,732 Speaker 5: because I'm thinking back on it and like now it 735 00:38:18,772 --> 00:38:22,801 Speaker 5: makes me feel like they've tainted something. You know, they 736 00:38:22,822 --> 00:38:28,261 Speaker 5: took regular situations where people were struggling and and where 737 00:38:28,282 --> 00:38:30,461 Speaker 5: people were trying to do good things and do something 738 00:38:30,482 --> 00:38:34,422 Speaker 5: they've never done before. And they tried to make them 739 00:38:34,482 --> 00:38:35,942 Speaker 5: look sinister. 740 00:38:36,342 --> 00:38:39,142 Speaker 4: She still feels the impact of what Robert Rice and 741 00:38:39,201 --> 00:38:41,982 Speaker 4: Tiger Swan did a decade later. 742 00:38:44,302 --> 00:38:47,681 Speaker 2: Tiger Swan was doing all these different things in North Dakota, 743 00:38:47,741 --> 00:38:51,002 Speaker 2: the things that they tried to do at Little Creek Camp, infiltration, 744 00:38:51,122 --> 00:38:54,142 Speaker 2: aerial surveillance, like all kinds of weird meddling, trying to 745 00:38:54,181 --> 00:38:58,062 Speaker 2: divide communities. In the end, what do you think the 746 00:38:58,142 --> 00:39:02,432 Speaker 2: biggest impact of the things that they did actually was? 747 00:39:04,592 --> 00:39:10,792 Speaker 5: I think it's long-term mental health issues on people, making 748 00:39:10,911 --> 00:39:18,671 Speaker 5: some of us more paranoid, causing division in, you know, 749 00:39:19,272 --> 00:39:23,281 Speaker 5: even if it's just between two people, you know, that's, 750 00:39:24,951 --> 00:39:26,951 Speaker 5: Two people that could have been friends for life, but 751 00:39:26,991 --> 00:39:27,732 Speaker 5: they ruined that. 752 00:39:28,312 --> 00:39:31,862 Speaker 2: Are there lessons that you take from what happened at 753 00:39:31,882 --> 00:39:32,482 Speaker 2: Little Creek? 754 00:39:32,802 --> 00:39:33,902 Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. 755 00:39:34,422 --> 00:39:36,802 Speaker 5: Being careful about who you bring into your space, vetting 756 00:39:36,822 --> 00:39:43,091 Speaker 5: people much more, um not putting up with um not 757 00:39:43,112 --> 00:39:48,512 Speaker 5: putting up with uh problematic behavior just you just can't 758 00:39:48,612 --> 00:39:51,612 Speaker 5: you just can't if you're building you know um if 759 00:39:51,642 --> 00:39:53,682 Speaker 5: you're trying to build a healthy community and that's why 760 00:39:53,721 --> 00:39:57,301 Speaker 5: we have a healing justice house in our space in 761 00:39:57,322 --> 00:39:58,161 Speaker 5: our community. 762 00:39:58,672 --> 00:40:00,951 Speaker 4: Darren Arrett, the guy who parked his Jeep with the 763 00:40:00,991 --> 00:40:05,151 Speaker 4: Confederate flag at the Water Protectors campsite, he's learned lessons, too. 764 00:40:05,172 --> 00:40:08,832 Speaker 13: I look at people a lot different now. Whether you 765 00:40:08,852 --> 00:40:10,532 Speaker 13: got an R or a D behind your name doesn't 766 00:40:10,572 --> 00:40:13,971 Speaker 13: mean anything to me. It's the type of person you are. 767 00:40:14,012 --> 00:40:16,732 Speaker 13: I could care less whether you're Republican or Democrat. 768 00:40:18,252 --> 00:40:22,032 Speaker 4: Robert Rice went back to his virtual reality work. Eventually, 769 00:40:22,192 --> 00:40:24,991 Speaker 4: according to someone who worked for Robert, the digital metaverse 770 00:40:25,032 --> 00:40:26,642 Speaker 4: he was trying to build ran out of money. 771 00:40:28,462 --> 00:40:30,322 Speaker 2: It's hard to tell what Tigers. 772 00:40:29,962 --> 00:40:34,432 Speaker 4: Won with all that infiltration and propaganda deserves credit for. 773 00:40:35,272 --> 00:40:38,412 Speaker 4: But what I do know is that after Standing Rock ended, 774 00:40:39,052 --> 00:40:42,852 Speaker 4: Energy Transfer kept directing money and messaging at communities in 775 00:40:42,892 --> 00:40:43,632 Speaker 4: Morton County. 776 00:40:44,491 --> 00:40:47,112 Speaker 2: There were ads on TV and YouTube. And there was 777 00:40:47,172 --> 00:40:47,651 Speaker 2: also the. 778 00:40:47,592 --> 00:40:52,232 Speaker 4: Mandan Library renovation the company funded. The vocational school Energy 779 00:40:52,252 --> 00:40:55,482 Speaker 4: Transfer co-founder Kelsey Warren helped build in the small city 780 00:40:55,502 --> 00:40:59,732 Speaker 4: of Flasher. $ 3 million for the University of Mary's new 781 00:40:59,832 --> 00:41:06,132 Speaker 4: engineering building. In 2025, the company's lawyers helped select jurors 782 00:41:06,252 --> 00:41:09,091 Speaker 4: to decide one of the most important free speech cases 783 00:41:09,221 --> 00:41:13,482 Speaker 4: in recent memory. The jury pool came from Morton County, 784 00:41:14,002 --> 00:41:16,502 Speaker 4: the same community Energy Transfer's. 785 00:41:16,122 --> 00:41:17,522 Speaker 2: Messaging had targeted. 786 00:41:18,522 --> 00:41:21,022 Speaker 4: In court, Energy Transfer told the jury that it was 787 00:41:21,161 --> 00:41:24,942 Speaker 4: Greenpeace that was responsible for the Standing Rock movement. And 788 00:41:24,962 --> 00:41:29,681 Speaker 4: the jurors agreed. And now, as wildfire smoke fills the skies, 789 00:41:29,942 --> 00:41:33,602 Speaker 4: one of the oldest environmental organizations in the U.S. is 790 00:41:33,701 --> 00:41:37,761 Speaker 4: fighting to overturn a judgment that could end them. Is 791 00:41:37,802 --> 00:41:38,862 Speaker 4: propaganda to blame? 792 00:41:39,322 --> 00:41:39,982 Speaker 2: I'm not sure. 793 00:41:40,002 --> 00:41:44,122 Speaker 4: I'll never be able to fully disentangle the organic feelings 794 00:41:44,181 --> 00:41:48,122 Speaker 4: of the community from the Facebook campaigns or the infiltration 795 00:41:48,241 --> 00:41:53,162 Speaker 4: efforts or the skill of energy transfers lawyers. What's certain 796 00:41:53,262 --> 00:41:56,472 Speaker 4: is that the truth remains fractured. And it seems like 797 00:41:56,642 --> 00:41:58,572 Speaker 4: that was the point all along. 798 00:42:04,132 --> 00:42:04,972 Speaker 2: A note to listeners. 799 00:42:05,372 --> 00:42:08,952 Speaker 4: The original conversation between Robert Rice and Joel McCullough happened 800 00:42:08,991 --> 00:42:13,051 Speaker 4: over WhatsApp. We edited for clarity and brevity. You can 801 00:42:13,072 --> 00:42:15,201 Speaker 4: find original documents in the show notes. 802 00:42:16,122 --> 00:42:21,162 Speaker 17: The Propagandist is an original drilled miniseries. It was reported, written, 803 00:42:21,221 --> 00:42:25,431 Speaker 17: and hosted by Aline Brown. and produced in collaboration with 804 00:42:25,552 --> 00:42:29,662 Speaker 17: High Country News. Special thanks there to Kate Schimmel and 805 00:42:29,802 --> 00:42:31,572 Speaker 17: Sunny Klautschisch-Chilegi. 806 00:42:32,241 --> 00:42:34,062 Speaker 2: Our editor is Audrey Quinn. 807 00:42:34,502 --> 00:42:39,042 Speaker 17: The actor playing Robert Rice in this miniseries is Joel Garland. 808 00:42:39,442 --> 00:42:43,821 Speaker 17: The actor playing Joel McCullough in this miniseries is David Raposo. 809 00:42:44,482 --> 00:42:49,221 Speaker 17: Senior producer and sound designer is Martin Zaltz-Ostwick. Our producer 810 00:42:49,362 --> 00:42:54,361 Speaker 17: is Sarah Ventry. Our audio engineer is Peter Duff. Fact-checking 811 00:42:54,442 --> 00:42:58,932 Speaker 17: by Naomi Barr. Music by Dear Lady. Additional music by 812 00:42:59,012 --> 00:43:03,812 Speaker 17: Martin Zaltz-Austwick. Matthew Fleming drew our cover art. The Center 813 00:43:03,852 --> 00:43:07,991 Speaker 17: for Media and Democracy provided support for document review. We 814 00:43:08,032 --> 00:43:11,991 Speaker 17: are proud members of ReporterShield who provided legal risk assessment 815 00:43:12,052 --> 00:43:16,051 Speaker 17: for this series. Our First Amendment attorney is James Wheaton 816 00:43:16,262 --> 00:43:19,701 Speaker 17: of the First Amendment Project. Drilled was created by me, 817 00:43:20,002 --> 00:43:24,682 Speaker 17: Amy Westervelt. the shows distributed by Pushkin Industries. Huge thanks 818 00:43:24,741 --> 00:43:28,482 Speaker 17: to the team there, including Greta Cohen, Eric Sandler, Grace Ross, 819 00:43:28,762 --> 00:43:34,221 Speaker 17: Morgan Ratner, Owen Miller, Kira Posey, Jordan McMillan, Brian Shreberneck, 820 00:43:34,462 --> 00:43:38,432 Speaker 17: and Jake Flanagan. You can find documents and related stories 821 00:43:38,471 --> 00:43:42,051 Speaker 17: to this series on our website at drilled.media, where you 822 00:43:42,092 --> 00:43:45,832 Speaker 17: can also sign up for our weekly newsletter. Thanks for listening, 823 00:43:45,931 --> 00:43:46,931 Speaker 17: and we'll see you next time.