1 00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:06,200 Speaker 1: Welcome to stuff Mom never told you From how Stuff 2 00:00:06,200 --> 00:00:14,120 Speaker 1: Works dot Com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm 3 00:00:14,200 --> 00:00:20,320 Speaker 1: Kristen and I'm Caroline. Caroline. Happy Valentine's Day? Whatever? I know? Right, 4 00:00:21,079 --> 00:00:25,439 Speaker 1: it's America's least favorite holiday. Welcome and yet our favorite one. 5 00:00:25,840 --> 00:00:30,800 Speaker 1: Somehow not to use to manipulate other people? Oh, you 6 00:00:30,840 --> 00:00:34,800 Speaker 1: mean our like a collective? Our like And by people 7 00:00:34,880 --> 00:00:40,880 Speaker 1: you mean people you're dating. I don't want anything does. Yeah, 8 00:00:40,920 --> 00:00:43,760 Speaker 1: it's It's true. It is one of the most confusing 9 00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:47,400 Speaker 1: days of the year, I'd say. And um. I went 10 00:00:47,520 --> 00:00:51,599 Speaker 1: on to our Facebook page. If you're listening right now 11 00:00:51,640 --> 00:00:53,519 Speaker 1: and you haven't gone to our Facebook page to like us, 12 00:00:53,560 --> 00:00:56,320 Speaker 1: because it's Valentine's Day, you should do with be our 13 00:00:56,440 --> 00:01:02,480 Speaker 1: Valentine please. Um. I went on there to ask listeners, Hey, 14 00:01:02,560 --> 00:01:05,400 Speaker 1: do you want a Valentine's Day episode? Come on? Like? 15 00:01:05,480 --> 00:01:07,880 Speaker 1: This is sort of our wheelhouse. We talk about dating 16 00:01:07,959 --> 00:01:11,280 Speaker 1: and love and kissy stuff all the time. What would 17 00:01:11,319 --> 00:01:14,160 Speaker 1: you like to hear about? And half of the responses 18 00:01:14,200 --> 00:01:18,480 Speaker 1: were about how Valentine's is the worst, about how Valentine's 19 00:01:18,480 --> 00:01:24,120 Speaker 1: is a fake, consumer driven holiday, and I was like, y'all, y'all, y'all, 20 00:01:24,160 --> 00:01:28,720 Speaker 1: come on now, it's you know, it is what it is. 21 00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:32,000 Speaker 1: So I think that folks are gonna like this episode 22 00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:36,680 Speaker 1: though yeah, not particularly lovey dovey in a direct way, right, 23 00:01:37,160 --> 00:01:41,200 Speaker 1: But it's got a twist in it. And the twist 24 00:01:41,440 --> 00:01:44,400 Speaker 1: is that in so many of the topics that we 25 00:01:44,480 --> 00:01:47,280 Speaker 1: talk about, we we in things with like well and 26 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:49,960 Speaker 1: then we try to talk about you know, find information 27 00:01:50,080 --> 00:01:52,760 Speaker 1: on how this applied to the LGBT community, but you 28 00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:56,000 Speaker 1: know what, research had nothing to say about it. Guess what, 29 00:01:56,920 --> 00:02:01,640 Speaker 1: It's not the case this time. So let's get going. 30 00:02:02,480 --> 00:02:06,000 Speaker 1: Let's let's give our public display of affection to our 31 00:02:06,160 --> 00:02:10,040 Speaker 1: LGBT listeners. Let's do it unless I would make them uncomfortable, 32 00:02:10,040 --> 00:02:11,960 Speaker 1: in which case I'll just shake your hand, that's fine. 33 00:02:13,680 --> 00:02:16,040 Speaker 1: Or maybe you'll give them a kiss on the cheek. Kristen, Yes, 34 00:02:16,040 --> 00:02:19,360 Speaker 1: a public social kiss. Is there anything more confusing? It 35 00:02:19,480 --> 00:02:21,800 Speaker 1: is very confusing. No. I walked U. I walked my 36 00:02:21,840 --> 00:02:24,840 Speaker 1: parents elderly neighbor home not too long ago, and I 37 00:02:24,880 --> 00:02:27,520 Speaker 1: went for the hug and she went for the cheek kiss. 38 00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:29,840 Speaker 1: And then she confused me further by going for the 39 00:02:29,880 --> 00:02:32,200 Speaker 1: double cheek kiss, to the point where I said, can 40 00:02:32,240 --> 00:02:35,639 Speaker 1: we do that? Again again you wanted to repeat, well, yeah, 41 00:02:35,639 --> 00:02:38,200 Speaker 1: she's this adorable Greek lady. And I was like, come on, 42 00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:39,600 Speaker 1: I've never since I was a baby. I was like, 43 00:02:39,600 --> 00:02:41,919 Speaker 1: can we just can we fix this? She's like, you know, daughter, 44 00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:46,320 Speaker 1: like we always do it on post cheeks. Oh and 45 00:02:46,360 --> 00:02:48,360 Speaker 1: then it was fine. So now that have you taken 46 00:02:48,440 --> 00:02:51,880 Speaker 1: up Greek double cheek kissing? Absolutely, not that you don't 47 00:02:51,880 --> 00:02:56,440 Speaker 1: know what is on people's faces. Oh man, that's what 48 00:02:57,240 --> 00:02:59,839 Speaker 1: I was. I was worth thinking about the awkwardness. Well, yeah, 49 00:02:59,840 --> 00:03:01,920 Speaker 1: that's actually my germ fobia is just to cover from 50 00:03:01,919 --> 00:03:06,120 Speaker 1: my fear of awkward situations. Um. Yes, there was a 51 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:09,720 Speaker 1: recent article in the New York Times about the confusing 52 00:03:09,760 --> 00:03:13,840 Speaker 1: situation of the public social kiss, which has become I 53 00:03:13,880 --> 00:03:17,320 Speaker 1: feel like this is kind of fueled by reality television, 54 00:03:17,480 --> 00:03:21,520 Speaker 1: especially the Real Housewives franchise, because they're always, you know, 55 00:03:21,560 --> 00:03:23,519 Speaker 1: doing the kiss kiss when they greet each other. And 56 00:03:23,600 --> 00:03:25,760 Speaker 1: I feel like it's kind of like it's not something 57 00:03:25,760 --> 00:03:28,799 Speaker 1: that I encounter. But maybe it's because I'm not fancy 58 00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:31,920 Speaker 1: enough in my day today. Um So it's not that 59 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:36,320 Speaker 1: common in American culture to do the social kiss. Uh, 60 00:03:36,360 --> 00:03:39,880 Speaker 1: it's more of a European thing. But I think it 61 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:43,560 Speaker 1: is becoming a little bit more common. Yeah, but there 62 00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:48,120 Speaker 1: are they're actually rules apparently that govern the public social kiss, 63 00:03:48,720 --> 00:03:52,360 Speaker 1: which I wish there were rules for actual p d 64 00:03:52,440 --> 00:03:54,840 Speaker 1: A because I don't consider the social kiss p d 65 00:03:54,960 --> 00:03:57,240 Speaker 1: A or gross. It's just awkward. It's just like, why 66 00:03:57,240 --> 00:03:59,840 Speaker 1: are you kissing my face? I don't know you? Well 67 00:04:00,160 --> 00:04:02,640 Speaker 1: can it can be awkward? Um? This is This article 68 00:04:02,680 --> 00:04:05,240 Speaker 1: was written by Henry Alford, who was the author of 69 00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:09,960 Speaker 1: a modern manners book and Um. He talked to a 70 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:14,280 Speaker 1: British etiquette consultant, William Hanson, who like points to the 71 00:04:14,320 --> 00:04:17,320 Speaker 1: celebrity culture and sort of the false intimacy and the 72 00:04:17,400 --> 00:04:20,920 Speaker 1: kiss kiss that now confuses the social kiss. And he 73 00:04:20,960 --> 00:04:24,440 Speaker 1: says that the proper procedure for a social kiss, if 74 00:04:24,440 --> 00:04:27,440 Speaker 1: it's a guy and a gal, is that the woman 75 00:04:27,720 --> 00:04:30,360 Speaker 1: sets the terms. If she wants her cheek, she proffers 76 00:04:30,400 --> 00:04:33,760 Speaker 1: her cheek, If not, she proffers her hand. I'm going 77 00:04:33,800 --> 00:04:37,200 Speaker 1: to start like proffering my hand for for hand kisses, 78 00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:39,719 Speaker 1: wear a giant cocktail ring so that people are forced 79 00:04:39,760 --> 00:04:41,880 Speaker 1: to kiss it over the pope or something, or like 80 00:04:41,920 --> 00:04:45,120 Speaker 1: a ring pop perfect. But you don't well, you don't 81 00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:48,040 Speaker 1: Wan anybody to linger. Yeah, and then he says that 82 00:04:48,160 --> 00:04:51,240 Speaker 1: if it's a woman woman woman interaction, I just said 83 00:04:51,279 --> 00:04:54,520 Speaker 1: woman three times, but I mean two women, the senior 84 00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:59,200 Speaker 1: woman sets the terms. So in my case, the the elderly, 85 00:04:59,279 --> 00:05:02,640 Speaker 1: adorable equal woman was going in for the double cheek 86 00:05:02,720 --> 00:05:05,599 Speaker 1: kiss and I was lost as an ignorant American. But 87 00:05:05,640 --> 00:05:08,320 Speaker 1: what if you're really close in age? See that's why 88 00:05:08,360 --> 00:05:10,240 Speaker 1: I'm just saying like, it's just because then it's an 89 00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:12,400 Speaker 1: insult because if you wait, you're you're insinuating that you 90 00:05:12,440 --> 00:05:18,440 Speaker 1: think they're older. Yeah, oh man, that gets confusing. Um. 91 00:05:18,480 --> 00:05:20,880 Speaker 1: But but the funny thing is when um, I think 92 00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:24,039 Speaker 1: it was William Hanson that the British etiquett consultant was 93 00:05:24,080 --> 00:05:28,360 Speaker 1: saying that the like frontal hugs that Americans might think 94 00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:33,040 Speaker 1: are way less uncomfortable than social kissing actually quite the opposite, 95 00:05:33,040 --> 00:05:37,360 Speaker 1: because that is full on body contact and it signals 96 00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:41,120 Speaker 1: even more intimacy. I mean, I don't like hugging strangers either. 97 00:05:41,560 --> 00:05:44,640 Speaker 1: What happened to a handshake? People? Or do the Obama 98 00:05:44,680 --> 00:05:48,040 Speaker 1: fist bump or an elbow bump? Yeah, anyway, we should 99 00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:51,720 Speaker 1: write an etiquette book. Um. So yeah, like you said, though, 100 00:05:51,760 --> 00:05:54,520 Speaker 1: Caroline the public social kiss not so much of a 101 00:05:54,600 --> 00:05:57,320 Speaker 1: p d A as in in the way that we 102 00:05:57,320 --> 00:06:00,440 Speaker 1: would think of it, especially roamed Valentine's Day. Right, we're 103 00:06:00,440 --> 00:06:03,520 Speaker 1: talking about like with p d A in terms of smooching, 104 00:06:04,160 --> 00:06:08,120 Speaker 1: smooching your honey bun in public. I can't take it. 105 00:06:08,440 --> 00:06:10,080 Speaker 1: I hate pd I don't want to be a part 106 00:06:10,120 --> 00:06:11,880 Speaker 1: of the p d A beyond like hand holding. But 107 00:06:11,920 --> 00:06:13,479 Speaker 1: I also don't want to watch the p d A. 108 00:06:13,640 --> 00:06:15,320 Speaker 1: I was at a restaurant the other night and this 109 00:06:15,440 --> 00:06:17,320 Speaker 1: couple next to my friend and me, we're just like 110 00:06:17,560 --> 00:06:23,160 Speaker 1: all over each other. If let's say you have a 111 00:06:23,200 --> 00:06:27,200 Speaker 1: gentleman friend, You're very friendly, you like him, you love him. 112 00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:31,120 Speaker 1: He wants to kiss you fully on the mouth in public. 113 00:06:31,960 --> 00:06:37,000 Speaker 1: Do you what do you do? Uh? Peck? That would 114 00:06:37,040 --> 00:06:39,919 Speaker 1: be a a push push You put your hand on 115 00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:42,000 Speaker 1: his chest and then I throw a drink in his face. 116 00:06:43,640 --> 00:06:47,640 Speaker 1: You called him a cad and stalk away. Um, well, 117 00:06:48,520 --> 00:06:51,640 Speaker 1: you mentioned girling going to the restaurant and being picked 118 00:06:51,680 --> 00:06:55,359 Speaker 1: out by the kissy face. I gotta stop saying kissy 119 00:06:55,440 --> 00:07:00,960 Speaker 1: face by the amorous couple. Well a B T A 120 00:07:01,040 --> 00:07:05,080 Speaker 1: B T Well, ABC Prime Time decided to kind of 121 00:07:05,080 --> 00:07:07,880 Speaker 1: do that in Mass in two thousand six, they hired 122 00:07:07,920 --> 00:07:11,600 Speaker 1: some actors to go and go around two restaurants and 123 00:07:11,760 --> 00:07:15,760 Speaker 1: pretend to be super affectionate couples be making out all 124 00:07:15,960 --> 00:07:18,640 Speaker 1: over each other. And the funny thing was a lot 125 00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:22,320 Speaker 1: of people were kind of fine with it. Yeah, if 126 00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:25,600 Speaker 1: they talked about some older couples who were in the restaurant, 127 00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:30,000 Speaker 1: you know who thought like, oh sweet young love and uh. 128 00:07:30,240 --> 00:07:33,720 Speaker 1: Carrie Keating, who's a psychology professor at Colgate University, actually 129 00:07:33,760 --> 00:07:36,840 Speaker 1: says she defends p t A too to a point. 130 00:07:37,640 --> 00:07:40,240 Speaker 1: She says that it sometimes can have a positive effect 131 00:07:40,840 --> 00:07:44,120 Speaker 1: on the observers. Have you ever been watching a movie, Kristen, 132 00:07:44,600 --> 00:07:47,680 Speaker 1: and that you've never watched a movie? You've never Okay, well, 133 00:07:47,760 --> 00:07:50,080 Speaker 1: hopefully our listeners will will know what I'm talking about. 134 00:07:50,320 --> 00:07:52,040 Speaker 1: Have you ever been watching a movie and the two 135 00:07:52,040 --> 00:07:54,400 Speaker 1: people on screen kiss and you find yourself making the 136 00:07:54,480 --> 00:07:58,880 Speaker 1: kissy face two at the same time? Okay, weird? Maybe 137 00:07:59,120 --> 00:08:04,160 Speaker 1: I mean neither of I over um anyway, So Keating says, 138 00:08:04,280 --> 00:08:07,400 Speaker 1: the very motor behavior, the tiny muscles of the face, 139 00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:11,160 Speaker 1: the smiles, the gaze are often mimicked by observers, and 140 00:08:11,160 --> 00:08:14,160 Speaker 1: that mimicry actually feeds back to the brain of the 141 00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:16,680 Speaker 1: observer and gives you that sort of warm and fuzzy 142 00:08:16,760 --> 00:08:20,080 Speaker 1: feeling inside. I think she's giving p d A a 143 00:08:20,160 --> 00:08:23,520 Speaker 1: lot more credit than it deserves. But I think that 144 00:08:24,360 --> 00:08:27,320 Speaker 1: to a point, like seeing um, unless you've just been 145 00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:29,520 Speaker 1: broken up with or you're you know, feeling bitter that day, 146 00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:32,600 Speaker 1: like seeing a young couple in love holding hands, could 147 00:08:32,600 --> 00:08:35,839 Speaker 1: actually make you feel slightly better. I'm the opposite. It's 148 00:08:35,840 --> 00:08:39,640 Speaker 1: not I'm I'm more prudish when it comes to seeing 149 00:08:40,120 --> 00:08:45,480 Speaker 1: younger couples. Older couples though, holding hands, um, you know, kissing. 150 00:08:45,520 --> 00:08:49,280 Speaker 1: I basically I just don't want to seek tongue, but 151 00:08:49,480 --> 00:08:53,559 Speaker 1: older couples that that warms my heart. But there, of course, 152 00:08:53,600 --> 00:08:56,360 Speaker 1: in this ABC experiment, there were some people who did 153 00:08:56,360 --> 00:08:59,360 Speaker 1: not take kindly to seeing all the p d A 154 00:08:59,400 --> 00:09:02,000 Speaker 1: and tried to enter van And Keating goes on to 155 00:09:02,120 --> 00:09:04,559 Speaker 1: Warren that you know it, don't try to stop p 156 00:09:04,679 --> 00:09:06,680 Speaker 1: d A if you see it happening, because you don't 157 00:09:06,679 --> 00:09:10,520 Speaker 1: know what the cultural norms are um And and this 158 00:09:10,559 --> 00:09:13,440 Speaker 1: comes up a lot. Maybe the litmus test if IF 159 00:09:13,880 --> 00:09:16,559 Speaker 1: is if kids are around, it's always about the children, 160 00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:20,199 Speaker 1: you know, if their children around, don't what about my retinas. 161 00:09:20,280 --> 00:09:23,720 Speaker 1: I want to protect my retina exactly. Um. But then again, 162 00:09:23,760 --> 00:09:25,360 Speaker 1: I mean you say that, you know. Keating goes on 163 00:09:25,400 --> 00:09:28,840 Speaker 1: to talk about how there's this physiological effect from witnessing PDA, 164 00:09:28,920 --> 00:09:30,560 Speaker 1: but then she also goes on to say that, well, 165 00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:34,840 Speaker 1: it canna listit a range of emotions, so it's a 166 00:09:34,880 --> 00:09:37,480 Speaker 1: pretty non specific answer. And I and I did dig 167 00:09:37,520 --> 00:09:40,760 Speaker 1: around for some studies seeing if if there were more 168 00:09:41,160 --> 00:09:44,760 Speaker 1: whether if there was more empirical data on the kind 169 00:09:44,840 --> 00:09:48,760 Speaker 1: of response that people have to pd. A not a 170 00:09:48,760 --> 00:09:51,200 Speaker 1: lot of stuff out there because even the researchers are 171 00:09:51,200 --> 00:09:56,320 Speaker 1: grossed out. Probably yeah. Um. But the thing is, though, 172 00:09:56,559 --> 00:09:59,840 Speaker 1: Keating does have a point though, saying that PDA elicits 173 00:09:59,880 --> 00:10:04,200 Speaker 1: a range of emotions, but unfortunately those range of emotions 174 00:10:04,240 --> 00:10:10,360 Speaker 1: can also be very negative, depending not just on the 175 00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:14,000 Speaker 1: type of media that's happening, but who is doing it. 176 00:10:14,080 --> 00:10:17,000 Speaker 1: And this was something that ABC again went back a 177 00:10:17,080 --> 00:10:21,480 Speaker 1: year later to test out when they had two gay 178 00:10:21,559 --> 00:10:25,200 Speaker 1: couples go out and get all frisky in public, and 179 00:10:25,240 --> 00:10:27,880 Speaker 1: they went to Birmingham, Alabama and Verona, New Jersey, because 180 00:10:27,880 --> 00:10:30,880 Speaker 1: they also wanted to see if there's a geographical difference. Yeah, 181 00:10:30,880 --> 00:10:32,960 Speaker 1: and in both places, I think for the most part, 182 00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:35,920 Speaker 1: the attitudes were I mean, there was a range of 183 00:10:35,960 --> 00:10:38,840 Speaker 1: attitudes about it, but they none of them were very strong. 184 00:10:39,160 --> 00:10:42,160 Speaker 1: I will say that, Um, a lot of people were concerned, 185 00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:44,559 Speaker 1: just like, how will I explain this to my children 186 00:10:44,559 --> 00:10:47,120 Speaker 1: when my small children asked, why are those two men kissing? 187 00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:50,480 Speaker 1: In Alabama? However, there was one instance where a woman 188 00:10:50,600 --> 00:10:53,480 Speaker 1: called nine one one when she saw two men kissing, 189 00:10:53,960 --> 00:10:56,640 Speaker 1: and the officer responding officers said, just don't do that 190 00:10:56,720 --> 00:11:01,960 Speaker 1: in public. Yeah, that's that's not okay. Um. But there 191 00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:07,120 Speaker 1: there was a difference though, in how people reacted to, uh, 192 00:11:07,160 --> 00:11:11,120 Speaker 1: the lesbian couple versus the gay mail couple, because like 193 00:11:11,240 --> 00:11:14,760 Speaker 1: the two women being affectionate to each other, people for 194 00:11:14,800 --> 00:11:19,560 Speaker 1: the most partably its sweet, but there was more negative 195 00:11:19,559 --> 00:11:26,440 Speaker 1: reaction directed at two men showing affection to each other. Right, yeah, 196 00:11:26,440 --> 00:11:30,080 Speaker 1: And an example I think of how people are not 197 00:11:30,520 --> 00:11:34,679 Speaker 1: in general super comfortable with two men expressing any affection 198 00:11:34,760 --> 00:11:37,600 Speaker 1: for each other. There was a Snicker Super Bowl commercial 199 00:11:37,640 --> 00:11:41,160 Speaker 1: several years ago. This was in two thousand seven, I believe, 200 00:11:42,120 --> 00:11:45,200 Speaker 1: where two mechanics they pulled a a lady in the 201 00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:47,240 Speaker 1: tramp with the with the spaghetti thing. But they were 202 00:11:47,240 --> 00:11:49,960 Speaker 1: eating a Snickers bar. Uh, so they're biting into the 203 00:11:49,960 --> 00:11:53,480 Speaker 1: same candy bar and then recoil when their lips meat 204 00:11:53,559 --> 00:11:56,400 Speaker 1: and start trying to act really masculine. And it got 205 00:11:56,440 --> 00:12:00,960 Speaker 1: a lot of activists angry, you know, they're like, why 206 00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:04,520 Speaker 1: are you why are you uh furthering this perception that 207 00:12:04,559 --> 00:12:09,520 Speaker 1: two men kissing is disgusting. Yeah, homophobia. That's a terrible 208 00:12:09,640 --> 00:12:12,800 Speaker 1: punch line. That's not funny at all. Actually, Uh. Because 209 00:12:12,880 --> 00:12:16,920 Speaker 1: of the protests in response to the ads were eventually pulled. 210 00:12:17,400 --> 00:12:20,880 Speaker 1: But it was, um a good example not and I 211 00:12:20,960 --> 00:12:25,400 Speaker 1: say good, I mean it was a depressing example of 212 00:12:25,679 --> 00:12:29,599 Speaker 1: how it's it's the type of homophobia that we don't 213 00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:33,120 Speaker 1: necessarily think about. Like when we first started doing, you know, 214 00:12:33,160 --> 00:12:37,400 Speaker 1: looking into stuff for podcasts on public displays of affection, 215 00:12:37,400 --> 00:12:39,440 Speaker 1: I just thought, we're going to find some psychological studies 216 00:12:39,480 --> 00:12:42,040 Speaker 1: how do you feel? And all of a sudden, this 217 00:12:42,040 --> 00:12:45,240 Speaker 1: whole LGBT angle of it opens up to where it's 218 00:12:45,240 --> 00:12:47,920 Speaker 1: a completely different side that you and I don't think about. 219 00:12:48,400 --> 00:12:51,760 Speaker 1: You know, we're two like straight women walking around, you know, 220 00:12:51,800 --> 00:12:54,800 Speaker 1: and if we we have the privilege of if we 221 00:12:54,880 --> 00:12:58,080 Speaker 1: want to, you know, kiss our dude or whatever, real 222 00:12:58,160 --> 00:13:01,160 Speaker 1: fast then no one's probably gonna bat a eyelash about it. 223 00:13:01,400 --> 00:13:06,240 Speaker 1: But it is much different we've learned, especially for men 224 00:13:06,520 --> 00:13:10,079 Speaker 1: who are in relationships with each other. Yeah. Christopher Records 225 00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:13,520 Speaker 1: over at Salon in July wrote a column about how 226 00:13:14,080 --> 00:13:16,439 Speaker 1: it's a tight rope act basically, and he talks about 227 00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:19,960 Speaker 1: the stress of having to check one's surroundings before even 228 00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:23,920 Speaker 1: holding hands. He calls it instinctive profiling basically that he 229 00:13:24,080 --> 00:13:26,080 Speaker 1: is he feels forced to do when he goes into 230 00:13:26,120 --> 00:13:28,720 Speaker 1: a public space. And he writes that like a lot 231 00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:31,160 Speaker 1: of same sex couples, we know where to touch and 232 00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:33,360 Speaker 1: where not to touch, as far as you know, going 233 00:13:33,400 --> 00:13:37,079 Speaker 1: into one bar or store or public place versus another. 234 00:13:37,880 --> 00:13:42,120 Speaker 1: And he writes that safety carries with it issues of race, age, gender, 235 00:13:42,160 --> 00:13:45,560 Speaker 1: and class. That he and his boyfriend feel safest to 236 00:13:45,880 --> 00:13:48,920 Speaker 1: quote freely act like a normal couple in places that 237 00:13:48,960 --> 00:13:52,520 Speaker 1: tend to be wider, younger, less male, more liberal, and 238 00:13:52,640 --> 00:13:56,160 Speaker 1: generally more gentrified than others. And like Kristen said, I 239 00:13:56,200 --> 00:13:58,839 Speaker 1: mean this is not necessarily like I don't like p 240 00:13:58,960 --> 00:14:02,160 Speaker 1: d A, but I've also don't always have to consider 241 00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:06,559 Speaker 1: where I am if I'm expressing affection. Yeah, there's typically 242 00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:11,520 Speaker 1: not a risk of violence or harassment if you express 243 00:14:12,040 --> 00:14:15,120 Speaker 1: p D A. UM. And this was something that I mean, 244 00:14:15,160 --> 00:14:18,520 Speaker 1: speaking as well to what Christopher Records in that Salon 245 00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:21,120 Speaker 1: article was talking about in terms of where and how 246 00:14:21,360 --> 00:14:25,200 Speaker 1: they feel safe. UM. Clarence Patton, who was a spokesperson 247 00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:28,920 Speaker 1: for New York City's Gain Lesbian Anti Violence Project, told 248 00:14:28,960 --> 00:14:31,520 Speaker 1: The New York Times in two thousand seven. This was 249 00:14:31,560 --> 00:14:35,600 Speaker 1: in response to that Snicker super Bowl commercial. He said that, um, 250 00:14:35,880 --> 00:14:38,880 Speaker 1: gay people aren't threatening if they quote play a very 251 00:14:38,920 --> 00:14:42,240 Speaker 1: tightly scripted and choreographed role in society, putting your wedding 252 00:14:42,240 --> 00:14:45,720 Speaker 1: together or what have you. It's then more once they 253 00:14:46,120 --> 00:14:48,600 Speaker 1: cross out of those things and actually begin, you know, 254 00:14:48,680 --> 00:14:51,040 Speaker 1: behave just like you and me, just like you know, 255 00:14:51,120 --> 00:14:56,000 Speaker 1: everyday couples on the street, that, um, the risk increases. Now. 256 00:14:56,080 --> 00:14:59,400 Speaker 1: That was in two thousand seven. UM. And hopefully, even 257 00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:01,840 Speaker 1: though it's only been you know, five six years, things 258 00:15:02,480 --> 00:15:06,160 Speaker 1: have gotten better. UM. Catherine M. Frank, who's a lesbian 259 00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:09,760 Speaker 1: Columbia University professor, also told The New York Times that 260 00:15:10,480 --> 00:15:14,240 Speaker 1: in the past five years she had observed things getting 261 00:15:14,280 --> 00:15:17,360 Speaker 1: better in terms of her girlfriend her actually getting smiles 262 00:15:17,800 --> 00:15:20,560 Speaker 1: from straight couples and uh, you know, gay allies wanting 263 00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:24,960 Speaker 1: to congratulate their love and rather than looking at askance 264 00:15:25,040 --> 00:15:28,160 Speaker 1: at them. And it's that whole you know, time marching 265 00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:31,440 Speaker 1: on people getting used to seeing things that they weren't 266 00:15:31,520 --> 00:15:34,960 Speaker 1: used to seeing before that. Jesse Burling talks about in 267 00:15:35,040 --> 00:15:38,280 Speaker 1: his piece for Scientific American in June two thousand nine. 268 00:15:38,320 --> 00:15:41,480 Speaker 1: He's a research psychologist, and he says that while the 269 00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:44,480 Speaker 1: issue of gay marriage is very important, the issue of 270 00:15:44,520 --> 00:15:48,280 Speaker 1: gay people feeling comfortable to express p d A is 271 00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:52,520 Speaker 1: so important also because it's not just like a social 272 00:15:52,560 --> 00:15:55,080 Speaker 1: attitude of like, oh no, it's I'm totally cool with 273 00:15:55,120 --> 00:15:58,240 Speaker 1: gay people kissing in public, because as we just mentioned, 274 00:15:58,240 --> 00:16:00,600 Speaker 1: you know, people are not necessarily as comfortable with that 275 00:16:00,640 --> 00:16:03,720 Speaker 1: as they say they are. Um, he's saying that it 276 00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:07,920 Speaker 1: is so important to change negative attitudes towards gay people, 277 00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:13,320 Speaker 1: and that begins with exposing people out in the world 278 00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:18,480 Speaker 1: to more regular same sex romantic behavior. Yeah, and bearing 279 00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:20,960 Speaker 1: is gay as well. And he started off that Scientific 280 00:16:20,960 --> 00:16:25,840 Speaker 1: American article talking about being abroad with his boyfriend and 281 00:16:25,920 --> 00:16:28,720 Speaker 1: kind of feeling, you know, negotiating the same the spaces 282 00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:32,080 Speaker 1: public spaces in the same way that Christopher Records was 283 00:16:32,120 --> 00:16:35,320 Speaker 1: talking about over at Salon of you know, testing the 284 00:16:35,320 --> 00:16:38,640 Speaker 1: waters of okay, is it is it? Are we getting stairs? 285 00:16:38,680 --> 00:16:41,000 Speaker 1: If I hold your hand, is it gonna be okay? 286 00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:43,920 Speaker 1: If I touch your leg? Just basic things like that, 287 00:16:44,040 --> 00:16:49,680 Speaker 1: and then he goes into talking about UM discussed sensitivity 288 00:16:49,720 --> 00:16:56,240 Speaker 1: and intuitive disapproval disapproval UM and basically kind of how 289 00:16:56,400 --> 00:16:59,320 Speaker 1: researchers have tried to figure out the ways that we 290 00:16:59,440 --> 00:17:06,560 Speaker 1: might be uh subconsciously repulsed by things. So this study 291 00:17:06,560 --> 00:17:08,960 Speaker 1: that we're talking about and that bearing mentions in his 292 00:17:09,080 --> 00:17:13,840 Speaker 1: article was sort of to to test people's attitudes toward 293 00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:16,919 Speaker 1: gay p d A. And the first part of the 294 00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:19,920 Speaker 1: study was based on previous research that people are more 295 00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:23,800 Speaker 1: likely to describe a behavior as intentional when they see 296 00:17:23,840 --> 00:17:27,280 Speaker 1: it as morally wrong, and that is known as the 297 00:17:27,840 --> 00:17:33,640 Speaker 1: Nobe effect that was named for Yale philosopher Joshua Nobe. Yeah, 298 00:17:33,760 --> 00:17:39,440 Speaker 1: And in that philosopher dudes explanation, UM, it was basically 299 00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:41,760 Speaker 1: the idea of Okay, so you have a CEO of 300 00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:46,200 Speaker 1: a company and the company slash CEO takes an action 301 00:17:46,280 --> 00:17:50,879 Speaker 1: that affects the environment, and basically people assumed that if 302 00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:53,919 Speaker 1: the action had the side effect of something positive for 303 00:17:53,960 --> 00:17:57,400 Speaker 1: the environment that it was unintentional. But if the action 304 00:17:57,520 --> 00:18:00,280 Speaker 1: that the company took had a negative effect on the environment, 305 00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:05,280 Speaker 1: people in the study interpreted that as intentional. So the negative, 306 00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:10,919 Speaker 1: the disgusting was viewed as intentional, the morally right, the positive, 307 00:18:11,040 --> 00:18:14,920 Speaker 1: the yea, you help the environment was viewed as unintentional. 308 00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:17,879 Speaker 1: So in this case with the Harvard study that was 309 00:18:17,920 --> 00:18:21,080 Speaker 1: published in two thousand nine, what they did to sort 310 00:18:21,080 --> 00:18:27,119 Speaker 1: of remodel that NOBE effect was create scenarios where a 311 00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:32,280 Speaker 1: director had created a music video whose side effect caused 312 00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:38,199 Speaker 1: gay men too french kiss publicly, or there was so 313 00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:40,240 Speaker 1: there was that scenery, and then there was one where 314 00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:43,439 Speaker 1: it just caused like, you know, anybody to start making 315 00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:48,440 Speaker 1: out right. And so they found that the more discussed 316 00:18:48,520 --> 00:18:52,640 Speaker 1: sensitive the participants were, according to this discussed sensitivity scale, 317 00:18:53,040 --> 00:18:55,440 Speaker 1: so the more discussed sensitive they were, the more likely 318 00:18:55,480 --> 00:18:58,800 Speaker 1: they were to say that the director whose music video 319 00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:01,000 Speaker 1: had the side effect of was in game into french 320 00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:06,240 Speaker 1: kiss intentionally encourage them to do that. Whereas if a 321 00:19:06,280 --> 00:19:09,200 Speaker 1: male female couple a man and a woman saw the 322 00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:11,440 Speaker 1: music video and kissed, that would be like, oh, well, 323 00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:13,520 Speaker 1: that's just an unintentional side effect of seeing a sexy 324 00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:17,399 Speaker 1: music video. Right, And what they inferred from all of 325 00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:21,440 Speaker 1: this was that there was an implicit association really based 326 00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:26,000 Speaker 1: on that that was mediated by their discuss sensitivity, and 327 00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:30,760 Speaker 1: that discussed sensitivity scale, for instance, judges you know, or 328 00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:35,560 Speaker 1: evaluates how gross all you are by things like rotting meat, corpses, 329 00:19:35,960 --> 00:19:41,160 Speaker 1: bodily fluids, etcetera. And um, those people who were more 330 00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:46,920 Speaker 1: discussed sensitive seemed to show more unfavorable automatic associations with 331 00:19:47,080 --> 00:19:50,399 Speaker 1: gay people as opposed to heterosexuals. And this might not 332 00:19:50,560 --> 00:19:54,080 Speaker 1: this wasn't outright homophobia, because these same people were saying, 333 00:19:54,600 --> 00:19:57,960 Speaker 1: you know, oh, no, I don't have anything, you know more, 334 00:19:58,040 --> 00:20:01,160 Speaker 1: I don't see a problem with gay couples making out. 335 00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:04,720 Speaker 1: But then when you start to test those implicit associations, 336 00:20:05,119 --> 00:20:09,119 Speaker 1: things do change a little bit. But the good news 337 00:20:09,160 --> 00:20:11,919 Speaker 1: that Bearing points out in that Scientific American article is 338 00:20:11,960 --> 00:20:19,640 Speaker 1: that you can still change those implicit associations through exposure. Right. 339 00:20:19,680 --> 00:20:22,640 Speaker 1: And Hugo Schweiser, who's an author and gender studies professor, 340 00:20:23,040 --> 00:20:25,840 Speaker 1: takes us a step further in his column on the 341 00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:29,879 Speaker 1: topic about p d A. He says that he was 342 00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:33,240 Speaker 1: telling his students that there is a total political side 343 00:20:33,320 --> 00:20:36,239 Speaker 1: to sexual behavior instead of just like you gross as 344 00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:37,920 Speaker 1: people are making out or oh it isn't that cute? 345 00:20:37,920 --> 00:20:41,639 Speaker 1: Those people are making out the idea of upsetting people 346 00:20:42,280 --> 00:20:44,600 Speaker 1: to to put something in their face so that they 347 00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:47,400 Speaker 1: eventually get used to it. He says. Sometimes, I argued 348 00:20:47,760 --> 00:20:51,560 Speaker 1: offending others is desirable and necessary because the prejudices that 349 00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:56,160 Speaker 1: undergird the sense of being offended need to be uprooted. Yeah, 350 00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:58,240 Speaker 1: I mean think about it, and it makes complete and 351 00:20:58,280 --> 00:21:00,960 Speaker 1: total sense. Like you do, you do need exposure to 352 00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:04,360 Speaker 1: things sometimes to break down those prejudices. I mean, think 353 00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:07,000 Speaker 1: about just like the first thing that pops into my 354 00:21:07,040 --> 00:21:10,480 Speaker 1: mind is racial desegregation. You know when we talked about 355 00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:14,240 Speaker 1: the Arkansas nine, like going into the school to desegregate. 356 00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:16,920 Speaker 1: You have to have exposure at some point to start 357 00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:21,080 Speaker 1: breaking down those barriers. Yeah, because even if you don't 358 00:21:21,080 --> 00:21:23,800 Speaker 1: think something is outright gross, I mean, you still might 359 00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:26,560 Speaker 1: not be used to it. So the more that people 360 00:21:26,600 --> 00:21:29,359 Speaker 1: are exposed to something, the more they are used to 361 00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:32,760 Speaker 1: it and don't think it's absurd. Right. And speaking of 362 00:21:33,119 --> 00:21:35,520 Speaker 1: race is actually does tie in pretty well to pd 363 00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:39,639 Speaker 1: A because it's not just the LGBT community that has 364 00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:41,919 Speaker 1: to sometimes walk more of a tight rope when it 365 00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:45,320 Speaker 1: comes to p A UM into a racial couple, Studies 366 00:21:45,359 --> 00:21:49,639 Speaker 1: have shown are also less likely to show p d 367 00:21:49,760 --> 00:21:54,440 Speaker 1: A in public. Is that redundant? Show PDA in public too? Well? 368 00:21:54,440 --> 00:21:56,040 Speaker 1: I mean, I guess you could have pd A in 369 00:21:56,119 --> 00:22:00,520 Speaker 1: your house in front of a large wind at a party. Yeah. Um. 370 00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:03,560 Speaker 1: Hugo Schweizer also chimes in on this one. Um. He 371 00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:06,879 Speaker 1: says that hate often hides behind propriety. So people who 372 00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:09,399 Speaker 1: are arguing like, well, no, it doesn't bother me that 373 00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:12,280 Speaker 1: a white man and a black woman are married or dating. No, 374 00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:14,120 Speaker 1: that doesn't bother me. It's just p d A grosses 375 00:22:14,119 --> 00:22:16,960 Speaker 1: me out. Well, so that's kind of what he builds 376 00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:19,200 Speaker 1: off of when he's talking about an experience he had 377 00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:21,920 Speaker 1: with his first wife, who was Asian American, and they're 378 00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:26,720 Speaker 1: walking through Chinatown with each other and holding hands, getting 379 00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:29,960 Speaker 1: a lot of basically angry stairs. He drops her hand 380 00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:33,360 Speaker 1: and she asked him angrily why he did that, and 381 00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:36,000 Speaker 1: she says, they need to be offended. We aren't doing 382 00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:40,480 Speaker 1: anything the same race couple wouldn't do. And so he 383 00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:43,560 Speaker 1: says that part of me being a discerning adult is 384 00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:45,800 Speaker 1: doing what Alyssa asked me to do. Nearly twenty five 385 00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:49,639 Speaker 1: years ago distinguished between a generalized discomfort with p d 386 00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:54,040 Speaker 1: A and a far uglier hostility towards affection that violates 387 00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:59,240 Speaker 1: racial or gender norms. One is worth respecting, the other isn't, right, 388 00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:02,600 Speaker 1: I mean, and sad fact is there as reflected again, 389 00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:04,440 Speaker 1: I know, I keep going back to it in that 390 00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:08,760 Speaker 1: Salon essay that there there is still a risk of 391 00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:14,040 Speaker 1: violence for people. Um, but I guess the only thing 392 00:23:14,119 --> 00:23:16,600 Speaker 1: that we can hope because you know, at first PDA 393 00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:20,159 Speaker 1: might seem like such such a frilly, fluffy little topic, 394 00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:23,159 Speaker 1: but it is. It gets to the heart of so 395 00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:25,000 Speaker 1: many things of what we are comfortable with and what 396 00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:28,399 Speaker 1: we aren't, and you know, questions of why on earth 397 00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:32,120 Speaker 1: is that? What kind of prejudice is still out there? 398 00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:35,080 Speaker 1: Just in terms of you know, doing like a flinch 399 00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:37,280 Speaker 1: test of of seeing something that you know, if it 400 00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:40,360 Speaker 1: bothers you, why does it bother you so much? Yeah, 401 00:23:40,359 --> 00:23:43,159 Speaker 1: it might not be so much the problem of the 402 00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:46,600 Speaker 1: people who are expressing affection. It might be more year problem. 403 00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:50,240 Speaker 1: Although honestly, seriously, the couple who was making out next 404 00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:52,920 Speaker 1: to me in the restaurant, come on, what do you well, 405 00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:54,960 Speaker 1: let's take a moment, Caroline, what do you think it 406 00:23:55,280 --> 00:24:00,560 Speaker 1: was that was so close to me? Oh? So proximity 407 00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:03,080 Speaker 1: was I think it was more proximity and I couldn't. Like, 408 00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:05,520 Speaker 1: It's one thing if you're kissing your significant other and 409 00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:08,639 Speaker 1: I can turn away and not watch you suck their face, 410 00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:12,560 Speaker 1: but I they were so close to us. Yeah, yeah, 411 00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:15,040 Speaker 1: I think that the proximity thing makes a lot of sense. 412 00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:18,320 Speaker 1: And the guy's legs were really long and the girl 413 00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:20,320 Speaker 1: was really tiny, and so he had his legs like 414 00:24:20,359 --> 00:24:23,600 Speaker 1: on either side. Well, there are I do think there 415 00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:28,119 Speaker 1: are some. There are some basic pd A guidelines, you know. 416 00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:32,800 Speaker 1: There This comes up in a lot of etiquette discourse. 417 00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:37,200 Speaker 1: You know, Judith miss Manners Martin, for instance, would say 418 00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:40,040 Speaker 1: that being overly affection is just childish and silly and 419 00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:43,880 Speaker 1: not very considerate of others, to which I say, he's 420 00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:48,200 Speaker 1: of miss Manners and and that's mismanners to you. I'm 421 00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:51,800 Speaker 1: at it. Yeah, I mean there there are degrees. There 422 00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:54,159 Speaker 1: are degrees. She says that, you know, p d A 423 00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:57,679 Speaker 1: is okay in a greeting or as part of a celebration, 424 00:24:57,760 --> 00:25:00,440 Speaker 1: but it's not okay, And I agree with her, it's 425 00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:02,280 Speaker 1: not okay when people are in a stage of love. 426 00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:05,080 Speaker 1: Making I'm sorry, call me a prude. Christine Conger, do it? 427 00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:08,200 Speaker 1: I dare you groping? Yeah? Grow, I feel like my 428 00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:11,199 Speaker 1: my line starts to come with groping, you know, but 429 00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:13,439 Speaker 1: there is that thing. I think maybe p d A 430 00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:16,760 Speaker 1: is so frustrating because there is that I can't look 431 00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:20,520 Speaker 1: away factor. You know, you want to look away. You 432 00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:25,920 Speaker 1: can't look away, and it's not because you are enjoying it, 433 00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:29,880 Speaker 1: but just because it's it is there, and it is 434 00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:37,000 Speaker 1: somewhat shocking to our lingering Victorian era sensibility. If there's 435 00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:40,920 Speaker 1: one thing that people have called me, it's a Victorian prude. Well, 436 00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:44,080 Speaker 1: de roommate, my my dew roommate has one piece of 437 00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:47,639 Speaker 1: advice for people who are really put off by over 438 00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:51,840 Speaker 1: the top p DA go home. He says that you 439 00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:55,399 Speaker 1: should just stare at them really hard until they finally 440 00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:57,000 Speaker 1: notice you. And he goes, no, no no, no, just keep going. 441 00:25:57,040 --> 00:26:00,240 Speaker 1: It's fine, I'm just watching, and that will discourage people 442 00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:04,719 Speaker 1: expressing pd A. I just got creeped out, dude, roommate. Everyone, 443 00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:09,520 Speaker 1: Uh well, how about one one final finding. This is 444 00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:12,200 Speaker 1: sort of an outlier from our research. This was actually 445 00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:17,240 Speaker 1: one of the only studies correlation causation, I will say, 446 00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:20,480 Speaker 1: but one of the only studies we could find on 447 00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:23,840 Speaker 1: on possible backgrounds for people's level of comfort, which is 448 00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:26,520 Speaker 1: generalized p d A. And this is coming from the 449 00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:29,560 Speaker 1: Journal of Divorce and Remarriage published in two thousand and ten, 450 00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:35,800 Speaker 1: and it linked parental divorce with feelings of discomfort with 451 00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:39,760 Speaker 1: witnessing pd A. Yeah, I mean, I wonder, I wonder 452 00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:42,679 Speaker 1: how accurate that is. But they did a study and 453 00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:47,280 Speaker 1: they found that there was a definite change in cardiac activity. 454 00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:51,480 Speaker 1: Women from divorced homes reported more discomfort than women from 455 00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:53,720 Speaker 1: intact homes with pd A, but they also had to 456 00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:58,800 Speaker 1: hire cardiac response to it. So I'm is that so 457 00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:00,879 Speaker 1: much the divorce or I mean, there's so many other 458 00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:03,080 Speaker 1: things you could take into because I mean, my parents 459 00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:07,679 Speaker 1: are still married. Yeah, I mean, you know where I 460 00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:10,080 Speaker 1: stand on this. I couldn't have anything to do with 461 00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:11,840 Speaker 1: my mother, who when I called her earlier and she 462 00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:14,360 Speaker 1: was on pain pills from a minor medical procedure she had, 463 00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:16,920 Speaker 1: was like, you should have me well on your video 464 00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:20,760 Speaker 1: to talk about p d A because that's gross. So 465 00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:23,040 Speaker 1: I don't know, maybe it's generational. I don't know. Maybe 466 00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:27,639 Speaker 1: she passed it down to me. Gross, maybe you should 467 00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:30,560 Speaker 1: take over for Judith Martin for the mis manners. I 468 00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:34,800 Speaker 1: don't know if my mom has enough manners. Um, well, 469 00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:38,119 Speaker 1: I think I think that about covers it with p 470 00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:40,879 Speaker 1: d A. Do you I mean, I've done all this complaining. 471 00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:44,239 Speaker 1: Where do I care? Yeah? Um, if you bring up 472 00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:46,360 Speaker 1: a good point about proximity, I don't. I don't want 473 00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:49,959 Speaker 1: to be able to hear any any mouth sounds. I 474 00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:54,040 Speaker 1: don't love saying it, you know. I I was actually 475 00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:57,240 Speaker 1: out at a bar a couple of weeks ago, and 476 00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:01,840 Speaker 1: on the opposite side of the patio there was a 477 00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:05,200 Speaker 1: couple just just really getting to know each other very well, 478 00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:09,880 Speaker 1: and my my friends and I like pointed and kind 479 00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:13,280 Speaker 1: of laughed. Um, And then I went because I got 480 00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:15,439 Speaker 1: turning around and it was you know, I don't like 481 00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:17,680 Speaker 1: to do it. And I mean sometimes though, like I 482 00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:23,720 Speaker 1: I can't. I can't be horrified by it because I 483 00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:28,040 Speaker 1: do engage sometimes. Sure not, I try. I hope, I 484 00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:33,080 Speaker 1: hope not to h an uncomfortable extent, but pretty last 485 00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:35,560 Speaker 1: last night, keeping in mind that I was going to 486 00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:38,760 Speaker 1: come record this episode, I tried not to be too 487 00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:43,000 Speaker 1: judgmental because it wasn't it was the pd A. That's 488 00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:46,240 Speaker 1: not outside issue. They were. I got into my car 489 00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:48,840 Speaker 1: after leaving the grocery store and there was a couple, 490 00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:52,120 Speaker 1: I mean her seat, her seat was reclined, and she 491 00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:55,719 Speaker 1: was yeah. I was no, no, I'm saying no, I'm no, no, 492 00:28:55,760 --> 00:29:00,600 Speaker 1: I'm defending the couple. Yeah, technically, I mean I tried 493 00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:03,400 Speaker 1: not to be judgmental, remembering what we were going to 494 00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:07,600 Speaker 1: talk about today. Well, that's good, Caroline, you you know, 495 00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:12,080 Speaker 1: that's that's good. I grimmaced to myself and then put 496 00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:14,360 Speaker 1: it out of my mind, just turned that NPR up 497 00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:17,280 Speaker 1: and kept driving. My stereo is broken. But yeah, so 498 00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:21,280 Speaker 1: to speak, Well, um, I hope we get lots of 499 00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:24,360 Speaker 1: stories about p d A. P p d A, Y 500 00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:26,640 Speaker 1: or nay? Is it okay to p d A, as 501 00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:29,320 Speaker 1: the title of this episode asks, because I do want 502 00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:32,800 Speaker 1: to hear from listeners out there, because I feel like 503 00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:36,520 Speaker 1: it's one of those there. There's no like middling ground 504 00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:38,760 Speaker 1: when it comes to p d A. That's what's so 505 00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:43,360 Speaker 1: fascinating about. You either hate it or you are doing 506 00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:47,920 Speaker 1: stuff in your car next to Caroline, come next to 507 00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:53,680 Speaker 1: me in traffic, traffic, uh, so send us your thoughts. Uh. 508 00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:57,400 Speaker 1: And the happy Valentine's Day. Even you probably hate Valentine's Day. 509 00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:00,440 Speaker 1: You know, there's a fifty chance, but either way, I 510 00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:04,640 Speaker 1: hope you have a good a good February fourteen, for sure, 511 00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:08,720 Speaker 1: you know, so email us mom stuff at Discovery dot 512 00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:15,720 Speaker 1: com And here's one from Keiley. She says, I really 513 00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:18,240 Speaker 1: enjoyed your interview with Emily Matcher, and I planned to 514 00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:21,320 Speaker 1: read her book, Emily Matcher. F y I that's the 515 00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:25,440 Speaker 1: new domistic steep blogger that we interviewed. Keili goes on 516 00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:27,440 Speaker 1: to say, I'm a thirty one year old female pH 517 00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:30,360 Speaker 1: d student in the biological sciences, and I definitely find 518 00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:32,520 Speaker 1: myself drawn to some of the activities that you talked 519 00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:36,440 Speaker 1: about with Emily, knitting, sewing, gardening, cooking things from scratch. 520 00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:38,520 Speaker 1: I think for me, part of it is that my 521 00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:40,920 Speaker 1: research is relatively long term in nature, and it can 522 00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:43,560 Speaker 1: be very frustrating and disheartening when something I have poured 523 00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:47,000 Speaker 1: days or weeks into simply doesn't work. On the other hand, 524 00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:49,960 Speaker 1: if I decided to make muffins, forty minutes later, I 525 00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:52,800 Speaker 1: have muffins, and usually they are at least edible and 526 00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:56,360 Speaker 1: sometimes quite delicious. It's a quick return on investment. I 527 00:30:56,400 --> 00:30:59,160 Speaker 1: also wonder about the role of the economic downturn in 528 00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:02,160 Speaker 1: this phenomenon. Some of these activities really are ways of 529 00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:04,880 Speaker 1: being frugal, i e. Making a gourmy meal instead of 530 00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:07,360 Speaker 1: eating at a really nice restaurant. I think in general, 531 00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:10,000 Speaker 1: my peer group is trying to temper the consumerism that 532 00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:12,080 Speaker 1: we grew up with and not be terrible to the 533 00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:14,840 Speaker 1: environment and make things of high quality that will last 534 00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:18,120 Speaker 1: for a long time. Those, I think are some of 535 00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:22,320 Speaker 1: my motivations. So thank you Keiley. And I've got one 536 00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:25,680 Speaker 1: here from Wendy and it's in response to our episode 537 00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:28,760 Speaker 1: on fitness fads, but it has more to do with 538 00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:32,680 Speaker 1: electrical muscle stimulation that we touched on in that episode. 539 00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:34,880 Speaker 1: So she talks about when she was a kid in 540 00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:38,680 Speaker 1: the eighties, she use electrical muscle stimulation during physical therapy 541 00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:41,160 Speaker 1: because she broke her left leg in several places and 542 00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:44,280 Speaker 1: couldn't walk for almost a year. So here's what happened. 543 00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:47,120 Speaker 1: My physical therapy was basically learning to walk again. At 544 00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:50,040 Speaker 1: the end of all my workouts, the physical therapist would 545 00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:53,000 Speaker 1: mistakenly leave me, a sixth grader, on the table with 546 00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:55,600 Speaker 1: the E M S knobs within reach. I would turn 547 00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:58,280 Speaker 1: the electrical current as high as I could. Once they 548 00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:01,200 Speaker 1: walked away, I would lay back down and watch is 549 00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:03,320 Speaker 1: my leg jumped up and down on the table, to 550 00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:06,800 Speaker 1: the horror of the others on tables and the staff. 551 00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:09,320 Speaker 1: I couldn't feel the current, but it was so much 552 00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:11,920 Speaker 1: fun to watch my leg bounce. I loved it. When 553 00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:14,440 Speaker 1: others freaked out. They had to tell me every single 554 00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:17,440 Speaker 1: time to stop, and they also told my mom. The 555 00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:20,160 Speaker 1: stuff eventually stopped leaving me alone during this part of 556 00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:22,520 Speaker 1: the therapy, because let's be honest, would you leave a 557 00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:25,240 Speaker 1: sixth grader alone with machine like that. I'm happy to 558 00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:27,600 Speaker 1: say all the therapy worked and I can walk without 559 00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:30,360 Speaker 1: any sign of injury, which is a small miracle since 560 00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:32,800 Speaker 1: my leg broken about seven spots, although it's hard to 561 00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:35,440 Speaker 1: tell how many hairline brakes were sustained around my knee joints. 562 00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:37,480 Speaker 1: It took me about ten years to get back on 563 00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:41,800 Speaker 1: a road bike, but I'm glad I did. And thank 564 00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:45,640 Speaker 1: you Wendy for that very bizarre image of us child 565 00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:50,200 Speaker 1: with a crazy leg. Uh well, you know, being electrically stimulated, 566 00:32:50,360 --> 00:32:53,480 Speaker 1: not broken. That would just be sad anyway. So if 567 00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:55,840 Speaker 1: you have a letter to write us mom Stuff at 568 00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:58,720 Speaker 1: Discovery dot com is where you can send it. And 569 00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:00,400 Speaker 1: if you would like to give us about on Time's 570 00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:02,520 Speaker 1: Day present, it would be going on to Facebook right 571 00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:04,920 Speaker 1: now and liking us and following us on Twitter at 572 00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:08,480 Speaker 1: mom Stuff podcast, and following us on tumbler Stuff I've 573 00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:12,880 Speaker 1: Never Told You dot tumblr dot com. And if you 574 00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:15,280 Speaker 1: are not feeling so lovey douby and you want to 575 00:33:15,280 --> 00:33:18,320 Speaker 1: know how breakups work, you can read about it. It's 576 00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:24,640 Speaker 1: at our website how stuff works dot com for more 577 00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:26,959 Speaker 1: on this and thousands of other topics. Is it how 578 00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:32,920 Speaker 1: stuff works dot com