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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind from how Stuff

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Speaker 1: Works dot Com. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind.

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Speaker 1: My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Julie Douglas. And

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Speaker 1: as promised, this episode is all about that's right, we

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Speaker 1: promised to bring you the Gordian Knot of race and

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Speaker 1: Gordian knot. We use that phrase because in Greek and

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Speaker 1: Roman mythology, the Gordian knot was an extremely complicated knot

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Speaker 1: tied by Gordius a king and Asia minor. And this

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Speaker 1: knot has come to symbolize a complicated and seemingly unsolvable problem.

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Speaker 1: But here's the crux here. If you want to solve it,

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Speaker 1: it requires novel and bold actions. And we're trotting out

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Speaker 1: this metaphor today because we're discussing the Gordian knot of

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Speaker 1: race as it exists here in the United States, Yes,

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Speaker 1: here in the the United States where we have a black president,

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Speaker 1: and as well discuss how I just framed the problem

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Speaker 1: is in itself a slippery slope of logic that leads

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Speaker 1: to questions like, well, how can racial inequity exist in

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Speaker 1: a country with a black president? Right? Because this is

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Speaker 1: this idea that, after all this outward evidence of racism,

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Speaker 1: isn't there anymore? Right that we feel like maybe racism

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Speaker 1: has receded into the shadows and something like the klu

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Speaker 1: klex Klan, they're not hanging out visibly anymore at least,

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Speaker 1: And that leads us to something even more pernicious, and

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Speaker 1: it's called racism without racist. Yeah. You know, you mentioned

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Speaker 1: the bold actions of solving the Gordian not earlier. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And of course the classic example of that is that

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Speaker 1: Alexander the Great shows up and just cuts it in

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Speaker 1: half and says, hey, I solved or not? And you

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Speaker 1: know that works in the Greek myth. But with with

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Speaker 1: with racism, you see some you see a number of

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Speaker 1: different false uh solving of the of the riddles, of

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Speaker 1: false unravelings of the not. For instance, the sort of

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Speaker 1: Alexander the Great move of cutting it in half is

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Speaker 1: it's sort of like saying, hey, well, look there are

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Speaker 1: no overt racist in my immediate sphere of influences, there

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Speaker 1: are no overt racist in my workplace. Um. And and

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Speaker 1: then in this leads to people saying such kind of

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Speaker 1: stupendous things as oh, we live in a post racist world,

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Speaker 1: a post race world, and of course, all of that's

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Speaker 1: uh completely false. Um Because even if you do not

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Speaker 1: have overt racism, if you don't have uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: hate groups in your immediate midst um with you know,

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Speaker 1: outright and open discrimination in your workplace, etcetera, you still

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Speaker 1: have the reality of unsuspecting people who see the world

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Speaker 1: through a racially biased lens. That's right, because you have

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Speaker 1: subtler forms of racism, and it persists within the cultural fabric,

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Speaker 1: as we'll discussed today. Sun Heel Milanovon is a professor

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Speaker 1: of economics that Harvard, and in an opinion piece for

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Speaker 1: The New York Times, he articulated this problem of racism

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Speaker 1: without racist quote. Ugly pockets of conscious bigotry remain in

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Speaker 1: this country, but most discrimination is more insidious. The urge

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Speaker 1: to find and call out the biggot is powerful, and

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Speaker 1: doing so is satisfying, but it is also a way

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Speaker 1: to let ourselves off the hook. Rather than point fingers outward,

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Speaker 1: we should look inward and examine how, despite best intentions,

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Speaker 1: we discriminate in ways big and small. So while there

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Speaker 1: may be good intentions behind this notion of c no color,

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Speaker 1: it actually does a disservice to trying to achieve equality. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and I think that Stephen Colbert always did a great

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Speaker 1: job of that on the Colbert Report. Um, he had

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Speaker 1: the recurring bit where he would say, I don't see race.

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Speaker 1: People tell me I'm white because X, and then there

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Speaker 1: would be some sort of punchline that implied the the

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Speaker 1: the the innate racism of Stephen Colbert, the character um

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Speaker 1: because yet to say that you don't see race, that

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Speaker 1: race doesn't factor into your uh, into your daily life,

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Speaker 1: even into your perception of those around you, is ludicrous.

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Speaker 1: Uh Because when you when is we're going to discuss

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Speaker 1: in this episode, when you when you look below the surface,

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Speaker 1: there is there is a lot going on there. There's

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Speaker 1: there is a tremendous amount of a scientific research that

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Speaker 1: shows that that people do uh notice race, gender, wealth, weight, etcetera.

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Speaker 1: That we see all of these things, even if we

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Speaker 1: don't want to believe that we see these things, we

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Speaker 1: see them and we factor them into our judgments of others.

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Speaker 1: Right now. According to psychologist Daniel Kahneman, we think both

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Speaker 1: fast and slow, fast meaning that we rely on patterns

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Speaker 1: that determine unconscious decision making that we call sometimes intuitive judgment,

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Speaker 1: and slow meaning the couple of factors that were actively

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Speaker 1: consciously weighing when we're making a decision. And within this

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Speaker 1: configuration there is something called implicit bias, and that plays

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Speaker 1: directly into fast thinking. Now, the National Center for State

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Speaker 1: Courts rights that, unlike explicit bias, which reflects the attitudes

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Speaker 1: or beliefs that one endorses at a conscious level, implicit

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Speaker 1: biases the bias and judgment and or behavior that results

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Speaker 1: from subtle cognitive processes, so implicit attitudes and implicit stereotypes,

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Speaker 1: and that they often operate at a level below conscious

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Speaker 1: awareness and without intentional control, And that these sort of

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Speaker 1: implicit biases they develop over time, and usually it's because

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Speaker 1: of some sort of social connection. This can be your

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Speaker 1: family and the sort of implicit bias that they may

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Speaker 1: have that you have assumed for yourself. It can be

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Speaker 1: your friends, It can be um, just people that you

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Speaker 1: even look up to and what their views are. Now,

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Speaker 1: you could also have it from an accumulation of personal experience,

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Speaker 1: and um, I'm talking about experiences that connect certain racial

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Speaker 1: groups with fear or other negative effects. The National Center

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Speaker 1: for State Courts talks about a study in which white

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Speaker 1: individuals who scored highly on measures of implicit racial bias

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Speaker 1: also reacted to images of unfamiliar black faces with stronger

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Speaker 1: amygdala activation. So we've talked about this before. The amygdala

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Speaker 1: is associated with emotional learning and fear conditioning. So you

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Speaker 1: see implicit bias played out in that way, those kind

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Speaker 1: of associations which played directly into brain processes. And then

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Speaker 1: you know that people share a common social understanding of stereotypes.

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Speaker 1: So again here is implicit bias kind of leaking into

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Speaker 1: the cultural fabric. So maybe you don't subscribe to that

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Speaker 1: particular stereotype, but the fact that it's in our culture

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Speaker 1: and it may be bandied about means that you may

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Speaker 1: be passively absorbing it into your own worldview. Yeah. I mean,

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Speaker 1: they're like symbols, which we've discussed at length before. The

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Speaker 1: symbol is out there, and the symbol is is informing

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Speaker 1: your mind, uh at times at a subconscious level. And

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Speaker 1: the same can be said of any of these, uh,

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Speaker 1: these various stereotypes for different racial groups. Again, patterns at

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Speaker 1: the subconscious level. And then there's something called implicit egoism,

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Speaker 1: which is basically that we tend to prefer people like ourselves.

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Speaker 1: However we define that and at the surface level that

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Speaker 1: tends to be how we look. So there there are

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Speaker 1: those different ways that implicit bias begins to seep into

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Speaker 1: our lives. Now, when it comes to measuring implicit bias,

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Speaker 1: we have a very handy and uh and proven tool

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Speaker 1: at our disposal. UM. It comes to us from University

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Speaker 1: of Washington psychology professor Anthony Greenwald created the Implicit Association Test,

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Speaker 1: or the I A T and and he and a

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Speaker 1: few associates, Uh, they put it out there. They they

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Speaker 1: continue to develop it, and since they initially rolled it out,

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Speaker 1: the test has been used in more than one thousand

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Speaker 1: research studies are on the world and more than ten

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Speaker 1: million versions of the test have been completed. UM at

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Speaker 1: an Internet site that we're gonna have a call out

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Speaker 1: for later, UM with the I A T and and

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Speaker 1: I encourage everyone to take it. We we both took it,

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Speaker 1: and it's a very it's a very interesting experience. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And you'll see why as I explain it here. UM.

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Speaker 1: You have to categorize a sequence of words or images

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Speaker 1: such as a black face or a white face and

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Speaker 1: words uh as such as good bad by pressing one

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Speaker 1: of two labeled buttons. So, for instance, you might be

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Speaker 1: instructed to press the left button when you see a

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Speaker 1: black face or whenever a negative word appears. Okay, so, um,

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Speaker 1: you know, black face shows up, push that left button.

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Speaker 1: The word distrustful shows up, you push that left button,

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Speaker 1: then the right button. Then you press the right button

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Speaker 1: when you see a white face or a positive words

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Speaker 1: a white face trustworthy or some word of that nature.

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Speaker 1: But then they flip it around. Okay, so you have

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Speaker 1: to press one button for black positive and one for

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Speaker 1: white negative. Um. And then then and this is where

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Speaker 1: the interference effects come into play. Individuals who associate black

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Speaker 1: with bad will respond much more slowly when black and

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Speaker 1: good share the same response button. Now, UM, I don't

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Speaker 1: know if you have the same experience when you were

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Speaker 1: taking this online, but um, and again I was coming

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Speaker 1: into this after reading about how it works. But you

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Speaker 1: really do kind of feel your mind being pulled in

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Speaker 1: half on some of these where you're having to to

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Speaker 1: stop and think, all right, wait, which which side am

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Speaker 1: I am I associating this word with versus versus the

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Speaker 1: other side. Yeah, it's kind of like the Stroop tests

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Speaker 1: in that way, because it really, uh, it really takes

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Speaker 1: a lot of attention because you already have that pattern down,

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Speaker 1: and so they begin messing with the pattern and that's

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Speaker 1: where they find that space where they can kind of

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Speaker 1: ferret out your the delay time right, and also your

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Speaker 1: choices because sometimes you'll get it wrong and it will

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Speaker 1: tell you right, give me the wrong choice, um, And

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Speaker 1: it gives you a bit of insight there also gives

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Speaker 1: you about five ten questions about just your general feelings

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Speaker 1: about politics, right, and then later on more specifically about

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Speaker 1: how you feel about um, Europeans VERSUS African Americans and

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Speaker 1: so on and so forth. So some of it you

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Speaker 1: do have to try to bring a bit of awareness

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Speaker 1: to what your feelings are and you have to be

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Speaker 1: really honest about it too. Yeah, and didn't take long

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Speaker 1: at all to to fill it out. But it's amazing

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Speaker 1: how much depth it has, especially you know, if you're

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Speaker 1: just comparing it to you know, which X men are

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Speaker 1: you test on on on the internet? Um. Now, again,

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Speaker 1: since this was initially rolled out, UM, it's been used

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Speaker 1: a lot and the and the status really back up

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Speaker 1: its effectiveness. UM. In fact, when it comes to race,

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Speaker 1: seventy of those who took a version of the test

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Speaker 1: that measures racial attitudes have an unconscious or implicit preference

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Speaker 1: for white people compared to blacks, and you can compare

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Speaker 1: that to a twenty self reporting percentile. So the individuals

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Speaker 1: who who took this particular version of the test of

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Speaker 1: them are are are self reporting that they prefer the

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Speaker 1: white UH faces, that they have a preference for the

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Speaker 1: white faces, but seventy are actually proving that out based

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Speaker 1: on their delay times. So the reporting isn't adding up

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Speaker 1: to what their actual actions are, right, and this shows

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Speaker 1: how they're really cutting into with this test. They're really

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Speaker 1: cutting into that implicit bias, to that level of bias

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Speaker 1: that we're not aware of in our daily life, that's

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Speaker 1: just going on under the surface of our conscious cognition. Now,

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Speaker 1: a two thousand nine meta analysis headed by Anthony Greenwald,

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Speaker 1: who of course UH invented the thing UH, looked at

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Speaker 1: one twenty two published and unpublished reports of a hundred

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Speaker 1: and eighty four different research studies, and they found that

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Speaker 1: in socially sensitive areas, especially black white interracial behavior, the

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Speaker 1: test had significantly greater predictive value than self reports. Again,

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Speaker 1: that's seventy verse twenty do we mentioned overall? UH. This

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Speaker 1: meta analysis study looked at numerous uses of the I

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Speaker 1: A T including consumer preference black white, interracial behavior, personality differences,

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Speaker 1: clinical phenomena, alcohol and drug use, non racial inner group behavior,

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Speaker 1: gender and sexual orientation, close relationships, and political preferences. And

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Speaker 1: across all nine of these areas measures of the test

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Speaker 1: were useful in predicting social behavior. Now, it's worth noting

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Speaker 1: that in consumer and political preferences, both self reporting and

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Speaker 1: implicit measures effectively predicted the behavior, but self reports had

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Speaker 1: significantly greater predictive validity. So again, this test kind of

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Speaker 1: serves to to prove out how much of our decision

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Speaker 1: making and judgment UH is taking place below the surface.

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Speaker 1: I mean, the good news is that implicit by us

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Speaker 1: is malleable to some degree, and it's responsive to the

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Speaker 1: person's motives and environments. And we'll talk about that more later. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: let's talk about empathy, which which is of course is

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Speaker 1: one of the most important factors in untying and unraveling

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Speaker 1: that hideous knot. Yeah, and and also an important factor

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Speaker 1: in just being one of the cornerstones of humanity, right, Like,

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Speaker 1: that's part of the whole cooperative where we're all signing

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Speaker 1: into this agreement that we're going to try to help

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Speaker 1: and support each other as much as possible. Well, not

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Speaker 1: all of us have signed that, but you know, generally

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Speaker 1: that's the idea in trying to survive as a species.

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Speaker 1: So you would think that empathy would be hardwired in

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Speaker 1: all of us into some degree. It is, but it

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Speaker 1: may be that levels of empathy exist now. In a

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Speaker 1: two thousand and thirteen study called Racial Bias and Perceptions

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Speaker 1: of Others Pain by try Walter at All, this idea

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Speaker 1: of the racial empathy gap was explored. The researchers asked

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Speaker 1: participants to rate how much pain they would feel in

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Speaker 1: eighteen different scenarios. We're talking about anywhere from stubbing your

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Speaker 1: toe to getting shampoo in your eye. Yeah, the worst

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Speaker 1: is the worst. Then they rated how another person a

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Speaker 1: randomly assigned photo of an experimental target would feel in

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Speaker 1: the same situation, and sometimes the target was white, sometimes black,

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Speaker 1: and each experiment, the researchers found that white participants, black participants,

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Speaker 1: and nurses and nursing students assumed that blacks felt less

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Speaker 1: pain than whites, and the researchers were really interested in that,

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Speaker 1: particularly why why other black people might think that black

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Speaker 1: people experience pain less? And so um they did some

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Speaker 1: follow up studies trying to drill down a bit more

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Speaker 1: as to the cause here, and they found that the

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Speaker 1: more privilege assumed of the target, the more pain the

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Speaker 1: participants perceived for that person. So this is very closely

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Speaker 1: tied to race because we're talking about privilege and um,

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Speaker 1: you know, the so to economic status of that person,

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Speaker 1: and the reason for this misperception of pain, this idea

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Speaker 1: that black people could endure more pain or have less

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Speaker 1: pain was directly related to this assumption that that because

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Speaker 1: black people face more hardships, they wouldn't feel as much pain.

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Speaker 1: This was their conclusion. So basically, at the subconscious level,

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Speaker 1: the brain is saying that person has experienced more pain

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Speaker 1: in their life probably and therefore they're a little more

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Speaker 1: used to pain. They can they can handle it right.

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Speaker 1: And again they bring up the semantics here because they're

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Speaker 1: talking more about privileged people versus nonprivileged people. But they're

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Speaker 1: also seeing the racial bias here because the assumption with

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Speaker 1: the stereotype also is that the less privileged person would

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Speaker 1: be the black person. Gotcha. Now, additional studies have looked

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Speaker 1: into this situation, including a two thousand ten Italian study

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Speaker 1: from Seppens University in Rome. And this study took both

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Speaker 1: Italians and UH and and black Italians Italians of African descent,

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Speaker 1: and they watched short films depicting needles penetrating a person's

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Speaker 1: hand or a Q tip gently touching the same spot

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Speaker 1: UH and then they measured their their their their, their

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Speaker 1: empathetic response to that bit of footage. So the results

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Speaker 1: which line up with what we've been discussing here, people

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Speaker 1: watching the painful episode responded in a way that was

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Speaker 1: specific to the particular muscle they saw being stimulated. When

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Speaker 1: the film character was of the same race, but those

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Speaker 1: of a different race U, it didn't it didn't evoke

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Speaker 1: the same senseo motor response. Now, they conducted further studies

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Speaker 1: where the researchers tested individual's responses to pain inflicted on

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Speaker 1: models with violet hands. Now that I read this is

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Speaker 1: violent Wandes initially in the study, which really threw me off.

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Speaker 1: But violet colored hands. So they essentially are throwing in

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Speaker 1: a third non existent race of violet colored people here. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So in and in these cases, the participants empathetic response

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Speaker 1: was restored. So, in other words, since they have no

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Speaker 1: script for what violet colored people would uh would deal

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Speaker 1: with in terms of pain in their life. They just

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Speaker 1: revert to normal. They're like me, which is an interesting

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Speaker 1: and interesting fact to it. And then there's a two

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Speaker 1: thousand and fourteen University of Virginia psychology study that looked

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Speaker 1: at children. Specifically, they looked at American children between seven

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Speaker 1: and ten, and specifically they looked at the American children,

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Speaker 1: and they found that children between seven and ten reported

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Speaker 1: that black children feel less pain than white children. Uh

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Speaker 1: So here we see explicit bias emerging um in early childhood. Now,

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Speaker 1: there's zero evidence for racial bias in this study among

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Speaker 1: study participants at the age of five and younger, but

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Speaker 1: the bias began showing up among participants at the age

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Speaker 1: of seven and then became a prominent at the age

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Speaker 1: of ten. So this is this is an area that

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Speaker 1: the researchers are still exploring because obviously, as we've discussed,

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Speaker 1: we have the the explanation that well, it's based on

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Speaker 1: on what you you think the the personal history for

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Speaker 1: an individual of this race is and where they fall

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Speaker 1: in the socio economic spectrum. But it's uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's kind of a lot to expect that level of

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Speaker 1: of judgment going on with children that are seven to ten, right, So,

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Speaker 1: to what extent is that going on, or to what

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Speaker 1: extent is this tied to explicit egoism. It's a good question.

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Speaker 1: It's just it's a pretty stunning study because to know

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Speaker 1: that children that young would be developing those ideas and

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Speaker 1: expressing them, at least unconsciously or even overtly, is really disturbing.

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Speaker 1: And I think kind of parts the curtain of the

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Speaker 1: curtains of the brain to give us more insight into

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Speaker 1: how things are working under cover. Jason Silverstein and his

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Speaker 1: article on this very topic wrote, quote, the racial empathy

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Speaker 1: gap helps explain disparities and everything from pain management to

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Speaker 1: the criminal justice system. But the problem isn't just that

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Speaker 1: people disregard the pain of black people. It's somehow even worse.

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Speaker 1: The problem is that the pain isn't even felt. In

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Speaker 1: other words, empathy is not being engaged. And when empathy

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Speaker 1: isn't being engaged, then you're objectifying that person. And that's

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Speaker 1: that's where your your cornerstone of humanity is crumbling. Yeah, so,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I mean it plays into everything from you

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Speaker 1: see a story about some sort of misfortune happening to

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Speaker 1: an individual of another race on television and you're less

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Speaker 1: involved in the story. Uh. It plays into your just

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Speaker 1: your your ability to interact with everyone around you, like,

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Speaker 1: are you engaging with the same level of empathy, are

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Speaker 1: you on the same page, Are you giving the same

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Speaker 1: value to everyone in your surroundings. No? And that's what

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Speaker 1: was so interesting about that implicit association test. The i

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Speaker 1: A T that I took is that yeah, I uh

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Speaker 1: suspected that I would have some racial biases, but and

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Speaker 1: I came out as slight on the test. They don't say, hey,

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Speaker 1: you're a racist. They say that you have a slight

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Speaker 1: preference for European Americans. Um. But still, like, that's it's

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Speaker 1: unsettling to think that this may have been playing out

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Speaker 1: in different ways that I operate in the world. And

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Speaker 1: so that's why I think it's so important for people

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Speaker 1: to try to to drill down a bit into themselves

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Speaker 1: and figure out how it might be playing out, because

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Speaker 1: this would make the difference. You have searched for a

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Speaker 1: house before, yes, yes, a couple of times. Yeah, the

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Speaker 1: grueling work of trying to find some sort of housing,

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Speaker 1: and it turns out that again, the racial bias exists

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Speaker 1: here in the housing market. John Taylor, the president and

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Speaker 1: chief executive the National Community Reinvestment Coalition, which helps improve

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Speaker 1: housing and underserved communities, told The New York Times in

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Speaker 1: an interview that polling shows that many Americans think financially

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Speaker 1: stable customers have the same opportunities to obtain good housing

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Speaker 1: regardless of race. Again, this is the c no color logic, right,

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Speaker 1: And this just isn't so, because there is a two

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Speaker 1: thousand and thirteen national study that was commissioned by the

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Speaker 1: Federal Department of Housing and Urban Development, and they found

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Speaker 1: some startling inequities. They had eight thousand tests. Here, they

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Speaker 1: had one white and one minority tester of the same

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Speaker 1: gender and age, posing as equally well qualified renters or buyers,

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Speaker 1: visiting the same housing provider or agent, and in more

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Speaker 1: than half of the test cases, both testers were shown

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Speaker 1: the same number of apartments or homes, but in cases

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Speaker 1: where one tester was shown more homes or apartments, the

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Speaker 1: white tester was usually favored, leading to a higher number

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Speaker 1: of units shown to whites. And overall, black prospective runners

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Speaker 1: were presented eleven percent fewer rentals than whites, Hispanics about

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Speaker 1: twelve percent fewer rentals, and Asians about ten percent fewer rentals,

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Speaker 1: and as perspective, buyers blacks were presented presented seventeen percent

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Speaker 1: fewer homes and Asians fewer homes. So UM, what's interesting

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Speaker 1: about this is that it plays out in individual scenarios,

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Speaker 1: and you can look at that information if you want.

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Speaker 1: You can see these individual scenarios where UM, once the uh,

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Speaker 1: the real estate agent found out that this person was

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Speaker 1: black or Hispanic, they would actually cancel the appointments. So

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Speaker 1: there were canceled appointments and so on and so forth.

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Speaker 1: But what I also found is that white testers were

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Speaker 1: more frequently offered lower rents, told that deposits and other

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Speaker 1: moving costs were negotiable or were quoted a lower price,

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Speaker 1: and taking into account fees, deposits and rents, apartments were

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Speaker 1: more likely to cost white slightly less in the first

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Speaker 1: year rental than blocks might pay. So it's not you,

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Speaker 1: it's it's it's an issue of access to housing, but

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Speaker 1: it's also an issue to the cost of housing as well.

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Speaker 1: And by the way, these tests were performed in twenty

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Speaker 1: eight metropolitan areas with no substantial difference across cities or regions.

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Speaker 1: And it's not just housing. There was a study by

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Speaker 1: Ian Iris and Peter Siegelman, and they found that more

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Speaker 1: than three hundred paired audits at new car dealerships revealed

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Speaker 1: that dealers quoted significantly lower prices to white males than

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Speaker 1: to black or female test buyers. And they were using

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Speaker 1: the identical scripted bargaining strategies for the same model of car. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So there was no variation in here because they were

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Speaker 1: trying to do the exact, uh replicated scenario over and

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Speaker 1: over again. The only difference, of course was gender and race.

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Speaker 1: And the black test buyers were offered initial prices roughly

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Speaker 1: seven hundred dollars higher, and they received far smaller concessions.

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Speaker 1: So you know, this sort of bells and whistles that

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Speaker 1: a dealer might throw in on on a car for you,

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Speaker 1: you know. And we, of course we also see implicit

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Speaker 1: bias come into play in the workplace and and and

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Speaker 1: in whether one gets a job or not, whether one

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Speaker 1: is paid an appropriate amount and amount that is on

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Speaker 1: the level with under individuals with the same skill set, expertise, etcetera. UM.

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Speaker 1: For instance, just to look at us, some quick census

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Speaker 1: stats from two thousand thirteen US Census Stats, UM, black

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Speaker 1: men were paid seventy of what white men were paid.

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Speaker 1: White women, by the way, we're paid seventy eight percent

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Speaker 1: of what white men were paid. And uh, African American

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Speaker 1: women were paid sixty percent of what white men were paid.

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Speaker 1: But that's once the paycheck is actually in play. When

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Speaker 1: it comes to even just getting a job and having

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Speaker 1: the chance to have a fair shot at a position, um,

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Speaker 1: the bias comes into play in some some really startling ways. Uh.

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Speaker 1: There are a couple of studies that look at this. One.

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Speaker 1: It's a two thousand three study titled are Emily and

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Speaker 1: Greg more Employable than Lakisha and Jamal? A Field Experiment

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Speaker 1: on labor market discrimination. This is p in American Economic Review,

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Speaker 1: and it casts some interesting light on all of this. Now,

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Speaker 1: what they did. The researchers mailed out thousands of resumes

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Speaker 1: to employers with job openings and and measured which ones

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Speaker 1: were selected for callbacks for interviews. Some of these were

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Speaker 1: randomly tagged with stereotypically African American names, such as the

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Speaker 1: title suggests Jamal or Lakisha, and some with stereotypically white

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Speaker 1: names like like Emily or Greg. Okay, So what they

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Speaker 1: found was that the same resume was roughly fifty percent

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Speaker 1: more likely to result in a callback for an interview

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Speaker 1: if they had a white name. And then, in two

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Speaker 1: thousand nine, another study actually tried this out in person.

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Speaker 1: They sent in actual people for low wage job interviews,

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Speaker 1: identical resumes, identical interview training, and yet they found that

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Speaker 1: African American applicants with no criminal record were offered jobs

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Speaker 1: at the at a rate as low as white applicant

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Speaker 1: with a criminal record. Now, in terms of discriminating against

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Speaker 1: African American names, we can also look to healthcare and

431
00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:13,160
Speaker 1: we see a study supporting this bias. At two national conferences,

432
00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:17,280
Speaker 1: when seven and twenty doctors were shown patient histories and

433
00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:21,359
Speaker 1: asked to make judgments about heart disease, they were much

434
00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:25,600
Speaker 1: less likely to recommend cardiac catholization, which would be a

435
00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:29,880
Speaker 1: really helpful procedure to black patients, even when their medical

436
00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:35,200
Speaker 1: files were statistically identical to those of white patients. Now,

437
00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:41,320
Speaker 1: there's another study about racial bias in healthcare, and this one, though,

438
00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:45,119
Speaker 1: takes more of a generational approach, and it's interesting. Um,

439
00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:48,040
Speaker 1: there were two hundred two first year medical students at

440
00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:53,199
Speaker 1: Johns Hopkins who participated in implicit association tests. All right,

441
00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:56,120
Speaker 1: that was the test that we talked about earlier. Six

442
00:26:56,920 --> 00:27:00,800
Speaker 1: had an unconscious biased toward whites and fourteen percent innately

443
00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:04,760
Speaker 1: favored blacks. They also determined that of the students had

444
00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:09,840
Speaker 1: subconsciously favored upper class people. Again, there's that that privileged

445
00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:12,919
Speaker 1: bias there, while just three percent showed a preference for

446
00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:16,480
Speaker 1: those of a lower cap class. So here's the thing

447
00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:19,560
Speaker 1: about the first year med school students. They found that

448
00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:23,000
Speaker 1: the unconscious preferences of students did not affect how they

449
00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:26,240
Speaker 1: assessed or treated patients of various races and incomes depicted

450
00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:28,720
Speaker 1: in the scenarios. And this is good news because what

451
00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:33,199
Speaker 1: this is saying is that this generation may have been

452
00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:37,639
Speaker 1: exposed to educational curriculum focused on cultural competency and that

453
00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:40,919
Speaker 1: helped them to improve their awareness in the management of

454
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:46,840
Speaker 1: their unconscious preferences. So while the racial bias existed, their

455
00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:52,399
Speaker 1: behavior stemming from it, uh, we're not affected. Which is

456
00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:55,960
Speaker 1: a bit of a bright spot in all of this information. Yeah,

457
00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:58,640
Speaker 1: I mean, that's that's definitely a bright spot. But yeah,

458
00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:03,080
Speaker 1: when you start breaking down like all the ways that

459
00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:10,200
Speaker 1: that that racial bias explicit and implicit um disadvantage an individual,

460
00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:12,840
Speaker 1: I mean, it's really staggering because we've talked about studies

461
00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:15,199
Speaker 1: that have they have looked into how it affects the

462
00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:18,119
Speaker 1: purchase of a vehicle, the renning of an apartment, acquiring

463
00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:20,640
Speaker 1: a job, but other studies have looked at the how

464
00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:24,680
Speaker 1: it negatively impacts a person of colors ability to get

465
00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:28,560
Speaker 1: a response from their legislator. Here back about research opportunities

466
00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:32,800
Speaker 1: at a university received fair treatment from a jury. Uh.

467
00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:35,840
Speaker 1: One study even found that a white hand holding an

468
00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:40,880
Speaker 1: iPod received more offers than a black hand holding the

469
00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:45,920
Speaker 1: same iPod on eBay. So yeah, it ends up impacting

470
00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:50,600
Speaker 1: like pretty much every area of your life, you know, healthcare, schools,

471
00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:54,200
Speaker 1: every and interaction comes with a potential handicap. All the

472
00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:56,520
Speaker 1: little things we in in life that we take for granted,

473
00:28:56,600 --> 00:28:58,560
Speaker 1: and as well as the big things like dealing with

474
00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:03,000
Speaker 1: employment and and UH and and and law enforcement. It's

475
00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:05,680
Speaker 1: it's staggering. Well. And the housing thing I thought was

476
00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:09,400
Speaker 1: particularly unsettling because not only are people given less choices,

477
00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:14,520
Speaker 1: they were sometimes shuttled into different communities and so you know,

478
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:19,400
Speaker 1: the real estate agents or the real estate companies were

479
00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:23,320
Speaker 1: actually trying to get you know, the their black clients

480
00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:26,480
Speaker 1: to go into black neighborhoods, and so this begins to

481
00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:29,600
Speaker 1: affect what your choices are in schools as well. And

482
00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:32,280
Speaker 1: so you see that play out as you say, all

483
00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:35,600
Speaker 1: these these little um all these little choices combined with

484
00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:39,640
Speaker 1: the big choices that are essentially stacked against you, at

485
00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:42,800
Speaker 1: the end of the day, that stacked just becomes massive

486
00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:45,600
Speaker 1: and overwhelming. Yeah, I mean, I can't help but think

487
00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:47,760
Speaker 1: of things like this in Dungeons and Dragons terms. It's

488
00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:50,320
Speaker 1: like having a character sheet with all your stats and

489
00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:53,120
Speaker 1: then someone says, oh, just go ahead and knock you know,

490
00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:56,000
Speaker 1: five off of all your stats. You know, all your

491
00:29:56,040 --> 00:29:59,160
Speaker 1: your your your abilities, and your potential. That would be

492
00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:03,400
Speaker 1: grossly un air in any micro reality of a game,

493
00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:07,120
Speaker 1: but it's the kind of inequality that is everywhere in

494
00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:09,480
Speaker 1: the real world. Yeah, it's like that dollar a bill

495
00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:12,200
Speaker 1: analogy that we talked about in the school to prison pipeline.

496
00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:14,880
Speaker 1: You know, if you're if everybody's at the starting line initially,

497
00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:18,680
Speaker 1: and then you have to keep taking steps back because

498
00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:21,000
Speaker 1: you you're being handicapped, then you're not going to get

499
00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:23,000
Speaker 1: to that dollar bill as fast, right, and that dollar

500
00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:27,480
Speaker 1: bill represents your future. And moreover, you have to then shoulder.

501
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:29,360
Speaker 1: If you're a person of color, you have to shoulder

502
00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:33,920
Speaker 1: those stereotypes that are put upon you. So there's also

503
00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:40,080
Speaker 1: this expectation um that's an albatross psychologically, and then it's

504
00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:44,280
Speaker 1: playing itself out in these real world scenarios. So it

505
00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:47,080
Speaker 1: would seem that to change this, to have a paradigm

506
00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:50,680
Speaker 1: change in racial biases, to try to get to a

507
00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:55,200
Speaker 1: place of equality, it would all hinge on empathy again,

508
00:30:56,040 --> 00:31:00,520
Speaker 1: the willingness to empathize. And nothing is a greater motivator

509
00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:04,000
Speaker 1: of empathy then someone trying to imagine what it would

510
00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:06,760
Speaker 1: be like for themselves. And of course we've got a

511
00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:09,880
Speaker 1: study for this, and of course it has to do

512
00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:12,880
Speaker 1: with a rubber hand. Again, I feel like the rubber

513
00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:16,200
Speaker 1: hand study just keeps popping up. Two thousand and thirteen

514
00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:19,959
Speaker 1: study conducted by the European Research Council and published in

515
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:24,840
Speaker 1: Cognition used this rubber hand illusion to get participants in

516
00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:29,840
Speaker 1: the mindset of one another, and it's really effective. We've

517
00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:33,040
Speaker 1: talked about it before. It plays into something called pro

518
00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:36,680
Speaker 1: pre aceptive drift, and that's where your mind essentially adopts

519
00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:39,680
Speaker 1: the fake limb as its own and then reacts to

520
00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:42,280
Speaker 1: it when a fake hand is touched while at the

521
00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:45,960
Speaker 1: same time the experimenter is touching the participant's own hand,

522
00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:48,520
Speaker 1: which is hidden out of you. So that's how this

523
00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:52,640
Speaker 1: set up this illusion works now using Caucasian participants, the

524
00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:57,480
Speaker 1: researchers in this case tested the participants implicit attitudes towards

525
00:31:57,520 --> 00:32:01,320
Speaker 1: people with dark skin. Then they used a dark skinned

526
00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:03,880
Speaker 1: rubber hand to make them feel as if it was

527
00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:09,280
Speaker 1: their own hand. Afterward, they tested participants racial attitudes after

528
00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:13,240
Speaker 1: the experiment, and the results, well, the more intense the

529
00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:17,520
Speaker 1: participants illusion of owning the dark skin rubber hand, the

530
00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:23,560
Speaker 1: more positive their racial attitudes came or became afterward. And

531
00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:27,880
Speaker 1: it's because this illusion created an empathy overlap, creating less

532
00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:32,680
Speaker 1: differences in the mind of the non white participants, getting

533
00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:34,520
Speaker 1: them to that place of empathy that they needed to

534
00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:36,560
Speaker 1: be in. Yeah, I mean, so much of what we're

535
00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:38,480
Speaker 1: talking about here just brings me back to the the

536
00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:42,240
Speaker 1: admittedly tired and worn out analogy. Uh, don't judge a

537
00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:45,360
Speaker 1: book book by its cover, right, But yet, as we discussed,

538
00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:49,120
Speaker 1: that's that's what our brain does. Our brain has a

539
00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:52,520
Speaker 1: certain economy to it. It has to process all of

540
00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:55,520
Speaker 1: the stimuli at at a pretty fast rate. So it

541
00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:59,440
Speaker 1: ends up judging books on covers because that isn't sometimes

542
00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:01,800
Speaker 1: an effective way of figuring out what's inside of a book.

543
00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:06,400
Speaker 1: But uh, but if we can actually stop to consider

544
00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:08,960
Speaker 1: what's behind the book, to consider to at least flip

545
00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:11,800
Speaker 1: it over to read the back right, Uh, you have

546
00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:13,320
Speaker 1: a lot more empathy. You I'll have a lot more

547
00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:15,600
Speaker 1: understanding of what's going on, and you have even a

548
00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:19,480
Speaker 1: potentially a better ability to just distinguish. Um. We see

549
00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:22,680
Speaker 1: a lot of this in law enforcement. Um and and granted,

550
00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:25,400
Speaker 1: the whole it's the whole discussion of law enforcement and

551
00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:28,800
Speaker 1: race is an entire topic onto itself, but you do

552
00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:30,560
Speaker 1: see a lot of research coming out of that area.

553
00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:34,160
Speaker 1: Two thousand nine, Brown University and University of Victoria researchers

554
00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:38,040
Speaker 1: developed a new measurement system and protocol, which they call

555
00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:42,680
Speaker 1: it Effective Lexical Priming Scores or ALPS, to train Caucasian

556
00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:47,960
Speaker 1: subjects to recognize different African American faces. Um And it's uh,

557
00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:50,320
Speaker 1: it's has a certain amount of common with the I

558
00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:52,760
Speaker 1: that we we already discussed. It's a lot of looking

559
00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:56,120
Speaker 1: at faces and then teaching the individual to sort of

560
00:33:56,160 --> 00:34:00,120
Speaker 1: stop and look beyond Uh. Their initial judgment call of

561
00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:03,080
Speaker 1: that face, essentially, in other words, teaching people to notice

562
00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:06,840
Speaker 1: the difference between the beneath or behind the all too

563
00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:11,440
Speaker 1: easy classification of race, which is again, yes, looking beyond

564
00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:14,000
Speaker 1: the cover of that book, and it's as you said,

565
00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:17,640
Speaker 1: there there is a kind of pattern recognition that works

566
00:34:17,680 --> 00:34:21,399
Speaker 1: behind the scenes. Again, it's that fast, slow thinking that

567
00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:25,560
Speaker 1: we can't necessarily help because that's that's how our brains work.

568
00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:29,160
Speaker 1: But we can help it in slowing down and recognizing

569
00:34:29,160 --> 00:34:32,359
Speaker 1: that our racial biases exists, so that the next time

570
00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:35,600
Speaker 1: that we go through that process, we've tagged it and

571
00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:38,440
Speaker 1: there's there's an awareness there. Yeah, I feel like this

572
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:40,520
Speaker 1: is a common theme that comes up in the in

573
00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:44,759
Speaker 1: the podcast. Is that so a mere awareness of how

574
00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:47,719
Speaker 1: you're thinking and why you're thinking is not, you know,

575
00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:50,480
Speaker 1: a cure all, but it's so often the first step

576
00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:56,200
Speaker 1: in addressing the situation. Just realizing how you're dealing with

577
00:34:56,200 --> 00:34:59,400
Speaker 1: the situation, how you're judging a situation, how you're processing

578
00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:02,200
Speaker 1: the information and it's coming into your brain. Well, especially

579
00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:04,680
Speaker 1: if you consider it as a behavior, because we can

580
00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:07,560
Speaker 1: change our behaviors, right, if you think that you're just

581
00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:13,440
Speaker 1: inherently going to be uh, racially biased. Then you're probably

582
00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:15,520
Speaker 1: not going to change your behaviors, right, because you think

583
00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:17,200
Speaker 1: that's a part of who you are. But if you

584
00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:20,120
Speaker 1: realize that some of it is just this uh background

585
00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:24,040
Speaker 1: noise that you've absorbed culturally, maybe within your family, then

586
00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:27,080
Speaker 1: you understand that to be a sort of behavioral loop

587
00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:30,440
Speaker 1: in the brain that can be changed. Um. We or

588
00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:33,719
Speaker 1: did everybody go and test your hidden bias? Uh? You

589
00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:39,480
Speaker 1: can do this at tolerance dot org. They're actually a

590
00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:41,879
Speaker 1: bunch of different kinds of biases that you can test

591
00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:48,360
Speaker 1: against gender, race, religion. It's fascinating, um, and it will

592
00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:50,640
Speaker 1: help you to come to a better understanding of how

593
00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:53,960
Speaker 1: you operate in the world. Yeah. Plus, just the process

594
00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:56,080
Speaker 1: of taking the test is just kind of it's a

595
00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:58,719
Speaker 1: little mind blowing. Um. It's an interesting experience. So I

596
00:35:58,719 --> 00:36:01,880
Speaker 1: recommend it even if you're just into tests. Yeah. On

597
00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:03,840
Speaker 1: a meta level, right, you can see it because you're like,

598
00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:05,560
Speaker 1: I see the pattern, I see you messing with my

599
00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:08,239
Speaker 1: brain and then they mess with your brain and you're

600
00:36:08,239 --> 00:36:11,359
Speaker 1: not quite sure if it happened. It's a it's nice

601
00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:17,000
Speaker 1: trickery and test taking. Also, um, check out the excellent

602
00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:22,240
Speaker 1: Radio and Love podcast episode called silver Dollar. It's really

603
00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:26,920
Speaker 1: fine storytelling. It is first person narrative about what it

604
00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:29,520
Speaker 1: is to be a subject of racial bias and how

605
00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:35,040
Speaker 1: one man dealt with it. So I can't recommend that enough.

606
00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:38,120
Speaker 1: It's great And if you want to check that out,

607
00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:41,080
Speaker 1: if you want to go to that tolerance dot orga

608
00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:43,720
Speaker 1: link that we mentioned. Both of those will be included

609
00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:47,800
Speaker 1: on the landing page for this podcast episode at stuff

610
00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:50,440
Speaker 1: to Blow your Mind dot com. That's also where you

611
00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:53,640
Speaker 1: will find all of our blog posts, all of our videos,

612
00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:56,560
Speaker 1: all of our stuff that we've done. That's the mothership

613
00:36:56,880 --> 00:36:59,520
Speaker 1: and want to reiterate to that. Again, we did not

614
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:02,560
Speaker 1: cover law enforcement or the legal system when it comes

615
00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:06,480
Speaker 1: to racial bias. This is a topic unto itself. Um So,

616
00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:10,160
Speaker 1: if you have any thoughts on this topic or any

617
00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:12,200
Speaker 1: future ones that you would like to recommend to us,

618
00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:15,040
Speaker 1: you could do that by emailing us at below the Mind.

619
00:37:15,160 --> 00:37:21,520
Speaker 1: How staff works dot com for more ONNS and thousands

620
00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:29,799
Speaker 1: of other topics. Does it have stuff works dot com