1 00:00:00,760 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: Hey, dear Latino USA listener. So there's a new series 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:06,960 Speaker 1: by PRX and we wanted to share it with you. 3 00:00:07,000 --> 00:00:11,720 Speaker 1: It's called Monumental, and it's well kind of what you'd 4 00:00:11,720 --> 00:00:15,440 Speaker 1: expect by the title. It's about how monuments reflect the 5 00:00:15,520 --> 00:00:19,200 Speaker 1: story and the realities of America. Quite a topic, huh. 6 00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:23,400 Speaker 1: If there's one figure that's particularly complex and hurtful for 7 00:00:23,480 --> 00:00:27,639 Speaker 1: US Latinos to revisit, and if there's one figure with 8 00:00:27,840 --> 00:00:31,880 Speaker 1: a lot of statues who is particularly complex and yes, 9 00:00:32,280 --> 00:00:36,080 Speaker 1: even hurtful for many Latinos to revisit, that would be 10 00:00:36,320 --> 00:00:40,440 Speaker 1: Christopher Columbus, the man who was glorified for centuries as 11 00:00:40,600 --> 00:00:45,919 Speaker 1: elds guridor the America, the man who discovered America. This 12 00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:51,640 Speaker 1: episode of Monumental questions exactly that the myth of Columbus 13 00:00:51,960 --> 00:00:55,920 Speaker 1: as a discoverer, and it highlights the bloody history that 14 00:00:56,000 --> 00:01:00,360 Speaker 1: has often been erased from that very glorifying narrative. And 15 00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:05,360 Speaker 1: it turns out that that myth is present in monuments 16 00:01:05,400 --> 00:01:09,319 Speaker 1: that are still up in places like Arecibo, Puerto Rico. 17 00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:11,840 Speaker 1: Here's the episode and enjoy. 18 00:01:14,120 --> 00:01:18,480 Speaker 2: The whole idea of the drama and imposition of the 19 00:01:18,520 --> 00:01:23,720 Speaker 2: monumental landscape is that it is meant to feel natural. 20 00:01:24,400 --> 00:01:26,800 Speaker 2: It is not meant to make you stop and think. 21 00:01:26,920 --> 00:01:30,240 Speaker 2: It is meant to be ambient, and in the case 22 00:01:30,280 --> 00:01:33,039 Speaker 2: of so many monuments, it is meant to dwarf you. 23 00:01:33,240 --> 00:01:35,760 Speaker 2: It is meant to make you feel smaller. It is 24 00:01:35,840 --> 00:01:39,720 Speaker 2: meant to make you look up and worship. 25 00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:49,400 Speaker 3: This is Monumental, a podcast series produced by PRX. I'm 26 00:01:49,440 --> 00:01:57,480 Speaker 3: your host Ashley Seaford. The voice you heard at the 27 00:01:57,520 --> 00:02:02,200 Speaker 3: top is Elizabeth Alexander. She's the president of the Mellon Foundation. 28 00:02:02,920 --> 00:02:06,600 Speaker 3: In twenty twenty one, the Mellon Foundation supported an audit 29 00:02:06,720 --> 00:02:11,280 Speaker 3: of every last monument across the US. What they found 30 00:02:11,320 --> 00:02:14,680 Speaker 3: out was that there were a few front runners. Coming 31 00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:18,880 Speaker 3: in at number three, just behind Abraham Lincoln and George 32 00:02:18,919 --> 00:02:23,160 Speaker 3: Washington with one hundred and forty nine monuments across these 33 00:02:23,320 --> 00:02:28,919 Speaker 3: United States, was Christopher Columbus, but that number has been 34 00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:35,280 Speaker 3: falling fast. When I was growing up, Christopher Columbus was 35 00:02:35,320 --> 00:02:39,480 Speaker 3: the reason for Columbus Day. He represented a three day 36 00:02:39,520 --> 00:02:43,320 Speaker 3: weekend and the kickoff for the holiday season. It wasn't 37 00:02:43,400 --> 00:02:46,359 Speaker 3: until I got to college that I started questioning why 38 00:02:46,480 --> 00:02:49,840 Speaker 3: we celebrate him in the first place. I heard first 39 00:02:49,919 --> 00:02:53,520 Speaker 3: hand from other Native American students. While a long weekend 40 00:02:53,600 --> 00:02:57,800 Speaker 3: for me was a source of pain and sadness for them, 41 00:02:58,120 --> 00:03:00,840 Speaker 3: it was a really stark example of how people I 42 00:03:00,919 --> 00:03:03,600 Speaker 3: cared about were forced to see so many of us 43 00:03:04,040 --> 00:03:08,000 Speaker 3: celebrating in our ignorance, And of course it didn't matter 44 00:03:08,040 --> 00:03:13,360 Speaker 3: whether that ignorance was wilful or not. Listening to the 45 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:16,400 Speaker 3: reporting in this episode, I realized that a lot of 46 00:03:16,440 --> 00:03:20,040 Speaker 3: the experiences I was having were paralleled by what was 47 00:03:20,080 --> 00:03:25,679 Speaker 3: happening nationwide. Nineteen ninety two was the five hundredth anniversary 48 00:03:25,760 --> 00:03:30,440 Speaker 3: of Columbus's arrival in the quote unquote New World, and 49 00:03:30,480 --> 00:03:33,920 Speaker 3: that moment sparked a lot of the reappraisal of Columbus 50 00:03:33,960 --> 00:03:37,600 Speaker 3: that were still very much in the middle of soon 51 00:03:37,920 --> 00:03:40,880 Speaker 3: plenty of other perspectives on the Columbus story, it could 52 00:03:40,960 --> 00:03:45,640 Speaker 3: no longer be ignored. Native and Indigenous community stood up 53 00:03:45,720 --> 00:03:49,440 Speaker 3: on behalf of their own populations that had been decimated 54 00:03:49,880 --> 00:03:55,640 Speaker 3: even eradicated by Western colonization. And while Indigenous People's Day 55 00:03:55,760 --> 00:03:59,880 Speaker 3: was proposed as counter programming starting in the late nineteen seventies, 56 00:04:00,360 --> 00:04:03,400 Speaker 3: it wasn't until twenty twenty one that is sitting President 57 00:04:03,600 --> 00:04:08,320 Speaker 3: Joe Biden actually acknowledged it. Over the last few years, 58 00:04:08,640 --> 00:04:11,880 Speaker 3: we've seen the fight over Columbus as a symbol reaching 59 00:04:11,880 --> 00:04:15,920 Speaker 3: a new pitch, with statues being torn down all over 60 00:04:15,960 --> 00:04:32,720 Speaker 3: the place, while statues of Christopher Columbus have been coming 61 00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:39,800 Speaker 3: down in places like Saint Paul, Minnesota, Chicago, and even Columbus, Ohio. 62 00:04:40,360 --> 00:04:43,960 Speaker 3: In this episode, you'll hear the story of the largest 63 00:04:44,040 --> 00:04:49,400 Speaker 3: one in the world, standing tall, very very tall in 64 00:04:49,440 --> 00:04:53,520 Speaker 3: a US territory. We'll look at the legacy of Columbus 65 00:04:53,560 --> 00:04:58,120 Speaker 3: and how it fed into America's own colonialist ambitions, and 66 00:04:58,240 --> 00:05:04,120 Speaker 3: we'll explore how some community are dismantling and reclaiming those narratives. Today. 67 00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:10,240 Speaker 3: Producer Giselli Regaetau, Associate professor of journalism at Barok College 68 00:05:10,279 --> 00:05:12,839 Speaker 3: in New York City, takes the story from here. 69 00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:26,800 Speaker 4: Arecibo is a small beach town in Puerto Rico that 70 00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:31,719 Speaker 4: faces the Atlantic Ocean. The waves are pretty rough, but 71 00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:35,320 Speaker 4: I got in the water anyway. It was warm, pristine 72 00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:40,840 Speaker 4: and clear. On the shore, there are several large rock formations. 73 00:05:41,160 --> 00:05:43,960 Speaker 4: The beach is filled with palm trees. Some of the 74 00:05:43,960 --> 00:05:48,479 Speaker 4: houses are partially destroyed, their walls falling apart, but the 75 00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:55,680 Speaker 4: general filling is still idyllic and lugar sagro. We are 76 00:05:55,760 --> 00:06:00,640 Speaker 4: located in a sacred place, says Pluma Barbara Moreno. She's 77 00:06:00,680 --> 00:06:05,160 Speaker 4: an indigenous activist who lives in this area. Moreno is 78 00:06:05,240 --> 00:06:09,240 Speaker 4: forty nine years old. She has brown skin and very long, 79 00:06:09,440 --> 00:06:12,359 Speaker 4: dark straight hair that moves all over her face with 80 00:06:12,440 --> 00:06:17,000 Speaker 4: the strong wind. She's wearing this colorful necklace and earrings 81 00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:20,479 Speaker 4: that are made of wood and feathers. From where we're 82 00:06:20,560 --> 00:06:24,600 Speaker 4: standing in Punta Caracoli's beach, she points out a giant 83 00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:28,720 Speaker 4: statue that's located more than two miles away, Siga Mina 84 00:06:28,760 --> 00:06:32,839 Speaker 4: Jumbogo behelpico. If you walk a little bit, you see 85 00:06:32,880 --> 00:06:36,720 Speaker 4: it speak. She says. I was running earlier today and 86 00:06:36,800 --> 00:06:39,640 Speaker 4: I actually stopped when I saw the statue far away 87 00:06:39,640 --> 00:06:43,160 Speaker 4: on the shore. It's way taller than the palm trees around. 88 00:06:43,200 --> 00:06:44,600 Speaker 5: It was a little bit. 89 00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:48,680 Speaker 4: I'm going to tell you the truth, she says. I 90 00:06:48,720 --> 00:06:50,719 Speaker 4: pass in front of it. It's on a roof that's 91 00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:53,960 Speaker 4: used by the community. But I don't even like looking 92 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:57,200 Speaker 4: at it because every time I look at it, I 93 00:06:57,240 --> 00:07:06,440 Speaker 4: remember an unpunished crime. Moreno is talking about the birth 94 00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:10,320 Speaker 4: of the New world. That's a monument of Christopher Columbus 95 00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:14,360 Speaker 4: that is larger than the Statue of Liberty. It was 96 00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:19,080 Speaker 4: inaugurated in Arecibo in twenty sixteen. I was surprised by 97 00:07:19,120 --> 00:07:23,520 Speaker 4: how recently the statue was installed here. By then, many 98 00:07:23,560 --> 00:07:27,000 Speaker 4: Columbus statues had been vandalized and a few taken down 99 00:07:27,040 --> 00:07:32,480 Speaker 4: all over the world. Moreno and other indigenous groups have 100 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:37,280 Speaker 4: protested against this monument for years. So monumento di ferrari 101 00:07:37,520 --> 00:07:42,640 Speaker 4: historico purque this is a monument of historical fraud. Why 102 00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:45,200 Speaker 4: because first we have to talk about the fact that 103 00:07:45,280 --> 00:07:49,080 Speaker 4: here there were no conquests. People talk about the conquerors. 104 00:07:49,440 --> 00:07:53,000 Speaker 4: Here there are no conquerors. There are invaders, she says. 105 00:07:53,840 --> 00:07:56,880 Speaker 4: Moreno says she and other groups will continue to fight. 106 00:07:57,640 --> 00:08:00,760 Speaker 4: Right now. They are asking that statues and names of 107 00:08:00,840 --> 00:08:05,080 Speaker 4: the so called conquerors be removed from everywhere in Puerto Rico. 108 00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:10,200 Speaker 4: It's a tad one representa el polo criminal. This statue 109 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:13,280 Speaker 4: represents the worst of crimes. If they're going to take 110 00:08:13,320 --> 00:08:16,080 Speaker 4: it down right now or not, I don't know. Maybe 111 00:08:16,080 --> 00:08:19,080 Speaker 4: it won't be right now, but it will happen. Because 112 00:08:19,120 --> 00:08:23,240 Speaker 4: we believe in justice, the justice we can perpetuate ourselves. 113 00:08:23,800 --> 00:08:31,520 Speaker 4: We tirelessly will continue to fight, she says. On my draft. 114 00:08:31,560 --> 00:08:34,000 Speaker 4: To get closer to the statue, I stopped to get 115 00:08:34,040 --> 00:08:36,960 Speaker 4: coffee at a food truck. It's parked in front of 116 00:08:36,960 --> 00:08:47,680 Speaker 4: a hardware store called Ferreteria Caracolis. Felix Mielis is the 117 00:08:47,720 --> 00:08:52,800 Speaker 4: owner of the store. You can see the statue from here, 118 00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:56,240 Speaker 4: he tells me proudly. His store is about half a 119 00:08:56,280 --> 00:09:00,079 Speaker 4: mile from the monument. Mielis sees the statue in a 120 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:04,720 Speaker 4: very different way than Pluma Moreno, the indigenous activist into 121 00:09:04,880 --> 00:09:11,400 Speaker 4: Lando Mueno. Touristically speaking, it's very good, he says. Mielis 122 00:09:11,520 --> 00:09:14,720 Speaker 4: was born and raised in Arecibo. He's seen lots of 123 00:09:14,800 --> 00:09:21,400 Speaker 4: changes since the statue got here. On weekends, there's a 124 00:09:21,520 --> 00:09:24,800 Speaker 4: men's traffic. It's been very favorable for all the businesses 125 00:09:24,960 --> 00:09:28,520 Speaker 4: for the town of Arecibo. Many people have been motivated 126 00:09:28,559 --> 00:09:32,280 Speaker 4: to set up shops in the area. Basically, Arecibo was 127 00:09:32,320 --> 00:09:36,120 Speaker 4: not on the map before, he says. Mieli says he 128 00:09:36,280 --> 00:09:40,120 Speaker 4: knows that other Columbus statues have been removed, but he 129 00:09:40,240 --> 00:09:43,600 Speaker 4: thinks the Birth of the New World belongs right here. 130 00:09:44,600 --> 00:09:47,840 Speaker 6: Part the lictorial entrobais para Obarama. 131 00:09:48,720 --> 00:09:51,959 Speaker 4: It is part of our country's history, for the good 132 00:09:52,440 --> 00:10:10,199 Speaker 4: or the bad, he says. I'm now rid in front 133 00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:12,800 Speaker 4: of the Birth of the New World on a narrow 134 00:10:12,880 --> 00:10:18,160 Speaker 4: coastal road in Arecibo. Seeing this massive bronze monument up 135 00:10:18,160 --> 00:10:22,560 Speaker 4: close hits me even harder than I expected. The gigantic 136 00:10:22,640 --> 00:10:25,360 Speaker 4: Columbus is on top of a hill facing the beach. 137 00:10:26,040 --> 00:10:30,800 Speaker 4: Picture a twenty story building. It's taller than that. I'm 138 00:10:30,840 --> 00:10:32,920 Speaker 4: here with a Puerto Rican historian. 139 00:10:33,640 --> 00:10:36,800 Speaker 7: My name is Aura Hiraja Royo, and I am an 140 00:10:36,800 --> 00:10:40,040 Speaker 7: assistant professor of history at Eastern Illinois University, and I'm 141 00:10:40,080 --> 00:10:43,600 Speaker 7: originally from Bajamont, Puerto Rico, which is twenty minutes west 142 00:10:43,640 --> 00:10:44,280 Speaker 7: of San Juan. 143 00:10:45,120 --> 00:10:49,600 Speaker 4: auDA hiral studies activism in Puerto Rico. She's wearing two 144 00:10:49,679 --> 00:10:53,520 Speaker 4: long silver earrings that say in one critica or critic 145 00:10:54,040 --> 00:10:58,439 Speaker 4: and on the other luchadorra or fighter. I asked her 146 00:10:58,480 --> 00:11:00,839 Speaker 4: to meet me here, and it's her first time seeing 147 00:11:00,840 --> 00:11:02,040 Speaker 4: the statue up close. 148 00:11:03,840 --> 00:11:06,160 Speaker 7: I just find its esthetically and not pleasing because it 149 00:11:06,160 --> 00:11:08,560 Speaker 7: dimensions are so messed up, like the boat is so 150 00:11:08,679 --> 00:11:17,120 Speaker 7: small and the Columbus looks so big. Oh, I'm just 151 00:11:17,240 --> 00:11:17,880 Speaker 7: very stunned. 152 00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:25,640 Speaker 4: The dimensions are a mishmash. Columbus is standing on a 153 00:11:25,679 --> 00:11:29,480 Speaker 4: small boat behind the ship's helm. He's wearing a hat 154 00:11:29,520 --> 00:11:32,520 Speaker 4: and a robe, and his right hand is raised awkwardly 155 00:11:32,800 --> 00:11:37,200 Speaker 4: palm facing up. Behind him. There are three sails. They 156 00:11:37,240 --> 00:11:40,640 Speaker 4: represent the ships from his journey across the Atlantic in 157 00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:44,840 Speaker 4: fourteen ninety two. The statue sits on private land and 158 00:11:44,880 --> 00:11:48,319 Speaker 4: you can't get close to it. It's fenced off. I'm 159 00:11:48,360 --> 00:11:51,679 Speaker 4: going to tell you why in a minute. I visited 160 00:11:51,720 --> 00:11:55,200 Speaker 4: the statue several times over a holiday weekend. A lot 161 00:11:55,280 --> 00:11:57,760 Speaker 4: of people didn't even look at it at all. Just 162 00:11:57,760 --> 00:12:00,959 Speaker 4: a few stop their cars, should take pictures from the road. 163 00:12:01,480 --> 00:12:03,440 Speaker 4: Drasa Melandez is one of them. 164 00:12:03,840 --> 00:12:08,000 Speaker 8: Joeywan Pennsylvania, Cata, Pennsylvania, she tells me. 165 00:12:08,080 --> 00:12:11,800 Speaker 4: She lives in Lancaster, Pennsylvania and is a pre school teacher. 166 00:12:12,400 --> 00:12:15,680 Speaker 4: She's of Puerto Rican descent and stops by the statue 167 00:12:15,800 --> 00:12:21,679 Speaker 4: every time she's in this area. I don't know much 168 00:12:21,720 --> 00:12:24,520 Speaker 4: about the history. There are people for and against it, 169 00:12:24,760 --> 00:12:28,120 Speaker 4: but I just keep myself neutral and just enjoy the statue, 170 00:12:28,160 --> 00:12:32,080 Speaker 4: she says. Historian Ala Hiral says she's never wanted to 171 00:12:32,160 --> 00:12:35,920 Speaker 4: visit the statue because she believes Columbus is a problematic 172 00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:37,599 Speaker 4: historical figure. 173 00:12:37,840 --> 00:12:41,439 Speaker 7: And Porto Rico specifically, we have a huge problem glorifying 174 00:12:41,640 --> 00:12:44,440 Speaker 7: great man. Christopher Columbus is the first one we learned 175 00:12:44,640 --> 00:12:46,600 Speaker 7: to glorify in school. I don't know if you've heard 176 00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:54,800 Speaker 7: about this, the Columbus song. It's like India, like in 177 00:12:54,840 --> 00:12:58,120 Speaker 7: a little town in Italy. Naso Cristo Cologne. Cristopher Columbus 178 00:12:58,160 --> 00:13:06,600 Speaker 7: was born yeah Lard and a Vegas. He enjoyed looking 179 00:13:06,640 --> 00:13:09,200 Speaker 7: at shifts and speaking about sailing. 180 00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:15,320 Speaker 4: In Hira's opinion, the European colonizer's impact here was devastating. 181 00:13:15,920 --> 00:13:18,360 Speaker 7: The violence of people like Columbus and his cronies in 182 00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:21,720 Speaker 7: the early stages of Conquisa was such that our native 183 00:13:21,720 --> 00:13:28,520 Speaker 7: people got killed like on mass So it's so bizarre 184 00:13:28,960 --> 00:13:33,560 Speaker 7: to see someone like him be praised as this intelligent person, 185 00:13:33,840 --> 00:13:35,000 Speaker 7: this innovative person. 186 00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:41,520 Speaker 4: It might seem bizarre now, but that is how the 187 00:13:41,679 --> 00:13:45,080 Speaker 4: artists who created Birth of the New World saw Columbus 188 00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:49,720 Speaker 4: when he built the statue. His name is Zurabi. He 189 00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:51,960 Speaker 4: grew up in Georgia when it was part of the 190 00:13:51,960 --> 00:13:52,880 Speaker 4: Soviet Union. 191 00:13:53,880 --> 00:13:58,960 Speaker 8: If you take early nineties eighties, it's a fascination with 192 00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:00,680 Speaker 8: a person who discs over the world. 193 00:14:01,920 --> 00:14:06,839 Speaker 4: This is what upse Telly's grandson, Vasili. He's often his 194 00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:11,400 Speaker 4: spokesperson because his grandfather lives in Moscow and doesn't speak English. 195 00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:15,240 Speaker 8: It's higher than Statue of Liberty because in the idea 196 00:14:15,280 --> 00:14:19,280 Speaker 8: of my grandfather, first then land was discovered on which 197 00:14:19,480 --> 00:14:20,600 Speaker 8: the freedom was built. 198 00:14:21,800 --> 00:14:25,040 Speaker 4: I met Vasili at his lawyer's office in Midtown Manhattan. 199 00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:28,400 Speaker 4: He greeted me warmly and even gave me two books 200 00:14:28,400 --> 00:14:30,320 Speaker 4: about his grandfather. We come. 201 00:14:30,760 --> 00:14:32,520 Speaker 1: I just landed yesterday. 202 00:14:32,640 --> 00:14:35,720 Speaker 4: Oh my gosh, for you, the books. Oh thank you. 203 00:14:36,640 --> 00:14:40,080 Speaker 4: Vasili says his grandfather created the statue in the early 204 00:14:40,160 --> 00:14:44,280 Speaker 4: nineteen nineties to celebrate the five hundredth anniversary of columbus 205 00:14:44,320 --> 00:14:48,800 Speaker 4: arrival to the Americas. He says it was his hardest project. 206 00:14:49,520 --> 00:14:53,000 Speaker 8: To Columbus was a difficult monument. It's a very difficult 207 00:14:54,240 --> 00:14:58,120 Speaker 8: monument to create and to place it. 208 00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:01,320 Speaker 4: I ask, Vasili said it Telly. If he thinks his 209 00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:05,200 Speaker 4: grandfather would have built the monument today, probably not. 210 00:15:05,920 --> 00:15:08,320 Speaker 8: It's a different world. At that time, it was five 211 00:15:08,360 --> 00:15:12,000 Speaker 8: hundred anniversary to celebrate the United States. Whole United States 212 00:15:12,040 --> 00:15:16,200 Speaker 8: was celebrating, and you have to understand also from where 213 00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:20,760 Speaker 8: we are coming from. It's an artist Georgian creating a 214 00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:24,800 Speaker 8: monument in Soviet Union where you could not envision of 215 00:15:24,920 --> 00:15:30,680 Speaker 8: traveling anywhere. So Columbus, for many of people who were 216 00:15:31,240 --> 00:15:35,520 Speaker 8: deprived of traveling, deprived of thinking of new ideas, and 217 00:15:35,560 --> 00:15:37,560 Speaker 8: everything was a symbol of something new. 218 00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:42,240 Speaker 4: After he created the statue Zurapse, Telli needed a home 219 00:15:42,280 --> 00:15:45,560 Speaker 4: for it, and that turned out to be much harder 220 00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:51,560 Speaker 4: than he anticipated. He envisioned this statue in Roosevelt Island 221 00:15:51,600 --> 00:15:54,640 Speaker 4: in New York City, but there wasn't enough local support 222 00:15:54,680 --> 00:16:00,320 Speaker 4: to make that happen. Other cities weren't interested either, including Columbus, Ohio, Myami, 223 00:16:00,400 --> 00:16:04,560 Speaker 4: and Boston. The governor of Puerto Rico accepted the statue 224 00:16:04,560 --> 00:16:07,680 Speaker 4: as a gift in nineteen ninety eight. They spent more 225 00:16:07,720 --> 00:16:10,400 Speaker 4: than two million dollars in public funds to bring it 226 00:16:10,440 --> 00:16:14,880 Speaker 4: to the island. They hoped it would attract tourists. It 227 00:16:14,960 --> 00:16:17,240 Speaker 4: was supposed to go to a suburb of the capital 228 00:16:17,280 --> 00:16:20,680 Speaker 4: of San Juan, but local people protested and a new 229 00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:25,120 Speaker 4: mayor came in, so the gigantic bronze pieces went into 230 00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:32,360 Speaker 4: storage for sixteen years. In twenty fourteen, Jose Gonzales, fred 231 00:16:32,520 --> 00:16:36,520 Speaker 4: who's a local businessman, decided to install the statue on 232 00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:40,440 Speaker 4: his private land in Arecibo. His plan was to develop 233 00:16:40,480 --> 00:16:45,240 Speaker 4: a park and other attractions around it. Serratelli says Gonzales 234 00:16:45,280 --> 00:16:50,120 Speaker 4: and his grandfather financed the installation together. They spent almost 235 00:16:50,200 --> 00:16:54,720 Speaker 4: twenty million dollars, and in twenty sixteen, Birth of the 236 00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:59,280 Speaker 4: New World was inaugurated. Ingrid Rivera was the head of 237 00:16:59,320 --> 00:17:02,680 Speaker 4: the government aid agency in charge of tourism in Puerto Rico. 238 00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:09,960 Speaker 4: Then we're talking about the tallest structure in the Americas, 239 00:17:10,280 --> 00:17:13,280 Speaker 4: and that will make people want to visit it, she says. 240 00:17:13,920 --> 00:17:17,879 Speaker 4: Even after the statue finally went up, the turmoil around 241 00:17:17,880 --> 00:17:22,240 Speaker 4: it continued. In twenty nineteen, set Telis sued the owner 242 00:17:22,280 --> 00:17:25,120 Speaker 4: of the land. He said people were climbing on top 243 00:17:25,160 --> 00:17:29,359 Speaker 4: of the statue. The party is eventually settled, and that's 244 00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:32,800 Speaker 4: when the fence was built around it. The park and 245 00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:39,560 Speaker 4: other attractions still haven't been built. This is not the 246 00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:43,120 Speaker 4: first time that Zuran s Telli's work has been tangled 247 00:17:43,160 --> 00:17:47,960 Speaker 4: in controversy. His massive statue of the Russians are Peter 248 00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:53,960 Speaker 4: the Great in downtown Moscow is overwhelmingly disliked says Alex Rodriguez. 249 00:17:54,720 --> 00:17:58,199 Speaker 4: Rodriguez was the Russian correspondent of the Chicago Tribune and 250 00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:01,320 Speaker 4: is now on its editorial board. He got a rare 251 00:18:01,440 --> 00:18:04,600 Speaker 4: increase in interview with Sir Robsa. Tella in two thousand 252 00:18:04,600 --> 00:18:09,359 Speaker 4: and five. Rodriguez asked him directly to respond to his critics. 253 00:18:09,960 --> 00:18:12,520 Speaker 9: The way they refer to it was he had a 254 00:18:12,560 --> 00:18:16,480 Speaker 9: conveyor belt approach to art, just churning it out rather 255 00:18:16,560 --> 00:18:20,480 Speaker 9: than focusing on meaning, on something to say on quality. 256 00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:24,080 Speaker 9: His answer was something akin to Goya or Donna, Tello 257 00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:28,200 Speaker 9: or Michaelangelo. Would you ask the same question to them? 258 00:18:28,520 --> 00:18:31,400 Speaker 9: So he was equating himself with some of the great 259 00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:33,280 Speaker 9: artists in history. 260 00:18:33,320 --> 00:18:36,760 Speaker 4: Still, his sculptures are displayed in places like the United 261 00:18:36,920 --> 00:18:39,960 Speaker 4: Nations in New York City and also in London, Rome 262 00:18:40,119 --> 00:18:45,400 Speaker 4: and Tokyo. Rodriguez says that's because of his wealth and connections. 263 00:18:45,840 --> 00:18:50,480 Speaker 9: He early on was able to find friends in high places, 264 00:18:50,520 --> 00:18:54,440 Speaker 9: in powerful places, and that's how he rose up the ranks. 265 00:18:54,680 --> 00:18:57,679 Speaker 9: So if people with a lot of power and money 266 00:18:58,160 --> 00:19:01,080 Speaker 9: like the art that you create, regardless of what the 267 00:19:01,119 --> 00:19:04,200 Speaker 9: masses think, you're going to go places and your art's 268 00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:07,680 Speaker 9: going to be paid for and commonly displayed. 269 00:19:07,920 --> 00:19:10,880 Speaker 4: In the case of Birth of the New World. Arecibo 270 00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:15,639 Speaker 4: is not exactly a prominent location, but Julian Go isn't 271 00:19:15,680 --> 00:19:18,840 Speaker 4: surprised to find a Columbus statue in Puerto Rico. 272 00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:24,920 Speaker 10: Everywhere across the colonial world, monuments go up to the colonizers. 273 00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:28,560 Speaker 4: He's a professor of sociology at the University of Chicago 274 00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:33,399 Speaker 4: who studies empires and colonialism. He says, it's unfortunate to 275 00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:38,360 Speaker 4: have this symbol of imperialism here. Let's consider Puerto Rico's 276 00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:42,440 Speaker 4: status as an American territory and the history that led 277 00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:47,520 Speaker 4: up to this. Columbus opened the door. Then, for over 278 00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:50,880 Speaker 4: four hundred years, Puerto Rico was a colony of Spain, 279 00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:54,680 Speaker 4: like most of Latin America, but while other countries in 280 00:19:54,760 --> 00:19:58,800 Speaker 4: the region became independent, Puerto Rico didn't. When the Spanish 281 00:19:58,840 --> 00:20:02,479 Speaker 4: American War ended in eighteen ninety eight, the US took it, 282 00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:07,159 Speaker 4: along with Spain's other possessions, the Philippines and wamp Go 283 00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:11,359 Speaker 4: says when the US first took over, it promised to 284 00:20:11,480 --> 00:20:14,880 Speaker 4: shape its new colonies in America's image. 285 00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:19,400 Speaker 10: There was a sort of pretext of helping Puerto Ricans 286 00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:23,400 Speaker 10: and Filipinos learn how to become one day self governing, 287 00:20:23,840 --> 00:20:25,840 Speaker 10: and so they let them have elections, they let them 288 00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:29,320 Speaker 10: whole political office. But again the Americans controlled and made 289 00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:30,760 Speaker 10: all final decisions. 290 00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:35,200 Speaker 4: Today, Puerto Rico is a US territory, but Go says 291 00:20:35,480 --> 00:20:37,240 Speaker 4: that term is misleading. 292 00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:40,159 Speaker 10: I do think Puerto Rico has the status of a 293 00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:43,760 Speaker 10: colony or a quasi colony. There are a whole series 294 00:20:43,800 --> 00:20:47,879 Speaker 10: of privileges and rights that Puerto Ricans are denied. I mean, officially, 295 00:20:48,080 --> 00:20:50,119 Speaker 10: if you are a Puerto Rican resident, you can't vote for 296 00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:52,080 Speaker 10: the president. For the president can send you to war. 297 00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:57,120 Speaker 4: Puerto Rico is neither an American state nor an independent country. 298 00:20:57,600 --> 00:21:00,919 Speaker 4: Puerto Ricans are US citizens, but they don't have representation 299 00:21:01,040 --> 00:21:05,720 Speaker 4: in Congress. Essentially, it's still under imperial control. According to Go, 300 00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:09,760 Speaker 4: Congress is once again discussing a new bill to the 301 00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:14,439 Speaker 4: side Puerto Rico's status, with the debate between statehood and 302 00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:19,600 Speaker 4: independent swirling. Historian Aura Hirau says Puerto Ricans are seeing 303 00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:22,800 Speaker 4: their history and people like Columbus in a much more 304 00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:23,639 Speaker 4: critical way. 305 00:21:24,520 --> 00:21:27,520 Speaker 7: People are beginning to like say, like, oh, Christopher Columbus 306 00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:31,520 Speaker 7: was not a good person. He helped exterminate our indigenous people. 307 00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:35,560 Speaker 7: So it's very ironic that right when that conversation is shifting, 308 00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:42,280 Speaker 7: they bring that monument here. 309 00:21:43,359 --> 00:21:47,360 Speaker 4: And so a monument to imperialism stands in a small 310 00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:52,680 Speaker 4: town in Puerto Rico, looming over a de facto American colony. 311 00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:57,919 Speaker 3: When we come back, Giselli Reggaetau continues her story on 312 00:21:58,000 --> 00:21:59,360 Speaker 3: the myth of Columbus. 313 00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:04,920 Speaker 5: Columbus could almost be seen as a kind of ancestor 314 00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:10,800 Speaker 5: figure justifying the American colonization of Puerto Rico in the 315 00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:14,280 Speaker 5: eighteen nineties, sort of like the story of colonization coming 316 00:22:14,359 --> 00:22:15,520 Speaker 5: around full circle. 317 00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:20,240 Speaker 3: That's next on Monumental from PRX back in a moment. 318 00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:36,720 Speaker 4: Columbus landed in Puerto Rico on his second trip in 319 00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:40,440 Speaker 4: fourteen ninety three, but he never set foot on the mainland. 320 00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:44,719 Speaker 4: So why has he been portrayed in so many statues 321 00:22:44,760 --> 00:22:49,760 Speaker 4: throughout the country and why are there about five thousand streets, buildings, 322 00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:53,879 Speaker 4: and schools named after Columbus, including the country's capital, the 323 00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:55,080 Speaker 4: District of Columbia. 324 00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:58,840 Speaker 5: I think Columbus was chosen simply because he was seen 325 00:22:58,880 --> 00:22:59,320 Speaker 5: as the. 326 00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:03,360 Speaker 4: First That's Kirk Savage, a professor of history of art, 327 00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:06,320 Speaker 4: and Architecture at the University of Pittsburgh. 328 00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:11,080 Speaker 5: That idea that Columbus was the discoverer, I think is 329 00:23:11,119 --> 00:23:16,040 Speaker 5: what made him the key figure, because the doctrine of 330 00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:21,479 Speaker 5: discovery was so important both legally and ideologically that it 331 00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:24,960 Speaker 5: was enshrined in a Supreme Court decision in eighteen twenty three. 332 00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:29,240 Speaker 4: That was the Supreme Court ruling determining that Native Americans 333 00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:30,800 Speaker 4: do not own land. 334 00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:38,040 Speaker 5: The doctrine of discovery gave the discoverer the ownership rights, 335 00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:42,800 Speaker 5: and that the Native peoples who lived there only occupied 336 00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:45,159 Speaker 5: the land, they didn't own it. You know, the United 337 00:23:45,160 --> 00:23:51,760 Speaker 5: States saw itself as the inheritor of that right of 338 00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:56,000 Speaker 5: conquest through discovery, through Columbus's discovery. 339 00:23:56,160 --> 00:23:59,960 Speaker 4: Savage says. The first Columbus statue was installed in eighteen 340 00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:04,159 Speaker 4: forty four. He was commissioned by the US Congress. It 341 00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:09,000 Speaker 4: featured Columbus with a semi nude woman below him. She 342 00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:10,840 Speaker 4: represented Native Americans. 343 00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:19,119 Speaker 5: Very racist, very problematic, overtly racist statue that depicted Columbus 344 00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:22,359 Speaker 5: as the kind of white man, you know, striding forward 345 00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:26,200 Speaker 5: to the globe in his hand, while this representation of 346 00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:30,600 Speaker 5: the Native people's just cowers below him without any agency. 347 00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:35,720 Speaker 5: That was on the Capitol steps for over a century. 348 00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:40,040 Speaker 4: The statue was in a place of high visibility for 349 00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:43,159 Speaker 4: more than one hundred years. It was the backdrop for 350 00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:48,720 Speaker 4: Presidentcinagro addresses. Then one day it was gone. 351 00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:51,320 Speaker 5: As far as I know, that was the first up 352 00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:57,920 Speaker 5: in the first down. It was removed in nineteen fifty eight, 353 00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:04,160 Speaker 5: ostensibly because they were renovating the Capitol steps. They never 354 00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:07,960 Speaker 5: put this one back because there had been many complaints 355 00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:13,240 Speaker 5: about it from the National Congress of American Indians. They 356 00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:16,480 Speaker 5: complained about it enough that eventually in fifty eight they 357 00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:19,240 Speaker 5: just decided it wasn't worth putting back up, and it's 358 00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:22,520 Speaker 5: been in storage ever since. It's literally never been seen 359 00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:24,080 Speaker 5: publicly since that time. 360 00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:29,480 Speaker 4: In nineteen ninety two, as the US celebrated five hundred 361 00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:34,560 Speaker 4: years of Columbus's arrival on the continent, indigenous groups protested 362 00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:45,280 Speaker 4: against those celebrations and against Columbus statues. But Catherine Dignisio 363 00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:49,320 Speaker 4: points out the opposition to Columbus started way before that. 364 00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:54,480 Speaker 11: He has been challenged since the very beginning, and in 365 00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:58,720 Speaker 11: fact even by people on his own boat. Though Bartolome 366 00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:03,200 Speaker 11: de las Casas is a religious figure who's traveling with Columbus, 367 00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:07,679 Speaker 11: who ended up detailing his accounts of Columbus's barbarism, and 368 00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:11,760 Speaker 11: that's how we know about the violence that was actually perpetrated. 369 00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:16,639 Speaker 11: So even his own people did not revere Columbus and 370 00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:20,040 Speaker 11: did not universally think he was such a great, awesome 371 00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:21,080 Speaker 11: founder of anything. 372 00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:25,760 Speaker 4: Dignizio is an associate professor of Urban Science and Planning 373 00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:30,280 Speaker 4: at MIT. She also directs their Data plus Feminism Lab. 374 00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:34,320 Speaker 4: In twenty twenty one, the lab created a zine challenging 375 00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:39,040 Speaker 4: the greatness of Columbus. It's called we Never Wanted Him Here. 376 00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:43,800 Speaker 4: But her questioning of the Columbus mystique is personal as well. 377 00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:48,520 Speaker 11: I am of Italian American descent. My grandfather was Italian, 378 00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:52,320 Speaker 11: and so Columbus is a figure I've always had mixed 379 00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:53,159 Speaker 11: feelings about. 380 00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:56,840 Speaker 4: Kirk Savage from the University of Pittsburgh says in the 381 00:26:56,920 --> 00:27:01,159 Speaker 4: nineteen hundreds, Italian Americans and organizations like the Knights of 382 00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:05,200 Speaker 4: Columbus played a key role in making statues of Columbus 383 00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:06,480 Speaker 4: even more popular. 384 00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:09,720 Speaker 5: The fact that there are hundreds around the world is 385 00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:13,120 Speaker 5: almost completely owing to the fact that Italian immigrants took 386 00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:15,879 Speaker 5: over this symbol and pushed it as a symbol of 387 00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:19,720 Speaker 5: their own heritage. What I think is important to stress, though, 388 00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:24,600 Speaker 5: is that they adopted Columbus because he was already an 389 00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:29,040 Speaker 5: important figure in White American mythology. 390 00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:33,920 Speaker 4: In nineteen thirty seven, the Knights of Columbus successfully lobbied 391 00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:38,639 Speaker 4: President Franklin Roosevelt to make Columbus Day a national holiday. 392 00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:42,760 Speaker 4: Here he's celebrating the day in one of his radio addresses. 393 00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:44,160 Speaker 4: During World War Two. 394 00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:48,360 Speaker 11: Christopher Columbus oo the aid of Spain. 395 00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:49,680 Speaker 6: Opened up a new world. 396 00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:54,360 Speaker 11: We have freedom, tolerance, and respect for human rights, and 397 00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:58,159 Speaker 11: dignity provided in asylum for the oppressed. 398 00:27:57,680 --> 00:27:58,520 Speaker 7: Of the old world. 399 00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:04,000 Speaker 4: Dignesia says, when she was growing up, her grandfather was 400 00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:08,199 Speaker 4: very proud of Columbus, and she understands the importance of 401 00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:08,920 Speaker 4: that symbol. 402 00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:13,600 Speaker 11: He was very proud of the fact that Italian Americans 403 00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:20,400 Speaker 11: had some representation in the US kind of canonical history. 404 00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:24,919 Speaker 4: When Columbus Day became a national holiday, Italians had become 405 00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:28,920 Speaker 4: the largest immigrant group in the country with political poll 406 00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:32,120 Speaker 4: but it had been a hard road to get there. 407 00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:36,240 Speaker 11: Italian immigrants were very discriminated against. My own grandfather has 408 00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:38,800 Speaker 11: his own stories that he would tell us of the 409 00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:42,600 Speaker 11: times and as such, he wanted to be assimilating into 410 00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:43,720 Speaker 11: white culture. 411 00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:47,760 Speaker 4: And she says that's what the Italian American allyship with 412 00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:49,200 Speaker 4: Columbus tries to do. 413 00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:54,800 Speaker 11: That tries to ally Italian Americans with the dominant white 414 00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:58,360 Speaker 11: culture with this sort of founder's culture, with a nation 415 00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:03,239 Speaker 11: building quote unqung discovery oriented culture. And so you know 416 00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:08,120 Speaker 11: what's the cost of that pride, right, And the cost 417 00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:11,880 Speaker 11: of that is that we're overlooking both Columbus as the 418 00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:17,880 Speaker 11: man himself and the horrible genocidal, violent, sexual assault and 419 00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:21,920 Speaker 11: other incredible violence that he perpetrated as a person. But 420 00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:25,040 Speaker 11: then we're also overlooking the harm of this myth of 421 00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:28,520 Speaker 11: discovery and kind of who is erased by that myth 422 00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:34,960 Speaker 11: as well. 423 00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:40,280 Speaker 4: Kirk Savage understands why earlier generations of Italian American immigrants 424 00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:44,800 Speaker 4: rallied around Columbus, but seeing the harm to indigenous people, 425 00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:47,600 Speaker 4: he himself has picked one side. 426 00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:51,840 Speaker 5: What I guess tilts the debate for me in the 427 00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:55,440 Speaker 5: direction of removal is that this is just really terrible history. 428 00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:58,959 Speaker 5: You know, the Columbus cult is just wrong in so 429 00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:04,240 Speaker 5: many ways and reinforces so many myths about our country 430 00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:08,280 Speaker 5: that need to be changed, and reinforces white supremacy and 431 00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:09,200 Speaker 5: he just needs to go. 432 00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:19,560 Speaker 4: After the killing of Black American George Floyd by police 433 00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:23,480 Speaker 4: in twenty twenty, massive protests led to the removal of 434 00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:32,120 Speaker 4: dozens of statues. Columbus became one of the biggest targets 435 00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:40,040 Speaker 4: moral will him say, We are still here, but he's gone. 436 00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:43,520 Speaker 4: About forty of his statues have been taken down all 437 00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:47,640 Speaker 4: over the country, Around one hundred and thirty still remain. 438 00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:53,479 Speaker 4: As statues of Columbus are coming down, new monuments are 439 00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:56,800 Speaker 4: coming up. Some of them celebrate those who have been 440 00:30:56,840 --> 00:31:02,960 Speaker 4: erased and reject old white supremacists myths. Now immigrants are 441 00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:10,120 Speaker 4: putting themselves at the center of the story. Immigrants from 442 00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:13,440 Speaker 4: all over Living Queens, New York. It's known as one 443 00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:16,960 Speaker 4: of the most diverse urban areas in the world, and 444 00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:20,920 Speaker 4: the neighborhood of Woodside is home to a lot of Filipinos. 445 00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:24,320 Speaker 6: We are on the corner of sixty ninth Street and 446 00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:25,440 Speaker 6: Roosevelt Avenue. 447 00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:29,960 Speaker 4: Jacqueline Reyes is a cultural organizer with a group called 448 00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:34,320 Speaker 4: Little Manila Queens by a Nihon Arts, They create art 449 00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:38,080 Speaker 4: about the Filipino community in New York, like the mural 450 00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:42,680 Speaker 4: they painted on this corner. On it. The word Mabuhai 451 00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:47,240 Speaker 4: is written in yellow and orange letters over a blue background. 452 00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:52,080 Speaker 4: Around it, there are white jasmine flowers and green leaves. 453 00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:56,840 Speaker 4: Reyes says the word means different things in Filipino. 454 00:31:57,120 --> 00:31:59,800 Speaker 6: It has a lot of meanings that doesn't translate an 455 00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:03,240 Speaker 6: in very cleanly, but it means like welcome, may you live. 456 00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:07,760 Speaker 4: The mirror was painted in twenty twenty early COVID times. 457 00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:11,000 Speaker 4: She says, the mirror was meant to lift the spirits 458 00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:13,080 Speaker 4: of the people in the neighborhood. 459 00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:16,960 Speaker 6: When Queens was the epicenter of the epicenter. At the time, 460 00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:21,320 Speaker 6: we knew that Filipinos were going to be more impacted 461 00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:24,280 Speaker 6: by the healthcare crisis because a lot of Filipinos are 462 00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:26,960 Speaker 6: healthcare workers or work in the healthcare sector. 463 00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:31,560 Speaker 4: There's a reason so many Filipino immigrants are in healthcare. 464 00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:36,400 Speaker 4: After the Philippines became a US colony, Americans created nursing 465 00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:41,080 Speaker 4: programs in that country. According to Julian Go, the sociologist 466 00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:45,040 Speaker 4: from the University of Chicago, that was strategic. 467 00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:49,400 Speaker 10: Colonial powers have all kinds of interests, economic and political interests. 468 00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:53,160 Speaker 10: And one of the things besides raw materials that they 469 00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:57,120 Speaker 10: can get from colonies is labor right, cheap labor. 470 00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:01,640 Speaker 4: In the nineteen sixties, the US started allowing foreign professionals 471 00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:05,760 Speaker 4: to come here. The medical field needed workers, and Filipino 472 00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:10,400 Speaker 4: nurses helped meet that need. Jacqueline Rayes says, the mural 473 00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:12,880 Speaker 4: celebrates those nurses, and. 474 00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:15,880 Speaker 6: It was also just to kind of show us solidarity 475 00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:18,720 Speaker 6: to the people living in Queens also to the people 476 00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:21,800 Speaker 6: who came from outside New York City, like welcoming them. 477 00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:25,880 Speaker 4: The mural clearly resonates with a passerby who can't help 478 00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:27,400 Speaker 4: interrupting our interview. 479 00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:29,440 Speaker 7: Iman, who made this one? 480 00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:31,320 Speaker 5: This is so beautiful? 481 00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:33,160 Speaker 10: Oh, you represent the country. 482 00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:34,480 Speaker 6: Yeah, that's what I tried to do. 483 00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:36,480 Speaker 4: How do you think represent the country? 484 00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:40,320 Speaker 10: Yeah, because that word represents the Filipino Yeah. 485 00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:41,920 Speaker 7: So it says long lived. 486 00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:44,040 Speaker 6: That's the meaning of it. Yeah. 487 00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:46,200 Speaker 11: So when you say I'm abuhai to any person, it 488 00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:51,360 Speaker 11: seems that just go on, go on to your life. 489 00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:51,520 Speaker 6: Keep on. 490 00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:57,080 Speaker 4: Yeah. But also Rayes tends to draw people in. 491 00:33:57,520 --> 00:33:59,840 Speaker 6: Or what's your name again? Richard Richard Jack. 492 00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:04,000 Speaker 4: She's thirty six years old. She has straight brown hair 493 00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:08,040 Speaker 4: with a blonde highlight streak. She seems at home here, 494 00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:11,360 Speaker 4: but she actually grew up in Los Angeles. Her parents 495 00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:14,880 Speaker 4: are Filipino immigrants. She says, when she moved to New 496 00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:19,560 Speaker 4: York City in twenty ten, she would often come to Woodside. 497 00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:21,640 Speaker 6: If I needed to get Filipino groceries. If I wanted 498 00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:24,520 Speaker 6: to be around Filipinos, I would come here. 499 00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:29,200 Speaker 4: The mirror was the first project of what Reyes calls 500 00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:33,400 Speaker 4: creative place keeping. As part of that effort, in twenty 501 00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:36,719 Speaker 4: twenty two, they were able to officially co name one 502 00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:41,400 Speaker 4: street here Little Manila Avenue es on box. 503 00:34:44,680 --> 00:34:50,520 Speaker 7: My Boy, I'm Done, by Ann really Pino, by a Veino, 504 00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:51,279 Speaker 7: by on. 505 00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:55,840 Speaker 10: My wohy migrding Bino. 506 00:34:58,719 --> 00:35:02,160 Speaker 6: We saw that the streets getting installed as an important 507 00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:06,080 Speaker 6: part of monument making, because it's like, let's get used 508 00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:08,360 Speaker 6: to like us taking up space publicly. 509 00:35:09,280 --> 00:35:11,800 Speaker 4: The next step will be the creation of a monument 510 00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:15,040 Speaker 4: about a Filipino woman known as tan Dang Sora. 511 00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:20,160 Speaker 6: Tondang Sora is this She's like this revolutionary figure in 512 00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:21,120 Speaker 6: Philippine history. 513 00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:25,680 Speaker 4: Tan Dang Sora is like the anti Columbus. She was 514 00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:29,200 Speaker 4: in her eighties when she provided support for the revolutionaries 515 00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:31,880 Speaker 4: fighting Spain in the late eighteen hundreds. 516 00:35:32,239 --> 00:35:35,480 Speaker 6: She was there like part of the Philippine Revolution, but 517 00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:37,680 Speaker 6: she was taking care of people, and so we want 518 00:35:37,719 --> 00:35:41,520 Speaker 6: to highlight that care labor is just as heroic as 519 00:35:41,719 --> 00:35:44,440 Speaker 6: any other narrative out there. And we thought that this 520 00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:49,440 Speaker 6: monument to Tandang Sora would help, I guess, elevate that 521 00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:52,720 Speaker 6: to increase the visibility of women doing that work. 522 00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:57,439 Speaker 4: Ray says, revolutionaries in the Philippines and Puerto Rico were 523 00:35:57,520 --> 00:36:00,400 Speaker 4: exchanging ideas about how to fight Spain. 524 00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:03,200 Speaker 6: If you look at the Puerto Rican flag and the 525 00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:07,359 Speaker 6: Filipino flag with that triangle, it's because of the solidarity 526 00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:11,759 Speaker 6: between those different communities. So our struggles are intertwined. 527 00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:16,880 Speaker 4: Actually, And like Puerto Rico, the Philippines was ruled by Americans. 528 00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:21,120 Speaker 4: The US controlled the country for almost fifty years until 529 00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:25,840 Speaker 4: nineteen forty six. Rai says with her work, she's highlighting 530 00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:28,440 Speaker 4: voices that were erased by that history. 531 00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:32,440 Speaker 6: Maybe a form of decolonizing is just like amplifying women's 532 00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:35,560 Speaker 6: stories first and just balancing it out the history a 533 00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:38,760 Speaker 6: bit more. And I think that women would approach monuments 534 00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:40,920 Speaker 6: differently because I don't think that women would want to 535 00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:45,600 Speaker 6: impose like huge figures of themselves, right, That's why I like, 536 00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:48,560 Speaker 6: I'm resistant to like just putting another statue up because 537 00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:54,400 Speaker 6: I don't think that our freedom should be imitating our oppression. 538 00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:55,320 Speaker 6: Does that make sense? 539 00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:05,839 Speaker 4: The placing of Birth of the New World in Arecibo 540 00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:10,600 Speaker 4: was quite the saga for cultural organizers like Rais. Building 541 00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:13,920 Speaker 4: a monument is not a simple process either, but for 542 00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:17,440 Speaker 4: very different reasons. Her group has been talking to the 543 00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:21,800 Speaker 4: community and is considering several ideas building a resting place, 544 00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:24,880 Speaker 4: putting art on the bridge that connects Little Manila to 545 00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:27,960 Speaker 4: a central plaza, or designing a statue. 546 00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:32,319 Speaker 6: It takes a long time to really conceptualize something that 547 00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:36,080 Speaker 6: could have the resonance that it should have, the hopes 548 00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:41,320 Speaker 6: and aspirations we want for this message or this figure 549 00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:44,000 Speaker 6: or all of these women that were trying to speak 550 00:37:44,040 --> 00:37:46,600 Speaker 6: for we wanted to do it right. 551 00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:50,440 Speaker 4: They will present different ideas to the community to get 552 00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:53,319 Speaker 4: their feedback, and even though they've got a brand from 553 00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:56,440 Speaker 4: the Melon Foundation, they will probably have to raise more 554 00:37:56,480 --> 00:37:58,200 Speaker 4: money to build something permanent. 555 00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:03,040 Speaker 6: Building a monument is also building consensus around it, building 556 00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:06,319 Speaker 6: the desire, building the consciousness around it. Even if we 557 00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:07,759 Speaker 6: had the money, if we were to just put a 558 00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:11,160 Speaker 6: statue there with no context, it wouldn't mean anything. So 559 00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:14,360 Speaker 6: it's a slow. To change minds, to change our understanding 560 00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:15,680 Speaker 6: of history takes a long time. 561 00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:19,839 Speaker 4: You know, the process that rey Is and her team 562 00:38:19,880 --> 00:38:23,200 Speaker 4: are going through is much more inclusive than how monuments 563 00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:26,960 Speaker 4: have been built in the past. Kirk Savage, the professor 564 00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:31,759 Speaker 4: from the University of Pittsburgh, says that historically, monuments have 565 00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:34,000 Speaker 4: said a lot about who we are as people. 566 00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:38,440 Speaker 5: The process of building and erecting a monument is a 567 00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:43,360 Speaker 5: microcosm of all of the social forces and conflicts that 568 00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:47,840 Speaker 5: go into any kind of political activity and decision making. 569 00:38:48,120 --> 00:38:50,200 Speaker 5: So that's on the one hand. On the other hand, 570 00:38:50,360 --> 00:38:54,080 Speaker 5: you know, the finished monument, once it's erected, becomes, as 571 00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:58,400 Speaker 5: I say, a kind of microcosm of the world that 572 00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:02,840 Speaker 5: is imagined by those people who have the power and 573 00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:05,000 Speaker 5: privilege to imagine that world. 574 00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:08,799 Speaker 4: Unless they are being built with input from the community, 575 00:39:09,080 --> 00:39:13,080 Speaker 4: like Rayes is doing in Queens. Savage says, monuments can 576 00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:15,160 Speaker 4: do more harm than good. 577 00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:19,560 Speaker 5: I would say that after you know lifetime studying traditional 578 00:39:19,640 --> 00:39:22,359 Speaker 5: monuments and say we probably could use a lot less 579 00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:25,720 Speaker 5: of them, I'm not willing to say that we shouldn't 580 00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:28,880 Speaker 5: ever erect anymore, because I think that they still have 581 00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:31,600 Speaker 5: the power to do good. And to change the narrative 582 00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:34,920 Speaker 5: in ways that are healthy and constructive and good for 583 00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:39,920 Speaker 5: us all but most of the time they don't. And 584 00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:43,839 Speaker 5: I think the more we turn the commmditive landscape into 585 00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:47,799 Speaker 5: a more living landscape right in which people are engaging 586 00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:52,000 Speaker 5: with it from different perspectives, in different points of view, 587 00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:53,600 Speaker 5: you know, that's democracy. 588 00:39:55,880 --> 00:39:59,279 Speaker 4: I'm trying to imagine what this living landscape would look like. 589 00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:03,839 Speaker 4: I hope that people of Farcibo in Puerto Rico get 590 00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:04,920 Speaker 4: to create their own. 591 00:40:19,080 --> 00:40:22,560 Speaker 3: This episode of Monumental was written and produced by Giselle 592 00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:27,320 Speaker 3: Reguetau Special thanks to Wendy Smith and Qike Cubero Garcia. 593 00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:32,359 Speaker 3: The senior editor from Monumental is Roslyn Tordecilias, and our 594 00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:36,880 Speaker 3: senior producer is Nancy Rosenbau. Jamie Yorke is our writer 595 00:40:37,239 --> 00:40:41,279 Speaker 3: and our associate producer is Lauren Francis. The show is 596 00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:45,720 Speaker 3: recorded by Bryce Bowman and Ben Ericsson at earshot audio 597 00:40:45,719 --> 00:40:51,640 Speaker 3: posts and mixed by Tommy Bazarian, with support from Emmanuel Disarme, Pedro, 598 00:40:51,760 --> 00:40:58,160 Speaker 3: Rafael Rossado, Morgan Flannery and Sandra Lopez Mansalve. Fact checking 599 00:40:58,160 --> 00:41:02,400 Speaker 3: by Christina Ribello. Our theme was composed and produced by 600 00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:08,040 Speaker 3: Jolani Bowman with additional music by Alexis Quadrado. Edwin Achoa 601 00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:12,560 Speaker 3: is our project manager and our executive producer is Jocelyn Gonzalez. 602 00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:17,759 Speaker 3: Monumental is produced by PRX Productions and made possible by 603 00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:21,200 Speaker 3: a grant from the Melon Foundation. For more on the show, 604 00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:30,040 Speaker 3: visit us at PRX dot org. Backslash Monumental. Coming up 605 00:41:30,120 --> 00:41:33,839 Speaker 3: on the next episode of Monumental, how a civil war 606 00:41:33,960 --> 00:41:37,480 Speaker 3: obelisk has become a flashpoint for a four hundred year 607 00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:41,800 Speaker 3: old identity crisis in Santa Fe, New Mexico, a place 608 00:41:41,840 --> 00:41:46,800 Speaker 3: that's still struggling with the legacy of slavery, colonialism, and belonging. 609 00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:49,600 Speaker 9: Do I look like a savage? 610 00:41:49,960 --> 00:41:52,560 Speaker 4: Does my children look like savages? We don't. 611 00:41:53,160 --> 00:41:56,600 Speaker 2: Words savage and that obelisk are one of the same 612 00:41:57,080 --> 00:41:59,440 Speaker 2: to me and my family and to the indigenous community. 613 00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:03,440 Speaker 3: I'm Ashley c Ford. Thanks for listening.