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Speaker 1: I've been looking forward to this conversation we both have

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Speaker 1: talking to Robbie Suavey, the reporter and staff editor for

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Speaker 1: Reason dot com, Reason dot com, Free Minds and Free Markets.

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Speaker 1: Robbie has a really interesting new book out. It's Armstrong

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Speaker 1: You Getty Extra Art because four hours simply usn't enough.

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Speaker 1: This is Armstrong and Getty extra Large. Robbie suave how

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Speaker 1: are you, sir. I'm doing great. Thanks for having me.

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Speaker 1: It's our pleasure. We've both been great fans of Reason

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Speaker 1: dot com for many many moons and have quoted you

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Speaker 1: guys many times on the fabulous, award winning Armstrong and

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Speaker 1: Getty radio show. Well, thank you. We appreciate that. We

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Speaker 1: spend a fair amount of time last week on this

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Speaker 1: story that was out about how Michigan State University had UH.

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Speaker 1: They were discouraging some words on campus. Do not use

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Speaker 1: the word, but use the word, and do not use

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Speaker 1: the phrase no problem because these are triggers. We want

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Speaker 1: to use less triggers, according to the Michigan State and

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Speaker 1: more calming words. This sort of craziness. I sort of

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Speaker 1: felt like I was hoping that it had like Cress

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Speaker 1: Still a while back, and we're on the downside. But

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Speaker 1: is it growing? Is it? Is it still a thing?

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Speaker 1: It's definitely still a thing. It's hard to tell whether

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Speaker 1: it's growing. The thing is it's growing among a small

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Speaker 1: subset of extremely progressive sort of the low radicals I

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Speaker 1: call them. But they're small in number, so there aren't

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Speaker 1: very many of them. So it's not like, you know,

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Speaker 1: old young people are suddenly like this and we have

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Speaker 1: to make allowances for absolutely the entire generation. It's a

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Speaker 1: small number of people, but they're so loud about it,

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Speaker 1: and they're they've hijacked the conversation on college campuses. So

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Speaker 1: even though they're a tiny minority, everyone is afraid to

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Speaker 1: offend them, especially on campus, and you have entire administrative bureaucracies,

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Speaker 1: you know, reconfiguring their policies to avoid offending five percent

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Speaker 1: of the campus that actually cares. But that's what they're doing. Well,

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Speaker 1: what's their power after place? What's their power? What's what's

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Speaker 1: a tiny group with crazy ideas? How do they get

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Speaker 1: other people to go along with it? They yell, they

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Speaker 1: protested events, They show up and people are are afraid

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Speaker 1: that if they speak out then they'll be they'll be

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Speaker 1: branded racist. To big it I mean, that's what the

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Speaker 1: rest of the campus feels like. The administrators don't really

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Speaker 1: know what to do about these people. Um and some

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Speaker 1: of them are of course ideologically sympathetic, but they just

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Speaker 1: kind of default too. Well, all right, we'll change our

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Speaker 1: policy so that no one says anything offensive ever, will

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Speaker 1: add a couple more categories of marginalization to what the

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Speaker 1: Microaggression Training Committee is supposed to prevent, and so on

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Speaker 1: and so forth. So it's just it's a it's a

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Speaker 1: compliance culture. And uh, you know, the squeakiest wheel gets

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Speaker 1: the Greek is the that saying is so true for

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Speaker 1: how these issues are addressed on campuses. Well, and listen,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna get into the bulk of your book, Panic

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Speaker 1: Attack Young Radicals in the Age of Trump um, which

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Speaker 1: and I love the way you approached it, but it

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Speaker 1: reminds me the previous question of when when like, there's

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Speaker 1: some incredibly draconian policy in a state house to deal

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Speaker 1: with child molest us and you might think, wow, that's

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Speaker 1: over the top, or it's unconstitutional or or what have you.

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Speaker 1: You can so easily be portrayed as being pro child

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Speaker 1: molester or sympathetic to child rape if you advocate against

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Speaker 1: the extreme position. And I know, you know, I got

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Speaker 1: a kid halfway through college, and I'm a big fan

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Speaker 1: of of yours and Greg Lukian Off and and and

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Speaker 1: Fire and all those organizations. But if they can claim

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Speaker 1: loudly and enthusiastically that they're fighting racism, you've got to

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Speaker 1: stand up in favor of racism because they frame the

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Speaker 1: argument that way right right, and they don't recognize you know,

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Speaker 1: historically the left has recognized, well, we want free speech

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Speaker 1: and due process even for people we hate or who's

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Speaker 1: you know who everyone hates whose ears are terrible, not

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Speaker 1: these the Clueklux, Flan, etcetera. The West Board, Baptist Church,

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Speaker 1: and the left just said, well, no, we will defend

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Speaker 1: their rights as well, because you know, we were passionate

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Speaker 1: about these issues. We see civil liberties as good in

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Speaker 1: and of themselves. But the new kind of left, the

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Speaker 1: campus left in particular, no longer thinks civil liberties are

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Speaker 1: good in and of themselves. They're good if they're helping

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Speaker 1: the right groups, the groups that the progressive left is

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Speaker 1: sympathetic too. If it's about giving more rights to minorities

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Speaker 1: of various of various stripes, then they're good, but the

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Speaker 1: same is not true for giving for giving rights to

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Speaker 1: the far right or two people they disagree with, is

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Speaker 1: that they despise. Why should there be free speech for racists,

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Speaker 1: for bigots? This is something a significant number of progressive

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Speaker 1: activists are now asking. When you know, every one of

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Speaker 1: the older school left would have said, well, of course

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Speaker 1: we're giving them rights. Everyone gets right. That's that's it's

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Speaker 1: it's not free speech if it's conditional. But this tension

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Speaker 1: has really emerged in recent years. I've hearn't referred to

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Speaker 1: as cultural Marxism, which I like as a term. But so,

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Speaker 1: I know, when of your your premises was you were

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Speaker 1: gonna listen to these people with an open mind. You know,

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Speaker 1: see what they've got to say. How many people are

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Speaker 1: sort of cynically trying to push some agenda. How many

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Speaker 1: people believe this bullshit? I mean, they actually believe this

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Speaker 1: crap about people being offended by like a phrase like

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Speaker 1: no problem. People can believe things, or they can convince

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Speaker 1: themselves to believe things when it's in their their narrow

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Speaker 1: self interest to do so. You know, I I there

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Speaker 1: are all these kids. I've talked to, some of them

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Speaker 1: saying they have post traumatic stress orders, they have traumas,

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Speaker 1: their mental health is and shambles um. You know, you

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Speaker 1: would you would think like all of these college kids

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Speaker 1: have survived like like the genocide, endorsed darfour or something,

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Speaker 1: when when really they're the most like privileged people who

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Speaker 1: have ever existed in human history. What it is is

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Speaker 1: they're they're but they're convincing themselves that they're emotionally and

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Speaker 1: mentally ill, because if you're a true progressive, you should

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Speaker 1: be you should be having panic attacks and difficulty breathing

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Speaker 1: when you're contemplating how unfair and unequal the world is.

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Speaker 1: So they're trying to the best way to outwoke each

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Speaker 1: other is to be well, okay, well you might be,

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Speaker 1: you know, marginalized because of your sex and your race

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Speaker 1: and your gender identity status. But I I'm also marginalized

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Speaker 1: because I'm depressed and I have post traumatic stress about

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Speaker 1: how horrible everything is. So there's a kind of competition

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Speaker 1: on this regard that's very unhealthy because we shouldn't create

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Speaker 1: incentives for people to see themselves as ill, right, but

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Speaker 1: that's what's happening, right, to catastrophize everything. And the rest

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Speaker 1: of it is that luky On often Hight wrote about

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Speaker 1: so brilliantly. But yeah, it makes perfect sense. You can't

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Speaker 1: portray all this stuff is catastrophic and murderous. And then

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Speaker 1: somebody says, how are you, and you say, I'm fine,

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Speaker 1: it's good. I got a really interesting class. In fact,

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Speaker 1: I gotta get across campus. So no, you gotta portray

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Speaker 1: yourself is so terribly wounded that you can barely function.

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Speaker 1: It's just God, it's so pathetic. And listen, it's not

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Speaker 1: like I fought at the Battle of the Bulge or

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Speaker 1: anything like that. But we're so glorifying victimhood and softness.

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Speaker 1: It's just I don't I don't know. I don't know

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Speaker 1: where we go from here. Will will the real world

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Speaker 1: slap these people in the face and and and dissuade

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Speaker 1: them like it does many of us from our youthful ideas. Uh,

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Speaker 1: that will work for many of them. But remember again,

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Speaker 1: we're only tink about a very small number of people.

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Speaker 1: My concern is it goes the other way that this.

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Speaker 1: A couple of these people just have to get that.

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Speaker 1: They'll come into firms, uh media companies, social media companies,

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Speaker 1: and they will they will say that if you're giving

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Speaker 1: me any negative feedback, you know, you're you're triggering my

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Speaker 1: Posterman express or whatever it is, or you're you're further

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Speaker 1: modginalizing the etcetera, etcetera. And they'll weaponize harassment law, discrimination law,

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Speaker 1: that sort of formal things in place. They've already done

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Speaker 1: that on campus. They I mean, much of the terrible

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Speaker 1: policy changes were because of title line. So they can

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Speaker 1: do the same exxact thing even if there's only four

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Speaker 1: of them, and they'll make life miserable for for everyone else.

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Speaker 1: And that's what I'm quite concerned about, right right, If

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Speaker 1: that happens, that could be a problem for everybody. But

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Speaker 1: for now, it's you know, it's mostly confined to a

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Speaker 1: college campus, and so I can just laugh at it

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Speaker 1: from the outside unless it turns violent. Then then it's

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Speaker 1: not funny. What's the likelihood that, you know, people are

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Speaker 1: serious about this enough that they're they're willing to hurt

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Speaker 1: people there. I mean, there's there's been some violence, luckily

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Speaker 1: blessedly rare so far. I mean, most of the kind

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Speaker 1: of far lefter ideological violence is coming out of like

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Speaker 1: Portland right now, which is not even necessarily connected to

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Speaker 1: a to a campus. I think the broader concern, apart

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Speaker 1: from violence is is the amount of people who are

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Speaker 1: self censoring on campus, including the faculty, including like left

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Speaker 1: to center faculty there terrifying. You know they're on the left,

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Speaker 1: but they know they'll they don't know, you know what

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Speaker 1: the kids think. They think slightly different things that they

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Speaker 1: want to use, slightly different words, and they're afraid they

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Speaker 1: say the wrong thing in class. They will there will

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Speaker 1: be a there will be a complaint against them by

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Speaker 1: their student. Quicker than you can snap your fingers. It's

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Speaker 1: happening every day, and that is a that is a

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Speaker 1: really dramatic and frightening change to absolutely. I have a

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Speaker 1: professor friend who retired earlier than he planned on just

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Speaker 1: because he just, you know, I just didn't want to

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Speaker 1: deal with all this stuff. Well, and yeah, I've talked

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Speaker 1: to a college instructor and and the point he made

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Speaker 1: to me was that, you know, the first time this happens,

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Speaker 1: you've got a fair amount of enthusiasm for fighting it

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Speaker 1: and standing up for what's right and you're right to

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Speaker 1: teach and blah blah blah. But like the third time,

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Speaker 1: you start to think, you know, what the hell with it,

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Speaker 1: I'm just not going to trigger these little dip ships.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna get through my my day and finish my career.

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Speaker 1: It's just it wears you down. But hey, Robbie, So

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Speaker 1: the premise of the book is you actually sat down

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Speaker 1: with a bunch of college type radicals and and ask

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Speaker 1: them skeptically, skeptically but respectfully. You know what they think,

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Speaker 1: what they want. Tell us about some of the people

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Speaker 1: you met. Yeah, you know, I talked to people at protests,

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Speaker 1: UM who were trying to shut down conservaive speakers who

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Speaker 1: like Charles Murray, Ben Shapiro, etcetera. UM, And you know,

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Speaker 1: they're interesting people. I'm interested in what they have to say.

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Speaker 1: You know, not all of them, you know, want violence

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Speaker 1: the first time they hear someone disagrees with them, but

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Speaker 1: they do. Many of them have this broader conception of

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Speaker 1: what safety entails. Very much speaking to a height lucian

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Speaker 1: a worldview. They're saying that, uh, that safety includes you know,

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Speaker 1: my ability to walk outside my house and feel affirmed

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Speaker 1: wherever I go, and and and that's a much much

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Speaker 1: broader conception safety. And therefore it is necessary and and

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Speaker 1: justified to stop your speech if your speech is going

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Speaker 1: to make someone that I'm sympathetic to feel uncomfortable or

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Speaker 1: emotionally compromised or harmed because they're their mental well being

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Speaker 1: is a component of their safety just as much as

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Speaker 1: their physical safety is. So you, so we are justified

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Speaker 1: in censorship on those grounds. That's I think that's the

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Speaker 1: new idea that is driving so much of what we're

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Speaker 1: seeing over the last few years. It was not always

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Speaker 1: like that, and I hope hopefully will not always be

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Speaker 1: like that in the future, but that is the thinking

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Speaker 1: of a certain subset of student radical uh and justifying

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Speaker 1: their actives. Well, who do they feel like you ought

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Speaker 1: to make the decision of what is okay speech and

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Speaker 1: what is not? And since a lot of these people

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Speaker 1: are smart, how do how do they not understand? Well,

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Speaker 1: if you're going to give that power to somebody, at

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Speaker 1: some point, they might turn it on you. They don't

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Speaker 1: even understand that there's no there's no legal regime to

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Speaker 1: police that. I mean, they're there. I've talked to me.

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Speaker 1: Lu said, well, I just want you know the campuses

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Speaker 1: hate speech policy to reflect the federal laws about hate speech.

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Speaker 1: And I said, okay, it already does. Your campus doesn't

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Speaker 1: have one, And there's no federal law prohibiting it. The

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Speaker 1: the the ultimate authority on on that is the First Amendment.

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Speaker 1: This spremportant has made it abundantly clear there is no

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Speaker 1: hate speech exception. But they are not even well educated

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Speaker 1: up about about that very basic fact about the First Amendment.

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Speaker 1: So of course they're not going to understand the more

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Speaker 1: complicated arguments for why it would be very fraught to

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Speaker 1: give this power to some authority that they don't know

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Speaker 1: that we've already had just debate over and over again

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Speaker 1: and the highest judicial authorities no, no speech infringement. That's bad.

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Speaker 1: Haven't they read anything about the cultural revolution in China

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Speaker 1: and they realize that the rules can change very quickly,

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Speaker 1: and all of a sudden you're on the wrong side

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Speaker 1: of it. I mean, most people don't even know what

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Speaker 1: the freedoms protected by the First Amendment are. And that's

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Speaker 1: not not that's what I'm not just beating up on

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Speaker 1: young people. That's like most people in general. They don't

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Speaker 1: think as much about policy ideas and law and government, etcetera.

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Speaker 1: They're not particularly informed. And that's fine as long as

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Speaker 1: we're not making decisions for each other people others lives.

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Speaker 1: When you know then when we're giving too much power

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Speaker 1: to government deciding you know who's going to get crushed

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Speaker 1: by it, that's when that starts to come back to

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Speaker 1: bite you. Robbie, you might be amused by this. My

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Speaker 1: twenty year old soon to be twenty year old college

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Speaker 1: student daughter is a hoot. She's hilarious and and a

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Speaker 1: good solid liverty are in she uh. She gave me

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Speaker 1: a screen capture of a tweet she saw this guy says,

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Speaker 1: you know your your Second Amendment activists, I'm gonna become

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Speaker 1: a Third Amendment activist and I'm gonna go wherever there

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Speaker 1: are troops, and I'm just gonna start yelling there's no

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Speaker 1: way you're staying in my house. And her caption of

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Speaker 1: me was best Daddy Daughter night ever. Let's do this

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Speaker 1: the famous joke that a Third Amendment Defense Center celebrates,

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Speaker 1: you know, two year of victory. That's hilarious. Oh man,

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Speaker 1: that's beautiful. That's beautiful. Hey, listen, I want to talk

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Speaker 1: just a little bit about your your career, um, because

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Speaker 1: there are a couple of things you busted open that

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Speaker 1: we're very very well known, and people not might not

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Speaker 1: understand that you're kind of at the epicenter. The first

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Speaker 1: one was that infamous Rolling Stone hoax article about sexual

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Speaker 1: assault at the University of virgin UM. Right, yeah, we're

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Speaker 1: coming up on five years of that since that actually,

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Speaker 1: uh this this fall give give us the some nail

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Speaker 1: sketch you how that went for you? How you became

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Speaker 1: interested in that sort of thing? Sure, you know, this

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Speaker 1: was this horrific story of gang sexual assault at University

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Speaker 1: of Virginia. This young woman student, they're lured upstairs by

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Speaker 1: the man she was on a date with and you know,

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Speaker 1: ritualistically assaulted by twelve fraternity brothers um and this you know,

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Speaker 1: the story made huge waves, you know, the culture of

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Speaker 1: of sexual abuse on campuses, thattera, etcetera. I quickly became

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Speaker 1: skeptical of it, as did many others. But I was

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Speaker 1: one of the first to write an article expressing grave

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Speaker 1: reservations about some of the reporting in it. And then

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Speaker 1: it soon turned out that the reporting in it was

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Speaker 1: was terrible, was was flawed in every way. Not only

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Speaker 1: did this not happen, the the man whom she said

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Speaker 1: she was on a date with does not exist, and

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Speaker 1: she had not been asked to give his name to

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Speaker 1: the reporter, so they really really the editorial process at

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Speaker 1: Rolling Stone Magazine. It was just abominable. How it what

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Speaker 1: a bad job they did, and they were eventually successfully suited.

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Speaker 1: And I'm very skeptical of libel suits in general, but

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Speaker 1: they absolutely deserved to lose this one for for what

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Speaker 1: a bad job they did. So that was a Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that was one of my early kind of career triumphs.

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Speaker 1: And then you also got involved in the whole Catholic

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Speaker 1: high school students at the Lincoln Memorial the stair down

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Speaker 1: with the Native American activists and all, which was one

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Speaker 1: of the most incredible, shocking, yet not surprising heard attacks

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Speaker 1: by the American media I've ever witnessed. Yes, Yes, it

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Speaker 1: was incredible. Yeah, I I As I was sitting down

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Speaker 1: to write about it, I saw that there was longer

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Speaker 1: video footage available. It was actually footage from this third group,

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Speaker 1: this black nationalist cults, the Hebrew Is relied to whom

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Speaker 1: I've encountered in DC before. They're whack of dustuff at people.

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Speaker 1: They're utterly crazy. And you know, they had been harassing

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Speaker 1: these kids for like an hour. The kid hadn't really

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Speaker 1: done anything, certainly nothing bad in in response, and then

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Speaker 1: this Native American man completely misrepresented the situation to the media,

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Speaker 1: saying that the boys were aggressors, are about to be

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Speaker 1: some aggressors, and he was disrupting them, but they he

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Speaker 1: invaded their thing. What they were doing. What they were

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Speaker 1: doing was perfectly fine. So anyway, the media, as you

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Speaker 1: well know, got this story just completely backward. Many back down,

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Speaker 1: you know, said Okay, well here's the rest of the

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Speaker 1: footage that was fine. Others you know, doubled down, and

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Speaker 1: we're like, well, these kids have to be bad, right,

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Speaker 1: what other stuff can we dig up about them? You know, Well,

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Speaker 1: some wanted a basketball game for this high school, you know,

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Speaker 1: six years ago. They wore they were they were painted black,

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Speaker 1: So they're racists. So, you know, connected up crazy stuff

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Speaker 1: talking about children. Yeah, and so similar to my question

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Speaker 1: about the college campus stuff, where I think, don't don't

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Speaker 1: these people worry that at some point the arbitraers of

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Speaker 1: what's right or wrong could turn it against me. It's

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Speaker 1: similar with the journalism stuff. Okay, so so many journalistic

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Speaker 1: outlets hate Trump or anybody might be a Trump supporter,

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Speaker 1: so they're allowing all kinds of bad journalism to slide. Well,

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Speaker 1: that's gonna get turned on you at some point, you

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Speaker 1: either have to have standard for this or not. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: especially when it's you know, a lot of the actually

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Speaker 1: edited reporting in the papers is awesome, quite good, But

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Speaker 1: then the social media presence of these people is just

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Speaker 1: they just reveal their biases and their sort of sympathy

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Speaker 1: for the activists, and they're just reacting to the news

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Speaker 1: and it's not going through an editor if it's just

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Speaker 1: your tweets obviously, so a lot of the shoddy work

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Speaker 1: is done there. But again when there and you know,

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Speaker 1: now we have the power to record everything everyone's doing

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Speaker 1: at all times, there's a there's a and everything everyone

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Speaker 1: says is transcribed because it's in text. So you have

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Speaker 1: a situation where young people are growing up in a

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Speaker 1: world where everything they do and say can be you know,

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Speaker 1: dug up to just destroy them. So that takes a

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Speaker 1: responsible media to say, some of these stories, okay, this

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Speaker 1: does not involve a public person. There's no reason for

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Speaker 1: us to to thrust these people, even if they are

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Speaker 1: doing something wrong, onto a national spotlight because their kids

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Speaker 1: and they're not public figures. So that's gonna be on

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Speaker 1: the media to show more responsibility and not saying oh,

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Speaker 1: this is oh, this is gonna really you know, make

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Speaker 1: Trump people look embarrassed. So we gotta write about it anyway.

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Speaker 1: That's gonna take some responsibility, some humility on their part

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Speaker 1: to stave off a lot of the kind of anti

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Speaker 1: journalist sentiments you have right now. Some of it justified,

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Speaker 1: some of it not. Um, but that's uh, that's you know,

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Speaker 1: they could they could do a better job and mute

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Speaker 1: some of those criticisms. So we're kind of dancing around

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Speaker 1: the term canceled culture. But there are so many examples

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Speaker 1: of various people losing shows, losing gigs, losing teaching spots,

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Speaker 1: whatever for uh, you know, saying something irresponsible currently or

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Speaker 1: years ago or or whatever. And I know you've been

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Speaker 1: writing recently about you know, you're dislike a canceled culture

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Speaker 1: from either side. Various professors who said something wha could

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Speaker 1: do left wingy a few years ago, and they happen

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Speaker 1: to teach in places like Alabama. Um, you could say

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Speaker 1: anything you wanted in California and get away with it

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Speaker 1: on the left side. But so is there a standard

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Speaker 1: where I mean, if if if I Joe Getty, we're

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Speaker 1: teaching some college policide class and I uh, and it

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Speaker 1: came out that three years ago, I tweeted, I'm in

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Speaker 1: favor of the systematic uh murder of I don't know Presbyterians. Now,

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Speaker 1: would that make me so crazy? You'd be okay with

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Speaker 1: people handed me hound me out of my job? How

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Speaker 1: do you approach that? Uh? No, I'd still be defending

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Speaker 1: the right to say that. I probably the only one

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Speaker 1: would just me. But I take such a as well.

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Speaker 1: In particularly if you're at a public university campus. Um,

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Speaker 1: you know you, I mean, that's kind of settled law, right,

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Speaker 1: you do have that. There are guarantees in place for you,

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Speaker 1: academic freedom guarantees. So unless it's unless you violated some

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Speaker 1: policy that is very carefully worded to get around that,

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Speaker 1: or if you know, if there's some you know, if

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Speaker 1: there's some evidence that you're biased against your Presbyterian students,

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Speaker 1: and you know, if you had said something like that,

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Speaker 1: and you know, maybe it would be justified to look into,

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Speaker 1: you know, whether you're giving Presbyterian students dead grades or

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Speaker 1: something other than that. No, I'm gonna well and then

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Speaker 1: they can get rid of you, but or they can

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Speaker 1: thanks to you or something. But no, I'm I'm and

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Speaker 1: a lot of but a lot of these are not

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Speaker 1: as clear cut as that. It's it's remarks being chopped

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Speaker 1: up and mischaracterized. Oftentimes it's not as um bad as

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Speaker 1: it seemed. Uh, it's it's and it's and it's for

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Speaker 1: bad faith purposes on both sides. You know, it's these

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Speaker 1: are these are angry people on social media looking to

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Speaker 1: destroy people, often for for unjustified reasons, or for reasons

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Speaker 1: that are not as justified as as the you know,

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Speaker 1: as the out of context comments. I mean, so much

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Speaker 1: of this, again has targeted young people, has targeted teenagers

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Speaker 1: who maybe said, you know, they said something racially problematic

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Speaker 1: or homophobic or something, you know, when they were like eleven,

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Speaker 1: and we're going to find that and we're going to

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Speaker 1: try to ruin their career prospects over it, which I

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Speaker 1: just think is is odious, is truly odious to do

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Speaker 1: you talking about how it's a tiny minority of these people,

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Speaker 1: they just happened to be very loud and they're they're

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Speaker 1: scaring us all to to to react to this reminds

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Speaker 1: me of the Dave Chappelle Netflix special coming out. It's

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Speaker 1: incredibly politically incorrect. The critics they had review it were

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Speaker 1: almost against it. The public was almost in favor of it,

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Speaker 1: which goes to show you that the the average person

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Speaker 1: out there doesn't have the same view of this sort

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Speaker 1: of stuff as well. The tiny minority. Yes exactly, it

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Speaker 1: was fantastic. I watched it twice um and that goes

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Speaker 1: to show you that, you know, when we're talking about

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Speaker 1: wokeness and the demands of progressive culture, we're talking about

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Speaker 1: you know, highly tend to be very wealthy, very privileged,

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Speaker 1: co still elites who think they represent more people than

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Speaker 1: they actually do. I mean, this is, you know nothing.

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Speaker 1: Something that shows how clear this is is Joe Biden's

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Speaker 1: continued success in the Democratic Party, which is not actually

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Speaker 1: surprising if you talk to anyone who's like a Democrat

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Speaker 1: in the vast swath of the country, you know, because

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Speaker 1: they're moderate, they're older, some are religious. The the the

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Speaker 1: people I know in like left of center media, who

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Speaker 1: are in media institutions, campuses, etcetera. They hate Biden and

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Speaker 1: they're utterly dumbfounded that anyone could like him. But that

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Speaker 1: so that just storts coverage of it and makes it

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Speaker 1: seem like there's more progressive than they are. But they're

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Speaker 1: just they're just not the people who just sent from

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Speaker 1: this even in like the left or the liberals are

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Speaker 1: are not well represented in loud, powerful institutions. Yeah, that

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Speaker 1: that tiny minority of people that that that that have

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00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:55,200
Speaker 1: those views of they they think they represent more people.

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00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:57,280
Speaker 1: There's that part of it. And then there's the even

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00:22:57,520 --> 00:23:02,040
Speaker 1: worst portion of it of um. They feel like if if,

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00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:06,560
Speaker 1: for instance, I find Chappelle funny, are found that those

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00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:10,280
Speaker 1: jokes funny, that I should and really somebody should be

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00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:12,760
Speaker 1: in charge of making sure I don't see that sort

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00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:14,600
Speaker 1: of stuff because I don't, you know, I don't know

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00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:18,280
Speaker 1: my own good. Um that that condescending, sort of patronizing

435
00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:21,320
Speaker 1: view of it is even he's more maddening to me. Well,

436
00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:24,159
Speaker 1: and Chappelle, you know, Chappelle was good and bold and

437
00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:28,719
Speaker 1: transgressive when he was criticizing the right or taking right

438
00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:32,760
Speaker 1: of course, and then he's evil and backward and hunting

439
00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:36,720
Speaker 1: down and reaction Aaron when he's when he's making fun

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00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:39,280
Speaker 1: of things. The left believes and and they have they

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00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:42,080
Speaker 1: have just they have been especially with this with the

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00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:46,000
Speaker 1: recent Chappelle thing. They made that pretty clear that it's, yes,

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00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:48,520
Speaker 1: it's going to be a hypocritical double standard, but that's

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00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:52,639
Speaker 1: what we actually believe. Robbie, great to chat with you,

445
00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:55,400
Speaker 1: really wish you well on the book, Panic Attack Young

446
00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:57,800
Speaker 1: Radicals in the Age of Trump. Definitely worth a read.

447
00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:00,280
Speaker 1: And hey, let's not make this last time. Let's talk again.

448
00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:04,200
Speaker 1: My pleasure anytime. The way to go, nice job. Can

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00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:09,440
Speaker 1: it get any nuttier? When you've got Michigan State teaching

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00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:12,439
Speaker 1: the the student leaders on campus, do not use the

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00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:15,119
Speaker 1: phrase no problem because that might lead somebody to believe

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00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:17,200
Speaker 1: that they could be a problem. I mean, you can

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00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:19,960
Speaker 1: you you can't get any crazier than that. That is,

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00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:23,200
Speaker 1: it reminds me of the approach you'd make with somebody

455
00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:26,760
Speaker 1: who is profoundly mentally ill. I mean that you had

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00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:31,040
Speaker 1: to be so incredibly careful about what you said that listen,

457
00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:37,359
Speaker 1: don't mention mice. It's like what I can't say, but

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00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:42,119
Speaker 1: it's cold, but it's gonna be a good football game. No, no, no, no,

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00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:45,639
Speaker 1: it's cold and it's going to be a good No,

460
00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:50,920
Speaker 1: don't say but oh kidding me. God, you gotta call

461
00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:53,879
Speaker 1: these people out for how crazy they are and have

462
00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:56,520
Speaker 1: have the confidence to say I'm not what you're saying

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00:24:56,560 --> 00:24:59,879
Speaker 1: I am. Each year, I'm nut and you know, just

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00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:04,280
Speaker 1: call them out, although you know you're some beleaguered college professor.

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00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:07,520
Speaker 1: I get it. After a while, you think I don't

466
00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:10,920
Speaker 1: need this headache. I'm getting close to retirement or these

467
00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:15,479
Speaker 1: these dip ships that their parents don't care if they

468
00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:18,520
Speaker 1: learn anything. The administration doesn't care if they learn anything.

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00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:21,800
Speaker 1: I don't care if they learn anything. I'm beat whatever,

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00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:23,720
Speaker 1: So I don't know