WEBVTT - Sami Sage 0:00:00.250 --> 0:00:03.290 The following episode will be discussing themes of sexual assault. 0:00:03.790 --> 0:00:05.750 If you or anyone you know is a victim of 0:00:05.809 --> 0:00:10.310 sexual assault or abuse, call RAINN's Sexual Assault Hotline at 1-800-656-HOPE. 0:00:10.340 --> 0:00:10.610 That's 1-800-656-4673. 0:00:10.640 --> 0:00:12.340 Hey everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to Work in Progress. 0:00:32.510 --> 0:00:34.190 Welcome back to Work in Progress, friends. 0:00:34.229 --> 0:00:37.070 We are one week away from the midterm elections, and 0:00:37.110 --> 0:00:40.349 for a lot of people, the hardest part isn't deciding 0:00:40.450 --> 0:00:43.590 how to vote. It's figuring out how to stay informed 0:00:43.630 --> 0:00:47.570 without getting completely overwhelmed by the news, the noise, and 0:00:47.630 --> 0:00:51.950 the non-stop political cycle that feels more like a cage 0:00:52.010 --> 0:00:53.090 match than anything else. 0:00:53.790 --> 0:00:54.450 But here's the thing. 0:00:55.050 --> 0:00:58.210 We have to remember, nobody has to become a political 0:00:58.270 --> 0:01:02.870 junkie or an activist to have political power. No matter 0:01:03.010 --> 0:01:06.270 where you are on the scale of participation in your 0:01:06.310 --> 0:01:10.240 personal life, you can start by understanding what's on your ballot, 0:01:10.700 --> 0:01:13.760 knowing what matters to you, and talking to people you trust. 0:01:14.500 --> 0:01:15.600 And nobody knows. 0:01:15.459 --> 0:01:17.240 This better than Sammy Sage. 0:01:17.700 --> 0:01:21.100 She is the co-founder and chief brand officer of Betches Media, 0:01:21.540 --> 0:01:24.640 an award-winning podcast host, and the New York Times bestselling 0:01:24.740 --> 0:01:28.850 author of Democracy in Retrograde. She has spent years at 0:01:28.870 --> 0:01:32.089 the intersection of politics, pop culture, media, and the internet, 0:01:32.670 --> 0:01:36.610 And Sammy understands how information spreads, who people trust, and 0:01:36.690 --> 0:01:39.990 what actually makes us all pay attention. So as we 0:01:40.110 --> 0:01:42.690 head into these midterms, I want to break it all 0:01:42.730 --> 0:01:47.090 down with Sammy. Why these elections matter, how to navigate misinformation, 0:01:47.510 --> 0:01:51.090 and why the political power of women should not be underestimated. 0:01:51.110 --> 0:01:53.810 I think we've all been reminded of that in the 0:01:53.850 --> 0:01:57.150 last month in particular. And then I'm going to ask 0:01:57.190 --> 0:02:00.550 her some questions past November 3rd. Because no matter what 0:02:00.590 --> 0:02:03.620 happens on election day, The work of being an engaged 0:02:03.800 --> 0:02:07.040 citizen and a good neighbor doesn't end when the votes 0:02:07.140 --> 0:02:07.660 are counted. 0:02:08.240 --> 0:02:16.150 Let's dive in with Sammy Sage. Sammy, welcome to the show. 0:02:16.440 --> 0:02:19.609 You are one of my favorite people to do things with, 0:02:19.650 --> 0:02:22.209 whether it's like go to a party, go to a march, 0:02:22.330 --> 0:02:25.750 talk about politics, have a cocktail. Anytime I see you 0:02:25.870 --> 0:02:27.770 in a room, I'm always really relieved and I know 0:02:27.830 --> 0:02:31.560 I'm in the right place. And I wanted that energy 0:02:31.660 --> 0:02:35.030 for the show because we're going into the midterms. Everyone 0:02:35.090 --> 0:02:39.090 is overwhelmed. The occupier of the Oval Office is a criminal. 0:02:39.550 --> 0:02:42.650 And I think people know we need change, but also 0:02:42.710 --> 0:02:46.010 feel scared about how to get there. So thank you 0:02:46.050 --> 0:02:48.130 for bringing your expertise. We need you. 0:02:48.150 --> 0:02:51.260 I am so happy to be here. Thank you. 0:02:52.040 --> 0:02:57.060 Look, I can't promise any solutions. I think that we 0:02:57.080 --> 0:03:01.720 are like, honestly, I can promise that I can provide 0:03:01.750 --> 0:03:05.590 empathy and we're all in this together. But that is really, 0:03:05.650 --> 0:03:09.430 I think, what my, you know, my feeling has been 0:03:09.470 --> 0:03:13.690 now because people are so overwhelmed. And I just like 0:03:13.730 --> 0:03:16.110 wish I could help like lower expectations that we're going 0:03:16.150 --> 0:03:20.480 to solve every problem or even come close. But the 0:03:20.540 --> 0:03:24.000 more people who are in this together, like our experience 0:03:24.060 --> 0:03:25.540 of it can be better. 0:03:25.560 --> 0:03:25.640 Yeah. 0:03:26.440 --> 0:03:28.120 Yeah, yeah, I feel that. 0:03:28.780 --> 0:03:30.820 And it's really interesting, you know, when you say it's 0:03:30.880 --> 0:03:35.260 hard to solve everything, the thing I think about is 0:03:35.720 --> 0:03:40.750 progress really is generational. It takes a long time to 0:03:41.070 --> 0:03:44.390 pass good bills and to solve for problems. And I 0:03:44.470 --> 0:03:47.670 think sometimes we forget about what it's taken because we 0:03:47.710 --> 0:03:49.820 live in the world of that we live in now 0:03:49.840 --> 0:03:52.520 and we look around and there's so much industry and 0:03:53.220 --> 0:03:55.780 I'm looking out my window and I see a nature 0:03:55.820 --> 0:03:59.440 reserve and also apartment buildings and a train that does 0:03:59.540 --> 0:04:02.900 public transit. We forget that these are the results of 0:04:03.060 --> 0:04:09.630 generations of investment in this community project that is a nation. 0:04:10.450 --> 0:04:15.130 And I think the speed with which destruction happens We 0:04:15.170 --> 0:04:17.640 have to understand as much faster. I think about it, 0:04:18.190 --> 0:04:19.969 you know, when you see a building get knocked down. 0:04:19.990 --> 0:04:21.740 It doesn't take long to knock it down, but it 0:04:21.770 --> 0:04:23.000 can take years to build it. 0:04:23.320 --> 0:04:24.270 And the country's like that too. 0:04:24.279 --> 0:04:25.300 Like the East Wing, for example? 0:04:25.900 --> 0:04:28.640 I can't, I'm still, I just, it makes me sick 0:04:28.700 --> 0:04:30.700 when I see those photos and it's gone. 0:04:31.839 --> 0:04:32.560 It's wild. 0:04:32.660 --> 0:04:35.800 I mean, all of DC, I haven't been there in 0:04:35.820 --> 0:04:39.599 a while, but it's transformed. I mean, he has really 0:04:39.640 --> 0:04:44.750 made his mark on the Capitol and- In some way, 0:04:45.029 --> 0:04:48.690 it makes it– I think in the future, it'll make 0:04:48.730 --> 0:04:52.200 it easier to really call the end of it because 0:04:52.240 --> 0:04:54.780 you can take all of that down and it can 0:04:54.820 --> 0:04:57.080 be a meaningful symbol. 0:04:57.920 --> 0:05:00.320 But I don't know. What kind of freak wants to 0:05:00.339 --> 0:05:01.580 live on a construction site? 0:05:02.740 --> 0:05:05.520 It's also just a very weird choice to take down 0:05:05.580 --> 0:05:08.380 a historic part of the people's house. 0:05:08.420 --> 0:05:10.990 It's not his house. Well, he thinks it is. 0:05:12.020 --> 0:05:16.020 Jackie Kennedy's rose garden, to cut down the cherry trees, 0:05:16.740 --> 0:05:24.550 to literally destroy decades of legacy for the property itself. 0:05:24.790 --> 0:05:30.030 Things that, again, belong to us, not him. It's a 0:05:30.170 --> 0:05:34.500 really surreal thing to think. And I don't know, it 0:05:34.560 --> 0:05:36.960 makes me feel emotional for the times I've been there 0:05:37.020 --> 0:05:40.220 for good work. in my adult life. And honestly, it 0:05:40.260 --> 0:05:42.480 makes me a little emotional for the things I grew 0:05:42.560 --> 0:05:45.100 up looking up to, you know, because even as a 0:05:45.120 --> 0:05:49.990 little kid, you study American history, you begin to understand 0:05:50.130 --> 0:05:52.650 things before you get into the complexity of, you know, 0:05:52.690 --> 0:05:56.340 systemic oppression and the ugly parts of our history that 0:05:56.360 --> 0:05:59.380 you have to learn alongside the really inspiring and amazing ones. 0:06:00.160 --> 0:06:02.719 It's, it's such a. 0:06:04.390 --> 0:06:07.220 The imagery of the white house is so nostalgic. And 0:06:07.240 --> 0:06:09.279 I think about how nostalgic it felt to me when 0:06:09.300 --> 0:06:12.700 I was a little kid, when you were little, did 0:06:12.760 --> 0:06:14.320 you look up to that? 0:06:15.400 --> 0:06:18.110 Oh yeah. Oh, completely. 0:06:18.130 --> 0:06:21.950 I grew up in a family that was very like 0:06:23.110 --> 0:06:27.609 news aware, politically focused. My mom took me to the 0:06:27.650 --> 0:06:33.529 voting booth like every year. Um, And yeah, it was meaningful. 0:06:33.930 --> 0:06:37.110 I remember my grandmother told me to write a letter 0:06:37.210 --> 0:06:39.230 to the president who was Bill Clinton when I was 0:06:39.290 --> 0:06:43.390 in third grade or something. And I specifically remember writing, 0:06:44.050 --> 0:06:45.650 can you make it so there are no more guns 0:06:45.750 --> 0:06:46.440 and bombs? 0:06:47.270 --> 0:06:49.840 LOL. Obviously, we have not. 0:06:51.320 --> 0:06:56.020 Gotten to that point. But I think, yeah, I completely 0:06:56.080 --> 0:06:59.140 agree with you. I think that this destruction of symbolism 0:06:59.600 --> 0:07:03.989 is really important to him. Even more so than the laws, 0:07:04.070 --> 0:07:08.140 which he has, you know, the real workhorses doing behind 0:07:08.180 --> 0:07:11.200 the scenes, like your Russell Vogt and your Stephen Miller. 0:07:12.080 --> 0:07:15.920 But I think that I see the president's a predator. 0:07:16.140 --> 0:07:19.960 He's like a dog peeing on everything. 0:07:19.980 --> 0:07:23.840 And he... It's laitassez-moi. 0:07:24.080 --> 0:07:27.350 Like, there's no idea of the people's house. There's no 0:07:27.430 --> 0:07:31.470 idea that the money that we pay in taxes is 0:07:31.590 --> 0:07:35.480 public money not to be weaponized by him and his 0:07:35.780 --> 0:07:36.600 dumb sons. 0:07:37.760 --> 0:07:40.700 And I think that bigger picture. 0:07:42.020 --> 0:07:45.420 one of the most destructive mindsets that we have in 0:07:45.440 --> 0:07:48.820 America right now is this idea of like, because I can, like, 0:07:48.900 --> 0:07:49.740 why do you do something? 0:07:49.840 --> 0:07:53.920 Because I can. It's like, there has to be some level. 0:07:53.720 --> 0:08:01.920 Of personal respect and restraint and sentimentality. Like, I really 0:08:01.980 --> 0:08:07.320 feel that he has opened up this portal into like 0:08:07.360 --> 0:08:11.660 the American soul where people don't see other people as 0:08:11.720 --> 0:08:12.480 real people. 0:08:12.560 --> 0:08:13.940 No one's real to each other. 0:08:14.580 --> 0:08:19.920 Obviously, this is exacerbated by social media, but that real 0:08:20.020 --> 0:08:24.650 human value of life, it seems to have really fallen 0:08:24.690 --> 0:08:25.470 by the wayside. 0:08:25.490 --> 0:08:28.770 I think about this with COVID a lot. We never 0:08:28.830 --> 0:08:29.510 had any national. 0:08:31.510 --> 0:08:32.010 Morning. 0:08:32.090 --> 0:08:34.349 Like I feel the closest thing we had during that 0:08:34.390 --> 0:08:36.370 was in New York City when people would bang their 0:08:36.410 --> 0:08:38.030 pots and pans at 7 p.m. 0:08:38.100 --> 0:08:38.530 Every night. 0:08:38.550 --> 0:08:42.840 Like, but there was no, you know, we called nurses 0:08:42.880 --> 0:08:45.559 and doctors essential workers, but like we don't treat them 0:08:45.620 --> 0:08:50.680 like essential workers. And it just, it just feels like 0:08:51.320 --> 0:08:54.020 Logan Roy would say, we are not serious people. 0:08:54.559 --> 0:08:58.910 We're not a serious country. And it's very sad. 0:08:59.470 --> 0:09:06.290 And I'm hoping that generationally things can shift, as it does. 0:09:06.390 --> 0:09:07.980 Things do shift over time. 0:09:09.000 --> 0:09:09.630 I hope so. 0:09:09.700 --> 0:09:12.380 I mean, I think to your point, this because I 0:09:12.460 --> 0:09:17.440 can energy, it's like, it's this idea of American exceptionalism 0:09:17.600 --> 0:09:22.840 gone sour. You know, if it spoils like spoiled milk, 0:09:22.920 --> 0:09:25.660 it goes from being a treat to something that will 0:09:25.720 --> 0:09:28.040 poison you. And I think we're in this sort of 0:09:28.140 --> 0:09:33.140 collective moment of going, oh yeah, this has really gone 0:09:33.500 --> 0:09:38.610 too far. You know, patriotism to me means loving your country, 0:09:38.890 --> 0:09:44.210 not yourself in it. It means caring about your neighbors. 0:09:44.309 --> 0:09:47.849 It means, you know, being a good person. And I 0:09:47.970 --> 0:09:54.840 think people got so fatigued with hardship that has been 0:09:54.920 --> 0:09:58.770 designed to over these last decades by a system that's 0:09:58.809 --> 0:10:01.520 been rigged ever more in the favor of the ultra 0:10:01.559 --> 0:10:05.300 wealth class and they were convinced that it was being 0:10:05.420 --> 0:10:09.600 rigged by their neighbors and And I think we are finally, hopefully, 0:10:09.640 --> 0:10:12.319 in a moment where people realize that none of that 0:10:12.400 --> 0:10:15.260 is true. An immigrant didn't take your job. A trans 0:10:15.280 --> 0:10:17.480 kid isn't the reason you can't go to the doctor. 0:10:17.500 --> 0:10:21.100 You know, a gay couple is not the reason that 0:10:21.200 --> 0:10:23.700 you're having a hard time at home. None of that 0:10:23.780 --> 0:10:27.880 is real. And what is real is that we live 0:10:27.920 --> 0:10:32.400 in a world that is giving away the spoils of everyone. 0:10:32.920 --> 0:10:36.059 to the people that already have far more than their 0:10:36.100 --> 0:10:39.720 fair share. They, they are literally taking, they're not earning, 0:10:39.760 --> 0:10:42.790 they're taking. And then when you see the scale they're 0:10:42.809 --> 0:10:44.689 willing to go to, I mean, even when you mentioned 0:10:44.710 --> 0:10:48.069 the president and his sons, you know, they, they invested 0:10:48.130 --> 0:10:51.490 in drone companies and then we launched a war. People 0:10:51.550 --> 0:10:53.770 can't afford to feed their families and put gas in 0:10:53.809 --> 0:10:57.050 their cars, but the president's family is making money on 0:10:57.070 --> 0:11:00.020 the drones we're sending to a war that was never 0:11:00.120 --> 0:11:02.140 even approved by Congress. 0:11:02.240 --> 0:11:04.230 It's like, We've lost the plot. 0:11:04.410 --> 0:11:07.270 And they still won't even pay for their own wedding. 0:11:07.290 --> 0:11:10.890 I don't know. The oligarchs in Russia are doing that. 0:11:11.370 --> 0:11:15.449 But I fear that on the one sense, or I 0:11:15.470 --> 0:11:17.689 guess on the one hand, I feel like it's really 0:11:17.730 --> 0:11:20.030 important to know the facts and be educated because then 0:11:20.070 --> 0:11:22.530 you can do something about them. And on the other hand, 0:11:22.590 --> 0:11:26.390 I understand that the level of crazy we're living through 0:11:26.570 --> 0:11:30.160 is giving people a lot of fatigue. So I'm curious 0:11:30.220 --> 0:11:34.060 how you encourage people as, you know, a media expert, 0:11:34.420 --> 0:11:37.550 as a person who does so much political communication and 0:11:37.730 --> 0:11:39.730 also does it in a fun way for young women. 0:11:39.750 --> 0:11:45.350 You know, how do you help people stay more engaged 0:11:45.490 --> 0:11:48.760 instead of become less engaged due to the overwhelm? 0:11:49.960 --> 0:11:55.060 So there's a few things. One is sometimes it's just. 0:11:54.960 --> 0:11:58.820 Not there for you. And be easy and compassionate on yourself. 0:11:58.840 --> 0:12:02.430 You're not going to strong arm people into caring about 0:12:02.490 --> 0:12:03.690 something or. 0:12:05.350 --> 0:12:06.309 Volunteering, whatever. 0:12:07.170 --> 0:12:10.230 But something you said earlier about how we're not thinking 0:12:10.290 --> 0:12:14.740 about America as what we can give to the country. 0:12:14.920 --> 0:12:18.970 We're thinking about taking something that was really like the 0:12:19.030 --> 0:12:22.590 seed of inspiration behind my last book, Democracy in Retrograde, 0:12:22.630 --> 0:12:25.540 which I wrote with Emily Amick, aka Emily in your phone, 0:12:26.300 --> 0:12:29.099 was this idea that we have so much self-help in 0:12:29.140 --> 0:12:32.380 this country. Like you, there's how to be a mother, 0:12:32.400 --> 0:12:35.620 how to be a, you know, a wife, how to 0:12:35.640 --> 0:12:37.329 be a career lady. 0:12:37.429 --> 0:12:38.200 Like, you know what it is? 0:12:38.210 --> 0:12:41.530 Like you could find self-help for almost anything, but you 0:12:41.670 --> 0:12:45.730 really don't see self-help for the role of like a citizen, right? 0:12:46.230 --> 0:12:46.770 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 0:13:08.330 --> 0:13:11.290 Like we said at the beginning, like you aren't going 0:13:11.309 --> 0:13:13.770 to solve every problem. But the way I think about 0:13:13.790 --> 0:13:16.600 it is like every person is like a thread in 0:13:16.630 --> 0:13:19.660 the fabric of America. And like you have to find 0:13:19.760 --> 0:13:24.300 your thread in the way that makes sense for you. 0:13:24.400 --> 0:13:28.040 And so Democracy in Retrograde is basically a self-help book. 0:13:28.420 --> 0:13:32.070 It has exercises in it, but it's supposed to teach 0:13:32.130 --> 0:13:34.370 you how to get in touch with your own values 0:13:34.750 --> 0:13:37.610 so that you can figure out how you want to 0:13:37.650 --> 0:13:42.450 be Engage in your community throughout your lifetime. Like doing 0:13:42.490 --> 0:13:46.320 something that you're good at matches your personality. There's literally 0:13:46.360 --> 0:13:50.490 a personality quiz in the book. that doing something that 0:13:50.650 --> 0:13:53.429 interests you, that you care about, that is like appropriate 0:13:53.450 --> 0:13:55.589 for your season of life. You know, if you just 0:13:55.630 --> 0:13:58.270 had a baby, you're probably not like running a soup 0:13:58.290 --> 0:14:01.910 kitchen today, you know? But what I think is people 0:14:01.950 --> 0:14:06.589 need to like really bring their ambitions down to a 0:14:06.610 --> 0:14:10.770 place where there's possibility and you will find fulfillment in 0:14:10.820 --> 0:14:14.280 that and you will find your people in that. And 0:14:15.280 --> 0:14:18.520 so for me, like you said, like, like I love to, 0:14:18.860 --> 0:14:21.900 talk about like current events and talk about it in 0:14:21.940 --> 0:14:24.440 like a light. I mean, it can't really ever be light, 0:14:24.480 --> 0:14:27.180 but talking about it in a way that's like real 0:14:27.300 --> 0:14:28.500 and non detached. 0:14:30.370 --> 0:14:32.110 And so that's always. 0:14:31.850 --> 0:14:36.750 Been, you know, something that I connect with and everyone 0:14:36.790 --> 0:14:40.710 has their own thing. And I also think it like 0:14:41.090 --> 0:14:43.810 helps build your own sense of self and value so 0:14:43.850 --> 0:14:47.530 that when you see all this stuff online, that's like just, 0:14:48.420 --> 0:14:54.640 confusing intentionally, you don't have to be as floored by it, basically. 0:14:55.300 --> 0:14:55.580 Yeah. 0:14:56.320 --> 0:14:59.660 Yeah, I like that. How do you think about that, though? 0:14:59.710 --> 0:15:03.610 Because the internet makes people feel, on the one side 0:15:03.630 --> 0:15:07.830 of the scale, overwhelmed, and on the other, sometimes replaces 0:15:08.970 --> 0:15:14.229 in-person participation or activism. You know, yes, it's important to 0:15:14.270 --> 0:15:20.590 make noise. I But it's also really important to get 0:15:20.750 --> 0:15:23.770 out and lend a hand, you know, to show up somewhere, 0:15:23.790 --> 0:15:26.990 to be in a room and be in community with 0:15:27.070 --> 0:15:30.430 other people. And I fear that if we're doing just 0:15:30.470 --> 0:15:32.790 too much of it online, we're actually just, you know, 0:15:32.850 --> 0:15:35.070 staying in our little bubbles and we're staying in our homes. 0:15:36.190 --> 0:15:41.860 You've spent your whole career watching the internet change and 0:15:41.920 --> 0:15:45.760 change the way people get information. So I'm curious what 0:15:45.800 --> 0:15:50.920 you think about how the balance of power changing from 0:15:51.080 --> 0:15:56.610 traditional news organizations and politicians to creators and these other 0:15:56.730 --> 0:16:00.609 audiences being able, yes, to get and provide more information, 0:16:00.650 --> 0:16:04.710 but also create a hell of a lot of disinformation. Like, 0:16:05.620 --> 0:16:07.840 how do you encourage people to make sense. 0:16:07.560 --> 0:16:09.540 Of it and figure out what they can trust? 0:16:11.040 --> 0:16:13.750 I can't really encourage people to make sense of it 0:16:14.070 --> 0:16:17.210 as much as like, I know that I can provide 0:16:17.230 --> 0:16:21.330 a space to try to help people do it. And 0:16:21.350 --> 0:16:26.150 I think what, what makes me so annoyed in this 0:16:26.210 --> 0:16:30.150 time is that like, I know so many amazing people 0:16:30.190 --> 0:16:34.070 who are doing incredible work and the names you hear 0:16:34.230 --> 0:16:36.270 and the people who make the biggest waves in the 0:16:36.330 --> 0:16:39.830 creator space or an online who draw and things that 0:16:39.850 --> 0:16:49.490 drive the conversation. are homogenous and or inorganic manufactured conversations. 0:16:50.230 --> 0:16:58.280 And there are so many funny women, people, smart experts 0:16:58.760 --> 0:17:01.920 online that like, that's where I'm getting my information. 0:17:01.960 --> 0:17:03.320 That's like who's in my feed. 0:17:04.020 --> 0:17:09.120 But it's so disappointing because I feel that so much 0:17:09.220 --> 0:17:14.130 of the toxicity comes from like the underlying incentives, which 0:17:14.310 --> 0:17:20.700 also relates back to the tech guys. It is a 0:17:20.760 --> 0:17:27.800 situation where the algorithms are driven by favoring anger and falsehoods. 0:17:28.520 --> 0:17:30.660 I think part of the problem with the creator industry 0:17:31.060 --> 0:17:32.680 are the financial incentives. 0:17:33.119 --> 0:17:33.600 Well, yeah. 0:17:34.000 --> 0:17:36.220 I mean, look at all the tradwives. that are now 0:17:36.280 --> 0:17:38.180 leaving the movement. And they're like, oh yeah, we made 0:17:38.220 --> 0:17:40.740 a ton of money. And we realized we got paid 0:17:40.760 --> 0:17:43.560 all this money by groups that are run by super 0:17:43.619 --> 0:17:47.320 conservative men that hate us. And now we've propped up 0:17:47.380 --> 0:17:51.860 their talking points and we're losing our audiences and we're 0:17:51.900 --> 0:17:55.740 all fucked. And I'm like, babes could have told you that, 0:17:56.440 --> 0:18:00.140 but you get lost in the sauce, especially when you 0:18:00.180 --> 0:18:03.350 do become the breadwinner in your family or it does 0:18:03.400 --> 0:18:07.109 begin to change your life. And it's like, To be 0:18:07.190 --> 0:18:10.570 able to zoom out and understand what an op so. 0:18:10.430 --> 0:18:11.830 Much of this is. 0:18:11.850 --> 0:18:15.070 And it's like part of the reason you don't see 0:18:15.210 --> 0:18:19.590 major audience growth or major money being made by people 0:18:19.630 --> 0:18:21.620 who have things to say that are good for you 0:18:21.630 --> 0:18:24.619 is they're not being funded by people who make money 0:18:24.720 --> 0:18:26.699 off of policies that are bad for you. 0:18:27.380 --> 0:18:31.220 So I think you can't really overstate like that. 0:18:31.320 --> 0:18:32.780 And it's the kind of. 0:18:32.770 --> 0:18:36.630 Thing that you can't see unless you are doing the opposite, 0:18:36.890 --> 0:18:40.150 which was like this weird circumstance that I'm in. And 0:18:40.250 --> 0:18:42.909 it's allowed me to see like, what can you just 0:18:42.930 --> 0:18:43.869 like opt out of? 0:18:44.590 --> 0:18:47.190 What do I just not? I just like willingness to 0:18:47.230 --> 0:18:49.609 shut the fuck up is so valuable. 0:18:50.630 --> 0:18:52.930 Yeah. I mean, it really, really is. 0:18:53.490 --> 0:18:56.730 And then to your point, Being able to know when 0:18:56.750 --> 0:19:01.150 your voice has so much power is, I think, simultaneously valuable. 0:19:01.260 --> 0:19:04.659 I think it's important to be able to discern between 0:19:04.700 --> 0:19:08.639 the two. You know, I, and I've made no secret 0:19:08.660 --> 0:19:10.679 of this. I've been told for years if I was 0:19:10.760 --> 0:19:14.790 quote unquote less political, I would work so much more. 0:19:15.140 --> 0:19:18.050 That's how I feel. I'm like, I'm like, okay, like, 0:19:18.109 --> 0:19:23.040 so I'll like, What? Yeah. Also, you're dangling a hypothetical 0:19:23.060 --> 0:19:23.540 in front of me. 0:19:23.980 --> 0:19:24.180 Right. 0:19:24.240 --> 0:19:28.460 Right now, I know what I feel about this today. 0:19:28.480 --> 0:19:29.000 Yes. 0:19:29.180 --> 0:19:32.750 You're telling me that I could theoretically work more for 0:19:33.810 --> 0:19:34.450 people who. 0:19:34.770 --> 0:19:37.790 Don't agree with– who won't work with me because of 0:19:38.090 --> 0:19:38.869 who I am today? 0:19:38.890 --> 0:19:38.970 Yeah. 0:19:39.030 --> 0:19:41.170 Why would I live that way? 0:19:41.730 --> 0:19:41.950 Yeah. 0:19:41.970 --> 0:19:46.020 It's a very strange– it's a strange sort of proposition 0:19:46.080 --> 0:19:47.900 that they put forth to a lot of people. 0:19:48.560 --> 0:19:52.740 But also I realized that I can make that decision 0:19:52.800 --> 0:19:57.740 because I don't need to chase that money. Like because I've, 0:19:57.869 --> 0:20:01.369 and that is, I think the, the, you know, and 0:20:01.430 --> 0:20:04.130 so we're lucky in that way. 0:20:04.390 --> 0:20:07.310 And that's the thing to be clear. Like I'm privileged 0:20:07.369 --> 0:20:10.020 enough to do what I love for a living. Is 0:20:10.080 --> 0:20:14.380 it hard to, you know, be a contract worker? Like, 0:20:14.500 --> 0:20:18.370 of course, because when you don't have stability, no matter 0:20:18.440 --> 0:20:21.459 what your life might look like from the outside, you 0:20:21.510 --> 0:20:25.810 have a lot of stress around planning. But also the 0:20:25.869 --> 0:20:29.850 carrot you're talking about, like the sort of idea of, oh, well, 0:20:29.890 --> 0:20:30.790 there would be more. 0:20:30.810 --> 0:20:34.450 I'm like, but for what? Like my goal is not 0:20:34.490 --> 0:20:36.530 to be a person who owns a private jet. I 0:20:36.570 --> 0:20:38.310 don't want that. I don't need that. 0:20:39.280 --> 0:20:44.280 I don't have a desire to be someone who lives 0:20:44.940 --> 0:20:48.479 so detached from the people around me that I can't 0:20:49.140 --> 0:20:51.720 advocate for them when I advocate for me. 0:20:52.660 --> 0:20:53.820 It's just not my goal. 0:20:54.000 --> 0:20:57.860 And I understand that money has become a god for 0:20:57.900 --> 0:21:00.340 a lot of people. And it's also easy to say 0:21:00.400 --> 0:21:03.270 that it doesn't rule your life when you aren't making 0:21:03.310 --> 0:21:05.390 a choice between, like, do I feed my kids today 0:21:05.470 --> 0:21:09.750 or put gas in my car? But I feel like societally, 0:21:09.830 --> 0:21:12.750 we got to figure out how to pull it back 0:21:13.230 --> 0:21:16.800 a little bit from some people have enough money that 0:21:16.840 --> 0:21:20.260 they want to colonize other planets and most people can't 0:21:20.300 --> 0:21:24.460 pay their bills. Like that can't be the scale that 0:21:24.600 --> 0:21:25.500 we live in. 0:21:25.780 --> 0:21:29.119 It just cannot. And so I think. 0:21:30.450 --> 0:21:34.960 Figuring out how to advocate for others is, you know, 0:21:35.380 --> 0:21:38.040 that's one of the things that tells me there's plenty 0:21:38.080 --> 0:21:40.850 of things I might want to say or feel for myself, 0:21:40.920 --> 0:21:44.070 but I shut the fuck up a lot, despite what people. 0:21:43.890 --> 0:21:44.650 Think, I'm sure. 0:21:44.670 --> 0:21:45.350 Right. 0:21:45.369 --> 0:21:47.370 They don't know the time you're not saying anything. They 0:21:47.410 --> 0:21:48.330 have no idea. 0:21:48.369 --> 0:21:51.850 And my God, I'm silent a lot. But they have no, 0:21:52.070 --> 0:21:54.550 you know, but I will talk a lot and perhaps 0:21:54.670 --> 0:22:01.690 ad nauseum about us, about community, about neighborhoods, about healthcare, 0:22:01.830 --> 0:22:06.560 about SNAP benefits, about things that benefit us. And I 0:22:06.710 --> 0:22:11.080 think you see the power of that kind of choice 0:22:11.160 --> 0:22:13.000 to behave for the collective. 0:22:13.600 --> 0:22:15.120 You see when that works. 0:22:15.460 --> 0:22:21.200 We've seen it with this breaking story at Cornell, not 0:22:21.280 --> 0:22:25.500 only reopening that investigation because of public outcry over the 0:22:25.560 --> 0:22:28.780 horrors that a student was made to endure there, but 0:22:29.840 --> 0:22:33.600 So many other campuses, women all over this country are 0:22:33.619 --> 0:22:36.320 being honest about what's happened to them and how they've been. 0:22:36.200 --> 0:22:37.719 Dismissed by their universities. 0:22:38.200 --> 0:22:42.100 The student at LSU whose rapist was found to have 0:22:42.200 --> 0:22:44.480 raped her, and they said, but he's a football player, 0:22:44.500 --> 0:22:46.060 so we're going to keep him on the football team. 0:22:46.500 --> 0:22:49.970 Like, what? That stems from money. Yes. That's money. 0:22:50.290 --> 0:22:53.150 That's a school that makes that money their god, you know? 0:22:54.530 --> 0:22:55.850 All of these women, Katie. 0:22:55.609 --> 0:22:59.270 Couric shared a bunch of things, you know, individual women's 0:22:59.350 --> 0:23:01.490 stories in this kind of slideshow that just made me 0:23:01.510 --> 0:23:06.580 want to sob. And I think something so overtly wrong 0:23:06.660 --> 0:23:10.850 has made everyone choose to use their voices collectively to say, 0:23:11.290 --> 0:23:13.770 we cannot continue to live in a world that devalues 0:23:13.810 --> 0:23:16.680 women this way. And that's the kind of thing I'm 0:23:16.760 --> 0:23:19.500 excited to see the internet doing together. 0:23:19.880 --> 0:23:22.580 That's for all of us. Not just the women, by 0:23:22.619 --> 0:23:23.720 the way. It's for the men, too. 0:23:24.080 --> 0:23:25.689 Yeah. I mean, we're talking. 0:23:25.710 --> 0:23:30.030 This whole thing really gets me, obviously, up in arms. 0:23:30.050 --> 0:23:30.810 You went to Cornell. 0:23:31.310 --> 0:23:32.270 I did go to Cornell. 0:23:32.390 --> 0:23:35.890 And I've... basically when this, when this came out or when, 0:23:36.109 --> 0:23:41.310 after the sun released these guys names, I was like, okay, 0:23:41.410 --> 0:23:43.830 is anyone, what's anyone going to do? And I kept 0:23:43.990 --> 0:23:46.750 seeing it going more viral. And at first I was like, okay, 0:23:46.890 --> 0:23:49.620 obviously I'm seeing this. Like I went there, but then 0:23:49.650 --> 0:23:52.140 I realized like, I am seeing more stories from people 0:23:52.160 --> 0:23:55.300 who have no affiliation to Cornell. Like as I'm reading it, 0:23:55.340 --> 0:23:57.379 I'm like, oh, this isn't a Cornell person. This is 0:23:57.460 --> 0:24:00.300 like somebody at this, they went to some somewhere else 0:24:00.340 --> 0:24:06.119 or they're What I think is so egregious here, and 0:24:06.140 --> 0:24:09.580 this is like my real point about Cornell, we can talk, 0:24:09.600 --> 0:24:11.659 like I don't really care to talk about like the 0:24:11.720 --> 0:24:15.020 criminal standard these guys are being held to or like 0:24:15.340 --> 0:24:17.479 they were, I don't care about the threesome, I don't 0:24:17.520 --> 0:24:18.420 care about the ketamine. 0:24:19.040 --> 0:24:21.720 When people see that an Ivy League school. 0:24:22.040 --> 0:24:27.260 Is going to provide quarter for men who the whole 0:24:27.340 --> 0:24:30.920 campus knows was involved in what they are, you could 0:24:30.960 --> 0:24:36.550 colloquially call a gang rape, Yes. They are saying actually 0:24:36.710 --> 0:24:41.230 anything less than that, less quote unquote than that, and 0:24:41.470 --> 0:24:45.670 or that's missing as solid evidence as a Snapchat that 0:24:45.690 --> 0:24:47.260 says free seat. 0:24:48.300 --> 0:24:49.980 And by the way, that hours later. 0:24:50.000 --> 0:24:51.360 Oh, yeah. 0:24:51.400 --> 0:24:53.939 Hours later, is the shop still open? 0:24:54.680 --> 0:24:54.900 Right. 0:24:55.000 --> 0:24:57.660 As though she was a place to go and not 0:24:57.700 --> 0:24:59.409 a person. Like, come on. 0:24:59.670 --> 0:25:02.260 I mean, to me, that just undermines the consent of 0:25:02.300 --> 0:25:02.540 it all. 0:25:02.580 --> 0:25:05.800 Because like, if she was consenting, she'd have sent that message. Like, 0:25:06.260 --> 0:25:07.500 you know. 0:25:08.320 --> 0:25:11.140 If that were really consent, that would come from her, 0:25:11.260 --> 0:25:12.820 not from those guys. 0:25:12.900 --> 0:25:15.360 So it's like, if you are. 0:25:15.300 --> 0:25:19.260 Saying that that is okay, you can keep these men 0:25:19.300 --> 0:25:23.880 at your school, anything, anywhere, in any situation that is like, 0:25:23.980 --> 0:25:27.780 quote unquote, less than that, you will probably get away 0:25:27.820 --> 0:25:31.410 with And you can probably stay at school. If anyone 0:25:31.450 --> 0:25:33.810 had this on their record coming from high. 0:25:33.690 --> 0:25:35.690 School, the school would not admit them. 0:25:36.270 --> 0:25:36.410 No. 0:25:36.450 --> 0:25:39.090 So why are you allowing. 0:25:38.609 --> 0:25:41.300 People, why are you allowing your campus to be a 0:25:41.390 --> 0:25:45.260 safe space for people to engage in conduct way below 0:25:45.300 --> 0:25:47.720 the standard of what you're willing to admit? 0:25:48.100 --> 0:25:50.459 And not even in an academic sense, in like a 0:25:51.040 --> 0:25:52.119 physical sense. 0:25:52.320 --> 0:25:54.460 Moral, ethical, human. 0:25:54.480 --> 0:25:55.730 Yeah. it's illegal. 0:25:55.869 --> 0:25:59.570 Like I understand if like you're misogynists or, or you 0:25:59.590 --> 0:26:00.830 can't like police. 0:26:00.490 --> 0:26:02.750 Misogyny at a frat boys. Like that's not going to. 0:26:02.750 --> 0:26:06.750 Happen, but you can make them really afraid of getting 0:26:06.790 --> 0:26:11.730 in trouble because they're, they're, they're not developmentally like, you know, 0:26:11.790 --> 0:26:14.590 even if they were like the nicest, the nicest frat 0:26:14.630 --> 0:26:19.150 boys around, like they're not developmentally there and they do 0:26:19.230 --> 0:26:23.400 need a sense of punishment. And we have been, You know, 0:26:23.420 --> 0:26:24.440 we have a prison system. 0:26:24.460 --> 0:26:27.720 Like, why are they not subject to this? Yeah. Yeah. 0:26:27.850 --> 0:26:32.090 Well, because they're privileged and because they're men. And I 0:26:32.130 --> 0:26:35.090 think what I find a real issue with, too, is 0:26:35.130 --> 0:26:37.710 this notion that a woman has to be a perfect 0:26:37.750 --> 0:26:42.790 victim to be believed. I don't care if she wanted 0:26:42.830 --> 0:26:46.470 to drink and if her and two other people, this 0:26:46.510 --> 0:26:50.090 is all being alleged, by the way, you know, allegedly 0:26:50.150 --> 0:26:51.450 they agreed to have a threesome. 0:26:51.730 --> 0:26:51.830 Okay. 0:26:51.850 --> 0:26:51.990 Okay. 0:26:52.530 --> 0:26:55.429 They're college kids. They should be able to do whatever 0:26:55.470 --> 0:26:58.090 the fuck they want. I don't care. 0:26:58.109 --> 0:27:01.889 That is not just because. And by the way, if 0:27:01.970 --> 0:27:06.380 she agreed, they agreed. If she agreed, if she had 0:27:06.420 --> 0:27:11.700 to agree to supposedly, allegedly have a threesome, she was asked. 0:27:12.359 --> 0:27:13.980 So if you have such a problem. 0:27:13.590 --> 0:27:16.909 With the sexual act, why aren't you offended by the 0:27:16.950 --> 0:27:17.949 boys who asked her? 0:27:18.920 --> 0:27:21.280 Why aren't you offended that they're so crass? 0:27:21.760 --> 0:27:24.920 Why aren't you offended that they convinced her that might 0:27:24.960 --> 0:27:27.619 be a fun experience for the three of them? I 0:27:27.680 --> 0:27:30.740 don't care if she agreed to that. That's not the 0:27:30.770 --> 0:27:33.990 same thing as agreeing to being gang raped by potentially 0:27:33.990 --> 0:27:34.850 57 men. 0:27:35.210 --> 0:27:36.230 It's just not the same. 0:27:36.250 --> 0:27:39.390 And this is part of what we talk about. Even 0:27:39.690 --> 0:27:41.230 if they were in the middle of something, if it 0:27:41.270 --> 0:27:43.910 was her and one other guy, if it's anyone listening 0:27:43.930 --> 0:27:46.210 and it's you and another person and you get uncomfortable 0:27:46.250 --> 0:27:46.550 and say. 0:27:46.950 --> 0:27:49.359 I want to stop. I don't want to do this anymore. 0:27:50.080 --> 0:27:53.080 You have the right to stop at any time. And 0:27:53.140 --> 0:27:56.090 if someone says, well, you've already started, so you can't 0:27:56.130 --> 0:27:59.970 stop me now, that's rape. I don't care if that's 0:28:00.050 --> 0:28:00.869 heavy to hear. 0:28:02.450 --> 0:28:04.969 We've lost the plot on what this stuff means. 0:28:05.109 --> 0:28:08.460 And I will never forget the last time one of 0:28:08.500 --> 0:28:12.419 these things went viral, a guy tweeting something, I'm paraphrasing, 0:28:12.460 --> 0:28:15.330 basically saying, oh, well, you know, if every guy who's 0:28:15.369 --> 0:28:17.730 ever gotten a girl super wasted and then had sex 0:28:17.750 --> 0:28:19.870 with her is a rapist, then every guy is a rapist. 0:28:20.410 --> 0:28:22.650 And someone responded right below it and was like, you're 0:28:22.750 --> 0:28:23.850 so close to getting it. 0:28:24.530 --> 0:28:24.810 Yeah. 0:28:25.010 --> 0:28:27.850 Because that is what that is. That is actually what 0:28:27.910 --> 0:28:28.330 that is. 0:28:28.450 --> 0:28:31.090 And I think we've, they think it's got to be 0:28:31.130 --> 0:28:33.710 this like, she got hit over the head and dragged 0:28:33.770 --> 0:28:35.190 in a back alley and whatever. 0:28:35.250 --> 0:28:37.550 And it's like, no, we've lost. 0:28:37.290 --> 0:28:40.390 The plot and they don't even get it because to 0:28:40.430 --> 0:28:43.490 your point, full circle, they've. 0:28:43.270 --> 0:28:46.770 Been allowed by all these institutions and systems. 0:28:47.590 --> 0:28:51.490 Also, this is not a criminal trial. She is suing 0:28:51.510 --> 0:28:55.590 the school for negligence and she's suing the individuals for negligence. 0:28:57.110 --> 0:28:59.430 I don't even think she would have filed this lawsuit 0:28:59.550 --> 0:29:02.040 if the school hadn't handled it how they handled it. 0:29:02.470 --> 0:29:04.690 Agreed. She wouldn't have been forced to. 0:29:05.130 --> 0:29:08.020 Right. And like, I think that the point is the 0:29:08.140 --> 0:29:09.080 school needs. 0:29:08.920 --> 0:29:12.140 To be a little more afraid of of this kind 0:29:12.160 --> 0:29:15.300 of situation, again, even if it's only because they are 0:29:15.320 --> 0:29:20.680 a business and a brand. And it's like, to that point, 0:29:20.720 --> 0:29:23.160 I think they actually have an opportunity. Like the term 0:29:23.200 --> 0:29:27.970 sexual harassment came out of Cornell. I studied industrial labor 0:29:28.070 --> 0:29:30.950 at their industrial labor relations school. And I spent probably 0:29:31.030 --> 0:29:35.530 half a semester learning about harassment, gender discrimination, sex discrimination, 0:29:35.990 --> 0:29:38.630 all of these things. And so like, if you're really 0:29:38.650 --> 0:29:42.940 this pioneering research university, then you actually have an opportunity 0:29:43.000 --> 0:29:45.120 to test out a new paradigm. 0:29:45.800 --> 0:29:50.010 There has to be something where the severity of it 0:29:50.190 --> 0:29:52.690 and the PTSD that it causes, which by the way, 0:29:52.750 --> 0:29:55.770 for our friends at home, more women who've been sexually 0:29:55.830 --> 0:29:59.100 assaulted have PTSD than veterans who've seen combat in war. 0:29:59.940 --> 0:30:03.890 And I think a really poignant piece of the conversation 0:30:03.930 --> 0:30:06.150 people are having now is if a group of women 0:30:06.710 --> 0:30:10.350 finds a man incapacitated, they take care of him and 0:30:10.370 --> 0:30:11.270 get him to safety. 0:30:11.650 --> 0:30:12.880 They don't sexually assault him. 0:30:13.390 --> 0:30:14.900 The worst thing they'll do is draw a dick on 0:30:14.940 --> 0:30:17.100 his face, like literally. 0:30:17.120 --> 0:30:18.459 Yeah. Oh, shame. 0:30:18.960 --> 0:30:21.380 You know, I think we really have to figure out 0:30:21.500 --> 0:30:26.510 how to, how to make men behave like the caretakers 0:30:26.550 --> 0:30:29.870 they claim to be, but are clearly not, statistically not. 0:30:30.350 --> 0:30:34.740 Every person deserves to be at a school and feel safe. 0:30:35.440 --> 0:30:41.580 And it's not only about what happened. It's about how 0:30:41.600 --> 0:30:45.600 this institution handles it. And Americans, people are mad because 0:30:45.620 --> 0:30:48.540 they look at all these institutions, not just Cornell. 0:30:48.860 --> 0:30:49.700 Look at the government. 0:30:49.940 --> 0:30:54.080 You look at the church. You look at giant companies. 0:30:54.670 --> 0:30:59.730 And there's just this feeling of like, okay, no one cares. 0:30:59.790 --> 0:31:03.390 This type of thing is allowed to proliferate everywhere. And 0:31:03.450 --> 0:31:06.500 if it can proliferate at Cornell, it's proliferating at all 0:31:06.520 --> 0:31:10.780 the places that Cornell recruits to and the positions they're 0:31:10.820 --> 0:31:15.860 in later. And I just think that culture drives everything. 0:31:15.880 --> 0:31:20.650 And I'm hoping that we will have a pendulum swing soon. Yeah, 0:31:20.670 --> 0:31:20.920 me too. 0:31:20.950 --> 0:31:21.090 Yeah. 0:31:21.950 --> 0:31:23.850 We'll be back in just a minute after a few 0:31:23.910 --> 0:31:34.630 words from our favorite sponsors. To that point, people are 0:31:34.710 --> 0:31:40.590 exhausted because you just realize that the instinct of institutions 0:31:40.670 --> 0:31:44.290 is to cover instead of repair. With the church, you 0:31:44.330 --> 0:31:47.850 saw them, and I'm sure they're still doing it, moving 0:31:47.950 --> 0:31:51.980 all of these priests and deacons and people around Who 0:31:52.000 --> 0:31:57.280 they knew were assaulting kids because to say it in 0:31:57.340 --> 0:32:00.720 clean house would be too hard, quote unquote. You know, 0:32:00.780 --> 0:32:04.770 you see Cornell, the campus police took her statement. She 0:32:04.850 --> 0:32:08.430 said verbatim, I can say with 100 percent confidence that 0:32:08.490 --> 0:32:12.030 I was raped. And they never took it to actual 0:32:12.090 --> 0:32:16.670 law enforcement. They buried it. They covered instead of pursuing. 0:32:17.430 --> 0:32:20.120 And I think that's what people are tired of, whether 0:32:20.220 --> 0:32:26.840 it's in medicine, academia, faith, culture, you know, any institution. 0:32:26.920 --> 0:32:32.100 It's like, why are we covering instead of uncovering. 0:32:31.690 --> 0:32:33.229 And fixing things? 0:32:33.830 --> 0:32:37.450 And when you realize it's systemic, when you realize we're 51% 0:32:37.450 --> 0:32:39.530 of the population as women, we're not a niche, we're 0:32:39.590 --> 0:32:43.470 actually the majority by a slim, you know, 2%. But like, 0:32:44.050 --> 0:32:46.950 we're treated like a niche, we're treated like a problem 0:32:47.540 --> 0:32:52.180 instead of a co-equal branch of society. And when one 0:32:52.260 --> 0:32:56.980 in two women experiences sexual violence in her lifetime, like 0:32:57.440 --> 0:33:01.220 this is a literal epidemic and everybody kind of rolls 0:33:01.280 --> 0:33:04.750 their eyes and tells us to just Get along. 0:33:04.540 --> 0:33:05.260 To keep along. 0:33:05.500 --> 0:33:08.880 We just keep going forward and, like, not solving things. 0:33:09.180 --> 0:33:12.220 But imagine— okay, I think about this especially for women. We're 0:33:12.280 --> 0:33:15.560 so used to doing more with less. You know, I joke, 0:33:15.600 --> 0:33:17.550 but I actually mean it. Like, if you assigned the 0:33:17.610 --> 0:33:19.970 moms of the PTA, the government, shit would be fixed 0:33:20.010 --> 0:33:20.470 by lunch. 0:33:20.490 --> 0:33:22.630 You know, like, it just would. 0:33:22.650 --> 0:33:27.250 And I think about this— Yes, we can keep going, 0:33:27.290 --> 0:33:31.040 but imagine what we'd be achieving if we weren't continuously 0:33:31.600 --> 0:33:34.480 fighting the tide and the tide was going with us. 0:33:35.040 --> 0:33:36.660 And I will relate this. 0:33:36.720 --> 0:33:38.660 It might seem weird to our friends at home, but 0:33:38.680 --> 0:33:44.180 I promise it's not. Think about the Consumer Protection Bureau. Oh, 0:33:44.220 --> 0:33:46.800 I think about the Consumer Protection Bureau all the time. 0:33:47.160 --> 0:33:48.720 Like the dismantling of that. 0:33:49.390 --> 0:33:52.880 Companies don't do the right thing because they want to 0:33:52.900 --> 0:33:54.560 do the right thing. They do the right thing because 0:33:54.600 --> 0:33:56.340 it's the law. And if they break the law, they 0:33:56.360 --> 0:33:58.600 get caught and they have to pay you back. And 0:33:59.180 --> 0:34:02.940 we built a bureau that literally gave billions and billions 0:34:03.000 --> 0:34:06.560 and billions of our dollars that were wrongfully taken from 0:34:06.720 --> 0:34:10.319 us as the public back to us because companies were 0:34:10.360 --> 0:34:13.490 being shady and they were doing all sorts of shit 0:34:13.530 --> 0:34:16.009 they weren't allowed to do. And people were missing hidden 0:34:16.070 --> 0:34:19.109 fees and whatever, whatever. And we got our money back. 0:34:19.660 --> 0:34:21.600 And the current occupant of the Oval. 0:34:21.460 --> 0:34:25.620 Office dismantled the bureau that protects us. 0:34:25.980 --> 0:34:28.250 So now, not only were. 0:34:28.120 --> 0:34:30.799 You being stolen from and sometimes paid back, now you 0:34:30.820 --> 0:34:32.770 can just be stolen from all the time and nobody 0:34:32.810 --> 0:34:34.370 has to give you your money back, even though they 0:34:34.390 --> 0:34:38.390 broke the law. It's like, nobody does the right thing 0:34:38.590 --> 0:34:43.989 just because, statistically. You have to create a system and 0:34:44.030 --> 0:34:48.960 a system of punishment if you break the rules That 0:34:49.100 --> 0:34:52.279 actually forces protective measures to be implemented. 0:34:52.300 --> 0:34:54.260 And it's like, whether we're. 0:34:54.140 --> 0:34:58.370 Talking about the money you spend online or the workplace 0:34:58.570 --> 0:35:00.410 that you go to every day and whether or not 0:35:00.450 --> 0:35:03.350 it's safe for you or your university campus, like we 0:35:03.630 --> 0:35:05.710 have to have rules, which is why we have to 0:35:05.790 --> 0:35:07.379 elect sane people again. 0:35:07.960 --> 0:35:11.120 Because taking the regulations away, look at the food. All 0:35:11.140 --> 0:35:13.520 the food is poisoned now. Like, it's not working. 0:35:14.080 --> 0:35:16.640 But, Sophia, you know that they understand this because if 0:35:16.719 --> 0:35:19.140 you suggest that you want to defund the police or 0:35:19.180 --> 0:35:22.509 abolish the prison system, they would say no because you 0:35:22.550 --> 0:35:26.450 need some sort of incentive for bad behavior. 0:35:26.550 --> 0:35:30.250 You need a policing mechanism. So they get it. They know. 0:35:30.630 --> 0:35:33.140 They just don't want to have to pay for it. 0:35:33.610 --> 0:35:36.700 And to your point about, like, I actually think individuals, like, 0:35:37.920 --> 0:35:39.920 As an individual, we'll choose to do the right thing. 0:35:40.400 --> 0:35:42.440 More individuals will choose to do the right thing in 0:35:42.480 --> 0:35:43.260 a given situation. 0:35:43.340 --> 0:35:45.000 It's like if you're going to return a wallet or 0:35:45.100 --> 0:35:45.530 steal it. 0:35:45.960 --> 0:35:49.319 The organization will never do the right thing because of 0:35:49.430 --> 0:35:53.150 diffusion of responsibility, a bunch of things. But I have 0:35:53.170 --> 0:35:56.770 a separate reason why I'm obsessed with the Consumer Financial 0:35:56.790 --> 0:36:00.870 Protection Bureau. And obviously, I think what it did is amazing. 0:36:01.960 --> 0:36:05.040 But the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau is also one of 0:36:05.080 --> 0:36:08.760 the greatest examples of how sexism plays out in electoral 0:36:08.780 --> 0:36:12.120 politics because it was created by Elizabeth Warren. 0:36:12.440 --> 0:36:12.620 Yep. 0:36:12.900 --> 0:36:16.040 Who, as we know, in 2020, when she was running 0:36:16.080 --> 0:36:17.040 for president. 0:36:17.520 --> 0:36:20.390 Everyone's like, no, Elizabeth Warren's like a shill. She's boring. Like, 0:36:20.450 --> 0:36:21.190 let's get Bernie. 0:36:21.610 --> 0:36:26.650 Like, oh, he's been saying free healthcare, oligarchs, billionaires, millionaires, blah, blah, 0:36:26.670 --> 0:36:32.130 blah for years. Listen, Elizabeth Warren is Bernie who does something. 0:36:32.610 --> 0:36:39.380 She conjured up the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau from nothing. Like, 0:36:39.520 --> 0:36:42.339 she thought about it in her brain and pushed to 0:36:42.380 --> 0:36:43.779 invent it. Yes. 0:36:44.100 --> 0:36:49.530 So it's like she maybe couldn't get– universal healthcare while 0:36:49.570 --> 0:36:50.219 she was in the Senate. 0:36:50.320 --> 0:36:53.160 Neither could Bernie, by the way. But she tried to 0:36:53.239 --> 0:36:58.120 do things. She invented that out of whole cloth. 0:36:58.180 --> 0:37:00.360 No one was like, here, you go invent a bureau 0:37:00.420 --> 0:37:04.430 to protect consumers. Or you go do something that's going 0:37:04.450 --> 0:37:09.630 to be good. No one gave her money or a job. 0:37:09.910 --> 0:37:11.710 She just was like, here, we're doing this. This is 0:37:11.730 --> 0:37:15.219 my idea and made it exist. And so I just 0:37:15.280 --> 0:37:18.980 don't think that women, her in particular, everyone's like, she's 0:37:19.020 --> 0:37:19.540 a skull. 0:37:19.640 --> 0:37:20.700 She's like a librarian. 0:37:20.760 --> 0:37:24.410 It's like, okay, well, I want someone who can just 0:37:25.150 --> 0:37:26.670 invent solutions. 0:37:26.790 --> 0:37:29.290 I think that that's very valuable. Yes. 0:37:29.969 --> 0:37:32.710 We're a few days from midterms. I want to know 0:37:32.750 --> 0:37:33.610 what you think. 0:37:33.719 --> 0:37:37.279 What are the most effective and constructive conversations we can 0:37:37.300 --> 0:37:40.859 be having with people? Because to your point, we have 0:37:40.930 --> 0:37:44.630 a say in our future if we elect people who 0:37:44.650 --> 0:37:47.109 will prioritize us in the plans that they have for 0:37:47.130 --> 0:37:47.610 the future. 0:37:49.070 --> 0:37:52.170 So one thing I think cannot be under, cannot be 0:37:52.230 --> 0:37:54.390 overstated is the ability to like read the room in 0:37:54.410 --> 0:37:57.290 these conversations. Like what is your relationship with the person? 0:37:57.330 --> 0:38:00.310 What is your relationship to, what's their relationship to you? 0:38:00.330 --> 0:38:02.600 What do they care about? What do you care about? 0:38:02.640 --> 0:38:05.320 Like what's their context? Are you like their annoying friend 0:38:05.360 --> 0:38:07.560 who talks about this or like, are they coming to 0:38:07.600 --> 0:38:09.839 you for the conversation? Like, is there an opening? Like, 0:38:11.430 --> 0:38:13.950 so much of life is about reading the room. And 0:38:14.270 --> 0:38:18.489 it's like you talking to like someone who's adversarial with 0:38:18.530 --> 0:38:21.029 you about like something, you know, they're adversarial about like, 0:38:21.050 --> 0:38:24.100 that's like a waste of time. You talking to experts 0:38:24.600 --> 0:38:26.860 or other people who are interested in the same issue 0:38:27.020 --> 0:38:27.720 as you are. 0:38:28.100 --> 0:38:31.300 And trying to move the needle on one particular thing. 0:38:31.380 --> 0:38:32.580 That's a good use of your time. 0:38:32.940 --> 0:38:33.220 Yeah. 0:38:33.590 --> 0:38:35.190 Well, by the way, it's part of why I started 0:38:35.230 --> 0:38:38.270 this show. because I get to have conversations like this, 0:38:38.310 --> 0:38:40.350 but I get to have them for everyone at home 0:38:40.410 --> 0:38:43.169 who doesn't have your phone number. I get to have 0:38:43.210 --> 0:38:47.080 them for everyone at home who might want to understand 0:38:47.100 --> 0:38:50.340 a system or by the way, know how Ava DuVernay 0:38:50.380 --> 0:38:53.980 makes a movie or it's like, I get to essentially 0:38:54.000 --> 0:38:59.810 highlight all these different interesting avenues. So every single listener 0:38:59.850 --> 0:39:03.030 can find their thing. It is the privilege of my life. 0:39:03.150 --> 0:39:06.250 And it's like, It's part of the reason that around midterms, 0:39:06.350 --> 0:39:09.930 I really wanted us to have this conversation because I 0:39:10.050 --> 0:39:13.460 also want people to understand that all these things that 0:39:13.500 --> 0:39:17.060 we think just happen really are the result of policy 0:39:17.140 --> 0:39:20.419 and of who's in power, whether it's the school board 0:39:20.480 --> 0:39:25.690 at Cornell or the Senate we currently have. We have 0:39:25.710 --> 0:39:29.670 to shift who holds the power if we want to 0:39:29.750 --> 0:39:34.200 shift the outcomes that affect us all. I'm curious for you, 0:39:34.219 --> 0:39:39.239 like if there's somebody listening to this who knows voting 0:39:39.280 --> 0:39:41.290 is important, but it doesn't really think one vote can 0:39:41.330 --> 0:39:44.630 make a difference. What do you say to them on 0:39:44.690 --> 0:39:45.430 that subject? 0:39:45.950 --> 0:39:49.200 There have been dozens of elections that are decided by 0:39:49.800 --> 0:39:53.299 one to 10 votes. So like, yes, your vote does 0:39:53.480 --> 0:39:57.089 actually matter. But the other thing is like, okay, so 0:39:57.150 --> 0:39:59.190 don't vote. I actually had this fight with my mom 0:39:59.230 --> 0:40:01.540 a lot because she raised me to go to the 0:40:01.580 --> 0:40:04.420 voting booth every year. Then when I got to college, Cornell, 0:40:04.680 --> 0:40:06.420 I was like, Obama gets elected. 0:40:06.460 --> 0:40:08.620 I'm like, oh, it's all good. Nothing matters. 0:40:08.760 --> 0:40:11.089 And she'd be like, you have to send in your ballot. 0:40:11.110 --> 0:40:12.569 Like you have to vote. And I'd be like, well, 0:40:12.590 --> 0:40:15.529 it doesn't matter. The electoral college, what's the point? And 0:40:15.850 --> 0:40:18.850 she'd be like, it's not really about that. It's about 0:40:18.890 --> 0:40:21.090 the fact that like, this is such a privilege and 0:40:21.130 --> 0:40:23.390 you don't realize it because you've always had it. And 0:40:23.430 --> 0:40:28.239 because you like were born to a situation that you 0:40:28.260 --> 0:40:31.069 don't even like appreciate how good it is. The only 0:40:31.090 --> 0:40:34.209 person you're lying to or denying this privilege is you. 0:40:34.230 --> 0:40:35.050 Yeah. 0:40:35.650 --> 0:40:37.750 We'll be back in just a minute, but here's a 0:40:37.770 --> 0:40:38.750 word from our sponsors. 0:40:43.969 --> 0:40:48.230 I also think, to your point, sometimes when you feel 0:40:48.290 --> 0:40:51.129 a little helpless or like your vote doesn't matter, it's 0:40:51.170 --> 0:40:54.710 exactly when you need to know that that's the time 0:40:54.770 --> 0:40:59.120 it's most important. Because sure, in this midterm election, we 0:40:59.140 --> 0:41:01.840 don't get to change the president, but we can change 0:41:01.960 --> 0:41:04.859 everything else. If we show up in numbers, we can 0:41:04.900 --> 0:41:08.239 change everything else. And by the way, you know, who's 0:41:08.300 --> 0:41:11.560 elected as your congressperson or your senator will, of course, matter. 0:41:11.620 --> 0:41:14.160 But also who's on your school board is going to matter. 0:41:14.239 --> 0:41:18.950 Like these things shape your whole life in ways that, 0:41:19.150 --> 0:41:22.090 to your mom's point, for a while we were privileged 0:41:22.170 --> 0:41:24.580 enough to not have to think about. And now that 0:41:24.600 --> 0:41:26.759 we can't eat the blueberries and we don't know if 0:41:26.800 --> 0:41:31.680 the water is safe, what do you think staying engaged 0:41:32.450 --> 0:41:36.810 in the process, like being a citizen who participates in 0:41:36.830 --> 0:41:39.250 the place where you live, what does it look like 0:41:39.270 --> 0:41:44.089 when there isn't an upcoming election motivating you? Like, how 0:41:44.170 --> 0:41:48.549 do you stay engaged after the midterms and for the 0:41:48.610 --> 0:41:49.410 next two years? 0:41:50.210 --> 0:41:52.690 So I would actually invite people to think of the 0:41:52.730 --> 0:41:57.140 midterms and election years, like less as the time to 0:41:57.180 --> 0:42:01.399 be engaged, like less as like revolving your engagement around that. Look, 0:42:01.460 --> 0:42:03.359 if you're involved in your community in other ways, like 0:42:03.380 --> 0:42:05.880 you're naturally going to end up engaged at those times. 0:42:06.400 --> 0:42:08.180 And I think that part of the problem is like, 0:42:08.400 --> 0:42:10.779 it's this like, oh, right before the election, everyone's like 0:42:10.820 --> 0:42:14.180 jolted into paying attention, but it's like you, and that's what, 0:42:15.219 --> 0:42:17.750 that was really what the point of democracy and retrograde is. 0:42:17.810 --> 0:42:19.970 It's what can you connect to? 0:42:20.170 --> 0:42:22.509 Not because it's like a task you have to check 0:42:22.530 --> 0:42:25.900 off a list, but because you care about this, it's, 0:42:26.300 --> 0:42:28.440 you know, it's not an extracurricular for your resume. It's 0:42:28.460 --> 0:42:32.300 an extracurricular because you like it. I put a free 0:42:32.340 --> 0:42:35.589 little library in front of my house and it's like 0:42:36.310 --> 0:42:39.469 that costs money to put there and like put it, 0:42:39.550 --> 0:42:41.330 you know, and I put a bunch of books in 0:42:41.350 --> 0:42:43.589 and it's like, now it's like changing all the time. 0:42:43.630 --> 0:42:48.279 It's like, I don't, it's like doing things for your neighbors. And, 0:42:48.360 --> 0:42:49.900 you know, now it's like, oh, you're the family that 0:42:49.940 --> 0:42:53.690 has the library. It's like, just knowing your neighbors. And 0:42:53.830 --> 0:42:55.969 also I think part of that is like, there's so 0:42:56.030 --> 0:43:00.100 much division. And so when people talk about like, how 0:43:00.120 --> 0:43:02.480 do we bridge these divides? It's like, well, we need 0:43:02.500 --> 0:43:05.859 to stop bringing people together who are, who disagree only 0:43:05.900 --> 0:43:08.040 for the sake of bridging the divide. Cause you're basically 0:43:08.080 --> 0:43:10.450 bringing them together for a fight. Like this is a rumble, 0:43:10.969 --> 0:43:12.890 like intellectual, intellectual rumble. 0:43:13.610 --> 0:43:13.830 Yeah. 0:43:14.270 --> 0:43:18.880 However, if you are connected with people in other contexts, 0:43:19.280 --> 0:43:23.790 you play a sport together, you're in a Mahjong league, 0:43:23.810 --> 0:43:28.550 whatever it is, and you, someone who you totally disagree with, politically, 0:43:28.590 --> 0:43:31.430 whatever it is, if you have something to relate to 0:43:31.450 --> 0:43:33.260 them on where it's like, we have this in common, 0:43:33.300 --> 0:43:35.819 we know each other, we trust each other in some 0:43:35.880 --> 0:43:39.719 other way. When you do have a rupture or you 0:43:39.780 --> 0:43:43.660 do have a disagreement or you, someone says something that 0:43:43.719 --> 0:43:47.160 you find offensive or vice versa. Like you can actually 0:43:47.200 --> 0:43:50.950 have that conversation and learn from each other and like 0:43:51.510 --> 0:43:55.130 bring each other closer. Like, I don't mean literally, like 0:43:55.170 --> 0:43:57.770 it's not going to manifest on like, there's no chart, 0:43:57.890 --> 0:44:00.390 but like where it's going to like show, but we 0:44:00.450 --> 0:44:03.590 as a whole do not interact with each other enough. 0:44:03.739 --> 0:44:07.140 Like it's all behind the phone. There's no community building. 0:44:07.180 --> 0:44:11.660 People are like siloed so much. And like, that degrades 0:44:11.700 --> 0:44:14.180 trust or like the idea that anyone else who's different 0:44:14.200 --> 0:44:14.980 than you is a human. 0:44:15.500 --> 0:44:15.780 Yeah. 0:44:16.580 --> 0:44:18.779 And to that point with the Jane Doe case, I 0:44:18.880 --> 0:44:21.600 really hope no one ever finds anything about her because 0:44:21.640 --> 0:44:25.080 I think the fact that she's this like blank slate, 0:44:25.540 --> 0:44:29.550 nothing but like the facts of the case, like that 0:44:29.620 --> 0:44:32.069 is going to get her the justice she deserves more 0:44:32.130 --> 0:44:34.890 than if people are like, and she believes this and. 0:44:34.810 --> 0:44:37.770 She voted for this person. Like, I don't care who 0:44:37.810 --> 0:44:38.390 she voted for. 0:44:38.410 --> 0:44:39.209 I don't care. 0:44:39.290 --> 0:44:40.129 I don't want to ever. 0:44:40.760 --> 0:44:42.460 I don't care and I don't want to know. 0:44:43.080 --> 0:44:45.879 I think it's actually so important that we remember that 0:44:46.120 --> 0:44:50.759 every person is a multitude of experiences and beliefs and 0:44:50.780 --> 0:44:52.799 that those things can be changing all the time and 0:44:52.860 --> 0:44:55.750 people change all the time. And you're more than your, 0:44:56.810 --> 0:44:58.730 the worst thing that's ever happened to you, you're more 0:44:58.790 --> 0:45:01.770 than the moment you lost your temper, you're more than 0:45:01.810 --> 0:45:05.759 your greatest success. And like, we have to start to 0:45:05.820 --> 0:45:08.859 remember those things. And I mean, even when you talk 0:45:08.910 --> 0:45:12.569 about connecting with people that you have commonality with that 0:45:12.590 --> 0:45:15.069 you don't necessarily agree with, those are some of the 0:45:15.110 --> 0:45:16.410 most important friendships. 0:45:16.110 --> 0:45:16.670 In my life. 0:45:17.630 --> 0:45:20.150 And I have people who, you know, some people will 0:45:20.170 --> 0:45:22.150 say like, why are you still friends with that person? 0:45:22.230 --> 0:45:26.570 And I'm like, because I think figuring out how to, 0:45:27.530 --> 0:45:31.779 how to have friction and move through it together is 0:45:31.969 --> 0:45:34.900 actually important for society. And if I don't model it 0:45:34.940 --> 0:45:37.160 in my own life, how am I going to encourage 0:45:37.280 --> 0:45:39.960 us to do it? And sometimes it means we take 0:45:40.020 --> 0:45:43.000 breaks and then we get back together to talk about things. 0:45:43.500 --> 0:45:45.839 But when you don't give up on people, you won't 0:45:45.890 --> 0:45:48.569 give up on your community either. And I think we 0:45:48.910 --> 0:45:51.830 all need to remember that. And I think we need 0:45:51.850 --> 0:45:54.549 to figure out, even when it's hard, how to come 0:45:54.590 --> 0:45:59.610 back to the table and remember that we're in this together, 0:45:59.630 --> 0:46:02.070 for better or worse. So we better get it together, too. 0:46:04.200 --> 0:46:05.200 I completely agree with you. 0:46:05.260 --> 0:46:07.219 It's like, to me, it's this basic sense of like, 0:46:07.540 --> 0:46:10.040 how would I want someone else to approach me with this? 0:46:10.420 --> 0:46:11.899 Would I want them to just think that. 0:46:11.920 --> 0:46:14.860 I'm my point of view on this or that thing 0:46:14.930 --> 0:46:16.570 and be like, oh, she's too. 0:46:16.450 --> 0:46:17.089 Liberal, blah, blah. 0:46:17.450 --> 0:46:20.529 No, it's like, that's a, it's just a, I think 0:46:20.570 --> 0:46:25.190 it's a unproductive way to live life. And I think 0:46:25.230 --> 0:46:30.339 that it has been exacerbated by our online lives, our politics, 0:46:30.540 --> 0:46:34.020 our culture that can't like, And no event can happen 0:46:34.060 --> 0:46:37.100 without there being some sort of like argument about it. 0:46:37.180 --> 0:46:39.820 It's like, and everyone's like, well, keep politics out of it. 0:46:39.820 --> 0:46:41.460 And then it's like, well, you can't keep politics out 0:46:41.480 --> 0:46:41.600 of it. 0:46:41.600 --> 0:46:45.160 It's like, oh my God, again, none of this conversation. 0:46:44.739 --> 0:46:45.540 Is gonna go anywhere. 0:46:46.320 --> 0:46:47.870 I know, it's like, I'm just so tired. 0:46:48.430 --> 0:46:51.090 What, and it doesn't have to be a political thing 0:46:51.410 --> 0:46:53.109 or about the media company or the book. 0:46:53.190 --> 0:46:54.870 It can be about any of those. 0:46:54.750 --> 0:46:57.069 Things or it can be just a personal thing. I'm 0:46:57.110 --> 0:47:00.069 really curious what feels like your work in progress right now. 0:47:00.550 --> 0:47:03.080 I've really been feeling like I'm sort of, on the 0:47:03.120 --> 0:47:07.070 cusp of a new phase. And I've been thinking about 0:47:07.200 --> 0:47:14.130 how to, like, I guess manifest that going forward and 0:47:14.489 --> 0:47:16.350 just kind of trying to think about how to like 0:47:16.469 --> 0:47:22.800 flex my creative interests in a way that's different, but 0:47:23.060 --> 0:47:25.399 still sort of like grounded in the things that people 0:47:25.440 --> 0:47:27.560 are really like familiar with me for. 0:47:27.580 --> 0:47:30.980 So yeah, It's, you know, I feel like I'm always 0:47:31.020 --> 0:47:31.820 a work in progress. 0:47:32.020 --> 0:47:34.819 And it's weird that people would not want to keep 0:47:34.860 --> 0:47:36.980 being one because like that's death. 0:47:38.520 --> 0:47:38.840 Yeah. 0:47:40.300 --> 0:47:40.620 Yeah. 0:47:41.380 --> 0:47:46.050 If we don't continue evolving, we're over. 0:47:47.010 --> 0:47:47.190 Right. 0:47:47.770 --> 0:47:48.050 Yeah. 0:47:49.070 --> 0:47:51.150 I feel that. I feel that a lot. 0:47:51.489 --> 0:47:54.870 It's been an interesting thing with my first book because 0:47:55.190 --> 0:47:58.799 you know this. it's this massive undertaking and then you 0:47:58.820 --> 0:48:00.880 put it in the world and you go, oh wow, 0:48:01.000 --> 0:48:04.600 I have all this sort of space in me freed up. 0:48:05.260 --> 0:48:07.320 Like I took it all out and I put it 0:48:07.920 --> 0:48:10.000 in a physical thing and now what do I want 0:48:10.020 --> 0:48:11.219 to do with all this space? 0:48:11.520 --> 0:48:12.320 It's so cool. 0:48:13.239 --> 0:48:14.900 I mean, I love that feeling, but it's like, you 0:48:14.940 --> 0:48:16.640 kind of have to like wait for it to refill. 0:48:16.760 --> 0:48:18.700 Like you have to almost like go through the cycle 0:48:18.719 --> 0:48:24.839 of like fully releasing it, getting feedback, not like, oh, 0:48:24.880 --> 0:48:25.640 did it like do well? 0:48:25.660 --> 0:48:28.550 What I mean is like, how did it affect people? 0:48:28.610 --> 0:48:31.609 Like, what did they, what is the qualitative things that 0:48:31.630 --> 0:48:34.009 they say to you about how it affected them rather 0:48:34.050 --> 0:48:35.509 than like, how many books did you sell? It's like, 0:48:35.810 --> 0:48:38.469 how many, what did they say in their messages about 0:48:38.489 --> 0:48:39.270 where it resonated? 0:48:39.290 --> 0:48:39.370 Yeah. 0:48:40.190 --> 0:48:44.190 I think for me, the thing I constantly try to 0:48:44.250 --> 0:48:47.680 remind myself of is to always be open to new 0:48:47.739 --> 0:48:53.360 information and, and to hold it alongside what I already 0:48:53.400 --> 0:48:59.540 know and, know that it's all fuel for showing up. 0:49:01.140 --> 0:49:03.219 And then go out in the world and try to 0:49:03.260 --> 0:49:03.490 do it. 0:49:04.739 --> 0:49:08.140 I'm with you. We contain multitudes and the world is 0:49:08.180 --> 0:49:11.100 very nuanced. Even though the. 0:49:11.100 --> 0:49:11.950 Internet has none. 0:49:11.969 --> 0:49:15.170 No nuance online anymore. 0:49:15.190 --> 0:49:18.810 I will say I have made so many amazing smart 0:49:18.870 --> 0:49:19.850 friends from the internet. 0:49:19.890 --> 0:49:21.660 Like, that's the thing. It's like, yeah, that sucks. 0:49:21.739 --> 0:49:25.340 But I have so many, there's so many funny, smart, 0:49:25.520 --> 0:49:26.760 interesting people. 0:49:26.900 --> 0:49:29.759 And I'm like, wow, like you're all out there in 0:49:29.800 --> 0:49:30.410 the world. 0:49:30.570 --> 0:49:34.350 It's like, there's so, there's just, that makes me feel 0:49:34.370 --> 0:49:35.010 really hopeful. 0:49:35.350 --> 0:49:37.350 Me too. I feel lucky for that. 0:49:38.120 --> 0:49:38.339 Yeah. 0:49:38.520 --> 0:49:40.239 Even with you, it's like, this is it. 0:49:40.380 --> 0:49:43.180 You connect with your people online and then you just 0:49:43.219 --> 0:49:45.880 have each other. So that's the good side of that. 0:49:45.760 --> 0:49:46.700 Pendulum for sure. 0:49:47.930 --> 0:49:49.689 Everything is good and bad. 0:49:50.250 --> 0:49:52.230 Well, thank you for coming on the show today. Thank 0:49:52.270 --> 0:49:56.410 you for giving us a much needed boost. And yeah, 0:49:57.070 --> 0:49:58.370 let's go fight the patriarchy. 0:49:58.850 --> 0:50:00.589 Thank you, Sophia. This was so much fun.