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Speaker 1: So Matt, I've been up since three am waiting for this.

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Speaker 2: Story to drop. Better be a big one.

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Speaker 1: It's huge, huge. This week we've got a special episode

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Speaker 1: of Disclosure. Let's go, Let's go, Let's go. I'm investigative

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Speaker 1: journalist Jason Leopold. I spend most of my days getting

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Speaker 1: documents from the government.

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Speaker 2: I'm attorney Matt Tappik, and I fight them in court

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Speaker 2: to open their files when they don't want to.

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Speaker 1: From Bloomberg and no smiling. This is Disclosure, a podcast

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Speaker 1: about prying loose government secrets, the Freedom of Information Act,

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Speaker 1: and the unexpected places that takes us. Cool shirt Jason

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Speaker 1: Horror Business by the Misfits. This is my annual Halloween shirt.

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Speaker 1: We are recording this on Friday, October thirty first, my

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Speaker 1: favorite day of the year. Halloeen.

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Speaker 2: I swear this is the coincidence I have on my

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Speaker 2: annual Halloween original Misfits hoodie that I bring out every

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Speaker 2: Halloween as I'm giving out candy to the local kids

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Speaker 2: with the soundtrack of like Slayer and Decide and you

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Speaker 2: know a bunch of like thrashing. Oh man, you threw

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Speaker 2: in da side. So where you've been, you've been quiet?

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Speaker 2: This week.

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Speaker 1: Well, Matt, I've been working on a story at Jeffrey

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Speaker 1: Epstein's story. By the looks of it, Yes, Matt, that

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Speaker 1: is correct. There's a breakthrough in the Jeffrey Epstein case.

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Speaker 1: Today Bloomberg is reporting this revelation.

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Speaker 2: The scope of the investigation to Epstein may have been

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Speaker 2: actually much larger than we previously knew.

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Speaker 1: Congressman Robert Garcia, the ranking member on House Oversight, shared his.

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Speaker 2: Alarm and this is a huge problem. Part of the

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Speaker 2: investigation is incredibly troubling.

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Speaker 1: You know, Jeffrey Epstein has been in the news a

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Speaker 1: lot this year. Epstein, of course, is the wealthy and

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Speaker 1: connected financier who is convicted of sex trafficking miners before

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Speaker 1: his death and detention in twenty nineteen. So the news

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Speaker 1: cranked up in the past year again when Donald Trump,

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Speaker 1: on the campaign trail said that if he were elected,

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Speaker 1: he put out the full files that the government has

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Speaker 1: on Epstein. However, in July, the Trump administration backtracked, saying

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Speaker 1: that no further disclosure would be appropriate or warranted.

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Speaker 2: Uh oh, how did that go over?

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Speaker 1: Well, it's left a lot of unanswered questions about Epstein

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Speaker 1: that go back almost twenty years to the first Epstein

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Speaker 1: investigation we know about. That was the federal probe into

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Speaker 1: allegations that he solicited sex with minors. A lot of

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Speaker 1: the Epstein controversy dates back to that investigation and the

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Speaker 1: deal that federal prosecutors struck. That deal led Epstein to

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Speaker 1: plead guilty to lesser state charges in Florida and effectively

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Speaker 1: shielded co conspirators from prosecution, and it left his accusers

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Speaker 1: in the dark about the deal the Feds were striking.

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Speaker 1: The outcome has been widely derided as far too lenient,

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Speaker 1: and it let Epstein return pretty quickly to a social

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Speaker 1: circles that also included a lot of well known, wealthy

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Speaker 1: people like.

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Speaker 2: Say, Prince Andrew. Well, Matt, it's just Andrew.

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Speaker 3: Now Prince Andrew will no longer be a prince, something

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Speaker 3: that has not happened in more than a century. King

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Speaker 3: Charles stripping his brother of all his titles over his

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Speaker 3: ties to the late convicted sex predator Jeffrey Epstein.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so there's a lot out about Epstein, and yet

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Speaker 2: you found something pretty big.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I definitely found something pretty big, Matt. I

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Speaker 1: found out about a whole other line of federal investigation

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Speaker 1: to Epstein that hasn't been reported ever. Nont allegations about

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Speaker 1: sex trafficking or sex with minors, but something else, entirely

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Speaker 1: money laundering. Wait what let me tell you, Matt, this

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Speaker 1: really does change a lot about how we look at

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Speaker 1: the whole Epstein affair. There's still big questions about his money,

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Speaker 1: how a college dropout turned financial advisor built his fortune

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Speaker 1: in the first place, And since you have found dead

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Speaker 1: in his cell in twenty nineteen, those questions have only

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Speaker 1: grown this summer. Senator Ron Wyden, he's a top Democrat

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Speaker 1: on the Senate Finance Committee, stoke that fire.

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Speaker 4: Now somewhere in the Treasury Department, mister President, locked away

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Speaker 4: in a cab a drawer, is a big Epstein file.

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Speaker 1: Wyden said. His panel reviewed records compiled by the Treasury's

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Speaker 1: Financial Crimes Enforcement Network, also known as FINN, said, and

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Speaker 1: those records revealed that major banks processed more than one

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Speaker 1: point five billion in suspicious transactions.

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Speaker 2: That's billion with a B.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, one point five billion that Epstein allegedly used to

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Speaker 1: traffic women or in suspicious transactions that looked a lot

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Speaker 1: like money laundering.

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Speaker 4: Four seven hundred and twenty five Wire transfers flowing in

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Speaker 4: and out of just one of mister Epstein's bank accounts.

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Speaker 4: That is more than four thousand potential lines of investigation.

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Speaker 1: So my new story, Matt, shows that almost twenty years ago,

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Speaker 1: federal prosecutors were going down a similar path following Epstein's

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Speaker 1: money until they just stopped.

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Speaker 2: Okay, tell me where does this start?

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Speaker 1: All?

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Speaker 2: Right?

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Speaker 1: So I've been learning quite a bit about Jeffrey Epstein

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Speaker 1: these past few months because I've been going through a

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Speaker 1: trove of emails eighteen thousand emails from Epstein's private Yahoo

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Speaker 1: email account obtained by Bloomberg. And these emails show Epstein,

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Speaker 1: in his own words, they've never been released before. They

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Speaker 1: detail a methodical and callous approach he took to recruiting

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Speaker 1: young women, his close partnership with Glain Maxwell, and the

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Speaker 1: support he received from an array of high powered associates, attorneys, academics, bankers.

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Speaker 2: So when is he writing all these emails?

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Speaker 1: These emails from Epstein's inbox span a twenty year timeframe.

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Speaker 2: Wow.

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Speaker 1: But the message traffic was most active between like two

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Speaker 1: thousand and five and two thousand and eight, which is

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Speaker 1: critical because that happens to be a pivotal period for Epstein.

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Speaker 1: That was the period when he came under scrutiny by

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Speaker 1: Florida officials. And it's when the Palm Beach Police Department

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Speaker 1: and a criminal investigation into a local man that teenage

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Speaker 1: girls refer to simply as Jeff. So this first investigation

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Speaker 1: into allegations relating to sex with minors started locally, but

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Speaker 1: then about a year later, in two thousand and six,

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Speaker 1: in came federal prosecutors from the Southern District of Florida.

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Speaker 2: So how do you know what the feds we're looking into?

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Speaker 2: Do you have documents from their investigation?

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Speaker 1: For the most part, No, I don't. What I have though,

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Speaker 1: are Epstein's emails, So I'm not seeing the investigation itself,

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Speaker 1: just how Epstein and his lawyers reacted and shaped their

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Speaker 1: legal strategy. From the start, he cast this whole thing

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Speaker 1: as an unfair probe into him, despite that it focused

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Speaker 1: on his involvement with underage girls, which by then investigators

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Speaker 1: had known about for years.

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Speaker 2: So did you get these records through foya?

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Speaker 1: No, Matt, I have other ways of getting records.

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Speaker 2: Could you foya the DOJ and ask for the prosecutor's records?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? You could, and in fact, a lot of people

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Speaker 1: have FOYA DOJ, FBI and even some other agencies for

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Speaker 1: Epstein's records, which are the records that make up the

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Speaker 1: Epstein files. And in fact, way back in twenty seventeen,

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Speaker 1: Radar Magazine had filed a Fouer request with the FBI

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Speaker 1: for Jeffrey Epstein related records and they got about one

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Speaker 1: thousand pages released, but it took them suing the FBI

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Speaker 1: to get those records, and the bureau withheld thousands of

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Speaker 1: other pages. That lawsuit is still pending, it's still happening

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Speaker 1: right now, and so it's happening alongside the pressure that's

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Speaker 1: coming on the Trump administration to release the Epstein files.

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Speaker 1: So there is active foil litigation. There's still a bunch

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Speaker 1: of Fouyer requests that have been filed for Epstein records.

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Speaker 2: So we may be learning more through some government records

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Speaker 2: later on possibly. Okay, So where does the money laundering

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Speaker 2: investigation come in?

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Speaker 1: Okay? So, documents in Epstein's inbox show that in November

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Speaker 1: of two thousand and six, prosecutors issued us a pace

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Speaker 1: for Epstein's personal income tax returns for the previous two years.

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Speaker 1: Then in February two thousand and seven, a money laundering

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Speaker 1: probe was opened, and around the same time, prosecutors focused

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Speaker 1: on a pattern of transactions in which Epstein directed some

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Speaker 1: of his employees to withdraw large amounts of cash to

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Speaker 1: disperse to women around the world he exploited, and that

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Speaker 1: was the basis for a potential charge of operating an

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Speaker 1: unlicensed money transmitting business. So these emails show Matt that

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Speaker 1: the lead federal prosecutor on this case requested that a

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Speaker 1: grand jury issue subpoenas for every financial transaction conducted by

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Speaker 1: Epstein and his six businesses dating to two thousand and three.

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Speaker 1: And I also reported that prosecutors sent subpoenas to some

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Speaker 1: major banks.

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Speaker 2: And so, according to the emails, when Jeffrey Epstein learned

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Speaker 2: that the investigation had been broadened into financial crimes, how

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Speaker 2: did he take that? Oh?

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Speaker 1: He was furious, in part because the prosecutor contacted one

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Speaker 1: of his longtime wealth management clients, Les Wexner. Les Wexner

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Speaker 1: is the billionaire businessman behind Victoria's Secret and Bath and

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Speaker 1: body Works, and Epstein's emails showed that not long after

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Speaker 1: the prosecutor's conversation with Wexner, Wexner then took steps to

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Speaker 1: end Epstein's role as his wealth manager.

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Speaker 2: I'm guessing that didn't go over too well with Epstein.

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Speaker 2: So what did he do?

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Speaker 1: Epstein pulled in some high powered lawyers, including Harvard law

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Speaker 1: professor Alan Dershowitz and former independent counsel Ken Starr, and

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Speaker 1: the lawyers launched an aggressive campaign to discredit the federal

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Speaker 1: prosecutor's attempts to follow the money and pressure higher ups

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Speaker 1: to remove the prosecutor and others from the case or

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Speaker 1: scuttle it entirely. Dershowitz told Bloomberg that he does not

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Speaker 1: recall any involvement in the discussions related to allegations of

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Speaker 1: money laundering, and ken Starr died in twenty twenty two.

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Speaker 2: Now that's interesting, Jason, because listeners on this pot are

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Speaker 2: going to hear a lot about the fact that when

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Speaker 2: famous people die, you can foia the FBI and see

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Speaker 2: what files there are, which you normally can't get while

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Speaker 2: they're alive because it's considered an invasion of privacy, But

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Speaker 2: once they've died you can get records.

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Speaker 1: Which you know very well is my knee jerk reaction.

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Speaker 1: Whenever someone prominent dies.

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Speaker 2: I usually find out about famous people dying when I

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Speaker 2: get a text from Jason about his foyer requests before

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Speaker 2: I've even seen it in the news. And so I

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Speaker 2: took a look on the FBI vault. That's where they

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Speaker 2: post records that are frequently requested if they've been requested

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Speaker 2: multiple times, and sure enough, there are hundreds of Ken

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Speaker 2: Starr pages. All right, let's get back to this story here.

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Speaker 2: So who is the federal prosecutor that's issuing these subpoenas

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Speaker 2: and talking to Epstein's client.

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Speaker 1: So the lead prosecutor here was an assistant US attorney

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Speaker 1: for the Southern District of Florida. Her name is Marie

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Speaker 1: Villa Fania. She left that office in twenty twenty three,

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Speaker 1: and she declined to comment on the story. But we

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Speaker 1: already know some things about her broader prosecution. By May

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Speaker 1: two thousand and seven, she had drafted a fifty three

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Speaker 1: page indictment and an eighty two page prosecution memo. And

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Speaker 1: we know from a Justice Department report that came out

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Speaker 1: in twenty twenty that Villa Fanya urged her superiors to

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Speaker 1: move swiftly because she believed that Epstein was continuing to

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Speaker 1: sexually abuse girls. But the report says that Villa Fanya

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Speaker 1: was stonewalled by senior officials at the office who saw

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Speaker 1: her as too aggressive.

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Speaker 2: Interesting, So that Justice Department report from twenty twenty does

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Speaker 2: that mention that the Florida prosecutor was looking into financial crimes.

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Speaker 1: No, there's not a single mention in that report about

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Speaker 1: financial crimes, but we know it from Epstein's inbox. And

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Speaker 1: I also talked to a former law enforcement official who

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Speaker 1: was familiar with the case, and that person said the

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Speaker 1: evidence Villafani collected was serious enough that she wrote in

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Speaker 1: the prosecution memo that Epstein should be charged with money

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Speaker 1: laundering and operating an unlicensed money transmitting business. And this

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Speaker 1: person also said that the probe lasted eighteen months and

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Speaker 1: turned up at least tens of millions of dollars in

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Speaker 1: questionable financial transactions. And Matt, what is really important here

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Speaker 1: is that these details have never been disclosed. So everything

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Speaker 1: that we know about the Epstein investigation that took place

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Speaker 1: in two thousand and six through two thousand and eight,

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Speaker 1: for the most part, center on the sex crimes. There's

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Speaker 1: never been any disclosure around financial crimes.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, this is really good stuff. So that's what we

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Speaker 2: know about the indictment. It's just a draft indictment, Jason, right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the indictment has never been publicly released. It was

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Speaker 1: never filed with the court along with that eighty two

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Speaker 1: page prosecution memo, and to this day it remained shrouded

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Speaker 1: in secrecy.

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Speaker 2: So he was never indicted for the things that the

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Speaker 2: lengthy memo and draft indictment were contemplating.

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Speaker 1: No. Never, Let's jump to July two thousand and seven.

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Speaker 1: She and another prosecutor are then directed to enter into

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Speaker 1: the negotiations with Epstein and his legal team on a

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Speaker 1: non prosecution agreement.

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Speaker 2: So she works up the materials towards an indictment, but

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Speaker 2: her superiors decide, we're not going to do that, let's

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Speaker 2: go negotiate a deal instead.

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Speaker 1: Well that's the implication. So the Justice Department report that

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Speaker 1: was released in twenty twenty that basically examined the integrity

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Speaker 1: of the non prosecution agreement, as well as our emails,

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Speaker 1: show that prosecutors wanted Epstein to plead guilty to sex

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Speaker 1: crimes with a minor, register as a sex offender, paid

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Speaker 1: damages to an undisclosed list of victims, and spend two

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Speaker 1: years in prison, but Epstein's lawyers rejected that, and a

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Speaker 1: month in these negotiations stalled.

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Speaker 2: So what happens after that?

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Speaker 1: Well, then on August sixteenth, two thousand and seven, Villafania

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Speaker 1: requested that a grand jury issue subpoenas for Epstein's financial

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Speaker 1: records dating back to two thousand and three. And on

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Speaker 1: the same day she also sent a letter informing Epstein's

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Speaker 1: defense attorneys that she would continue investigating his finances as

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Speaker 1: long as the non prosecution agreement remained unsigned. And in

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Speaker 1: the emails you can see Epstein and his lawyers are

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Speaker 1: grappling with this, so they prepare a twenty two page

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Speaker 1: document titled in Ree Grand Jury Investigation of Jeffrey Epstein.

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Speaker 2: Hey, it's in RAY.

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Speaker 1: I like to say in reere, you really because I

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Speaker 1: have no idea. Yeah, I mean that's what I usually said.

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Speaker 1: In ray. That's legal speak for with regard to grand

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Speaker 1: jury investigation of Jeffrey Epstein. And you can see from

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Speaker 1: the track changes that there are a lot of edits

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Speaker 1: here from Jee and those are at Stein's initials, and

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Speaker 1: there's a line in it from Villafania that says, quote,

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Speaker 1: in other words, if the sex offense cases resolved, the

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Speaker 1: office would close its investigation into other areas as well.

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Speaker 1: The matter has not been and it does not appear

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Speaker 1: that it will be resolved, So the money laundering investigation continues,

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Speaker 1: and requests number six, seeking records of every financial transaction

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Speaker 1: conducted by Epstein and his six businesses from January first,

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Speaker 1: two thousand and three to the present will not be withdrawn.

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Speaker 2: So the prosecutor is basically saying, plead did the sex

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Speaker 2: offense charges? Or we're continuing on with the money laundering investigation.

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Speaker 1: Well, it's hard to say for sure, but he signs

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Speaker 1: the non prosecution agreement on September twenty fourth, two thousand

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Speaker 1: and seven, one day before Villafania says she was prepared

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Speaker 1: to indict him, and he would ultimately agree to plead

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Speaker 1: guilty to two sex charges, state level charges, not federal charges.

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Speaker 2: And that's what led to all these criticisms. The deal

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Speaker 2: was way too easy.

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Speaker 1: On it in part yes and the fact that it

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Speaker 1: later came out the women who had accused Epstein didn't

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Speaker 1: know the Feds were making this deal.

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Speaker 2: So Epstein agrees to the deal, the money laundering investigation goes.

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Speaker 1: Away, and that's that not exactly. I'll tell you what

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Speaker 1: happens after the break. So it's September two thousand and seven.

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Speaker 1: Epstein has just agreed to admit sex charges as part

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Speaker 1: of this non prosecution agreement. But according to the Epstein

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Speaker 1: emails we obtained, the federal investigation and the money laundering

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Speaker 1: probe didn't end there. The prosecutor, Marie Villafana, she kept

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Speaker 1: both the sex crimes and financial crimes investigations open as

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Speaker 1: she began working with Epstein's attorneys to reach an agreement

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Speaker 1: on certain terms of the plea deal, and Epstein was incensed.

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Speaker 1: He and his attorneys immediately took steps to back out

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Speaker 1: of the agreement he'd sign, and on October fifteenth, two

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Speaker 1: thousand and seven, Epstein sends himself an email and attached

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Speaker 1: a word document he wrote titled did you know that.

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Speaker 2: I see some of that in the story? So what

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Speaker 2: does it say?

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Speaker 1: Okay? So this document contains twenty nine complaints about the

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Speaker 1: federal investigation. It portrays his victims as unreliable witnesses and

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Speaker 1: drug abusers vuying for his money, and it casts the

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Speaker 1: investigators and prosecutors as biased, inept, and unethical. And he

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Speaker 1: says he was unfairly targeted by the financial investigation. Here

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Speaker 1: are a few bullet points. Point twenty she begins a

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Speaker 1: money laundering investigation without the necessary requirement of specified illegal funds.

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Speaker 1: Point twenty one she says she is contemplating charging a

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Speaker 1: violation of a money transmitting statue, though Epstein has no

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Speaker 1: such business, so he's lashing out. His email is becoming

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Speaker 1: pretty frantic. You could see Epstein venting a about the

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Speaker 1: prosecution in another email he wrote in November two thousand

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Speaker 1: and seven to Jimmy Kain, the former chief executive officer

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Speaker 1: of bear Stearns, and another friend.

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Speaker 2: Matt read the subject subject line this is how crazy Jason?

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Speaker 2: What does Epstein write?

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Speaker 1: Okay, so this is a lengthy email and he starts

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Speaker 1: off this email Matt by writing, my team consists of

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Speaker 1: professionals with over two hundred and fifty years of criminal experience.

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Speaker 2: Wait, wait, criminal experience or criminal justice experience.

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Speaker 1: No, No, two hundred and fifty years of criminal experience.

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Speaker 2: Look, my guys know about crime, and what they're telling

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Speaker 2: me this isn't a crime.

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Speaker 1: Well. What I do think you need to know about

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Speaker 1: Epstein's emails is they contain so many typos and grammatical errors,

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Speaker 1: misspelled words, and we just publish it as he wrote it.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, but yes, two hundred and fifty years of

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Speaker 1: criminalist sparents.

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Speaker 2: I'm going to jump into or two and just note

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Speaker 2: his email address is littlest Jeff at yahoo dot com.

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Speaker 1: That's how it reads. That's how it reads littlest Jeff.

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Speaker 1: But it's actually Little Saint Jeff, which is the name

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Speaker 1: of the island he bought.

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Speaker 2: Oh it looks like Littlest Jeff. Yeah, but it's Little

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Speaker 2: Saint Jeff.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. So the email goes on to say, in an

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Speaker 1: abundance of care, we have also consulted with outside experts

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Speaker 1: and former Justice Department officials. The clear and unanimous consensus

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Speaker 1: is they find the conduct outrageous and frankly, not one

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Speaker 1: of them has been able to recall seeing anything like

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Speaker 1: this before. And among the outrageous behavior he accuses the

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Speaker 1: FEDS of is demanding that he registers a sex offender

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Speaker 1: and pay his quote alleged victims a minimum of one

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Speaker 1: hundred and fifty thousand dollars each. In his letter to Kane,

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Speaker 1: he accuses the federal government of engaging in quote virtual extortion.

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Speaker 2: I get to say, I mean, this guy's facing some

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Speaker 2: pretty serious stuff. And I think he's worth a lot

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Speaker 2: of money at this point, and he's quibbling over the

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Speaker 2: amount of money to be paid to the victims.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he is questioning whether they are actually victims. That's

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Speaker 1: what is laid bare in these emails during the course

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Speaker 1: of the government's investigation and prosecution, and this particular email

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Speaker 1: goes on to say, quote, they demanded a jail sentence

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Speaker 1: for someone who had no criminal history, no violence, drugs,

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Speaker 1: no position of authority. Then when they were confronted with

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Speaker 1: an extensive brief as to why these statutes did not apply,

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Speaker 1: they threatened to bring a money crime based on an

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Speaker 1: illegal money transmitting business, even though no such business ever

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Speaker 1: actually existed.

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Speaker 2: I get to say, as a lawyer, this guy sounds

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Speaker 2: like a nightmare of a client. So anyway, now you

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Speaker 2: have an email a week later, what's that about.

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Speaker 1: Epstein is sending himself an email with a file he's

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Speaker 1: intending for his attorneys to send to the top federal

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Speaker 1: prosecutor in southern Florida, Alex Acosta. The documents called Acosta Challenge.

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Speaker 1: It criticizes Prosecutor Villafana, who's leading the investigation, especially our

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Speaker 1: focus on his alleged financial crimes. And he also false

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Speaker 1: the department for ignoring its own policy of so called

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Speaker 1: horizontal equity, which is supposed to ensure a level playing

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Speaker 1: field in prosecutions.

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Speaker 2: He's saying they're prejudiced against rich people. That's his argument.

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Speaker 2: They're prejudiced against rich people. So tell me more about

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Speaker 2: what that letter says.

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Speaker 1: Okay, here's part of it. The policy clearly implies that

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Speaker 1: a man of wealth should be treated no differently than

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Speaker 1: any of those less fortunate. That has certainly not happened here.

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Speaker 1: Though many cases of a similar and even more serious

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Speaker 1: nature have been resolved with a sentence of house arrest.

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Speaker 1: We were told that it was not available to my

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Speaker 1: client because it would be considered manshin arrest. My client,

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Speaker 1: under investigation for a sex offense, has been asked for

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Speaker 1: his income tax returns, all bank accounts, his medical records,

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Speaker 1: threatened with a money laundering charge, though the minimum prerequisite

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Speaker 1: of a specified unlawful activity could not be described.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So Epstein's high powered lawyers are engaging with US

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Speaker 2: Attorney Alex Acosta. That's the alex Acosta.

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Speaker 1: Yes, the alex Acosta. Matt the US Labor secretary. In

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump's first administration, and years before he got that job,

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Speaker 1: he was a US attorney for the Southern District of

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Speaker 1: Florida who oversaw the Epstein prosecution and the deal he

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Speaker 1: worked out. That deal finally came together in June of

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Speaker 1: two thousand and eight, nine months after Epstein signed his

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Speaker 1: non prosecution agreement and after relentless letters from Epstein's lawyers.

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Speaker 1: In its final form, the agreement allowed him to escape

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Speaker 1: federal charges, serve a reduced jail sentence, and shield his

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Speaker 1: co conspirators from prosecution. Alex Acosta signed off on the

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Speaker 1: plea deal.

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Speaker 2: So what does this mean for a costa now?

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Speaker 1: Well, Matt, I'm glad you asked. Last month, Acosta met

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Speaker 1: with a House committee on Oversight in Government Reform, and

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Speaker 1: during that interview, Representative Melanie Stansbury, she's a New Mexico

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Speaker 1: Democrat on the committee, asked Acosta whether his office had

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Speaker 1: discussed potential financial crimes and whether that factored into the

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Speaker 1: decision not to pursue federal charges.

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Speaker 2: So what did he say? What was his answer?

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Speaker 1: Well, according to the transcript of this interview the committee

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Speaker 1: released this month, Acosta answered, quote, I don't recall a

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Speaker 1: financial aspect and then he went on to say, to

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Speaker 1: my recollection, the discussion was focused on the sex crimes.

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Speaker 2: And so what do the emails the you obtained?

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Speaker 1: And to that, well, the emails and documents from Epstein's

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Speaker 1: Yahoo account show that prosecutors in Acosta's office discussed the

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Speaker 1: financial crimes component of the investigation with Acosta and copied

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Speaker 1: him on correspondence about it. I spoke with Senator Ron

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Speaker 1: Wyden's office for my story, and in a statement he

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Speaker 1: said the new details quote only raise additional questions about

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Speaker 1: Acosta's truthfulness. And then Wyden also said that the best

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Speaker 1: case scenario, according to his story that's a Costas story,

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Speaker 1: is that it was by incompetence rather than by choice,

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Speaker 1: that he allowed Epstein to go on trafficking women and

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Speaker 1: girls for another decade.

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Speaker 2: Wow, So what is Acosta said?

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Speaker 1: So? Acosta's attorney told Bloomberg that he stands by his testimony.

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Speaker 1: He said that back in two thousand and six, the

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Speaker 1: Southern District of Florida employed over two hundred attorneys working

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Speaker 1: on countless investigations, and although Acosta approved of the EPSO matter,

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Speaker 1: he did not direct that or any investigation. That's what

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Speaker 1: his attorney said, So.

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Speaker 2: This whole financial crimes investigation of Epstein that happened almost

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Speaker 2: twenty years ago, but it managed to stay pretty quiet.

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Speaker 2: This has never been out there.

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Speaker 1: Well, there was a hint of it, remember in the

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Speaker 1: emails that I read. The lead prosecutor in the case,

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Speaker 1: Marie vill Fanya. She was on the receiving end of

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Speaker 1: a lot of attacks from Epstein's attorneys, and at one

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Speaker 1: point she responded in a five page letter to one

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Speaker 1: of the lawyers. She writes, quote, the time has come

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Speaker 1: for me to respond to the ever increasing attacks on

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Speaker 1: my role in the investigation and negotiations. And that letter

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Speaker 1: made its way into a court filing in a twoenty

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Speaker 1: sixteen lawsuit filed by Epstein's victims. So the letter was public,

439
00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:55,640
Speaker 1: but no one ever picked up on it. And at

440
00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:59,800
Speaker 1: the bottom of one of the pages, Villa Fania included

441
00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:04,000
Speaker 1: a footnote and she calls out the Epstein lawyer for

442
00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:10,439
Speaker 1: quote unfounded allegations in your letter about document demands, the

443
00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:15,960
Speaker 1: money laundering investigation, contacting potential witnesses, speaking with the press

444
00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:16,720
Speaker 1: and the like.

445
00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:20,240
Speaker 2: So she mentions a money laundering investigation.

446
00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:23,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, there was a mention, one breadcrumb, easy to miss,

447
00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:26,480
Speaker 1: but now we have way more.

448
00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:30,360
Speaker 2: So when I see this, Jason, I mean, I'm thinking

449
00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:33,800
Speaker 2: there's got to be all kinds of foyas to be asking, right.

450
00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:36,639
Speaker 1: So there are a ton of foyas that could be

451
00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:40,600
Speaker 1: filed for this material. And you know, as I said earlier,

452
00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:46,000
Speaker 1: Mad this these records presumably make up what's in the

453
00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:50,800
Speaker 1: Epstein file. So the letters that were sent to the

454
00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:55,119
Speaker 1: government by Epstein's attorneys could be requested through the FOYA.

455
00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:59,000
Speaker 1: But the Justice Department of the FBI has already said

456
00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:03,000
Speaker 1: that they are not releasing any more records from the

457
00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:07,920
Speaker 1: so called Epstein files. What could the public request through

458
00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:12,160
Speaker 1: FOYA from say, the Department of Justice or FBI.

459
00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:15,400
Speaker 2: Well, I mean prosecutor records, FBI records. These things are

460
00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:18,280
Speaker 2: all what are called agency records under FOYA, and so

461
00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:23,640
Speaker 2: they're subject to disclosure unless an exemption applies. And when

462
00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:27,080
Speaker 2: you get into criminal kinds of records and law enforcement records,

463
00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:30,200
Speaker 2: there's a lot of things that can be with held,

464
00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:34,680
Speaker 2: names of people who are alive, whether they're a witness

465
00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:38,960
Speaker 2: or a suspect or just incidentally mentioned. It's often hard

466
00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:41,520
Speaker 2: to get those. I mean, you can sometimes overcome that

467
00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:45,080
Speaker 2: with sufficient public interest and I think there's an awful

468
00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:47,960
Speaker 2: lot of public interest, in legitimate public interest in getting

469
00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:51,160
Speaker 2: to the bottom of the Epstein prosecution and how all

470
00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:54,800
Speaker 2: this stuff was handled. You know, you can have withholdings

471
00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:59,600
Speaker 2: based on ongoing investigations, but at this point Epstein has died.

472
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:02,560
Speaker 2: They're not going to charge him with anything further. You know,

473
00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:06,680
Speaker 2: I suppose there could be others who maybe there's still

474
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:08,840
Speaker 2: some active investigations, but I haven't heard of that, and

475
00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:12,720
Speaker 2: that seems kind of unlikely. And you have like investigative

476
00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:16,080
Speaker 2: techniques and things like that that you know, they could say, well,

477
00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:18,480
Speaker 2: we were using these secret techniques and if we disclose

478
00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:21,639
Speaker 2: them then it would be harmful to other investigations. So

479
00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:25,040
Speaker 2: I think that in general, there should be things that

480
00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:29,680
Speaker 2: the public could know under foyer around this, especially given

481
00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:31,200
Speaker 2: the high public interests and disclosure.

482
00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:34,679
Speaker 1: Yeah, and none of this would be controversial for the

483
00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:37,280
Speaker 1: government to process. I mean, for example, if I wanted

484
00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:43,120
Speaker 1: to gain access to the various letters that went to say,

485
00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:46,080
Speaker 1: the US Attorney's Office in the Southern District of Florida

486
00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:50,400
Speaker 1: and correspondence around that, would that be withheld under attorney

487
00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:54,400
Speaker 1: client privilege, no deliberative process, or could I get that

488
00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:55,160
Speaker 1: could we get that.

489
00:28:55,440 --> 00:28:58,040
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, if you're talking, you're talking about the exchange

490
00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:03,840
Speaker 2: of letters between the prosecutors and Epstein's lawyers. Yeah, yeah, No,

491
00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:06,880
Speaker 2: definitely not privileged. I mean, it's the opposite of privilege.

492
00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:10,200
Speaker 2: You're disclosing it to your adversary, So that's not privilege.

493
00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:13,120
Speaker 2: It's not going to be deliberative process because they're not

494
00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:17,240
Speaker 2: like deliberating together, they're adverse to each other. Right, So

495
00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:21,920
Speaker 2: now that the government's internal discussions about how to respond

496
00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:24,200
Speaker 2: to a letter from Epstein, then you're going to run

497
00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:28,280
Speaker 2: into some exemptions around attorney work product and potentially attorney

498
00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:30,800
Speaker 2: client privilege and deliberative process and stuff like that. But

499
00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:35,000
Speaker 2: all that back and forth, that's not going to be privileged.

500
00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:37,760
Speaker 2: There could be some privacy redactions or some other things

501
00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:42,600
Speaker 2: like that, but that's the opposite of privileged. Yeah.

502
00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:48,200
Speaker 1: That raises the question as to why the Justice Department

503
00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:53,960
Speaker 1: MVFBI made the final decision in July that they would

504
00:29:54,120 --> 00:30:00,440
Speaker 1: not release any additional files from the Epstein investigation files.

505
00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:03,640
Speaker 1: Like we were just discussing, like the various correspondents that

506
00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:06,800
Speaker 1: took place between the prosecutors and Epstein's lawyers. I mean,

507
00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:11,920
Speaker 1: some of that has been disclosed in civil litigation as exhibits.

508
00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:15,520
Speaker 1: But based on what I've seen in Epstein's emails and

509
00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:19,280
Speaker 1: what I've reported through this story, it's really clear that

510
00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:24,520
Speaker 1: there are a lot of records that the Justice Department

511
00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:30,400
Speaker 1: NFBI have that could appease many of those who are

512
00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:33,720
Speaker 1: clamoring for some more info from so called Epstein files.

513
00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:36,440
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, this is the maddening thing I've seen,

514
00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:38,800
Speaker 2: and you've seen over and over again, both political parties,

515
00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:41,800
Speaker 2: all levels of government running on a campaign saying we're

516
00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:44,360
Speaker 2: going to be transparent, and when the time comes, yeah, no,

517
00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:47,400
Speaker 2: we're not going to be so transparent after him. So, Jason,

518
00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:48,200
Speaker 2: what's the takeaway?

519
00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:51,120
Speaker 1: When I talked to Ron Wyden, he said money laundering

520
00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:54,040
Speaker 1: charges would have been a centerpiece in what he called

521
00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:58,480
Speaker 1: any serious prosecution of Epstein. He said, resolving the federal

522
00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:01,600
Speaker 1: money laundering case is part of the government's non prosecution

523
00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:05,960
Speaker 1: agreement was a staggering This charriage of justice, and another

524
00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:10,200
Speaker 1: expert I spoke with, a former top money laundering prosecutor,

525
00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:15,320
Speaker 1: said if the money laundering investigation had continued, it's possible

526
00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:18,880
Speaker 1: that prosecutors may have been able to identify other individuals

527
00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:24,640
Speaker 1: and institutions that facilitated Epstein's sex trafficking operation or recovered

528
00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:27,960
Speaker 1: more restitution for his victims. And beyond that. It's a

529
00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:31,040
Speaker 1: reminder that there's just more to the Epstein story, and

530
00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:34,480
Speaker 1: you can see how the prosecutor's files could shed some

531
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:37,880
Speaker 1: light on one of the central mysteries of Epstein, the

532
00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:41,480
Speaker 1: source of his money. If prosecutors were following the money

533
00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:45,160
Speaker 1: long before the public demand full accounting of his case,

534
00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:48,000
Speaker 1: what other evidence might they have gathered.

535
00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:51,560
Speaker 2: In that presumably is still in the files.

536
00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:57,400
Speaker 1: So that's it for this week. Since this is a

537
00:31:57,400 --> 00:32:00,480
Speaker 1: special episode, we won't have a public episode now next week,

538
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:03,720
Speaker 1: but subscribers will be able to access our next episode

539
00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:05,640
Speaker 1: then and you won't want to miss it.

540
00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:09,640
Speaker 2: Here's why we should estimate how many presidential records would

541
00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:10,880
Speaker 2: fit inside the toilet.

542
00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:14,160
Speaker 1: There were these big sinkholes both at the White House

543
00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:16,760
Speaker 1: and on mar A Lago's lawn.

544
00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:22,200
Speaker 2: Matt sinkholes, sinkholes. There is a chance that some intrepid

545
00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:27,680
Speaker 2: splunkers could find these documents in the sewers system.

546
00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:29,680
Speaker 1: Either I want to go on a sewer tour.

547
00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:31,360
Speaker 2: You really want to go on a sewer tour?

548
00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:35,320
Speaker 1: This feels like I don't know a Nicholas Cage movie

549
00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:40,320
Speaker 1: That's next Tuesday. Early access for subscribers from Bloomberg and

550
00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:44,040
Speaker 1: No Smiling. This is Disclosure. The show is hosted by

551
00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:47,720
Speaker 1: Matt Topic and me Jason Leopold. It's produced by Heather

552
00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:51,160
Speaker 1: Schroing and Sean Cannon for No Smiling. Our editor for

553
00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:55,400
Speaker 1: Bloomberg is Jeff Grocott. Our executive producers for Bloomberg are

554
00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:59,760
Speaker 1: Sage Bauman and me Jason Leopold, and our executive producers

555
00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:03,680
Speaker 1: for No Smiling are Sean Cannon, Heather Schrowing and Matt Topic.

556
00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:08,280
Speaker 1: The Disclosure theme song is by Nick, with additional music

557
00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:12,600
Speaker 1: by Nick and Epidemic Sound. Sound design and mixing is

558
00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:15,680
Speaker 1: by Sean Cannon. Special thanks to my co authors on

559
00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:21,000
Speaker 1: this story, Jeff cow Max Abelson, Harry Wilson, Afa Benni Morrison,

560
00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:26,080
Speaker 1: and ser Yarmantu. For more transparency news and important document thumps,

561
00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:29,960
Speaker 1: you can subscribe to my Weeklyfoya Files newsletter at Bloomberg

562
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:35,520
Speaker 1: dot com slash Foya Files. That's Foia Files. To get

563
00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:39,160
Speaker 1: every episode early on Apple Podcasts. Become a Bloomberg dot

564
00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:42,880
Speaker 1: Com subscriber today. Check out our special intro offer right

565
00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:46,640
Speaker 1: now at bloomberg dot com Slash Podcast Offer or click

566
00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:49,320
Speaker 1: the link in the show notes. You'll also unlock deep

567
00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:53,040
Speaker 1: reporting data and analysis from reporters around the world.

568
00:33:53,480 --> 00:34:01,080
Speaker 2: We'll see you again next Tuesday. What's up Ella? She

569
00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:03,760
Speaker 2: only wants to growl at being up. Rip my face off,

570
00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:04,000
Speaker 2: I

571
00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:05,840
Speaker 1: Said, get your punk inside, girl,