WEBVTT - Finding Courage 0:00:04.813 --> 0:00:08.733 Comeback Stories is a production of Inflection Network and iHeartRadio. 0:00:10.413 --> 0:00:13.813 Welcome back, everyone to another episode of Comeback Stories. I'm 0:00:13.813 --> 0:00:16.093 one of your co hosts, Darren Waller, grateful that you 0:00:16.133 --> 0:00:18.013 guys are here to join us for another episode. 0:00:18.293 --> 0:00:21.813 And I'm Donnie Starkins mindfulness and mental health coach and 0:00:21.933 --> 0:00:25.933 meditation and yoga teacher. And today we got a guest, 0:00:25.973 --> 0:00:30.093 an amazing guest. His name is Albert Bastiller. So Albert's 0:00:30.293 --> 0:00:33.733 a father, a husband, a coach, a facilitator, and co 0:00:33.813 --> 0:00:39.053 founder of Sacred Sons. Albert illuminates the darkness of human 0:00:39.173 --> 0:00:40.973 suffering with the fire of love. 0:00:41.333 --> 0:00:41.573 Wow. 0:00:41.613 --> 0:00:44.813 I love that he holds space for individual and collective 0:00:45.293 --> 0:00:48.373 healing so that all men may open their hearts and 0:00:48.493 --> 0:00:54.133 awaken to their sacred masculinity. Albert, great to have you on, brother, Welcome. 0:00:54.173 --> 0:00:56.213 Thank you so much. It's an honor to be here. Brothers. 0:00:57.053 --> 0:00:59.533 Heard so many great things about you, and I'm glad 0:00:59.573 --> 0:01:02.453 that we haven't connected in the human but we're here 0:01:02.933 --> 0:01:05.413 to really drop in. This has come Backstories and we 0:01:05.493 --> 0:01:08.133 usually get right into it, and we'd love to. 0:01:08.133 --> 0:01:12.773 Know for you what was life like growing up. That's 0:01:12.773 --> 0:01:15.813 a really big question as I'm sure most of your 0:01:15.853 --> 0:01:20.613 guests can attest to. Yeah, life for me growing up 0:01:20.973 --> 0:01:28.693 was chaotic, confusing, heartbreaking. Yeah, it was all those things 0:01:28.693 --> 0:01:30.933 and more. But I think at the core of it, 0:01:30.973 --> 0:01:34.293 I felt very alone. Even within my family of origin. 0:01:34.453 --> 0:01:39.213 I felt like there wasn't the support and direction that 0:01:39.293 --> 0:01:41.613 I was seeking to feel like I had a firm 0:01:41.693 --> 0:01:45.213 foundation on this earth. And so I feel like I 0:01:45.333 --> 0:01:49.333 escaped into my imagination often and you know, I found 0:01:49.333 --> 0:01:53.133 my way. Of course here I am and childhood was tough. 0:01:54.173 --> 0:01:57.173 So it comes to mind you brought up the word confusing. 0:01:57.413 --> 0:01:59.453 So when Darren and I first started this podcast, we 0:01:59.493 --> 0:02:03.293 came up with this first question and the very first episode, 0:02:03.293 --> 0:02:06.773 Iron interviewed Darren, and then second episode Darren interviewed me, 0:02:07.413 --> 0:02:10.453 and that was the same thing that Darren said, confusing. 0:02:10.893 --> 0:02:12.293 My answer was easy. 0:02:12.853 --> 0:02:16.933 Yet we found ourselves and even you, because I'm familiar 0:02:16.933 --> 0:02:20.693 with your story, still in the same spots, in the 0:02:20.733 --> 0:02:23.613 depth of an addiction. So I just wanted to point 0:02:23.613 --> 0:02:26.213 that out for some context, and maybe Darren I'll let 0:02:26.253 --> 0:02:28.013 there and share a little bit. I know our listeners 0:02:28.013 --> 0:02:30.253 have heard, but he can give some context as to 0:02:30.293 --> 0:02:31.653 why it was confusing for him. 0:02:33.013 --> 0:02:36.693 Yees. So the confusion for me lied in there was 0:02:36.813 --> 0:02:41.813 nothing externally wrong about the environment I grew up in. 0:02:41.853 --> 0:02:46.573 I grew up in a two parent household, great schools, 0:02:46.613 --> 0:02:51.093 great environments, I had good friends. So everything on the 0:02:51.133 --> 0:02:54.733 outside was like, this is great, Like I couldn't be 0:02:54.773 --> 0:02:57.333 blessed with a better childhood just from what I know. 0:02:57.693 --> 0:03:00.773 But the confusion light on the inside for me because 0:03:01.253 --> 0:03:06.293 very early on, I just felt like the reality and 0:03:06.333 --> 0:03:08.773 somehow what I adopted as a truth very early on 0:03:08.813 --> 0:03:12.093 that I just wasn't enough, that something about me was 0:03:12.133 --> 0:03:15.213 inherently wrong. You know, there's people of my skin color 0:03:15.253 --> 0:03:17.933 telling me that I wasn't black enough because of the 0:03:17.973 --> 0:03:20.453 way that I acted in my personality. I was just 0:03:20.453 --> 0:03:23.213 different man. I loved all different kinds of music. I 0:03:23.333 --> 0:03:26.133 was kind of nerdy. I was like all over the place. 0:03:26.173 --> 0:03:29.093 You couldn't put me in one box. But there's a 0:03:29.173 --> 0:03:33.813 bit of a limiting perspective around what it's like to 0:03:33.853 --> 0:03:36.213 be black, and I didn't fit in that box. And 0:03:36.813 --> 0:03:39.293 I just felt like the fact that I can't change 0:03:39.293 --> 0:03:41.893 my skin color, I'm stuck with this, and it's just 0:03:41.893 --> 0:03:44.333 a constant reminder that I'm not enough. And so that's 0:03:44.333 --> 0:03:45.893 where the confusion lie for me. 0:03:48.333 --> 0:03:51.733 Yeah, I would say that I can resonate with some 0:03:51.773 --> 0:03:54.533 of that. You know, my father is American, He's white American. 0:03:55.173 --> 0:03:58.373 My mother is Taiwanese. I was born in Taipeid, Taiwan, 0:03:58.413 --> 0:04:00.453 grew up there until I was five, until we moved 0:04:00.453 --> 0:04:03.893 to California after my parents separated, And so I feel 0:04:03.933 --> 0:04:05.853 like that was a lot of the root of the 0:04:05.893 --> 0:04:10.093 confusion for me was the disharmony between my mother and father. 0:04:10.293 --> 0:04:13.173 They were fighting a lot, They didn't see eye to eye. 0:04:14.213 --> 0:04:18.893 There wasn't a lot of affection and tenderness and kindness. 0:04:19.373 --> 0:04:22.853 My mother, of course, was a very nurturing woman, cooked 0:04:22.853 --> 0:04:26.253 amazing food and was like very quick to you know, 0:04:26.293 --> 0:04:29.253 want to comfort us and soothe us. My father was 0:04:29.293 --> 0:04:35.053 on the other side of it, pretty militant, cold, angry 0:04:35.093 --> 0:04:38.893 at times, and while he could come down to our 0:04:38.973 --> 0:04:42.093 level occasionally, it's always seemed off. He was off somewhere else, 0:04:42.133 --> 0:04:44.533 he was in his head. He was just somewhere else. 0:04:44.853 --> 0:04:48.333 So I didn't feel that grounded connection with him. Where 0:04:48.333 --> 0:04:51.893 we did connect was on an intellectual level. But you know, 0:04:51.933 --> 0:04:54.693 as young children, as the boy that I was, at 0:04:54.813 --> 0:04:57.853 least I longed for that deeper connection with my dad 0:04:58.453 --> 0:05:01.333 and he wasn't really able to meet me there. Wow, 0:05:01.413 --> 0:05:03.013 Darren and I were just talking. 0:05:03.213 --> 0:05:06.373 We recorded an episode previous to yours, and it was 0:05:06.653 --> 0:05:09.573 an episode we did together called anchoring in the present 0:05:09.613 --> 0:05:13.293 moment and the impact it can have when we're not there, 0:05:13.733 --> 0:05:16.373 when our body's there but our mind is elsewhere, especially 0:05:16.373 --> 0:05:22.333 when it comes to relationships father son, mother, daughter, parents, 0:05:22.413 --> 0:05:26.093 like or you know, your romantic relationship, and just the 0:05:26.213 --> 0:05:29.533 impact you know, especially these days, but even back then 0:05:30.133 --> 0:05:32.173 it can have. And it sounds like it had a 0:05:32.213 --> 0:05:35.533 tremendous impact on you with your dad really not being there. 0:05:35.853 --> 0:05:38.733 Yeah, he was physically present most of the time between 0:05:38.813 --> 0:05:43.253 zero and five. However, you know, he was emotionally, I think, 0:05:43.293 --> 0:05:46.133 disconnected from himself. So how could he be emotionally connected 0:05:46.173 --> 0:05:48.493 with us if he was disconnected from his own inner 0:05:48.493 --> 0:05:51.973 world in that way? He was always you know, I 0:05:52.013 --> 0:05:57.013 think often his thoughts and ideations and you know, his 0:05:57.133 --> 0:06:01.893 fantasies really and so I'd reckon with that. And I 0:06:02.453 --> 0:06:06.853 feel like children they intrinsically attuned to the environment, right, 0:06:06.973 --> 0:06:09.693 The children are so wise, but they're just like absorbing 0:06:09.733 --> 0:06:12.573 all the information in the environment, and so a part 0:06:12.613 --> 0:06:15.573 of me felt rejected, even though my dad was there 0:06:15.933 --> 0:06:17.453 and he you know, I don't even know if he 0:06:17.493 --> 0:06:19.653 actually said the words I love you or anything like that, 0:06:21.413 --> 0:06:25.733 but i'trinsically picked up that there was a disconnect between 0:06:25.813 --> 0:06:29.373 us and I, you know, children myself included, took that 0:06:29.493 --> 0:06:32.653 as there's something wrong with me. There's something wrong with 0:06:32.693 --> 0:06:34.933 me that my father is not taking the interest that 0:06:35.013 --> 0:06:38.573 I desire from him. He's not taking he's not seeing 0:06:38.653 --> 0:06:42.293 me right, he's not here with me. And so I 0:06:42.333 --> 0:06:46.373 interpreted that as there's something wrong with me. You know, 0:06:46.413 --> 0:06:49.533 there's something intrinsically wrong with me, and that's shame, right, 0:06:49.573 --> 0:06:51.933 there was shame there there's something wrong with me. I'm 0:06:52.053 --> 0:06:55.253 bad or I'm wrong or something off or I would 0:06:55.253 --> 0:06:56.293 be loved by my dad. 0:06:56.693 --> 0:06:59.293 Can you can you think about and what comes up 0:06:59.333 --> 0:07:00.973 for you? And if I we ask, like what was 0:07:01.013 --> 0:07:03.093 an early memory of pain? 0:07:05.173 --> 0:07:09.853 Well, my father was you know also you know, a 0:07:09.853 --> 0:07:13.293 physical disciplinarian. So even at the age of three, you know, 0:07:13.933 --> 0:07:16.733 we things had to be a certain way and if 0:07:16.733 --> 0:07:18.733 they were not that way, or if maybe we broke 0:07:18.773 --> 0:07:22.293 a dish or spilt something, you know, you know, pick 0:07:22.573 --> 0:07:24.453 he picked me up and he just spank me, you know, 0:07:24.493 --> 0:07:26.453 and that was a I think a very shocking and 0:07:26.493 --> 0:07:29.533 startling realization that created a lot of fear in me 0:07:29.573 --> 0:07:31.733 as a boy. I'd be running through the house and 0:07:31.733 --> 0:07:33.453 he'd be chasing me, you know, to give me a 0:07:33.453 --> 0:07:37.853 good wallop. And for him, in his paradigm, that just normal, right, 0:07:37.853 --> 0:07:42.173 that's good parenting even but for a little three year 0:07:42.173 --> 0:07:45.133 old boy, dad's scary. 0:07:45.933 --> 0:07:46.173 You know. 0:07:46.453 --> 0:07:49.653 I was afraid of my father and I equally loved him, 0:07:49.773 --> 0:07:52.293 and so there's just like dichotomy of like, I love 0:07:52.373 --> 0:07:56.333 this man who's my dad, and he's not loving me 0:07:56.533 --> 0:07:59.613 and seeing me as I long to be loved and seen. 0:08:01.613 --> 0:08:03.973 So I think that that's definitely an early pain point. 0:08:04.013 --> 0:08:07.933 Another pain point for me was just the chaos and 0:08:07.973 --> 0:08:11.813 the dysfunction within their dynamic between my mother and father 0:08:11.973 --> 0:08:14.893 just always fighting. There was no harmony. It was it 0:08:14.933 --> 0:08:17.213 always seemed like things were on edge and there was 0:08:17.253 --> 0:08:20.333 this tension in the air, and that it doesn't feel 0:08:20.373 --> 0:08:23.413 good to be around an environment where I felt like 0:08:23.453 --> 0:08:25.293 I either kind of walk on eggshells or we kind 0:08:25.333 --> 0:08:28.293 of just adapted, you know, or I'd escape off into 0:08:28.333 --> 0:08:34.813 my imagination. So there wasn't a sense of full safety 0:08:34.893 --> 0:08:38.133 and security in my household. And I think as a 0:08:38.133 --> 0:08:40.373 young boy, as a young child, that's very painful to 0:08:40.453 --> 0:08:44.893 reckon with. And so yeah, that was really the early 0:08:45.893 --> 0:08:49.733 the early foundations as this there's not a sense of 0:08:49.733 --> 0:08:56.093 safety and security, and that was very challenging to move through. 0:08:56.253 --> 0:08:59.653 I've heard you say this on another podcast when I 0:08:59.693 --> 0:09:01.733 was listening to you a while back, that you said 0:09:01.773 --> 0:09:05.613 my parents did not know how to communicate matters of 0:09:05.653 --> 0:09:08.853 the heart, and the way that you articulated that was 0:09:08.973 --> 0:09:13.853 like wow, that that awareness and that understanding to be 0:09:13.893 --> 0:09:16.333 able to see that and understand why they did what 0:09:16.413 --> 0:09:18.693 they did, and also the impact that it had on 0:09:18.773 --> 0:09:22.053 us was really really powerful. Those words really hit me. 0:09:22.693 --> 0:09:25.733 Yeah, I mean communication is so key in all relationships. 0:09:25.733 --> 0:09:30.213 It's our capacity to communicate and translate our inner experience 0:09:30.253 --> 0:09:33.613 and perspective to convey that to others in a way 0:09:33.653 --> 0:09:36.693 that they can understand and receive. That creates that reciprocity 0:09:36.733 --> 0:09:40.293 between us, that creates the foundation where we can really 0:09:40.293 --> 0:09:42.293 see eye to eye and heart to heart as human 0:09:42.333 --> 0:09:45.493 beings say like oh, you know, I see myself and 0:09:45.573 --> 0:09:48.333 you and you can see yourself and me. And it's 0:09:48.373 --> 0:09:52.373 that mutuality that creates that rapport, that resonance that we 0:09:52.453 --> 0:09:54.653 love like as humans were, you know, we love it 0:09:54.693 --> 0:09:56.573 when we vibe with another we're like, we just hit 0:09:56.613 --> 0:09:58.853 it off and we're just a vibe and it's just easeful. 0:09:59.293 --> 0:10:01.533 Whereas it is someone that we don't necessarily vibe with, 0:10:01.573 --> 0:10:04.093 you can just feel that tension. And the only way 0:10:04.093 --> 0:10:06.013 to break through that tension, which I believe is like 0:10:06.013 --> 0:10:11.853 the unconscious, unresolved energetic of our past or somatic past. 0:10:13.013 --> 0:10:14.933 But to be able to bridge that through language and 0:10:14.973 --> 0:10:19.493 communication is powerful. And so yeah, I feel like not 0:10:19.573 --> 0:10:24.133 being understood in my household, seeing dysfunctional communication and really 0:10:24.253 --> 0:10:27.573 not being able to convey and communicate even with myself 0:10:27.573 --> 0:10:29.373 and to know my own needs and to be able 0:10:29.373 --> 0:10:31.853 to convey and communicate that to the world. And so 0:10:31.933 --> 0:10:34.133 it's been a long journey to be able to become 0:10:34.213 --> 0:10:40.693 fluent in communication, in emotional, in intra communication, the inner 0:10:40.693 --> 0:10:42.973 communication with my deeper self with God. 0:10:43.133 --> 0:10:48.293 You know, obear, I'm in awe of your journey into 0:10:48.533 --> 0:10:50.933 how you've gotten into the place where you are now, 0:10:51.053 --> 0:10:54.253 just the servant that you are and just the wisdom 0:10:54.293 --> 0:10:57.173 that you radiate, And I feel like a fascinating part 0:10:57.213 --> 0:10:59.853 of your journey that I'd like to dive into a 0:10:59.893 --> 0:11:03.533 little bit is you grew up in an atheist household. 0:11:04.813 --> 0:11:07.693 I don't think I've ever had a conversation with somebody 0:11:07.693 --> 0:11:12.933 that is an atheist or that was a part of 0:11:13.013 --> 0:11:17.573 their lifestyle. Could you explain like what that was like? Yeah, 0:11:17.573 --> 0:11:19.973 for the first twenty something years of your life, I 0:11:19.973 --> 0:11:21.053 believe you said, what was that like? 0:11:21.213 --> 0:11:25.533 Yeah, yeah, it was bleak's that's a word that comes 0:11:25.533 --> 0:11:29.533 to mind, because this is all there is, right, There's 0:11:29.573 --> 0:11:33.773 no magic, there's no spirit, there's no invisible world. This 0:11:33.853 --> 0:11:39.093 is what you get, and it's just random, right, We're 0:11:39.133 --> 0:11:42.573 just all here like a consequence of you know, billions 0:11:42.573 --> 0:11:44.533 of years of evolution and we're kind of a fluke. 0:11:44.533 --> 0:11:48.133 We're just out here floating in space, and there's no 0:11:48.293 --> 0:11:51.613 higher order to things. Everything's just chaos. Everything just happens 0:11:51.653 --> 0:11:54.053 because it happens that way, because it's a dog eat 0:11:54.093 --> 0:11:58.893 dog world, right, and the strong survive and the weak perish. 0:11:59.693 --> 0:12:03.253 And you know, having my father who was you know, 0:12:03.293 --> 0:12:06.093 he was raised in a his mother was very religious. 0:12:06.133 --> 0:12:09.253 His father wasn't, but his mother was like extremely Christian, 0:12:09.893 --> 0:12:14.653 and I think that dynamic created this repulsion for him. Again, 0:12:14.773 --> 0:12:17.173 it was like he was even against he was against religion. 0:12:17.213 --> 0:12:19.453 It wasn't just like there's no God. It was like 0:12:20.093 --> 0:12:25.253 anybody that's religious is suspect. They're they're like feeble minded, 0:12:25.773 --> 0:12:28.813 or they're afraid, or they're you know, believing in fairy tales. 0:12:28.853 --> 0:12:32.053 Here like we need to live in reality. And so 0:12:32.093 --> 0:12:37.013 there's a big judgment against spirituality, against any religion, against 0:12:37.533 --> 0:12:42.253 even like traditions, right, even like cultural traditions. And so 0:12:42.333 --> 0:12:46.773 it was very it was devoid of a deeper sense 0:12:46.773 --> 0:12:49.013 of meaning and purpose of life, like why are we 0:12:49.053 --> 0:12:51.813 all here? And so I really struggled with that of 0:12:51.853 --> 0:12:56.093 like why is life feel like it's just pain and 0:12:56.213 --> 0:12:58.333 just suffering? Like why am i here? I did not 0:12:58.453 --> 0:13:01.413 ask to be here, and I didn't have a deeper 0:13:01.533 --> 0:13:05.853 roadmap to understand myself in relationship to what all of 0:13:05.893 --> 0:13:08.093 this is. What is this reality that I'm a part 0:13:08.173 --> 0:13:12.493 of outside of like the scientific materialism that my father 0:13:12.653 --> 0:13:15.853 was very you know, knowledgeable of. You know, he was 0:13:15.893 --> 0:13:18.613 a mining engineer, he spoke five languages, he was very 0:13:18.613 --> 0:13:22.653 well versed in world history and war and all these things. 0:13:23.973 --> 0:13:26.893 But in the matters of the heart, he was you know, 0:13:27.293 --> 0:13:32.333 an infant, he wasn't able to have healthy functioning relationships 0:13:32.333 --> 0:13:36.933 and really in any capacity, i'd say, across the board. 0:13:38.133 --> 0:13:41.093 So it was tough. It was tough, and I feel 0:13:41.133 --> 0:13:43.573 like in many ways, as I, you know, went through 0:13:43.573 --> 0:13:48.373 my awakening, I reck I understood the perfection of it all, 0:13:48.413 --> 0:13:51.253 of having the father and mother that I did, and 0:13:51.333 --> 0:13:57.693 of feeling feeling the pain of having no higher power, 0:13:57.813 --> 0:14:01.133 no creator, no cosmic order to this and having to 0:14:01.213 --> 0:14:04.853 go without that and not being able to really makes 0:14:04.893 --> 0:14:07.733 sense of reality other than like we're all fucked. This 0:14:07.893 --> 0:14:11.013 is just it is what it is. You know. Everybody 0:14:11.133 --> 0:14:14.733 lives the way they want and that's it. And I 0:14:14.893 --> 0:14:19.013 followed that dictate to my own demise, right seeking, pleasure seeking, 0:14:19.333 --> 0:14:23.693 status seeking, you know, to be perceived as someone because 0:14:23.733 --> 0:14:27.373 on the inside I felt like nothing, I felt worthless. 0:14:28.013 --> 0:14:30.293 To what ends do you feel like you had to 0:14:30.293 --> 0:14:33.413 go to to to cope with that bleakness and that 0:14:34.333 --> 0:14:38.093 hopelessness and the futility? Like where did that take you? 0:14:38.093 --> 0:14:40.213 You know? It was fun at first, you know, it 0:14:40.253 --> 0:14:43.013 took me into i would say, the rave scene, the 0:14:43.053 --> 0:14:47.093 party scene, which really did expand and open my world. 0:14:47.293 --> 0:14:50.973 You know, some of these entheogens these these you know 0:14:51.053 --> 0:14:55.693 drugs as they were, they did like md M A 0:14:55.853 --> 0:14:58.453 for one, you know, ecstasy, It did kind of give 0:14:58.493 --> 0:15:01.213 me this sense of wow, like this feels amazing and 0:15:01.733 --> 0:15:04.013 I've never felt like this before, and is this this 0:15:04.053 --> 0:15:07.773 is possible? This feeling is love, right, this is like 0:15:08.053 --> 0:15:11.893 something I've never felt before. And even being in that scene, 0:15:11.933 --> 0:15:14.533 you know, there's a camaraderie that forms with others. You know, 0:15:14.533 --> 0:15:17.453 there's a sense of belonging to these groups of people 0:15:17.533 --> 0:15:19.893 that you know, we share the interest of partying and 0:15:20.173 --> 0:15:23.413 maybe some other stuff. But like, I feel like it 0:15:23.493 --> 0:15:26.173 started out fun, you know, it was partying, It was 0:15:26.213 --> 0:15:32.733 good fun. But then it increasingly I declined or degraded, 0:15:32.853 --> 0:15:35.813 I would say, into like more of the you know, 0:15:35.893 --> 0:15:39.013 dependent upon the drugs. Right, there was more of a 0:15:39.053 --> 0:15:42.453 seeking of that of like going harder, of going deeper, 0:15:42.493 --> 0:15:46.093 of going further, and that brought me into addiction, the 0:15:46.133 --> 0:15:49.253 depths of addiction. And it was then that I realized 0:15:49.293 --> 0:15:54.733 that even though I knew it was harming me, I 0:15:54.813 --> 0:15:58.213 wasn't able to resist. Often there was that time I 0:15:58.253 --> 0:16:00.173 believe that I had a strong mind and that I 0:16:00.213 --> 0:16:03.293 could make choices for myself, but it was addiction that 0:16:03.373 --> 0:16:07.453 really humbled me and had me doubting myself because before that, 0:16:07.573 --> 0:16:11.613 I really, you know, I think somewhere along the line, 0:16:11.693 --> 0:16:15.773 I did start to believe that I had something in me. 0:16:16.733 --> 0:16:18.333 I couldn't put my finger on it, but I would. 0:16:18.373 --> 0:16:20.373 I was willing to take risks. You know, I felt 0:16:20.413 --> 0:16:23.013 a sense of deeper confidence that wasn't coming from the 0:16:23.053 --> 0:16:26.013 outer I didn't know how to articulate that that was 0:16:26.093 --> 0:16:28.973 the soul that I am expressing itself and feeling like 0:16:30.173 --> 0:16:36.773 there's more underneath the surface that I'm still uncovering. But 0:16:36.933 --> 0:16:41.093 through that and being humbled by not being in control, 0:16:41.133 --> 0:16:45.333 basically of losing control of my own will and volition 0:16:45.653 --> 0:16:48.293 to make choices for myself that would either harm myself 0:16:48.373 --> 0:16:54.053 or better myself, that's really where where the where that 0:16:54.213 --> 0:16:57.893 worldview collided, right because it was like now here, I 0:16:57.933 --> 0:17:04.413 am no God, no religious construct, no structure, really left 0:17:04.613 --> 0:17:07.533 my own devices, right like I can do whatever I want. 0:17:08.773 --> 0:17:11.333 And in that not having like an ethical true north, 0:17:11.773 --> 0:17:15.013 not having a path forward that I could say I'm 0:17:15.053 --> 0:17:16.973 starting here and this is where I want to go. 0:17:17.853 --> 0:17:21.093 Because you know, in my early twenties, a lot of 0:17:21.133 --> 0:17:23.533 my friends they went off into their four year schools 0:17:24.173 --> 0:17:27.453 and I ended up you know, going to jail, you know, 0:17:27.573 --> 0:17:30.173 and I was arrested for possession for sales and had 0:17:30.213 --> 0:17:33.333 my first experience in jail, in a county jail and 0:17:33.333 --> 0:17:36.573 men Central Jail in LA which is a full experience 0:17:36.613 --> 0:17:39.133 in and of itself, just to be in that world, 0:17:39.213 --> 0:17:41.653 to be around, you know, people who are facing twenty 0:17:41.653 --> 0:17:44.053 five to life or murder, being around gang members and 0:17:44.493 --> 0:17:50.053 experiencing their mindset, and you know, even having you know, 0:17:50.133 --> 0:17:54.533 people that are much older in you know, in encountering them, 0:17:54.573 --> 0:17:57.773 and it's like, wow, I'm seeing if I stay on 0:17:57.813 --> 0:18:00.133 this path, you know. And it seemed like that the 0:18:00.173 --> 0:18:05.333 people that were around me were progressively getting I would say, 0:18:07.253 --> 0:18:11.173 the outlook on life was getting more and more cutthroat 0:18:11.213 --> 0:18:13.213 and more and more bleak. You know, there's a lot 0:18:13.293 --> 0:18:16.693 more of the you know, criminal element. As I started 0:18:16.693 --> 0:18:21.813 going deeper and deeper into my addiction, so you know, 0:18:21.893 --> 0:18:28.333 not having a creator at the core and running away 0:18:28.333 --> 0:18:30.733 from my traumas, which is ultimately what you know, addiction 0:18:31.013 --> 0:18:32.733 was for me. It was like I didn't want to 0:18:32.733 --> 0:18:36.213 feel the pain of disconnection that I felt. I felt 0:18:36.213 --> 0:18:41.893 this emptiness inside gnawing at me of why don't I 0:18:41.933 --> 0:18:46.773 feel connected to anything deeply? Why don't I feel connected 0:18:47.573 --> 0:18:50.933 and able to access what it seems like other people 0:18:51.013 --> 0:18:54.493 around me, my peers, are able to access in the 0:18:54.613 --> 0:18:57.773 in the emotional sphere, and in the sphere of even 0:18:57.813 --> 0:19:02.293 desiring greater things for themselves that were not like just 0:19:02.333 --> 0:19:05.533 fleeting boyhood fantasies of how having more power and more 0:19:05.573 --> 0:19:06.293 fame or more. 0:19:06.133 --> 0:19:09.293 Status in the depths of our addiction, I think both 0:19:09.333 --> 0:19:11.133 Darreon and I did a lot of a lot of 0:19:11.213 --> 0:19:15.733 other drugs, but at its core, it was pills for us. 0:19:15.813 --> 0:19:18.213 What was it for you? And just how bad did 0:19:18.293 --> 0:19:18.493 it gain? 0:19:18.573 --> 0:19:18.733 Yeah? 0:19:18.773 --> 0:19:22.133 It was for me it was methamphetamine crystal, and it 0:19:22.173 --> 0:19:27.173 got really bad. I think at my when I was arrested, 0:19:27.213 --> 0:19:31.773 I was on like a four day binger, and I 0:19:31.853 --> 0:19:34.893 was I I'm six ' three and so at this 0:19:35.053 --> 0:19:40.613 time I was, I believe, one hundred and seventeen pounds. Yeah. Yeah. 0:19:40.613 --> 0:19:45.173 And so in losing myself like in like having no 0:19:47.173 --> 0:19:52.093 I would say spiritual north star, having no connection or 0:19:52.093 --> 0:19:56.013 at least conscious connection of of myself with the creator 0:19:56.133 --> 0:19:58.573 and and and that I'm a part of this magical, 0:19:59.293 --> 0:20:04.773 wondrous universe. I just I started destroying myself because I 0:20:04.773 --> 0:20:06.933 think at the core of that belief is I'm unworthy, 0:20:07.053 --> 0:20:10.493 I'm unlovable. There's these things that I interpreted as a 0:20:10.533 --> 0:20:14.213 boy from my environment that I carried over and you know, 0:20:14.333 --> 0:20:16.533 it crossed a point where a lot of my friends 0:20:16.573 --> 0:20:19.493 that were around me, because I always was fortunate to 0:20:19.533 --> 0:20:22.653 have very good groups of people around me. However, at 0:20:22.653 --> 0:20:25.493 a certain point my friends started letting me know, like, 0:20:25.533 --> 0:20:28.693 I can't support where you're going. I can't You're not 0:20:28.853 --> 0:20:31.493 like who you were. Because I started losing I think 0:20:31.533 --> 0:20:36.213 pieces of maybe what made me me, and as it 0:20:36.573 --> 0:20:42.053 was all stripped away, I feel like that was necessary 0:20:42.053 --> 0:20:44.773 in a sense of this stripping away of identity, of 0:20:44.933 --> 0:20:47.333 sense of self so that I can come to the 0:20:47.413 --> 0:20:50.453 rock bottom and really like, that's really what initiated my 0:20:50.533 --> 0:20:54.653 awakening and my connection to God was a prayer. It 0:20:54.773 --> 0:21:01.173 was that prayer of sinking so low into my own self, hatred, 0:21:01.293 --> 0:21:03.653 into addiction. You know, I had so much shame that 0:21:03.693 --> 0:21:06.853 I couldn't break out out of the addiction because I 0:21:06.893 --> 0:21:08.973 was living I was really living a double life because 0:21:09.013 --> 0:21:11.533 I was still you know, working full time and doing 0:21:11.533 --> 0:21:14.333 my best attend to my responsibilities to my family, my 0:21:14.373 --> 0:21:17.813 mother and my two sisters at the time, and I 0:21:17.893 --> 0:21:20.373 was the quote unquote man of the house. You know, 0:21:20.413 --> 0:21:22.693 I had left when I was nineteen, I'd left home. 0:21:23.013 --> 0:21:26.333 But then when I was twenty three, my mother reached 0:21:26.333 --> 0:21:28.693 out and said, we need help. You know, we're still 0:21:28.693 --> 0:21:31.733 in this two bedroom apartment. You know, we grew up 0:21:31.733 --> 0:21:34.093 in from middle school, and they're still in this two 0:21:34.093 --> 0:21:36.773 bedroom department apartment not on the best side of town, 0:21:37.533 --> 0:21:39.813 and they were struggling. And I had kind of gone 0:21:39.813 --> 0:21:42.973 off on my own to like live my life, and 0:21:43.053 --> 0:21:44.893 my mom reaches out and says, you know, we need 0:21:44.933 --> 0:21:47.933 your help. And I had a relatively decent it job 0:21:47.933 --> 0:21:51.733 at the time, and so since I was doing pretty 0:21:51.773 --> 0:21:53.533 poorly at the time, I was like, you know what, 0:21:53.573 --> 0:21:55.693 maybe this is best. And so I said, okay, yeah, 0:21:55.973 --> 0:21:58.293 I'll come and we can move out and find a 0:21:58.333 --> 0:22:01.613 place together, and we can help my sister who had 0:22:02.293 --> 0:22:04.893 Schitzo effective disorder, which is kind of like a cross 0:22:04.973 --> 0:22:08.853 between bipolar disorder and schizophrenia, and so she was hearing voices, 0:22:09.053 --> 0:22:11.973 she was like on six different meds. It was intense 0:22:12.013 --> 0:22:16.213 to witness her journey. But it was in moving back 0:22:16.293 --> 0:22:20.173 in with my family and saying this is what's going 0:22:20.253 --> 0:22:22.573 to make me quit the addiction. I'm going to I 0:22:22.613 --> 0:22:24.813 have my family that needs me. I'm going to be 0:22:24.853 --> 0:22:29.053 able to quit the drugs and help them. And in 0:22:29.213 --> 0:22:31.533 not being able to do that and breaking the promise 0:22:31.573 --> 0:22:35.133 to myself, I just felt so much shame. You know. 0:22:35.173 --> 0:22:37.693 I felt a lot of shame because I had already 0:22:37.733 --> 0:22:39.933 been to jail, I'd already been through all that, and I, 0:22:40.013 --> 0:22:43.013 you know, I climbed my way out just on my 0:22:43.093 --> 0:22:45.893 own accord. I you know, started going to the gym. 0:22:46.013 --> 0:22:48.613 I quit the addiction for a time, and I started 0:22:48.613 --> 0:22:51.613 working out in eating rite and running and doing all 0:22:51.613 --> 0:22:53.213 these things were good for me. I you know, built 0:22:53.253 --> 0:22:55.013 up my weight to like two hundred pounds. I felt 0:22:55.133 --> 0:22:58.853 very strong, very fit. And then I fell back in. 0:22:59.253 --> 0:23:04.613 I relapsed, and it took me took me down. It 0:23:04.653 --> 0:23:06.973 took me down. I was in a really bad headspace, 0:23:07.813 --> 0:23:12.253 and ultimately I came to the point of really thinking 0:23:12.253 --> 0:23:14.533 about ending my life a lot. I started at first, 0:23:14.573 --> 0:23:17.253 it started out as ideation, as kind of this, like 0:23:17.813 --> 0:23:20.293 that's maybe what I need to do, you know. It 0:23:20.333 --> 0:23:22.333 started out from that point to like getting to a 0:23:22.373 --> 0:23:25.053 really dark place where one night it was like that's 0:23:25.053 --> 0:23:27.413 what I need to do. That's the solution to everything. 0:23:28.053 --> 0:23:30.253 Like here, I am being a burden too society, being 0:23:30.293 --> 0:23:32.613 a burden to my family, even though that wasn't the 0:23:32.693 --> 0:23:35.933 case because I was financially providing, I was helping out 0:23:35.933 --> 0:23:40.053 my family. But it's that distorted perspective of self and 0:23:40.373 --> 0:23:44.493 of life that, you know, it really kind of twisted 0:23:44.533 --> 0:23:48.293 the knife into me, into my heart and into my soul. 0:23:49.093 --> 0:23:51.573 And so I just felt I felt the intensity of 0:23:51.573 --> 0:23:54.173 feeling just worthless, of feeling all that shame, of feeling 0:23:54.213 --> 0:23:57.373 like I didn't deserve to live. And that brought me 0:23:57.453 --> 0:24:01.333 the point of, you know what, let me do the world, 0:24:01.373 --> 0:24:03.053 and let me do my family a favor, let me 0:24:03.133 --> 0:24:07.933 just end my life. That was That was it. That 0:24:08.093 --> 0:24:12.293 was it. And being in that place and really resigning 0:24:12.333 --> 0:24:17.053 myself to death, resigning myself to non existence, because that's 0:24:17.053 --> 0:24:19.813 what I thought death would bring, just non existence. I 0:24:19.813 --> 0:24:24.493 don't exist anymore. I'm just gone, right. But it was 0:24:24.533 --> 0:24:27.853 in that experience where I was I set out to 0:24:27.933 --> 0:24:30.573 end my life. I was alone in my room, I 0:24:30.613 --> 0:24:35.253 had my knives, and I was ready to go, and 0:24:36.293 --> 0:24:40.213 I started grieving. I started grieving my life and what 0:24:40.533 --> 0:24:43.893 was and what could have been, and just started feeling 0:24:45.933 --> 0:24:49.173 devastated to have to leave, but even knowing that this 0:24:49.293 --> 0:24:52.293 is the only way, and then coming to a point 0:24:52.293 --> 0:24:56.213 where something deep within me cried out. It wasn't even 0:24:56.253 --> 0:24:59.213 like my voice. It wasn't even it didn't feel like 0:24:59.253 --> 0:25:02.053 me at the time, because I wasn't living in my 0:25:02.173 --> 0:25:05.413 heart and soul, and so I feel it was the 0:25:05.453 --> 0:25:08.853 deeper part of me cried out to God, cried out 0:25:08.613 --> 0:25:11.813 to the creator and said, God, if you're real, I 0:25:11.853 --> 0:25:15.093 need to know. And it was this prayer from the 0:25:15.133 --> 0:25:17.773 depths of me because I was determined to end my 0:25:17.813 --> 0:25:20.533 life that night, and I feel like it was this 0:25:20.613 --> 0:25:24.733 last stitch effort from my soul to say, hey, we're 0:25:24.733 --> 0:25:29.293 going the wrong way, and in calling out and saying 0:25:29.333 --> 0:25:34.493 that prayer and making that prayer from my depths, God responded. 0:25:35.093 --> 0:25:39.933 God responded, and I was enveloped in a vibrating energy 0:25:39.973 --> 0:25:44.333 that I'd never experienced before. I've never experienced anything like this, 0:25:45.213 --> 0:25:48.893 and it was so foreign at first that I didn't 0:25:48.933 --> 0:25:52.533 even know what it was. It felt like this really 0:25:52.573 --> 0:25:55.053 fast vibration that was just outside of me at first 0:25:55.093 --> 0:25:57.413 that I perceived it as filling my room. This vibrating 0:25:57.533 --> 0:25:59.933 energy and it kind of tripped me out at first 0:25:59.973 --> 0:26:02.213 because I was like, what is this? And then it 0:26:02.253 --> 0:26:08.373 came inside me and washed away in that instant all 0:26:08.413 --> 0:26:11.293 the grief, all the agony, all the pain, all the 0:26:12.093 --> 0:26:15.213 chaos that was swirling in me, and it was just 0:26:15.253 --> 0:26:21.493 like calm. It was just absolute peace. And I just 0:26:21.493 --> 0:26:24.773 started sobbing. I just started sobbing as I was held 0:26:24.813 --> 0:26:28.293 by the Creator. It felt like being held by all 0:26:28.373 --> 0:26:31.053 loving mother and father. I describe it as it felt 0:26:31.053 --> 0:26:33.173 like I was now a little baby and I was 0:26:33.213 --> 0:26:35.853 just being cradled like I had never been cradled in 0:26:35.853 --> 0:26:41.813 my life. And I just wept. I wept in joy, 0:26:41.853 --> 0:26:47.893 I wept in gratitude, and I gave my life to God. 0:26:48.173 --> 0:26:52.973 I said, don't ever leave me. And it was communicating, 0:26:53.053 --> 0:26:56.213 wasn't I wasn't verbalizing this. It was just all internal. 0:26:56.893 --> 0:26:59.253 And so being able to communicate and be heard and 0:26:59.293 --> 0:27:06.533 receive responses was it fundamentally transform my perception of the world, 0:27:06.533 --> 0:27:09.333 the perception of life, and perception of myself. Because suddenly 0:27:09.893 --> 0:27:13.053 where I felt absolutely worth, worthless one moment about to 0:27:13.133 --> 0:27:17.133 end my life, and then to be saved and to 0:27:17.173 --> 0:27:19.533 be held and to be loved and to be reminded 0:27:19.613 --> 0:27:23.693 that I'm not alone and that God loves me, that 0:27:23.813 --> 0:27:26.733 I am loved, and to feel that love, right, we 0:27:26.813 --> 0:27:29.533 hear it in words, but to feel it in this 0:27:29.733 --> 0:27:35.373 all consuming energy and to feel it in my heart. 0:27:35.613 --> 0:27:38.053 You know, that's really the powerful That was the most 0:27:38.093 --> 0:27:40.173 powerful part of it is that it gave me access 0:27:40.213 --> 0:27:43.453 to my heart because before, you know, maybe I'd feel 0:27:43.653 --> 0:27:46.973 what I thought was love on ecstasy or in certain 0:27:47.013 --> 0:27:53.093 infatuations relationally, but this was something different. It was something 0:27:53.133 --> 0:27:58.293 that my soul recognized, something deeper, and it left an 0:27:58.293 --> 0:28:03.013 indelible mark upon me and completely shifted my trajectory in life. 0:28:03.253 --> 0:28:07.253 I love, love, love how much you and we will 0:28:07.253 --> 0:28:10.173 probably continue to talk about God, and I know for 0:28:10.253 --> 0:28:13.373 some people they'll be really inspired and some maybe triggered 0:28:13.533 --> 0:28:14.373 or uncomfortable. 0:28:14.413 --> 0:28:16.573 But that's even more reason to keep talking about it. 0:28:16.973 --> 0:28:19.733 But I'm just curious for you, this idea or as 0:28:19.773 --> 0:28:26.133 it came in, was not through any type of structured religion, right, 0:28:26.253 --> 0:28:28.413 So maybe you can talk a little bit about that 0:28:28.573 --> 0:28:32.173 and what or who God is to you today. 0:28:33.373 --> 0:28:36.853 Yeah, I feel like that was probably the only path 0:28:37.453 --> 0:28:40.333 into relationship with God for me in this life. It 0:28:40.373 --> 0:28:44.053 took me about to leave this earth to reach out, 0:28:44.293 --> 0:28:46.893 and so maybe that speaks to something from the past, 0:28:47.293 --> 0:28:50.973 you know, past lives. Maybe I was really stubborn. I'm 0:28:50.973 --> 0:28:52.813 a tourus in this life, so maybe there I do 0:28:52.893 --> 0:28:58.133 have that stubborn element and to experience that level of 0:28:58.173 --> 0:29:04.693 redemption for me in my own room in this I've 0:29:04.813 --> 0:29:07.453 experienced that I didn't tell anybody for so many years. 0:29:07.493 --> 0:29:09.933 It was just a part of like my path and 0:29:09.973 --> 0:29:12.813 I was very alone as I left off the world 0:29:12.813 --> 0:29:17.333 of drugs and partying and just like recklessness and then 0:29:17.333 --> 0:29:21.213 started to write my life bit by bit. But it 0:29:21.333 --> 0:29:27.213 was really experiencing God, not only from that experience, but 0:29:27.333 --> 0:29:31.213 knowing that now that I understood, and I started exploring 0:29:31.253 --> 0:29:33.573 the different world religions from that point of having a 0:29:33.573 --> 0:29:36.933 direct experience. Now I was able to connect so many 0:29:36.973 --> 0:29:40.333 dots as I started exploring and praying with different houses 0:29:40.373 --> 0:29:44.373 of worship, you know, visiting the Christian churches, visiting different 0:29:44.453 --> 0:29:48.133 Hindu temples, going to the Buddhist sanctuaries, you know, just 0:29:48.213 --> 0:29:53.373 having having the desire, the genuine desire now to search 0:29:53.413 --> 0:29:57.333 and understand. Okay, now that I know that God is real, 0:29:57.813 --> 0:30:01.853 let me see what everybody's talking about and feel what 0:30:01.933 --> 0:30:04.973 they do like to connect with God. Now that I've 0:30:04.973 --> 0:30:07.213 connected with God so deeply and I feel that God's 0:30:07.213 --> 0:30:10.453 a part of me forever, I want to continue to 0:30:10.533 --> 0:30:14.573 do my part to cultivate that relationship, to lean into 0:30:15.853 --> 0:30:18.693 the source of my existence and the source of all existence. 0:30:18.693 --> 0:30:22.253 There's nothing more important than for me to align with 0:30:22.333 --> 0:30:25.933 the source of all existence. And so that led me 0:30:25.973 --> 0:30:28.493 on a big quest and journey to study the different 0:30:28.493 --> 0:30:31.373 world religions and to practice them so that I could 0:30:31.453 --> 0:30:34.533 feel what it was like to pray with different peoples 0:30:34.933 --> 0:30:37.773 because there's so much religious divide still. You know, Christian 0:30:37.853 --> 0:30:41.293 see things very this way, Islam sees it very this way. 0:30:41.653 --> 0:30:45.213 But it's like, well, we're all talking about God, right, 0:30:46.053 --> 0:30:48.253 or it's all coming back to the source of all 0:30:48.293 --> 0:30:52.173 of this, right, There can only be one. And I 0:30:52.213 --> 0:30:55.973 think that in our humanness we missed the point. Sometimes 0:30:55.973 --> 0:30:58.853 we missed the mark. And so I think coming from 0:30:59.253 --> 0:31:01.453 a place where I was void of all of that 0:31:01.733 --> 0:31:05.133 religious programming and indoctrination, I was just kind of a slate. 0:31:06.133 --> 0:31:08.533 But then it came to life with that direct experience 0:31:08.533 --> 0:31:13.973 of God, of love of the Divine. Now things that 0:31:14.053 --> 0:31:17.333 resonate with the love that I experienced. It was like boom' 0:31:17.573 --> 0:31:20.773 that's true. Yes, I know that's right. And then there's 0:31:20.813 --> 0:31:23.733 one stuff that like, I'm like, that doesn't resonate, that 0:31:23.773 --> 0:31:26.813 doesn't feel like the God that I experienced, That doesn't 0:31:26.813 --> 0:31:28.973 feel like the God that I experienced? Why would God 0:31:29.013 --> 0:31:32.413 say that or expect this? And so I kind of 0:31:32.453 --> 0:31:36.933 had a true north that was that was aligned by 0:31:36.973 --> 0:31:40.333 the Creator in my direct experience and through studying the 0:31:40.333 --> 0:31:43.013 different world religions. I think it gave me breadth because 0:31:43.013 --> 0:31:45.933 I had the depth of experience from that first mystical 0:31:45.973 --> 0:31:48.853 experience that changed me. But now I needed to cultivate 0:31:48.853 --> 0:31:50.893 the breadth of understanding of what was out there in 0:31:50.933 --> 0:31:53.973 the world and like kind of cross correlate, like does 0:31:54.013 --> 0:31:57.093 this resonate, does this feel true? Does this make sense? 0:31:57.573 --> 0:32:01.493 Is this a cohesive way that I can deepen my 0:32:01.573 --> 0:32:04.053 relationship with the Creator or does it feel like there's 0:32:04.093 --> 0:32:08.733 like some kind of outer standard that is imposed that 0:32:08.813 --> 0:32:10.413 I feel like a lot of religions kind of do 0:32:11.013 --> 0:32:13.533 you know in how they've kind of degraded over thousands 0:32:13.573 --> 0:32:17.573 of years to like these outer expectations rather than the 0:32:17.613 --> 0:32:19.973 inner lived experience of what it is to be in 0:32:20.093 --> 0:32:23.973 union with God, to be in love with God. And 0:32:24.013 --> 0:32:27.213 since God exists within everybody, right, God is growing in 0:32:27.253 --> 0:32:30.773 everyone and everything in all life. How am I showing 0:32:30.853 --> 0:32:32.973 up in all of my relationships? And how am I 0:32:33.053 --> 0:32:37.173 showing up in my relationships with nature? And so what 0:32:37.173 --> 0:32:38.933 it really did was it forced me to make an 0:32:38.973 --> 0:32:41.213 inventory of how I had been up to that point 0:32:41.773 --> 0:32:45.173 and to do my best to begin to rectify these 0:32:45.333 --> 0:32:48.813 kind of character defects that came from not having that blueprint, 0:32:48.933 --> 0:32:51.333 not having the map to understand how to live a 0:32:51.413 --> 0:32:55.733 righteous life, to live in alignment. And so began a 0:32:55.773 --> 0:33:01.013 period of deep self exploration and honesty. Or I had 0:33:01.013 --> 0:33:04.413 to own take ownership for a lot of the ways 0:33:04.573 --> 0:33:07.373 I had been out of integrity and how I'd hurt 0:33:07.413 --> 0:33:10.373 a lot of people because I really didn't have that 0:33:11.013 --> 0:33:14.093 ethical north star. I didn't have that handed to me, 0:33:14.213 --> 0:33:16.093 and the way that my parents modeled love to me 0:33:16.173 --> 0:33:19.013 was very dysfunctional, and so I hurt a lot of 0:33:19.013 --> 0:33:22.693 people along the way. And finding God for me helped 0:33:22.693 --> 0:33:27.373 me reconcile the mistakes I had made in my ignorance, 0:33:27.493 --> 0:33:30.173 in my own pain, and then to have the resolve 0:33:30.253 --> 0:33:32.813 to go out step by step, bit by bit and 0:33:33.293 --> 0:33:35.813 change that. And so a lot of the old people 0:33:35.813 --> 0:33:37.773 that I used to hang out with, and a lot 0:33:37.773 --> 0:33:41.773 of my friends from school when they met me after everything, like, 0:33:42.693 --> 0:33:47.493 you know, people don't really change. That's like I think 0:33:47.533 --> 0:33:50.013 a belief out there. People don't really change. But they're like, wow, 0:33:50.093 --> 0:33:55.893 you've really changed, You've really changed. And I took that 0:33:55.973 --> 0:34:00.173 as a big encouragement, you know, because now my inner 0:34:00.173 --> 0:34:02.613 world was starting to align with the outer world in 0:34:02.653 --> 0:34:06.213 a way which brought greater peace, which brought greater harmony, 0:34:06.373 --> 0:34:08.333 and there was just greater flow. 0:34:09.013 --> 0:34:09.173 You know. 0:34:09.213 --> 0:34:12.093 It wasn't just like me getting my way and going 0:34:12.133 --> 0:34:15.533 after what I wanted or desired. It was looking for 0:34:15.573 --> 0:34:19.253 the higher the highest outcome in every different situation. And 0:34:19.293 --> 0:34:22.133 sometimes it's like, you know, driving by someone and their 0:34:22.133 --> 0:34:24.333 cars broken down, and we have that split second to 0:34:24.333 --> 0:34:26.533 make a decision. Am I going to show up and 0:34:26.573 --> 0:34:28.413 help this person that looks like they could use some 0:34:28.453 --> 0:34:31.133 help they're standing out there looking bewildered, Or am I 0:34:31.173 --> 0:34:33.013 just going to drive by and think someone else will 0:34:33.053 --> 0:34:37.013 get it? And so it gave me that the impetus 0:34:37.053 --> 0:34:39.933 to just take action and help in whatever way I could, 0:34:40.093 --> 0:34:42.333 to really serve. And so that really started this like 0:34:42.813 --> 0:34:48.213 informal training of really practicing what I felt in my heart, 0:34:48.453 --> 0:34:50.813 of really having so many opportunities to just try my 0:34:50.893 --> 0:34:53.853 best to help people and sometimes you know, it didn't 0:34:53.893 --> 0:34:56.973 work out. I learned a lot of lessons in trying 0:34:57.093 --> 0:35:00.453 my best to help everyone I could and realized through 0:35:00.493 --> 0:35:03.253 the process that I can't help everybody. I can do 0:35:03.373 --> 0:35:09.093 my best to help who At this point, I've cultivated 0:35:09.093 --> 0:35:11.533 wisdom to know who I can help and who I 0:35:11.533 --> 0:35:14.613 really can't help, Like life has to sometimes teach people 0:35:15.333 --> 0:35:19.133 before they're ready to learn, right before they're open enough 0:35:19.493 --> 0:35:20.893 to be guided. 0:35:21.733 --> 0:35:26.093 That's so powerful because I feel like a lot of 0:35:26.613 --> 0:35:30.093 I mean, I needed an experience that was, you know, 0:35:30.453 --> 0:35:33.813 devastating in its own right, but ultimately led me to 0:35:35.213 --> 0:35:38.333 experience God. I had to go through addiction, I had 0:35:38.333 --> 0:35:43.853 to go through a trans almost a transactional relationship with 0:35:43.973 --> 0:35:46.573 God earlier in my life to where I felt like 0:35:46.573 --> 0:35:48.773 if I did a certain amount of things, I would 0:35:48.773 --> 0:35:52.013 get blessings in return, or if I do something to 0:35:52.053 --> 0:35:54.773 be good enough in God's presence. But your story and 0:35:54.813 --> 0:36:00.093 your narrative is shattering that because you're freeing somebody from 0:36:00.173 --> 0:36:02.453 that and allowed them to say, like, at my most 0:36:02.533 --> 0:36:06.853 broken form, at my most shameful, at my most depressed, 0:36:07.253 --> 0:36:09.613 that's where God wants to meet me the most. That's 0:36:09.613 --> 0:36:13.733 where he wants to love me the most. And that's 0:36:13.733 --> 0:36:16.253 so powerful because even with me, I feel like I've 0:36:16.813 --> 0:36:19.453 cultivated a relationship with God and I feel like we're 0:36:19.813 --> 0:36:24.333 in alignment. But it's almost like we just like do 0:36:24.493 --> 0:36:30.893 business together, and I'm like, I've done so much, I've 0:36:31.173 --> 0:36:33.813 caused a lot of pain, I've acted so much in 0:36:33.853 --> 0:36:36.813 a way before that It's like, I know God created me, 0:36:36.933 --> 0:36:39.053 and he placed these abilities and these gifts in me, 0:36:39.253 --> 0:36:42.013 and he knows he can do work through me, but 0:36:42.093 --> 0:36:45.413 he can't possibly like love me like through all that, 0:36:45.453 --> 0:36:48.093 and I'm still trying to find that out. And it's 0:36:48.133 --> 0:36:51.933 and it's like it's in hearing you say that is 0:36:52.053 --> 0:36:58.093 just it's it's it's shattering my own conception of God too, 0:36:58.093 --> 0:36:59.773 because I still see him in this bit of a 0:36:59.813 --> 0:37:01.293 punitive form, if that makes sense. 0:37:01.733 --> 0:37:04.053 That to completely makes sense because I think so much 0:37:04.053 --> 0:37:07.213 of the West world was raised with you know, this 0:37:07.453 --> 0:37:11.533 Christian Old Testament God, and there's a New Testament God 0:37:11.533 --> 0:37:13.653 that Jesus really came to flip on its head, like 0:37:13.693 --> 0:37:16.373 to be like no, like love your neighbor as yourself, 0:37:17.013 --> 0:37:19.493 you know, do good unto others, and to really kind 0:37:19.533 --> 0:37:22.013 of flip the old paradigm on its head at the time, 0:37:22.053 --> 0:37:24.693 But that was also two thousand years ago, you know. 0:37:24.733 --> 0:37:27.493 And something's change and something's never change. And the things 0:37:27.493 --> 0:37:30.173 that never change are the timeless principles of what it 0:37:30.253 --> 0:37:32.853 is to be a good human and to fow what 0:37:32.893 --> 0:37:35.613 it is to follow Christ, right, what it is to 0:37:36.213 --> 0:37:39.733 awaken like the Buddha. You know, different teachers from around 0:37:39.733 --> 0:37:42.093 the world. You know, they came and they you know, 0:37:42.213 --> 0:37:44.293 religions form around them, but they didn't come to start 0:37:44.293 --> 0:37:49.093 a religion. They came to help humanity. Remember that that's 0:37:49.133 --> 0:37:52.093 our path that we're walking. That these are our older 0:37:52.133 --> 0:37:55.653 brothers and sisters, and we have to follow their example. 0:37:55.853 --> 0:37:58.293 And they come with these teachings and these ways of 0:37:58.333 --> 0:38:03.573 being that leave a mark on the earth right in 0:38:03.693 --> 0:38:06.413 thousands of years ago, and we're still going to churches, 0:38:06.453 --> 0:38:08.413 We're going still going to the temples. We're still talking 0:38:08.413 --> 0:38:12.973 about these divine expressions. You know that the Son of God, 0:38:13.533 --> 0:38:17.453 daughters of God. And what I found interesting in my 0:38:17.533 --> 0:38:20.253 search through all the different world religions is there's generally 0:38:20.293 --> 0:38:23.893 this point of revelation, be it a prophet or an 0:38:23.893 --> 0:38:28.893 avatar like Christ or the Buddha or Krishna, and avatar 0:38:29.093 --> 0:38:33.253 being they came with a specific mission on earth to 0:38:33.413 --> 0:38:37.013 help humanity turn back towards God because things were becoming 0:38:37.613 --> 0:38:40.813 you know, dogmatic religion was going cold, right, it was 0:38:41.333 --> 0:38:45.053 no longer serving humanity to continue our evolution, and so 0:38:45.893 --> 0:38:51.213 really having the foundation to understand that even at our worst, 0:38:51.933 --> 0:38:56.973 God loves us beyond our capacity to understand. God loves 0:38:57.053 --> 0:39:04.853 us unconditionally, and that unconditional love doesn't mean like unconditional 0:39:04.933 --> 0:39:07.653 permission to do what the fuck we want, right, And 0:39:07.693 --> 0:39:12.493 that's why pain is a teacher. We experience pain, suffering, 0:39:12.533 --> 0:39:16.533 and disappointment to the degree that we need to be 0:39:16.613 --> 0:39:18.973 broken open. Our hearts need to be broken open, and 0:39:19.013 --> 0:39:21.933 we need to be humbled to understand that we're being 0:39:21.933 --> 0:39:26.333 called into a deeper alignment. We're being called to perhaps 0:39:26.333 --> 0:39:29.333 a higher station of life, and it might not necessarily 0:39:29.333 --> 0:39:31.093 look like what we think it's going to look like. 0:39:31.293 --> 0:39:31.453 Right. 0:39:31.493 --> 0:39:34.733 That's what I learned and I still continue to learn, 0:39:35.253 --> 0:39:37.253 because we have it all all mapped out at a 0:39:37.253 --> 0:39:39.053 certain point where like, Okay, this is what I do, 0:39:39.173 --> 0:39:41.493 and when I get this, it's all going to work out. 0:39:41.973 --> 0:39:46.373 And sometimes we need we need to be humbled, and 0:39:46.493 --> 0:39:48.813 we need to be broken down so that we can 0:39:48.853 --> 0:39:53.293 be born anew so that we can recalibrate to the 0:39:53.333 --> 0:39:56.133 path that our soul is really here to live. And 0:39:56.253 --> 0:39:59.693 I know that for me, there was a lot of resistance, 0:39:59.733 --> 0:40:02.333 and there's still this occasional resistance that I'm unconscious of, 0:40:03.173 --> 0:40:07.733 you know. But it's through that yearning and that longing 0:40:07.773 --> 0:40:10.773 to know God more and to love God more that 0:40:10.933 --> 0:40:14.573 keeps me deepening my alignment because I know that when 0:40:14.613 --> 0:40:19.733 pain comes, I need to listen. If it comes and 0:40:19.773 --> 0:40:21.893 I'm not able to hear the whisper and then it 0:40:21.933 --> 0:40:24.813 comes in the shouts and I'm ignoring the shouts, then 0:40:24.853 --> 0:40:27.493 it might come with a you know, a swift kick 0:40:27.573 --> 0:40:32.693 knocking me off my feet that makes me freeze and go, Okay, 0:40:32.813 --> 0:40:35.453 I need to take stock of the situation because clearly 0:40:36.333 --> 0:40:38.893 I'm not attuned right now to God. I'm not listening 0:40:38.933 --> 0:40:40.093 to what God wants of me. 0:40:40.693 --> 0:40:44.933 You mentioned something earlier about somatic past, and I know 0:40:45.013 --> 0:40:50.293 the importance of really getting clear on the emotional intelligence 0:40:50.373 --> 0:40:54.573 and the destruct or the emotional inheritance and the destructive 0:40:54.733 --> 0:40:57.573 behavior that it can cause. So to maybe somebody that 0:40:58.613 --> 0:41:02.133 isn't aware of somatic past or what that means, or 0:41:02.453 --> 0:41:07.893 emotional dysfunction, generational dysfunction. Can you just talk about that 0:41:07.973 --> 0:41:08.573 a little more. 0:41:08.773 --> 0:41:11.773 Yeah, you know, it's called different things. I call it, 0:41:11.853 --> 0:41:16.453 you know, generational cycle of trauma or generational curse because 0:41:16.893 --> 0:41:20.453 that's what it really is. You know, epigenetically, it's handed 0:41:20.493 --> 0:41:23.613 down to us lifetime after lifetime, through the generations, through 0:41:23.653 --> 0:41:27.373 our father and our mother and their parents and their 0:41:27.413 --> 0:41:31.573 parents and depending on what they went through. You know, 0:41:31.733 --> 0:41:35.493 that gets into the DNA, it gets into the literal 0:41:35.693 --> 0:41:39.333 their nervous systems and our nervous systems wire based on 0:41:39.333 --> 0:41:42.413 our environment, right, they sync up with our environment so 0:41:42.413 --> 0:41:44.533 that we can survive, so we can know this is 0:41:44.573 --> 0:41:47.093 what I can expect, and this is how I need 0:41:47.133 --> 0:41:49.773 to navigate reality because this is the quality of life. 0:41:49.853 --> 0:41:52.813 It is. So if during a war, you know, things 0:41:52.853 --> 0:41:55.933 are scarce, there's a famine, you know, people are on 0:41:56.133 --> 0:41:58.013 edge and it's not you know, then that's the nervous 0:41:58.053 --> 0:41:59.613 system that we're getting so that we can have the 0:41:59.653 --> 0:42:03.053 best chance of survival. You know, and that doesn't just 0:42:03.093 --> 0:42:06.373 eliminate after one generation, and it carries on. It carries on. 0:42:06.853 --> 0:42:09.173 You know, we I think we all of us came. 0:42:09.373 --> 0:42:11.373 We were already in our I think it was in 0:42:11.413 --> 0:42:13.933 our grandmother, right in our grandmother's womb. We're in our 0:42:14.813 --> 0:42:17.533 in her eggs. I think it goes back at least 0:42:17.653 --> 0:42:22.053 three generations, but even beyond that of just the norms 0:42:22.173 --> 0:42:26.053 of our family of origin and beliefs and expectations, and 0:42:26.093 --> 0:42:30.533 how that can carry on and potentially limit us and 0:42:30.573 --> 0:42:33.933 the expression that we want to have. And so you know, 0:42:33.973 --> 0:42:38.253 really trauma is any experience that was too much for 0:42:38.373 --> 0:42:41.613 us to integrate. It was overwhelming, and so we went 0:42:41.613 --> 0:42:44.773 into a state of fight flight or freeze. But think 0:42:44.813 --> 0:42:47.333 about being born into a family that's in state the 0:42:47.373 --> 0:42:50.013 state of fight flight or freeze. That's the nervous system 0:42:50.053 --> 0:42:52.533 we inherit. That's that was the nervous system I inherited. 0:42:53.133 --> 0:42:57.573 Like life is hard, things are scarce, people are mean, 0:42:58.053 --> 0:43:00.573 and yes, of course there's those those moments of light, 0:43:00.613 --> 0:43:03.013 of tenderness of love. It wasn't as that. There's a 0:43:03.053 --> 0:43:06.293 lot of others out there who have experienced way worse, 0:43:06.493 --> 0:43:11.173 but mine was at least intense enough where it felt 0:43:11.213 --> 0:43:14.053 like a burden from a very early age. And so 0:43:14.253 --> 0:43:18.413 children shouldn't be feeling a massive burden in life ideally, optimally, 0:43:19.093 --> 0:43:21.893 you know, for for for their optimal thriving, we should 0:43:21.933 --> 0:43:24.533 ideally live in a place of security, of calm, of peace. 0:43:25.333 --> 0:43:28.933 And we can look at a lot of other countries 0:43:28.973 --> 0:43:31.613 and they don't necessarily have a ton of wealth, but 0:43:32.333 --> 0:43:35.893 they can still have access to joy and togetherness and 0:43:35.973 --> 0:43:37.813 unity because a lot of them, you know, they might 0:43:37.813 --> 0:43:41.053 be connected to their culture. Right, there's these cultural blueprints 0:43:41.053 --> 0:43:44.413 that support us in our thriving. But in America, you know, 0:43:44.453 --> 0:43:46.413 there's a there's kind of a lot of different things 0:43:46.453 --> 0:43:49.533 going on, a lot of things that can be confusing. 0:43:49.653 --> 0:43:53.773 And so coming from a biracial household, my mother from 0:43:53.813 --> 0:43:56.453 the East, my father from the West, that was already 0:43:56.453 --> 0:44:01.373 a collision of worldviews, right, masculine and feminine, it's it's 0:44:01.453 --> 0:44:05.653 it's a coming together. And in my case, at least, 0:44:05.773 --> 0:44:08.813 there was a kind of a dysfunctional relationship between the 0:44:08.853 --> 0:44:12.813 masculine and feminine. You know, my father was very patriarchal, 0:44:12.893 --> 0:44:17.053 very dominant, controlled my mother in various ways. And my mother, 0:44:17.293 --> 0:44:19.973 you know, and she was also very emotional, So she 0:44:20.053 --> 0:44:23.653 did have the storm aspect, but being in this environment 0:44:23.733 --> 0:44:30.533 where it's like the accumulation of generations of stuff, of 0:44:30.653 --> 0:44:34.653 gunk of hardship and it's just like kind of being 0:44:34.653 --> 0:44:36.973 on a pressure cooker, you know, it felt like just 0:44:37.133 --> 0:44:40.653 walking on eggshells, like a false step could result in pain. 0:44:41.213 --> 0:44:43.253 And so it was already like they're in the ether, 0:44:43.773 --> 0:44:45.893 and it wasn't that hard for it to come through 0:44:45.933 --> 0:44:49.933 in a physical way. And so having to work through 0:44:49.973 --> 0:44:54.373 that kind of emotional burden or baggage was a big 0:44:54.413 --> 0:44:56.933 part of my work after having my awakening experience, because 0:44:56.933 --> 0:44:59.213 it didn't just go away. After my awakening with God 0:44:59.253 --> 0:45:03.013 and experiencing what unconditional love is, experiencing what true peace 0:45:03.053 --> 0:45:06.053 and calm is, I had the contrast to know, wow, 0:45:06.173 --> 0:45:09.173 I'm nowhere near that in my day to day I 0:45:09.173 --> 0:45:13.093 could be in nature and still like not fully at ease. 0:45:13.373 --> 0:45:16.173 And so it took me years of intensive meditation, of 0:45:16.253 --> 0:45:19.893 intensive prayer, of spending time in nature and disconnecting from 0:45:20.173 --> 0:45:22.653 the media, the TV, the partying and all those things 0:45:22.973 --> 0:45:25.813 to kind of detox. And then I came to a 0:45:25.893 --> 0:45:31.133 point of losing my younger sister to suicide, losing my 0:45:31.173 --> 0:45:35.813 sister Shanda to suicide, and that was it was devastating. 0:45:35.933 --> 0:45:41.493 That was a very devastating experience. And I believe that 0:45:41.893 --> 0:45:45.653 the only thing that kept me and helped me be 0:45:45.893 --> 0:45:48.373 the man that I was at the time was God, 0:45:48.773 --> 0:45:50.813 because now I had a place to turn to when 0:45:50.853 --> 0:45:54.333 it felt like it was too much, and I didn't 0:45:54.413 --> 0:45:57.933 question God's will. I didn't say this is wrong, and 0:45:57.933 --> 0:46:01.053 the shudn't have happened. I started from a place of acceptance, 0:46:01.133 --> 0:46:04.013 knowing that God is in control of all things and 0:46:04.053 --> 0:46:08.133 that nothing happens without divine sanction. And God even showed 0:46:08.133 --> 0:46:10.453 me a vision of it happening a year before it happened, 0:46:11.093 --> 0:46:14.733 and it was, you know, she jumped off a building 0:46:14.773 --> 0:46:17.293 in this vision that I had, and in the vision, 0:46:17.333 --> 0:46:23.373 I jumped off after her because and I teleported after 0:46:23.413 --> 0:46:26.533 I died, quote unquote died. But then now suddenly I 0:46:26.533 --> 0:46:28.933 got teleported to this like kind of no man's land, 0:46:29.013 --> 0:46:31.933 like this in between where now I was like, oh no, 0:46:32.933 --> 0:46:35.253 I don't have a body anymore and I'm just stuck here. 0:46:35.653 --> 0:46:38.813 And I was like this awful realization of like, oh no, 0:46:38.893 --> 0:46:44.093 I'm stuck here. And from that point the day that 0:46:44.133 --> 0:46:49.053 it happened. I was guided, and this is all in 0:46:49.093 --> 0:46:50.893 retrospect and the moment, I had no idea. I was 0:46:50.933 --> 0:46:53.333 just living in the moment. But I was sharing with 0:46:53.373 --> 0:46:55.453 my sister how much we loved her. I was saying 0:46:55.453 --> 0:46:57.613 all these things and letting her know that we're going 0:46:57.693 --> 0:46:59.493 to be here no matter what, We're not going to 0:46:59.533 --> 0:47:02.213 give up on her. And I'd just been fresh out 0:47:02.213 --> 0:47:04.893 of addiction. I had a year sober at that point, 0:47:05.333 --> 0:47:08.213 and I just was putting all my energy into trying 0:47:08.213 --> 0:47:10.093 to help her because I was like, if God helped me, 0:47:10.173 --> 0:47:12.133 God's going to help her. And I like that was 0:47:12.133 --> 0:47:15.053 like where I was kind of like not seeing the 0:47:15.093 --> 0:47:17.893 creator and the Creator's will and how things unfold clearly, 0:47:18.173 --> 0:47:20.293 because it was really like I need to save my sister. 0:47:20.493 --> 0:47:22.613 That's why God. Part of why God saved me so 0:47:22.653 --> 0:47:26.453 that I can save my sister. But in losing her 0:47:27.333 --> 0:47:33.333 in you know, having to say goodbye, and in really 0:47:33.373 --> 0:47:36.053 being pulled down into the underworld, because that's really what 0:47:36.093 --> 0:47:39.253 it plunged us into in my family, because my mother 0:47:39.493 --> 0:47:43.013 was so hell bent on saving her of like we 0:47:43.053 --> 0:47:46.493 need to save her, we need to save her. And 0:47:46.773 --> 0:47:50.453 I feel like almost in some ways that like need 0:47:51.893 --> 0:47:53.733 to like try to save her. Is why in some 0:47:53.773 --> 0:47:56.853 ways maybe God took her because it wasn't helping or 0:47:56.893 --> 0:47:58.653 serving any of us in our growth, because we were 0:47:58.733 --> 0:48:02.893 hyper focused on trying to save my sister and it 0:48:02.933 --> 0:48:07.973 wasn't meant to be, and that brought us into healing. 0:48:08.653 --> 0:48:12.533 That tragedy was a tragedy of losing my younger sister 0:48:14.293 --> 0:48:18.853 ultimately is what pushed me really, because they're so low, 0:48:18.893 --> 0:48:21.013 they lost their jobs. I was carrying the family on 0:48:21.053 --> 0:48:23.773 my shoulders and the finances and everything, and they were 0:48:23.853 --> 0:48:27.413 not functioning, and so I pulled us. I pulled us 0:48:27.453 --> 0:48:30.453 into the breavement support groups, you know, I pulled us 0:48:30.453 --> 0:48:34.093 into family therapy and found a space for them to 0:48:34.133 --> 0:48:37.333 cry and for us to you know, feel the compassion 0:48:37.333 --> 0:48:39.173 of someone else that was just fair kind of as 0:48:39.213 --> 0:48:43.733 a rock. And through that process I got into my 0:48:43.773 --> 0:48:47.933 own therapy and then I started that really started deepening 0:48:47.933 --> 0:48:51.613 my healing journey and acceleration of my self awareness. So 0:48:51.853 --> 0:48:55.333 it really came together with my spiritual beliefs and practices, 0:48:55.413 --> 0:48:59.133 but also really doing my work to clear out the somatic, 0:48:59.253 --> 0:49:02.333 my somatic body right to really do the work to 0:49:02.413 --> 0:49:06.333 break those generational cycles that were momentums that were like 0:49:06.373 --> 0:49:09.173 pushing me in a certain direction, and so really and 0:49:09.173 --> 0:49:11.213 like kind of putting a pause and beginning to do 0:49:11.253 --> 0:49:16.533 that work that's deeper self work. It inspired so much 0:49:17.533 --> 0:49:20.933 transformation not only within me, but within others because it 0:49:21.013 --> 0:49:24.693 really kind of said, oh, wow, this is so powerful 0:49:25.133 --> 0:49:28.453 to heal and to feel love from another person, to 0:49:28.453 --> 0:49:34.733 feel compassion from another person, to feel their humanity. It's 0:49:34.773 --> 0:49:37.813 a game changer. It's a game changer. It literally flipped 0:49:37.853 --> 0:49:42.213 everything and expanded my world even further. And that's really 0:49:42.213 --> 0:49:44.653 what gave me, like kind of the direct experience of 0:49:44.853 --> 0:49:49.213 God and others, of experiencing God within others as like 0:49:49.893 --> 0:49:53.933 the right words would come through and touch a deep places, 0:49:54.093 --> 0:49:58.093 as I felt someone just being there listening, support, being 0:49:58.133 --> 0:50:01.333 selfless and holding that space for me and me being 0:50:01.333 --> 0:50:06.093 able to receive that. It changed just the nervous system, right, 0:50:06.093 --> 0:50:11.813 because we begin internalizing these safe people, you know, these 0:50:11.853 --> 0:50:14.653 in these spaces where we feel safe, and it helps 0:50:14.693 --> 0:50:20.613 us coregulate. Suddenly our nervous system is being regulated and yeah, 0:50:20.693 --> 0:50:23.013 and finding safety in another I feel like it's it's 0:50:23.053 --> 0:50:26.413 pretty crucial to be able to feel that first and 0:50:26.453 --> 0:50:28.853 then we can find help other people find that safety 0:50:28.893 --> 0:50:31.493 once we can find it within ourselves. But how can 0:50:31.493 --> 0:50:33.533 we find it within ourselves if we don't have someone 0:50:33.573 --> 0:50:35.693 else that can model that for us or show us 0:50:35.733 --> 0:50:38.213 in a human in human form, what it is to 0:50:38.413 --> 0:50:42.413 be calm, to be loving. Wow. 0:50:43.213 --> 0:50:46.773 That word safety really, in the last year, it's been 0:50:46.813 --> 0:50:49.893 about a year, has run very very deep for me. 0:50:49.973 --> 0:50:52.973 And you guys are talking about your paths and spirituality 0:50:53.013 --> 0:50:57.453 and path to God. My so ten years into my sobriety, 0:50:57.493 --> 0:51:01.853 I ended up doing a ceremonial buffo code medicine journey. 0:51:02.573 --> 0:51:05.013 And my intention is doing the. 0:51:05.053 --> 0:51:08.893 Journey was to get closer to God and really develop 0:51:08.973 --> 0:51:12.493 that relationship because for ten years I was talking to 0:51:12.573 --> 0:51:15.253 talk and I mean I was praying and meditating, but 0:51:15.333 --> 0:51:17.733 it was lacking the depth and kind of some of 0:51:17.773 --> 0:51:21.253 that transactional stuff Darren was talking about. And as I 0:51:21.373 --> 0:51:24.133 entered into the medicine and left my body, I did 0:51:24.173 --> 0:51:27.253 not see God, but I felt the presence of God. 0:51:28.613 --> 0:51:30.973 And as I dropped in, it was. 0:51:30.933 --> 0:51:34.293 In a ceremony of about five people, and I started 0:51:34.293 --> 0:51:38.813 saying out loud, I'm safe, I'm safe, and I repeated 0:51:38.813 --> 0:51:40.973 it four or five times, and the shaman called me 0:51:41.053 --> 0:51:42.773 in to go first. It was five people that had 0:51:42.813 --> 0:51:45.213 never done it before, so they not only did they 0:51:45.213 --> 0:51:47.813 get to witness that and me verbalizing it. 0:51:48.213 --> 0:51:51.213 But I felt held. I felt safe. 0:51:51.293 --> 0:51:54.373 I felt and my intention was to get closer and 0:51:54.413 --> 0:51:57.973 I felt and not necessarily saw, but felt everything that 0:51:58.013 --> 0:52:00.413 I needed to. And I was like, oh my god, 0:52:00.733 --> 0:52:02.813 everything's going to be fine. Everything I've done my whole 0:52:02.853 --> 0:52:05.893 life was to feel safe. All about it, Karen, what 0:52:05.933 --> 0:52:09.093 other people think, and I'm like, I'm good. And as 0:52:09.133 --> 0:52:11.773 I came back and integrated, it just made me realize 0:52:11.773 --> 0:52:14.533 how many how everybody is going through this world just 0:52:14.573 --> 0:52:18.173 trying to feel safe, and us as men don't have 0:52:18.213 --> 0:52:19.933 to worry about going out to our car at ten 0:52:19.973 --> 0:52:22.453 o'clock at night and worried about feeling safe. So then 0:52:22.493 --> 0:52:26.533 it gave me a whole nother perspective around women and safety. 0:52:26.573 --> 0:52:28.613 And so it's just been a big thing for me 0:52:28.813 --> 0:52:32.773 about holding sacred space. And I know you're doing that, 0:52:32.813 --> 0:52:34.933 and I want to make sure we leave enough time 0:52:34.973 --> 0:52:38.453 to talk about the unbelievable work you're doing, the men's 0:52:38.493 --> 0:52:40.053 work with sacred sons. 0:52:40.453 --> 0:52:43.933 Yeah, yeah, thank you so much for presencing the importance 0:52:43.973 --> 0:52:48.333 of safety and our responsibility as men to create those 0:52:48.573 --> 0:52:52.493 sacred spaces for transformation to happen, and so really have 0:52:52.533 --> 0:52:55.253 been immersed in men's work for the past seven years, 0:52:55.253 --> 0:52:59.373 I would say. And it happened kind of by happenstance, 0:52:59.373 --> 0:53:04.653 of course, as it would, where I was invited to 0:53:04.693 --> 0:53:08.693 facilitate a men's prayer circle. There was a call putting 0:53:08.693 --> 0:53:11.293 out at the time of Standing Rock, where the Standing 0:53:11.333 --> 0:53:14.933 Rock sue, we're facing off with the Dakota Access Pipeline. 0:53:14.933 --> 0:53:17.653 They were wanting to build a pipeline, oil pipeline through 0:53:17.693 --> 0:53:22.973 the reservation, and the indigenous peoples you know, from all 0:53:23.013 --> 0:53:25.573 over the world gathered at Standing Rock to say no, 0:53:26.333 --> 0:53:30.333 to say enough is enough, and there was a standoff 0:53:30.453 --> 0:53:35.333 between the police and between the indigenous people's and who 0:53:35.373 --> 0:53:37.293 are all gathering. And so there was a call put 0:53:37.333 --> 0:53:40.773 out by the elders at Standing Rock that men's and 0:53:40.813 --> 0:53:43.413 women's prayer circles be created and that we pray for 0:53:43.453 --> 0:53:47.053 the water protectors, we pray for the ones who are 0:53:47.053 --> 0:53:51.533 standing up. And I was invited to co facilitate the 0:53:51.573 --> 0:53:57.733 ceremony from a brother mine at the time, and he 0:53:57.733 --> 0:54:00.493 he blessed me in that sense of really giving me 0:54:00.573 --> 0:54:03.973 a space where I could bring in some of these 0:54:04.293 --> 0:54:09.973 you know, Western psychological perspectives and techniques and ways of 0:54:10.213 --> 0:54:14.853 facilitating that I had learned through my undergraduate experience in 0:54:14.893 --> 0:54:19.413 facilitating you know, these pretty much growth therapy groups. And 0:54:19.453 --> 0:54:21.093 I was on my way to become a therapist, but 0:54:21.173 --> 0:54:24.493 being able to weave in what I had learned through studying, 0:54:24.613 --> 0:54:27.133 you know, these different tools and techniques of helping people 0:54:27.493 --> 0:54:30.333 heal that were not you know, I was not of 0:54:30.333 --> 0:54:33.533 the psychiatric perspective after my sister and seeing what happened 0:54:33.533 --> 0:54:36.693 with my sister, but you know, really seeing that we 0:54:36.733 --> 0:54:39.453 are the medicine and that we can really hold a 0:54:39.533 --> 0:54:44.533 space and lead others into safety. We can lead others 0:54:44.573 --> 0:54:47.333 and create the context that they can feel safe enough 0:54:48.293 --> 0:54:51.053 to express the parts of themselves that they didn't get 0:54:51.093 --> 0:54:53.693 to express, perhaps in their childhood or along the way 0:54:53.733 --> 0:54:58.413 to their adulthood. And it's many of these I think 0:54:58.493 --> 0:55:01.613 failures of the environment. I don't it's no one's to 0:55:01.693 --> 0:55:03.893 blame at the end of the day, no one's to blame. 0:55:04.693 --> 0:55:08.213 But there is a responsibility that we have as men 0:55:08.573 --> 0:55:13.333 to shift culture, to shift our environments by being that 0:55:13.493 --> 0:55:16.653 safe and grounded space. But how can we be that 0:55:16.693 --> 0:55:19.133 safe and grounded space when it wasn't modeled for us, 0:55:19.213 --> 0:55:22.693 or if we've never experienced one, and so unless we 0:55:22.813 --> 0:55:25.293 experienced it along the way through our family of origin 0:55:25.493 --> 0:55:27.533 or through a mentor, or through an uncle or an 0:55:27.533 --> 0:55:30.773 aunt or someone that could give us that blueprint of 0:55:30.813 --> 0:55:34.613 what it is to feel safe in another's presence, to 0:55:34.653 --> 0:55:39.213 feel protected, then we kind of go off piecing together, 0:55:39.813 --> 0:55:42.413 piecing life together in a way of like what we 0:55:42.453 --> 0:55:46.333 think we should do, what we want to do, but 0:55:46.493 --> 0:55:51.333 also the somatic embodiment of what we are energetically, like 0:55:51.453 --> 0:55:55.293 what is our ancestral inheritance, what kind of traumas are 0:55:55.333 --> 0:55:57.573 we carrying from this lifetime from birth to where we 0:55:57.613 --> 0:56:04.133 stand today, and are we effectively integrating all of that 0:56:04.253 --> 0:56:09.893 energy in such a way that we can radiate the peace, 0:56:10.373 --> 0:56:14.173 the calm, the safety, the inspiration to love, the compassion 0:56:14.653 --> 0:56:21.413 that really humanity, that's our birthright. Like what God teaches 0:56:21.533 --> 0:56:24.453 us is that we are created in God's image, and 0:56:24.493 --> 0:56:27.533 this is said in many different ways around the world. 0:56:28.093 --> 0:56:29.733 You know, it's not only from the Christian faith, it's 0:56:29.773 --> 0:56:32.693 from all faiths. So we are creating God's image. And 0:56:32.733 --> 0:56:36.733 so what that means is we have the capacity to 0:56:36.853 --> 0:56:40.013 develop these qualities in us. And that's why for me, 0:56:40.053 --> 0:56:43.253 there's no automatic salvation. It's our responsibility as men and 0:56:43.293 --> 0:56:48.213 as women and as humans to cultivate our higher faculties, 0:56:48.253 --> 0:56:52.973 to refine our consciousness so that we can support the evolutions, 0:56:53.093 --> 0:56:56.573 you know, whether that's our own children, whether that's in 0:56:56.653 --> 0:56:59.573 our purpose work, whether that's out on the field, you know, 0:56:59.613 --> 0:57:04.533 wherever that is, to be able to bring that cultivation 0:57:04.973 --> 0:57:08.773 into the environment. That's what brings balance. And that's really 0:57:08.933 --> 0:57:12.133 our responsibility as anchors right as men, where we can 0:57:12.213 --> 0:57:17.333 anchor a certain energetic to an environment, and that could 0:57:17.333 --> 0:57:20.013 be a positive or a negative. Right we can bring 0:57:20.413 --> 0:57:22.653 we can bring anger, we can bring anks, we can 0:57:22.693 --> 0:57:24.613 bring fear, we can bring terror, We can bring a 0:57:24.653 --> 0:57:26.133 lot of things as men, and we just want to 0:57:26.133 --> 0:57:31.133 look at examples from throughout time, war right, genocide. We 0:57:31.173 --> 0:57:34.973 are capable of the darkest of things, and we're also 0:57:35.093 --> 0:57:38.693 capable of the most beautiful of things, and so it 0:57:38.733 --> 0:57:44.933 really is our prerogative. I believe to find orientation around 0:57:44.933 --> 0:57:47.093 the core of life, which is the creator, which is God, 0:57:47.133 --> 0:57:50.293 which is the source of all existence. And our closest 0:57:50.693 --> 0:57:54.693 example is simply nature, because nature is creation, it's God's 0:57:54.693 --> 0:57:59.333 creation and it's it's just a continual giving. It's radiating 0:57:59.373 --> 0:58:02.213 its peace, and if we spend enough time in nature, 0:58:03.373 --> 0:58:05.133 it's it's one of the greatest Tea says. I'm sure 0:58:05.133 --> 0:58:09.293 you both can attest to and anybody who's given it. 0:58:09.293 --> 0:58:11.733 It's due time we can connect to the Creator more 0:58:11.773 --> 0:58:16.053 readily through nature or through you know, are a baby, right, 0:58:16.093 --> 0:58:19.213 Babies are great examples because they're straight, they're straight from source, 0:58:20.013 --> 0:58:22.853 and when they're when they're well fed and well slept 0:58:23.253 --> 0:58:25.813 and we're holding them. You know, I have a newborn, 0:58:25.893 --> 0:58:28.973 my son, Zion, my number three. When I'm holding him 0:58:30.093 --> 0:58:32.853 and he's just smiling at me, I'm just looking in 0:58:32.933 --> 0:58:35.453 his eyes and it feels like I'm just being submerged 0:58:35.493 --> 0:58:38.613 into the depths of love and I'm just here. There's 0:58:38.653 --> 0:58:42.733 nothing else, just him and I and it's this sacred 0:58:42.813 --> 0:58:46.453 experience that it's like this is God. You are God, 0:58:46.733 --> 0:58:50.453 and I'm experiencing God through you, my son, and I'm 0:58:50.453 --> 0:58:55.093 just feeling that interconnectedness that like I'm my father's son, 0:58:55.133 --> 0:58:57.053 but I'm also the great Father's son, as we all 0:58:57.093 --> 0:58:59.733 are as men. And so that's what really inspired the 0:58:59.813 --> 0:59:02.973 creation of sacred sons was my first son, Cairo. You know, 0:59:03.053 --> 0:59:04.933 two days after he was born, I was leading a 0:59:04.933 --> 0:59:08.573 group of sixty four men in exercises that I was 0:59:08.613 --> 0:59:11.093 creating on the fly because I had that intention and 0:59:11.173 --> 0:59:14.493 desire and I'd never facilitated that large of a group, 0:59:14.653 --> 0:59:16.373 but it was just coming through I'm going to do this, 0:59:16.453 --> 0:59:19.253 I'm going to lead them in this way, and by 0:59:19.333 --> 0:59:22.333 through the process I saw them and their walls were 0:59:22.333 --> 0:59:25.053 coming down. They were crying, they're seeing each other, they 0:59:25.053 --> 0:59:28.413 are bracing, they're feeling love, they're feeling safety, and they're 0:59:28.413 --> 0:59:31.933 feeling permission to bring all of them out rather than 0:59:32.053 --> 0:59:34.093 like how much as men we feel like we need 0:59:34.133 --> 0:59:37.373 to censor ourselves or show up in a certain way. 0:59:38.053 --> 0:59:41.013 But if that's not a true natural being and it's 0:59:41.013 --> 0:59:45.173 bravado or it's this like provisional personality, these adaptations we've 0:59:45.253 --> 0:59:49.053 learned to use to survive, to get clout, whatever it is, 0:59:49.773 --> 0:59:53.653 then that energetic is going to lead to suffering for 0:59:53.733 --> 0:59:56.653 ourselves or for another because it's not in true alignment 0:59:56.653 --> 0:59:58.773 with the Creator. And so I feel like, as men, 0:59:58.893 --> 1:00:01.693 our first step is coming back to our hearts where 1:00:01.693 --> 1:00:03.893 the Creator dwells, coming back to our hearts, coming back 1:00:03.893 --> 1:00:06.853 to nature, coming back to love within ourselves. But the 1:00:06.853 --> 1:00:08.973 only way to do that is to reckon with the darkness, 1:00:09.453 --> 1:00:11.533 to face the shadows, to face the ways we've been 1:00:11.573 --> 1:00:15.773 out of alignment, the ways we've lied, stolen, herded, cheat like, 1:00:15.853 --> 1:00:17.693 all the ways that we've been out of integrity and 1:00:17.733 --> 1:00:22.613 caused harm to life. To really do that fearless self inventory. 1:00:22.853 --> 1:00:24.813 You know, they do this in AA and a lot 1:00:24.853 --> 1:00:28.293 of twelve step programs. I had never gotten into AA, 1:00:28.333 --> 1:00:30.853 but it was a part of my spiritual path of 1:00:31.493 --> 1:00:35.173 There's a toll Tech tradition called recapitulation where you go 1:00:35.333 --> 1:00:39.693 through your whole life and find all the times where 1:00:39.733 --> 1:00:41.813 you had been out of integrity, and then you recreate 1:00:41.853 --> 1:00:45.173 the situation as you would now, and you go through 1:00:45.213 --> 1:00:49.133 your whole life doing that, and they say it cleanses 1:00:49.133 --> 1:00:53.133 your luminosity. So you're cleansing your energy, You're cleansing your 1:00:53.173 --> 1:00:57.093 soul of all the misdeeds and replacing those misdeeds with 1:00:57.093 --> 1:01:00.853 the right deeds. So now you're clear about how to 1:01:00.893 --> 1:01:03.573 be in alignment. And so that's the first step as 1:01:03.613 --> 1:01:05.773 men and as I think humans in general, is coming 1:01:05.813 --> 1:01:09.933 into alignment with our source. Right that that's our true north. 1:01:10.693 --> 1:01:14.053 And if we have a true north that's not rooted 1:01:14.213 --> 1:01:16.813 in the creator, that's actually born of this world and 1:01:16.853 --> 1:01:20.413 born of the you know, the creations of man, then 1:01:20.413 --> 1:01:22.733 we're going to be off the mark. And that's what like, 1:01:22.773 --> 1:01:25.373 that's sinning, right, to miss the mark, that's what it 1:01:25.413 --> 1:01:28.013 really means to sin, like the etymology of the word right, 1:01:28.093 --> 1:01:31.413 that's what it what it meant originally to miss the mark. 1:01:31.733 --> 1:01:34.733 And so if we want to be on mark, on 1:01:34.813 --> 1:01:38.173 our target, and and for me, the target is to 1:01:38.253 --> 1:01:43.053 embody as much love, as much peace, as much wisdom, 1:01:43.773 --> 1:01:45.653 and to share it with as many as I can, 1:01:46.853 --> 1:01:51.573 and to really kind of be that alchemy of spirit 1:01:51.613 --> 1:01:53.733 and matter, because I know I'm this soul, I'm this 1:01:53.933 --> 1:01:57.173 energy that it resides in this body right now. And 1:01:57.253 --> 1:02:00.973 I know, based on my sisters, how abruptly my sister's 1:02:01.013 --> 1:02:04.453 life was taken away, that my life could end just 1:02:04.573 --> 1:02:08.293 this suddenly, that I don't have a guarantee on tomorrow, 1:02:08.813 --> 1:02:10.813 and so I do my best to live each day 1:02:11.493 --> 1:02:13.293 as if it was it would be a good day 1:02:13.333 --> 1:02:15.293 to die. And of course I want to live a 1:02:15.373 --> 1:02:18.133 very long life. But the indigenous Native Americans that would 1:02:18.133 --> 1:02:20.133 have a saying they say, today's a good day to die, 1:02:20.213 --> 1:02:22.493 especially when they went off to war, you know, gave 1:02:22.533 --> 1:02:27.053 them that courage to move forward without thought of their 1:02:27.053 --> 1:02:28.973 own life so that they could be effective in war. 1:02:30.173 --> 1:02:35.573 And there's that understanding that in some ways I don't 1:02:35.573 --> 1:02:37.773 want to use that analogy of war for our life. 1:02:38.333 --> 1:02:44.893 But there are outer principalities which are not for God. 1:02:46.093 --> 1:02:48.653 And while the core of it, all there is is God, 1:02:48.733 --> 1:02:50.893 all there is is the Creator, because anything that's outside 1:02:50.893 --> 1:02:53.053 of the Creator isn't even real. But while we're in 1:02:53.093 --> 1:02:55.653 these bodies, while we're in this three D world, and 1:02:55.693 --> 1:02:58.453 it feels very real. I want to show up in 1:02:58.453 --> 1:03:02.093 a way that demonstrates to my three children, my sons, 1:03:02.533 --> 1:03:05.813 what it is to be a man and up with responsibility, 1:03:06.013 --> 1:03:07.973 to show up with love, to show up with courage, 1:03:08.373 --> 1:03:13.013 and to stand for freedom right, our human freedom. And 1:03:13.053 --> 1:03:18.893 that's really a foundation of God. Is freedom, is feeling free, 1:03:19.653 --> 1:03:23.213 is feeling free. And I experience that more and more 1:03:23.453 --> 1:03:28.653 as I'm as I'm expanding, and I want I want 1:03:28.653 --> 1:03:31.733 that for my sons, I want that for humanity because 1:03:31.733 --> 1:03:34.013 I think so many of us, myself included in the past, 1:03:34.653 --> 1:03:36.573 felt like I grew up in a prison. I felt 1:03:36.573 --> 1:03:38.573 like I grew up like with so much baggage and 1:03:38.613 --> 1:03:41.293 weight on my shoulders, and so to be able to 1:03:41.293 --> 1:03:45.053 help men lighten their load a little bit, because once 1:03:45.093 --> 1:03:46.613 we lighten our load and we work through some of 1:03:46.653 --> 1:03:49.773 that trauma, it opens up a space within our somatic 1:03:49.813 --> 1:03:52.973 body to now start perceiving and experiencing life in a 1:03:53.013 --> 1:03:57.293 whole new way. We're finding more joy, more levity. Right, 1:03:57.373 --> 1:04:01.693 there's so much joy simply in existence, and it can 1:04:01.733 --> 1:04:04.933 be very very serious and bleak and like, I don't 1:04:04.973 --> 1:04:06.973 know how much longer I want to be here kind 1:04:06.973 --> 1:04:11.373 of energy unless we make space in our somatic bodies 1:04:11.373 --> 1:04:14.093 that we can really play, so play doesn't feel like 1:04:14.133 --> 1:04:16.453 it's has to be for so we can actually genuinely 1:04:16.533 --> 1:04:19.613 play like little children and feel that freedom and wonder 1:04:19.653 --> 1:04:21.573 and joy just to simply be in these bodies on 1:04:21.613 --> 1:04:23.293 this beautiful earth. I could go on. 1:04:23.413 --> 1:04:30.413 So, man, you're really painting a beautiful picture. The ultimate 1:04:30.493 --> 1:04:33.373 comeback story. I feel like, I would say, from a 1:04:33.453 --> 1:04:38.613 hopeless life, oblique life, to the most broken parts of 1:04:38.653 --> 1:04:41.773 your story, where that love and compassionate as deep as 1:04:41.813 --> 1:04:45.293 form came to meet you there and then propel you 1:04:45.373 --> 1:04:48.173 from there to be love and something that I feel 1:04:48.173 --> 1:04:50.893 like has inspired somebody today, that somebody can take away 1:04:51.813 --> 1:04:55.973 from the fact that from their pain, from their suffering, 1:04:56.053 --> 1:04:58.653 that there is something great that can form from that 1:04:59.133 --> 1:05:02.013 when they feel like nothing is possible. So yeah, we 1:05:02.093 --> 1:05:04.613 appreciate you. I appreciate you for coming on here and 1:05:05.413 --> 1:05:07.493 sharing just the depths of your story. Man. 1:05:07.853 --> 1:05:10.973 Thank you for the space, Thank you for the time. Brothers. Yeah, Wellbera, 1:05:11.093 --> 1:05:13.493 this was so powerful man, I knew this would go deep. 1:05:13.573 --> 1:05:17.253 And for anybody listening, even if you were maybe a 1:05:17.333 --> 1:05:20.853 female listening, and you want to pass this along this 1:05:21.013 --> 1:05:23.493 episode to as many men as possible, it would help. 1:05:23.533 --> 1:05:25.973 But I think it also helps the female to understand 1:05:26.973 --> 1:05:30.333 also the importance of this work, whatever your race or 1:05:30.373 --> 1:05:33.853 your gender is so the way that you articulate things 1:05:33.893 --> 1:05:37.733 and just to attach the proper meaning to all of 1:05:37.773 --> 1:05:40.013 the struggle and the pain and the loss of your sister, 1:05:41.533 --> 1:05:43.733 the east and the west of mom and dad and 1:05:43.773 --> 1:05:46.253 how it's collided. It's like all brought you to this 1:05:46.373 --> 1:05:49.733 space of great wisdom and you're doing great things, man, 1:05:49.813 --> 1:05:53.133 So thank you so much for showing up and sharing 1:05:53.133 --> 1:05:54.293 your heart and telling your story. 1:05:54.453 --> 1:05:57.053 Yeah, yeah, thank you so much. Brothers. It's time, you know, 1:05:57.213 --> 1:06:00.253 that we can bring masculine and feminine together and the 1:06:00.253 --> 1:06:02.533 perfect and young, you know. And that's really the evolution 1:06:02.653 --> 1:06:06.093 of my work beyond Sacred Sons, is unifying the masculine 1:06:06.093 --> 1:06:09.253 and the feminine and creating the spaces for us men 1:06:09.413 --> 1:06:11.573 who have been in the path and for the women 1:06:11.613 --> 1:06:13.413 who are ready to be met, to come together in 1:06:13.453 --> 1:06:16.613 the sacred reunion as I call it, because it's a prayer, 1:06:16.693 --> 1:06:19.013 it's a prayer or collective. You know, from all the 1:06:19.053 --> 1:06:22.013 pain that we see out there, that we need spaces 1:06:22.053 --> 1:06:24.813 where we can come together and unify men and women 1:06:24.973 --> 1:06:28.533 from all backgrounds. It's time to unify. Where can our 1:06:28.573 --> 1:06:31.373 listeners track you down? Yeah, they can check out my 1:06:31.973 --> 1:06:36.973 Instagram which is Albert Bastia and Albert Bostia dot com 1:06:37.013 --> 1:06:38.533 as well. I'm sure you guys can put in the 1:06:38.533 --> 1:06:44.173 show notes that we got these on these modern devices. 1:06:46.053 --> 1:06:48.453 Yeah, we'll get we'll get you dialed in and again, 1:06:48.493 --> 1:06:51.933 if you're listening, thank you for listening. Be sure to 1:06:51.973 --> 1:06:55.693 stay connected with us always. It helps if you're leaving 1:06:55.733 --> 1:06:58.773 those five star reviews or leaving a comment or a 1:06:58.813 --> 1:07:04.093 review in your Apple or Spotify or wherever you're listening. 1:07:04.093 --> 1:07:06.093 It helps tome because our mission is always to reach 1:07:06.133 --> 1:07:09.693 as many people as possible, and your feedback and reviews help, 1:07:09.813 --> 1:07:14.653 so definitely track down over and we appreciate you being here. 1:07:14.693 --> 1:07:18.053 You can also find us on the Inflection Network on YouTube. 1:07:18.173 --> 1:07:18.773 Yeah Thanks. 1:07:20.733 --> 1:07:24.653 Comeback Stories is a production of Inflection Network and iHeartRadio. 1:07:24.973 --> 1:07:29.493 For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, 1:07:29.733 --> 1:07:31.333 or wherever you get your podcasts.