1 00:00:03,200 --> 00:00:06,160 Speaker 1: Welcome to stuff mom never told you from how stup 2 00:00:06,240 --> 00:00:14,840 Speaker 1: works not cold. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm 3 00:00:14,920 --> 00:00:17,520 Speaker 1: Kristen and I'm Caroline, and today we're going to talk 4 00:00:17,520 --> 00:00:22,560 Speaker 1: about anxiety. Deep breath, yes, deep breath maybe plus your 5 00:00:22,560 --> 00:00:25,479 Speaker 1: eyes if you need to focus on yourself, focus on 6 00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:28,960 Speaker 1: a positive mantra. Yeah, maybe lie down you need to. 7 00:00:29,400 --> 00:00:32,760 Speaker 1: We won't judge you by the soft pillow and rest 8 00:00:32,840 --> 00:00:35,480 Speaker 1: your head against it or squeeze it for dear life. Yeah, 9 00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:39,280 Speaker 1: like Elmira and that's just squeeze because you love it 10 00:00:39,320 --> 00:00:44,400 Speaker 1: so much. Yeah, anxiety is a topic near and dear 11 00:00:44,920 --> 00:00:48,120 Speaker 1: to my brain. I shouldn't say dear to my brain. 12 00:00:48,240 --> 00:00:51,680 Speaker 1: My brain hates it and it's constantly afflicted by it. 13 00:00:52,440 --> 00:00:54,240 Speaker 1: I feel like Carolina should go ahead and have a 14 00:00:54,360 --> 00:00:59,040 Speaker 1: moment of transparency and let people know I have generalized 15 00:00:59,040 --> 00:01:03,639 Speaker 1: anxiety to So when were you diagnosed with that? Probably 16 00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:09,119 Speaker 1: last year when I really got into therapy for real, zayes, 17 00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:14,080 Speaker 1: because just to play poker with your therapy, yeah, instead 18 00:01:14,080 --> 00:01:16,520 Speaker 1: of just doing it just for the cachet of saying 19 00:01:16,520 --> 00:01:20,920 Speaker 1: I have a therapist look at me. Um. Yeah. I 20 00:01:20,920 --> 00:01:24,160 Speaker 1: mean like things kind of hit a point, especially with 21 00:01:24,240 --> 00:01:28,560 Speaker 1: I think turning thirty, getting engaged to be married, all 22 00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:33,040 Speaker 1: of these like big life things happening that made me 23 00:01:33,160 --> 00:01:36,480 Speaker 1: take a bit of a step back, and I want 24 00:01:36,520 --> 00:01:41,560 Speaker 1: to dig into patterns you know, that I didn't want 25 00:01:41,560 --> 00:01:44,520 Speaker 1: to carry with me into the rest of my thirties. 26 00:01:44,560 --> 00:01:48,200 Speaker 1: And marriage sounds smart. Yeah, I mean, had you struggled 27 00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:54,520 Speaker 1: with anxiety your whole life? Oh? Yeah, definitely all my life? Um, 28 00:01:54,640 --> 00:01:58,160 Speaker 1: And the more I learned about it, the more astounding 29 00:01:58,280 --> 00:02:04,400 Speaker 1: it is how all those patterns really took root at 30 00:02:04,440 --> 00:02:07,960 Speaker 1: such young ages, you know, just like coping mechanisms that 31 00:02:08,040 --> 00:02:12,760 Speaker 1: you develop. And how even though I, you know, feel 32 00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:15,240 Speaker 1: like I am very different than the person that I 33 00:02:15,360 --> 00:02:17,720 Speaker 1: was obviously when I was like ten or twelve or 34 00:02:17,760 --> 00:02:22,400 Speaker 1: a teenager, even in my early twenties, still those same 35 00:02:22,840 --> 00:02:27,800 Speaker 1: patterns of just dealing with day to day life. Um, 36 00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:31,480 Speaker 1: they hang around. Yeah. Now, I definitely struggle with anxiety. 37 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:34,560 Speaker 1: I haven't received any sort of diagnosis. I'm also in therapy, 38 00:02:34,680 --> 00:02:37,600 Speaker 1: but I do just say it for the cashet. It's true. 39 00:02:37,720 --> 00:02:41,640 Speaker 1: It's like my therapist, this my therapist that she doesn't exist. 40 00:02:42,040 --> 00:02:43,919 Speaker 1: I really just go sit at a McDonald's for an 41 00:02:43,919 --> 00:02:46,840 Speaker 1: hour a day. Well, now it's breakfast all day, so 42 00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:52,200 Speaker 1: I never got egg mcmuffins. But you know, um, you know, 43 00:02:52,240 --> 00:02:55,600 Speaker 1: in our couple Speak episode, we we touched on the 44 00:02:55,680 --> 00:03:00,360 Speaker 1: idea of peaks and valleys in a relationship. And when 45 00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:02,920 Speaker 1: my boyfriend and I were working on some issues in 46 00:03:02,919 --> 00:03:08,680 Speaker 1: our relationship together, UM, I started having uh, like low 47 00:03:08,720 --> 00:03:12,720 Speaker 1: grade I wouldn't say that they were totally debilitating, but 48 00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:15,160 Speaker 1: like low grade panic attacks, if you want to call 49 00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:19,920 Speaker 1: them that. And I've noticed that ever since then. Even 50 00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:22,560 Speaker 1: basic stuff that stresses you out, like somebody cuts you 51 00:03:22,600 --> 00:03:25,720 Speaker 1: off in traffic, or like you're trying to prepare to 52 00:03:25,760 --> 00:03:31,720 Speaker 1: record two podcasts or something. Really basic things now lead 53 00:03:31,760 --> 00:03:35,000 Speaker 1: to like an elevated anxiety level. And I don't just 54 00:03:35,080 --> 00:03:37,160 Speaker 1: mean like you're stressed out, maybe you're sweating a little 55 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:39,840 Speaker 1: the full on, like I can't get a deep breath, 56 00:03:40,200 --> 00:03:43,200 Speaker 1: I feel like my chest is caving in. There's so 57 00:03:43,320 --> 00:03:46,760 Speaker 1: much pressure on my head. Like all of these sort 58 00:03:46,760 --> 00:03:51,560 Speaker 1: of hallmark anxiety symptoms are more likely to crop up. 59 00:03:51,880 --> 00:03:55,920 Speaker 1: And I have a feeling it's so common for it 60 00:03:56,080 --> 00:04:00,480 Speaker 1: to take something like a panic attack logo araide, high 61 00:04:00,520 --> 00:04:03,440 Speaker 1: grade whatever, because that was a similar experience that I had. 62 00:04:03,640 --> 00:04:05,720 Speaker 1: UM something like that happened to me that really got 63 00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:08,760 Speaker 1: my attention, Like there were so many red flags my 64 00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:14,440 Speaker 1: brain was just finally waving that get us to take 65 00:04:14,440 --> 00:04:18,200 Speaker 1: care of these things that we've just been managing in 66 00:04:18,240 --> 00:04:21,920 Speaker 1: our in our own you know, very odd kinds of ways, 67 00:04:22,279 --> 00:04:24,640 Speaker 1: not that it's not okay to be flawed, but I 68 00:04:24,640 --> 00:04:27,880 Speaker 1: should say maybe dysfunctional kinds of ways. Yeah, And I mean, 69 00:04:27,920 --> 00:04:31,120 Speaker 1: I think what keeps a lot of people not being 70 00:04:31,120 --> 00:04:35,000 Speaker 1: a psychologist, but I think in doing reading about this topic, 71 00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:38,919 Speaker 1: what stops a lot of people from getting help for 72 00:04:39,040 --> 00:04:41,000 Speaker 1: anxiety is that for a lot of people, it's just 73 00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:44,479 Speaker 1: a baseline state, like I'm just anxious and neurotic, and 74 00:04:44,520 --> 00:04:46,480 Speaker 1: I can play it off as funny and like I'm 75 00:04:46,480 --> 00:04:50,000 Speaker 1: a Woody Allen character or something, but it really really 76 00:04:50,120 --> 00:04:54,280 Speaker 1: can be debilitating. I mean, if you're having a panic attack, 77 00:04:54,400 --> 00:04:56,960 Speaker 1: like every time you burn dinner or something, you know, 78 00:04:57,040 --> 00:05:00,760 Speaker 1: like that's not exactly healthy. And so those are some 79 00:05:00,839 --> 00:05:03,920 Speaker 1: good red flags, like you said, to actually talk to somebody, 80 00:05:03,960 --> 00:05:06,279 Speaker 1: get help. Maybe you don't need medicine, Maybe you need therapy, 81 00:05:06,320 --> 00:05:09,159 Speaker 1: Maybe you do need medicine. There's a whole range of 82 00:05:09,200 --> 00:05:12,240 Speaker 1: things that um that you can do to help improve 83 00:05:12,279 --> 00:05:15,159 Speaker 1: your life once you realize, like I am super struggling 84 00:05:15,160 --> 00:05:18,160 Speaker 1: with anxiety. Yeah, And I also feel like it's something 85 00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:22,039 Speaker 1: that we are talking about more and more, not just 86 00:05:22,160 --> 00:05:25,240 Speaker 1: you and me, but we do talk about our respective 87 00:05:25,279 --> 00:05:28,360 Speaker 1: anxieties together, which I think is really helpful. But even 88 00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:32,920 Speaker 1: just among other girlfriends of mine or just the female 89 00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:37,560 Speaker 1: conversations that are happening online, I feel like I just 90 00:05:37,680 --> 00:05:40,719 Speaker 1: see it more and more of women acknowledging that this 91 00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:42,320 Speaker 1: is something that they deal with, whether it is a 92 00:05:42,320 --> 00:05:44,960 Speaker 1: more clinical kind of thing or whether it is just 93 00:05:45,120 --> 00:05:49,640 Speaker 1: the general anxiousness, nervousness, however you want to describe it. 94 00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:53,720 Speaker 1: And I think it's it's really interesting that this is happening. 95 00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:56,960 Speaker 1: And some people think that there is almost a millennial 96 00:05:57,520 --> 00:06:02,400 Speaker 1: anxiety epidemic of foot, which is usually blamed on technology, 97 00:06:02,560 --> 00:06:07,800 Speaker 1: social media, um work life being completely imbalanced because they 98 00:06:07,839 --> 00:06:09,679 Speaker 1: are now blended and they are one and the same 99 00:06:10,480 --> 00:06:12,799 Speaker 1: and so forth. Yeah, we see a lot of those 100 00:06:12,920 --> 00:06:17,200 Speaker 1: environmental reasons bandied about when we talk about why people 101 00:06:17,240 --> 00:06:19,800 Speaker 1: seem to be struggling more with anxiety, and then you 102 00:06:19,839 --> 00:06:23,920 Speaker 1: see them magnified when people talk about women, and they 103 00:06:23,960 --> 00:06:27,280 Speaker 1: all always cite the wage gap having to look beautiful 104 00:06:27,320 --> 00:06:29,400 Speaker 1: and young all the time, like all of these things 105 00:06:29,400 --> 00:06:32,080 Speaker 1: that are specific to women. But what we'll get into 106 00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:35,039 Speaker 1: more in this conversation is that it's that could be 107 00:06:35,160 --> 00:06:37,720 Speaker 1: a part of it, Like everybody's got pressures in their life, 108 00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:41,719 Speaker 1: but there's also a bit of of nature to contend with. Two. Yeah, 109 00:06:41,760 --> 00:06:45,320 Speaker 1: because a statistic that we will repeat a number of 110 00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:49,320 Speaker 1: times in this episode is that women are twice as 111 00:06:49,480 --> 00:06:54,920 Speaker 1: likely to report anxiety. And we've talked about this before 112 00:06:55,000 --> 00:06:58,160 Speaker 1: on the podcast. In fact, I'd even forgotten Caroline that 113 00:06:58,279 --> 00:07:04,560 Speaker 1: we had done anxiety related episode a while back, because 114 00:07:04,760 --> 00:07:07,640 Speaker 1: that's what happens when you've made over seven podcasts, when 115 00:07:07,680 --> 00:07:12,120 Speaker 1: you forget sometimes. Um But it seems so so current 116 00:07:12,160 --> 00:07:15,280 Speaker 1: and so relevant to to right now because there is 117 00:07:15,320 --> 00:07:19,960 Speaker 1: still this question mark of why are women in particular 118 00:07:20,520 --> 00:07:25,720 Speaker 1: so anxious? And are we really all that anxious? So first, 119 00:07:26,160 --> 00:07:29,760 Speaker 1: let's just do some anxiety one oh one. This is 120 00:07:29,760 --> 00:07:33,040 Speaker 1: coming from the National Institutes of Health UM AND and 121 00:07:33,080 --> 00:07:38,960 Speaker 1: it's important to distinguish what's normal and what's abnormal, because 122 00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:45,160 Speaker 1: temporary anxiety, hyper vigilance, and even fear, it's completely normal. 123 00:07:45,320 --> 00:07:48,360 Speaker 1: It's port of just being a human. Yeah. But the 124 00:07:48,400 --> 00:07:50,920 Speaker 1: thing that's not normal is when all of that stuff 125 00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:55,800 Speaker 1: sticks around, so long term anxiety that looms and ends 126 00:07:55,880 --> 00:07:59,680 Speaker 1: up diminishing and interfering in your quality of life. So 127 00:07:59,800 --> 00:08:05,600 Speaker 1: let's get more specific than about that dysfunctional long term anxiety. 128 00:08:05,760 --> 00:08:08,360 Speaker 1: It has to do more with the inability to focus 129 00:08:08,480 --> 00:08:14,760 Speaker 1: away from concerns despite rationally understanding that your reaction to 130 00:08:14,920 --> 00:08:19,679 Speaker 1: this thing is way bigger than the thing itself. And Carolina, 131 00:08:19,680 --> 00:08:25,000 Speaker 1: it's vigorously nodding her head. For instance. So in Georgia, 132 00:08:25,200 --> 00:08:30,280 Speaker 1: the company that mails out your tag renewal stickers went 133 00:08:30,400 --> 00:08:34,160 Speaker 1: bankrupt and nobody told anyone. And so my birthday is 134 00:08:34,200 --> 00:08:36,240 Speaker 1: coming up at the end of November. You can send 135 00:08:36,280 --> 00:08:38,640 Speaker 1: your presence to just kidding. And so all of a 136 00:08:38,679 --> 00:08:41,880 Speaker 1: sudden last week I realized, wait, I never received the 137 00:08:42,240 --> 00:08:45,080 Speaker 1: registration renewal thing in the mail, and you know, with 138 00:08:45,120 --> 00:08:47,200 Speaker 1: the thing where you send in your emissions test and 139 00:08:47,240 --> 00:08:49,480 Speaker 1: all of this stuff. And so I start panicking this morning, 140 00:08:49,520 --> 00:08:52,640 Speaker 1: like literally to the point of pounding chest, pounding heart, 141 00:08:53,320 --> 00:08:57,600 Speaker 1: sweating red in the face, like panicking about what I 142 00:08:57,600 --> 00:08:59,280 Speaker 1: need to get my emissions tested? When am I going 143 00:08:59,320 --> 00:09:01,360 Speaker 1: to do that? Like a gotta get that done? Um. 144 00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:03,680 Speaker 1: And then once I do that, like, because they're not 145 00:09:03,720 --> 00:09:05,400 Speaker 1: mailing it out. I actually have to go to the 146 00:09:05,440 --> 00:09:07,839 Speaker 1: tag office, which that's anxiety and do thing. I've got 147 00:09:07,840 --> 00:09:09,440 Speaker 1: to bring all these forms, fill out all this stuff. 148 00:09:09,440 --> 00:09:11,560 Speaker 1: I've got to have my tag and title and blah 149 00:09:11,559 --> 00:09:13,680 Speaker 1: blah blah blah blah. And then I talked to my 150 00:09:13,679 --> 00:09:15,680 Speaker 1: boyfriend and he's like, no, no, no, no, it's it 151 00:09:15,760 --> 00:09:18,000 Speaker 1: expires on your birthday. So your birthdays at the end 152 00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:20,400 Speaker 1: of November. You literally have like a month from now 153 00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:23,280 Speaker 1: to do this. And I was like, but now I 154 00:09:23,320 --> 00:09:26,920 Speaker 1: can't stop panicking. And so even though, like all morning, 155 00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:29,960 Speaker 1: I've been like, it's fine, even though I'm panicking about 156 00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:31,920 Speaker 1: this tag thing, which is really not a big deal 157 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:35,000 Speaker 1: and I can handle it very easily. And oh but 158 00:09:35,160 --> 00:09:37,079 Speaker 1: now I need to to read for the podcast. Oh 159 00:09:37,080 --> 00:09:38,920 Speaker 1: my god, how can I focus on reading for our 160 00:09:38,960 --> 00:09:40,960 Speaker 1: podcast today if I've got to worry about the tag thing. 161 00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:44,480 Speaker 1: And it's like, um, brain, uh, we don't have to 162 00:09:44,520 --> 00:09:47,400 Speaker 1: worry about these things. It's fine. But like it's physically 163 00:09:47,520 --> 00:09:49,920 Speaker 1: just took over it like didn't matter how much I 164 00:09:50,040 --> 00:09:53,080 Speaker 1: rationalized it. I was still sitting there like, um, my 165 00:09:53,120 --> 00:09:56,319 Speaker 1: whole life is crashing down around me. Oh, this is unfortunate. 166 00:09:56,360 --> 00:09:58,920 Speaker 1: Maybe I should just drink some more water and less coffee. 167 00:09:59,080 --> 00:10:02,800 Speaker 1: I mean, to be fair, Caroline, the whole tag situation 168 00:10:03,120 --> 00:10:06,240 Speaker 1: is a headache, and the fact that they send it 169 00:10:06,280 --> 00:10:10,559 Speaker 1: on your birthday is like the rudest present ever, because like, oh, 170 00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:15,000 Speaker 1: here is a couple hundred dollars government. Of course I 171 00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:17,600 Speaker 1: want to go have an emissions test um. And also 172 00:10:17,640 --> 00:10:19,200 Speaker 1: I think it's maybe just a sign that you need 173 00:10:19,240 --> 00:10:21,880 Speaker 1: an assistant. You know you have a therapist, Now I 174 00:10:21,920 --> 00:10:24,000 Speaker 1: need an assist I've been I joked about this to 175 00:10:24,040 --> 00:10:26,800 Speaker 1: my boyfriend the other day because he is self employed 176 00:10:26,840 --> 00:10:30,960 Speaker 1: in the music industry, and I was like, Hey, wouldn't 177 00:10:30,960 --> 00:10:34,960 Speaker 1: that be funny dot dot dot if we shared a 178 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:37,440 Speaker 1: personal assistant. I don't know how we would pay for one. 179 00:10:37,640 --> 00:10:40,640 Speaker 1: So if anyone wants to be an intern of girlfriend 180 00:10:40,640 --> 00:10:43,800 Speaker 1: and boyfriend, inc. That would be much appreciated, isn't it 181 00:10:43,880 --> 00:10:51,439 Speaker 1: girlfriend dog boyfriend dog Inc? So correct? Are the couple speak? People? Low? Um? Well? 182 00:10:51,440 --> 00:10:56,840 Speaker 1: In those kinds of experiences, regardless of whether it is 183 00:10:56,880 --> 00:11:00,640 Speaker 1: something that seems as minor as getting your hag renude 184 00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:07,280 Speaker 1: or something that is some legitimately life altering event, can 185 00:11:07,440 --> 00:11:13,080 Speaker 1: involve more symptoms of this cyclical long term anxiety like 186 00:11:13,200 --> 00:11:18,040 Speaker 1: that unshakable sadness, which which will lead into depression. And 187 00:11:18,080 --> 00:11:21,559 Speaker 1: depression and anxiety often go hand in hand. You can 188 00:11:21,559 --> 00:11:26,080 Speaker 1: have all the difficulty just relaxing in general. This is 189 00:11:26,160 --> 00:11:29,240 Speaker 1: part of why, um, I tend to watch My Too 190 00:11:29,280 --> 00:11:35,439 Speaker 1: Guiltiest Pleasures on television, Nashville and Scandal while cleaning. Wait, 191 00:11:35,520 --> 00:11:39,040 Speaker 1: so meaning you're like keyed up while you're cleaning, or 192 00:11:39,080 --> 00:11:43,000 Speaker 1: you're cleaning and watching these shows to relax. I'm cleaning 193 00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:45,280 Speaker 1: and watching the shows to relax. I would not be 194 00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:48,480 Speaker 1: able to just sit down on the couch and watch 195 00:11:48,559 --> 00:11:50,880 Speaker 1: an episode of Nashville because you're like, I have all 196 00:11:50,920 --> 00:11:53,520 Speaker 1: these other things, and I would be like, there there 197 00:11:53,600 --> 00:11:58,719 Speaker 1: is dust on the floor. I must sweep it. I mean, 198 00:11:58,760 --> 00:12:00,720 Speaker 1: And it's also just a handy way of of getting 199 00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:03,640 Speaker 1: the house clean while being entertained by Olivia, Pope and 200 00:12:03,720 --> 00:12:07,360 Speaker 1: co Um. But those physical symptoms, Caroline that you mentioned 201 00:12:07,480 --> 00:12:09,680 Speaker 1: are also a big part of this as well. Anxiety 202 00:12:09,720 --> 00:12:12,319 Speaker 1: is a very physiological kind of thing. It's not all 203 00:12:12,400 --> 00:12:16,240 Speaker 1: just in our heads, because it can lead to fatigue, headaches, 204 00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:23,199 Speaker 1: muscle tension difficulties, swallowing, tugling, twitching, sweating, as you mentioned, nausea, 205 00:12:23,520 --> 00:12:26,719 Speaker 1: I get a heat in my chest, um, having to 206 00:12:26,760 --> 00:12:30,199 Speaker 1: go to the bathroom frequently, which will happen. I mean, 207 00:12:30,240 --> 00:12:32,280 Speaker 1: I think this is just like general nervous. I'm a 208 00:12:32,320 --> 00:12:35,440 Speaker 1: nervous peer. Yeah, I'm definitely a nervous peer. In fact, 209 00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:39,800 Speaker 1: I gotta go right now, um, feeling out of breath, 210 00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:42,719 Speaker 1: all of the things that you would expect. Yeah, no, 211 00:12:42,880 --> 00:12:47,120 Speaker 1: I absolutely get those things and deep breath. UM. I 212 00:12:47,240 --> 00:12:51,000 Speaker 1: also get I have a lot of trouble sleeping. Um. 213 00:12:51,040 --> 00:12:53,480 Speaker 1: Back when I started doing the podcast with you, Kristen, 214 00:12:53,760 --> 00:12:55,880 Speaker 1: like because I had a day job and I was 215 00:12:55,920 --> 00:12:59,800 Speaker 1: doing the podcast with Kristen on the side um, the 216 00:12:59,800 --> 00:13:04,480 Speaker 1: podcast with my side piece, and I it was like 217 00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:06,200 Speaker 1: a shake up to my routine. I'm also a very 218 00:13:06,280 --> 00:13:11,280 Speaker 1: routine driven person, very regimented, and so here there's like 219 00:13:11,320 --> 00:13:13,800 Speaker 1: a little more work, a little routine shake up, and 220 00:13:13,800 --> 00:13:16,400 Speaker 1: suddenly I'm not sleeping. And it's interesting because I've talked 221 00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:20,040 Speaker 1: about this on the podcast before, but during that time, 222 00:13:20,640 --> 00:13:23,440 Speaker 1: I was at my kindecologist and I was telling her. 223 00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:25,360 Speaker 1: I was like, you know, I'm really anxious lately. I'm 224 00:13:25,360 --> 00:13:27,920 Speaker 1: pretty sure it's just like circumstantial I'm having trouble sleeping 225 00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:30,520 Speaker 1: or whatever, and she's she just wrote me a prescription 226 00:13:30,679 --> 00:13:34,000 Speaker 1: for an anti anxiety medication. And I was like, you 227 00:13:34,040 --> 00:13:37,839 Speaker 1: don't know anything about anything that I'm dealing with right now. 228 00:13:37,880 --> 00:13:41,400 Speaker 1: I'm not going to fill this prescription. But yeah, Luckily 229 00:13:41,440 --> 00:13:43,560 Speaker 1: the sleeping, the sleeping thing comes in waves, though, Like 230 00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:46,360 Speaker 1: if I am the tiniest bit anxious about anything, my 231 00:13:46,440 --> 00:13:48,839 Speaker 1: dad's the same way, like I'll run into him. When 232 00:13:48,840 --> 00:13:50,800 Speaker 1: I was living at home, I'd run into my dad 233 00:13:50,800 --> 00:13:52,839 Speaker 1: at like three in the morning. I'd be getting home 234 00:13:53,760 --> 00:13:58,080 Speaker 1: from being out with friends, and he'd be up, like, yeah, 235 00:13:58,080 --> 00:14:03,040 Speaker 1: I just got up, I'm awake now coffee. And so, 236 00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:05,760 Speaker 1: I mean, neither my dad nor I, like I said, 237 00:14:05,840 --> 00:14:10,320 Speaker 1: have been diagnosed with any type of specific anxiety disorder. 238 00:14:10,360 --> 00:14:13,240 Speaker 1: I think we're just like kind of nervous people. We've 239 00:14:13,320 --> 00:14:18,280 Speaker 1: probably the nervous servants, that's right, the nervous urbans. But 240 00:14:18,840 --> 00:14:23,480 Speaker 1: there are three primary types of anxiety disorder. We've got 241 00:14:23,520 --> 00:14:26,800 Speaker 1: generalized anxiety disorder, which is what Kristen mentioned, which is 242 00:14:26,840 --> 00:14:30,760 Speaker 1: that persistent, unrealistic worry that just sort of interferes with 243 00:14:30,840 --> 00:14:35,080 Speaker 1: your functioning. It's fun, it's so fun. You've got panic 244 00:14:35,160 --> 00:14:39,560 Speaker 1: disorder and also social anxiety disorder, which is actually the 245 00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:44,600 Speaker 1: most common, And it's that extreme fear of being judged. 246 00:14:44,640 --> 00:14:46,800 Speaker 1: It's it's this feeling. It I don't get it all 247 00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:50,480 Speaker 1: the time. It really depends on I mean almost the day, 248 00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:54,000 Speaker 1: but I might walk in somewhere and just immediately get 249 00:14:54,040 --> 00:14:58,720 Speaker 1: this full body pressure, dread, feeling like I get hot 250 00:14:58,760 --> 00:15:02,160 Speaker 1: all over, feeling like everyone is looking at me, everyone 251 00:15:02,240 --> 00:15:05,720 Speaker 1: is judging me, whether it's what I'm wearing whatever. Uh, 252 00:15:05,720 --> 00:15:09,440 Speaker 1: and that can be so hard to break out of mentally. Yeah, 253 00:15:09,440 --> 00:15:12,960 Speaker 1: I experienced a lot of that, and listeners, you tell us, 254 00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:15,160 Speaker 1: I think that it's a topic that we should circle 255 00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:18,520 Speaker 1: back to and do our an entire episode on it, 256 00:15:18,800 --> 00:15:22,680 Speaker 1: because it's another one of those things where I'm hearing 257 00:15:22,720 --> 00:15:25,480 Speaker 1: people talk about it more than ever before of saying, oh, 258 00:15:25,520 --> 00:15:28,600 Speaker 1: I'm so socially anxious. Oh my social anxiety. That's my 259 00:15:28,640 --> 00:15:32,040 Speaker 1: social anxiety that and uh, this is actually something that 260 00:15:32,280 --> 00:15:38,680 Speaker 1: especially happens on YouTube and within the YouTube community, um, 261 00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:44,520 Speaker 1: where there's there's even some debate over real social anxiety 262 00:15:44,680 --> 00:15:48,000 Speaker 1: versus like legit sociophobia. These people cannot leave their homes 263 00:15:48,080 --> 00:15:50,760 Speaker 1: or just part of why they're watching so many YouTube videos. Um, 264 00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:52,960 Speaker 1: so I think that would be a great topic to 265 00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:58,360 Speaker 1: revisit because it's it's another thing that I also experience. Um, 266 00:15:58,440 --> 00:16:00,720 Speaker 1: but I think that a lot of people will confuse 267 00:16:00,920 --> 00:16:06,760 Speaker 1: just general social angst with the actual disorder. Yeah self, Um, 268 00:16:06,760 --> 00:16:10,480 Speaker 1: but when it comes to just anxiety disorders, this surprised me. 269 00:16:10,520 --> 00:16:14,800 Speaker 1: The average age of onset was thirty one. I about 270 00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:18,160 Speaker 1: to turn thirty two. Cool. Alright, well, Caroline, I'm thirty, 271 00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:21,160 Speaker 1: so I'm a little ahead of the curve. You know, 272 00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:26,440 Speaker 1: my brain well done? And the primary treatments for anxiety 273 00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:31,960 Speaker 1: disorders are cognitive and behavior therapy, exposure therapy, which is 274 00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:35,680 Speaker 1: when I think of exposure therapy parents. No, I think 275 00:16:35,680 --> 00:16:40,200 Speaker 1: it's just being like thrown into a giant networking mixer 276 00:16:40,600 --> 00:16:42,880 Speaker 1: event where I know no one and there's no alcohol 277 00:16:42,920 --> 00:16:46,280 Speaker 1: being served. Like okay, yeah, no, let me add to that. Okay, 278 00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:49,760 Speaker 1: so we're being thrown into a networking event with no alcohol. 279 00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:52,560 Speaker 1: But also the room is hot, so my hands are 280 00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:55,760 Speaker 1: already sweaty from being nervous, but then it's hot in there, 281 00:16:55,840 --> 00:16:57,960 Speaker 1: and so then I'm just sweaty all over in my hand. 282 00:16:58,160 --> 00:17:01,480 Speaker 1: So then I what I do? Um, this is real life. Like, 283 00:17:01,560 --> 00:17:03,040 Speaker 1: let's say I am holding a drink and in this 284 00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:06,040 Speaker 1: scenario it's non alcoholic, so I'm holding my ice water, 285 00:17:06,080 --> 00:17:08,439 Speaker 1: and I make sure to get my hand super wet 286 00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:10,679 Speaker 1: and cold. And then so when it comes to shaking 287 00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:12,480 Speaker 1: somebody's hand, I'm like, oh, sorry, hang on, let me 288 00:17:12,520 --> 00:17:14,639 Speaker 1: wipe my hand off, and then I go for the 289 00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:17,480 Speaker 1: handshake because it it's two birds with one stone, like, oh, 290 00:17:17,720 --> 00:17:19,760 Speaker 1: her hand is wet, and I'm just giving so much away. 291 00:17:19,840 --> 00:17:21,399 Speaker 1: People are never going to shake my hand. These are 292 00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:24,479 Speaker 1: great tips, So Caroline, you're welcome. So yeah, once at 293 00:17:24,520 --> 00:17:26,440 Speaker 1: least my hand is cold. Then when I shake it 294 00:17:26,520 --> 00:17:28,920 Speaker 1: and it's been recently wiped off, so I'm like, and 295 00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:30,600 Speaker 1: then if you have a cold hand and you were 296 00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:33,760 Speaker 1: to shake my mother's hand, she would say, oh cold hands, warm, horror, 297 00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:38,160 Speaker 1: and then I would hug her. But if making your 298 00:17:38,280 --> 00:17:43,240 Speaker 1: hands wet and wiping them off slightly, it's not strong 299 00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:48,480 Speaker 1: enough therapy. Of course, there are antidepressants, anti anxiety medications, 300 00:17:48,520 --> 00:17:51,320 Speaker 1: and also beta blockers. Yeah, and I mean what I 301 00:17:51,359 --> 00:17:54,199 Speaker 1: said earlier about not filling the prescription for the anti 302 00:17:54,280 --> 00:17:56,600 Speaker 1: anxiety med that my kind of college is prescribed is 303 00:17:56,640 --> 00:17:59,320 Speaker 1: not to say that that's not valid and not important 304 00:17:59,359 --> 00:18:01,520 Speaker 1: for a lot of people. I have several friends who 305 00:18:01,560 --> 00:18:04,760 Speaker 1: are on these types of medications and it saves them. 306 00:18:04,800 --> 00:18:07,840 Speaker 1: I mean, it's critical to their health. I'm just saying 307 00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:11,680 Speaker 1: that for me, well, maybe I'll need it in the future. 308 00:18:11,840 --> 00:18:15,040 Speaker 1: Right then, I felt very uncomfortable accepting a prescription from 309 00:18:15,080 --> 00:18:18,520 Speaker 1: a health professional who wasn't fully familiar with my mental 310 00:18:18,560 --> 00:18:21,880 Speaker 1: health stuff. Yeah, that's completely understandable. I would be nervous 311 00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:26,280 Speaker 1: about getting on something that a doctor who didn't know 312 00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:29,920 Speaker 1: me very well just you know, quickly wrote she knows 313 00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:33,560 Speaker 1: my vagina really well, but not what's going on up 314 00:18:33,560 --> 00:18:35,639 Speaker 1: here in the brain part. It's like, well, you have 315 00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:39,159 Speaker 1: vagina is a little anxious, So I'm sure it is 316 00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:47,760 Speaker 1: all nervous and um, but who is this happening to? UM? 317 00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:50,840 Speaker 1: In the United States are commonly cited statistic is it 318 00:18:51,119 --> 00:18:56,040 Speaker 1: seventeen percent of us? We are the seventeen percent well, 319 00:18:56,119 --> 00:19:01,000 Speaker 1: experience disordered anxiety at some point during any given here. 320 00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:04,200 Speaker 1: So it's very common. And around the world I thought 321 00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:07,639 Speaker 1: this was notable. Around seven point three percent of the 322 00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:12,359 Speaker 1: population live with generalized anxiety disorder. There's so many people 323 00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:14,879 Speaker 1: that as so many people, I mean that's seventeen percent 324 00:19:14,920 --> 00:19:18,240 Speaker 1: in the U s alone, equates to forty million people. Yeah, 325 00:19:18,280 --> 00:19:20,720 Speaker 1: that's a lot of computeople. It's a lot of anxiety, 326 00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:24,880 Speaker 1: a lot of nervous vaginas, and it's definitely on the rise, 327 00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:29,639 Speaker 1: at least the diagnosis of it. For instance, inve Reuters 328 00:19:29,720 --> 00:19:35,560 Speaker 1: reported that anxiety disorders were up twelve hundred percent since 329 00:19:35,680 --> 00:19:37,560 Speaker 1: nineteen eighty. And this really isn't news. I mean, we 330 00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:39,479 Speaker 1: hear about it all the time, like, Oh, Americans are 331 00:19:39,480 --> 00:19:41,800 Speaker 1: more depressed than ever before, We're more anxious than ever before. 332 00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:45,399 Speaker 1: Other countries don't have these problems that we're having. What's 333 00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:49,440 Speaker 1: going on? So what is going on? I mean? And 334 00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:52,040 Speaker 1: the thing is, that's a very tough question to answer 335 00:19:52,080 --> 00:19:57,879 Speaker 1: because there's no one factor that explains anxiety disorders. Or, 336 00:19:57,920 --> 00:20:01,679 Speaker 1: as psychiatrist George McCarry put it more poetically in The 337 00:20:01,680 --> 00:20:05,640 Speaker 1: New York Times, he said, quote, they implicate a possible 338 00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:12,399 Speaker 1: symphonic interaction of DNA hormones, neurons, anticipatory fantasies, memories and thoughts, 339 00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:16,440 Speaker 1: as well as the constraints and opportunities of our culture. 340 00:20:16,520 --> 00:20:21,119 Speaker 1: So it's inescapable, is what I'm and complex? Yeah, and 341 00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:23,120 Speaker 1: so not only do we want to talk about this 342 00:20:23,320 --> 00:20:28,240 Speaker 1: because selfishly because we struggle with anxiety, and also forty 343 00:20:28,280 --> 00:20:32,400 Speaker 1: million Americans struggle with anxiety, but also because, like Kristen said, 344 00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:37,240 Speaker 1: it reportedly affects twice as many women. But first, let's 345 00:20:37,280 --> 00:20:41,600 Speaker 1: take a moment and and look at the language of anxiety, 346 00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:46,320 Speaker 1: because to me, this is relevant to how we are 347 00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:50,760 Speaker 1: how we're talking about and considering anxiety today. Because anxiety 348 00:20:50,840 --> 00:20:53,400 Speaker 1: is such a catch all term because it can mean 349 00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:59,040 Speaker 1: something diagnostic, or it can just mean feeling nervous about 350 00:20:59,119 --> 00:21:02,119 Speaker 1: having to take a test or record a podcast is 351 00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:07,080 Speaker 1: very normal kinds of feelings and written descriptions of anxiety 352 00:21:07,119 --> 00:21:09,800 Speaker 1: go back to ancient Greece and Rome, but it's really 353 00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:14,120 Speaker 1: not until the early nineteenth century the closer medical examinations 354 00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:17,960 Speaker 1: and descriptions of anxiety emerged. And this was something that 355 00:21:18,119 --> 00:21:21,760 Speaker 1: psychiatrist Makari was writing about in the New York Times, 356 00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:26,680 Speaker 1: and I really enjoyed him laying out how it it 357 00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:32,080 Speaker 1: takes on different meanings within different languages. Yeah, in French, 358 00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:35,440 Speaker 1: for instance, we have the word anglass, which equates to 359 00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:41,000 Speaker 1: tortured misery that sounds pleasant. The German word angst, which 360 00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:44,560 Speaker 1: that should sound familiar. Is that foreboding feeling in the 361 00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:47,480 Speaker 1: pit of your stomach, like when you're me and you 362 00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:50,840 Speaker 1: walk into a room full of people. The Spanish have 363 00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:54,080 Speaker 1: the word angusta, which is that breathless panic that I 364 00:21:54,160 --> 00:22:00,240 Speaker 1: experience all the time, and in written the word paink 365 00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:03,959 Speaker 1: derived from the Greek myth of the god Pan whose 366 00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:08,240 Speaker 1: woodsy revel rousing induced terror and people. Pan was like 367 00:22:08,280 --> 00:22:11,560 Speaker 1: the half goat, half man guy who like messed with people. 368 00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:12,919 Speaker 1: I was going to say a bad word and then 369 00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:15,479 Speaker 1: I remember where we were. Anyway, he was a woodsy 370 00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:19,000 Speaker 1: rabble rouser. That sums it up well. But it was 371 00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:22,920 Speaker 1: actually Old Freud who was the first to coin anxiety 372 00:22:23,119 --> 00:22:25,000 Speaker 1: as we think of it today, and he called it 373 00:22:25,160 --> 00:22:29,080 Speaker 1: signal anxiety, and he was the first to propose it 374 00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:32,600 Speaker 1: being purely physiologically. And of course Froy to Sam that 375 00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:35,919 Speaker 1: anxiety just had to do with sex. He thought that 376 00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:40,439 Speaker 1: it was a result of essentially your libido being all 377 00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:45,479 Speaker 1: clogged up and you just needed to have more and 378 00:22:45,560 --> 00:22:49,399 Speaker 1: better sex. I don't want I clogged up, No, I 379 00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:52,719 Speaker 1: rejected in my brain. Um. Yeah. He talked about signal 380 00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:59,120 Speaker 1: anxiety as being that small amount of anticipatory discomfort basically 381 00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:02,160 Speaker 1: that leads you to like snowball into an anxiety spiral. 382 00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:08,920 Speaker 1: But in Freud's terms, could it be like an anxious vagina? Yeah, 383 00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:13,160 Speaker 1: I'm sure if he didn't think that, I would be surprised. 384 00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:19,119 Speaker 1: But even today, some clinicians and anxiety sufferers worry that 385 00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:23,159 Speaker 1: the way we talk about anxiety is still too nebulous 386 00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:29,040 Speaker 1: and casual, because I mean, anxiety itself, especially like clinically, 387 00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:33,480 Speaker 1: is already murky and and the fact that we don't 388 00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:36,679 Speaker 1: have more precise language to define it is why some 389 00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:41,320 Speaker 1: people think that we still don't fully understand it, or 390 00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:44,560 Speaker 1: maybe reflects how we don't fully understand it because, like 391 00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:48,639 Speaker 1: I said just a minute ago, anxiety has multiple meanings, 392 00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:53,800 Speaker 1: but when it comes to this diagnostic criteria, anxiety is 393 00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:59,120 Speaker 1: already murky territory. So the fact we don't have more 394 00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:02,520 Speaker 1: precise language maybe reflects how there are so many question 395 00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:05,160 Speaker 1: marks when it comes to what is causing this on 396 00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:09,159 Speaker 1: an individual level, because their theories about our autonomous nervous 397 00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:13,119 Speaker 1: system acting past trauma imprinted on the brain, cultural and 398 00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:19,000 Speaker 1: technological forces making life unbearable. Because seriously, Instagram makes everything 399 00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:22,639 Speaker 1: looks so perfect, why can't we have Instagram filters for 400 00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:26,480 Speaker 1: our lives. I r l um. But then there are 401 00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:29,800 Speaker 1: questions of genetic or maybe it's just like a hodgepodge 402 00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:33,480 Speaker 1: of all of these things. So I mean, I guess 403 00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:36,000 Speaker 1: in a way too, that's an awful lot for one 404 00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:39,360 Speaker 1: word to sum up. Yeah, that's why I like all 405 00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:42,919 Speaker 1: those all those uh, foreign words. That sounds like a 406 00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:45,840 Speaker 1: really American thing to say, those foreign words, all those 407 00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:49,439 Speaker 1: foreign words France for as I don't know. I like 408 00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:52,160 Speaker 1: the Spanish word better, just the idea of breathless panic 409 00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:54,480 Speaker 1: because I'm like, oh my god, a word from my life, 410 00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:58,600 Speaker 1: and honestly, it just sounds you know, there's a little 411 00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:01,640 Speaker 1: romance to it. Get Yeah, a lot of anxiety is romantic, 412 00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:03,480 Speaker 1: Like maybe if I had a daughter, I could name 413 00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:08,600 Speaker 1: her that, oh poor girl. But personally I did like 414 00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:12,840 Speaker 1: Patricia Pearson's definition of it. In her anxiety memoir A 415 00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:16,280 Speaker 1: Brief History of Anxiety, she defined it as fear in 416 00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:19,640 Speaker 1: search of a cause. That's so perfect because I think 417 00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:23,399 Speaker 1: she talks about as does anyone who struggles with anxiety 418 00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:26,840 Speaker 1: and myself, she talks about how like, even when things 419 00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:31,040 Speaker 1: are going great, your brain still is in like seek 420 00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:33,840 Speaker 1: and destroy mode. In terms of like I need to 421 00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:37,119 Speaker 1: find something to be worried about, because it's again, like 422 00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:39,280 Speaker 1: I was saying earlier, it's like it's a baseline state 423 00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:42,080 Speaker 1: for a lot of people. So if something's going really well, 424 00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:44,400 Speaker 1: and I mean this is something that I've worked through 425 00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:48,320 Speaker 1: with my therapist, I have definitely gotten the stereotypical therapist 426 00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:52,240 Speaker 1: question of like, are you just causing trouble for yourself 427 00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:54,520 Speaker 1: because things are going really well in your life? And 428 00:25:54,560 --> 00:26:00,479 Speaker 1: it's like, well, yeah, probably all Augustina over here on couch. 429 00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:04,680 Speaker 1: I know. I feel like if I were named that, 430 00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:07,439 Speaker 1: I would totally be in like Victorian Garb on a 431 00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:11,320 Speaker 1: fainting couches. That's how I just pictured myself with my 432 00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:14,200 Speaker 1: like my arm over my face. But you, as either 433 00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:20,399 Speaker 1: you or Victorian Augusta, you is the quintessential anxiety patient. 434 00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:26,560 Speaker 1: And that is another huge question mark that researchers and 435 00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:30,520 Speaker 1: doctors are still trying to figure out of this anxiety 436 00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:34,520 Speaker 1: gender gap, because across the board, it's not just anxiety. 437 00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:40,000 Speaker 1: Stress related diseases are more common among women hands down, 438 00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:44,400 Speaker 1: and some of it might be because men simply aren't 439 00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:48,040 Speaker 1: going to therapy. They aren't seeking out treatment for things 440 00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:50,520 Speaker 1: that might be going on in their minds and their brains. 441 00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:54,040 Speaker 1: Um Slate reported that men make up just thirty seven 442 00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:57,479 Speaker 1: per cent of therapy patients, for instance, and when it 443 00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:01,240 Speaker 1: comes to our physical doctor ers, men are less likely 444 00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:04,040 Speaker 1: to go as well, So if they're not going to 445 00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:08,159 Speaker 1: see their doctor, they're less likely to you know, be 446 00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:11,280 Speaker 1: having these issues come up and having medications being written in, 447 00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:14,640 Speaker 1: diagnoses being handed out. Well, we also talked about language 448 00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:16,720 Speaker 1: in the way that we talk about anxiety and like, 449 00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:19,480 Speaker 1: oh my god, what what's the cause? Is that? Nature 450 00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:21,720 Speaker 1: nurture blah blah blah, all this stuff. Well, part of 451 00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:25,800 Speaker 1: the problem could be also the way we talk about anxiety, 452 00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:27,879 Speaker 1: not only where it comes from, but the fact that 453 00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:31,639 Speaker 1: we tend to frame anxiety is a woman thing. I 454 00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:34,879 Speaker 1: know plenty of guys who struggle with some form of anxiety, 455 00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:38,880 Speaker 1: and maybe if something is framed as like the feminine problem, 456 00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:42,160 Speaker 1: the woman problem, maybe that could also put some men, 457 00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:45,560 Speaker 1: not all men, some men off of seeking help for 458 00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:50,000 Speaker 1: that particular problem. Yeah, and that whole issue is something 459 00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:52,600 Speaker 1: that will circle back around to when we're talking about 460 00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:58,679 Speaker 1: the nurture side of the anxiety nature nurture conversation. Um. 461 00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:02,520 Speaker 1: But if we look at kids up until eleven years old. 462 00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:06,199 Speaker 1: Boys and girls are equally prone to anxiety disorders. And 463 00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:10,680 Speaker 1: this is something we've seen happen with so many issues 464 00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:16,639 Speaker 1: because once puberty hits, the girls change, our periods, change everything. 465 00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:20,080 Speaker 1: It seems like by fifteen years old, girls are six 466 00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:26,440 Speaker 1: times likelier to have an anxiety disorder. But it takes 467 00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:30,280 Speaker 1: an average of nine to twelve years between the onset 468 00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:34,240 Speaker 1: of these anxiety symptoms and getting a diagnosis. And this 469 00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:37,119 Speaker 1: is nothing new. If you've listened to other Sminty episodes 470 00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:41,240 Speaker 1: about women's health issues, this should not be a new concept. 471 00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:45,240 Speaker 1: And even once these women go get a diagnosis, even 472 00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:48,640 Speaker 1: then some people think that it's still underdiagnosed. And then 473 00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:50,520 Speaker 1: on top of that too, there's a question of getting 474 00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:53,200 Speaker 1: the right kind of treatment and sticking with that treatment 475 00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:56,440 Speaker 1: long enough for it to make a real difference. Because 476 00:28:57,160 --> 00:29:02,360 Speaker 1: here's the bonus information. I hear, breathless, Hannah, my ags 477 00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:05,640 Speaker 1: is coming up. Uh, it doesn't get better with age. 478 00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:10,200 Speaker 1: More recent research is actually found that as we get older, 479 00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:17,120 Speaker 1: anxiety and depression worsens and becomes complicated by physical aches, pains, 480 00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:20,120 Speaker 1: and panics. Well, I'm sure it also worsens if you're 481 00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:23,160 Speaker 1: not if you're one of the people who considers it 482 00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:25,840 Speaker 1: such a baseline state that you're not doing anything to 483 00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:31,280 Speaker 1: counteract it, that you're not actively using those techniques of breathing, 484 00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:36,719 Speaker 1: maybe seeking cognitive behavioral therapy, seeking medication to help cope, 485 00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:39,520 Speaker 1: help deal with it well. And if we think that 486 00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:46,200 Speaker 1: women's report self reported health care needs are often delegitimized, 487 00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:50,800 Speaker 1: think about it in terms of our senior population and 488 00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:55,880 Speaker 1: how you know they're often brushed to the side as well. Um. 489 00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:58,360 Speaker 1: But one thing I wanted to mention in terms of 490 00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:01,800 Speaker 1: getting older and anxiety pity, and something that jumped out 491 00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:04,120 Speaker 1: to me and my personal experience and something that I 492 00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:08,320 Speaker 1: have talked with other friends about because it's happened to 493 00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:12,840 Speaker 1: them as well, is that just in our late twenties, 494 00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:20,400 Speaker 1: the anxiety that happens after drinking alcohol is out of control, 495 00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:23,600 Speaker 1: the old anxiety hangover. And when I was looking for 496 00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:26,800 Speaker 1: sources on this, there really wasn't that much on it 497 00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:31,080 Speaker 1: outside of posts on like sobriety websites and like Calumn 498 00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:33,600 Speaker 1: Clinic dot com. Um. But it's something that I know 499 00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:37,200 Speaker 1: so exists because I've talked to so many people about 500 00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:39,360 Speaker 1: it where it's like, Yeah, when we were in college, 501 00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:41,880 Speaker 1: we could drink all we wanted and we'd feel bad. 502 00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:45,200 Speaker 1: We'd have the headache and the physical symptoms the next day. 503 00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:49,240 Speaker 1: But hitting thirty, if I have a hangover, it is 504 00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:52,920 Speaker 1: not so much physical, it is one mental. That's interesting. 505 00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:55,840 Speaker 1: So you feel, do you feel more anxious or do 506 00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:58,400 Speaker 1: you I mean, what's Yeah, I mean that's it's an 507 00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:02,760 Speaker 1: anxiety hangover day. Yeah, I mean, and it's from maybe 508 00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:05,840 Speaker 1: I'm just staying out with a lot of alcoholics, but 509 00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:07,640 Speaker 1: I know a lot of people that it happens to, 510 00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:11,040 Speaker 1: and among my circle of friends, this was not something 511 00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:13,640 Speaker 1: that we talked about in our new twenties. Yeah, no, 512 00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:16,160 Speaker 1: I know that because I drink so much. I drink 513 00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:19,440 Speaker 1: far less than I used to, far far, far far 514 00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:23,719 Speaker 1: less than I used to. And that does coincide with 515 00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:28,160 Speaker 1: the rise of my anxiety in my experience, because I 516 00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:31,040 Speaker 1: was always using it as a way to like get 517 00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:34,840 Speaker 1: through social engagements and be funny and let loose and 518 00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:37,880 Speaker 1: not be uptight and regimented. And so now that I'm 519 00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:41,040 Speaker 1: like dealing with life issues not by drinking them away 520 00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:44,840 Speaker 1: or literally like running away from them, I'm having all 521 00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:47,120 Speaker 1: of those panic symptoms because it's like, oh, I really 522 00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:49,560 Speaker 1: have to dig into this now. Well, and it's also 523 00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:52,600 Speaker 1: worth keeping in mind too that just physically, as we 524 00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:55,560 Speaker 1: get older, and by older, I mean just like out 525 00:31:55,600 --> 00:32:00,600 Speaker 1: of our twenties, our liver's capacity to process alcohol drastically 526 00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:04,000 Speaker 1: slows down, So our bodies are just getting old. In general, 527 00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:06,520 Speaker 1: we're just breaking down and turning to dust. It's fine, 528 00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:10,400 Speaker 1: it's fine, But now it's really focused in on this 529 00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:15,040 Speaker 1: gender gap question. That statistic that women are twice as 530 00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:22,280 Speaker 1: likely to have anxiety, So are women wired to worry? 531 00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:24,640 Speaker 1: It seems like so much of the stuff that we 532 00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:28,560 Speaker 1: read about anxiety points to women as being the more 533 00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:31,840 Speaker 1: anxious sex, the people who are not only more likely 534 00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:36,040 Speaker 1: to be anxious, but more likely to seek help for anxiety. 535 00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:39,680 Speaker 1: And in the reading that we've done, it's clear that 536 00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:43,960 Speaker 1: perhaps our brains are a little bit more sensitive to 537 00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:48,200 Speaker 1: certain stress hormones and possibly less able to adapt to 538 00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:50,960 Speaker 1: high levels of them. Yeah, that was something that l 539 00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:56,240 Speaker 1: magazine talked about with Dr Rita Valentino because she's done 540 00:32:56,800 --> 00:33:01,080 Speaker 1: some pretty groundbreaking research on rat's brains, because a lot 541 00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:03,520 Speaker 1: of what we know about our own brains come from rats, 542 00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:07,880 Speaker 1: which is funny, um and She found that female rats 543 00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:13,960 Speaker 1: brains were more sensitive to the stress neuropeptide corticotrope and 544 00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:19,960 Speaker 1: releasing factor or CRF, and CRF essentially chilts your arousal 545 00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:23,920 Speaker 1: vigilance and changes in attention. It's that hyper vigilance that 546 00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:28,280 Speaker 1: we think of and just average, you know, the lower 547 00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:31,240 Speaker 1: case a anxiety. So it's good when a bear is 548 00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:34,120 Speaker 1: chasing you, yeah, or a human that wants to kill 549 00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:35,720 Speaker 1: you because you're a rat and you're running away with 550 00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:39,600 Speaker 1: the cheese. I guess it would be more a cat 551 00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:42,760 Speaker 1: than a human. I'm thinking now Tom and Jerry and 552 00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:47,040 Speaker 1: my mind has officially entered tangent land. But Valentino found 553 00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:49,720 Speaker 1: that these female rat brains are a more sensitive to 554 00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:54,120 Speaker 1: it and less, like you said, able to adapt when 555 00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:58,680 Speaker 1: that CRF flooding happened. So it's like we're already prone 556 00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:02,120 Speaker 1: to experience these heightened feelings, and when those heightened feelings happen, 557 00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:06,960 Speaker 1: we're also prone for them to handicap us. Yeah, so 558 00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:10,399 Speaker 1: me getting stressed out about my TAG renewal and then 559 00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:14,400 Speaker 1: once all of those stress hormones just flood my brain, 560 00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:16,319 Speaker 1: I think you need to get that tag renewed as 561 00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:18,440 Speaker 1: soon as we finish this podcast. I think I'm a 562 00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:20,600 Speaker 1: little worried about it. I just need to like grab 563 00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:23,880 Speaker 1: a sandwich and go handle this. A sandwich could make 564 00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:28,080 Speaker 1: the tag office better, I think, yeah, sandwich. And speaking 565 00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:32,680 Speaker 1: of drinking your anxiety way sandwich on a cocktail, I'm 566 00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:35,000 Speaker 1: fun to hang out with the d m V. But 567 00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:39,080 Speaker 1: speaking of these these chemicals in our brain, hormones have 568 00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:44,200 Speaker 1: also been implicated. And my assumption going into this was like, oh, 569 00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:47,600 Speaker 1: of course estrogen is to blame. It's got to be estrogen. 570 00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:53,760 Speaker 1: But estrogen, it turns out, correlates to higher fear extinction capacity. 571 00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:59,840 Speaker 1: What pretty cool estrogen. But early in our menstrual cycles, 572 00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:04,320 Speaker 1: our estrogen is low, we might be more anxiety prone, 573 00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:09,239 Speaker 1: probably because estrogen is lower and progesterone is all like, 574 00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:11,560 Speaker 1: oh hey guys, I'm gonna hang out on your brain 575 00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:14,800 Speaker 1: and making nervous. Yeah. And research has found that women 576 00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:18,200 Speaker 1: on birth control pills when it comes to anxiety, act 577 00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:21,799 Speaker 1: like the women who have naturally low estrogen. And so 578 00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:24,880 Speaker 1: it's important to note that your hormones will likely influence 579 00:35:25,160 --> 00:35:30,120 Speaker 1: how those anti anxiety medications work. And in terms of dudes, 580 00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:36,359 Speaker 1: because anecdotally, dudes also have hormones. The enzyme aromatase converts 581 00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:42,080 Speaker 1: testosterone into estrogen, therefore giving them that same benefit that 582 00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:46,880 Speaker 1: women have when they have higher higher estrogen. Yeah, so 583 00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:52,600 Speaker 1: testosterone definitely buffers against you know that that that fear 584 00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:58,880 Speaker 1: and anxiety as well. And progesterone, though, is the real culprit. 585 00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:01,840 Speaker 1: It seems like hormone only speaking as I just mentioned, 586 00:36:02,080 --> 00:36:06,800 Speaker 1: because high levels of progesterone have been linked to actually 587 00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:13,360 Speaker 1: changing the shape of our brain receptors that manage anxiety, 588 00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:17,840 Speaker 1: and so for that reason, some researchers think that progesterone 589 00:36:18,200 --> 00:36:23,480 Speaker 1: might explain things like prenatal and postpartum anxiety, considering that 590 00:36:23,520 --> 00:36:26,640 Speaker 1: the body produces about a thousand times the normal amount 591 00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:30,080 Speaker 1: of progesterone just in the third trimester of pregnancy, not 592 00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:32,840 Speaker 1: to mention all of the hormonal stuff going on as 593 00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:35,200 Speaker 1: you are and right after you give birth, and so 594 00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:37,600 Speaker 1: it shoots up in the third trimester, and then you're 595 00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:41,720 Speaker 1: back down once the baby pops out. So your hormones 596 00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:44,480 Speaker 1: are doing all sorts of crazy things to you, and 597 00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:48,680 Speaker 1: then you have to breastfeed. But not everyone is convinced 598 00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:53,319 Speaker 1: with this idea that female brains are just wired to 599 00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:57,800 Speaker 1: be anxious. In fact, Taylor Clark wrote a book partially 600 00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:01,440 Speaker 1: about this called Nerve nerv And, and one of the 601 00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:08,280 Speaker 1: excerpts from Nerve Clark attempts to debunk the nature argument 602 00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:13,200 Speaker 1: and really places a lot of the onus on nurture, 603 00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:17,360 Speaker 1: saying that listen, this is all about culture and parenting 604 00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:21,120 Speaker 1: and how we raise girls different from boys. Yeah, so 605 00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:23,319 Speaker 1: he attributes a lot of the gender gap to this thing. 606 00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:27,600 Speaker 1: He calls the skinned knee effect basically coddling girls when 607 00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:31,239 Speaker 1: they are anxious, upset, afraid, hurt, And he says that 608 00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:36,440 Speaker 1: this predisposes them to react to unpleasant situations by being 609 00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:39,400 Speaker 1: more anxious, getting that attention. And I was reading this 610 00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:42,839 Speaker 1: and I was like, oh crap, I am totally like that. 611 00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:45,319 Speaker 1: When I fight with my boyfriend or when just like 612 00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:48,480 Speaker 1: someone disagrees with me or is like disapproving of me 613 00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:52,239 Speaker 1: in some way, I totally get a little too hurt 614 00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:56,760 Speaker 1: and anxious about it. And so the skinned knee effect 615 00:37:57,480 --> 00:38:01,239 Speaker 1: is alive and well in Caroline nervous and you know, 616 00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:03,960 Speaker 1: what are you gonna do? Well? And he calls women 617 00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:09,440 Speaker 1: actually quote needlessly nervous adult, which is hard where I'm 618 00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:11,960 Speaker 1: studying to not take a little personally, I'm like, I know, 619 00:38:12,040 --> 00:38:18,200 Speaker 1: I'm needlessly nervous, but I I and I rationally understand that. 620 00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:23,520 Speaker 1: But turning it off is where I don't necessarily by 621 00:38:23,640 --> 00:38:26,880 Speaker 1: all of the culture explanations. But also people just have 622 00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:31,239 Speaker 1: different brains because to Clark's point, a study found that 623 00:38:31,280 --> 00:38:35,520 Speaker 1: we perceive women to be more anxious and nervously emotional 624 00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:40,239 Speaker 1: than men. I mean, these are just qualities that we 625 00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:43,680 Speaker 1: are likelier to attribute to a group of women versus 626 00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:45,480 Speaker 1: a group of men. And this is also something that 627 00:38:45,560 --> 00:38:49,600 Speaker 1: extends to issues like doctor's reluctance to treat women who 628 00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:52,560 Speaker 1: are in pain reporting pain compared to men, because there's 629 00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:56,280 Speaker 1: an assumption that, oh, well, women are just over dramatizing things. 630 00:38:56,320 --> 00:38:59,680 Speaker 1: She's just very nervous and anxious. Just calm down, just 631 00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:06,279 Speaker 1: for lax, Just relax, honey, all right, I will um. Yeah. 632 00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:09,560 Speaker 1: Speaking of that whole perception thing, Clark talked about how 633 00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:13,640 Speaker 1: we do have a tendency to label women as anxious 634 00:39:13,719 --> 00:39:16,279 Speaker 1: even when they aren't. And there was one study that 635 00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:19,160 Speaker 1: he talked about that said that show that even when 636 00:39:19,560 --> 00:39:22,279 Speaker 1: men and women are experiencing the same levels of an 637 00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:26,839 Speaker 1: emotion of any given emotion, women are seen and see 638 00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:31,680 Speaker 1: themselves as being more emotional. So I mean, I mean, 639 00:39:31,719 --> 00:39:35,800 Speaker 1: there you've got a bias, internal bias and an external 640 00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:39,160 Speaker 1: bias toward women being like the emotional anxious ones. And 641 00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:43,719 Speaker 1: I wonder too, just considering how much more people are 642 00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:47,120 Speaker 1: talking about their anxiety, how much more open women are 643 00:39:47,239 --> 00:39:51,320 Speaker 1: about their patterns of anxiety and their lives, I wonder 644 00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:56,000 Speaker 1: if there is a limit to how much that's healthy 645 00:39:56,040 --> 00:39:59,920 Speaker 1: and how much that is playing into that a little bit, 646 00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:02,799 Speaker 1: almost like creating these self fulfilling prophecies of like, oh, 647 00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:06,080 Speaker 1: I'm just so anxious, I just really really anxious. So 648 00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:08,640 Speaker 1: of course when something happens, it almost gives this permission 649 00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:12,920 Speaker 1: to feel anxious and nervous rather than trying to work 650 00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:16,600 Speaker 1: through that anxiety. This also is is a solely Kristen 651 00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:18,520 Speaker 1: conquer pet theory. Well, I mean, I think that's a 652 00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:21,800 Speaker 1: that's a good point. I mean, I know that, um, 653 00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:25,680 Speaker 1: when I start to experience like this physical anxiety, the 654 00:40:25,680 --> 00:40:29,040 Speaker 1: debilitating physical anxiety feelings, you know, my boyfriend trised to 655 00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:31,080 Speaker 1: talk me down and he's like, the listen, the more 656 00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:32,919 Speaker 1: you focus on the fact that you feel like something 657 00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:34,920 Speaker 1: sitting on your chest, like the worst it's going to 658 00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:37,120 Speaker 1: be like, we've got to distract you. You know. My 659 00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:39,520 Speaker 1: therapist has told me, like to start looking around the 660 00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:41,640 Speaker 1: room and play a game of I Spy with myself 661 00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:44,640 Speaker 1: basically like just does not sound fun. I know, I 662 00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:48,040 Speaker 1: spy something gray. It's Kristen's shirt. Crap. I knew the 663 00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:53,280 Speaker 1: answer already. Um. But I also think that talking about 664 00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:55,760 Speaker 1: it helps. I know, like when you and I discuss 665 00:40:55,800 --> 00:40:59,319 Speaker 1: our anxiety, it actually kind of almost reduces mine. Not 666 00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:01,400 Speaker 1: because I'm like ha ha, she has it too, but 667 00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:04,880 Speaker 1: because it's like, oh, well, this is normal. Other people 668 00:41:04,920 --> 00:41:08,560 Speaker 1: struggle with this, and it sort of helps reduce anecdotally 669 00:41:08,560 --> 00:41:12,719 Speaker 1: in Christian and Caroline universe, helps reduce my feelings of 670 00:41:13,200 --> 00:41:17,480 Speaker 1: I am so weird and not special, but like I 671 00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:20,560 Speaker 1: I struggle with something that somebody else might not understand. 672 00:41:21,239 --> 00:41:23,920 Speaker 1: And then again there's the whole thing of like with 673 00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:26,880 Speaker 1: a lot of other conditions, not just anxiety. The more 674 00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:29,319 Speaker 1: we talk about it and understand it, the more it's 675 00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:33,840 Speaker 1: inevitably going to be diagnosed in people, because diagnostic techniques 676 00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:36,080 Speaker 1: are going to be better and more people who are 677 00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:39,080 Speaker 1: educated about it or suspect they might struggle with it, 678 00:41:39,120 --> 00:41:41,480 Speaker 1: whatever that condition may be, will end up going to 679 00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:43,960 Speaker 1: the doctor and saying please help me. Yeah. I think 680 00:41:43,960 --> 00:41:47,279 Speaker 1: that that is absolutely a healthy side of talking about it. 681 00:41:47,320 --> 00:41:50,759 Speaker 1: I similarly feel less crazy when I talk about it 682 00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:53,400 Speaker 1: with you, because it's like, oh, here is a smart, 683 00:41:53,920 --> 00:42:00,360 Speaker 1: cool lady who also experiences similar patterns of irrational worry. Totally, 684 00:42:00,400 --> 00:42:04,680 Speaker 1: it's gonna be okay. And that impact of the stigmatizing 685 00:42:05,080 --> 00:42:09,359 Speaker 1: anxiety is so important because while yes, it's so often 686 00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:12,839 Speaker 1: framed as a woman's issue, I know there are so 687 00:42:12,880 --> 00:42:16,279 Speaker 1: many guys out there who because of how anxiety has 688 00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:18,160 Speaker 1: talked about, how it is considered kind of a weak 689 00:42:18,239 --> 00:42:20,359 Speaker 1: sort of thing, how it is something that's really more 690 00:42:20,400 --> 00:42:22,719 Speaker 1: acceptable for women to go to a therapist and get 691 00:42:22,719 --> 00:42:25,680 Speaker 1: help for versus men, and they're not getting the help 692 00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:28,560 Speaker 1: that they really do need, you know, and and that 693 00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:33,000 Speaker 1: impacts your quality of life. Um so what do we 694 00:42:33,080 --> 00:42:39,560 Speaker 1: do though about this? Well, start exercising, like right right now, 695 00:42:39,880 --> 00:42:42,160 Speaker 1: right now. And it's funny because this is something that 696 00:42:42,200 --> 00:42:45,799 Speaker 1: of course we all know right anecdotally and surface level, 697 00:42:45,840 --> 00:42:48,279 Speaker 1: we all know that a we should exercise because will 698 00:42:48,280 --> 00:42:51,359 Speaker 1: be healthier, it will improve bone strength, heart health, all 699 00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:54,480 Speaker 1: of that good stuff. And yes, we even anecdotally know 700 00:42:54,640 --> 00:42:57,080 Speaker 1: that exercise is best to help with anxiety. It blows 701 00:42:57,080 --> 00:42:59,960 Speaker 1: off steave. But but why, Like, what is the steve 702 00:43:00,239 --> 00:43:03,040 Speaker 1: blowing off nous? There's actual science behind that which I 703 00:43:03,080 --> 00:43:07,120 Speaker 1: didn't realize, and it's that it almost helps train your 704 00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:14,440 Speaker 1: body to recognize those physical anxiety symptoms the pounding heart, 705 00:43:14,640 --> 00:43:18,960 Speaker 1: the chest pressure, the sweating and nervousness and breathlessness as 706 00:43:19,040 --> 00:43:21,400 Speaker 1: just like a normal like, oh, we were just jogging. 707 00:43:21,960 --> 00:43:23,960 Speaker 1: We're just jogging and at the end of this, we're 708 00:43:23,960 --> 00:43:27,360 Speaker 1: going to have a kalem me crazy smoothie Kristen, Okay, 709 00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:30,400 Speaker 1: and we're gonna feel so much better. And so it 710 00:43:30,480 --> 00:43:36,960 Speaker 1: really is like kind of a tricking of your physical being. Yes, Caroline, 711 00:43:37,000 --> 00:43:43,319 Speaker 1: I can personally attest to the life changing importance of exercise. 712 00:43:43,520 --> 00:43:46,760 Speaker 1: I've always been a bit of an exerciser, but once 713 00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:50,800 Speaker 1: I in the past like five years, once I really 714 00:43:50,800 --> 00:43:57,279 Speaker 1: started ingraining it into my routine of biking, running, yoga, Like, 715 00:43:58,280 --> 00:44:02,520 Speaker 1: it is so different, how ideal When I can feel 716 00:44:02,560 --> 00:44:05,359 Speaker 1: the anxiety coming on, if I'm able to go exercise, 717 00:44:06,120 --> 00:44:09,040 Speaker 1: it's such a different outcome than what I used to 718 00:44:09,080 --> 00:44:11,040 Speaker 1: do of like, well, I'm just gonna have a glass 719 00:44:11,040 --> 00:44:13,480 Speaker 1: of wine and I'll still have that glass of wine, 720 00:44:14,080 --> 00:44:18,319 Speaker 1: but that not being the go to, like alcohol is 721 00:44:18,400 --> 00:44:21,920 Speaker 1: not a great is really not a cure for that. 722 00:44:21,960 --> 00:44:25,719 Speaker 1: It might dull it for a moment, but exercise is 723 00:44:26,840 --> 00:44:28,920 Speaker 1: such a good thing that you can do for your body. 724 00:44:29,080 --> 00:44:31,239 Speaker 1: Well yeah, and beyond getting your heart rate up, it's 725 00:44:31,280 --> 00:44:34,360 Speaker 1: also and I mean, I know that the snarky side 726 00:44:34,360 --> 00:44:36,680 Speaker 1: of me wants to say that this is not true, 727 00:44:36,719 --> 00:44:40,720 Speaker 1: but um, it's almost a type of meditation. Like literally, 728 00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:43,440 Speaker 1: maybe you are doing yoga and you're meditating as part 729 00:44:43,520 --> 00:44:46,560 Speaker 1: of that, but I mean getting into the groove of 730 00:44:46,719 --> 00:44:49,920 Speaker 1: jogging and you're literally just thinking about taking the next step, 731 00:44:50,239 --> 00:44:53,279 Speaker 1: taking the next breath. It does sort of take you 732 00:44:53,400 --> 00:44:58,359 Speaker 1: out of that anxiety spiral about renewing your tag. One 733 00:44:58,360 --> 00:45:00,840 Speaker 1: thing that doesn't help, though, which I am loath to 734 00:45:00,880 --> 00:45:04,680 Speaker 1: give up, it's caffeine. All all the kind of lifestyle 735 00:45:04,719 --> 00:45:06,920 Speaker 1: tips that you will read about anxiety is give up 736 00:45:06,920 --> 00:45:11,000 Speaker 1: the caffeine. I like, but no, no, no, I So 737 00:45:11,280 --> 00:45:13,759 Speaker 1: here I am. I'm gonna I'm telling you listeners that 738 00:45:13,880 --> 00:45:15,839 Speaker 1: other people say that this is good, and I'm sure 739 00:45:15,880 --> 00:45:19,000 Speaker 1: that it is good. But I love coffee. There I 740 00:45:19,080 --> 00:45:22,839 Speaker 1: said it. I love it too. We are Garfield. Wait 741 00:45:22,840 --> 00:45:24,960 Speaker 1: now Garfields las On. Yeah, well we're Garfield too, but 742 00:45:25,000 --> 00:45:27,920 Speaker 1: we're Kathy. Is Kathy a coffee person? I feel like 743 00:45:27,920 --> 00:45:32,280 Speaker 1: she drank coffee. We're every stereotypical cartoon We are Nancy Botwin. 744 00:45:32,600 --> 00:45:36,360 Speaker 1: She always had coffee. Yes, and perfect segue to weed. 745 00:45:37,200 --> 00:45:42,560 Speaker 1: Nancy Botwin, the leading character of the Genie Cohen show Weeds. UM. 746 00:45:42,960 --> 00:45:45,920 Speaker 1: One thing I wanted to look in was whether or 747 00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:50,279 Speaker 1: not smoking pot is good for anxiety a because pot 748 00:45:50,360 --> 00:45:52,799 Speaker 1: is becoming more legalized, more women are smoking pot than 749 00:45:52,840 --> 00:45:55,799 Speaker 1: ever before. UM, women are getting into the weed industry. 750 00:45:55,920 --> 00:46:00,920 Speaker 1: There's a whole marijuana renaissance a foot, especially for women. 751 00:46:01,239 --> 00:46:03,839 Speaker 1: And one of the things that has often talked about 752 00:46:03,840 --> 00:46:08,960 Speaker 1: in terms of UM why marijuana should be legalized. The 753 00:46:09,040 --> 00:46:12,279 Speaker 1: way people get prescriptions for medical marijuana is that, oh, 754 00:46:12,320 --> 00:46:17,680 Speaker 1: it helps my anxiety, and you have a skeptical look 755 00:46:17,719 --> 00:46:21,640 Speaker 1: on your face a little bit. Well, yeah, just because 756 00:46:21,800 --> 00:46:25,840 Speaker 1: I was remembering this guy that I dated who was 757 00:46:25,880 --> 00:46:27,759 Speaker 1: a jerk. And he wasn't a jerk because of this, 758 00:46:27,840 --> 00:46:30,160 Speaker 1: but he was just a jerk. But I remember that 759 00:46:30,840 --> 00:46:33,799 Speaker 1: he was constantly one of those unhelpful people that all 760 00:46:33,880 --> 00:46:36,279 Speaker 1: anxious people are familiar with. In their lives. He's just like, 761 00:46:36,280 --> 00:46:39,840 Speaker 1: would you just relax? Would you just chill out? Like, 762 00:46:39,960 --> 00:46:41,600 Speaker 1: I mean, I don't care who you are. Like that 763 00:46:41,680 --> 00:46:44,680 Speaker 1: gets real old hearing that. But his go to thing 764 00:46:44,719 --> 00:46:46,960 Speaker 1: was always like, we just need to give you some weed. 765 00:46:47,239 --> 00:46:49,520 Speaker 1: We just need to get you some weeds. You'll relax well. 766 00:46:49,520 --> 00:46:51,400 Speaker 1: And that's why I was curious to look at the 767 00:46:51,440 --> 00:46:56,760 Speaker 1: research on it, because paranoia is often a side effect 768 00:46:56,800 --> 00:46:59,680 Speaker 1: for many people if they smoke pot. Not that I've 769 00:46:59,719 --> 00:47:05,400 Speaker 1: ever ever, never done that, um and studies do find 770 00:47:05,960 --> 00:47:10,680 Speaker 1: mixed results. So if you have a panic disorder, research 771 00:47:10,800 --> 00:47:19,799 Speaker 1: suggests weed will probably amplify that. But Vanderbilt study located 772 00:47:19,840 --> 00:47:23,239 Speaker 1: a cannon annoyed receptor in our a magdala, which is 773 00:47:23,280 --> 00:47:25,960 Speaker 1: sort of that the emotional seat of the brain, and 774 00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:29,520 Speaker 1: they think that it might be linked to anecdotal reports 775 00:47:29,560 --> 00:47:33,720 Speaker 1: of weed chilling us out. If we're really anxious, then 776 00:47:35,040 --> 00:47:38,520 Speaker 1: perhaps smoking pot can be a temporary fix. Now, I 777 00:47:38,520 --> 00:47:40,480 Speaker 1: will go on the record as saying I don't think 778 00:47:40,520 --> 00:47:45,440 Speaker 1: that there should be any substance, whether it's marijuana or 779 00:47:45,600 --> 00:47:48,200 Speaker 1: wine or chocolate, you know, anything like that that's going 780 00:47:48,239 --> 00:47:51,319 Speaker 1: to cure your anxiety. It needs to be part of 781 00:47:51,560 --> 00:47:54,759 Speaker 1: a whole lifestyle kind of thing. But I think it's 782 00:47:54,800 --> 00:47:58,280 Speaker 1: interesting to see how there is science is looking into 783 00:47:59,080 --> 00:48:06,000 Speaker 1: how pot can interact with our anxious or depressive symptoms. 784 00:48:06,400 --> 00:48:09,160 Speaker 1: So are you telling me that even my cannabinoid receptors 785 00:48:09,160 --> 00:48:13,839 Speaker 1: are anxious possibly, or maybe they're just judging because they're 786 00:48:13,840 --> 00:48:17,759 Speaker 1: not receptive. Well, I mean it could also it could 787 00:48:17,800 --> 00:48:20,440 Speaker 1: also shift depending on the kind of strain of marijuana 788 00:48:20,520 --> 00:48:22,520 Speaker 1: that you're smoking. Yeah, but we're now just getting into 789 00:48:22,520 --> 00:48:25,480 Speaker 1: a whole other podcast. Yeah, well, we'll hotcast wait for 790 00:48:25,640 --> 00:48:28,640 Speaker 1: letters from people from listeners to tell us about that. Yeah, 791 00:48:28,719 --> 00:48:30,960 Speaker 1: I do. I would love to hear letters from listeners. 792 00:48:30,960 --> 00:48:32,759 Speaker 1: I know we've got a lot of letters out on 793 00:48:32,800 --> 00:48:34,960 Speaker 1: the West Coast, and we even have some weed farmers 794 00:48:34,960 --> 00:48:37,200 Speaker 1: who listen, so let us know. Yeah, let us know 795 00:48:38,040 --> 00:48:41,080 Speaker 1: another thing, So similarly to what I was saying about exercise, 796 00:48:41,120 --> 00:48:43,120 Speaker 1: of like, yes, we all know that it's good for 797 00:48:43,160 --> 00:48:45,439 Speaker 1: you and you need to do it for general health, 798 00:48:45,480 --> 00:48:48,399 Speaker 1: but also dealing with anxiety, it's the same thing with 799 00:48:48,960 --> 00:48:51,560 Speaker 1: diet and Kristen, this is something I had never heard 800 00:48:51,600 --> 00:48:54,000 Speaker 1: before in terms of shifting your diet in order to 801 00:48:54,120 --> 00:48:57,080 Speaker 1: deal with anxiety. Well, yeah, because think about it, like 802 00:48:57,440 --> 00:48:59,200 Speaker 1: I don't know if you ever have weeks like this, Caroline, 803 00:48:59,200 --> 00:49:01,800 Speaker 1: where you have no time and you're just eating out 804 00:49:01,840 --> 00:49:05,239 Speaker 1: and maybe you had cheese, it's and diet coke for 805 00:49:05,320 --> 00:49:10,320 Speaker 1: lunch yesterday. Oh wait no, that was me and that's disgusting. Um. 806 00:49:10,320 --> 00:49:15,239 Speaker 1: And it will impact how you feel it can. Food 807 00:49:15,280 --> 00:49:19,360 Speaker 1: definitely impacts our moods, and so a really good article 808 00:49:19,520 --> 00:49:23,520 Speaker 1: on women in anxiety in Glamour magazine cited an Australian 809 00:49:23,520 --> 00:49:26,839 Speaker 1: study which found that women on whole foods diets that's 810 00:49:27,040 --> 00:49:32,040 Speaker 1: lowercase whole foods, not the store, but things like fruits, veggies, 811 00:49:32,040 --> 00:49:36,200 Speaker 1: whole grains, lean meats and fish were less likely to 812 00:49:36,239 --> 00:49:40,239 Speaker 1: experience anxiety, whereas women on high fat and processed food 813 00:49:40,280 --> 00:49:45,080 Speaker 1: diets were more prone to depression. That's that's do you 814 00:49:45,120 --> 00:49:47,880 Speaker 1: hear that? So it's not on my mind being blown 815 00:49:47,960 --> 00:49:51,040 Speaker 1: not only by those facts about eating better or whatever, 816 00:49:51,080 --> 00:49:54,160 Speaker 1: but like the persons, that's crazy. My boyfriend and I 817 00:49:54,160 --> 00:49:56,640 Speaker 1: talk all the time. So we're doing the Blue Apron 818 00:49:56,840 --> 00:49:59,239 Speaker 1: meal delivery service thing, which is great, which you should 819 00:49:59,280 --> 00:50:01,440 Speaker 1: go to blue ap and dot com slash mom stuff. Right, 820 00:50:01,480 --> 00:50:04,080 Speaker 1: let's nurs true to get your Blue Apron deal. But 821 00:50:04,239 --> 00:50:06,600 Speaker 1: we've really been enjoying it because it's really healthy food. 822 00:50:06,600 --> 00:50:08,839 Speaker 1: It's easy to cook all that good stuff. But when 823 00:50:08,840 --> 00:50:10,960 Speaker 1: we're not doing that, we do have a tendency to 824 00:50:11,000 --> 00:50:13,960 Speaker 1: eat out and we try not to do the pad 825 00:50:14,040 --> 00:50:17,359 Speaker 1: tie all the time. But we've been talking in that 826 00:50:17,400 --> 00:50:19,200 Speaker 1: way that you do when you're trying to do something 827 00:50:19,200 --> 00:50:21,320 Speaker 1: healthy but you don't have the time or the desire 828 00:50:21,360 --> 00:50:22,880 Speaker 1: to get around to it, where we're like, you know, 829 00:50:22,920 --> 00:50:25,600 Speaker 1: we really should go back to eating like fish and 830 00:50:25,680 --> 00:50:30,680 Speaker 1: asparagus all the time. Are we really should? Because we 831 00:50:30,800 --> 00:50:34,160 Speaker 1: both struggle with anxiety. Well, Caroline, I did not run 832 00:50:34,200 --> 00:50:40,160 Speaker 1: across any studies on correlations between asparagus consumption and anxiety, 833 00:50:40,680 --> 00:50:42,799 Speaker 1: but you can give it a shot. I will. I 834 00:50:42,800 --> 00:50:46,360 Speaker 1: will report back on things besides how my pea smells 835 00:50:46,400 --> 00:50:50,480 Speaker 1: after I eat asparagus. Thank you. And another thing that's 836 00:50:50,480 --> 00:50:53,560 Speaker 1: important to keep in mind as you might be integrating 837 00:50:53,600 --> 00:51:01,800 Speaker 1: more exercise, healthier diet, yoga, weed brownies into your lifestyle 838 00:51:02,120 --> 00:51:06,960 Speaker 1: is really learning your anxiety triggers and planning accordingly. That 839 00:51:07,120 --> 00:51:11,400 Speaker 1: is one thing that my therapist is pretty adamant about, 840 00:51:11,719 --> 00:51:15,120 Speaker 1: is having a plan if there are situations where I 841 00:51:15,160 --> 00:51:18,239 Speaker 1: know that certain things tend to happen and have a plan, 842 00:51:18,640 --> 00:51:21,439 Speaker 1: and that can be very helpful. That's your plan, stop 843 00:51:21,520 --> 00:51:24,960 Speaker 1: dropping roll Yes, okay, because I'm always terrified that everything 844 00:51:25,000 --> 00:51:28,080 Speaker 1: is just going to burst into flames. But also too, 845 00:51:28,200 --> 00:51:31,800 Speaker 1: you have to give these management techniques a genuine chance 846 00:51:32,400 --> 00:51:35,560 Speaker 1: of working. If you go to yoga twice and you're like, oh, 847 00:51:35,600 --> 00:51:38,960 Speaker 1: I'm still feel awful, yeah, of course you do. You know, 848 00:51:39,200 --> 00:51:42,480 Speaker 1: like you you usually need at least two months sticking 849 00:51:42,480 --> 00:51:45,000 Speaker 1: with these kinds of things to really start feeling a difference. 850 00:51:45,920 --> 00:51:47,759 Speaker 1: And that is the challenge of a lot of this 851 00:51:47,880 --> 00:51:50,879 Speaker 1: mental health stuff is that it is an everyday process 852 00:51:51,480 --> 00:51:55,040 Speaker 1: and there's no quick fix, and you have to be 853 00:51:55,080 --> 00:52:00,399 Speaker 1: compassionate with yourself and patient with yourself and give your 854 00:52:01,000 --> 00:52:06,080 Speaker 1: self time. Yeah exactly, Yeah, be practice self compassion. And 855 00:52:06,120 --> 00:52:09,440 Speaker 1: also in terms of like when I feel anxiety come on, 856 00:52:09,520 --> 00:52:11,520 Speaker 1: it's a good time to go for a jog. Also, 857 00:52:11,600 --> 00:52:15,520 Speaker 1: my therapist recommended when I do feel like when I 858 00:52:15,560 --> 00:52:18,320 Speaker 1: get the type of anxiety that's totally out of proportion 859 00:52:18,360 --> 00:52:20,200 Speaker 1: to what's going on, Like I literally feel like I'm 860 00:52:20,200 --> 00:52:22,680 Speaker 1: about to be chased by a lion or something, She's like, 861 00:52:22,719 --> 00:52:25,520 Speaker 1: just drop and give yourself twenty and I was what 862 00:52:26,120 --> 00:52:28,920 Speaker 1: she literally said. Your fight or flights kicking in, So 863 00:52:29,040 --> 00:52:31,160 Speaker 1: give it something to fight with and do push ups. 864 00:52:33,000 --> 00:52:35,160 Speaker 1: It helps a little. I have been known to, like, 865 00:52:35,320 --> 00:52:37,240 Speaker 1: if I'm at home and I start to feel anxious, 866 00:52:37,280 --> 00:52:38,920 Speaker 1: I have been known to drop down and start doing 867 00:52:38,920 --> 00:52:40,440 Speaker 1: push up yeah, and it kind of gets some of 868 00:52:40,480 --> 00:52:42,920 Speaker 1: that energy out. Well, yeah, because then by then I'm like, 869 00:52:42,920 --> 00:52:44,920 Speaker 1: oh my god, I'm so distracted by how I can't 870 00:52:44,960 --> 00:52:47,799 Speaker 1: push my body off the floor that it just turns 871 00:52:47,800 --> 00:52:50,960 Speaker 1: into embarrassment and then like, hmm, it's time for a snack. 872 00:52:51,160 --> 00:52:57,560 Speaker 1: It's for asparagus snack. Yeah. Well, listeners, I hope this 873 00:52:57,600 --> 00:53:03,640 Speaker 1: has been comforting and maybe enlightening for you. I'm I'm 874 00:53:03,640 --> 00:53:06,000 Speaker 1: really curious to hear from you. I'm sure that there 875 00:53:06,000 --> 00:53:10,759 Speaker 1: are people listening who have very similar mental patterns that 876 00:53:10,840 --> 00:53:13,200 Speaker 1: you deal with on a daily basis. And I think 877 00:53:13,200 --> 00:53:16,200 Speaker 1: it's also helpful for people who don't have anxiety but 878 00:53:16,360 --> 00:53:19,719 Speaker 1: no people with anxiety in your life to hear this 879 00:53:20,400 --> 00:53:26,040 Speaker 1: as well, because it's so irrational and we should be 880 00:53:26,080 --> 00:53:29,160 Speaker 1: able to relax and just chill out. Stop telling us 881 00:53:29,160 --> 00:53:31,880 Speaker 1: to relax, but it's but it's hard to and I 882 00:53:31,880 --> 00:53:36,000 Speaker 1: think it's it's really um, it's worthwhile to take a 883 00:53:36,000 --> 00:53:43,120 Speaker 1: moment and understand why just relaxing is sometimes sometimes feels impossible. 884 00:53:43,120 --> 00:53:44,440 Speaker 1: I don't want to say it is impossible, but it 885 00:53:44,480 --> 00:53:48,800 Speaker 1: feels impossible. It does just more asparagus, more asparagus. Please, 886 00:53:49,520 --> 00:53:52,080 Speaker 1: So with that, mom Stuff at how Stuff Works dot 887 00:53:52,080 --> 00:53:55,800 Speaker 1: com is our email address because we'd love to get 888 00:53:55,880 --> 00:53:58,960 Speaker 1: your letters. We want to know what kinds of things 889 00:53:59,360 --> 00:54:03,240 Speaker 1: you've experience alliance in regard to anxiety, and any additional 890 00:54:03,320 --> 00:54:05,680 Speaker 1: tips that you have for managing it. Let us know. 891 00:54:05,800 --> 00:54:07,640 Speaker 1: Mom's have a House of Works dot com. Again is 892 00:54:07,680 --> 00:54:10,120 Speaker 1: our email address. You can also tweet us at Mom's 893 00:54:10,160 --> 00:54:13,200 Speaker 1: of podcast or message us on Facebook and we've got 894 00:54:13,200 --> 00:54:16,160 Speaker 1: a couple of messages to share with you right now. 895 00:54:19,719 --> 00:54:23,120 Speaker 1: And both of these letters, Caroline are from our Couple 896 00:54:23,160 --> 00:54:27,680 Speaker 1: Speak episode because it was adorable and people had so 897 00:54:27,719 --> 00:54:30,839 Speaker 1: many letters to send us, and Page wrote, I'm a 898 00:54:30,880 --> 00:54:33,040 Speaker 1: longtime fan of your show and was listening to Couple 899 00:54:33,120 --> 00:54:36,080 Speaker 1: Speak and wanted to write in regard to my different 900 00:54:36,080 --> 00:54:38,799 Speaker 1: experiences with it. I've been dating my boyfriend for close 901 00:54:38,840 --> 00:54:40,880 Speaker 1: to two years now, and while we usually refer to 902 00:54:40,960 --> 00:54:43,480 Speaker 1: each other as baby or babe, we have a couple 903 00:54:43,520 --> 00:54:46,400 Speaker 1: other names. One of them actually came from a typo 904 00:54:46,480 --> 00:54:48,719 Speaker 1: I made. I was texting him and went to call 905 00:54:48,800 --> 00:54:52,959 Speaker 1: him baby and managed to type Babu instead. He thought 906 00:54:52,960 --> 00:54:56,120 Speaker 1: it was hilarious. And now when we're feeling goofy, we 907 00:54:56,160 --> 00:54:59,239 Speaker 1: refer to each other as babo. We also call each 908 00:54:59,280 --> 00:55:02,120 Speaker 1: other bad and I call him my night and rusted 909 00:55:02,200 --> 00:55:04,719 Speaker 1: armor because rusted armor shows that a night has been 910 00:55:04,719 --> 00:55:07,439 Speaker 1: in battle and is willing to fight. Thanks for having 911 00:55:07,440 --> 00:55:09,880 Speaker 1: such an entertaining show, you ladies make the workday go 912 00:55:09,960 --> 00:55:13,360 Speaker 1: buy so much faster. That just makes me think of 913 00:55:13,360 --> 00:55:16,920 Speaker 1: Babar the elephant. Uh huh yeah, And I might be 914 00:55:16,960 --> 00:55:22,399 Speaker 1: mispronouncing it. Perhaps it's baboo or baboo. I like baboo, 915 00:55:22,640 --> 00:55:26,080 Speaker 1: and our intrepid producer just informed us that baboo is 916 00:55:26,080 --> 00:55:29,560 Speaker 1: a Charlie Brown reference. I knew it sounded familiar, but 917 00:55:29,760 --> 00:55:33,120 Speaker 1: I just thought it was because of Fabar, baboo, baboo, 918 00:55:33,760 --> 00:55:37,520 Speaker 1: Charlie Brown. Football's Well, I have a letter here from 919 00:55:37,520 --> 00:55:41,319 Speaker 1: Cliff uh and I love it. Uh. Cliff said, I 920 00:55:41,440 --> 00:55:44,240 Speaker 1: enjoyed listening to your podcast about couple speak. My wife 921 00:55:44,239 --> 00:55:47,320 Speaker 1: and I do have pet names. I am the rooster 922 00:55:47,800 --> 00:55:49,840 Speaker 1: and she is the chicken. Is I am the rooster. 923 00:55:49,920 --> 00:55:52,919 Speaker 1: I knows I'm the Walruss. Okay, uh, he said. It's 924 00:55:52,920 --> 00:55:55,400 Speaker 1: started after we heard a funny commercial about egg white, 925 00:55:55,880 --> 00:55:57,879 Speaker 1: the chicken and the stories and group in a group 926 00:55:57,920 --> 00:56:01,200 Speaker 1: therapy session, explaining that her eggs have changed. At the end, 927 00:56:01,280 --> 00:56:04,960 Speaker 1: she says, I'm gonna be okay because I'm a good chicken. Well, 928 00:56:04,960 --> 00:56:07,640 Speaker 1: the joke took, and from there on, when things get rough, 929 00:56:07,680 --> 00:56:10,080 Speaker 1: she states she is going to be okay because she's 930 00:56:10,080 --> 00:56:13,320 Speaker 1: a good chicken. Naturally, we started calling each other chicken 931 00:56:13,480 --> 00:56:17,000 Speaker 1: and rooster. Actually I call her my pretty little chicken. 932 00:56:17,560 --> 00:56:20,120 Speaker 1: Enjoy your perspective on various topics. Keep up the great 933 00:56:20,160 --> 00:56:23,720 Speaker 1: work and keep listening. Cliff, thank you and thanks everybody 934 00:56:23,760 --> 00:56:26,319 Speaker 1: who's written into us. Mom Stuff at how stuff works 935 00:56:26,320 --> 00:56:29,239 Speaker 1: dot com is our email address and for links to 936 00:56:29,239 --> 00:56:31,160 Speaker 1: all of our social media as well as all of 937 00:56:31,160 --> 00:56:34,880 Speaker 1: our blogs, videos, and podcasts, including this one. With links 938 00:56:34,880 --> 00:56:37,239 Speaker 1: to all of our sources. So you can learn more 939 00:56:37,320 --> 00:56:41,600 Speaker 1: about anxiety, head on over to stuff Mom Never Told 940 00:56:41,640 --> 00:56:47,960 Speaker 1: You dot com for more on this and thousands of 941 00:56:47,960 --> 00:56:58,200 Speaker 1: other topics. Because it how stuff works dot com