WEBVTT - #62 Stefano 0:00:15.210 --> 0:00:28.970 Pushkin, Karen, I'm I'm sorry to be intruding like this, 0:00:29.090 --> 0:00:31.890 you know, just calling up at it O. 0:00:32.090 --> 0:00:35.089 Hi, oh hi, sorry, my mom called on. 0:00:36.330 --> 0:00:38.930 So then you just you just drop whoever you're talking to. 0:00:39.370 --> 0:00:40.330 That's the kind of daughter. 0:00:40.409 --> 0:00:41.369 I am not. 0:00:41.409 --> 0:00:51.010 Very professional, but okay, yes, it actually is. Well, because 0:00:51.010 --> 0:00:53.050 you know you're a you're a dear friend of Jackie. 0:00:53.170 --> 0:00:55.130 So I thought maybe you know, I would turn to 0:00:55.170 --> 0:00:58.729 you with my concern. I I've been trying to call 0:00:58.810 --> 0:01:01.850 Jackie and she doesn't seem to be accepting my phone calls. 0:01:03.770 --> 0:01:08.130 Yeah, I know, I could confirm that she's okay, okay, 0:01:08.130 --> 0:01:11.210 Oh that's good, thankful, Oh, thank god. Yeah, I could 0:01:11.250 --> 0:01:18.450 confirm that, and I can confirm that she's annoyed by 0:01:18.530 --> 0:01:24.209 your persistence that I could confirm, okay, And I don't know. 0:01:24.370 --> 0:01:26.930 I don't know what to tell you. Maybe she just 0:01:27.050 --> 0:01:32.850 feels that you're using her, well, I am, well, maybe 0:01:32.890 --> 0:01:33.650 she doesn't like. 0:01:33.650 --> 0:01:35.770 That, yeah, because she wants to be the user. 0:01:35.930 --> 0:01:38.810 Right, that's an excellent point you've got there. 0:01:39.890 --> 0:01:44.090 Okay, Jackie, if you're out there listening, which let's face it, 0:01:44.090 --> 0:01:48.610 you're probably not. If I am using you, it's on 0:01:48.690 --> 0:02:01.010 behalf of America in Canada, of course, from Pushkin Industries. 0:02:01.370 --> 0:02:08.330 I'm Jonathan Goldstein and this is Heavyweight Today's episode. Stephano 0:02:13.490 --> 0:02:25.090 right after the break. It's impossible to talk to Debbie 0:02:25.290 --> 0:02:29.930 without hearing stories about her mom, Anita. Anita was Italian, 0:02:30.290 --> 0:02:34.530 and in every story it's her autemismo for roach or 0:02:34.730 --> 0:02:37.650 fierce optimism that takes center stage. 0:02:38.050 --> 0:02:42.610 Truly, for her, the glass was beyond half full. It 0:02:42.650 --> 0:02:44.690 was always full, even if there was a drop of 0:02:44.690 --> 0:02:47.090 water in there, Jonathan, it was just always full. 0:02:47.770 --> 0:02:51.010 As an example, Debbie tells the story of how Anita 0:02:51.090 --> 0:02:54.370 comforted some cousins who were concerned their child was crying 0:02:54.410 --> 0:02:54.890 too much. 0:02:55.210 --> 0:02:57.810 And my mom said, no, you don't have to worry. 0:02:57.970 --> 0:03:00.770 She's like me. I was like that for years. I 0:03:00.890 --> 0:03:04.490 was always crying very easily. My mom was around seventy 0:03:04.490 --> 0:03:06.170 eight years old at the time. And they said, did 0:03:06.210 --> 0:03:08.130 you grow out of it? And my mom goes, yeah, 0:03:08.170 --> 0:03:11.410 and they said when and she said about two years ago, 0:03:11.650 --> 0:03:15.010 So you know, they had something to hope for. 0:03:16.010 --> 0:03:18.850 Anita died in twenty twenty, and her death was hard 0:03:18.850 --> 0:03:22.010 on Debbi. She misses her mom a lot and thinks 0:03:22.050 --> 0:03:25.290 about her a lot, and perhaps because of this, she 0:03:25.370 --> 0:03:28.650 finds herself returning to the one Anita story that has 0:03:28.730 --> 0:03:32.170 yet to find its happy ending, and that is the 0:03:32.210 --> 0:03:40.930 story of the airplane and the baby. Anita grew up 0:03:40.930 --> 0:03:43.810 in a part of Italy called Eastria, and after World 0:03:43.850 --> 0:03:48.050 War Two the region was seated to Yugoslavia. Suddenly, her 0:03:48.090 --> 0:03:52.010 family was under oppressive socialist rule. So Anita and her 0:03:52.010 --> 0:03:55.490 brother hatched an escape plan. They double layered their clothing, 0:03:55.810 --> 0:03:59.010 borrowed a motor boat, and sailed into the Adriatic Sea. 0:03:59.690 --> 0:04:01.810 Anita could easily have drowned. 0:04:01.770 --> 0:04:04.770 But my mom said, you know, you're young, and you 0:04:04.770 --> 0:04:06.530 don't think about that kind of stuff. You just think 0:04:06.570 --> 0:04:08.010 about freedom. 0:04:09.130 --> 0:04:11.410 And her brother made it to Italy, where the police 0:04:11.410 --> 0:04:14.290 took them to a refugee camp. In the coming years, 0:04:14.410 --> 0:04:16.529 Anita would live in several such camps. 0:04:16.810 --> 0:04:19.010 When I would talk to her other friends about it, 0:04:19.130 --> 0:04:21.770 her friends would say, oh, it was hard, you know 0:04:21.849 --> 0:04:24.690 it was. The food wasn't good most of the time, 0:04:24.810 --> 0:04:28.489 and we didn't have money. But you would never have 0:04:28.570 --> 0:04:32.770 known that. Talking to her, she was just eternally optimistic. 0:04:33.330 --> 0:04:36.089 She said, it was wonderful. They opened the doors and 0:04:36.169 --> 0:04:38.489 I saw so many people that I knew. There we'd 0:04:38.529 --> 0:04:41.289 play cards, and we'd drink, and you know, the girls 0:04:41.330 --> 0:04:43.849 would do each other's hair and just had fun. 0:04:45.810 --> 0:04:48.650 In nineteen fifty nine, Anita got her chance to leave 0:04:48.690 --> 0:04:52.169 the camps a visa to the United States, and so 0:04:52.650 --> 0:04:55.130 all alone, Anita set out to America. 0:04:55.729 --> 0:04:58.130 So she was getting ready to get on the flight 0:04:58.369 --> 0:05:02.809 from Rome to New York. And there was an adoption 0:05:03.010 --> 0:05:08.810 agency that were taking children from orphanages from Italy to 0:05:08.849 --> 0:05:11.969 the United States. And they asked my mom if she 0:05:12.010 --> 0:05:15.089 would babysit this little boy, this little two year old boy, 0:05:15.210 --> 0:05:24.689 and she said, of course. Did she learn his name, Stephano, It's. 0:05:24.570 --> 0:05:28.330 Anita, and you have I got a picture of a 0:05:28.409 --> 0:05:30.490 little baby Stefano. 0:05:31.409 --> 0:05:34.169 This is Anita in a video Debbie filmed a year 0:05:34.210 --> 0:05:37.769 before her mom's death. In the video, Anita is clutching 0:05:37.770 --> 0:05:39.890 a photograph taken during the flight. 0:05:40.010 --> 0:05:42.129 So you look at how beautiful he is. 0:05:43.169 --> 0:05:46.250 The photograph is oddly composed, almost like it was taken 0:05:46.289 --> 0:05:49.529 by accident when the camera was set down. Anita and 0:05:49.529 --> 0:05:52.810 Stefano's faces are both partially cut off, but you can 0:05:52.849 --> 0:05:55.529 tell that Anita is smiling big with the two year 0:05:55.529 --> 0:05:57.650 old Stefano peaceful in her arms. 0:05:58.049 --> 0:05:59.010 How old were you there? 0:05:59.650 --> 0:06:02.770 Twenty four? Look at how beautiful and sixty years ago 0:06:03.130 --> 0:06:04.330 nineteen fifty nine. 0:06:05.169 --> 0:06:06.930 It was a long flight to New York and they 0:06:06.929 --> 0:06:10.609 had to stop three times to refuel, so for eighteen hours, 0:06:10.810 --> 0:06:12.330 Anita held Stephano close. 0:06:13.049 --> 0:06:14.969 I think she just fell in love with him. She 0:06:15.130 --> 0:06:17.650 just fell in love with that little baby. She said, 0:06:17.729 --> 0:06:19.570 he was the best baby you could ever see. 0:06:19.729 --> 0:06:23.369 How good baby heels. He's the best baby. It was 0:06:23.690 --> 0:06:26.529 very happy. I was happy, Eddie. The baby was heavy. 0:06:27.330 --> 0:06:30.569 It was Anita's first time on an airplane and Stephano's two. 0:06:30.770 --> 0:06:33.729 They were both leaving behind everyone they knew and setting 0:06:33.770 --> 0:06:37.009 out alone for a new life in America. Clutching this 0:06:37.089 --> 0:06:39.810 baby over the ocean, the two of them smiling at 0:06:39.810 --> 0:06:43.490 each other. Anita and Stefano bonded. They were both off 0:06:43.529 --> 0:06:47.810 to what she hoped was a better life. 0:06:53.770 --> 0:06:56.610 They get to New York, she was holding the baby 0:06:57.369 --> 0:07:00.370 and the agency came up to her and then just 0:07:00.609 --> 0:07:02.609 took him right out of her arms. She said, they 0:07:02.609 --> 0:07:04.729 didn't say anything to her, They. 0:07:04.810 --> 0:07:08.490 Just take him away from me, and he started crying. 0:07:09.250 --> 0:07:10.930 He don't know nobody. 0:07:11.130 --> 0:07:13.090 There was no chance to even say goodbye. 0:07:13.450 --> 0:07:16.210 And I was crying him. I would crying out. 0:07:16.890 --> 0:07:19.129 Yeah, of course that's sad. 0:07:19.330 --> 0:07:20.530 It was like my baby. 0:07:21.770 --> 0:07:24.610 She would cry. She would cry when she talk about it. 0:07:25.770 --> 0:07:28.730 Even after raising two kids of her own, Anita never 0:07:28.770 --> 0:07:31.370 stopped talking about the child who was hers for a day. 0:07:32.090 --> 0:07:35.290 All through her life, even into her last years, everyone 0:07:35.330 --> 0:07:39.330 heard about Stephano. Anita continued to hope, always needed to 0:07:39.369 --> 0:07:41.930 believe that Stefano's life was a good one. 0:07:42.410 --> 0:07:45.410 She would say, I wonder where he is. Was he 0:07:45.450 --> 0:07:48.249 in a good home? What was his life like? 0:07:48.929 --> 0:07:51.369 I would like to know him and see how he's doing. 0:07:51.810 --> 0:07:54.770 I'm sorry, maybe you're far away. I don't know where 0:07:54.810 --> 0:07:57.290 are you. I was thinking all this year about him 0:07:57.450 --> 0:08:00.450 all the time. Yeah, and I love you even if 0:08:00.489 --> 0:08:01.690 I don't see you too long. 0:08:02.369 --> 0:08:04.929 That's a nice story, and I don't know if you 0:08:05.010 --> 0:08:08.770 understand it. I think so. 0:08:09.170 --> 0:08:12.090 When Anita was still alive, there were several attempts at 0:08:12.090 --> 0:08:16.290 finding Stefano. Anita sought out help from various friends and family, 0:08:16.650 --> 0:08:19.250 but no one was able to get anywhere. They even 0:08:19.250 --> 0:08:22.290 looked into a TV show that reunited adoptees with their 0:08:22.330 --> 0:08:26.810 birth parents, but Anita wasn't Stefano's birth parent. But then 0:08:26.850 --> 0:08:29.449 One day, Debbie brought up the subject of Stefano with 0:08:29.489 --> 0:08:30.970 her close friend Lindsay. 0:08:31.410 --> 0:08:34.090 Lindsay starts plugging stuff into the computer and she said, up, 0:08:34.730 --> 0:08:35.490 I found him. 0:08:35.810 --> 0:08:39.090 Hang on, but did you even have his last name? 0:08:39.810 --> 0:08:39.970 No? 0:08:40.330 --> 0:08:42.810 And who's this, Lindsay. Does she work for the state 0:08:42.850 --> 0:08:46.730 department or something? You would think as someone who makes 0:08:46.770 --> 0:08:49.810 his living tracking people down, like a nice version of 0:08:49.850 --> 0:08:52.890 dog the bounty hunter, A dog the bounty hunter who 0:08:53.250 --> 0:08:56.370 rather than dragging people off to jail, drags them off 0:08:56.450 --> 0:09:01.210 to heal. I'm professionally piqued by this, Lindsay. 0:09:04.410 --> 0:09:08.610 I have a skill for finding digital footprints of people. 0:09:09.290 --> 0:09:10.090 This is Lindsay. 0:09:10.450 --> 0:09:13.010 I'm the person that people go to if you want 0:09:13.010 --> 0:09:13.770 to know something. 0:09:15.050 --> 0:09:18.530 The only information she knew about Stefano was his age 0:09:18.530 --> 0:09:21.170 and the date of the flight. But with that she 0:09:21.210 --> 0:09:24.250 found Stefano's immigration record, which had the name of the 0:09:24.290 --> 0:09:27.330 man on it who was set to adopt him. From there, 0:09:27.610 --> 0:09:29.850 Lindsay found the adoptive father's obituary. 0:09:30.410 --> 0:09:33.690 Under the list of surviving children, there was the name Stephen, 0:09:34.250 --> 0:09:36.570 and you know, we put that together. 0:09:36.650 --> 0:09:47.130 As Stephaniel Stefano. In America, Stefano became Stephen, although Lindsay 0:09:47.210 --> 0:09:49.570 now had Stephano's full name, she had no way of 0:09:49.650 --> 0:09:52.290 getting in touch with them. She call Hied social media, 0:09:52.530 --> 0:09:55.010 but he was nowhere to be found. She did find 0:09:55.050 --> 0:09:57.610 his two brothers, though, so she messaged one. 0:09:58.010 --> 0:10:01.250 He said that it was a very nice story, but 0:10:01.450 --> 0:10:03.050 he doesn't speak to Stephen anymore. 0:10:04.810 --> 0:10:07.809 Yeah, And when Lindsay tried the other brother. 0:10:07.970 --> 0:10:11.490 It was basically this thing that they don't speak either. 0:10:12.250 --> 0:10:16.410 And then Lindsay dug a little deeper and it looked 0:10:16.450 --> 0:10:18.890 like he might have a criminal record. 0:10:19.730 --> 0:10:23.530 Debian Lindsay couldn't see what Stephen's criminal record was. It 0:10:23.690 --> 0:10:25.530 just came up as a flag on one of those 0:10:25.570 --> 0:10:28.890 people finding websites. But the reality of what they were 0:10:28.890 --> 0:10:32.370 doing suddenly sank in. They were looking for a potentially 0:10:32.450 --> 0:10:36.410 dangerous stranger to introduce to the elderly Anita, and it 0:10:36.490 --> 0:10:37.250 gave them pause. 0:10:37.810 --> 0:10:41.170 That paired with them not speaking to his brothers. Just 0:10:41.370 --> 0:10:44.050 we weren't there. Maybe this was our bapest way to 0:10:44.050 --> 0:10:46.690 go about this, and we wanted to take some time 0:10:47.410 --> 0:10:49.050 to kind of figure out a game plan. 0:10:49.930 --> 0:10:53.690 The time passed and no game plan emerged. Any year later, 0:10:53.850 --> 0:11:04.770 Anita died, never having gotten to reunite with Stefano. After 0:11:04.810 --> 0:11:07.530 the loss of a parent, there's often an attempt to 0:11:07.570 --> 0:11:11.210 honor a final wish, donating to a beloved cause or 0:11:11.250 --> 0:11:14.850 scattering ashes in a favorite place. But Debbie feels a 0:11:14.890 --> 0:11:17.650 need to fulfill a different kind of wish on her 0:11:17.650 --> 0:11:21.330 mother's behalf. She wants to know that Stefano is okay. 0:11:22.530 --> 0:11:26.770 Anita's death was very, very, very difficult, and I think 0:11:26.810 --> 0:11:29.450 it's healing for Debbie if we find him, and I 0:11:29.490 --> 0:11:32.930 think that she needs this more than b thinks she does. 0:11:34.250 --> 0:11:36.970 Lindsay says, Debbie never got the chance to fully grieve 0:11:37.010 --> 0:11:41.050 Anita after she died COVID hit. Then her father developed 0:11:41.050 --> 0:11:44.809 dementia and Debbie became his full time caretaker. Then her 0:11:44.810 --> 0:11:45.490 father died. 0:11:45.970 --> 0:11:51.130 Just always onto this next draining saying, you know, and 0:11:51.530 --> 0:11:55.170 since it is honoring this wish of her mom, it's 0:11:55.250 --> 0:11:57.370 helping her feel And I can just see that when 0:11:57.410 --> 0:12:02.210 we talk about the story, she's so hopeful and she's 0:12:02.290 --> 0:12:07.010 so determined, and this is something that I haven't seen 0:12:07.050 --> 0:12:09.050 with Debbie in a very long time. 0:12:09.530 --> 0:12:12.570 And for Debbie, she hopes this story might mean something 0:12:12.610 --> 0:12:13.650 to Stefano too. 0:12:14.450 --> 0:12:18.570 Maybe he needs to know that this woman thought of 0:12:18.690 --> 0:12:23.450 him for most of his life, loving him from a distance, 0:12:23.930 --> 0:12:27.290 wondering about him, praying for him. I mean, what a 0:12:27.330 --> 0:12:37.050 thing to know after the break, Let's find him. Let's 0:12:37.090 --> 0:12:39.210 find that guy, that little Stefano. 0:13:01.410 --> 0:13:05.890 So so here we are, here, we are, my producer, 0:13:05.970 --> 0:13:09.929 Khalila Houlton, I gather in the studio or mission is twofold. 0:13:10.410 --> 0:13:13.130 We want to find a way to contact Stephen. But 0:13:13.250 --> 0:13:16.050 before we do, we want to figure out what Stephen's 0:13:16.050 --> 0:13:21.370 mysterious criminal record actually is. Khalila starts tiptapping away on 0:13:21.410 --> 0:13:24.770 her computer while I settle in and offer the kind 0:13:24.810 --> 0:13:28.570 of input that only an investigative journalist with a decades 0:13:28.650 --> 0:13:31.970 long track record can I've gone through different phases in 0:13:32.010 --> 0:13:35.010 my life where a V neck was more appealing than 0:13:35.010 --> 0:13:37.090 a crew neck. It kind of goes it's always darkest 0:13:37.130 --> 0:13:39.570 before the dawn? Is that true? I was like to Augie, 0:13:39.610 --> 0:13:40.970 I was like, smell how good that is? And He's 0:13:41.010 --> 0:13:43.090 like that smells disgusting. I was like, I could think 0:13:43.090 --> 0:13:45.970 of other times when it's darker. It's probably darker at night. 0:13:46.090 --> 0:13:49.130 My gal don't do much talking dances even when she's 0:13:49.170 --> 0:13:51.970 walking on ontok Oh, look at that little squirrel. Oh, 0:13:52.010 --> 0:13:57.210 here's criminal traffic, and then finally we find the record 0:13:57.410 --> 0:14:03.090 we've been looking for. Do you why uh okay? In 0:14:03.210 --> 0:14:06.050 nineteen eighty nine. That was a long time ago, so 0:14:06.130 --> 0:14:09.530 there's really no other criminal past except to that's all 0:14:09.570 --> 0:14:13.290 I'm seeing. Boy, that's sad that that was enough to 0:14:13.370 --> 0:14:15.930 kind of make them drop the whole thing. 0:14:16.250 --> 0:14:20.170 Yeah, please leave your message for five. 0:14:20.330 --> 0:14:23.690 Khalila digs up some possible phone numbers for Stephen online, 0:14:24.130 --> 0:14:26.890 and in the weeks to come, I leave numerous voicemails. 0:14:27.210 --> 0:14:29.970 Hi there, I'm looking for a Stephen. I call so 0:14:30.050 --> 0:14:33.610 many numbers. I hear automated messages entirely new to me. 0:14:34.010 --> 0:14:36.010 The number is in service? 0:14:36.490 --> 0:14:37.490 Is in service? 0:14:37.570 --> 0:14:38.770 By your call again. 0:14:39.890 --> 0:14:42.570 None of these phone numbers lead me to Stephen. They 0:14:42.610 --> 0:14:44.650 just lead me to different robotic voices. 0:14:44.970 --> 0:14:46.490 You're calling out, all right? 0:14:46.690 --> 0:14:47.090 That's it. 0:14:47.450 --> 0:14:52.530 Yeah. 0:14:53.250 --> 0:14:56.730 With the telephone having crapped on our heads, we decide 0:14:56.770 --> 0:14:59.850 that what we need is an even older form of communication, 0:15:00.530 --> 0:15:05.850 the US Postal Service. Khalila uncovers three possible mailing addresses 0:15:05.890 --> 0:15:09.050 for Steven. So we write three letters and drop them 0:15:09.130 --> 0:15:12.130 in the mailbox, letting them fly off into the world 0:15:12.410 --> 0:15:16.610 like three hopeful birds. And then time as is its 0:15:16.690 --> 0:15:27.450 wont passes two years go by two years. It's unlikely 0:15:27.570 --> 0:15:32.170 the average podcast listener's brain, raised on podcasts about celebs, 0:15:32.330 --> 0:15:34.810 elk Steak and the science of why people go to 0:15:34.890 --> 0:15:39.530 the bathroom, can easily conceptualize the passage of so much time. 0:15:40.330 --> 0:15:43.250 If this was a video podcast, I'd stare into the 0:15:43.330 --> 0:15:47.130 camera with my patented deadpan affect as my beard and 0:15:47.210 --> 0:15:50.770 fingernails grew in time lapse. But since it isn't a 0:15:50.850 --> 0:16:08.130 video podcast, I present you an audiophonic aid that was 0:16:08.170 --> 0:16:13.690 only ten seconds. Now imagine two years, two years of 0:16:13.770 --> 0:16:17.490 refreshing my inbox and calling my answering service to no avail, 0:16:18.330 --> 0:16:21.690 and then Debbie and I check back in Where are 0:16:21.690 --> 0:16:23.730 you right now? It appears that you have a ladder 0:16:23.770 --> 0:16:24.250 behind you. 0:16:24.850 --> 0:16:26.050 Yes, I'm at home. 0:16:26.330 --> 0:16:27.850 And where does this ladder lead to? 0:16:28.450 --> 0:16:28.690 Oh? 0:16:29.210 --> 0:16:30.450 Nowhere, it's ladder to. 0:16:32.210 --> 0:16:34.050 We're going nowhere with this ladder. 0:16:34.130 --> 0:16:36.490 I hope we're going somewhere with this story. I hope 0:16:36.490 --> 0:16:39.650 we're not on a ladder to nowhere. It seems Debbie 0:16:39.650 --> 0:16:42.730 hasn't given up on Stefano. She tells me Lindsay found 0:16:42.730 --> 0:16:45.570 some of the same phone numbers we did, So Debbie 0:16:45.570 --> 0:16:49.250 two tried calling and leaving messages. No one ever called back, 0:16:49.290 --> 0:16:53.570 though still Debbie wants to keep trying, and so more 0:16:53.690 --> 0:16:57.690 letters are sent, more voicemails left, and two more months 0:16:57.730 --> 0:17:04.770 go by. I've completely given up hope. And then one 0:17:04.810 --> 0:17:09.010 afternoon I finally hear from Stephen. You did, I did? 0:17:09.210 --> 0:17:09.570 You did? 0:17:09.770 --> 0:17:10.050 I did? 0:17:10.210 --> 0:17:10.810 Wow? 0:17:11.090 --> 0:17:14.529 Yeah, sucked. I wasn't holding out a lot of hope 0:17:14.770 --> 0:17:20.129 me either. I tell Debbie about the phone call. How 0:17:20.169 --> 0:17:23.409 Stephen told me he dismissed my letters as a scam. 0:17:23.810 --> 0:17:26.490 I asked if he'd be open to a conversation with Debbie, 0:17:26.770 --> 0:17:29.689 but he said he doesn't have transportation, and when I 0:17:29.730 --> 0:17:31.729 said we could do a video call, he said he 0:17:31.770 --> 0:17:34.970 hasn't a cell phone nor a computer, and he quote 0:17:35.169 --> 0:17:39.090 doesn't follow the Internet. But eventually he said he'd be 0:17:39.090 --> 0:17:40.450 okay with a telephone call. 0:17:40.770 --> 0:17:41.609 I would love her. 0:17:42.449 --> 0:17:44.649 I think it's a gift that he doesn't realize. 0:17:44.770 --> 0:17:50.490 You know, So he is available one o'clock green Mountain time, 0:17:50.530 --> 0:17:53.530 So that would be like, oh, sorry, mountain time, Mountain time, 0:17:53.609 --> 0:17:59.409 not green Mountain After the break, Stephano at long last, 0:17:59.770 --> 0:18:02.329 his green Mountain time A thing sounds like a coffee thing. 0:18:02.929 --> 0:18:06.210 That would be three o'clock in St Cafe, So one 0:18:06.209 --> 0:18:24.369 o'clock Green Mountain. The next day, at one pm, Green 0:18:24.449 --> 0:18:27.889 Mountain time, Debbie and I convene. Okay, I'll give him 0:18:27.929 --> 0:18:30.810 a call, I'll phone him all and I'll introduce you guys. 0:18:31.570 --> 0:18:42.530 Okay, okay, Hello. 0:18:42.889 --> 0:18:49.489 Hello, Stephen. Y Hi, it's Jonathan phoning. I'm here with Debbie. 0:18:49.770 --> 0:18:51.890 Oh you are Hi, Stephen? 0:18:51.970 --> 0:18:52.489 How are you? 0:18:53.850 --> 0:18:56.289 I'm fine? How are you? 0:18:57.889 --> 0:19:01.769 I'm good. I'm really good, and I'm really excited to 0:19:01.889 --> 0:19:13.489 hear your voice and to know that you're here right now. So, Stephen. 0:19:13.570 --> 0:19:16.730 My mom her name was Anita. 0:19:16.090 --> 0:19:19.449 And Debbie lays it all out for Steven, the plane ride, 0:19:19.689 --> 0:19:22.250 the love Anita felt for him, and how that love 0:19:22.409 --> 0:19:24.530 endured for Anita's entire life. 0:19:24.970 --> 0:19:28.330 You were always on her mind for many, many years 0:19:28.490 --> 0:19:30.129 and told many people about you. 0:19:31.889 --> 0:19:32.169 Well. 0:19:32.330 --> 0:19:34.169 God bless your mom. 0:19:35.250 --> 0:19:37.290 I wish she had adopted me. 0:19:38.209 --> 0:19:40.929 I think she would have liked that too. 0:19:45.409 --> 0:19:48.450 Anita always wanted to know whether, after being taken from 0:19:48.490 --> 0:19:51.729 her arms, Stephano's life had been a good one. So 0:19:51.770 --> 0:19:54.210 we started at the beginning with Steven's adoption. 0:19:54.889 --> 0:19:56.930 My foster parents told me. 0:19:58.570 --> 0:20:00.689 Roughly at the age of eight. 0:20:02.129 --> 0:20:04.529 You call them your foster parents. Did they adopt you? 0:20:05.250 --> 0:20:05.490 Yes? 0:20:06.609 --> 0:20:07.729 Were they good people? 0:20:09.090 --> 0:20:12.450 I mean there was three squares a day. 0:20:14.330 --> 0:20:19.530 I mean there was no abuse or anything like that. 0:20:20.929 --> 0:20:25.570 I don't mind. Uh lickens is what my dad called it. 0:20:26.330 --> 0:20:27.169 Did you say, Lincoln? 0:20:28.530 --> 0:20:32.810 Yeah? About It wasn't abuse. 0:20:34.449 --> 0:20:38.050 It was just for disappoint purposes? 0:20:39.649 --> 0:20:39.889 Was that? 0:20:40.010 --> 0:20:40.609 Was that? Roth? 0:20:42.010 --> 0:20:43.969 Well for a little kid, it is? 0:20:46.169 --> 0:20:48.090 Did did you? But did you feel loved? 0:20:50.649 --> 0:20:52.449 Yes? I did? 0:20:54.889 --> 0:21:01.409 Oh I remember from childhood. Out of the friends and 0:21:01.449 --> 0:21:07.409 they turned out to be drug addicts. I turned out nominal. 0:21:09.330 --> 0:21:11.249 What do you mean when you say nominal? 0:21:12.209 --> 0:21:18.449 Well, I have a serious alcohol problem. Okay, I know 0:21:18.649 --> 0:21:24.289 I sound like I've been drinking, but I haven't. I 0:21:24.330 --> 0:21:30.770 don't have anything here. I was pretty much known as 0:21:31.050 --> 0:21:32.449 a boozer. 0:21:33.530 --> 0:21:36.369 Back in the day. Stephen says the drinking got bad, 0:21:36.810 --> 0:21:38.010 which led to the duy. 0:21:38.810 --> 0:21:42.729 You don't think when you drink, you get behind the 0:21:42.810 --> 0:21:49.409 wheel of a vehicle drunk is preposterous. 0:21:49.850 --> 0:21:50.530 Did your father? 0:21:50.770 --> 0:21:53.490 Did your adoptive father do something similar? 0:21:54.409 --> 0:21:58.330 He drank, but not in excess. 0:21:58.730 --> 0:22:04.449 I never saw him on a drunken stupor well, nobody's 0:22:04.570 --> 0:22:05.489 ever seen me. 0:22:07.409 --> 0:22:08.690 I won't watch them. 0:22:09.570 --> 0:22:11.370 Yeah, so you drink Alone. 0:22:13.649 --> 0:22:19.409 Yes, that song by that one guy, George sirgood, I 0:22:19.609 --> 0:22:22.649 Drink Alone reminds me of me. 0:22:24.609 --> 0:22:28.729 As the conversation goes on, Debbie grows increasingly quiet. So 0:22:28.850 --> 0:22:31.850 I do my best to draw Steven out. Did you 0:22:31.889 --> 0:22:32.809 did you get married? 0:22:34.409 --> 0:22:39.850 No, I've never been married. I've had relationships that they 0:22:41.129 --> 0:22:41.570 come and go. 0:22:43.369 --> 0:22:45.850 Would you say that you that you've been in love? 0:22:47.290 --> 0:22:50.129 I've been infatuated, proved that. 0:22:52.010 --> 0:22:57.289 And I lived with a lady for many years, but 0:22:57.490 --> 0:23:00.409 that was back in the eighties. 0:23:02.250 --> 0:23:05.650 What can you say about her, Joanne? 0:23:05.889 --> 0:23:11.730 Hmm uh, she died in a long camp. Sure, and 0:23:12.169 --> 0:23:17.010 I lived with her for like nine years. 0:23:17.209 --> 0:23:21.049 Oh boy, did she pass away while you were living together? 0:23:22.250 --> 0:23:23.650 Yeah? 0:23:23.929 --> 0:23:25.810 That must have been hard. 0:23:27.129 --> 0:23:30.850 Yeah was, But I moved on. 0:23:37.889 --> 0:23:40.009 Stephen tells us that he was in the Navy for 0:23:40.050 --> 0:23:42.889 four years, that he missed Vietnam by just a month. 0:23:43.649 --> 0:23:46.650 Most of his professional life was spent working in factories. 0:23:47.209 --> 0:23:50.210 I asked him about his brothers why they no longer speak, 0:23:50.570 --> 0:23:55.369 but he says nothing in particular happened. They just drifted. Overall, 0:23:55.409 --> 0:23:59.410 he says his life has been nominal and fortunate. When 0:23:59.449 --> 0:24:01.970 I ask how so, he cites the fact that he's 0:24:01.970 --> 0:24:04.969 never been homeless, although there was a brief period in 0:24:05.010 --> 0:24:07.649 twenty fourteen when he ended up in a veteran shelter. 0:24:08.369 --> 0:24:10.810 It was fine, says, except for the fact that he 0:24:10.850 --> 0:24:14.169 couldn't control the heat or the air conditioning, and shortly 0:24:14.209 --> 0:24:16.570 after that he moved into a room in his friend 0:24:16.570 --> 0:24:18.770 Carl's house, which is where he is now. 0:24:25.889 --> 0:24:29.649 I took a video of her telling the story. I 0:24:29.689 --> 0:24:31.570 don't know if you're interested in hearing it. 0:24:32.250 --> 0:24:34.570 DeBie wants Stephen to hear what he meant to Anita 0:24:34.770 --> 0:24:38.449 in Anita's own words. In response, Stephen says that he 0:24:38.490 --> 0:24:41.730 doesn't have access to a car right now, plus he's 0:24:41.730 --> 0:24:44.809 sick in bed. I assume he thinks we're asking him 0:24:44.850 --> 0:24:48.369 to go somewhere, So I try again to explain, we 0:24:48.449 --> 0:24:51.489 could try to play a little bit of the video 0:24:52.090 --> 0:24:56.410 over the phone so that you can hear Anita's voice. 0:24:58.330 --> 0:24:59.290 Not right now. 0:25:01.449 --> 0:25:07.770 I'm good, it's no misunderstanding. Stephen doesn't want to hear 0:25:07.770 --> 0:25:11.850 Anita Bill. Debbie tries to explain her mom's feelings for 0:25:11.929 --> 0:25:14.450 the baby she held during that flight to America. 0:25:15.090 --> 0:25:18.449 I think in some ways she felt like sympathical with you, 0:25:18.449 --> 0:25:21.369 you know, like sympathetic with you that you were both 0:25:21.449 --> 0:25:22.650 leaving your homeland. 0:25:23.449 --> 0:25:23.850 Hm hmm. 0:25:26.169 --> 0:25:28.449 I mean, is it strange to think that as a 0:25:28.490 --> 0:25:30.729 baby you were able to have such a strong effect 0:25:30.810 --> 0:25:31.450