WEBVTT - Ep. 347: Render - What Makes the Sticks Move? 0:00:14.640 --> 0:00:17.040 My name is Clay Nukleman, and this is a production 0:00:17.120 --> 0:00:20.720 of the bear Grease podcast called The Bear Grease Rendered 0:00:21.120 --> 0:00:25.200 where we render down, dive deeper, and look behind the 0:00:25.239 --> 0:00:30.120 scenes of the actual bear Grease podcast, presented by f 0:00:30.480 --> 0:00:35.360 HF Gear, American Maid, purpose built hunting and fishing gear 0:00:35.600 --> 0:00:38.560 that's designed to be as rugged as the place as 0:00:38.560 --> 0:00:48.320 we explore. So, I was just walking down by the 0:00:48.360 --> 0:00:51.680 creek just ten minutes ago, looked in a pool of 0:00:51.680 --> 0:00:55.120 water about six inches deep. Found that rock right there. Wow, 0:00:56.000 --> 0:00:56.920 that is a keeper. 0:00:57.600 --> 0:01:01.200 Yeah, how that get I feel like that is by accident. 0:01:02.160 --> 0:01:03.160 I think it's the thing. 0:01:04.120 --> 0:01:09.160 I think it's a geologic process because bear tell them 0:01:09.200 --> 0:01:09.840 what you just told me. 0:01:10.319 --> 0:01:12.360 I mean, I met a guy the today was wearing 0:01:12.360 --> 0:01:13.920 one on his neck like a necklace. 0:01:14.280 --> 0:01:16.880 But you come across him here and there, you know, Yeah. 0:01:16.720 --> 0:01:21.720 You'll come across this sandstone. In these creeks, this brown 0:01:22.520 --> 0:01:24.640 gravel will sometimes have a hole in it, and I'm 0:01:25.160 --> 0:01:28.080 I feel like there's a geologic explanation for it. And 0:01:28.160 --> 0:01:31.160 I think this is it really is. 0:01:31.200 --> 0:01:32.480 It's shockingly uniform. 0:01:32.760 --> 0:01:35.840 And I think this is a great opener for the 0:01:35.880 --> 0:01:42.160 water witching discussion because I think It's possible that five 0:01:42.240 --> 0:01:46.520 hundred years ago, before we knew as much about the universe, 0:01:47.560 --> 0:01:53.400 and the world was governed by superstition, by a whole 0:01:53.440 --> 0:01:57.640 lot of other you know, just odd cultural practices that 0:01:57.720 --> 0:02:00.320 tried to explain the mechanics of the universe. It's possible 0:02:00.400 --> 0:02:03.080 that a man would have picked that up and thought, oh, well, 0:02:03.120 --> 0:02:06.600 today I'm going to find a wife, or I'm gonna 0:02:06.640 --> 0:02:10.080 you know, there's gonna be some there's some correlation to 0:02:10.120 --> 0:02:11.839 what happens in your life when you find a round 0:02:11.919 --> 0:02:15.320 rock with a hole in it. But welcome to the barriers. 0:02:15.480 --> 0:02:19.000 But I have a I have another thought about that. Okay, 0:02:19.520 --> 0:02:22.520 we always wonder about the guy, you know, the cave 0:02:22.600 --> 0:02:24.559 man or the prehistoric. 0:02:24.840 --> 0:02:27.639 Inappropriate and offensive to call them cave man. Let's call 0:02:27.680 --> 0:02:30.160 them prehistoric man. 0:02:31.160 --> 0:02:34.640 The guy who invented the wheel. Maybe he didn't invent it, 0:02:34.680 --> 0:02:35.760 Maybe he just found it. 0:02:36.120 --> 0:02:39.639 That is brilliant. That could be a that could be 0:02:39.680 --> 0:02:40.360 its own book. 0:02:40.600 --> 0:02:42.840 Carry's got to finish this Sudoka that. 0:02:42.880 --> 0:02:45.640 Dad's over here studying. Welcome to the bar geras rendered. 0:02:45.680 --> 0:02:47.280 Dad got the believer hat on. 0:02:47.520 --> 0:02:48.880 You bet, man, I dressed up. 0:02:49.200 --> 0:02:52.799 This could be a whole new marketing campaign for you. 0:02:53.120 --> 0:02:55.440 We have not talked about waterwitch in a long time, 0:02:55.480 --> 0:02:57.160 so I don't really know where you stand on it 0:02:57.240 --> 0:03:01.120 right now. But should you be a believer or I 0:03:01.160 --> 0:03:04.160 could see like a new T shirt maybe with you 0:03:04.240 --> 0:03:06.079 holding the pair of witching sticks. 0:03:06.160 --> 0:03:07.120 Yeah, yeah, I could. 0:03:07.320 --> 0:03:08.840 You know, I could use the extra money. 0:03:09.320 --> 0:03:15.880 Yeah, I charge for photoshopping deals all photoshop misty. 0:03:16.040 --> 0:03:18.480 Welcome. It's been a while since we've had the crew 0:03:18.520 --> 0:03:19.040 back together. 0:03:20.160 --> 0:03:21.200 Itukem. 0:03:22.440 --> 0:03:25.079 It's a lot of it's a lot of a lot 0:03:25.120 --> 0:03:29.920 of new coombs here today. But I'm really excited to 0:03:29.919 --> 0:03:32.560 talk about water witching and let me tell you, and 0:03:32.600 --> 0:03:35.880 i'd like to hear y'all's thoughts on this. It's super 0:03:36.000 --> 0:03:39.680 risky to do a podcast like this because if you're 0:03:39.680 --> 0:03:44.040 a if you're a serious journalist, which I consider myself 0:03:44.280 --> 0:03:46.920 a serious journalist. I mean that doesn't mean I always 0:03:46.960 --> 0:03:51.520 talk about serious topics or topics of consequence necessarily, but 0:03:52.080 --> 0:03:54.360 I take my reporting seriously. 0:03:54.400 --> 0:03:56.480 If I tell a story, I want it to be accurate. 0:03:56.920 --> 0:03:59.920 Now I do in the style of storytelling that I 0:04:00.160 --> 0:04:03.600 do on the Bear Grease podcast. Look, they're journalists that 0:04:03.880 --> 0:04:07.680 just report the facts and do not insert themselves into it. 0:04:08.200 --> 0:04:11.560 That's most of the journalism, maybe not most, a percentage 0:04:11.560 --> 0:04:15.120 of the journalism that we see, like a newscaster on 0:04:15.160 --> 0:04:18.400 your local news station is basically just going to be 0:04:18.520 --> 0:04:22.280 like at seven oh one pm tonight, a tractor trailer 0:04:22.360 --> 0:04:25.880 rig ran into the bridge and ran off the road. 0:04:26.960 --> 0:04:30.479 Authorities are responding now, and then they might input a 0:04:30.520 --> 0:04:33.920 little bit of their their personal opinion at the end, 0:04:34.120 --> 0:04:36.320 like I wonder what happened to him? And it's kind 0:04:36.360 --> 0:04:44.719 of funny, point me, point ban the kind of journalism 0:04:44.760 --> 0:04:47.520 I do on Bear Grease. I want to bring people 0:04:47.520 --> 0:04:50.520 along on my journey to answer questions that I have, 0:04:51.320 --> 0:04:53.760 you know, and so I try never to put my 0:04:53.920 --> 0:04:56.320 thumb on the scale. But if I do, I'm telling 0:04:56.360 --> 0:04:59.039 you that I'm doing it, you know, because that's where 0:04:59.080 --> 0:05:02.359 authors get in trouble, is when they take research or 0:05:02.480 --> 0:05:04.680 not get in trouble, but where they just create a 0:05:04.720 --> 0:05:07.919 book or a piece of work that's not really that 0:05:08.000 --> 0:05:11.599 doesn't really stand up against criticism because their thumbs on 0:05:11.640 --> 0:05:14.240 the scale, like they're taking the research and they're trying 0:05:14.279 --> 0:05:17.400 to push it to become what they want it to be. 0:05:18.360 --> 0:05:21.000 It's possible that someone could listen to this episode of 0:05:21.000 --> 0:05:23.919 Burgers and say I did that here. But I really 0:05:23.960 --> 0:05:30.239 tried to be very upfront with the data that I had, 0:05:31.000 --> 0:05:39.919 which was a many decades of being exposed to waterwitching, dowsing, rods, 0:05:40.520 --> 0:05:45.640 these things, and what I know about the research on it, 0:05:46.120 --> 0:05:52.000 this IDEO motor effect, the limited understanding of the actual 0:05:52.880 --> 0:05:55.760 science that they did when they did blind tests with 0:05:55.880 --> 0:05:59.440 water witchers and decided they couldn't find things underground anymore 0:05:59.440 --> 0:06:00.359 than anybody else. 0:06:01.520 --> 0:06:02.760 But but. 0:06:04.960 --> 0:06:07.760 I think it's kind of foolish just to type in 0:06:07.880 --> 0:06:12.680 Google and say what does What's what fuels dowsers and 0:06:12.720 --> 0:06:16.360 water witchers and it says ideometer effect and you just go, Okay, 0:06:16.440 --> 0:06:20.760 well that's what it is. Because I'm not convinced that 0:06:20.800 --> 0:06:27.680 we're asking right questions. But what what was your impressions 0:06:27.720 --> 0:06:30.720 of the of the of the podcast? We're just going 0:06:30.760 --> 0:06:34.240 to jump right in, okay, bear. 0:06:36.000 --> 0:06:40.400 Now, uh Hey. I found it very intriguing because I've 0:06:40.760 --> 0:06:45.200 dowsed and water witched and you know, seen this stuff 0:06:45.240 --> 0:06:48.400 and been involved known people who did it all my life, 0:06:49.440 --> 0:06:53.159 and uh, to actually get in it and study it 0:06:53.240 --> 0:06:54.760 and talk about it, I found. 0:06:54.560 --> 0:06:57.280 It very intriguing. 0:06:57.640 --> 0:07:01.760 Gary, what was the earliest the earliest time you remember 0:07:02.240 --> 0:07:04.279 seeing someone do it or doing it yourself. 0:07:04.400 --> 0:07:05.360 My uncle. 0:07:06.880 --> 0:07:12.480 Was building a new house in Glenwood, Arkansas, and I 0:07:12.520 --> 0:07:15.280 was probably a ten year old kid, and he could 0:07:15.400 --> 0:07:21.880 stick went out, he dug well, and I'm pretty sure 0:07:21.920 --> 0:07:26.520 it worked. I don't remember the results, but that that 0:07:26.640 --> 0:07:29.560 was he did it. Yeah, he did it. Yeah, Yeah. 0:07:29.760 --> 0:07:34.680 And I talked to his daughter about that, and she 0:07:34.880 --> 0:07:37.200 remembered it. She remembered him doing that. 0:07:37.520 --> 0:07:45.160 And anyway, I'm I am amazed at the the ubiquitous 0:07:45.240 --> 0:07:47.480 nature of knowledge of water witching in this part of 0:07:47.520 --> 0:07:54.200 the world, because I don't think it's that way everywhere. Partly, 0:07:54.640 --> 0:07:56.680 we talked about it on the podcast. If you live 0:07:56.760 --> 0:07:59.040 over a major aquifer, which there's a lot of parts 0:07:59.040 --> 0:08:02.080 of the country, like in the Grand Prairie in East 0:08:02.160 --> 0:08:05.880 Arkansas on the Mississippi River, there's these giant aquifers, and 0:08:06.560 --> 0:08:09.200 there's no question that there is water one hundred foot 0:08:09.200 --> 0:08:12.640 down or sixty foot down or two hundred foot down. 0:08:13.040 --> 0:08:17.120 You don't even have to guess. And so naturally in 0:08:17.160 --> 0:08:21.040 those areas there's not as many water witchers, or at 0:08:21.120 --> 0:08:23.080 least it's not as common because you don't it's not 0:08:23.120 --> 0:08:25.160 a question that has to be answered. 0:08:25.160 --> 0:08:27.920 Kind of gravitates towards like mountain culture. 0:08:27.520 --> 0:08:31.680 A little bit. Well, I think, so I wouldn't have known. 0:08:32.200 --> 0:08:34.240 I mean, I'm not an expert on this at all, 0:08:34.400 --> 0:08:39.360 so I really just kind of was answering these questions 0:08:39.360 --> 0:08:42.160 that I had. So I haven't really pulled the world 0:08:43.000 --> 0:08:45.760 to be like, where does this happen? But Roger Quinton, 0:08:46.160 --> 0:08:50.480 my buddy, Roger Quinton, who is just a classic Ozark 0:08:50.720 --> 0:08:53.760 cattleman over here, just I knew I hadn't talked to 0:08:53.920 --> 0:08:56.280 Roger in a while, and I had no doubt that 0:08:56.360 --> 0:08:59.120 Roger would give me good information on water witching. I 0:08:59.240 --> 0:09:01.160 never heard of talk about it a day in his life. 0:09:01.480 --> 0:09:03.920 And I called him and I said, Roger, what do 0:09:03.920 --> 0:09:07.439 you know about water witching? And he was just like, oh, man, 0:09:07.640 --> 0:09:10.240 I don't know nothing about water witch and barbera bruh. 0:09:10.480 --> 0:09:11.680 And then he said, now. 0:09:11.559 --> 0:09:13.760 I did witch a well for Belly last year and 0:09:13.800 --> 0:09:16.679 we got fifty gallons of water and he and he 0:09:16.760 --> 0:09:19.160 knew a lot about water witching. And he couldn't believe 0:09:19.200 --> 0:09:22.400 I wanted to. He couldn't believe I wanted to interview him, 0:09:22.720 --> 0:09:26.480 because in his mind, he's just kind of he doesn't 0:09:26.520 --> 0:09:29.040 know much about it, but but he actually does. But 0:09:29.200 --> 0:09:33.439 what he said that was so just spelled it out, 0:09:33.720 --> 0:09:38.160 was he he described those four wells within like two 0:09:38.240 --> 0:09:41.320 hundred and fifty yards of each other. You know, it 0:09:41.400 --> 0:09:43.920 was on a border of his property. So like one 0:09:43.920 --> 0:09:45.960 of the wells was on his property, one was on 0:09:46.040 --> 0:09:48.880 a neighbor, one was on another neighbor. And there was 0:09:49.720 --> 0:09:53.439 two good wells, one well with natural gas, one sulfur water. 0:09:54.040 --> 0:09:56.400 And then he said, there's places in the valley he 0:09:56.440 --> 0:09:58.560 lives where you could drill thousand feet and not get water. 0:09:59.440 --> 0:10:03.760 And so you kind of start to see culturally socially, like, 0:10:03.880 --> 0:10:07.480 especially before modern well drilling, stuff like this is a 0:10:07.559 --> 0:10:12.160 question that the people needed answered that the consequence was 0:10:12.200 --> 0:10:15.040 often a matter of feet, like if you dug it 0:10:15.520 --> 0:10:19.880 there or there could make a difference in Karce terrain, 0:10:20.920 --> 0:10:23.920 It really could. And so you know, so many of 0:10:23.960 --> 0:10:29.520 these kind of folk remedies answer a fundamental question that 0:10:29.559 --> 0:10:34.200 people just don't have insight into, you know. But I 0:10:34.240 --> 0:10:39.000 wanted to say this in the intro to people are 0:10:39.040 --> 0:10:42.320 going to roast me. I put a I put I 0:10:42.360 --> 0:10:47.240 put a a video up of Carl Holt, which in 0:10:47.320 --> 0:10:50.880 water on my Instagram today and that dad to me 0:10:51.160 --> 0:10:55.560 was like walking into a gauntlet. I knew that the 0:10:55.600 --> 0:10:59.720 world was going to roast me for the unintelligence of 0:10:59.800 --> 0:11:03.080 me like believing this stuff just when you throw it 0:11:03.080 --> 0:11:05.400 to the mass audience. I think if any one of 0:11:05.400 --> 0:11:08.680 those people listen to my podcast, they would see that 0:11:08.840 --> 0:11:11.240 I was not trying to answer the question of does 0:11:11.320 --> 0:11:12.480 water witching work? 0:11:12.800 --> 0:11:14.800 Right, No, that's not the question. 0:11:16.920 --> 0:11:20.200 I'm not convinced that it does. No, to be honest 0:11:20.200 --> 0:11:24.120 with him, I'm not sure that water witching actually you 0:11:24.200 --> 0:11:30.079 can find underground water. But something moves the sticks, and 0:11:30.120 --> 0:11:32.560 that's that's the answer to the question. 0:11:33.160 --> 0:11:35.760 What moves the sticks? 0:11:35.960 --> 0:11:40.439 Period. So for for all you people out there that 0:11:40.800 --> 0:11:44.480 commented on my Instagram before you listen to the podcast, 0:11:44.559 --> 0:11:47.000 I'm sorry that I'm I'm listening. 0:11:47.040 --> 0:11:49.760 I'm looking at some of these comments. You got a 0:11:49.800 --> 0:11:51.840 lot of people who believe in it. 0:11:52.080 --> 0:11:54.280 Yeah, there was actually the home team came in. 0:11:54.480 --> 0:11:56.400 Yeah, he appreciated. 0:11:56.559 --> 0:11:58.240 And then you got a couple of people who are 0:11:58.840 --> 0:12:04.319 micro analyzing your guys. Knuckles and hands and width a 0:12:04.400 --> 0:12:07.280 part at the beginning versus the end, which also is 0:12:07.360 --> 0:12:09.520 kind of tricky to do when someone's walking towards you. 0:12:10.960 --> 0:12:16.240 Why I put two different angles and on of the 0:12:16.320 --> 0:12:20.120 video and I didn't expect it to translate. I truly 0:12:20.160 --> 0:12:21.880 didn't expect it to translate. 0:12:22.400 --> 0:12:28.920 I think it's really like try it. Just try it. 0:12:29.080 --> 0:12:31.000 I mean, grab a couple of coat hangers and go 0:12:31.040 --> 0:12:35.320 try it. I mean, I keep saying it like I 0:12:35.440 --> 0:12:39.760 was a skeptic. I thought it was somebody was I 0:12:39.800 --> 0:12:43.080 thought it was IDEO motor or someone just moving it. 0:12:43.120 --> 0:12:44.959 But when you put two rods in your hands, tell 0:12:45.040 --> 0:12:45.440 it moved. 0:12:45.440 --> 0:12:47.120 Tell what the idio motor effect. 0:12:47.160 --> 0:12:52.440 The IDEO motor effect is that you you create subconscious movement, 0:12:52.600 --> 0:12:56.360 like it's literally subconscious. You don't know you're doing it. 0:12:56.360 --> 0:13:01.839 It looks like something's moving it, but it's actually you, yeah, subconsciously. 0:13:02.120 --> 0:13:05.640 And if you type in on the internet, what makes 0:13:05.720 --> 0:13:07.120 witching sticks move on? 0:13:08.160 --> 0:13:09.840 That pops up very quickly. 0:13:13.000 --> 0:13:15.640 I think to just accept that as true just because 0:13:15.640 --> 0:13:21.559 the Google says it is not super super intelligent either. 0:13:21.679 --> 0:13:25.160 Because I did some research on the audiometer effect and 0:13:25.360 --> 0:13:27.480 I would love to get an expert. I would fly 0:13:27.520 --> 0:13:30.760 across the country to talk to the national expert on 0:13:30.840 --> 0:13:36.199 the audiometer motor audio motor effect. I truly would because 0:13:37.840 --> 0:13:40.360 basically what you're looking at there, Well, I. 0:13:40.320 --> 0:13:42.640 Was looking at the things and now I'm looking at 0:13:42.640 --> 0:13:44.920 ideo motor effect because I think you need have to 0:13:44.960 --> 0:13:46.959 find it for people who have not did not listen 0:13:46.960 --> 0:13:47.400 to your thing. 0:13:47.880 --> 0:13:52.959 Yeah, basically, it's where your thoughts trigger. Yeah, so it's 0:13:53.000 --> 0:13:57.560 a psychological phenomenon where unconscious thoughts and intentions can influence 0:13:57.880 --> 0:14:05.320 bodily movements and actions, sometimes leading to seemingly inexplicable physical responses. 0:14:06.080 --> 0:14:12.280 So basically it's saying that the person holding the rods 0:14:12.520 --> 0:14:16.400 is moving in himself and that that's a that's the 0:14:16.440 --> 0:14:18.680 first thing that you would think if you saw somebody 0:14:18.720 --> 0:14:20.800 doing it, it's like, well, yeah, you're just you're just 0:14:20.880 --> 0:14:24.920 moving it down. If if it is in fact that 0:14:25.240 --> 0:14:29.200 audio motor effect, that's pretty cool that we can be 0:14:29.480 --> 0:14:33.600 that unconscious. And it makes me wonder what other areas 0:14:33.600 --> 0:14:40.760 of life are we completely divorced from reality? Because if 0:14:40.760 --> 0:14:42.560 you take a pair of clotheshangers out in your yard 0:14:42.600 --> 0:14:45.200 and walk over your waterline, let me know what happens. 0:14:46.400 --> 0:14:50.080 It doesn't not work sometimes and does work sometimes. 0:14:52.000 --> 0:14:53.360 It Wait what are you saying? 0:14:53.520 --> 0:14:56.720 I mean it's not it works every time? 0:14:56.800 --> 0:14:58.720 Right, yeah, it works every time? 0:14:59.560 --> 0:15:00.600 What did you think, Misty. 0:15:01.640 --> 0:15:03.680 I thought it was really interesting. I did bring my 0:15:03.680 --> 0:15:06.000 psychology book from my color section. 0:15:06.240 --> 0:15:08.160 We get we let bear go, Yeah, let go. 0:15:08.400 --> 0:15:11.760 I'll yeah, I'm sorry, Okay, I'm I'm kind of torn, 0:15:11.920 --> 0:15:14.000 like they were there were you know, like whenever you 0:15:14.040 --> 0:15:16.600 say something like that and whenever you know, like I've 0:15:16.600 --> 0:15:19.960 done it before and the sticks cross. But then also 0:15:20.160 --> 0:15:24.080 like whenever you really dug into like you know, individual 0:15:24.720 --> 0:15:28.400 situations where like it worked, sometimes it didn't work. You know, 0:15:28.440 --> 0:15:30.480 it's kind of fifty to fifty. I'm a little bit torn. 0:15:31.280 --> 0:15:34.680 But here's what I think. I think that this is 0:15:34.720 --> 0:15:36.440 maybe one of those things you just don't look too 0:15:36.480 --> 0:15:39.320 deep into. You just kind of like, you know, it's 0:15:39.400 --> 0:15:41.920 like you don't have to have the science on it. 0:15:42.600 --> 0:15:44.280 Like I whenever I was listening to it, I was 0:15:44.360 --> 0:15:47.000 kind of thinking about like you know, like sometimes whenever 0:15:47.000 --> 0:15:50.720 you're hunting, there's like a logical way to go about something, 0:15:51.200 --> 0:15:52.920 but while you're out there, you feel like you should 0:15:52.920 --> 0:15:55.840 do something else that makes no sense. And I've had 0:15:55.880 --> 0:15:58.000 a lot of success doing that instead of doing what 0:15:58.160 --> 0:16:01.720 made sense. And I feel like it's like not, you know, 0:16:01.760 --> 0:16:05.560 there's no science behind it, Like there's no real logical thinking. 0:16:05.600 --> 0:16:08.560 And I think on something like this, we're looking too 0:16:08.600 --> 0:16:10.480 deep into the logic and. 0:16:10.480 --> 0:16:11.920 Maybe there's there's no logic. 0:16:12.600 --> 0:16:16.400 Maybe it's just stick's just cross, you know. So I 0:16:16.440 --> 0:16:19.080 don't know, I'm kind of torn because like, you know, 0:16:19.280 --> 0:16:21.240 like there is a lot of it that's kind of 0:16:22.920 --> 0:16:26.160 like you know, it's just kind of like skepticism a 0:16:26.240 --> 0:16:30.880 little bit or like you know, but yeah, I don't know, 0:16:30.960 --> 0:16:31.760 I'm kind of torn. 0:16:31.920 --> 0:16:34.920 Well, and I think that's where that's where I ended 0:16:34.960 --> 0:16:38.840 too was And you know, if you haven't listened to 0:16:38.840 --> 0:16:42.200 the episode, that that's the spoiler, is that at the end, 0:16:42.440 --> 0:16:48.640 I'm really no closer to a a synopsis that that 0:16:48.720 --> 0:16:52.280 wasn't at the beginning because I would believe the ideo 0:16:52.400 --> 0:16:55.640 motor effect. If I sat with an expert today and 0:16:55.680 --> 0:16:59.640 he and I could understand how the sticks and Carl 0:17:00.080 --> 0:17:06.560 Holt's hands. Hey, I'm a smart fella, smart enough, I 0:17:06.640 --> 0:17:10.800 promise you anybody that was standing three feet from Carl 0:17:10.880 --> 0:17:16.280 Holt and saw those sticks, you just would be like 0:17:16.440 --> 0:17:21.360 they're moving, Like I'm not that gullible that they literally 0:17:21.440 --> 0:17:24.679 twisted in his hands while his hand And that was 0:17:24.760 --> 0:17:27.680 my point, is okay, if it is the IDEO motor fact. 0:17:27.720 --> 0:17:31.080 And again some expert potentially could tell me how this 0:17:31.119 --> 0:17:34.160 is possible. Now, if the human palm was lined with 0:17:34.240 --> 0:17:40.520 like snakeskin scales or centipede leg and you could you 0:17:40.520 --> 0:17:43.280 could hold something in your hand like that turkey leg 0:17:43.400 --> 0:17:48.080 right there and make it twist. If we could do 0:17:48.160 --> 0:17:51.359 that physically, I would be like, yeah, it's the IDEO motor. 0:17:52.280 --> 0:17:54.760 It's it's like him holding that right there and that 0:17:54.800 --> 0:17:59.399 turkey leg twisting. It's like your hand didn't twist the 0:17:59.400 --> 0:18:02.280 turkey leg. Do you understand? That's the only part. And 0:18:02.760 --> 0:18:05.760 I have to get excited about that because that's just 0:18:05.800 --> 0:18:07.000 what I believe. 0:18:07.440 --> 0:18:09.879 Here's the thing that throws another wrench into it to me, 0:18:10.040 --> 0:18:13.159 Like I could see where putting the metal rods in 0:18:13.200 --> 0:18:17.000 your hands, Like I thought it was interesting what Carl said. 0:18:17.000 --> 0:18:19.640 He said, I think it's something in someone's body, Yeah 0:18:19.640 --> 0:18:21.720 that makes it do it. Like I could see there 0:18:21.760 --> 0:18:26.520 being some kind of an electromagnetic force in there that 0:18:26.560 --> 0:18:31.440 could cause those metal rods to move. I don't understand 0:18:31.440 --> 0:18:33.280 how it translates with a green limb. 0:18:34.600 --> 0:18:39.560 Yeah. Well that's what doctor Kinnefect said was that if 0:18:39.560 --> 0:18:42.840 a physicist were trying to analyze this These are two 0:18:43.760 --> 0:18:45.200 completely different questions. 0:18:45.400 --> 0:18:47.960 We need a physicist to go water witch with us 0:18:49.400 --> 0:18:50.480 and be. 0:18:52.119 --> 0:18:56.280 Well, they wouldn't. I don't think they'd have any more 0:18:56.320 --> 0:18:58.600 conclusions than we already have. 0:18:58.840 --> 0:19:02.920 I mean, but there's always so much skepticism, you know 0:19:02.920 --> 0:19:05.880 what I mean, they they're they're they're taking people's word 0:19:05.920 --> 0:19:09.240 for it. I want them to try it. Yeah, let's 0:19:09.359 --> 0:19:10.920 kidnap ken Effect and take him out. 0:19:11.160 --> 0:19:12.639 Oh, he would do it. He was He was a 0:19:12.680 --> 0:19:18.280 cool guy. Quick story about doctor Kenefect. Haven't seen him 0:19:18.480 --> 0:19:21.840 first of all. This episode I thought just laid out 0:19:21.920 --> 0:19:25.560 really fun. I mean, part of the other thing. The 0:19:25.640 --> 0:19:28.600 reason I talked about this is just I'm interested in 0:19:28.600 --> 0:19:33.480 how culturally people handle water witching, you know how how 0:19:33.600 --> 0:19:36.359 Carl Holt when I said he knew, He's like, there's 0:19:36.359 --> 0:19:40.320 no science behind this. Science says it's fake. And I'm like, 0:19:40.760 --> 0:19:42.680 do you have a problem with that? And I mean 0:19:42.920 --> 0:19:45.719 he's like, no, I mean it works. 0:19:46.119 --> 0:19:46.880 That was his thing. 0:19:46.920 --> 0:19:49.919 That's what That's pretty much what all the people on 0:19:49.960 --> 0:19:52.760 the podcast said are just like, hey, I don't need 0:19:52.800 --> 0:19:58.520 science to validate this. It works. But it was really 0:19:58.520 --> 0:20:01.800 cool here and Mark Findahl, my dear friend up the road, 0:20:01.840 --> 0:20:05.680 here talk about Seth Timmins, that old man. And now 0:20:05.800 --> 0:20:09.720 I hope that people understood that what Seth is doing, 0:20:11.240 --> 0:20:14.119 I think we could say, I mean that's like stretching 0:20:14.960 --> 0:20:15.840 the rules a lot. 0:20:16.040 --> 0:20:17.480 Which part of it it. 0:20:17.560 --> 0:20:22.600 Was a gift or well, he cures would carry them 0:20:23.200 --> 0:20:25.679 with him, pill bottles with him that were full of 0:20:25.760 --> 0:20:29.080 whatever he was looking for, and so he would take 0:20:29.119 --> 0:20:31.879 his he would take his rods, and if he wanted 0:20:31.880 --> 0:20:36.720 to find sulfur water or well, he actually mainly used 0:20:36.720 --> 0:20:39.640 his pill bottles for finding natural gas. So he had 0:20:39.720 --> 0:20:43.560 natural gas sand in one, good water in one. So 0:20:43.600 --> 0:20:46.240 he basically his rods might indicate and he might not 0:20:46.320 --> 0:20:49.000 know if it's sulfur water regular water. So he'd put 0:20:49.080 --> 0:20:51.440 sulfur water in his hand and see if it indicated, 0:20:51.680 --> 0:20:53.160 and if it did, he'd be like, man, you got 0:20:53.160 --> 0:20:56.879 sulfur water. And he could also had mechanisms to be 0:20:56.880 --> 0:20:59.640 able to tell how deep it was and all this stuff. 0:21:00.119 --> 0:21:02.760 I wonder if he kept a diary or anything of 0:21:04.160 --> 0:21:07.520 all his water witching, right, because talking to Colin Eaton, 0:21:08.320 --> 0:21:10.359 I mean he's like, he's like, I do this five 0:21:10.400 --> 0:21:12.439 times a week, and I can do it with one 0:21:12.480 --> 0:21:13.600 hundred percent certainty. 0:21:14.080 --> 0:21:19.320 Yeah, Yeah, it's it's tricky because when you when you 0:21:19.359 --> 0:21:22.120 hear people who do stuff, and I understand all the reasons, 0:21:22.320 --> 0:21:24.639 but when you you hear people I'm kind of a 0:21:24.640 --> 0:21:28.919 bear where I've had enough experiences and I think that 0:21:29.000 --> 0:21:32.560 there's you know, there's a natural world and and and 0:21:32.600 --> 0:21:35.479 that has laws that govern it, but that's not the 0:21:35.480 --> 0:21:38.160 only world we interface with, and and I just think 0:21:38.200 --> 0:21:42.240 that when you I don't know, I tend to on 0:21:42.560 --> 0:21:45.760 this kind of stuff that has this many different potential 0:21:46.760 --> 0:21:50.360 potential ways to measure it in any Yeah, I tend 0:21:50.359 --> 0:21:52.880 to go with the people who have experienced over because 0:21:52.920 --> 0:21:55.359 I don't trust the lab in that scenario. I know 0:21:55.480 --> 0:21:57.720 it's not going to work. I know you cannot measure 0:21:57.800 --> 0:22:01.359 some things in a lab because the circumstances the lab 0:22:01.400 --> 0:22:03.679 are not the same. But when I hear someone say, 0:22:03.800 --> 0:22:06.320 I've done this a thousand times in the last three years, 0:22:06.560 --> 0:22:08.760 I'm going to go with what that guy says, because 0:22:08.760 --> 0:22:12.240 I trust that more than this lab experience of just 0:22:12.320 --> 0:22:15.359 at working in social science and even in physical science, 0:22:15.440 --> 0:22:18.520 it labs have some limitations. 0:22:19.560 --> 0:22:23.600 Doctor kin Effect's story was so spot on when he 0:22:23.640 --> 0:22:26.600 gave the example of the Russian lab that they thought 0:22:26.640 --> 0:22:29.880 it was fraudulent because they couldn't replicate this thing anywhere. 0:22:29.920 --> 0:22:31.840 And they go there and they watch what they do, 0:22:31.920 --> 0:22:34.960 and the sky, you know, puts this ear grease. He 0:22:35.080 --> 0:22:36.760 runs the wire behind his ear. 0:22:37.400 --> 0:22:40.399 It's ear grease, not bear grease, right right, And. 0:22:40.280 --> 0:22:41.000 That is what. 0:22:41.520 --> 0:22:45.080 There is a similar podcast this in the Soviet in 0:22:45.160 --> 0:22:48.040 Russia called ear Grease. 0:22:50.600 --> 0:22:53.760 That's that is what. And I talked to doctor Kenfect 0:22:53.840 --> 0:22:56.560 for over an hour and you heard like seventeen minutes 0:22:56.680 --> 0:23:00.440 or maybe like nine minutes of him talking. And that's baseasically, 0:23:01.160 --> 0:23:04.480 we just went round and round about like what exactly 0:23:04.520 --> 0:23:08.560 are we studying? Because the difference between Seth Timmins born 0:23:08.520 --> 0:23:11.440 in nineteen twelve that carries around pill bottles sulfur water 0:23:11.520 --> 0:23:15.600 and good water and saltwater, and Colin Deaton, who works 0:23:15.680 --> 0:23:19.320 up here at this excavation company in northwest Arkansas, that 0:23:19.359 --> 0:23:24.159 which is utility lines, you might as well be comparing, 0:23:24.440 --> 0:23:29.080