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Speaker 1: My name is Clay Nukleman, and this is a production

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Speaker 1: of the bear Grease podcast called The Bear Grease Rendered

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Speaker 1: where we render down, dive deeper, and look behind the

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Speaker 1: scenes of the actual bear Grease podcast, presented by f

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Speaker 1: HF Gear, American Maid, purpose built hunting and fishing gear

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Speaker 1: that's designed to be as rugged as the place as

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Speaker 1: we explore. So, I was just walking down by the

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Speaker 1: creek just ten minutes ago, looked in a pool of

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Speaker 1: water about six inches deep. Found that rock right there. Wow,

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Speaker 1: that is a keeper.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, how that get I feel like that is by accident.

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Speaker 3: I think it's the thing.

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Speaker 1: I think it's a geologic process because bear tell them

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Speaker 1: what you just told me.

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Speaker 4: I mean, I met a guy the today was wearing

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Speaker 4: one on his neck like a necklace.

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Speaker 3: But you come across him here and there, you know, Yeah.

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Speaker 1: You'll come across this sandstone. In these creeks, this brown

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Speaker 1: gravel will sometimes have a hole in it, and I'm

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Speaker 1: I feel like there's a geologic explanation for it. And

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Speaker 1: I think this is it really is.

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Speaker 3: It's shockingly uniform.

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Speaker 1: And I think this is a great opener for the

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Speaker 1: water witching discussion because I think It's possible that five

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Speaker 1: hundred years ago, before we knew as much about the universe,

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Speaker 1: and the world was governed by superstition, by a whole

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Speaker 1: lot of other you know, just odd cultural practices that

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Speaker 1: tried to explain the mechanics of the universe. It's possible

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Speaker 1: that a man would have picked that up and thought, oh, well,

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Speaker 1: today I'm going to find a wife, or I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: you know, there's gonna be some there's some correlation to

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Speaker 1: what happens in your life when you find a round

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Speaker 1: rock with a hole in it. But welcome to the barriers.

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Speaker 2: But I have a I have another thought about that. Okay,

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Speaker 2: we always wonder about the guy, you know, the cave

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Speaker 2: man or the prehistoric.

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Speaker 1: Inappropriate and offensive to call them cave man. Let's call

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Speaker 1: them prehistoric man.

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Speaker 2: The guy who invented the wheel. Maybe he didn't invent it,

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Speaker 2: Maybe he just found it.

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Speaker 3: That is brilliant. That could be a that could be

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Speaker 3: its own book.

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Speaker 2: Carry's got to finish this Sudoka that.

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Speaker 1: Dad's over here studying. Welcome to the bar geras rendered.

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Speaker 1: Dad got the believer hat on.

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Speaker 3: You bet, man, I dressed up.

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Speaker 1: This could be a whole new marketing campaign for you.

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Speaker 1: We have not talked about waterwitch in a long time,

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Speaker 1: so I don't really know where you stand on it

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Speaker 1: right now. But should you be a believer or I

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Speaker 1: could see like a new T shirt maybe with you

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Speaker 1: holding the pair of witching sticks.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, I could.

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Speaker 1: You know, I could use the extra money.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I charge for photoshopping deals all photoshop misty.

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Speaker 1: Welcome. It's been a while since we've had the crew

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Speaker 1: back together.

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Speaker 2: Itukem.

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Speaker 1: It's a lot of it's a lot of a lot

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Speaker 1: of new coombs here today. But I'm really excited to

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Speaker 1: talk about water witching and let me tell you, and

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Speaker 1: i'd like to hear y'all's thoughts on this. It's super

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Speaker 1: risky to do a podcast like this because if you're

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Speaker 1: a if you're a serious journalist, which I consider myself

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Speaker 1: a serious journalist. I mean that doesn't mean I always

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Speaker 1: talk about serious topics or topics of consequence necessarily, but

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Speaker 1: I take my reporting seriously.

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Speaker 3: If I tell a story, I want it to be accurate.

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Speaker 1: Now I do in the style of storytelling that I

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Speaker 1: do on the Bear Grease podcast. Look, they're journalists that

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Speaker 1: just report the facts and do not insert themselves into it.

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Speaker 1: That's most of the journalism, maybe not most, a percentage

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Speaker 1: of the journalism that we see, like a newscaster on

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Speaker 1: your local news station is basically just going to be

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Speaker 1: like at seven oh one pm tonight, a tractor trailer

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Speaker 1: rig ran into the bridge and ran off the road.

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Speaker 1: Authorities are responding now, and then they might input a

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Speaker 1: little bit of their their personal opinion at the end,

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Speaker 1: like I wonder what happened to him? And it's kind

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Speaker 1: of funny, point me, point ban the kind of journalism

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Speaker 1: I do on Bear Grease. I want to bring people

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Speaker 1: along on my journey to answer questions that I have,

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Speaker 1: you know, and so I try never to put my

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Speaker 1: thumb on the scale. But if I do, I'm telling

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Speaker 1: you that I'm doing it, you know, because that's where

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Speaker 1: authors get in trouble, is when they take research or

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Speaker 1: not get in trouble, but where they just create a

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Speaker 1: book or a piece of work that's not really that

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Speaker 1: doesn't really stand up against criticism because their thumbs on

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Speaker 1: the scale, like they're taking the research and they're trying

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Speaker 1: to push it to become what they want it to be.

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Speaker 1: It's possible that someone could listen to this episode of

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Speaker 1: Burgers and say I did that here. But I really

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Speaker 1: tried to be very upfront with the data that I had,

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Speaker 1: which was a many decades of being exposed to waterwitching, dowsing, rods,

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Speaker 1: these things, and what I know about the research on it,

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Speaker 1: this IDEO motor effect, the limited understanding of the actual

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Speaker 1: science that they did when they did blind tests with

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Speaker 1: water witchers and decided they couldn't find things underground anymore

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Speaker 1: than anybody else.

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Speaker 3: But but.

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Speaker 1: I think it's kind of foolish just to type in

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Speaker 1: Google and say what does What's what fuels dowsers and

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Speaker 1: water witchers and it says ideometer effect and you just go, Okay,

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Speaker 1: well that's what it is. Because I'm not convinced that

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Speaker 1: we're asking right questions. But what what was your impressions

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Speaker 1: of the of the of the podcast? We're just going

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Speaker 1: to jump right in, okay, bear.

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Speaker 5: Now, uh Hey. I found it very intriguing because I've

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Speaker 5: dowsed and water witched and you know, seen this stuff

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Speaker 5: and been involved known people who did it all my life,

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Speaker 5: and uh, to actually get in it and study it

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Speaker 5: and talk about it, I found.

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Speaker 1: It very intriguing.

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Speaker 2: Gary, what was the earliest the earliest time you remember

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Speaker 2: seeing someone do it or doing it yourself.

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Speaker 1: My uncle.

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Speaker 5: Was building a new house in Glenwood, Arkansas, and I

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Speaker 5: was probably a ten year old kid, and he could

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Speaker 5: stick went out, he dug well, and I'm pretty sure

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Speaker 5: it worked. I don't remember the results, but that that

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Speaker 5: was he did it. Yeah, he did it. Yeah, Yeah.

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Speaker 5: And I talked to his daughter about that, and she

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Speaker 5: remembered it. She remembered him doing that.

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Speaker 1: And anyway, I'm I am amazed at the the ubiquitous

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Speaker 1: nature of knowledge of water witching in this part of

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Speaker 1: the world, because I don't think it's that way everywhere. Partly,

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Speaker 1: we talked about it on the podcast. If you live

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Speaker 1: over a major aquifer, which there's a lot of parts

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Speaker 1: of the country, like in the Grand Prairie in East

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Speaker 1: Arkansas on the Mississippi River, there's these giant aquifers, and

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Speaker 1: there's no question that there is water one hundred foot

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Speaker 1: down or sixty foot down or two hundred foot down.

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Speaker 1: You don't even have to guess. And so naturally in

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Speaker 1: those areas there's not as many water witchers, or at

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Speaker 1: least it's not as common because you don't it's not

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Speaker 1: a question that has to be answered.

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Speaker 4: Kind of gravitates towards like mountain culture.

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Speaker 1: A little bit. Well, I think, so I wouldn't have known.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I'm not an expert on this at all,

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Speaker 1: so I really just kind of was answering these questions

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Speaker 1: that I had. So I haven't really pulled the world

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Speaker 1: to be like, where does this happen? But Roger Quinton,

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Speaker 1: my buddy, Roger Quinton, who is just a classic Ozark

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Speaker 1: cattleman over here, just I knew I hadn't talked to

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Speaker 1: Roger in a while, and I had no doubt that

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Speaker 1: Roger would give me good information on water witching. I

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Speaker 1: never heard of talk about it a day in his life.

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Speaker 1: And I called him and I said, Roger, what do

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Speaker 1: you know about water witching? And he was just like, oh, man,

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Speaker 1: I don't know nothing about water witch and barbera bruh.

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Speaker 3: And then he said, now.

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Speaker 1: I did witch a well for Belly last year and

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Speaker 1: we got fifty gallons of water and he and he

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Speaker 1: knew a lot about water witching. And he couldn't believe

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Speaker 1: I wanted to. He couldn't believe I wanted to interview him,

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Speaker 1: because in his mind, he's just kind of he doesn't

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Speaker 1: know much about it, but but he actually does. But

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Speaker 1: what he said that was so just spelled it out,

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Speaker 1: was he he described those four wells within like two

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Speaker 1: hundred and fifty yards of each other. You know, it

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Speaker 1: was on a border of his property. So like one

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Speaker 1: of the wells was on his property, one was on

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Speaker 1: a neighbor, one was on another neighbor. And there was

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Speaker 1: two good wells, one well with natural gas, one sulfur water.

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Speaker 1: And then he said, there's places in the valley he

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Speaker 1: lives where you could drill thousand feet and not get water.

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Speaker 1: And so you kind of start to see culturally socially, like,

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Speaker 1: especially before modern well drilling, stuff like this is a

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Speaker 1: question that the people needed answered that the consequence was

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Speaker 1: often a matter of feet, like if you dug it

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Speaker 1: there or there could make a difference in Karce terrain,

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Speaker 1: It really could. And so you know, so many of

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Speaker 1: these kind of folk remedies answer a fundamental question that

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Speaker 1: people just don't have insight into, you know. But I

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Speaker 1: wanted to say this in the intro to people are

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Speaker 1: going to roast me. I put a I put I

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Speaker 1: put a a video up of Carl Holt, which in

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Speaker 1: water on my Instagram today and that dad to me

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Speaker 1: was like walking into a gauntlet. I knew that the

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Speaker 1: world was going to roast me for the unintelligence of

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Speaker 1: me like believing this stuff just when you throw it

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Speaker 1: to the mass audience. I think if any one of

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Speaker 1: those people listen to my podcast, they would see that

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Speaker 1: I was not trying to answer the question of does

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Speaker 1: water witching work?

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Speaker 2: Right, No, that's not the question.

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Speaker 1: I'm not convinced that it does. No, to be honest

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Speaker 1: with him, I'm not sure that water witching actually you

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Speaker 1: can find underground water. But something moves the sticks, and

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Speaker 1: that's that's the answer to the question.

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Speaker 3: What moves the sticks?

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Speaker 1: Period. So for for all you people out there that

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Speaker 1: commented on my Instagram before you listen to the podcast,

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry that I'm I'm listening.

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Speaker 6: I'm looking at some of these comments. You got a

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Speaker 6: lot of people who believe in it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, there was actually the home team came in.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, he appreciated.

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Speaker 6: And then you got a couple of people who are

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Speaker 6: micro analyzing your guys. Knuckles and hands and width a

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Speaker 6: part at the beginning versus the end, which also is

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Speaker 6: kind of tricky to do when someone's walking towards you.

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Speaker 1: Why I put two different angles and on of the

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Speaker 1: video and I didn't expect it to translate. I truly

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Speaker 1: didn't expect it to translate.

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Speaker 2: I think it's really like try it. Just try it.

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Speaker 2: I mean, grab a couple of coat hangers and go

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Speaker 2: try it. I mean, I keep saying it like I

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Speaker 2: was a skeptic. I thought it was somebody was I

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Speaker 2: thought it was IDEO motor or someone just moving it.

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Speaker 2: But when you put two rods in your hands, tell

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Speaker 2: it moved.

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Speaker 1: Tell what the idio motor effect.

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Speaker 2: The IDEO motor effect is that you you create subconscious movement,

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Speaker 2: like it's literally subconscious. You don't know you're doing it.

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Speaker 2: It looks like something's moving it, but it's actually you, yeah, subconsciously.

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Speaker 1: And if you type in on the internet, what makes

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Speaker 1: witching sticks move on?

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Speaker 3: That pops up very quickly.

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Speaker 1: I think to just accept that as true just because

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Speaker 1: the Google says it is not super super intelligent either.

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Speaker 1: Because I did some research on the audiometer effect and

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Speaker 1: I would love to get an expert. I would fly

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Speaker 1: across the country to talk to the national expert on

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Speaker 1: the audiometer motor audio motor effect. I truly would because

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Speaker 1: basically what you're looking at there, Well, I.

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Speaker 6: Was looking at the things and now I'm looking at

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Speaker 6: ideo motor effect because I think you need have to

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Speaker 6: find it for people who have not did not listen

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Speaker 6: to your thing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, basically, it's where your thoughts trigger. Yeah, so it's

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Speaker 1: a psychological phenomenon where unconscious thoughts and intentions can influence

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Speaker 1: bodily movements and actions, sometimes leading to seemingly inexplicable physical responses.

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Speaker 1: So basically it's saying that the person holding the rods

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Speaker 1: is moving in himself and that that's a that's the

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Speaker 1: first thing that you would think if you saw somebody

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Speaker 1: doing it, it's like, well, yeah, you're just you're just

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Speaker 1: moving it down. If if it is in fact that

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Speaker 1: audio motor effect, that's pretty cool that we can be

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Speaker 1: that unconscious. And it makes me wonder what other areas

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Speaker 1: of life are we completely divorced from reality? Because if

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Speaker 1: you take a pair of clotheshangers out in your yard

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Speaker 1: and walk over your waterline, let me know what happens.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't not work sometimes and does work sometimes.

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Speaker 6: It Wait what are you saying?

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Speaker 1: I mean it's not it works every time?

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Speaker 3: Right, yeah, it works every time?

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Speaker 1: What did you think, Misty.

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Speaker 6: I thought it was really interesting. I did bring my

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Speaker 6: psychology book from my color section.

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Speaker 1: We get we let bear go, Yeah, let go.

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Speaker 4: I'll yeah, I'm sorry, Okay, I'm I'm kind of torn,

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Speaker 4: like they were there were you know, like whenever you

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Speaker 4: say something like that and whenever you know, like I've

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Speaker 4: done it before and the sticks cross. But then also

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Speaker 4: like whenever you really dug into like you know, individual

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Speaker 4: situations where like it worked, sometimes it didn't work. You know,

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Speaker 4: it's kind of fifty to fifty. I'm a little bit torn.

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Speaker 4: But here's what I think. I think that this is

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Speaker 4: maybe one of those things you just don't look too

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Speaker 4: deep into. You just kind of like, you know, it's

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Speaker 4: like you don't have to have the science on it.

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Speaker 4: Like I whenever I was listening to it, I was

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Speaker 4: kind of thinking about like you know, like sometimes whenever

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Speaker 4: you're hunting, there's like a logical way to go about something,

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Speaker 4: but while you're out there, you feel like you should

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Speaker 4: do something else that makes no sense. And I've had

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Speaker 4: a lot of success doing that instead of doing what

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Speaker 4: made sense. And I feel like it's like not, you know,

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Speaker 4: there's no science behind it, Like there's no real logical thinking.

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Speaker 4: And I think on something like this, we're looking too

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Speaker 4: deep into the logic and.

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Speaker 1: Maybe there's there's no logic.

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Speaker 4: Maybe it's just stick's just cross, you know. So I

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Speaker 4: don't know, I'm kind of torn because like, you know,

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Speaker 4: like there is a lot of it that's kind of

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Speaker 4: like you know, it's just kind of like skepticism a

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Speaker 4: little bit or like you know, but yeah, I don't know,

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Speaker 4: I'm kind of torn.

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Speaker 1: Well, and I think that's where that's where I ended

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Speaker 1: too was And you know, if you haven't listened to

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Speaker 1: the episode, that that's the spoiler, is that at the end,

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Speaker 1: I'm really no closer to a a synopsis that that

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Speaker 1: wasn't at the beginning because I would believe the ideo

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Speaker 1: motor effect. If I sat with an expert today and

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Speaker 1: he and I could understand how the sticks and Carl

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Speaker 1: Holt's hands. Hey, I'm a smart fella, smart enough, I

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Speaker 1: promise you anybody that was standing three feet from Carl

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Speaker 1: Holt and saw those sticks, you just would be like

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Speaker 1: they're moving, Like I'm not that gullible that they literally

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Speaker 1: twisted in his hands while his hand And that was

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Speaker 1: my point, is okay, if it is the IDEO motor fact.

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Speaker 1: And again some expert potentially could tell me how this

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Speaker 1: is possible. Now, if the human palm was lined with

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Speaker 1: like snakeskin scales or centipede leg and you could you

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Speaker 1: could hold something in your hand like that turkey leg

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Speaker 1: right there and make it twist. If we could do

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Speaker 1: that physically, I would be like, yeah, it's the IDEO motor.

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Speaker 1: It's it's like him holding that right there and that

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Speaker 1: turkey leg twisting. It's like your hand didn't twist the

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Speaker 1: turkey leg. Do you understand? That's the only part. And

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Speaker 1: I have to get excited about that because that's just

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Speaker 1: what I believe.

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Speaker 2: Here's the thing that throws another wrench into it to me,

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Speaker 2: Like I could see where putting the metal rods in

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Speaker 2: your hands, Like I thought it was interesting what Carl said.

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Speaker 2: He said, I think it's something in someone's body, Yeah

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Speaker 2: that makes it do it. Like I could see there

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Speaker 2: being some kind of an electromagnetic force in there that

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Speaker 2: could cause those metal rods to move. I don't understand

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Speaker 2: how it translates with a green limb.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Well that's what doctor Kinnefect said was that if

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Speaker 1: a physicist were trying to analyze this These are two

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Speaker 1: completely different questions.

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Speaker 2: We need a physicist to go water witch with us

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Speaker 2: and be.

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Speaker 1: Well, they wouldn't. I don't think they'd have any more

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Speaker 1: conclusions than we already have.

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Speaker 2: I mean, but there's always so much skepticism, you know

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Speaker 2: what I mean, they they're they're they're taking people's word

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Speaker 2: for it. I want them to try it. Yeah, let's

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Speaker 2: kidnap ken Effect and take him out.

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Speaker 1: Oh, he would do it. He was He was a

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Speaker 1: cool guy. Quick story about doctor Kenefect. Haven't seen him

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Speaker 1: first of all. This episode I thought just laid out

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Speaker 1: really fun. I mean, part of the other thing. The

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Speaker 1: reason I talked about this is just I'm interested in

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Speaker 1: how culturally people handle water witching, you know how how

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Speaker 1: Carl Holt when I said he knew, He's like, there's

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Speaker 1: no science behind this. Science says it's fake. And I'm like,

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Speaker 1: do you have a problem with that? And I mean

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Speaker 1: he's like, no, I mean it works.

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Speaker 3: That was his thing.

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Speaker 1: That's what That's pretty much what all the people on

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Speaker 1: the podcast said are just like, hey, I don't need

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Speaker 1: science to validate this. It works. But it was really

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Speaker 1: cool here and Mark Findahl, my dear friend up the road,

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Speaker 1: here talk about Seth Timmins, that old man. And now

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Speaker 1: I hope that people understood that what Seth is doing,

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Speaker 1: I think we could say, I mean that's like stretching

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Speaker 1: the rules a lot.

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Speaker 6: Which part of it it.

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Speaker 1: Was a gift or well, he cures would carry them

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Speaker 1: with him, pill bottles with him that were full of

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Speaker 1: whatever he was looking for, and so he would take

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Speaker 1: his he would take his rods, and if he wanted

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Speaker 1: to find sulfur water or well, he actually mainly used

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Speaker 1: his pill bottles for finding natural gas. So he had

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Speaker 1: natural gas sand in one, good water in one. So

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Speaker 1: he basically his rods might indicate and he might not

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Speaker 1: know if it's sulfur water regular water. So he'd put

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Speaker 1: sulfur water in his hand and see if it indicated,

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Speaker 1: and if it did, he'd be like, man, you got

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Speaker 1: sulfur water. And he could also had mechanisms to be

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Speaker 1: able to tell how deep it was and all this stuff.

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Speaker 2: I wonder if he kept a diary or anything of

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Speaker 2: all his water witching, right, because talking to Colin Eaton,

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Speaker 2: I mean he's like, he's like, I do this five

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Speaker 2: times a week, and I can do it with one

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Speaker 2: hundred percent certainty.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, Yeah, it's it's tricky because when you when you

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Speaker 6: hear people who do stuff, and I understand all the reasons,

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Speaker 6: but when you you hear people I'm kind of a

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Speaker 6: bear where I've had enough experiences and I think that

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Speaker 6: there's you know, there's a natural world and and and

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Speaker 6: that has laws that govern it, but that's not the

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Speaker 6: only world we interface with, and and I just think

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Speaker 6: that when you I don't know, I tend to on

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Speaker 6: this kind of stuff that has this many different potential

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Speaker 6: potential ways to measure it in any Yeah, I tend

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Speaker 6: to go with the people who have experienced over because

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Speaker 6: I don't trust the lab in that scenario. I know

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Speaker 6: it's not going to work. I know you cannot measure

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Speaker 6: some things in a lab because the circumstances the lab

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Speaker 6: are not the same. But when I hear someone say,

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Speaker 6: I've done this a thousand times in the last three years,

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Speaker 6: I'm going to go with what that guy says, because

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Speaker 6: I trust that more than this lab experience of just

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Speaker 6: at working in social science and even in physical science,

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Speaker 6: it labs have some limitations.

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Speaker 1: Doctor kin Effect's story was so spot on when he

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Speaker 1: gave the example of the Russian lab that they thought

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Speaker 1: it was fraudulent because they couldn't replicate this thing anywhere.

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Speaker 1: And they go there and they watch what they do,

386
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Speaker 1: and the sky, you know, puts this ear grease. He

387
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Speaker 1: runs the wire behind his ear.

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Speaker 2: It's ear grease, not bear grease, right right, And.

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Speaker 1: That is what.

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Speaker 6: There is a similar podcast this in the Soviet in

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Speaker 6: Russia called ear Grease.

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Speaker 1: That's that is what. And I talked to doctor Kenfect

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Speaker 1: for over an hour and you heard like seventeen minutes

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Speaker 1: or maybe like nine minutes of him talking. And that's baseasically,

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Speaker 1: we just went round and round about like what exactly

396
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Speaker 1: are we studying? Because the difference between Seth Timmins born

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Speaker 1: in nineteen twelve that carries around pill bottles sulfur water

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Speaker 1: and good water and saltwater, and Colin Deaton, who works

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Speaker 1: up here at this excavation company in northwest Arkansas, that

400
00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:24,159
Speaker 1: which is utility lines, you might as well be comparing,

401
00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:29,080
Speaker 1: you know, an apple farmer to a boat captain, you know,

402
00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:33,680
Speaker 1: on the Atlantic Ocean, like they're just doing different things, yep,

403
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Speaker 1: completely different, and yet we find these correlation points. And

404
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Speaker 1: you know, the skeptic inside if I was playing devil's advocate.

405
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Speaker 1: I would say it's possible that somebody like a Colin

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Speaker 1: would be way more in tune with the world than

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Speaker 1: he even realizes. When he steps on to a job site.

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Speaker 1: He maybe doesn't subconsciously know, but he's seen so many

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Speaker 1: that he knows where that water line is, right, I mean,

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Speaker 1: and and so the ideo motor effect comes into practice

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Speaker 1: and confirms what he thinks, and most of the time

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Speaker 1: he's right. I'm not saying I believe that. I'm just

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Speaker 1: saying that could be sad, and you would have to

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Speaker 1: kind of be like maybe, because I do think that

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Speaker 1: humans are masters, and we learned this when we were

416
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Speaker 1: living in the wild. But we're masters of finding correlations

417
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Speaker 1: that help us be successful. I mean, we're masters at

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Speaker 1: I mean, we had to just look for anything that

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Speaker 1: we could to give us any insight into the future,

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Speaker 1: like bear grease. Like right here, I keep this on

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00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:54,440
Speaker 1: this jar bear grease on my windowsill, and you see

422
00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:58,600
Speaker 1: it's bisected. It separates in this clear, clear olive oil

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00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:02,359
Speaker 1: colored liquid and then this pak thicker liquid. In the

424
00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:06,920
Speaker 1: Indians in the Southwest United States used to put bear

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Speaker 1: oil in the scraped bladder of a deer. So that

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Speaker 1: it was translucent, and they forecasted the weather with bar

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Speaker 1: oil because barreil just ever so slightly changes with barometric pressure.

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Speaker 1: And for me to think that I could do that

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Speaker 1: as well as them, it's kind of crazy. Because they

430
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Speaker 1: lived in a world that didn't have the weather app

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Speaker 1: on their phone, that they didn't have a shelter over

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Speaker 1: their head quite like I have, and air conditioning. Their

433
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Speaker 1: entire existence was based upon them being able to have

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Speaker 1: some certainty about the future. And man, I just feel

435
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Speaker 1: like they were dialed in a way that we wouldn't be.

436
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Speaker 1: I mean, this temple that we live inside of, this body,

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Speaker 1: I think is capable of so much more than what

438
00:25:57,720 --> 00:26:01,359
Speaker 1: a modern human asks of it in terms of these

439
00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:07,479
Speaker 1: these things that that might not line up with all

440
00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:10,080
Speaker 1: the modern laws of physics.

441
00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:16,160
Speaker 6: I agree, I agree.

442
00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:24,480
Speaker 1: What about so misty doctor Newcomb here has brought out

443
00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:26,480
Speaker 1: her physics textbook.

444
00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:30,320
Speaker 6: Not physics, psychology, psychology different, different, because that's the question,

445
00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:30,679
Speaker 6: isn't it.

446
00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:33,680
Speaker 3: Is this a psychology question or a physics question?

447
00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:37,800
Speaker 6: And and you know, we were we were talking about

448
00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:39,800
Speaker 6: this all the time as Clay would go interview people.

449
00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:42,280
Speaker 6: And I think this makes a little more sense with

450
00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:44,199
Speaker 6: the metal kind of like what you were saying, the

451
00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:47,160
Speaker 6: metal ride versus the wood. But one of the things

452
00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:49,720
Speaker 6: I thought about, and I've thought about this in a

453
00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:52,120
Speaker 6: couple a couple of different times, and I'm not really

454
00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:54,400
Speaker 6: an expert, so I'm just kind of putting it out there.

455
00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:57,480
Speaker 6: But I just remember, in you know, your intro to

456
00:26:57,520 --> 00:27:02,080
Speaker 6: psychology class in college, they talk about neurons and synapses

457
00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:05,359
Speaker 6: and like, when you have a thought, there's actually and

458
00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:07,159
Speaker 6: I was gonna try to explain it, but I decided

459
00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:12,919
Speaker 6: it would be too boring. And but when you have

460
00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:15,880
Speaker 6: a thought, like every time you when you focus your mind,

461
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:20,399
Speaker 6: there's a chemical reaction and a an electrical reaction happening

462
00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:23,560
Speaker 6: in your brain. I mean, I mean, that's that is

463
00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:26,480
Speaker 6: just truth. And and it's kind of kind of tricky

464
00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:29,640
Speaker 6: to explain. But well for someone like me who doesn't

465
00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:32,520
Speaker 6: explain it all the time, a psychology professor could probably

466
00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:36,400
Speaker 6: explain it very easily. But but the you know, those

467
00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:41,880
Speaker 6: synapses get get stronger the more you do something, and

468
00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:45,640
Speaker 6: and I'm just just and and and those those things

469
00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:47,840
Speaker 6: speed up. So to me, one of the things I

470
00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:52,159
Speaker 6: wonder is, and I I've heard people describe water witching

471
00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:55,879
Speaker 6: as when they concentrated hard and when that guy squeezed

472
00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:58,440
Speaker 6: real hard. And it's difficult for me not to see

473
00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:03,280
Speaker 6: how there might not be a chemical electromagnetic that reaction

474
00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:06,359
Speaker 6: that's happening in their brain when they do that, creating

475
00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:08,840
Speaker 6: some type of reaction with what's in the ground.

476
00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:12,480
Speaker 1: I'm oh, so you're saying.

477
00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:18,320
Speaker 2: The electro the elect the electro the process of the

478
00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:24,080
Speaker 2: neurons firing produces an electrical impulse that could be interacting

479
00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:27,760
Speaker 2: with whatever it is in the ground.

480
00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:30,479
Speaker 1: What makes I thought you were going to say that

481
00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:31,880
Speaker 1: was the ideo motor effect.

482
00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:34,720
Speaker 6: Well, no, I don't think. I mean I think that

483
00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:37,040
Speaker 6: what if you're what if your body because your body's

484
00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:40,040
Speaker 6: connected to the ground, what if there are actual electro

485
00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:44,000
Speaker 6: magnetic things happening. Yeah, because there is an electrical charge

486
00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:46,560
Speaker 6: when you think a thought. Yeah, and the more the

487
00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:50,360
Speaker 6: more you think something this, the stronger those the faster

488
00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:51,240
Speaker 6: those charges happen.

489
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:55,440
Speaker 2: So, like you're saying, if you believe it, it could

490
00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:59,000
Speaker 2: be more. Yeah, lausible that.

491
00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:02,160
Speaker 6: Yeah, But I am not an expert. I'm not like

492
00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:05,040
Speaker 6: a psychiatrist. I'm not a psychology professor. This was my

493
00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:07,800
Speaker 6: intro to science, my intro to psychology class that I

494
00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:10,640
Speaker 6: get that information from. And I'm just saying, but why

495
00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:14,080
Speaker 6: wouldn't how why would that not have some impact that

496
00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:17,200
Speaker 6: electrical if there is an electrical charge when you focus

497
00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:19,760
Speaker 6: on something and there is a chemical churge.

498
00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:22,840
Speaker 1: That's a good point. Well, but that also could be

499
00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:27,960
Speaker 1: the mechanism of the audio motor effect is that when

500
00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:32,400
Speaker 1: you concentrate and think about it, that it produces electrical

501
00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:38,560
Speaker 1: charge that makes you do involuntary movements. But but I

502
00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:41,400
Speaker 1: see exactly what you're saying, and it really can't be

503
00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:46,480
Speaker 1: denied that the power of human belief or faith, even

504
00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:49,640
Speaker 1: people that don't believe in in the in the traditional

505
00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:52,640
Speaker 1: idea of like a biblical faith, like faith in a God,

506
00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:55,440
Speaker 1: that would that was within a spiritual faith in a

507
00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:59,200
Speaker 1: spiritual realm. You know, basically there would be a group

508
00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:01,480
Speaker 1: of people that would think all that there is is

509
00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:04,200
Speaker 1: what can be seen with the eyes and measured by physics.

510
00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:10,479
Speaker 1: So but even even those people will say, some crazy

511
00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:15,680
Speaker 1: stuff happens when people believe. Yeah, you know, I actually

512
00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:19,400
Speaker 1: heard I'm thinking of an actual conversation and a person

513
00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:21,320
Speaker 1: that I heard say that that It shocked me when

514
00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:22,080
Speaker 1: they said.

515
00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:24,320
Speaker 3: It because they were like Oh yeah, crazy.

516
00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:26,880
Speaker 1: Stuff happens when people just think it's going to happen,

517
00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:31,640
Speaker 1: which is which is interesting. But here's something that I

518
00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:35,200
Speaker 1: did with Carl. I had actually never been in the

519
00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:38,120
Speaker 1: presence of somebody that used a used.

520
00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:40,320
Speaker 3: A fork stick to witch water.

521
00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:43,520
Speaker 1: All my experience pretty much was finding water lines and

522
00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:47,600
Speaker 1: stuff and utility lines with with the witch and rods.

523
00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:53,280
Speaker 1: When Carl did it, I said, does it work if

524
00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:56,160
Speaker 1: you don't grip the stick real tight? And he was

525
00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:59,240
Speaker 1: like no, and he walked over it just holding it

526
00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:04,120
Speaker 1: real light and it it didn't bob down. And if

527
00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:08,800
Speaker 1: you took if you took a if you took a jig,

528
00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:11,280
Speaker 1: like if you had a remote control car with a

529
00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:14,840
Speaker 1: stick on it that could hold the witching sticks and

530
00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:19,160
Speaker 1: you drove that remote control car around, I'm quite certain

531
00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:22,600
Speaker 1: the rods wouldn't move. And that's why Carl said, I

532
00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:25,240
Speaker 1: think it has something to do with your body, which

533
00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:27,360
Speaker 1: someone who is trying to build a case for the

534
00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:30,480
Speaker 1: IDEO motor, in which they do right, you wouldn't have

535
00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:31,960
Speaker 1: to try to build the case. You would say, well,

536
00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:35,840
Speaker 1: obviously it's IDEO motor because you have to be holding

537
00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:38,719
Speaker 1: it for your body to subconsciously move and again, the

538
00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:42,440
Speaker 1: only thing that's keeping me from fully buying the IDEO

539
00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:45,840
Speaker 1: motor thing is I just don't understand the physics of

540
00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:49,440
Speaker 1: how if I griped that turkey leg that hard, that

541
00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:51,640
Speaker 1: that turkey leg can twist in my hand and it's

542
00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:54,600
Speaker 1: me subconsciously doing it. Now if I turned my hand, yeah,

543
00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:58,920
Speaker 1: I'm telling you the wood bent with Carl like it

544
00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:01,479
Speaker 1: it like it like shook.

545
00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:05,120
Speaker 6: And the other side of that is, if this is

546
00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:08,120
Speaker 6: an IDEO motor thing, how do you know where the

547
00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:10,959
Speaker 6: water is? To think that that's where the water is?

548
00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:15,960
Speaker 1: Well, now, that is where all the hocus pocus potentially

549
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:18,080
Speaker 1: comes because like when me and Carl walked up in

550
00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:20,560
Speaker 1: the backyard, we knew that there was a well there,

551
00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:23,840
Speaker 1: so our brains were like, there's water there, So it

552
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:29,840
Speaker 1: would clearly if it was fake, would signal there because

553
00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:33,640
Speaker 1: we knew it. If you were a water witcher walk

554
00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:36,000
Speaker 1: if I told y'all want to well in this acre

555
00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:39,920
Speaker 1: land and you start walking circles, where were gonna say, Josh.

556
00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:42,600
Speaker 2: Well, I just that whole thing. Those witch and rods.

557
00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:46,000
Speaker 2: I ordered those witch and rods right there, Yeah, and

558
00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:49,200
Speaker 2: I took them out. I took them out because I

559
00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:52,200
Speaker 2: knew where my water line was. And I walked over

560
00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:54,560
Speaker 2: the water line and I was like, they are not moving.

561
00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:57,360
Speaker 2: And I walked back forth. And I went out today

562
00:32:57,360 --> 00:33:00,680
Speaker 2: and realized my water line is actually not there. It's

563
00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:03,719
Speaker 2: in a different spot. Really yeah, And I couldn't get

564
00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:06,280
Speaker 2: him to move. And when I walked over my water line,

565
00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:06,720
Speaker 2: they moved.

566
00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:10,280
Speaker 1: Oh that's that's a blind test right there.

567
00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:13,160
Speaker 2: I thought it was my water line because I have

568
00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:15,720
Speaker 2: a box in my front yard and I went over

569
00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:17,560
Speaker 2: and looked at it. I'm like, why are these not crossing?

570
00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:19,479
Speaker 2: And I looked at it and realized it was an

571
00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:21,880
Speaker 2: AT and T box. It was just my phone line.

572
00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:33,520
Speaker 1: So I was like, well, you know, there's there there

573
00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:37,640
Speaker 1: there just as many people is is swear that it

574
00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:42,240
Speaker 1: works like these under guys that dig underground utilities and stuff.

575
00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:45,720
Speaker 1: I have a good friend over in Oklahoma. I won't

576
00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:49,600
Speaker 1: say his name. He knows who he is. He he

577
00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:55,520
Speaker 1: laughs at me for for even acknowledging water witching. And

578
00:33:55,560 --> 00:33:58,160
Speaker 1: he he digs. He digs for a living on.

579
00:33:58,120 --> 00:33:58,960
Speaker 3: A big excavator.

580
00:33:58,960 --> 00:33:59,880
Speaker 2: And he doesn't whitch.

581
00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:02,120
Speaker 3: No, he thinks he's just like Clay.

582
00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:04,080
Speaker 1: I used to think you were smart or you know,

583
00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:06,200
Speaker 1: he's like I used to think you were normal or whatever.

584
00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:06,400
Speaker 4: You know.

585
00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:08,319
Speaker 3: He's just like, I can't believe you're this.

586
00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:11,400
Speaker 2: I've hardly run into an excavator that doesn't do it.

587
00:34:11,680 --> 00:34:15,680
Speaker 1: Yeah really yeah, yeah yeah.

588
00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:17,920
Speaker 2: Most of them keep witching rods in the truck.

589
00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:23,239
Speaker 1: Well okay, but here's the thing too. Anybody that that

590
00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:28,200
Speaker 1: just is adamant and is upset about how stupid we are,

591
00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:31,080
Speaker 1: that's not done it. I have like zero exactly. It's

592
00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:35,560
Speaker 1: just like, okay, whatever, dude, you've not you've not felt

593
00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:42,799
Speaker 1: it in your hands and bear sticks move?

594
00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:46,879
Speaker 2: Have you done it? Yeah? Did you feel the sticks move?

595
00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:47,480
Speaker 1: Yeah?

596
00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:49,960
Speaker 4: And I've honestly done it, like since I was a

597
00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:53,319
Speaker 4: little kid, and I never even questioned it until now.

598
00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:55,600
Speaker 1: I just thought, yeah, you just walk over the waterline.

599
00:34:56,239 --> 00:34:57,200
Speaker 2: Sticks moved out.

600
00:34:57,560 --> 00:34:59,520
Speaker 4: Then whenever I was listening to this podcast, I was like,

601
00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:01,760
Speaker 4: wait a minute, this is I've been too crazy.

602
00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:06,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know who duped us? The believer? Do you

603
00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:11,759
Speaker 1: remember when we I vividly remember when we went and

604
00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:14,800
Speaker 1: witched And this is where it just starts sounding kookie

605
00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:17,560
Speaker 1: as it can be. But when we went and witch

606
00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:18,520
Speaker 1: those graves that.

607
00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:21,560
Speaker 2: If it looks cookie and smells cook cookie is probably cookie.

608
00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:21,879
Speaker 1: Yeah.

609
00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:28,440
Speaker 7: Yeah, you know, Uh, you got an earth and it's

610
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:31,320
Speaker 7: made up different ways, and you put something in the ground,

611
00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:33,200
Speaker 7: an old car, a grave.

612
00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:34,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, and all.

613
00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:37,759
Speaker 5: These forces that that I've read about that you came

614
00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:43,040
Speaker 5: up with here, gravity and wisdom and magnitude, all we're

615
00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:46,800
Speaker 5: conductor of that. And you know, you might have a

616
00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:49,279
Speaker 5: cookbook in your hand and for some reason, that's a

617
00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:53,560
Speaker 5: great conductor. It just happens that that limb really is

618
00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:55,840
Speaker 5: a great conductor. They say it needs to be green

619
00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:59,200
Speaker 5: or helps to be green, certain type of tree. You

620
00:35:59,239 --> 00:36:00,320
Speaker 5: take a metal odd.

621
00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:02,680
Speaker 2: I mean, we need to do better for your barefoot.

622
00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:07,760
Speaker 5: But uh, you find water because there's no old car bodies,

623
00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:09,400
Speaker 5: there's no graves in the area.

624
00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:10,080
Speaker 7: You know.

625
00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:12,520
Speaker 1: You find water because it's everywhere.

626
00:36:13,040 --> 00:36:15,439
Speaker 5: But if you if you were in a cemetery trying

627
00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:18,040
Speaker 5: to find water, you wouldn't have much luck.

628
00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:19,360
Speaker 1: You're gonna find graves.

629
00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:21,400
Speaker 3: Hey, your cars beeping?

630
00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:23,120
Speaker 5: I hit a button, didn't.

631
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:26,920
Speaker 1: I Made'll be there in a minute.

632
00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:28,680
Speaker 2: He just doused for his bronco.

633
00:36:29,719 --> 00:36:32,759
Speaker 1: No, you know, there's just so many variables. It's hard

634
00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:36,800
Speaker 1: to it's hard to uh, let you get it. Yeah,

635
00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:42,799
Speaker 1: now that is witchcraft. Yeah, be able through their able

636
00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:43,480
Speaker 1: to start your car.

637
00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:48,120
Speaker 2: Yep, witchcraft is all a matter of time?

638
00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:50,360
Speaker 1: What do you mean of age?

639
00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:53,840
Speaker 2: That would have been witchcraft one hundred years ago? Yeah,

640
00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:55,719
Speaker 2: and now it's normal. The fact that we can pick

641
00:36:55,800 --> 00:36:57,719
Speaker 2: up a cell phone and I can call all the

642
00:36:57,760 --> 00:36:59,680
Speaker 2: way across the world, that's witchcraft.

643
00:37:00,560 --> 00:37:03,960
Speaker 6: I disagree with you, Josh one hundred years ago, Okay,

644
00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:06,719
Speaker 6: but I don't believe that witchcraft is all a matter

645
00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:07,200
Speaker 6: of time.

646
00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:12,520
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. What she said is that there is such

647
00:37:12,520 --> 00:37:15,640
Speaker 1: a I would I would say that there there is.

648
00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:20,359
Speaker 2: I'm using the term loosely like perception about perception of

649
00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:22,239
Speaker 2: what is supernatural and what.

650
00:37:22,239 --> 00:37:24,600
Speaker 1: Is This is a good place for me to say

651
00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:28,200
Speaker 1: that my whole life, I've been quite uncomfortable with the

652
00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:33,120
Speaker 1: naming of witching for water, Like I don't, I don't

653
00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:35,400
Speaker 1: play around with and I don't think anybody in this

654
00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:39,040
Speaker 1: room does, Like we don't. It's a market major marketing

655
00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:43,840
Speaker 1: blunder of there that that they called it witch And

656
00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:46,200
Speaker 1: that's the reason I feel comfortable even talking about this,

657
00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:48,239
Speaker 1: Like I if like I don't want to talk about

658
00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:53,560
Speaker 1: the occult or anything weird like that, like uninterested. My

659
00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:56,200
Speaker 1: interest in this is that I believe that this is

660
00:37:56,239 --> 00:38:01,080
Speaker 1: not that, and I believe that most people don't.

661
00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:03,560
Speaker 2: Going back to the source, Gary, when your uncle did that,

662
00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:05,720
Speaker 2: did he call it witching? Did he call it doubtsing?

663
00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:06,760
Speaker 5: Witchy?

664
00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:07,520
Speaker 2: Nothing?

665
00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:08,520
Speaker 3: I think witching.

666
00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:14,840
Speaker 1: Yeah. I threw in the little tidbit that doctor Knefect

667
00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:19,560
Speaker 1: told me about the it's one of his thesis students

668
00:38:20,239 --> 00:38:23,680
Speaker 1: that is doing a project right now. And I actually

669
00:38:23,719 --> 00:38:26,279
Speaker 1: tried to reach out to the kid, and I'm not

670
00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:30,440
Speaker 1: sure what happened, but they can, as I understood it,

671
00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:33,840
Speaker 1: they can detect a grave with It's kind of funny.

672
00:38:34,120 --> 00:38:42,439
Speaker 1: A gravometer a gravity. That's that's what I need. Ave found.

673
00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:43,799
Speaker 2: I got a little device.

674
00:38:43,520 --> 00:38:48,200
Speaker 1: Here, witching sticks. No, I'm pretty sure that's what they

675
00:38:48,239 --> 00:38:55,200
Speaker 1: called a gravometer that measures gravity. And and he they

676
00:38:55,320 --> 00:39:00,319
Speaker 1: said that you can find a grave because the gravity

677
00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:04,320
Speaker 1: is slightly different where there's a hollow space under the ground,

678
00:39:04,360 --> 00:39:09,319
Speaker 1: because gravity is based upon mass, so gravity and so

679
00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:11,680
Speaker 1: like if there's a hollow space, but he said, it

680
00:39:11,719 --> 00:39:15,759
Speaker 1: would be such an imperceptible amount of gravity that it

681
00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:21,920
Speaker 1: would be almost impossible for your sticks to move that much. So,

682
00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:26,400
Speaker 1: you know, so in his understanding of physics, he's like, no,

683
00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:30,479
Speaker 1: it's not gravity, but when you walk over a grave

684
00:39:30,520 --> 00:39:34,840
Speaker 1: there is actually less gravity. He also told me something random,

685
00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:40,160
Speaker 1: but there's a place in Arkansas that the gravity is

686
00:39:40,520 --> 00:39:46,880
Speaker 1: like notably different than everywhere else less. There's like a

687
00:39:46,960 --> 00:39:49,640
Speaker 1: like a like a I don't I don't even want

688
00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:51,719
Speaker 1: to say how far My impression was. It was like

689
00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:55,040
Speaker 1: a twenty mile stretch, very narrow, like a like a

690
00:39:55,080 --> 00:40:00,960
Speaker 1: crack almost where gravity is like quite a bit different.

691
00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:02,600
Speaker 6: Is it around the fault?

692
00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:06,480
Speaker 1: No, I don't think so. I don't think so, but

693
00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:08,680
Speaker 1: it was. It was somewhere in the washtalls down here,

694
00:40:09,160 --> 00:40:11,680
Speaker 1: and uh just just interesting, you know, just like there's

695
00:40:11,719 --> 00:40:15,520
Speaker 1: some weird stuff going on out there that's that's hard

696
00:40:15,520 --> 00:40:17,400
Speaker 1: to explain. Yeah, and interesting.

697
00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:19,960
Speaker 4: This did bring up a lot of questions for me

698
00:40:20,040 --> 00:40:23,200
Speaker 4: about like how water is actually like how it works,

699
00:40:23,239 --> 00:40:24,960
Speaker 4: because I've always been under the depression that like a

700
00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:28,600
Speaker 4: mountain has an aquafer in it or like they're you know,

701
00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:32,200
Speaker 4: like there's kind of like an aquifer all like anywhere

702
00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:34,560
Speaker 4: you go, there's an aquifer here, because like you think

703
00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:36,720
Speaker 4: about like springs you know, coming out of a mountain,

704
00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:39,279
Speaker 4: like right, you just think that like there's you know

705
00:40:39,360 --> 00:40:42,560
Speaker 4: a big aquafer behind it. But if there's like you know,

706
00:40:42,600 --> 00:40:45,440
Speaker 4: like these little pockets where there's water that.

707
00:40:45,560 --> 00:40:46,080
Speaker 1: I don't know it.

708
00:40:46,280 --> 00:40:50,200
Speaker 4: It kind of made me like question what I believed

709
00:40:50,239 --> 00:40:52,920
Speaker 4: about how water was stored in the ground. And then

710
00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:55,520
Speaker 4: another interesting thing was, like you know you think about

711
00:40:55,560 --> 00:40:58,640
Speaker 4: like whenever you come across like a like a well,

712
00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:00,640
Speaker 4: you know out in the woods. You know, whenever you

713
00:41:00,680 --> 00:41:04,120
Speaker 4: find those like fifteen foot deep like homesteaders, well, like

714
00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:05,400
Speaker 4: how they always have water.

715
00:41:05,239 --> 00:41:05,800
Speaker 1: In the bottom.

716
00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:08,440
Speaker 4: Yeah, but like we have to drill like, you know,

717
00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:11,520
Speaker 4: a couple hundred feet now to hit water, like you know,

718
00:41:11,560 --> 00:41:13,440
Speaker 4: to find a well, and that's like.

719
00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:15,400
Speaker 1: A twelve foot well, but it has water in the

720
00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:18,960
Speaker 1: bottom of it somehow, Right. So I'm just really confused

721
00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:22,359
Speaker 1: about water works. Well, the answer would have to be

722
00:41:23,120 --> 00:41:26,800
Speaker 1: spoken to by geologists. I don't I don't really understand

723
00:41:26,880 --> 00:41:32,200
Speaker 1: underground water, but I know that imagine imagine here in

724
00:41:32,239 --> 00:41:36,160
Speaker 1: the Ozarks, there's these like big flat limestone benches and stuff.

725
00:41:37,200 --> 00:41:41,000
Speaker 1: Imagine a mountain and there's like layers of limestone, So

726
00:41:41,160 --> 00:41:45,799
Speaker 1: rainwater seeps into the ground and then kind of hovers

727
00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:49,840
Speaker 1: over the top. They can't go through the limestone, so

728
00:41:49,880 --> 00:41:52,280
Speaker 1: it just kind of like sits in the soil profile

729
00:41:52,680 --> 00:41:56,960
Speaker 1: above the limestone, and it's probably gradually moving one direction

730
00:41:57,120 --> 00:41:59,040
Speaker 1: or the other. And you drill a well down there

731
00:41:59,080 --> 00:42:01,880
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden create a cavity. And then

732
00:42:02,640 --> 00:42:06,680
Speaker 1: water is attracted to a cavity, it's attracted to a

733
00:42:06,760 --> 00:42:09,720
Speaker 1: space that gravity's pulling it down in. So the shaft

734
00:42:09,760 --> 00:42:14,480
Speaker 1: of your well, so you would drill through imagine imagine

735
00:42:14,480 --> 00:42:18,479
Speaker 1: a slab of limestone and there's water standing on top

736
00:42:18,520 --> 00:42:21,080
Speaker 1: of it in the soil profile, and then you drill

737
00:42:21,120 --> 00:42:25,200
Speaker 1: one hundred foot well through that. The water goes down

738
00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:30,439
Speaker 1: into the well, goes and fills up. And basically every

739
00:42:30,440 --> 00:42:32,960
Speaker 1: time you put want water out of that well, there's

740
00:42:33,000 --> 00:42:36,480
Speaker 1: well there because it's always sucking water from that kind

741
00:42:36,520 --> 00:42:41,279
Speaker 1: of vein of water. It's you know, that's just anecdotal

742
00:42:41,320 --> 00:42:44,800
Speaker 1: knowledge of how it works now. Aquifers that are literally

743
00:42:44,880 --> 00:42:51,360
Speaker 1: like jicks lakes of water underneath the surface. But the

744
00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:55,279
Speaker 1: hand dug wells, though, as I understand that, you you know,

745
00:42:55,360 --> 00:42:58,759
Speaker 1: you've obviously got to hit water within the depth that

746
00:42:58,800 --> 00:42:59,280
Speaker 1: you dig.

747
00:42:59,480 --> 00:43:02,799
Speaker 3: So most the hand dug wells were dug on springs.

748
00:43:03,680 --> 00:43:06,880
Speaker 1: Like you wouldn't just go out and just well, you

749
00:43:06,880 --> 00:43:09,960
Speaker 1: would have, you'd probably have some knowledge of you know,

750
00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:12,160
Speaker 1: that guy over there dug and he hit water at

751
00:43:12,200 --> 00:43:14,480
Speaker 1: fifteen feet, So if we dig a fifteen foot well here,

752
00:43:14,520 --> 00:43:18,600
Speaker 1: it will probably hit water. But they also maybe got

753
00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:21,560
Speaker 1: in places where there was a seep or something. And

754
00:43:21,600 --> 00:43:23,960
Speaker 1: then if you dig a four foot by four foot

755
00:43:24,280 --> 00:43:27,279
Speaker 1: fifteen foot shaft, it's just going to fill up with

756
00:43:27,400 --> 00:43:30,680
Speaker 1: water over time. It's just gonna be like a storage tank.

757
00:43:31,120 --> 00:43:34,840
Speaker 1: Does that makes sense a cistern? Yeah. We dug a

758
00:43:34,880 --> 00:43:37,400
Speaker 1: well here on our property when we first moved here

759
00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:40,080
Speaker 1: because we didn't have city water. We went down three

760
00:43:40,160 --> 00:43:43,040
Speaker 1: hundred feet and only got like six gallons a minute,

761
00:43:43,080 --> 00:43:48,560
Speaker 1: but only have about like a seventy gallon reservoir because

762
00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:52,319
Speaker 1: we didn't hit water for a long time. Wells, this

763
00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:53,719
Speaker 1: is boring. Did you wait for that?

764
00:43:53,760 --> 00:43:55,640
Speaker 3: Well? No, you just.

765
00:43:55,719 --> 00:43:56,799
Speaker 2: That's the problem.

766
00:43:57,280 --> 00:44:00,279
Speaker 1: There was the problem. Yeah, yeah, yeah I did. I

767
00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:03,880
Speaker 1: didn't witch it. I didn't get good water, but we

768
00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:05,400
Speaker 1: lived off that for years.

769
00:44:05,680 --> 00:44:08,000
Speaker 6: Yeah, it wasn't terrible. I mean, it was a family off.

770
00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:09,840
Speaker 1: To our house and we'd have to be like, you

771
00:44:09,920 --> 00:44:11,839
Speaker 1: want a glass of water, you should bring your own water.

772
00:44:12,080 --> 00:44:14,120
Speaker 6: No, it was not that bad. If we were a

773
00:44:14,120 --> 00:44:16,600
Speaker 6: family of six that lived off it for years. It

774
00:44:16,640 --> 00:44:19,640
Speaker 6: did seem like in August when we would have huge

775
00:44:19,719 --> 00:44:22,480
Speaker 6: gatherings we would run out of water. We would, but

776
00:44:22,520 --> 00:44:24,760
Speaker 6: we would have you know, probably fifty two one hundred

777
00:44:24,760 --> 00:44:28,400
Speaker 6: people here, and that you'd have to put intense pressure

778
00:44:28,440 --> 00:44:32,520
Speaker 6: on it. It was decent for everyday life. It was really,

779
00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:37,640
Speaker 6: it was very rare. I googled just now to see

780
00:44:38,239 --> 00:44:43,000
Speaker 6: if people in Arizona water witch because what bears questions

781
00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:46,160
Speaker 6: you were talking about in the Delta. They don't really

782
00:44:46,400 --> 00:44:48,160
Speaker 6: because you know, you just stick something in and you

783
00:44:48,160 --> 00:44:51,799
Speaker 6: get water and then the mountains. But I was just

784
00:44:51,840 --> 00:44:55,480
Speaker 6: in Arizona. It's super arid, dry flat in most spots.

785
00:44:56,000 --> 00:45:00,120
Speaker 6: And we got a Tucson woman waterwitching in the news

786
00:45:00,480 --> 00:45:05,120
Speaker 6: in Arizona. Yeah, and several so, but rural in rural areas,

787
00:45:05,440 --> 00:45:06,080
Speaker 6: not cities.

788
00:45:06,760 --> 00:45:13,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, interesting any water you know, my father in law,

789
00:45:13,320 --> 00:45:18,080
Speaker 1: Steve talked about, uh, water witcher's in Florida. Oh really yeah,

790
00:45:18,200 --> 00:45:20,560
Speaker 1: and and water's everywhere down there. But he said he

791
00:45:20,640 --> 00:45:23,240
Speaker 1: remembered them like trying to just find the best spot

792
00:45:24,360 --> 00:45:26,000
Speaker 1: using using sticks, you.

793
00:45:25,920 --> 00:45:27,959
Speaker 2: Know, you go ten feet instead of twelve feet.

794
00:45:28,160 --> 00:45:34,320
Speaker 6: Yeah, we got a water witcher in Kansas, people asking

795
00:45:34,400 --> 00:45:39,600
Speaker 6: on Facebook for an experienced water witcher in Prescott, Arizona. M. Sorry,

796
00:45:39,640 --> 00:45:46,120
Speaker 6: I'm kind of going down the rabbit trail here. I'm curious. Yeah, Oregon.

797
00:45:46,320 --> 00:45:51,759
Speaker 6: So sorry, I'll stop, but they're all there, all yeah, yeah, yeah.

798
00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:53,800
Speaker 2: How do you feel about how do you feel about

799
00:45:54,200 --> 00:45:56,279
Speaker 2: whether a witcher should take money or not? You think

800
00:45:56,360 --> 00:45:59,279
Speaker 2: that affects their efficacy.

801
00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:01,520
Speaker 6: I think they should take money.

802
00:46:01,719 --> 00:46:02,879
Speaker 2: You think they should take come out.

803
00:46:03,120 --> 00:46:06,520
Speaker 6: I think anytime you spend, you spend time, pay the

804
00:46:06,560 --> 00:46:08,560
Speaker 6: person what they were. I think they're asking them to come.

805
00:46:08,719 --> 00:46:11,600
Speaker 2: I think you should give them a token of gratitude,

806
00:46:11,719 --> 00:46:16,120
Speaker 2: not money, like a blaf of bread or some farm.

807
00:46:16,160 --> 00:46:19,279
Speaker 6: You're only you only think bartering is acceptable.

808
00:46:19,320 --> 00:46:23,640
Speaker 1: Absolutely, you can Barrian goods, okay, like bread that you made.

809
00:46:23,920 --> 00:46:28,560
Speaker 6: Absolutely, Or you can barter with a water you cannot, okay,

810
00:46:28,640 --> 00:46:29,040
Speaker 6: got it.

811
00:46:29,200 --> 00:46:31,200
Speaker 1: I loved it with Roger because I told you, when

812
00:46:31,239 --> 00:46:33,600
Speaker 1: I called Roger, I knew that he would know the rules.

813
00:46:33,960 --> 00:46:35,359
Speaker 3: I just knew he would know the rules.

814
00:46:35,400 --> 00:46:38,520
Speaker 1: And he was like, hey, if some waters try to

815
00:46:38,600 --> 00:46:41,520
Speaker 1: charge you money, you need to find somebody else. Its

816
00:46:41,640 --> 00:46:45,360
Speaker 1: like they don't know any better than anybody else, you know.

817
00:46:45,480 --> 00:46:47,880
Speaker 5: I kind of feel like anybody can water which if

818
00:46:47,840 --> 00:46:50,120
Speaker 5: they'll try it, you know, I mean it could be

819
00:46:50,200 --> 00:46:52,879
Speaker 5: certain bodies, you know, if what I'm saying would be true,

820
00:46:52,920 --> 00:46:55,799
Speaker 5: that we're a conductor of all that stuff, right. You know,

821
00:46:55,800 --> 00:46:58,560
Speaker 5: if you're off the ground, suspended in midair, I don't

822
00:46:58,600 --> 00:47:00,759
Speaker 5: know what would happen. But if you're neck to the.

823
00:47:00,719 --> 00:47:04,240
Speaker 6: Earth a good test. I have never water witched.

824
00:47:04,719 --> 00:47:06,120
Speaker 1: I think anybody could do it.

825
00:47:06,760 --> 00:47:09,680
Speaker 5: I don't know. It could be well, your chemical makeup

826
00:47:09,880 --> 00:47:13,400
Speaker 5: might make it where it's less effective or more, but

827
00:47:13,920 --> 00:47:15,560
Speaker 5: anybody ough'll be able to do it.

828
00:47:15,680 --> 00:47:18,680
Speaker 1: And that brings up an interesting question about what we're

829
00:47:18,719 --> 00:47:23,760
Speaker 1: actually what we're actually talking about. If you're talking about

830
00:47:23,880 --> 00:47:29,680
Speaker 1: finding groundwater, I think that there it's possible that guys

831
00:47:30,640 --> 00:47:32,879
Speaker 1: that have done it. Let's say there's somebody. I don't

832
00:47:32,880 --> 00:47:35,800
Speaker 1: know anybody that's witched a thousand wells.

833
00:47:35,680 --> 00:47:35,839
Speaker 6: But.

834
00:47:37,440 --> 00:47:41,759
Speaker 1: You might be so tuned into where water is, how

835
00:47:41,800 --> 00:47:45,400
Speaker 1: it flows, the sticks, all these data points that you

836
00:47:45,480 --> 00:47:49,120
Speaker 1: are just a master. I mean, now, can anybody make

837
00:47:49,160 --> 00:47:52,919
Speaker 1: the sticks move with with close hagers, I would say

838
00:47:53,120 --> 00:47:57,520
Speaker 1: almost yes, like they it just almost works on everybody,

839
00:47:59,280 --> 00:48:01,359
Speaker 1: Go get a green stick and tell somebody to go

840
00:48:01,440 --> 00:48:02,760
Speaker 1: find underground water.

841
00:48:04,520 --> 00:48:05,279
Speaker 5: They can find it.

842
00:48:05,520 --> 00:48:08,400
Speaker 1: Well I'm saying, I'm saying, no, they can't. I'm saying

843
00:48:09,360 --> 00:48:13,719
Speaker 1: the guy that's done it his whole life, I'm right,

844
00:48:14,160 --> 00:48:18,919
Speaker 1: you're wrong. Okay, No, go ah, yeah, well, just who

845
00:48:18,960 --> 00:48:22,359
Speaker 1: knows what that guy is tapped into that he I'm

846
00:48:22,400 --> 00:48:25,040
Speaker 1: not even saying spiritually, but you know, or something like that,

847
00:48:25,080 --> 00:48:30,480
Speaker 1: but just he's he's he's done it, he knows. And yeah,

848
00:48:30,760 --> 00:48:34,520
Speaker 1: the academic research was done in the nineties that I

849
00:48:34,560 --> 00:48:38,359
Speaker 1: read about, where did these blind tests right with people.

850
00:48:38,680 --> 00:48:42,080
Speaker 6: In the meta analysis? Didn't you read one of those

851
00:48:43,280 --> 00:48:45,360
Speaker 6: go ahead? I mean, didn't you where they kind of

852
00:48:45,360 --> 00:48:48,200
Speaker 6: collected all the different studies that had ever been done.

853
00:48:48,520 --> 00:48:53,120
Speaker 1: Well, I don't know about that, okay, but my question

854
00:48:53,320 --> 00:48:56,800
Speaker 1: is if I went and got thirty water witchers to

855
00:48:57,760 --> 00:49:00,680
Speaker 1: do a test on, I don't know. Are they as

856
00:49:00,760 --> 00:49:04,000
Speaker 1: good as Colin Deaton He's done it a thousand times

857
00:49:04,000 --> 00:49:06,960
Speaker 1: and does it every day. Or did they get guys

858
00:49:07,040 --> 00:49:09,080
Speaker 1: like me that have just kind of dabbled with it.

859
00:49:09,920 --> 00:49:15,200
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, it's just so hard to quantify.

860
00:49:16,600 --> 00:49:19,640
Speaker 5: I had a guy explained, you know, we're t I

861
00:49:19,680 --> 00:49:22,160
Speaker 5: told him's coming up here to water wishing deal and

862
00:49:22,239 --> 00:49:25,680
Speaker 5: he told me this elaborate story. He's a great storyteller,

863
00:49:25,920 --> 00:49:30,040
Speaker 5: a good friend of mine. And he said that they

864
00:49:30,040 --> 00:49:33,359
Speaker 5: were looking for a water line and they witched it.

865
00:49:33,480 --> 00:49:35,200
Speaker 1: But you know, you had to witch this way and

866
00:49:35,280 --> 00:49:35,719
Speaker 1: that way.

867
00:49:35,760 --> 00:49:39,880
Speaker 5: You know how to turn to get angles where everybody

868
00:49:39,920 --> 00:49:42,640
Speaker 5: can't do that right right, And he said, the guy

869
00:49:42,760 --> 00:49:47,040
Speaker 5: finally said, look, it's running right through here exactly. And

870
00:49:47,080 --> 00:49:49,879
Speaker 5: he said, we took a back hole and dug down

871
00:49:50,280 --> 00:49:53,160
Speaker 5: within six inches of where he said it was on

872
00:49:53,200 --> 00:49:57,200
Speaker 5: each side. Then we took a hand deal and dug

873
00:49:57,280 --> 00:49:59,759
Speaker 5: down into it and it was exactly where he said.

874
00:49:59,760 --> 00:50:03,160
Speaker 5: But he he had to make several measurements where that's

875
00:50:03,160 --> 00:50:04,960
Speaker 5: where the expertise.

876
00:50:04,320 --> 00:50:05,040
Speaker 1: Might come in.

877
00:50:06,360 --> 00:50:08,799
Speaker 5: But I don't think it's mental. I think it's a

878
00:50:08,800 --> 00:50:10,799
Speaker 5: physical thing. But who am I?

879
00:50:11,920 --> 00:50:16,440
Speaker 1: Well, Colin Deaton. I appreciated how matter of fact he was.

880
00:50:16,560 --> 00:50:19,160
Speaker 1: He was like, yeah, I'm using all the clues I have.

881
00:50:19,600 --> 00:50:21,920
Speaker 1: There's a water tap there exactly. He goes into the

882
00:50:21,960 --> 00:50:24,560
Speaker 1: house right there and he said it may take me

883
00:50:24,600 --> 00:50:27,040
Speaker 1: a while, but he said, you have to walk perpendicular

884
00:50:27,120 --> 00:50:29,839
Speaker 1: over the line. You might think you just walk down

885
00:50:29,880 --> 00:50:33,120
Speaker 1: the line, but when they cross, if you're on top

886
00:50:33,160 --> 00:50:36,840
Speaker 1: of it, they would just stay cross exactly what happens

887
00:50:37,840 --> 00:50:42,520
Speaker 1: and call me crazy. You know, you walk perpendicular to it, crosses,

888
00:50:42,560 --> 00:50:45,080
Speaker 1: then it opens back up, and so you turn around

889
00:50:45,120 --> 00:50:48,160
Speaker 1: and you go down another ten feet, walk back across

890
00:50:48,200 --> 00:50:51,200
Speaker 1: it and get another data point and get you get

891
00:50:51,200 --> 00:50:55,880
Speaker 1: these data points for where the line is. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

892
00:50:56,080 --> 00:50:59,040
Speaker 1: that takes skill. That would take skill to really absolutely

893
00:50:59,160 --> 00:51:02,520
Speaker 1: dial in, especially if you had no data points, if

894
00:51:02,520 --> 00:51:04,600
Speaker 1: you didn't know where it was.

895
00:51:04,840 --> 00:51:16,000
Speaker 8: You know, now, I think it's ridiculous that we can

896
00:51:16,040 --> 00:51:17,920
Speaker 8: go to the moon, but we can't.

897
00:51:17,640 --> 00:51:19,880
Speaker 2: Tell you how this works.

898
00:51:20,160 --> 00:51:24,200
Speaker 5: I mean, to me, it works, and not necessarily, like

899
00:51:24,239 --> 00:51:27,920
Speaker 5: I've said, not necessarily it's gonna find anything. It just

900
00:51:28,040 --> 00:51:31,399
Speaker 5: happens that most part of the Earth there's nothing there.

901
00:51:31,440 --> 00:51:35,360
Speaker 5: That's just this normal earth. You know, it's always something

902
00:51:35,520 --> 00:51:38,480
Speaker 5: you need. And so really the only prevalent thing is

903
00:51:38,560 --> 00:51:42,759
Speaker 5: going to be water. So you're gonna find water, and

904
00:51:42,840 --> 00:51:45,560
Speaker 5: a lot of these four things that are mentioned in

905
00:51:45,560 --> 00:51:50,799
Speaker 5: in your little rite up of forces of nature. Some

906
00:51:50,960 --> 00:51:54,200
Speaker 5: are strong, some are weak, and you know you're going

907
00:51:54,280 --> 00:51:58,440
Speaker 5: to get different signals. But hey, it's a it's a

908
00:51:58,480 --> 00:51:59,080
Speaker 5: real deal.

909
00:52:00,080 --> 00:52:02,319
Speaker 1: Mm hmm, absolutely, mm hmm.

910
00:52:04,480 --> 00:52:07,680
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, I think it makes total sense that maybe

911
00:52:07,680 --> 00:52:11,279
Speaker 6: everyone could get a little bit of movement, and there's

912
00:52:11,280 --> 00:52:14,600
Speaker 6: something scientific about that. But then people who really hone

913
00:52:14,680 --> 00:52:18,920
Speaker 6: in and devote their life to understanding stuff would figure

914
00:52:18,960 --> 00:52:22,120
Speaker 6: out how to do it better, more precise get different

915
00:52:22,120 --> 00:52:26,680
Speaker 6: types of water just by sheer experience that you couldn't quantify,

916
00:52:26,680 --> 00:52:29,840
Speaker 6: that you couldn't say. I think about like, there's this

917
00:52:29,880 --> 00:52:31,640
Speaker 6: type of cookie that we make that we make on

918
00:52:31,680 --> 00:52:34,359
Speaker 6: the oven, and when my mom taught me to make it,

919
00:52:34,480 --> 00:52:36,120
Speaker 6: she said, you have to feel it, and she would

920
00:52:36,120 --> 00:52:38,200
Speaker 6: make me come over and like when you'd stir it,

921
00:52:38,480 --> 00:52:41,000
Speaker 6: you would feel what And if you don't do it

922
00:52:41,120 --> 00:52:43,520
Speaker 6: just right, it's going to come out too soft or

923
00:52:43,520 --> 00:52:46,839
Speaker 6: too dry, and you just have to feel it. And

924
00:52:47,200 --> 00:52:49,960
Speaker 6: I've tried different ovens, and every oven you get to

925
00:52:50,000 --> 00:52:51,719
Speaker 6: that point at a different time, because you know, you

926
00:52:52,000 --> 00:52:54,680
Speaker 6: want a recipe that just says that three minutes is

927
00:52:54,680 --> 00:52:56,080
Speaker 6: going to do this for a five minutes, But you

928
00:52:56,080 --> 00:52:58,759
Speaker 6: can't because every oven is different. You turn the heat

929
00:52:58,800 --> 00:53:01,800
Speaker 6: on different in different type of sugar, you're using different

930
00:53:01,800 --> 00:53:03,799
Speaker 6: type of conductors.

931
00:53:03,840 --> 00:53:07,120
Speaker 3: You know, in audio motor effect, well, no difference.

932
00:53:06,960 --> 00:53:09,000
Speaker 6: No, there is a difference. There's a huge difference because

933
00:53:09,040 --> 00:53:11,600
Speaker 6: sometimes it takes sometimes it takes five minutes to get

934
00:53:11,600 --> 00:53:14,200
Speaker 6: to that spot and sometimes it takes three minutes. And

935
00:53:15,160 --> 00:53:16,840
Speaker 6: you just have to know how it feels. And there

936
00:53:16,880 --> 00:53:18,839
Speaker 6: are people who know what it feels like and they

937
00:53:18,880 --> 00:53:21,040
Speaker 6: know how to find how to test it, and how

938
00:53:21,040 --> 00:53:24,640
Speaker 6: to go a little further. But probably everybody could do it.

939
00:53:25,160 --> 00:53:27,440
Speaker 2: Check all recipes for the audio motor.

940
00:53:27,239 --> 00:53:36,759
Speaker 1: Cookie mm hmm. Yeah. Well it's really interesting to me,

941
00:53:36,960 --> 00:53:41,359
Speaker 1: and it's interesting to see how people how people handle it.

942
00:53:42,000 --> 00:53:44,200
Speaker 1: And and I thought it was, Oh, it was so

943
00:53:44,320 --> 00:53:48,799
Speaker 1: funny when I'm with doctor ken Effect like in the

944
00:53:48,840 --> 00:53:53,959
Speaker 1: middle of an interview and literally knock on the door

945
00:53:54,880 --> 00:53:57,160
Speaker 1: and he's like, oh, I'm so sorry, Clay, I forgot

946
00:53:57,200 --> 00:53:59,719
Speaker 1: they were coming. And he takes off his headset, you know,

947
00:53:59,840 --> 00:54:03,160
Speaker 1: like kind of like the interview is like, oh, okay,

948
00:54:03,320 --> 00:54:07,320
Speaker 1: well all right, I guess we're done. In walks Sarah

949
00:54:08,640 --> 00:54:12,799
Speaker 1: and uh, doctor Kinnifect says Sarah, this is Clay. He's

950
00:54:12,800 --> 00:54:17,839
Speaker 1: here talking about water witching, and she goes she just

951
00:54:17,920 --> 00:54:20,919
Speaker 1: I mean within seconds, was just like, yeah, I hired

952
00:54:20,920 --> 00:54:24,880
Speaker 1: a water witcher six months ago, and I just was like,

953
00:54:25,000 --> 00:54:27,760
Speaker 1: I wish I could have recorded the actual moment when

954
00:54:27,840 --> 00:54:31,160
Speaker 1: she when she told me that, I just said, you're

955
00:54:31,280 --> 00:54:33,600
Speaker 1: kidding and she's like, oh no, and she was real

956
00:54:33,719 --> 00:54:37,440
Speaker 1: nice and the good she was she she was very

957
00:54:37,480 --> 00:54:39,960
Speaker 1: good at describing and I just said, yeah, she was good.

958
00:54:40,000 --> 00:54:42,000
Speaker 1: Will you sit down with me? And she was like sure.

959
00:54:42,440 --> 00:54:46,600
Speaker 1: They were like two minutes maybe three after meeting her.

960
00:54:46,680 --> 00:54:49,640
Speaker 1: She was sitting in the chair telling me about the

961
00:54:49,680 --> 00:54:51,640
Speaker 1: guys that she paid one hundred and fifty dollars to

962
00:54:51,680 --> 00:54:54,799
Speaker 1: which water for or that she paid them for it,

963
00:54:55,280 --> 00:55:02,919
Speaker 1: and she she she Mark findall, Roger Quinton, and Clay

964
00:55:03,000 --> 00:55:07,520
Speaker 1: Newcomb all have the same idea is probably should go

965
00:55:07,560 --> 00:55:10,399
Speaker 1: ahead and do it, just if you're gonna if you're

966
00:55:10,400 --> 00:55:14,160
Speaker 1: gonna have a well and even statistically, it's not gonna

967
00:55:14,200 --> 00:55:19,040
Speaker 1: hurt you because if in fact, a water witcher cannot

968
00:55:19,200 --> 00:55:23,239
Speaker 1: find underground water any better than random chance, then it's

969
00:55:23,280 --> 00:55:24,040
Speaker 1: not gonna hurt.

970
00:55:23,920 --> 00:55:28,200
Speaker 2: You, right because how's because how's a well driller gonna

971
00:55:28,239 --> 00:55:28,600
Speaker 2: find it?

972
00:55:29,440 --> 00:55:30,120
Speaker 6: Yeah?

973
00:55:30,239 --> 00:55:32,280
Speaker 2: They don't have any better chance than the water witcher.

974
00:55:32,920 --> 00:55:36,040
Speaker 1: They I mean, okay, would they would? They would have

975
00:55:36,400 --> 00:55:39,680
Speaker 1: a lot of prior knowledge of where to drill well,

976
00:55:40,080 --> 00:55:43,440
Speaker 1: you know, they would they would have known in this

977
00:55:43,680 --> 00:55:47,560
Speaker 1: valley or at this elevation. Typically we drill here or

978
00:55:47,600 --> 00:55:49,239
Speaker 1: here or.

979
00:55:49,600 --> 00:55:55,120
Speaker 6: I guarantee you yeah know that information too. I'm certain

980
00:55:55,160 --> 00:55:58,879
Speaker 6: that water witchers would know that intel maybe because they've

981
00:55:58,920 --> 00:56:02,279
Speaker 6: done it. Yeah, so they've got they have that. That's

982
00:56:02,320 --> 00:56:02,640
Speaker 6: part of it.

983
00:56:02,840 --> 00:56:06,640
Speaker 1: See, there's all levels of water witchers, you know, like Carl,

984
00:56:07,200 --> 00:56:07,720
Speaker 1: the one.

985
00:56:07,560 --> 00:56:09,800
Speaker 6: You would pay, the one you would pay.

986
00:56:11,840 --> 00:56:16,279
Speaker 1: There should be like Carl, Carl told me. I mean,

987
00:56:17,040 --> 00:56:22,480
Speaker 1: in Carl's mind he has well, it's it's I believe him.

988
00:56:22,760 --> 00:56:24,920
Speaker 1: He's never told them to dig a well there and

989
00:56:24,960 --> 00:56:27,480
Speaker 1: then not have found water. They always find water.

990
00:56:28,040 --> 00:56:30,200
Speaker 2: I'd like to see a statistic on how many well

991
00:56:30,320 --> 00:56:32,400
Speaker 2: drillers drill well and don't find water.

992
00:56:32,640 --> 00:56:36,480
Speaker 1: Right, that's the thing, because it could be it's just

993
00:56:36,520 --> 00:56:39,160
Speaker 1: like well, anywhere you drill, if you drill deep enough,

994
00:56:39,200 --> 00:56:40,120
Speaker 1: you're going to find water.

995
00:56:40,800 --> 00:56:43,759
Speaker 2: Typical well around here's what two to three hundred feet.

996
00:56:43,880 --> 00:56:47,319
Speaker 5: I'd say so, and Bear's founded at fourteen, So I

997
00:56:47,360 --> 00:56:48,960
Speaker 5: mean I'm going to bear yeah.

998
00:56:49,480 --> 00:56:50,520
Speaker 1: Uh. One thing.

999
00:56:50,800 --> 00:56:53,680
Speaker 5: I don't know if y'all find this interesting, but I did.

1000
00:56:53,719 --> 00:56:59,680
Speaker 5: I had a customer and he was an unusual guy,

1001
00:56:59,840 --> 00:57:03,920
Speaker 5: and he did what was called dowsing tell us about

1002
00:57:03,920 --> 00:57:07,800
Speaker 5: his well. He kept his Marlboroughs in his T shirt

1003
00:57:08,640 --> 00:57:11,040
Speaker 5: sleeve right here. And then he get a six pack

1004
00:57:11,080 --> 00:57:13,520
Speaker 5: of beer tied in a T shirt tied to his belt.

1005
00:57:14,360 --> 00:57:18,360
Speaker 5: And anyway, he came in my office and he got

1006
00:57:18,400 --> 00:57:21,360
Speaker 5: to talking about this dowsing, and of course I'm intrigued

1007
00:57:21,400 --> 00:57:24,000
Speaker 5: by it. I don't necessarily believe it, but I'm just

1008
00:57:24,120 --> 00:57:26,840
Speaker 5: intrigued by these type people. And I like getting outdoors.

1009
00:57:27,080 --> 00:57:30,040
Speaker 5: And I said, if I give you a well, they

1010
00:57:30,080 --> 00:57:32,720
Speaker 5: would play a game where they would cut a big

1011
00:57:32,800 --> 00:57:36,320
Speaker 5: area of a yard up into blocks, and somebody would

1012
00:57:36,360 --> 00:57:39,680
Speaker 5: put a quarter on number forty seven block. Have the

1013
00:57:39,720 --> 00:57:41,840
Speaker 5: guy come out of the house. He'd take a string

1014
00:57:41,960 --> 00:57:44,240
Speaker 5: with a ball on the end of it and go,

1015
00:57:44,320 --> 00:57:47,200
Speaker 5: where is the quarter in this thing? Which kind of

1016
00:57:47,200 --> 00:57:50,520
Speaker 5: a ball? It didn't matter, It didn't matter. The one

1017
00:57:50,560 --> 00:57:54,240
Speaker 5: time I used it, I used my rope on my

1018
00:57:54,480 --> 00:57:58,960
Speaker 5: rain jacket trying to find it an arrow I finally got. Anyway,

1019
00:57:58,760 --> 00:58:02,560
Speaker 5: so this thing would take him to that spot, and

1020
00:58:02,600 --> 00:58:04,320
Speaker 5: I go, hey, what if I take you out in

1021
00:58:04,360 --> 00:58:09,920
Speaker 5: the woods and describe something and you think you can

1022
00:58:09,960 --> 00:58:12,320
Speaker 5: find it? He said, absolutely, no question. So I took

1023
00:58:12,400 --> 00:58:15,560
Speaker 5: him way out as far as you could go, and

1024
00:58:15,640 --> 00:58:20,280
Speaker 5: knew of a very prominent spot a long you know,

1025
00:58:20,360 --> 00:58:25,640
Speaker 5: two hours away up a mountain, and he said he

1026
00:58:25,680 --> 00:58:27,919
Speaker 5: had never been there. Of course I believe that he had.

1027
00:58:28,080 --> 00:58:30,640
Speaker 5: I mean, I just don't believe this. And so we

1028
00:58:30,720 --> 00:58:34,600
Speaker 5: get out of the truck and he said, where is

1029
00:58:34,720 --> 00:58:39,720
Speaker 5: the blank this object that I knew was there? And

1030
00:58:40,080 --> 00:58:43,240
Speaker 5: he took his little dowser out and it got the swinging,

1031
00:58:43,320 --> 00:58:46,200
Speaker 5: and we took off up the mountain and we'd go

1032
00:58:46,240 --> 00:58:48,840
Speaker 5: a little ways and he'd get us over here. When

1033
00:58:48,880 --> 00:58:50,960
Speaker 5: we finally got to the top of the mountain, it

1034
00:58:51,080 --> 00:58:53,840
Speaker 5: was just almost straight up. You had to get on

1035
00:58:53,920 --> 00:58:57,680
Speaker 5: all fours. And when we looked over the top of

1036
00:58:57,720 --> 00:59:00,280
Speaker 5: the mountain, just like this, it was flat as a pan. Okay,

1037
00:59:00,520 --> 00:59:04,920
Speaker 5: there was, I mean it was within fifty yards of

1038
00:59:05,000 --> 00:59:05,440
Speaker 5: where we.

1039
00:59:05,520 --> 00:59:06,760
Speaker 1: Came up on the mountain.

1040
00:59:06,960 --> 00:59:10,320
Speaker 5: What's the it, Well, I'd rather not say.

1041
00:59:10,600 --> 00:59:12,600
Speaker 1: Oh it's a big yeah.

1042
00:59:12,440 --> 00:59:14,280
Speaker 2: Oh it's a it's a like a location like.

1043
00:59:14,360 --> 00:59:16,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, Okay, you can say it was a cemetery.

1044
00:59:16,960 --> 00:59:22,200
Speaker 5: Okay, cemetery okay, way out, no roads to it. It's

1045
00:59:22,280 --> 00:59:23,360
Speaker 5: just isolated up.

1046
00:59:23,240 --> 00:59:26,200
Speaker 3: There a long ways away.

1047
00:59:26,560 --> 00:59:28,280
Speaker 2: Dad's told I thought you meant like there was an

1048
00:59:28,320 --> 00:59:29,640
Speaker 2: object you had Well.

1049
00:59:29,680 --> 00:59:32,160
Speaker 5: You know, I just didn't want to to people who

1050
00:59:32,200 --> 00:59:32,720
Speaker 5: know the area.

1051
00:59:32,760 --> 00:59:33,080
Speaker 2: I didn't.

1052
00:59:33,320 --> 00:59:37,280
Speaker 1: You know, Yeah, it's a it's it's a cemetery.

1053
00:59:37,120 --> 00:59:37,960
Speaker 2: In the middle of the woods.

1054
00:59:38,080 --> 00:59:41,120
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, with that old old cemetery that no, there's

1055
00:59:41,160 --> 00:59:43,440
Speaker 1: no longer any access to. You got to walk into

1056
00:59:43,480 --> 00:59:49,120
Speaker 1: it and uh it that's told me that story. I

1057
00:59:49,160 --> 00:59:50,520
Speaker 1: remember when that happened.

1058
00:59:50,720 --> 00:59:53,600
Speaker 5: It was pretty shocking, pretty shocking. I mean we were

1059
00:59:53,640 --> 00:59:56,800
Speaker 5: smoking and drinking all the way up he was, I

1060
00:59:56,840 --> 00:59:59,360
Speaker 5: mean he was on the and.

1061
00:59:59,520 --> 01:00:01,800
Speaker 1: They're like that. You just have to either say it's

1062
01:00:01,840 --> 01:00:04,880
Speaker 1: kind of like what doctor Kidifex said, Uh, the guy's

1063
01:00:04,920 --> 01:00:09,640
Speaker 1: either a fraud or well, this has nothing to do

1064
01:00:09,680 --> 01:00:15,920
Speaker 1: with physics. This is to me something not even really related.

1065
01:00:16,000 --> 01:00:20,280
Speaker 1: It can't I just can't be real. Yeah, dowsing to me,

1066
01:00:20,960 --> 01:00:26,320
Speaker 1: if you're like using your your mind to ask questions

1067
01:00:26,360 --> 01:00:29,720
Speaker 1: to an object, that's like pretty weird. That's that's uh,

1068
01:00:29,920 --> 01:00:34,840
Speaker 1: that's how it bounds for me. But but I that's

1069
01:00:34,840 --> 01:00:37,320
Speaker 1: what people do. And that's where all this all gets

1070
01:00:37,360 --> 01:00:44,320
Speaker 1: so convoluted is because water witching, dowsing all, you know,

1071
01:00:44,440 --> 01:00:46,880
Speaker 1: using a green stick to find underground water, like, all

1072
01:00:46,960 --> 01:00:49,520
Speaker 1: this stuff kind of gets mixed into like the same

1073
01:00:50,360 --> 01:00:53,480
Speaker 1: bucket and then becomes very confusing. And then when you

1074
01:00:53,520 --> 01:00:57,439
Speaker 1: start reading about water witching and stuff. Back in the day,

1075
01:00:58,040 --> 01:00:59,760
Speaker 1: I didn't even put it on the podcast because it

1076
01:00:59,760 --> 01:01:02,440
Speaker 1: was just a little too far out of bounds. They

1077
01:01:02,480 --> 01:01:05,240
Speaker 1: would use witching sticks to like tell if somebody had

1078
01:01:05,360 --> 01:01:09,040
Speaker 1: character or not, or to tell if they lied. They

1079
01:01:09,080 --> 01:01:11,280
Speaker 1: would be like did you lie? And you'd be like, no,

1080
01:01:11,360 --> 01:01:12,840
Speaker 1: I didn't lie, and you go, well, let's get the

1081
01:01:12,880 --> 01:01:15,480
Speaker 1: witching sticks. And if they crossed the guy was a liar,

1082
01:01:15,640 --> 01:01:18,880
Speaker 1: you know, and they'd kill him. They would ask they

1083
01:01:18,880 --> 01:01:24,160
Speaker 1: would use it as hard Yeah. So there's there's just

1084
01:01:24,200 --> 01:01:29,360
Speaker 1: this rabbit hole that's really deep. And I don't believe

1085
01:01:29,360 --> 01:01:33,480
Speaker 1: that sticks can determine human character and tell you if

1086
01:01:33,480 --> 01:01:40,400
Speaker 1: someone lied or not. My only question is what makes

1087
01:01:40,440 --> 01:01:43,400
Speaker 1: the sticks move? It was the only question that I

1088
01:01:43,440 --> 01:01:46,280
Speaker 1: was seeking to answer from this what makes the sticks move?

1089
01:01:46,360 --> 01:01:50,240
Speaker 5: And the conclusion is huhm, one of those four things.

1090
01:01:50,360 --> 01:01:52,000
Speaker 1: I don't think it's mental physics.

1091
01:01:52,400 --> 01:01:54,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, Dad thinks it's physics.

1092
01:01:55,040 --> 01:01:57,360
Speaker 2: It's got to be, got to be.

1093
01:01:57,840 --> 01:02:01,120
Speaker 1: I want to I really wanted to talk to an

1094
01:02:01,120 --> 01:02:05,720
Speaker 1: expert on the audio motor technique that will go with

1095
01:02:05,760 --> 01:02:09,440
Speaker 1: me to Carl Holt's house and watch his hands and

1096
01:02:09,520 --> 01:02:14,160
Speaker 1: just explain to me the physics of Well. I just

1097
01:02:14,200 --> 01:02:16,560
Speaker 1: don't think I just don't think Carl Holt was trying

1098
01:02:16,560 --> 01:02:17,040
Speaker 1: to trick me.

1099
01:02:17,480 --> 01:02:21,520
Speaker 6: I definitely think you might have some self professed experts

1100
01:02:21,640 --> 01:02:24,040
Speaker 6: on the IDEO motor movement on your Instagram right now.

1101
01:02:24,160 --> 01:02:26,800
Speaker 6: Oh yeah, you got a couple guys who would volunteer.

1102
01:02:26,880 --> 01:02:30,240
Speaker 6: They've started, they've already started the analysis.

1103
01:02:30,480 --> 01:02:34,560
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, and I knew that I signed up for that, Yeah,

1104
01:02:35,200 --> 01:02:38,120
Speaker 1: signed up for it. But hey, these are the questions

1105
01:02:38,120 --> 01:02:42,840
Speaker 1: that make, uh, make life fun, and it's fun to

1106
01:02:42,960 --> 01:02:45,640
Speaker 1: just explore these things and uh.

1107
01:02:47,040 --> 01:02:51,280
Speaker 3: And and ask, you know, ask hard questions.

1108
01:02:51,320 --> 01:02:53,840
Speaker 1: I was like, bearr. I never even thought much about

1109
01:02:53,880 --> 01:02:56,440
Speaker 1: it until I became an adult and I was like,

1110
01:02:56,480 --> 01:03:00,120
Speaker 1: wait a minute, this is unusual. And then it's like,

1111
01:03:01,720 --> 01:03:03,480
Speaker 1: is this normal to know how to do this? Is

1112
01:03:04,000 --> 01:03:09,320
Speaker 1: this across the country? So interesting questions. But humans are

1113
01:03:09,960 --> 01:03:14,800
Speaker 1: inherently fallible and gullible. I will say that, in fact,

1114
01:03:15,400 --> 01:03:17,600
Speaker 1: a lot of stuff happens that's not real that we

1115
01:03:17,680 --> 01:03:18,320
Speaker 1: think is real.

1116
01:03:19,720 --> 01:03:20,280
Speaker 3: It's true.

1117
01:03:20,400 --> 01:03:24,520
Speaker 6: And I also think that humans are too skeptical. Yeah,

1118
01:03:24,920 --> 01:03:26,040
Speaker 6: I think it goes both ways.

1119
01:03:27,520 --> 01:03:32,360
Speaker 1: I said, something. The other day. I was writing something

1120
01:03:32,400 --> 01:03:37,160
Speaker 1: and I wrote it. I said that modernity has given

1121
01:03:37,240 --> 01:03:42,960
Speaker 1: us so much. Modernity just being technology and all the

1122
01:03:43,280 --> 01:03:47,920
Speaker 1: incredible things and knowledge that we have access to today

1123
01:03:47,960 --> 01:03:50,240
Speaker 1: that no humans have ever had access to. I mean,

1124
01:03:50,560 --> 01:03:55,680
Speaker 1: the human experience that we live is far beyond the

1125
01:03:55,720 --> 01:03:58,920
Speaker 1: wildest imagination of people from the Stone Age or even

1126
01:03:58,960 --> 01:04:01,600
Speaker 1: people three hundred years ago. Did you know that there

1127
01:04:01,640 --> 01:04:04,800
Speaker 1: were I'm going to get back to the quote. They

1128
01:04:04,920 --> 01:04:08,440
Speaker 1: believe that there have been about one hundred billion Homo

1129
01:04:08,440 --> 01:04:12,200
Speaker 1: sapiens that have lived on planet Earth since the dawn

1130
01:04:12,280 --> 01:04:15,800
Speaker 1: of time, about a one hundred billion. Today there's about

1131
01:04:15,840 --> 01:04:21,080
Speaker 1: eight billion, so there's about ninety two billion Homo sapiens

1132
01:04:21,120 --> 01:04:25,280
Speaker 1: behind us that have died. And what we live today,

1133
01:04:25,400 --> 01:04:28,840
Speaker 1: by driving cars, by having electricity, by having running water

1134
01:04:28,880 --> 01:04:32,720
Speaker 1: in our house, by being able to communicate via cell phone,

1135
01:04:32,920 --> 01:04:36,720
Speaker 1: by you know, being able to have computers and internet,

1136
01:04:37,360 --> 01:04:42,920
Speaker 1: watch digital imagery on a screen, is something that a

1137
01:04:43,080 --> 01:04:47,640
Speaker 1: minuscule like this is a new human experiment. And what

1138
01:04:47,720 --> 01:04:50,520
Speaker 1: I said was modernity has given us so many things,

1139
01:04:50,560 --> 01:04:55,520
Speaker 1: which much of it good, But we have no idea

1140
01:04:55,640 --> 01:05:02,040
Speaker 1: what we lost, what had? What has all the technology

1141
01:05:02,600 --> 01:05:05,680
Speaker 1: and all the comfort and all the full belly all

1142
01:05:05,720 --> 01:05:10,000
Speaker 1: the time, not having to navigate the landscape. Yeap, what

1143
01:05:10,160 --> 01:05:12,680
Speaker 1: has that taken from us? And that we have no idea?

1144
01:05:13,800 --> 01:05:15,560
Speaker 2: Yep, yep, I agree.

1145
01:05:16,840 --> 01:05:19,080
Speaker 1: I was gonna I was gonna say one more thing.

1146
01:05:19,480 --> 01:05:23,040
Speaker 1: When we were talking about you were talking about kind

1147
01:05:23,080 --> 01:05:30,680
Speaker 1: of unexplainable things that people do that are like beyond rationality.

1148
01:05:31,000 --> 01:05:33,720
Speaker 1: This this book Arctic Dreams by Barry Lopez. It was

1149
01:05:33,760 --> 01:05:37,320
Speaker 1: talking about when the Europeans first interfaced with the Inuit

1150
01:05:37,400 --> 01:05:44,600
Speaker 1: people in the Arctic, and they were when they talked

1151
01:05:44,720 --> 01:05:48,400
Speaker 1: to the Indian people, they were they didn't think they

1152
01:05:48,480 --> 01:05:53,480
Speaker 1: understood direction because the way that the Inuits said directions

1153
01:05:53,520 --> 01:05:56,920
Speaker 1: and described the landscape was way different than the Europeans.

1154
01:05:56,920 --> 01:06:00,160
Speaker 1: It was like this collision of two thinking systems and

1155
01:06:00,160 --> 01:06:05,240
Speaker 1: in two ways to view the earth. But they noted

1156
01:06:06,040 --> 01:06:13,160
Speaker 1: the unreal navigational system that the Inuits had, and there

1157
01:06:13,200 --> 01:06:18,320
Speaker 1: were accounts of you know, guys on sea ice walking

1158
01:06:18,680 --> 01:06:22,240
Speaker 1: in the dark in snowstorms.

1159
01:06:21,200 --> 01:06:23,240
Speaker 3: Like straight back to their villages.

1160
01:06:23,800 --> 01:06:26,920
Speaker 1: They can imagine that the sea ice out there is

1161
01:06:27,480 --> 01:06:30,840
Speaker 1: just like flat, like there's there's no there's no topography

1162
01:06:30,880 --> 01:06:34,280
Speaker 1: because it's ice, and you would go they would you know.

1163
01:06:34,280 --> 01:06:37,240
Speaker 1: I don't remember the exact circumstance, but basically they would

1164
01:06:37,280 --> 01:06:41,280
Speaker 1: be miles and miles out on sea ice, and these

1165
01:06:41,320 --> 01:06:44,640
Speaker 1: inuits would be like homestea, and I mean it was

1166
01:06:44,640 --> 01:06:46,720
Speaker 1: like a white out in the dark.

1167
01:06:48,200 --> 01:06:50,240
Speaker 3: You would die if you had to stay out there,

1168
01:06:50,480 --> 01:06:53,600
Speaker 3: and they could just walk home. It's like, what's governing

1169
01:06:53,640 --> 01:06:54,840
Speaker 3: that so interesting?

1170
01:06:55,080 --> 01:06:58,240
Speaker 5: A dog can do that? Animals do that. We've lost

1171
01:06:58,320 --> 01:07:01,360
Speaker 5: those skills. We don't need them. I don't even want

1172
01:07:01,400 --> 01:07:03,200
Speaker 5: to be able to do that. I don't need that.

1173
01:07:03,520 --> 01:07:06,240
Speaker 5: I got a phone, I got a compass, you know

1174
01:07:06,240 --> 01:07:08,960
Speaker 5: what I mean. I don't want to waste my brain

1175
01:07:09,040 --> 01:07:10,320
Speaker 5: power on something like that.

1176
01:07:11,040 --> 01:07:12,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, but you throw a.

1177
01:07:12,920 --> 01:07:15,600
Speaker 5: Dog out ten miles from your house and he'll be

1178
01:07:15,640 --> 01:07:18,240
Speaker 5: at He'll be at the breakfast table the next morning

1179
01:07:18,320 --> 01:07:19,200
Speaker 5: looking for a biscuit.

1180
01:07:21,320 --> 01:07:22,080
Speaker 1: Very good boy.

1181
01:07:22,040 --> 01:07:25,320
Speaker 5: We've thrown our cats out four or five times that

1182
01:07:25,720 --> 01:07:26,800
Speaker 5: I remember coming back.

1183
01:07:26,840 --> 01:07:29,680
Speaker 2: I remember taking some friends of ours took a cat

1184
01:07:29,720 --> 01:07:32,240
Speaker 2: out to a farm that they lived in town, and

1185
01:07:32,320 --> 01:07:35,920
Speaker 2: it was like thirteen miles and the next morning that

1186
01:07:35,960 --> 01:07:40,080
Speaker 2: cat was home. Really yeah, and even in the middle

1187
01:07:40,120 --> 01:07:40,520
Speaker 2: of town.

1188
01:07:41,000 --> 01:07:41,400
Speaker 1: Wow.

1189
01:07:41,600 --> 01:07:47,160
Speaker 5: Wow, those are skills that we used to have and

1190
01:07:47,200 --> 01:07:51,160
Speaker 5: we've lost and I think it's very good to lose them.

1191
01:07:51,480 --> 01:07:53,400
Speaker 5: So you think it's good to lose I think it

1192
01:07:53,480 --> 01:07:56,320
Speaker 5: is because we've got more capacity to do other things

1193
01:07:56,320 --> 01:07:58,680
Speaker 5: that are more important, you know, Like I say, why

1194
01:07:58,720 --> 01:08:02,240
Speaker 5: do I need to walk cross eyes for thirteen miles

1195
01:08:02,280 --> 01:08:05,200
Speaker 5: to get home? I don't. I mean, I mean, you

1196
01:08:05,240 --> 01:08:05,920
Speaker 5: know what I'm.

1197
01:08:05,760 --> 01:08:08,440
Speaker 1: Saying around here.

1198
01:08:09,480 --> 01:08:14,560
Speaker 5: I gotta work on my handicap, I mean really know anything.

1199
01:08:14,680 --> 01:08:17,800
Speaker 5: But I mean, why waste time when something is useless?

1200
01:08:18,160 --> 01:08:20,200
Speaker 5: I mean, I got, I got it all right here.

1201
01:08:20,880 --> 01:08:24,600
Speaker 5: I'm not gonna I'm not gonna take up my mental

1202
01:08:24,960 --> 01:08:27,280
Speaker 5: amount of brain power on something that's not gonna do

1203
01:08:27,360 --> 01:08:27,840
Speaker 5: any good.

1204
01:08:28,080 --> 01:08:31,839
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, what you're described, I think he's hyperbolically speaking

1205
01:08:31,880 --> 01:08:34,599
Speaker 1: in a way, like exaggerating to make a point. That's

1206
01:08:34,640 --> 01:08:38,559
Speaker 1: the way your body in biology has functioned. Like basically,

1207
01:08:38,680 --> 01:08:42,960
Speaker 1: essentially your brain has decided that that's true. Because we

1208
01:08:43,120 --> 01:08:47,160
Speaker 1: don't have this incredible homing instinct just naturally.

1209
01:08:47,400 --> 01:08:48,600
Speaker 3: It has to be developed.

1210
01:08:48,880 --> 01:08:54,320
Speaker 1: It probably is even lost generationally, you know, over time.

1211
01:08:54,560 --> 01:08:57,639
Speaker 1: I mean it's possible, way in deep time a child

1212
01:08:57,760 --> 01:08:59,840
Speaker 1: was born and they just had it more than they

1213
01:08:59,840 --> 01:09:00,479
Speaker 1: have it today.

1214
01:09:00,560 --> 01:09:04,000
Speaker 5: I don't know, well, people that I get that I've

1215
01:09:04,000 --> 01:09:06,479
Speaker 5: been with, and y'all have seen the same thing. You

1216
01:09:06,520 --> 01:09:09,160
Speaker 5: can go out in the woods with one particular person

1217
01:09:09,720 --> 01:09:11,680
Speaker 5: and you go, Okay, it's time to go back to

1218
01:09:11,720 --> 01:09:15,120
Speaker 5: the truck. And I mean, I've done it with a

1219
01:09:15,160 --> 01:09:18,320
Speaker 5: guy one time, dragging a deer out and when we

1220
01:09:18,400 --> 01:09:20,640
Speaker 5: started to take off, he went that way and I

1221
01:09:20,680 --> 01:09:25,439
Speaker 5: went this way. You remember that? Yeah, Yeah, some people

1222
01:09:25,680 --> 01:09:30,200
Speaker 5: still have some of that it a stronger degree than others.

1223
01:09:30,560 --> 01:09:30,840
Speaker 1: Uh.

1224
01:09:30,880 --> 01:09:33,080
Speaker 5: And I don't have it. I mean, I'm I'm as

1225
01:09:33,120 --> 01:09:35,160
Speaker 5: lost as a goose. You throw me out in the woods,

1226
01:09:36,720 --> 01:09:38,800
Speaker 5: but I do know to look at moss on the

1227
01:09:38,840 --> 01:09:40,640
Speaker 5: north side of the tree, and it's got me out

1228
01:09:40,640 --> 01:09:42,120
Speaker 5: of the woods a couple of times doing that.

1229
01:09:44,640 --> 01:09:47,840
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, and I think that there's some correlation to

1230
01:09:47,920 --> 01:09:54,160
Speaker 1: all that with potentially, you know, this water witch and stuff.

1231
01:09:54,479 --> 01:09:57,880
Speaker 1: Potentially like there's there's something nuanced in it. Even doctor

1232
01:09:57,960 --> 01:10:00,760
Speaker 1: ken Effect said that, he said it may not work

1233
01:10:00,800 --> 01:10:03,040
Speaker 1: in a lab because if there's too many variables and

1234
01:10:03,080 --> 01:10:06,360
Speaker 1: we really don't know what we're studying, or perhaps it's

1235
01:10:06,439 --> 01:10:11,599
Speaker 1: incredibly nuanced. And uh. And I think I think if

1236
01:10:11,600 --> 01:10:15,360
Speaker 1: we could go back in time to a Native American

1237
01:10:15,479 --> 01:10:18,760
Speaker 1: from a thousand years ago and just pile around with

1238
01:10:18,840 --> 01:10:19,880
Speaker 1: them for a couple of days.

1239
01:10:20,280 --> 01:10:21,000
Speaker 3: I think we'd be.

1240
01:10:21,000 --> 01:10:25,240
Speaker 1: Shocked at the stuff that they could do, not not physically,

1241
01:10:25,360 --> 01:10:28,240
Speaker 1: like running and jumping and climbing trees, I mean like,

1242
01:10:28,600 --> 01:10:32,800
Speaker 1: but like, I think they would just have an instinctual

1243
01:10:32,880 --> 01:10:35,760
Speaker 1: knowledge of the land that would far sur pass I mean,

1244
01:10:35,880 --> 01:10:38,879
Speaker 1: undoubtedly they would, but I think some of it wouldn't

1245
01:10:38,920 --> 01:10:41,960
Speaker 1: be perceived by physics. I think some of it would

1246
01:10:42,000 --> 01:10:46,479
Speaker 1: be just like that's what makes us human? Is that

1247
01:10:46,520 --> 01:10:53,360
Speaker 1: where we're different than Yeah, interesting stuff, bare thoughts, final thoughts,

1248
01:10:55,840 --> 01:10:58,360
Speaker 1: no final thoughts. No you if you.

1249
01:10:58,840 --> 01:11:01,519
Speaker 3: Drill well you ever have land, you get you wal

1250
01:11:01,720 --> 01:11:02,280
Speaker 3: you're witching it.

1251
01:11:02,360 --> 01:11:03,599
Speaker 1: I'll be witching it for sure.

1252
01:11:03,920 --> 01:11:06,480
Speaker 2: You'll be witching it yourself or your call someone.

1253
01:11:08,280 --> 01:11:08,960
Speaker 6: Depends on how.

1254
01:11:12,360 --> 01:11:13,120
Speaker 3: Wrong answer.

1255
01:11:14,080 --> 01:11:17,840
Speaker 1: You get your old dad to do it, pars, he

1256
01:11:17,880 --> 01:11:22,000
Speaker 1: can do it. We'll get Carl Holt to do it.

1257
01:11:22,360 --> 01:11:25,040
Speaker 1: He'll do it. He'll do it for free, that's right. Well,

1258
01:11:25,520 --> 01:11:30,680
Speaker 1: he lives pretty a little little a piece from here.

1259
01:11:30,800 --> 01:11:32,880
Speaker 2: If they need to charge mileage, I'm okay with that.

1260
01:11:33,320 --> 01:11:37,280
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, he actually said to me that he he

1261
01:11:37,280 --> 01:11:41,160
Speaker 1: didn't mind getting a little gas money. I like you.

1262
01:11:41,439 --> 01:11:42,519
Speaker 5: I like, I like that.

1263
01:11:46,240 --> 01:11:47,760
Speaker 1: Hey do you see this hat right here?

1264
01:11:48,280 --> 01:11:49,479
Speaker 2: It's pretty cool.

1265
01:11:49,880 --> 01:11:53,160
Speaker 1: This is a massy oak bear grease hat we've got.

1266
01:11:53,640 --> 01:11:55,600
Speaker 1: They're they're for selling the media to your website.

1267
01:11:55,960 --> 01:11:58,120
Speaker 2: I'm thinking about arm wrestling for it here in a second.

1268
01:11:58,840 --> 01:11:59,439
Speaker 6: It'll be fun.

1269
01:12:00,080 --> 01:12:02,240
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's O school cameo.

1270
01:12:03,040 --> 01:12:08,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, mosty Oak, most Yoak bottom Land. Yep. All right,

1271
01:12:08,120 --> 01:12:12,240
Speaker 1: thank you guys for listening, and as always, kicks a

1272
01:12:12,280 --> 01:12:14,160
Speaker 1: wild Places Wild. That's my ars love