Speaker 1: Welcome back to a numbers game with Ryan Gardoski. So
Speaker 1: we are headed towards the middle of Trump's first one
Speaker 1: hundred days in office. It's a big part of his
Speaker 1: agenda so far has been getting his cabinet confirmed, which
Speaker 1: is the very first part of every kind of administration's agenda.
Speaker 1: While some of his team, like Marco Rubio, have sailed
Speaker 1: through the confirmation he was confirmed ninety nine to zero,
Speaker 1: some of Team Trump's toughest challenges lay ahead of him
Speaker 1: when it comes to confirmation, and that's the confirmation of
Speaker 1: the former Democrats. That's Robert F. Kennedy Junior for the
Speaker 1: Secretary of Health and Human Services, Tulsea Gabbert for the
Speaker 1: Director of National Intelligence, and Cash Ptel for FBI Director.
Speaker 1: I'm not exactly sure if Cash was officially a Democrat,
Speaker 1: but he got his start in the Obama administration's Justice
Speaker 1: Apartment back in twenty fourteen, so that's why I'm including him.
Speaker 1: It looks like that none of these people, despite being
Speaker 1: former Democrats, are affiliated with Democratic passive administrations, are going
Speaker 1: to receive much of any support from Senate Demors, who
Speaker 1: have given their support to other ones of Trump's nominees.
Speaker 1: Like Senator Rubio. The only remaining Trump pick who looks
Speaker 1: like he's they're going to receive any substantial support from
Speaker 1: the Democrats is Labor Secretary Lorie Chavez Demurror. She was
Speaker 1: a former congressman from Oregon who actually had a number
Speaker 1: of Republicans openly opposing her because she's so pro union.
Speaker 1: But back to Patel, Gabbard and RFK, it looks like
Speaker 1: all three Mey get through, but just by the Pete
Speaker 1: hegsgeth margin of fifty to fifty with Pete received fifty
Speaker 1: Republican votes and then Vice President Jadvance cast the tie
Speaker 1: breaking vote in his favor. They all have a bit
Speaker 1: of controversy in their background. After twenty twenty. Pateel got
Speaker 1: very close to conspiracy theorists with the twenty twenty election,
Speaker 1: and then after that pretty close with mqanon. People said
Speaker 1: some very kind of out there things. Then there's RFK,
Speaker 1: who has got more stories than Mother Goose. He had
Speaker 1: some kind of a lot of questionings with vaccines that
Speaker 1: he's backed away from. He had the conversation where he
Speaker 1: brought a dead bear to Central Park. He had a
Speaker 1: brain worm, He had a very very ugly divorced from
Speaker 1: his first wife that unfortunately ended with her taking her
Speaker 1: own life. And there's a lot of pushback from the
Speaker 1: more religious wing of the GOP because of his positions
Speaker 1: on abortion, which are very very pro choice. And then lastly,
Speaker 1: the person I want to focus on today is Tulsi Gabbard.
Speaker 1: A lot of the hawkish wing of the GOP has
Speaker 1: opposed her primarily because of our positions on Edward Snowden,
Speaker 1: which Edward Snowden was an American who worked for the
Speaker 1: I guess the administrative state or the deep state, who
Speaker 1: found during that Obama's presidency, the American government was spy
Speaker 1: on every American and he leaked that information to a
Speaker 1: news outlet and had to then flee to Russia. And
Speaker 1: Tulsi and many people have wanted him assassinated. Many politicians
Speaker 1: have wanted him assassinated. And Tulsi does not have that
Speaker 1: same position against Noden that a lot of politicians do.
Speaker 1: And then she had a meeting with former Syrian dictator
Speaker 1: Bashir Alossade many years ago, who is no longer in power.
Speaker 1: These two stories are not relevant towards today. Alasade is
Speaker 1: obviously no longer in power in Syria and Edward Snodan
Speaker 1: is something that happened over a decade ago. But the
Speaker 1: mar of error for Republicans is very thin. With three
Speaker 1: Republicans basically hinting they're going to oppose all of Trump's nominees,
Speaker 1: that being McConnell, Murkowski, and Curtis McConnell from Kentucky, Mkowski
Speaker 1: from Alaska, and Curtis from Utah. It's a fifty fifty
Speaker 1: majority for these three people. It looks like they're all
Speaker 1: going to get in, but by the skin of their teeth,
Speaker 1: with absolutely no margin of error. And is Tulsi in
Speaker 1: particular that is important and is interesting because what she
Speaker 1: represents is a departure from Bush era Republicanism, Bush era
Speaker 1: neo conservatism, sort of the way that Jadvans did and
Speaker 1: he received a lot of pushback when he was running
Speaker 1: for Senate in twenty twenty two. But Tulsi is made
Speaker 1: it so central to her identity. She is a veteran.
Speaker 1: She has served in the military in war zones as
Speaker 1: a medic. She has been in Iraq, I think in Afghanistan,
Speaker 1: but I think one of definitely one of the other.
Speaker 1: And she has seen the toll of forever wars in
Speaker 1: a way that many members of Congress who have voted
Speaker 1: for these wars have never seen it. So her nomination,
Speaker 1: her being confirmed is a departure from a Republican party
Speaker 1: that many people have been looking to get passed for
Speaker 1: quite a long time. My guest this week has been
Speaker 1: fighting for Tulcie's nomination for weeks now, appearing everywhere in
Speaker 1: the media to tell centrals Republicans why they should support her.
Speaker 1: So we'll be back with Megan McCain after these messages.
Speaker 1: My guest this week is the host of the fantastic
Speaker 1: podcast Citizen McCain, who is actually my number one podcast
Speaker 1: of last year that I listened to and the and
Speaker 1: she has a great substack Megan McCain dot substack dot com.
Speaker 1: Megan McCain, Megan, you've had a very Bryan Yeah, we're
Speaker 1: very good friends. I know, I don't want to introduce that,
Speaker 1: but yeah, we're good friends anyway. All right, So, Megan,
Speaker 1: we you've had like a super busy few weeks. You've
Speaker 1: had a media like renaissance over Tulsi Cabard's Tulci Gabbard's confirmation,
Speaker 1: and it looks like she's finally over the hump after
Speaker 1: a lot of bump the roads. What has it been
Speaker 1: like on the inside as far as the anticipation whether
Speaker 1: or not she could be confirmed?
Speaker 2: So I never lost I always thought she was gonna
Speaker 2: be confirmed, which you can attest to, like I was
Speaker 2: always like, like I felt like I was. People were
Speaker 2: like gaslighting me that it wasn't gonna happen, and a
Speaker 2: lot of people were like, oh, you got to sacrifice someone,
Speaker 2: and it's obviously going to be the woman because like
Speaker 2: we lost women, and like I said, all and I
Speaker 2: feel like, because you know, like for people that don't
Speaker 2: know background, we're good friends because I'm around her so much,
Speaker 2: and I'm around her in public spaces where I have
Speaker 2: been able to see how people react to her. I
Speaker 2: don't think people were really aware of just her huge
Speaker 2: following and her grassroots support among like a very interesting
Speaker 2: demographic of American voters. So I never like thought it
Speaker 2: wouldn't happen. But I did like have to pull my
Speaker 2: fangs out a little bit and really use some of
Speaker 2: my like experience growing up in round political circles to
Speaker 2: like throw threats out, which I normally don't do. But
Speaker 2: I felt like it was warranted in that situation, and
Speaker 2: I just felt like there's a lot of senators that
Speaker 2: need reminding that this coalition is a broad one and
Speaker 2: it goes way beyond like Bush era politics that I
Speaker 2: think are like long gone. And there's a long winded answer.
Speaker 2: But I wasn't I wasn't worried about it, but like
Speaker 2: I went on a podcast with Sean Spicer and Mark
Speaker 2: Halpern and Dan Turntine the day after the hearing, and
Speaker 2: Sean was like, he straight up said she's disqualified, and
Speaker 2: we had a debate about it. He did not like
Speaker 2: her answer on Snowden and he said it was completely disqualifying,
Speaker 2: and we had a debate about it. We didn't like
Speaker 2: yell or anything, but we had a debate about it,
Speaker 2: and you know, I just it's been a really interesting
Speaker 2: experience just from the politics of it. But I'm she's
Speaker 2: you know, getting confirmed. I don't know when this airs,
Speaker 2: but it's getting's getting confirmed this week.
Speaker 1: It will be on Tuesday. So yeah, I think that
Speaker 1: the as few senators who were opposing her, I mean
Speaker 1: their problem. Rakowski may probably opposed her, and maybe McConnell
Speaker 1: and Curtis, but the number needed have basically all fallen
Speaker 1: by the wayside, which were Senator Young from Indiana sent
Speaker 1: her Langford from Oklahoma. They've come out and support of her.
Speaker 1: Senator Collins was an fairly early supporter, I mean for
Speaker 1: her as far as the moderate senators go, and Collins
Speaker 1: is in a much tougher reelection bid than anybody else
Speaker 1: if you would consider her being controversial. The internal argument,
Speaker 1: First of all, Tulsi's evolution. Do you think knowing her,
Speaker 1: that she's had one an internal evolution since you first
Speaker 1: met her when it comes to politics, having now being
Speaker 1: a Republican for being a Democrat.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, when I first met her, she was
Speaker 2: obviously a Democrat. She was running for president. It was
Speaker 2: like right before she was running for a president against
Speaker 2: you know, in the Democrat coalition, and she kind of,
Speaker 2: I think, experienced very similar things that I did, which
Speaker 2: you know, like it's obviously mine dissimilar because I was
Speaker 2: working in media, but in politics, like if you're just
Speaker 2: screamed at because you like want basic things, you like
Speaker 2: are patriotic and you love America and like you're religious
Speaker 2: and you love God, and you like love our military,
Speaker 2: and you're like abused publicly of it. It will change
Speaker 2: your perspective on the world. And I think, you know, honestly,
Speaker 2: Democrats have just gotten so progressive and so radical that
Speaker 2: she's not She's not like that at all. So I
Speaker 2: think her evolution was very natural and I of got
Speaker 2: to see it in real time.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think it's also funny when you have a
Speaker 1: Democrat friend who as an adult starts becoming a Republican,
Speaker 1: Like they start dropping these little like nuttings. They're like, hmm,
Speaker 1: that's an interesting comment you made.
Speaker 2: It.
Speaker 1: Let me internalize that for a second. I think so.
Speaker 2: Many friends like this, by the way, especially in the
Speaker 2: past post COVID time, and people that I like love
Speaker 2: dearly who are like the most red pilled, like like
Speaker 2: I like not to like give a shout out. My
Speaker 2: friend Nate, who lives in Virginia Beach I love to
Speaker 2: live in New York together has made this like complete.
Speaker 2: It is now like even more conservative than I am,
Speaker 2: and I definitely anecdotally in my life. Yet Democrats to
Speaker 2: understand the grave disaster of like generational disaster COVID did
Speaker 2: to an entire group of people.
Speaker 1: In this tense. I have a friend who is a
Speaker 1: former Democrat who like, how did like a Thomas Soul
Speaker 1: book with them? I go, how did you hear about
Speaker 1: Thomas Soule? I know how I know about him, but
Speaker 1: how did you hear about him? Yeah, no, it's super
Speaker 1: interesting that happened. I think a turning point for Tulsi,
Speaker 1: especially in relation to the media, was when she went
Speaker 1: after and destroyed Kamala Harris's bid first bid for the
Speaker 1: presidency during the debate. That ended Kamala Harris's entire bit,
Speaker 1: and that kind of altered fundamentally altered everyone's in the
Speaker 1: media's relation with them. You worked in the media for years,
Speaker 1: did you did you start noticing how people how did
Speaker 1: people talk about her like regular Democrats? Was that she was,
Speaker 1: you know, out to pasture at that point?
Speaker 2: You know, I specifically remember like at the View, you
Speaker 2: know that when she originally came on, it was like
Speaker 2: a much friendlier place for her, Like people were just
Speaker 2: much more you know, I think like like liked her
Speaker 2: a lot more. And then I remember she came on,
Speaker 2: was I think it was before that or after that.
Speaker 2: I don't remember, Like around that time when she had
Speaker 2: you know, shipped Vice President Harrison stage, and uh, there
Speaker 2: was definitely a shift of like questioning just like if
Speaker 2: her loyalty to the party and you know, things like that,
Speaker 2: and you know, the one of the things we've always
Speaker 2: bonded over is having like really insane stereotypes and perceptions
Speaker 2: of us in the media.
Speaker 1: I've met total see person I think twice. She's extremely stoic.
Speaker 1: She has the best posture ever met on a single person.
Speaker 1: I mean, considering my postures and this, I'm like, you're
Speaker 1: always standing up.
Speaker 2: Straight, hary thing she does.
Speaker 1: She's got great I think. I like, I noticed those
Speaker 1: things about people, like people have got great teeth, they're
Speaker 1: great posture and like things. I'm like, oh, that's really
Speaker 1: I got to learn how to stand up straight more often?
Speaker 1: Do you what? Does do you think that her misinterpretation
Speaker 1: from her career in the military, she I mean, I
Speaker 1: guess the word that people need to say about women,
Speaker 1: she's icy. Do you think that's about me too? Yeah,
Speaker 1: they've said that about you two. Do you think that
Speaker 1: that's where it is? It's just that you're not Jenna Bush.
Speaker 1: Not that's anything wrong with her, but like you know,
Speaker 1: it's not you're not you know, the morning news personality
Speaker 1: of like a bubbly woman and that has created being
Speaker 1: a woman definitely creates the perception of being icy. I
Speaker 1: don't think that her her personality as much of it
Speaker 1: than Mike Waltz's. Is it a personality, I think, or
Speaker 1: is it a position?
Speaker 2: I think just to be a strong woman, people will
Speaker 2: call you icy or call you a bitch. And I
Speaker 2: think I actually think that image of her has really
Speaker 2: changed a lot. I think people have gotten to know
Speaker 2: her a lot more. She's done a lot more personal
Speaker 2: interviews like on Joe Rogan and Me and on.
Speaker 1: Your podcast was great, Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 2: And by the way, I feel weird that I'm not
Speaker 2: her spokesperson and I'm not like you know, it's like
Speaker 2: we're just good friends. And I think people are just
Speaker 2: curious about why, because you know, I think on paper,
Speaker 2: it probably looks weird. She's vegan. She exercises every day,
Speaker 2: Like you know, I am not vegan. I don't. It's
Speaker 2: a different, much healthier life while than I do. And
Speaker 2: but the core of who we are is extremely is
Speaker 2: very similar.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think that people just assume you would
Speaker 1: always be like pro war or pro or they probably
Speaker 1: call you an ne O'Connor whatever, and it's obviously partially
Speaker 1: because of the background of you know, how your dad
Speaker 1: voted on a lot of things, but also I think
Speaker 1: because and I want to ask you about this specifically,
Speaker 1: the media is default pro war. Like the Iraq War.
Speaker 1: There was no voices in the mainstream media opposing that.
Speaker 1: Back twenty years ago, there was. I mean, the only
Speaker 1: day that Donald Trump got positive covered on MSNBC in
Speaker 1: his entire first term was the day that he struck
Speaker 1: Syria after the gas attack. He got wall to while
Speaker 1: positive coverage the Afghanistan withdrawal of Biden was a disaster,
Speaker 1: but it was panned, the idea was panned even more so.
Speaker 1: I think that part, and you could disagree with me, I
Speaker 1: think part of Tulsi's pushback is if you are even
Speaker 1: anything opposed to either the intelligence community or the war community,
Speaker 1: you are problematic in their eyes. I mean, I.
Speaker 2: Also think one of the things that became really from
Speaker 2: the experience of physically attending the hearing with her, one
Speaker 2: of the things that I became acutely aware of is
Speaker 2: I was like, oh my god, a lot of these people,
Speaker 2: I would say, probably like seventy five percent of the
Speaker 2: senators asking your questions, I was like they clearly don't
Speaker 2: know a war weary Iraq and Afghanistan veteran. They are
Speaker 2: obviously surrounded by, like, at least on the Republican side,
Speaker 2: like the Bush era coalition of people, especially in regards
Speaker 2: to foreign policy, is actually still quite strong in DC,
Speaker 2: super strong. I don't know people I know that, but
Speaker 2: they actually despite the fact that Bush was president when
Speaker 2: I was in high school. But it is I think
Speaker 2: that they are not aware that, even for me, the
Speaker 2: tenor and tone of the country and the country's attitude
Speaker 2: towards war has has shifted. And you don't need to,
Speaker 2: you know, take my word for it. Look at Trump
Speaker 2: and look at data and polling, and I think, you know,
Speaker 2: especially just like anecdotally in my life, two of my brothers,
Speaker 2: you know, did multiple tours in Iraq and Afghanistan. My
Speaker 2: one brother, Jimmy, enlisted when he was sixteen. My parents
Speaker 2: had to sign like a form that he could go
Speaker 2: in the army that young. You know, I'll never forget
Speaker 2: the first day when I say goodbye to him, when
Speaker 2: he deployed to Iraq the first time is horrific. And
Speaker 2: you know, even for like my brother Jimmy, like he's
Speaker 2: very isolationisty and he wouldn't mind me saying it. I
Speaker 2: have asked him in the past. Few minds me like
Speaker 2: sharing that. And like my brother in law, who has
Speaker 2: done many tours in Iraq and Afghanistan, this still serving
Speaker 2: like it doesn't feel it feels like very aligned with Tulsi.
Speaker 2: And I think the thing that some of these older
Speaker 2: generational politicians don't understand is there's a lot of people
Speaker 2: in this country, if you served or didn't, that we're
Speaker 2: lied to about weapons of mass destruction, that have been
Speaker 2: given ample reasons not to trust the government. In a
Speaker 2: post COVID time, I stopped trusting. I was a lot
Speaker 2: more trusting and like naive about the government and people
Speaker 2: running it pre COVID than I am after now. I mean,
Speaker 2: I I am like, you know, probably more conspiratorial than
Speaker 2: people you know better than anyone, and very defiant about
Speaker 2: like I do not trust these people.
Speaker 1: Well. I think Tulsi's opinions also line up with another veteran,
Speaker 1: which is JD. Vance. I think that you have you know,
Speaker 1: I think I think for millennials.
Speaker 2: One thing like she's also like a big supporter of
Speaker 2: Israel and like at post October seventh, like went to
Speaker 2: the Israel March with me and like understands that there
Speaker 2: are situations where like you should be supporting different countries
Speaker 2: and different situations like right, I think there's this like
Speaker 2: image of her like a bond villain, like it's just
Speaker 2: for no circumstances ever, and I think people just are
Speaker 2: aren't really nuanced enough to to you know, read or
Speaker 2: listen to all her thoughts and perspective.
Speaker 1: Right, and when I don't, I don't want to paint
Speaker 1: her a picture.
Speaker 2: And as a complete to you.
Speaker 1: No, I know that, I just I don't want to. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's important enough to paint her a picture as an isolationists.
Speaker 1: I mean, but there are some senators where if you
Speaker 1: give them five minutes to tell them why we should
Speaker 1: invade Mongolia, they would be one hundred percent for it.
Speaker 1: Like there are some people who before literally any.
Speaker 2: Single I think lind Graham would probably invade Canada given
Speaker 2: the right reason.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean no, it's it's a where they would yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean where they would be like, yeah, military ships
Speaker 1: in Greenland, let's go for it. And there's no there's
Speaker 1: no war. You know that you would have spent more
Speaker 1: time convincing them against a war than convinced them for
Speaker 1: a war. And I think that if you have the
Speaker 1: experience of being in a war zone, especially, I think
Speaker 1: didn't still see that she was a medic, right, she
Speaker 1: was a medican the war zone. So she probably some
Speaker 1: people die and that probably really shapes you your opinion
Speaker 1: on how the people the what's what's the old quote
Speaker 1: old men who vote for wars that young men go
Speaker 1: to or something like that. I think that probably definitely
Speaker 1: definitely forms your opinion when it comes to the position
Speaker 1: of national intelligence. Why, I mean, why do you think
Speaker 1: the intelligent community fears her? And why do you think
Speaker 1: that she's be perfect for the job, because I.
Speaker 2: Think they know that she's going to root out corruption
Speaker 2: the way that like, you know, Doge is doing. Even
Speaker 2: though you can like have your opinions on like Elon's role,
Speaker 2: which is totally fine, But I think the one thing
Speaker 2: that President Trump has made clear and his you know,
Speaker 2: coalition in his cabinet has made clear to me is
Speaker 2: like this is a time of extreme change. Americans want
Speaker 2: extreme change. I felt like I really would not have
Speaker 2: survived another four year or the country wouldn't have survived
Speaker 2: another four years with Kamala's leadership, because we're just like
Speaker 2: drowning in so many different ways. And I think the
Speaker 2: intelligence community is aware that she's in some ways an
Speaker 2: outsider another way is not just given her history and
Speaker 2: background in the military and in Congress. I also just,
Speaker 2: I mean candidly, I think there's an element of sexism
Speaker 2: in this, which is not something I throw around easily
Speaker 2: at all. The fact that you know, these Congress people
Speaker 2: were calling her Tulsi instead of lieutenant colonel or congresswoman
Speaker 2: I found offensive if you're just not going to call
Speaker 2: like cash Patel cash in a.
Speaker 1: Hearing, which is the name of his coin. Coin I
Speaker 1: think is the coin. I'm not joking yet.
Speaker 2: And I think she would be really good at the
Speaker 2: job because a like I, you know, I just know
Speaker 2: from being around her so much, she takes like the
Speaker 2: national security of this country to heart and to bed
Speaker 2: with her at night. Like she's, you know, deeply fearful
Speaker 2: of our enemies. She knows who they are. She she
Speaker 2: is very very patriotic and committed, and she's going to
Speaker 2: work her ass off, and I legitimately believe that she
Speaker 2: will make this country safer. I was telling her in person.
Speaker 2: I don't think she mind me sharing this with you. Like,
Speaker 2: I love going to New Orleans. It's one of my
Speaker 2: favorite cities. I'm like pretty scared to go to Bourbon
Speaker 2: Street now since the terror attack and Jen, Yeah, a
Speaker 2: lot of things that aren't that I'm you know, I'm not.
Speaker 2: I don't live in a place of fear, but like,
Speaker 2: I'm more uncomfortable than I used to be, even every
Speaker 2: time I go to a big concert, you know, even
Speaker 2: sometimes a movie theater. Like yeah, So I just think
Speaker 2: she's she's committed in a way that I just don't
Speaker 2: think other people would be to rooting out corruption and
Speaker 2: getting to the bottom of up.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, I I know from my personal experience.
Speaker 1: I do not go see big movies on the opening weekends.
Speaker 1: I haven't since the Joker shooting. I don't. I don't
Speaker 1: really love outdoor concerts since the Vegas shooting. And I
Speaker 1: mean I'm in I'm in New Orleans right now, so
Speaker 1: I'm not really New Orleans. But but but uh, the uh,
Speaker 1: but the thing is, like I just don't understand why
Speaker 1: every time we have a terrorist attack or a lone
Speaker 1: wolf attack, we hear afterwards, oh this person was on
Speaker 1: our Intelligence Communities watch list, Well, how did they get
Speaker 1: a gun or a bomb? Like, how did no one
Speaker 1: that would follow up? Why we're like that is the
Speaker 1: one thing I never understand. You know a few of
Speaker 1: my friends of mind, like Ryan, the intelligent communities basically
Speaker 1: people read the newspaper and tell you what was in
Speaker 1: the news. Like they're not these are not like insanely active.
Speaker 1: You know, a network of FBI agents taking on the
Speaker 1: Soviet Union anymore? One person on Twitter, one person on Twitter,
Speaker 1: So we have to confirm Toulci and then she has
Speaker 1: to make sure spies are hot again.
Speaker 2: I'm part to disappoint that. I don't think that's a priority.
Speaker 1: Which was hysterically funny when it comes to like the
Speaker 1: media apparatus, because you worked for Fox, ABC and I
Speaker 1: think one other.
Speaker 2: One rights NBC. Yeah, iHeartRadio got a long behind me
Speaker 2: working in spaces you.
Speaker 1: Said, you said oftentimes that, like you said, especiallybout ABC,
Speaker 1: like there's no one there who likes Republicans. Yeah, if
Speaker 1: you're I.
Speaker 2: Encountered in the almost you know, four and a half
Speaker 2: years I was there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean since Trump won, the left seems very defeated.
Speaker 1: I mean they just I've never seen the left kind
Speaker 1: of like this, where they don't really have a coherent message.
Speaker 1: You have like Maxine Waters or Chuck Schumer like raising
Speaker 1: their canes in the air as they're like pro image
Speaker 1: is just they don't like what Chuck Sheamer said. The
Speaker 1: American public has never been more aroused than it is
Speaker 1: right now. I mean, they don't have a coherent leader,
Speaker 1: a message, or even like a chant that they get
Speaker 1: sit there and rally around. It seems to be coming
Speaker 1: in the media as well as far as the reaction
Speaker 1: towards Trump, where they it almost looks like a surrender.
Speaker 1: Do you think that the media getting it very, very
Speaker 1: wrong and getting the appetite of the public so wrong
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty four changes anything.
Speaker 2: Look the ratings for CNN. I mean, I don't remember
Speaker 2: the exact show, but it's like reruns of Jeopardy at
Speaker 2: three in the morning get better than they're making up
Speaker 2: what show it is. But it's like, you know, when
Speaker 2: as many people are watching my Instagram stories as your
Speaker 2: morning show, Like, I think there's an issue. I don't
Speaker 2: trust any of these networks. I do still watch Fox,
Speaker 2: and my husband works for them, but obviously I'm.
Speaker 1: Their ratings are through the rooms, so you know, the
Speaker 1: way you want.
Speaker 2: And I don't include them in this analysis, but I
Speaker 2: think that, you know, just from my personal experience, it's
Speaker 2: not just that they don't care about understanding how you know,
Speaker 2: fifty five percent of the American public lives, so that
Speaker 2: they have a disdain for it. And I think when
Speaker 2: you see like Margaret Brennan's attitude and behavior and body
Speaker 2: language when she's interviewing JD. Vance and then like screaming
Speaker 2: about how Republicans are going to fix the price of bacon,
Speaker 2: like you know, you probably live in a multimillion dollar
Speaker 2: place someplace in you know, the belt Way, and you know,
Speaker 2: I would love to know how many like normal Americans
Speaker 2: she's speaking to, because it didn't come off like a lot.
Speaker 2: And I think, look, I just don't you know, maybe
Speaker 2: this makes me like a masochist or gross person or
Speaker 2: something or not a mascist a statist. I really love
Speaker 2: this moment, Like I love that everybody that's been so
Speaker 2: disgusting to conservatives is like around and having a hard
Speaker 2: time and you know, not to like give you TMI,
Speaker 2: but like I've had quite a few people reach out
Speaker 2: to me wanting to do interviews with lots of different
Speaker 2: friends of mine, not just TOLSI, and I'm not helping them. Yeah, thing,
Speaker 2: but crap all over me and people like me. For years,
Speaker 2: I've basically been called an extremist and a radical, particularly the.
Speaker 1: Past, and those are the nice words exactly.
Speaker 2: You know, you guys are drowning in this. In this
Speaker 2: you can you can figure out how to get your
Speaker 2: way out of it. Now, I'm not going to help you.
Speaker 1: You're listening to It's a numbers game with Ryan Grodowski.
Speaker 1: We'll be right back after this message. What is amazing
Speaker 1: to me is that it wasn't like they they bought
Speaker 1: in on progressive ideas, on things that no one believes in,
Speaker 1: going into like the like transgenderism argument for like miners,
Speaker 1: like every leftist argument they believed like wholesale. There was
Speaker 1: nothing that they pushed back on for years. I mean,
Speaker 1: I mean New York Times only recently started being like, hey,
Speaker 1: a bunch of studies that transgenderism in children is not
Speaker 1: really not but transgender surgery in children is not really wonderful,
Speaker 1: and these drugs are not great for miners or twelve
Speaker 1: years old. That took like six seven years to come
Speaker 1: out like they did not have a single voice in
Speaker 1: the woods to say hey, like there was no diversity
Speaker 1: of opinion whatsoever. And I know, like the La Times
Speaker 1: is hiring somebody right now, but I haven't seen I
Speaker 1: mean any kind of come to Jesus moment on any
Speaker 1: of these networks as far as like this big reshuffle.
Speaker 1: I mean, they're having these openings now, these people are leaving,
Speaker 1: but I can't imagine an open conservative taking any of
Speaker 1: these jobs.
Speaker 2: Well, that's part of the problem is it's not that
Speaker 2: they just are maybe not offering, Like I mean, I've
Speaker 2: had many offers since I left The View and I
Speaker 2: will never ever work in cable news. I mean I
Speaker 2: did not have you know, I'm not including Fox, but
Speaker 2: I'm not working at Box and we're planning on it.
Speaker 2: But I would never work in There's nothing, there's no
Speaker 2: amount of money, there's no amounta because it doesn't matter
Speaker 2: if you're the token person. It matters that like the
Speaker 2: producers and the network and the host and everybody just
Speaker 2: wants to railroad you and you're this person that's just
Speaker 2: going to sit there and get screamed at. I mean,
Speaker 2: I think that man that is on CNN does a
Speaker 2: great job. I'm sorry I forgot his name because I
Speaker 2: don't watch CNN, but there's like a token got Jennings
Speaker 2: sut Jennings. Yes, the clips him. He does like a
Speaker 2: very great job. But like, I don't know if I
Speaker 2: can swear on This's like, who the fuck wants to
Speaker 2: do that?
Speaker 1: Every day I was on, I was a Jim Banks
Speaker 1: is inauguration and I saw Scott there and I looked
Speaker 1: at Jim afterwards, and I Senator Jim banksman aiain and
Speaker 1: I said, wow, I thought I was on the most
Speaker 1: famous person who was on CNN on this in this
Speaker 1: room right now. But that did not happen. His producer
Speaker 1: producer I'm seen and actually emailed me yesterday. I said,
Speaker 1: would you come on our network? And I'm like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I was like, I think I'm banned for life from
Speaker 1: your network. I don't think I can come on your network,
Speaker 1: but I.
Speaker 2: Think gradge of honor.
Speaker 1: I was like, you probably should reach out to your
Speaker 1: higher ups to see if I'm allowed to come on,
Speaker 1: And then they never replied to me.
Speaker 2: So I don't know it's worth whenever they And again
Speaker 2: I'm not trying to have like a struggle session about
Speaker 2: how much we hate CNN, but like they've done this
Speaker 2: to themselves, Like they've asked me to come on quite
Speaker 2: a bit in the last year, and I always say
Speaker 2: no because it's just really not worth my time for
Speaker 2: a lot of different reasons. And I'm shocked did they
Speaker 2: keep asking, like, yeah, I'm not interested in going on
Speaker 2: with like you know, I just and I feel bad
Speaker 2: because they have friends that work at SEEING and know
Speaker 2: we're really nice people. But I think how many.
Speaker 1: Times can you be called a racist? Is like the
Speaker 1: question like how like that is the honest to god
Speaker 1: question when you were ever? When ever I did CNN.
Speaker 1: The way it works in cable news is you get
Speaker 1: a email from the producers a few hours before the
Speaker 1: show with all the topics that you're going to be
Speaker 1: covering on it. Like when I Owe did Appy Phillips, it
Speaker 1: was an hour worth of topics, and then about forty
Speaker 1: five minutes before you go on set, they change every
Speaker 1: topic and all the research you've done is completely yeah,
Speaker 1: And then every question is like the first question, so
Speaker 1: Republicans are racists? Second question, follow up, follow up thing,
Speaker 1: why are Republicans so racist? And you have to sit
Speaker 1: there and defend and make an argument the entire time,
Speaker 1: and there are some really good lesson Van Jones was
Speaker 1: always a pleasure to work with a lot of other people.
Speaker 1: That woman Allison is having a nervous breakdown on CNN
Speaker 1: that she was never paid enough, but she has two
Speaker 1: bachelor's degrees. She was never a nice person to be
Speaker 1: your own, So, I mean, I guess it's the person.
Speaker 1: But what is this moment like for you being somebody
Speaker 1: who was critical of Trump for so long and for
Speaker 1: personal reasons and I think for philosophical positions, there's a
Speaker 1: lot to like about this moment right now with the
Speaker 1: Trump administration is there, and you're not like a maga
Speaker 1: Republican though that's your new brand that they're titling you with.
Speaker 2: I don't think maga people are think that about me,
Speaker 2: though I think.
Speaker 1: Maybe they're warmed up to you.
Speaker 2: A lot left doing people probably think that, but I
Speaker 2: don't think maga people think that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but what is this moment like for you as
Speaker 1: somebody who was critical of him but kind of likes
Speaker 1: what he does?
Speaker 2: So obviously there's personal right of course over ten years
Speaker 2: old that you know. What's so funny is even like
Speaker 2: the most ardent Trump supporters or like if somebody said
Speaker 2: that I'm about my family, I feel the same way
Speaker 2: you did, like you should tend to give me a pass.
Speaker 2: And also, I know polling wise, Trump's criticism of my
Speaker 2: dad and the con family is one of the few
Speaker 2: things that ever made his support drop with his face
Speaker 2: whatever that's worth. Like, I don't like it, but it's
Speaker 2: very old and I you know, you know me, like
Speaker 2: I'm a pretty religious person. I'm a very spiritual person,
Speaker 2: and my relationship with God is very important to me,
Speaker 2: and forgiveness is a big part of my life. And
Speaker 2: I've forgiven Trump for me, and I'm forgiven for him.
Speaker 2: I've forgiven him a long time ago because for me,
Speaker 2: I just want to be a happy person, to live
Speaker 2: a happy life. And it's just like for me, I
Speaker 2: have let this go a long time ago. But I,
Speaker 2: like everybody else, I've experienced, you know, like all the
Speaker 2: stuff everybody else did, I did too during COVID post COVID,
Speaker 2: the culture war stuff, the political stuff like Biden was
Speaker 2: just drowning this country on many different levels. And I
Speaker 2: think just like holistically having this like decred but old
Speaker 2: man whose brain was mashed potatoes. Leading the country was
Speaker 2: a very scary experience. It's true. I've said that numerous times.
Speaker 2: I stand by that his brains mass potatoes, and I.
Speaker 1: Don't, right, I love how by the way, can you
Speaker 1: just say for one second you like the Bidens were
Speaker 1: never you are like god parents, Like there was this
Speaker 1: image that they were their best friend.
Speaker 2: They the Bidens were friends with my parents when they
Speaker 2: were younger, when they were like you know, when they
Speaker 2: first met in like got the late seventies, and then
Speaker 2: obviously when my dad was very sick. I President Biden's
Speaker 2: son Bo died of the same brain cancer my dad did,
Speaker 2: and he was very kind to us during that process.
Speaker 2: That would never say different. He was lovely. I think
Speaker 2: he was a very different person than than he is now,
Speaker 2: for whatever that's worth. And then that my personal backstory
Speaker 2: is they asked me to endorse him during the convention
Speaker 2: when he was nominated, and I said no because I'm
Speaker 2: a Republican, and you know, like it just I didn't.
Speaker 2: I honestly like his choice of calm life. I was
Speaker 2: so petrified, like like Treby is someone that you could
Speaker 2: never do anything like this, and just like I'm not
Speaker 2: a Democrat and when I said no, they never spoke
Speaker 2: to me again.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I just people need to know that because
Speaker 1: people have this interpretation that you guys were like vacationing
Speaker 1: every summer together.
Speaker 2: I don't think I've ever even actually been to Delaware.
Speaker 2: I think you're on an amtrak.
Speaker 1: That's funny. So yeah, but I think that for a
Speaker 1: lot of people who are who didn't like full out
Speaker 1: leave the party and join the Lincoln Project in the
Speaker 1: last eight years, they're like, they're like Trump's doing a
Speaker 1: good job, like they can open to them, and they
Speaker 1: said Trump is doing a good job. I was talking
Speaker 1: to somebody I did a speech yesterday in California, and
Speaker 1: they were asking me, like, wow, I feel this person
Speaker 1: or that person. I said, I like them enough, like
Speaker 1: they're politicians. I'm not like I like them enough until
Speaker 1: I don't like them. But I think that a lot
Speaker 1: of Republicans are who didn't go along with Trump for
Speaker 1: the first eight years, are at the point with him
Speaker 1: right now saying I like him enough, like he's good
Speaker 1: enough right now.
Speaker 2: I like again, like character wise is just not you
Speaker 2: know right what I her, But I mean policy wise,
Speaker 2: I'm thrilled, like not to be like gross or whatever,
Speaker 2: but like I'm having a great time right now. I
Speaker 2: want to be like whatever. But like everything I said
Speaker 2: was gonna happen and got screamed at and harassed and abused,
Speaker 2: you know, in lots of different spaces has come true.
Speaker 2: And everybody I don't like it looks like a moron
Speaker 2: because they got everything wrong. And this really is like
Speaker 2: a renaissance for conservatism. And you know, to be someone
Speaker 2: who has been like a lifelong conservative on TV for
Speaker 2: so long talking about it and to have this moment
Speaker 2: where we're cool and popular and culturally cool, and you know,
Speaker 2: I can now like I have two young girls, as
Speaker 2: you know, and I can send them to My eldest
Speaker 2: daughter is a really incredible swimmer, Like she's four years
Speaker 2: old and she loves it. She's very good. She's already
Speaker 2: in advanced classes. It's definitely gonna be her sport. And
Speaker 2: like I'm not gonna lie like seeing Lea Thomas really
Speaker 2: freaking out about her continuing in this sport and now
Speaker 2: like Trump signed all of this, and now I know
Speaker 2: that like she can compete against other girls, like is awesome,
Speaker 2: Like like I am so happy. I I and honestly,
Speaker 2: like Tulsi's inclusion in the cabinet to me is like
Speaker 2: even just metaphorically and and our case as well, it's
Speaker 2: an olive branch to you know, I think I'm probably
Speaker 2: more like in their space politically, I get I don't know.
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm more probably more conservative than they are, but.
Speaker 1: Like definitely I think you're more definitely concern of the
Speaker 1: RFK is, but I think that you have concerns over
Speaker 1: our food supply, like.
Speaker 2: So excited for red like red dye to be banned
Speaker 2: and stuff, and I'm really excited, like right now, I
Speaker 2: choose to be optimistic and I really genuinely feel excited
Speaker 2: about things. And you know, I can table my personal
Speaker 2: feelings about Trump, but it's don't even like it because
Speaker 2: I don't like hate him. I just like have personal
Speaker 2: viewed from a long time ago for what he did
Speaker 2: to my dad. But I also think, no, I don't.
Speaker 2: I think the thing the media sort of underestimates is
Speaker 2: like I don't care anymore, and I don't think they
Speaker 2: care anymore. I think this is like old news from
Speaker 2: the past, and that doesn't mean like I'm going to
Speaker 2: be hanging out at mar a lago or anything. It
Speaker 2: just means that I'm like very happy with the policy
Speaker 2: and hanet decisions. I really love a ton of his
Speaker 2: cabinet choices, and I really feel much safer right now.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there is a there's a I can't describe, but
Speaker 1: it is a feeling in the air. And just one
Speaker 1: last point about a cultural change. I was in give
Speaker 1: a speech in downtown LA yesterday and as I'm peeling
Speaker 1: out of the event space, I see this young black guy,
Speaker 1: tall black guy with a giant Trump twenty twenty four
Speaker 1: hoodie on in downtown LA. Like I was like, this
Speaker 1: is this would never have been anything I could only imagine,
Speaker 1: Like just I don't know two years ago, it does
Speaker 1: feel like we have all the optimism going for us
Speaker 1: and it's kind of ours to lose. Makes the left
Speaker 1: is seen.
Speaker 2: Is also like starting to interrupt you. Like I was
Speaker 2: trying to explain this to like friends of mine. We're Democrats,
Speaker 2: and like it's not just a political problem, but that's
Speaker 2: a great one. It is a social and branding problem.
Speaker 2: Democrats are seen as like hysterical, they'll run to hr
Speaker 2: if you use a wrong pronoun. They're obsessed with, like
Speaker 2: you know, culture, stuff. They want your kids, all your
Speaker 2: kids to be trans like there. It is such a
Speaker 2: monument of insanity that I wouldn't like if you like
Speaker 2: tasked me with Megan fixed this. I actually don't know
Speaker 2: where I would start because it's such a mess. But
Speaker 2: I do know that David Hogg is not the answer
Speaker 2: and that you haven't learned lessons.
Speaker 1: When they when he announced he was running eye laught
Speaker 1: when he won, I was like, wait a second. You
Speaker 1: guys are like this is the this is your outreach.
Speaker 1: And even his like Cam Kazinski whatever that kid's name is,
Speaker 1: who was in the school, Like yeah, yeah, he was like,
Speaker 1: are you guys crazy?
Speaker 2: Like they learned no lessons? If you think a gun
Speaker 2: grabbing you know, pronoun bio twenty four year old progressive
Speaker 2: who's you know? I mean, respect is horrific. He's famous
Speaker 2: because of a horrific tragedy. Like it's just so you know,
Speaker 2: your problem is many things, but most of it is
Speaker 2: also men in America don't like you or trust you
Speaker 2: because they think you're weird, and it's like you don't
Speaker 2: have like you know, I I guess the chair. I
Speaker 2: don't know anything about him, but I guess he's like
Speaker 2: maybe an image of like a more working everyman. But
Speaker 2: I just can't believe. I honestly thought it was like
Speaker 2: a clarity when they nominated him.
Speaker 1: For by right. But the problem with their idea of
Speaker 1: working everyman's is it's like somebody in like working class face,
Speaker 1: like it is like it's not like it's like this.
Speaker 2: Just play that cosplay.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's cosplay and it's obvious cosplay, and they
Speaker 1: just can't they it's so endemic that it's it's it's
Speaker 1: so problematic and it's such a big turn off to
Speaker 1: both young people and men, and young people who, by
Speaker 1: the way, were really who had their formative lives changed
Speaker 1: by COVID. I mean gen X, sorry gen Z. Rather
Speaker 1: is two different generations before and after COVID generation Make
Speaker 1: McCain thank you for doing this, Thank you for being
Speaker 1: on What So Citizen McCain is your podcast. I highly
Speaker 1: recommend it. I listen every single week.
Speaker 2: Way to come back soon.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you let me know. That's it's a fun, fun podcast.
Speaker 1: They talk everything from culture to being moms to politics.
Speaker 2: I'm like, I'm such a shit talk No, it's.
Speaker 1: So Yeah, it's much more gossiply than this podcast, but
Speaker 1: it's good. It's good. And then your substack is Megan
Speaker 1: McCain dot substack dot com. I highly recommend everyone just
Speaker 1: check out her podcast and look at her substack. It's
Speaker 1: so good. Thank you, thank you, thank you for being on.
Speaker 2: Thank you, Ryan. I'm so happy for your new podcast
Speaker 2: and I can't wait to see you and DC soon.
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening this week's episode of A Numbers
Speaker 1: Game with Ryan Grodski. Please like and subscribe on Apple Podcasts,
Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, or wherever you get your podcasts. Tune in
Speaker 1: next week. I'll see you there