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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, and

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Speaker 2: there's Charles W. Chuck Bryant, and there's Jerry who's just

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Speaker 2: flitting around us, sprinkling us with fairy dust so we

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Speaker 2: can fly around with their fear and of course all

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Speaker 2: that makes this stuff.

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Speaker 1: You should know. That's right, a fairy petition.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm excited about this one. I asked for this.

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Speaker 2: I think fairies are cool, and we're going to talk

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Speaker 2: about them because I realized I had a very limited

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Speaker 2: understanding of what fairies are, what qualifies as fairies, where

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Speaker 2: they came from, what they can do, what they do do,

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Speaker 2: all that stuff. So we're going to get into it. Chuck,

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Speaker 2: when we talk today about fairies.

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Speaker 3: That's right, and I think it can be summed up

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Speaker 3: best by saying, fairies have existed in many forms in

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Speaker 3: lore throughout parts of Europe for a long long time.

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Speaker 3: And sometimes they're good fairies, sometimes they're bad fairies, sometimes

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Speaker 3: they're evil, sometimes they're fun.

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Speaker 2: There you go, that's all you need to know.

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Speaker 3: And now we're gonna talk about all of that over

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Speaker 3: and over for the next forty minutes.

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Speaker 2: Well, what's really weird that The first thing I didn't

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Speaker 2: know is that fairies as we understand them today are

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Speaker 2: relatively recent concepts. And that because, like you said, they

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Speaker 2: pop up in lore all over the place at different times,

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Speaker 2: going back a very long time. There's it's not like

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Speaker 2: some groups said, hey, these are what fairies are and

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Speaker 2: it just spread. Instead, groups around Europe in particular, came

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Speaker 2: up with these concepts of things that had fairy traits,

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Speaker 2: but they didn't they didn't put the whole thing together

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Speaker 2: as fairies until much later. So no one can really

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Speaker 2: agree on what exactly a definition of fairies are, aside

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Speaker 2: from something that they're kind of human like usually and

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Speaker 2: they're associated with magical powers some way or another.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, because if you tried to do that, it would

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Speaker 3: be like, well, here are Irish fairies from this period

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Speaker 3: and they're like this, and here are Scottish fairies from

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Speaker 3: this period and they're like this, and these come from

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Speaker 3: Scandinavia in this period and they're completely different, and here's

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Speaker 3: their stories, which is what folklore is. It's different everywhere.

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Speaker 3: The actual word fairy is much more recent than the

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Speaker 3: lore of the fairy. It didn't come around in the

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Speaker 3: language until late medieval period, but the law of fairy

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Speaker 3: goes back much, much, much further, and from the beginning.

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Speaker 3: I guess we need to talk a little bit about

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Speaker 3: elves because they are sort of in lockstep with fairies

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Speaker 3: in that lore in a way. One way is that

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Speaker 3: elves were not you know, the kind of fun, lovely elves.

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Speaker 3: They're not making cookies in a tree back in the

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Speaker 3: early days. They were usually associated in the early days

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Speaker 3: with illness, with rash, with health problems. If your cows

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Speaker 3: all died, it could have been the work of elves.

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Speaker 1: Kind of an impy kind of creature.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but that demonstrates like the idea that they brought, say,

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Speaker 2: disease or illness, especially mysterious suddenly on setting disease or illness,

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Speaker 2: like that's associated with fairies or elves in this case,

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Speaker 2: and that also pops up in other places too. But

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Speaker 2: they just didn't call them elves. They called them other things.

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Speaker 2: But you just kind of see some like underpinnings of

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Speaker 2: things that came to be part of fairy lore. And

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Speaker 2: eventually they were like, all this stuff is so different,

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Speaker 2: We're just gonna have to chop the fairies up. Into

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Speaker 2: different camps and categories, which they eventually did. We'll talk

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Speaker 2: about that later, but one of the one of the

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Speaker 2: things that they figured out, there's a guy named Ronald

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Speaker 2: Hutton who as a folklore scholar from the Anglo Saxon period.

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Speaker 2: He didn't live in that time, that's his his focus,

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Speaker 2: I guess, And he said, there's like clues here there

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Speaker 2: because nobody sat down for at the very earliest periods

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Speaker 2: and said, here's what fairies are. Future historian, go tell

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Speaker 2: everybody about it. They just pop up here there, and

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Speaker 2: they seem to pop up not just in folklore but

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Speaker 2: in actual like scholarly works from the early medieval period

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Speaker 2: where people are like, oh, yeah, this guy ran into

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Speaker 2: a fairy and here's his story.

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Speaker 1: That's right, he did.

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Speaker 3: You know, if you look at the name as far

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Speaker 3: as like elves always being like empish or bad or monstrous,

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Speaker 3: even that's not necessarily true because there is a name

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Speaker 3: ae l f w I ny I guess would that

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Speaker 3: be pronounced elf line off line?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? I think so that's a great band name.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, not too bad. Ex it's an Anglo Saxon name,

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Speaker 3: but it means elf friend. So that's an indication that

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Speaker 3: you know, there were friendly elves and this came from

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Speaker 3: Ronald Hutton. And when Ronald Hutton talks.

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Speaker 1: People listen, Wow a joke for our genexen boomer friends.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. So a lot of people say, well, okay,

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Speaker 2: what would make the most sense is that elves, fairies,

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Speaker 2: these kind of like supernatural creatures that live in close

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Speaker 2: proximity and interact sometimes with humans, probably came from the

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Speaker 2: early gods and the early nature spirits, and it wasn't

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Speaker 2: until Christianity came along that they were kind of wiped

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Speaker 2: out or demonized, literally demonized, and in Ireland in particular,

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Speaker 2: they're like, yeah, they're actually related to one of the

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Speaker 2: last native indigenous magic using people who lived in Ireland

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Speaker 2: before the modern Irish people like us alive today came along,

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Speaker 2: in particular the Tua dey Donna. They were like, again,

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Speaker 2: like a magic using people. They were people of the

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Speaker 2: goddess Danu, who was also known as the Morrigan. And

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Speaker 2: they said, okay, this is what elves and fairies evolved

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Speaker 2: into from this group, this magic using group, as humans

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Speaker 2: kind of came in and pushed them out into the

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Speaker 2: rural areas.

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Speaker 3: Did you just feel the entirety of our d and

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Speaker 3: d audience stirring in their seat when you said magic user.

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Speaker 2: And you get this one too cleric, They're.

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Speaker 1: All like, what did he just Did you just say

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Speaker 1: magic users?

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Speaker 2: Did he say fighter instead of night?

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Speaker 3: So those irish elves, like you said, descended from them

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Speaker 3: and lived on in fairy forts or fairy mounds, these

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Speaker 3: sort of raised structures. If you are an archaeologist, you

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Speaker 3: will say, actually, those are not for fairies. They were

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Speaker 3: where ancient humans lived. But that notion persists, the magical

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Speaker 3: notion persists such today that still in some places you

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Speaker 3: cannot build roads where there are these places because not

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Speaker 3: of the fact that ancient humans might be buried there,

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Speaker 3: but because of the supernatural menace that might befall you

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Speaker 3: if you disturb it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I saw that archaeologists are like, great, for

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Speaker 2: whatever reason we're preserving these archeological sites. That's fantastic. But yeah,

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Speaker 2: the most recent I could find was there was a

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Speaker 2: highway being built in County Claire in nineteen ninety nine

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Speaker 2: and they were gonna they were gonna basically tear up

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Speaker 2: a ferry bush, and people were like, you do not

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Speaker 2: want to do that, and they actually built. They moved

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Speaker 2: the road over so they didn't remove this ferry bush.

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Speaker 2: This is almost in the twenty first century that they

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Speaker 2: did this, you know. So there is this idea of

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Speaker 2: you know, fairies do exist to some degree, the people

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Speaker 2: believe in it. And it's not just from this ancient

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Speaker 2: folkal or tradition. It actually was revived in the early

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Speaker 2: twentieth century in Ireland became part of like nationalist pride,

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Speaker 2: which is why it survives in such strength today as

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Speaker 2: we'll see.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and was not you know, kind of Concurrently, while

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Speaker 3: this was happening in Northern Europe, the British Isles like Scandinavia,

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Speaker 3: Germany and the British Isles mainly, it was also at

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Speaker 3: the same time coming out of classic Greek and Roman stories.

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Speaker 3: Basically this is where the sort of the human appearing

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Speaker 3: fairy kind of comes more into play. That lived these

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Speaker 3: very lavish lifestyles. They had kings and queens stuff like that.

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Speaker 3: Not necessarily saying they were human, because sometimes they were

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Speaker 3: sometimes they were not, but they seem to always have

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Speaker 3: some sort of connection to magic in some.

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Speaker 2: Way, right, yes, and.

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Speaker 3: Didn't like people, didn't like like real regular humans or

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Speaker 3: at least didn't trust them.

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Speaker 2: Right, And it's from this belief in nymphs and satyrs. Again,

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Speaker 2: these are like wood dwelling sprites, magical people. They bear

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Speaker 2: a really strong resemblance to elves and the British Isles.

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Speaker 2: But again, these things evolved in an isolated manner. I think,

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Speaker 2: I mean, I guess the Romans did make it all

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Speaker 2: the way to Britain, so I guess it's possible they

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Speaker 2: brought the ideas of nymphs and satyrs with them, but

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Speaker 2: I don't know. I definitely have the impression that this

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Speaker 2: stuff evolved from the Celts independently. So, but the name

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Speaker 2: fairy actually comes from the Roman mythology of the fates

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Speaker 2: fairy well, fates led to fairy in English fay and fairy,

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Speaker 2: fae and fae r i e. Were magical or uncanny.

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Speaker 2: There was an adjective that described that, and in fact,

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Speaker 2: if you came down with sudden illness you were considered

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Speaker 2: to be fay struck or fairy struck. And get this, Chuck,

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Speaker 2: I saw that the word stroke today for becoming suddenly paralyzed,

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Speaker 2: comes from elf stroke, which was what they used to

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Speaker 2: call it in the medieval era when somebody suddenly had

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Speaker 2: a stroke. That's what the that's what it came from.

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Speaker 2: You were stricken by elves, you were ELFs.

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Speaker 1: Stroke el Strokes another good band name.

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Speaker 2: I think that that's alf Wind's debut album.

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Speaker 3: Did you know that actor Aubrey Plaza had a stroke

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Speaker 3: when she was twenty years old?

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Speaker 2: No? I didn't. Wow, she's solely recovered. Huh oh.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And I mean I think it had been out before,

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Speaker 3: but she recently was on I think Howard Stern and

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Speaker 3: talked about it, like in depth. Not maybe not for

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Speaker 3: the first time, but I think it it's been amplified recently.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, very scary.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, oh, I'm sure, man. I think it's scary at

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Speaker 2: any age, but especially when you're younger too, you know.

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Speaker 3: No, absolutely, all right, So we're in the twelfth century now,

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Speaker 3: Aubrey Plaza's won't be around for a long long time.

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Speaker 3: There were a lot of traditions by this point firmly

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Speaker 3: established about these again human looking or at least human shaped,

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Speaker 3: little supernatural creatures. Sometimes they you know, they weren't angels

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Speaker 3: or devils. They kind of danced in between sometimes depending

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Speaker 3: on the lore and the story, and they lived in

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Speaker 3: a human like society sort of parallel to us, and

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Speaker 3: were a lot like us.

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Speaker 1: They lived a lot longer. It's now occurring to me

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Speaker 1: that Ruby and I a few.

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Speaker 3: Years ago read a whole fairy series of books that

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Speaker 3: was kind of fun about these children who find these

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Speaker 3: fairies and go to their magical land. And it's very

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Speaker 3: now that I know this stuff. It's very much based

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Speaker 3: on all this sort of traditional lore.

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Speaker 2: Is it. But was it positive or were those kids

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Speaker 2: in danger?

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Speaker 1: Well, they were a little bit of both. The kids

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Speaker 1: weren't in danger.

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Speaker 3: It was kind of like a Narnia thing, like once

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Speaker 3: they went in there, there was like kind of good

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Speaker 3: and evil to combat, gotcha.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, that definitely does follow in the tradition of

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Speaker 2: how there was a duality among fairies, and it wasn't

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Speaker 2: even necessarily like in this world, these fairies are good

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Speaker 2: and these are bad, although some some cultures did separate

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Speaker 2: them like that, but it could just be different folk

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Speaker 2: beliefs that the same fairies, depending on where you encountered them,

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Speaker 2: how you treated them, how you spoke around them, could

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Speaker 2: go from good to evil, and it just like the

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Speaker 2: flip of a switch.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they did this in these books too.

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Speaker 2: Actually okay, great.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: A good example to me, Chuck of how just randomly

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Speaker 2: different fairies can be. What can be considered a fairy

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Speaker 2: is Merlin from the Arthurian Legends, Like he's considered a fairy.

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Speaker 2: His dad was either a demon or a fairy, and

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Speaker 2: Merlin was at least half fairy, which would explain his

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Speaker 2: sorcery skills. And then Morgan le Fay was also part

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Speaker 2: of the Arthurian Legends, and they think that she is

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Speaker 2: descended or based on the Irish Morgana that we talked about.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right.

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Speaker 3: One of the kind of maybe surprising things to learn

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Speaker 3: is that at the time, if you were a in

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Speaker 3: medieval times.

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Speaker 2: You.

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Speaker 3: May write it as a like this is a real

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Speaker 3: natural phenomenon that we just don't haven't studied yet and

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Speaker 3: don't fully understand yet. Like it's looked upon as lore

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Speaker 3: all these years later, but at the time a lot

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Speaker 3: of this stuff was kind of put out in historical

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Speaker 3: accounts of the day, even not just like folklore books

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Speaker 3: and stuff, as like, hey, this is the thing and

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Speaker 3: we just don't understand it yet.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it was very Fordian in nature, you know.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And then kind of wrapping up the medieval era. In

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Speaker 2: the thirteenth century, Christianity stepped up and said, no, these

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Speaker 2: fairies you're talking about, they are mentioned nowhere in the Bible,

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Speaker 2: so therefore they're evil, they're devils, they're in disguise, they're

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Speaker 2: meant to lead you astray. Stop talking about fairies. And

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Speaker 2: if you know a fairy, stop talking to that fairy.

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Speaker 2: You're not allowed to be friends with them any longer.

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Speaker 2: That's right, And it led to a great schism among

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Speaker 2: some really wonderful fairy human friendships. But eventually it recovered.

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Speaker 2: And when we come back, we'll pick up starting around

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Speaker 2: the nineteenth century when things really got hot again.

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Speaker 3: All right, here we go with that two everybody fairies

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Speaker 3: true story. We're in the nineteenth century. Now, we're jumping

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Speaker 3: ahead a little bit. We'll probably jump back as well.

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Speaker 1: That's right.

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Speaker 3: But interest in the traditions I think you mentioned earlier,

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Speaker 3: like these sort of old traditions are being revived because

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Speaker 3: of national pride. All this old folklore is kind of

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Speaker 3: coming back. Of course, central to a lot of these

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Speaker 3: stories were the brothers Grim Jakopp and Wilhelm, who we

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Speaker 3: did I think a two parter on the Grim brothers

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Speaker 3: didn't we Yeah.

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Speaker 2: We did one on the fairy Tales, and I can't

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Speaker 2: yeah or the other one I guess.

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Speaker 3: It was, I think, yeah, just on the Grim Brothers themselves.

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Speaker 3: So those are from a while ago, but those are

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Speaker 3: good if you want to check those out. But if

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Speaker 3: you look at their eighteen twelve collection, this is I

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Speaker 3: believe before that they were telling sort of oral stories

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Speaker 3: and before they put them into like real literary works

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Speaker 3: that had a lot more religion and a lot less

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Speaker 3: of the sexy stuff. A lot of these were like

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Speaker 3: really really violent tales and feature you know, things, you know,

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Speaker 3: like little folks living inside of a mountain, magical creatures,

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Speaker 3: helpful elve sometimes but also really awful like violence and

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Speaker 3: stuff like that, which of course fairies were a part of.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and the fact that they're called fairy tales demonstrates

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Speaker 2: what I was talking about earlier, that fairy was an

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Speaker 2: adjective for anything magical or uncanny, so it encompassed all

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Speaker 2: sorts of magical stuff, not just flying little humans or

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Speaker 2: imps that tried to trick you into stuff.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, but this stuff is growing via previous folklore obviously,

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Speaker 3: but now like real literary works are starting to write

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Speaker 3: about this stuff more and more in the nineteenth century.

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Speaker 2: Right, so people are, like you said, they're starting to

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Speaker 2: have kind of a response or reaction to modernization. And

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Speaker 2: there one of the first responses was to kind of

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Speaker 2: try to preserve the original traditional folklore. And it wasn't

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Speaker 2: just the Grims that did that. There was a novelist

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Speaker 2: named Anna Eliza Bray and she collected folk stories from

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Speaker 2: her native Devonshire, England, and she published them in eighteen

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Speaker 2: forty four. And what she found by going out in

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Speaker 2: the countryside and interviewing the rural people there is that

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Speaker 2: basically everybody believed in Pixie's fairy, that kind of thing.

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Speaker 2: They were just part of the fabric of life, and

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Speaker 2: in particular, the people of Devonshire associated them with the

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Speaker 2: souls of unbaptized babies who didn't go on because they

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Speaker 2: hadn't been baptized, but they didn't go to Hell or

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Speaker 2: anything like that. They just turned into fairies, which is

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Speaker 2: a pretty pleasant thing to think totally.

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Speaker 1: I love it.

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Speaker 3: Also, late in the nineteenth century, none other than William

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Speaker 3: Butler Yates published I don't know if it was the

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Speaker 3: first one, but maybe one of the first big guide

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Speaker 3: books almost about fairies. It was called Fairy and Folk

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Speaker 3: Tales of the Irish Peasantry, published in eighteen eighty eight,

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Speaker 3: and you know, retold popular stories, reprinted some stories. It

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Speaker 3: sounds like a pretty easy gig if you asked me

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Speaker 3: for Yates.

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Speaker 2: Well, you know what that reminds me of, Chuck is

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Speaker 2: do you remember that big coffee table gnome book from

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Speaker 2: the seventies.

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Speaker 1: M like garden Homes.

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Speaker 2: Yes, it was an illustrated guide to gnomes and how

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Speaker 2: they lived and where they lived.

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Speaker 3: It was I don't remember that. I bet I would

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Speaker 3: recognize it if you like showed me that. I know

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Speaker 3: we did not own that, but it was probably in

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Speaker 3: a lot of coffee tables.

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Speaker 2: Okay, well I'll buy it and then bring it over

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Speaker 2: to you and so you we'll sit on the couch

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Speaker 2: and go through it together. Okay, Oh that sounds nice.

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Speaker 2: So okay, So, like you said, W. B. Yates created

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Speaker 2: this guide book to the Irish fairies, and it actually

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Speaker 2: became like kind of one of the authoritative homes on

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Speaker 2: the whole thing. And one of the things that I

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Speaker 2: mentioned earlier I think is really important. I didn't realize this,

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Speaker 2: but in the British Isles, in Ireland and Cornwall and

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Speaker 2: Wales and the Scottish Highlands. They as in the nineteenth

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Speaker 2: centuries it kind of wore on. They really grabbed on

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Speaker 2: to that tradition, that folklore of fairies and just absorbed

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Speaker 2: it into their modernizing national belief and pride. I had

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Speaker 2: no idea about that, but it certainly does explain why

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Speaker 2: still this at least kind of a winking belief in

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Speaker 2: fairies in the area still too, which I think is great.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, cool to rediscover those old traditions nuts too, specifically

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Speaker 3: like thumbier nose it, you know, the modernization of science

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Speaker 3: and stuff like that.

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Speaker 2: But any way, in America, I'm kind of jealous because

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Speaker 2: in America we don't have fairies. We just have like baseball.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, hey, baseball's pretty great there, it is, but it's

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Speaker 3: no fairies.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's true.

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Speaker 3: Also, in eighteenth century literature was when we first saw

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Speaker 3: wings on these things. I don't think we mentioned yet

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Speaker 3: that up until this point these were not sort of

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Speaker 3: the tinker bells that you might picture flying around when

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Speaker 3: you think of fairies with their little flitty wings. That

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Speaker 3: happened in the early eighteenth century in literature a little bit,

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Speaker 3: but really the Victorian period is where we get this

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Speaker 3: idea of these sort of tiny little insect like things

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Speaker 3: usually looking like women, or at least shaped like women,

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Speaker 3: and that more commonplaces what you think of as fairies

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Speaker 3: is the Victorian era.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and the wings are typically done like kind of

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Speaker 2: like a really beautiful, colorful, translucent butterflies wings. I've also

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Speaker 2: seen that they are sometimes depicted with bird wings or

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Speaker 2: bat wings, which I didn't like that last one. One

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Speaker 2: of the guys who really kind of advanced our modern

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Speaker 2: conception of fairies is, you know, little beautiful humans with

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Speaker 2: wings was a painter named John Anster Fitzgerald, and his

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Speaker 2: paintings are just a joy to look upon. My favorite

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Speaker 2: so far is Rabbit and Fairies, and I mean it

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Speaker 2: does what's on the label. It's a rabbit surrounded by

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Speaker 2: fairies in this cute little grassy area and it's just

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Speaker 2: heartwarming stuff. It's like looking at old care bears images.

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Speaker 1: Oh wow, I'm looking at that now. Is that a

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Speaker 1: great point? I mean, it's beyond the whimsy of it.

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Speaker 3: It's beautiful, very very lovely, but not expected like bright colors.

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Speaker 1: It's very beige.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but let's not overlook that whimsy because it is important.

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Speaker 3: No, it for sure is because these are fairies, after all,

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Speaker 3: not all art depicted them depicted them like that, though

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Speaker 3: it wasn't always these beautiful things, or at least that

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Speaker 3: wasn't the reason behind it. Because there's a little something

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Speaker 3: in the art world back then called the fairy loophole,

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Speaker 3: and that is, if you lived in a place at

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Speaker 3: the time that had pretty bad censorship for butts and

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Speaker 3: breasts and paintings, a little workaround was to just paint

380
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Speaker 3: it as a fairy because they were usually not clothed

381
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Speaker 3: at that point, and so you could say, hey, sensor,

382
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Speaker 3: you can't say anything. There's a fairy that's not a woman.

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Speaker 2: See the wings, dummy beat it. This is actually what

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Speaker 2: inspired me to do this episode on Fairies, Chuck. There

385
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Speaker 2: was a buzz it great.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, why, I just wonder where that came from.

387
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Speaker 3: And now it all makes sense. We should have just

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Speaker 3: done this one as.

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Speaker 2: A short stuff. So we're going to do a short

390
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Speaker 2: stuff within a larger episode right here, right now, we're

391
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Speaker 2: going to great talk about the Cottingly Fairies hoax, which

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Speaker 2: was arguably the greatest fairy hoax of all time.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, this was in nineteen seventeen. Photography was a thing

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Speaker 3: at the time, and there was a sixteen year old

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Speaker 3: named Elsie Wright and her nine year old cousin, Francis Griffiths. Griffiths,

396
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Speaker 3: that's a tough one. And I even have teeth who said, hey,

397
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Speaker 3: we photographed some fairies by the stream near our home

398
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Speaker 3: in Cottingley, England.

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Speaker 1: Everybody look, look.

400
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Speaker 2: Yeah, And so this was a time we did an

401
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Speaker 2: episode on spiritualism and we talked about how it was

402
00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:47,399
Speaker 2: a big response to so much death during the Civil War,

403
00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:52,879
Speaker 2: the in World War One. And I think Elsie's mom, Polly,

404
00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:56,240
Speaker 2: was into the spiritual movement and she took these pictures

405
00:22:56,280 --> 00:23:00,920
Speaker 2: to the Theosophical Society, which is also intoitulism at the times,

406
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Speaker 2: said look at what my daughter captured. Here's some fairies

407
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Speaker 2: in photos. And everybody just went wild, like they just

408
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Speaker 2: like if something can go viral in nineteen seventeen is

409
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Speaker 2: what happened with these photos. They were spectacular photos of

410
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Speaker 2: Elsie or Francis interacting with these beautiful little winged fairies

411
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Speaker 2: flitting around in the air around them.

412
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Speaker 3: Yeah, I had seen these somewhere. I don't know if

413
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Speaker 3: you sent these to me or if I just came

414
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Speaker 3: across them at some.

415
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Speaker 1: Point in my path.

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Speaker 3: Pretty famous, no, well yes, but also just like great

417
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Speaker 3: and like super cool that this sixteen year old and

418
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Speaker 3: nine year old pulled this hoax over because it looks

419
00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:44,119
Speaker 3: pretty darn good for the time. What they did was

420
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Speaker 3: they copied images from a children's book and cut them out,

421
00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:53,000
Speaker 3: added wings to them, and then use hairpins to hold

422
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Speaker 3: that paper up and took pictures.

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Speaker 1: And I think it probably helps it.

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Speaker 3: It was nineteen seventeen style photography, but.

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Speaker 1: Pretty fun, little tricky thing to do for these two

426
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Speaker 1: young girls.

427
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Speaker 2: Yeah, and they were like they you know, they didn't

428
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Speaker 2: mean for this thing to become like a national phenomenon.

429
00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:11,360
Speaker 2: But I think one of them later said, I think

430
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Speaker 2: it was Francis, who's like, you could see the happins

431
00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:17,640
Speaker 2: in the picture if you look closely enough. And yet

432
00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:20,960
Speaker 2: that didn't matter, because the adults who were into spiritualism

433
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Speaker 2: wanted so badly for some evidence that the supernatural existed.

434
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Speaker 2: Some any fairy pictures will do that, they just bought

435
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Speaker 2: the whole thing, hook line and sinker. And in fact,

436
00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:36,360
Speaker 2: Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, who created Sherlock Holmes, he got

437
00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:39,959
Speaker 2: into spiritualism toward the end of his life, and because

438
00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:42,480
Speaker 2: he was just such a trusted authority on things like

439
00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:46,240
Speaker 2: mysteries and rationalism and all that stuff, he wrote a

440
00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:50,600
Speaker 2: paper and when the paper was released, he was saying, essentially,

441
00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:53,720
Speaker 2: this is real. I consulted a photography expert and the

442
00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:56,720
Speaker 2: expert said, these pictures show whatever was in front of

443
00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:59,680
Speaker 2: the camera when the photo was taken. They haven't been doctored,

444
00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:00,880
Speaker 2: and it is true.

445
00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:02,600
Speaker 1: The guy was right, no, no, that's true.

446
00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:04,520
Speaker 2: But he was saying, like, they haven't been doctored, they

447
00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:07,000
Speaker 2: haven't been messed with, like this is a real picture

448
00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:11,440
Speaker 2: of what you're seeing. And Conan Doyle said, okay, they're fairies.

449
00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:14,520
Speaker 2: This guy proved it. These are real deal things, and

450
00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:17,400
Speaker 2: not everybody believed it. I think there was a headline

451
00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:20,840
Speaker 2: in one of the London papers when Doyle released his

452
00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:27,560
Speaker 2: article that said, has Conan Doyle gone mad? Like it

453
00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:31,119
Speaker 2: was not necessarily well received by everybody, but in the

454
00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:33,800
Speaker 2: spiritualist movement it was like we approof finally.

455
00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:35,000
Speaker 1: Yeah.

456
00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:36,840
Speaker 3: I wonder if the last line of that article said,

457
00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:40,120
Speaker 3: perhaps as best if he just sticks to Sherlock, he.

458
00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:44,720
Speaker 2: Stays in his Sherlock lane, and that was the first

459
00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:47,760
Speaker 2: instance of people using the word lane like that in

460
00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:51,400
Speaker 2: a smarmy way. So I want to say also, Francis

461
00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:53,879
Speaker 2: and Elsie were from what I can tell, Elsie went

462
00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:56,880
Speaker 2: to her grave never admitting it was a hoax, really,

463
00:25:56,920 --> 00:25:59,520
Speaker 2: because Francis did admit it until nineteen eighty three.

464
00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:00,720
Speaker 1: Oh jeez.

465
00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:03,160
Speaker 2: And she was saying like she didn't feel bad because

466
00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:06,680
Speaker 2: obviously the adults wanted to believe this very obvious hoax,

467
00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:09,640
Speaker 2: So you know, more power to them. I don't think

468
00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:11,480
Speaker 2: said the last part. I'm paraphrasing.

469
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:15,560
Speaker 3: She said of men without hats concert, they're all dancing

470
00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:16,359
Speaker 3: the safety dancer.

471
00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:19,520
Speaker 2: She was like, hey, guess what that has something to

472
00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:20,480
Speaker 2: get off my chest?

473
00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:25,160
Speaker 1: There be good.

474
00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:28,159
Speaker 3: So nineteen fifty seven there comes another paper from a

475
00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:35,000
Speaker 3: folkloress named Catherine Mary Briggs who did another sort of

476
00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:41,760
Speaker 3: categorization of fairies that involved what is this one, two, three, four, five, six,

477
00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:46,600
Speaker 3: I guess seven categories, and we're going to go over

478
00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:51,240
Speaker 3: those quickly here. The first is heroic trooping fairies. These

479
00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:52,840
Speaker 3: are the kinds I was talking about. There were a

480
00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:55,359
Speaker 3: little more aristocratic that had the king and the queen.

481
00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:59,440
Speaker 3: Not to be confused with the second grouping homely trooping fairies,

482
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:03,760
Speaker 3: which were you know, kind of farm dwellers who can

483
00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:07,120
Speaker 3: maybe change in size, who might reward a human for help,

484
00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:10,960
Speaker 3: who might punish a human for not helping or being unkind,

485
00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:12,560
Speaker 3: and might even steal from humans.

486
00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:17,399
Speaker 2: Yes, there's another one, solitary fairies. They're usually tied to

487
00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:20,880
Speaker 2: a place, usually in the countryside, say like the moors

488
00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:24,640
Speaker 2: or something like that, and they will often like pose

489
00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:28,120
Speaker 2: as something like a needy stranger or something like that,

490
00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:32,439
Speaker 2: and to test the traveler's kindness to strangers. And if

491
00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:34,880
Speaker 2: they pass the test, they might be rewarded with something.

492
00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:38,800
Speaker 2: If they fail, they'll probably be punished by this magical fairy.

493
00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:43,360
Speaker 2: Leprechauns are one of them. They're usually tricksters. There's one

494
00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:45,639
Speaker 2: named Tom tit Tot who I read the story of

495
00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:48,080
Speaker 2: and it's great. It's got a kind of a rumpel

496
00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:50,960
Speaker 2: stilt skinny vibe to it. But I think I like

497
00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:54,800
Speaker 2: Tom tit Tot's a little more, so I say, go

498
00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:57,960
Speaker 2: check out Tom tit Tot in his story.

499
00:27:58,040 --> 00:27:58,320
Speaker 1: Yeah.

500
00:27:58,359 --> 00:27:59,720
Speaker 3: And you know, it seems like a lot of this

501
00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:01,560
Speaker 3: as it's occurring to me more and more. It sort

502
00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:05,679
Speaker 3: of falls into the category of the what's the story

503
00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:08,280
Speaker 3: that you tell when it's are you going to do

504
00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:09,240
Speaker 3: the good thing or the bad thing?

505
00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:11,400
Speaker 1: Is it a fat no.

506
00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:13,800
Speaker 2: More agacy tale?

507
00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:14,040
Speaker 1: Yeah?

508
00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:17,320
Speaker 3: Like as a moral yeah, I think sort of fables

509
00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:21,240
Speaker 3: and morality tales where they're saying, well, good things will

510
00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:22,800
Speaker 3: happen to you or bad things will happen to you

511
00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:25,639
Speaker 3: according to your behaviors and whether or not you're like

512
00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:28,560
Speaker 3: kind to the stranger passing through town. It's actually a

513
00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:33,399
Speaker 3: fairy or a leprechaun. YEA, well, well I'll be what

514
00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:35,080
Speaker 3: else we got? We got three more categories?

515
00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:35,760
Speaker 1: Uh?

516
00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:39,160
Speaker 2: No, we've got two. No, we have three? Year, you're right.

517
00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:42,800
Speaker 1: Three is a catch all tutelary.

518
00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:46,000
Speaker 2: Fairies fun to say, but also include my favorite fairies,

519
00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:51,320
Speaker 2: which are brownies, which are household helpers, and people will

520
00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:53,800
Speaker 2: still leave out a little bit of bread, a little

521
00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:56,040
Speaker 2: saucer of milk, or something like that as a thank

522
00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:58,200
Speaker 2: you gift to the brownies that live in their house

523
00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:01,320
Speaker 2: and help them out with household chores. The very very

524
00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:05,640
Speaker 2: famous fairy tale about the cobbler who was helped out

525
00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:07,920
Speaker 2: by fairies who made shoes for him every night and

526
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:11,400
Speaker 2: eventually made him a very wealthy man. Those are brownies.

527
00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:14,600
Speaker 2: I remember that anybody helping out around the house, that's

528
00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:18,440
Speaker 2: a brownie. And I just think that's the cutest, most

529
00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:23,120
Speaker 2: down to earth folksy concept ever, that there's little tiny

530
00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:26,720
Speaker 2: fairies that help out around the house. And the other

531
00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:29,160
Speaker 2: thing that they do, which I think is hilarious, they

532
00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:33,800
Speaker 2: punish lazy servants who aren't doing enough work by pinching

533
00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:34,800
Speaker 2: them while they sleep.

534
00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:38,440
Speaker 1: That's got to be where brownie points comes from, right.

535
00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:42,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, probably, don't you think? Probably? Yeah, because you do

536
00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:44,480
Speaker 2: want to score points with the brownies to keep them happy.

537
00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:47,440
Speaker 2: Because yeah, in addition to happening out, if you don't

538
00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:50,680
Speaker 2: reward them, they will sometimes start stealing. They'll make your

539
00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:53,480
Speaker 2: milk go bad. They'll make it impossible for butter to

540
00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:56,600
Speaker 2: churn into butter. They can't mess you up. You don't

541
00:29:56,600 --> 00:29:58,600
Speaker 2: want to mess with them, but if you keep them happy,

542
00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:01,720
Speaker 2: like I fully want a brownie in your house.

543
00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:04,240
Speaker 3: They make your fart hang in the air long after

544
00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:05,720
Speaker 3: it's it's fast.

545
00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:10,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know that kind of brownie.

546
00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:15,360
Speaker 3: Finally, there are nature fairies. These are the kind of

547
00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:17,680
Speaker 3: water sprites and river sprites you were talking about, These

548
00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:20,640
Speaker 3: spirits that dwell in nature.

549
00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:21,360
Speaker 1: It's very.

550
00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:25,640
Speaker 3: Self explanatory. They protect animals usually and deal with the

551
00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:28,240
Speaker 3: animals out there. And then there's the catch all category

552
00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:31,080
Speaker 3: that I mentioned, which are the scariest ones, like the

553
00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:34,160
Speaker 3: giants and the hags and the monsters of the group.

554
00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:38,280
Speaker 2: Like, yes, I get that that is part of original

555
00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:41,080
Speaker 2: fairy lore and like the widest possible use of the

556
00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:43,880
Speaker 2: term fairy. But we've evolved so far beyond that. How

557
00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:45,800
Speaker 2: are you going to include like a monster and a

558
00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:48,280
Speaker 2: giant into the fairy categories?

559
00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:49,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally.

560
00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:52,920
Speaker 2: Giants and giant exactly, They're their own thing. Don't do

561
00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:57,360
Speaker 2: any like them. Yeah, I say we take our second break, Chuck,

562
00:30:57,400 --> 00:30:59,200
Speaker 2: and come back and wrap this up and talk some

563
00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:29,200
Speaker 2: more about get this fairies, okay, Chuck. So, by the

564
00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:33,160
Speaker 2: nineteenth century, early twentieth century, like fairies were starting to congeal,

565
00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:35,920
Speaker 2: all these different threads were starting to kind of come together,

566
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:42,080
Speaker 2: and yeah, they were solidifying like so much jello pudding. Yeah,

567
00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:44,080
Speaker 2: remember the skin on top of that stuff?

568
00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:48,040
Speaker 3: Buh of, just like jello or the pudding.

569
00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:51,160
Speaker 2: The jello pudding, I don't remember.

570
00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:53,600
Speaker 1: If it sat out, would I get a little topper.

571
00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:57,440
Speaker 2: As it sat it would almost invariably like create like

572
00:31:57,480 --> 00:32:00,440
Speaker 2: a shell a skin at the top and it was

573
00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:03,760
Speaker 2: limsay and rubbery and like you did not want it.

574
00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:06,600
Speaker 2: But I think some real sickos liked the skin of

575
00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:07,120
Speaker 2: the pudding.

576
00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:10,800
Speaker 3: It's right here that I have to quickly sidetrack about

577
00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:12,600
Speaker 3: a movie I just saw called The Substance.

578
00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:13,960
Speaker 1: Have you read about this yet?

579
00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:19,000
Speaker 3: No? It's the new movie with Demi Mour and Margaret

580
00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:23,560
Speaker 3: Qually That is a body horror film. Oh, just say

581
00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:27,320
Speaker 3: the least. If you're into body horror, this is the

582
00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:31,480
Speaker 3: going to go down in history. Is the all time

583
00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:36,040
Speaker 3: leader in that category. It is the most foul, horrifying,

584
00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:39,880
Speaker 3: disgusting but great thing that I've ever seen in my life.

585
00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:40,880
Speaker 2: I gotta see this.

586
00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:42,880
Speaker 1: Are you into that kind of thing?

587
00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:45,320
Speaker 2: Yeah? I mean I like all kinds of horror. Body

588
00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:47,720
Speaker 2: horror is not my leading type of horror. It's usually

589
00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:50,160
Speaker 2: a good ghost story, but I like body horror.

590
00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:55,080
Speaker 3: Well, go see The Substance. It is really something. I

591
00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:56,920
Speaker 3: got the strongest stomach for that kind of thing. And

592
00:32:56,960 --> 00:33:01,000
Speaker 3: I was literally feet pulled up in the theater, peeking

593
00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:03,160
Speaker 3: through eyes like a small child.

594
00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:04,760
Speaker 1: So are you and holding my ears?

595
00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:06,080
Speaker 2: Are you into body horror?

596
00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:10,240
Speaker 3: I like a Cronenberg thing, But This is like Cronenberg

597
00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:15,320
Speaker 3: on ten million milligrams of steroids. However much that is,

598
00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:18,080
Speaker 3: it's beyond the pale of anything that you could imagine

599
00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:18,760
Speaker 3: for body horror.

600
00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:22,000
Speaker 2: Okay, I'm telling you, I'll see that in the meantime.

601
00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:25,280
Speaker 2: You see, there's a classic body horror movie called Society

602
00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:29,160
Speaker 2: from the mid eighties. Don't know that one, and it's

603
00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:33,600
Speaker 2: widely considered the all time leader in horrible, horrific body horror.

604
00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:36,080
Speaker 2: So anymore I will be I can't wait to see

605
00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:37,160
Speaker 2: the Substance Man.

606
00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:39,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's got a great message. I can't remember

607
00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:41,640
Speaker 3: the woman who made it, but her first movie is

608
00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:45,560
Speaker 3: called Revenge and it was great, total sort of I

609
00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:48,560
Speaker 3: spit upon your gravestyle Revenge film that you can watch

610
00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:52,160
Speaker 3: now it's out on streaming. And she's just a very

611
00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:56,080
Speaker 3: unique voice in film making these days. And a great

612
00:33:56,440 --> 00:34:00,040
Speaker 3: message in this new one about women and aging and

613
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:02,600
Speaker 3: youth obsession with youth culture and stuff like that.

614
00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:04,600
Speaker 2: From what you described the messages.

615
00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:10,160
Speaker 1: Yes, it's tough. I cannot get some of the stuff

616
00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:10,759
Speaker 1: out of my head.

617
00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:12,920
Speaker 2: Okay, So let's get back to fairies, shall we.

618
00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:16,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, that all started with putting skin, by the way, Yeah, fairies.

619
00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:20,480
Speaker 3: Lets your mind run wild with that association.

620
00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:23,960
Speaker 2: Okay, so by this time fairies have are they're kind

621
00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:27,480
Speaker 2: of becoming dual. They can be different kinds of sizes.

622
00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:31,000
Speaker 2: They can be ugly or beautiful. And then from that

623
00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:34,480
Speaker 2: point on, like they either have one or the other,

624
00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:38,279
Speaker 2: usually polar extremes. Right, so, like they're either immortal or

625
00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:40,440
Speaker 2: they don't have souls, so when they die they just

626
00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:45,480
Speaker 2: perish completely, or they're they're fallen angels but they're not

627
00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:49,440
Speaker 2: demonic or wait, member, there may be unbaptized babies, like

628
00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:53,480
Speaker 2: there's they're as desparate and weird as it sounds like.

629
00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:58,279
Speaker 2: It's still way more put together than the threads used

630
00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:02,560
Speaker 2: to be before the nineteenth.

631
00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:04,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure. Sometimes there are solo fairies. Sometimes they

632
00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:08,480
Speaker 3: are in little small communities or families. We have mentioned

633
00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:10,160
Speaker 3: that a lot of times they live out in rural

634
00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:16,000
Speaker 3: areas and caves and wells and heidi holes other sort

635
00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:19,799
Speaker 3: of bucolic rural spots, mounds and holes in the ground,

636
00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:22,640
Speaker 3: things like that. Sometimes there is a fairy land like

637
00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:24,600
Speaker 3: in these books that I read Ruby, where things are

638
00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:29,160
Speaker 3: just magical and wonderful or can go really wrong. A

639
00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:32,040
Speaker 3: lot of times the beauty is an illusion. So there

640
00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:35,200
Speaker 3: are some stories like if a human comes along and

641
00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:38,440
Speaker 3: says the right spell or applies to magic ointment, they

642
00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:41,080
Speaker 3: will be awakened to the true reality that everything is all.

643
00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:43,360
Speaker 3: The treasure is garbage, and the food is poison and

644
00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:44,040
Speaker 3: stuff like that.

645
00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:47,160
Speaker 2: I found that interesting because the magic ointment jumped out

646
00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:50,680
Speaker 2: at me because they also prescribed a magic ointment for

647
00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:54,720
Speaker 2: witchcraft and to become a werewolf. And I don't remember

648
00:35:54,719 --> 00:35:57,600
Speaker 2: what drug they what hallucinogen they thought was in that

649
00:35:57,680 --> 00:36:00,879
Speaker 2: magic ointment, but I suspect yeah, referring to the same

650
00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:03,720
Speaker 2: magic ointment that would make you trip balls.

651
00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:13,480
Speaker 3: Right, Oh, that's funny. Not Jim Wall's trip balls. They

652
00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:15,799
Speaker 3: can't cross rivers usually, or any kind of running water.

653
00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:16,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a big one.

654
00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:19,400
Speaker 1: Holy water is not great for them, right.

655
00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:22,840
Speaker 2: No, And this is where the influence of the Christian

656
00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:26,560
Speaker 2: Church came in. They don't like holy water, they don't

657
00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:30,560
Speaker 2: like cold iron. Church bells really drive them. They sound

658
00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:33,320
Speaker 2: like nails on a chalkboard to them. And in fact,

659
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:37,080
Speaker 2: like just talking about religion can set a fairy off

660
00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:41,479
Speaker 2: that one historian from the fifties, Katherine Mary Briggs, said

661
00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:46,120
Speaker 2: it is tactless in the extreme to mention Sunday to

662
00:36:46,280 --> 00:36:49,760
Speaker 2: a fairy. That's one of the best lines I've ever read.

663
00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:52,000
Speaker 3: Well, you know, the other thing you don't want to

664
00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:54,080
Speaker 3: do is if you meet a fairy, don't call that

665
00:36:54,120 --> 00:36:55,480
Speaker 3: fairy a fairy, right.

666
00:36:56,160 --> 00:36:56,880
Speaker 1: They don't want to hear that.

667
00:36:57,280 --> 00:36:59,680
Speaker 2: No, they want to be called fair folk people of peace.

668
00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:03,279
Speaker 2: One thing that everybody now agrees on about fairies is

669
00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:07,160
Speaker 2: that they really respond to flattery and that they're very

670
00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:08,320
Speaker 2: easily upset.

671
00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:12,160
Speaker 1: Right, Sorry, I had a joke.

672
00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:14,720
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna tell Okay, you can tell me later.

673
00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:15,960
Speaker 1: I'll tell you later.

674
00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:20,040
Speaker 3: One thing that you can do, like, let's say you've

675
00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:23,960
Speaker 3: got some disturbing fairy stories banning about that have to

676
00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:28,279
Speaker 3: deal with human children and maybe a fairy, you know,

677
00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:31,520
Speaker 3: swapping them out for a fairy like they've become a changeling. Essentially,

678
00:37:32,160 --> 00:37:35,720
Speaker 3: if you're an unchristened baby and you think your baby

679
00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:37,640
Speaker 3: is at risk to be carried off by a fairy,

680
00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:40,440
Speaker 3: you wrap them up in daddy's clothes, put a bible

681
00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:41,200
Speaker 3: under their pillow.

682
00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:42,200
Speaker 1: That's a good way.

683
00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:46,080
Speaker 3: Or if you live a little dangerously, you can hang

684
00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:50,399
Speaker 3: some iron fire tongs or some giant iron scissors over

685
00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:51,239
Speaker 3: their cradle.

686
00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:53,280
Speaker 2: Which seems like a really bad idea.

687
00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:55,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'd go with the Bible under the pillow, And

688
00:37:55,480 --> 00:37:56,200
Speaker 1: that's me talking.

689
00:37:56,719 --> 00:38:00,680
Speaker 2: You don't want iron scissors to fall under your baby's crip.

690
00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:04,960
Speaker 2: So this is where it gets really dark. In fact,

691
00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:09,000
Speaker 2: there was a long standing folklore all the way through

692
00:38:09,040 --> 00:38:12,239
Speaker 2: the late nineteenth century that when a child started to

693
00:38:12,239 --> 00:38:16,560
Speaker 2: develop disabilities or was suddenly struck ill or i think

694
00:38:16,719 --> 00:38:21,840
Speaker 2: was also born with like physical abnormalities, the folk belief

695
00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:26,320
Speaker 2: was that the fairies had stolen the actual baby, the

696
00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:31,400
Speaker 2: human baby, and replaced it with a fairy changeling, right, yeah,

697
00:38:31,480 --> 00:38:36,319
Speaker 2: And so you would kill the fairy changeling because you

698
00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:39,560
Speaker 2: wanted your baby back in hopes that they this would

699
00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:43,319
Speaker 2: help get your baby back. And it was actually one

700
00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:47,280
Speaker 2: of those things where probably some people, especially long ago,

701
00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:50,759
Speaker 2: believed that what they were doing was actually killing a

702
00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:54,239
Speaker 2: fairy baby. But it also served a really grim but

703
00:38:54,440 --> 00:39:00,080
Speaker 2: kind of necessary for the time purpose of removing the

704
00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:03,120
Speaker 2: baby that was never going to be able to help

705
00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:06,360
Speaker 2: out on the farm, but was gonna need some of

706
00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:09,239
Speaker 2: the food from that farm to stay alive, from a

707
00:39:09,320 --> 00:39:11,840
Speaker 2: very poor family to have to take care of that kid.

708
00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:15,040
Speaker 2: And that is about as dark as fairies get and

709
00:39:15,040 --> 00:39:17,120
Speaker 2: there's some dark parts to fairies.

710
00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:18,160
Speaker 1: Yeah for sure.

711
00:39:18,719 --> 00:39:20,520
Speaker 3: And I would also like people to write in if they,

712
00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:23,440
Speaker 3: like me, were singing the Chile's Babyback Ribs commercial in

713
00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:26,640
Speaker 3: their head the third time you said babyback.

714
00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:29,760
Speaker 2: Oh, oh yeah, I'll bet. I'll bet that happened. Nice.

715
00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:32,080
Speaker 2: That's a gift to you, buddy.

716
00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:37,719
Speaker 3: I think we should close with some famous fairies, because

717
00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:41,040
Speaker 3: we mentioned that they had been had long been written

718
00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:43,319
Speaker 3: about in literature, and some have some of that cream

719
00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:46,560
Speaker 3: rises to the top everybody, and the wheat is separated

720
00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:49,680
Speaker 3: from the chaff, and you get some genuine fairy celebrities.

721
00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:53,040
Speaker 3: Puck is the one I would love to mention because

722
00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:56,080
Speaker 3: Puck was not just from the mind of William Shakespeare.

723
00:39:56,280 --> 00:39:59,520
Speaker 3: Puck was a fairy or a demon, depending on, of course,

724
00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:04,719
Speaker 3: various factors of medieval folklore and Shakespeare by the time

725
00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:08,200
Speaker 3: he got around to writing A Midsummer Night's Dream, Puck

726
00:40:08,360 --> 00:40:12,200
Speaker 3: was a very mischievous character who Shakespeare leaned on in

727
00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:15,680
Speaker 3: that story. Puck as a character would help with chores

728
00:40:15,719 --> 00:40:18,560
Speaker 3: around the house, maybe get rewarded with some bread and

729
00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:23,480
Speaker 3: milk from the midwives, but could also play tricks on

730
00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:26,239
Speaker 3: people like that spoiled milk again or maybe trip an

731
00:40:26,239 --> 00:40:27,880
Speaker 3: old lady walking through the forest.

732
00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:31,400
Speaker 2: Right. He also appeared on the first season of Real World.

733
00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:34,800
Speaker 1: That's wasn't the first season, but yes.

734
00:40:35,239 --> 00:40:39,280
Speaker 2: So thank you for saving me a ton of emails. Yeah,

735
00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:43,480
Speaker 2: first season was London, Josh. He also had a great nickname,

736
00:40:43,600 --> 00:40:47,640
Speaker 2: Robin Goodfellow. Did not know that. Yeah, I'll just keep

737
00:40:47,680 --> 00:40:51,200
Speaker 2: moving on. But you said that Shakespeare used him in

738
00:40:51,239 --> 00:40:55,840
Speaker 2: A Midsummer Night's Dream. Shakespeare was the champ of using

739
00:40:56,000 --> 00:40:59,319
Speaker 2: and describing and writing about fairies. And it turns out

740
00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:02,120
Speaker 2: they think actually venting fairies because one of the most

741
00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:06,440
Speaker 2: legendary fairies was the fairy queen Queen Mab, who's described

742
00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:09,600
Speaker 2: in Romeo and Juliet and just kind of spread from there,

743
00:41:11,080 --> 00:41:13,920
Speaker 2: and they can't figure out where Shakespeare got this, so

744
00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:16,080
Speaker 2: they actually think he might have made up this really

745
00:41:16,239 --> 00:41:21,240
Speaker 2: definitive fairy Queen Mab, which is pretty impressive.

746
00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:24,320
Speaker 3: And I think we have to close by talking about

747
00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:26,520
Speaker 3: the two most famous fairies of.

748
00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:29,400
Speaker 1: Them all, who tinker Bell and that tooth fairy.

749
00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:33,120
Speaker 3: Oh tinker Bell, of course, created by the great and

750
00:41:33,160 --> 00:41:36,839
Speaker 3: wonderful Jay and Barry, author of the play, and then

751
00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:41,600
Speaker 3: eventually the novel Peter Pan. What a great character and

752
00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:45,320
Speaker 3: what a great just thing that Jay and Barry launched

753
00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:47,280
Speaker 3: into the world. Like all about Peter Pan. I've always

754
00:41:47,280 --> 00:41:50,160
Speaker 3: loved Peter Pan and all the stories and iterations from

755
00:41:50,200 --> 00:41:53,680
Speaker 3: the various movies and cartoons to the actual books themselves,

756
00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:56,040
Speaker 3: and that book about Jay and Barry or the movie

757
00:41:56,360 --> 00:41:57,960
Speaker 3: about jan Berry, which was very good.

758
00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:01,800
Speaker 2: J and Barry also invented the concept of fairy dust.

759
00:42:02,440 --> 00:42:06,000
Speaker 2: And there was a Guardian article that describes why I

760
00:42:06,040 --> 00:42:07,799
Speaker 2: actually think. I found it on Reddit to tell you

761
00:42:07,840 --> 00:42:10,040
Speaker 2: the truth. In the article, I say that Berry invented

762
00:42:10,080 --> 00:42:13,040
Speaker 2: fairy dust. So, originally Peter Pan was a play and

763
00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:15,560
Speaker 2: then a few years later it became a novel, and

764
00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:19,239
Speaker 2: the fairy dust appears in the novel because in the

765
00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:22,359
Speaker 2: interim between the play and the novels released, kids were

766
00:42:22,360 --> 00:42:25,360
Speaker 2: trying to fly like Peter Pan. So we introduced fairy

767
00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:27,600
Speaker 2: dust to say, like, you can't fly, kid, you don't

768
00:42:27,600 --> 00:42:29,320
Speaker 2: have fairy dust. You have to have fairy dust to

769
00:42:29,360 --> 00:42:29,880
Speaker 2: be able.

770
00:42:29,760 --> 00:42:33,040
Speaker 1: To fly, So don't jump out of your window for gotcha.

771
00:42:32,920 --> 00:42:34,759
Speaker 2: Exactly because it's not gonna work.

772
00:42:35,600 --> 00:42:37,960
Speaker 3: That's called a Janberry CoA original.

773
00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:40,760
Speaker 2: And then the Tooth fairy, you said, right.

774
00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:43,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, of course everyone loves the tooth fairy.

775
00:42:43,640 --> 00:42:43,960
Speaker 1: Of course.

776
00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:47,160
Speaker 3: This is the tradition of when your child looses their

777
00:42:47,239 --> 00:42:49,879
Speaker 3: baby tea, they put it under their pillow or maybe

778
00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:52,400
Speaker 3: in a little pocket of a tooth pillow that you

779
00:42:52,520 --> 00:42:57,000
Speaker 3: might have bought for eight bucks or whatever. In my case,

780
00:42:57,080 --> 00:42:58,960
Speaker 3: Janet Barney gave us a tooth fairy pillow, which was

781
00:42:59,040 --> 00:43:02,759
Speaker 3: very sweet as a gift, and you get some you

782
00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:04,960
Speaker 3: get something in there, like a little bit of money

783
00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:09,160
Speaker 3: or a little treat or something like that. And that

784
00:43:09,320 --> 00:43:13,160
Speaker 3: originated in Norse tradition in the thirteenth century, when parents

785
00:43:13,160 --> 00:43:14,560
Speaker 3: would pay a tooth fee.

786
00:43:14,960 --> 00:43:17,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, they would pay a tooth fee because baby teeth

787
00:43:17,440 --> 00:43:20,080
Speaker 2: were considered good luck. So they were essentially buying the

788
00:43:20,920 --> 00:43:22,759
Speaker 2: lucky tooth from their child.

789
00:43:23,080 --> 00:43:24,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, buying it out.

790
00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:27,640
Speaker 2: But the the first appearance of the actual tooth fairy

791
00:43:27,640 --> 00:43:29,960
Speaker 2: as we understand it today, that didn't come about until

792
00:43:30,040 --> 00:43:33,680
Speaker 2: nineteen oh eight, when apparently a Chicago Tribune writer just

793
00:43:33,760 --> 00:43:34,319
Speaker 2: made it up.

794
00:43:35,680 --> 00:43:39,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, but it was around long before that, but yeah,

795
00:43:39,160 --> 00:43:40,160
Speaker 3: in print for sure.

796
00:43:40,840 --> 00:43:44,319
Speaker 2: And then we also can't not name check all of

797
00:43:44,360 --> 00:43:47,560
Speaker 2: the Disney fairies, including tinker Bell. There was the fairy

798
00:43:47,560 --> 00:43:52,240
Speaker 2: godmother in Cinderella. Yeah, there were fairies and fantasia.

799
00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:52,919
Speaker 1: All over the place.

800
00:43:52,960 --> 00:43:56,600
Speaker 2: Sleeping Beauty had three great fairies, Flora, Fauna, and Merriweather

801
00:43:57,400 --> 00:43:59,719
Speaker 2: the greatest. And that's all you really need to mention.

802
00:44:00,040 --> 00:44:02,000
Speaker 2: The list goes on, but we're going to stop there.

803
00:44:03,360 --> 00:44:06,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, I wish I could remember the name of that

804
00:44:06,120 --> 00:44:08,279
Speaker 3: book series. Let me see if I can find it

805
00:44:08,360 --> 00:44:11,160
Speaker 3: real quick. Why don't you talk intelligently for ten seconds?

806
00:44:11,160 --> 00:44:15,200
Speaker 2: Oh god, let's see a little more about fairies. Fairies

807
00:44:15,320 --> 00:44:20,120
Speaker 2: are great. Everybody typically agrees that was one scholarly finding

808
00:44:21,239 --> 00:44:22,480
Speaker 2: Backyard Fairies.

809
00:44:22,719 --> 00:44:23,719
Speaker 1: I believe that is it?

810
00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:26,080
Speaker 2: What was that? That was the series?

811
00:44:26,120 --> 00:44:29,600
Speaker 1: I think I think it's Backyard Fairies. Okay, I might

812
00:44:29,600 --> 00:44:29,879
Speaker 1: be wrong.

813
00:44:30,080 --> 00:44:32,520
Speaker 2: You sounded like you knew what it was a second ago.

814
00:44:33,600 --> 00:44:35,040
Speaker 1: Well i'm looking.

815
00:44:35,080 --> 00:44:39,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, Backyard Fairies by Phoebe wall w A h L.

816
00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:43,439
Speaker 3: It's wonderful and there are a lot of books and

817
00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:46,319
Speaker 3: they're a lot of fun if you have a kid,

818
00:44:46,360 --> 00:44:48,839
Speaker 3: that's you know, like six ish.

819
00:44:49,320 --> 00:44:53,680
Speaker 2: Okay, great, thanks for read too, Thanks for that. Yeah. Well,

820
00:44:53,800 --> 00:44:58,360
Speaker 2: Chuck recommended a children's book series which, as everyone knows,

821
00:44:58,600 --> 00:44:59,919
Speaker 2: unlocks listener mail.

822
00:45:03,360 --> 00:45:05,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm gonna mention this a quick mistake we made,

823
00:45:06,080 --> 00:45:07,840
Speaker 3: and this is from Brad. A few people have written

824
00:45:07,840 --> 00:45:11,000
Speaker 3: in and this is something we've mistaked on before.

825
00:45:11,080 --> 00:45:11,680
Speaker 1: Mistake on.

826
00:45:13,239 --> 00:45:14,880
Speaker 3: Hey, guys, have just finished listening to your History of

827
00:45:14,960 --> 00:45:18,399
Speaker 3: Glasses episodes and noticed a little mistake and figured you'd

828
00:45:18,440 --> 00:45:21,520
Speaker 3: love when people right into correct you. When Josh was

829
00:45:21,560 --> 00:45:25,239
Speaker 3: listening Famous where monocles, you mentioned Monopoly guy rich uncle

830
00:45:25,280 --> 00:45:28,360
Speaker 3: Pennybags is apparently his name a great example of the

831
00:45:28,400 --> 00:45:32,239
Speaker 3: Mandela effect, guys, because he never wore a monocle. I'm

832
00:45:32,239 --> 00:45:34,759
Speaker 3: pretty sure you even mentioned this in your episode about

833
00:45:34,800 --> 00:45:38,319
Speaker 3: the Mandela effect, and probably in your Monopoly episode as well,

834
00:45:38,360 --> 00:45:40,840
Speaker 3: so this may be a three timer. Any who, You

835
00:45:40,880 --> 00:45:42,800
Speaker 3: guys are the best ever. I hope you make episodes

836
00:45:42,800 --> 00:45:45,000
Speaker 3: for at least another couple of decades.

837
00:45:45,320 --> 00:45:48,280
Speaker 1: Rock on, Brad, Rock on yourself.

838
00:45:48,320 --> 00:45:50,600
Speaker 2: Brad, that was a great email and we appreciate it.

839
00:45:50,680 --> 00:45:53,799
Speaker 2: We appreciate you thanks for pointing that out. It is

840
00:45:53,880 --> 00:45:56,479
Speaker 2: so interesting when that Mandela effect comes up.

841
00:45:56,840 --> 00:45:58,480
Speaker 1: Agreed, I thought he had a monocle.

842
00:45:58,560 --> 00:46:02,319
Speaker 2: Two. I just I even don't believe what Brad's saying

843
00:46:02,400 --> 00:46:05,120
Speaker 2: right now. I'm so convinced he had a monocle at

844
00:46:05,120 --> 00:46:05,560
Speaker 2: some point.

845
00:46:06,320 --> 00:46:07,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, I looked it up.

846
00:46:07,480 --> 00:46:10,440
Speaker 3: I double checked, and there have been drawings of him

847
00:46:10,440 --> 00:46:14,080
Speaker 3: with monocles, but nothing that's not canon, like no official.

848
00:46:15,320 --> 00:46:16,200
Speaker 1: Monopoly stuff.

849
00:46:16,200 --> 00:46:18,360
Speaker 3: And I've been playing Monopoly, we've been playing as a family,

850
00:46:18,440 --> 00:46:20,640
Speaker 3: so I'm surprised it got past me.

851
00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:23,719
Speaker 2: Okay, all right, great, you got anything else?

852
00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:24,760
Speaker 1: Got nothing else?

853
00:46:24,880 --> 00:46:26,000
Speaker 2: And that was from Brad.

854
00:46:26,239 --> 00:46:27,000
Speaker 1: That's from Brad.

855
00:46:27,280 --> 00:46:29,000
Speaker 2: Okay, Well, if you want to be like Brad and

856
00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:30,680
Speaker 2: get in touch with us, send us an email too.

857
00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:36,680
Speaker 2: Send it off to stuff podcast at iHeartRadio dot com.

858
00:46:36,840 --> 00:46:39,719
Speaker 1: Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For

859
00:46:39,800 --> 00:46:44,000
Speaker 1: more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

860
00:46:44,120 --> 00:46:45,960
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.