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Speaker 1: Hi. I'm Laura Vanderkamp. I'm a mother of five, an author, journalist,

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Speaker 1: and speaker.

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Speaker 2: And I'm Sarah hart Hunger, a mother of three, practicing physician, writer,

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Speaker 2: and course creator. We are two working parents who love

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Speaker 2: our careers and our families.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to best of both worlds. Here we talk about

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Speaker 1: how real women manage work, family, and time for fun.

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Speaker 1: From figuring out childcare to mapping out long term career goals.

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Speaker 1: We want you to get the most out of life.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to best of both worlds. This is Laura. This

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Speaker 1: episode is airing in early to mid May of twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty five. I am going to be interviewing Megan Francis.

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Speaker 1: She is the author of the new book, The Last

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Speaker 1: Parenting Book You'll Ever Read. We also know her for

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Speaker 1: as a longtime host of The Mom Hour, which is ending,

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Speaker 1: but they are launching a new podcast about midlife lady pursuits,

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Speaker 1: which is certainly a topic we cover in the interviews. So, Sarah,

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Speaker 1: you are a longtime listener of The Mom Hour.

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Speaker 2: Correct, Yes, many many years of listening to Megan and

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Speaker 2: Sarah talk about parenting and all kind of parenting adjacent topics.

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Speaker 3: So when they.

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Speaker 2: Announced that their podcast was coming to a close. I

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Speaker 2: was so sad, but then immediately thrilled that they're going

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Speaker 2: to be coming up with a kind of new one

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Speaker 2: with new life, so exciting.

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Speaker 1: Well, they sort of realized that their kids had aged

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Speaker 1: out of this time, you know that people were coming

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Speaker 1: to the mom Hour, I think as she talked about

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Speaker 1: expecting to hear about like baby products, like what's new

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Speaker 1: in this and all that, and it's just they're not

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Speaker 1: in that mind space anymore, and they wanted to just

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Speaker 1: make a clean break and start something new, which I get.

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Speaker 1: But Megan's book is all about, you know, when your

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Speaker 1: kids get older and they're launching out into the real

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Speaker 1: world and sort of the emptying nest and how that

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Speaker 1: goes as a parenting phase and also is figuring out

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Speaker 1: who you are in the absence of sort of these

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Speaker 1: day caretaking responsibilities. So it's it's a phrase. I'm starting

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Speaker 1: to enter it. I've got a while to go because

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Speaker 1: I still have a five year old.

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Speaker 2: But your nests, well you can take the part of

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Speaker 2: the advice about the like launching part and yeah, your

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Speaker 2: nest isn't gonna be empty, tell after mine's empty.

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Speaker 1: Sorry, you got a while nah. Yeah, Well, Sarah, do

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Speaker 1: you have any midlife lady leisure pursuits.

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Speaker 2: I'm really like in the market for some because running

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Speaker 2: was my big midlife lady pursuit. I mean, I it

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Speaker 2: was so fun and it took up a lot of

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Speaker 2: mental even when it wasn't running, I was like thinking

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Speaker 2: on running, like the following running, but I had.

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Speaker 1: A whole thing with it, like you were buying the

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Speaker 1: shoes and you were listening to the running podcasts and

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Speaker 1: all that.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, yeah, so I feel like I'm actively looking

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Speaker 2: for some subs. I do feel like I could be

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Speaker 2: a yoga lady, like that could be part of it,

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Speaker 2: But then I also want something that's not physical specifically.

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Speaker 1: Okay, I kind.

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Speaker 2: Of like feel like cooking might be a thing maybe,

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Speaker 2: but like.

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Speaker 1: How would you make that sort of hobbyish versus like

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Speaker 1: I need to cook dinner for my family.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so I thought about maybe like cooking through a

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Speaker 2: cookbook again, which is something I've done before, and choosing

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Speaker 2: one that's kind of like has a cooking school feel

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Speaker 2: to it, like how to make the perfect egg, how

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Speaker 2: to make this. Now I wouldn't be able to do

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Speaker 2: this every night, but it could be like a fun

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Speaker 2: weekend activity that I like look forward to during the

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Speaker 2: week and like maybe read about the techniques and then

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Speaker 2: I like do them.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, have you ever thought about actually taking like

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Speaker 1: an in person cooking class or something.

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Speaker 2: I might, but I don't like to leave the house

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Speaker 2: at night very often.

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Speaker 4: I know.

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Speaker 1: But if it's a weekend activity already, I mean, then

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Speaker 1: it could be a Saturday afternoon sort of thing, right,

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Speaker 1: It's true, Okay, I wouldn't rule it out. Yeah, all right,

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Speaker 1: what about you? Well, I guess singing is sort of

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Speaker 1: my midlife lady leisure pursuit. You know. I'm now into

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Speaker 1: two choirs. This is sort of humorous because many years ago,

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Speaker 1: when I first moved to New York City, I was

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Speaker 1: like in three choirs right when I was just on

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Speaker 1: my own and like self employed, so I wasn't seeing

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Speaker 1: people like during the day, and so I wound up

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Speaker 1: joining three choirs to have things to get me out

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Speaker 1: of the house at night, and then slowly that dwindled

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Speaker 1: down to one. After I got married and started a family.

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Speaker 1: Sang in the Young New Yorker's Chorus for many years,

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Speaker 1: and then we left New York and I was not

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Speaker 1: there for a while, and then I started up singing

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Speaker 1: with my church choir here in Pennsylvania about almost eight

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Speaker 1: years ago, and it was great. I enjoyed it. I'm

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Speaker 1: still doing that and I've gotten to Jasper join us

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Speaker 1: for some of our singing, which has been fun as well.

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Speaker 1: But then I also was like, well, you know, I

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Speaker 1: could do more, and I sang with a different choir

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Speaker 1: to do the B Minor Mass over the holidays this

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Speaker 1: year as something off my bucket list, and I was like, well,

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Speaker 1: my fun to keep singing with them. So I happened.

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Speaker 1: So now I'm back into two choirs and so that's

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Speaker 1: my Monday and Thursday nights now. But I think I

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Speaker 1: do think there's one of her, like midlife lady leisure

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Speaker 1: pursuit things is like a lot of it's kind of

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Speaker 1: tinkering or like fitting in spaces of time, and so

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Speaker 1: I've been pondering with that. I mean, maybe my puzzles

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Speaker 1: are that. Do you think that counts?

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Speaker 2: I think that counts, especially if they're I mean, the

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Speaker 2: only thing with puzzles is it's not really like a

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Speaker 2: lot of growth element unless you're doing harder and harder

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Speaker 2: puzzles or something.

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Speaker 1: Maybe because there needs to be a growth element. I

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Speaker 1: can't just like maybe there doesn't bread and let it

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Speaker 1: go and like enjoy the bread and then keep making it.

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Speaker 1: I don't know that there's growth in everything. I don't know.

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Speaker 2: I really growth appeals to me a lot, even if

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Speaker 2: it's like really minor growth, like oh, I'll learn one

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Speaker 2: new yoga pose, or like I'll learn a cooking technique

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Speaker 2: I didn't know before. Like it doesn't have to be

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Speaker 2: fancy growth or like winning. I do you feel like

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Speaker 2: there's some sort of like progression that makes hobbies more

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Speaker 2: fun for me? But maybe that's a mean thing.

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Speaker 1: Well, I would say there probably has been some progression

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Speaker 1: on the puzzle front. I can tell you I'm better

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Speaker 1: at them than people who've like never done puzzles before.

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Speaker 1: Like they're picking up and like what do I do

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Speaker 1: with this piece? Is like I mean I cannot do

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Speaker 1: quickly like I know how, I have a strategy. Oh

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Speaker 1: so then I think, yeah, I think it totally counts. Yeah, okay,

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Speaker 1: all right, I can not.

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Speaker 2: Even do a twenty piece puzzle while you did like

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Speaker 2: a five hundred piece puzzle.

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Speaker 1: Like I'm not kidding, there is a certain but yeah, yeah, okay,

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Speaker 1: Well then there we go. Although I don't like to

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Speaker 1: come up with ones that are too challenging because then

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Speaker 1: it is kind of my late night brainless sort of thing.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, there are some that's like all blue, and

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Speaker 1: I'm like, no, no, no, I will not be doing that.

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Speaker 1: I need lots of kitschy art in.

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Speaker 2: It to make it to a blue puzzle that's like

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Speaker 2: all punishment is a punishment.

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't want to do that. All right, Well, let's

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Speaker 1: se what Megan Francis has to say. Well, Sarah and

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Speaker 1: I are delighted to welcome Megan Francis to the show.

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Speaker 1: So Megan, introduce yourself to our listeners.

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Speaker 4: Hello, Hello, So yeah, I'm Megan Francis. I'm a mom

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Speaker 4: of five. I'm a podcaster co host of the mom

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Speaker 4: Our podcast. We've been in production for ten years, and

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Speaker 4: I know that we've done some cross interviews with you guys.

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Speaker 4: I can't remember which group of us was on which show.

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Speaker 4: I feel like you were on The mom Hour with

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Speaker 4: me and Sarah, my co host, was on Best of

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Speaker 4: Both Worlds with yours Sarah.

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Speaker 1: That is quite possible, Okay, I'd have to look through

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Speaker 1: the archive.

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Speaker 4: I and you and I go way back in the

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Speaker 4: world of freelance writing. I've been a parenting writer primarily

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Speaker 4: for gosh, over twenty years now.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, we go way back.

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Speaker 4: And I have a lot going on in my life

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Speaker 4: where my kids are getting older. I got a divorce,

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Speaker 4: I got remarried, I now have step children, I have

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Speaker 4: a step grand baby, Laura.

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Speaker 1: I'm in that world something.

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Speaker 4: It's something, so yeah, that's kind of me in a nutshell.

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Speaker 4: I live here in Michigan and I'm always loving to

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Speaker 4: I don't know, just be trying new things.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, And Megan has a brand new book called

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Speaker 1: The Last Parenting Book You'll Ever Read, which is a

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Speaker 1: wonderful title, by the way. And you said you didn't

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Speaker 1: really want to write another parenting book, and yes, here

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Speaker 1: you are. Yes, So what happened what led you to this? Well,

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Speaker 1: you know how.

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Speaker 4: Kids get senior writis And I know this because I

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Speaker 4: went through this last year. My fourth son was a

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Speaker 4: high school senior and I feel like he has the

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Speaker 4: worst scenior writers I've ever seen.

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Speaker 3: And he was a very good student. And at some

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Speaker 3: point I.

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Speaker 4: Thought, oh, this is just like how I feel about

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Speaker 4: writing about parenting. Like I'm ready. It's been a great run.

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Speaker 4: I'm ready to be done. Can we just move on?

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Speaker 4: So I actually had a book proposal all about midlife

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Speaker 4: and kind of like mid life reinvention, and I was

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Speaker 4: pitching that and my agent, you know, kept getting rejected.

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Speaker 4: And my agent said, I hate to be like this,

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Speaker 4: but don't you think you have something to say about

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Speaker 4: parenting in this stage? I was like, yeah, but I

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Speaker 4: don't want to, you know. It was kind of like

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Speaker 4: a little bit of resistance to revisiting themes that I've

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Speaker 4: been talking about now for so long on the podcast

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Speaker 4: and for so long in other writing I've done, which

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Speaker 4: has included other parenting books, that I thought, do I

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Speaker 4: have anything left to say? Is there really do I

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Speaker 4: even want to even inhabit this time of my life

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Speaker 4: or do I just want to jump forward? And I

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Speaker 4: think what I decided is that I don't get to

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Speaker 4: jump forward, like I'm still in it. My daughter, who's

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Speaker 4: the last kid in my house, she's a sophomore. I'm

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Speaker 4: still very much in it for the next two and

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Speaker 4: a half three years with a kid in the house,

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Speaker 4: and I am living this right now.

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Speaker 3: I don't just get to jump to the next thing.

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Speaker 4: I actually have a lot to say about the transition

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Speaker 4: that I'm in.

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Speaker 3: So I got over it.

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Speaker 4: I had an attitude adjustment once I decided that for me,

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Speaker 4: it wouldn't be meaningful to write about midlife if I

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Speaker 4: didn't include the transition of my motherhood story as part

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Speaker 4: of it, which has been such a big part of

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Speaker 4: my life. In your life and the content we create

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Speaker 4: in all of.

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Speaker 1: That, Yeah, so I think you called it lame duck parenting.

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Speaker 1: At some point, it's like the last year of a

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Speaker 1: presidential administration, Like you know it's going to be over,

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Speaker 1: but you still have to run things.

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Speaker 4: You're still do run things, and nobody cares that you're

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Speaker 4: there anymore. That's how it feels like. My kids are

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Speaker 4: just they don't know what they don't know about life.

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Speaker 4: They have no idea how dumb they are about life

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Speaker 4: right now, and it's my job to help them figure

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Speaker 4: it out while also help them feel like they're the

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Speaker 4: ones figuring it out, do you know what I mean,

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Speaker 4: Like to help them feel a little smarter than they

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Speaker 4: actually are.

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Speaker 1: YEA, Yeah, Well, a lot of random texts about like

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Speaker 1: things that maybe should be obvious or should not be obvious,

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Speaker 1: like how do I pay at the dentist's office. I

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Speaker 1: believe that was one of the ones you got.

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Speaker 4: Yes, yes, yes, like so many random texts and questions,

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Speaker 4: and in some ways it's flattering. I'm like, wow, you

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Speaker 4: really I'm still the center of your world in a way.

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Speaker 4: You really still think of me as this person who

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Speaker 4: knows everything? And then I'll think, is it possible that

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Speaker 4: I just missed an opportunity to teach you this? But actually,

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Speaker 4: look back at your life when you were eighteen or nineteen,

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Speaker 4: you didn't know anything. I didn't know anything at eighteen

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Speaker 4: or nineteen. I just I conveniently forget how much my

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Speaker 4: parents were still guiding me through things at that stage.

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Speaker 1: To a degree. I mean, although we couldn't reach able

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Speaker 1: as easily.

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Speaker 3: It's very very true. So I guess they just went

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Speaker 3: undone a lot of the time.

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Speaker 1: So if you had a question in the dentist office,

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Speaker 1: you were kind of stuck.

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Speaker 3: That is very true.

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Speaker 1: Unless the receptionist was going to call your mom, which

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Speaker 1: seemed probably.

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Speaker 3: A little talk. Then I know, no, they probably would.

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Speaker 4: Honestly, they probably would be like, wait, why are you

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Speaker 4: here without your mommy?

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Speaker 3: You're only twenty Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Exactly exactly. It does stretch out the growing up process

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Speaker 1: a little bit. But you know you have to grow

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Speaker 1: and change too. I think you talk a little bit

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Speaker 1: in the book about rewriting some of that mom muscle memory. Yeah, right,

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Speaker 1: Like there are various things you discover are have changed

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Speaker 1: just because life has changed. I mean, even like going

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Speaker 1: to the mall.

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Speaker 4: Right, yeah, the example I gave of going to the

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Speaker 4: mall was like something I thought was fun until my

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Speaker 4: second child was like old enough to climb out of

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Speaker 4: the stroller. And then by the time I had the third, no,

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Speaker 4: thank you, I do not want to shop recreationally ever again.

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Speaker 4: And so I didn't darken the doors of the mall

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Speaker 4: for a really long time. And then a couple of

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Speaker 4: years ago, when I just was down to two kids

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Speaker 4: in the house and one was in driver's training and

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Speaker 4: I was having to let him drive me about the

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Speaker 4: countryside as it goes, he said, well, let's go to

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Speaker 4: the mall. And I was like, oh, the mall. And

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Speaker 4: then I thought, well, wait, this is great. I have

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Speaker 4: two teenagers, they can just go do whatever. I can

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Speaker 4: hang out in Barnes and Noble and get a pretzel.

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Speaker 3: Nothing could be better.

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Speaker 4: But in my mind I still had that like the

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Speaker 4: back of my neck tensed up because I thought, oh,

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Speaker 4: this is going to be awful. There's going to be

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Speaker 4: you know, a three year old running around and bumping

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Speaker 4: into the mannequins and feeling them up and stuff. And

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Speaker 4: none of that happened because I don't have a three

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Speaker 4: year old anymore. Dinner time, getting dinner on the table

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Speaker 4: is not a hassle anymore. It's a pleasure now. And

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Speaker 4: I've had to sort of rewire the way I approached

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Speaker 4: things that once would have been really stressful or hard

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Speaker 4: or impossible to say.

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Speaker 3: Like, what's possible now? What's actually stressful?

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Speaker 1: Now?

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Speaker 4: Some of these things that I just think are stressful aren't.

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Speaker 4: And yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 1: Although it's funny, I think about this with larger families

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Speaker 1: and having a lot of kids, because your older two

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Speaker 1: kids got to go to the mall, and now your

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Speaker 1: younger two kids got to go to the mall. Number three,

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Speaker 1: I guess just is at the parenting experience where there

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Speaker 1: was no.

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Speaker 4: Mall, no pictures, you know, poor kid. He also was

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Speaker 4: my middle was at the time when digital photography was

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Speaker 4: becoming in but it was awful.

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Speaker 1: And yes, yes there's no pictures either. Pictures I have.

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Speaker 3: So many photos of him.

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Speaker 4: They're just lost of time, or they're just grainy, like

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Speaker 4: pixelated junk on a hard drive somewhere.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, they just get it, don't they, or they

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Speaker 3: don't they.

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Speaker 1: Do or they don't. Yeah, no, I know, I looked

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Speaker 1: at it. We have a bunch of printed photos of

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Speaker 1: my oldest because that was still when you were printing

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Speaker 1: up photos. And then of course the youngest has had

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Speaker 1: every day documented through you know iPhone that I still have, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: my iCloud photos that I could look at tomorrow or

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Speaker 1: today right in like two seconds. But yeah, the middle ones,

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Speaker 1: it's sort.

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Speaker 3: Of like, oh, you know, we're here, right, I do,

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Speaker 3: we were here.

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Speaker 1: I don't know the second one, in particular, there may

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Speaker 1: be very few photos of the babyhood, so yeah, no

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Speaker 1: reminding or even just how much stuff you buy in

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Speaker 1: the grocery store, right, yeah, Oh my gosh.

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Speaker 3: I was just thinking about this the other day.

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Speaker 4: I went to Aldie and I was in and out

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Speaker 4: in fifteen minutes, and I had an entire weeks with

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Speaker 4: the groceries that fit in one bag. And even I

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Speaker 4: think I mentioned this in the book, I even find

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Speaker 4: myself eyeballing the half loaves of bread, which I once

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Speaker 4: would have thought were like for senior citizens, you.

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Speaker 3: Know, like people with low appetites.

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Speaker 4: But now sometimes if I buy a whole loaf of

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Speaker 4: bread or a gallon of milk, it just sits there

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Speaker 4: and we really have to work hard to go through

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Speaker 4: the food that escalated and de escalated so quickly. It

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Speaker 4: was such a focus, and you're probably still really in

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Speaker 4: that like high calorie consumption, like the peak getting a

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Speaker 4: meal on the table, You're thinking mass, You're thinking what

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Speaker 4: quantities can I get? How do I cook many things

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Speaker 4: at once or batch? Because not because box and a

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Speaker 4: half apostas, iast like no normal portions ever going to

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Speaker 4: make it for your family, You're going to have to

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Speaker 4: double or triple. I remember really coveting like a double

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Speaker 4: wall of an plus arrange with the doublop, and I thought,

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Speaker 4: if I could just do that, then I could have

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Speaker 4: everything going at once that I could feed everyone. And

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Speaker 4: now it's like, oh, I really don't have to think

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Speaker 4: about food much at all. I'm kind of shifting to

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Speaker 4: where I want to because it's fun because I had

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Speaker 4: the time in the space to do it so differently

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Speaker 4: than I did, and that's been hard too. Because I

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Speaker 4: got a divorce eight years ago. So the year that

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Speaker 4: I got divorced, my oldest was just graduated from high

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Speaker 4: school and my youngest was seven. So suddenly the kids

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Speaker 4: were going to their dads every other week, and so

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Speaker 4: it was like every other week I still had to

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Speaker 4: be super on and cook huge meals, but then the

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Speaker 4: alternate week it was like me and leftovers from going

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Speaker 4: out to the restaurant, and so then it was like okay,

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Speaker 4: So finally got used to that, and then the kids

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Speaker 4: started leaving. But then they came back, Laura, because it

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Speaker 4: was COVID.

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Speaker 3: They all came back. They all came back.

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Speaker 1: It was like, I don't know what to do.

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Speaker 4: I'm it's up, it's down, It's all over the place.

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Speaker 4: Now I'm on a definite down words swing though, where

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Speaker 4: you know, I'm coming into a busy time of my life.

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Speaker 4: And I told my daughter the other day, Clara, I'm

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Speaker 4: just gonna need you to just handle your own meals

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Speaker 4: for a while. So I put a list on the

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Speaker 4: instead of filling out the little meal thing that I

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Speaker 4: still have on the fridge, even though I don't really

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Speaker 4: need that anymore, kinds of comfort thing. It's like from

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Speaker 4: that younger stage of motherhood. Instead of filling that out

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Speaker 4: like I usually would, I just posted a little piece

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Speaker 4: of paper on the fridge that just said ideas for you,

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Speaker 4: because what I don't want is her coming to me and.

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Speaker 3: Being like, let's see you for dinner.

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Speaker 1: What should I make?

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Speaker 3: I don't know.

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Speaker 4: So I just have everything I think she can handle

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Speaker 4: more or less on her own, and I'm just like,

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Speaker 4: pick one, Just go pick one one.

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Speaker 1: Yep, they can't feed them. So that's true. That's true. Well,

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Speaker 1: we're going to take a quick ad break and I

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Speaker 1: will be back with more from Megan Francis. Well, I

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Speaker 1: am back talking with Megan Francis, who is the author

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Speaker 1: of the new book, The Last Parenting Book You'll Ever

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Speaker 1: read for many years, Megan, you've also been running a podcast, yeah,

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Speaker 1: called The Mom Hour, and that is, you know, as

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Speaker 1: we're reinventing ourselves and transitioning, that is transitioning as well.

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Speaker 1: What's going on with that?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, Well, sort of along the same lines of me

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Speaker 4: not wanting to write another book about parenting at some point.

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Speaker 4: Sarah and I have Sarah Powers as my co host.

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Speaker 4: She lives in California. I live in Michigan. So we've

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Speaker 4: been doing this long distance for a really long time,

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Speaker 4: and I have more older kids than her, but the

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Speaker 4: younger ones hers aren't that much further behind me.

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Speaker 3: She's got her three or so into the roof.

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Speaker 4: But teenagers an on their way onto whatever's next, and

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Speaker 4: the two of us now are on our way to

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Speaker 4: whatever's next. And I think what we kind of have

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Speaker 4: been circling around for a while is it's not just

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Speaker 4: that we don't want to make content that we would

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Speaker 4: have ten years ago that would appeal to young mom

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Speaker 4: of little kids. It's like, we can't. We don't have

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Speaker 4: our fingers on that pulse anymore. I don't know what

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Speaker 4: moms of new babies like, what strollers they're buying or what.

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Speaker 4: I kind of keep an eye on it, but sort

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Speaker 4: of in a in a way don't care anymore either,

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Speaker 4: which is a good sign it's time to move on.

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Speaker 4: So for a little while, the solution was sort of like, well,

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Speaker 4: on the podcast, let's just talk about that, Let's talk

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Speaker 4: about what this stage of parenting looks like, and talk

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Speaker 4: about our teens as much as we're comfortable talk about

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Speaker 4: how things are changing. And then you kind of run

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Speaker 4: out of things to say about that. I mean, you know,

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Speaker 4: as a podcaster sometimes you really have to dig deep

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Speaker 4: to find something fresh to talk about. And I think

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Speaker 4: where we finally wound up is someone had asked us

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Speaker 4: if we would do a podcast episode about things we

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Speaker 4: wish we had done differently with our teens, and I said,

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Speaker 4: I can't do that episode because A if I told

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Speaker 4: you the truth, then it would be very unhelpful, like

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Speaker 4: it would actually probably make people feel really bad. But

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Speaker 4: if I didn't tell the truth, I'd be lying, like

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Speaker 4: it wouldn't be real. And if I didn't tell you everything,

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Speaker 4: it would gloss over the hard stuff. So much about

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Speaker 4: parenting teenagers and then the shifting relationship into young adulthood

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Speaker 4: is not really about me or what I did or

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Speaker 4: didn't do, so there's no advice to give. Like I

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Speaker 4: did it, It's done, and do I wish I would

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Speaker 4: have done some things different, Sure, but I couldn't have

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Speaker 4: told you then what those things were. And some are

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Speaker 4: very surprising even to me now. And it's my kid's story,

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Speaker 4: so don't want to talk about it. And so I

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Speaker 4: think we finally came to a stage where we thought

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Speaker 4: it's just time to bring that to an end. So

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Speaker 4: that podcast is ten years old, turned ten last month

438
00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:40,760
Speaker 4: actually in March, and now we're going to be winding

439
00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:42,640
Speaker 4: it down and so at the end of June, which

440
00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:46,840
Speaker 4: kind of coincides with my book which is out in May,

441
00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:49,760
Speaker 4: it's going to be done, like we're ceasing publication. You'll

442
00:19:49,760 --> 00:19:51,439
Speaker 4: still be able to find the archives. We have hundreds

443
00:19:51,440 --> 00:19:55,480
Speaker 4: and hundreds of episodes, so that'll still be there indefinitely.

444
00:19:55,720 --> 00:19:58,640
Speaker 3: But we just wanted to put kind.

445
00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:02,080
Speaker 4: Of a clean cap on that and it, yeah, called

446
00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:03,960
Speaker 4: the mom Our. There's not really a lot of other

447
00:20:04,119 --> 00:20:04,720
Speaker 4: places we.

448
00:20:04,680 --> 00:20:05,280
Speaker 1: Could go with.

449
00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:07,439
Speaker 4: It's not the kind of thing where we could just

450
00:20:07,440 --> 00:20:10,560
Speaker 4: shift our focus. So we're starting a brand new podcast

451
00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:14,879
Speaker 4: called Midlife Lady Leisure Pursuits and that is going to

452
00:20:14,920 --> 00:20:16,920
Speaker 4: be all about the things that we like to do

453
00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:18,639
Speaker 4: as middle aged ladies.

454
00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:21,359
Speaker 1: Awesome, and we're going to talk about that in a minute.

455
00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:24,000
Speaker 1: Good But I'm yeah, I'm kind of curious about this

456
00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:25,800
Speaker 1: because of course Sarah and I are thinking about this too.

457
00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:29,240
Speaker 1: Our youngest children are five and seven, so we still

458
00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:34,720
Speaker 1: have a fair we're still relevant, so fastic. Well yeah,

459
00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:36,200
Speaker 1: I mean, but this is the thing, I mean, and

460
00:20:36,280 --> 00:20:39,959
Speaker 1: certain we don't have babies or toddlers anymore, and a

461
00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:44,560
Speaker 1: lot of people find us they are like, it's recommended

462
00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:46,640
Speaker 1: that they listen to our show as they are going

463
00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:50,040
Speaker 1: back to work after maternity. Yes, right, And so we've

464
00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:53,120
Speaker 1: been pounder it like how do we keep serving up

465
00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:57,560
Speaker 1: relevant content for people in that stage of life?

466
00:20:57,600 --> 00:20:59,280
Speaker 4: So I don't know, yeah, and I think with something

467
00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:01,520
Speaker 4: like best of both worlds, like there is a place

468
00:21:01,560 --> 00:21:04,480
Speaker 4: to take that into any stage that you're in. But

469
00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:07,800
Speaker 4: you're right, it's tricky when people find you, like on

470
00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:10,480
Speaker 4: a specific topic and that episode. We've had people email

471
00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:13,719
Speaker 4: us before and say, hey, I'm looking for this resource

472
00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:16,880
Speaker 4: or something you mentioned in episode one hundred and we're like,

473
00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:19,320
Speaker 4: I mean, we forgot about that episode seven years ago.

474
00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:21,440
Speaker 4: I don't even remember of the episode we recorded two

475
00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:24,200
Speaker 4: weeks ago, let alone that long ago. But people don't

476
00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:27,119
Speaker 4: know exactly where you are, and then they realize.

477
00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:30,720
Speaker 3: Oh, this is really old content. It is really a

478
00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:31,280
Speaker 3: tricky thing.

479
00:21:31,320 --> 00:21:34,439
Speaker 4: And sometimes I think a rebrand isn't necessary, but sometimes

480
00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:37,320
Speaker 4: it's helpful to like put a container around the thing

481
00:21:37,359 --> 00:21:39,840
Speaker 4: that was and start a brand new thing that can

482
00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:40,840
Speaker 4: be what you want us to be.

483
00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:43,800
Speaker 1: So interesting, just something to think about, something to think

484
00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:46,360
Speaker 1: about or maybe we just have frequent guests with young

485
00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:49,240
Speaker 1: kids or figure that or that or that. Yeah, and

486
00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:51,240
Speaker 1: you know, you've also been reinventing yourself. I mean we

487
00:21:51,359 --> 00:21:54,000
Speaker 1: mentioned you got remarried, yeah, in twenty twenty three. I'm

488
00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:58,040
Speaker 1: very curious how being a midlife newlyywed is different from

489
00:21:58,040 --> 00:21:59,760
Speaker 1: being I mean, you were what like twenty.

490
00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:02,119
Speaker 3: The first Yeah, Oh my gosh.

491
00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:06,000
Speaker 4: Well, first of all, we're so much smarter when I

492
00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:07,800
Speaker 4: got married the first time around. And I think that's

493
00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:09,439
Speaker 4: true whether you get married for the first time when

494
00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:11,719
Speaker 4: you're twenty or thirty or you know, and wherever. I

495
00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:15,160
Speaker 4: just think there's so much you don't know about what

496
00:22:15,320 --> 00:22:19,720
Speaker 4: marriage is, and now we know those things. I think

497
00:22:20,359 --> 00:22:23,639
Speaker 4: the thing that has been most interesting that I didn't

498
00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:26,040
Speaker 4: really see coming as a challenge is that I got

499
00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:30,960
Speaker 4: really used to being alone, like living singly as a

500
00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:34,520
Speaker 4: grown up, a straight up grown up with grown children.

501
00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:35,639
Speaker 3: I got really used to that.

502
00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:38,520
Speaker 4: I got used to making all my own decisions about

503
00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:40,800
Speaker 4: how I was going to spend my money, or what

504
00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:42,960
Speaker 4: TV show I was going to watch or not watch,

505
00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:45,320
Speaker 4: like how I was going to decorate the living room,

506
00:22:45,359 --> 00:22:48,080
Speaker 4: whatever it was. It was all mine to decide for

507
00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:51,520
Speaker 4: kind of a long time. I was single for gosh,

508
00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:53,159
Speaker 4: I don't know I was. He and I have been

509
00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:54,840
Speaker 4: together for five years, but we just got married two

510
00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:56,760
Speaker 4: years ago, and I was divorced. I was probably like

511
00:22:56,800 --> 00:22:59,560
Speaker 4: totally on my own for six is years, and that

512
00:22:59,720 --> 00:23:01,919
Speaker 4: was just enough time to kind of dig in. So

513
00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:05,240
Speaker 4: another nice thing, though, is it's really fun because we're

514
00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:08,760
Speaker 4: on the other side of all that family building, life building,

515
00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:09,439
Speaker 4: career building.

516
00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:10,520
Speaker 3: We're coasting now.

517
00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:13,920
Speaker 4: We're not doing all that hardcore career building anymore. We're

518
00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:16,520
Speaker 4: not we're not raising a young family. So we have

519
00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:18,840
Speaker 4: a lot of leisure time and we have a lot

520
00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:21,240
Speaker 4: of time to just say, Okay, here's what we've done,

521
00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:24,280
Speaker 4: here's what we've built. Now what like, what does this

522
00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:26,080
Speaker 4: next stage of our lives look like? And we get

523
00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:28,400
Speaker 4: to do it together without that baggage from the past,

524
00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:31,159
Speaker 4: which is really nice and very lovely. So it's been

525
00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:34,520
Speaker 4: mostly mostly really positive, with a few times of me going,

526
00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:36,159
Speaker 4: oh my gosh, I need some space, like where do

527
00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:36,480
Speaker 4: I go?

528
00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:38,200
Speaker 3: I got a room of my own?

529
00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:41,160
Speaker 1: Well, and you get to try out the grandma life, right.

530
00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:42,840
Speaker 3: Actually, yes, I have.

531
00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:46,439
Speaker 4: So by the time Eric and I got married, his

532
00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:49,640
Speaker 4: son oldest son. He's got a son and a daughter.

533
00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:53,040
Speaker 4: The oldest had been remarried and then they had a baby,

534
00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:57,080
Speaker 4: like a few months after we got married. So I

535
00:23:57,119 --> 00:24:00,080
Speaker 4: get to be a grandma, which is I was not

536
00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:00,639
Speaker 4: ready for that.

537
00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:02,639
Speaker 3: And now it could be like any of my older

538
00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:05,480
Speaker 3: kids could procreate at any moment.

539
00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:07,520
Speaker 1: I mean, could happen.

540
00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:09,399
Speaker 3: That would be surprising to me right now, but it

541
00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:09,960
Speaker 3: could happen.

542
00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:10,800
Speaker 1: It could happen.

543
00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:15,199
Speaker 4: But I just didn't see it coming quite so. Like

544
00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:17,640
Speaker 4: it was like a few months, you know, it was like, oh,

545
00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:19,840
Speaker 4: here I am marrying into this family where there's already

546
00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:21,919
Speaker 4: this baby on the way, and it's been lovely, Like

547
00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:25,159
Speaker 4: being at Grandma's kind of the best. It's actually, I

548
00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:29,040
Speaker 4: think being in a blended family the grandma that's not

549
00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:32,280
Speaker 4: the biological ties even better because I just get to

550
00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:34,600
Speaker 4: truly show up and play with the baby. But I

551
00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:39,400
Speaker 4: have no baggage, Like however they raise this baby.

552
00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:40,159
Speaker 1: It has nothing to do with you, to do with me.

553
00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:44,080
Speaker 4: It's not reflective of anything I did. It doesn't feel

554
00:24:44,119 --> 00:24:47,920
Speaker 4: like a rejection of my parenting. And I actually kind

555
00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:49,639
Speaker 4: of jive with a lot of what they're doing anyway,

556
00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:50,200
Speaker 4: which is great.

557
00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:52,160
Speaker 3: But even if I didn't, I'd be like, eh, whatever,

558
00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:53,680
Speaker 3: it's their life, so do they do that.

559
00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:55,199
Speaker 4: They do them, and I just get to show up

560
00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:58,280
Speaker 4: and play and it's lovely. Oh my gosh, she's talking now.

561
00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:01,520
Speaker 4: We decided he's going to call me Meme because I

562
00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:03,960
Speaker 4: kind of wanted a cute grandma name. And yeah, yeah,

563
00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:08,159
Speaker 4: he's already got two grandma's and two grandpa's, so it's like,

564
00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:09,920
Speaker 4: all right, well, who can I be this a little

565
00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:10,399
Speaker 4: bit different?

566
00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:11,560
Speaker 3: And I just decided.

567
00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:14,720
Speaker 4: I looked it up and it said it's a fun,

568
00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:17,880
Speaker 4: loving and sessey grandma name or something, and I thought, oh,

569
00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:19,399
Speaker 4: I like that, Let's just do it.

570
00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:22,320
Speaker 1: Maybe I'll go for there. Maybe that'll be my grandma name. Someday.

571
00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:23,439
Speaker 1: We'll see to think about that.

572
00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:25,000
Speaker 4: But you have some on ramp because they don't come

573
00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:26,640
Speaker 4: out talking, so you don't have.

574
00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:27,640
Speaker 3: To worry about it for a little bit.

575
00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:29,560
Speaker 1: To worry about that later. Yeah. All right, Well, we're

576
00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:31,240
Speaker 1: gonna take one more quick ad break and then I'll

577
00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:45,960
Speaker 1: be back with more from Megan Francis. Well, I am

578
00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:48,879
Speaker 1: back talking with Megan Francis, who is the author of

579
00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:52,040
Speaker 1: the brand new book The Last Parenting Book You'll Ever Read.

580
00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:55,280
Speaker 1: She's been talking about transitioning The Mom Hour out to

581
00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:59,760
Speaker 1: ending publication of that and launching her new podcast about

582
00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:02,440
Speaker 1: mid life Lady Pursuit. So I want to talk about

583
00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:06,000
Speaker 1: midlife lady pursuits. I think you have a phrase in

584
00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:10,919
Speaker 1: the book that creativity is the new fertility. Yes, what

585
00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:13,159
Speaker 1: is a midlife lady pleisure pursuit? How is this?

586
00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:18,400
Speaker 4: Well, here's the thing, Sarah and I my co host Sarah,

587
00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:21,520
Speaker 4: we have a theory that in their forties, you know,

588
00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:23,280
Speaker 4: unless they have like a newborn in their forties, in

589
00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:24,960
Speaker 4: that case, you're probably pushing it off.

590
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:28,199
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, we had that for it. Yes, well, my

591
00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:31,080
Speaker 1: midlife lady pleleisher pursuits are gonna be a little bit lurterer.

592
00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:31,879
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, yeah.

593
00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:35,680
Speaker 4: So at some point in midlife, all women either take

594
00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:42,320
Speaker 4: up yoga, start getting puppies, like fancy puppies, I chicken chickens.

595
00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:43,520
Speaker 3: I've got those two.

596
00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:47,800
Speaker 4: They get really into something, right, they garden, We could

597
00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:50,119
Speaker 4: think of the watercolor painting whatever. We could think of

598
00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:54,560
Speaker 4: a million stereotypes and they're kind of true. And a

599
00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:57,240
Speaker 4: lot of that is because we now have our hands free,

600
00:26:57,280 --> 00:27:01,800
Speaker 4: we have the ability to dabble again. All of that

601
00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:04,359
Speaker 4: heart not that we're not still career building, but it

602
00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:06,240
Speaker 4: doesn't have that say, I don't know. I can't speak

603
00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:09,280
Speaker 4: for you, Laura, but for me, the energy I had

604
00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:13,440
Speaker 4: behind building a career, say twenty years ago or even

605
00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:15,879
Speaker 4: ten years ago, it's a very different energy now, I

606
00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:21,280
Speaker 4: would say now it's more like a sustained yet like

607
00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:24,840
Speaker 4: restrained energy. Maybe that's the right way to put it,

608
00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:26,560
Speaker 4: Like I'm going to try this. I'm going to see

609
00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:29,240
Speaker 4: if it works. If it doesn't, great, I still want.

610
00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:31,119
Speaker 3: To be productive. I still want to be doing things.

611
00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:34,359
Speaker 4: I love to work, but I don't feel that burn

612
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:38,000
Speaker 4: to make a mark anymore that I once did. And

613
00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:42,520
Speaker 4: so it's lovely. It opens up a lot of mental

614
00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:46,440
Speaker 4: space and the ability to kind of take a step

615
00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:48,280
Speaker 4: back and say, like, how do I want to spend

616
00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:51,520
Speaker 4: the next two three four decades of my life? What

617
00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:53,600
Speaker 4: do I want to try that I haven't gotten around to,

618
00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:55,680
Speaker 4: Maybe because my kids were too little, Maybe because I

619
00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:58,080
Speaker 4: thought it was sort of frivolous and dumb, and like,

620
00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:02,119
Speaker 4: why there's so much talk right now about nervous systems.

621
00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:06,040
Speaker 4: I'm not a wellness buru. I don't know, but I

622
00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:08,800
Speaker 4: do sometimes look back and think, Man, I put my

623
00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:11,200
Speaker 4: nervous system through a lot when I had so many

624
00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:14,000
Speaker 4: little kids, and I was trying to do so much,

625
00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:17,360
Speaker 4: so intensely, and I just don't want to.

626
00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:19,879
Speaker 3: Do that right now. I want some leisure pursuits.

627
00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:24,320
Speaker 4: So for me that yes, I have chickens, and I

628
00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:27,400
Speaker 4: talk to my chickens and I call them my little babies.

629
00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:30,200
Speaker 3: And I don't cuddle them. They're not cuddle chickens. Sit

630
00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:30,720
Speaker 3: in pan.

631
00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:33,120
Speaker 4: They didn't touch them in lovely chickens. No, I didn't

632
00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:35,840
Speaker 4: touch them enough when they were babies. But that, for me,

633
00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:39,120
Speaker 4: is a leisure pursuit. Writing in some ways, even though

634
00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:41,200
Speaker 4: it's been a career for so long, can become a

635
00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:44,720
Speaker 4: leisure pursuit if I come at it with that mindset.

636
00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:49,080
Speaker 4: I took up embroidery. I love embroidering, like using my hands.

637
00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:53,320
Speaker 4: I'm making sour dough bread, I make yogurt and cheese.

638
00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:55,640
Speaker 1: I feel like I know it's all one baby cliche.

639
00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:59,520
Speaker 4: I know I am the cliche. But cliches are there

640
00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:00,000
Speaker 4: for a reason.

641
00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:00,680
Speaker 3: Right.

642
00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:03,280
Speaker 1: Well, let's say somebody doesn't know what part of the

643
00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:06,280
Speaker 1: cliche they want to be. Yah, how does one go

644
00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:07,440
Speaker 1: about figuring this out?

645
00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:09,560
Speaker 4: I think you have to just try things on. And

646
00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:13,320
Speaker 4: for me, it really felt like going back to before

647
00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:15,560
Speaker 4: I had kids. And sometimes it's hard before you were

648
00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:20,120
Speaker 4: a teenager too, because teenager kind of throws you into

649
00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:22,680
Speaker 4: a you're not quite yourself, you know what I mean?

650
00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:25,800
Speaker 4: Like during that time of life, for me, it was

651
00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:28,760
Speaker 4: like going back to being eight years old and thinking

652
00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:31,760
Speaker 4: what gave me pleasure? What was I fascinated by. I

653
00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:36,120
Speaker 4: remember my mom had all these embroidered pillowcases and I

654
00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:39,479
Speaker 4: would just run my finger along the embroidery, and I

655
00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:42,520
Speaker 4: was so fascinated. I was never quite as fascinated by

656
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:47,280
Speaker 4: the way with knitted things, which probably explains why knitting

657
00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:48,720
Speaker 4: I'm like, eh, you know, I'd like to take it

658
00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:50,160
Speaker 4: up at some point just to see if I could

659
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:53,560
Speaker 4: do it. But I wasn't, as I guess, enamored with

660
00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:57,600
Speaker 4: that as I was decorative stitches. And so what does

661
00:29:57,640 --> 00:29:59,240
Speaker 4: that tell me about how I might want to spend

662
00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:01,760
Speaker 4: my time now? Same thing with when I used to

663
00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:04,240
Speaker 4: make art. Before I thought I was bad at making art.

664
00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:08,240
Speaker 4: I used to love to paint and put paint on paper,

665
00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:10,320
Speaker 4: and then I got the idea, wasn't any good at it?

666
00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:10,520
Speaker 1: Now?

667
00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:11,160
Speaker 3: Was I good at it?

668
00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:12,920
Speaker 4: No? I'm not good at it, but it doesn't matter.

669
00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:14,920
Speaker 4: I'm not doing it to be good at it. I'm

670
00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:17,800
Speaker 4: not trying to build a side hustle. It's just leisure.

671
00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:21,440
Speaker 4: It's a way to use my hands and chill my

672
00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:24,320
Speaker 4: brain out a little bit and create in a way

673
00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:25,920
Speaker 4: that doesn't have a lot of strings attached.

674
00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:28,959
Speaker 1: Yeah, when you shift to this moment of trying to

675
00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:33,440
Speaker 1: fill time, yeah, as opposed to constantly grasping.

676
00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:38,200
Speaker 4: At Absolutely there is something to that idea of like, wow,

677
00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:40,640
Speaker 4: I have time, and I could stare at a screen,

678
00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:43,240
Speaker 4: or I could try to cook up another business idea,

679
00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:44,400
Speaker 4: which I'm too good at.

680
00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:47,160
Speaker 3: I need less of that in my life sometimes.

681
00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:49,440
Speaker 4: Or you know, I could just sit here and like

682
00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:52,880
Speaker 4: while away an hour just because I want to, just

683
00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:56,040
Speaker 4: because I could just be. And that was a hard

684
00:30:56,040 --> 00:30:58,040
Speaker 4: place for me to get to, you know, as a

685
00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:02,040
Speaker 4: mom of many, many kids and doing all these other things,

686
00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:05,640
Speaker 4: and especially working from home, Like you don't look at

687
00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:08,440
Speaker 4: time as something that is abundant. Often you look at

688
00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:12,800
Speaker 4: it as things you break down into small chunks. I

689
00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:15,800
Speaker 4: remember when I had lists all over my office of

690
00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:18,120
Speaker 4: things I could do in five minutes, ten minutes, fifteen minutes,

691
00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:21,120
Speaker 4: because then if I found myself with five minutes, I'd

692
00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:22,040
Speaker 4: be like, ooh, what can I do?

693
00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:23,360
Speaker 3: Okay, jump into that.

694
00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:25,800
Speaker 4: Now I've already used up ten seconds, so I've only

695
00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:28,400
Speaker 4: got four minutes and fifty seconds now. I don't have

696
00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:32,360
Speaker 4: to think like that really hardly ever, And it's quite lovely.

697
00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:37,320
Speaker 1: Actually, it's a different world entirely exactly exactly. Although I've

698
00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:42,080
Speaker 1: been pondering with figuring out how to incorporate older children

699
00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:45,360
Speaker 1: into things right like that, It'd be great if somebody

700
00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:47,680
Speaker 1: wanted to travel with you, but you don't know that

701
00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:49,800
Speaker 1: they'd be available. I mean, I guess you just have

702
00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:52,680
Speaker 1: to be a little bit more flexible with the planning

703
00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:53,480
Speaker 1: on things like that.

704
00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:57,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, I actually was just thinking about that because I

705
00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:02,920
Speaker 4: feel like with my older sons, not my oldest, but

706
00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:05,080
Speaker 4: my second and third, I feel like I sort of

707
00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:07,400
Speaker 4: missed a window. There was a lot of chaos happening

708
00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:08,800
Speaker 4: when they were of the age where we might have

709
00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:11,120
Speaker 4: gotten some time to do things like that. And I think, gosh,

710
00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:15,440
Speaker 4: it would be really nice to go someplace with them individually,

711
00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:19,080
Speaker 4: each each kid, and get that alone time that I

712
00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:21,600
Speaker 4: really didn't get. But they're going to have to kind

713
00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:23,880
Speaker 4: of direct that I think, and that's hard. Like I

714
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:26,120
Speaker 4: would like to say, hey, let's pick a week and

715
00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:28,520
Speaker 4: let's do this in this and they've got their own

716
00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:31,920
Speaker 4: they're doing the young twenties thing, and that might not

717
00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:35,800
Speaker 4: work with their work schedule or their school schedule, or

718
00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:38,600
Speaker 4: their life or their girlfriends or whatever, like whatever they're doing.

719
00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:40,880
Speaker 4: So I think I have to kind of hold on

720
00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:45,239
Speaker 4: to those goals. I once like those ideals just with

721
00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:49,200
Speaker 4: a loose script because some of them might not happen.

722
00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:52,320
Speaker 4: And when you're the manager of your home, it's up

723
00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:54,880
Speaker 4: to you if it happens, and you're good at making

724
00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:57,800
Speaker 4: stuff happen, Laura, So like it's really hard to let

725
00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:00,960
Speaker 4: go when you're like, now it's I can't make them

726
00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:03,560
Speaker 4: show up for this. I can't make them care. They

727
00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:06,440
Speaker 4: don't live here anymore, so they get to decide, and

728
00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:08,760
Speaker 4: that is emotionally. That's been a little bit tough for

729
00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:12,320
Speaker 4: me at the holidays, especially like that every Christmas for

730
00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:13,840
Speaker 4: the last three or four years, I've thought, is this

731
00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:15,920
Speaker 4: it is this the last one where we all show

732
00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:18,560
Speaker 4: up because next year someone might be in a different

733
00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:22,880
Speaker 4: country or have a significant other and decide they don't

734
00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:23,440
Speaker 4: want to come home.

735
00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:24,880
Speaker 3: And any Christmas.

736
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:28,120
Speaker 1: It could be any Christmas, it could be one anyone

737
00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:32,360
Speaker 1: exactly exactly. Well, so Megan, we always end with a

738
00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:36,640
Speaker 1: love of the week. Okay, So I mean I could

739
00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:40,280
Speaker 1: go first, Well, what I would say? I really like

740
00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:44,360
Speaker 1: the small world of writing? Because guys, I got it.

741
00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:47,000
Speaker 1: You know. I have an advanced copy of Megan's book

742
00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:51,040
Speaker 1: and the three blurbs on the cover are like all

743
00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:54,160
Speaker 1: from friends with mine and I'm like, hey, I like

744
00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:56,560
Speaker 1: we could. We should have a party for all these people.

745
00:33:56,760 --> 00:33:57,320
Speaker 3: Let's do it.

746
00:33:57,600 --> 00:34:01,640
Speaker 1: I like that idea. How about you? What's good for

747
00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:02,600
Speaker 1: you this week?

748
00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:03,720
Speaker 3: Well?

749
00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:05,120
Speaker 4: I have to tell you I have been using my

750
00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:09,359
Speaker 4: library a lot lately, and we're recording this a little

751
00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:11,440
Speaker 4: bit ahead of time, and I actually just wrote a

752
00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:13,279
Speaker 4: blog post about how much I love my library, so

753
00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:15,840
Speaker 4: I'm kind of in that mental mode. But one of

754
00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:18,360
Speaker 4: the reasons I love it is that I decided that

755
00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:22,080
Speaker 4: I'm gonna have a different attitude about paying fines. I

756
00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:24,640
Speaker 4: am now going to pay my library fine with a

757
00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:28,040
Speaker 4: smile on my face because they support the library, and

758
00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:30,520
Speaker 4: it's like a rental. It's like, I like this book

759
00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:33,120
Speaker 4: so much I couldn't return it in time. So there

760
00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:34,399
Speaker 4: you go, Yes, there you go.

761
00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:37,560
Speaker 1: They're usually not too terrible in terms.

762
00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:40,120
Speaker 3: Of well, I mean there have been times that might

763
00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:41,600
Speaker 3: have gotten since like.

764
00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:43,279
Speaker 1: Nineteen eighty yeah yeah yeah, or.

765
00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:44,880
Speaker 4: You have a whole bunch of kids at home who've

766
00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:47,359
Speaker 4: hoarded books and then you lost til I've been there,

767
00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:48,280
Speaker 4: but I'm not there anymore.

768
00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:49,600
Speaker 3: Different stage of life.

769
00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:52,440
Speaker 1: So different stage okay, good good, I love it. Well.

770
00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:55,120
Speaker 1: The library it's a good midlife lady pursuer as well.

771
00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:58,439
Speaker 1: It's spending time there. I love my library as well well. Meggan,

772
00:34:58,480 --> 00:34:59,960
Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining us. Where can people

773
00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:00,920
Speaker 1: find you? So?

774
00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:03,760
Speaker 4: The best place to find me probably these days is substack.

775
00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:07,799
Speaker 4: I'm really not doing social media hardly at all right now.

776
00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:09,160
Speaker 4: I mean I'm doing a little bit more for the

777
00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:11,120
Speaker 4: book launch because you kind of have to, but you

778
00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:11,400
Speaker 4: have to.

779
00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:12,279
Speaker 3: I'm not there very much.

780
00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:14,120
Speaker 4: So if you want to find me, I have a

781
00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:18,200
Speaker 4: podcast and a substack, like a written substack. It's at

782
00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:21,879
Speaker 4: Meganfrancis dot substack dot com. And that's Megan with two

783
00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:25,360
Speaker 4: a's M E A T G A N not the first.

784
00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:28,160
Speaker 4: There is an e in there too, right right, Megan? No,

785
00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:30,879
Speaker 4: actually I do again, I too think that is one

786
00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:33,560
Speaker 4: of the many spellings of Megan, but mine's m e

787
00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:35,880
Speaker 4: ah g A nh N.

788
00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:38,239
Speaker 1: Got it, got it all right, Megan, thank you so

789
00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:39,040
Speaker 1: much for joining us.

790
00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:40,160
Speaker 3: Thanks Laura, this has been fun.

791
00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:43,520
Speaker 2: All right, we are back always fun hearing from Megan.

792
00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:45,920
Speaker 2: So our question comes from a listener who would like

793
00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:49,319
Speaker 2: to know what life skills should kids know as they

794
00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:51,680
Speaker 2: head off for college. Laura, is that something you've started

795
00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:52,439
Speaker 2: to think about?

796
00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:55,720
Speaker 1: I definitely have. There's been a couple of fascinating books

797
00:35:55,719 --> 00:35:57,719
Speaker 1: about this over the last few years, about you know,

798
00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:02,080
Speaker 1: adulting and sort of the skills somebody life skills people need,

799
00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:05,480
Speaker 1: and I think all of those are probably good to

800
00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:10,920
Speaker 1: like look through, because there's definite blind spots for anything.

801
00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:12,799
Speaker 1: I mean, just like life things you don't know, like

802
00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:16,279
Speaker 1: that you should have some cash in a hotel to

803
00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:18,280
Speaker 1: leave as a tip in the room, like good people

804
00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:19,640
Speaker 1: know that. I don't know. That's not the kind of

805
00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:22,560
Speaker 1: thing that like, you know, spring from the womb knowing,

806
00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:25,879
Speaker 1: and especially in our world where we people don't even

807
00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:27,799
Speaker 1: use that much cash anymore, it's the kind of thing

808
00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:29,960
Speaker 1: that somebody wouldn't think about. So I, you know, was

809
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:32,360
Speaker 1: sending my boys off to a competition where they were

810
00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:34,080
Speaker 1: staying in a hotel rooms. I was like thinking about that.

811
00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:36,240
Speaker 1: I like, oh, yeah, usually I should take this because

812
00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:41,799
Speaker 1: that's an expectation. But we're probably like, okay, basic laundry, right,

813
00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:44,359
Speaker 1: doing your own laundry, I think in such a way

814
00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:47,279
Speaker 1: that it will not ruin your clothes. So I guess

815
00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:50,759
Speaker 1: the basic skills involved in that. Some cooking. I mean,

816
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:54,560
Speaker 1: even if people are mostly in a cafeteria for the

817
00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:56,400
Speaker 1: first year or two, it might be helpful at least know,

818
00:36:56,680 --> 00:36:58,360
Speaker 1: like you know that down the dorm kitchen, like you

819
00:36:58,400 --> 00:36:59,920
Speaker 1: can make yourself some mac and chooes if you want.

820
00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:06,760
Speaker 1: But also basic nutrition, like that you can't just eat

821
00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:11,600
Speaker 1: cereal from the cafeteria and expect it to work. I

822
00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:14,480
Speaker 1: mean maybe maybe for some people, or you're gonna wind

823
00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:15,920
Speaker 1: up like with scurvy or something.

824
00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:19,160
Speaker 2: I think Josh talked about how like he used to

825
00:37:19,239 --> 00:37:22,520
Speaker 2: live on just like spaghetti, sauce and spaghetti, like no protein,

826
00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:25,480
Speaker 2: no nothing. I'm like, after a certain point, you just

827
00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:26,640
Speaker 2: start to not feel good.

828
00:37:26,680 --> 00:37:29,640
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, one would think I mean that you're

829
00:37:29,680 --> 00:37:32,440
Speaker 1: like digesticist. I assure people have like horrible you know,

830
00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:37,200
Speaker 1: constipation or something. Eventually you learn you learn, but hopefully

831
00:37:37,239 --> 00:37:40,240
Speaker 1: they don't always have to learn through harsh trial and error.

832
00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:44,040
Speaker 1: Let's see what else, Okay, basic planning and scheduling, I mean, Sarah,

833
00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:47,520
Speaker 1: maybe this is something we should put together, like basic

834
00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:52,359
Speaker 1: young adult how to schedule your life kind of thing.

835
00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:52,920
Speaker 1: I don't know.

836
00:37:53,880 --> 00:37:55,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, that would actually be really fun to put together,

837
00:37:55,880 --> 00:37:59,399
Speaker 2: like planning for I mean, Annabelle has talked about having

838
00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:01,239
Speaker 2: her own plan podcasts. I don't know where is she

839
00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:02,040
Speaker 2: going to come up with that.

840
00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:03,840
Speaker 1: Idea, but yeah, who knows.

841
00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:06,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, I do feel like some basics are needed,

842
00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:10,839
Speaker 2: although I think as these productivity techniques kind of enter

843
00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:13,400
Speaker 2: like the social media's like guyst maybe they've been exposed

844
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:14,960
Speaker 2: to more of them, like I feel like TikTok and

845
00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:17,320
Speaker 2: god knows what. But you're right some of them probably

846
00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:21,359
Speaker 2: have blind spots there. And you mentioned financial I could

847
00:38:21,520 --> 00:38:23,840
Speaker 2: use that big time when I headed to college.

848
00:38:24,160 --> 00:38:27,920
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, even if you plan to be paying most

849
00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:31,240
Speaker 1: of the bills for a kid in their first few years,

850
00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:36,359
Speaker 1: but there's probably some amount that you're planning on providing them,

851
00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:39,040
Speaker 1: like per month or per week or whatever it is,

852
00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:41,160
Speaker 1: and so then they need to think about how to

853
00:38:41,239 --> 00:38:44,279
Speaker 1: make that cover the things that they will have, you

854
00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:46,680
Speaker 1: know that, Like if I'm going to need to buy

855
00:38:47,080 --> 00:38:50,000
Speaker 1: both books and food out of this, maybe I shouldn't

856
00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:52,520
Speaker 1: like go out for a huge dinner like right after

857
00:38:52,560 --> 00:38:55,120
Speaker 1: getting it. If my parents are not like incredibly amenable

858
00:38:55,160 --> 00:38:56,919
Speaker 1: to the idea of like giving me more just because

859
00:38:56,960 --> 00:39:00,200
Speaker 1: I ran through it, So that would be something to

860
00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:03,520
Speaker 1: talk about. It's even just like how to pay right,

861
00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:09,120
Speaker 1: like the mechanics of paying at a restaurant, paying for

862
00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:14,480
Speaker 1: gas in a car, paying for bus fairs, for instance,

863
00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:16,719
Speaker 1: Like there's often ways to think that. You know, they're

864
00:39:16,719 --> 00:39:18,799
Speaker 1: smart kids. Obviously they'll probably figure it out, but it

865
00:39:18,880 --> 00:39:22,319
Speaker 1: might help to have a little bit of discussion on it.

866
00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:25,239
Speaker 1: And then basic health like Sarah used send kids who

867
00:39:25,239 --> 00:39:27,799
Speaker 1: often have chronic conditions off on their own, Like how

868
00:39:27,840 --> 00:39:28,880
Speaker 1: do you even approach that?

869
00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:32,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, we definitely like make a point to discuss that.

870
00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:33,680
Speaker 2: Like I feel like I have a whole like going

871
00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:36,760
Speaker 2: to college speech for my type one diabetes patients because

872
00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:39,920
Speaker 2: it's like, you need to have your supplies, this is

873
00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:42,080
Speaker 2: what alcohol will do to you, and this is how

874
00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:45,399
Speaker 2: to be safe and like all kinds of stuff, and

875
00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:48,040
Speaker 2: I think it's, yeah, it's important for teens to have

876
00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:50,800
Speaker 2: a plan of like how to access their medical record

877
00:39:50,840 --> 00:39:52,799
Speaker 2: and be connected to the like online portals so that

878
00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:55,200
Speaker 2: they could contact their doctor for something, or to make

879
00:39:55,200 --> 00:39:57,160
Speaker 2: sure they're sharing the access with their parents now that

880
00:39:57,160 --> 00:40:00,600
Speaker 2: they're not a minor, to know how they're going to

881
00:40:00,600 --> 00:40:02,759
Speaker 2: be getting their prescriptions up in college. Do you know

882
00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:05,080
Speaker 2: what to do in an emergency or like what an emergency?

883
00:40:05,160 --> 00:40:06,520
Speaker 1: Actually it is an emergency?

884
00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:09,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, Like you want to teach them about what

885
00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:12,240
Speaker 2: men and you don't want to scare them, but like, okay,

886
00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:14,520
Speaker 2: bad neck pain and high fever, like you go to.

887
00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:17,200
Speaker 1: The er, but even that you have a fever, Like

888
00:40:17,200 --> 00:40:19,040
Speaker 1: how do they know that they have a fever? Right? Like?

889
00:40:19,080 --> 00:40:21,040
Speaker 1: How many kids are walking around with a thermometer? So

890
00:40:21,080 --> 00:40:23,840
Speaker 1: you have to like say, do you have a thermometer

891
00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:26,200
Speaker 1: like a first aid kit or something with you like

892
00:40:26,239 --> 00:40:28,839
Speaker 1: that that might be something to check. You know, I'm

893
00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:30,640
Speaker 1: not sure that my kids have ever on their own

894
00:40:30,719 --> 00:40:35,360
Speaker 1: taken their temperature, so totally. Yeah, many life skills to concern.

895
00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:37,560
Speaker 1: So anyway, we're really in this with you right now.

896
00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:41,399
Speaker 1: We're figuring though, So if listeners who do have older

897
00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:43,600
Speaker 1: children who have launched children have anything to add to

898
00:40:43,640 --> 00:40:46,439
Speaker 1: this list, please send it to us, we will share

899
00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:50,560
Speaker 1: it as well. But yeah, so we've been talking with

900
00:40:50,719 --> 00:40:55,000
Speaker 1: Megan Francis on the last parenting book You'll ever read.

901
00:40:55,480 --> 00:40:57,319
Speaker 1: We will be back next week with more on making

902
00:40:57,360 --> 00:40:58,600
Speaker 1: work and life fit together.

903
00:41:00,719 --> 00:41:03,480
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening. You can find me Sarah at the

904
00:41:03,480 --> 00:41:08,080
Speaker 2: shoebox dot com or at the Underscore Shoebox on Instagram,

905
00:41:08,320 --> 00:41:08,920
Speaker 2: and you can.

906
00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:13,080
Speaker 1: Find me Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. This has

907
00:41:13,120 --> 00:41:16,400
Speaker 1: been the best of both worlds podcasts. Please join us

908
00:41:16,440 --> 00:41:19,800
Speaker 1: next time for more on making work and life work together.