1 00:00:02,160 --> 00:00:05,040 Speaker 1: This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the 2 00:00:05,120 --> 00:00:07,280 Speaker 1: Thing from iHeart. 3 00:00:06,840 --> 00:00:09,920 Speaker 2: Radio by Daffa Bone. 4 00:00:14,520 --> 00:00:18,119 Speaker 1: That is, of course, Money Money, the nineteen sixty eighth 5 00:00:18,160 --> 00:00:21,760 Speaker 1: single by my guest today, Tommy James and his band 6 00:00:21,880 --> 00:00:35,879 Speaker 1: The Chandelle's known for timeless classics like Crimson and Clover, 7 00:00:36,320 --> 00:00:40,440 Speaker 1: Hanky Panky, and Crystal Blue Persuasion. Tommy James has amassed 8 00:00:40,800 --> 00:00:45,040 Speaker 1: twenty three gold singles, nine platinum albums, and over one 9 00:00:45,120 --> 00:00:49,800 Speaker 1: hundred million records sold worldwide. His music has also appeared 10 00:00:49,800 --> 00:00:53,000 Speaker 1: in over two hundred TV shows and films, as well 11 00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:58,400 Speaker 1: as countless commercials. Legendary musicians such as Billy Idol, Joan 12 00:00:58,520 --> 00:01:03,640 Speaker 1: Jet and Prince recorded famous covers of his music. Having 13 00:01:03,920 --> 00:01:08,240 Speaker 1: started out during a more primitive time for music and technology, 14 00:01:08,600 --> 00:01:11,640 Speaker 1: I was curious about the changes Tommy James has seen 15 00:01:12,080 --> 00:01:15,440 Speaker 1: in both the way we consume music and record it. 16 00:01:16,319 --> 00:01:20,640 Speaker 3: Well, first of all, I'm so fortunate and blessed to 17 00:01:20,680 --> 00:01:24,640 Speaker 3: be able to see the music business in a historical 18 00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:28,400 Speaker 3: perspective because I lived, there's so much of it. Yeah, 19 00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:30,920 Speaker 3: I mean, we would have killed for the technology we 20 00:01:31,040 --> 00:01:34,760 Speaker 3: have today. It's quite remarkable. Of course, when I started 21 00:01:34,800 --> 00:01:38,680 Speaker 3: out there were essentially three television networks. There were a 22 00:01:38,720 --> 00:01:43,560 Speaker 3: handful of fifty thousand wat AM stations across the country, 23 00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:46,399 Speaker 3: but you could cover the whole country and everybody was 24 00:01:46,440 --> 00:01:51,880 Speaker 3: listening to the same records, which was incredible. So everything 25 00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:55,880 Speaker 3: was so different. My first record, for example, Hanky Panky 26 00:01:56,000 --> 00:01:59,640 Speaker 3: was recorded in a radio studio in my hometown of Nihles, 27 00:01:59,720 --> 00:02:03,240 Speaker 3: miss on a mono tape record. You know, what you 28 00:02:03,640 --> 00:02:06,960 Speaker 3: saw was what you got. So what I'm saying is 29 00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:11,280 Speaker 3: that mono was all you had back then. And then 30 00:02:11,440 --> 00:02:15,520 Speaker 3: finally during the early nineteen sixties, four track came into 31 00:02:15,560 --> 00:02:19,600 Speaker 3: the studios, our horizons were a little bit higher. And 32 00:02:19,639 --> 00:02:22,680 Speaker 3: then when I came to New York, a four track 33 00:02:22,840 --> 00:02:26,720 Speaker 3: was the state of the art nineteen sixty six. Right 34 00:02:26,760 --> 00:02:27,560 Speaker 3: out of high school. 35 00:02:27,560 --> 00:02:29,640 Speaker 1: By the way, when you had that hit, when you 36 00:02:29,639 --> 00:02:31,640 Speaker 1: had Hanky Pecky, you were nineteen years old. 37 00:02:32,120 --> 00:02:36,080 Speaker 3: I was. And I also had recorded Hanky Panky, the 38 00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:41,359 Speaker 3: same recording when I was sixteen back in Niles, Michigan, 39 00:02:41,400 --> 00:02:47,840 Speaker 3: my hometown, recorded it in WNIL radio studios. At any rate, 40 00:02:47,880 --> 00:02:50,920 Speaker 3: it was the same record, and so I was. It 41 00:02:51,080 --> 00:02:54,160 Speaker 3: exploded out of Pittsburgh, I came to New York, and 42 00:02:54,280 --> 00:02:58,440 Speaker 3: by sixty six we're working with four track. 43 00:02:58,639 --> 00:03:01,320 Speaker 1: What was it like for you with that? Because your path, 44 00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:04,399 Speaker 1: your arc mimics other people we've had on the show. 45 00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:06,799 Speaker 1: I mean, Paul Simon talked about him and Garfucker werehen 46 00:03:06,880 --> 00:03:09,840 Speaker 1: Tom and Jerry. They were teenagers when that song their 47 00:03:09,880 --> 00:03:12,760 Speaker 1: first hit was on the radio. Same with Frampton. Frampton 48 00:03:12,800 --> 00:03:15,920 Speaker 1: talked about getting into a limousine with Ronnie Wood and 49 00:03:15,919 --> 00:03:17,560 Speaker 1: they wanted him to come play with the Stones, and 50 00:03:17,560 --> 00:03:20,120 Speaker 1: he was like fifteen years old or something. Yeah. 51 00:03:20,160 --> 00:03:22,480 Speaker 3: Well, all I ever wanted to be was a rock 52 00:03:22,520 --> 00:03:28,760 Speaker 3: and roller. Honestly. I'm so fortunate that I made it 53 00:03:28,760 --> 00:03:31,239 Speaker 3: in rock and roll, honestly, because it's not like I 54 00:03:31,320 --> 00:03:35,040 Speaker 3: knew how to do anything else. I started my first 55 00:03:35,040 --> 00:03:38,360 Speaker 3: band when I was twelve years old in nineteen fifty nine. 56 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:42,080 Speaker 3: We played the variety show in high school or in 57 00:03:42,240 --> 00:03:45,720 Speaker 3: junior high, seventh grade, and kept the band together and 58 00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:50,160 Speaker 3: started playing out locally. My first money gig was the 59 00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:54,160 Speaker 3: American Legion Hall in Niles, Michigan, for I think it 60 00:03:54,240 --> 00:03:57,040 Speaker 3: was thirty one bucks. That was big time bag. It's 61 00:03:57,080 --> 00:04:00,960 Speaker 3: better mowing lawns. Right then, when I was fourteen years old, 62 00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:03,880 Speaker 3: I got a job in a little record shop in Niles, 63 00:04:04,200 --> 00:04:08,080 Speaker 3: and that really changed my life because I learned the 64 00:04:08,160 --> 00:04:10,560 Speaker 3: record business. I learned it was almost like the Good 65 00:04:10,600 --> 00:04:13,400 Speaker 3: Lord had me going to college through the record shop. 66 00:04:14,240 --> 00:04:18,000 Speaker 3: So then I made my first record when I was fourteen. 67 00:04:18,640 --> 00:04:22,480 Speaker 3: The one stop distributor that serviced us in the record 68 00:04:22,480 --> 00:04:28,200 Speaker 3: shop had a recording studio in Hastings, Michigan, and asked 69 00:04:28,200 --> 00:04:30,799 Speaker 3: me if I would, if I had my band together, 70 00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:33,760 Speaker 3: if i'd be interested in coming recording in his studio. 71 00:04:33,800 --> 00:04:38,880 Speaker 3: I said hell yes, so went up and recorded. My 72 00:04:38,960 --> 00:04:42,279 Speaker 3: group was called the Tornadoes at that time, and we 73 00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:46,520 Speaker 3: recorded a couple of sides. They came out a record 74 00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:50,719 Speaker 3: called Long Ponytail, which was a cover of the Fireballs record, 75 00:04:51,160 --> 00:04:53,599 Speaker 3: and we did Okay. We got in all the local 76 00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:58,760 Speaker 3: jukeboxes and we played around and developed a following. Anyway, 77 00:04:58,760 --> 00:05:01,799 Speaker 3: that's the group that later became came the Chondals. 78 00:05:01,839 --> 00:05:04,640 Speaker 1: Same personnel, yes, basically. 79 00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:09,800 Speaker 3: Then when I was sixteen, local DJ walked into the 80 00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:12,440 Speaker 3: record shop and asked if I wanted to record for 81 00:05:12,480 --> 00:05:14,839 Speaker 3: his labor. He was starting a little label called Snap, 82 00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:18,680 Speaker 3: and I said yes, And that's where we recorded Hanky 83 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:22,920 Speaker 3: Panky and so the record. You know, we had no distribution, 84 00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:26,039 Speaker 3: so the record kind of came and went, and I 85 00:05:26,120 --> 00:05:30,240 Speaker 3: graduated from high school in sixty five and took my 86 00:05:30,400 --> 00:05:34,080 Speaker 3: band on the road and we played clubs in the Midwest. 87 00:05:34,320 --> 00:05:35,720 Speaker 1: Were your parents musical? 88 00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:40,480 Speaker 3: My mother was yes. So in early sixty six, I'm 89 00:05:40,520 --> 00:05:44,480 Speaker 3: playing this dumpy little club in Janesville, Wisconsin, and right 90 00:05:44,480 --> 00:05:46,760 Speaker 3: in the middle of my two weeks, the guy goes 91 00:05:46,800 --> 00:05:49,680 Speaker 3: belly up because the irs shut him down for not 92 00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:54,000 Speaker 3: paying his taxes. So we were sent home, let go 93 00:05:54,080 --> 00:05:57,360 Speaker 3: and sent home and feeling like real losers. But as 94 00:05:57,360 --> 00:05:59,880 Speaker 3: soon as I got home, I got the call that 95 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:04,880 Speaker 3: changed my life. Seems that in Pittsburgh, Hanky Panky, this 96 00:06:05,520 --> 00:06:08,560 Speaker 3: record that I had made two and a half years earlier, 97 00:06:09,240 --> 00:06:12,760 Speaker 3: somebody picked out of a record cemetery and they got 98 00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:18,040 Speaker 3: played on the radio and it exploded in Pittsburgh. They 99 00:06:18,080 --> 00:06:23,240 Speaker 3: bootlegged it in Pittsburgh and sold eighty thousand copies in 100 00:06:23,320 --> 00:06:26,520 Speaker 3: ten days, and we were sitting at number one only 101 00:06:26,520 --> 00:06:30,279 Speaker 3: in America. So they called me up. The distributor called 102 00:06:30,279 --> 00:06:33,479 Speaker 3: me up and asked if I could come to Pittsburgh 103 00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:36,520 Speaker 3: and do They tracked me down to see if I 104 00:06:36,800 --> 00:06:38,719 Speaker 3: would come and play some shows. I had to put 105 00:06:38,880 --> 00:06:42,440 Speaker 3: a band together real quick, basically went to Pittsburgh, got 106 00:06:42,480 --> 00:06:46,040 Speaker 3: my first manager, picked up a new group, and indeed 107 00:06:46,040 --> 00:06:48,520 Speaker 3: the record was number one outside the city limits. On 108 00:06:48,640 --> 00:06:52,680 Speaker 3: nobody I go into Pittsburgh. I'm a rock star figure and. 109 00:06:52,880 --> 00:06:54,040 Speaker 1: It worked that way back then. 110 00:06:54,279 --> 00:06:59,000 Speaker 3: Yes, but Pittsburgh, Yeah, that's exactly right. And you know, 111 00:06:59,320 --> 00:07:02,680 Speaker 3: one station and could make you because it was a 112 00:07:02,680 --> 00:07:07,120 Speaker 3: major market. So I went to New York and all 113 00:07:07,160 --> 00:07:09,080 Speaker 3: the record company. I made the rounds to all the 114 00:07:09,120 --> 00:07:13,400 Speaker 3: companies and everybody wanted hanky panky, and quite literally I 115 00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:17,040 Speaker 3: was amazed. We went to CBS, we went to EPIC, 116 00:07:17,120 --> 00:07:20,720 Speaker 3: we went to Atlantic RCA. I don't know if you 117 00:07:20,720 --> 00:07:22,880 Speaker 3: remember Camasutra Records back then. 118 00:07:23,080 --> 00:07:24,560 Speaker 1: I do, actually yeah. 119 00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:28,320 Speaker 3: And the last place we took the record to was Roulette. 120 00:07:29,040 --> 00:07:32,240 Speaker 3: So I went to bed that night thinking that we 121 00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:34,080 Speaker 3: were going to be with one of the big corporate 122 00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:40,440 Speaker 3: labels and probably CBS or Atlantic, and I was feeling great. 123 00:07:40,480 --> 00:07:43,720 Speaker 3: So the next morning, about ten o'clock, I started getting calls. 124 00:07:44,240 --> 00:07:47,000 Speaker 3: We started getting calls from all the companies that had 125 00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:50,720 Speaker 3: said yes the day before, and every one of them said, Tom, 126 00:07:50,720 --> 00:07:53,440 Speaker 3: I'm sorry, we got to pass. What do you mean 127 00:07:53,440 --> 00:07:55,000 Speaker 3: you got to pass. I thought we had a deal, 128 00:07:55,480 --> 00:07:58,160 Speaker 3: and finally Jerry Wexler up at Atlantic told me the 129 00:07:58,200 --> 00:08:02,440 Speaker 3: truth that Mars Leaves, the head of Roulette Records, had 130 00:08:02,480 --> 00:08:06,640 Speaker 3: called up all the other labels and scared him to death, 131 00:08:07,320 --> 00:08:11,440 Speaker 3: basically told that under duress, and that's how he tours it. 132 00:08:11,800 --> 00:08:14,760 Speaker 3: This is my freaking record back off. 133 00:08:15,760 --> 00:08:17,080 Speaker 1: So you have a kind of a whiff of that. 134 00:08:17,200 --> 00:08:18,720 Speaker 1: Somebody steps in at the intervene. 135 00:08:19,160 --> 00:08:21,960 Speaker 3: It was the first offer I couldn't refuse, you know, 136 00:08:22,480 --> 00:08:25,800 Speaker 3: so at any rate, well that's how Mars talked too. 137 00:08:25,840 --> 00:08:27,200 Speaker 3: I mean, I guess they go to school. 138 00:08:27,240 --> 00:08:31,320 Speaker 1: Did talk like they will go to the same private school? Yeah? 139 00:08:31,440 --> 00:08:35,920 Speaker 3: Right, So at any rate, Roulette literally took the record 140 00:08:36,120 --> 00:08:39,920 Speaker 3: to number one. Now the amazing thing. I went up 141 00:08:39,920 --> 00:08:44,120 Speaker 3: that afternoon to meet Maurice Levy and Roulette Records, and 142 00:08:44,320 --> 00:08:47,880 Speaker 3: I mean he was right out of the movies. I'm 143 00:08:47,880 --> 00:08:53,760 Speaker 3: not kidding. Morris was a big guy. Physically shaking hands 144 00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:56,160 Speaker 3: with him was like grabbing hold of a catcher's mid. Yeah, 145 00:08:57,280 --> 00:09:01,240 Speaker 3: things were happening. I remember signing my contract with Morris 146 00:09:01,760 --> 00:09:04,679 Speaker 3: and as I'm signing, that's where we got the title 147 00:09:04,679 --> 00:09:06,839 Speaker 3: of the book. He happened to say, you know, I 148 00:09:06,920 --> 00:09:08,880 Speaker 3: hope you're ready, kid, because you're about to go in 149 00:09:08,920 --> 00:09:12,680 Speaker 3: one hell of a ride. And I said, yeah, I'm ready, 150 00:09:13,040 --> 00:09:16,480 Speaker 3: let's do it. So at any rate, the sitting in 151 00:09:16,520 --> 00:09:20,840 Speaker 3: the office was George Goldner, one of his partners, who 152 00:09:20,920 --> 00:09:23,839 Speaker 3: was a big producer, produced all the due ap stuff 153 00:09:23,880 --> 00:09:27,280 Speaker 3: in the fifties, had the End Records Gone Records, Murray 154 00:09:27,320 --> 00:09:30,640 Speaker 3: the Kay, the disc jockey, remember him, of course, and 155 00:09:31,320 --> 00:09:35,040 Speaker 3: Red Schwartz who was the head of promotion, and you 156 00:09:35,080 --> 00:09:38,720 Speaker 3: know the movers and shakers up at Roulette. So they 157 00:09:38,720 --> 00:09:42,319 Speaker 3: took the record Hanky Panky and took it to number 158 00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:44,760 Speaker 3: one all over the world. And I, you know, I 159 00:09:46,480 --> 00:09:49,880 Speaker 3: we had this amazing success on Roulette, and I'm sure 160 00:09:49,880 --> 00:09:53,040 Speaker 3: we wouldn't have had anywhere else because at Roulette they 161 00:09:53,040 --> 00:09:57,560 Speaker 3: actually needed us. At Columbia or Atlantic, the competition would 162 00:09:57,559 --> 00:10:01,200 Speaker 3: have been horrific. We would have and just one of many, 163 00:10:01,240 --> 00:10:03,680 Speaker 3: and with a fluky record like Hankey Pankey, we would 164 00:10:03,679 --> 00:10:05,840 Speaker 3: have been lucky to have been a one hit wonder. 165 00:10:06,880 --> 00:10:11,640 Speaker 3: And at Roulette actually needed us. So we were given 166 00:10:11,679 --> 00:10:13,720 Speaker 3: the keys to the candy store. I was allowed to 167 00:10:13,760 --> 00:10:18,360 Speaker 3: put my own staff together, my own producer, production staff, yes, 168 00:10:19,040 --> 00:10:23,760 Speaker 3: and arranger Jimmy Wisner. We were able to learn our 169 00:10:23,840 --> 00:10:28,120 Speaker 3: craft number one and to be, you know, in charge 170 00:10:28,160 --> 00:10:29,000 Speaker 3: of our own career. 171 00:10:29,160 --> 00:10:31,080 Speaker 1: Now let me ask you this in terms of these 172 00:10:31,120 --> 00:10:35,080 Speaker 1: songs of yours and your vocal tracks are among the 173 00:10:35,080 --> 00:10:37,640 Speaker 1: most famous songs you know in rock and roll. 174 00:10:37,679 --> 00:10:38,640 Speaker 3: Well, thank you, thanks, no. 175 00:10:38,679 --> 00:10:40,640 Speaker 1: No, no, no. You are an amazingly talented guy. The 176 00:10:40,679 --> 00:10:43,280 Speaker 1: band was great. What was your origin as a singer? 177 00:10:43,280 --> 00:10:44,439 Speaker 1: When did you know you could sing? 178 00:10:44,920 --> 00:10:48,000 Speaker 3: I started singing, it seems like right out of the cradle. 179 00:10:48,160 --> 00:10:51,080 Speaker 3: As soon as I went to kindergarten. I was being 180 00:10:51,400 --> 00:10:55,520 Speaker 3: chosen to do musical things by the teachers, and I 181 00:10:55,640 --> 00:10:59,400 Speaker 3: was in choir also in you know, seventh grade on up, 182 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:03,719 Speaker 3: and of course I had the band, so I had 183 00:11:03,760 --> 00:11:08,640 Speaker 3: all kinds of affirmations that I could sing. I didn't 184 00:11:08,679 --> 00:11:13,720 Speaker 3: sing with any particular style or educated in singing or 185 00:11:13,760 --> 00:11:14,959 Speaker 3: singing lessons or anything. 186 00:11:14,920 --> 00:11:15,480 Speaker 1: You didn't train. 187 00:11:15,920 --> 00:11:19,480 Speaker 3: No, My whole thing was to company my singing with 188 00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:23,240 Speaker 3: my guitar. I never became a lead guitar player either, 189 00:11:23,280 --> 00:11:26,319 Speaker 3: because I pre tuned my guitar to an open E, 190 00:11:26,600 --> 00:11:31,240 Speaker 3: and so I taught myself to play guitar. But in 191 00:11:31,360 --> 00:11:34,400 Speaker 3: order to accompany my vocals, never to really be a 192 00:11:34,440 --> 00:11:38,600 Speaker 3: guitar player. So the band was going all through junior 193 00:11:38,679 --> 00:11:41,960 Speaker 3: high in high school, and it's something that just kind 194 00:11:41,960 --> 00:11:45,840 Speaker 3: of came at me normally. I felt like my ego 195 00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:48,080 Speaker 3: wasn't attached to it. It's what I'm trying to say, 196 00:11:48,280 --> 00:11:51,800 Speaker 3: I was. It was just something I kind of naturally did. 197 00:11:52,200 --> 00:11:54,760 Speaker 1: Now, when did songwriting come into your life? The songs 198 00:11:54,760 --> 00:11:55,400 Speaker 1: you would record? 199 00:11:56,320 --> 00:11:56,520 Speaker 2: Right? 200 00:11:57,000 --> 00:11:59,559 Speaker 3: I would have to say. Once I got to New York, 201 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:03,480 Speaker 3: I became friendly with Richie Cordell and Bo Gentry, who 202 00:12:03,480 --> 00:12:08,040 Speaker 3: became my producers. They were great songwriters. It seemed like 203 00:12:08,080 --> 00:12:10,880 Speaker 3: the natural next step. I sat with them and we 204 00:12:10,920 --> 00:12:14,640 Speaker 3: wrote rock and roll and ballads and all kinds of 205 00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:18,720 Speaker 3: music together, and so gradually I became a songwriter. 206 00:12:19,200 --> 00:12:20,120 Speaker 1: Did you enjoy it? 207 00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:22,160 Speaker 3: I loved it? Oh yeah. 208 00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:25,320 Speaker 1: But apparently songwriting and the pursuit of writing songs for 209 00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:28,720 Speaker 1: you to record led to shall we say a slight 210 00:12:28,800 --> 00:12:30,959 Speaker 1: health scare? What happened to you on stage? 211 00:12:31,280 --> 00:12:35,520 Speaker 3: Oh? In Alabama? Well, this was some time later, this 212 00:12:35,640 --> 00:12:39,760 Speaker 3: is sixty nine. I actually collapsed on stage. Why because 213 00:12:39,760 --> 00:12:42,080 Speaker 3: I'd been up for three days because I had taken 214 00:12:42,200 --> 00:12:48,000 Speaker 3: uppers right amphetamines to write songs. Yes, to write songs 215 00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:50,720 Speaker 3: and be in the studio and to perform. You know, 216 00:12:51,480 --> 00:12:55,400 Speaker 3: they became at one time the all purpose drug. 217 00:12:55,480 --> 00:12:55,640 Speaker 2: You know. 218 00:12:55,840 --> 00:12:59,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, oh, I know, yeah. I mean, I've taken my 219 00:12:59,120 --> 00:13:00,920 Speaker 1: vitamin see everything then. 220 00:13:02,240 --> 00:13:05,920 Speaker 3: But back then that's I did my share of sixties crap. 221 00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:09,120 Speaker 1: But you took songwriting to another level. Here your dedication correct. 222 00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:12,280 Speaker 3: Well, I was able to stay up longer, let's put it. 223 00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:15,560 Speaker 1: That way, in pursuit of that one missing lyric, that 224 00:13:15,640 --> 00:13:16,960 Speaker 1: one word, that one rhyme. 225 00:13:17,080 --> 00:13:21,280 Speaker 3: Well, that's true. And I but I really loved songwriting, 226 00:13:21,320 --> 00:13:24,360 Speaker 3: and I was very fortunate to have all these talented 227 00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:27,120 Speaker 3: people around me, and then I brought it. My group 228 00:13:27,240 --> 00:13:30,600 Speaker 3: was talented too. They all were writing, and we all 229 00:13:30,679 --> 00:13:33,920 Speaker 3: ended up writing with each other and for each other. 230 00:13:34,080 --> 00:13:38,560 Speaker 3: And Bow and Richie were terribly talented and taught me 231 00:13:38,760 --> 00:13:41,600 Speaker 3: New York and taught me the business. They were my 232 00:13:41,720 --> 00:13:42,720 Speaker 3: first producers. 233 00:13:43,040 --> 00:13:44,400 Speaker 1: And the guys that are in the band, are they 234 00:13:44,400 --> 00:13:46,479 Speaker 1: all still alive? Everybody in the original. 235 00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:50,000 Speaker 3: Band, No, they're not. The drummer Pete Lucia has died 236 00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:53,920 Speaker 3: some time ago, but we all stay in touch. No 237 00:13:54,040 --> 00:13:58,000 Speaker 3: reunion tour, well, no, I have a new group of Schondells, 238 00:13:58,360 --> 00:14:03,679 Speaker 3: but it ended in nineteen seventy and I took on 239 00:14:03,720 --> 00:14:06,160 Speaker 3: a new group. So they've been with me all this time, 240 00:14:06,240 --> 00:14:06,800 Speaker 3: the new group. 241 00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:08,680 Speaker 1: Can you tour, yes, oh yeah. 242 00:14:08,720 --> 00:14:13,520 Speaker 3: Every year we're out all over North America. And I 243 00:14:13,640 --> 00:14:18,840 Speaker 3: don't like to go overseas. It's just a fetish of mine. 244 00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:20,360 Speaker 3: I did back in the eighties. 245 00:14:20,400 --> 00:14:22,200 Speaker 1: But you don't like touring overseas. You don't like going 246 00:14:22,240 --> 00:14:23,080 Speaker 1: overseas period. 247 00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:26,760 Speaker 3: I don't like touring overseas, you don't. Yeah, I just 248 00:14:27,080 --> 00:14:30,800 Speaker 3: have more control here in the US and North America. 249 00:14:31,600 --> 00:14:34,000 Speaker 3: So I also have the radio show that I'm doing, 250 00:14:34,040 --> 00:14:34,920 Speaker 3: so I can't get. 251 00:14:34,760 --> 00:14:36,440 Speaker 1: Too far from you when they tell us about that 252 00:14:36,480 --> 00:14:37,360 Speaker 1: What are you doing well? 253 00:14:37,440 --> 00:14:40,960 Speaker 3: I have a show on Serious ExM every Sunday. It's 254 00:14:40,960 --> 00:14:44,880 Speaker 3: called Getting Together with Tommy James. It's three hours from 255 00:14:44,920 --> 00:14:46,120 Speaker 3: five to eight pm. 256 00:14:47,120 --> 00:14:49,080 Speaker 1: What are you playing Well? 257 00:14:49,320 --> 00:14:51,120 Speaker 3: You know, when they came to me to do this, 258 00:14:51,840 --> 00:14:56,040 Speaker 3: I was, frankly a little scared, a little worried because 259 00:14:56,120 --> 00:14:59,240 Speaker 3: as much as I've been on the radio, I never 260 00:14:59,400 --> 00:15:03,400 Speaker 3: really was on that side of the microphone. Before you know, 261 00:15:03,440 --> 00:15:07,280 Speaker 3: it's filling up three hours every week, I know, I know, 262 00:15:07,720 --> 00:15:10,480 Speaker 3: and that's a lot of time. What I did was 263 00:15:10,520 --> 00:15:14,080 Speaker 3: I just they wanted me to play whatever I wanted. 264 00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:18,160 Speaker 3: That's a scary thing, Tom, do whatever you want music? Yes, 265 00:15:19,040 --> 00:15:20,720 Speaker 3: how mung have been doing that now this is the 266 00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:24,280 Speaker 3: eighth year. God they but they said play anything you want. 267 00:15:24,280 --> 00:15:26,400 Speaker 3: We want you to play your own music too. I said, 268 00:15:26,440 --> 00:15:28,920 Speaker 3: can I go to jail for that? I said, no, 269 00:15:29,160 --> 00:15:32,200 Speaker 3: we're satellite. They got to catch us first. So at 270 00:15:32,240 --> 00:15:35,160 Speaker 3: any rate, the bottom line was that I went on 271 00:15:35,240 --> 00:15:38,200 Speaker 3: and the philosophy was kind of to play. There was 272 00:15:38,280 --> 00:15:41,880 Speaker 3: so much music in the sixties that was so great 273 00:15:42,120 --> 00:15:44,440 Speaker 3: that never got played, never made it to the radio 274 00:15:44,480 --> 00:15:48,560 Speaker 3: because there was no room. There were over three thousand 275 00:15:48,640 --> 00:15:51,880 Speaker 3: records released in the continent of the United States. Every 276 00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:55,800 Speaker 3: week in the nineteen sixties, five records made the national charts. 277 00:15:56,440 --> 00:15:58,920 Speaker 3: And that's the kind of competition there was. 278 00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:01,320 Speaker 1: Now to go back for. And in terms of the 279 00:16:01,360 --> 00:16:04,040 Speaker 1: origin story, when you were a kid and you grew 280 00:16:04,120 --> 00:16:06,600 Speaker 1: up in Michigan, correct, right, when you're a kid, what 281 00:16:06,680 --> 00:16:08,960 Speaker 1: are you listening to? What's what's is it all British 282 00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:10,360 Speaker 1: invasion at that point? What are you listening to? 283 00:16:10,440 --> 00:16:12,960 Speaker 3: Well, so a lot of it. But the first generation 284 00:16:13,160 --> 00:16:16,320 Speaker 3: rock and rollers were my heroes growing up in the fifties. 285 00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:20,840 Speaker 3: You know, Buddy Holly, Elvis, of course, Jerry l Lewis, 286 00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:25,880 Speaker 3: gene Vincent, Eddie Cochran, Roy Orbison, Orbison, he came along 287 00:16:25,920 --> 00:16:29,440 Speaker 3: a little later, but the fifties guys were were my 288 00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:33,080 Speaker 3: heroes and that's all I ever wanted to be. And 289 00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:36,240 Speaker 3: then in the sixties, of course, the British invasion, and 290 00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:38,760 Speaker 3: I was playing all that time, so I was. I 291 00:16:38,880 --> 00:16:43,840 Speaker 3: was performing all these songs and working at the record 292 00:16:43,880 --> 00:16:46,440 Speaker 3: shops selling records. So I got a hell of an education, 293 00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:49,920 Speaker 3: well rounded, I would say. I've been going through Roulette. 294 00:16:50,080 --> 00:16:53,640 Speaker 3: Seemed like the other half of my education, learning the 295 00:16:53,720 --> 00:16:57,040 Speaker 3: record business. You know, I learned at retail, at the store, 296 00:16:57,480 --> 00:17:01,440 Speaker 3: but then learning the record product auction and all of 297 00:17:01,560 --> 00:17:06,040 Speaker 3: the finer points of record manufacturing and how records are 298 00:17:06,080 --> 00:17:08,960 Speaker 3: made and all that stuff all happened at Roulette, so 299 00:17:09,080 --> 00:17:12,760 Speaker 3: I was. I'm still learning things today now. 300 00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:16,760 Speaker 1: Speaking of the Beatles, you were approached by a Beatle correct. 301 00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:22,040 Speaker 3: Well, George Harrison was producing a group called Grapefruit back 302 00:17:22,040 --> 00:17:25,600 Speaker 3: in sixty eight and Mony Money had gone number one 303 00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:28,560 Speaker 3: in England. It was actually bigger there, and it was 304 00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:32,240 Speaker 3: here at stayed number one over there for oh weeks 305 00:17:32,280 --> 00:17:39,000 Speaker 3: and weeks, and George and his group Grapefruit started writing 306 00:17:39,119 --> 00:17:42,840 Speaker 3: songs for me. I couldn't believe it. They all kind 307 00:17:42,840 --> 00:17:45,600 Speaker 3: of had a mony mony flavor to them. They were 308 00:17:45,640 --> 00:17:48,400 Speaker 3: really great, and I was so honored. He brought him 309 00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:53,760 Speaker 3: over and personally delivered them to my management office. I 310 00:17:53,840 --> 00:17:56,600 Speaker 3: was out on the road, and I was blown away. 311 00:17:56,680 --> 00:17:59,960 Speaker 3: I couldn't believe how honored I had been. 312 00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:01,879 Speaker 1: But then, what did you do? Well? 313 00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:05,040 Speaker 3: The problem was, by the time we got them, we 314 00:18:05,040 --> 00:18:09,840 Speaker 3: were were just releasing Crimson and Clover and our whole 315 00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:14,120 Speaker 3: style had changed. I had them and I never actually 316 00:18:14,200 --> 00:18:18,199 Speaker 3: recorded them, And after he died, I was just so 317 00:18:19,040 --> 00:18:23,600 Speaker 3: diswrought that I hadn't, you know, recorded these songs. I 318 00:18:23,680 --> 00:18:27,800 Speaker 3: never really properly thanked him. I did through the channels, 319 00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:30,520 Speaker 3: but I never called him up. I didn't really know 320 00:18:30,600 --> 00:18:33,560 Speaker 3: how to do that. But I was very very on 321 00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:36,560 Speaker 3: and I said so on so many TV shows. I 322 00:18:36,600 --> 00:18:40,160 Speaker 3: know he heard my thanks, but I just was so 323 00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:43,320 Speaker 3: grateful that he did that. And later I had the 324 00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:48,479 Speaker 3: opportunity to meet John, and John and I were both 325 00:18:48,920 --> 00:18:52,919 Speaker 3: getting a BMI Award in nineteen seventy one. He was 326 00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:55,639 Speaker 3: getting it for imagine, I was getting it for Dragon 327 00:18:55,760 --> 00:19:01,480 Speaker 3: lun and we sat back to back, you know, my dinners, 328 00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:04,800 Speaker 3: and he had Yoko with him, and we had a 329 00:19:04,800 --> 00:19:08,080 Speaker 3: great conversation and you know, patted each other on the 330 00:19:08,119 --> 00:19:10,919 Speaker 3: back and said, thank you. What big fan I was 331 00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:13,960 Speaker 3: of John's and how I listened to him. So we 332 00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:17,040 Speaker 3: got we had a chance to really talk, and it 333 00:19:17,080 --> 00:19:21,399 Speaker 3: was a wonderful conversation. And then then I met Paul 334 00:19:21,560 --> 00:19:25,119 Speaker 3: and Ringo at the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame 335 00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:28,040 Speaker 3: in twenty fifteen, I had Jones. Jed asked me if 336 00:19:28,080 --> 00:19:31,720 Speaker 3: I would accompany her and come on and do Crimson 337 00:19:31,720 --> 00:19:32,600 Speaker 3: and Clover with her. 338 00:19:32,680 --> 00:19:33,120 Speaker 1: Right she did. 339 00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:37,359 Speaker 3: She was being inducted and one of her big hits 340 00:19:37,480 --> 00:19:42,359 Speaker 3: was Crimson and Clover. It so happened that Paul was 341 00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:47,879 Speaker 3: introducing Ringo, who was being inducted that night, and so 342 00:19:47,960 --> 00:19:51,480 Speaker 3: I got a chance to meet Paul and Ringo that night. 343 00:19:51,560 --> 00:19:56,359 Speaker 3: So I had good contact with the Fab four. My 344 00:19:56,560 --> 00:20:01,280 Speaker 3: manager Carol Ross, who is now my wife. She was 345 00:20:01,320 --> 00:20:04,800 Speaker 3: one of the biggest public relations directors in New York 346 00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:09,240 Speaker 3: and she represented Paul some time ago. So they were friends. 347 00:20:09,359 --> 00:20:12,240 Speaker 3: And there was going to be a big party at 348 00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:17,960 Speaker 3: jone Jets dressing room after the show, and so Paul 349 00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:20,600 Speaker 3: was going to had come over. We took some pictures 350 00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:24,280 Speaker 3: together and and he said, well, I had the I 351 00:20:24,320 --> 00:20:26,479 Speaker 3: had the limo there that night and we were just 352 00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:29,119 Speaker 3: going to go right from the hall to the to 353 00:20:29,160 --> 00:20:31,480 Speaker 3: the club. And he said, well, I'll just I'll just 354 00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:35,520 Speaker 3: go with you. And I said, that's great, that's wonderful. 355 00:20:36,119 --> 00:20:40,159 Speaker 3: Have Paul McCartney riding in my car. I thought that 356 00:20:40,320 --> 00:20:44,159 Speaker 3: was just great. And Carol comes over and says, oh, Paul, 357 00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:50,240 Speaker 3: there's no room. I said, what, honey, you walk and 358 00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:51,680 Speaker 3: we can put you on the hood. 359 00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:51,960 Speaker 1: Yeah. 360 00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:56,040 Speaker 3: The luggage wreck and so Paul said, well there's no problem, 361 00:20:56,080 --> 00:20:58,560 Speaker 3: I'll just go behind. So he goes in an s 362 00:20:58,760 --> 00:21:02,760 Speaker 3: u V following dilemma. I was so humiliated. 363 00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:04,200 Speaker 1: But you eventually married her. 364 00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:07,320 Speaker 3: I did marry, I said, anybody with those kind of pellets, 365 00:21:07,560 --> 00:21:08,840 Speaker 3: I'm getting involved. 366 00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:15,880 Speaker 1: In songwriter and producer Tommy James. If you enjoy conversations 367 00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:20,600 Speaker 1: with legendary singer songwriters, check out my episode with Paul Williams. 368 00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:25,359 Speaker 4: Most pop songwriters writing for a film or a stage play. 369 00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:27,360 Speaker 4: When I have a hit, of course, we all want 370 00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:29,920 Speaker 4: to have a hit, but because I come from an 371 00:21:29,960 --> 00:21:32,600 Speaker 4: acting background. I want to advance the story and I 372 00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:35,960 Speaker 4: want to expose something of the inner life of the 373 00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:38,280 Speaker 4: character I'm writing for. That was the whole point with 374 00:21:38,359 --> 00:21:41,080 Speaker 4: Kerman is that he has a spiritual wife. You know, 375 00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:42,880 Speaker 4: I was never a kid that was in a gang 376 00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:45,600 Speaker 4: that had a treehouse. When I walked on the set 377 00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:48,000 Speaker 4: of The Muppet Show, I was with a gang that 378 00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:48,720 Speaker 4: had a treehouse. 379 00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:53,359 Speaker 1: To hear more of my conversation with Paul Williams, go 380 00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:57,520 Speaker 1: to Here's the Thing dot Org. After the break, Tommy 381 00:21:57,640 --> 00:22:01,000 Speaker 1: James talks about the process of cloning recordings of his 382 00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:08,240 Speaker 1: own music to license for film and television. I'm Alec 383 00:22:08,280 --> 00:22:34,920 Speaker 1: Baldwin and this is Here's the Thing You play. That's 384 00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:38,920 Speaker 1: Tommy James and the Chandell's performing I Think We're Alone Now, 385 00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:42,200 Speaker 1: from their nineteen sixty six album of the same name. 386 00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:52,000 Speaker 1: Tommy James is known for world famous hits like Hanky Panky, 387 00:22:52,119 --> 00:22:55,800 Speaker 1: Sweet Cherry Wine, Dragon the Line, and Three Times in Love, 388 00:22:56,280 --> 00:22:59,720 Speaker 1: just to name a few. With so many famous chart 389 00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:02,920 Speaker 1: top I was curious if Tommy had a favorite song 390 00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:06,479 Speaker 1: he's written. It wasn't one of the hits. 391 00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:12,520 Speaker 3: I always loved, loved one it's an album cut. It 392 00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:15,920 Speaker 3: was a song that could very easily have been a single. 393 00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:20,080 Speaker 3: It was that quality, and we just never we didn't 394 00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:21,879 Speaker 3: have the time to do it. We were just so 395 00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:24,800 Speaker 3: involved in other things time to do what I didn't 396 00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:29,560 Speaker 3: take the time to turn it into a hit. It's 397 00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:31,840 Speaker 3: very close the way it is, but it's more like 398 00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:35,639 Speaker 3: a demo. But I just always was in love with 399 00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:39,080 Speaker 3: that tune, and I wish we had taken the time 400 00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:42,840 Speaker 3: to really turn it into the record. It could have 401 00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:45,360 Speaker 3: been I may do it again. There's another one called 402 00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:51,199 Speaker 3: I'm Alive that Johnny Thunder recorded, Tom Jones recorded, was 403 00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:54,840 Speaker 3: never a single by us, but we were going to 404 00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:57,479 Speaker 3: do it. In the show. We do a new version 405 00:23:57,520 --> 00:24:01,480 Speaker 3: of I Think We're Alone now, which is a slow 406 00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:06,760 Speaker 3: acoustic terribly different. We're doing a movie of the book. 407 00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:11,119 Speaker 3: It's going to be the last song you hear is 408 00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:13,080 Speaker 3: there's going to be this new version of I Think 409 00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:15,800 Speaker 3: We're Alone. And we released it in twenty nineteen and 410 00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:19,760 Speaker 3: it went top twenty fours Adult Contemporary, and so it 411 00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:21,119 Speaker 3: was great to be back on the Check it. 412 00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:22,919 Speaker 1: Out now you can know you think We're that That 413 00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:23,560 Speaker 1: covers out now. 414 00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:27,200 Speaker 3: Yes, it's on YouTube. It's on well, you name Amazon, 415 00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:29,120 Speaker 3: you get the album, the whole album. 416 00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:32,000 Speaker 1: Now, let me ask you this. So you're out there 417 00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:35,639 Speaker 1: now and it's all touring. Nobody's they're kind of buying music. 418 00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:40,840 Speaker 1: Maybe I spent hours hunting down albums on Apple Music 419 00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:44,000 Speaker 1: that I can buy. I want to pay the artist 420 00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:47,280 Speaker 1: the royalty. I got your music in my in my library. 421 00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:49,720 Speaker 1: I pay for it and sometimes you can't find it. 422 00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:52,959 Speaker 1: Sometimes you can't get it, but download what you're doing. Okay. 423 00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:55,520 Speaker 3: Well, we've been very lucky because we have our own 424 00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:59,119 Speaker 3: label and what's it called aurra A U r A. 425 00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:04,840 Speaker 3: We're internationally distributed. We've released several newer albums on or 426 00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:08,520 Speaker 3: in the past ten years, twelve years, and the last 427 00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:11,560 Speaker 3: one was called Alive and it's where the new I 428 00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:15,119 Speaker 3: Think We're Alone Now was and we went Top twenty 429 00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:18,800 Speaker 3: Adult Contemporary with it also. So I'm really happy that 430 00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:22,639 Speaker 3: we can release music when we want to. Most of 431 00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:25,080 Speaker 3: them are compilations, but every now and then we'll do 432 00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:26,200 Speaker 3: a new studio album. 433 00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:28,400 Speaker 1: Now, the men in the band you co wrote with, 434 00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:30,600 Speaker 1: they have writing credits and a lot of this music 435 00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:35,479 Speaker 1: as well. Yes, so you have a songwriting company, Yes, right, 436 00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:38,080 Speaker 1: published that man a publishing company that manages all of that, 437 00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:39,480 Speaker 1: but you're still touring. 438 00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:44,440 Speaker 3: Yes, and Sony represents our old publishing with Morris Levy. 439 00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:48,760 Speaker 3: We were very lucky because from Morris Levy, Warners owns 440 00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:53,520 Speaker 3: Our Masters now from Roulette, and Sony owns the publishing. 441 00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:59,320 Speaker 3: Sony has delivered ninety three movies, major movies for us 442 00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:02,040 Speaker 3: since we've in with them. They've been wonderful to put 443 00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:06,040 Speaker 3: your music in the movie. Yes, ninety three movies, ninety 444 00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:06,680 Speaker 3: three movie and. 445 00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:08,840 Speaker 1: The number one the choice is Crystal Blue. 446 00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:11,919 Speaker 3: Welcome Money, all of them, you know, all the all 447 00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:12,920 Speaker 3: the big hits. 448 00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:14,560 Speaker 1: Between Cherry Wine, I love. 449 00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:19,440 Speaker 3: Yes, Yes, and so we're very lucky to be affiliated 450 00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:22,120 Speaker 3: with Sony and with Warners. Warner's done a good job too. 451 00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:27,640 Speaker 3: You know. The Warners is owned by a consortium of Ukrainians, 452 00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:33,560 Speaker 3: not you know, I'm trying to think of any American 453 00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:38,480 Speaker 3: owned companies anymore. Of course, Sony's the Japanese. But it's 454 00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:41,760 Speaker 3: it's really interesting. The big fish have eaten the smaller ones, 455 00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:45,840 Speaker 3: and there's like three companies now, you know, there's Universal, 456 00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:49,320 Speaker 3: there's Warners, the Warner Music Group and Sony Music Group. 457 00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:55,080 Speaker 3: So the industry has really. Well, it's huge and it's little, 458 00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:56,200 Speaker 3: you know what I'm saying. 459 00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:59,560 Speaker 1: At the same business in general, yes, small town. Do 460 00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:01,480 Speaker 1: you have a approval over who gets it? Or they 461 00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:02,840 Speaker 1: do warners or some. 462 00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:06,320 Speaker 3: Well, what will happen is that the producers of a 463 00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:09,600 Speaker 3: film will call to license certain pieces. 464 00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:10,480 Speaker 1: Do you have approval? 465 00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:13,640 Speaker 3: Well, they don't have to, but they honor me with 466 00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:17,840 Speaker 3: giving me that that courtesy. We also have re records. 467 00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:21,920 Speaker 3: I have done clone re records of ten of the hits, 468 00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:23,600 Speaker 3: ten of the most used hits. 469 00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:26,240 Speaker 1: What's the purpose that? What's a clone rerecord? What is that? 470 00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:29,520 Speaker 3: It is an exactly duplicate as close as we can 471 00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:32,639 Speaker 3: literally as close as we can possibly get it to 472 00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:36,640 Speaker 3: the original, to license a lot of them. If they 473 00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:40,560 Speaker 3: can't pay a large fee, will pay a smaller fee 474 00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:45,879 Speaker 3: for the clone, and we own that. So Sony pitches both. 475 00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:48,200 Speaker 3: Most people can't tell the difference. 476 00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:52,280 Speaker 1: Now, when you're touring, what's different? I mean, obviously I'm older, 477 00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:55,120 Speaker 1: you're older. When you're out there, is it as much fun? 478 00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:58,080 Speaker 1: Other rock stars who I won't name, I'd go to 479 00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:00,000 Speaker 1: the concert. They say, oh no, no, no, the meal with them, 480 00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:02,199 Speaker 1: the drink with them, the party with them is before 481 00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:04,480 Speaker 1: the show. Now it's not after the show. After the show, 482 00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:05,400 Speaker 1: they go home and get in bed. 483 00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:09,520 Speaker 3: Well, the truth is that not a hell of a 484 00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:12,879 Speaker 3: lot has changed since the Earl. It's the one live 485 00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:16,680 Speaker 3: entertainment has never been bigger number one dollars and cents 486 00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:22,960 Speaker 3: wise and every other way. And it's also not changed much. It's, 487 00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:28,000 Speaker 3: you know, still that relationship between the artist and the audience. 488 00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:32,280 Speaker 3: And I must say that I love our fans, and 489 00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:37,400 Speaker 3: I do mean that sincerely, because these people have put 490 00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:39,760 Speaker 3: food on my table and a roof over my head 491 00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:44,600 Speaker 3: for almost sixty years and never faltered once, and they 492 00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:48,360 Speaker 3: stick with me whatever project we're involved in. So I'm 493 00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:51,400 Speaker 3: very grateful to our fans. That's why I don't talk 494 00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:56,360 Speaker 3: politics at the concerts. Why would you intentionally offend half 495 00:28:56,360 --> 00:28:58,480 Speaker 3: your audience? Why would you do that? 496 00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:00,920 Speaker 1: Well, I've learned my lesson about that too. 497 00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:04,640 Speaker 3: Why would you upset people? It's a business that depends 498 00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:07,120 Speaker 3: totally on the goodwill it the public. 499 00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:08,479 Speaker 1: Why would you do that? 500 00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:11,200 Speaker 3: And I've never understood why an artist would do that 501 00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:14,040 Speaker 3: unless they just can't stand not to. I don't know. 502 00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:21,720 Speaker 1: Musician and songwriter Tommy James, if you're enjoying this conversation, 503 00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:24,560 Speaker 1: tell a friend and be sure to follow Here's the 504 00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:29,160 Speaker 1: Thing on the iHeartRadio app, Spotify or wherever you get 505 00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:33,480 Speaker 1: your podcasts. When we come back, Tommy James talks about 506 00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:37,239 Speaker 1: what the song Crystal Blue Persuasion is really about and 507 00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:44,840 Speaker 1: the inspiration behind the title. I'm Alec Baldwin and this 508 00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:45,800 Speaker 1: is here's the thing. 509 00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:56,360 Speaker 2: Are you gonna live Hard? Wayne? Take Angie Bad Day by. 510 00:29:57,240 --> 00:30:02,520 Speaker 1: Rain And that's Tommy James and the Sean Dell's performing 511 00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:06,560 Speaker 1: dragging the line from their nineteen seventy one album Christian 512 00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:28,160 Speaker 1: of the World. Earlier, Tommy James detailed his encounter with 513 00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:31,640 Speaker 1: George Harrison, who had presented Tommy and his band with 514 00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:36,440 Speaker 1: songs that Harrison hoped they would record, like the Harrison Proposal. 515 00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:39,719 Speaker 1: I was curious if Tommy James had ever written music 516 00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:40,840 Speaker 1: for anyone else. 517 00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:45,520 Speaker 3: I did, and I've produced several acts. Also, I wrote 518 00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:49,760 Speaker 3: and produced Alive and Kickens Tighter Tighter back in nineteen 519 00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:55,600 Speaker 3: seventy Johnny Lombardo for Paramount Patty Austin several acts. And 520 00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:59,080 Speaker 3: I'm a fan first and foremost. 521 00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:00,880 Speaker 1: So that's why i do this show. 522 00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:05,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, right, And there are so many acts that 523 00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:09,520 Speaker 3: I dearly love that I had the privilege of working 524 00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:13,320 Speaker 3: with guys like Wilson Pickett. You know, I love Wilson. 525 00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:15,920 Speaker 3: I play them all the time. Before he died, I 526 00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:18,800 Speaker 3: had a chance to work with him, and he just 527 00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:22,240 Speaker 3: blew the place apart. And he wasn't he was sick, 528 00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:25,040 Speaker 3: you know, and he wasn't feeling good at and so 529 00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:27,600 Speaker 3: I people like that. I got to work with the 530 00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:30,120 Speaker 3: Mamas and the Papas and the Beatles. I didn't work 531 00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:30,800 Speaker 3: with the Beatles. 532 00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:31,680 Speaker 1: I take that back. 533 00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:37,040 Speaker 3: I met them. So I've been so blessed and fortunate 534 00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:40,320 Speaker 3: in my life that I got to all the acts 535 00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:42,719 Speaker 3: that I was selling in the record shop too. You know, 536 00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:45,880 Speaker 3: I'm working a year later, I'm working with him. 537 00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:49,000 Speaker 1: Mark Farner came on the show from Grandfunk Railroad. I 538 00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:49,960 Speaker 1: love Mark Farner. 539 00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:53,240 Speaker 3: Yes, I love Grand Funk Railroad and I love their records. 540 00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:55,320 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I love them. I love He did this 541 00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:57,720 Speaker 1: show and what he said was he said, he's a 542 00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:00,760 Speaker 1: very fit guy, very ripped guy, very bad And he 543 00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:02,720 Speaker 1: rips his shirt off in the middle of the show 544 00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:06,400 Speaker 1: and the promoter comes back SATs it goes, oh my god, man. 545 00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:08,840 Speaker 1: That was great because because in the back of the show. 546 00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:10,840 Speaker 1: At the back of the house, they really can't see 547 00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:13,160 Speaker 1: you that closely. And when you rip that shirt up, 548 00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:16,040 Speaker 1: and that's fantastic. And the question for you with that is, like, 549 00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:18,360 Speaker 1: were women jumping out of the bushes on you in 550 00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:20,360 Speaker 1: your band? How did you handle that in terms. 551 00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:23,360 Speaker 3: Of oh, we had our share of that, But I mean, basically, 552 00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:27,960 Speaker 3: you measured your success by how loud the girls screamed, 553 00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:31,520 Speaker 3: and so there were lots of access got screams louder 554 00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:35,160 Speaker 3: than us. That was part of the sixties. But gradually, 555 00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:38,240 Speaker 3: you know, hopefully you're talented enough to where your music 556 00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:41,080 Speaker 3: takes over. I mean, don't get me wrong, I was 557 00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:45,120 Speaker 3: very flattered and very young, healthy American. Yeah, I mean 558 00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:49,400 Speaker 3: you know, but later in life you better your music 559 00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:52,480 Speaker 3: better be saying something because the screams don't last that long. 560 00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:54,160 Speaker 1: Well, you're one of those people that music is something. 561 00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:56,360 Speaker 1: You play it, that song comes on, you're not going 562 00:32:56,440 --> 00:32:58,440 Speaker 1: to stop til you finish the song. It's like a movie. 563 00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:00,200 Speaker 3: Well, thank you that music. 564 00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:04,040 Speaker 1: And it's so evoke something. What I loved about music 565 00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:07,000 Speaker 1: back then was music was music, and talent was talented. 566 00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:09,719 Speaker 1: People weren't as cautious, so there's that famous thing on 567 00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:13,400 Speaker 1: YouTube where you see Tom Jones singing with Crosby Stills 568 00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:14,200 Speaker 1: in Nash. 569 00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:16,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, he could hold it with anybody, you know, I 570 00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:19,200 Speaker 3: mean any r and b artists, any David. 571 00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:21,719 Speaker 1: Crosby's there, but he's kind of playing and looking at 572 00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:24,560 Speaker 1: Tom Jones like, wow, man, you really are pretty. He's 573 00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:26,880 Speaker 1: the real amazing you know what I mean. But that 574 00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:30,000 Speaker 1: way of music was music and people could just all 575 00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:31,880 Speaker 1: just get into it together because it was about It 576 00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:35,080 Speaker 1: wasn't about me. I'm over here, I'm different from you. Whatever. 577 00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:38,280 Speaker 1: No tricks, binga, thank you, no tricks. Now, let me 578 00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:41,040 Speaker 1: ask you this. You talk about the change you weren't 579 00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:43,920 Speaker 1: necessarily going to record certain types of music anymore, regardless 580 00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:46,560 Speaker 1: of who had written it for you and was proposing 581 00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:49,720 Speaker 1: it to you Alah Harrison and so forth. But no doubt, 582 00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:52,400 Speaker 1: I'm assuming you've seen the montage on Breaking Bat of 583 00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:56,480 Speaker 1: Crystal Blue Persuasion. Correct, Yes, you have to. So the 584 00:33:56,640 --> 00:33:59,160 Speaker 1: music in a wonderful way, because it's someone who works 585 00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:03,760 Speaker 1: in film music is critical. There's this wonderful sequence in 586 00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:07,040 Speaker 1: Breaking Back Crystal Blue Persuasion just so happens to work 587 00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:11,680 Speaker 1: perfectly there, mixing well the meth in the meth lab. 588 00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:15,000 Speaker 3: You know. I try to tell one group of people that, 589 00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:17,640 Speaker 3: you know, I wrote it about the Good Lord, and 590 00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:20,960 Speaker 3: I tell another group of people who say, oh, was 591 00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:23,640 Speaker 3: that about drugs time. No, it wasn't. 592 00:34:23,680 --> 00:34:27,160 Speaker 1: But that song is, of course one of the anthems 593 00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:29,279 Speaker 1: of getting high. It's a great headshop song. 594 00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:31,120 Speaker 3: I don't know whether to say thank you or not. 595 00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:35,680 Speaker 3: I just well, you know, it was at the right 596 00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:40,240 Speaker 3: time in the sixties, and buzz Aldrin asked me to 597 00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:44,040 Speaker 3: come and play at the h They had a reunion 598 00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:47,440 Speaker 3: of all the people in nineteen It was the sixtieth 599 00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:51,360 Speaker 3: year of the poly Moon landing, and he asked if 600 00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:54,280 Speaker 3: called An asked if I would come and do Crystal 601 00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:58,000 Speaker 3: Blue because it was number one when they landed. When 602 00:34:58,080 --> 00:34:59,880 Speaker 3: they landed on they should have played that on the 603 00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:02,440 Speaker 3: I would be honored. Are you kidding? 604 00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:03,440 Speaker 1: So? 605 00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:07,200 Speaker 3: I mean, I'm so pleased that our music has affected 606 00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:08,520 Speaker 3: people like that. I really am. 607 00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:10,960 Speaker 1: But like the Beatles, you you really make a sharp 608 00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:14,239 Speaker 1: turn there and it becomes music that's almost it was 609 00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:16,839 Speaker 1: that song. Like the Beatles complained for years, was that 610 00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:17,919 Speaker 1: song tough to play live? 611 00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:22,960 Speaker 3: No, it's probably my favorite song. I don't know between 612 00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:26,240 Speaker 3: it's a toss up between Money and Crystal Blue because 613 00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:28,680 Speaker 3: of the meaning of the song and the fact that 614 00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:30,799 Speaker 3: it was such a big hit for us. 615 00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:33,359 Speaker 1: And the meaning is what from your mouth? 616 00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:37,879 Speaker 3: Well, all I can say is it meant being persuaded 617 00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:42,120 Speaker 3: by the truth, and that really is is true. It's 618 00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:46,920 Speaker 3: a it's a song about my faith that was blooming 619 00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:50,480 Speaker 3: at the time, and about my Christian faith. And it 620 00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:52,680 Speaker 3: was very much you know these do. 621 00:35:52,719 --> 00:35:55,040 Speaker 1: You still live there now in that space now. 622 00:35:56,800 --> 00:35:59,879 Speaker 3: More than ever. It was like Sweet Cherry Wine and Ball. 623 00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:03,920 Speaker 3: They were snapshots of what I was feeling at the time, 624 00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:07,600 Speaker 3: and Crystal Blue was you know, it started. You know 625 00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:10,839 Speaker 3: how it came to this a damnedest story. I was 626 00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:15,080 Speaker 3: playing at Miami. I was playing a college in Miami, 627 00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:19,080 Speaker 3: and this nerdy little kid with thick glasses comes up 628 00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:22,480 Speaker 3: to me after the show with a poem. He said, Tommy, 629 00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:28,520 Speaker 3: read my poem please. It was called Crystal Persuasion. And 630 00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:33,320 Speaker 3: you know, as a songwriter, you're always looking for titles. 631 00:36:33,719 --> 00:36:37,320 Speaker 3: You're always on the make for interesting word combinations, especially 632 00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:42,920 Speaker 3: back in the sixties, always looking for interesting combinations of words. 633 00:36:43,160 --> 00:36:46,200 Speaker 3: And so after Crystal Persuasion, that's kind of an interesting 634 00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:49,080 Speaker 3: kind of an interesting visual. I don't quite sure what 635 00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:51,319 Speaker 3: it means yet, but so we took it home. We 636 00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:54,879 Speaker 3: wrote it that night, and we just needed another one 637 00:36:54,920 --> 00:36:59,759 Speaker 3: more syllable to have the rhyming scheme work. And so 638 00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:02,319 Speaker 3: we said, and I just thought of you know so 639 00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:05,760 Speaker 3: many times, you know a crystal like a diamond has 640 00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:09,200 Speaker 3: a faint bluish tint to it, And I said, crystal 641 00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:12,400 Speaker 3: blue persuasion sounded poetic. This guy that wrote the poem, 642 00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:14,360 Speaker 3: he never contacted me. 643 00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:16,239 Speaker 1: I'm going to say, he's not living in a forty 644 00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:17,680 Speaker 1: million dollar mansion in my ou. 645 00:37:18,239 --> 00:37:18,840 Speaker 3: No he's not. 646 00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:21,440 Speaker 1: I thought, maybe you you know, had got Yeah, okay, 647 00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:21,959 Speaker 1: he just. 648 00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:25,239 Speaker 3: Discis fishing on a pontoon boat that I know so 649 00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:28,640 Speaker 3: at any rate, And I tried to look this kid down. 650 00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:31,680 Speaker 3: But now now the words were not we changed. 651 00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:33,560 Speaker 1: Of course, it's not his pod. 652 00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:36,719 Speaker 3: We just used the title. But I always wanted to 653 00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:40,279 Speaker 3: thank him and never got the chance. So I don't know. 654 00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:43,360 Speaker 3: We may bump into him sometimes. But this was sixty 655 00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:46,400 Speaker 3: eight and the record we went, and it was so frustrating. 656 00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:49,040 Speaker 3: It was probably the hardest record I ever produced. We 657 00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:52,800 Speaker 3: went in the studio and completely overproduced the record. 658 00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:54,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, what do you mean by that? 659 00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:57,000 Speaker 3: We just put too much crap in it. And you know, 660 00:37:57,040 --> 00:37:59,120 Speaker 3: we had a full set of drums, we had two 661 00:37:59,239 --> 00:38:02,360 Speaker 3: or three guitar we had, you know, just too much stuff. 662 00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:04,360 Speaker 1: Who plays that opening lick on the guitars? 663 00:38:04,719 --> 00:38:07,040 Speaker 3: That was Eddie Gray? Our guitar played Eddie Gray. 664 00:38:07,320 --> 00:38:09,680 Speaker 1: That's great. I love that. It's almost like Santana. 665 00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:13,160 Speaker 3: It wasn't that great? And the night we wrote the song, 666 00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:15,319 Speaker 3: he came up with that. As a matter of fact, 667 00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:19,000 Speaker 3: he came up with the chords. I said, what's that? 668 00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:21,600 Speaker 3: And he says it's something I'm pulling around. I say, 669 00:38:21,640 --> 00:38:22,040 Speaker 3: it's great. 670 00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:26,280 Speaker 1: Do it again, my god, great openings. Yes, I've admired 671 00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:28,520 Speaker 1: you for so long. I've listened to your music forever, 672 00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:30,600 Speaker 1: and I'm so glad to meet you. 673 00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:38,520 Speaker 3: Well, thank you, God, bless you, my friend. What do you. 674 00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:43,560 Speaker 1: See my thanks to Tommy James. I'll leave you with 675 00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:48,000 Speaker 1: Crystal Blue Persuasion off the nineteen sixty eight album Crimson 676 00:38:48,040 --> 00:38:51,200 Speaker 1: and Clover. I'm Alec Baldwin. Here's the thing, is brought 677 00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:58,080 Speaker 1: to you by iHeart Radio. 678 00:38:58,280 --> 00:39:03,520 Speaker 2: Change, Ain't it? Beauty? 679 00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:04,280 Speaker 3: Bath? 680 00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:17,919 Speaker 5: Still to Dissuasion, Better Get Bad? 681 00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:28,120 Speaker 2: Go to see he's a last who love Busy answered, 682 00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:37,279 Speaker 2: that's all, So don't you give up