Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Carol Masser and I'm
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stanobek. We're here every day bringing
Speaker 1: you the latest news from the world's of business and finance,
Speaker 1: plus technology, politics, economics, all harnessing the power of Business
Speaker 1: Week reporters and editors, not to mention our journalists and
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Speaker 1: You can also listen to our radio show at two
Speaker 1: pm Eastern Time on Bloomberg Radio or watch us on
Speaker 1: YouTube search Bloomberg Global News. A lot of developments on
Speaker 1: the vaccine and COVID nineteen front Today Jane Jay's experimental
Speaker 1: one shot COVID nineteen vaccine generating a long lasting immune
Speaker 1: response in an early safety study. So we've got that
Speaker 1: right now. We've got ninety two and a half million
Speaker 1: cases death surpassing one million, and as for the vaccine
Speaker 1: roll out, more than thirty two point four million shots
Speaker 1: have been given worldwide. Let's bring in our guest, Gig Grandfall.
Speaker 1: She is at the Johns Hopkins University Bloomberg School of
Speaker 1: Public Health, supported by Michael or Bloomberg, founder of Bloomberg
Speaker 1: LP and Bloomberg Philanthropies. Her background is amazing as an
Speaker 1: Associate Professor Senior Scholar in the Department of Environmental Health
Speaker 1: and Engineering, and she's an immunologist by training. Among things
Speaker 1: she has authored and one is Preparing for Bioterrorism, the
Speaker 1: Alfred Peace Loans Foundations Leadership in Biosecurity. She's on the
Speaker 1: phone in Baltimore, so let's get to it. G g Um.
Speaker 1: The one thing Tim and I really want to ask
Speaker 1: you about is a story we just talked about about
Speaker 1: a New York congressman who got UH the vaccine two
Speaker 1: shots and still diagnosed with COVID nine team, how do
Speaker 1: we need to kind of understand how that can happen? Yes, So,
Speaker 1: vaccines are not UM. They're not a like a kevlar
Speaker 1: vest for for viruses. UM. They are a training program
Speaker 1: for your immune system and and we look at UM
Speaker 1: how effective they might be. UM. So some of the
Speaker 1: vaccines are like effective. That means that if you and
Speaker 1: I were both exposed and you were vaccinated and I
Speaker 1: was not, your risk of coming down with COVID is reduced.
Speaker 1: So it's not zero and UM and we don't know
Speaker 1: there are lots of variables involved. Um, you know, how
Speaker 1: long was it after the second shot before he came
Speaker 1: down with COVID, whether or not there was some failure
Speaker 1: along the way. Um, so all these things could uh
Speaker 1: could interact with his his protection. But um, but yeah,
Speaker 1: it's it's not Uh, nothing is add percent in this world.
Speaker 1: But um, but definitely the vaccine has been shown to
Speaker 1: be protective for most people. Do you get concerned when
Speaker 1: you see stories like this news stories like this because
Speaker 1: it could give people the wrong impression about the efficacy
Speaker 1: of a vaccine or about the need to get vaccinated. Sure,
Speaker 1: because you know, we were humans we love stories, right,
Speaker 1: and um, sometimes the stories don't tell the um what
Speaker 1: what it was actually true for most people statistically we
Speaker 1: don't think in terms of population. So that true, especially
Speaker 1: when it comes to any sort of adverse events from
Speaker 1: them from a vaccine. Um. You always worry about that
Speaker 1: because bad things happen to people all the time. And
Speaker 1: if it's connected to a vaccine and a story, Um,
Speaker 1: the two things might not have anything to do with
Speaker 1: each other. But um, but it could be you know,
Speaker 1: linger in somebody's mind. And as fact, how they think
Speaker 1: of the vaccine, does the variants that are coming out
Speaker 1: in terms of COVID impact You know, even if you've
Speaker 1: got a vaccine, could you get the virus? Get get
Speaker 1: are you more could you are you more likely to
Speaker 1: get the variant versus the original COVID nineteen I guess,
Speaker 1: is what I'm asking. Sure, So right now, UM, we
Speaker 1: think that the vaccines are protective against these new variants
Speaker 1: that we've been discovered. But unfortunately, I'm I'm worried because, UM,
Speaker 1: you know, viruses mutate all the time, all the time,
Speaker 1: and so one of the things that we need to
Speaker 1: do is to limit their opportunities to mutate. And um,
Speaker 1: and that means driving down but that's through vaccination for
Speaker 1: masks and everything else. But UM, when we have these variants, UM,
Speaker 1: it looks like the vaccine will protect. But I just
Speaker 1: worry about you know, the next ones that we discuss
Speaker 1: go go with us. I think about all of those
Speaker 1: movies that are made about you know, the virus, the
Speaker 1: things that mutate and how they become you know, in
Speaker 1: a fictional world. UM, just difficult to kind of overcome.
Speaker 1: What's the worst case scenario of mutation in this virus?
Speaker 1: The worst case scenario for this UH, for this virate, Well, um,
Speaker 1: there there are lots of different things that the virus
Speaker 1: doesn't do now that UM that it could do, and
Speaker 1: so we want to make sure it doesn't become more severe,
Speaker 1: more severe disease UM, have an expanded population that it
Speaker 1: causes more severe di is in UM. But what I
Speaker 1: think is the most serious concern right now is just
Speaker 1: making sure that it doesn't um evolve away from the vaccine.
Speaker 1: So we don't want it to escape from the vaccine,
Speaker 1: and and the quicker we can get this under control,
Speaker 1: the more likely we won't have to worry as much
Speaker 1: about that it might be in the future that we
Speaker 1: need to update the vaccine UM saying it will be
Speaker 1: a longer time in the future than you know than
Speaker 1: these variants might suggest. Well, thanks for our producers. I
Speaker 1: know that one thing that you have looked closely at
Speaker 1: is the politicization not just of the entire pandemic, but
Speaker 1: of the vaccine and the administration of the vaccine. What
Speaker 1: do lawmakers need to do in order to make it
Speaker 1: less politicized? So we can truly round the corner here,
Speaker 1: and we only have about forty seconds, Okay, Yeah. I
Speaker 1: mean you just really need to put um everything on
Speaker 1: the science and make decisions based on the science and
Speaker 1: admit that you know. Science changes, and so then that
Speaker 1: what you know about of the disease and what you
Speaker 1: can your plans that will change as well. But UM,
Speaker 1: if you always stick to what you know, then you
Speaker 1: don't have to worry about about being wrong um and
Speaker 1: just acknowledge that you know. Things change. But we're doing
Speaker 1: the best you can with the knowledge and science that
Speaker 1: we have available. I wanted to go to what Charlie
Speaker 1: was talking about with Johnson and Johnson's one shot vaccine.
Speaker 1: It's it has not been a proof for emergency use authorization.
Speaker 1: We are still awaiting further information and data from a
Speaker 1: clinical trial. But I'm wondering just about the one shot
Speaker 1: element here. How big of a deal is it that
Speaker 1: this could there could be a one shot vaccine coming out? Oh,
Speaker 1: it's such a big deal. So we only have gotten
Speaker 1: the phase UM one and two data for Johnson and Johnson,
Speaker 1: so we are still waiting to hear about the efficacy
Speaker 1: which will come in in the phase three data. So
Speaker 1: that's what we're still waiting for the data. So I
Speaker 1: don't want to get too excited. But um, it's a
Speaker 1: one shot vaccine and it requires regular refrigeration. It's not
Speaker 1: one of these you know, needing to have an exotic
Speaker 1: minus a d degrees refrigerator, which is what you need
Speaker 1: for the visor and not so lesser degree than madiurnal vaccine.
Speaker 1: So UM, it's it's very exciting from a logistics point
Speaker 1: of view, because, UM, this is a hard enough task
Speaker 1: as it without having to add these additional logistical burdens.
Speaker 1: It's like it sounds to me like, you know, this
Speaker 1: is pretty impressive, right, yeah, I mean, and as you said,
Speaker 1: it's early going. When do we expect to get that later? Uh?
Speaker 1: And key UM stage study. I've heard that we should
Speaker 1: expect it in the in the next couple of weeks,
Speaker 1: next two or three weeks, and that plans are to
Speaker 1: have late February early March at least. The last Ti've
Speaker 1: i've heard UM to have them submit the data for
Speaker 1: UM the process to hopefully get emergency to use authorization.
Speaker 1: So it's it's some weeks away. There are some concerns
Speaker 1: I read about how manufacturing is not quite up the
Speaker 1: level that they want. UM. Hopefully they can correct whatever
Speaker 1: issues they are having but um but yeah, it's it's
Speaker 1: in Hopefully in the next couple of months, we will
Speaker 1: have another vaccine online. The vaccines that have been approved
Speaker 1: for emergency use authorization here in the US from MODERNA
Speaker 1: and from from fisor BioNTech. They use messenger RNA technology.
Speaker 1: How is the technology or or the the way the
Speaker 1: vaccine is manufactured. How's that different in the Johnson Johnson one. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so that is using an ad no virus vector which
Speaker 1: can't UM as in the previous segment hurt. It can't
Speaker 1: replicate in humans, so it's not um you don't have
Speaker 1: to worry. You cannot get um covid from this vaccine. UM.
Speaker 1: But it is a different factor, a little more traditional
Speaker 1: UM vector to be used for for for um different
Speaker 1: types of vaccine. So um, it's it's just another product
Speaker 1: like the others. Um uh. It will have a few
Speaker 1: side effects, so people just need to be aware that
Speaker 1: they might have a headache, they might have a store arms,
Speaker 1: things like that, but that you know, they can before
Speaker 1: fore armed, you know, so they that they can um
Speaker 1: be prepared for that. I understand. It was also the
Speaker 1: same science that was used in Jane Jay z Bolo vaccine,
Speaker 1: Zekea and a few other things. Okay, I gotta ask you,
Speaker 1: this is something that I don't quite understand, you know,
Speaker 1: the kind of problems we've had with the vaccine rollout.
Speaker 1: What happened? Where was the breakdown? Because I feel like
Speaker 1: we had a ton of conversations over the summer that
Speaker 1: we knew it was coming, We knew the vaccine several
Speaker 1: we talked about distribution logistics. What happened do you think
Speaker 1: in terms of getting it out to people. I think
Speaker 1: we'll learn more as the weeks go on had happened there?
Speaker 1: Because I think there were always going to be some hiccups.
Speaker 1: But one thing is for sure, the stimulus still UM
Speaker 1: included money for distribution, and that was not present before.
Speaker 1: So the other problem is that UM that states are
Speaker 1: doing a lot more than UM than probably they should
Speaker 1: be doing. There is UH just at least been the
Speaker 1: case for all aspects of UM the COVID response, where
Speaker 1: UM every state is UH doing their own plan instead
Speaker 1: of having UM much more aggressive federal UM you know, leadership.
Speaker 1: And so I think that that situation will change in
Speaker 1: the in the coming weeks and UM and so hopefully
Speaker 1: people will get used to the logistics and laws really quickly,
Speaker 1: if you can in fifteen seconds, do you anticipate by
Speaker 1: summer will have the majority of our population vaccinated or
Speaker 1: maybe even sooner? I hope so. And that should be
Speaker 1: our goal because um, we need to get to prepare
Speaker 1: for these very and this vaccination is a huge way
Speaker 1: to get everybody going in the economy going again. Great stuff, listen,
Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Really appreciate your expertise. Gig Gronvill,
Speaker 1: Senior Scholar at the Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security
Speaker 1: and Associate Professor at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of
Speaker 1: Public Health, of course, supported by Michael R. Bloomberg, founder
Speaker 1: of Bloomberg LP. This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol
Speaker 1: Masser and Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stinovic from Bloomberg Radio.
Speaker 1: So Big Business, Tim, Yeah, we've been see it backing
Speaker 1: away from President Trump after the Capitol Hill riot, and
Speaker 1: while that could be an opportunity for Democrats, it's likely
Speaker 1: not to play out that way. So reporting for Bloomberg
Speaker 1: business Week, business Week editor Peter Coy on the phone
Speaker 1: in New Jersey along with Bloomberg Business Week Editor Joe Weber,
Speaker 1: he's on the access line in Brooklyn. Uh. You know,
Speaker 1: it has been interesting to see big business, you know,
Speaker 1: in terms of how quickly and probably understandably, Joel that
Speaker 1: they've been backing away from this president. Do we have Joel?
Speaker 1: I think we're having a little trouble getting Peter. I wanted, Peter,
Speaker 1: do we have you? Yeah? I can answer that question.
Speaker 1: They have definitely backed away. I mean, what I said
Speaker 1: in my article is that the bridge between Trump and
Speaker 1: the big business was never as solid as it might
Speaker 1: have appeared, but now it's inflaming ruins. It's just completely destroyed,
Speaker 1: probably irreparable. Of course, that's with Trump. That doesn't necessarily
Speaker 1: mean the bridge between the big business and Republican Party
Speaker 1: is irreparable. I think that is reparable, and that's what
Speaker 1: we're gonna be watching for over the next few years.
Speaker 1: So the big question, though, Peter, is what the Republican
Speaker 1: Party looks like over the next few years, because there
Speaker 1: are segments of the Republican Party right now that aren't
Speaker 1: the traditional pro business uh no, low regulation and free
Speaker 1: market right correct, correct, correct, that's all right. The issue
Speaker 1: is now that a big Trump is put at imprint
Speaker 1: Republican Party He's pulled in new sets of voters and
Speaker 1: who are more populist and are suspicious of big business.
Speaker 1: That elaps a big business the CEO just as much
Speaker 1: as their suspicious of academic and government and media elites.
Speaker 1: They don't give big business a pass, and so that
Speaker 1: makes it tough for organizations like the Business Roundtable, the
Speaker 1: US Chamber of Commerce, the National Association of Manufacturers. Joe Weber,
Speaker 1: I think we've got you, now, come on in on
Speaker 1: the conversation. Yeah, you don't need me, though, you can
Speaker 1: just stick with Peter that you know Peter the There
Speaker 1: is this opportunity here UM for Democrats. And we think
Speaker 1: about big business and it's largely historically been UM been
Speaker 1: something that feels like it's drifted more towards GOP than
Speaker 1: than Democrats. And yet there's this kind of a jump
Speaker 1: ball moment. And what is the opportunity really for for
Speaker 1: Democrats here to take advantage of this moment? Now, they
Speaker 1: have always been segments of the business community that were
Speaker 1: more favorable towards the Democrats. Tech was until fairly recently
Speaker 1: and now, but that serve marriages on the rocks a
Speaker 1: little bit. UM. But the the opportunity the jump all
Speaker 1: you call it, okay, Look already we've seen that the
Speaker 1: stock markets responded pretty well to the prospects of a
Speaker 1: Biden victory, and when the two Democrats won in the
Speaker 1: open seats in Georgia, which gave the Democrats the Senate control,
Speaker 1: stock market went up on that news. So people are
Speaker 1: expecting two things from Biden that are favorable for big business.
Speaker 1: One is that he'll probably bring on more stimulus COVID
Speaker 1: relief bigger dollars, and two that he might be more
Speaker 1: effective than Trump has been at arresting the coronavirus arise epidemic.
Speaker 1: If he succeeds in both of those, that would be
Speaker 1: great for corporate profits and therefore for stock prices. So
Speaker 1: what about how much of this is just big businesses
Speaker 1: backing away from Trump because of of last week and
Speaker 1: allonging for a GOP that it looks a lot more
Speaker 1: like it did pre Trump. That's I think that's most
Speaker 1: of it. It's it's not so much that they're in
Speaker 1: love with Biden. There's still a lot of suspicion of Biden,
Speaker 1: especially because the Democratic Party platform is quite liberal and
Speaker 1: the most liberal has been in decades. Um they look
Speaker 1: at a lot of things that Biden wants to do
Speaker 1: and say, know, we don't want to go there, but
Speaker 1: Trump is you know, the obviously the breaking point was
Speaker 1: the invasion of the capital, which he seemed to incite.
Speaker 1: Um just shocked people. Organizations the National Associated Manufactors conventionally
Speaker 1: fairly true true read Republican group, uh almost right wing
Speaker 1: in them in the past. And yet they were the
Speaker 1: first ones out with the statement calling this sedition and
Speaker 1: asking Biden asking, I'm sorry, Pence to uh try to
Speaker 1: get the cabinet to invoke the amend but that Trump
Speaker 1: re moved from office. You know what's interesting though, I
Speaker 1: think for so long and but a while ago, Peter,
Speaker 1: that we thought, you know, business was beholden only two Republicans.
Speaker 1: But if you look at donations and you put it
Speaker 1: out your story that especially when Democrats call control Congress,
Speaker 1: you find groups like PE oil and gas, real estate
Speaker 1: companies tend to give a lot to the Democrats. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's very much opportunistic giving by these organizations. They want
Speaker 1: to give to people who I think they can help
Speaker 1: them with their agenda. Democrats rise up and gain a majority,
Speaker 1: then suddenly they want to curry favor with them. So
Speaker 1: it's very clear from the chart the tears of the story.
Speaker 1: And so with the Democrats controlling the White House and
Speaker 1: both House of the Congress this time, I think that
Speaker 1: could be strong giving to Democrats for at least the
Speaker 1: next two years. Peter, what about um uh this idea
Speaker 1: of of you know, we're in this moment that obviously
Speaker 1: has been inflamed. We're going to see what inspires of
Speaker 1: the next week. And I'm curious, like you know, from
Speaker 1: from your reporting, does it suggest that business will just
Speaker 1: stay on the sidelines for a while or will someone
Speaker 1: get back in and sort of like start to to
Speaker 1: angle sooner than that? You know they have they operate
Speaker 1: on multiple levels in the public. You don't hear a
Speaker 1: lot from them, like they don't really enjoy talking to
Speaker 1: people like me because you know, ask uncomfortable questions. But
Speaker 1: that doesn't mean they're not operating. They're very much in
Speaker 1: their lobbying day to day. So they're not on the
Speaker 1: sidelines at all. They're pushing their agenda and that will continue.
Speaker 1: You um, if anything will be stepped up now that
Speaker 1: we have a new UH Congress and a new president. Well,
Speaker 1: I do wonder Peter, does business help kind of, you know,
Speaker 1: help with the reboot of the Republican Party and help
Speaker 1: in the maybe perhaps redefinition definition of them, Like how
Speaker 1: do you see it? Um? Yeah, they it's not so
Speaker 1: much that they want to go in a new direction.
Speaker 1: They kind of want to go back to you. They
Speaker 1: kind of like that deregulation, low taxes. Um. But but
Speaker 1: it's that's the caricature that the big business is not
Speaker 1: um entirely against all kinds of regulation. In my article
Speaker 1: details several areas in which the big business, if anything,
Speaker 1: we melt against some of the deregulatory measures of the
Speaker 1: Trump administration. Well, definitely something to think about with everything
Speaker 1: else that's going on into kind of how we we
Speaker 1: get our way back. Peter, Um, always great. Peter Koy.
Speaker 1: He is Bloomberg Business Week Economics editor on the phone
Speaker 1: in New Jersey. Check out his story in the magazine
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Business Week. Getitor Joe Webber joining us on the
Speaker 1: access line in Brooklyn. This is Bloomberg Business Week with
Speaker 1: Carol Masser and Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stinovic from Bloomberg Radio.
Speaker 1: So all this week politics and the happenings in and
Speaker 1: around the nation's capital, no doubt about it. It has
Speaker 1: been our top story topped off with the second impeachment
Speaker 1: of President Trump, writing about it, and the one high
Speaker 1: ranking House Republican who has stuck her neck out when
Speaker 1: it comes to this, Representative Liz Cheney of Wyoming. You
Speaker 1: caught up with him earlier today on Quick Take, Am
Speaker 1: I talking about Josh I did? Yeah, Josh Greeney's national
Speaker 1: correspondent for Bloomberg Business Week, and he joins us now
Speaker 1: on the throne from Washington, d C. Josh, I cannot
Speaker 1: get enough of this column that you wrote last night
Speaker 1: about Liz Cheney's bold bet on impeachment. Did it backfire? Well?
Speaker 1: I don't think we're gonna know for a little while,
Speaker 1: but but certainly her going out and making the searing
Speaker 1: statement against Trump saying, there, you know, he's portrayed the
Speaker 1: United States, it's violated as over the office and his
Speaker 1: oath to the Constitution. UM. I think she probably expected
Speaker 1: to hope for a bigger following among Republicans. In the end,
Speaker 1: only nine other Republicans voted for her to support Trump's impeachment.
Speaker 1: But I think the real asset test is going to
Speaker 1: come in the months and years ahead, as you know,
Speaker 1: Trump fades from the scene. A bit. Part of the
Speaker 1: bet she was making is the future of the GOP
Speaker 1: is going to be something more along the lines of
Speaker 1: what it used to be. I mean Cheney before she
Speaker 1: came to Congress, Um was a very well known Neo
Speaker 1: Cohn who had uh serious conservative views like her father,
Speaker 1: former Vice President Dick Cheney. I think part of the
Speaker 1: bet here is that she can steer the party back
Speaker 1: in that direction. But having said that, uh, you know,
Speaker 1: just just in the day or so since the vote,
Speaker 1: in the week or so since the riots, it's pretty
Speaker 1: clear from from UH polls that the majority of Republican
Speaker 1: voters are sticking with Trump. So something is going to
Speaker 1: have to change in order for her bet to be
Speaker 1: proved to be the right one, uh politically. But but
Speaker 1: I do think it's probably too soon to make that judgment.
Speaker 1: So does she accurately represent the people of Wyoming and
Speaker 1: the people put her in office, Well, she certainly does not.
Speaker 1: In terms of the vote she took to impeach Trump.
Speaker 1: Trump won Wyoming last November. I think it was seventy
Speaker 1: six percent, and he's one of the red estates in
Speaker 1: the country. So so certainly a lot of supports for
Speaker 1: Trump there. Uh And then speaking to people internoun Wyoming
Speaker 1: politics for this column, they said, look, there's going to
Speaker 1: be unhappiness. It is gonna ruffle a lot of feathers.
Speaker 1: But that being said, Cheney, you know that the Cheney
Speaker 1: name has a long and story history in Wyoming politics. Um,
Speaker 1: you know she isn't she isn't. Uh knew she has
Speaker 1: a serious base of support. I think there's a lot
Speaker 1: of good will toward her in Wyoming, just generally leaving
Speaker 1: aside the issue of Trump and his impeachment. So most
Speaker 1: people I talked to thought she would have no real
Speaker 1: problem surviving and timing wise, this is probably good for
Speaker 1: her in the sense that she was just reelected to
Speaker 1: another two year House term in November, so it's gonna
Speaker 1: be quite a while before she has to face voters again.
Speaker 1: What's the potential upside of this becoming a leader within
Speaker 1: the party, I mean, if she does successfully sort of
Speaker 1: forged her own path away from President Trump with a
Speaker 1: handful of other Republicans, what's the potential upside she faces. Well,
Speaker 1: you know, I think in the best possible world, you know,
Speaker 1: the upside she'd have is that you know, the party
Speaker 1: is going to face a reckoning after Trump, and that
Speaker 1: maybe when he's no longer in the Oval office and
Speaker 1: not splashed on Fox News all the time, assuming the
Speaker 1: social media platforms keep him curbed, that his influence on
Speaker 1: Republican politics will wane um in much the same way
Speaker 1: Sarah Palems did ten years ago. You know, for a
Speaker 1: while there she was the hottest thing Republican politics. Everyone
Speaker 1: covered her endorsement, was afraid of her criticism, you know,
Speaker 1: but eventually she kind of blew away and and and
Speaker 1: didn't exert any real lasting influence. Personally, I think Cheney's
Speaker 1: best case hope would be the thing like that would
Speaker 1: happen with Trump. The two years from now, the world
Speaker 1: will have long moved on Biden, the Democrats will be
Speaker 1: in charge, unifying thing among Republicans will be opposed Biden,
Speaker 1: and that Cheney will be seen as someone who, you know,
Speaker 1: bravely ventured out and broke with the trumpets at a time.
Speaker 1: And that was a dangerous thing to do. And one
Speaker 1: thing that both her supporters and critics I talked to
Speaker 1: said was that this move was absolutely a bold one
Speaker 1: and a risky one. It wasn't an easy political thing
Speaker 1: to do. I think a lot of people give her
Speaker 1: credit for take that step. Well, I kind of know
Speaker 1: the answer to this question because I've read your story.
Speaker 1: But you know what embolded her to do it? Was
Speaker 1: this just a politician saying, you know what's right, what's wrong? Basically.
Speaker 1: You know, I got a lot of debate while reporting
Speaker 1: about this. I mean, on one hand, clearly this is
Speaker 1: a principal span that she has no love for Donald
Speaker 1: Trump and has been unhappy with him and has said
Speaker 1: so publicly all along, although not to the degree that
Speaker 1: we saw with her impeachment statement. Um that being said,
Speaker 1: she is a professional politician from a family of politicians,
Speaker 1: and everything they do is to some extent a political bet.
Speaker 1: I think the bet here is that long term, this
Speaker 1: is going to be seen in hindsight to be the
Speaker 1: right move, in the same way that a lot of
Speaker 1: people who voted a lot of Republicans have voted to
Speaker 1: impeach Richard Nixon. You know, that's now the first line
Speaker 1: in their obituary, and something that will in hindsight come
Speaker 1: to be seen as brave and principles and will pay
Speaker 1: political benefits for the few Republicans willing to do this
Speaker 1: at the time. Yeah, I just wonder how long it
Speaker 1: will take for for that hindsight to become clear. Is it,
Speaker 1: you know, two years when she faces re election, or
Speaker 1: is it you know, ten years from now, or or
Speaker 1: even know. It's an interesting story because I think what's
Speaker 1: likelier to happen in the short time. They are already
Speaker 1: petitions going around among House Republicans to oust from her
Speaker 1: leadership position in the House, So she may well face
Speaker 1: a steep short term penalty, not in terms of losing
Speaker 1: her seat in Wyoming, but I'm losing losing her leadership
Speaker 1: spot in the Republican House leadership, So she could actually
Speaker 1: pay a steep price before she realizes any political game.
Speaker 1: I think that would come later on in the future.
Speaker 1: But all of this, I think, uh, certainly, her fate
Speaker 1: in the House is probably gonna be decided in the
Speaker 1: next fifty days or so. I think we'll have a
Speaker 1: sense that this is survival, not quite cancel culture. But
Speaker 1: I just think about this whole idea that you're right,
Speaker 1: you're allowed to have different perspectives. You know, Josh, You've
Speaker 1: been following politics like this is something we've got to
Speaker 1: figure out. That's the whole crux of what makes I
Speaker 1: think good politics is when you have different points of
Speaker 1: view and people can discuss it and figure out what's
Speaker 1: a smart way forward for both. Yeah, I think that's right.
Speaker 1: And look, you know, in fairness to those Republicans who
Speaker 1: want to cancel this, Cheney, you know, she she's the
Speaker 1: number three ranking House Republican. Her vote was clearly out
Speaker 1: of step with the majority of her caucus. And if
Speaker 1: they decide the pass loution resolution to revoke it, yeah,
Speaker 1: they're well within their rights to do that, and she
Speaker 1: was well aware of that going into it. I think
Speaker 1: for her that it's a combination of principle, like I said,
Speaker 1: and also a belief that longer term, her brand of politics,
Speaker 1: it's still one that that she and other Republicans can
Speaker 1: be bullish on and that there will come a day,
Speaker 1: even though it's harder vision now when Trump won't have
Speaker 1: this iron grip on the Republic. I'm just gonna say
Speaker 1: to Dick Cheney wears a mask, and that picture is
Speaker 1: in Josh's story, Josh Green, and I want to say thanks, Josh,
Speaker 1: because we're gonna talk with Adam Gentlesen a little bit
Speaker 1: later on, Who's got a book out called kill Switch,
Speaker 1: all about the Senate UH and the crippling of American democracy.
Speaker 1: So Josh, thank you because you brought us to us.
Speaker 1: Josh actually has a story about that book. It's on
Speaker 1: the Bloomberg terminal as well. Josh Green, National correspondent, Bloomberg
Speaker 1: Business Week, brom A Journal. Yeah, but you let me drive. No, no, no, honey, please,
Speaker 1: I'll do the right I want to drive. Just drive
Speaker 1: the questions, Drive to the globe, Dawn Radio. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: time for the Drive to the close. And today we're
Speaker 1: hearing from Wall Street Visionaries, three executives who spent their
Speaker 1: careers on the cutting edge of the financial industry, who
Speaker 1: shared their views on what's to come in the next
Speaker 1: five to ten years. This is so important for investors,
Speaker 1: and they shared it all with Bloomberg News. Is Shenali Bass.
Speaker 1: She's Wall Street reporters, she's on the phone. She's in
Speaker 1: our New York City bureau. But we believe in social distancing,
Speaker 1: so she's down in our studio. Sally, this is a
Speaker 1: killer story. It is among the most read, It will
Speaker 1: be among the most read for the week overall. So
Speaker 1: tell us first of all, what you set out to
Speaker 1: do and who you talk to. Thanks Carol. This is
Speaker 1: something that I had been working on for a while,
Speaker 1: something I will ask all industry executives. Actually, it's what
Speaker 1: do they think the next big worry is for them
Speaker 1: over the next five to ten years? And finally we
Speaker 1: got it all down on paper this time around, in
Speaker 1: the middle of a global pandemic. The biggest surprise is
Speaker 1: that from three financial asinaries in the middle of a
Speaker 1: global pandemic, they're most concerned about the impact on technology
Speaker 1: on society, Technology and society. Um Chinali, We've been lucky
Speaker 1: to have you throughout the week join us on quick
Speaker 1: Take to talk about some of these interviews you did.
Speaker 1: One thing that I'm curious about is this thread that
Speaker 1: runs through them. What did these responses have in common?
Speaker 1: What do these interviews have in common in terms of
Speaker 1: their concerned about next big risk? Well, there are a
Speaker 1: couple of things to him. One of them was that
Speaker 1: a lot of our guests believe that there should be
Speaker 1: a much bigger role that the government plays in terms
Speaker 1: of reigning in some of these technology companies. Marty Chavez,
Speaker 1: who was really an architect of the technology businesses within Goldman.
Speaker 1: Sachs had said the big tech giants should be stress
Speaker 1: tested similar to how the big US banks were stress
Speaker 1: tested after the two financial crisis, because just like any
Speaker 1: other business that has gotten very big over time, um,
Speaker 1: you know, there's really externalities that can come from unrestrained
Speaker 1: grab to profit. I think that is such a key
Speaker 1: thing considering that massive hack, and it's really been overshadowed,
Speaker 1: understandably so by all the political news that we've had
Speaker 1: here in the United States. But you know, when I
Speaker 1: have side conversation shinale with individuals, they're like, you know,
Speaker 1: we got to keep on this story. We gotta figure
Speaker 1: out what happened that massive hack into US, into the
Speaker 1: U S. Government, into various institutions and organizations. We kind
Speaker 1: of that was a really big warning sign. It certainly is.
Speaker 1: And you know the thing about it is, there's so
Speaker 1: much else going on in the world right now. I
Speaker 1: think that's what makes it important that you have all
Speaker 1: of these executives who are not only looking at this
Speaker 1: as a long term product problem, but also I'm trying
Speaker 1: to call on leaders to do something about this. Anyways,
Speaker 1: as tired and exhausted and tied up as they are
Speaker 1: with all the other issues that are going on in society.
Speaker 1: So there's another individual that you spoke to, Eileen Murray.
Speaker 1: She's former co CEO at Bridgewater Associates, And we do
Speaker 1: want to share, first of all with our audience a
Speaker 1: little snippet of the conversation where in this little clip
Speaker 1: she talks about the need for businesses and the Biden
Speaker 1: administration to come together job training and education. Check it out, everyone,
Speaker 1: It's like the current pandemic. You know, just as all
Speaker 1: of the companies that were producing a vaccine how to
Speaker 1: work closely hand in glove with the government, businesses need
Speaker 1: to work closely, hand in glove with the Biden administration
Speaker 1: to deal with people that need to be retrained. And
Speaker 1: then I think, let's let's step back to lower income people.
Speaker 1: I'm in this COVID situation. There are children that that
Speaker 1: their parents can't afford a computer for them to be
Speaker 1: educated online and a lot of a lot of education
Speaker 1: has gone online. It breaks my heart. Uh, you know,
Speaker 1: so how do we inset people to donate computers to
Speaker 1: to to to donate money to helping those people get educated,
Speaker 1: give them a tax break? You know, I don't know
Speaker 1: if that's the full solution, but the problem is getting bigger. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there you have it. That's Eileen Murray, she's former COCO
Speaker 1: of Bridgewater Associates speaking with um Shinali. The idea of
Speaker 1: permanent unemployment, the idea of not just the pandemic, but
Speaker 1: but people who cannot get jobs again. What is the
Speaker 1: solution to that according to the people you spoke with. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and and remember, Kim, one thing that's terrifying about this
Speaker 1: is she is speaking about this issue irregardless of a
Speaker 1: global pandemic. And because of this COVID nineteen crisis and
Speaker 1: economic crisis, we have eighteen million people who have claimed
Speaker 1: unemployment across regular and emergency program so we already have
Speaker 1: a lot of joblessness. One of the things she offers
Speaker 1: is the idea of a tax break to companies that
Speaker 1: are willing to retrain workers and help really kickstart employment
Speaker 1: in this new economy because it does look different with
Speaker 1: u with technology than it did in the past. So
Speaker 1: instead of laying people off and letting automation take over,
Speaker 1: why not create jobs kind of like the Henry Ford
Speaker 1: model with um you know, with cars, build technology and
Speaker 1: build processes that make the economy more productive, but also
Speaker 1: do it in a way that allows the people to
Speaker 1: afford the goods that they are making. That's what David Siegel,
Speaker 1: who was the co founder of quantitative finance Giants to
Speaker 1: Stigma had promote proposed. Well, that's what's interesting too, is
Speaker 1: that listen, you know, we constantly are talking about this
Speaker 1: time of crisis and strain and stress you know, leads
Speaker 1: to innovation. That's the good sign. But you do wonder
Speaker 1: what it means for There's so many jobs that are
Speaker 1: constantly being automated at this point. I mean, listen, we've
Speaker 1: kidded around here, how now even stories are being written,
Speaker 1: you know, by robots and automated system It's not a joke.
Speaker 1: It's real. It's a thing, and it's so it's it's
Speaker 1: areas snale that we never thought would be automated. Yet
Speaker 1: it's possible, It's absolutely possible. And you know, another thing
Speaker 1: that the two Sigma founder had said was what does
Speaker 1: that mean for our role as investors? Is what he said?
Speaker 1: He said that for him and meant investing in places
Speaker 1: like education and healthcare and places where you know you
Speaker 1: can actually earn a great return on top of also
Speaker 1: creating technology that could help people at the end of
Speaker 1: the day, there's a novel thing, right, mean, he said,
Speaker 1: were really at risk here of just focusing on GDP
Speaker 1: for GDP's sake and not focusing on the things that
Speaker 1: are harder to measure, like happiness. Um, how does one
Speaker 1: from a government to an investor, how do you measure happiness?
Speaker 1: You just want to end with with how this came together,
Speaker 1: What was the idea of the genesis for this and
Speaker 1: and why this question? Well, for one thing, from the
Speaker 1: investor perspective, these people are paid to think about risk.
Speaker 1: They sit there and they do it all day long.
Speaker 1: So from that respective, you know it's something that's already
Speaker 1: on their minds. But what did surprise me at the
Speaker 1: end of this project was how much they were worried
Speaker 1: about the broader society and their role in it. Because
Speaker 1: guess what, tim at the end of the day, if
Speaker 1: people don't sort this thing, these things out, it will
Speaker 1: become a problem for companies and executives in terms of
Speaker 1: how much they're paying in taxes or how much they're
Speaker 1: having to get back to society. Um, at the end
Speaker 1: of the day, if they don't take care of it.
Speaker 1: I love that the light in your story about David's Eagles,
Speaker 1: saying I don't think people are reflecting enough, and he
Speaker 1: talks about in Japan how they think about, you know,
Speaker 1: the experience a lot. We say that, we say that
Speaker 1: a lot, but I don't know that we're thinking about
Speaker 1: it and putting it into action. Shnally, you are amazing.
Speaker 1: Selik Well Street reporter at Bloomberg News. Joining us here
Speaker 1: at our New York studios and headquarters. Check out our
Speaker 1: stories on the Bloomberg. I'll put it out on Twitter again.
Speaker 1: It is among the most read on the Bloomberg and
Speaker 1: it will be for the week overall easily. Thanks for
Speaker 1: listening to Bloomberg Business Week. Download the podcast on iTunes, SoundCloud,
Speaker 1: or Bloomberg dot com, and you can also listen to
Speaker 1: our radio show at two pm Eastern on Bloomberg Radio
Speaker 1: or watch us on YouTube. Search to Bloomberg Global News