1 00:00:01,080 --> 00:00:04,000 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you missed in History Class from how 2 00:00:04,080 --> 00:00:12,320 Speaker 1: Stuff Works dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. 3 00:00:12,360 --> 00:00:16,520 Speaker 1: I'm Holly Fry and I'm crazy C. B. Wilson. So, Tracy, 4 00:00:16,560 --> 00:00:18,040 Speaker 1: did you have sea monkeys when you were a kid. 5 00:00:18,440 --> 00:00:22,560 Speaker 1: I did not have sea monkeys personally, but when I started, well, 6 00:00:22,560 --> 00:00:25,120 Speaker 1: hang on, hang on. When I started at how Stuff Works, 7 00:00:25,120 --> 00:00:28,880 Speaker 1: which is now really almost a decade ago, you're making 8 00:00:28,920 --> 00:00:32,159 Speaker 1: the most astonished face. For some reason, we had an 9 00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:36,280 Speaker 1: office set of sea monkeys for a while. I thought, 10 00:00:36,280 --> 00:00:38,240 Speaker 1: for sure this is because of some kind of article 11 00:00:38,240 --> 00:00:40,520 Speaker 1: on the site, but I cannot find said articles, so 12 00:00:40,640 --> 00:00:43,320 Speaker 1: now I think maybe we just had sea monkeys for fun. 13 00:00:44,880 --> 00:00:46,720 Speaker 1: I had lots of batches of sea monkeys when I 14 00:00:46,760 --> 00:00:50,080 Speaker 1: was a kid, more than a few packets for purchased 15 00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:52,880 Speaker 1: throughout the years. I've been debating over getting more lately. 16 00:00:52,920 --> 00:00:55,440 Speaker 1: But uh, I had one superhardy batch of them when 17 00:00:55,480 --> 00:00:57,200 Speaker 1: I was working in a library. They lived in a 18 00:00:57,200 --> 00:00:59,560 Speaker 1: little tank on my desk, and they propagated and kept 19 00:00:59,560 --> 00:01:02,600 Speaker 1: going for two years until a cold snap got them 20 00:01:02,600 --> 00:01:05,640 Speaker 1: when the library lost um power and so there was 21 00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:07,600 Speaker 1: no heat and it kind of got very very icy 22 00:01:07,600 --> 00:01:12,160 Speaker 1: in there. But despite all those fabulous packaging cartoons featuring 23 00:01:12,200 --> 00:01:16,160 Speaker 1: tiny humanoid sea creatures having wacky fun and wearing wacky clothes. 24 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:20,000 Speaker 1: Sea monkeys are, as everybody knows, just Brian shrimp, and 25 00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:22,360 Speaker 1: they're even sometimes referred to as kind of an elaborate 26 00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:25,759 Speaker 1: hoax of marketing, uh, like a classic case of selling 27 00:01:25,800 --> 00:01:28,240 Speaker 1: a lot of sizzle with no real steak. But the 28 00:01:28,319 --> 00:01:31,840 Speaker 1: real story of sea monkeys and their inventor is actually 29 00:01:31,880 --> 00:01:36,240 Speaker 1: pretty surprising in some ways. It's kind of like, uh, 30 00:01:36,560 --> 00:01:39,560 Speaker 1: when we thought, oh, we'll talk about the people that 31 00:01:39,640 --> 00:01:42,760 Speaker 1: discovered the Verosa foca, that cute little lemur, and then 32 00:01:42,800 --> 00:01:44,800 Speaker 1: it turned out they had done some horrible things. It's 33 00:01:44,880 --> 00:01:47,600 Speaker 1: kind of similar in that regard, although it did not 34 00:01:47,640 --> 00:01:49,480 Speaker 1: come as a surprise to me this time, because I 35 00:01:49,560 --> 00:01:55,320 Speaker 1: knew you knew ahead of time and pursued it. Anyway, Yes, uh, 36 00:01:55,440 --> 00:01:58,720 Speaker 1: they are really interesting creatures to look at in my opinion, 37 00:01:58,920 --> 00:02:01,840 Speaker 1: even though they're not made king civilizations full of castles 38 00:02:01,840 --> 00:02:06,000 Speaker 1: and whatnot on your desk. I concur but I like 39 00:02:06,120 --> 00:02:10,320 Speaker 1: all of the creatures. So so we're gonna start with 40 00:02:10,440 --> 00:02:15,240 Speaker 1: the story of Harold von Brownhoot, which is the inventor 41 00:02:15,320 --> 00:02:18,760 Speaker 1: of sea monkeys. The man himself was as intriguing and 42 00:02:18,840 --> 00:02:23,000 Speaker 1: unbelievable as many of his inventions. He was born Harold 43 00:02:23,200 --> 00:02:28,560 Speaker 1: Nathan Brownhoot on March thirty one in Memphis, Tennessee, and 44 00:02:28,600 --> 00:02:30,600 Speaker 1: when he was still very young, the family moved to 45 00:02:30,639 --> 00:02:34,480 Speaker 1: New York City. Yeah, he has like a one of 46 00:02:34,480 --> 00:02:37,800 Speaker 1: those wild histories that kind of comes across as a 47 00:02:37,800 --> 00:02:40,160 Speaker 1: lot of tall tales, but a lot of it is substantiated, 48 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:43,880 Speaker 1: although there are some question marky ones. As a young man, 49 00:02:43,960 --> 00:02:47,800 Speaker 1: he actually raced motorcycles as the Green Hornet, and later 50 00:02:47,840 --> 00:02:51,120 Speaker 1: on he would transition into managing talent. So if you've 51 00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:53,280 Speaker 1: ever seen and you may have only seen the cartoon 52 00:02:53,360 --> 00:02:56,800 Speaker 1: versions like divers that jump from great heights into impossibly 53 00:02:56,800 --> 00:02:59,840 Speaker 1: shallow bodies of water, or mentalists who can read minds 54 00:02:59,840 --> 00:03:02,120 Speaker 1: of and spoons, those are the kinds of acts that 55 00:03:02,200 --> 00:03:05,919 Speaker 1: he managed, and he was really at his heart a showman. 56 00:03:07,639 --> 00:03:11,359 Speaker 1: He was also ever the novelty man, and aside from 57 00:03:11,360 --> 00:03:15,120 Speaker 1: the novelty acts that he managed, he also sold novelty 58 00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:22,360 Speaker 1: products like invisible goldfish, guaranteeing their invisibility to consumers. He 59 00:03:22,480 --> 00:03:25,720 Speaker 1: also invented X ray spects, so those glasses that were 60 00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:30,079 Speaker 1: supposed to let you see through all manner of things. Yeah, 61 00:03:30,160 --> 00:03:32,200 Speaker 1: it's funny. And all of the research that I did, 62 00:03:32,200 --> 00:03:37,200 Speaker 1: particularly some of the more modern journalism pieces, Um, they'll 63 00:03:37,200 --> 00:03:40,360 Speaker 1: talk about how everyone, every kid that bought X rayspects 64 00:03:40,400 --> 00:03:42,640 Speaker 1: was trying to look through people's clothes, but if they 65 00:03:42,640 --> 00:03:45,000 Speaker 1: were questioned, they said it was like a much more No, 66 00:03:45,160 --> 00:03:48,880 Speaker 1: I'm trying to look through walls. But I don't know. Eventually, 67 00:03:49,640 --> 00:03:53,120 Speaker 1: Von Brown Hutt owned a hundred nine patents, and those 68 00:03:53,160 --> 00:03:56,040 Speaker 1: are for all kinds of novelties and other inventions, including 69 00:03:56,080 --> 00:04:01,960 Speaker 1: bulletproof fabrics and insect observation kits. People described him as eccentric, 70 00:04:02,760 --> 00:04:06,560 Speaker 1: similar to a cartoon character come to life. They also 71 00:04:06,640 --> 00:04:09,320 Speaker 1: described him as a sweet, older gentleman who could talk 72 00:04:09,360 --> 00:04:12,160 Speaker 1: your ear off at a wedding. But his story goes 73 00:04:12,200 --> 00:04:14,800 Speaker 1: way beyond sea monkeys. And while he said to have 74 00:04:14,920 --> 00:04:18,159 Speaker 1: turned down a licensing partnership with the company because of 75 00:04:18,240 --> 00:04:21,880 Speaker 1: other products in that company's catalog that he thought were 76 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:25,799 Speaker 1: too risque, his own story actually has a pretty dark 77 00:04:25,839 --> 00:04:30,000 Speaker 1: streak running through it. But first, we're gonna talk a 78 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:32,240 Speaker 1: little bit about the creatures that made him famous in 79 00:04:32,279 --> 00:04:34,640 Speaker 1: the toy and novelty world, and before we dig into 80 00:04:34,720 --> 00:04:37,040 Speaker 1: those brandy little pets. Do you want to do a 81 00:04:37,120 --> 00:04:39,640 Speaker 1: quick word from a sponsor. Yeah, we know it's early, 82 00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:42,320 Speaker 1: but we're trying to keep a big chunk of the 83 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:46,200 Speaker 1: story together. Yeah, the next two sections are really his 84 00:04:46,279 --> 00:04:48,600 Speaker 1: two big inventions, and I want to keep those together, 85 00:04:48,760 --> 00:04:53,640 Speaker 1: So we'll be right back with those. So the exact 86 00:04:53,720 --> 00:04:57,800 Speaker 1: moment that inspired von Brown Hut to create sea monkeys 87 00:04:58,120 --> 00:05:00,600 Speaker 1: is a little bit unclear, not terribly, but there are 88 00:05:00,640 --> 00:05:03,400 Speaker 1: two different versions of the story that go around UH. 89 00:05:03,400 --> 00:05:06,880 Speaker 1: It's pretty universally accepted that this happened in nineteen fifty seven, 90 00:05:07,279 --> 00:05:09,359 Speaker 1: and in one version of the tale, he just noticed 91 00:05:09,440 --> 00:05:12,400 Speaker 1: brian shrimp in a bucket that were like part of 92 00:05:12,440 --> 00:05:17,640 Speaker 1: a uh bait bucket, and in another version he noticed 93 00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:19,640 Speaker 1: them being sold in a pet store as food for 94 00:05:19,680 --> 00:05:22,600 Speaker 1: other marine life. And the pet store story is by 95 00:05:22,640 --> 00:05:24,440 Speaker 1: far the more popular of the two. It's the one 96 00:05:24,480 --> 00:05:27,479 Speaker 1: that he told most often in his life, particularly later 97 00:05:27,520 --> 00:05:29,839 Speaker 1: in life. Any interviews that he gave which weren't a 98 00:05:29,880 --> 00:05:32,279 Speaker 1: whole lot, he always said it was a pet store. 99 00:05:33,279 --> 00:05:36,839 Speaker 1: In either case, he became completely fascinated by the idea 100 00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:41,080 Speaker 1: of Brian shrimp, and because they can naturally survive for 101 00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:44,719 Speaker 1: years and kind of a suspended animation, and while dried out, 102 00:05:45,120 --> 00:05:48,680 Speaker 1: they're easily packageable, which meant in his mind they could 103 00:05:48,680 --> 00:05:52,760 Speaker 1: be marketed and sold. Yeah. So, in nineteen sixty, Sea 104 00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:55,920 Speaker 1: Monkeys first appeared in comic book ads, although they had 105 00:05:55,920 --> 00:05:58,720 Speaker 1: not been christened with their famous name yet. In those 106 00:05:58,720 --> 00:06:01,560 Speaker 1: early ads they were marketed as Instant Life, and they 107 00:06:01,560 --> 00:06:05,839 Speaker 1: sold for a mere forty nine cents. Instant Life was 108 00:06:05,920 --> 00:06:09,280 Speaker 1: not an instant success, just did not grab the attention 109 00:06:09,320 --> 00:06:12,240 Speaker 1: of comic book readers the way he hoped that they would, 110 00:06:12,720 --> 00:06:16,279 Speaker 1: and so he put the product through a rebranding. Yeah. So, 111 00:06:16,320 --> 00:06:20,040 Speaker 1: if we have any comic book fans in our our 112 00:06:20,279 --> 00:06:23,800 Speaker 1: listener base, they might recognize the name Joe Orlando. He 113 00:06:23,880 --> 00:06:25,680 Speaker 1: was a comic book artist. He was an editor at 114 00:06:25,720 --> 00:06:29,200 Speaker 1: d C Comics, He was an associate publisher on Mad Magazine, 115 00:06:29,320 --> 00:06:31,040 Speaker 1: all at various stages of his career. He did a 116 00:06:31,080 --> 00:06:33,719 Speaker 1: lot of other really impressive things. And he was actually 117 00:06:33,800 --> 00:06:36,599 Speaker 1: the artist that was responsible for the art that accompanied 118 00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:40,240 Speaker 1: the upgraded Sea Monkey packaging. So those cartoons that we 119 00:06:40,279 --> 00:06:43,480 Speaker 1: know so well in which in many cases sparked imaginations 120 00:06:43,480 --> 00:06:47,680 Speaker 1: and lured in consumers, were his work with those cartoons 121 00:06:47,760 --> 00:06:51,560 Speaker 1: and a new name. Instant Life was relaunched as Sea 122 00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:55,719 Speaker 1: Monkeys in nineteen sixty four, and the name was inspired 123 00:06:55,760 --> 00:06:59,039 Speaker 1: by the Brian Stramp's long tale. I always wondered that, 124 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:02,799 Speaker 1: and now I know. Yeah, and now the Brian trimp 125 00:07:02,839 --> 00:07:05,160 Speaker 1: that Harold on brown Hunt had first encountered, which was 126 00:07:05,200 --> 00:07:08,279 Speaker 1: our teamius Selina, are not quite the same ones that 127 00:07:08,320 --> 00:07:11,200 Speaker 1: are sold in Sea monkey kits. Yeah. He teamed up 128 00:07:11,200 --> 00:07:14,400 Speaker 1: with a marine biologist to first figure out how to 129 00:07:14,440 --> 00:07:17,280 Speaker 1: mix the nutrients and dry form that you could add 130 00:07:17,320 --> 00:07:20,640 Speaker 1: to tap water to create the ideal environment for his 131 00:07:20,800 --> 00:07:25,200 Speaker 1: instant life. Incidentally, the medium that he created to treat 132 00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:27,800 Speaker 1: tap water and make it into the sea monkey paradise 133 00:07:27,840 --> 00:07:31,160 Speaker 1: has never been duplicated by another lab despite various attempts, 134 00:07:31,680 --> 00:07:33,960 Speaker 1: so for a long time only Harold and his wife 135 00:07:34,240 --> 00:07:38,160 Speaker 1: Yolanda knew the formula. Even so, he was always working 136 00:07:38,200 --> 00:07:42,640 Speaker 1: on improvements right until the end of his life. Yeah. 137 00:07:42,680 --> 00:07:46,600 Speaker 1: They allegedly mixed those right on their like private property, 138 00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:49,160 Speaker 1: in the barrel, and then they would distribute them in 139 00:07:49,200 --> 00:07:52,400 Speaker 1: the packets. Uh. But then after they had figured out 140 00:07:52,400 --> 00:07:56,280 Speaker 1: this sort of perfect nutrient balanced mix, he further developed 141 00:07:56,440 --> 00:08:00,240 Speaker 1: these tiny marine critters to be really hardy, so like said, 142 00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:03,560 Speaker 1: they were not the Artemius selena that he had initially encountered. 143 00:08:03,560 --> 00:08:06,760 Speaker 1: So he and that same biologist worked for years to 144 00:08:06,920 --> 00:08:10,920 Speaker 1: constantly improve the product by cross breeding different species from 145 00:08:10,920 --> 00:08:13,760 Speaker 1: the genus Artemia until they got the breed that continues 146 00:08:13,800 --> 00:08:17,800 Speaker 1: the sea monkey line today, and that's now called Artemia NEOs, 147 00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:20,040 Speaker 1: which is n y O S. And that n y 148 00:08:20,040 --> 00:08:23,560 Speaker 1: o S stands for New York Oceanic Society, and that's 149 00:08:23,560 --> 00:08:27,200 Speaker 1: the lab where this species was developed. Trans Science was 150 00:08:27,240 --> 00:08:31,480 Speaker 1: the company Von Brownhood founded to manufacture sea monkeys, and 151 00:08:31,560 --> 00:08:34,480 Speaker 1: from the early nineteen sixties on, the company was always 152 00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:38,199 Speaker 1: promoting this amazing product. What's really funny is that if 153 00:08:38,200 --> 00:08:41,000 Speaker 1: you read trade publication ads for sea monkey stock, it's 154 00:08:41,040 --> 00:08:43,920 Speaker 1: almost identical in tone to the ads that were run 155 00:08:43,960 --> 00:08:46,800 Speaker 1: in comic books for direct sales. There's a lot of 156 00:08:46,840 --> 00:08:51,520 Speaker 1: all caps for emphasis. The overall vibe is one of excitement, excitement, excitement, 157 00:08:52,240 --> 00:08:55,720 Speaker 1: come to where the money is sea monkey country, which 158 00:08:55,760 --> 00:08:59,199 Speaker 1: is the ads that went out to retailers and sounded 159 00:08:59,240 --> 00:09:03,440 Speaker 1: a lot like the adds two buyers. Yeah, it was 160 00:09:03,520 --> 00:09:05,800 Speaker 1: kind of funny, and Von brown Hut was the copyman 161 00:09:05,880 --> 00:09:10,320 Speaker 1: behind all of this very enthusiastic verbiage. He uh, it's 162 00:09:10,320 --> 00:09:14,480 Speaker 1: his copy has this sort of wonderfully vaudevillian feel to it, 163 00:09:14,760 --> 00:09:17,360 Speaker 1: so it's like part huckster and part mad scientist and 164 00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:22,679 Speaker 1: all entertainer. Initially, the brick and mortar retail market had 165 00:09:22,760 --> 00:09:26,400 Speaker 1: eluded Von Brownhoot. Just before he brought his Sea Monkeys 166 00:09:26,440 --> 00:09:30,800 Speaker 1: to market, another company, Whammo, had tried an instant fish 167 00:09:30,880 --> 00:09:34,080 Speaker 1: toy as well, and that had not gone very well 168 00:09:34,120 --> 00:09:36,760 Speaker 1: because the product did not work, and that made the 169 00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:42,040 Speaker 1: entire retail arena petrified of doing anything similar. But once 170 00:09:42,080 --> 00:09:46,240 Speaker 1: Sea Monkeys established themselves through direct sales, retailers started to 171 00:09:46,280 --> 00:09:48,640 Speaker 1: come around and wanted to have them in stores also, 172 00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:52,600 Speaker 1: and that at that point they really cemented Sea monkeys 173 00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:54,880 Speaker 1: in like the history of Kitch in the History of 174 00:09:54,880 --> 00:09:59,200 Speaker 1: toys In there was an attempt to bring Sea Monkeys 175 00:09:59,240 --> 00:10:02,360 Speaker 1: to television and it was written by Howie Mandel and 176 00:10:02,520 --> 00:10:05,760 Speaker 1: directed primarily by Sean McNamara, who would go on to 177 00:10:05,800 --> 00:10:09,120 Speaker 1: direct lots of shows for the Disney Channel. The show 178 00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:14,679 Speaker 1: was pretty abysmal, and it only lasted eleven episodes before cancelation. Yeah, 179 00:10:14,760 --> 00:10:17,120 Speaker 1: if you just want to like torture yourself for a 180 00:10:17,120 --> 00:10:20,720 Speaker 1: few minutes. You can find a lot of those on YouTube. Uh, 181 00:10:20,760 --> 00:10:25,000 Speaker 1: they're awful, They're really really awful. On October twenty nine, 182 00:10:26,200 --> 00:10:29,640 Speaker 1: more than four hundred million sea monkey eggs went into space. 183 00:10:30,160 --> 00:10:32,160 Speaker 1: They were on the same mission that made John Glenn 184 00:10:32,160 --> 00:10:35,360 Speaker 1: officially the oldest man to fly in space. So that 185 00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:38,280 Speaker 1: was the nine day STS ninety five mission aboard the 186 00:10:38,320 --> 00:10:41,680 Speaker 1: Space Shuttle Discovery. And during that mission, the tiny Brian 187 00:10:41,760 --> 00:10:44,920 Speaker 1: shrimp were exposed to radiation zero G and of course 188 00:10:44,960 --> 00:10:48,640 Speaker 1: the violent force of re entry. They were hatched eight 189 00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:51,520 Speaker 1: weeks after they came back to Earth and seemed completely 190 00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:55,080 Speaker 1: unaffected by all of that time away from Terra Firma 191 00:10:55,160 --> 00:10:58,160 Speaker 1: and the things that happened while they were in space. Yeah, 192 00:10:58,280 --> 00:11:00,720 Speaker 1: so they're it was kind of a fun will experiment. 193 00:11:00,800 --> 00:11:02,360 Speaker 1: It's that's one of those things that gets taught a 194 00:11:02,360 --> 00:11:06,360 Speaker 1: lot in elementary school classrooms when they're talking about sea 195 00:11:06,400 --> 00:11:09,679 Speaker 1: life and suspended animation. Uh. And the next thing we're 196 00:11:09,679 --> 00:11:12,320 Speaker 1: going to talk about is a very different type of 197 00:11:12,520 --> 00:11:16,240 Speaker 1: invention that Von Brown Hutt created and it was absolutely 198 00:11:16,320 --> 00:11:19,240 Speaker 1: not a novelty. It was a weapon called the Kyoga 199 00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:22,719 Speaker 1: Agent M five and the Kioga, which was marketed as 200 00:11:22,800 --> 00:11:26,600 Speaker 1: the Steel Cobra was intended, according to advertising, to be 201 00:11:26,640 --> 00:11:29,000 Speaker 1: a concealed weapon that you could deploy in the event 202 00:11:29,040 --> 00:11:31,280 Speaker 1: that you found yourself face to face with a mugger 203 00:11:31,440 --> 00:11:35,600 Speaker 1: or other attacker. The ad copy in magazine advertisements read 204 00:11:36,120 --> 00:11:40,960 Speaker 1: Kyoga the Steel Cobra is an automatic magnetically triggered steel 205 00:11:41,080 --> 00:11:44,520 Speaker 1: whip that is armed with a heavy caliber striking tip. 206 00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:48,200 Speaker 1: When every second counts, This instant action feature frees you 207 00:11:48,360 --> 00:11:51,000 Speaker 1: from the need to first locate a push button trigger 208 00:11:51,040 --> 00:11:53,720 Speaker 1: in order to fire it at your attacker. Because it 209 00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:57,280 Speaker 1: goes off by human reflex action alone. It always works 210 00:11:57,440 --> 00:12:01,800 Speaker 1: when needed. And there's actually a un of copy in 211 00:12:02,200 --> 00:12:04,840 Speaker 1: those ads. It's very wordy and it goes on to 212 00:12:04,920 --> 00:12:07,960 Speaker 1: extol the virtues of this small weapon, promising that the 213 00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:11,520 Speaker 1: steel coils can make contact through a leather jacket. It 214 00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:13,840 Speaker 1: also promises that a blow to the header jaw can 215 00:12:13,920 --> 00:12:17,880 Speaker 1: knock an attack her out cold. Basically, this was a 216 00:12:17,960 --> 00:12:22,400 Speaker 1: small trigger action, spring loaded baton that could be purchased 217 00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:27,439 Speaker 1: for plus postage in the early days. Yeah, and we'll 218 00:12:27,480 --> 00:12:29,920 Speaker 1: actually share a link to one of the ads for 219 00:12:30,040 --> 00:12:34,200 Speaker 1: it offering this deal. And early on in the life 220 00:12:34,240 --> 00:12:37,200 Speaker 1: of the Ka Yoga, Mr Brown Hunt was actually arrested 221 00:12:37,240 --> 00:12:40,160 Speaker 1: on illegal weapons charges when he tried to pass through 222 00:12:40,240 --> 00:12:42,680 Speaker 1: LaGuardia Airport security with a half dozen of them in 223 00:12:42,720 --> 00:12:45,520 Speaker 1: his briefcase, and he got out of the charges by saying, no, 224 00:12:45,640 --> 00:12:49,040 Speaker 1: this is not a weapon that's ever been listed as forbidden. 225 00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:53,480 Speaker 1: But it's an interesting side note to the story. In 226 00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:56,880 Speaker 1: Night One, Burt Reynolds used a ki yoga in the 227 00:12:56,920 --> 00:13:00,280 Speaker 1: film Sharky's Machine, and even though the movie me was 228 00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:03,120 Speaker 1: kind of a flop, it basically was a great advertisement 229 00:13:03,200 --> 00:13:07,280 Speaker 1: for this steel whip. Over years, prices for the kyoga 230 00:13:07,320 --> 00:13:11,440 Speaker 1: went up. It eventually retailed for fift and the advertising 231 00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:15,280 Speaker 1: shifted from that kind of aimed at women like this 232 00:13:15,360 --> 00:13:17,880 Speaker 1: is a great self defense tool to if you need 233 00:13:17,920 --> 00:13:21,480 Speaker 1: a gun but can't get a license. That was actual 234 00:13:21,520 --> 00:13:25,000 Speaker 1: copy that was used in their later advertising. And this 235 00:13:25,040 --> 00:13:26,600 Speaker 1: is going to lead us to kind of the dark 236 00:13:26,640 --> 00:13:29,000 Speaker 1: part of the story. So before we get to that, 237 00:13:29,800 --> 00:13:33,199 Speaker 1: let's have a word from a sponsor. So getting back 238 00:13:33,280 --> 00:13:37,800 Speaker 1: to uh Von Brown Huts and the kyoga, and we're 239 00:13:37,800 --> 00:13:40,040 Speaker 1: getting into kind of more modern history. But because this 240 00:13:40,360 --> 00:13:44,080 Speaker 1: person sort of fame and notoriety cemented a little bit 241 00:13:44,120 --> 00:13:47,520 Speaker 1: earlier in the century, he becomes a pretty fascinating figure, 242 00:13:47,520 --> 00:13:49,960 Speaker 1: and even though a lot of this revealed fairly recently, 243 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:52,679 Speaker 1: it's pretty important to the story. So in the late 244 00:13:52,760 --> 00:13:57,480 Speaker 1: nineteen eighties, the kyoga catalyzed basically what became a public 245 00:13:57,520 --> 00:14:01,720 Speaker 1: image calamity for von Brown hut So. At the time, 246 00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:05,480 Speaker 1: the leader of the white supremacist group the Aryan Nations, 247 00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:08,480 Speaker 1: whose name was Richard Butler, was in trouble with the law. 248 00:14:09,040 --> 00:14:12,080 Speaker 1: He had been indicted by a federal Grand Sir jury 249 00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:18,640 Speaker 1: for seditious conspiracy to overthrow the government by violence. And 250 00:14:18,840 --> 00:14:22,160 Speaker 1: in a fundraising letter to his fellow white supremacists that 251 00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:25,920 Speaker 1: Butler sent out around this time, he included a brochure 252 00:14:26,080 --> 00:14:30,040 Speaker 1: for the kyoga. He also included messaging that the inventor 253 00:14:30,080 --> 00:14:33,240 Speaker 1: and manufacturer of the weapon had pledged twenty five dollars 254 00:14:33,320 --> 00:14:36,880 Speaker 1: to his defense fund against the federal charges for every 255 00:14:36,960 --> 00:14:41,360 Speaker 1: kyoga that was sold. Unsurprisingly, it did not take long 256 00:14:41,480 --> 00:14:44,080 Speaker 1: for journalists to get a hold of this information had 257 00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:46,640 Speaker 1: looked deeper into it, and the news was not great 258 00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:51,840 Speaker 1: Butler uh the sort of the first wave of problems 259 00:14:51,920 --> 00:14:55,560 Speaker 1: was when Butler, again head of the Arian Nations, confirmed 260 00:14:55,640 --> 00:14:58,120 Speaker 1: to the Spokesman Review, which is a paper out of Spokane, 261 00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:01,480 Speaker 1: Washington that yes, he von Brownhoot were friends, they had 262 00:15:01,480 --> 00:15:03,560 Speaker 1: known each other a long time, and that the inventor 263 00:15:03,640 --> 00:15:06,720 Speaker 1: had supported the Area Nations for quite a while. The 264 00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:10,960 Speaker 1: Washington Post ran a story soon after exposing even more 265 00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:15,480 Speaker 1: affiliations with hate groups. Not only was Harold von Brownhoot 266 00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:19,080 Speaker 1: a frequent attendee of the Arian Nations World Congress, he 267 00:15:19,200 --> 00:15:22,040 Speaker 1: also had ties to the Ku Klux Klan and had 268 00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:26,000 Speaker 1: helped an Ohio branch of the KKK purchased firearms. He 269 00:15:26,160 --> 00:15:30,320 Speaker 1: also published his own anti Zionist newsletter full of rather 270 00:15:30,680 --> 00:15:35,640 Speaker 1: terrifying and shocking rhetoric. It was I read a few 271 00:15:35,640 --> 00:15:38,880 Speaker 1: snippets of it, and I sent an instant message to Tracy, 272 00:15:38,960 --> 00:15:41,160 Speaker 1: and I was like, I don't want to say any 273 00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:43,640 Speaker 1: of these words on the air while we record. They're 274 00:15:43,680 --> 00:15:47,400 Speaker 1: just they're exactly the horrifying things you would imagine, perhaps 275 00:15:47,400 --> 00:15:50,680 Speaker 1: more graphic. Uh. In an odd snippet of detail, it 276 00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:53,880 Speaker 1: also came out that while attending these Area Nations gatherings, 277 00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:56,920 Speaker 1: Von brown Hutt often wore a clerical collar and claimed 278 00:15:56,960 --> 00:15:59,560 Speaker 1: to be an ordained priest. I was not able to 279 00:15:59,640 --> 00:16:03,560 Speaker 1: hunt down any confirmation that he was ever actually ordained 280 00:16:03,600 --> 00:16:05,120 Speaker 1: he may or may not have been, but I just 281 00:16:05,160 --> 00:16:09,160 Speaker 1: thought it was odd that he only lived that image 282 00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:13,640 Speaker 1: when he was sort of involved in these groups. So 283 00:16:13,680 --> 00:16:16,480 Speaker 1: the real irony in the Washington Post article was that 284 00:16:16,520 --> 00:16:20,440 Speaker 1: it also outed Von brown Hut as a Jew in 285 00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:23,920 Speaker 1: a completely bizarre twist. It appeared that a major funder 286 00:16:23,960 --> 00:16:27,760 Speaker 1: and friend of the anti Semitist movement was indeed Jewish 287 00:16:27,800 --> 00:16:31,560 Speaker 1: at least by birth, according to multiple friends of the 288 00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:37,560 Speaker 1: brown Hut family, and you would think that this would 289 00:16:37,640 --> 00:16:40,040 Speaker 1: mean that the Area Nations would want to sever ties 290 00:16:40,360 --> 00:16:43,280 Speaker 1: with him. But despite this revelation, he was still welcome 291 00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:48,520 Speaker 1: with the supremacist group. Most likely most people theorized due 292 00:16:48,520 --> 00:16:50,640 Speaker 1: to the funding that he continued to donate. He had 293 00:16:50,640 --> 00:16:53,880 Speaker 1: deep pockets and he gave them a lot of money. 294 00:16:53,920 --> 00:16:57,080 Speaker 1: In fact, he even ended up presiding over the funeral 295 00:16:57,200 --> 00:17:00,520 Speaker 1: of Richard Butler's wife long after this story broke, wearing, 296 00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:04,680 Speaker 1: of course, his full clerical ensemble. Throughout all the coverage 297 00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:08,359 Speaker 1: and the press about these allegations and plenty of people 298 00:17:08,440 --> 00:17:12,600 Speaker 1: corroborating them and photographs of him posing in his priestly 299 00:17:12,680 --> 00:17:15,920 Speaker 1: garb in front of a Nazi flag, von brown Huot 300 00:17:15,960 --> 00:17:19,679 Speaker 1: denied any racism or anti Semitism. But then in the 301 00:17:19,760 --> 00:17:22,240 Speaker 1: late nineteen eighties, he gave an interview to the Seattle 302 00:17:22,280 --> 00:17:25,880 Speaker 1: Times in which he openly made racial slurs against Korean 303 00:17:25,960 --> 00:17:28,480 Speaker 1: shop owners and then said, you know what side I'm on, 304 00:17:28,880 --> 00:17:32,000 Speaker 1: I don't make any bones about it. However, from that 305 00:17:32,080 --> 00:17:34,920 Speaker 1: point on, Von brown Hut basically refused to answer any 306 00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:38,600 Speaker 1: questions from reporters about his heritage or his stance on 307 00:17:38,680 --> 00:17:42,359 Speaker 1: racism or neo Nazism. It's also at about this time 308 00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:45,040 Speaker 1: that he left New York and moved to Maryland to 309 00:17:45,080 --> 00:17:49,240 Speaker 1: set up an animal preserve called the Montrose Wildlife Conservation 310 00:17:49,359 --> 00:17:54,000 Speaker 1: on a seventy acre property. Yeah. He uh. It's sort 311 00:17:54,040 --> 00:18:00,200 Speaker 1: of one of those weird contradictory image puzzle pieces that he, 312 00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:02,800 Speaker 1: you know, was involved with all these really horrible things. 313 00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:05,680 Speaker 1: He also really loved animals in nature and wanted to 314 00:18:05,760 --> 00:18:08,800 Speaker 1: like study and preserve them. It's very hard for me 315 00:18:08,840 --> 00:18:12,720 Speaker 1: to get my head around all of these contradictory pieces. 316 00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:15,760 Speaker 1: A lot easier to think of people who have those 317 00:18:15,760 --> 00:18:20,680 Speaker 1: sorts of views as like mustache twirling villains. Yeah. So 318 00:18:20,720 --> 00:18:22,680 Speaker 1: then when you're like, oh, but he was really quite 319 00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:26,920 Speaker 1: kind to animals, it's like well that it almost makes 320 00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:30,119 Speaker 1: it more distasteful because you can't kind of compartmentalize it 321 00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:33,160 Speaker 1: super easily. And like we said, a lot of people 322 00:18:33,160 --> 00:18:36,800 Speaker 1: described him as just this charming, eccentric, sweet cookie old 323 00:18:36,800 --> 00:18:39,000 Speaker 1: man as he got older. So it's it's a very 324 00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:42,960 Speaker 1: complex puzzle. Uh. In two thousand, a Los Angeles Times 325 00:18:43,080 --> 00:18:45,439 Speaker 1: article about von Brown Hunt relaid the news that there 326 00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:48,720 Speaker 1: have been two different distributors that had annulled their SeaMonkey 327 00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:52,280 Speaker 1: licenses because of their unease with Von Brown Hunt's personal politics. 328 00:18:53,119 --> 00:18:56,720 Speaker 1: First was Laray Limited. There's kind of a he said, 329 00:18:56,800 --> 00:18:59,760 Speaker 1: she said going on with this one, Von brown Hut 330 00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:03,400 Speaker 1: aimed that he wanted to end the business partnership because 331 00:19:03,600 --> 00:19:07,240 Speaker 1: Laramie was neglecting sea monkeys in favor of bigger sellers 332 00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:10,879 Speaker 1: like the super Soaker water gun. Al Davis, who was 333 00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:13,240 Speaker 1: an e v P at Laramie at the time, told 334 00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:17,560 Speaker 1: a much different story. He claimed that after hearing about 335 00:19:17,680 --> 00:19:20,720 Speaker 1: about Von Brown Hutt giving money to hate groups, he 336 00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:24,120 Speaker 1: called the inventor on it. So, according to the Davis 337 00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:27,240 Speaker 1: version of the story, Harold told him Hitler wasn't a 338 00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:31,000 Speaker 1: bad guy, he just received bad press. Yeah, that's a 339 00:19:31,080 --> 00:19:33,159 Speaker 1: quote that gets used in a lot of different stories. 340 00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:35,800 Speaker 1: That's the first story that I saw it in, or 341 00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:37,399 Speaker 1: the earliest story that I saw it in, But it 342 00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:40,000 Speaker 1: gets reused a lot because it is in terms of 343 00:19:40,040 --> 00:19:42,280 Speaker 1: sound bite, like you kind of can't ask for a 344 00:19:42,320 --> 00:19:47,520 Speaker 1: better sensationalist quote. Another licensing mentor in the nineties nineties 345 00:19:47,560 --> 00:19:50,920 Speaker 1: involved the company Big Fund, which specializes in novelty key chains, 346 00:19:50,960 --> 00:19:54,359 Speaker 1: and they were working on like this little key chain 347 00:19:54,440 --> 00:19:56,440 Speaker 1: mini aquarium that you could put like one or two 348 00:19:56,440 --> 00:19:58,640 Speaker 1: sea monkeys in and carry them with you throughout the day. 349 00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:02,480 Speaker 1: And initially Von brown Hutt assured Big Fund president Alan 350 00:20:02,560 --> 00:20:05,399 Speaker 1: Dorfman that all of that bad press about him and 351 00:20:05,480 --> 00:20:08,800 Speaker 1: his ties to the Arian Nations was really just rumormongering 352 00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:11,200 Speaker 1: that was started by an enemy that he was having 353 00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:15,879 Speaker 1: legal issues with, and initially Dorfman accepted that explanation until 354 00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:18,160 Speaker 1: a few months down the road there was a New 355 00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:21,760 Speaker 1: York Times article that ran that identified the sea monkey 356 00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:26,560 Speaker 1: inventor as a speaker at that year's arians Aryan Nations Congress, 357 00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:30,520 Speaker 1: and so pretty quickly thereafter, the business arrangement was severed. 358 00:20:31,240 --> 00:20:34,919 Speaker 1: According to George c Atamian, who was an executive with 359 00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:39,280 Speaker 1: Educational Insights, when his company bought the license to sea 360 00:20:39,320 --> 00:20:42,479 Speaker 1: monkeys in the mid nineteen nineties. Von brown Hut had 361 00:20:42,560 --> 00:20:47,000 Speaker 1: agreed to cease all of these public political activities when 362 00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:49,679 Speaker 1: some are brought. The l A Times reporter who broke 363 00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:53,040 Speaker 1: the story of the business fallout because of von brown 364 00:20:53,119 --> 00:20:56,919 Speaker 1: Hut's political views, he pushed Atamian on the issue of 365 00:20:56,960 --> 00:21:01,120 Speaker 1: the inventor's involvement with the white supremacist move it. At 366 00:21:01,119 --> 00:21:04,400 Speaker 1: that point, the Educational Insights executive admitted that he had 367 00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:08,080 Speaker 1: never personally confronted von brown Hut, but that he would. 368 00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:12,159 Speaker 1: Attaian contact had brought a couple of weeks later, and 369 00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:15,399 Speaker 1: he said that he had confronted Von brown Hut and 370 00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:18,520 Speaker 1: that von brown Hut had denied his involvement, and that 371 00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:22,280 Speaker 1: in his mind that was all that was needed. Yeah, 372 00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:24,840 Speaker 1: there's a sort of a more complex it gets a 373 00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:27,560 Speaker 1: little soap opera element to that, and it's all in 374 00:21:27,640 --> 00:21:29,840 Speaker 1: the l A Times article, which will link to you. 375 00:21:30,280 --> 00:21:33,159 Speaker 1: There was actually one of his anti Zionist newsletters that 376 00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:39,640 Speaker 1: this reporter handed Attamian and another executive involved and said like, uh, 377 00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:42,000 Speaker 1: this is you know his work, this is the newsletter, 378 00:21:42,040 --> 00:21:44,480 Speaker 1: this is the stuff he's spreading, Like, are you really 379 00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:47,639 Speaker 1: comfortable working with this person, and they both independently are 380 00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:51,280 Speaker 1: said to have asked von brown Hut, did you write this? 381 00:21:51,359 --> 00:21:53,760 Speaker 1: And he said no, and the one guy said to him. 382 00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:58,080 Speaker 1: The evidence that made it completely believable when von brown 383 00:21:58,119 --> 00:22:00,840 Speaker 1: Hut denied his involvement was no, this is a man 384 00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:02,880 Speaker 1: who loves copy and he loves writing, and he really 385 00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:06,679 Speaker 1: prides himself and this newsletter is terribly written. So to me, 386 00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:09,080 Speaker 1: that's the evidence. It's almost like they're in a bit 387 00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:12,320 Speaker 1: of denial at that point about the person they're working with. 388 00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:16,240 Speaker 1: But UH. In two thousands three, Harold von brown Hutt 389 00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:19,680 Speaker 1: died after falling his home, and since that time there 390 00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:22,040 Speaker 1: has been sort of a constant stream of various legal 391 00:22:22,080 --> 00:22:24,960 Speaker 1: battles around Sea Monkeys and who has the rights and 392 00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:27,960 Speaker 1: whether they're paying Von brown Hut's widow her royalties, etcetera. 393 00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:32,119 Speaker 1: Nothing outside of like usual business jockeying. But that's just 394 00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:37,320 Speaker 1: what's going on with the company. After about it seems 395 00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:40,600 Speaker 1: that von brown Hutt kept his word to Atavian and 396 00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:44,359 Speaker 1: the rest of the leadership of Education Insights. UH. He 397 00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:49,480 Speaker 1: either seized his ties to the Aryan Nations or started 398 00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:54,360 Speaker 1: hiding his involvement the Anti Defamation League, who had amassed 399 00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:58,320 Speaker 1: a substantial dossier on his connections to hate groups up 400 00:22:58,359 --> 00:23:01,280 Speaker 1: to that point, doesn't really have anything else the track 401 00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:04,879 Speaker 1: after that. Yes, so he it does seem like he 402 00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:07,840 Speaker 1: kept his word, uh in that business deal where he 403 00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:11,040 Speaker 1: said he would no longer publicly be involved in any 404 00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:15,320 Speaker 1: of these hate groups. But Sea Monkey sales have made 405 00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:18,800 Speaker 1: Transcience and their various affiliates and licensees many millions of 406 00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:23,119 Speaker 1: dollars throughout the years, and National Sea Monkey Day is 407 00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:26,040 Speaker 1: May of the sixteenth, although we don't know where that started. 408 00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:31,800 Speaker 1: Is that like their own marketing thing or we do 409 00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:35,560 Speaker 1: not know? Uh. I was looking at one of those 410 00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:39,520 Speaker 1: like you know, wacky holiday each day websites where they 411 00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:41,760 Speaker 1: tracked these sorts of things, and they're like, we can't 412 00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:44,119 Speaker 1: figure out where this originated. If it was marketing or 413 00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:46,359 Speaker 1: just like a super fan that sort of spread the 414 00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:48,400 Speaker 1: word kind of like how talk like a Pirate Day 415 00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:51,560 Speaker 1: grew organically. They don't know if this was a similar 416 00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:53,359 Speaker 1: thing where it was like a fan group that started 417 00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:55,480 Speaker 1: it and it just kind of became accepted without anyone 418 00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:59,520 Speaker 1: questioning it. So that's a stupid Sea Monkey Day Number one. 419 00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:03,360 Speaker 1: I think if this were going on now, there would 420 00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:08,119 Speaker 1: not be any Oh, I will just stop having ties 421 00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:13,359 Speaker 1: to these white supremacy organizations like I think the uh 422 00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:16,720 Speaker 1: bad Press and fewer are on the part of the 423 00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:21,800 Speaker 1: internet would not let that stand. Yeah. I had a 424 00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:24,560 Speaker 1: similar thought while I was researching this, like, there's just 425 00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:29,159 Speaker 1: no way one he couldn't the odds of him having 426 00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:31,680 Speaker 1: been able to be involved in these sorts of activities 427 00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:34,760 Speaker 1: for so long without anybody realizing it or calling him 428 00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:37,720 Speaker 1: on it, although there were allegedly rumors throughout the toy 429 00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:40,160 Speaker 1: industry about him leading up to that, but there wasn't 430 00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:44,480 Speaker 1: any evidence. I guess that people knew it just wouldn't happen. 431 00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:46,960 Speaker 1: They would be outed so much more quickly and so 432 00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:50,160 Speaker 1: vocally and so publicly through social media that I think 433 00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:52,200 Speaker 1: it would be a lot different if this all went 434 00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:57,280 Speaker 1: down today. I also had no idea until uh I 435 00:24:57,359 --> 00:25:00,520 Speaker 1: got this outline from you, basically, which is kind of 436 00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:05,359 Speaker 1: weird because I feel like I know so many um like, 437 00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:09,119 Speaker 1: there are so many kind of urban legends about you know, 438 00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:13,040 Speaker 1: so and so CEO of this organization is a racist 439 00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:16,879 Speaker 1: and it's not actually a true thing, right, And in 440 00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:19,840 Speaker 1: this case where he really was having direct involvement with 441 00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:23,000 Speaker 1: all these white supremacist organizations. I had never heard anything 442 00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:27,840 Speaker 1: about it until this episode. Yeah, that l a Times 443 00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:31,240 Speaker 1: article which is a really good read um that we referenced, 444 00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:34,160 Speaker 1: referenced a couple of times. He even mentions at the beginning, like, oh, 445 00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:37,439 Speaker 1: I thought I was doing kind of a fluff piece 446 00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:42,199 Speaker 1: about nostalgia toys and you know, sort of kitch in 447 00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:44,520 Speaker 1: the modern era, and how there's this new wave of 448 00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:47,040 Speaker 1: interest in toys from the fifties and sixties and then 449 00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:50,320 Speaker 1: with minimal digging, and like he reached out to the 450 00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:53,439 Speaker 1: Anti Defamation League after he started hearing these things, and 451 00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:56,879 Speaker 1: they sent him a copy of this huge dossier that 452 00:25:56,920 --> 00:25:58,359 Speaker 1: they had a math. He was like, this is a 453 00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:01,880 Speaker 1: very different article than I started writing. Uh, we don't 454 00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:05,679 Speaker 1: know what that's like at all. Yeah, Yeah, it's a 455 00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:09,240 Speaker 1: it's so sort of mind blowing to me. This again, 456 00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:12,520 Speaker 1: it's the disparity of his image of being this sweet, 457 00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:16,080 Speaker 1: wacky guy, like a nutty inventor and a a little 458 00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:19,199 Speaker 1: bit of a flam flam man in some ways, and 459 00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:21,439 Speaker 1: then also being part of this just horrific thing and 460 00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:23,480 Speaker 1: that he was Jewish and part of all of this 461 00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:25,760 Speaker 1: is really hard for me to get my brain around. 462 00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:30,440 Speaker 1: But he is deceased, so no one can ask him, 463 00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:32,359 Speaker 1: and if he weren't, he probably would not want to 464 00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:34,760 Speaker 1: answer any of those questions anyway. Do you know if 465 00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:37,879 Speaker 1: his widow is still living. She is she was involved 466 00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:40,920 Speaker 1: in a legal action as recently is about e eleven 467 00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:44,879 Speaker 1: or twelve months ago, but she also will not answer 468 00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:47,880 Speaker 1: any questions about his background or his political views. So 469 00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:53,080 Speaker 1: it's pretty much all lockdown on all such discussion. It's 470 00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:56,880 Speaker 1: fascinating stuff. In other news, I have listener mail which 471 00:26:56,920 --> 00:26:59,440 Speaker 1: is not about white supremises. I was going to say, please, 472 00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:04,480 Speaker 1: don't all about white supremacy. It is related to UH 473 00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:07,159 Speaker 1: various namings of people that actually have two pieces of 474 00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:11,040 Speaker 1: listener man which are corrections to UH terminology that we used. 475 00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:14,560 Speaker 1: So the first one is from our listener Fancy. I 476 00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:17,880 Speaker 1: can't even describe how much I absolutely love that name. 477 00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:20,360 Speaker 1: Uh and she says, hi, Alli and Tracy. I enjoy 478 00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:22,280 Speaker 1: the podcast, but the use of a misnomer in the 479 00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:25,280 Speaker 1: recent Henry Hudson two part episode spurred me to send 480 00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:28,240 Speaker 1: this email of caution. In Henry Hudson Part two, you 481 00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:31,359 Speaker 1: discussed the ill fated sixteen ten to sixteen eleven voyage 482 00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:34,200 Speaker 1: of the Discovery, and you're repeatedly referred to Hudson's and 483 00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:36,879 Speaker 1: the crew's interactions with the local people around Hudson and 484 00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:40,080 Speaker 1: James Bays as being with Native Americans, and that's an 485 00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:43,960 Speaker 1: inaccurate term by local Canadian standards. Use of this term, 486 00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:47,919 Speaker 1: among others, gives rise to certain sensitivities in Canada. It 487 00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:50,359 Speaker 1: may be written by historians that we are referred to 488 00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:54,840 Speaker 1: as Indians are Native Americans, but both terms have their issues. Indians, 489 00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:57,400 Speaker 1: though still the legal term used in Canada, is now 490 00:27:57,440 --> 00:28:01,200 Speaker 1: a rather noticeable misnomer, which obviously now refers to people's 491 00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:04,280 Speaker 1: from India and Native Americans, doesn't suit those of us 492 00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:08,120 Speaker 1: with ancestral ties to Canada's indigenous peoples. Uh. And there 493 00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:11,000 Speaker 1: are growing social connotations to the word native, which can 494 00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:13,919 Speaker 1: include more than indigenous people, i e. It can be 495 00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:17,199 Speaker 1: applied to anyone born in a location for a variety 496 00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:19,920 Speaker 1: of reasons. The most common and accepted term to generally 497 00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:23,480 Speaker 1: refer to people's in questions is First Nations peoples, in 498 00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:25,640 Speaker 1: order to make it clear that what is being discussed 499 00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:28,360 Speaker 1: is a grouping distinct from the Inuit or the Metties, 500 00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:31,920 Speaker 1: the two other groupings that make up Canada's indigenous peoples. 501 00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:34,280 Speaker 1: This email may seem like a pedantic point, However, it 502 00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:36,919 Speaker 1: will benefit listeners to understand that certain terms and labels 503 00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:40,680 Speaker 1: come loaded with baggage in Canada, which can lead to misunderstandings. 504 00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:44,280 Speaker 1: This doesn't seem pedantic to me because this is a 505 00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:47,120 Speaker 1: very specific thing that like, I would not have known. 506 00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:49,520 Speaker 1: I have heard the term First Nations people's, but I 507 00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:53,760 Speaker 1: did not realize there was that divide in preference between 508 00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:57,000 Speaker 1: Native American which is usually used in the US. Yeah, 509 00:28:57,320 --> 00:28:59,840 Speaker 1: so so this is good info. Yeah, I would say 510 00:28:59,840 --> 00:29:03,520 Speaker 1: this is this is exactly the kind of correction that 511 00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:06,800 Speaker 1: we want because you and it's important to both of 512 00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:09,320 Speaker 1: us that we use the right terminology for people and 513 00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:12,040 Speaker 1: that we use the terminology that's the most respectful of 514 00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:16,040 Speaker 1: the people that we are talking about exactly. And while 515 00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:18,440 Speaker 1: we do our best, sometimes we're gonna mess that up. 516 00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:22,120 Speaker 1: And so learning the right way. I would much rather 517 00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:25,520 Speaker 1: learn the right way than to continue to be inadvertently 518 00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:29,520 Speaker 1: ignorant and say things that are potentially offensive. So, uh, yeah, 519 00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:33,280 Speaker 1: that that does not go into the annoying pedantry column, 520 00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:36,240 Speaker 1: not at um Like that's not at all like when 521 00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:39,000 Speaker 1: somebody argues with us about the dictionary definition of the word, 522 00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:44,560 Speaker 1: when the dictionary agrees with us, like, yeah, this is 523 00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:47,239 Speaker 1: the correction that we want to hear too, so we 524 00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:50,680 Speaker 1: can be better. Yes, and Fancy signs off as a 525 00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:53,160 Speaker 1: nitpicking First Nations Canadian. I do not see here that 526 00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:55,440 Speaker 1: way at all. That's exactly stuff we need to learn. 527 00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:58,040 Speaker 1: And now, so thank you because that's great insight that 528 00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:00,920 Speaker 1: I just did not ever come a cross, so I'm 529 00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:03,520 Speaker 1: glad to have it now. The other one, uh, is 530 00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:05,600 Speaker 1: sort of similar in vain. It comes from our listeners, 531 00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:10,400 Speaker 1: Sina uh, and she loves to listen to the show 532 00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:12,600 Speaker 1: on her commute, and she says, I enjoyed your episode 533 00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:15,200 Speaker 1: on the Verree Brothers. I grew up in Botswana and 534 00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:17,120 Speaker 1: just wanted to make a couple of corrections for you. 535 00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:20,480 Speaker 1: A person from Botswana is called a Matswana, and the 536 00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:24,360 Speaker 1: plural of that is Batswana, so that's I'm maybe pronouncing 537 00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:27,800 Speaker 1: it incorrectly, but it's a B a T, not a bot. Also, 538 00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:31,600 Speaker 1: the capital city of Gabarone is pronounced more like heborn 539 00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:34,280 Speaker 1: a with a guttural G. And the accident on the 540 00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:38,440 Speaker 1: final e. So I'm guessing Gaborna and I may be 541 00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:41,200 Speaker 1: still butchering that, but I'm trying my hardest. No way 542 00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:43,320 Speaker 1: you could have known either of those things, but now 543 00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:45,560 Speaker 1: you do exactly the same situation. We are glad to 544 00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:47,720 Speaker 1: have this knowledge. It was nice to hear a little 545 00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:50,280 Speaker 1: bit about Botswana in the podcast, since most people don't 546 00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:52,720 Speaker 1: even know it exists. I moved to the US in 547 00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:56,680 Speaker 1: and so I missed the repatriation of the stolen Matswana 548 00:30:56,720 --> 00:30:59,320 Speaker 1: man's body, and in fact had not heard of it 549 00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:02,880 Speaker 1: until You're casts uh. You also talked about snow globes 550 00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:05,080 Speaker 1: in the podcast, and I chuckled it that several years 551 00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:07,040 Speaker 1: ago my husband and I found a cute snow globe 552 00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:09,600 Speaker 1: in a Christmas store and decided we would start collecting 553 00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:13,240 Speaker 1: snow globes. Shortly thereafter, though, we became fairly enthused about 554 00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:16,640 Speaker 1: the fair trade and buying local concepts, and to our chagrin, 555 00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:19,840 Speaker 1: all snow globes are apparently made in China. Every time 556 00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:21,400 Speaker 1: I see a snow globe now, I run over and 557 00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:23,480 Speaker 1: pick it up, and invariably it has made in China. 558 00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:25,880 Speaker 1: On the bottom, I have yet to find a domestically 559 00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:28,320 Speaker 1: made snow globe or a fair trade one for that matter. 560 00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:30,640 Speaker 1: So if I do, we will resume our collection, but 561 00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:33,160 Speaker 1: for now we have stopped at one. Uh, thank you 562 00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:35,760 Speaker 1: so much, Sina. That's similarly, I would never have come 563 00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:40,040 Speaker 1: across that information, So it is super good to have 564 00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:44,000 Speaker 1: and now we know learning is half Knowing is half 565 00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:48,000 Speaker 1: the battle. I also, Uh, I went and searched. There's 566 00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:52,800 Speaker 1: a chain of stores called ten Thousand Villages which sells 567 00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:57,080 Speaker 1: um stuff from around the world from uh, like in 568 00:31:57,120 --> 00:32:01,560 Speaker 1: a fair trade Yeah. I think it's actually run by missionaries, 569 00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:04,560 Speaker 1: but I'm not sure. I went there immediately and searched 570 00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:06,960 Speaker 1: snow globes to see if they had any, and they 571 00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:10,280 Speaker 1: did not. They had various things that were globe shaped, 572 00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:14,120 Speaker 1: but none of them were snow globes. Yeah, that's one 573 00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:16,680 Speaker 1: of those things I had not ever really thought much about, 574 00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:18,800 Speaker 1: but I did start looking. We have a couple we're 575 00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:21,120 Speaker 1: not really collectors through like odds and ends that people 576 00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:23,400 Speaker 1: have got us bought us through the years, like usually 577 00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:26,240 Speaker 1: if they're related to something else that we like, and 578 00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:30,440 Speaker 1: I too discovered Nope, nothing seems to be local or 579 00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:32,520 Speaker 1: fair trade. They all have them made in China. Stamps 580 00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:35,120 Speaker 1: when they are all imported, so that is super cool. 581 00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:37,760 Speaker 1: Thanks to both of those listeners for really cool emails 582 00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:39,880 Speaker 1: giving us info that is good to have and that 583 00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:43,200 Speaker 1: we do not know except now we do. And when 584 00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:46,520 Speaker 1: you know better, you do better. If you would like 585 00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:49,640 Speaker 1: to write to us with exciting knowledge, you can do 586 00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:51,920 Speaker 1: that at History Podcast at how stock works dot com. 587 00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:54,200 Speaker 1: You can also connect with us on Twitter at misst 588 00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:57,400 Speaker 1: in history, at Facebook dot com, slash missed in History, 589 00:32:57,400 --> 00:33:00,680 Speaker 1: on tumbler at missed in History dot tumbler dot and 590 00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:03,479 Speaker 1: at pinterest dot com slash missed in History. You can 591 00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:06,240 Speaker 1: visit missed in History dot spreadshirt dot com if you 592 00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:08,880 Speaker 1: would like to purchase missed in History gear for yourself 593 00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:11,680 Speaker 1: or others. Even though now we're past the holiday season, 594 00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:13,240 Speaker 1: maybe you're like me and you drag your feet a 595 00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:14,560 Speaker 1: little and you still have some work to do. In 596 00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:17,800 Speaker 1: the gift range arena. You can also come to our 597 00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:19,880 Speaker 1: website missed in History dot com if you would like 598 00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:24,520 Speaker 1: to read show notes or see any of the archived episodes. 599 00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:27,800 Speaker 1: We have pretty much everything there. Show notes are from 600 00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:32,600 Speaker 1: when Tracy and I came on through the current episodes. Uh, 601 00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:35,200 Speaker 1: and we have the occasional blog post and like said, 602 00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:39,080 Speaker 1: all of that archived content. You can also visit our 603 00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:41,560 Speaker 1: parents site with how stuff works dot com if you'd 604 00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:43,840 Speaker 1: like to learn a little bit more or just explore 605 00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:46,000 Speaker 1: a little bit more about topic we talked about today. 606 00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:48,920 Speaker 1: You can type in the words classic toys and you 607 00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:51,320 Speaker 1: will get the Ultimate Classic Toy Quiz. It's a kind 608 00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:53,760 Speaker 1: of a fun way to cleanse your palette after talking 609 00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:57,480 Speaker 1: about a white supremacist. Uh. If you would like to 610 00:33:57,560 --> 00:34:00,160 Speaker 1: do that, or almost anything else, you can do at 611 00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:02,160 Speaker 1: at our two websites and Miston history dot com and 612 00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:09,000 Speaker 1: how stuff works dot com for more on this and 613 00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:14,799 Speaker 1: thousands of other topics. Is it how staff works dot com. 614 00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:14,920 Speaker 1: M