WEBVTT - How Electroconvulsive Therapy Works 0:00:01.040 --> 0:00:04.520 Welcome to Stuff you Should Know from House Stuff Works 0:00:04.519 --> 0:00:12.680 dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh 0:00:12.720 --> 0:00:15.120 Clark and there's Charles W. Chuck Bryant, which means it's 0:00:15.120 --> 0:00:22.560 time for Stuff you should Know. Indeed shocking edition. See 0:00:22.560 --> 0:00:24.239 I take the rap for a bad pun, but you 0:00:24.520 --> 0:00:26.920 in fact, I said that before we recorded. I know 0:00:27.040 --> 0:00:30.800 I before we recorded. I have a public image. I 0:00:30.800 --> 0:00:36.200 have to care. Got um Chuck. Yes, have you ever 0:00:36.280 --> 0:00:39.519 seen or read or both? One flu Over the Cookies Nest? 0:00:40.840 --> 0:00:43.319 Yes both? Oh? Yeah? Did you like the book more 0:00:43.320 --> 0:00:47.480 than the movie or vice versa? Both? The book was great. 0:00:47.560 --> 0:00:49.839 I've seen a movie a dozen times. Yeah, one of 0:00:49.840 --> 0:00:51.640 my favs. It is a great movie. Yeah. I haven't 0:00:51.640 --> 0:00:53.640 read the book. Although I was a KINKSI fan. I 0:00:53.680 --> 0:00:55.040 thought he was a cool dude. Yeah, I've read a 0:00:55.040 --> 0:00:58.560 few us. Um, what else did he write? He did 0:00:58.600 --> 0:01:02.640 the Well, Actually he didn't write. That was Tom Wolf 0:01:02.760 --> 0:01:06.440 that wrote the electrically, that was figured prominently obviously. Oh yeah, 0:01:06.440 --> 0:01:10.080 he was the main KESI wrote the crap. I'll come 0:01:10.120 --> 0:01:17.760 back to it. He wrote the what was it the Well? 0:01:17.840 --> 0:01:19.960 If you haven't seen or read One Flew Over the 0:01:19.959 --> 0:01:22.880 Cuckoo's nest you totally should is, like Chuck was saying, 0:01:22.880 --> 0:01:24.679 one of the best movies of all time. It is 0:01:24.760 --> 0:01:27.480 a great book apparently, and Um. One of the things 0:01:27.480 --> 0:01:30.960 that factors into it setting in insane asylum in the 0:01:30.959 --> 0:01:35.440 fifties I would say maybe sixties. UM. And one of 0:01:35.480 --> 0:01:40.080 the I guess almost a character in this UM movie 0:01:40.280 --> 0:01:45.240 or book is electro convulsive therapy, which the staff uses 0:01:45.400 --> 0:01:49.240 to basically keep the patients in check. UM. Just the 0:01:49.360 --> 0:01:53.520 very threat of getting electroc convulsive therapy shock treatment, a 0:01:53.640 --> 0:01:55.960 type of shock treatment, we should say, is enough to 0:01:55.960 --> 0:01:58.760 just keep everybody very docile and calm and settled down. 0:01:58.800 --> 0:02:00.320 And they started to get riled up, you can just 0:02:00.400 --> 0:02:03.520 ask him, do you want some shock treatment? They're like no, No, 0:02:03.640 --> 0:02:09.600 everything's good, Everything's fine. And apparently because of that and 0:02:09.720 --> 0:02:13.320 KESI worked as an orderly in a mental institution in Oregon, 0:02:13.840 --> 0:02:17.080 so he saw his first hand when he wrote it. Um, 0:02:17.160 --> 0:02:19.919 because of that, E. C. T. Got a pretty bad 0:02:20.040 --> 0:02:23.000 rap over the course of a couple of decades, the 0:02:23.000 --> 0:02:26.760 point where it's basically forced almost out of existence. And 0:02:26.880 --> 0:02:29.400 it wasn't just keezy Um making this stuff up like 0:02:29.440 --> 0:02:32.840 he said he was. He was a disorderly like like 0:02:32.880 --> 0:02:36.560 the fat Boys. Um. But there was also a study 0:02:36.639 --> 0:02:39.359 in n by the National Institutes of Health that found 0:02:39.400 --> 0:02:42.560 like that was pretty common practice among antal institutions at 0:02:42.600 --> 0:02:46.880 the time because it was drug free. It was just 0:02:47.000 --> 0:02:50.000 using electrical shock and it wasn't a lobotomy, right, and 0:02:50.120 --> 0:02:53.320 um it was the effects were temporary and apparently it 0:02:53.400 --> 0:02:56.400 worked to keep everybody in line. But that's a gross 0:02:56.440 --> 0:03:03.440 abuse of this pretty effect of therapy for mental illness, yeah, 0:03:03.480 --> 0:03:07.320 for severe depression. And these days it is approved by 0:03:07.400 --> 0:03:11.200 the National Institute of Mental Health, the a p A, 0:03:11.440 --> 0:03:14.000 the a m A, and the U. S. Surgeon General 0:03:14.400 --> 0:03:17.160 and they all say that if used properly e c 0:03:17.280 --> 0:03:21.280 T these days and you know, tweaked diversion of what 0:03:21.320 --> 0:03:24.600 they did back then, is can be very beneficial. And 0:03:24.680 --> 0:03:30.320 Kitty Dukakus, wife of Michael Ducacus, former presidential nominee until 0:03:30.320 --> 0:03:33.440 he wrote in a tank, uh, wrote a book because 0:03:33.560 --> 0:03:36.360 she had it and it's called Shock, The Healing Powers 0:03:36.400 --> 0:03:40.080 of electro Convulsive Therapy, and um it helped her out. 0:03:40.120 --> 0:03:42.400 And I've read excerpts and reviews and stuff, and she 0:03:42.440 --> 0:03:45.440 doesn't like champion it for everyone or anything, but gives 0:03:45.480 --> 0:03:48.200 a lot of great history and then says how it 0:03:48.240 --> 0:03:51.320 has helped her in her journey through depression. Apparently also 0:03:51.360 --> 0:03:54.680 helped Dick cab It. Oh yeah, yeah, it did not 0:03:54.800 --> 0:03:59.360 help so much, Um, Sylvia platha in a standing way, right, Um, 0:03:59.400 --> 0:04:01.839 But yeah, it's been it's been used on a decent 0:04:01.880 --> 0:04:04.520 amount of people. Apparently about a hundred thousand Americans a 0:04:04.640 --> 0:04:13.320 year undergo electro convulsive therapy. Who who got George? Yeah, 0:04:13.400 --> 0:04:15.840 yeah that's right. Yeah, yeah, we've already spoiled that show. 0:04:15.920 --> 0:04:21.719 So we should just like do dramatic readings from scripts. Uh. Um, 0:04:21.800 --> 0:04:24.480 So we we should also say before we go forward, 0:04:24.520 --> 0:04:27.839 it's very easy to call it electro shock therapy. That's 0:04:27.920 --> 0:04:31.159 kind of right. Electro Convulsive therapy is a type of 0:04:31.160 --> 0:04:35.880 shock therapy and shock therapies. The aim is to shock 0:04:35.960 --> 0:04:40.240 your system into having a convulsion because as far back 0:04:40.240 --> 0:04:44.480 as Hippocrates, it was noticed that people who have mental 0:04:44.520 --> 0:04:48.719 illnesses who experienced convulsions tended to feel a little better 0:04:49.279 --> 0:04:53.480 after the after they experienced their seizures. So what you're 0:04:53.480 --> 0:04:55.520 trying to do with any kind of shock treatment is 0:04:55.600 --> 0:05:00.560 induced a seizure and a convulsion. Because no one knows 0:05:00.600 --> 0:05:03.200 why still to this day, but it does something to 0:05:03.440 --> 0:05:08.320 your brain and can hear whether temporarily or permanently, UM, 0:05:08.400 --> 0:05:11.400 mental illness. Yeah, I wonder how this I never I 0:05:11.400 --> 0:05:13.000 didn't think about until just now. I wonder how it 0:05:13.000 --> 0:05:16.279 ties in with like a temper tantrum, like a kid 0:05:16.279 --> 0:05:20.000 feeling better afterward or more settled afterward, or an adult 0:05:20.120 --> 0:05:22.919 that just loses it, you know, and then you know, 0:05:23.000 --> 0:05:25.840 I think everyone's truly lost it before in some emotional way, 0:05:25.839 --> 0:05:28.960 and then afterwards you're like, boy, I feel like more 0:05:29.000 --> 0:05:32.720 relaxed now a right, like resetting after like a catharsis. Yeah, 0:05:32.760 --> 0:05:35.360 I bet you. It's sort of similar pathways in the brain, right, 0:05:35.360 --> 0:05:39.080 except this is with electricity exactly. So, UM, let's talk 0:05:39.080 --> 0:05:42.560 about the history of shock therapies and electro convulsive therapy 0:05:42.720 --> 0:05:45.240 or e c T. That's easier to say. So. One 0:05:45.279 --> 0:05:47.520 thing that they did in the twentieth century, Um, they 0:05:47.520 --> 0:05:50.599 started to experiment with insulin shock, where they would just 0:05:51.120 --> 0:05:55.400 dose the crud out of somebody with insulin and basically 0:05:55.600 --> 0:05:57.919 like bring them into a coma and in the comma 0:05:57.960 --> 0:06:01.800 they would have convulsions. Is that right? Yeah? Right, that 0:06:01.880 --> 0:06:04.039 was the point. Like they figured out this guy named 0:06:04.120 --> 0:06:08.320 Ladislaus von Maduna, who was a Hungarian physician. Yeah, he 0:06:08.440 --> 0:06:10.720 figured out that if you take insulin and injected in 0:06:10.839 --> 0:06:13.839 somebody puts him in a coma temporary coma, UM, that 0:06:13.920 --> 0:06:16.960 you can bring him out of with glucose, and then 0:06:17.000 --> 0:06:19.720 while they're in the coma, they have seizures. And he 0:06:19.880 --> 0:06:22.800 was one of the ones were probably the first modern 0:06:22.960 --> 0:06:27.960 physician to suggest that there was a link between seizures 0:06:28.560 --> 0:06:32.080 or um. Yeah, seizures and the curing of mental illness. 0:06:32.400 --> 0:06:34.440 He took it one step too far and saying that 0:06:34.760 --> 0:06:39.960 schizophrenia and epilepsy were counter productive maladies, so if you 0:06:40.000 --> 0:06:42.440 had one, you couldn't have the other. He was wrong 0:06:42.480 --> 0:06:44.960 about that, but he was right about seizures having a 0:06:45.560 --> 0:06:48.400 curative effect on mental illness though. But he was the 0:06:48.400 --> 0:06:53.599 one who started championing and champion championing using insulin to 0:06:53.600 --> 0:06:57.400 produce seizures, so he led the way, followed by Italian 0:06:57.440 --> 0:07:01.640 scientists the nineteen thirties who only brought electricity into it. Well, 0:07:01.640 --> 0:07:05.479 hold on, there was another guy too before. Yeah, like 0:07:05.600 --> 0:07:07.880 right around the same time they are all these competing 0:07:07.920 --> 0:07:11.640 shock therapies, UM, and there was the insulin guy, and 0:07:11.640 --> 0:07:15.800 then there was another dude UM named Manfred's sakel And 0:07:15.960 --> 0:07:19.680 he was testing something called metrozol, which is the respiratory stimulant. 0:07:20.280 --> 0:07:23.960 And when you give somebody this stuff, they have seizures. 0:07:24.280 --> 0:07:27.680 And it's very reliable and it's very powerful, more powerful 0:07:27.680 --> 0:07:31.920 than insulin, and it requires less recuperation time in hospitalization time. 0:07:32.000 --> 0:07:35.560 The problem is it's so powerful. The like of patients 0:07:35.600 --> 0:07:41.160 who had shock therapy using metrosol suffered spinal fractures from 0:07:41.600 --> 0:07:47.280 because the convulsions were so hardcore, like the Exorcist. Yeah, 0:07:47.360 --> 0:07:53.960 and then some now we're electricity. Yeah they discovered electricity. 0:07:54.240 --> 0:07:58.880 No way, that's not true. I think it was like, um, 0:07:58.920 --> 0:08:01.720 these Italians, they were scientists, and they said, we can 0:08:01.840 --> 0:08:06.200 use this to jolt this guy like with these delusions. 0:08:06.280 --> 0:08:10.320 He's he's clearly suffering, like shock him with electricity, and 0:08:10.360 --> 0:08:14.520 the delusions receded after like several treatments, and then just 0:08:14.600 --> 0:08:17.360 a few years later, in the nineteen forties, it was 0:08:17.520 --> 0:08:24.800 being used as a regular treatment in the US for schizophrenia, depression, bipolarism. Um, 0:08:24.920 --> 0:08:29.160 but it's not like it is today. You said they've 0:08:29.160 --> 0:08:31.960 tweaked it. They've definitely improved it. They figured it out, 0:08:32.040 --> 0:08:37.400 Like we were a little barbaric before no anesthesia back then. Yeah, 0:08:37.400 --> 0:08:39.559 so you were wide awake and conscious when they applied 0:08:39.600 --> 0:08:42.520 in electro shock in your brain like in Cuckoo's Nest. 0:08:43.679 --> 0:08:48.280 Violent physical reactions with the body that don't happen these 0:08:48.360 --> 0:08:52.480 days were very powerful. Yeah, because a there's anesthesia. And 0:08:52.480 --> 0:08:56.600 they also these days put um muscle relaxers and stuff 0:08:56.720 --> 0:09:01.360 everywhere except the big the big Foot, the big foot 0:09:01.480 --> 0:09:03.760 eight single foot, well when it has a blood pressure cuff, 0:09:03.800 --> 0:09:06.320 and I'm sure it is the big Foot, but yeah, 0:09:06.360 --> 0:09:08.800 they they introduced it intravenously and then they put a 0:09:08.800 --> 0:09:12.080 blood pressure cuff on your around your ankle, so your 0:09:12.080 --> 0:09:14.480 body isn't like convulsing anymore, but dick and tell it's 0:09:14.520 --> 0:09:16.440 going on by e G s and stuff. And then 0:09:16.480 --> 0:09:19.520 the foot single foots movement, Yeah, because you're keeping the 0:09:19.640 --> 0:09:22.880 muscle relaxer and I guess the anesthesia out of the foot. Yeah, 0:09:22.920 --> 0:09:26.160 so someone's actually a doctor looking just at your foot supposedly. 0:09:26.200 --> 0:09:28.440 I haven't seen that anywhere else. I saw that. Yeah, 0:09:28.480 --> 0:09:32.800 I saw that. Um like they even with the muscle relaxant, 0:09:32.840 --> 0:09:34.520 your fists are going to clench it on clanch in. 0:09:34.559 --> 0:09:36.880 Your chest might heave and they'll still put a tongue 0:09:37.760 --> 0:09:39.080 thing in your mouth to keep you from buying your 0:09:39.120 --> 0:09:42.480 tongue off, right, But the the cumulative effect of it 0:09:42.520 --> 0:09:43.880 is not going to be felt at all by you 0:09:43.920 --> 0:09:47.760 because you're out under general anesthesia and you're probably feeling 0:09:47.760 --> 0:09:51.920 pretty good anyway. That's true thanks to Mr Muscle Relaxer. 0:09:52.240 --> 0:09:54.240 And then the you know what, the way you've always 0:09:54.280 --> 0:09:56.640 seen it on TV, even when they portray modern like 0:09:56.679 --> 0:09:59.959 on six ft Under, they show people are always render 0:10:00.320 --> 0:10:04.800 this like zombies, like lobotomized essentially, and that's that's not 0:10:04.880 --> 0:10:07.360 what's going on these days. No, well, even back then, 0:10:07.440 --> 0:10:10.440 it was kind of a caricature of what a person 0:10:10.520 --> 0:10:14.240 looked like coming out of it because there is memory 0:10:14.280 --> 0:10:17.160 loss associated with it, yeah, and there still is. Yeah, 0:10:17.160 --> 0:10:19.400 there was then, there still is now. So I think 0:10:19.440 --> 0:10:22.840 that's almost like that's what that's what some artists rendering 0:10:22.920 --> 0:10:26.640 or some directors rendering of what somebody with memory loss 0:10:26.679 --> 0:10:29.200 looks like. And so that's what just kind of got 0:10:29.200 --> 0:10:31.719 picked up in the popular culture following e. C. T. 0:10:31.880 --> 0:10:36.960 As you're just like catatonic, lobotomized zombie like, But really 0:10:36.960 --> 0:10:40.600 it's that's shorthand for it. There's weird memory loss. Yeah, 0:10:40.679 --> 0:10:42.160 and these days are going to check you out a 0:10:42.160 --> 0:10:46.200 lot more beforehand, I think, especially in the media portrayed 0:10:46.240 --> 0:10:48.760 as you know, some like a McMurtry and one flew 0:10:48.760 --> 0:10:51.360 over the cuckoo's nest. He's causing problems. Still just drag 0:10:51.440 --> 0:10:53.600 him in there, strap him down and shock him. Uh. 0:10:53.679 --> 0:10:57.320 These days you're gonna five disorder least to hold them exactly. Uh, 0:10:57.520 --> 0:11:00.160 You're gonna go through a battery of pre treatments, um 0:11:00.760 --> 0:11:04.880 like blood test, electro cardiograms. They're gonna give you a physical, 0:11:05.040 --> 0:11:07.400 they're gonna give you a mental, and they're gonna make 0:11:07.400 --> 0:11:09.559 sure you're a good fit all the way around for 0:11:09.640 --> 0:11:11.640 this kind of treatment. It's you know, it's not as 0:11:11.960 --> 0:11:13.360 I don't know if it was willing naily back then, 0:11:13.440 --> 0:11:15.079 but that's how it appeared to be at least, and 0:11:15.200 --> 0:11:18.000 there was there's actually a decision by the f d A. 0:11:18.320 --> 0:11:23.480 It's an electro convulsive therapy machine is a Class three 0:11:23.760 --> 0:11:28.719 I believe device, just the strictest and classification. And so 0:11:28.960 --> 0:11:31.719 it was up for reclassification for a little while, and 0:11:32.160 --> 0:11:34.160 um they said, you know what, We're gonna stick with 0:11:34.240 --> 0:11:37.719 this classification because it's used for electro shocks, and a 0:11:37.760 --> 0:11:40.640 lot of people said, whoa old stuff. Yeah, you guys, 0:11:40.720 --> 0:11:42.800 this is this is you're still looking at it under 0:11:42.880 --> 0:11:46.480 this the medieval use from the forties and fifties. Things 0:11:46.559 --> 0:11:48.599 have changed by that. But I have to say, I 0:11:48.679 --> 0:11:51.240 mean it's I kind of am comforted by the fact 0:11:51.320 --> 0:11:54.000 that you still have to go to a doctor. It's 0:11:54.040 --> 0:11:56.480 not like the same thing as going for like laser 0:11:56.679 --> 0:11:59.199 hair removal, like you can also get E C T 0:11:59.360 --> 0:12:02.319 in the same fits. Like it's very much medicalized, and 0:12:02.360 --> 0:12:04.280 I think it should be because we still don't understand 0:12:04.320 --> 0:12:08.680 what the mechanisms are. Yeah, that's true. Um, they will 0:12:08.720 --> 0:12:10.400 pulse your brain. You know, you've got these little things 0:12:10.400 --> 0:12:12.160 about size of a quarter, these pads on the side 0:12:12.200 --> 0:12:14.959 of your head, either on both sides or one side, 0:12:15.600 --> 0:12:19.079 and they pulse you with for one millisecond, even though 0:12:19.120 --> 0:12:24.200 I think recently even shorter like millisecond point to five 0:12:24.320 --> 0:12:27.280 to point three seven milliseconds. Yeah, that's what they're starting 0:12:27.280 --> 0:12:30.599 to use. And I guess that that's like is it 0:12:30.679 --> 0:12:34.040 for more humane purposes or yeah. I think they're finding 0:12:34.120 --> 0:12:36.600 that it works at least as well. But there's also 0:12:36.679 --> 0:12:40.839 fewer side effects, like apparently a one millisecond pulse of 0:12:41.000 --> 0:12:46.280 electricity is enough to like really interrupt memory, right, consolidation, 0:12:46.360 --> 0:12:49.440 I guess, whereas like a quarter of a millisecond, it's 0:12:49.440 --> 0:12:51.920 not so bad, all right, And these days you're gonna 0:12:51.960 --> 0:12:54.000 get it. Two to three times a week for three 0:12:54.040 --> 0:12:56.600 to four weeks is a typical treatment. Yeah, that's of course, 0:12:56.840 --> 0:12:58.920 five or ten minutes at a time. Yeah, from the 0:12:59.040 --> 0:13:02.720 time that they inject you with the the anesthesia till 0:13:02.920 --> 0:13:05.560 the time you start to wake up is about ten minutes, 0:13:06.080 --> 0:13:08.280 which I mean, like that doesn't sound like much. But 0:13:08.360 --> 0:13:10.240 if you're doing that two to three times a week 0:13:10.320 --> 0:13:12.920 for several weeks, all that that's a period of your 0:13:13.000 --> 0:13:15.319 life that you have a lot of trouble remembering much of. 0:13:15.679 --> 0:13:18.199 I don't think it's a picnic still, because you're you 0:13:18.320 --> 0:13:21.280 are still coming out of it. You're still groggy coming 0:13:21.320 --> 0:13:24.240 out of anesthesia. You can still be confused. What's ironic 0:13:24.400 --> 0:13:27.079 is now that they use anesthesia, you probably look more 0:13:27.240 --> 0:13:31.240 like the portrayal of people coming out out of ect 0:13:31.400 --> 0:13:34.839 in the fifties than they did because they were anesthecized. 0:13:35.000 --> 0:13:37.480 Yeah they weren't. No, Yeah, that's what I mean. Today, 0:13:37.559 --> 0:13:40.040 that's funny. I didn't think about it like that. UM. 0:13:40.440 --> 0:13:44.439 I found one step funny, I found one stat that 0:13:44.480 --> 0:13:48.760 said it is effective in of people these days with 0:13:48.840 --> 0:13:54.240 severe depression, whereas any depressants are only UM effective about 0:13:54.240 --> 0:13:57.280 sixty at the time. Yeah, and that's what's pretty much 0:13:57.320 --> 0:13:59.920 what they're using it for. Is just like major depression 0:14:00.520 --> 0:14:03.120 is pretty much the thing that they found, like, Okay, 0:14:03.160 --> 0:14:06.199 it's really effective for this, Like when drugs don't work, well, 0:14:06.240 --> 0:14:09.240 that's usually when they're turning to it. UM is after 0:14:09.520 --> 0:14:12.839 an adepressant, after antidepressant hasn't worked. But this is like 0:14:12.920 --> 0:14:16.880 a pretty significant rebound, a hundred thousand people a year 0:14:17.040 --> 0:14:23.360 getting this and coming under wide medical and public acceptance UM. 0:14:23.720 --> 0:14:26.120 Because just as as recently in the eighties, there's a 0:14:26.160 --> 0:14:29.000 stat in this article that says between eighty five and 0:14:29.080 --> 0:14:32.760 two thousand two, the use of ECT in England dropped 0:14:32.760 --> 0:14:36.560 by half, and that was because there was a rose vanidepressants. 0:14:36.640 --> 0:14:39.200 It's like, you can take these pills, or we can 0:14:39.880 --> 0:14:42.680 put electrodes on your brain and zap you. What do 0:14:42.720 --> 0:14:45.880 you want to do? But then as people were as physicians, 0:14:45.920 --> 0:14:48.120 I guess we're finding that there were plenty of people 0:14:48.160 --> 0:14:52.360 out there who don't respond well to UM antidepressants. Shock 0:14:52.440 --> 0:14:55.680 therapy is a great alternative. And if you're if you 0:14:55.720 --> 0:15:00.400 suffer from major depression and you are suicidal or at 0:15:00.520 --> 0:15:04.360 risk for suicide, they may hop right to e c 0:15:04.560 --> 0:15:09.280 T because the results are so much faster. Huh that 0:15:09.400 --> 0:15:11.800 makes sense, I know. Well. One of the interesting things 0:15:12.240 --> 0:15:15.800 they pointed out too, was that, um, once you've had 0:15:15.880 --> 0:15:19.080 e c T, if drugs were not previously effective on you, 0:15:19.200 --> 0:15:24.800 then the anti depressants can extend the good, uh, the 0:15:25.120 --> 0:15:28.560 good effects of the e c T longer, which was 0:15:28.600 --> 0:15:30.720 interesting because like, I guess they can work in concert 0:15:31.080 --> 0:15:32.840 if you go e c T first, which makes it 0:15:32.920 --> 0:15:35.720 sound like like the e c T goes in there 0:15:35.760 --> 0:15:39.360 and like shake things loose, and then the drugs come 0:15:39.400 --> 0:15:42.560 in and like keep their functioning going, keep the new 0:15:42.600 --> 0:15:44.960 and improve functioning going. And we should say, like, all 0:15:45.040 --> 0:15:48.640 this is theory. We don't no one knows specifically what 0:15:49.160 --> 0:15:51.160 e c T does to the brain. We just know 0:15:51.280 --> 0:15:53.880 it works. Then we should also say, no one's exactly 0:15:53.960 --> 0:15:58.160 certain how anidipressants work, right or what effects they have 0:15:58.280 --> 0:16:00.960 on the brain. But there's a couple of theories, um 0:16:01.920 --> 0:16:05.520 that are kind of brain based. One is that Um. 0:16:06.520 --> 0:16:10.440 The the idea is that the electricity UM changes how 0:16:10.520 --> 0:16:15.240 blood flows or how cells metabolize things, and UM that 0:16:15.600 --> 0:16:18.120 leads to some sort of improved function. Yeah. The other 0:16:18.160 --> 0:16:20.600 one is they think it might release certain chemicals that 0:16:20.640 --> 0:16:24.240 can help out UM, and everything I've read sort of 0:16:24.320 --> 0:16:27.960 likens it to a like a control all delete, reset, 0:16:28.160 --> 0:16:31.400 or like some sort of reset function on your brain. 0:16:31.800 --> 0:16:33.560 I think they're likened it in here to turning the 0:16:33.640 --> 0:16:36.480 stereo down, like there's just so much noise and this 0:16:36.640 --> 0:16:39.120 just sort of resets a troubled brain, right. Yeah. There 0:16:39.200 --> 0:16:42.520 was a study in from Scotland in two thousand twelve 0:16:42.600 --> 0:16:45.680 where they did brain scans of people with major depression 0:16:46.080 --> 0:16:48.680 before ect and after a round of E C T 0:16:49.480 --> 0:16:52.960 and UM, they found that these regions associated with mood 0:16:53.440 --> 0:16:57.880 and emotion, um, we're less active. And so they said 0:16:57.920 --> 0:17:01.440 that they basically altered the functional connectivity of these regions 0:17:01.560 --> 0:17:04.760 between the regions so that the person could think more clearly, 0:17:05.240 --> 0:17:07.760 was less distracted, and they think that that had an 0:17:07.760 --> 0:17:10.480 effect on reducing their depression. Well, and they tested with 0:17:10.560 --> 0:17:14.800 placebo's too, and I think like anytime you test with 0:17:14.840 --> 0:17:16.800 the placebo you're gonna find that some there's gonna be 0:17:16.840 --> 0:17:19.600 a little bit of it that works, but yeah, you know, 0:17:19.880 --> 0:17:21.720 but not always. And that's what they found here is 0:17:21.760 --> 0:17:24.320 that some of the people that were told that they 0:17:24.400 --> 0:17:26.639 received e c T put under. Didn't you think this 0:17:26.680 --> 0:17:28.680 is kind of mean? Yeah, they would put them under 0:17:28.720 --> 0:17:31.080 and say they did it and not do it. Um. 0:17:32.200 --> 0:17:35.280 That the people with e c T did recover UM faster, 0:17:35.840 --> 0:17:38.280 but there were some that received the fake treatment that 0:17:38.359 --> 0:17:41.159 did recover as well. So they think that might have 0:17:41.240 --> 0:17:44.240 just been because they received that extra TLC from a 0:17:44.840 --> 0:17:51.520 proper clinician and the free drugs. That's true. So UM, 0:17:52.240 --> 0:17:54.680 we should say there are risks to it, Like there's 0:17:54.840 --> 0:17:57.159 at least two types of memory laws associated with e 0:17:57.280 --> 0:18:01.600 c T. UM. One is you have trouble making memories 0:18:01.840 --> 0:18:05.840 around the appointment, UM, which is to be expected that 0:18:05.840 --> 0:18:09.960 it usually fades. UM. Then there's larger memory loss that 0:18:10.200 --> 0:18:16.000 of past events long before your ect therapy. UM. But 0:18:16.160 --> 0:18:18.600 that also fades not in all people though, So there 0:18:18.680 --> 0:18:21.879 is like memory laws associated with it. With zapping the 0:18:21.920 --> 0:18:24.920 brain with electricity, who who would have thought? Um? And 0:18:25.000 --> 0:18:28.080 then uh, you can also die um. One in ten 0:18:28.160 --> 0:18:32.680 thousand patients undergoing it dies. But they they say that 0:18:32.800 --> 0:18:36.879 that's one in ten thousand. So every year ten people 0:18:36.960 --> 0:18:40.200 die from city in America. But they say that that's 0:18:40.240 --> 0:18:44.359 typically a reaction to or a result of anesthesia, Like 0:18:44.520 --> 0:18:47.880 just going on, Yeah, it's dangerous in and of itself. 0:18:48.240 --> 0:18:51.719 You're gonna get headaches obviously, in some muscle pain. But um, 0:18:52.520 --> 0:18:54.240 I don't. I don't think it's anything quite like the 0:18:54.280 --> 0:18:56.520 old days as far as muscle pain and stuff like that. 0:18:57.760 --> 0:18:59.920 And you will still find people that poop who would 0:18:59.920 --> 0:19:01.760 have worse. But this article points out a lot of 0:19:01.800 --> 0:19:05.119 those people are the same people that are pretty anti 0:19:05.440 --> 0:19:10.320 psychiatry in general and stuff like this. So that seems 0:19:10.320 --> 0:19:13.479 like a bit of a leap to me. What from 0:19:13.520 --> 0:19:16.440 the author to say that, Yeah, at least she wasn't 0:19:16.480 --> 0:19:24.040 just like scientologists hate it. Um, you got anything else, 0:19:24.440 --> 0:19:26.120 I got nothing else. Le've got to try this out. 0:19:28.080 --> 0:19:30.440 I would certainly try it out if I needed it. Okay, Yeah, 0:19:30.640 --> 0:19:33.240 we too. You know, there's something appealing to me about 0:19:34.080 --> 0:19:38.240 using electricity over drugs. Yeah, you drugs are some great 0:19:38.280 --> 0:19:40.520 thing to pump your body for love. Yeah, it's just 0:19:41.080 --> 0:19:44.040 I don't know, I wonder if it's going to become 0:19:44.320 --> 0:19:47.920 more and more widespread, you know, Yeah, and if it 0:19:48.040 --> 0:19:51.840 comes back Gangbusters. Man, that's really going to be impressive 0:19:52.040 --> 0:19:55.639 because it was almost gone. Yeah. You know, imagine if 0:19:55.680 --> 0:19:59.000 the Little Botomy came back. Yea, I know it's still around, 0:19:59.080 --> 0:20:04.399 but it's not back. But you know ect is back, baby, 0:20:05.000 --> 0:20:08.480 maybe a little blood letting the leaching right. If you 0:20:08.560 --> 0:20:11.520 want to learn more about electro convulsive therapy, type that 0:20:11.600 --> 0:20:13.680 word in the search bar how stuff works dot com 0:20:13.800 --> 0:20:15.359 and see if you can do it on the first try. 0:20:15.880 --> 0:20:18.679 And since I said search bar, um, I guess it's 0:20:18.720 --> 0:20:31.800 time for message breake mm hmm. And now listen to mail. Yes, 0:20:31.880 --> 0:20:35.560 and I'm gonna call this misheard song lyrics. Um oh yeah, 0:20:36.000 --> 0:20:40.640 I can't remember which one we asked, canal okay, um, 0:20:41.800 --> 0:20:45.200 everyone has misheard sound lyrics. Excuse me while I kissed 0:20:45.240 --> 0:20:51.160 this guy, Jimi Hendrix wrapped up like a douche Hanford, man, 0:20:51.520 --> 0:20:53.600 that's not what he's saying. No, it wrapped up like 0:20:53.640 --> 0:20:57.639 a deuce, like he's talking about craps. Is he cracks 0:20:57.760 --> 0:21:00.760 or some other sort of gambling. I don't think so. 0:21:01.040 --> 0:21:03.680 Because Springsteen wrote the song and it was cut loose 0:21:03.760 --> 0:21:05.399 like a deuce, and he's song about a car engine. 0:21:06.480 --> 0:21:11.119 I've heard gambling the Springsteen wrote it and then man 0:21:11.200 --> 0:21:13.679 for man changed it. And it's funny Springsteen has come 0:21:13.720 --> 0:21:15.760 out and said, you know, that song didn't become popular toil. 0:21:15.760 --> 0:21:18.760 It became about feminine hygiene and then it was like 0:21:18.840 --> 0:21:21.879 a big deal. Or there's a bathroom on the right 0:21:22.080 --> 0:21:27.600 CCR instead was a bad moon. Right, I hadn't heard 0:21:27.640 --> 0:21:30.440 that one. There's a bathroom No, No, I know the song, 0:21:30.520 --> 0:21:32.760 but I mean, like, I've never heard anybody thinking he's 0:21:32.760 --> 0:21:35.560 saying as a bathroom on their right. It's fairly common, 0:21:36.480 --> 0:21:38.880 all right, So we got one from Cheryl. Hey, guys, 0:21:38.960 --> 0:21:40.400 First of all, I want to say you're still keeping 0:21:40.440 --> 0:21:42.720 me company on days when I get time to work 0:21:42.760 --> 0:21:45.240 on my art projects. You're still as great as ever. 0:21:45.920 --> 0:21:47.680 I was just listening to Panama Canal and I thought 0:21:47.680 --> 0:21:49.800 i'd popp you a quick note to give you a grin. 0:21:50.520 --> 0:21:53.680 Misinterpreted lyrics where my specialty as a kid far and 0:21:53.760 --> 0:21:56.159 away in My most famous moment was when I was 0:21:56.240 --> 0:22:00.080 five or six listening to Madonna with my Auntie and 0:22:00.160 --> 0:22:05.080 I would sing Papa dom Bridge, I'm in trouble deep. 0:22:06.560 --> 0:22:08.639 She said, thing is this really made sense to me? 0:22:08.720 --> 0:22:11.200 And logically, logically if the bridge is made out of 0:22:11.320 --> 0:22:13.640 papa doms, which or do you know what those are? 0:22:13.960 --> 0:22:16.920 It's sort of like a like a flat bread, like 0:22:17.000 --> 0:22:21.440 a crispy tortilla, sort of, it's like a crispy flatbread. 0:22:22.359 --> 0:22:24.399 Uh So, if a bridge was made out of papa doms, 0:22:24.520 --> 0:22:27.520 it would be bound to be weak, and if someone 0:22:27.600 --> 0:22:29.560 were to walk over it, they would it would break 0:22:29.800 --> 0:22:31.639 and they fall in the river below, and hence to 0:22:31.640 --> 0:22:34.520 be in trouble deep And my dad still teases me 0:22:34.560 --> 0:22:38.760 about that to this day. Does make sensense soon. So yeah, Cheryl, 0:22:38.840 --> 0:22:42.880 Papa don bridge, well done? That's fine. You mean's mom? 0:22:43.200 --> 0:22:45.560 She's Fromoking now and she called Madonna Papa don't preach? 0:22:46.160 --> 0:22:48.080 How calls her that? It's her name? She's like, are 0:22:48.080 --> 0:22:52.480 you listening to Papa don't preach? Again? My friend Fox 0:22:52.560 --> 0:22:55.960 had the best misheard song lyric ever and I was 0:22:56.080 --> 0:22:58.240 racking my brain earlier trying to remember it and I cannot. 0:22:59.200 --> 0:23:01.200 So there's some good every one's out there. I'll try 0:23:01.240 --> 0:23:03.320 and I'll try and remember and posted or something. I'll 0:23:03.320 --> 0:23:05.040