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Speaker 2: receive fifteen percent off. Its very difficult to keep the

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Speaker 2: line between the past.

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Speaker 3: And the press. You believe that someone out of the

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Speaker 3: past can enter and take possession of a living bee.

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Speaker 4: We may be through with the past, but the past

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Speaker 4: is not through with us.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back to the Next Picture Show, a movie of

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Speaker 2: the Week podcast devoted to a classic film and the

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Speaker 2: way it's shaped our thoughts on a recent release. I'm

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Speaker 2: Tasha Robinson here again with Genevieve Koski.

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Speaker 4: Keith Phipps, and Scott Tobias.

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Speaker 2: In our last episode, we discussed George Miller's Babe Pig

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Speaker 2: in the City, a surprisingly grim, weird, talking animal adventure

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Speaker 2: set in a magical every city packed with well dressed chimps,

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Speaker 2: singing cats and mice, and one very self aware, murderous

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Speaker 2: bull terrier. This week we're turning our attention to The

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Speaker 2: Sheep Detectives, which also has startlingly murdery dogs and a

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Speaker 2: kind of fairytale town that never quite feels like a

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Speaker 2: real place, particularly given all the chatty animals navigating it.

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Speaker 2: Kyle Bald's mystery movie, based on Leonie Swan's two thousand

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Speaker 2: and five novel Three Bags Full, features some famous faces

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Speaker 2: on screen, most notably Hugh Jackman as a rural British

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Speaker 2: shepherd and The Thompson as his snappish lawyer, and Nicholas

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Speaker 2: Brawn as the comically doof see local cop, but the

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Speaker 2: voice cast is even more familiar. Jackman's beloved herd of

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Speaker 2: cgi sheep, who all have distinctive personalities and colors, are

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Speaker 2: voiced by a cast including Jillia, Luis Dreyfuss, Brian Cranston,

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Speaker 2: Chris O'Dowd, Regina Hall, Patrick Stewart, and Bella Ramsey. As

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Speaker 2: the title of the movie implies, these sheep are the

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Speaker 2: heroes of the tale. When Jackman's character is murdered, they

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Speaker 2: have to find the culprit, especially since his death means

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Speaker 2: they're about to be repatriated from his farm, where they're

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Speaker 2: couseted near pets kept only for their wool and for companionship,

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Speaker 2: to a nearby mutton ranch where they're going to wind

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Speaker 2: up on the menu. The movie has a sharp sense

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Speaker 2: of humor, which ranges from pure slapstick action antics to

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Speaker 2: some well timed dry comic dialogue, but it's also sad

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Speaker 2: and sentimental, as Craig Mason's script considers everything from the

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Speaker 2: relationships between humans and animals to our responsibility to bear

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Speaker 2: our loved one's burdens even when it hurts. Does the

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Speaker 2: Sheep Detectors work as a mystery? Does it work as

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Speaker 2: a dramedy? Does it work as a philosophical exercise? We'll

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Speaker 2: talk it over after this break.

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Speaker 3: A person cannot be a prossing twice for the same crime.

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Speaker 3: I know when Rodney hollings Head was murdered, and I

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Speaker 3: know who the real killer was?

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Speaker 1: No more, go on, the mystery will be solved.

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Speaker 4: When I read the ending tomorrow, Ah, why would.

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Speaker 3: He stop there?

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Speaker 1: He was just about to say who the killer was?

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Speaker 3: They?

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Speaker 4: Oh, why, genius?

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Speaker 3: Up here we go.

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Speaker 2: Last night, something terrible happened. Our shepherd was murdered.

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Speaker 3: No, George is dead.

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Speaker 4: Probably your heart. Not much of a story for you,

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Speaker 4: I'm afraid, unless there's anything out the ordinary, Nope.

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Speaker 5: I've looked everywhere around the caravan, underneath the caravan.

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Speaker 4: What about inside the caravan?

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Speaker 3: Worth a shot, Lily?

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Speaker 6: What will we do?

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Speaker 1: George loved us, he read us of dozens of these stories.

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Speaker 2: We shall solve the crime, all right, everybody. I saw

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Speaker 2: this movie first and stumped pretty hard for us to

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Speaker 2: cover it. So I'm very much on the butcher's chopping

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Speaker 2: block here. As far as what you all thought of

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Speaker 2: Sheep Detectives, So what did you all think of sheep Detectives?

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Speaker 6: I'm back to throwing hats in your corner, Tasha, So

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Speaker 6: so many hats.

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Speaker 2: This is such a hat pie.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, No, I really liked Sheep Detectives.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 6: I've heard a lot of positive buzz going into it,

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Speaker 6: so I think I was already primed for any sort

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Speaker 6: of you know, expectations set by the title and premise

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Speaker 6: to be subverted, and it was. But you know, this

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Speaker 6: was also a much sweeter movie than I was expecting

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Speaker 6: based on this pairing, which I mean, I think probably

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Speaker 6: this would have maybe fit a little more neatly with

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Speaker 6: Babe the first one, if we hadn't already done that

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Speaker 6: repaired it with Oakcha if anyone's wondering. But yeah, like Tasha,

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Speaker 6: you have down in the script, how many times did

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Speaker 6: Geneviev cry? I think three? No, no, like full on sobbings,

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Speaker 6: but lots of you know, tears welling up, just very removed,

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Speaker 6: you know, winter lamb got me. I'm a sucker for

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Speaker 6: a runt, you know. Yeah. And the humor was I

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Speaker 6: thought pretty sharp for as like gentle as it was,

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Speaker 6: if that makes any sense. Like the humor wasn't was

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Speaker 6: never really mean spirited, but it also didn't feel like

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Speaker 6: it had like edges sanded off in a way that

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Speaker 6: kid movie humor sometimes can. So yeah, I was I

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Speaker 6: was very positive on this.

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Speaker 2: Well, I'd have to go back and look and slack,

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Speaker 2: but I could swear I set the over under for

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Speaker 2: Genevie cry count at three kind of kind of based

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Speaker 2: on my own emotional responses to certain beats. So I'm

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Speaker 2: feeling pretty good about that. Keith Scott, Yeah, I liked

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Speaker 2: a lot.

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Speaker 4: I liked it. I'm looking forward to finding out why

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Speaker 4: I didn't love it. Why what's holding me back.

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Speaker 6: From You're waiting for Sheep Detectives too, Sheep in the City.

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Speaker 4: I need I needed to darken a little bit. No,

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Speaker 4: but I like that, you know, you know, I love

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Speaker 4: the original Baby as well. I don't know, I you know,

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Speaker 4: it feels like every element of this movie. Maybe that's

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Speaker 4: going to be the contrast with Babe Pig in the City,

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Speaker 4: but every element of the film could stand to be

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Speaker 4: turned up a notch like it just it doesn't quite

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Speaker 4: you know. The comedic idea of it is that that

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Speaker 4: I that I enjoyed the most. The idea of these

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Speaker 4: of these wordless animals who communicate with each other but

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Speaker 4: have to kind of lead this this dopey uh Nicholas

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Speaker 4: Brown character to you know, signal to him to figure

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Speaker 4: out what to look at. That's a really fun idea

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Speaker 4: that I don't know that the movie exploits as much

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Speaker 4: as it could, and I think there's a there's really

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Speaker 4: something potentially more moving and deep about the idea about

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Speaker 4: the idea of memory and how it's a very eternal

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Speaker 4: sunshine of the spotless mindy idea of memory being something

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Speaker 4: that that is vital to retain even if the memories

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Speaker 4: are sad and uh, because they kind of help shape us,

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Speaker 4: make us more complete human beings. I feel like that's

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Speaker 4: that's a theme here, that that it comes through. It

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Speaker 4: certainly comes through, but not with a lot of punch.

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Speaker 4: And I think that's generally my the thing that's holding

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Speaker 4: me back on this movie in general is like I

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Speaker 4: don't feel like any one element of the movie comes

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Speaker 4: through with a whole lot of force. It feels good,

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Speaker 4: just a good movie.

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Speaker 5: I can see that's that's legit. But I it added

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Speaker 5: up to you know, good, good was good. You know,

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Speaker 5: a good movie is good. And I did really enjoy it.

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Speaker 5: I'd find it quite moving. I did find maybe I

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Speaker 5: found its depiction of memory a little more residant than

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Speaker 5: you did, Scott, and I just I just felt like

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Speaker 5: that that stuff was really quite affecting in a way

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Speaker 5: that kind of felt like it was That's kind of

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Speaker 5: the point of the movie more than more than anything else,

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Speaker 5: as fun as the mystery is, especially.

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Speaker 6: As it relates to death and loss. You know, I

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Speaker 6: feel the same Keith like the sheep being able to

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Speaker 6: choose to not remember, I thought was a really compelling

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Speaker 6: ac spec of the movie and I think really tap

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Speaker 6: into its emotional core as it relates to death. Like

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Speaker 6: another aspect of this little the sheep lore that I

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Speaker 6: liked is their belief that they turn into clouds, you know,

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Speaker 6: that they don't die, they turn into clouds, and sort

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Speaker 6: of the wool coming off their eyes as that goes,

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Speaker 6: and as sort of the discovery of what happens to

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Speaker 6: other sheep outside their pasture. I thought that was all

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Speaker 6: really resonant in the context of them choosing to remember

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Speaker 6: all of that, because it also means remembering George and

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Speaker 6: someone that was important to them.

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Speaker 2: I feel like I do think that it's true that

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Speaker 2: the memory question in this movie is maybe centrally what

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Speaker 2: this movie is about. If not what it's about, it's

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Speaker 2: still the it's the important thing because it's kind of

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Speaker 2: the unique point that this movie makes through the idea

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Speaker 2: that sheep can just consciously choose to forget anything they

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Speaker 2: want and often do, because that gets us to a

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Speaker 2: kind of a larger plot point about the choice to

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Speaker 2: sit with uncomfortable feelings, which you know, kind of kind

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Speaker 2: of takes us back to like inside out the movie

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Speaker 2: and the purpose of sadness. The idea here that people

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Speaker 2: who can just choose not to engage with things that

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Speaker 2: make them sad, can ignore them, turn turn them aside,

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Speaker 2: and like literally wipe them from their brains is pretty

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Speaker 2: metaphorically resonant and pretty relevant to our our current moment

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Speaker 2: and the conversation that we were having in the previous

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Speaker 2: half of this pairing about the empathy gap and the

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Speaker 2: choice to believe that other people's feelings aren't real, faced

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Speaker 2: with an entire species that can just look at anything

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Speaker 2: that makes them uncomfortable and make it not exist in

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Speaker 2: their world anymore, and then kind of being given a

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Speaker 2: through line of reasons to hold on to those things,

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Speaker 2: and the cultural gap between people who can do that

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Speaker 2: and the one sheep who can't. It really is kind

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Speaker 2: of the emotional backbone of this movie. I think in

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Speaker 2: a lot of ways, there's no surprise I really enjoyed

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Speaker 2: this movie. I'm a little surprised at Scott's reaction in

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Speaker 2: wanting to turn it up, because I feel like I

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Speaker 2: could have stood stood to turn it down just a notch.

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Speaker 2: If I had a critique of this movie, it would

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Speaker 2: be a few too many of the elements that I

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Speaker 2: liked felt a little too like brightly artificial. A lot

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Speaker 2: of the characters feel kind of plastic, and you know,

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Speaker 2: more more metaphor than man as it were, all the

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Speaker 2: many of them are women. So I could have stood

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Speaker 2: for that edge just to be sanded down a little

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Speaker 2: and for this all that it felt like a little

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Speaker 2: more lived in and a little less you know, brightly quirky.

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Speaker 2: So as usual as Scott and I both agree about

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Speaker 2: something and disagree about the the interpretation and how we

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Speaker 2: feel about it, I think it more just.

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Speaker 4: Has to do with pop you know, just like the

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Speaker 4: elements of it, just having that having like I said, force,

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Speaker 4: not necessarily it being wanting to be done in a

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Speaker 4: more heavy handed way or something like that. I just,

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Speaker 4: you know, I just I think I really appreciated elements

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Speaker 4: of the film, and actually hearing you all talk about

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Speaker 4: how comprehensively the memory theme is handled in the movie

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Speaker 4: kind of makes me think like I'm underappreciating that as

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Speaker 4: being kind of really the primary function of the film

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Speaker 4: and something that maybe not crediting the film enough for

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Speaker 4: bringing all that cross as well as it does so

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Speaker 4: because because it certainly stands out as something as an unusual,

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Speaker 4: unexpected element of this movie, because it because you know,

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Speaker 4: on a surface level, you could just simply make a

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Speaker 4: movie a comedy about sheep helping solve a murder mystery.

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Speaker 4: That and that that's a fun movie, and that movie

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Speaker 4: exists here, but it is an ultimately you know that

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Speaker 4: that the primary you know, emotional thrust, and I think

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Speaker 4: and the fact that that it is that this memory

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Speaker 4: theme is present, and that it has a level of

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Speaker 4: sophistication that really goes beyond what you might expect from

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Speaker 4: a family comedy involving talking animals, and that's a that's

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Speaker 4: a huge credit to the film's favor.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, one of the favorite things.

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Speaker 4: I can't can't.

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Speaker 5: I'm stuggly to think of another example of this, but

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Speaker 5: this is this is the thing I thought was I

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Speaker 5: always like this one has happened When when a chiller

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Speaker 5: comes out, it's like Chief detect is that looks dumb

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Speaker 5: it comes out of Oh Chief Detective is actually really

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Speaker 5: good yea.

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Speaker 6: My only real problem with this movie is a problem

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Speaker 6: that I've had with other movies, which is that it

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Speaker 6: does not understand how hair dye works.

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Speaker 2: Yes, strong agree.

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Speaker 6: This is this is not the first movie that has

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Speaker 6: acted like bleach is something that is just a like

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Speaker 6: a contact die, and that is very central and in

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Speaker 6: solving the mystery, which I don't think we need to

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Speaker 6: get too deep into the specifics of it, but it

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Speaker 6: does involve bleach hair being treated as if it is

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Speaker 6: colored with like a yellow highlighter that comes off on

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Speaker 6: your hand.

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Speaker 2: I would say, almost more like yellow powder. Like you know,

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Speaker 2: if you've wherever in a stage play in high school

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Speaker 2: and called on to play like a senior citizen and

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Speaker 2: they did it by just filling your hair with baby

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Speaker 2: powder to make it look gray's that's what bleached blonde

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Speaker 2: hair does in this movie. There are some other things

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Speaker 2: involving dyes that are kind of part of the whole

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Speaker 2: same thing, and know that element just doesn't work at

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Speaker 2: all to my mind. It's one of the indications that

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Speaker 2: were not meant to take any of this too seriously.

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Speaker 2: And some of the other indications are just like how

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Speaker 2: heightened everything is, particularly Emma Thompson's character. You know, I

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Speaker 2: love Emma Thompson. It's always good to see her on screen.

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Speaker 2: But the character she's playing here is like maybe half

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Speaker 2: a notch down from like a live action care La

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Speaker 2: Deville kind of depiction, you know, just like waving a

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Speaker 2: cigarette around and going darling kind of flavor thing. And

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Speaker 2: it kind of feels at times when we're among the

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Speaker 2: human characters, like everybody is either a parody, or everybody

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Speaker 2: is just a little in a different movie, or like

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Speaker 2: everybody has seen a Knives Out movie and kind of

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Speaker 2: feels like if they do that book bigger, they'll get noticed.

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Speaker 2: And the contrast between that and kind of the more

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Speaker 2: dialed down interaction of the sheep is interesting to me,

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Speaker 2: but it does get a little jarring sometimes going back

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Speaker 2: and forth.

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Speaker 6: I'd have to go back and check my notes here,

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Speaker 6: But I did recall as I was watching the movie,

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Speaker 6: noting how many of our suspect characters had scenes where

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Speaker 6: they were conspicuously wearing red, as in a red herring.

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Speaker 6: And Emma Thompson's character, I think also she's wearing like

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Speaker 6: a bright purple suit in the on the poster, but

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Speaker 6: I'm pretty sure like I said, all the characters. I

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Speaker 6: think there's some fun stuff being done with color in

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Speaker 6: this movie that I was didn't grock quickly enough to

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Speaker 6: track in my one viewing of the film. But I

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Speaker 6: think if it is there, as I suspect it as

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Speaker 6: kind of aligns with the like almost programmatic nature of

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Speaker 6: the of the mystery.

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Speaker 2: It is now that I think about it, maybe another

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Speaker 2: Touchdowe for just kind of how like how big and

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Speaker 2: bright and comedically exaggerated some of these characters are. Is

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Speaker 2: Jonathan Lynn's clue, Yes, yeah, yeah, And that's I mean,

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Speaker 2: that's not a bad porn of comparison, Like I enjoy

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Speaker 2: that movie a lot, and it's definitely a movie that

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Speaker 2: I enjoy more with age and you know, enjoy more

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Speaker 2: with repetition that I'm not. I kind of feel like

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Speaker 2: the first time I saw it, I had the same

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Speaker 2: response of like, oh, these characters are also like big

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Speaker 2: in cartoony and weird, and this doesn't this doesn't feel

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Speaker 2: very real, And I suspect eventually I will get there

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Speaker 2: with sheep Detectives as well, where I'm like, oh, wait, no,

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Speaker 2: this is just fun. With that in mind, I mean,

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Speaker 2: there are a lot of different bits and pieces in

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Speaker 2: this movie that could at any point not connect and

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Speaker 2: fall apart. Like Babe in Pig in the City. It

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00:16:39,165 --> 00:16:41,685
Speaker 2: is kind of a tonal mishmash of a bunch of

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Speaker 2: different things, one of which is, you know, the tragedy

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Speaker 2: of the sheep. You know, Babe almost lost Farmer Hoggett.

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Speaker 2: In Babe Pig in the City, they actually do lose,

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Speaker 2: you know, the person who loves them, who their lives

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Speaker 2: depend on. There's a pretty strong, like melancholy angle. There

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00:16:59,605 --> 00:17:04,764
Speaker 2: is a fairly twist filled red herring filled who done it?

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Speaker 2: Going on? With a lot of moving pieces. You know,

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Speaker 2: there's just a kind of like emotional story about connection

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Speaker 2: to the land. There's a lot of big silly, slapsticky comedy.

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Speaker 2: What landed here for you? Most everybody kind of liked

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Speaker 2: the film, you know, the Greater Life her degrees? Well,

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Speaker 2: what stood out for you that made you like it?

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Speaker 6: I actually ended up liking the Winter Lamb stuff more

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Speaker 6: than I expected to when it was first introduced because

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Speaker 6: the Winter Lamb character, the first Winter Lamb character who's

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Speaker 6: just adorable, like the most adorable of all the adorable sheep,

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Speaker 6: you know, And it's like the Simpsons episodeer, Lisa becomes

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Speaker 6: a vegetarian, you know, like you keep getting a cuter,

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Speaker 6: cuter sheep. Awe ah ah, you know it's the last awe.

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Speaker 6: But then as the film progresses, in the revelation that

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Speaker 6: Sebastian the outsider ram voice by Brian Cranston, and like

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Speaker 6: his whole backstory of being a Winter Lamb too and

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Speaker 6: then being outsiders and shunned you know by the rest

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Speaker 6: of the flock. I think maybe the most unexpectedly moving

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Speaker 6: part of this movie to me was when like the

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Speaker 6: Winter Lamb was accepted, not because the Winter Lamb was cute,

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Speaker 6: but because I think it earned that through like the

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Speaker 6: whole idea of a Winter Lamb and how it explored

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Speaker 6: that through Sebastian, and obviously Sebastian's eventual fate ties into

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Speaker 6: that as well. But maybe I'm just saying I like

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Speaker 6: Sebastian as a character more than I expected to.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I guess that's a really sad origin story, which.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, nice, but one that pays off and I think

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Speaker 2: a really interesting way. I mean, I didn't even bring

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Speaker 2: up the kind of horror elements of this movie, which

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Speaker 2: there is a pretty dark through line in here about

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Speaker 2: what it means to be a food animal in the

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Speaker 2: hands of humans you know, who kind of control your

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Speaker 2: life at whim and who are very different from each

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Speaker 2: other in terms of their intentions, their empathy and their cruelty,

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Speaker 2: and some of the ways that comes out is in

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Speaker 2: a pretty horrific sequence involving a neighbor farm and a

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Speaker 2: couple of not bull terrier dogs that are scary in

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Speaker 2: the way the bull terrier is in a baby pig

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Speaker 4: One thing I say in terms of you know, we

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00:20:45,845 --> 00:20:48,685
Speaker 4: were talking about this film trying to work on a

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Speaker 4: lot of different levels, I would say what's happening between

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00:20:52,925 --> 00:20:55,885
Speaker 4: the sheep is more compelling to me than any of

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Speaker 4: the interactions involving the human characters. I think in weird enough,

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00:21:00,965 --> 00:21:04,045
Speaker 4: the bulk of the talent too, seems to be in

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Speaker 4: the vocal capacity rather than human capacity. All apologies to

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Speaker 4: Emma Thompson and Nicholas Bawn and Mally Gordon, who are

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Speaker 4: all fine. I feel, like, you know, I think the

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Speaker 4: Who Done It is almost deliberately stock and it's something

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Speaker 4: I think you figure out pretty quickly. I didn't. I didn't.

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Speaker 2: I was. I was about a beat ahead of it.

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00:21:24,325 --> 00:21:28,525
Speaker 2: I got there definitely, not through the clues, just through

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Speaker 2: a sort of you know what's in any mystery like this,

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00:21:33,565 --> 00:21:36,885
Speaker 2: I'm always looking for, like, who's the least likely character

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00:21:37,405 --> 00:21:41,285
Speaker 2: now that we've brought up so many most likely characters? Yeah,

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Speaker 2: but I was not very far ahead of this dismisstery.

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Speaker 4: Okay, well, I'm sorry about that. But I do think

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00:21:46,925 --> 00:21:48,845
Speaker 4: there is uh, there's a lot of them. There's a

400
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Speaker 4: lot to choose from, and I guess that's what you

401
00:21:50,325 --> 00:21:53,365
Speaker 4: need and Who Done It is to have a decent

402
00:21:53,805 --> 00:21:57,845
Speaker 4: number of characters to choose from. But the the other

403
00:21:57,885 --> 00:22:00,325
Speaker 4: flip side of that is that you need them to

404
00:22:00,965 --> 00:22:04,765
Speaker 4: either individually or together as a unit to work for

405
00:22:04,805 --> 00:22:07,484
Speaker 4: you and to feel like they have a strong purpose

406
00:22:07,525 --> 00:22:09,845
Speaker 4: and presence in the movie. I don't necessarily think is

407
00:22:09,845 --> 00:22:13,445
Speaker 4: the case here as much as it could be, you know,

408
00:22:13,525 --> 00:22:16,205
Speaker 4: And I felt myself, you know, other than Nicholas Braun,

409
00:22:16,205 --> 00:22:18,005
Speaker 4: who I think is a lot of fun in this movie,

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00:22:18,045 --> 00:22:22,005
Speaker 4: I felt myself much more engaged buy everything that was

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Speaker 4: going on with The Sheep here, I.

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Speaker 5: Think, probably as it should be.

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Speaker 6: Though it's called The Sheep Detective, it's not detective. And

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Speaker 6: he's not even a detective as he is he says

415
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Speaker 6: so himself.

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Speaker 2: Not the very bad Cauman detective Scott. I feel like,

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Speaker 2: even after all this time together, I'm still sort of

418
00:22:39,925 --> 00:22:44,125
Speaker 2: perpetually like my Scott Tobuias, like violen Zometer is very

419
00:22:44,165 --> 00:22:46,365
Speaker 2: finely tuned at this point, my Scott to buy a

420
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Speaker 2: Quirkometer is still a work in progress. There was a

421
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Speaker 2: point when I was recommending this film where I thought,

422
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Speaker 2: I really think, I think Jennathy is going to love

423
00:22:55,885 --> 00:22:59,285
Speaker 2: this film. I think he's gonna like it. Scott is

424
00:22:59,485 --> 00:23:01,645
Speaker 2: either going to enjoy the craft of it or hate

425
00:23:01,685 --> 00:23:05,405
Speaker 2: the quirk of it. What about the and this is

426
00:23:05,445 --> 00:23:09,445
Speaker 2: a very quirky movie with big, broad, quirky characters and

427
00:23:09,485 --> 00:23:13,484
Speaker 2: a pretty quirky conceit. You don't always like quirk? What

428
00:23:13,965 --> 00:23:16,965
Speaker 2: about this movie does not trip the part the kind

429
00:23:17,005 --> 00:23:17,685
Speaker 2: of quirk you hate?

430
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Speaker 4: Oh well, I don't know. I mean, like I said,

431
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Speaker 4: I mean, quirk is it would be overly broad to

432
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Speaker 4: talk about me as someone who has an aversion to

433
00:23:26,165 --> 00:23:29,045
Speaker 4: things that are quirky, because again, you know, I think

434
00:23:29,045 --> 00:23:32,005
Speaker 4: about a movie like Local Hero, which is the I

435
00:23:32,045 --> 00:23:34,205
Speaker 4: can't think of a film that is more about quirk

436
00:23:34,285 --> 00:23:37,605
Speaker 4: than that, and and I adore it. And here, you know,

437
00:23:37,725 --> 00:23:42,925
Speaker 4: or relatively close geographically to uh, you know, it's that's

438
00:23:43,005 --> 00:23:45,645
Speaker 4: that neck of the woods globally to Local Hero, and

439
00:23:45,925 --> 00:23:48,885
Speaker 4: I think it's just I don't know, I mean, it's

440
00:23:48,965 --> 00:23:51,245
Speaker 4: it's all done well. And I think I think it

441
00:23:51,285 --> 00:23:55,125
Speaker 4: really ultimately has to do with whether it's whether it's

442
00:23:55,125 --> 00:23:57,605
Speaker 4: one funny, which was this movie isn't two you know,

443
00:23:57,645 --> 00:24:00,005
Speaker 4: grounded in something real, which this movie also is. And

444
00:24:00,045 --> 00:24:01,565
Speaker 4: I think when you have those two things and you're

445
00:24:01,605 --> 00:24:04,685
Speaker 4: not just kind of floating off into the ether, which

446
00:24:04,725 --> 00:24:07,445
Speaker 4: which happens with a lot and a lot of quirky

447
00:24:08,245 --> 00:24:13,045
Speaker 4: comedy that I find, you know, too ingratiating or sickly sweet,

448
00:24:13,165 --> 00:24:16,045
Speaker 4: or too cute like it. Really, this movie isn't that

449
00:24:16,245 --> 00:24:18,925
Speaker 4: it avoids those pitfalls, I think pretty thoroughly.

450
00:24:19,485 --> 00:24:24,165
Speaker 2: The Hugh Jackman character here, our farmer hogot of local note,

451
00:24:24,325 --> 00:24:30,085
Speaker 2: George Hardy, is very much a figure of like noble sentiment.

452
00:24:30,325 --> 00:24:32,645
Speaker 2: You know, he's he's kind of a prince and a

453
00:24:32,685 --> 00:24:35,965
Speaker 2: saint all rolled up into one, and he meets his

454
00:24:36,005 --> 00:24:40,645
Speaker 2: tragic end as foretold in the in the trailer. I'm

455
00:24:40,685 --> 00:24:42,805
Speaker 2: not entirely sure how I feel about either how that

456
00:24:42,885 --> 00:24:46,725
Speaker 2: character is drawn or the performance itself. It's very much

457
00:24:46,845 --> 00:24:50,605
Speaker 2: meant to do some very specific mechanical and emotional things,

458
00:24:51,205 --> 00:24:54,805
Speaker 2: and it does feel a little manipulative. I can feel

459
00:24:54,885 --> 00:24:58,125
Speaker 2: him trying to be warm. What do you all think

460
00:24:58,205 --> 00:24:59,925
Speaker 2: of the Hugh Jackman performance here?

461
00:25:00,165 --> 00:25:01,805
Speaker 6: It gets the job done.

462
00:25:03,045 --> 00:25:06,725
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's so much more damning than like a vicious

463
00:25:06,765 --> 00:25:07,405
Speaker 2: critique of it.

464
00:25:07,885 --> 00:25:10,005
Speaker 5: Well, I think casting Hugh Jackman, I don't think I've

465
00:25:10,005 --> 00:25:12,805
Speaker 5: ever disliked Hugh Jackman in a movie, so I think,

466
00:25:13,165 --> 00:25:16,245
Speaker 5: and I think, you know, casting Hugh Jackman does goes

467
00:25:16,285 --> 00:25:19,205
Speaker 5: a long way, perhaps like a slightly you know, thinly

468
00:25:19,205 --> 00:25:24,085
Speaker 5: conceived character film to conceived but admirable character. But yeah,

469
00:25:24,125 --> 00:25:25,325
Speaker 5: he's you know, he's.

470
00:25:25,205 --> 00:25:28,405
Speaker 6: Also a grump though, you know, like, which I think

471
00:25:28,845 --> 00:25:33,405
Speaker 6: is something that Jackman also has a way with. See

472
00:25:33,485 --> 00:25:37,565
Speaker 6: Wolverine of you know, kind of rough around the edges

473
00:25:37,885 --> 00:25:40,005
Speaker 6: guy with a heart of gold, you know, so I

474
00:25:40,045 --> 00:25:42,845
Speaker 6: think it's maybe tapping into that characterization a little bit.

475
00:25:43,085 --> 00:25:45,445
Speaker 5: I think Wolverine would read the sheep. What do you think.

476
00:25:48,285 --> 00:25:48,845
Speaker 3: Of all the X men?

477
00:25:48,885 --> 00:25:51,085
Speaker 5: I think he's the most likely to be caught reading

478
00:25:51,125 --> 00:25:51,525
Speaker 5: the sheep.

479
00:25:53,125 --> 00:25:54,005
Speaker 2: That's probably true.

480
00:25:54,085 --> 00:25:59,005
Speaker 4: And he's got he's got cheers for true and he

481
00:25:59,045 --> 00:26:02,485
Speaker 4: and Freddy Krueger both both could be uh Edward Scissorhands.

482
00:26:02,605 --> 00:26:06,485
Speaker 2: And before you guys start trying to pull sheep detectives

483
00:26:06,485 --> 00:26:10,725
Speaker 2: into the new MCU, what about the other human characters?

484
00:26:10,725 --> 00:26:13,925
Speaker 2: Who stands out or who who stands out? And did

485
00:26:13,965 --> 00:26:15,685
Speaker 2: they stand out for good or bad reasons?

486
00:26:15,845 --> 00:26:18,765
Speaker 5: I like Chow Uh Yeah, I kind of wish there

487
00:26:18,765 --> 00:26:21,405
Speaker 5: was just a little bit more time with that character

488
00:26:21,685 --> 00:26:23,925
Speaker 5: and a little more set up for the reveal we

489
00:26:23,925 --> 00:26:28,045
Speaker 5: get at the end about her, But I always tend

490
00:26:28,085 --> 00:26:31,325
Speaker 5: to like her when she shows up and she's fun.

491
00:26:31,485 --> 00:26:33,125
Speaker 2: She's having such an interesting career.

492
00:26:33,245 --> 00:26:36,445
Speaker 6: Nicholas Braun kind of won me back here, I will say,

493
00:26:36,445 --> 00:26:41,005
Speaker 6: because he's someone who would just post cousin Greg. I

494
00:26:41,045 --> 00:26:44,845
Speaker 6: haven't really been impressed when I've seen him, you know,

495
00:26:44,965 --> 00:26:47,805
Speaker 6: kind of I guess try to build on cousin Greg

496
00:26:48,525 --> 00:26:51,765
Speaker 6: from succession. And I don't know if it's just the

497
00:26:51,845 --> 00:26:55,885
Speaker 6: accent or but this felt like a you know, it

498
00:26:55,965 --> 00:27:02,125
Speaker 6: was it was tapping into Braun's sort of natural doofiness

499
00:27:02,165 --> 00:27:05,525
Speaker 6: in a different way that felt like a good fit

500
00:27:05,885 --> 00:27:09,845
Speaker 6: with this movie and not like maybe as self conscious

501
00:27:09,845 --> 00:27:13,045
Speaker 6: as it seemed in other performances we've gotten from him.

502
00:27:13,445 --> 00:27:15,805
Speaker 6: And I also really enjoyed Molly Gordon. I I think

503
00:27:15,845 --> 00:27:20,405
Speaker 6: I kind of liked their chemistry here, which I wasn't

504
00:27:20,445 --> 00:27:22,885
Speaker 6: really expecting too, because I don't think I've seen Nicholas

505
00:27:22,925 --> 00:27:27,765
Speaker 6: Braun have memorable chemistry with anyone since Tom Lomscams So,

506
00:27:30,245 --> 00:27:34,605
Speaker 6: but yeah, and I like Molly Gordon generally. I like

507
00:27:34,685 --> 00:27:40,645
Speaker 6: her performance here. I think her presence doesn't really sell

508
00:27:41,325 --> 00:27:45,525
Speaker 6: the role that her character has to play for a

509
00:27:45,645 --> 00:27:48,605
Speaker 6: large portion in this movie, which is prime suspect, you know,

510
00:27:48,725 --> 00:27:52,125
Speaker 6: Like I never believed that she was the murderer, as

511
00:27:52,205 --> 00:27:54,445
Speaker 6: much as I think the movie kind of requires you

512
00:27:54,605 --> 00:27:57,565
Speaker 6: to buy into that for a period of time.

513
00:27:57,965 --> 00:28:00,965
Speaker 4: I think it requires the other characters to buy into

514
00:28:01,005 --> 00:28:03,085
Speaker 4: that idea, not necessarily the audience.

515
00:28:03,285 --> 00:28:03,685
Speaker 6: That's fair.

516
00:28:03,725 --> 00:28:05,805
Speaker 4: So I think it's fine that we never think that

517
00:28:05,885 --> 00:28:09,125
Speaker 4: she is a suspect. There just needs to be a

518
00:28:09,165 --> 00:28:11,565
Speaker 4: series of events that make the other people on screen

519
00:28:11,965 --> 00:28:15,285
Speaker 4: think that. So I didn't have a huge issue with that.

520
00:28:15,445 --> 00:28:18,445
Speaker 4: But I do really like Nicholas Braun in this movie.

521
00:28:18,565 --> 00:28:22,325
Speaker 4: There's just that natural gangly awkwardness that he's brought to

522
00:28:22,405 --> 00:28:24,845
Speaker 4: us in sky High. I'm going to mention go pre

523
00:28:25,565 --> 00:28:27,645
Speaker 4: I'm gonna go pre succession and mentioned one of my

524
00:28:27,685 --> 00:28:31,325
Speaker 4: favorite kind of underrated Disney live action movies and talk

525
00:28:31,365 --> 00:28:34,205
Speaker 4: about sky High as it is a favorite. Very small

526
00:28:34,285 --> 00:28:37,245
Speaker 4: role in that, but memorable. And I just think, I

527
00:28:37,245 --> 00:28:40,445
Speaker 4: just think it's just something about his you know, innocence

528
00:28:40,485 --> 00:28:45,365
Speaker 4: and his like gawky height, and you know, I just

529
00:28:45,885 --> 00:28:49,445
Speaker 4: he's both. He's very He's a credible dufist, but also

530
00:28:49,685 --> 00:28:53,285
Speaker 4: credible as somebody who is sweet natured and can kind

531
00:28:53,285 --> 00:28:56,285
Speaker 4: of give you give the movie. He set the tone

532
00:28:56,325 --> 00:28:58,965
Speaker 4: for the comedic and romantic element of the movie.

533
00:28:59,245 --> 00:29:01,845
Speaker 2: I the romantic element of this movie did absolutely nothing

534
00:29:01,885 --> 00:29:04,965
Speaker 2: for me. I did not particularly think they had chemistry

535
00:29:05,205 --> 00:29:08,725
Speaker 2: or were interesting and I'm definitely not a fan of

536
00:29:09,605 --> 00:29:11,965
Speaker 2: you know, local cop who has way too much power

537
00:29:12,085 --> 00:29:17,725
Speaker 2: over what happens and not a very good situational awareness,

538
00:29:17,965 --> 00:29:20,925
Speaker 2: is also hitting on the main suspect. But you know

539
00:29:21,005 --> 00:29:25,045
Speaker 2: who Nicholas Brown did have really good chemistry with is

540
00:29:26,005 --> 00:29:30,405
Speaker 2: Nicholas Gallazine as the reporter. I actually really liked the

541
00:29:30,485 --> 00:29:33,485
Speaker 2: dynamic between them a lot in terms of like they

542
00:29:33,565 --> 00:29:36,285
Speaker 2: get they get to some of the best human banter

543
00:29:36,565 --> 00:29:39,485
Speaker 2: I think as reporters, kind of like trying to push

544
00:29:39,525 --> 00:29:41,805
Speaker 2: him to do not just to do his job, but

545
00:29:41,885 --> 00:29:45,445
Speaker 2: to do his job smarter, while while chasing a story

546
00:29:45,765 --> 00:29:48,805
Speaker 2: that you know, could could make his career like the

547
00:29:48,965 --> 00:29:52,925
Speaker 2: entire kind of like run of the Reporter's plot line,

548
00:29:53,045 --> 00:29:56,165
Speaker 2: I thought was a lot of fun and just some

549
00:29:56,205 --> 00:29:58,845
Speaker 2: surprises there that we're hidden in plain sight in a

550
00:29:58,925 --> 00:30:02,245
Speaker 2: very playfair with the audience kind of way. So yeah,

551
00:30:02,285 --> 00:30:04,485
Speaker 2: I liked the two of that. I liked the two

552
00:30:04,485 --> 00:30:05,845
Speaker 2: of them, and I was more invested in the two

553
00:30:05,845 --> 00:30:08,045
Speaker 2: of them, not as a romantic pairing, but just as

554
00:30:08,205 --> 00:30:12,605
Speaker 2: a set of connected characters than I was with with

555
00:30:12,645 --> 00:30:13,885
Speaker 2: Braun and Gordon.

556
00:30:14,085 --> 00:30:16,245
Speaker 6: Yeah. Well, and I should clarify when I talk about

557
00:30:16,245 --> 00:30:19,165
Speaker 6: the chemistry between Braun and Gordon. I didn't mean, like

558
00:30:19,365 --> 00:30:22,445
Speaker 6: as a romantic pairing. I was thinking sort of the

559
00:30:22,525 --> 00:30:25,805
Speaker 6: similar way as you're talking about with Gallaxy, and just

560
00:30:25,885 --> 00:30:29,365
Speaker 6: like sort of the you know, their connection over this case,

561
00:30:29,645 --> 00:30:32,165
Speaker 6: I honestly can't even remember if they quote unquote get

562
00:30:32,205 --> 00:30:34,685
Speaker 6: together in the end. There's just like sort of like

563
00:30:34,725 --> 00:30:38,285
Speaker 6: the suggestion that he's a little taken with her. You know,

564
00:30:38,365 --> 00:30:42,725
Speaker 6: she's very pretty. But I wasn't necessarily tracking any sort

565
00:30:42,725 --> 00:30:45,605
Speaker 6: of romantic relationship between them as much as just like

566
00:30:45,725 --> 00:30:48,205
Speaker 6: adversarial turned allies.

567
00:30:48,685 --> 00:30:53,605
Speaker 4: We saw the director's cut here in Chicago, it was racy.

568
00:30:55,605 --> 00:30:58,725
Speaker 2: Bone and among the sheep, later the Bone among the sheep.

569
00:30:59,845 --> 00:31:02,565
Speaker 2: Speaking of the sheep, what about the sheep cast, I mean,

570
00:31:02,725 --> 00:31:07,605
Speaker 2: the folks that animated these sheep have that kind of

571
00:31:07,645 --> 00:31:10,965
Speaker 2: interesting thing going on where you want to be able

572
00:31:11,005 --> 00:31:13,605
Speaker 2: to tell the characters apart. But that means we've basically

573
00:31:13,605 --> 00:31:17,365
Speaker 2: got like a more or less pink sheep and a

574
00:31:17,445 --> 00:31:22,205
Speaker 2: black sheep, and a couple of big ram and a

575
00:31:22,325 --> 00:31:26,485
Speaker 2: teeny tiny speckled sheep and an even teenier tinier lamb.

576
00:31:26,925 --> 00:31:30,365
Speaker 2: Like they have to all be distinctive. They all have

577
00:31:30,445 --> 00:31:32,445
Speaker 2: to be distinctive enough that you can tell them apart

578
00:31:32,245 --> 00:31:36,245
Speaker 2: at a glance, but it still is kind of quite

579
00:31:36,325 --> 00:31:40,725
Speaker 2: the ensemble of sheep, many of whom don't have much

580
00:31:40,845 --> 00:31:45,805
Speaker 2: of a story purpose except comedic banter. What stands out

581
00:31:45,885 --> 00:31:47,925
Speaker 2: for you among the sheep group.

582
00:31:48,125 --> 00:31:51,365
Speaker 6: Well, first, I just want to note that the Wikipedia

583
00:31:51,365 --> 00:31:53,925
Speaker 6: page for this movie has a very helpful notation of

584
00:31:53,965 --> 00:31:57,685
Speaker 6: what kind of sheep each each is. There's a Shetland sheep,

585
00:31:57,685 --> 00:32:00,525
Speaker 6: an Icelandic leader sheep, a Merino sheep, and North Country

586
00:32:00,605 --> 00:32:05,045
Speaker 6: Chavoy sheep at a Lincoln Longville, so like they are

587
00:32:05,085 --> 00:32:08,045
Speaker 6: all like specific breeds of sheep, which I think is

588
00:32:08,085 --> 00:32:09,325
Speaker 6: actually pretty cool.

589
00:32:09,725 --> 00:32:13,525
Speaker 2: It is kind of amazing that this very rural like

590
00:32:13,805 --> 00:32:17,965
Speaker 2: like British small farm guy has so many exotic sheep

591
00:32:18,005 --> 00:32:19,445
Speaker 2: and just kind of one of every kind.

592
00:32:19,925 --> 00:32:21,845
Speaker 5: Yeah, I actually did not realized there are so many

593
00:32:21,885 --> 00:32:23,765
Speaker 5: types of sheep, So I'm grateful to the movie for

594
00:32:23,885 --> 00:32:24,965
Speaker 5: educating me about those.

595
00:32:25,205 --> 00:32:28,925
Speaker 6: Yeah, as far as like the actual cast, like, yeah,

596
00:32:28,965 --> 00:32:32,125
Speaker 6: there are like as much as I love Regina Hall,

597
00:32:32,245 --> 00:32:35,245
Speaker 6: I don't think Cloud the very pretty sheep, you know,

598
00:32:35,365 --> 00:32:39,005
Speaker 6: adds a whole lot to the proceedings here, or Patrick Stewart,

599
00:32:39,205 --> 00:32:41,685
Speaker 6: like it does kind of seem like a way to

600
00:32:41,805 --> 00:32:45,085
Speaker 6: just kind of get some more names into the cast

601
00:32:45,405 --> 00:32:49,445
Speaker 6: more than create characters. But they're characters who each come

602
00:32:49,565 --> 00:32:53,045
Speaker 6: like with an associated gag, which is a common move

603
00:32:53,205 --> 00:32:58,365
Speaker 6: for comedy ensembles, like the Brett Goldstein as the two Rams,

604
00:32:58,885 --> 00:33:02,365
Speaker 6: Like I did enjoy like the payoff moment of the

605
00:33:02,445 --> 00:33:05,285
Speaker 6: Rams finally getting to Ram something at the end, you know,

606
00:33:05,445 --> 00:33:10,045
Speaker 6: So like I think like each true Ram's name Reggie

607
00:33:10,045 --> 00:33:10,725
Speaker 6: and Ronnie.

608
00:33:11,125 --> 00:33:13,805
Speaker 5: Yeah, for the Krave Brothers who are identical twin gangsters

609
00:33:14,005 --> 00:33:16,005
Speaker 5: in like fifty sixties Britain.

610
00:33:16,085 --> 00:33:18,885
Speaker 2: Oh wow, yeah, I saw today.

611
00:33:18,925 --> 00:33:21,605
Speaker 4: I was a wanted to bring that up because that

612
00:33:21,725 --> 00:33:23,365
Speaker 4: was such a cool connection there.

613
00:33:23,725 --> 00:33:26,485
Speaker 6: But yes, I think like outside of like the main

614
00:33:26,925 --> 00:33:31,605
Speaker 6: trio of Julia, Louis Dreyfuss, Lily, Chris O'Dowd's Moppel and

615
00:33:31,645 --> 00:33:36,245
Speaker 6: Brian Cranston Sebastian, like they all have specific story functions,

616
00:33:36,485 --> 00:33:39,085
Speaker 6: whereas I think the rest more have joke functions.

617
00:33:39,325 --> 00:33:41,685
Speaker 5: I think it's I think it's worth noting that the

618
00:33:41,725 --> 00:33:44,765
Speaker 5: director of Ky Bald his live action I sort of

619
00:33:44,805 --> 00:33:47,045
Speaker 5: like action, abut he comes from from the world of

620
00:33:47,045 --> 00:33:49,965
Speaker 5: animation and his director of crewds include like Minions and

621
00:33:50,005 --> 00:33:54,005
Speaker 5: Distickle Me three and and another mini. So there's a

622
00:33:54,125 --> 00:33:57,605
Speaker 5: sort of like the one note comic characters. It's sort

623
00:33:57,645 --> 00:33:59,445
Speaker 5: of like it seems like it's poured it over from

624
00:33:59,485 --> 00:34:02,645
Speaker 5: that world in a way, but not. But I you know,

625
00:34:02,645 --> 00:34:04,045
Speaker 5: I'm not going to cut any these sheep. I like

626
00:34:04,045 --> 00:34:05,325
Speaker 5: all these sheep. They're fine.

627
00:34:05,445 --> 00:34:08,605
Speaker 2: Also, you know, he needs to have enough sheep on

628
00:34:08,645 --> 00:34:11,685
Speaker 2: his farm to make it believable that he's like got

629
00:34:11,805 --> 00:34:15,565
Speaker 2: like a going concern that is actually profitable, you know,

630
00:34:15,605 --> 00:34:19,364
Speaker 2: and in kind of stark contrast to the struggles of

631
00:34:19,925 --> 00:34:22,725
Speaker 2: Farmer Hoggett, he seems to be doing quite well for

632
00:34:22,844 --> 00:34:27,565
Speaker 2: himself and you know, making a significant enough profit that

633
00:34:27,844 --> 00:34:30,005
Speaker 2: he does some stuff with some money as we see.

634
00:34:30,565 --> 00:34:34,925
Speaker 2: So although it's possible that's because the wool itself is

635
00:34:34,965 --> 00:34:40,245
Speaker 2: not his main source of income, but still still, you know,

636
00:34:40,405 --> 00:34:44,445
Speaker 2: he's he's doing pretty well for himself with his remarkably

637
00:34:44,645 --> 00:34:49,605
Speaker 2: diverse sheep set. I guess while we're talking about resumes,

638
00:34:49,725 --> 00:34:52,565
Speaker 2: it should be noted that Craig Basin has just come

639
00:34:52,605 --> 00:34:56,005
Speaker 2: off The Last of Us and is the creator of Chernobyl,

640
00:34:56,445 --> 00:35:00,205
Speaker 2: but also the writer of the Hangover movies and Identity

641
00:35:00,205 --> 00:35:03,645
Speaker 2: Thief and some of the scary movies. You know, isn't

642
00:35:03,645 --> 00:35:07,925
Speaker 2: scary movie three scary movie? For this is an interesting

643
00:35:08,085 --> 00:35:11,205
Speaker 2: bridge between some of his very serious work and some

644
00:35:11,245 --> 00:35:12,565
Speaker 2: of his very silly work.

645
00:35:12,805 --> 00:35:14,925
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's kind of best of both worlds.

646
00:35:14,965 --> 00:35:17,565
Speaker 4: I guess, Ny he always does amazing job.

647
00:35:20,565 --> 00:35:24,605
Speaker 5: I think all that resume. I'm I've have a you know,

648
00:35:24,645 --> 00:35:28,005
Speaker 5: I'm not the hugest fan of the Hangover films.

649
00:35:28,325 --> 00:35:30,285
Speaker 4: If you say, if you want to say Chernobyl.

650
00:35:30,085 --> 00:35:33,725
Speaker 5: No, but yeah, Chernobyl, And I think I think Last

651
00:35:33,765 --> 00:35:35,685
Speaker 5: of Us is really quite a good show as well.

652
00:35:35,725 --> 00:35:38,205
Speaker 5: But yeah, Chernobyl, I think it's it's the real, real,

653
00:35:38,245 --> 00:35:40,965
Speaker 5: real bright Spot and Last of Us too, But this

654
00:35:41,005 --> 00:35:43,285
Speaker 5: is a nice I think it's a really nice use

655
00:35:43,285 --> 00:35:43,965
Speaker 5: of his talents.

656
00:35:44,245 --> 00:35:45,805
Speaker 2: Well, it does really make me want to read the

657
00:35:45,805 --> 00:35:48,485
Speaker 2: original novel and just see how much of it.

658
00:35:48,445 --> 00:35:51,085
Speaker 5: Can Someone explained the title to me too, because I

659
00:35:51,085 --> 00:35:53,765
Speaker 5: don't know how three bags full if it's unto this film,

660
00:35:53,805 --> 00:35:55,725
Speaker 5: but but yeah, someone's got to read it.

661
00:35:55,725 --> 00:35:57,005
Speaker 6: It's a nursery rhyme, right.

662
00:35:57,125 --> 00:36:00,285
Speaker 2: Yeah, baba black sheep, have you any well? But but

663
00:36:00,885 --> 00:36:02,645
Speaker 2: keeps making the point of like how does that fit in?

664
00:36:02,685 --> 00:36:05,884
Speaker 2: I mean there is a prominent black sheep, No.

665
00:36:05,845 --> 00:36:07,725
Speaker 5: I wish it was. It was that complicated. I just

666
00:36:07,725 --> 00:36:09,325
Speaker 5: didn't just didn't get the reference.

667
00:36:09,325 --> 00:36:17,645
Speaker 2: So well, Ba that at the risk of responding to

668
00:36:17,765 --> 00:36:20,364
Speaker 2: my own pun by holding my nose and running off

669
00:36:20,365 --> 00:36:23,845
Speaker 2: into the night. At the point where we start, like,

670
00:36:24,165 --> 00:36:27,045
Speaker 2: you know, breaking down into nursery rhymes, it's always time

671
00:36:27,085 --> 00:36:29,245
Speaker 2: to move into connections. So how about we take a

672
00:36:29,285 --> 00:36:31,845
Speaker 2: break and then come back and talk about how the

673
00:36:31,885 --> 00:36:40,405
Speaker 2: Sheep Detectives connects with Babe ping in the city.

674
00:36:41,045 --> 00:36:43,645
Speaker 3: You think you're brave enough to leave home. None of

675
00:36:43,645 --> 00:36:46,085
Speaker 3: you have ever left this meadow. Your hooves have never

676
00:36:46,125 --> 00:36:47,725
Speaker 3: touched anything but grass.

677
00:36:47,925 --> 00:36:49,565
Speaker 2: That's so hard about leaving home.

678
00:36:49,885 --> 00:36:50,925
Speaker 4: We're not scared.

679
00:36:56,845 --> 00:36:57,645
Speaker 2: But what is that?

680
00:36:57,805 --> 00:36:59,685
Speaker 1: I think it's a road, But what is it made of?

681
00:36:59,805 --> 00:37:03,325
Speaker 3: Well, lock grass, I can tell you that, Lily, Yes,

682
00:37:04,085 --> 00:37:10,685
Speaker 3: are you coming? I'm just you go on ahead. Why

683
00:37:10,925 --> 00:37:14,444
Speaker 3: are you yelling? I'm only a few feet away from you,

684
00:37:16,365 --> 00:37:19,404
Speaker 3: But it feels so far All you have to do

685
00:37:19,645 --> 00:37:33,525
Speaker 3: is cross the road.

686
00:37:32,845 --> 00:37:36,445
Speaker 6: Oh no, no, I can't.

687
00:37:37,005 --> 00:37:46,285
Speaker 2: It's impossible. Now it's time for connections, when we bring

688
00:37:46,325 --> 00:37:48,685
Speaker 2: these two films together and talk about all the things

689
00:37:48,725 --> 00:37:51,765
Speaker 2: they have in common. Uh, one thing I just wanted

690
00:37:51,765 --> 00:37:53,605
Speaker 2: to kind of bring up at the top was we

691
00:37:53,645 --> 00:37:56,285
Speaker 2: talked a little bit about the animal effects in Baby

692
00:37:56,325 --> 00:37:59,605
Speaker 2: Being in the City and how it was made basically

693
00:37:59,605 --> 00:38:03,845
Speaker 2: a thousand years ago in digital special effects years, heavy

694
00:38:04,005 --> 00:38:08,645
Speaker 2: heavy use of real trained animals throughout that movie, with

695
00:38:08,725 --> 00:38:12,445
Speaker 2: obviously digital alterations to make them talk and also you know,

696
00:38:12,485 --> 00:38:16,645
Speaker 2: some some puppetry and some other trickery. Whereas I have

697
00:38:16,765 --> 00:38:20,125
Speaker 2: not looked deeply into it, but just from the moat

698
00:38:20,285 --> 00:38:24,485
Speaker 2: movement and the visual qualities I kind of assumed the

699
00:38:24,485 --> 00:38:27,925
Speaker 2: sheep here were were mostly, if not all CG I.

700
00:38:27,885 --> 00:38:30,885
Speaker 5: Think, oh yeah.

701
00:38:30,085 --> 00:38:33,165
Speaker 2: I mean, just more and more dealing with the safety

702
00:38:33,245 --> 00:38:36,245
Speaker 2: of animals on sets is becoming a concern to the

703
00:38:36,245 --> 00:38:40,965
Speaker 2: point where people who have enough money to do fully

704
00:38:40,965 --> 00:38:44,205
Speaker 2: digital animals are doing them. How did those compare for

705
00:38:44,285 --> 00:38:48,245
Speaker 2: you as elements in these films? You know, the physicality

706
00:38:48,405 --> 00:38:50,645
Speaker 2: I guess of Babe Pig in the City, but also

707
00:38:50,685 --> 00:38:53,765
Speaker 2: the limits that puts on the production versus the you know,

708
00:38:53,805 --> 00:38:55,765
Speaker 2: we can kind of do anything, but also it's going

709
00:38:55,805 --> 00:38:59,005
Speaker 2: to look a little bit digital. Of sheep detectives.

710
00:38:58,685 --> 00:39:01,125
Speaker 5: Well, I mean I think with both of them, once

711
00:39:01,165 --> 00:39:03,485
Speaker 5: I set what the style is going to be and

712
00:39:03,485 --> 00:39:06,805
Speaker 5: they stay within that style. It's fine. You don't necessarily

713
00:39:06,845 --> 00:39:11,325
Speaker 5: expect this to look like Babe or vice versa. So yeah,

714
00:39:11,405 --> 00:39:14,325
Speaker 5: you know, I bought in on both of them, and

715
00:39:14,405 --> 00:39:16,805
Speaker 5: I think because I think the effects here are quite good,

716
00:39:17,405 --> 00:39:20,405
Speaker 5: you know, quite quite convincing. You know, they look like

717
00:39:20,445 --> 00:39:23,445
Speaker 5: real animal with a lot of with you know, the katok,

718
00:39:23,605 --> 00:39:26,365
Speaker 5: with a lot of personality to them as well. So

719
00:39:26,485 --> 00:39:28,725
Speaker 5: now I'm kind of on board with But I don't know,

720
00:39:28,725 --> 00:39:30,364
Speaker 5: I wouldn't have say one works and the other does,

721
00:39:30,365 --> 00:39:32,645
Speaker 5: and I think they both work. There's just different approaches

722
00:39:32,645 --> 00:39:35,205
Speaker 5: to the to the same sort of the same problem.

723
00:39:35,365 --> 00:39:37,805
Speaker 4: Yeah, they have different purposes. I mean, I think about

724
00:39:37,925 --> 00:39:40,365
Speaker 4: if you think about Babe Pig in the City, it

725
00:39:40,485 --> 00:39:43,725
Speaker 4: being a George Miller film, the physicality of it are

726
00:39:43,925 --> 00:39:47,245
Speaker 4: is so important that that that we understand them, you know,

727
00:39:47,525 --> 00:39:50,405
Speaker 4: as digital beings, they would not be have quite the

728
00:39:50,405 --> 00:39:54,085
Speaker 4: impact that they have here as you know, more real

729
00:39:54,125 --> 00:39:58,085
Speaker 4: and visceral effect, because you know, you really want that gravity,

730
00:39:58,125 --> 00:40:01,325
Speaker 4: that physicality to to be you know, a part of

731
00:40:01,925 --> 00:40:03,805
Speaker 4: Babe Pig in the City, I think, I think, and

732
00:40:03,925 --> 00:40:07,485
Speaker 4: it's not necessarily as important for that to be the

733
00:40:07,485 --> 00:40:09,925
Speaker 4: case in the Sheep Detectives and so it's really, as

734
00:40:10,005 --> 00:40:13,685
Speaker 4: he said, just about what what affects, what makes sense

735
00:40:13,725 --> 00:40:16,325
Speaker 4: for what you know, the different worlds and and the

736
00:40:16,365 --> 00:40:20,405
Speaker 4: different goals these movies have. All that. All that said,

737
00:40:20,445 --> 00:40:24,245
Speaker 4: I mean, the degree of difficulty in pulling off something

738
00:40:24,405 --> 00:40:27,805
Speaker 4: like Babe piging the City is seamlessly and I think

739
00:40:27,885 --> 00:40:31,045
Speaker 4: is as wonderfully as is that film does. I mean

740
00:40:31,085 --> 00:40:34,205
Speaker 4: that's it's special in a way that the effects in

741
00:40:34,845 --> 00:40:37,685
Speaker 4: Cheap Detector are not special. They're they're they're they're they're good,

742
00:40:37,725 --> 00:40:38,245
Speaker 4: they're fine.

743
00:40:38,685 --> 00:40:43,085
Speaker 6: Sort Of related to this is the voice casting of

744
00:40:43,125 --> 00:40:45,725
Speaker 6: these animals, because Babe Pig in the City, you know,

745
00:40:45,765 --> 00:40:49,685
Speaker 6: in addition to coming from an earlier era of practical

746
00:40:50,245 --> 00:40:53,445
Speaker 6: effects and as much as we are using real animals

747
00:40:53,485 --> 00:40:56,645
Speaker 6: to a certain degree, is also from an earlier era

748
00:40:56,765 --> 00:41:00,565
Speaker 6: of voice acting in or voice casting, I should say,

749
00:41:00,605 --> 00:41:04,125
Speaker 6: of this type of movie, like there are some recognizable

750
00:41:04,485 --> 00:41:08,605
Speaker 6: names in the voice cast. You know, Stephen Wright is

751
00:41:08,605 --> 00:41:12,205
Speaker 6: is Bob, and Glenn Hadley, you know, Adam Goldberg is Flee.

752
00:41:12,285 --> 00:41:15,125
Speaker 6: Like like there's some you know, known names in here,

753
00:41:15,165 --> 00:41:18,685
Speaker 6: but there's also some names who are known specifically as

754
00:41:18,885 --> 00:41:24,045
Speaker 6: voice actors. Babe eg Daily, who did not voice Babe

755
00:41:24,045 --> 00:41:27,685
Speaker 6: in the in the first film, you know, she's done

756
00:41:28,045 --> 00:41:33,485
Speaker 6: almost exclusively voice work. Jim Cummings is the Pelican. You know,

757
00:41:33,565 --> 00:41:36,445
Speaker 6: like there there's still a drive to use voice actors

758
00:41:36,485 --> 00:41:39,485
Speaker 6: here in a way that has really fallen by the

759
00:41:39,485 --> 00:41:43,844
Speaker 6: wayside in animation and CG such as this.

760
00:41:44,485 --> 00:41:47,725
Speaker 5: There's a famous person, Davy Navy Watch is credited with

761
00:41:47,765 --> 00:41:50,765
Speaker 5: additional voices. It's sort of like a per pre breakthrough.

762
00:41:50,885 --> 00:41:53,365
Speaker 5: So it's a famous name, but not famous at the

763
00:41:53,405 --> 00:41:54,485
Speaker 5: time necessarily.

764
00:41:55,565 --> 00:41:57,565
Speaker 6: Yeah, but I mean, like, you know, we just spent

765
00:41:57,885 --> 00:42:01,285
Speaker 6: so much time referring to the sheep and Sheep Detectives

766
00:42:01,325 --> 00:42:04,765
Speaker 6: by the you know, the famous actors who voice them,

767
00:42:04,845 --> 00:42:08,444
Speaker 6: you know, even more than their names. So like it's

768
00:42:08,485 --> 00:42:12,885
Speaker 6: not again, it's not necessarily a bad thing. It's just

769
00:42:13,205 --> 00:42:17,125
Speaker 6: a you know, kind of a reflection of you don't

770
00:42:17,165 --> 00:42:20,085
Speaker 6: you don't like it, it's Scott you you prefer Sheep

771
00:42:20,125 --> 00:42:23,845
Speaker 6: Detectives was cast entirely with voice actors whose names I know.

772
00:42:23,965 --> 00:42:25,285
Speaker 4: I just you said bad. I couldn't.

773
00:42:26,245 --> 00:42:29,285
Speaker 2: I had to kind of clench my lips to I.

774
00:42:29,205 --> 00:42:31,245
Speaker 4: Can see the Tasha. I can see the Tasha was

775
00:42:31,285 --> 00:42:33,805
Speaker 4: gonna do it, and I'm like, she's gonna help she's

776
00:42:33,805 --> 00:42:35,364
Speaker 4: gonna hold back here, I'm not gonna do it. I'm

777
00:42:35,365 --> 00:42:36,045
Speaker 4: not gonna do it.

778
00:42:36,365 --> 00:42:38,525
Speaker 2: I was. I was mostly holding back to not interrupt,

779
00:42:38,525 --> 00:42:39,885
Speaker 2: but I did really want to go, oh, do you

780
00:42:39,925 --> 00:42:40,924
Speaker 2: mean bad?

781
00:42:42,205 --> 00:42:43,365
Speaker 6: But we can't do that.

782
00:42:43,485 --> 00:42:47,845
Speaker 2: We can't do that every time somebody, somebody brings up badness. Scott,

783
00:42:47,885 --> 00:42:50,725
Speaker 2: you kind of touched on the different worlds and the

784
00:42:50,765 --> 00:42:54,605
Speaker 2: different purposes that these films have, but the concept of

785
00:42:54,605 --> 00:42:56,924
Speaker 2: different worlds comes up in both of them. In the

786
00:42:56,925 --> 00:42:59,645
Speaker 2: These Are Both I kind of talked at the top

787
00:42:59,685 --> 00:43:05,445
Speaker 2: of the last movie about talking animal movies and the

788
00:43:05,565 --> 00:43:08,325
Speaker 2: kind of the different functions that they have. When we're

789
00:43:08,325 --> 00:43:12,205
Speaker 2: talking about adult movies, there's also a whole taxonomy of

790
00:43:12,805 --> 00:43:16,205
Speaker 2: like can people understand the talking animals? Are there any

791
00:43:16,245 --> 00:43:18,285
Speaker 2: people in a talking animals movie? Or is it just

792
00:43:18,325 --> 00:43:23,245
Speaker 2: an animals movie. These movies have in common the idea

793
00:43:23,485 --> 00:43:27,725
Speaker 2: that you know, toy story, like, all of the animals

794
00:43:27,765 --> 00:43:31,085
Speaker 2: can communicate with each other equally. You know, predators pray.

795
00:43:31,285 --> 00:43:34,925
Speaker 2: Regardless of simplicity or complexity of animal, they can all

796
00:43:34,925 --> 00:43:36,925
Speaker 2: communicate with each other, and they have their own words.

797
00:43:37,325 --> 00:43:40,485
Speaker 2: None of them can communicate with humans. Both. That's that's

798
00:43:40,525 --> 00:43:42,965
Speaker 2: true in both of these movies. It's kind of the

799
00:43:43,845 --> 00:43:50,005
Speaker 2: Secret Life of kind of phenomenon. And honestly, that feels

800
00:43:50,045 --> 00:43:52,765
Speaker 2: like one of the biggest connections between them, you know,

801
00:43:52,805 --> 00:43:56,405
Speaker 2: these two movies that do have pretty different tones and intents,

802
00:43:57,205 --> 00:44:00,165
Speaker 2: and to some degree, I would say even audience intentions.

803
00:44:00,325 --> 00:44:02,725
Speaker 2: Do both kind of explore the same kind of like

804
00:44:03,725 --> 00:44:05,844
Speaker 2: animals are much smarter than you think. They all are

805
00:44:05,885 --> 00:44:09,525
Speaker 2: talking to each other all the time, but they're still

806
00:44:09,805 --> 00:44:13,364
Speaker 2: very much tied up in human business because they have

807
00:44:13,445 --> 00:44:16,165
Speaker 2: to be for survival purposes. It's kind of like both

808
00:44:16,205 --> 00:44:19,325
Speaker 2: of these movies are kind of encouraging us to look

809
00:44:19,365 --> 00:44:20,725
Speaker 2: at animals a little differently.

810
00:44:21,045 --> 00:44:24,765
Speaker 6: I agree. But also just to clarify, and in sheep detectives,

811
00:44:24,965 --> 00:44:28,285
Speaker 6: do we see the sheep talking to other because I

812
00:44:28,325 --> 00:44:32,365
Speaker 6: think the only non sheep animals we experienced are the dogs,

813
00:44:33,205 --> 00:44:38,405
Speaker 6: who I think are the talk to the dogs.

814
00:44:37,245 --> 00:44:40,205
Speaker 2: If the dogs understand them. I guess I took that

815
00:44:40,285 --> 00:44:45,245
Speaker 2: as the dogs not engaging with them, you know, in

816
00:44:45,285 --> 00:44:48,364
Speaker 2: two different places for two different reasons. But you do

817
00:44:48,445 --> 00:44:50,884
Speaker 2: make a good point that I guess there isn't any

818
00:44:50,925 --> 00:44:55,805
Speaker 2: reason to be certain that the dogs understand them.

819
00:44:55,885 --> 00:44:57,925
Speaker 4: Maybe if one of them were drowning in a canal.

820
00:44:59,885 --> 00:45:01,925
Speaker 2: It's been a little while since I saw Sheep Detectives

821
00:45:01,965 --> 00:45:04,285
Speaker 2: because I saw it earlier than everybody else, But I

822
00:45:04,325 --> 00:45:06,925
Speaker 2: do seem to remember in the barn there being a

823
00:45:07,285 --> 00:45:09,404
Speaker 2: you shouldn't be in here, a moment that was from

824
00:45:09,405 --> 00:45:10,085
Speaker 2: one of the dogs.

825
00:45:10,925 --> 00:45:13,884
Speaker 6: Might be right, it ultimately doesn't matter, because I think,

826
00:45:14,125 --> 00:45:18,845
Speaker 6: like the broader point about, you know, the animal human

827
00:45:18,965 --> 00:45:24,685
Speaker 6: communication divide is the core of this connection and the

828
00:45:24,765 --> 00:45:29,085
Speaker 6: humans in this story being oblivious to sort of the

829
00:45:29,125 --> 00:45:31,924
Speaker 6: world that these animals share and the way that they

830
00:45:32,325 --> 00:45:36,645
Speaker 6: communicate with each other. Although The Sheep Detectives does have

831
00:45:36,725 --> 00:45:41,485
Speaker 6: some you know, pretty fun sequences of attempts by the

832
00:45:41,485 --> 00:45:45,205
Speaker 6: sheep to communicate with the omblivious humans.

833
00:45:45,445 --> 00:45:48,325
Speaker 4: You know, I mean that disconnect is actually a point

834
00:45:48,405 --> 00:45:51,725
Speaker 4: in comedically, is a point in The Sheep Detectives favor

835
00:45:51,845 --> 00:45:54,165
Speaker 4: that is an element of that film that I enjoyed

836
00:45:54,565 --> 00:45:57,085
Speaker 4: quite a bit from from right at the beginning, where

837
00:45:57,285 --> 00:46:00,805
Speaker 4: Hugh Jackman is reading the readius who done it? It

838
00:46:00,805 --> 00:46:03,805
Speaker 4: gets them to this point of the story that's completely

839
00:46:03,845 --> 00:46:06,805
Speaker 4: unsatisfying and very frustrating for the shape he does not

840
00:46:06,885 --> 00:46:10,285
Speaker 4: realize that they're upset that he left them hanging the

841
00:46:10,325 --> 00:46:12,245
Speaker 4: way he did. I think that's that's really good, and

842
00:46:12,285 --> 00:46:17,404
Speaker 4: just the idea of I found it consistently funny. Eddie

843
00:46:17,405 --> 00:46:21,805
Speaker 4: attempts to reach Nicholas brawn Is as he's trying to

844
00:46:21,845 --> 00:46:25,685
Speaker 4: figure this mystery out. Is all that is common gold

845
00:46:25,965 --> 00:46:28,005
Speaker 4: because I think on both ends. I think again that

846
00:46:28,085 --> 00:46:30,285
Speaker 4: the casting of Brown and a role like that is

847
00:46:31,045 --> 00:46:34,645
Speaker 4: is key, and then I just think it's a conceptual

848
00:46:34,885 --> 00:46:36,805
Speaker 4: payoff that just works time and time again.

849
00:46:36,965 --> 00:46:40,725
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agreed. The cutting back and forth between you know,

850
00:46:40,765 --> 00:46:42,885
Speaker 2: what the animals are trying to communicate and what the

851
00:46:42,965 --> 00:46:46,965
Speaker 2: humans here is just a gag. Thankfully they don't overdo it.

852
00:46:47,045 --> 00:46:50,645
Speaker 2: If there were like five more instances of it, it

853
00:46:50,645 --> 00:46:54,365
Speaker 2: would probably stop being funny. But they're careful enough about

854
00:46:54,405 --> 00:46:56,005
Speaker 2: it that I laughed every time.

855
00:46:56,405 --> 00:46:59,525
Speaker 6: So this is probably a good segue into talking about

856
00:46:59,605 --> 00:47:06,165
Speaker 6: just the human animal relations of these two movies more broadly. Tasha,

857
00:47:06,205 --> 00:47:11,045
Speaker 6: you sort of alluded to the central tension of these

858
00:47:11,325 --> 00:47:16,085
Speaker 6: animals existing in a world where they are primarily intended

859
00:47:16,205 --> 00:47:20,685
Speaker 6: to be food for humans, But both of these movies

860
00:47:20,685 --> 00:47:26,005
Speaker 6: have kind of set up scenarios where that isn't the case.

861
00:47:26,285 --> 00:47:28,765
Speaker 6: Bay Pig in the City kind of like dealt with

862
00:47:29,005 --> 00:47:32,964
Speaker 6: that aspect of it in the first movie, so it's

863
00:47:33,045 --> 00:47:36,325
Speaker 6: not really as present here, although there are some sort

864
00:47:36,325 --> 00:47:40,725
Speaker 6: of like ham jokes, you know, sprinkle sprinkled throughout, but

865
00:47:41,405 --> 00:47:46,685
Speaker 6: sort of the predator prey relationship between humans and food

866
00:47:46,725 --> 00:47:50,205
Speaker 6: animals is still or even non food animals is present

867
00:47:50,645 --> 00:47:52,765
Speaker 6: in Pig in the City in the form of various

868
00:47:52,805 --> 00:47:57,605
Speaker 6: animal haters. You know, you have the neighbor across the street,

869
00:47:57,965 --> 00:48:01,045
Speaker 6: and of course the animal control Hortans, yes, and then

870
00:48:01,045 --> 00:48:03,885
Speaker 6: the animal control which also seems to maybe be running

871
00:48:03,885 --> 00:48:08,444
Speaker 6: a lab of some sort animal Jennifer can Yeah, yeah,

872
00:48:08,805 --> 00:48:13,605
Speaker 6: I'm not quite sure where that entered the picture, but

873
00:48:13,885 --> 00:48:16,765
Speaker 6: it ultimately doesn't matter. And then like on the sheep

874
00:48:16,845 --> 00:48:21,725
Speaker 6: detective side of the ledger, you have sort of this reveal,

875
00:48:22,085 --> 00:48:26,765
Speaker 6: you know, of a of a plan to turn George's sheep,

876
00:48:26,845 --> 00:48:29,645
Speaker 6: which he is expressly you know, I think he's also

877
00:48:29,685 --> 00:48:33,325
Speaker 6: a vegetarian. We keep having these like vegetarian human companions

878
00:48:33,325 --> 00:48:36,485
Speaker 6: to our animals to sort of get around that central tension.

879
00:48:36,925 --> 00:48:39,325
Speaker 6: But like I said, you have sort of this threat

880
00:48:39,605 --> 00:48:42,404
Speaker 6: of you know, the sheep who are being raised only

881
00:48:42,445 --> 00:48:46,245
Speaker 6: for their will, you know, being threatened with becoming meat.

882
00:48:46,725 --> 00:48:49,325
Speaker 4: So one point of contrast between the two movies is

883
00:48:49,805 --> 00:48:53,845
Speaker 4: that with the Sheep Detectives, the relationship between human and

884
00:48:53,965 --> 00:48:58,605
Speaker 4: animals is a gap that is bridged or is attempted

885
00:48:58,645 --> 00:49:02,125
Speaker 4: to be bridged often in the movie in this mystery,

886
00:49:02,645 --> 00:49:04,884
Speaker 4: and I think in Babe picking in the city, those

887
00:49:04,925 --> 00:49:07,725
Speaker 4: adventures become separate, where you know, where as somebody kind

888
00:49:07,725 --> 00:49:11,005
Speaker 4: of goes off on her you know, odyssey through the

889
00:49:11,045 --> 00:49:13,885
Speaker 4: system and and really and really you get back to

890
00:49:14,005 --> 00:49:17,525
Speaker 4: this core dynamic that was also president in the first Babe,

891
00:49:17,525 --> 00:49:21,364
Speaker 4: which is which is about Babe trying to win over

892
00:49:21,805 --> 00:49:23,884
Speaker 4: a bunch of other animals who are hostile to him

893
00:49:24,045 --> 00:49:27,965
Speaker 4: at first until uh tell he uh, through his actions,

894
00:49:28,365 --> 00:49:30,364
Speaker 4: you know, changes their mind. So so there's a little

895
00:49:30,365 --> 00:49:32,845
Speaker 4: bit of a difference there in terms of, you know,

896
00:49:32,965 --> 00:49:36,605
Speaker 4: that connection. And of course, you know, as we said before,

897
00:49:36,645 --> 00:49:39,165
Speaker 4: I mean, you know, unlike unlike Babe, which which has

898
00:49:39,205 --> 00:49:43,685
Speaker 4: that really warm relationship between Babe and Hoggett, Esmay is

899
00:49:43,725 --> 00:49:48,285
Speaker 4: not as doesn't have that connection with Babe, and this film,

900
00:49:48,325 --> 00:49:52,885
Speaker 4: the film does not try to make that happen. Really,

901
00:49:53,005 --> 00:49:54,925
Speaker 4: it's not really the priority of this movie. So it's

902
00:49:54,925 --> 00:49:57,365
Speaker 4: a little different in terms of what that what that

903
00:49:57,765 --> 00:49:59,325
Speaker 4: human animal dynamic is.

904
00:49:59,725 --> 00:50:03,245
Speaker 5: I mean, Babe wants to save the farm, but for

905
00:50:03,445 --> 00:50:06,845
Speaker 5: much of the film it's more about Babe wants to

906
00:50:07,125 --> 00:50:11,725
Speaker 5: not die, whereas The Sheep Detectives is very much about

907
00:50:11,765 --> 00:50:17,484
Speaker 5: the sheep tending's this unfinished business with their companion's death.

908
00:50:17,805 --> 00:50:19,925
Speaker 2: It's very much we also get to a point of

909
00:50:20,005 --> 00:50:21,364
Speaker 2: but we also don't want to die.

910
00:50:21,845 --> 00:50:23,605
Speaker 5: That's true, that's true, but it almost feels like that

911
00:50:23,685 --> 00:50:26,685
Speaker 5: arises out of the first where it's it's not it's

912
00:50:26,725 --> 00:50:30,205
Speaker 5: less of a tail of survival than than Babe Pig

913
00:50:30,205 --> 00:50:30,725
Speaker 5: in the City.

914
00:50:31,365 --> 00:50:34,325
Speaker 2: I think in both of these cases, though, you have

915
00:50:35,085 --> 00:50:38,605
Speaker 2: animals wanting to protect their home farm and protect their

916
00:50:38,685 --> 00:50:41,645
Speaker 2: their one beloved, and the fact that the beloved is

917
00:50:41,685 --> 00:50:45,525
Speaker 2: mostly off screen during Baby Pig in the City doesn't

918
00:50:45,565 --> 00:50:48,484
Speaker 2: really make it all that different from Sheep Detectives, because

919
00:50:48,525 --> 00:50:51,645
Speaker 2: in Sheep Detectives, the beloved dies halfway through.

920
00:50:52,005 --> 00:50:54,365
Speaker 5: So it's true of Babe, but it's not necessarily true

921
00:50:54,405 --> 00:50:57,605
Speaker 5: of all the other animals. And Babe Pig in the City.

922
00:50:58,205 --> 00:51:01,844
Speaker 2: Oh, that's that's absolutely true, and in the same sort

923
00:51:01,845 --> 00:51:06,645
Speaker 2: of way the sheep ensemble in Sheep Detectives, you know,

924
00:51:06,725 --> 00:51:09,005
Speaker 2: none of them it's it's emphasized over and over that

925
00:51:09,045 --> 00:51:13,005
Speaker 2: Lily has kind of a special connection with the with

926
00:51:13,085 --> 00:51:18,685
Speaker 2: Hugh Jackman's farmer character. You know, she holds onto the

927
00:51:18,725 --> 00:51:22,085
Speaker 2: thought of him, and she and Mabel and some all have,

928
00:51:22,965 --> 00:51:26,245
Speaker 2: for various different reasons, a stronger connection with him than

929
00:51:26,285 --> 00:51:28,805
Speaker 2: the others. So, I mean, you do kind of have

930
00:51:28,845 --> 00:51:33,925
Speaker 2: an ensemble of sheep who like they care that their

931
00:51:34,005 --> 00:51:36,525
Speaker 2: owner and master is gone, Like they care that their

932
00:51:36,525 --> 00:51:39,685
Speaker 2: circumstances have changed, but they also don't really fully grasp

933
00:51:39,725 --> 00:51:42,885
Speaker 2: it and aren't nearly as engaged with it. And I

934
00:51:42,925 --> 00:51:46,165
Speaker 2: think to some degree they do mirror the kind of

935
00:51:46,205 --> 00:51:49,924
Speaker 2: like cloud of other animals in Pig in the City.

936
00:51:49,965 --> 00:51:53,765
Speaker 2: They're just much less invested in kind of the central thing.

937
00:51:53,885 --> 00:51:57,885
Speaker 2: Like in both cases, the human animal relationships are kind

938
00:51:57,925 --> 00:52:01,805
Speaker 2: of there's this one person who gets me and who

939
00:52:01,845 --> 00:52:03,925
Speaker 2: I have to save, and then there's the rest of

940
00:52:03,965 --> 00:52:06,565
Speaker 2: the world, and the rest of the world can seem

941
00:52:06,685 --> 00:52:11,405
Speaker 2: arbitrary or predatory or you know, just indifferent in a

942
00:52:11,405 --> 00:52:13,885
Speaker 2: lot of ways. It just it feels like in both

943
00:52:13,965 --> 00:52:18,844
Speaker 2: cases it's about holding onto one special relationship that has

944
00:52:18,925 --> 00:52:23,925
Speaker 2: defined your life and maybe not really understanding the rest

945
00:52:23,965 --> 00:52:26,925
Speaker 2: of the world. Which you know who doesn't feel like that.

946
00:52:27,005 --> 00:52:30,045
Speaker 6: Sometimes I feel like this is a good point to

947
00:52:30,205 --> 00:52:34,685
Speaker 6: talk about Miss Flume in a pig in this city,

948
00:52:34,885 --> 00:52:40,685
Speaker 6: the proprietor of the hotel that is a sanctuary for

949
00:52:41,085 --> 00:52:46,325
Speaker 6: these stray animals, you know, And as far as because Scott,

950
00:52:46,405 --> 00:52:49,605
Speaker 6: you are saying how as May is kind of maybe

951
00:52:49,645 --> 00:52:52,965
Speaker 6: a little indifferent to Babe or like, you know, she's

952
00:52:52,965 --> 00:52:55,605
Speaker 6: separate from separated from him for a lot of the film,

953
00:52:55,645 --> 00:52:59,245
Speaker 6: and is her relationship to him is more about her

954
00:52:59,525 --> 00:53:03,325
Speaker 6: saving the farm and you know, her husband less care

955
00:53:03,445 --> 00:53:07,485
Speaker 6: for Babe as a creature or just animals generally. And

956
00:53:07,525 --> 00:53:11,325
Speaker 6: I think we do get that care for animals generally

957
00:53:11,565 --> 00:53:14,525
Speaker 6: in the form of Miss Flume, who has set up

958
00:53:14,605 --> 00:53:19,404
Speaker 6: this refuge of sorts. The film doesn't like do a

959
00:53:19,445 --> 00:53:23,285
Speaker 6: whole lot of exploration of of her or like why

960
00:53:23,325 --> 00:53:26,965
Speaker 6: she did that or her feelings about it. It almost

961
00:53:27,085 --> 00:53:32,725
Speaker 6: seems a burden to a degree. But it did make

962
00:53:32,805 --> 00:53:37,045
Speaker 6: me think about her in relation to George and kind

963
00:53:37,085 --> 00:53:41,285
Speaker 6: of like creating this sanctuary for animals where they are

964
00:53:41,325 --> 00:53:44,404
Speaker 6: safe and they are are not going to be uh

965
00:53:44,645 --> 00:53:47,925
Speaker 6: preyed on by the world, whether that world wants to

966
00:53:47,965 --> 00:53:50,085
Speaker 6: eat them or put them in cages or do tests

967
00:53:50,085 --> 00:53:54,365
Speaker 6: on them or whatever. You know, she is their their protector,

968
00:53:54,885 --> 00:53:59,085
Speaker 6: and none of the animals seem to have a She

969
00:53:59,205 --> 00:54:02,605
Speaker 6: is not there beloved to use Tasha's term, you know,

970
00:54:03,045 --> 00:54:06,445
Speaker 6: but she is like really important in terms of their

971
00:54:06,525 --> 00:54:10,325
Speaker 6: their fate, and you know, she, I guess gets sort

972
00:54:10,365 --> 00:54:13,045
Speaker 6: of a happily ever after of her own as a reward.

973
00:54:13,845 --> 00:54:17,405
Speaker 4: The phrase that the movie does use the phrase you're human,

974
00:54:17,765 --> 00:54:21,445
Speaker 4: that my human. You know, that's something that they says

975
00:54:21,485 --> 00:54:23,725
Speaker 4: a lot. So I think there is that, you know,

976
00:54:23,805 --> 00:54:25,565
Speaker 4: I think they would refer to refer to her as

977
00:54:25,565 --> 00:54:28,045
Speaker 4: well as their human. But I think you're right, and

978
00:54:28,085 --> 00:54:29,525
Speaker 4: I think I think if you're if you really want

979
00:54:29,525 --> 00:54:33,445
Speaker 4: to like dwell on that character a little further. You know,

980
00:54:33,725 --> 00:54:37,245
Speaker 4: the burden that she's she's carrying in defense of her

981
00:54:37,285 --> 00:54:40,005
Speaker 4: beliefs and her principles in terms of you know, setting

982
00:54:40,085 --> 00:54:43,085
Speaker 4: up this this refuge and how she's you know, what

983
00:54:43,165 --> 00:54:45,445
Speaker 4: kind of existence she has to have about how she

984
00:54:45,525 --> 00:54:47,765
Speaker 4: has to hide this from her neighbors who are hostile

985
00:54:47,805 --> 00:54:50,364
Speaker 4: to it would be hostile to the idea of her

986
00:54:50,405 --> 00:54:53,605
Speaker 4: doing this, and then she has to try to keep

987
00:54:53,645 --> 00:54:56,045
Speaker 4: the chaos at bay, you know, because these are animals

988
00:54:56,085 --> 00:54:58,485
Speaker 4: and they can get into trouble. So, you know, it

989
00:54:58,485 --> 00:55:01,605
Speaker 4: seems like every part of running this entire operation, you know,

990
00:55:01,725 --> 00:55:04,605
Speaker 4: is an act of great self sacrifice on her part,

991
00:55:04,725 --> 00:55:07,485
Speaker 4: and not necessarily something that she gets a lot of

992
00:55:07,565 --> 00:55:10,605
Speaker 4: joy out of, but feels is a is a worthwhile

993
00:55:10,925 --> 00:55:12,205
Speaker 4: mission to me.

994
00:55:12,405 --> 00:55:16,964
Speaker 2: The Miss Flume equivalent in Sheep Detectives is Nicholas Brown's cop.

995
00:55:17,365 --> 00:55:23,565
Speaker 2: You know, they are both exaggeratedly tall, gangly people who

996
00:55:23,925 --> 00:55:27,285
Speaker 2: have a relationship with the animals that is not the

997
00:55:27,325 --> 00:55:31,725
Speaker 2: beloved position, but they are, I guess, sort of out there.

998
00:55:31,885 --> 00:55:35,845
Speaker 2: They're odd balls who are outside the regular space of

999
00:55:35,925 --> 00:55:40,445
Speaker 2: humanity and as a result kind of have half connection

1000
00:55:40,685 --> 00:55:44,525
Speaker 2: to the animal world. The cop, Tien Dary, does start

1001
00:55:44,525 --> 00:55:47,525
Speaker 2: figuring out, like fairly early on that the sheep are

1002
00:55:47,525 --> 00:55:50,645
Speaker 2: trying to tell him something, and I'm glad that the

1003
00:55:50,685 --> 00:55:53,405
Speaker 2: film doesn't belabor the point of but there's just sheep.

1004
00:55:53,445 --> 00:55:57,805
Speaker 2: They couldn't possibly be. But much as we enjoyed we

1005
00:55:57,885 --> 00:56:01,365
Speaker 2: talked about enjoying the comedic back and forth between here's

1006
00:56:01,365 --> 00:56:03,485
Speaker 2: what the sheep are saying and here's what humans are hearing,

1007
00:56:04,125 --> 00:56:09,245
Speaker 2: I enjoyed seeing the sheep through his eyes is he

1008
00:56:09,885 --> 00:56:12,844
Speaker 2: sort of catches on a little bit to what's going on.

1009
00:56:13,405 --> 00:56:17,045
Speaker 2: It just keeps looking up and seeing them. This flume

1010
00:56:17,165 --> 00:56:21,444
Speaker 2: doesn't seem to care too much about the condition under

1011
00:56:21,525 --> 00:56:25,685
Speaker 2: which her many many charges are kept safe. That seems

1012
00:56:25,685 --> 00:56:29,925
Speaker 2: like a very chaotic, unsanitary, and kind of unpleasant house

1013
00:56:29,965 --> 00:56:30,445
Speaker 2: to be in.

1014
00:56:30,845 --> 00:56:33,245
Speaker 5: Nor does she seem to feed them at all, because

1015
00:56:33,605 --> 00:56:35,605
Speaker 5: we're defended for themselves on that front.

1016
00:56:35,725 --> 00:56:38,765
Speaker 6: She also may have inherited it somehow or like fallen

1017
00:56:38,765 --> 00:56:43,445
Speaker 6: into it by way of Uncle Fugley Mickey Rooney's character.

1018
00:56:43,925 --> 00:56:47,765
Speaker 6: It is Chimpanzee act. Yeah, like I said, her backstory

1019
00:56:47,885 --> 00:56:51,365
Speaker 6: is murky at best as it relates to the hotel.

1020
00:56:52,485 --> 00:56:56,245
Speaker 2: Scott mentioned the whole idea of like dealing with your neighbors,

1021
00:56:56,245 --> 00:56:59,645
Speaker 2: which Genevie had kind of called out as another connection

1022
00:56:59,685 --> 00:57:03,685
Speaker 2: between these two movies is in both cases there are

1023
00:57:04,565 --> 00:57:08,325
Speaker 2: predatory neighbors who don't understand people who like animals. And

1024
00:57:08,365 --> 00:57:11,085
Speaker 2: now we're back to the empathy gap because in both

1025
00:57:11,205 --> 00:57:16,645
Speaker 2: cases kind of some of the low level villainy comes

1026
00:57:16,645 --> 00:57:19,525
Speaker 2: from the world and just the hostility of the world,

1027
00:57:19,685 --> 00:57:21,605
Speaker 2: and some of it just comes from, you know, having

1028
00:57:21,685 --> 00:57:25,605
Speaker 2: neighbors who either want what you have or want you

1029
00:57:25,645 --> 00:57:29,525
Speaker 2: to not have what you have. As a side note

1030
00:57:29,565 --> 00:57:32,565
Speaker 2: into alternate versions of Babe Pig in the City, that

1031
00:57:32,765 --> 00:57:36,405
Speaker 2: original script that had Farmer Haguen dying in the well

1032
00:57:36,965 --> 00:57:40,325
Speaker 2: also had that nosy neighbor being murdered by Esmey and

1033
00:57:40,365 --> 00:57:42,085
Speaker 2: the and and Babe in the animals.

1034
00:57:42,685 --> 00:57:44,725
Speaker 6: Was any was anyone going to come out at that

1035
00:57:44,805 --> 00:57:46,085
Speaker 6: original script alive?

1036
00:57:47,525 --> 00:57:51,045
Speaker 2: I haven't actually seen the script. I've just you know,

1037
00:57:51,165 --> 00:57:54,605
Speaker 2: read histories of it, So I am very curious what

1038
00:57:54,725 --> 00:57:58,005
Speaker 2: happens to Esmey, Like does she get away with the

1039
00:57:58,085 --> 00:58:01,165
Speaker 2: murder along with the animals to like what what happens

1040
00:58:01,205 --> 00:58:02,085
Speaker 2: as a result of that.

1041
00:58:02,725 --> 00:58:05,405
Speaker 5: On general principle, I don't like to see a director

1042
00:58:05,445 --> 00:58:08,205
Speaker 5: with a strong creative vision had that vision watered down.

1043
00:58:08,485 --> 00:58:13,405
Speaker 5: But every single change is a good change, and that

1044
00:58:13,525 --> 00:58:16,565
Speaker 5: should have been changed about that that screenplay.

1045
00:58:16,045 --> 00:58:18,005
Speaker 4: I think. I think though Keith, you would have enjoyed

1046
00:58:18,045 --> 00:58:19,965
Speaker 4: all of the all the gremlins that he was going

1047
00:58:20,005 --> 00:58:23,885
Speaker 4: to have to this movie as well. So hate to

1048
00:58:23,885 --> 00:58:27,245
Speaker 4: see all those fun gremlins not make the cut either.

1049
00:58:27,925 --> 00:58:30,285
Speaker 2: Max was going to come through and shoot a few people,

1050
00:58:30,445 --> 00:58:32,325
Speaker 2: like on his way to find some more gasoline.

1051
00:58:32,565 --> 00:58:37,005
Speaker 6: I don't think we've actually mentioned Sheep Detective's neighbor figure

1052
00:58:37,205 --> 00:58:42,365
Speaker 6: Caleb played by Tozan Cole, who is introduced as a

1053
00:58:42,685 --> 00:58:48,885
Speaker 6: seemingly nice carrying guy who you know, wants to buy

1054
00:58:49,565 --> 00:58:54,725
Speaker 6: George's flock for reasons that you can probably infer, but

1055
00:58:54,805 --> 00:58:58,725
Speaker 6: the movie kind of holds back on confirming until the

1056
00:58:59,125 --> 00:59:02,085
Speaker 6: big moment that that it does. But you know, he is.

1057
00:59:03,045 --> 00:59:08,885
Speaker 6: He's not introduced to us as nefarious and adversarial the

1058
00:59:08,925 --> 00:59:11,365
Speaker 6: way that Horton's is. You know, the sheep really like him.

1059
00:59:11,645 --> 00:59:13,725
Speaker 6: You know, they think his sweater is beautiful and they

1060
00:59:13,805 --> 00:59:16,565
Speaker 6: and they're they're very entranced by the dogs. You know,

1061
00:59:17,765 --> 00:59:22,125
Speaker 6: they have a very innocent reaction to him. And it's

1062
00:59:22,365 --> 00:59:26,285
Speaker 6: George the human who is antagonistic toward him because he

1063
00:59:26,445 --> 00:59:30,765
Speaker 6: is aware of Caleb's real intentions. But we are introduced

1064
00:59:30,805 --> 00:59:33,965
Speaker 6: to him through the sheep's perspective, so I feel like that.

1065
00:59:33,965 --> 00:59:38,565
Speaker 2: Never really drops either. We see his farm and what

1066
00:59:38,645 --> 00:59:41,245
Speaker 2: it's like, and we see what the dogs on his

1067
00:59:41,325 --> 00:59:42,965
Speaker 2: farm or like, and we see what the sheep on

1068
00:59:42,965 --> 00:59:45,405
Speaker 2: his farm are like, and we can infer all sorts

1069
00:59:45,445 --> 00:59:48,125
Speaker 2: of things from that, But I don't think he ever

1070
00:59:48,365 --> 00:59:53,445
Speaker 2: gets a a public face. Heel turn where he drops

1071
00:59:53,485 --> 00:59:57,725
Speaker 2: that persona and that feels pretty subversive, just the fact

1072
00:59:57,725 --> 01:00:01,165
Speaker 2: that he just he's carrying on being a nice guy

1073
01:00:01,245 --> 01:00:05,045
Speaker 2: with good intentions. We just have seen like what his

1074
01:00:05,165 --> 01:00:08,845
Speaker 2: works are and what the result would be. Also really

1075
01:00:08,845 --> 01:00:12,325
Speaker 2: short sighted of him to want all of these incredibly

1076
01:00:12,365 --> 01:00:16,765
Speaker 2: exotic sheep from all around the world just for meat purposes.

1077
01:00:16,405 --> 01:00:19,805
Speaker 5: Which I maybe I don't know enough about mutton consumption,

1078
01:00:19,965 --> 01:00:22,805
Speaker 5: but doesn't seem like it's enough to really make your

1079
01:00:22,805 --> 01:00:26,645
Speaker 5: fortune off of. I don't know, maybe I'm ignorant to

1080
01:00:26,685 --> 01:00:28,565
Speaker 5: the wide appeal of mutton.

1081
01:00:29,125 --> 01:00:33,125
Speaker 6: Well, he's in cahoots or perhaps been swayed by the

1082
01:00:33,165 --> 01:00:38,005
Speaker 6: butcher Ham Yes by konleth Hill.

1083
01:00:38,285 --> 01:00:40,805
Speaker 2: On that note, I will say we've talked a bunch

1084
01:00:40,805 --> 01:00:45,405
Speaker 2: about sheep. Detective's quirk of sheep being that they're capable

1085
01:00:45,525 --> 01:00:49,245
Speaker 2: of forgetting anything that they find unpleasant that they don't

1086
01:00:49,285 --> 01:00:51,845
Speaker 2: want to deal with it that gives them bad feelings.

1087
01:00:52,445 --> 01:00:55,325
Speaker 2: I actually think that there's an interesting parallel to that

1088
01:00:55,725 --> 01:00:58,925
Speaker 2: in Babe Pig in the City that we see through

1089
01:00:58,965 --> 01:01:02,325
Speaker 2: the animals in the sanctuary, particularly those two dogs I mentioned,

1090
01:01:02,565 --> 01:01:05,125
Speaker 2: both voiced by the same person, who just kind of

1091
01:01:05,525 --> 01:01:09,565
Speaker 2: stand around and observe everything, but don't intervene in any way.

1092
01:01:09,885 --> 01:01:13,045
Speaker 2: We see it to some degree with the chimps, who

1093
01:01:13,405 --> 01:01:16,885
Speaker 2: acknowledge the darkness and sadness of the world but don't

1094
01:01:16,925 --> 01:01:20,525
Speaker 2: help out and in fact resent being forced to help

1095
01:01:20,565 --> 01:01:24,005
Speaker 2: out or share in any way. There's a lot of

1096
01:01:24,165 --> 01:01:30,085
Speaker 2: animal characters in the sanctuary who just including the cat

1097
01:01:30,165 --> 01:01:33,645
Speaker 2: choir who sings no, we have no food, and we

1098
01:01:33,685 --> 01:01:39,285
Speaker 2: haven't really mentioned the singing mice, sort of like narrators

1099
01:01:39,485 --> 01:01:43,565
Speaker 2: and title card readers, who are just outside observers. But

1100
01:01:43,645 --> 01:01:46,125
Speaker 2: you have all of these characters who kind of have

1101
01:01:46,165 --> 01:01:50,325
Speaker 2: the freedom to stand back see other animals suffer or

1102
01:01:50,365 --> 01:01:54,125
Speaker 2: starve and sit in a place of privilege and not

1103
01:01:54,205 --> 01:01:58,325
Speaker 2: do anything about it. And the link there is not

1104
01:01:58,725 --> 01:02:02,245
Speaker 2: extremely direct, but I do think both of these movies

1105
01:02:02,885 --> 01:02:06,725
Speaker 2: touched pretty specifically on a kind of the privilege, the

1106
01:02:07,365 --> 01:02:10,165
Speaker 2: privilege to ignore things that you don't want to think about,

1107
01:02:10,565 --> 01:02:14,445
Speaker 2: and what that means to the individuals who don't have

1108
01:02:14,525 --> 01:02:17,525
Speaker 2: that freedom, who don't have the luxury and who have

1109
01:02:17,565 --> 01:02:20,485
Speaker 2: to confront these things, whether that's because they're starving in

1110
01:02:20,525 --> 01:02:23,805
Speaker 2: the streets and don't have humans and homes and food,

1111
01:02:24,405 --> 01:02:27,685
Speaker 2: or because they don't have the ability to erase anything

1112
01:02:27,725 --> 01:02:30,885
Speaker 2: they want from their minds, and in both cases it's

1113
01:02:31,285 --> 01:02:34,045
Speaker 2: a pretty sad thing. And once again, I guess this

1114
01:02:34,125 --> 01:02:37,085
Speaker 2: is the drama beating for this pairing an exercise and

1115
01:02:37,125 --> 01:02:41,125
Speaker 2: empathy just kind of like pointing out the gap between

1116
01:02:41,725 --> 01:02:46,245
Speaker 2: having the freedom to watch somebody else suffer and just

1117
01:02:46,325 --> 01:02:49,245
Speaker 2: let it roll off your very fluffy back and not

1118
01:02:49,325 --> 01:02:50,525
Speaker 2: having that freedom.

1119
01:02:50,605 --> 01:02:55,165
Speaker 6: And maybe that segues into just another kind of small

1120
01:02:55,205 --> 01:02:58,645
Speaker 6: connection that is also like the entirety of Pig in

1121
01:02:58,685 --> 01:03:00,965
Speaker 6: the City, which is sort of the idea of the

1122
01:03:01,005 --> 01:03:04,845
Speaker 6: world beyond the farm and these animals venturing beyond the

1123
01:03:04,885 --> 01:03:09,525
Speaker 6: safety of their pastures. And like I said, that's more

1124
01:03:09,645 --> 01:03:12,685
Speaker 6: or less the entire premise of Pig in the City,

1125
01:03:13,405 --> 01:03:17,165
Speaker 6: but in Cheap Detectives it is rendered on a much

1126
01:03:17,245 --> 01:03:22,165
Speaker 6: smaller scale, but also very humorously. One of my favorite

1127
01:03:22,325 --> 01:03:27,165
Speaker 6: gags of the movie is is Lily and Mopple crossing

1128
01:03:27,205 --> 01:03:30,845
Speaker 6: the road for the first time and being absolutely terrified

1129
01:03:30,845 --> 01:03:34,725
Speaker 6: by it, and you know, sort of the the leap

1130
01:03:34,885 --> 01:03:40,365
Speaker 6: it takes for them to even go into the very charming, quirky,

1131
01:03:41,085 --> 01:03:45,565
Speaker 6: not at all dangerous town, not even city you know,

1132
01:03:45,725 --> 01:03:50,725
Speaker 6: of Denbury, is that what it's called Denbrook Denbrook. But yeah,

1133
01:03:50,765 --> 01:03:54,725
Speaker 6: like in both cases, you know, these animals are kind

1134
01:03:54,765 --> 01:04:00,045
Speaker 6: of forced outside of their sanctuaries by circumstance, and that

1135
01:04:00,205 --> 01:04:04,085
Speaker 6: is you know, a sort of a catalyst in both

1136
01:04:04,485 --> 01:04:05,605
Speaker 6: cases with.

1137
01:04:05,685 --> 01:04:08,645
Speaker 5: A triumphant cheap detectives and it's a huge mistake and

1138
01:04:09,005 --> 01:04:12,325
Speaker 5: big in the city which go to this horrible place.

1139
01:04:13,805 --> 01:04:17,365
Speaker 2: Like cases, it's not just coincidence. In both cases, it's

1140
01:04:17,445 --> 01:04:21,565
Speaker 2: kind of because of the the contrivances of other humans,

1141
01:04:21,885 --> 01:04:25,885
Speaker 2: you know, things that are beyond the animals can effectively,

1142
01:04:26,845 --> 01:04:29,205
Speaker 2: you know, the horrible things that humans do to each other,

1143
01:04:29,325 --> 01:04:32,325
Speaker 2: whether it's the tax collectors showing up and trying to

1144
01:04:32,365 --> 01:04:36,725
Speaker 2: claim Hoggett's farm and mortgage it, or the you know,

1145
01:04:36,885 --> 01:04:41,685
Speaker 2: the murderer coming for George because because of reasons that

1146
01:04:41,725 --> 01:04:44,525
Speaker 2: are revealed in the mystery, and in both cases there's

1147
01:04:44,565 --> 01:04:48,045
Speaker 2: just sort of this sense of humans have much more

1148
01:04:48,045 --> 01:04:52,405
Speaker 2: complicated lives, like we have the simplicity of we live

1149
01:04:52,405 --> 01:04:54,005
Speaker 2: on the farm, we love the farm, we're safe on

1150
01:04:54,045 --> 01:04:56,885
Speaker 2: the farm, and then there's all of us human stuff

1151
01:04:56,965 --> 01:05:01,125
Speaker 2: going on and they are forced out of their sanctuary

1152
01:05:01,645 --> 01:05:06,485
Speaker 2: specifically by humans doing you know, dark, unpleasant human things

1153
01:05:06,525 --> 01:05:09,045
Speaker 2: that we that we do you know, both of these

1154
01:05:09,085 --> 01:05:12,685
Speaker 2: movies are to some extent, I think just about the

1155
01:05:12,725 --> 01:05:17,525
Speaker 2: suffering that we we bring on others, just just you know,

1156
01:05:17,605 --> 01:05:21,365
Speaker 2: by being inconsiderate, basically, by by not considering their perspecttives,

1157
01:05:21,365 --> 01:05:21,965
Speaker 2: are their needs.

1158
01:05:22,285 --> 01:05:24,565
Speaker 4: I think it's a little different. The other you got

1159
01:05:24,605 --> 01:05:27,285
Speaker 4: a bit of difference between the two movies is that

1160
01:05:27,405 --> 01:05:31,725
Speaker 4: Babe is immediately just thrown into this world. It's nothing

1161
01:05:31,805 --> 01:05:34,805
Speaker 4: he can really help. He has to get he has

1162
01:05:34,845 --> 01:05:37,925
Speaker 4: to get in there, and he's a fish out of

1163
01:05:37,965 --> 01:05:41,005
Speaker 4: water and he has to adjust. I think with the

1164
01:05:41,085 --> 01:05:43,765
Speaker 4: cheap detectives, there are all these moments in the in

1165
01:05:43,845 --> 01:05:49,565
Speaker 4: the story where that require courage, you know, uh, you know,

1166
01:05:50,005 --> 01:05:54,245
Speaker 4: crossing the various borders of uh and making making discoveries

1167
01:05:54,405 --> 01:05:58,165
Speaker 4: about the world that they that they were happy to have,

1168
01:05:58,565 --> 01:06:01,205
Speaker 4: you know, not known about at all until this, you know,

1169
01:06:01,285 --> 01:06:02,965
Speaker 4: until their shepherd was murdered.

1170
01:06:03,085 --> 01:06:06,805
Speaker 2: That's true. They do consciously make the choice to leave

1171
01:06:06,845 --> 01:06:11,925
Speaker 2: the farm, to try to address the murder, to continue investigating,

1172
01:06:12,045 --> 01:06:13,925
Speaker 2: to try to communicate with the humans. All of these

1173
01:06:13,965 --> 01:06:17,765
Speaker 2: things are choices, whereas Babe is mostly just carried along

1174
01:06:17,805 --> 01:06:20,325
Speaker 2: by fate, and the primary choice that he makes is

1175
01:06:20,405 --> 01:06:23,165
Speaker 2: just to be kind. I guess, you know, the obvious

1176
01:06:23,205 --> 01:06:26,085
Speaker 2: place to wrap up is with the ends of both

1177
01:06:26,125 --> 01:06:30,125
Speaker 2: of these movies being kind of happily ever afters that come,

1178
01:06:31,405 --> 01:06:34,765
Speaker 2: after all, just a whole bunch of dark contrivances in

1179
01:06:35,245 --> 01:06:40,405
Speaker 2: worlds that seem pretty inimicable, particularly to you know, innocence,

1180
01:06:40,405 --> 01:06:45,045
Speaker 2: so to soft little little animals and winter lambs and

1181
01:06:45,485 --> 01:06:49,165
Speaker 2: pigs lost far from their farms and strange every cities.

1182
01:06:49,725 --> 01:06:53,325
Speaker 2: Both of these end up being pretty upbeat movies with

1183
01:06:53,765 --> 01:06:58,445
Speaker 2: kind of similar you know, bringing in, bringing in the lost,

1184
01:06:58,565 --> 01:07:01,885
Speaker 2: and like sharing the bounty of our safe place. Both

1185
01:07:01,925 --> 01:07:06,045
Speaker 2: of them actually have mechanically very similar endings in terms

1186
01:07:06,085 --> 01:07:08,645
Speaker 2: of like what happens to those two farms.

1187
01:07:08,405 --> 01:07:15,125
Speaker 7: Spoiler I'm being as vague as I can, but yeah,

1188
01:07:15,245 --> 01:07:17,965
Speaker 7: it's not just you know, we we get back to

1189
01:07:18,045 --> 01:07:18,965
Speaker 7: our happy place.

1190
01:07:19,205 --> 01:07:23,605
Speaker 2: It extends beyond that in both cases in very similar ways,

1191
01:07:24,125 --> 01:07:26,405
Speaker 2: in ways that again kind of feel like a moral message,

1192
01:07:26,565 --> 01:07:29,245
Speaker 2: an extension of the moral messages that both of these

1193
01:07:29,285 --> 01:07:31,725
Speaker 2: films are are forwarding.

1194
01:07:31,965 --> 01:07:34,845
Speaker 4: Well. I mean, the original script to Baby Picking the

1195
01:07:34,845 --> 01:07:42,005
Speaker 4: City had had as a falling into a combine.

1196
01:07:39,805 --> 01:07:43,165
Speaker 2: And reaching out trying to grab something and just grabbing

1197
01:07:43,165 --> 01:07:46,085
Speaker 2: that entire chimp family with their two tiny babies and

1198
01:07:46,085 --> 01:07:48,125
Speaker 2: pulling them in after exactly.

1199
01:07:52,045 --> 01:07:56,005
Speaker 4: But you know, Georgebella just rolled his eyes and sold

1200
01:07:56,045 --> 01:07:59,885
Speaker 4: out to the studio. He wanted some sort of happy ending.

1201
01:08:01,525 --> 01:08:03,165
Speaker 4: But I think, but at least we could say that

1202
01:08:03,205 --> 01:08:05,405
Speaker 4: in both I think in both cases you have well

1203
01:08:05,485 --> 01:08:08,645
Speaker 4: earned happy endings for everyone involved. I mean, they they've

1204
01:08:08,645 --> 01:08:12,685
Speaker 4: worked their way through these difficult situations and they've won

1205
01:08:13,205 --> 01:08:15,645
Speaker 4: freedom for themselves. And also they've won a certain amount

1206
01:08:15,685 --> 01:08:18,724
Speaker 4: of knowledge about the world. They've gained They've gained knowledge.

1207
01:08:18,965 --> 01:08:21,564
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's sort of like the classic, you know, return

1208
01:08:21,724 --> 01:08:25,085
Speaker 6: home with a greater awareness of the world beyond home,

1209
01:08:25,165 --> 01:08:28,925
Speaker 6: giving you a greater appreciation for that home.

1210
01:08:29,005 --> 01:08:32,965
Speaker 2: A hero's journey would see exactly. Well, this whole conversation

1211
01:08:33,045 --> 01:08:36,285
Speaker 2: has given me a greater appreciation for both of these movies.

1212
01:08:36,965 --> 01:08:40,724
Speaker 2: But I think now it's time to conceptually return home. Babe.

1213
01:08:40,765 --> 01:08:43,005
Speaker 2: Pig in the City is streaming on an Amazon Video.

1214
01:08:43,205 --> 01:08:46,365
Speaker 2: It's rentable in the usual places. It's available on DVD

1215
01:08:46,445 --> 01:08:48,405
Speaker 2: and Blu Ray, both on its own and in a

1216
01:08:48,405 --> 01:08:51,165
Speaker 2: double feature package with the original Babe. If you want

1217
01:08:51,205 --> 01:08:54,405
Speaker 2: the full whiplash experience of going between them, the Sheep

1218
01:08:54,405 --> 01:08:57,285
Speaker 2: Detectives is in theaters, so grab your loved ones and

1219
01:08:57,325 --> 01:08:59,925
Speaker 2: flock to a showing before it moves on to greener pastures.

1220
01:09:00,525 --> 01:09:13,205
Speaker 2: We'll be right back with your Next Picture Show. Finally,

1221
01:09:13,205 --> 01:09:15,684
Speaker 2: it's time to recommend a film or film related item

1222
01:09:15,765 --> 01:09:18,125
Speaker 2: that compliments this set of episodes. We call it your

1223
01:09:18,165 --> 01:09:20,205
Speaker 2: Next Picture Show in the hopes that it'll put some

1224
01:09:20,325 --> 01:09:24,245
Speaker 2: interesting choices on your radar. There are a lot of

1225
01:09:24,285 --> 01:09:26,684
Speaker 2: movies that we could have potentially paired here, and we

1226
01:09:26,885 --> 01:09:30,764
Speaker 2: did discuss a little. We came to the brilliant pairing

1227
01:09:30,805 --> 01:09:33,845
Speaker 2: with Hot to Trot a little too late to manage that,

1228
01:09:34,965 --> 01:09:38,045
Speaker 2: but you know, also could have paired quite nicely with,

1229
01:09:38,285 --> 01:09:42,925
Speaker 2: for instance, any version of Charlotte's Web, or like a

1230
01:09:43,005 --> 01:09:46,285
Speaker 2: variety of other kind of like talking animal based movies.

1231
01:09:47,245 --> 01:09:50,525
Speaker 2: Instead of just picking one out to offer, though, we

1232
01:09:50,725 --> 01:09:53,764
Speaker 2: started talking about kind of the experience of a weird,

1233
01:09:54,085 --> 01:09:59,685
Speaker 2: culty unlikely dark children's entertainment that we love, and we

1234
01:09:59,805 --> 01:10:02,804
Speaker 2: decided to just do a round robin with that. Scott,

1235
01:10:02,925 --> 01:10:06,325
Speaker 2: let's start with you recommend us another weird dark kids movie.

1236
01:10:06,405 --> 01:10:08,885
Speaker 4: Okay, I'm just going to just say out loud, the

1237
01:10:08,925 --> 01:10:10,805
Speaker 4: five thousand fingers a doctor. You just say it just

1238
01:10:10,805 --> 01:10:13,085
Speaker 4: to say it share. But the one I'm gonna mention

1239
01:10:13,205 --> 01:10:18,205
Speaker 4: here is Return to Oz, the Ultimate and dark, Traumatizing

1240
01:10:18,285 --> 01:10:22,405
Speaker 4: Family Fair. It's from nineteen eighty FI five. Uh. It's

1241
01:10:22,405 --> 01:10:26,165
Speaker 4: a It's directed by Walter Merch, who is a very

1242
01:10:27,165 --> 01:10:31,805
Speaker 4: famous film editor. This is his directorial debut. It is

1243
01:10:32,205 --> 01:10:36,325
Speaker 4: It starts for as a Bulk, as a as Dorothy

1244
01:10:37,045 --> 01:10:41,285
Speaker 4: returning to Oz that is in a much grimmer state.

1245
01:10:41,685 --> 01:10:44,765
Speaker 4: I would say that, uh than we ever knew it

1246
01:10:44,805 --> 01:10:47,365
Speaker 4: to be. This is a film that is full of

1247
01:10:48,205 --> 01:10:52,445
Speaker 4: terrors that kind of stay in your mind, particularly these

1248
01:10:52,685 --> 01:10:59,045
Speaker 4: these menacing creatures called Wheelers that that there's zipper zip

1249
01:10:59,125 --> 01:11:02,245
Speaker 4: through the film and these uh, I can't even it's

1250
01:11:02,245 --> 01:11:05,045
Speaker 4: a very hard to describe, uh, you know, other but

1251
01:11:05,045 --> 01:11:08,485
Speaker 4: but it is, uh one of those movies where it's

1252
01:11:08,525 --> 01:11:13,604
Speaker 4: just there's no It's a relentlessly dark fantasy. Uh. I

1253
01:11:13,605 --> 01:11:15,684
Speaker 4: think it. I think some of some of that darkness

1254
01:11:16,165 --> 01:11:18,245
Speaker 4: it really does exist in the Land of Oz and

1255
01:11:18,365 --> 01:11:21,925
Speaker 4: in the original Wisdom of Oz, but it really emphasizes

1256
01:11:21,925 --> 01:11:24,644
Speaker 4: it in a way that is that you almost really

1257
01:11:24,685 --> 01:11:28,005
Speaker 4: can't believe what you're seeing. And you know, it's just

1258
01:11:28,045 --> 01:11:30,525
Speaker 4: one of those movies. I think it's a little underrated,

1259
01:11:30,565 --> 01:11:33,604
Speaker 4: has become a cult cult classic and has a lot

1260
01:11:33,605 --> 01:11:35,564
Speaker 4: of images that are hard to shake. So I kind

1261
01:11:35,565 --> 01:11:38,685
Speaker 4: of feel like everybody has to have the Return to

1262
01:11:38,765 --> 01:11:42,045
Speaker 4: Oz experience, whether you're kind of end up liking it

1263
01:11:42,125 --> 01:11:45,445
Speaker 4: or not. Because it is kind of singular and strange.

1264
01:11:45,285 --> 01:11:48,765
Speaker 5: We should probably mention that it's directly referenced in the

1265
01:11:48,805 --> 01:11:52,165
Speaker 5: Sheep Detectives. It's really yeah, And when they go to

1266
01:11:52,165 --> 01:11:55,245
Speaker 5: the fair or whatever, someone's selling a copy of a

1267
01:11:55,645 --> 01:11:59,325
Speaker 5: Return to Oz, and I think refers to its original.

1268
01:11:59,765 --> 01:12:00,085
Speaker 4: As much.

1269
01:12:00,085 --> 01:12:02,765
Speaker 5: As much as I like Return to Oz, I don't

1270
01:12:02,805 --> 01:12:05,365
Speaker 5: think it's better than the original, but I definitely hold.

1271
01:12:05,205 --> 01:12:08,365
Speaker 4: You're right here, My gosh, how about that? Yeah?

1272
01:12:08,525 --> 01:12:10,764
Speaker 5: Well you see you stay. It's Mood Merchant's directorial debut,

1273
01:12:10,805 --> 01:12:13,685
Speaker 5: and it's also his final film as a director.

1274
01:12:13,405 --> 01:12:17,205
Speaker 4: To the Yeah, he was like Charles Lawton in that way.

1275
01:12:17,165 --> 01:12:19,365
Speaker 2: Yeah, Keith, what about you?

1276
01:12:20,125 --> 01:12:23,125
Speaker 5: I'm gonna recommend and Where the Wild Things Are, which

1277
01:12:23,205 --> 01:12:27,525
Speaker 5: is Bike Jones's two thousand and nine adaptation rees Index

1278
01:12:28,885 --> 01:12:31,525
Speaker 5: Class of children's book I'm a book I loved as

1279
01:12:31,525 --> 01:12:33,844
Speaker 5: a kid, my kid loved as a kid. And and

1280
01:12:33,965 --> 01:12:36,365
Speaker 5: you know, if there's another generation of Phips's perhaps I

1281
01:12:36,445 --> 01:12:39,445
Speaker 5: love that too. Jones quotes the screenplay with Dave Eggers,

1282
01:12:39,645 --> 01:12:44,125
Speaker 5: and I think it's a really visually wonderful film that

1283
01:12:44,605 --> 01:12:46,205
Speaker 5: you know, the studio didn't really quite know what to

1284
01:12:46,285 --> 01:12:50,205
Speaker 5: do with because it is quite upsetting in many ways.

1285
01:12:50,245 --> 01:12:52,925
Speaker 5: It is, you know, it's dark, and it's got some

1286
01:12:53,005 --> 01:12:56,045
Speaker 5: scary stuff, and it doesn't really try to tone any

1287
01:12:56,125 --> 01:12:59,005
Speaker 5: of that down. But I think it works.

1288
01:12:59,085 --> 01:12:59,245
Speaker 3: You know.

1289
01:12:59,325 --> 01:13:02,085
Speaker 5: I think in some ways a lot of like the book,

1290
01:13:02,365 --> 01:13:05,485
Speaker 5: a lot of the film is about the chaos and

1291
01:13:05,565 --> 01:13:08,805
Speaker 5: confusion of being a kid. I think it really kind

1292
01:13:08,845 --> 01:13:13,165
Speaker 5: of uses the wild Things to capture that quite well.

1293
01:13:13,485 --> 01:13:16,885
Speaker 5: And again, they look great, and there's a voice cast that,

1294
01:13:17,045 --> 01:13:19,285
Speaker 5: you know, like you wouldn't believe as playing the wild things.

1295
01:13:19,325 --> 01:13:20,725
Speaker 5: But the one that alway stood out to me is

1296
01:13:21,125 --> 01:13:26,165
Speaker 5: James Kennelfeeni gives this really sensitive performance as Carol, who

1297
01:13:26,445 --> 01:13:28,685
Speaker 5: who's you know, like a you know, as with all

1298
01:13:28,685 --> 01:13:32,045
Speaker 5: the other wild things, but more pointedly as the children.

1299
01:13:32,045 --> 01:13:34,365
Speaker 5: Their emotions are His emotions are just you know, right

1300
01:13:34,365 --> 01:13:36,925
Speaker 5: there on the surface, and it's not sure what we'd

1301
01:13:36,965 --> 01:13:39,005
Speaker 5: do with them. And yeah, I think it really captus

1302
01:13:39,045 --> 01:13:41,644
Speaker 5: that really well. I think got a little underseen at

1303
01:13:41,685 --> 01:13:44,485
Speaker 5: the time. How don't you even know that really picked

1304
01:13:44,565 --> 01:13:47,604
Speaker 5: up the cult following that deserves. So maybe we start

1305
01:13:47,605 --> 01:13:50,045
Speaker 5: that here, or maybe I'm just mistaken. Maybe everyone loves

1306
01:13:50,045 --> 01:13:52,165
Speaker 5: this movie, Tasha, did you have another one for us?

1307
01:13:52,405 --> 01:13:55,125
Speaker 2: Well, not another one, but a one. There are probably

1308
01:13:55,125 --> 01:13:56,965
Speaker 2: a lot of choices that I could make here, But

1309
01:13:57,005 --> 01:14:00,885
Speaker 2: the thing that immediately leapt to mind, that's maybe obscure

1310
01:14:01,005 --> 01:14:04,765
Speaker 2: enough that it should earn more people in tracking it

1311
01:14:04,805 --> 01:14:08,604
Speaker 2: down is a nineteen seventy seven animated movie called The

1312
01:14:08,645 --> 01:14:13,564
Speaker 2: Mouse and His Child. It's based on a deeply strange

1313
01:14:13,605 --> 01:14:17,685
Speaker 2: and really delightful children's novel by Russell Hoban, who is

1314
01:14:18,085 --> 01:14:23,125
Speaker 2: perhaps best known for the France books Red and Jam

1315
01:14:23,165 --> 01:14:28,445
Speaker 2: for Francis and so forth, featuring a kind of anthropomorphic badger.

1316
01:14:28,485 --> 01:14:33,365
Speaker 2: There they're children's picture books with just incredibly charming illustrations

1317
01:14:33,845 --> 01:14:37,445
Speaker 2: and stories. But he was also the writer behind Emma

1318
01:14:37,485 --> 01:14:42,245
Speaker 2: Odder's Drug Band Christmas, and he wrote a really strange

1319
01:14:42,565 --> 01:14:46,645
Speaker 2: post apocalypse novel called Ridley Walker that we wrote up

1320
01:14:46,685 --> 01:14:49,725
Speaker 2: for a kind of a collective read back at the

1321
01:14:49,725 --> 01:14:52,245
Speaker 2: Avy Club back when we were doing kind of an

1322
01:14:52,325 --> 01:14:55,325
Speaker 2: Avy book book club sort of thing that make.

1323
01:14:55,365 --> 01:14:59,685
Speaker 5: Popular feature I love doing it. I think people who

1324
01:14:59,685 --> 01:15:00,725
Speaker 5: participated it loved it too.

1325
01:15:00,765 --> 01:15:02,005
Speaker 2: But it was, yeah, it was.

1326
01:15:02,165 --> 01:15:02,445
Speaker 4: It was.

1327
01:15:02,525 --> 01:15:05,325
Speaker 2: It was not maybe the biggest traffic getter. It also

1328
01:15:05,525 --> 01:15:08,885
Speaker 2: it involved an incredible amount of time. I went back

1329
01:15:08,925 --> 01:15:13,205
Speaker 2: and reread, for a fairly random reason, a book club

1330
01:15:13,205 --> 01:15:18,125
Speaker 2: piece that Jentlemy and I did that's probably fifteen thousand

1331
01:15:18,205 --> 01:15:22,005
Speaker 2: words long, and I found myself reading it like I

1332
01:15:22,005 --> 01:15:23,725
Speaker 2: can hear my own voice in this, I can hear

1333
01:15:23,805 --> 01:15:27,245
Speaker 2: Jeneview's voice in it. I can vaguely remember doing this.

1334
01:15:27,925 --> 01:15:30,405
Speaker 2: What did we think we were doing pouring this many

1335
01:15:30,445 --> 01:15:32,085
Speaker 2: hours into a written piece online.

1336
01:15:32,085 --> 01:15:36,445
Speaker 6: Wait, I'm sorry, Tacha. It wasn't our Harry Potter final

1337
01:15:36,485 --> 01:15:39,525
Speaker 6: book All Night or live blog, was it? Because that

1338
01:15:39,685 --> 01:15:42,165
Speaker 6: was I think my first thing ever writing with you,

1339
01:15:42,205 --> 01:15:45,045
Speaker 6: and it was an insane project. I can't believe we

1340
01:15:45,125 --> 01:15:45,485
Speaker 6: did that.

1341
01:15:46,205 --> 01:15:49,125
Speaker 2: It was we thought it was a great idea at

1342
01:15:49,125 --> 01:15:53,445
Speaker 2: the time, and like somehow we thought, you know, both

1343
01:15:53,525 --> 01:15:57,045
Speaker 2: being fast dedicated readers, we were going to just sit

1344
01:15:57,085 --> 01:16:00,285
Speaker 2: down and read that thing. Like if it took twelve hours,

1345
01:16:00,285 --> 01:16:01,805
Speaker 2: we were going to do it. And I think by

1346
01:16:01,845 --> 01:16:04,684
Speaker 2: like hour fifteen, we were like, we're halfway through this book.

1347
01:16:04,805 --> 01:16:08,325
Speaker 2: We both need to sleep, you know, having gone out

1348
01:16:08,325 --> 01:16:11,564
Speaker 2: and gotten it at midnight at the bookstores like everybody

1349
01:16:11,565 --> 01:16:15,684
Speaker 2: else did not. The point Ridley Walker really really interesting

1350
01:16:15,685 --> 01:16:17,925
Speaker 2: book that I would never have read, a never have

1351
01:16:18,005 --> 01:16:20,965
Speaker 2: run across if it wasn't for the av Book Club.

1352
01:16:21,125 --> 01:16:23,485
Speaker 2: The Mouse and His Child was one of these books

1353
01:16:23,525 --> 01:16:25,845
Speaker 2: I ran across as a kid and just read over

1354
01:16:25,885 --> 01:16:29,885
Speaker 2: and over because it was so strange and so different

1355
01:16:29,885 --> 01:16:34,005
Speaker 2: from everything else. The protagonists are a father mouse and

1356
01:16:34,325 --> 01:16:38,965
Speaker 2: a child mouse who are wind up ten toys who

1357
01:16:39,005 --> 01:16:42,325
Speaker 2: are connected together at the hands. When you wind them up.

1358
01:16:42,885 --> 01:16:45,764
Speaker 2: The father mouse swings the child mouse around in circles,

1359
01:16:46,445 --> 01:16:50,085
Speaker 2: and they start off in a beautiful toy store surrounded

1360
01:16:50,125 --> 01:16:53,285
Speaker 2: by other ten toys, and then misadventures happen, and they

1361
01:16:53,365 --> 01:16:55,285
Speaker 2: end up on the road together, and they go through

1362
01:16:55,325 --> 01:16:59,844
Speaker 2: all of these strange, dark experiences in this strange dark world.

1363
01:17:00,605 --> 01:17:06,325
Speaker 2: And as a book it's almost a strange child philosophy experiment.

1364
01:17:06,925 --> 01:17:11,485
Speaker 2: And as a movie it's handled very faithfully. I guess

1365
01:17:11,605 --> 01:17:16,724
Speaker 2: it's just texturally not like anything else. It was directed

1366
01:17:16,725 --> 01:17:20,005
Speaker 2: by Charles Winson and Fred Wolfe, who were both in Big,

1367
01:17:20,285 --> 01:17:23,725
Speaker 2: Big and TV. Fred wolf was heavily involved in some

1368
01:17:23,885 --> 01:17:28,564
Speaker 2: of the odder animated things of the time, like The Puff,

1369
01:17:28,605 --> 01:17:31,485
Speaker 2: The Magic Dragon TV specials, which you still have a

1370
01:17:31,525 --> 01:17:35,245
Speaker 2: really soft space for and in my Heart, and the

1371
01:17:35,325 --> 01:17:39,285
Speaker 2: nineteen seventy one movie The Point, which was I guess

1372
01:17:39,445 --> 01:17:44,525
Speaker 2: built around a Harry Nilssen. I love The Point, and

1373
01:17:44,645 --> 01:17:46,765
Speaker 2: Charles Winson, I guess was also involved in The Puff,

1374
01:17:46,885 --> 01:17:51,885
Speaker 2: Magic Dragon stuff, but also maybe known better for something

1375
01:17:51,965 --> 01:17:55,525
Speaker 2: called Down and Dirty Duck, which is a nineteen seventy

1376
01:17:55,525 --> 01:18:00,445
Speaker 2: four unrated adult animation that I have never seen regardless.

1377
01:18:01,005 --> 01:18:06,565
Speaker 2: The Mouse and His Child just a very dark, dreamy, ambitious,

1378
01:18:07,325 --> 01:18:10,604
Speaker 2: strange animated movie. I don't believe that it's available like

1379
01:18:11,045 --> 01:18:15,805
Speaker 2: streaming or like formally in a physical form anywhere, but

1380
01:18:16,045 --> 01:18:18,925
Speaker 2: I looked it up just the other day because I

1381
01:18:18,965 --> 01:18:21,005
Speaker 2: was curious about it, and it's it's streaming on you.

1382
01:18:21,405 --> 01:18:25,165
Speaker 2: It's one of those somebody picked up this lost piece

1383
01:18:25,205 --> 01:18:28,765
Speaker 2: of animation that isn't licensed anywhere and just made it

1384
01:18:28,805 --> 01:18:31,725
Speaker 2: available for the world to enjoy. So you can find

1385
01:18:31,725 --> 01:18:34,805
Speaker 2: it there, and I recommend it. I truly don't know

1386
01:18:34,845 --> 01:18:36,925
Speaker 2: how it'll play to an adult who's never seen it,

1387
01:18:37,365 --> 01:18:40,085
Speaker 2: but as a realization of one of the strangest and

1388
01:18:40,125 --> 01:18:43,045
Speaker 2: most beloved books in my childhood. It was just a

1389
01:18:43,085 --> 01:18:45,845
Speaker 2: real experience, Gene you bring us home.

1390
01:18:46,285 --> 01:18:49,365
Speaker 6: Well, what I was initially gonna recommend here was The

1391
01:18:49,405 --> 01:18:53,325
Speaker 6: Brave Little Toaster, which I do still recommend if you're unfamiliar.

1392
01:18:53,445 --> 01:18:59,365
Speaker 6: It's a animated nineteen eighty seven film that is very

1393
01:18:59,485 --> 01:19:04,045
Speaker 6: much sort of a toy story prototype, but built around

1394
01:19:04,165 --> 01:19:07,765
Speaker 6: regular household appliances such as a titular toaster as well

1395
01:19:07,805 --> 01:19:11,644
Speaker 6: as like a vacuum cleaner and a lamp, and there's

1396
01:19:11,685 --> 01:19:17,564
Speaker 6: a very traumatizing sequence involving an air conditioner. It still

1397
01:19:17,605 --> 01:19:20,245
Speaker 6: haunts me to this day. And you know, it's sort

1398
01:19:20,285 --> 01:19:24,125
Speaker 6: of a venture out into the world and back home

1399
01:19:24,365 --> 01:19:29,525
Speaker 6: type narrative, not unlike Babe Pig in the City, complete

1400
01:19:29,605 --> 01:19:33,965
Speaker 6: with some, like I said, pretty traumatizing visuals of the

1401
01:19:33,965 --> 01:19:37,165
Speaker 6: inner workings of various suppliances that you can kind of

1402
01:19:37,485 --> 01:19:41,165
Speaker 6: port over to the human body in kind of terrifying ways.

1403
01:19:41,525 --> 01:19:44,005
Speaker 6: But well, I guess I am kind of still recommending

1404
01:19:44,325 --> 01:19:47,684
Speaker 6: Brave Lille Toaster, which is also not available on streaming,

1405
01:19:47,725 --> 01:19:51,125
Speaker 6: but there's a pretty good looking rip on YouTube, so

1406
01:19:51,365 --> 01:19:53,925
Speaker 6: if you haven't seen it, I would definitely just take

1407
01:19:53,965 --> 01:19:57,285
Speaker 6: a look at that. It's more so for like it's

1408
01:19:57,685 --> 01:20:01,045
Speaker 6: place in animation history, like I say, as a sort

1409
01:20:01,085 --> 01:20:05,965
Speaker 6: of a proto toy story story. But while we were

1410
01:20:06,125 --> 01:20:08,965
Speaker 6: just as we were getting into this segment, I realized

1411
01:20:09,005 --> 01:20:12,604
Speaker 6: this is also a good opportunity to correct miss an

1412
01:20:12,725 --> 01:20:14,765
Speaker 6: error I made earlier when we were talking about the

1413
01:20:14,845 --> 01:20:17,445
Speaker 6: voice cast a Pig in the City, and I noted

1414
01:20:17,525 --> 01:20:21,165
Speaker 6: that eg Daily, who voices Babe, is primarily known for

1415
01:20:21,245 --> 01:20:24,125
Speaker 6: her voice roles, which is true. She's you know, she

1416
01:20:24,205 --> 01:20:28,045
Speaker 6: voiced Tommy Pickles on Rugrats and Buttercup on Powerpup Girls.

1417
01:20:28,285 --> 01:20:31,405
Speaker 2: But Lorenzo and Lorenzo's Oil directed by George Miller.

1418
01:20:31,565 --> 01:20:35,845
Speaker 6: Yes, but she is also Dotty from Pee Wee's Big Adventure,

1419
01:20:38,365 --> 01:20:41,125
Speaker 6: credited as Elizabeth Daily there. So I didn't make the

1420
01:20:41,765 --> 01:20:44,525
Speaker 6: connection immediately, but I was like, oh, yeah, well, let's

1421
01:20:44,525 --> 01:20:46,565
Speaker 6: talk about Pee Wee's Big Adventure as far as I

1422
01:20:46,725 --> 01:20:51,925
Speaker 6: kind of tonally odd a sensible kids entertainment. You know, obviously,

1423
01:20:51,965 --> 01:20:56,365
Speaker 6: the Tim Burton factor is going to bring a certain

1424
01:20:56,405 --> 01:21:02,925
Speaker 6: amount of signature darkness to this story of a presumed

1425
01:21:03,165 --> 01:21:06,605
Speaker 6: little boy finding his bike, the boy played by a

1426
01:21:07,045 --> 01:21:10,125
Speaker 6: grown man. But you know, I'm guessing if you're listening

1427
01:21:10,165 --> 01:21:13,285
Speaker 6: to this podcast, you've probably seen Pee Wee's Big Adventure,

1428
01:21:13,405 --> 01:21:16,564
Speaker 6: and if you haven't, you should correct that. It's hopefully

1429
01:21:16,605 --> 01:21:19,085
Speaker 6: a movie that we will get to pair with something

1430
01:21:19,165 --> 01:21:22,805
Speaker 6: one day because it's it's great. But it's also a

1431
01:21:22,845 --> 01:21:25,525
Speaker 6: movie that I saw probably a little younger than I

1432
01:21:25,565 --> 01:21:28,805
Speaker 6: should have, and was very scarred by Large Marge as

1433
01:21:28,845 --> 01:21:32,485
Speaker 6: well as the pet shop fire and the pewee like

1434
01:21:32,645 --> 01:21:38,085
Speaker 6: carrying snakes. You know, just some very off tilter imagery

1435
01:21:38,245 --> 01:21:41,325
Speaker 6: in that movie. That's I think. You know, if you

1436
01:21:41,445 --> 01:21:44,845
Speaker 6: experience it young enough, probably scars you a little bit,

1437
01:21:44,885 --> 01:21:45,724
Speaker 6: but in a good way.

1438
01:21:46,445 --> 01:21:50,045
Speaker 4: Large Marge is, you know, as Baby's first jump scare.

1439
01:21:50,365 --> 01:21:54,365
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, it all comes back to Large March.

1440
01:21:55,125 --> 01:21:57,445
Speaker 2: I'm just thinking about how much the Large March jump

1441
01:21:57,525 --> 01:22:04,045
Speaker 2: scare lines up with something that Beetlejuice does in every iteration,

1442
01:22:04,485 --> 01:22:07,285
Speaker 2: every individual movie. I just saw a trailer for the

1443
01:22:08,685 --> 01:22:11,125
Speaker 2: Broadway show the other day and he does the exact

1444
01:22:11,165 --> 01:22:14,045
Speaker 2: same thing, and again, it's it's just all it's all

1445
01:22:14,485 --> 01:22:16,685
Speaker 2: really about Large March and how we feel about her.

1446
01:22:16,885 --> 01:22:20,165
Speaker 2: Thank you all. That's that's quite the set of Weird

1447
01:22:20,245 --> 01:22:24,325
Speaker 2: Dark kids. As somebody with no kids, weird dark or otherwise,

1448
01:22:24,805 --> 01:22:26,685
Speaker 2: I will not be showing them to my children, but

1449
01:22:26,765 --> 01:22:34,684
Speaker 2: I hope other people do. That's it for this edition

1450
01:22:34,685 --> 01:22:36,725
Speaker 2: of the Next Picture Show, Keith, can you tell us

1451
01:22:36,725 --> 01:22:38,724
Speaker 2: about our next Pairing's.

1452
01:22:38,045 --> 01:22:40,885
Speaker 5: First episode on the Disney Plus series, The Mandalorian has

1453
01:22:40,885 --> 01:22:44,724
Speaker 5: had one unmistakable influence Lone Wolf and Cub, which began

1454
01:22:44,765 --> 01:22:47,564
Speaker 5: as a manga written by kazu O Kuike and drawn

1455
01:22:47,565 --> 01:22:51,604
Speaker 5: by Koseki Gojima, published between nineteen seventy and nineteen seventy six.

1456
01:22:52,125 --> 01:22:54,365
Speaker 5: Like Lone Wolf and Cub, The Mandalorian tells a story

1457
01:22:54,365 --> 01:22:56,325
Speaker 5: of a warrior who adheres to a strict code of

1458
01:22:56,325 --> 01:22:59,045
Speaker 5: honor and who lives as an outcast from others of

1459
01:22:59,085 --> 01:23:02,125
Speaker 5: his kind. And also like Lone Wolf and Cub, the

1460
01:23:02,165 --> 01:23:05,564
Speaker 5: series protagonist voice and played when unmasked by Pedro Pascal,

1461
01:23:05,965 --> 01:23:09,045
Speaker 5: has a pint sized sidekick who accompanies and sometimes aids

1462
01:23:09,125 --> 01:23:13,005
Speaker 5: him on his adventures. For The Mandalorian, that's Grogu, a

1463
01:23:13,045 --> 01:23:16,045
Speaker 5: young member of the same forced powerful species as Yoda.

1464
01:23:16,165 --> 01:23:19,644
Speaker 5: For ogamihto the matchless samurai protagonist of Lone Wolf and Cub,

1465
01:23:19,805 --> 01:23:23,005
Speaker 5: that's Diaigoro, his toddler's son, whom we totes around in

1466
01:23:23,045 --> 01:23:25,925
Speaker 5: a baby cart filled with hidden weapons. Lone Wolf and

1467
01:23:26,005 --> 01:23:28,365
Speaker 5: Cub has had many offshoots over the years, including a

1468
01:23:28,445 --> 01:23:31,725
Speaker 5: much liked six film series released between nineteen seventy two

1469
01:23:31,805 --> 01:23:36,365
Speaker 5: and nineteen seventy four starring Toby Siberro Wakayama as Ogami Itito.

1470
01:23:36,965 --> 01:23:39,564
Speaker 5: So for our next pairing, we're going to watch and

1471
01:23:39,645 --> 01:23:43,445
Speaker 5: discuss Shogun Assassin, a nineteen eighty film that edits together

1472
01:23:43,765 --> 01:23:46,045
Speaker 5: the first two Lone Wolf and Cub movies that's become

1473
01:23:46,045 --> 01:23:48,405
Speaker 5: a cult classic in its own right, with the full

1474
01:23:48,485 --> 01:23:50,804
Speaker 5: understanding that this might not be the best and certainly

1475
01:23:50,805 --> 01:23:54,085
Speaker 5: not the purest way to appreciate these films. Then we'll

1476
01:23:54,125 --> 01:23:56,245
Speaker 5: turn to a galaxy far far away to discuss a

1477
01:23:56,285 --> 01:23:58,725
Speaker 5: film that couldn't exist without Lone Wolf and Cub, The

1478
01:23:58,765 --> 01:24:02,845
Speaker 5: Mandalorian and Grogu, a big screen spinoff of The Mandalorian.

1479
01:24:03,125 --> 01:24:04,644
Speaker 5: We hope you'll join us for now.

1480
01:24:04,685 --> 01:24:07,005
Speaker 2: We welcome your feedback on Babe Pig in the City,

1481
01:24:07,205 --> 01:24:09,765
Speaker 2: The Sheep Detectives, and anything else film related you'd like

1482
01:24:09,805 --> 01:24:12,005
Speaker 2: to talk about. Email us it comments at next Picture

1483
01:24:12,045 --> 01:24:14,405
Speaker 2: show Down. Nett leave us a voicemail at seven seven

1484
01:24:14,525 --> 01:24:17,845
Speaker 2: three two three four nine seven three zero before we

1485
01:24:17,885 --> 01:24:20,325
Speaker 2: close out this week's episode. Where can we find everyone?

1486
01:24:20,365 --> 01:24:20,925
Speaker 2: These days.

1487
01:24:21,245 --> 01:24:25,805
Speaker 4: Scott, Well, you find me primarily at the Reveal, the

1488
01:24:25,805 --> 01:24:29,285
Speaker 4: newsletter I write with Keith Phipps. That's the Revealed dot

1489
01:24:29,405 --> 01:24:32,365
Speaker 4: film as it happens. I wrote a very large piece

1490
01:24:32,405 --> 01:24:37,564
Speaker 4: about all three Big pee Wee Herman movies. Uh, Piece

1491
01:24:37,565 --> 01:24:41,365
Speaker 4: of Adventure, Big Top pee Wee and uh Big what's

1492
01:24:41,405 --> 01:24:44,965
Speaker 4: the other one? The other way Holiday? Yeah, so I

1493
01:24:45,005 --> 01:24:48,725
Speaker 4: saw three of them. The second one is one of

1494
01:24:48,725 --> 01:24:51,765
Speaker 4: the stranger sequels you'll ever see. The first one is

1495
01:24:51,765 --> 01:24:58,085
Speaker 4: one of my absolutely except I mean just like but

1496
01:24:58,125 --> 01:25:02,405
Speaker 4: it's full of just like distractingly sexy women, and that

1497
01:25:02,605 --> 01:25:05,205
Speaker 4: for pee Wee you to consider very strange stuff. And

1498
01:25:05,245 --> 01:25:08,604
Speaker 4: also and also and also Chris Stofferson. So I'm there,

1499
01:25:09,805 --> 01:25:12,724
Speaker 4: you know. I'm also the New York Times, Vulture guardian

1500
01:25:12,805 --> 01:25:13,925
Speaker 4: other fine publications.

1501
01:25:14,325 --> 01:25:14,485
Speaker 3: Uh.

1502
01:25:14,525 --> 01:25:19,485
Speaker 4: You can also find me on Blue Sky at Scott Tobias. Uh,

1503
01:25:19,605 --> 01:25:20,684
Speaker 4: what about you, Vive.

1504
01:25:21,965 --> 01:25:25,485
Speaker 6: I am the TV editor at one of those fine publications, Vulture,

1505
01:25:26,165 --> 01:25:30,085
Speaker 6: mainly working behind the scenes there and mainly staying behind

1506
01:25:30,125 --> 01:25:33,005
Speaker 6: the scenes on social media, by which I mean doing

1507
01:25:33,125 --> 01:25:38,644
Speaker 6: very little but parking at Genevieve Koski Tasha, I am.

1508
01:25:38,565 --> 01:25:41,485
Speaker 2: The entertainment editor at Polygon dot Com. That is where

1509
01:25:41,525 --> 01:25:43,604
Speaker 2: you can find my writing. I've been doing a lot

1510
01:25:43,645 --> 01:25:47,285
Speaker 2: of weird, big, ambitious things lately as opposed to the

1511
01:25:48,325 --> 01:25:50,645
Speaker 2: very small post, I should probably be turning around a

1512
01:25:50,685 --> 01:25:53,644
Speaker 2: lot faster, and as a result, I have not had

1513
01:25:53,645 --> 01:25:56,205
Speaker 2: a ton of time lately for Blue Sky. But you

1514
01:25:56,205 --> 01:25:59,445
Speaker 2: can find me there at Tasha Robinson Keith.

1515
01:25:59,565 --> 01:26:02,245
Speaker 5: I run the internet's biggest fan site for the nineteen

1516
01:26:02,285 --> 01:26:05,605
Speaker 5: seventy four movie Down in Dirty Duck by Charles Winson.

1517
01:26:06,325 --> 01:26:09,365
Speaker 5: When I'm not doing that, though, you can find my

1518
01:26:09,445 --> 01:26:12,525
Speaker 5: writing at the Reveal the Reveal dot film. We're you know,

1519
01:26:12,525 --> 01:26:15,045
Speaker 5: Scott and I do all kinds of things, including another

1520
01:26:15,205 --> 01:26:17,765
Speaker 5: You've been doing some audio commentaries. We have one for

1521
01:26:17,765 --> 01:26:21,365
Speaker 5: for Minority Report for paid subscribers only. But you can

1522
01:26:21,405 --> 01:26:24,245
Speaker 5: also find my writing at places like Vulture, sometimes Slate,

1523
01:26:24,325 --> 01:26:27,885
Speaker 5: sometimes TV Guide, occasionally The Ringer and other publications like that.

1524
01:26:28,325 --> 01:26:30,925
Speaker 5: But yeah, and I'm blue Sky at k at three thousand,

1525
01:26:31,005 --> 01:26:33,845
Speaker 5: and you know, theoretically on other social media under the

1526
01:26:33,885 --> 01:26:36,045
Speaker 5: same handle but not really letterbox. You can find me

1527
01:26:36,045 --> 01:26:38,845
Speaker 5: a letterboxed uh there most lead the Reveal.

1528
01:26:39,685 --> 01:26:41,685
Speaker 2: You can stay updated on the Next Picture Show at

1529
01:26:41,725 --> 01:26:44,285
Speaker 2: Next Picture Show dot net and on Blue Sky at

1530
01:26:44,365 --> 01:26:47,005
Speaker 2: the Next Picture Show, get bonus content, an open discussion

1531
01:26:47,005 --> 01:26:50,365
Speaker 2: at patreon dot com slash Next Picture Show, and as always,

1532
01:26:50,445 --> 01:26:53,485
Speaker 2: we appreciate your ratings and reviews on Apple Podcasts or

1533
01:26:53,485 --> 01:26:56,525
Speaker 2: Spotify or wherever you listen to the show. Thanks to

1534
01:26:56,605 --> 01:26:59,525
Speaker 2: Dan the Bake Jakes for his assistance in producing this podcast.

1535
01:26:59,885 --> 01:27:01,564
Speaker 2: The Next Picture Show is proud to be part of

1536
01:27:01,565 --> 01:27:04,805
Speaker 2: the Film Spotting family of podcasts. Please tune in next time.

1537
01:27:17,005 --> 01:27:17,764
Speaker 2: That was a good movie.

1538
01:27:18,125 --> 01:27:19,684
Speaker 3: Yeah, I seen here before once