1 00:00:02,360 --> 00:00:05,480 Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Crypto, a daily Bloomberg I heard podcast, 2 00:00:05,840 --> 00:00:09,400 Speaker 1: and I'm Stacy Marie Ishmael, Managing editor of Crypto for Bloomberg. 3 00:00:09,440 --> 00:00:30,240 Speaker 1: Mus It's Wednesday, October twelve. What do Michael Sailor, Jesse Powell, 4 00:00:30,360 --> 00:00:34,240 Speaker 1: Michael Morrow, Sam Trabuco, Brett Harrison and Alex Maschinski all 5 00:00:34,280 --> 00:00:36,920 Speaker 1: have in common? If you said there dudes in crypto, 6 00:00:37,640 --> 00:00:40,680 Speaker 1: you'd be correct. If you said there dudes who used 7 00:00:40,680 --> 00:00:43,840 Speaker 1: to be crypto CEOs and suddenly weren't anymore, you'd also 8 00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:47,479 Speaker 1: be correct. This crypto winter has seen a string of 9 00:00:47,560 --> 00:00:50,040 Speaker 1: high profile exits from the c suite, a mix of 10 00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:53,360 Speaker 1: resignations and other forms of well to coin a phrase 11 00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:57,480 Speaker 1: conscious and coupling. What's driving all of this activity? Is 12 00:00:57,520 --> 00:01:01,360 Speaker 1: it Bitcoin prices falling more than is that the bankruptcy filings? 13 00:01:01,720 --> 00:01:04,160 Speaker 1: Is it the SEC breathing down everyone's neck? Is it 14 00:01:04,240 --> 00:01:06,040 Speaker 1: the wanting to spend more time with your yacht in 15 00:01:06,080 --> 00:01:09,000 Speaker 1: the Bahamas? Maybe it's all of these at once. For 16 00:01:09,080 --> 00:01:12,000 Speaker 1: more on this succession level crypto drama, we've got Bloomberg 17 00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:16,480 Speaker 1: report to U. H. Young antipoly Vias, executive search recruiter 18 00:01:16,520 --> 00:01:29,600 Speaker 1: at Global Consulting, firm. Corn Ferry very excited to have 19 00:01:29,680 --> 00:01:32,720 Speaker 1: you both on the show. So that's all going on. 20 00:01:33,000 --> 00:01:35,080 Speaker 1: I feel like I thought, basically every episode of this 21 00:01:35,120 --> 00:01:37,600 Speaker 1: podcast with there's a lot going to own. It's always true, 22 00:01:37,920 --> 00:01:40,600 Speaker 1: but today, more specifically, we're going to talk about the 23 00:01:40,640 --> 00:01:44,840 Speaker 1: fact that, you know, roughly a dozen or more folks 24 00:01:45,600 --> 00:01:51,080 Speaker 1: in C suite executive management, senior leadership positions at some 25 00:01:51,160 --> 00:01:54,040 Speaker 1: of the largest crypto companies in the world have in 26 00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:58,040 Speaker 1: recent days found themselves either out of a job or 27 00:01:58,080 --> 00:02:00,520 Speaker 1: in a different job from what they were doing before. 28 00:02:01,440 --> 00:02:06,040 Speaker 1: Industry turmoil happens, company upheaval happens. You know, we'll talk 29 00:02:06,080 --> 00:02:09,320 Speaker 1: to folks and they'll say, oh, yeah, totally, this person 30 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:11,519 Speaker 1: just wanted to spend more time with their family. There's 31 00:02:11,520 --> 00:02:13,959 Speaker 1: always a narrative around these things. What we're going to 32 00:02:14,040 --> 00:02:16,000 Speaker 1: dive into a little bit is why we're seeing this 33 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:19,120 Speaker 1: right now in crypto, what might be coming next, and 34 00:02:19,200 --> 00:02:23,600 Speaker 1: what our listeners need to understand about corporate succession and 35 00:02:23,680 --> 00:02:25,360 Speaker 1: you asually, I'm going to start with you, could you 36 00:02:25,400 --> 00:02:29,120 Speaker 1: just remind folks how many people have switched the jobs 37 00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:31,760 Speaker 1: in the past couple of months in crypto. That's going 38 00:02:31,800 --> 00:02:35,400 Speaker 1: to be a long league. What are some of the 39 00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:40,880 Speaker 1: biggest names. We'll start with Michael Saylor, who let macro Strategy, 40 00:02:40,960 --> 00:02:44,480 Speaker 1: which is the company that's been buying big Coin. And 41 00:02:44,560 --> 00:02:48,240 Speaker 1: then we also have Crack and CEO Jesse Pals stepping 42 00:02:48,280 --> 00:02:51,000 Speaker 1: down as he was the co founder of the crypto Exchange. 43 00:02:51,360 --> 00:02:54,720 Speaker 1: And then we have a leadership shuffle at Genesis, one 44 00:02:54,720 --> 00:03:00,000 Speaker 1: of the biggest institutional crypto brokerage, which was the biggest 45 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:03,600 Speaker 1: creditor for Three Arrows cryptal hedge fund that went bankrupt. 46 00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:06,519 Speaker 1: So we've seen a series of changes, I would say, 47 00:03:06,680 --> 00:03:10,280 Speaker 1: starting as early as August this year. As you say, 48 00:03:10,360 --> 00:03:12,480 Speaker 1: U G, that is a fairly long list of people, 49 00:03:12,600 --> 00:03:15,320 Speaker 1: and some of those folks, you know what they've telegraphed 50 00:03:15,440 --> 00:03:17,880 Speaker 1: is this is expected. I've been doing this for a 51 00:03:17,919 --> 00:03:20,880 Speaker 1: long time. I'm really interested in these other opportunities. For 52 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:22,800 Speaker 1: some of them, it came as kind of more of 53 00:03:22,840 --> 00:03:26,080 Speaker 1: a surprise to the market. Are there any common trends 54 00:03:26,160 --> 00:03:29,079 Speaker 1: or themes like, are there particular signs that this company 55 00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:31,640 Speaker 1: was about to go through some kind of leadership of people. 56 00:03:33,280 --> 00:03:36,480 Speaker 1: I would place all these changes in the broader context 57 00:03:36,520 --> 00:03:39,440 Speaker 1: of what the cryptal industry has been sued in the past. 58 00:03:39,480 --> 00:03:43,280 Speaker 1: Several months. As we know, ever since the collapse of 59 00:03:43,320 --> 00:03:47,480 Speaker 1: cryptal prices, there has been a series of shakeout. We've 60 00:03:47,520 --> 00:03:52,200 Speaker 1: seeing layoffs at big cryptal companies. There has been companies 61 00:03:52,200 --> 00:03:56,600 Speaker 1: that fell for bankruptcies, there's been consolidations and bailouts, and 62 00:03:56,640 --> 00:03:59,880 Speaker 1: now we're entering a stage where some of these companies 63 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:04,840 Speaker 1: are starting to change their top leaders, including the CEOs. 64 00:04:04,880 --> 00:04:07,960 Speaker 1: And I would say that the cryptal industry is fairly 65 00:04:08,040 --> 00:04:11,080 Speaker 1: news about ten years old. So a lot of these 66 00:04:11,480 --> 00:04:15,920 Speaker 1: CEOs that are being replaced are actually the original founders 67 00:04:15,920 --> 00:04:20,560 Speaker 1: of the crypto companies, and they are oftentimes closely associated 68 00:04:20,600 --> 00:04:23,400 Speaker 1: with the brand name of the company, and they're able 69 00:04:23,440 --> 00:04:27,920 Speaker 1: to amass lots of followings online and their household names. 70 00:04:27,960 --> 00:04:32,000 Speaker 1: But now they're starting to be replaced by professional managers 71 00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:35,840 Speaker 1: whose names are less familiar to folks in the cryptal communities, 72 00:04:35,920 --> 00:04:41,240 Speaker 1: but who have background in traditional professional services firms and 73 00:04:41,320 --> 00:04:43,880 Speaker 1: the Probably I wanna get your perspective on this, because 74 00:04:43,880 --> 00:04:46,240 Speaker 1: I feel like we've seen this in finance, We've seen 75 00:04:46,240 --> 00:04:50,479 Speaker 1: this in tech. You know, boy jenior ceo company grows 76 00:04:50,520 --> 00:04:52,920 Speaker 1: to ten thousands, Suddenly like wow, this is really hard 77 00:04:52,960 --> 00:04:56,520 Speaker 1: managing all these people's less fun we're gonna switch over, 78 00:04:56,640 --> 00:04:58,800 Speaker 1: or there's some kind of corporate crisis, or as you 79 00:04:59,040 --> 00:05:03,000 Speaker 1: directly points out, a an industry wide crisis from your perspective, 80 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:05,000 Speaker 1: as anything about what was happening in crypto unusual or 81 00:05:05,040 --> 00:05:08,919 Speaker 1: different in any way. I think there's two answers to 82 00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:12,719 Speaker 1: that question. I think there's a yes and a no. 83 00:05:13,520 --> 00:05:19,920 Speaker 1: I'll start with the no, in that any disruptive industry 84 00:05:20,080 --> 00:05:26,920 Speaker 1: or any disruptive technology has its early adopters, and there's 85 00:05:26,920 --> 00:05:30,160 Speaker 1: an education process that the industry has to go through 86 00:05:30,240 --> 00:05:34,200 Speaker 1: in order to adopt it. And so we've seen that 87 00:05:34,360 --> 00:05:36,960 Speaker 1: in tech and like you said, a wonder cand and 88 00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:40,880 Speaker 1: you know, these these geniuses, there is that element of it. 89 00:05:41,440 --> 00:05:46,240 Speaker 1: The yes part of the unusual nous is that this 90 00:05:46,440 --> 00:05:52,440 Speaker 1: is such a novel concept, but it's baked an ideology 91 00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:57,200 Speaker 1: as well, right, and so they want to actually reimagine 92 00:05:57,240 --> 00:06:02,560 Speaker 1: the way money is distributed with etcetera, and even the 93 00:06:02,640 --> 00:06:05,520 Speaker 1: creation of a currency. I would you know, draw some 94 00:06:05,640 --> 00:06:08,680 Speaker 1: parallels to when you know, the euro was introduced in 95 00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:11,560 Speaker 1: the market. And I was actually there at the London 96 00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:14,360 Speaker 1: School of Economics at the time and when they introduced 97 00:06:14,360 --> 00:06:16,520 Speaker 1: this concept. As a student, I was like, this is 98 00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:19,400 Speaker 1: never gonna think what is this? This is never gonna happen. 99 00:06:19,480 --> 00:06:22,279 Speaker 1: What what are you guys talking about? And there was 100 00:06:22,320 --> 00:06:27,040 Speaker 1: an adoption or an adoption process, and so I think 101 00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:31,440 Speaker 1: with the crypto space there is some big uniqueness from 102 00:06:31,480 --> 00:06:36,359 Speaker 1: sort of a you know, reimagining the financial system with this, 103 00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:39,520 Speaker 1: and that's where you're going to get a lot of 104 00:06:39,880 --> 00:06:44,680 Speaker 1: different perspectives. It's so interesting to hear you identify the 105 00:06:44,760 --> 00:06:47,599 Speaker 1: kind of the ideology that's wrapped open crypto because that 106 00:06:47,600 --> 00:06:50,480 Speaker 1: has absolutely manifested in the shall we say, some of 107 00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:54,880 Speaker 1: the larger personalities at at play here, and you know, 108 00:06:55,080 --> 00:06:58,480 Speaker 1: cracking and coin base and a couple of other folks 109 00:06:58,480 --> 00:07:00,839 Speaker 1: have had their CEOs kind of go on the record 110 00:07:01,000 --> 00:07:04,520 Speaker 1: saying if you're not down for this cause, if you 111 00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:06,880 Speaker 1: are like one of those quotes unquote wokes out there, 112 00:07:06,920 --> 00:07:08,880 Speaker 1: like we're not interested in what you have to say 113 00:07:08,920 --> 00:07:11,480 Speaker 1: about any of these things, like don't bring politics to work, 114 00:07:12,200 --> 00:07:15,080 Speaker 1: or let's ask questions about whether women can be people. 115 00:07:15,320 --> 00:07:19,080 Speaker 1: You know. So that's such a specific way of running 116 00:07:19,120 --> 00:07:21,360 Speaker 1: a company, and I wonder how that squares with what 117 00:07:21,400 --> 00:07:23,560 Speaker 1: you AI is identifying of bringing in this class of 118 00:07:23,600 --> 00:07:26,800 Speaker 1: like professional managers who are much less likely to be 119 00:07:26,880 --> 00:07:30,440 Speaker 1: wanting to write incendiary blog posts about who counsel as 120 00:07:30,440 --> 00:07:33,240 Speaker 1: a person as you, And she said, there's a lot 121 00:07:33,280 --> 00:07:38,000 Speaker 1: of founder lead and founder first firms out there which 122 00:07:38,240 --> 00:07:41,440 Speaker 1: they have become their own brand and personal brand in 123 00:07:41,480 --> 00:07:45,480 Speaker 1: the crypto space, and as any industry, the maturation of 124 00:07:45,560 --> 00:07:49,360 Speaker 1: that industry requires a lot of institutional knowledge, which is 125 00:07:49,400 --> 00:07:54,440 Speaker 1: why you're now seeing this new wave of leadership step in. 126 00:07:54,640 --> 00:07:57,760 Speaker 1: Because have we gone through a crypto winter? Yes? Have 127 00:07:57,880 --> 00:08:01,239 Speaker 1: we gone through crypto winters? Yes? Have we gone through 128 00:08:01,520 --> 00:08:06,640 Speaker 1: really extreme market volatility? Yes? Has the regulatory bodies that 129 00:08:06,680 --> 00:08:09,280 Speaker 1: started to take a look at this yes. Think about 130 00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:12,040 Speaker 1: when the iPod first came out. When the iPod first 131 00:08:12,040 --> 00:08:14,320 Speaker 1: came out, people are like, what are you talking about? Like, 132 00:08:14,440 --> 00:08:16,720 Speaker 1: I mean, you're gonna have you know, five thousand songs 133 00:08:16,800 --> 00:08:20,800 Speaker 1: in this little device, And the early adopters really geeked 134 00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:23,040 Speaker 1: out about it. And so the early adopters of crypto 135 00:08:23,160 --> 00:08:26,400 Speaker 1: really geeked out about it because of those personalities, because 136 00:08:26,440 --> 00:08:28,840 Speaker 1: of those guys that they were and yes, they wrote 137 00:08:28,880 --> 00:08:31,040 Speaker 1: a lot of them were guys that came out and said, 138 00:08:31,280 --> 00:08:34,760 Speaker 1: you know, this is the next way of the financial world. 139 00:08:35,040 --> 00:08:39,160 Speaker 1: Let's democratize access and let's figure out what those pain 140 00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:43,040 Speaker 1: points are in the industry and completely obliterate everything. And 141 00:08:43,080 --> 00:08:46,800 Speaker 1: I think ideally everyone can understand that this is great, 142 00:08:47,160 --> 00:08:51,200 Speaker 1: but the implementation of it is so hard, and I 143 00:08:51,200 --> 00:08:53,280 Speaker 1: think that's what these guys are running up against. And 144 00:08:53,360 --> 00:08:55,920 Speaker 1: that's exactly why you're going to see the succession around 145 00:08:56,000 --> 00:08:58,720 Speaker 1: leaders that have said, I've taken a really hard concept 146 00:08:58,760 --> 00:09:01,600 Speaker 1: in this, you know, age old industry, and how am 147 00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:04,360 Speaker 1: I going to execute it and implement this? And you're 148 00:09:04,360 --> 00:09:06,760 Speaker 1: going to need that institutional knowledge. You're going to have 149 00:09:06,840 --> 00:09:09,800 Speaker 1: to have them navigate through the system because those guys 150 00:09:09,800 --> 00:09:11,360 Speaker 1: that are just sitting on the other side of the 151 00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:14,520 Speaker 1: house saying this is what is ideal. That's great, but 152 00:09:14,640 --> 00:09:16,680 Speaker 1: you have to get the others to adopt to it. 153 00:09:17,160 --> 00:09:21,319 Speaker 1: That's probably given that this is literally your job, right 154 00:09:21,480 --> 00:09:26,000 Speaker 1: It is like identifying that pool of talent, but also 155 00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:28,920 Speaker 1: helping organizations who are going through these kinds of transitions 156 00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:32,560 Speaker 1: define who they want that could take on that change 157 00:09:32,559 --> 00:09:35,000 Speaker 1: of strategy, Like what does that like look like in practice? 158 00:09:35,080 --> 00:09:37,160 Speaker 1: Is this a short process? Is this a loan process? 159 00:09:37,160 --> 00:09:41,680 Speaker 1: Like who gets involved? Depending on the stage which you 160 00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:45,680 Speaker 1: know these companies are in trouble or you know, there's 161 00:09:45,760 --> 00:09:48,720 Speaker 1: some event that has happened. And I think I might 162 00:09:48,720 --> 00:09:51,360 Speaker 1: have mentioned this, uh before, is that you know, there 163 00:09:51,400 --> 00:09:53,319 Speaker 1: needs to be an adult in the room that's kind 164 00:09:53,360 --> 00:09:55,800 Speaker 1: of been there, done that, seen it and can tell 165 00:09:55,840 --> 00:09:59,960 Speaker 1: the story again. And so you know, oftentimes those individual 166 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:04,079 Speaker 1: alls are parachuted in quite quickly together with the leadership 167 00:10:04,120 --> 00:10:08,480 Speaker 1: team and the board working in lockstep. Other times, you 168 00:10:08,520 --> 00:10:11,120 Speaker 1: know you're going to see what you're kind of seeing 169 00:10:11,240 --> 00:10:13,640 Speaker 1: in some of the executives that might have come in 170 00:10:13,960 --> 00:10:17,920 Speaker 1: is what we generally call organ rejection. Right, So they've 171 00:10:17,960 --> 00:10:21,880 Speaker 1: come in and they've had really good intentions and you 172 00:10:21,920 --> 00:10:24,559 Speaker 1: know they've just brought in a different perspective, but the 173 00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:29,640 Speaker 1: culture itself or management or however things are working on 174 00:10:29,679 --> 00:10:34,320 Speaker 1: the inside just basically rejected them. And so while all 175 00:10:34,360 --> 00:10:37,319 Speaker 1: intentions were good, it just might not have worked out 176 00:10:37,320 --> 00:10:40,560 Speaker 1: from that perspective. And sometimes the culture piece does run 177 00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:44,079 Speaker 1: very deep, depending on the organization, and so you can 178 00:10:44,120 --> 00:10:47,040 Speaker 1: get immediate sort of organ rejection and you'll see people 179 00:10:47,080 --> 00:10:51,360 Speaker 1: out of there within six months to a year. Colorful phrase, 180 00:10:51,720 --> 00:10:54,160 Speaker 1: I'm definitely I'm gonna have to work this since at 181 00:10:54,160 --> 00:10:59,120 Speaker 1: the title of the episodes on How Up Next, you'll 182 00:10:59,120 --> 00:11:01,920 Speaker 1: hear more on how the Crypto ceo reshuffle could change 183 00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:05,480 Speaker 1: the entire landscape of the industry with Bloomberg Reports, uh 184 00:11:05,480 --> 00:11:22,120 Speaker 1: G Young and executive recruiter deepoly Vas. Broadly speaking, I, 185 00:11:22,760 --> 00:11:25,400 Speaker 1: at least other than the financial crisis, I can't remember 186 00:11:25,440 --> 00:11:28,720 Speaker 1: witnessing an industry where they have been like so many 187 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:32,840 Speaker 1: very senior leadership transitions like this in such a short 188 00:11:32,880 --> 00:11:35,400 Speaker 1: amount of time. Right, it would be like, if you know, 189 00:11:35,600 --> 00:11:40,920 Speaker 1: Bezos and Zuckerberg and Tim Cook, We're all like Tuesday, 190 00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:43,960 Speaker 1: let's do Tuesday, and they all just quit. Like That's 191 00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:46,680 Speaker 1: what it sort of felt like in Crypto. What is 192 00:11:46,880 --> 00:11:49,200 Speaker 1: like the collective effect on the talent pool? Are there 193 00:11:49,240 --> 00:11:50,959 Speaker 1: people out there who are still lining up and being 194 00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:52,439 Speaker 1: like that seems like a really good idea for a 195 00:11:52,520 --> 00:11:54,760 Speaker 1: job transition. I'm going to run one of those companies. 196 00:11:55,120 --> 00:11:57,800 Speaker 1: Or does that make it more challenging to replace these folks? 197 00:11:58,480 --> 00:12:02,360 Speaker 1: I think it's challenging in general. Right, So you have 198 00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:06,960 Speaker 1: one side of the market that is looking for extreme 199 00:12:07,360 --> 00:12:12,360 Speaker 1: entrepreneurial opportunities, extreme challenges. They want to roll up their sleeves, 200 00:12:12,360 --> 00:12:14,800 Speaker 1: they want to get in there. And then the type 201 00:12:14,840 --> 00:12:18,559 Speaker 1: of talent that these crypto companies originally wanted to attract 202 00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:22,760 Speaker 1: was this institutional knowledge that can convert themselves to a 203 00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:26,800 Speaker 1: more entrepreneurial mindset and come in there and help them 204 00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:31,600 Speaker 1: build something great. So that part of the market has certainly, 205 00:12:31,840 --> 00:12:34,400 Speaker 1: you know, taken some pause and say, while I was 206 00:12:34,440 --> 00:12:38,199 Speaker 1: super interested, I bought into the story, I might hit 207 00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:41,240 Speaker 1: the pause button because where I am I'm safe and 208 00:12:41,280 --> 00:12:43,120 Speaker 1: do I want to take on this risk in my 209 00:12:43,240 --> 00:12:46,559 Speaker 1: career at this time and in this particular industry. And 210 00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:50,719 Speaker 1: this is mainly due to the macro economic conditions. Right, 211 00:12:50,840 --> 00:12:53,760 Speaker 1: are we going into a recession? You know, is crypto 212 00:12:54,040 --> 00:12:57,680 Speaker 1: taking an even deeper dive? You know, there's massive consolidation. 213 00:12:57,720 --> 00:12:59,520 Speaker 1: Do I want to work for a company that's going 214 00:12:59,559 --> 00:13:02,040 Speaker 1: to because solidated and then I'll be layered or I 215 00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:04,080 Speaker 1: might be out of there. So there's so many different 216 00:13:04,080 --> 00:13:07,760 Speaker 1: considerations that are going on. I think this shakeout has 217 00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:11,040 Speaker 1: to kind of taper off or level off at some point, 218 00:13:11,320 --> 00:13:13,640 Speaker 1: and that will only be done as soon as we 219 00:13:13,720 --> 00:13:16,720 Speaker 1: know what is the FED doing, you know, whereas inflation? 220 00:13:17,480 --> 00:13:21,080 Speaker 1: What are other parts of the globe doing around the industry? Right, 221 00:13:21,120 --> 00:13:23,760 Speaker 1: what's happening in Asia, what's happening in Europe. And then 222 00:13:23,880 --> 00:13:27,800 Speaker 1: lastly the regulatory environment. Where do the regulatory body see 223 00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:31,520 Speaker 1: us as a digital asset and how are they going 224 00:13:31,559 --> 00:13:33,680 Speaker 1: to deal with us now and in the future and 225 00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:35,840 Speaker 1: what sort of lined up? And then how are the 226 00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:39,680 Speaker 1: banks and other institutions and institutional investors going to treat 227 00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:46,520 Speaker 1: us positively or negatively? Time will tell. Those questions are 228 00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:49,320 Speaker 1: so hard. You're You're like, what is the fact going 229 00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:52,120 Speaker 1: to do? What's gonna happen with regulations? I could understand 230 00:13:52,160 --> 00:13:54,000 Speaker 1: why somebody might be like, I'm just gonna set this 231 00:13:54,040 --> 00:13:56,319 Speaker 1: one out, I'm gonna be okay, But actually you actually 232 00:13:56,360 --> 00:13:58,080 Speaker 1: I want to come back to you, and then deeply 233 00:13:58,120 --> 00:14:00,400 Speaker 1: I'm gonna ask you the same question. Are there certain 234 00:14:00,440 --> 00:14:04,920 Speaker 1: types of industries that the folks in crypto have been 235 00:14:04,960 --> 00:14:07,640 Speaker 1: trying to recruit from? So you age you've written about 236 00:14:07,640 --> 00:14:09,719 Speaker 1: the fact that there was like for a while, the 237 00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:13,000 Speaker 1: sort of revolving door of trad fi to defy, defy 238 00:14:13,040 --> 00:14:15,280 Speaker 1: and the other parts of crypto, And now it's like, 239 00:14:15,520 --> 00:14:20,160 Speaker 1: I might go back to my relatively chill investment banking job. 240 00:14:20,680 --> 00:14:23,600 Speaker 1: How do you think that ship shaking out? Well, it wasn't. 241 00:14:23,680 --> 00:14:26,800 Speaker 1: Banking jobs are not exactly chill but it is a different, 242 00:14:28,040 --> 00:14:31,840 Speaker 1: very different wife from what you get at the crypto firm. 243 00:14:31,920 --> 00:14:35,560 Speaker 1: We are still occasionally writing about news of people who 244 00:14:35,560 --> 00:14:39,960 Speaker 1: are leaving big washway firms and joining crypto. This morning, 245 00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:43,320 Speaker 1: we just wrote about MPT at Goldman SAX who's joining 246 00:14:43,720 --> 00:14:48,400 Speaker 1: Quin based Institutionals for their derivative's effort. So these changes 247 00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:51,720 Speaker 1: are still happening, but I feel like, just based on 248 00:14:51,720 --> 00:14:55,720 Speaker 1: our observation, is less often as I would say the 249 00:14:55,800 --> 00:14:58,880 Speaker 1: latter part of last year when the market was still 250 00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:02,960 Speaker 1: going strong. And I would also note that a lot 251 00:15:03,040 --> 00:15:07,160 Speaker 1: of these replacement of top leaders often come within the 252 00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:10,840 Speaker 1: company or at least within the cryptal communities. It seems 253 00:15:10,840 --> 00:15:14,160 Speaker 1: that they're the ones who already know the company inside 254 00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:18,080 Speaker 1: out and therefore they have an understanding of how things work, 255 00:15:18,280 --> 00:15:22,080 Speaker 1: what are the key issues here? And then oftentimes, with 256 00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:24,840 Speaker 1: short notice, if you have to change your leaders, some 257 00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:28,720 Speaker 1: of these companies will look within themselves to find the 258 00:15:28,760 --> 00:15:36,720 Speaker 1: next leader. And probably how common is that right where 259 00:15:36,720 --> 00:15:40,760 Speaker 1: it's like a company is going through crisis and they're like, actually, Jim, 260 00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:43,600 Speaker 1: who's been here all along, it's gonna be it's going 261 00:15:43,680 --> 00:15:46,440 Speaker 1: to be the new person in charge all the time, 262 00:15:47,160 --> 00:15:49,960 Speaker 1: all the time and I and it's almost as if 263 00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:53,560 Speaker 1: they need to rely on sort of that safe, steady 264 00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:56,640 Speaker 1: pair of hands that have actually seen the story play 265 00:15:56,720 --> 00:15:59,800 Speaker 1: out and they just didn't have the opportunity to jump 266 00:15:59,800 --> 00:16:03,040 Speaker 1: in in. But because they have all of the bird's 267 00:16:03,080 --> 00:16:05,480 Speaker 1: eye view or the front row seat right to what 268 00:16:05,680 --> 00:16:08,720 Speaker 1: has happened, that they would be an ideal candidate to 269 00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:11,760 Speaker 1: kind of step in. When you think about people going 270 00:16:11,800 --> 00:16:14,760 Speaker 1: back to those investment banking jobs, those jobs are also 271 00:16:15,200 --> 00:16:19,560 Speaker 1: sort of drying up in these specific market conditions, right 272 00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:23,560 Speaker 1: like there's less deal flow. Goldman Sacks and other big 273 00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:29,720 Speaker 1: banks have come out with potential layoffs and hiring freezes, etcetera. 274 00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:33,880 Speaker 1: And so that's again just based on market conditions. So 275 00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:36,560 Speaker 1: I would say that for me, if I was just 276 00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:39,920 Speaker 1: sort of predicting future of work for those gyms that 277 00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:42,320 Speaker 1: are sitting in those seats right now that want to 278 00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:45,000 Speaker 1: take on something, I'm going to go out on the 279 00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:48,320 Speaker 1: limb and say, for those companies that we're keeping a 280 00:16:48,360 --> 00:16:51,560 Speaker 1: close eye on crypto, and I'm particularly talking about the 281 00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:55,440 Speaker 1: banks and funds and others, this may be an ideal 282 00:16:55,480 --> 00:16:59,480 Speaker 1: time for them to build something in house. Right, this 283 00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:02,200 Speaker 1: is the time to say all right, there's talent on 284 00:17:02,280 --> 00:17:06,920 Speaker 1: the street, there's consolidation. What can we do to set 285 00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:11,840 Speaker 1: ourselves up for when crypto makes a re emergence after 286 00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:14,440 Speaker 1: this winter? And they would be smart to do so. 287 00:17:15,080 --> 00:17:18,960 Speaker 1: Final question, you are a person who was running a company. 288 00:17:19,040 --> 00:17:21,240 Speaker 1: You spent a lot of really quality time on your yacht. 289 00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:24,320 Speaker 1: Now you're like, I want to you know, like, there's 290 00:17:24,320 --> 00:17:26,320 Speaker 1: only so many beautiful beaches I can spend time on. 291 00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:28,120 Speaker 1: I want to go back and get my hands dirty again, 292 00:17:28,560 --> 00:17:31,640 Speaker 1: but not necessarily in either you know, trad fire Wall 293 00:17:31,680 --> 00:17:34,720 Speaker 1: Street or back into crypto. What from your perspective as 294 00:17:34,760 --> 00:17:36,639 Speaker 1: a recruiter, like, where would you expect to see some 295 00:17:36,680 --> 00:17:40,680 Speaker 1: of those folks popping up? I think the next trend 296 00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:44,560 Speaker 1: is going to be sort of platform as a service 297 00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:48,440 Speaker 1: and data as a service. I think that those individuals 298 00:17:48,520 --> 00:17:54,200 Speaker 1: that have been in any part of the tech, financial services, data, crypto, 299 00:17:54,280 --> 00:17:58,119 Speaker 1: blockchain ecosystem, it's all gonna be kind of in and 300 00:17:58,160 --> 00:18:01,760 Speaker 1: around there, right, So for those yacht goers that want 301 00:18:01,760 --> 00:18:06,760 Speaker 1: to dip back in, they're huge opportunities in these data 302 00:18:07,320 --> 00:18:09,880 Speaker 1: related companies. Right at the end of the day, that's 303 00:18:09,920 --> 00:18:13,399 Speaker 1: the data is going to be king amazing. Well, I 304 00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:16,879 Speaker 1: feel like I learned some things. I feel like this 305 00:18:16,880 --> 00:18:18,639 Speaker 1: is one of those episodes we should post on LinkedIn. 306 00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:22,760 Speaker 1: I feel like, did you recently buy a yacht? Like? 307 00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:26,000 Speaker 1: Listen to the Scrypto episode. Well, thank you both, so 308 00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:27,600 Speaker 1: so much. What a pleasure to have you on the show. 309 00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:30,600 Speaker 1: You can find more of you. H Young is reporting 310 00:18:30,600 --> 00:18:33,760 Speaker 1: on the Bloomberg terminal, on Bloomberg dot com and on Twitter. 311 00:18:34,240 --> 00:18:38,480 Speaker 1: She's at you underscore Young, that's why you e Q 312 00:18:38,760 --> 00:18:45,560 Speaker 1: I underscore y e n G on the next episode 313 00:18:45,560 --> 00:18:50,280 Speaker 1: of Bloomberg Crypto. Of all of the regulatory priorities in 314 00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:56,240 Speaker 1: the world, why is finding Kim Kardashian one point two 315 00:18:56,240 --> 00:19:02,600 Speaker 1: six million dollars at the top of anyone's list. This 316 00:19:02,680 --> 00:19:05,680 Speaker 1: is Bloomberg Crypto, a daily podcast from Bloomberg and I 317 00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:09,040 Speaker 1: Heart Radio. For more shows from I Heart Radio, visit 318 00:19:09,080 --> 00:19:12,119 Speaker 1: the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 319 00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:16,159 Speaker 1: get your podcasts. Send us your comments, questions, or suggestions 320 00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:19,199 Speaker 1: for the show to Crypto at Bloomberg dot net or 321 00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:24,719 Speaker 1: find us on Twitter. We're at Crypto. The supervising producer 322 00:19:24,760 --> 00:19:28,240 Speaker 1: of Bloomberg Crypto is Vicky Vergelina. Our senior producer is 323 00:19:28,320 --> 00:19:32,800 Speaker 1: Janet babin Our producer is Sharon Berrio, Associate producer is 324 00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:37,280 Speaker 1: Thy Butler. Desta wonder At is our engineer. Original music 325 00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:41,920 Speaker 1: by Leo Sidrin. I'm Stacy Marie schmal We'll be back tomorrow.