1 00:00:01,400 --> 00:00:07,360 Speaker 1: Body times. But Joseph's gotten more. I didn't enjoy high school, 2 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,119 Speaker 1: not by a long shot. I was involved in a 3 00:00:12,160 --> 00:00:14,000 Speaker 1: lot of stuff, but I was kind of nerdy, you know, 4 00:00:14,080 --> 00:00:17,120 Speaker 1: kind of on the outside. Played football, was in RTC, 5 00:00:17,480 --> 00:00:20,480 Speaker 1: but beyond that, I couldn't get out of that place 6 00:00:20,800 --> 00:00:24,439 Speaker 1: quick enough. But the people that really kind of, you know, 7 00:00:24,880 --> 00:00:32,239 Speaker 1: stayed with me were my middle school teachers, or as 8 00:00:32,280 --> 00:00:35,440 Speaker 1: we used to call it, junior high school teachers, and 9 00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:38,400 Speaker 1: to a certain degree, my elementary school teachers. There's you know, 10 00:00:38,440 --> 00:00:42,920 Speaker 1: because those are really the first people you have contact 11 00:00:42,960 --> 00:00:46,600 Speaker 1: with as you're kind of developing your learning, and so 12 00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:49,280 Speaker 1: I actually think that they have more of an influence 13 00:00:49,320 --> 00:00:54,160 Speaker 1: on you than maybe even the high school teachers. And 14 00:00:54,200 --> 00:00:56,520 Speaker 1: there are a couple that kind of stand out in 15 00:00:56,640 --> 00:01:01,040 Speaker 1: my mind as I look back through time. It's amazing 16 00:01:01,240 --> 00:01:06,959 Speaker 1: how teachers can change lives to a certain degree. Of course, 17 00:01:07,200 --> 00:01:11,920 Speaker 1: you know, families do it more than actual teachers, but 18 00:01:12,640 --> 00:01:16,640 Speaker 1: they do have an influence. But can you imagine that 19 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:23,039 Speaker 1: you're a student in school and the person that has 20 00:01:23,120 --> 00:01:27,040 Speaker 1: taught you for maybe several years, that you've seen around campus, 21 00:01:27,040 --> 00:01:33,279 Speaker 1: seen in the hallways, suddenly they up and vanish without 22 00:01:33,319 --> 00:01:39,840 Speaker 1: a trace. Today, we're going to have a discussion about 23 00:01:40,640 --> 00:01:46,839 Speaker 1: one such teacher that vanished, and to make matters even 24 00:01:46,920 --> 00:01:50,600 Speaker 1: more interesting, we're going to talk about what turned out 25 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:55,320 Speaker 1: to be her skull that washed up almost one hundred 26 00:01:55,400 --> 00:01:59,240 Speaker 1: miles away from where the rest of her remains were. 27 00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:07,720 Speaker 1: I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is Bodybacks Dave. Who 28 00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:11,320 Speaker 1: was your favorite teacher? Like, do you have a favorite 29 00:02:11,360 --> 00:02:14,720 Speaker 1: teacher like in elementary school or junior Pica? 30 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:15,760 Speaker 2: Second grade? 31 00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:17,079 Speaker 1: Second grade? 32 00:02:17,120 --> 00:02:19,880 Speaker 2: Really missus Sampica, Yeah, she was awesome. 33 00:02:20,600 --> 00:02:23,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, mine was actually in the third grade Missus Peoples. 34 00:02:23,960 --> 00:02:25,120 Speaker 2: Oh wow, Miss Peoples. 35 00:02:25,200 --> 00:02:26,359 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, and. 36 00:02:26,560 --> 00:02:29,639 Speaker 2: Crazy Yeah it is that way, yeah. 37 00:02:29,600 --> 00:02:31,680 Speaker 1: Going back all that way. I mean I can name 38 00:02:31,680 --> 00:02:35,880 Speaker 1: a couple from high school, but primarily in that elementary phase. 39 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:38,480 Speaker 1: For me, it was it was the best I learned 40 00:02:38,480 --> 00:02:41,280 Speaker 1: how to read, you know, really learned how to read, learned, 41 00:02:41,400 --> 00:02:43,600 Speaker 1: you know, started my time's tables. But reading was a 42 00:02:43,639 --> 00:02:46,960 Speaker 1: big deal, was a big escape in my life, you know, 43 00:02:47,000 --> 00:02:50,320 Speaker 1: coming from a family that was topsy turvy and abuse 44 00:02:50,360 --> 00:02:53,600 Speaker 1: that was going on. She had given me a gift 45 00:02:53,840 --> 00:02:57,880 Speaker 1: of being able to read and also the ability to 46 00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:01,720 Speaker 1: retreat from what was going on in my mind and 47 00:03:01,760 --> 00:03:05,119 Speaker 1: being able to escape into a book. And so I read. 48 00:03:05,200 --> 00:03:08,760 Speaker 1: I read everything I used to read. I had two 49 00:03:08,800 --> 00:03:13,480 Speaker 1: sets of of uh encyclopedias in my bedroom, and my 50 00:03:13,560 --> 00:03:15,959 Speaker 1: grandmother gifted both of them to me. One was a 51 00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:19,240 Speaker 1: World Book and the other was funking Wagonal by the way. 52 00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:22,560 Speaker 1: By the way, she had gotten volume by volume from 53 00:03:22,600 --> 00:03:23,960 Speaker 1: Safeway Grocery. 54 00:03:23,520 --> 00:03:26,680 Speaker 2: Scots Way too. 55 00:03:27,440 --> 00:03:30,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, you couldn't afford you couldn't afford World Book. 56 00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:32,000 Speaker 2: You got fun go wagonals. 57 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:34,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, because you'd have to buy the World Book all 58 00:03:34,480 --> 00:03:37,640 Speaker 1: at once. And it would be like a college kid 59 00:03:37,760 --> 00:03:39,320 Speaker 1: that would show up at the door and they're trying 60 00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:41,839 Speaker 1: to make they've got the summer job. I always saw, God, 61 00:03:41,880 --> 00:03:44,240 Speaker 1: that's a tough job. And they would come by and 62 00:03:44,280 --> 00:03:47,240 Speaker 1: they would sell them that way. Uh but yeah, yeah, 63 00:03:47,320 --> 00:03:51,040 Speaker 1: my encyclopedias, and then you know, started out reading The 64 00:03:51,040 --> 00:03:54,000 Speaker 1: Hardy Boys and which I had every one of those 65 00:03:54,080 --> 00:03:56,200 Speaker 1: volumes and and a lot of other stuff. You know, 66 00:03:56,240 --> 00:03:56,560 Speaker 1: it's like a. 67 00:03:56,640 --> 00:03:58,280 Speaker 2: Older reading in second grade. 68 00:03:58,880 --> 00:04:02,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, thing, it truly is. And you know that imprint 69 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:05,680 Speaker 1: is left. But Dave, I got to tell you this 70 00:04:05,680 --> 00:04:08,600 Speaker 1: this case which I'll go at full disclosure right now, 71 00:04:08,960 --> 00:04:12,840 Speaker 1: this is as a result of our great friends at 72 00:04:12,880 --> 00:04:17,280 Speaker 1: Authorm Laps in the Woodlands. They finally close out a 73 00:04:17,320 --> 00:04:19,920 Speaker 1: case that I believe and correct me if I'm wrong. 74 00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:25,520 Speaker 1: I believe initiated in nineteen eighty seven. 75 00:04:25,880 --> 00:04:30,880 Speaker 3: That's when. That's when Kay Adams. That's I can't pronounce 76 00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:34,800 Speaker 3: her other name. I think it's a Medan Meden Meden think, okay, yeah, 77 00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:37,400 Speaker 3: I can go with that. But whenever they give me 78 00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:39,760 Speaker 3: an aka and it has a Smith, Jones or Adams, 79 00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:42,760 Speaker 3: I'm going that way. So either way, maybe that was 80 00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:44,800 Speaker 3: a teaching thing, because you know, sometimes you get a 81 00:04:44,800 --> 00:04:46,960 Speaker 3: teacher and you know them as one name, and then 82 00:04:46,960 --> 00:04:49,240 Speaker 3: they get married and the name changes and it messes 83 00:04:49,279 --> 00:04:51,720 Speaker 3: with everybody. I don't know, but anyway you look at it. 84 00:04:52,080 --> 00:04:55,800 Speaker 3: In nineteen eighty seven, forty eight year old elementary school 85 00:04:55,800 --> 00:05:01,799 Speaker 3: teacher Kay Josephine Medden, her husband goes on a business 86 00:05:01,839 --> 00:05:06,880 Speaker 3: trip and when he returns, she's gone. He goes to police, Hey, 87 00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:10,480 Speaker 3: my wife's missing. They live in a fairly rural area 88 00:05:12,120 --> 00:05:17,560 Speaker 3: in northern California, Humboldt County, and he have a husband. 89 00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:19,440 Speaker 3: Of course, goes to the police, goes to the local 90 00:05:19,480 --> 00:05:21,440 Speaker 3: sheriff and says that my wife's missing. I don't know 91 00:05:21,440 --> 00:05:23,040 Speaker 3: where she is, and so they start looking. I mean, 92 00:05:23,160 --> 00:05:26,239 Speaker 3: he's been gone. She was here when I left, she's 93 00:05:26,279 --> 00:05:29,240 Speaker 3: not here now. I don't know what that would be like, Joe. 94 00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:32,679 Speaker 3: I mean, I'm putting myself in that man's position and going, 95 00:05:33,040 --> 00:05:35,760 Speaker 3: what Because this is a different time nineteen eighty seven, 96 00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:38,320 Speaker 3: you didn't have cell phones, you didn't have the things 97 00:05:38,360 --> 00:05:42,040 Speaker 3: a week right now, If if you and Kim were 98 00:05:42,080 --> 00:05:44,800 Speaker 3: separated by distance, you could pick up the phone and 99 00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:46,040 Speaker 3: get her on the phone right now, there would be 100 00:05:46,120 --> 00:05:48,560 Speaker 3: no missing for a day. If you couldn't get her 101 00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:50,800 Speaker 3: on the phone, and you should, you know, be able 102 00:05:50,839 --> 00:05:52,799 Speaker 3: to get her on the phone, you would have somebody 103 00:05:52,839 --> 00:05:55,800 Speaker 3: looking for her. But in this case, he's gone for 104 00:05:55,839 --> 00:05:57,839 Speaker 3: however long on business and gets home and his wife's 105 00:05:57,880 --> 00:05:59,680 Speaker 3: not there. He didn't have any clue. We don't know 106 00:05:59,720 --> 00:06:02,840 Speaker 3: when she went missing because there was nobody home. 107 00:06:03,440 --> 00:06:05,880 Speaker 1: But yeah, precisely, but we. 108 00:06:05,880 --> 00:06:07,720 Speaker 2: Know they searched as soon as they got home. 109 00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:12,880 Speaker 1: Yeah they did. And keep in mind the specifics of 110 00:06:12,920 --> 00:06:17,560 Speaker 1: the story is kind of interesting, and it goes along, Dave, 111 00:06:17,680 --> 00:06:19,640 Speaker 1: with what you're saying about the husband going on a 112 00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:27,599 Speaker 1: business trip. They merely talk about how she was gone 113 00:06:28,240 --> 00:06:31,360 Speaker 1: or she went and missing. Get this in the summer 114 00:06:31,400 --> 00:06:32,520 Speaker 1: of nineteen eighty seven. 115 00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:33,000 Speaker 2: Yeah. 116 00:06:33,040 --> 00:06:35,880 Speaker 1: Now, I don't know about you, but by my account, 117 00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:39,880 Speaker 1: summer last from essentially like June twentieth or something like 118 00:06:39,920 --> 00:06:43,320 Speaker 1: that most of the time and then into September. So 119 00:06:43,839 --> 00:06:47,599 Speaker 1: that's the kind of broad spectrum that you're working on here. 120 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:50,880 Speaker 1: So obviously they could probably narrow it down. But you know, 121 00:06:50,920 --> 00:06:54,280 Speaker 1: the saying he was on his business trip, Yeah, yeah, precisely, 122 00:06:54,320 --> 00:06:56,600 Speaker 1: and that's how you would go back and pinpoint it. 123 00:06:56,839 --> 00:06:59,280 Speaker 1: The other thing that's kind of missing, you know, in 124 00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:03,480 Speaker 1: the story is the idea of precisely where he went 125 00:07:04,200 --> 00:07:07,839 Speaker 1: on his business trip, you know, where was he? You know, 126 00:07:07,880 --> 00:07:10,480 Speaker 1: and I'm not saying it. Look as you well know, 127 00:07:10,720 --> 00:07:12,920 Speaker 1: you and I are history on the show. You know, 128 00:07:12,960 --> 00:07:16,240 Speaker 1: we talk about you know, looking you know, looking for 129 00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:21,480 Speaker 1: individuals that are associated with the individual, you know, like 130 00:07:21,640 --> 00:07:24,720 Speaker 1: the intimate's familial stuff. And it feels like I ought 131 00:07:24,720 --> 00:07:27,320 Speaker 1: to just have that on a loop. Yeah, you know, 132 00:07:27,440 --> 00:07:29,880 Speaker 1: because but it's it's one of the things that plays 133 00:07:29,920 --> 00:07:32,840 Speaker 1: in to a lot of these cases. But you know, 134 00:07:32,920 --> 00:07:36,680 Speaker 1: he's out, he's away, he's away from her, so that 135 00:07:36,760 --> 00:07:39,960 Speaker 1: he you know, you don't have day to day accountability. 136 00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:42,920 Speaker 1: You know, gee hunt, I'm running to the store or 137 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:45,200 Speaker 1: you know, I'm going to go and see my mom, 138 00:07:45,320 --> 00:07:46,960 Speaker 1: or I'm going to go visit friends for a couple 139 00:07:46,960 --> 00:07:50,600 Speaker 1: of nights or something like that. Back then, that was 140 00:07:50,600 --> 00:07:53,200 Speaker 1: a that was a big ask. You know, you couldn't 141 00:07:53,200 --> 00:07:53,440 Speaker 1: do it. 142 00:07:53,720 --> 00:07:55,320 Speaker 3: I made a couple of notes on that of what 143 00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:58,440 Speaker 3: I would want to know. Yeah, I wonder where her 144 00:07:58,520 --> 00:08:00,840 Speaker 3: husband went on his business trip. I want to know 145 00:08:00,960 --> 00:08:03,720 Speaker 3: how long the husband was gone. I want to know 146 00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:08,240 Speaker 3: did the husband come back from the trip after his 147 00:08:08,360 --> 00:08:11,360 Speaker 3: wife was reported missing or did he come home and 148 00:08:11,440 --> 00:08:15,560 Speaker 3: she had been gone? We know her stuff was left behind, things. 149 00:08:15,360 --> 00:08:16,560 Speaker 1: Like that book. Yeah. 150 00:08:16,720 --> 00:08:19,640 Speaker 3: Still, and back then a woman in her mid forties 151 00:08:19,640 --> 00:08:22,040 Speaker 3: would not leave her house without her pocket. But no, 152 00:08:22,160 --> 00:08:24,720 Speaker 3: you know, first it's on their hip. And then, of 153 00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:26,920 Speaker 3: course did the husband help look for the wife. I 154 00:08:26,920 --> 00:08:31,200 Speaker 3: think he did because they looked over the property. But then, Joe, 155 00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:37,240 Speaker 3: a couple of months go by, and then what happens 156 00:08:37,480 --> 00:08:38,080 Speaker 3: what Joe? 157 00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:39,480 Speaker 2: I feel like the big reveal. 158 00:08:39,280 --> 00:08:43,240 Speaker 3: And now TV's Big Winner. What happened next? 159 00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:47,080 Speaker 1: Joe? Oh my lord. Yeah, so we've gone from quote 160 00:08:47,120 --> 00:08:50,960 Speaker 1: unquote the summer of nineteen eighty seven, to a bit 161 00:08:51,000 --> 00:08:55,800 Speaker 1: more specificity, if you will. So November of nineteen eighty 162 00:08:55,880 --> 00:09:01,840 Speaker 1: seven rolls around and lo and behold, what do the 163 00:09:02,640 --> 00:09:07,800 Speaker 1: members of the Humboldt County Sheriff's Office receiving the mail? 164 00:09:08,440 --> 00:09:14,319 Speaker 1: It's a package of skeletal remains. Now, I don't know 165 00:09:14,360 --> 00:09:19,200 Speaker 1: about you. First off, I can't imagine someone taking skeletal 166 00:09:19,240 --> 00:09:25,960 Speaker 1: remains and placing them in the United States Postal Service 167 00:09:26,640 --> 00:09:33,120 Speaker 1: and having them delivered to a law enforcement agency. And 168 00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:36,360 Speaker 1: can I say one more thing about skeletal remains were 169 00:09:36,480 --> 00:09:41,240 Speaker 1: when we're talking about time here, brother Dave, the fact 170 00:09:41,240 --> 00:09:45,480 Speaker 1: that she went missing in nineteen eighty seven, the summer 171 00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:54,080 Speaker 1: of and the skeletal remains were mailed in November. I 172 00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:57,640 Speaker 1: don't know what the status of those skeletal remains upon 173 00:09:57,720 --> 00:10:01,200 Speaker 1: receipt were, but I can tell you this. I've worked 174 00:10:01,240 --> 00:10:10,000 Speaker 1: a lot of cases involving skeletonized remains and partially skeletonized remains, Okay, 175 00:10:10,120 --> 00:10:12,240 Speaker 1: in that same timeframe, and a lot of it depends 176 00:10:12,280 --> 00:10:17,840 Speaker 1: upon obviously depends upon the environmental conditions. But Dave, I 177 00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:20,520 Speaker 1: got to tell you, after a period, let's say that 178 00:10:20,600 --> 00:10:26,880 Speaker 1: she went missing in June. Okay, so we got July, August, September, October, November. 179 00:10:26,920 --> 00:10:29,800 Speaker 1: That's five months, Dave. Most of the time, if you 180 00:10:29,840 --> 00:10:32,680 Speaker 1: were to find skeleton remains out in the woods after 181 00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:34,440 Speaker 1: a five month period, you're still going to have some 182 00:10:34,440 --> 00:10:38,200 Speaker 1: soft tissue, provided that animals hadn't gotten to it. So 183 00:10:38,280 --> 00:10:44,080 Speaker 1: that opens up an entirely different world here. If these remains, 184 00:10:44,400 --> 00:10:48,079 Speaker 1: let's just say the status of them was completely cleaned 185 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:54,000 Speaker 1: upon arrival at the Sheriff's office, you're talking about something 186 00:10:54,360 --> 00:11:00,040 Speaker 1: that is so beyond the pale here, because if you 187 00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:03,400 Speaker 1: got an individual that brought about her death, all right, 188 00:11:03,480 --> 00:11:07,120 Speaker 1: and they had these skeleton remains, they spent time with them, Dave, 189 00:11:07,480 --> 00:11:11,640 Speaker 1: They've actually spent tom cleaning them. And I don't know, 190 00:11:11,679 --> 00:11:13,320 Speaker 1: that's just one of the first things that kind of 191 00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:14,680 Speaker 1: popped in my mind with this. 192 00:11:15,080 --> 00:11:19,440 Speaker 3: It makes sense because Joe, in order for them to 193 00:11:19,679 --> 00:11:24,640 Speaker 3: become skeleton, just a skeleton bone, they weren't left out 194 00:11:24,679 --> 00:11:26,319 Speaker 3: in the woods to their own device. I'm going to 195 00:11:26,360 --> 00:11:29,080 Speaker 3: assume that it's not like this is a boy scout 196 00:11:29,120 --> 00:11:31,200 Speaker 3: that was out of a cad jamboree. He got lost 197 00:11:31,240 --> 00:11:32,920 Speaker 3: in the woods, found some bones and said, hey, I'm 198 00:11:32,920 --> 00:11:34,319 Speaker 3: going to put these in a bag and I'll take 199 00:11:34,320 --> 00:11:35,960 Speaker 3: them back. And oh, I don't want to be accused 200 00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:38,280 Speaker 3: of any wrongdoing, so I'm going to anonymously mail them 201 00:11:38,280 --> 00:11:41,280 Speaker 3: from San Francisco. Now that's not what happened. That does 202 00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:42,160 Speaker 3: not make any sense. 203 00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:45,040 Speaker 1: This thing will. And just so our friends understand, this 204 00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:49,600 Speaker 1: was in fact postmarked out of Cruisco, right, so included 205 00:11:49,679 --> 00:11:56,320 Speaker 1: something else. Yeah, please please tell a lot because this 206 00:11:56,400 --> 00:11:58,280 Speaker 1: thing you just get, you know, what was it? Ali said? 207 00:11:58,280 --> 00:12:01,520 Speaker 1: It gets curious or and curious or yeah, police go ahead, man. 208 00:12:01,400 --> 00:12:01,719 Speaker 2: All right. 209 00:12:01,760 --> 00:12:06,360 Speaker 3: So we have bones sent in the mail and they 210 00:12:06,400 --> 00:12:09,520 Speaker 3: find a note, and the note is a treasure map 211 00:12:09,559 --> 00:12:11,040 Speaker 3: you meant from the Hardy Boys a little while ago. 212 00:12:11,520 --> 00:12:13,520 Speaker 3: I like to think of as GOLDA balloons and pieces 213 00:12:13,520 --> 00:12:16,960 Speaker 3: of eight all belong to applegate the gold is here. 214 00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:22,080 Speaker 3: But wait, so they get a map that they remains 215 00:12:22,080 --> 00:12:25,160 Speaker 3: are incomplete. It's not a complete skeleton. They're just getting 216 00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:27,880 Speaker 3: parts here, just pieces of bone or bones. I don't 217 00:12:27,880 --> 00:12:29,920 Speaker 3: know to what level because they've never really broken it down. 218 00:12:30,160 --> 00:12:33,360 Speaker 3: But a letter that was included with the bones included 219 00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:38,000 Speaker 3: directions to more bones, but what was found was still 220 00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:42,920 Speaker 3: an incomplete set. So whoever did this sent some of 221 00:12:42,960 --> 00:12:46,200 Speaker 3: the bones to the police to get their attention. Then 222 00:12:46,320 --> 00:12:52,480 Speaker 3: he sent them on a scavenger hunt to find more bones. 223 00:12:53,360 --> 00:12:57,040 Speaker 2: Was he in the woods watching? Wow? 224 00:12:57,840 --> 00:13:02,600 Speaker 1: And again that's quite chilling. And since we're talking about 225 00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:08,080 Speaker 1: a coastal area, we're talking about an area that is rural, 226 00:13:08,640 --> 00:13:14,520 Speaker 1: wide open. I wonder did X actually mark the spot? 227 00:13:28,920 --> 00:13:32,080 Speaker 1: I got a question for you, Dave. Would you like 228 00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:38,160 Speaker 1: to know would you like to know if we get 229 00:13:38,160 --> 00:13:43,320 Speaker 1: how we clean bones that we get from a scene 230 00:13:43,880 --> 00:13:46,520 Speaker 1: that are brought back to our facility at a medical 231 00:13:46,520 --> 00:13:48,840 Speaker 1: examiner's office. Would you like to know how we do that? 232 00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:51,160 Speaker 3: I am kind of curious at this point, to be 233 00:13:51,200 --> 00:13:53,040 Speaker 3: honest with you, mainly because I'm thinking about how did 234 00:13:53,040 --> 00:13:54,839 Speaker 3: these bones come in, you know. 235 00:13:54,760 --> 00:13:56,760 Speaker 2: Where there's scene or what was going on with them. 236 00:13:56,760 --> 00:13:59,680 Speaker 1: There's a couple of couple of methodologies here, all right. 237 00:14:00,120 --> 00:14:03,400 Speaker 1: It's to hold onto your hat because most people don't 238 00:14:03,440 --> 00:14:06,720 Speaker 1: realize that this is even a thing, all right. So 239 00:14:06,760 --> 00:14:10,640 Speaker 1: if we have remains that and when I say partial 240 00:14:10,920 --> 00:14:14,560 Speaker 1: skeletal remains, generally what happens when you find when you 241 00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:19,200 Speaker 1: find a body. I have found, at least in my experience, 242 00:14:19,360 --> 00:14:24,120 Speaker 1: that the things that actually the areas that degrade the 243 00:14:24,160 --> 00:14:26,080 Speaker 1: most where you're going to have the least soft tissue 244 00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:29,640 Speaker 1: are going to be the appendicular skeleton, which is like 245 00:14:29,680 --> 00:14:33,800 Speaker 1: the arms and the legs. Okay, so the feet you'll 246 00:14:33,800 --> 00:14:38,160 Speaker 1: have little bones, the little complex bones that kind of 247 00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:40,560 Speaker 1: fall away. You have to be real careful, particularly the 248 00:14:40,600 --> 00:14:44,000 Speaker 1: feet and the fingers and that sort of thing. But 249 00:14:44,120 --> 00:14:47,120 Speaker 1: then as you get closer to the core, there's still 250 00:14:47,120 --> 00:14:50,320 Speaker 1: a chance you're going to have soft tissue. Most of 251 00:14:50,320 --> 00:14:53,560 Speaker 1: the time, it's going to be like leather. And even 252 00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:57,400 Speaker 1: on the arms you might have leather like skin that's there, 253 00:14:57,480 --> 00:15:01,880 Speaker 1: and it's because it's kind of being cure naturally, all right, 254 00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:07,240 Speaker 1: So in human skin does appear like leather specifically. All right, 255 00:15:08,160 --> 00:15:10,400 Speaker 1: I'm not going to get I'm not going to go 256 00:15:10,440 --> 00:15:13,560 Speaker 1: down the road of ed Geen here. That's another episode 257 00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:17,280 Speaker 1: where he was, you know, turning human hides. He was 258 00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:21,480 Speaker 1: treating them to tan them, you know, and that sort 259 00:15:21,480 --> 00:15:24,600 Speaker 1: of thing. But that's that's a discussion for another day. 260 00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:28,920 Speaker 1: But at the back at the Medical Examiner's facility, if 261 00:15:28,960 --> 00:15:34,640 Speaker 1: you have an anthropology lab, we actually have cauldrons there. 262 00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:42,360 Speaker 1: They're not black cast iron cauldrons, however, cauldrons nonetheless, and 263 00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:46,280 Speaker 1: there are these big stainless steel pods. We will detach 264 00:15:46,960 --> 00:15:50,800 Speaker 1: as best we can without traumatizing the remains too much. 265 00:15:50,880 --> 00:15:54,640 Speaker 1: We will try to kind of almost pull apart those 266 00:15:54,680 --> 00:16:01,080 Speaker 1: scales remains and place them into this cauldron. It's got 267 00:16:01,160 --> 00:16:05,400 Speaker 1: water in it. Okay, And if anybody out there knows 268 00:16:05,400 --> 00:16:08,000 Speaker 1: what a crockpot is, I think of coming home from 269 00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:10,480 Speaker 1: church and Mom's got a pot roast in there she's 270 00:16:10,520 --> 00:16:13,840 Speaker 1: been cooking. You ever notice how the meat, you know, 271 00:16:14,040 --> 00:16:18,000 Speaker 1: literally falls off as a result of slow cooking. Well, 272 00:16:18,240 --> 00:16:23,280 Speaker 1: it's the same principle with rendering down human remains. You 273 00:16:23,760 --> 00:16:27,560 Speaker 1: would it has been explained to me by forensic anthropologists. 274 00:16:27,600 --> 00:16:29,520 Speaker 1: You don't want to do it at too high He 275 00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:32,720 Speaker 1: is kind of a slow kind of thing. And the 276 00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:35,880 Speaker 1: only thing I've been able to compare it to is 277 00:16:35,920 --> 00:16:40,240 Speaker 1: a crockpot. And I've actually seen a very large crockpot 278 00:16:40,320 --> 00:16:45,440 Speaker 1: in a morgue before, where they would take smaller elements 279 00:16:45,560 --> 00:16:48,840 Speaker 1: of human bodies and render them down that way over 280 00:16:48,880 --> 00:16:51,320 Speaker 1: a period of time. What happens is is that the 281 00:16:51,400 --> 00:16:58,520 Speaker 1: tissue essentially separates gently from the bones, and the bones, 282 00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:01,720 Speaker 1: of course are heavier, so they'll settle to the bottom. 283 00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:05,160 Speaker 1: What was one of the things that was really really 284 00:17:05,160 --> 00:17:07,679 Speaker 1: disturbing to me, and even by my standards. You know. 285 00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:12,359 Speaker 1: It's like when you you go to retrieve these these 286 00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:14,560 Speaker 1: remains and the way they have it with the so 287 00:17:14,640 --> 00:17:19,200 Speaker 1: called cauldron. They're big stainless steel things. They have a 288 00:17:20,119 --> 00:17:23,800 Speaker 1: they have like a basket that sits down in it, okay, 289 00:17:24,840 --> 00:17:28,760 Speaker 1: almost like you're doing a crawfish bowl, all right, or 290 00:17:28,840 --> 00:17:31,600 Speaker 1: crab ball, and you drop it into, you know, into 291 00:17:31,680 --> 00:17:36,200 Speaker 1: the pot. You know, well, this thing's very fine, it's 292 00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:38,600 Speaker 1: got little tiny holes in it. And so after the 293 00:17:38,680 --> 00:17:41,760 Speaker 1: soft tissue kind of drifts away, you pull this thing 294 00:17:41,880 --> 00:17:45,200 Speaker 1: up and the skeletal remains have settled to the bottom 295 00:17:45,240 --> 00:17:51,680 Speaker 1: of this basket. And when you when you take that 296 00:17:51,760 --> 00:17:56,720 Speaker 1: lid off. Initially though, there is like this really disgusting 297 00:17:57,440 --> 00:18:02,320 Speaker 1: beige froth that's on top of the on top of 298 00:18:02,359 --> 00:18:06,320 Speaker 1: the fluid in this thing, okay, and then you just 299 00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:08,960 Speaker 1: kind of drain it like that. And once you get 300 00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:13,840 Speaker 1: to that point, you carefully go through these remains because 301 00:18:13,880 --> 00:18:17,879 Speaker 1: the key here is to try to determine what's missing, 302 00:18:19,280 --> 00:18:25,320 Speaker 1: because are you dealing with a incomplete skeleton? Did you 303 00:18:25,359 --> 00:18:30,560 Speaker 1: gather for everything at the scene? Did a dog come 304 00:18:30,640 --> 00:18:36,520 Speaker 1: up and wander away with some critical bit of an 305 00:18:36,520 --> 00:18:41,679 Speaker 1: anatomical element, and you're it's gone forever and a forever 306 00:18:41,720 --> 00:18:46,560 Speaker 1: and ever. Amen, and every bit to this, particularly in 307 00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:52,720 Speaker 1: the case of this teacher, everything has evidentiary value, Dave. 308 00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:56,760 Speaker 1: So it's key that you you try to assemble as 309 00:18:56,840 --> 00:19:00,760 Speaker 1: much of the skeleton as you can. I'm just fascinated 310 00:19:01,359 --> 00:19:07,879 Speaker 1: that they had these bones that are sent in to 311 00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:13,080 Speaker 1: the police department, a collection of bones which they've retained, 312 00:19:13,320 --> 00:19:17,359 Speaker 1: all right, and then they send the police, like you said, 313 00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:21,520 Speaker 1: on a treasure hunt with How bizarre is this. I've 314 00:19:21,560 --> 00:19:25,680 Speaker 1: never even heard of anything like this to go find 315 00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:31,040 Speaker 1: more skeleton remains, which they did recover. I'm if I'm 316 00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:35,240 Speaker 1: understanding this correctly, but it was still incomplete David. 317 00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:37,840 Speaker 2: That was actually before we started. 318 00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:40,879 Speaker 3: I asked Joe a couple of questions because that's exactly 319 00:19:40,960 --> 00:19:44,840 Speaker 3: what happened. I thought, Okay, obviously you have somebody here 320 00:19:44,920 --> 00:19:45,760 Speaker 3: who has. 321 00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:52,480 Speaker 2: Has We can't jump to that conclusion. I know we can't. 322 00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:56,320 Speaker 3: But they had to have killed this poor woman and 323 00:19:56,359 --> 00:19:59,760 Speaker 3: then hacked or body of rendered it down to bones. 324 00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:03,080 Speaker 3: I mean, this isn't like it happened in nature and 325 00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:04,760 Speaker 3: somebody found it and mailed it in. 326 00:20:05,119 --> 00:20:06,040 Speaker 2: Just none of that makes sense. 327 00:20:06,080 --> 00:20:08,520 Speaker 3: What does make sense is that there's a really sadistic 328 00:20:08,560 --> 00:20:11,800 Speaker 3: witch out here, male or female, that did this. They 329 00:20:11,920 --> 00:20:14,159 Speaker 3: killed a forty eight year old elementary school teacher, is 330 00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:17,000 Speaker 3: what they did, while her husband was away, and then 331 00:20:17,160 --> 00:20:20,240 Speaker 3: did her endous things to her body, and then didn't 332 00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:22,399 Speaker 3: even send it all into police. They let them on 333 00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:25,119 Speaker 3: a wild goose chase and didn't even give them all 334 00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:27,399 Speaker 3: the bones, just gave them enough to keep them looking. 335 00:20:27,920 --> 00:20:31,159 Speaker 3: And this case went on for decades. They could not 336 00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:34,679 Speaker 3: solve it. And I'm wondering Joe from nineteen eighty seven 337 00:20:35,160 --> 00:20:38,040 Speaker 3: when you mentioned this a minute ago, we know she 338 00:20:38,080 --> 00:20:41,240 Speaker 3: went missing sometime in the summer of eighty seven. Was 339 00:20:41,359 --> 00:20:44,600 Speaker 3: the first group of bones came in November of eighty seven, 340 00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:48,560 Speaker 3: and they were postmarked from San Francisco. The bones had 341 00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:50,919 Speaker 3: to have been mechanically rendered down because in nature they 342 00:20:50,960 --> 00:20:53,000 Speaker 3: would not have been bones, only they would have had 343 00:20:53,040 --> 00:20:55,240 Speaker 3: other things on them, and they probably would have been 344 00:20:55,280 --> 00:20:59,199 Speaker 3: scattered hither and yonn from animals. But they're mailed in 345 00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:02,119 Speaker 3: from San frids Cisco or San Francsco. And folksmark with 346 00:21:02,200 --> 00:21:05,879 Speaker 3: a note. So you've got all kinds of evidence here. 347 00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:07,639 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, what do you do it. 348 00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:10,880 Speaker 2: To somebody who had something to do with these bones? 349 00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:15,400 Speaker 2: And yeah? Age back then, buddy, No. 350 00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:18,200 Speaker 1: No, no, it wasn't. It wasn't. We're talking about eighty seven. 351 00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:20,880 Speaker 1: I'd already been I'd already been practicing as a death 352 00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:23,520 Speaker 1: investigator for two years by the time down in New Orleans. 353 00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:26,800 Speaker 1: So and no, you know, we we weren't in the 354 00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:29,600 Speaker 1: Stone Age. I mean we had we were certainly limited 355 00:21:29,640 --> 00:21:32,959 Speaker 1: in certain areas compared to where we are today, specifically 356 00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:36,119 Speaker 1: in DNA. But you know there are other things. But 357 00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:38,719 Speaker 1: here's another bit that they would have had access to. 358 00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:44,720 Speaker 1: First off, if you've got a note, was it written 359 00:21:44,760 --> 00:21:49,760 Speaker 1: in long hand or was it typed? Okay? And so 360 00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:53,880 Speaker 1: even with that, if you're doing it on what's saying old? 361 00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:56,880 Speaker 1: Do you remember the selectric computers? I don't know. Did 362 00:21:56,920 --> 00:21:58,080 Speaker 1: you take typing in high school? 363 00:21:58,080 --> 00:22:02,360 Speaker 3: Talking about yeah, annual? We only had three electric ones, Joe. Yeah, 364 00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:03,760 Speaker 3: we had to learn how a manual type. 365 00:22:03,880 --> 00:22:06,200 Speaker 1: So you had the arm that would push it back, Yeah, 366 00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:07,680 Speaker 1: like a royal type. 367 00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:13,840 Speaker 3: To mash them hard. Used my fingers how deformed one? 368 00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:15,000 Speaker 2: Okay, that's true. 369 00:22:15,040 --> 00:22:18,439 Speaker 3: I played basketball. I jammed this fingermail. Yeah. Yeah, on 370 00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:21,040 Speaker 3: my right hand, I jammed and it popped that knuckle. 371 00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:22,840 Speaker 3: I had to hide it from my parents. We have 372 00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:25,639 Speaker 3: money for a doctor, and so the Lord and I 373 00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:28,600 Speaker 3: had typing. I had typing class that nine weeks in 374 00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:30,920 Speaker 3: seventh grade, and I had to tape it. I put 375 00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:32,440 Speaker 3: a piece of metal on the ends like a post. 376 00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:34,800 Speaker 3: I had so much trouble with that. I had to know, my. 377 00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:37,560 Speaker 1: Lord man who rated? I got to ask who rated 378 00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:40,639 Speaker 1: the electric typewriter? So were they teacher's pets? Yeah, it 379 00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:41,720 Speaker 1: had to be, because it wasn't me. 380 00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:44,840 Speaker 2: I know. I was just trying to get to thirty 381 00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:46,120 Speaker 2: words for minutes I could pass. 382 00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:48,760 Speaker 1: No kid, Yeah, that was my goal too. And I 383 00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:51,560 Speaker 1: will tell you so if you think in eighty seven your. 384 00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:55,640 Speaker 3: Computers, Joe, the best class I ever had was typing 385 00:22:56,680 --> 00:22:58,280 Speaker 3: because it taught me how to use a keyboard. 386 00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:01,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, it did, it did. And I guess they still 387 00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:03,159 Speaker 1: teach typing. I don't know if they do or not. 388 00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:07,200 Speaker 1: I know they teach a lot of information science classes 389 00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:10,320 Speaker 1: now and maybe yeah, no kid, so thumbs, yeah, and 390 00:23:10,359 --> 00:23:14,160 Speaker 1: I've got dumb thumb. So it's I'll miss misspell things 391 00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:15,080 Speaker 1: many times. 392 00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:16,160 Speaker 2: At any rate. 393 00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:18,919 Speaker 1: So Yeah, so if you're Leopolden Love. 394 00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:20,960 Speaker 3: They had a typewriter, the type the note. Remember that 395 00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:23,320 Speaker 3: mantle didn't throw it away in parts, and they still 396 00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:24,960 Speaker 3: were able to find that and put it back together. 397 00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:26,600 Speaker 3: That was sixty years before. 398 00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:31,040 Speaker 1: This, right, And so with those those those strikes on 399 00:23:31,119 --> 00:23:35,240 Speaker 1: a piece of paper, you might think that every single 400 00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:38,000 Speaker 1: typewriter in the world is the same. Let's just say 401 00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:41,320 Speaker 1: that I was. I was kind of uh, you know, 402 00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:44,359 Speaker 1: laughing a second deal about royal typewriters, but you know, 403 00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:47,600 Speaker 1: you think about the old manual typewriters. That strike that 404 00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:51,720 Speaker 1: takes place when you depress that button requires a lot 405 00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:54,639 Speaker 1: of force. You can actually strike it and it's going 406 00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:56,760 Speaker 1: to hit that tape that has the ink on it, 407 00:23:57,720 --> 00:23:59,879 Speaker 1: and you can have a light strike or a heart strike. 408 00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:02,119 Speaker 1: I know all of this because when I was at 409 00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:04,800 Speaker 1: the State Medical Examiner's Office, assigned there for like eight 410 00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:08,879 Speaker 1: months with the State Medical Examiner's Office in Georgia. My 411 00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:14,120 Speaker 1: office was immediately adjacent to the question document person, and 412 00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:16,400 Speaker 1: she and I became great friends. And I would sit 413 00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:18,840 Speaker 1: there and I was amazed at what she what she 414 00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:23,840 Speaker 1: the vast, her vast spectrum of learning everything from counterfeit 415 00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:31,160 Speaker 1: money to hand handwriting to two old typewriters, even computer stuff, 416 00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:33,840 Speaker 1: you know, at that at that point in time. So yeah, 417 00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:37,080 Speaker 1: you've got that bit of evidence, which would still be significant. 418 00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:39,560 Speaker 1: But look, you can have all the typed letters in 419 00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:43,720 Speaker 1: the world, but if you don't have a machine to 420 00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:46,920 Speaker 1: go back to. Now, there are certain machines out there 421 00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:52,440 Speaker 1: that generate a particular type of strike that would separate one, 422 00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:57,399 Speaker 1: like one particular brand from another. You know that that 423 00:24:57,480 --> 00:24:59,399 Speaker 1: might be something that you could go on, but you 424 00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:02,240 Speaker 1: would have to you know, and you can narrow it 425 00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:06,360 Speaker 1: down to say selectric, all right, and there's but how 426 00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:09,520 Speaker 1: many additions of selectric were made over the years, you 427 00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:12,320 Speaker 1: know that somebody could got you know, we can't even 428 00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:14,160 Speaker 1: begin to calculate. 429 00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:15,639 Speaker 2: That you could find a fingerprint on the paper. 430 00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:19,119 Speaker 1: Yeah you could again, I think I mentioned the other 431 00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:22,160 Speaker 1: day about the use of what you've got, Like one 432 00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:26,000 Speaker 1: of the ways you recover prints off of paper is 433 00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:28,600 Speaker 1: you can either use like ninhydrant spray or you can 434 00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:31,800 Speaker 1: use iodine as well, and that binds with it and 435 00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:36,280 Speaker 1: you can actually pick up on grassen I dine idne 436 00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:42,359 Speaker 1: raising raising latent prints on paper and it's beautiful. I 437 00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:45,199 Speaker 1: mean it's there forever and ever amen once you do 438 00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:48,600 Speaker 1: it though, So yeah, and the features are very unique. 439 00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:53,960 Speaker 1: Here's another piece to this, no pun intended. But with 440 00:25:54,320 --> 00:26:00,080 Speaker 1: the skeletal remains, let's say that he didn't have knowledge 441 00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:04,520 Speaker 1: of Professor Morgan's crock pots, all right, and what we 442 00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:12,040 Speaker 1: know to use in forensics and how anthropologists render things down, Well, 443 00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:15,160 Speaker 1: that leads me to think that if he's taking soft 444 00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:20,960 Speaker 1: tissue off, did he use a knife or some other 445 00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:24,920 Speaker 1: sharp object. Well, if he did that, then these bones 446 00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:29,680 Speaker 1: there's a high probability you'd have tool marks in various 447 00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:34,359 Speaker 1: locations on these bones, which is a gold mine. But again, 448 00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:37,879 Speaker 1: just like with the typewriter. Hell, just like with DNA, 449 00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:43,160 Speaker 1: if you don't have an original source of a knife, 450 00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:50,960 Speaker 1: of a typewriter, or somebody's DNA which you've collected, doesn't 451 00:26:51,000 --> 00:27:07,720 Speaker 1: initially have much value. So you know, we have this 452 00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:15,760 Speaker 1: presentation of the skeletal remains which arrive at the Humboldt 453 00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:20,760 Speaker 1: County Sheriff's office, along with a note, this kind of 454 00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:25,119 Speaker 1: cryptic note to again send the police out to a 455 00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:30,119 Speaker 1: specific location or recover remains. But Dave, something happened in 456 00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:35,879 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety three relative to this case, and I'm actually 457 00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:39,600 Speaker 1: kind of fascinated by this because what are the odds, 458 00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:44,480 Speaker 1: what are the odds that this particular partial element would 459 00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:47,480 Speaker 1: ever be discovered. It's almost like there's a hand of 460 00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:48,359 Speaker 1: providence on this. 461 00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:50,920 Speaker 2: Why is it an anonymous person that founded? 462 00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:51,200 Speaker 3: Joe? 463 00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:53,160 Speaker 2: I'm curious about. 464 00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:56,159 Speaker 3: That because the finder of this piece of skull, the 465 00:27:56,240 --> 00:28:02,159 Speaker 3: person who founded, is anonymous to us, and where they 466 00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:04,439 Speaker 3: found it is kind of. 467 00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:05,880 Speaker 1: I would say it. 468 00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:09,000 Speaker 2: Oh, they're impossible. Yeah, I mean I. 469 00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:14,040 Speaker 3: Got some real questions about this that I'm not suitable 470 00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:16,480 Speaker 3: to ask, you know, I just really wonder, Joe, I mean, 471 00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:18,840 Speaker 3: does this not make you question everything? 472 00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:20,440 Speaker 2: But you know about it? 473 00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:22,560 Speaker 3: Because we know we got the first set mailed in 474 00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:25,280 Speaker 3: with the note to the second set? And now we 475 00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:27,720 Speaker 3: have part of a skull, and I'm assuming a couple 476 00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:29,800 Speaker 3: other bones, not just one little piece of bone here, 477 00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:31,760 Speaker 3: because how would you pick up one piece of bone 478 00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:33,280 Speaker 3: and it wouldn't think I got a human skull. 479 00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:35,800 Speaker 2: I don't know how big it was to you? Was 480 00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:36,200 Speaker 2: it big? 481 00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:38,959 Speaker 1: No? I don't know. It sounds like it was fragmented 482 00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:42,840 Speaker 1: and yeah, either well, there's any number of things that 483 00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:48,640 Speaker 1: could have happened. All right, Maybe the skull maybe the 484 00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:50,760 Speaker 1: skull or that portion of skull, because it was a 485 00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:53,640 Speaker 1: partial skull that was recovered. And if I'm not mistaken, 486 00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:59,960 Speaker 1: this skull, this part of the skull was actually found 487 00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:04,440 Speaker 1: uh on a beach area and what's referred to as 488 00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:09,160 Speaker 1: Trinidad Head one hundred miles away. Yeah, one hundred miles 489 00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:12,840 Speaker 1: away from her home. One hundred miles. 490 00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:15,520 Speaker 2: So Trinidad Head. Is that a tip? 491 00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:23,040 Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, I hadn't even considered that, Dave. Really, 492 00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:27,800 Speaker 1: you're in the wrong line of work, dude. That's yeah, 493 00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:30,760 Speaker 1: that's actually kind of fascinating, isn't it. And so you 494 00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:33,920 Speaker 1: we don't know who the finder is and they're never named, 495 00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:38,400 Speaker 1: but they found this, this partial of a skull, and 496 00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:45,560 Speaker 1: how that skull would make it back to the rest 497 00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:48,320 Speaker 1: of the remains again is kind of fascinating as well. 498 00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:51,120 Speaker 1: You know how, and I'm asking this in a, you know, 499 00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:54,320 Speaker 1: a kind of a generalized kind of way. How did 500 00:29:54,320 --> 00:30:02,479 Speaker 1: they connect these remains from Humboldt County to this partial 501 00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:06,240 Speaker 1: skull that's one hundred miles away. And the other thing 502 00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:10,640 Speaker 1: too here I can't get past the idea of that 503 00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:15,200 Speaker 1: note and those remains being mailed from San Francisco. You know, 504 00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:18,680 Speaker 1: I know, as a native California you can explain this 505 00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:21,360 Speaker 1: to us, because you know, those of us that are 506 00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:28,240 Speaker 1: uneducated geographically about California, we always hear the terms northern California. 507 00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:33,320 Speaker 1: It's northern California, Southern California. You're a Southern California, dude. 508 00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:37,520 Speaker 1: And so you've got northern California and this is northern California. 509 00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:40,920 Speaker 1: And I've driven up the coastal road there one on one. 510 00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:44,200 Speaker 1: There's a whole lot of northern California. Not to say 511 00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:48,320 Speaker 1: there's not a lot of southern California, but it's worth 512 00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:50,040 Speaker 1: to go the more isolated it is. 513 00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:52,960 Speaker 3: I grew up in suburbia, you know. I grew up 514 00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:57,400 Speaker 3: where our second grade field trip, yeah, a dairy farm. 515 00:30:57,480 --> 00:31:01,040 Speaker 3: So we could see cows in person, Okay, actually see them, 516 00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:03,480 Speaker 3: because none of us had ever seen a cow. I mean, 517 00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:05,720 Speaker 3: where are we going to see a cow? We saw 518 00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:09,240 Speaker 3: kmart and we saw you know, and so that was 519 00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:11,240 Speaker 3: a big deal for us. And but you go to 520 00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:14,520 Speaker 3: northern California and they're slaughter and hogs where they go 521 00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:16,920 Speaker 3: to school. I mean, it's a big difference, you know, 522 00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:19,800 Speaker 3: And it's beautiful up there. It is breathtakingly beautiful as 523 00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:20,480 Speaker 3: those county. 524 00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:22,560 Speaker 1: Yes it is. And you know, when I saw the 525 00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:27,720 Speaker 1: images of this Trinidad head as you as it's being 526 00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:32,280 Speaker 1: referred to as this location where this remnant is found, 527 00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:36,120 Speaker 1: it's and I urge anybody that's listening to this episode 528 00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:39,560 Speaker 1: go check out the images of this place. It's striking, 529 00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:45,440 Speaker 1: I mean absolutely striking. And that's still some great distance 530 00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:51,040 Speaker 1: from San Francisco. So and then to get even further, 531 00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:53,520 Speaker 1: if you get up to the area that's the town 532 00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:56,600 Speaker 1: of Eureka, which a lot of this is kind of 533 00:31:56,640 --> 00:32:00,520 Speaker 1: centered around relative to Humboldt County, that's still a great, 534 00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:03,080 Speaker 1: great drive up there as well. I mean you're talking 535 00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:07,920 Speaker 1: about a massive distance here when you couple all three 536 00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:12,040 Speaker 1: of these geographic points along the way. So how do 537 00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:15,760 Speaker 1: these remains get dispersed and how do they bring them 538 00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:21,560 Speaker 1: all back together collectively so that you can try to 539 00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:25,640 Speaker 1: try to come up with some kind of narrative about 540 00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:28,480 Speaker 1: what happened, because you know, you can look at us, 541 00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:32,320 Speaker 1: you can look at a skeleton, all right, and even 542 00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:37,680 Speaker 1: absent a head, all right, the skull forensic anthropologists who 543 00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:41,480 Speaker 1: are excellent at this. If you have a pelvis or 544 00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:45,280 Speaker 1: even part of a pelvis. They can actually look at 545 00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:46,920 Speaker 1: that pelvis and give you an idea if this is 546 00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:50,520 Speaker 1: a male or female. Generally, female pelvis is are wider 547 00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:53,880 Speaker 1: to accommodate a birth canal, and the males tend to 548 00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:57,880 Speaker 1: be more narrow. The bones with females are referred to 549 00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:03,240 Speaker 1: and I love this word. It's the term grassile. Grass 550 00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:07,720 Speaker 1: Isle actually refers it's kind of translates loosely into the 551 00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:11,440 Speaker 1: word for fine, like fine, delicate, that sort of thing. 552 00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:16,440 Speaker 1: Whereas with male skeletons, they're referred to as robust, you know, 553 00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:18,680 Speaker 1: and a lot of that hinges on, you know, facial 554 00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:20,840 Speaker 1: characteristics if you have a skull. But even with a 555 00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:24,640 Speaker 1: partial skull, trust me, anthropologists are going to take a 556 00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:26,640 Speaker 1: stab at it and they're going to try to put 557 00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:30,000 Speaker 1: all of this together. But however, they were able to 558 00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:34,640 Speaker 1: reconstitute these remains. When it comes down to brass tacks, 559 00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:39,200 Speaker 1: humbold County still had an unidentified and what they knew 560 00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:44,320 Speaker 1: as a female Jane Doe that was within their jurisdiction. 561 00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:47,960 Speaker 1: And I can only imagine, you know, and this is 562 00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:50,040 Speaker 1: the thing. You can have people that will call in 563 00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:53,320 Speaker 1: and report cases all right, they'll say, you know, my 564 00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:57,040 Speaker 1: mom's missing or my daughter is missing. But just because 565 00:33:57,040 --> 00:34:01,280 Speaker 1: you say they're missing doesn't mean that. Okay, nineteen eighty seven, 566 00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:06,920 Speaker 1: that's ninety seven, that's ten, two thousand and seven, that's twenty, twenty, seventeen, 567 00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:11,960 Speaker 1: thirty years after thirty years, is anybody going to remember 568 00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:14,920 Speaker 1: that there was one hundred person search team scouring the 569 00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:17,759 Speaker 1: area up there when she went missing? Is anybody going 570 00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:19,759 Speaker 1: to have a recollection of that? No, because so many 571 00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:23,719 Speaker 1: other things have happened since that time. The fact that 572 00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:27,319 Speaker 1: they were able to do this kind of reconstitution of 573 00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:33,120 Speaker 1: this skeleton and then come up with an actual name 574 00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:38,319 Speaker 1: is absolutely amazing, and that brings us to who. 575 00:34:38,360 --> 00:34:43,680 Speaker 3: Dave Authorm Always back to Authorm when when I was 576 00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:45,680 Speaker 3: looking at this, Joe, and I was going back because 577 00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:48,440 Speaker 3: I was looking at the notes from ninety three, and 578 00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:51,640 Speaker 3: because you're talking to a lot of DNA. We're talking 579 00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:54,319 Speaker 3: about this the other day of the great strides that 580 00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:56,720 Speaker 3: had been made. But by ninety three they were pretty 581 00:34:56,719 --> 00:34:59,920 Speaker 3: set up to get a lot of information, a lot. 582 00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:00,960 Speaker 2: A lot of it was new. 583 00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:02,840 Speaker 3: Hill didn't always know what to do with it, but 584 00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:07,520 Speaker 3: it was there, and Authorn was able to Basically it 585 00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:11,800 Speaker 3: gets down to genetic genealogy again of we've got a link, 586 00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:13,879 Speaker 3: now let's find it back. And this is the part 587 00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:17,239 Speaker 3: that I always tell folks. Author is so amazing at this. 588 00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:20,319 Speaker 3: The work they do is so intense that they can't 589 00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:22,080 Speaker 3: even do it Like you and I work and we 590 00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:24,480 Speaker 3: considered our desk and work and do whatever for five 591 00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:27,400 Speaker 3: six seven hours. They do it at fifteen minutes at 592 00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:31,239 Speaker 3: a crack because it's such intense work that they have 593 00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:32,319 Speaker 3: to take be forced to. 594 00:35:32,239 --> 00:35:33,239 Speaker 1: Take a break, yep. 595 00:35:33,719 --> 00:35:36,640 Speaker 3: And I imagine they don't want to because each little 596 00:35:36,680 --> 00:35:39,759 Speaker 3: thing they pull back, it's like can you imagine being 597 00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:42,640 Speaker 3: on that hunt and each one you know, it's this is. 598 00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:44,960 Speaker 1: We're that close, We're close. 599 00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:47,080 Speaker 3: And it is that a level of thinking that I 600 00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:52,000 Speaker 3: cannot comprehend that that I'm thinking, you're so smart, How 601 00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:53,600 Speaker 3: are we still the same species? 602 00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:54,040 Speaker 2: You know it? 603 00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:57,440 Speaker 1: I know it seems like they've risen above a certain 604 00:35:57,640 --> 00:36:01,240 Speaker 1: of my pay grade. I can see some day someday 605 00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:04,160 Speaker 1: you and I are going to visit the woodlands in Texas. 606 00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:06,880 Speaker 1: It's the area just north of Houston. I'm going to 607 00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:09,040 Speaker 1: take you to that lab. And when you go to 608 00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:13,319 Speaker 1: Authorm's lab. It's like you're walking onto the deck of 609 00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:17,239 Speaker 1: the starship Enterprise. It is so amazing, and everything is 610 00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:20,880 Speaker 1: really locked down because they're work they're actively working cases 611 00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:25,040 Speaker 1: in there that have open investigations. You know, before you 612 00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:28,520 Speaker 1: can actually walk through the area, they literally have to 613 00:36:28,560 --> 00:36:31,440 Speaker 1: stop what they're doing and collect everything they're working on 614 00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:34,360 Speaker 1: and secure it and then you can walk through the area. 615 00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:38,320 Speaker 1: That's how that's how locked down this place is. And 616 00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:43,760 Speaker 1: but just to see the technology that they're using and 617 00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:48,040 Speaker 1: and the strides that they have made. And again, this 618 00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:53,040 Speaker 1: goes back to to k and it always comes back 619 00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:55,719 Speaker 1: to and I believe she is a victim here, even 620 00:36:55,719 --> 00:36:59,960 Speaker 1: though I cannot definitively say that she is a homicide victim. 621 00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:04,040 Speaker 1: There are so many things that are pointing to somebody 622 00:37:04,239 --> 00:37:09,040 Speaker 1: else's hand involved in this. And it seems like I've 623 00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:11,520 Speaker 1: used this term a lot lately. I don't know, it's 624 00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:15,959 Speaker 1: on my mind. Perhaps i'd say a sadist that would 625 00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:21,960 Speaker 1: do this because you're not you've had her remains, assuming 626 00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:24,880 Speaker 1: that what we believe is true, and you have particulated 627 00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:29,400 Speaker 1: her remains, you're rendering down her remains and you're literally 628 00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:31,880 Speaker 1: waving it in the face of law enforcement not to 629 00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:36,399 Speaker 1: mention and I hate to report this, but her husband too, 630 00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:39,960 Speaker 1: and you know he if I'm not mistaken, he died 631 00:37:40,040 --> 00:37:44,800 Speaker 1: just a few years ago and he never got to 632 00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:47,719 Speaker 1: see a resolution to this. Can you imagine going through 633 00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:50,000 Speaker 1: the rest of your life. And maybe he remarried, I 634 00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:54,680 Speaker 1: don't know, but still, even if he did remarry, that 635 00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:57,120 Speaker 1: question would always linger in the back of this poor 636 00:37:57,160 --> 00:38:00,360 Speaker 1: man's mind. And I can guarantee you there were people 637 00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:05,000 Speaker 1: around there and around this case that said, you know, quiet, quietly, 638 00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:07,560 Speaker 1: hush tones, Yeah, we think he had something to do 639 00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:09,879 Speaker 1: with it. There's always those people. 640 00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:15,680 Speaker 3: You know, because Joe, we have such vagueness to the beginning. Yeah, 641 00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:19,080 Speaker 3: where you know, he went on a business trip and 642 00:38:19,160 --> 00:38:22,319 Speaker 3: he came back and his wife was gone. We don't 643 00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:24,799 Speaker 3: know when she was gone because we weren't looking for 644 00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:26,800 Speaker 3: her before he left. We don't know when he actually 645 00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:28,800 Speaker 3: left or when he came back. I mean, there's a 646 00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:32,319 Speaker 3: lot of unknowns there. But let's assume that they tied 647 00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:34,799 Speaker 3: all that down and we're able to say, hey, this, 648 00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:38,279 Speaker 3: you know, let's hope that she was there with him 649 00:38:38,280 --> 00:38:40,000 Speaker 3: at the airport and they took a picture as he 650 00:38:40,040 --> 00:38:42,520 Speaker 3: got on the plane. You know, that's what I would 651 00:38:42,520 --> 00:38:44,160 Speaker 3: hope that, because that's the only way you're going to 652 00:38:44,239 --> 00:38:45,480 Speaker 3: have that guy in the clear. 653 00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:48,600 Speaker 2: Otherwise, what a miserable life of doubt. 654 00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:52,200 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, and it would always haunt you. You know. 655 00:38:52,239 --> 00:38:56,640 Speaker 1: I think about this case, and I think again, going 656 00:38:56,680 --> 00:38:59,120 Speaker 1: back to this idea, if we believe that that she 657 00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:01,200 Speaker 1: died at the hand end of another, which is of 658 00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:06,319 Speaker 1: course how we define a homicide. I reflect on this 659 00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:11,040 Speaker 1: and I think if this was La or even San Francisco, 660 00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:15,399 Speaker 1: you might say, well, yeah, you know, there's people here 661 00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:17,319 Speaker 1: that would break into somebody's house and do this sort 662 00:39:17,320 --> 00:39:21,640 Speaker 1: of thing. Sacramento that sort of thing. But Dave, where 663 00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:26,920 Speaker 1: they lived, by all accounts, it's so isolated. It seems 664 00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:32,040 Speaker 1: to me that whoever had an awareness that this couple 665 00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:36,759 Speaker 1: lived there would be very familiar, not only familiar with that, 666 00:39:37,160 --> 00:39:40,440 Speaker 1: but also familiar with the comings and goings of her 667 00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:46,480 Speaker 1: and her husband. Additionally, you brought up a great point, 668 00:39:47,080 --> 00:39:49,600 Speaker 1: and it really hit me like a ton of bricks 669 00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:54,440 Speaker 1: when you made the mention about the map and sending 670 00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:58,759 Speaker 1: those police out there to look for those remains. Was 671 00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:04,600 Speaker 1: he watching? Was he watching? I don't know, Maybe he was, 672 00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:11,920 Speaker 1: because if he has a sadistic meant he would probably 673 00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:15,040 Speaker 1: take great pleasure in doing that sort of thing. But 674 00:40:15,160 --> 00:40:17,600 Speaker 1: we do know this, We do know that part of 675 00:40:17,640 --> 00:40:22,640 Speaker 1: this puzzle, at least relative to who this victim was, 676 00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:29,840 Speaker 1: has been solved. The journey of any death investigation generally starts, 677 00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:33,440 Speaker 1: in my opinion, at least with the identification of a victim, 678 00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:37,920 Speaker 1: because if you learn who they are, that is the 679 00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:42,200 Speaker 1: first step on a long journey towards success, because once 680 00:40:42,239 --> 00:40:47,000 Speaker 1: you know who they are, you begin to explore who 681 00:40:47,040 --> 00:40:50,040 Speaker 1: their associates were. Who was it that she came in 682 00:40:50,080 --> 00:40:54,520 Speaker 1: contact with. Well, back in eighty seven, she was teaching 683 00:40:54,560 --> 00:40:57,920 Speaker 1: in a public school. She had contact with a lot 684 00:40:57,960 --> 00:41:04,560 Speaker 1: of people, students, parents, staff members, maybe the guy that 685 00:41:04,680 --> 00:41:09,000 Speaker 1: was coming to the school to deliver sodas, or the 686 00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:11,560 Speaker 1: people that will pull up in the truck and deliver 687 00:41:11,600 --> 00:41:13,480 Speaker 1: the food, or maybe the guy that hauled away the 688 00:41:13,520 --> 00:41:16,759 Speaker 1: trash at the school. See, in a small community, if 689 00:41:16,760 --> 00:41:21,680 Speaker 1: you work at a school, you probably have more contact 690 00:41:21,840 --> 00:41:25,319 Speaker 1: with individuals in that tiny community than anyone else that 691 00:41:25,440 --> 00:41:28,600 Speaker 1: might occupy that same space. So I think that that 692 00:41:28,760 --> 00:41:32,520 Speaker 1: is probably the starting place in this case, because at 693 00:41:32,520 --> 00:41:35,760 Speaker 1: this point in time, the husband who has unfortunately passed 694 00:41:35,760 --> 00:41:40,000 Speaker 1: on is not somebody you can go back and chat with. 695 00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:44,480 Speaker 1: But there are people to chat with. But again, a 696 00:41:44,520 --> 00:41:49,920 Speaker 1: big shout out to our friends at Authorm. They are doing, 697 00:41:50,440 --> 00:41:52,799 Speaker 1: in my estimation, God's work. I think that this is 698 00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:54,879 Speaker 1: the noblest thing that you can do as far as 699 00:41:54,920 --> 00:41:58,799 Speaker 1: death investigation goes. The reason and I always say this, 700 00:41:58,920 --> 00:42:01,160 Speaker 1: the reason that I belie leaving what they're doing is 701 00:42:01,239 --> 00:42:04,520 Speaker 1: I've stood over the graves of so many people that 702 00:42:04,560 --> 00:42:10,040 Speaker 1: were placed into potters Field with no name, simply an 703 00:42:10,040 --> 00:42:14,320 Speaker 1: aluminum band that's wrapped around their ankle, wrapped around the 704 00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:17,440 Speaker 1: wrist that's snapped in place. They're placed in a body 705 00:42:17,480 --> 00:42:21,080 Speaker 1: bag and thrown in an unmarked grave, and it just 706 00:42:21,120 --> 00:42:23,480 Speaker 1: says Jane Do or John Doe. So many of those 707 00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:25,799 Speaker 1: cases I stood over and watched them push the dirt in. 708 00:42:27,480 --> 00:42:30,640 Speaker 1: They're clearing these, my friends, They're clearing them, and you 709 00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:35,120 Speaker 1: can help clear them too. If you're interested in participating 710 00:42:35,880 --> 00:42:41,720 Speaker 1: in bringing a family out there peace to yourself favor, 711 00:42:43,239 --> 00:42:49,240 Speaker 1: log on to DNA solts dot com. You can go there. 712 00:42:49,680 --> 00:42:52,480 Speaker 1: You can pick out a case. Maybe it's in your region, 713 00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:55,040 Speaker 1: maybe it's a case. When you hear the background, it 714 00:42:55,680 --> 00:42:58,800 Speaker 1: kind of catches you. It grabs you by your heart 715 00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:01,560 Speaker 1: and you say, what I want to help with this, 716 00:43:02,480 --> 00:43:05,719 Speaker 1: and they'll take anything that you can give them. They're 717 00:43:05,719 --> 00:43:08,799 Speaker 1: not picky, all right, because they have to reach a 718 00:43:08,840 --> 00:43:11,399 Speaker 1: certain amount and it's like seven thousand to seventy five 719 00:43:11,480 --> 00:43:14,600 Speaker 1: hundred bucks just to get the ball rolling on this 720 00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:18,800 Speaker 1: Star Trek technology, as I'd mentioned, to move the case forward. 721 00:43:19,400 --> 00:43:22,000 Speaker 1: But you might be the person that pushes it over 722 00:43:22,040 --> 00:43:24,480 Speaker 1: the edge, and by virtue of a donation that you make, 723 00:43:25,520 --> 00:43:29,920 Speaker 1: you might bring peace to a family somewhere out there 724 00:43:30,600 --> 00:43:33,439 Speaker 1: that is always looking in an empty chair, that never 725 00:43:33,520 --> 00:43:37,480 Speaker 1: knows what happened to their loved one. I'm Joseph Scott 726 00:43:37,520 --> 00:43:40,440 Speaker 1: Morgan and this is Body Backs