WEBVTT - UCSD and the Palestine Exception to Free Speech 0:00:01.760 --> 0:00:07.480 A media. 0:00:07.240 --> 0:00:10.280 Hi, and welcome to the show. It's me James today 0:00:10.640 --> 0:00:13.040 and I'm very fortunate to be joined by a member 0:00:13.039 --> 0:00:15.920 of the UCSD faculty, someone who is a professor of 0:00:15.960 --> 0:00:19.680 environmental physics at Script's Institution of Usunography. You're also teaching 0:00:19.720 --> 0:00:23.760 the Critical Gender Studies department, and we're talking today about 0:00:23.840 --> 0:00:28.760 the disciplinary action that they are facing for participation in 0:00:28.840 --> 0:00:31.760 the Guards of Solidarity Encampment. So welcome to the show. 0:00:31.800 --> 0:00:34.920 Thanks for joining us. Thank you, James. I'm really happy 0:00:34.920 --> 0:00:35.479 to be here. 0:00:36.040 --> 0:00:38.640 Yeah, it's great too, great to have you. I'm glad 0:00:38.680 --> 0:00:41.360 we can share our platform and talk about this. So 0:00:41.400 --> 0:00:43.640 I think to begin with, you know, it's been a 0:00:43.640 --> 0:00:45.960 little while perhaps, I know a lot of people have 0:00:46.000 --> 0:00:48.800 sort of been investigating and changing their politics in the 0:00:48.880 --> 0:00:52.159 last year or so, so perhaps you could explain a 0:00:52.200 --> 0:00:55.440 little bit about the Guards of Solidarity Encampment, the moment 0:00:55.600 --> 0:00:57.920 that came in and the role that it played in 0:00:57.960 --> 0:01:02.840 the anti genocide Palestinian liberation movement at uc San Diego 0:01:02.880 --> 0:01:04.000 more broadly. 0:01:04.120 --> 0:01:08.800 Yes, once again for this opportunity. So, the encampment at 0:01:09.000 --> 0:01:14.800 UCSD was set up on May first, twenty twenty four, 0:01:15.880 --> 0:01:20.640 and that was happening in the context of encampments that 0:01:20.680 --> 0:01:25.760 were being set up at universities across the US. I 0:01:25.840 --> 0:01:32.440 believe that the UCSD encampment was approximately the hundredth encampment 0:01:33.240 --> 0:01:38.119 set up in the US at that time. There's quite 0:01:38.120 --> 0:01:40.800 a number of interesting things about kind of the whole 0:01:40.920 --> 0:01:45.240 encampment movement. First of all, the fact that they met 0:01:45.240 --> 0:01:50.800 with such severe repression is very suggestive that how effective 0:01:50.920 --> 0:01:55.160 they were in bringing the issues related to the genocide 0:01:55.200 --> 0:01:59.279 and the occupation of Palestine to the forefront in ways 0:01:59.280 --> 0:02:02.200 that certainly were aren't happening in the US at the time. 0:02:03.240 --> 0:02:08.919 Another thing about the encampments that I found really interesting 0:02:09.000 --> 0:02:14.080 but also I mean, I think brilliant from a organizing perspective, 0:02:14.560 --> 0:02:20.320 is that they were very visually and viscerally recreating the 0:02:20.440 --> 0:02:25.920 conditions under which Palestinians in Gaza were living at the 0:02:25.960 --> 0:02:31.200 time and still are, having been displaced from their residences 0:02:32.639 --> 0:02:36.600 and being forced to live in these very makeshift at 0:02:36.639 --> 0:02:41.080 tent encampments. And so there was a recreation len of 0:02:41.280 --> 0:02:44.959 those conditions in a very visual way. And I think 0:02:44.960 --> 0:02:49.280 that that also was in some sense reminiscent of the 0:02:49.280 --> 0:02:55.920 shantytowns that were constructed on college campuses in the US 0:02:56.120 --> 0:03:01.160 in the mid eighties in the anti apartheid movement, So 0:03:01.360 --> 0:03:05.359 I think paying attention to some of those those details 0:03:05.360 --> 0:03:08.480 which off and get lost. We started talking about, you know, 0:03:08.680 --> 0:03:13.520 rise police and so forth. These encampments were They weren't 0:03:13.800 --> 0:03:17.720 just you know, a bunch of students hanging out. These 0:03:17.760 --> 0:03:23.760 were constructed and developed in a very thoughtful manner, and 0:03:23.800 --> 0:03:27.760 that was definitely the case at UCSD, as I was 0:03:27.840 --> 0:03:32.200 told by students who were participating in it, as a 0:03:32.240 --> 0:03:39.360 space you engage in education and research about the genocide 0:03:39.920 --> 0:03:45.560 and about the occupation of Palestine, as well as the 0:03:45.640 --> 0:03:50.880 ties that UCSD had to the occupation and the genital 0:03:51.080 --> 0:03:55.440 side in Palestine. So you had, and I talked to 0:03:55.480 --> 0:03:58.760 many students who were actively engaged in this. You had 0:03:58.760 --> 0:04:05.440 students sitting on their laptops doing research about the UCSD's 0:04:05.560 --> 0:04:13.200 ties to weapons and manufacturers, the ways that UCSD supported 0:04:13.600 --> 0:04:18.159 the discourses that were enabling the genocide and the occupation, 0:04:18.279 --> 0:04:23.200 including archaeological research, and also you know, there was a 0:04:23.240 --> 0:04:28.640 program associated with every day and the students would plan teachings. 0:04:29.320 --> 0:04:35.760 Sometimes professors would do the teachings, sometimes students, sometimes community members. 0:04:36.400 --> 0:04:40.280 There were teachings on a whole range of really interesting topics, 0:04:40.880 --> 0:04:44.640 including of course about Palestine, about the genocide, but also 0:04:45.440 --> 0:04:50.480 about other issues like the role of surveillance and surveillance 0:04:50.520 --> 0:04:56.200 technology in the genocide, the ecoside that was happening continues 0:04:56.240 --> 0:04:59.960 to happen in Gaza and Palestine. And so it was 0:05:00.320 --> 0:05:03.760 it was a place of an amazing place of learning 0:05:04.600 --> 0:05:09.680 and research and also community engagement. So as I said, 0:05:09.880 --> 0:05:14.039 you know, outside speakers are being brought in, community members 0:05:14.040 --> 0:05:20.160 were coming in and participating and learning, and so you know, 0:05:20.279 --> 0:05:25.039 those three things, research, teaching, and community engagement, those are 0:05:25.080 --> 0:05:32.200 precisely the things that the university tells us as faculty 0:05:32.360 --> 0:05:36.200 and students that we should be doing. So it to 0:05:36.240 --> 0:05:42.120 me the encampment was functioning even though it wasn't getting 0:05:42.120 --> 0:05:45.760 any support from the university, and it was actually Universities 0:05:46.640 --> 0:05:51.520 throughout its five days of existence, was trying to shut 0:05:51.520 --> 0:05:55.440 it down despite all that it was functioning essentially like 0:05:55.480 --> 0:05:59.320 any other research institute on campus, and I would say 0:05:59.360 --> 0:06:04.120 probably than many of the research institutes on campus. 0:06:04.520 --> 0:06:07.440 Yeah, you know, I tended a few times to talk 0:06:07.480 --> 0:06:11.840 to people to observe to do my journalism. As you said, 0:06:11.880 --> 0:06:15.840 a university immediately was very obviously very hostile. You had 0:06:15.880 --> 0:06:21.320 people from like university administration giving out little flyers or 0:06:21.320 --> 0:06:26.360 something about like university rules, and there was constant presence 0:06:26.360 --> 0:06:31.920 of UCPD, constant presence of administration, constant concerns for people 0:06:32.000 --> 0:06:35.000 about their safety in the encampment. As you said, the 0:06:35.040 --> 0:06:37.719 university was very hostile to it, despite it doing things 0:06:37.760 --> 0:06:44.120 at the university purports to believe in. Let's discuss briefly 0:06:44.160 --> 0:06:49.080 the history. UCSD hasn't always come down so hard on 0:06:49.160 --> 0:06:52.400 protest movements, but it also has something of a history 0:06:52.440 --> 0:06:57.440 of handling these moments very poorly, I would say. So 0:06:57.480 --> 0:06:59.600 perhaps we could begin, yeah, if you could talk about 0:06:59.600 --> 0:07:02.039 the antia partype movement, and then we can move through 0:07:02.400 --> 0:07:04.800 what people have called the Black Winter at UCSD and 0:07:05.040 --> 0:07:07.240 some of the other things that we both have some 0:07:07.320 --> 0:07:07.880 experience of. 0:07:08.520 --> 0:07:12.960 Yeah. Yeah, so it's very interesting to me. I mean, 0:07:12.960 --> 0:07:17.160 of course, you know, many people are aware of the 0:07:17.240 --> 0:07:22.240 history of a student activism at UCSD, and many times 0:07:22.280 --> 0:07:27.880 when you just mentioned that, people immediately think of Angela Davis, 0:07:28.240 --> 0:07:34.800 who of course was fired by UCSD but then went 0:07:34.840 --> 0:07:40.560 on to become a distinguished professor at uc Sata Cruz 0:07:41.320 --> 0:07:48.800 And you know, just prolific and amazing scholar academic but 0:07:49.080 --> 0:07:54.560 not talking about obscure academic topics, but you know, topics 0:07:54.560 --> 0:07:59.040 that are directly relevant to people's lives. So many of 0:07:59.080 --> 0:08:03.920 those topics and so now, of course the UCSD celebrates 0:08:04.040 --> 0:08:10.080 Angela Davis without mentioning that they fired her. So there's 0:08:10.200 --> 0:08:12.240 kind of a there is a little bit of this. 0:08:13.240 --> 0:08:19.040 This Okay, we're going to try to suppress Steed's movements, 0:08:19.120 --> 0:08:23.559 but then later on celebrate them. So there, of course 0:08:23.640 --> 0:08:27.920 were quite a number of other stuphle led movements. One 0:08:27.960 --> 0:08:30.920 of them, as you mentioned, was the anti apartheid movement, 0:08:31.840 --> 0:08:36.320 and of course that was also part of a national movement. 0:08:36.520 --> 0:08:43.280 Especially Berkeley was very strong campus in that respect, but 0:08:43.679 --> 0:08:47.800 you know, numerous campuses across the US were involved in 0:08:47.800 --> 0:08:52.319 that movement, as was UCSD, and we had the UCSD 0:08:52.920 --> 0:08:57.040 the students, and this was in nineteen eighty five. It 0:08:57.080 --> 0:09:01.880 took place over a period of out about four or 0:09:01.960 --> 0:09:07.439 five months. As I recall, the students had numerous protests 0:09:08.120 --> 0:09:10.640 and at the time for people who were familiar with 0:09:10.679 --> 0:09:17.280 the u SSD campus. UCSD has grown significantly since the eighties, 0:09:17.320 --> 0:09:22.800 but at that time, the central meeting place for campus 0:09:23.280 --> 0:09:27.960 was and what's called Ravel College and Revel Plaza. So 0:09:28.000 --> 0:09:33.760 there were numerous protests there anti apartheype protests. The students 0:09:34.080 --> 0:09:38.520 on several occasions set up replica shanty towns on the 0:09:38.920 --> 0:09:43.640 Revel Plaza, as happened at many other universities in the US. 0:09:44.040 --> 0:09:51.200 Those were basically replicas of impoverished conditions that South African 0:09:51.840 --> 0:09:56.080 black folks had to live in under apartheid in South Africa. 0:09:57.040 --> 0:09:59.520 So they were setting up to the shantydown student kind 0:09:59.520 --> 0:10:04.680 of reprinting those conditions visually. And additionally, during that four 0:10:04.760 --> 0:10:09.360 or five month period, the students occupied the Humanities Library 0:10:09.440 --> 0:10:13.720 which was called Galbraith Hall. It's just adjacent to rod 0:10:13.720 --> 0:10:17.480 All Plaza. They took over the library and they occupied 0:10:17.480 --> 0:10:20.640 it for a month, more than a month, okay, Yeah, 0:10:21.320 --> 0:10:23.720 And like all of these things happened and there were 0:10:23.800 --> 0:10:30.480 no invasions of the riot police or anything. And what 0:10:30.720 --> 0:10:34.679 came out of that movement that the U sees was 0:10:35.240 --> 0:10:43.520 that the regents decided to divest from all corporations associated 0:10:43.559 --> 0:10:47.320 with South Africa. So that was like a major win. 0:10:47.920 --> 0:10:51.559 But it was not just a win for the student movements, 0:10:51.559 --> 0:10:54.240 but it was also a win for the university. Because 0:10:55.000 --> 0:10:59.680 the students were basically able to show the university that 0:11:00.320 --> 0:11:05.160 participating in this very unjust system with something that shouldn't 0:11:05.160 --> 0:11:09.120 be doing. And so the students basically helped the university 0:11:09.240 --> 0:11:12.520 to see that. Yeah, and so by kind of allowing 0:11:12.600 --> 0:11:16.280 these protests to happen, in a sense, it allowed the 0:11:16.440 --> 0:11:21.480 university administration and I'm not singing their praises, because you know, 0:11:21.800 --> 0:11:26.199 they were quite retrograde in many ways as they are now, 0:11:26.600 --> 0:11:29.480 But by kind of stepping back and allowing these things 0:11:29.559 --> 0:11:34.319 to happen, the university was able to learn from what 0:11:34.360 --> 0:11:38.120 the students were saying and to act on it. So 0:11:38.200 --> 0:11:42.880 I feel that that moment in history was something that 0:11:43.679 --> 0:11:46.959 I mean, I know the current administration hasn't forgotten because 0:11:47.000 --> 0:11:51.440 they celebrate it now. They say, you know, how wonderful 0:11:51.520 --> 0:11:55.960 we were for divesting from South Africa and look at 0:11:55.960 --> 0:11:59.480 our great students, you know. But Okay, so that happened 0:11:59.600 --> 0:12:03.280 in the eighties. Before we get to Black Winner, I'm 0:12:03.280 --> 0:12:07.400 just going to mention one other event, which I think 0:12:07.480 --> 0:12:12.360 is significant, especially when we're thinking about encampments. So, in 0:12:12.440 --> 0:12:17.800 nineteen ninety two, UCSD was the only UC campus that 0:12:17.920 --> 0:12:23.440 did not have a Women's Resource center. And women and 0:12:23.480 --> 0:12:28.320 their allies on campus had been organizing to get a 0:12:28.360 --> 0:12:33.560 women's center since the seventies on the UCSD campus, but 0:12:33.640 --> 0:12:37.280 they have mostly been ignored by the administration or you know, 0:12:37.800 --> 0:12:40.280 where are we going to find the money, blah blah blah. 0:12:40.480 --> 0:12:44.040 So a student led but they were also like staff 0:12:44.240 --> 0:12:49.839 and faculty involved as well, because the famal misogyny was 0:12:50.640 --> 0:12:55.840 very real on the UCSD campus. Then I arrived UCSD 0:12:55.920 --> 0:13:01.400 in nineteen ninety and I immediately saw problem, so I 0:13:01.880 --> 0:13:05.760 was very aware of it. So the organizers then of 0:13:05.880 --> 0:13:11.760 this movement decided to set up an encampment on what 0:13:11.960 --> 0:13:15.240 is called sun God Lawn, which is kind of a 0:13:15.320 --> 0:13:21.520 major open space on campus. So they set up this 0:13:21.760 --> 0:13:26.400 encampment and basically they reproduced what they envisioned a women's 0:13:26.440 --> 0:13:29.680 center would look like, and so they essentially opened a 0:13:29.720 --> 0:13:33.760 women's center in this open space. They set up this encampment, 0:13:33.840 --> 0:13:37.920 they staffed it twenty four to seven and it was 0:13:38.000 --> 0:13:42.200 up for a week. No arrests, room made, no disciplinary 0:13:42.320 --> 0:13:48.480 charges resulted. But the university then started paying attention to 0:13:48.559 --> 0:13:52.040 the demand for a resource center, and it took them 0:13:52.200 --> 0:13:57.280 several years, but they eventually set up the Women's Resource 0:13:57.320 --> 0:14:02.360 Center that exists now in ninety five. So again that 0:14:02.640 --> 0:14:08.679 was an encampment where the administration was basically able to 0:14:08.760 --> 0:14:15.480 learn from the acticus on campus about you know how 0:14:15.559 --> 0:14:17.840 they basically kind of behave reasonably. 0:14:18.360 --> 0:14:20.920 Yeah, let's take a little break and when we come back, 0:14:21.000 --> 0:14:23.480 Lan and talk about the Black Winter, which coincides with 0:14:23.520 --> 0:14:26.320 the start of my own time at uc San Diego. 0:14:36.120 --> 0:14:40.320 And then the third example of this is is something 0:14:40.360 --> 0:14:45.040 that's called Black Winter, and it's a essentially a three 0:14:45.160 --> 0:14:51.160 week intense period of organizing on campus that happened. 0:14:51.800 --> 0:14:55.760 I mean it was in response and direct response to 0:14:56.440 --> 0:15:01.160 a racist party that was how by one of the 0:15:01.400 --> 0:15:06.960 UCSD fraternities that they called the Compton Cookout. They put 0:15:07.040 --> 0:15:12.800 out an announcement on Facebook, which was probably the golanto 0:15:12.960 --> 0:15:17.600 today's Instagram and I don't even know, probably many of 0:15:17.640 --> 0:15:23.000 your listeners haven't even heard Facebook, but and back then 0:15:23.120 --> 0:15:26.480 it was it was very big, and it was a 0:15:26.520 --> 0:15:33.040 you know, just despicable racist description of a party where 0:15:33.120 --> 0:15:40.080 people were supposed to dress up as what they imagine people, 0:15:40.600 --> 0:15:47.760 you know, characters from from Compton would look like. And 0:15:47.840 --> 0:15:51.640 of course, you know, students who found out about this, 0:15:51.760 --> 0:15:56.680 you're very upset at the time. The students in the 0:15:56.720 --> 0:16:02.000 Black Student Union and in Match, who were working very 0:16:02.000 --> 0:16:05.840 closely together, had been organizing for quite a number of 0:16:06.000 --> 0:16:10.720 years prior to this around you know what at the time, 0:16:10.960 --> 0:16:16.960 this is twenty ten, was called campus climate. And that's 0:16:17.040 --> 0:16:21.760 basically just the fact that there was a lot of racism, 0:16:22.640 --> 0:16:30.640 sometimes overt racism, sometimes less overt microaggressions that were very 0:16:30.720 --> 0:16:36.600 common and for many especially black students but really all 0:16:36.680 --> 0:16:41.840 states of color and also queer and trans students as 0:16:42.840 --> 0:16:47.880 were basically had to navigate this like every day, I 0:16:47.920 --> 0:16:50.600 mean as part of their everyday life. So it was 0:16:50.640 --> 0:16:54.480 this extra burden on our students, and they had been 0:16:54.560 --> 0:16:57.120 organizing around this for quite some time. They had written 0:16:57.160 --> 0:17:02.480 a report that was all do you see us? So 0:17:02.720 --> 0:17:06.639 you see do you see us? In many ways, they 0:17:06.680 --> 0:17:10.840 were ready for an event like this. They were prepared. 0:17:10.920 --> 0:17:13.760 They had been doing a lot of organizing already, and 0:17:13.800 --> 0:17:18.200 so when this hit they they basically immediately went to 0:17:18.240 --> 0:17:21.359 the administration and said, you know, can you do something 0:17:21.359 --> 0:17:25.600 about this? The administration said, you know, it's free speech. 0:17:26.760 --> 0:17:31.040 They deployed that phrase when it's useful to them, but yeah, tactically, 0:17:31.560 --> 0:17:34.840 so that was the message they were putting out and 0:17:34.920 --> 0:17:39.480 it became it very quickly became a news item. So 0:17:39.920 --> 0:17:44.399 local outlets were reporting on it, and the response of 0:17:44.440 --> 0:17:49.639 the university was free speech, and it basically started escalating. 0:17:50.160 --> 0:17:52.879 There were a number of students on campus at the 0:17:52.960 --> 0:17:56.439 time will be still today but maybe a little bit quieter. 0:17:56.920 --> 0:18:01.439 We were fairly openly racist, and there was one group. 0:18:01.640 --> 0:18:06.119 They published a newspaper newsletter which was particularly so, and 0:18:06.160 --> 0:18:10.960 they also had a television show on It doesn't exist anymore. 0:18:11.080 --> 0:18:13.600 It's called the UCSD TV. It was kind of a 0:18:13.600 --> 0:18:19.960 local TV station. The company cookout party happened on Monday, 0:18:20.520 --> 0:18:23.520 and that was like a holiday in February. And then 0:18:24.320 --> 0:18:29.159 on Thursday of that week, the student group that I 0:18:29.280 --> 0:18:32.560 was talking about how a TV show and they started 0:18:32.640 --> 0:18:36.639 using the N word explicitly on that show, and a 0:18:36.720 --> 0:18:41.480 number of students saw that, and of course, we're completely outraged. 0:18:42.080 --> 0:18:45.119 And so the students in the Black Student Union and 0:18:45.240 --> 0:18:48.280 kind of their friends were basically trying to figure out 0:18:48.359 --> 0:18:51.840 what to do, and so they decided to call for 0:18:51.880 --> 0:18:54.920 a rally on the Library Walk, which is the main 0:18:55.000 --> 0:19:00.360 one of the main walkways and UCSD, and they called 0:19:00.400 --> 0:19:03.240 for a rally right in front of the where the 0:19:03.320 --> 0:19:06.359 Chancellor's office was located at the time, and so they 0:19:06.359 --> 0:19:10.760 had this rally quite a number of people. They called 0:19:10.760 --> 0:19:16.840 the rally Real Pain, Real Action. You know, they were saying, 0:19:17.280 --> 0:19:21.760 we were feeling real pain at these kind of racist incidents, 0:19:22.440 --> 0:19:26.080 and we want to see real action by the administration. 0:19:27.040 --> 0:19:31.240 So they had this rally and the chancellor at the time, 0:19:31.520 --> 0:19:36.639 who is Mary Anne Fox, came out to the rally 0:19:36.680 --> 0:19:42.160 and there's video of this somewhat pathetic video, and basically 0:19:42.200 --> 0:19:45.879 the organizers of the rally were like chanting leading the 0:19:46.080 --> 0:19:51.040 chance and then the Chancellor was basically following the organizers 0:19:51.040 --> 0:19:54.160 and trying to put her arm around them, as if 0:19:54.200 --> 0:19:59.400 somehow that would solve everything. You just need a hug. 0:20:00.160 --> 0:20:04.600 Then of course the organizers were like, no, not getting 0:20:04.640 --> 0:20:08.080 hear me. I don't want to hug, I want some action. Yeah, 0:20:08.359 --> 0:20:13.320 this kind of snowballed. The Chancellor basically then met with 0:20:13.440 --> 0:20:15.080 a bunch of these students who had been at a 0:20:15.160 --> 0:20:18.440 rally and kind of they had they had a list 0:20:18.480 --> 0:20:22.600 of like thirty demands, and she went through the list 0:20:21.800 --> 0:20:24.880 and it was just like there's video of this too, 0:20:24.960 --> 0:20:29.240 and it's it's almost I mean, I just feel because 0:20:29.280 --> 0:20:31.359 I knew like a bunch of these students that I 0:20:31.440 --> 0:20:35.080 was like, oh my god, you know how awful this 0:20:35.160 --> 0:20:37.280 must have fell to them. But she was going through 0:20:37.320 --> 0:20:42.359 this list very rationally and dispassionately and saying, oh, you know, 0:20:42.680 --> 0:20:47.080 we can't do that, sorry, but this one, yes, this 0:20:47.119 --> 0:20:51.080 one's done, This one's done. And the students were sitting 0:20:51.080 --> 0:20:54.480 there like, well, if it was done, you know, why 0:20:54.480 --> 0:20:56.840 haven't you done it? You know, if it's so easy 0:20:56.880 --> 0:21:01.880 to do. Yeah, And so a thing very definitely came 0:21:01.880 --> 0:21:06.640 out of that meeting. But the university decided to make 0:21:06.760 --> 0:21:10.399 a teaching the following Wednesday. And I mean, of course, 0:21:10.480 --> 0:21:15.000 teachings are not the things that people in power do, 0:21:15.400 --> 0:21:19.720 so they're obviously kind of co opting and appropriating that term. 0:21:20.080 --> 0:21:20.679 Yeah. 0:21:20.720 --> 0:21:24.080 So what the students decided to do because they were 0:21:24.240 --> 0:21:26.480 they knew that this was just going to be okay, 0:21:26.760 --> 0:21:32.120 we're going to try to bury this basically, yeah. Yeah, 0:21:32.160 --> 0:21:34.439 And so what the students did that they organized a 0:21:34.600 --> 0:21:37.920 press conference that morning, which a lot of press didn't 0:21:37.960 --> 0:21:41.719 come out to, and they had really powerful speakers, and 0:21:41.760 --> 0:21:44.360 this was before the teaching, and then they just went 0:21:44.400 --> 0:21:48.840 out of march. They marched around the Chancellor's complex, you know, 0:21:48.960 --> 0:21:53.919 continuously chanting up to the point of the teaching, and 0:21:54.000 --> 0:21:56.880 so then they all went into the teaching. They had 0:21:56.960 --> 0:22:00.920 like five hundred people by that time. Yeah, the room 0:22:00.960 --> 0:22:04.800 was just completely packed, and so they allowed the teaching 0:22:05.280 --> 0:22:10.600 to start. But then at some point one of the 0:22:10.640 --> 0:22:15.520 Black student Union members went up and said, we've had 0:22:15.640 --> 0:22:18.800 enough of this. We're now going to do our own 0:22:19.320 --> 0:22:23.479 teach out. So they marched out of the teaching and 0:22:23.640 --> 0:22:28.040 went around to this area that has these steps, and 0:22:28.200 --> 0:22:35.439 just you know, five hundred folks, incredible concentration of black 0:22:35.480 --> 0:22:41.200 folks and people of color, students and faculty and all 0:22:41.240 --> 0:22:44.040 of their allies all gathered together and they had to 0:22:44.080 --> 0:22:48.560 teach out, which was incredibly powerful. And that day I 0:22:48.720 --> 0:22:53.639 said it myself and for many other people that I 0:22:53.720 --> 0:22:56.280 knew at the university. We basically all said, this is 0:22:56.320 --> 0:23:00.439 the best day we've ever had at UCSD, so amazing. 0:23:01.560 --> 0:23:05.440 The next day, in the library, in the main library, 0:23:05.880 --> 0:23:09.080 one of the students who was who there found a 0:23:09.160 --> 0:23:13.720 newsing in the library. And of course, I'm sure your 0:23:13.760 --> 0:23:18.320 listeners know that the news is a very powerful symbol 0:23:18.600 --> 0:23:24.600 of violence against black folks in the US, and so 0:23:24.680 --> 0:23:28.439 that was that was traumatizing for so many students. I 0:23:28.520 --> 0:23:34.639 remember getting text messages from students, you know, saying, you know, 0:23:34.760 --> 0:23:37.280 I can't come on campus because I don't feel safe 0:23:37.320 --> 0:23:41.840 here anymore. Yeah. So the next morning, the students held 0:23:41.880 --> 0:23:44.520 a rally again in front of the Chancellor's office where 0:23:44.560 --> 0:23:49.240 they were probably I'm guessing close to one thousand people, 0:23:49.840 --> 0:23:53.320 and people just got up and were talking about what 0:23:53.400 --> 0:23:58.000 they were feeling in their analysis. The university came in. 0:23:58.960 --> 0:24:02.000 They sent like a spokesperson to say, oh, you know, 0:24:02.600 --> 0:24:08.159 we have the police out like looking for whoever hangs 0:24:08.240 --> 0:24:11.040 on the noose or whatever. And I mean, you know, 0:24:11.760 --> 0:24:14.080 the police are not a comfort. 0:24:14.760 --> 0:24:17.280 No one wanted to hear like we're sending the cops. 0:24:17.119 --> 0:24:22.479 At that moment. Yeah, yeah, exactly exactly. So the students 0:24:22.520 --> 0:24:26.200 then went in and they occupied the Chancellor's office for 0:24:26.480 --> 0:24:29.960 the full day and that really made people sit up 0:24:30.000 --> 0:24:34.320 a nose. And by this time there was international coverage 0:24:34.359 --> 0:24:37.800 of what was going on. There was an opening of 0:24:37.800 --> 0:24:41.760 the Civil Rights investigation on UCSD. I was getting emails 0:24:41.760 --> 0:24:45.520 from colleagues like in other countries saying, what's going on 0:24:45.960 --> 0:24:50.640 at is this? Like, you know, it sounds like a 0:24:50.720 --> 0:24:56.159 KKK rally or something not exactly that, but it's close. 0:24:56.440 --> 0:25:00.800 So then this all culminated about a week later in 0:25:00.840 --> 0:25:05.000 a huge rally where much of the library walk was 0:25:05.040 --> 0:25:09.760 completely packed filled with people. It was definitely blocked, and 0:25:10.680 --> 0:25:14.159 during that rally the university said, we will commit to 0:25:15.080 --> 0:25:19.399 implementing these demands, the demands of the students. Of course, 0:25:19.760 --> 0:25:22.359 in the end they'd backed off much of that, but 0:25:23.160 --> 0:25:25.760 so that was like a huge victory, and it did 0:25:25.880 --> 0:25:30.399 result in some pretty substantial changes to UCSD. I'll just 0:25:30.600 --> 0:25:36.480 mention a couple of them. So UCSD create a Black 0:25:36.560 --> 0:25:41.040 Resource Center which didn't exist before, a Roser Resource Center, 0:25:41.320 --> 0:25:46.280 and a inter Travel Resource Center, so those were, you know, 0:25:46.680 --> 0:25:54.200 significant victories. They also created a undergraduate requirement or requirement 0:25:54.240 --> 0:25:59.480 that undergraduates take a Diversity, Equity and Inclusion course, and 0:25:59.520 --> 0:26:03.440 that was an attempt to try to change the climate 0:26:03.920 --> 0:26:09.000 and do some educating. You know, students in California universities 0:26:09.040 --> 0:26:13.280 come from also to different backgrounds, and some of them 0:26:13.480 --> 0:26:19.080 are very aware of racism and its impacts and anti 0:26:19.119 --> 0:26:24.040 blackness and impacts that some come without that knowledge. So 0:26:24.119 --> 0:26:27.920 that was a significant help, but also at the time 0:26:28.520 --> 0:26:32.119 was boosted a little bit. It didn't end up maybe 0:26:32.160 --> 0:26:35.879 being such a great boost, but it didn't boost the 0:26:35.920 --> 0:26:39.359 departments that teach those kind of courses because now they had, 0:26:40.000 --> 0:26:44.720 you know, a significantly greater number of students and we're 0:26:44.720 --> 0:26:48.639 getting more resources as a result. So all those things 0:26:48.760 --> 0:26:55.080 were were good again, no arrests, no disciplinary actions, and 0:26:55.800 --> 0:26:59.200 the university learned some valuable lessons. 0:27:00.240 --> 0:27:03.760 Definitely, Let's take a little break and when we come back, 0:27:03.960 --> 0:27:06.520 I want to talk about this. This like Palestine exception 0:27:06.640 --> 0:27:20.760 to free speed. All right, we are back. Yeah, I 0:27:20.760 --> 0:27:24.280 remember that that Black Winter moment very well. I recently 0:27:24.359 --> 0:27:28.520 arrived at UCSD and I was immediately taken aback by 0:27:28.640 --> 0:27:31.879 the brazenness of the racism. It can of come from Britain, 0:27:31.920 --> 0:27:35.840 not a non racist country, but yeah, the openness and 0:27:36.200 --> 0:27:40.119 the cruelty and the delight that certain people took in 0:27:40.160 --> 0:27:45.480 that was pretty appalling. Now, if we skip forward thirteen 0:27:45.640 --> 0:27:49.280 years right to the beginning of the genocide and Gaza, 0:27:49.760 --> 0:27:52.160 a lot has changed on campus, but also a lot 0:27:52.200 --> 0:27:56.160 has not. Right, It's still not a massively diverse institution UCSD, 0:27:56.240 --> 0:28:00.480 even compared to other institutions in the city. But from 0:28:00.520 --> 0:28:02.639 twenty twenty three through twenty twenty four, right, we have 0:28:02.720 --> 0:28:06.200 this movement on campus to end the genocide, and Gaza 0:28:06.760 --> 0:28:08.680 comes a movement it's about more than that, right, about 0:28:08.720 --> 0:28:12.720 liberation for Palestinian people, and then broadly about like I guess, 0:28:12.880 --> 0:28:16.359 liberation in the region and what that means. And the 0:28:16.480 --> 0:28:19.360 university did not respond in the same way. This has 0:28:19.440 --> 0:28:24.359 led to people theorizing a Palestine exception for free speech. 0:28:24.400 --> 0:28:27.600 So could you explain that to people? And I thought 0:28:27.600 --> 0:28:29.800 you had a really interesting approach to it as a 0:28:29.840 --> 0:28:32.639 scientist that practice could share with people as well. 0:28:33.200 --> 0:28:36.120 Yeah, as you said, kind of in the wake of 0:28:36.400 --> 0:28:43.320 October seventh, that marked the beginning of Israel's genocide on Gaza. Obviously, 0:28:43.400 --> 0:28:48.720 it took many people quite a while to conclude it 0:28:48.720 --> 0:28:54.200 his genocide, but I remember it was almost maybe it 0:28:54.240 --> 0:28:58.480 was within a week or perhaps ten days of October seventh. 0:28:58.680 --> 0:29:02.800 The coal you know, Palestinian unions like put out a 0:29:02.880 --> 0:29:08.200 call for labor solidarity in which they turned to what 0:29:08.360 --> 0:29:10.920 was happening in jazz sign and there are also others 0:29:11.000 --> 0:29:13.360 who were who were doing that as well. 0:29:13.480 --> 0:29:17.040 Just personally, Like I was in Syria on seventh October, 0:29:17.480 --> 0:29:20.000 I think I entered that day. I spent some time 0:29:20.040 --> 0:29:22.400 in Kurdistan, and I remember by the time I was 0:29:22.480 --> 0:29:27.520 conducting interviews in southern Kurdistan, maybe a week later, maybe 0:29:27.520 --> 0:29:30.480 ten days later, Kurdish groups were using that phrase. Right, 0:29:30.800 --> 0:29:36.720 like there was a sense of like impending disaster that 0:29:36.840 --> 0:29:39.240 came very quickly. This is what will happen next, will 0:29:39.280 --> 0:29:42.360 be horrific. But yeah, those calls came very quickly, as 0:29:42.360 --> 0:29:42.960 you said. 0:29:43.000 --> 0:29:48.760 Yeah, And of course, like students and USSD were were 0:29:48.840 --> 0:29:53.120 kind of also coming to those conclusions. The administration was 0:29:54.080 --> 0:30:00.360 putting out language that was, you know, sympath that to 0:30:01.480 --> 0:30:06.560