1 00:00:03,000 --> 00:00:05,960 Speaker 1: From Bloomberg News and I Heart Radio. It's the big take. 2 00:00:09,600 --> 00:00:14,840 Speaker 1: I'm West Kasova. Today Amazon's big bed on football just 3 00:00:15,120 --> 00:00:28,880 Speaker 1: my payoff. The NFL announcing new eleven year media distribution 4 00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:32,120 Speaker 1: deals with all of US media partners. This collective deal 5 00:00:32,240 --> 00:00:34,839 Speaker 1: is worth more than one hundred billion dollars over the 6 00:00:34,880 --> 00:00:38,200 Speaker 1: next eleven years, with its media partners paying on average 7 00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:41,080 Speaker 1: about double what they paid before. The NFL announced a 8 00:00:41,080 --> 00:00:44,400 Speaker 1: new series of long term TV deals, including a historic 9 00:00:44,479 --> 00:00:48,479 Speaker 1: contract that gives Amazon exclusive rights to Thursday Football broadcast 10 00:00:48,560 --> 00:00:51,320 Speaker 1: you worship during the regular season is expected to be 11 00:00:51,479 --> 00:00:54,880 Speaker 1: down about three from a year ago. It's Amazon They're 12 00:00:54,920 --> 00:00:57,880 Speaker 1: being blamed for this drop, as Thursday Night Football moved 13 00:00:57,880 --> 00:01:01,560 Speaker 1: exclusively to Prime Video this season. Like you heard just there, 14 00:01:01,920 --> 00:01:06,160 Speaker 1: Amazon is paying billions of dollars to lure viewers away 15 00:01:06,200 --> 00:01:10,080 Speaker 1: from the TV networks and onto their prime streaming service, 16 00:01:10,480 --> 00:01:13,280 Speaker 1: And with the Super Bowl coming up fast, it seemed 17 00:01:13,280 --> 00:01:15,959 Speaker 1: like a good time to see how that deal is 18 00:01:16,040 --> 00:01:19,600 Speaker 1: panning out, because if it's a success, the way you 19 00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:22,760 Speaker 1: watch football and just about any other sport is going 20 00:01:22,840 --> 00:01:26,600 Speaker 1: to change dramatically, and maybe not in ways you like. 21 00:01:27,720 --> 00:01:30,040 Speaker 1: And speaking of big bets on sports, at the end 22 00:01:30,080 --> 00:01:33,880 Speaker 1: of this episode, I'll chat with Bloomberg Opinion editor Tim O'Brien. 23 00:01:33,959 --> 00:01:37,480 Speaker 1: He's the host of the new podcast Crash Course, and 24 00:01:37,520 --> 00:01:40,600 Speaker 1: he's launching a series of episodes digging into the booming 25 00:01:40,760 --> 00:01:45,360 Speaker 1: sports betting industry. But first, my colleagues Jerry Smith and 26 00:01:45,400 --> 00:01:48,680 Speaker 1: Felix Gillette. They've been covering the Amazon deal and all 27 00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:54,080 Speaker 1: its implications, and they join me now from New York. Jerry, 28 00:01:54,080 --> 00:01:57,040 Speaker 1: maybe i'll start with you. Amazon maybe a big bet 29 00:01:57,240 --> 00:02:01,360 Speaker 1: on the NFL last September. How's that working at Well, 30 00:02:01,400 --> 00:02:04,720 Speaker 1: they just completed their first regular season where Amazon had 31 00:02:04,760 --> 00:02:08,400 Speaker 1: the exclusive rights to Thursday Night Football, and the ratings, 32 00:02:08,760 --> 00:02:10,600 Speaker 1: you know, they were better than what a lot of 33 00:02:10,600 --> 00:02:13,480 Speaker 1: people expected, but they were a lot less than what 34 00:02:13,639 --> 00:02:17,000 Speaker 1: they did the year before on traditional TV. Everybody in 35 00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:20,799 Speaker 1: the sports media industry was watching this very closely because, 36 00:02:21,320 --> 00:02:24,200 Speaker 1: you know, this is really a new frontier. This is 37 00:02:24,240 --> 00:02:26,640 Speaker 1: the first time that you could watch America's most popular 38 00:02:26,680 --> 00:02:29,480 Speaker 1: sport only on a streaming service. And there were some 39 00:02:29,520 --> 00:02:32,680 Speaker 1: real challenges and real questions going into this one being 40 00:02:32,720 --> 00:02:35,680 Speaker 1: can Amazon pull this off? Just from a technical standpoint, 41 00:02:35,840 --> 00:02:38,880 Speaker 1: live streaming is very challenging. We've seen a lot of 42 00:02:38,880 --> 00:02:42,600 Speaker 1: streaming services broadcast sports and have glitches where the stream 43 00:02:42,639 --> 00:02:46,080 Speaker 1: would just completely crash and fans would miss a last 44 00:02:46,120 --> 00:02:49,560 Speaker 1: minute goal or touchdown. Amazon did not have any problems 45 00:02:49,560 --> 00:02:51,800 Speaker 1: this season. They did not have any reports of the 46 00:02:51,880 --> 00:02:55,040 Speaker 1: stream crashing or anything like that. So just on that level, 47 00:02:55,080 --> 00:02:59,520 Speaker 1: it's a success. From a viewership standpoint, this was about 48 00:02:59,520 --> 00:03:02,120 Speaker 1: a forty percent dropped from what it was the year before, 49 00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:05,679 Speaker 1: when it was on Fox, the NFL Network, and Amazon. 50 00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:08,359 Speaker 1: It was what's called a tri cast, where you could 51 00:03:08,360 --> 00:03:10,600 Speaker 1: watch the games on all three networks. This year you 52 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:13,280 Speaker 1: could only get it on Amazon. So there was a 53 00:03:13,280 --> 00:03:17,280 Speaker 1: real learning curve for people who have for years expected 54 00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:20,040 Speaker 1: to get NFL games on their TV. Now all of 55 00:03:20,080 --> 00:03:22,040 Speaker 1: a sudden, you've got to teach them. You've got to 56 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:24,839 Speaker 1: download Prime video, you've got to have a Prime subscription. 57 00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:27,560 Speaker 1: So there was real questions about how that would go. 58 00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:31,360 Speaker 1: And I think that Amazon overall is pretty pleased with 59 00:03:31,400 --> 00:03:33,720 Speaker 1: the numbers, but it was not as much as what 60 00:03:33,760 --> 00:03:36,360 Speaker 1: people were watching on on TV, and and that raises 61 00:03:36,400 --> 00:03:40,480 Speaker 1: some interesting questions as well. I mean, I suppose you 62 00:03:40,480 --> 00:03:42,600 Speaker 1: need to expect that, right, because if you don't have 63 00:03:42,640 --> 00:03:44,600 Speaker 1: a Prime account, which is now what a hundred and 64 00:03:44,640 --> 00:03:46,520 Speaker 1: thirty nine bucks a year. The chances are you're going 65 00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:48,640 Speaker 1: to pay that just to watch Thursday eight football is 66 00:03:48,640 --> 00:03:52,200 Speaker 1: pretty low, So Amazon kind of thinks that's gonna creep up. 67 00:03:52,600 --> 00:03:55,320 Speaker 1: Do you think that that's likely to happen? Yeah, I mean, 68 00:03:55,400 --> 00:03:57,240 Speaker 1: you know, they say that there's about eighty million people 69 00:03:57,280 --> 00:03:59,920 Speaker 1: who watch Prime Video, which is about the same as 70 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:02,400 Speaker 1: the number of people who are watching cable TV, in 71 00:04:02,440 --> 00:04:04,640 Speaker 1: fact a little bit more. A lot of these people 72 00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:07,520 Speaker 1: had to be trained to go to Amazon Prime Video 73 00:04:07,560 --> 00:04:10,240 Speaker 1: to watch the games. I know that when I was 74 00:04:10,280 --> 00:04:13,120 Speaker 1: getting Amazon Prime boxes delivered to my home, they were 75 00:04:13,200 --> 00:04:16,719 Speaker 1: advertising Thursday night football, and the top of the Amazon 76 00:04:16,760 --> 00:04:19,600 Speaker 1: dot com home page had banner saying, you know, our 77 00:04:19,640 --> 00:04:22,320 Speaker 1: first regular season games on Prime Video. Here's how to 78 00:04:22,400 --> 00:04:24,920 Speaker 1: get it. It's a little bit challenging as a fan. 79 00:04:25,240 --> 00:04:28,160 Speaker 1: You suddenly now if you want to flip between the 80 00:04:28,200 --> 00:04:31,200 Speaker 1: game and something else, you now have to leave the app, 81 00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:33,800 Speaker 1: go to your cable system, flip the channel, and go 82 00:04:33,880 --> 00:04:36,599 Speaker 1: back and forth. It's not a seamless experience like it 83 00:04:36,680 --> 00:04:40,760 Speaker 1: is if you're just watching on TV. But overall, Amazon 84 00:04:40,880 --> 00:04:43,440 Speaker 1: said that that first game was they saw a huge 85 00:04:43,480 --> 00:04:46,760 Speaker 1: increase in Prime subscriptions. So just on that level, I 86 00:04:46,800 --> 00:04:49,359 Speaker 1: think that they're pretty happy about how things went. And 87 00:04:49,400 --> 00:04:53,039 Speaker 1: I think also from Amazon's perspective, they have a different 88 00:04:53,279 --> 00:04:56,360 Speaker 1: business model than the TV network, So it's not, you know, 89 00:04:56,520 --> 00:04:59,919 Speaker 1: just about getting the audience there and serving them advertise. 90 00:05:00,520 --> 00:05:04,320 Speaker 1: It's just bringing them into the ecosystem where you can 91 00:05:04,360 --> 00:05:09,640 Speaker 1: then sell Prime subscriptions, you can hit advertisements, you can 92 00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:14,760 Speaker 1: get merchandise. There's just in terms of delivering time on 93 00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:18,040 Speaker 1: the app, I'd say it's a win for Amazon overall. 94 00:05:18,520 --> 00:05:22,160 Speaker 1: The technology standpoint, I actually thought it was pretty easy 95 00:05:22,240 --> 00:05:24,400 Speaker 1: if you were using on a mobile device. I was 96 00:05:24,480 --> 00:05:27,279 Speaker 1: just like wandering in the house with my phone and 97 00:05:27,360 --> 00:05:29,440 Speaker 1: you know, you could open up the Prime app or 98 00:05:29,600 --> 00:05:32,960 Speaker 1: the Amazon Shopping app. They always had it advertised prominently 99 00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:37,000 Speaker 1: on their one click and you're right in. So I 100 00:05:37,040 --> 00:05:39,159 Speaker 1: think for the first season, I think they probably have 101 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:41,440 Speaker 1: to be pretty pleased with how it went. Yeah, I 102 00:05:41,480 --> 00:05:43,480 Speaker 1: should mention they also had a lot of help. They've 103 00:05:43,520 --> 00:05:47,320 Speaker 1: got a legendary NBC sports producer, Fred Gidilli, to be 104 00:05:47,400 --> 00:05:50,279 Speaker 1: the producer for these games, so they had NBC essentially 105 00:05:50,320 --> 00:05:53,080 Speaker 1: doing the production for them. So if you watch there's 106 00:05:53,080 --> 00:05:55,280 Speaker 1: a night Football on Amazon it looked a lot like 107 00:05:55,520 --> 00:05:58,400 Speaker 1: NBC Sunday night football games. But the point you made 108 00:05:58,440 --> 00:06:01,360 Speaker 1: before about how m ZON has a different business model, 109 00:06:01,360 --> 00:06:03,520 Speaker 1: I mean, I think that's what's really fascinating and a 110 00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:06,960 Speaker 1: little scary for the CBS s and the NBCs and 111 00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:09,279 Speaker 1: Foxes of the world, as all of a sudden, they're 112 00:06:09,320 --> 00:06:14,000 Speaker 1: now competing for sports rights with these massive tech companies 113 00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:18,719 Speaker 1: who have incredibly deep pockets and also have different business objectives. 114 00:06:18,920 --> 00:06:21,560 Speaker 1: Apple is another company that we've seen get into sports. 115 00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:24,520 Speaker 1: They are about to start a Major League Soccer package 116 00:06:24,600 --> 00:06:26,920 Speaker 1: that they won the rights for, and they had Major 117 00:06:26,960 --> 00:06:29,400 Speaker 1: League Baseball games last year, And all of a sudden, 118 00:06:29,440 --> 00:06:31,640 Speaker 1: you've got a company like Apple. You know, a win 119 00:06:31,760 --> 00:06:34,920 Speaker 1: for them could be you buy more Apple devices. They 120 00:06:34,920 --> 00:06:38,039 Speaker 1: want to draw subscriptions to Apple TV plus uh, they 121 00:06:38,120 --> 00:06:42,000 Speaker 1: want to sell advertising. Amazon they want to sell prime subscriptions. 122 00:06:42,040 --> 00:06:45,200 Speaker 1: They want to sell advertising. It's just a different business 123 00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:48,880 Speaker 1: than you know, ESPN, for instance, which really is trying 124 00:06:48,880 --> 00:06:51,520 Speaker 1: to make up the cost of these very very expensive 125 00:06:51,520 --> 00:06:55,599 Speaker 1: sports rights deals with a combination of just advertising and 126 00:06:55,720 --> 00:06:58,760 Speaker 1: cable TV subscription fees. I want to talk just a 127 00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:02,039 Speaker 1: little bit more about that because one of the things 128 00:07:02,120 --> 00:07:06,600 Speaker 1: you have written Jerry, is that the networks are having 129 00:07:06,760 --> 00:07:09,880 Speaker 1: trouble paying for Thursday Night Football because the league would 130 00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:12,520 Speaker 1: kind of give them the less interesting games and there 131 00:07:12,560 --> 00:07:15,840 Speaker 1: wasn't a lot of advertising revenue or there wasn't enough. 132 00:07:16,040 --> 00:07:18,560 Speaker 1: Whereas Amazon, once you're in their ecosystem, man, they're gonna 133 00:07:18,560 --> 00:07:20,200 Speaker 1: push you every product under the sun, and it's like 134 00:07:20,320 --> 00:07:22,120 Speaker 1: right in front of your eyes. So they could see 135 00:07:22,120 --> 00:07:24,400 Speaker 1: a way of doing it without having to get advertising. 136 00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:28,200 Speaker 1: That's right. I mean this Thursday Night Football just historically, 137 00:07:29,040 --> 00:07:31,920 Speaker 1: all the big networks, Fox, CBS, NBC, they all had 138 00:07:32,440 --> 00:07:35,320 Speaker 1: broadcast these games at some point and they all walked 139 00:07:35,320 --> 00:07:37,800 Speaker 1: away from it because they were losing money and the 140 00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:40,040 Speaker 1: amount of money they were spending was they just couldn't 141 00:07:40,040 --> 00:07:42,560 Speaker 1: make it up on the viewership and the advertising. And 142 00:07:42,680 --> 00:07:45,640 Speaker 1: another thing that's really important to think about with Amazon 143 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:48,360 Speaker 1: is the NFL is obviously the biggest entertainment property and 144 00:07:48,440 --> 00:07:50,920 Speaker 1: all of TV, but they also want to get other rights. 145 00:07:51,240 --> 00:07:54,760 Speaker 1: The NBA is a really big deal coming up, and 146 00:07:55,160 --> 00:07:57,360 Speaker 1: if you're the n b A, you're really looking at 147 00:07:57,360 --> 00:08:00,520 Speaker 1: what the NFL has done here where they've old long 148 00:08:00,640 --> 00:08:03,280 Speaker 1: term rights to all the big broadcasters. They've also carved 149 00:08:03,280 --> 00:08:06,880 Speaker 1: out a package for Amazon. NBA is thinking about, all right, well, 150 00:08:06,920 --> 00:08:09,160 Speaker 1: are we going to renew our deal with ESPN and 151 00:08:09,320 --> 00:08:12,320 Speaker 1: T n T and maybe we carve out some games 152 00:08:12,360 --> 00:08:15,440 Speaker 1: for Amazon or Apple as well. The NBA, I think, 153 00:08:15,480 --> 00:08:17,880 Speaker 1: was looking really closely at what Amazon did with this 154 00:08:18,040 --> 00:08:21,000 Speaker 1: NFL season, how many viewers they got, because I think 155 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:23,000 Speaker 1: they are trying to replicate what the NFL is going 156 00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:25,280 Speaker 1: to do and potentially carve out some games for a 157 00:08:25,320 --> 00:08:28,240 Speaker 1: tech company. And also Jerry, I think was fascinating to 158 00:08:28,240 --> 00:08:31,360 Speaker 1: watch this. At the same time that Amazon is, you know, 159 00:08:31,440 --> 00:08:33,320 Speaker 1: making this long term deal and paying a bunch of 160 00:08:33,320 --> 00:08:35,840 Speaker 1: money for the NFL thres and that rights, they're also 161 00:08:35,920 --> 00:08:40,240 Speaker 1: making other bets in this TV streaming ecosystem. They had 162 00:08:40,280 --> 00:08:43,400 Speaker 1: a huge bet this fall with the Lord of the 163 00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:47,439 Speaker 1: Rings prequel, The Rings of Power, and you know, I 164 00:08:47,520 --> 00:08:50,600 Speaker 1: think this is the most expensive scripted TV show ever made, 165 00:08:50,679 --> 00:08:52,880 Speaker 1: ultimately going to be more than billion dollars, And it's 166 00:08:52,920 --> 00:08:56,440 Speaker 1: interesting to think through, like from their perspective, those two bets, 167 00:08:56,760 --> 00:09:00,840 Speaker 1: one on scripted television, one on live warts, what do 168 00:09:00,840 --> 00:09:03,040 Speaker 1: you get more out of? And I would say, when 169 00:09:03,040 --> 00:09:05,920 Speaker 1: you think about the risk reward of those dollars they 170 00:09:05,960 --> 00:09:09,199 Speaker 1: spent The thing that's great about the NFL is even 171 00:09:09,240 --> 00:09:12,320 Speaker 1: in those kind of crappy Thursday night games, like you're 172 00:09:12,360 --> 00:09:15,320 Speaker 1: just guaranteed an audience is going to show up right, 173 00:09:15,720 --> 00:09:19,040 Speaker 1: And a scripted show, you know, even something as big 174 00:09:19,080 --> 00:09:21,680 Speaker 1: as Lord of the Rings, you really don't know ahead 175 00:09:21,679 --> 00:09:23,960 Speaker 1: of time is it gonna work? Is it not gonna work? 176 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:28,640 Speaker 1: You're competing with endless choices in scripted drama. You know, 177 00:09:28,720 --> 00:09:31,839 Speaker 1: there's just one NFL, There's one game on Thursday night. 178 00:09:31,880 --> 00:09:35,200 Speaker 1: They're gonna come at an exact time and place, and 179 00:09:35,240 --> 00:09:37,320 Speaker 1: you know the audience is going to be there. And 180 00:09:37,360 --> 00:09:41,760 Speaker 1: I just think that has huge value. And Amazon proving 181 00:09:41,800 --> 00:09:46,320 Speaker 1: that they can put these games on without any technological hitches, 182 00:09:46,360 --> 00:09:49,760 Speaker 1: to me, that just sends a big sign you're going 183 00:09:49,840 --> 00:09:52,840 Speaker 1: to see more of this. Felix. The last time you 184 00:09:52,840 --> 00:09:55,040 Speaker 1: were on this show, we were talking about how frustrating 185 00:09:55,080 --> 00:09:57,680 Speaker 1: it can be for the viewers though, when they have 186 00:09:57,760 --> 00:10:00,960 Speaker 1: to remember where all their favorite shows are on all 187 00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:04,000 Speaker 1: these different platforms. Do you think that people are gonna 188 00:10:04,040 --> 00:10:07,640 Speaker 1: want to have all of their sports viewing atomized across 189 00:10:07,679 --> 00:10:11,200 Speaker 1: platforms where they have to have individual subscriptions and passwords 190 00:10:11,240 --> 00:10:13,160 Speaker 1: and user names and all that kind of stuff that 191 00:10:13,360 --> 00:10:16,920 Speaker 1: drives us crazy. Now, I don't think from a viewer's perspective, 192 00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:20,000 Speaker 1: I think the ideal scenario would be to have one 193 00:10:20,040 --> 00:10:22,920 Speaker 1: big bundle where everything is available, almost like it was 194 00:10:23,559 --> 00:10:27,200 Speaker 1: in the previous era of cable and satellite. But now 195 00:10:27,360 --> 00:10:29,679 Speaker 1: you know, like it or not, this whole thing has 196 00:10:29,720 --> 00:10:32,760 Speaker 1: been splintered, and you do you kind of have to 197 00:10:32,800 --> 00:10:35,120 Speaker 1: keep it a little chart of which service you're going 198 00:10:35,200 --> 00:10:37,600 Speaker 1: too for each game of the week, and I think 199 00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:40,920 Speaker 1: that's inevitable in this stage where we're kind of in 200 00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:45,440 Speaker 1: between these two eras, the satellite and TV satellite cable 201 00:10:45,480 --> 00:10:48,000 Speaker 1: era that's kind of dimming, and then this new streaming era. 202 00:10:48,440 --> 00:10:50,200 Speaker 1: I think for the time being, you're going to see 203 00:10:50,200 --> 00:10:54,600 Speaker 1: it even more splintered. From the fans perspective, I think, 204 00:10:54,800 --> 00:10:59,199 Speaker 1: you know, if there's any consolation, it's probably this will 205 00:10:59,240 --> 00:11:02,800 Speaker 1: be the peaks blinter era, and I think five ten 206 00:11:02,880 --> 00:11:05,160 Speaker 1: years down the road, you're going to see more consolidation 207 00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:07,960 Speaker 1: of these services and you'll see more of these games 208 00:11:08,480 --> 00:11:11,800 Speaker 1: ending up on one, two or three platforms. Yeah. Well, 209 00:11:11,840 --> 00:11:13,600 Speaker 1: if you look at what the leagues have done is 210 00:11:13,679 --> 00:11:17,680 Speaker 1: they're trying to balance two things. They obviously want to 211 00:11:17,840 --> 00:11:20,040 Speaker 1: have lots of bidders. They want to get as much 212 00:11:20,080 --> 00:11:22,280 Speaker 1: money as they can, but one of the things they're 213 00:11:22,280 --> 00:11:25,280 Speaker 1: most concerned about is reach, and they're afraid that if 214 00:11:25,320 --> 00:11:29,600 Speaker 1: they go exclusively on a streaming service that they're going 215 00:11:29,679 --> 00:11:32,719 Speaker 1: to lose the reach that they got on broadcast television. 216 00:11:33,080 --> 00:11:35,840 Speaker 1: So what we saw with the NFL is they extended 217 00:11:35,840 --> 00:11:38,640 Speaker 1: their long term deals with the NBCs and Foxes of 218 00:11:38,679 --> 00:11:40,360 Speaker 1: the world. So you still need to get to pay 219 00:11:40,440 --> 00:11:42,360 Speaker 1: TV unless you have Rabbity ears, you still got to 220 00:11:42,400 --> 00:11:45,199 Speaker 1: get pay TV to watch the NFL, and then you've 221 00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:48,720 Speaker 1: also got to have Amazon Prime Video. With baseball, I mean, 222 00:11:48,760 --> 00:11:50,959 Speaker 1: it was the same thing this baseball season. There were 223 00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:53,640 Speaker 1: a lot of fans who were frustrated because the league 224 00:11:53,640 --> 00:11:56,560 Speaker 1: had carved up these little packages of rights where Apple 225 00:11:56,679 --> 00:11:59,920 Speaker 1: had some games on Friday nights, Peacock NBC streaming sir 226 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:02,760 Speaker 1: this has had a few games on Sunday mornings, and 227 00:12:02,800 --> 00:12:06,080 Speaker 1: so instead of just you know, here's the entire season 228 00:12:06,120 --> 00:12:08,960 Speaker 1: on Amazon Prime Video on Thursdays, you really had to 229 00:12:09,080 --> 00:12:11,920 Speaker 1: like go onto the website for your favorite team and 230 00:12:11,960 --> 00:12:14,000 Speaker 1: look at where all right, where is it broadcasting? Now? 231 00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:16,600 Speaker 1: Which streaming service do I need? Like, do I need 232 00:12:16,640 --> 00:12:19,720 Speaker 1: to pay for this, so it's getting very complicated. I mean, 233 00:12:19,760 --> 00:12:22,240 Speaker 1: another thing to think about what the league's is. We've 234 00:12:22,280 --> 00:12:25,640 Speaker 1: seen some other really big sports rights deals where Amazon 235 00:12:25,760 --> 00:12:29,640 Speaker 1: came in and actually made a larger bid than broadcast 236 00:12:29,679 --> 00:12:33,040 Speaker 1: channels like NBC, and the rights actually went to NBC 237 00:12:33,240 --> 00:12:36,160 Speaker 1: and Fox and CBS. One example is the Big Ten. 238 00:12:36,679 --> 00:12:38,640 Speaker 1: Amazon did not get the rights to the Big Ten, 239 00:12:38,720 --> 00:12:41,560 Speaker 1: even though I've heard that they made a significantly larger 240 00:12:41,600 --> 00:12:43,440 Speaker 1: bid than some of the networks that ended up getting 241 00:12:43,480 --> 00:12:46,640 Speaker 1: those rights. We've seen other streaming services come in and 242 00:12:46,920 --> 00:12:49,360 Speaker 1: actually outbid the broadcasters. And the point is is that 243 00:12:49,440 --> 00:12:52,520 Speaker 1: these sports leagues, as much as they love the idea 244 00:12:52,559 --> 00:12:55,120 Speaker 1: of having a big, depocketed tech company come in and 245 00:12:55,240 --> 00:12:58,120 Speaker 1: throw a big check at them, they are very concerned 246 00:12:58,120 --> 00:13:01,280 Speaker 1: about the fact these streaming services don't have the tens 247 00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:04,160 Speaker 1: of millions of subscribers in some cases that you still 248 00:13:04,200 --> 00:13:08,920 Speaker 1: do on TV. Felix and Jerry, please stick around. We'll 249 00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:20,440 Speaker 1: keep talking after the break. Felix. Right before the break, 250 00:13:20,520 --> 00:13:23,440 Speaker 1: Jerry was talking about something interesting, this tension between the 251 00:13:23,520 --> 00:13:25,400 Speaker 1: leagues where they want to make a lot of money 252 00:13:25,400 --> 00:13:29,319 Speaker 1: off these games, but they also want to have influence 253 00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:33,000 Speaker 1: and reach and be relevant and that the streaming services 254 00:13:33,080 --> 00:13:36,640 Speaker 1: don't yet have that same sort of reach. Did Amazon 255 00:13:36,760 --> 00:13:41,839 Speaker 1: have to really persuade NFL to give them this deal. 256 00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:46,800 Speaker 1: Streaming services offer something that the NFL needs, which is 257 00:13:47,320 --> 00:13:50,760 Speaker 1: a little bit of relief from the growing anxiety that 258 00:13:50,880 --> 00:13:54,480 Speaker 1: everyone has that's in cable and broadcast television. The whole 259 00:13:55,160 --> 00:13:59,040 Speaker 1: audience level is sinking, and everybody is concerned about the future. 260 00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:03,319 Speaker 1: Everyone's concerned about getting young viewers, getting the next generation. 261 00:14:03,559 --> 00:14:05,720 Speaker 1: How are we gonna prove that this thing is going 262 00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:08,680 Speaker 1: to keep going stronger and stronger five ten years out. 263 00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:11,960 Speaker 1: And I think one way of doing that is doing 264 00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:16,960 Speaker 1: these piecemeal deals with the streaming services. And you know, 265 00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:20,040 Speaker 1: it happens to be a moment in the evolution of 266 00:14:20,040 --> 00:14:25,400 Speaker 1: the technology where you know, luckily for the NFL, there's 267 00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:29,080 Speaker 1: someone who can basically overpay for this small piece of 268 00:14:29,240 --> 00:14:32,800 Speaker 1: rights as a loss leader in order to get people 269 00:14:32,800 --> 00:14:35,480 Speaker 1: to come into these services. And I think, you know, 270 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:39,400 Speaker 1: right now is an incredible time for the sports leagues 271 00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:43,000 Speaker 1: and anyone with any live TV rights to sell them 272 00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:46,520 Speaker 1: for more than their worth to attach platform because all 273 00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:49,440 Speaker 1: of these platforms right now and streaming are going through 274 00:14:49,440 --> 00:14:56,000 Speaker 1: this evolution of their own where for the past fifteen years. Essentially, 275 00:14:56,000 --> 00:14:58,560 Speaker 1: when you look at the evolution of Netflix, Netflix started 276 00:14:58,560 --> 00:15:02,840 Speaker 1: off as an ad free service, right and Read Hastings, 277 00:15:02,880 --> 00:15:05,680 Speaker 1: the founder of Netflix, was always very adamant, We're not 278 00:15:05,720 --> 00:15:08,080 Speaker 1: going to put ads on here. People don't like when 279 00:15:08,080 --> 00:15:11,440 Speaker 1: they're viewing is interrupted. We're commercial free service. That's never 280 00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:14,200 Speaker 1: going to change. Well, it did change right this year. 281 00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:17,520 Speaker 1: They finally said, you know that Wall Street was losing 282 00:15:17,560 --> 00:15:20,000 Speaker 1: patience with some of these streaming services, that we're losing 283 00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:22,360 Speaker 1: a lot of money. Said okay, it's time for you 284 00:15:22,440 --> 00:15:25,880 Speaker 1: to start making profits. And probably the best way to 285 00:15:25,920 --> 00:15:30,280 Speaker 1: start making additional revenue sources is to bring an advertising, 286 00:15:30,400 --> 00:15:34,680 Speaker 1: which Netflix has done, Disney is doing, Warner Brothers, Discovery, 287 00:15:34,680 --> 00:15:37,560 Speaker 1: all the major streaming platforms are now saying we're gonna 288 00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:40,880 Speaker 1: have to bring an advertising and to do that you 289 00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:44,720 Speaker 1: really need live programming because so many advertisers want a 290 00:15:44,760 --> 00:15:48,960 Speaker 1: commercial message delivered to an audience at a particular time, 291 00:15:49,480 --> 00:15:51,800 Speaker 1: and you know, with a lot of on demand programming, 292 00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:54,800 Speaker 1: it's harder to guarantee that you can get the right 293 00:15:54,840 --> 00:15:57,440 Speaker 1: demographic in front of that screen at the right time. 294 00:15:57,760 --> 00:16:01,000 Speaker 1: The best way to do that, by far is live programming, 295 00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:03,720 Speaker 1: and the best way within live programming is the NFL. 296 00:16:03,920 --> 00:16:06,600 Speaker 1: But there's a whole hierarchy and you go down from 297 00:16:06,600 --> 00:16:10,440 Speaker 1: the NFL and then you get to other sports, other 298 00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:14,280 Speaker 1: live performances. That's why you see Netflix now doing a 299 00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:17,840 Speaker 1: Chris Rock live comedy performance. They just picked up the 300 00:16:17,920 --> 00:16:21,480 Speaker 1: rights for a live award show. They're all dabbling in 301 00:16:21,560 --> 00:16:24,640 Speaker 1: it because they need this to grow their advertising business, 302 00:16:24,960 --> 00:16:27,720 Speaker 1: which is another reason that you can just see this 303 00:16:27,800 --> 00:16:30,960 Speaker 1: is all going to grow and grow, That's right. I 304 00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:33,080 Speaker 1: Mean one thing to think about. I think there's real 305 00:16:33,160 --> 00:16:38,600 Speaker 1: questions longer term about the young demographic, the teenagers, fans 306 00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:41,520 Speaker 1: in their twenties and thirties, and how they're consuming sports, 307 00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:44,280 Speaker 1: if they're consuming sports at all. Amazon I mean, one 308 00:16:44,320 --> 00:16:46,720 Speaker 1: of the things that they were particularly proud of with 309 00:16:46,800 --> 00:16:50,640 Speaker 1: this season of Thursday Night Football that they exclusively streamed 310 00:16:50,680 --> 00:16:52,560 Speaker 1: was that they had a younger audience than what was 311 00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:55,440 Speaker 1: on TV, but it was still a fairly older audience. 312 00:16:55,480 --> 00:16:57,560 Speaker 1: I mean, we're not talking about an average age of 313 00:16:57,560 --> 00:17:00,000 Speaker 1: twenty five. I mean, these are still middle aged people 314 00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:02,720 Speaker 1: watching on Amazon Prime Video. I Mean, one thing that 315 00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:04,960 Speaker 1: Amazon did that didn't get a lot of attention, they 316 00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:08,320 Speaker 1: had an alternate stream, which is becoming very popular now 317 00:17:08,359 --> 00:17:11,600 Speaker 1: in sports media where you have essentially a separate group 318 00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:17,080 Speaker 1: of broadcast announcers. So they had these guys do perfect is, 319 00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:25,119 Speaker 1: come on in, coach, come on in. They essentially do 320 00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:28,199 Speaker 1: like sports trick shots. And they're huge on YouTube. A 321 00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:30,200 Speaker 1: lot of people and may not have heard of them, 322 00:17:30,200 --> 00:17:32,439 Speaker 1: but they're very big on YouTube. And they did an 323 00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:35,680 Speaker 1: alternate broadcast of the Thursday Night Football and I think 324 00:17:35,720 --> 00:17:39,080 Speaker 1: that was an acknowledgement by Amazon that, you know, we 325 00:17:39,160 --> 00:17:42,320 Speaker 1: also need to start reaching out and finding new and 326 00:17:42,359 --> 00:17:46,560 Speaker 1: interesting ways to make live sports appeal to the younger audience, 327 00:17:46,600 --> 00:17:49,280 Speaker 1: which is really what the advertisers will pay more for. 328 00:17:49,920 --> 00:17:53,080 Speaker 1: But you know, I think if you ask any nineteen 329 00:17:53,880 --> 00:17:57,080 Speaker 1: year old how are you consuming sports? They're probably watching 330 00:17:57,359 --> 00:18:01,600 Speaker 1: highlights on Instagram or TikTok or Twitter. Are they watching 331 00:18:01,640 --> 00:18:04,000 Speaker 1: the live game? Are they watching a four hour baseball 332 00:18:04,040 --> 00:18:07,080 Speaker 1: game with their parents on the couch. Probably not. So 333 00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:10,680 Speaker 1: I think longer term, all of these broadcasters, whether it's 334 00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:14,719 Speaker 1: Amazon or the traditional TV networks and the league's, how 335 00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:17,280 Speaker 1: are we going to appeal to people who just don't 336 00:18:17,320 --> 00:18:22,199 Speaker 1: watch TV the way that previous generations did. Felix I 337 00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:25,640 Speaker 1: guess one of the reasons why sports are so lucrative 338 00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:28,240 Speaker 1: and they're able to get these big advertising dollars is 339 00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:30,080 Speaker 1: that if you just look at, like, I don't know, 340 00:18:30,119 --> 00:18:33,960 Speaker 1: the top ten shows by audience for a year, a 341 00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:36,640 Speaker 1: lot of them are sports. Is that right? Yeah. One 342 00:18:36,680 --> 00:18:40,120 Speaker 1: of the most dramatic statistics I saw was an article 343 00:18:40,359 --> 00:18:46,400 Speaker 1: from Sportco recently that looked at the top one telecasts 344 00:18:46,440 --> 00:18:50,280 Speaker 1: in the United States in two thousand twenty two e 345 00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:53,959 Speaker 1: d two of the top hundred were NFL games, and 346 00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:56,080 Speaker 1: then you go down the list and it was like 347 00:18:56,160 --> 00:18:59,360 Speaker 1: Kentucky Derby, there was a couple of NBA playoff games, 348 00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:03,640 Speaker 1: that was the World Cup games. It was basically all sports. 349 00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:07,560 Speaker 1: Um and it's the one thing that's really held onto 350 00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:15,040 Speaker 1: an audience in this broadcast cable ecosystem where you know, 351 00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:19,520 Speaker 1: not too long ago, scripted dramas like The Walking Dead 352 00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:22,919 Speaker 1: on AMC we're drawing huge audiences. People were still showing 353 00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:24,760 Speaker 1: up and like, you know, want to watch their our 354 00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:29,399 Speaker 1: drama that has just collapsed. It's just cratering and that 355 00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:33,959 Speaker 1: audience it's disappearing, it's not coming back, And you know, 356 00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:38,640 Speaker 1: all of these giant media companies are really dependent on 357 00:19:39,160 --> 00:19:44,679 Speaker 1: the prior existing ecosystem to feed them revenue and profits, 358 00:19:45,040 --> 00:19:47,080 Speaker 1: and they need to hold on to whatever is there 359 00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:51,080 Speaker 1: in order to fuel their growth in their investments and streaming. 360 00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:54,399 Speaker 1: That puts, you know, these audiences for these live events. 361 00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:58,640 Speaker 1: It makes it even that much more important because everything 362 00:19:58,640 --> 00:20:01,360 Speaker 1: else has just fallen away. Yeah, that's right. I mean, 363 00:20:01,640 --> 00:20:05,720 Speaker 1: if you think about all the scripted dramas, the reality shows, 364 00:20:05,840 --> 00:20:08,400 Speaker 1: they've all for the most part, I mean, they're moving 365 00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:11,200 Speaker 1: increasingly to streaming. So it's it's not so much that 366 00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:14,200 Speaker 1: live sports viewership is like going through the roof. It's 367 00:20:14,600 --> 00:20:17,840 Speaker 1: fairly flat. It's just that everything else in the TV 368 00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:21,439 Speaker 1: landscape has really declined because people expect to get it 369 00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:33,560 Speaker 1: on their streaming service. We'll be right back. So if 370 00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:37,359 Speaker 1: you're the NFL, you're in this enviable position. You're on 371 00:20:37,359 --> 00:20:40,160 Speaker 1: the networks and advertisers are willing to pay top dollar 372 00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:43,600 Speaker 1: for this huge audience. Or you say, the streaming services, 373 00:20:44,040 --> 00:20:46,280 Speaker 1: well you can't deliver us a big audience, so you 374 00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:49,040 Speaker 1: have to pay top dollar and either way, the NFL 375 00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:53,280 Speaker 1: gets paid. Do you think that this calculation is just 376 00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:56,520 Speaker 1: going to start to move from we want relevance to 377 00:20:56,720 --> 00:20:59,760 Speaker 1: we just want the highest bidder. I think it's some 378 00:20:59,840 --> 00:21:03,320 Speaker 1: point there'll be a convergence of those two things. I 379 00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:06,040 Speaker 1: think if you just look at the trend lines, the 380 00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:11,600 Speaker 1: percentage of overall viewing that's taking place in the old 381 00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:14,960 Speaker 1: world of broadcast and cable television versus like the new 382 00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:18,760 Speaker 1: world of streaming. Every year it just tilts a little 383 00:21:18,760 --> 00:21:22,600 Speaker 1: bit further and further and further towards streaming. So eventually 384 00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:26,400 Speaker 1: there will come a point at which the streaming audiences 385 00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:31,920 Speaker 1: will be developing. Not just the buzz of a younger audience, 386 00:21:32,040 --> 00:21:34,920 Speaker 1: not just the buzz of a new ecosystem, not just 387 00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:39,000 Speaker 1: you know, the ability to overpay for these live TV 388 00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:42,920 Speaker 1: rights as a loss leader to get people into their platforms, 389 00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:45,240 Speaker 1: but at some point they're also going to have the 390 00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:48,520 Speaker 1: biggest audiences and the most viewers, and then the advertising 391 00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:51,840 Speaker 1: will also follow over there is that a year from now, 392 00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:53,800 Speaker 1: five years from now, ten years from now. I think 393 00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:56,640 Speaker 1: that's the question that everyone's looking at, is at what 394 00:21:56,800 --> 00:22:01,880 Speaker 1: rate will this all continue to migrate? Jerry, Live sports 395 00:22:01,880 --> 00:22:06,280 Speaker 1: can be a giant money printing machine, but not everyone 396 00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:10,000 Speaker 1: is getting rich. You recently wrote about Diamonds Sports Group, 397 00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:13,480 Speaker 1: which is the largest owner of local sports channels and 398 00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:18,040 Speaker 1: they've been having a tough time. What is happening. Diamond Sports. 399 00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:20,360 Speaker 1: It's a company that's owned by Sinclair, and a few 400 00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:24,479 Speaker 1: years ago, Sinclair bought about twenty of these regional sports 401 00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:29,119 Speaker 1: channels from Disney. So Sinclair really bought these channels at 402 00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:32,199 Speaker 1: a really bad time. This was when cord cutting was 403 00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:34,879 Speaker 1: really starting to accelerate. Just to step back a little, 404 00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:39,000 Speaker 1: these are local sports channels in dozens of markets across 405 00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:40,960 Speaker 1: the country. If you live in Cleveland and you want 406 00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:44,240 Speaker 1: to watch the Cleveland Indians or the Cavaliers, you're subscribing 407 00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:46,880 Speaker 1: to a Bally Sports channel. They're called Bally Sports because 408 00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:49,520 Speaker 1: they did a deal with Bally, the casino company. But 409 00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:52,040 Speaker 1: there's a lot of these channels around the country where 410 00:22:52,119 --> 00:22:54,680 Speaker 1: local fans are watching their local home team through these 411 00:22:54,720 --> 00:22:59,040 Speaker 1: cable channels. Their subscribers are declining because people are cutting 412 00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:01,679 Speaker 1: the cord. This is company that was under an enormous 413 00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:04,440 Speaker 1: amount of debt and is now really struggling to make 414 00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:07,440 Speaker 1: the interest payments on these debts because at the same 415 00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:10,960 Speaker 1: time they are paying Major League Baseball, the NBA, the 416 00:23:11,119 --> 00:23:14,879 Speaker 1: NHL increasing amount of money for the rights to broadcast 417 00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:17,840 Speaker 1: the game. So You've got cable subscribers, which is how 418 00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:20,639 Speaker 1: they were paying for these rights. Those are declining, the 419 00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:23,399 Speaker 1: rights fees are going up. You're already under a mountain 420 00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:25,800 Speaker 1: of debt. And what will be really interesting, and why 421 00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:29,200 Speaker 1: it's such a huge story is because these media rights 422 00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:31,840 Speaker 1: payments that these sports channels pay to the league's that 423 00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:35,560 Speaker 1: affects everything. That affects how these teams decide the salary cap. 424 00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:38,440 Speaker 1: How much players are getting paid depends in large part 425 00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:41,480 Speaker 1: on how much money they're getting from the sports channels. 426 00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:44,560 Speaker 1: So it's a fascinating story that has a lot of 427 00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:48,840 Speaker 1: big implications for the entire sports industry. I'm curious, Jerry, 428 00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:51,760 Speaker 1: who wins out of this. If the regional sports and 429 00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:55,720 Speaker 1: networks kind of fall apart, that audience has to go somewhere, 430 00:23:55,880 --> 00:23:58,800 Speaker 1: right Well, I think Major League Baseball is looking at 431 00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:02,159 Speaker 1: what's happened with these channels and they would like to 432 00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:04,520 Speaker 1: take the rights back. They would like to do some 433 00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:07,199 Speaker 1: sort of streaming service of their own. I mean, this 434 00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:11,520 Speaker 1: is a business that was relying on a certain number 435 00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:15,760 Speaker 1: of cable subscribers who were paying fees to these channels, 436 00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:18,359 Speaker 1: whether you watch them or not. And then not only 437 00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:21,520 Speaker 1: were they losing cable subscribers over the last few years. 438 00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:24,359 Speaker 1: But then your cable provider would maybe put those sports 439 00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:27,120 Speaker 1: channels on a separate tier where not everyone was subscribing 440 00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:29,360 Speaker 1: a lot of people who didn't care about sports were 441 00:24:29,359 --> 00:24:32,280 Speaker 1: still paying to subsidize the sports fans. And that model 442 00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:35,280 Speaker 1: starting to fall apart. And I think the sports leagues 443 00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:39,639 Speaker 1: are frustrated with what's happening. They're frustrated that these sports 444 00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:43,320 Speaker 1: channels are losing subscribers, and they're looking to take their 445 00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:45,760 Speaker 1: local rights back from these channels and maybe do their 446 00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:48,480 Speaker 1: own streaming service. Maybe they could partner with an Amazon 447 00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:51,560 Speaker 1: or an Apple or somebody else. But it's the next 448 00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:55,800 Speaker 1: few months are gonna be really interesting. Felix and Jerry 449 00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:58,679 Speaker 1: super Bowl coming up. We're talking about football, so I 450 00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:01,520 Speaker 1: would be remiss if I didn't us Chiefs are Eagles, 451 00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:10,320 Speaker 1: Eagles Chiefs. Okay, there you have it, Jerry Smith, Felix Gillette, 452 00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:12,199 Speaker 1: thanks so much for coming on the show. Thanks for 453 00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:16,000 Speaker 1: having me. Thanks Wes. You can read more from Jerry 454 00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:20,600 Speaker 1: Smith and Felix Gillette at Bloomberg dot com and shameless 455 00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:23,080 Speaker 1: Plug here. Check out the book Felix has written with 456 00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:27,480 Speaker 1: John Coblin it's called It's Not TV, The Spectacular, Rise, 457 00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:36,040 Speaker 1: Revolution and Future of HBO. As I promised at the 458 00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:39,240 Speaker 1: top of the show, Tim O'Brien is here, my colleague 459 00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:42,960 Speaker 1: and host of the new podcast Crash Course. Hey Tim, 460 00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:45,320 Speaker 1: Hey Wes. Thank you for having me. I'm so glad 461 00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:47,600 Speaker 1: to talk to you about this. Tell us about Crash Course. 462 00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:50,479 Speaker 1: What is the podcast all about? Crash Course is all 463 00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:54,600 Speaker 1: about disruption in the business, political and social spheres, with 464 00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:57,800 Speaker 1: the idea that people can learn something from those collisions. 465 00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:00,960 Speaker 1: So Crash Courses will play both on a collision and 466 00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:03,399 Speaker 1: a learning moment. And so what we try to distill 467 00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:07,159 Speaker 1: in each episode is an understanding of something that is 468 00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:10,320 Speaker 1: epic in terms of the nature of the collision and 469 00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:13,040 Speaker 1: then instructive in terms of the lessons we can draw 470 00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:15,000 Speaker 1: from it. So give us an idea of some of 471 00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:17,800 Speaker 1: the episodes you've done so far. Well, you'll be shocked 472 00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:21,720 Speaker 1: to discover that we launched with Elon Musk, who is 473 00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:26,040 Speaker 1: is sort of the red meat repository of disruptive moments 474 00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:30,760 Speaker 1: like a literal and figurative, metaphorical and actual collision in 475 00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:33,080 Speaker 1: Eddy in every way, we could probably just do three 476 00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:35,639 Speaker 1: and sixty five days a year of Elon Musk, but 477 00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:39,040 Speaker 1: we chose to do just one. We also did an 478 00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:43,320 Speaker 1: episode about the pharmaceutical companies and the COVID vaccines and 479 00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:47,320 Speaker 1: the collision between their inventiveness and their greed. We did 480 00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:50,119 Speaker 1: uh I think, a wonderful episode about the turmoil at 481 00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:53,159 Speaker 1: the top of Disney in the cage match for the 482 00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:58,159 Speaker 1: CEO suite there. And we have a multipart episode newly 483 00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:01,240 Speaker 1: launching that we're very excited about about sports gambling, the 484 00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:04,159 Speaker 1: sports gambling boom. It looks at the growth of sports 485 00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:08,600 Speaker 1: gambling itself. I sat at length with a very hardcore 486 00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:11,600 Speaker 1: sports gambler in Chicago and sort of watched him ply 487 00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:15,920 Speaker 1: his trade. Um. I sat in London with digital gum 488 00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:19,679 Speaker 1: shoes who track match fixing and corruption. And then I 489 00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:24,000 Speaker 1: spend time up in Foxwoods, a tribal casino in Connecticut, 490 00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:27,440 Speaker 1: to look at how sports gambling is challenging an industry 491 00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:31,119 Speaker 1: that's made a lot of money for Native Americans. You know, 492 00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:33,440 Speaker 1: this is such a huge issue. We did an episode 493 00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:38,280 Speaker 1: recently about the UK online gambling problem and how this 494 00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:42,200 Speaker 1: has just become a really bad problem for gambling addiction, 495 00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:45,199 Speaker 1: and how it's now heading to the US. And I 496 00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:48,000 Speaker 1: have to say everywhere I go online now the as 497 00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:52,119 Speaker 1: for online sports betting, they're everywhere. It's just taking over 498 00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:56,280 Speaker 1: the internet. How they are pushing these new betting platforms 499 00:27:56,720 --> 00:28:00,440 Speaker 1: and TV and probably every transit station you through to 500 00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:03,879 Speaker 1: their it's wallpapered with sports betting ads. Um you know, 501 00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:07,280 Speaker 1: odds now scroll across the bottom of the TV screen 502 00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:11,119 Speaker 1: during sporting events. It's it's becoming really woven into our 503 00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:14,160 Speaker 1: daily lives. And I think one of the things that's 504 00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:16,120 Speaker 1: so important about what happened in the UK is it's 505 00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:20,439 Speaker 1: a precursor. We can learn from what happened over there, because, uh, 506 00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:24,159 Speaker 1: the US has never really confronted or tried to contend 507 00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:29,080 Speaker 1: with something of this scope around gambling. Yes, there's been casinos, obviously, 508 00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:34,840 Speaker 1: there's Vegas. There's been you know, back alley betting for eons, 509 00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:38,160 Speaker 1: but it's now been wedded to the internet. It's getting legalized. 510 00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:41,160 Speaker 1: It's in kids backpacks, it's in people's living rooms, it's 511 00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:44,240 Speaker 1: in people's pockets, and it's going to change how we 512 00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:48,200 Speaker 1: relate to money, sports and one another. You know, I 513 00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:50,320 Speaker 1: mean doing three episodes on the subject, is that right, 514 00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:51,920 Speaker 1: three of them? And I think you know, it's a 515 00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:55,240 Speaker 1: narrative approach. I think it's immersive. Our listeners get to 516 00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:59,080 Speaker 1: meet the people were meeting. We take them inside those 517 00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:02,920 Speaker 1: people's world, and I think it's a deep, immersive dive 518 00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:05,800 Speaker 1: into this phenomenon, and it's one that we're particularly proud of. 519 00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:08,480 Speaker 1: But we'll still have to earn our listeners loyalty. What's 520 00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:10,520 Speaker 1: the best part about doing the podcast so far? The 521 00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:15,920 Speaker 1: privilege of getting to understand why all of the crazy, 522 00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:21,360 Speaker 1: destructive and confounding and inspiring and innovative people who float 523 00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:24,360 Speaker 1: around us do the things they do. Tim, thanks so 524 00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:26,960 Speaker 1: much for coming on and talking about crash Course. I 525 00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:29,200 Speaker 1: love listening to it. I'm really looking forward to listening more. 526 00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:32,800 Speaker 1: Thank you, weus thanks for listening to us here at 527 00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:35,560 Speaker 1: The Big Take. It's a daily podcast from Bloomberg and 528 00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:38,960 Speaker 1: I Heart Radio. For more shows from my Heart Radio, 529 00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:42,840 Speaker 1: visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 530 00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:45,719 Speaker 1: you listen, and we'd love to hear from you. Email 531 00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:49,760 Speaker 1: us questions or comments to Big Take at Bloomberg dot net. 532 00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:54,360 Speaker 1: The supervising producer of The Big Take is Vicky Burgolina. 533 00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:58,720 Speaker 1: Our senior producer is Katherine Fink. Our producers are Moe 534 00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:02,760 Speaker 1: Barrow and Michael Lero. Raphael I'm Cely is our engineer 535 00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:06,640 Speaker 1: our original music, who was composed by Leo Sidrin. I'm 536 00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:10,280 Speaker 1: West Casova. We'll be back tomorrow with another big take.