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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly

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Speaker 1: conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small

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Speaker 1: decisions we can make to become the best possible versions

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Speaker 1: of ourselves. I'm your host, Dr Joy hard and Bradford,

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Speaker 1: a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or

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Speaker 1: to find a therapist in your area, visit our website

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Speaker 1: at Therapy for Black Girls dot com. While I hope

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Speaker 1: you love listening to and learning from the podcast, it

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Speaker 1: is not meant to be a substitute for a relationship

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Speaker 1: with a licensed mental health professional. Hey y'all, thanks so

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Speaker 1: much for joining me for session two sixty two of

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Speaker 1: the Therapy for a Black Girl's Podcast. We'll get right

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Speaker 1: into our conversation after word from our sponsors. In honor

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Speaker 1: and celebration of Pride Month, today, we're focusing on the

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Speaker 1: experiences of those in the l g B t q I,

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Speaker 1: a community that identify as a sexual or a romantic.

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Speaker 1: This week, I'm joined by Yasmin ben Wah, the award

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Speaker 1: winning a romantic, a sexual activist and founder of the

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Speaker 1: This Is What a Sexual Looks Like movement. Our conversation

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Speaker 1: explores what a sexuality is and how it differs from

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Speaker 1: a romanticism, some common misconceptions about the a sexuality community,

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Speaker 1: and the intersection of being both a black woman and

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Speaker 1: an ace aero woman. If something resonates with you while

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Speaker 1: enjoying our conversation, please share with us on social media

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Speaker 1: using the hashtag TVG in session, or join us over

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Speaker 1: in the sister circle to talk more in depth about

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Speaker 1: the episode. You can join us at community that Therapy

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Speaker 1: for Black Girls dot com. Here's our conversation. Thank you

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Speaker 1: so much for joining us today, Yasmin, thanks for having me.

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Speaker 1: I'm very excited to chat with you. I would love

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Speaker 1: for you to begin by just telling us a little

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Speaker 1: bit about yourself and about how you identify on the spectrum. Well,

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Speaker 1: my name is yas and Ben Why. I'm a model

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Speaker 1: and aromatic a sexual activist, writer, speaker, and I just

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Speaker 1: really just use the terms a sexually romantic. I don't

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Speaker 1: really get too deeply into the semantics. Yeah, and for

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Speaker 1: those of us, like with the very beginner's knowledge, can

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Speaker 1: you give us a little bit of a like just

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Speaker 1: a generic or simple definition of a sexuality and how

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Speaker 1: it's different from somebody who's a romantic. Yeah, So, a

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Speaker 1: sexuality means experiencing little to no sexual attraction towards anyone,

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Speaker 1: regardless of that gender. So it's a type of sexual orientation, um,

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Speaker 1: whereas being a romantic is a romantic orientation, and that

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Speaker 1: means that you're not romantically attracted to anybody. So you

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Speaker 1: can be a sexual about being a romantic and you

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Speaker 1: can be a romantic about being a sexual. I just

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Speaker 1: happened to be both, and there are quite a lot

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Speaker 1: of people out there who are both. Yeah, and that's

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Speaker 1: why I think it's so important the work that you

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Speaker 1: do as an a sexual educator and an advocate. Can

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Speaker 1: you tell me about what that work look like and

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Speaker 1: how you got into it. Yeah, So, I mean there's

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Speaker 1: kind of a lot of gaps to feel so I

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Speaker 1: pretty much just trying my hand and everything. So initially

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Speaker 1: it was just kind of like incorporating it into my

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Speaker 1: modeling work and talking about it on social media. I

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Speaker 1: write articles for a bunch of different platforms, podcasts, I've

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Speaker 1: done radio, I've done a radio docuseries, documentaries, consulting on

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Speaker 1: TV projects. I speak a lot of at businesses and universities.

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Speaker 1: I've launched the UK's for As a Sexual Rights initiative,

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Speaker 1: it kind of goes into a bunch of different areas, research, assisting,

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Speaker 1: behind the scenes, conferences, events, all that kind of stuff.

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Speaker 1: I just kind of got into it very much. Accidentally.

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Speaker 1: After I graduated from my degree, I was able to

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Speaker 1: kind of focus on it a bit more. But initially

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Speaker 1: it was just something I mentioned on my social media.

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Speaker 1: Because I'd already built a platform through my modeling, I

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Speaker 1: felt like I might as well use it to filly

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Speaker 1: gap in our representation a little bit, because I thought

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Speaker 1: it was ironic to complain that there was not much

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Speaker 1: black a sexual representation if I wasn't actively doing anything

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Speaker 1: about it, a so on of a platform and yeah,

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Speaker 1: and it just kind of snowballed from there. Really, m M,

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Speaker 1: can you tell me a little bit more about the

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Speaker 1: uk A central rights work that you've done. On April six,

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Speaker 1: which was Internationally Sexuality Day, which was also an occasional

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Speaker 1: I co founded UM, I launched our first AI sexual

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Speaker 1: rights initiative. It's called the stone Wall and Jasmine Benoi

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Speaker 1: as Project stone Wall being one of the biggest lgbt

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Speaker 1: Q rights organizations in Europe, and yeah, we're going to

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Speaker 1: be producing a report into the issue of a sexual

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Speaker 1: discrimination in in the UK, particularly in the workplace, healthcare

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Speaker 1: and education, and are going to be using the results

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Speaker 1: of that report too, hopefully influence policy and legislation to

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Speaker 1: make it more inclusive. So yeah, that's kind of what

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Speaker 1: it is. Can you talk a little bit about some

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Speaker 1: of the rights that you are introducing or hoping for

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Speaker 1: as a part of this initiative. Well, the National LGBT

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Speaker 1: Survey eighteen, which was one that was conducted by the

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Speaker 1: government within the UK, found that, like there's such a

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Speaker 1: stark difference when it comes to the a sexual community,

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Speaker 1: like we have the lowest life satisfaction rates, were less

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Speaker 1: likely to be out to anyone, whether it's friends, family, colleagues.

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Speaker 1: We are temperas that more likely to be offered or

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Speaker 1: to undergo conversion therapy compared to other sexual orientations. We

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Speaker 1: are more likely to have negative experiences in healthcare. Is

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Speaker 1: probably something to do with that. We still pathologize as

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Speaker 1: hyperactive sexual desire disorder in the International Classification of Diseases,

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Speaker 1: which is something that was tackled in the US already

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Speaker 1: with your Diagnostic and Statistical Annual of Mental Disorders. It

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Speaker 1: kind of put a clarification in there, but we don't

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Speaker 1: have that in Europe or in the UK and so,

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Speaker 1: and we're not including in sex education, we're not protected

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Speaker 1: by the Equality Act, we're not protected by hate crime law.

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Speaker 1: So that's just like a lot of gaps that would

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Speaker 1: really be helped if there was specific data dedicated to

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Speaker 1: it and if there was a report that was specific

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Speaker 1: to the a sexual community in the UK. So we're

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Speaker 1: hoping that once we have that information, we have those testimonies,

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Speaker 1: that we can use it as leverage to make people

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Speaker 1: listen a bit more when we talk about aes phobia

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Speaker 1: and things like that. Yeah, thank you for sharing it.

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Speaker 1: So you mentioned convergent therapy and I knew that it

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Speaker 1: is something that has really been kind of outlawed in

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Speaker 1: the psychological fields here in the U S. It really

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Speaker 1: talked about how damaging net is. Is that the same

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Speaker 1: in the UK? Not really, it's legal. Actually, there's a

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Speaker 1: campaign going on right now and as we record this,

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Speaker 1: the government is currently discussing it because people have been

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Speaker 1: campaigning to get it banned for a long time and

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Speaker 1: recently our government and said that they would consider banning it,

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Speaker 1: but not for transgender people, and they've left a sexual

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Speaker 1: people out of it. Then there was more campaigning about that,

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Speaker 1: and so today we might find out whether they're actually

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Speaker 1: do a proper ban or not. It's hard to be

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Speaker 1: optimistic because they've really lingered on it for quite a while,

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Speaker 1: but yeah, that is something that hasn't really been outlawed

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Speaker 1: in the UK yet unfortunately. Okay, thank you for this,

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Speaker 1: So if you feel comfortable sharing, how did you first

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Speaker 1: realize that you were both a sexual and a romantic.

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Speaker 1: I always say that I realized when everyone else realized

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Speaker 1: that they weren't. So I feel like it's kind of

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Speaker 1: like early puberty when people start having sexual orientations, or

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Speaker 1: their sexuality becomes directed to lords other people, or they've

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Speaker 1: become interested in romance and dating and kind of expressing that.

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Speaker 1: Prior to that, everyone is pretty much a sexually romantic

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Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden they're not. And that's

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Speaker 1: when I kind of noticed that I was experiencing things

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Speaker 1: in a different way. But I didn't discover the terminology

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Speaker 1: until I was a teenager, and I didn't really start

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Speaker 1: using it until a while later. Okay, Okay, I was

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Speaker 1: going to ask like, was there a gap in between,

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Speaker 1: like you realizing like, oh, I feel something that may

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Speaker 1: be different versus having language to describe it. Yeah, And

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Speaker 1: also you don't really feel that inclined to put language

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Speaker 1: on it when you were like ten, It would be

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Speaker 1: kind of weird to bother labeling your sexual orientation at

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Speaker 1: that age because I kind of assumed it would kick

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Speaker 1: in at some point and that I was just kind

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Speaker 1: of in a transitional phase. But by the time you're

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Speaker 1: like a teenager, by the time you're like fifteen, like,

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Speaker 1: people would very much to be like, what is your deal?

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Speaker 1: And I was like, I don't know. I guess you

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Speaker 1: want me to have a word for this. And that

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Speaker 1: was how I ended up discovering the word was mainly

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Speaker 1: through people like pestering me. But I still didn't feel

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Speaker 1: like it was really that useful to have because no

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Speaker 1: one really believed me when I told them what I

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Speaker 1: was anyway, no one knew what I was talking about,

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Speaker 1: So I was like, it's not like I can really

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Speaker 1: successfully come out, So what's the point in me having

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Speaker 1: the word. So when you say people didn't believe you,

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Speaker 1: what do you mean, like, what would your experiences and

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Speaker 1: trying to describe your experience, Well they just say like, oh, well,

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Speaker 1: that's not what it is. You must just be well behaved,

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Speaker 1: or maybe you know it just hasn't happened for you

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Speaker 1: yet you haven't met the right person yet. Or maybe

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Speaker 1: you're gay and you haven't worked it out. Or maybe

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Speaker 1: there's something physically wrong with you. Maybe there's something mentally

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Speaker 1: wrong with you. Maybe you're stunted, maybe you're repressed, maybe

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Speaker 1: you're all kinds of other things other than just being

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Speaker 1: a sexual. Like, no one really accepted the answer, so

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Speaker 1: after a while you just stop mentioning it. Got it?

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Speaker 1: So as a part of your work, you talk about

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Speaker 1: the difference between esthetic attraction and sexual attraction. Can you

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Speaker 1: say more about that? Yeah, I mean to put it

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Speaker 1: very simply, like I can recognize if someone has a

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Speaker 1: really nice face, I just have no inclination to sit

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Speaker 1: on it. So it's kind of like that. It's like,

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Speaker 1: that's the difference. It's kind of a visual appeal, but

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Speaker 1: it doesn't that's it, got it? Got it? I appreciate

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Speaker 1: that that description, right, because it's like, Okay, I can

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Speaker 1: see why somebody might be attractive, I'm just not attracted

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Speaker 1: to them. Yeah, it's I guess it's a good lucky person.

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Speaker 1: Like if I had to pick a face, to look

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Speaker 1: at that would be a preferable one, but the attraction

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Speaker 1: isn't sexual. Might be attractive in the sense that I

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Speaker 1: would enjoy looking at you the same way I would

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Speaker 1: like a painting or something, but you know, I'm not

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Speaker 1: gonna lick a painting. I'm not gonna lick you either.

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Speaker 1: So what are some of the things that you think

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Speaker 1: can make it difficult for somebody to recognize that they

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Speaker 1: are or maybe a sexual. I mean, I think the

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Speaker 1: main difficulties is that there isn't really a fixed criteria.

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Speaker 1: It's an objective or like a subjective experience, like it

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Speaker 1: depends on how abnormal you feel, how much you feel

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Speaker 1: like you're experiencing something differently. It's very much dependent on

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Speaker 1: your circumstances in your company and your culture, and you

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Speaker 1: know what's normalized in your environment, so it's kind of

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Speaker 1: dependent on that. I think if I was living in

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Speaker 1: a place where no one really expressed their actuality at

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Speaker 1: all and no one really spoke about it, and girls

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Speaker 1: weren't expected to do anything and boys let then I

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Speaker 1: probably wouldn't have noticed. It wouldn't be something that relevant.

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Speaker 1: But I think in a Western country where it's kind

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Speaker 1: of everywhere it becomes more obvious. So I think that

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Speaker 1: can be one of the challenges because there's no fixed

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Speaker 1: criteria of what is a normal amount of sexual attraction

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Speaker 1: and what is an abnormal amount of sexual attraction, what

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Speaker 1: isn't enough and what is too much? So it's very

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Speaker 1: much just based on like your room perception and the

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Speaker 1: perception of people around you. So whenever people so like, oh,

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Speaker 1: how can I know, or this person said i'm this

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Speaker 1: person that I am, it's like, if you feel like

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Speaker 1: it's helpful to label it, label, if you don't feel

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Speaker 1: like it's helpful, don't. As as far as it goes, really,

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Speaker 1: there's no clear cut way to think about it, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, because the labels, it feels like, are for

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Speaker 1: other people in a lot of ways, right, And really,

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Speaker 1: what the labels can do, I think for individuals is

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Speaker 1: just give language to explain how you might have been

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Speaker 1: feeling like and you hadn't found that language before. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's something that's supposed to help you

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Speaker 1: to articulate something. Sometimes it's helpful just for yourself. If

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Speaker 1: you felt like you needed to feel like other people

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Speaker 1: are experiencing the same thing as you, and that makes

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Speaker 1: you feel better to be able to have a term

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Speaker 1: just for yourself. And sometimes people don't really care for

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Speaker 1: themselves and they just do it for other people. And

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Speaker 1: some appreciate it for both raisons, and some don't appreciate

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Speaker 1: it at all and they don't use any label. So

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Speaker 1: it's all up to you. But I spent like the

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Speaker 1: good tenures not really using any of them, and I

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Speaker 1: was that worked for me, and using it also works

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Speaker 1: for me, but I don't really mind that much either way.

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Speaker 1: Got it? Got it more from my conversation with Yasmin

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Speaker 1: after the break. So you mentioned the term earlier that

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Speaker 1: I'd love for you to talk a little bit more.

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Speaker 1: You mentioned eight phobia, So can you tell us what

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Speaker 1: that is and what that looks like. Yeah, I mean

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Speaker 1: that's you could probably guess from the word. It's kind

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Speaker 1: of like homophobia, by phobia, transphobia, all the other phobias,

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Speaker 1: but kind of more specific to a sexuality and just

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Speaker 1: kind of like negative attitudes, negative behaviors, negative stereotypes that

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Speaker 1: people place on you on the basis of your sexual orientation,

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Speaker 1: specifically being a sexual So that can be in the

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Speaker 1: same as other instances of any kind of queer phobia.

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Speaker 1: It can be someone straight up insulting you. It can

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Speaker 1: be someone thinking that there's something physically you're mentally wrong

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Speaker 1: with you. It could be someone thinking that you're like

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Speaker 1: less of a person or feeling like you're not going

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Speaker 1: to be able to live a fulfilling life, or treating

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Speaker 1: you differently or threatening you, or it's very much the

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Speaker 1: same logic as the other ones, really, but it can

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Speaker 1: manifest in very similar ways. M hmmm, And what does

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Speaker 1: it look like to take care of yourself in light

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Speaker 1: of acephobia? Like what kinds of mental health impact do

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Speaker 1: you feel like? Get his hand on you are can

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Speaker 1: have other people. I mean, I'm pretty thick skinned, personally

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Speaker 1: awise o and be able to do this job. So

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Speaker 1: I feel like for me it doesn't have that much

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Speaker 1: of an impact, not because it doesn't happen, but because

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Speaker 1: I tend not to care. But I think that based

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Speaker 1: on the statistics I mentioned earlier, like how many a

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Speaker 1: sexual people just do not come out to anybody and

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Speaker 1: are in fear of coming out because they're scared of

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Speaker 1: what the reactions will be. It has a psychological impact

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Speaker 1: of feeling like you have to live in secret, or

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Speaker 1: you have to make yourself do things that you don't

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Speaker 1: want to do so you can be accepted or so

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Speaker 1: you can fit the box of what we're taught is

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Speaker 1: how you live a fulfilling, happy, connected life of other people.

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Speaker 1: And the rights of like depression and anxiety in the

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Speaker 1: a sexual community are as high as they are within

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Speaker 1: the wider queer community, higher than it is within the

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Speaker 1: heterosexual population. And I don't doubt that it is because

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Speaker 1: of acephobia. It is because of all the messages that

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Speaker 1: you internalize as someone who isn't straight, that there is

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Speaker 1: something wrong with you and that you are really be happy,

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Speaker 1: and that no one's going to accept you and no

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Speaker 1: one's gonna love you, and all that kind of stuff.

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Speaker 1: So I think it definitely has an impact in those ways.

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Speaker 1: So how would you say that the a sexual community

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Speaker 1: is situated in the larger queer community. It can be

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Speaker 1: a topic of debate for some people, but like for me,

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Speaker 1: if you're a sexual, then the chances are that you're

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Speaker 1: not straight. You don't really have the experience of someone

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Speaker 1: who suterosexual, and based on my understanding of coolness, that

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Speaker 1: was quite a big part of the criteria. You don't

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Speaker 1: really aligned with like gender expectations or you don't fit

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Speaker 1: within like the heteronormative box and therefore you are kind

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Speaker 1: of part of that community. But yeah, so I mean

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Speaker 1: that's kind of how it fits. It's something that like

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Speaker 1: looking back historically, like all of the early mentionings over

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Speaker 1: sexuality of being by people who are within the lgbt

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Speaker 1: Q plus community has been by gay writers, gay historians,

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Speaker 1: gay sexologists. Most of like the early literature was tied

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Speaker 1: in with like lesbianism and back in like the nineteen

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Speaker 1: sixties kind of like that kind of era, and even

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Speaker 1: beforehand when it came to early research like the Kinsey scale,

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Speaker 1: which was kind of looking at different sexual orientations and

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Speaker 1: like the populations of it. The first documentation of asexuality

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Speaker 1: was within that. So it's something we've always kind of

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Speaker 1: been tied into it, just not in a very obvious way,

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Speaker 1: just because of like the prominent messages in the community

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Speaker 1: aren't always relative to us, but then can also be

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Speaker 1: relative to us depending on the perspective. So, yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: a strange topic of debate, but we've always been in there. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so can you tell me more about what's up for debate.

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Speaker 1: It's very much a kind of like mean, girls, you

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Speaker 1: can't sit with us, kind of by the mean. There's

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Speaker 1: exclusionism within the lgbt Q plus community the same way

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Speaker 1: there is a funny others, like there's racism in the community.

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Speaker 1: There's people who don't like buy people, and then they

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Speaker 1: don't like trans people, and they only like certain types

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Speaker 1: of gay people or certain types of lesbians, and then

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Speaker 1: they don't think a sexual people should be in there,

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Speaker 1: and they don't think that pan sexuality is a thing,

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Speaker 1: And there's all kinds of debate going on constantly, So

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Speaker 1: we just kind of get caught up in one of

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Speaker 1: them of this sort of oppression Olympics mentality and this

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Speaker 1: idea that I don't know, there's a certain amount of

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Speaker 1: seats at the table, and that if you are, they are,

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Speaker 1: then you have to kick someone else off who deserve

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Speaker 1: that space more than you because they faced more historical

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Speaker 1: oppression than you did. And it's a very strange criteria

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Speaker 1: to base things on. But that is a debate, unfortunately. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and I can imagine that this feels even more marginalizing

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Speaker 1: for black people who identify as a sexual or a romantic.

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Speaker 1: The strange part of it being caught in a debate

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Speaker 1: is someone who's black is that? So often I have

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Speaker 1: white people telling me that I don't understand what oppression

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Speaker 1: is and I don't understand what discrimination is and trying

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Speaker 1: to educate me on these phenomenons because they can't really

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Speaker 1: equate being a sexual and being black, and so they

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Speaker 1: kind of had this to predetermined and they don't know

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Speaker 1: how to adjust it, so they just go straight to it.

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Speaker 1: And so they're talking to like a suburban white kid

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Speaker 1: and they're like, well, you don't understand what discrimination is,

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Speaker 1: so that's why you're under this strange idea that you're

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Speaker 1: part of a marginalized group, and let me explain to

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Speaker 1: you what oppression is. And I'm like, please, white guys,

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Speaker 1: sit down, like I know, I know, I'm not even

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Speaker 1: equating a sexuality to the oppression of being gay or

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Speaker 1: the oppression to being black, and obviously you don't know

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Speaker 1: what the oppression of being black is like, so let's

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Speaker 1: not get into that subject. But it's all very strange

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Speaker 1: because that happens to me so often. And do you

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Speaker 1: feel like that is I mean, I can't imagine that

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Speaker 1: that is uniquely like a UK thing, but do you

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Speaker 1: think it is something about like the culture in Europe

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Speaker 1: that brings about that kind of a feeling. It's definitely

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Speaker 1: not just you're I think it's America as well, Like

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Speaker 1: I think a lot of my audiences American. I think

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Speaker 1: it's very much the same over there. I say it's

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Speaker 1: probably mainly a UK US phenomenon just because in terms

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Speaker 1: of like the loudest a sexual populations, it tends to

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Speaker 1: be people in those countries. I think we just had

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Speaker 1: to be the loudest of Western countries in general. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's something that's definitely going on in the UK right now.

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Speaker 1: There's definitely a kind of exclusionist movement happening here, like

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Speaker 1: trans exclusionary radical feminism is very much a thing here.

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Speaker 1: But then you also see things like that kind of

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Speaker 1: happening in the U S as well. I don't know

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Speaker 1: if it's it's the same or as bad, but I

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Speaker 1: feel like it's a kind of a similarity. Yeah, it

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Speaker 1: definitely feels like there has been some related to like

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Speaker 1: j K Rowling right Like, it feels like there's any

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Speaker 1: surgeons of you know, that kind of sentiment, more discussion

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Speaker 1: around it. Yeah, she railed a lot of people up,

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Speaker 1: especially especially here. She gave them a newfound confidence, and

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Speaker 1: those people do not like me, and they do not

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Speaker 1: like a sexual people either, so we tend to get

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Speaker 1: very caught up in that. Yeah, so what are some

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Speaker 1: of the common misconceptions that you've come across about people

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Speaker 1: who are a romantic or a sexual and mean, they're

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Speaker 1: slightly different but sort of reminiscent of the same thing.

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Speaker 1: I always say that if for a sexuality, it's more

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Speaker 1: that there's something wrong with your body, and for a romanticism,

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Speaker 1: it is more like there's something wrong with your soul,

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Speaker 1: because we equate experiencing romantic love as being like a

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Speaker 1: huge sign of your like humanity and your capacity to

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Speaker 1: connect with people. So when you say that that's actually

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Speaker 1: not how mindy emotions manifest for people, they think that

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Speaker 1: you're like a full blown Baltimore. So that tends to

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Speaker 1: be one of the main ones that people attach it

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Speaker 1: to your personality and think that you must be like

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Speaker 1: a full blown serial killer, like a total psychopathic, narcissistic

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Speaker 1: person or probably the things that like I hear the most.

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Speaker 1: But I've been called serial killer are more times than

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Speaker 1: I can count, which is strange because you think that

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Speaker 1: if I actually was a serial killer. People wouldn't want

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Speaker 1: to piss me off, so they wouldn't say that, but

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Speaker 1: they seed to miss that important detail. And then for

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Speaker 1: like a sexuality, it's kind of like that you must

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Speaker 1: just be like very anti sex or frigid or prude,

397
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Speaker 1: or you think you're too good for any body, like

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Speaker 1: that's why you didn't find any was sexually attractive. Or

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Speaker 1: maybe you're too ugly for everybody and no one wants

400
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Speaker 1: you anyway, so you're just using it as an excuse.

401
00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:11,399
Speaker 1: Or people think that like you're an in cell, or

402
00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:15,080
Speaker 1: that you just kind of like have a hormonal problem,

403
00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:17,879
Speaker 1: or you just can't become physically aroused, or you're scared

404
00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:20,720
Speaker 1: of sex, or you have some kind of trauma is

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00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:22,639
Speaker 1: a very common one. People tend to think that you

406
00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:25,679
Speaker 1: must have just been sexually abused and like it just

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00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:28,680
Speaker 1: traumatized you and now you don't understand sex at all

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Speaker 1: or something, or that you're like a pedophile and you're

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Speaker 1: just using that as a cover is another strangely common one. Wow, okay,

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Speaker 1: and so related to it, sounds like this is most

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Speaker 1: closely related to a romantic So can you talk a

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Speaker 1: little bit about the capacity to form other relationships that

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Speaker 1: are not like romantic, like parent chowl or friendships, Like

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Speaker 1: can you say a little bit about that? I feel

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Speaker 1: like when you're kind of romantic, like you're you know,

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Speaker 1: people use that phrase like, oh, your friends are like

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Speaker 1: more than friends. It's like, no, like friendship is the

418
00:21:58,440 --> 00:22:01,680
Speaker 1: more like that is is the peak, that is the epitome,

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Speaker 1: Like it's not a stepping stone to something else. Like

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Speaker 1: that is the kind of one of the types of

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Speaker 1: relationships that I value as much as someone would value

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Speaker 1: a romantic relationships. So when people kind of equate it

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Speaker 1: with like not having an emotional capacity for people, it's

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00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:17,880
Speaker 1: like no, it's just like there's more than one type

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Speaker 1: of way you can like someone. I think it's a

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Speaker 1: shame that people put all their eggs in one romantic

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Speaker 1: basket and don't place the same energy in like different

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00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:27,760
Speaker 1: kinds of relationships. But like you know, you can have

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Speaker 1: great relationships with your friends. You could form families with

430
00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:36,200
Speaker 1: your friends and then parents, siblings, children, pets. You could

431
00:22:36,560 --> 00:22:40,080
Speaker 1: be like a mentor to people, you could teach people,

432
00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:42,159
Speaker 1: Like there are so many different kinds of relationships that

433
00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:44,639
Speaker 1: you can have that can be very fulfilling. Like I know,

434
00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:46,639
Speaker 1: people that are teachers that don't have any kids of

435
00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:49,200
Speaker 1: their own, but in a sense they have hundreds. So

436
00:22:49,359 --> 00:22:51,960
Speaker 1: it's like there's so many different ways that you can have, like,

437
00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:55,600
Speaker 1: you know, meaningful bonds of people that don't involve celebrating

438
00:22:55,640 --> 00:23:00,560
Speaker 1: Valentine's with them, right. More from my conversation if yasmin

439
00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:13,760
Speaker 1: after the break, So you have developed this viral campaign,

440
00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:17,080
Speaker 1: the hashag this is what asexual looks like. Can you

441
00:23:17,119 --> 00:23:19,719
Speaker 1: tell us a little bit about your inspiration for creating

442
00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:23,000
Speaker 1: the hashag? Yeah, I mean, initially it was kind of

443
00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:27,040
Speaker 1: just because I was constantly told that I don't look

444
00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:29,280
Speaker 1: a sexual. That's kind of one of the things that

445
00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:32,639
Speaker 1: people used to like debunk my orientation to me. And

446
00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:37,440
Speaker 1: it wasn't because I wasn't taking every seemingly a sexual box.

447
00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:39,080
Speaker 1: It was purely just because of what I looked like.

448
00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:41,120
Speaker 1: And I know that had everything to do with my race.

449
00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:43,479
Speaker 1: I know it had everything to do with how I dressed,

450
00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:46,800
Speaker 1: and there being a sort of stereotypical image like this

451
00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:51,320
Speaker 1: kind of Sheldon Cooper or like mousey, homely white girl

452
00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:53,879
Speaker 1: idea of what an a sexual person is supposed to

453
00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:56,000
Speaker 1: look like. And it's sort of stems from the way

454
00:23:56,040 --> 00:23:58,679
Speaker 1: we've been represented and just stereotypes them in our culture

455
00:23:58,680 --> 00:24:01,679
Speaker 1: in general, but for much left out, like the diversity

456
00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:05,320
Speaker 1: of the community, which I have seen personally, but you

457
00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:08,240
Speaker 1: don't really see unless you're like looking for it and

458
00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:10,480
Speaker 1: unless you're part of the community yourself. So I just

459
00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:13,280
Speaker 1: wanted to give the agency back to the community so

460
00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:15,639
Speaker 1: we can represent ourselves about having to rely on like

461
00:24:16,119 --> 00:24:18,040
Speaker 1: the media to do it, because they tended to have

462
00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:21,040
Speaker 1: a very specific idea that they wanted to go for.

463
00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:24,680
Speaker 1: And I also found that so much for our community,

464
00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:27,360
Speaker 1: like they mainly engage with each other online, and when

465
00:24:27,359 --> 00:24:30,000
Speaker 1: you are online, you don't really get to see people's

466
00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:32,560
Speaker 1: faces very often. It's like avatars and emojis and like

467
00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:34,880
Speaker 1: blocks of text. But I don't think it's very healthy

468
00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:38,680
Speaker 1: too only interact with people inside your community and never

469
00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:41,879
Speaker 1: actually see what anyone looks like. So I kind of

470
00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:44,879
Speaker 1: wanted to just see some more faces. And now you

471
00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:46,720
Speaker 1: can type that in and scroll and see loads and

472
00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:49,920
Speaker 1: loads of faces. So I've personally found that quite helpful. Yeah,

473
00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:53,360
Speaker 1: and you talked earlier about incorporating some of this into

474
00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:55,679
Speaker 1: your modeling work. Can you say more about that, and

475
00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:59,200
Speaker 1: like how you've taken on an initiative to include representation

476
00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:01,720
Speaker 1: in their way with a modeling work. It was initially

477
00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:04,840
Speaker 1: unintentional because I didn't really think that we still lived

478
00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:09,439
Speaker 1: in a time where people would like equate your appearance

479
00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:11,800
Speaker 1: to your sexuality that much like I didn't think that

480
00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:13,679
Speaker 1: me being a model and being a sexual was going

481
00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:18,879
Speaker 1: to be like a controversial point until it was. And

482
00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:21,600
Speaker 1: then I kind of realized that regardless however one thing

483
00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:24,200
Speaker 1: was associated with the other, every time I put out

484
00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:27,760
Speaker 1: something modeling related, people are going to see a sexuality

485
00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:29,040
Speaker 1: and that they're going to tie that in and it's

486
00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:32,640
Speaker 1: going to kind of inevitably become like a social statement.

487
00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:35,000
Speaker 1: And so I was like, Okay, well, I mean it

488
00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:37,080
Speaker 1: can't really be avoided, so I might as well just

489
00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:41,000
Speaker 1: like own that association. And for example, I did a

490
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:45,440
Speaker 1: campaign last year with a Lingerie brand for Playful Promises,

491
00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:47,960
Speaker 1: and we did like an a sexual theme like Lingerie

492
00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:52,800
Speaker 1: campaign with them, which was like both educational and esthetically

493
00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:56,080
Speaker 1: pleasing to me anyway, I thought it looked cute. Yeah,

494
00:25:56,040 --> 00:25:58,840
Speaker 1: I'm just using the opportunities you have, Like when you're modeling,

495
00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:01,639
Speaker 1: people do interviews and you get to use that as

496
00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:04,800
Speaker 1: a way to like raise awareness at the same time

497
00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:07,679
Speaker 1: and tying them all together. Some people find it a

498
00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:10,280
Speaker 1: bit perplexing, but I think a lot of other people

499
00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:13,920
Speaker 1: find it cool because it kind of strays away from

500
00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:16,720
Speaker 1: that idea that if you're not sexually attracted to people,

501
00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:19,240
Speaker 1: then you need to make yourself very sexually unattractive, and

502
00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:21,640
Speaker 1: you need to like dull yourself down, and you shouldn't

503
00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:24,680
Speaker 1: do your hair or do your makeup or put any

504
00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:26,480
Speaker 1: effort into your clothing, and you should be like a

505
00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:29,199
Speaker 1: little wallflower that tries to blunt into the background as

506
00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:31,640
Speaker 1: much as possible. So it kind of challenges that idea,

507
00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:34,800
Speaker 1: which I think some people appreciate. Yeah, I appreciate you

508
00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:37,520
Speaker 1: sharing that about the Playful Promises campaign because that seems

509
00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:40,159
Speaker 1: like a very cool way for brands to kind of

510
00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:42,720
Speaker 1: get involved with, you know, of course displaying their products,

511
00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:45,960
Speaker 1: but also educating. Have you found that you've been approached

512
00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:48,520
Speaker 1: to do lots of those kinds of campaigns or are

513
00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:51,960
Speaker 1: you pitching two brands to do more of it. I mean,

514
00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:54,400
Speaker 1: that was definitely one that I sort of pitched to them.

515
00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:58,280
Speaker 1: A sexuality is not very trendy, is not something that

516
00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:02,160
Speaker 1: people like inherently think about, like let's do something that's

517
00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:04,480
Speaker 1: like focused on this. I do spend a lot of

518
00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:09,240
Speaker 1: time like pitching two people, but then like being Pride Month.

519
00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:11,480
Speaker 1: There's definitely been a few campaigns like I just did

520
00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:15,000
Speaker 1: one for Mercedes, and I did another one for a

521
00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:18,679
Speaker 1: flower company called Bloom and Wild, and you kind of

522
00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:22,400
Speaker 1: get to make it educational while also having some cool visuals,

523
00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:25,040
Speaker 1: having some cool cars, having some pretty flowers, and some

524
00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:28,119
Speaker 1: pretty outfits. So it's fun getting to blend because I

525
00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:30,840
Speaker 1: think that humans are very simple and we just like

526
00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:33,520
Speaker 1: to look at nice things. Half the time. We're more

527
00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:36,920
Speaker 1: likely to pay attention to something if there's something esthetically

528
00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:38,880
Speaker 1: pleasing at the front of it that catches your eyes.

529
00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:41,399
Speaker 1: So I think it's also quite a helpful technique to

530
00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:46,199
Speaker 1: you get people's attention. M I agree. So do you

531
00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:49,560
Speaker 1: feel like there is any good representation that you've seen

532
00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:52,560
Speaker 1: in the media for a sexuality or a room or

533
00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:55,520
Speaker 1: a romanticism, like any movies or TV shows that you

534
00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:57,879
Speaker 1: feel like you have done a really good job depicting this.

535
00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:00,880
Speaker 1: There's kind of two ways, because it's like there are

536
00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:05,479
Speaker 1: so mhich are good, but I wouldn't watch it. There

537
00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:07,320
Speaker 1: are so many things where I'm like, this is good

538
00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:10,679
Speaker 1: if you're that type of person. For example, there's a

539
00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:14,639
Speaker 1: character on a British soap, I think Credians Live or

540
00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:18,560
Speaker 1: Liz who is an a sexual white teenage girl in

541
00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:20,440
Speaker 1: the countryside, and it's like, if you are in a

542
00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:22,479
Speaker 1: sexual white teenage girl on the countryside, then that is

543
00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:24,280
Speaker 1: it for you. But I am not a white teenage

544
00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:27,520
Speaker 1: girl on the countryside. I can't relate, but I'm sure

545
00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:30,879
Speaker 1: like there are things like that, Or there's book characters,

546
00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:33,200
Speaker 1: like there's a character in Alice Osman's book love List,

547
00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:36,040
Speaker 1: which is cute if you're into like young adults, teenage

548
00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:40,360
Speaker 1: high school things. I personally don't really read that kind

549
00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:41,880
Speaker 1: of stuff, but I'm like, I've heard it's very good,

550
00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:43,960
Speaker 1: but like I don't really watch it. Or Todd from

551
00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:47,600
Speaker 1: BoJack Horseman is probably one of the more popular examples.

552
00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:50,840
Speaker 1: Again I don't watch it, but that is kind of

553
00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:53,800
Speaker 1: one of the few examples that's like an adult white guy,

554
00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:56,200
Speaker 1: I think, but like, you know, it's an adult but yeah,

555
00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:59,920
Speaker 1: they tend to just speak very I know it's overwhelming

556
00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:01,640
Speaker 1: lead white characters. It's just kind of one of the

557
00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:04,840
Speaker 1: reasons why I'm like it's good if you relate, I don't.

558
00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:08,080
Speaker 1: But I'm also at a stage of life where I

559
00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:10,800
Speaker 1: don't need it myself, so it's kind of okay. If

560
00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:13,200
Speaker 1: I don't relate, I can relate to myself, so it's fine.

561
00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:16,000
Speaker 1: But yeah, I feel like there's not many examples, but

562
00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:20,120
Speaker 1: there's definitely like things out there, but it's not something

563
00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:23,800
Speaker 1: that like personally appeals to me very much. Yeah, So

564
00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:26,400
Speaker 1: we talk about just a general shortage of like black

565
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:29,160
Speaker 1: characters that often kind of people can relate to, and

566
00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:32,560
Speaker 1: so this seems like an even larger shortage of people

567
00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:35,800
Speaker 1: who maybe identify as a sentual or romantic on the screen,

568
00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:38,240
Speaker 1: things that seems sort of like a sexual or a

569
00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:41,680
Speaker 1: romantic coded but it's usually like not in a good way.

570
00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:44,600
Speaker 1: Like if you have a character that has no interest

571
00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:47,680
Speaker 1: in romantic relationships, it's probably because they're really awkward or

572
00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:49,600
Speaker 1: they're like evil, and those are kind of like your

573
00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:52,239
Speaker 1: if our high maintenance awkward or evil, and those are

574
00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:56,680
Speaker 1: your free like components or their aliens or robots or something.

575
00:29:57,080 --> 00:29:59,200
Speaker 1: So there are kind of things out there in that sense,

576
00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:05,040
Speaker 1: but I know I don't really count that. Yeah. So

577
00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:07,480
Speaker 1: you mentioned a little earlier that it can be hard

578
00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:10,960
Speaker 1: for people to even recognize black people as a sexual

579
00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:13,680
Speaker 1: or a romantic And I would imagine for black women

580
00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:16,200
Speaker 1: this can be more complicated because it feels like they're

581
00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:20,160
Speaker 1: typically all these stereotypes about like black women in their sexuality, right,

582
00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:23,200
Speaker 1: either being just a bills or fast or you know,

583
00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:25,280
Speaker 1: all of these things. Can you talk a little bit

584
00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:27,880
Speaker 1: about that intersectionality and like what kinds of things maybe

585
00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:30,000
Speaker 1: have come up and what might make it hard for

586
00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:33,400
Speaker 1: black women to be able to identify as a sexual. Yeah,

587
00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:35,520
Speaker 1: I mean, we're probably like one of the most hyper

588
00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:40,480
Speaker 1: sexualized demographics in the world, so that in itself makes

589
00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:43,480
Speaker 1: it very hard for people to like equate a sexuality

590
00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:47,160
Speaker 1: with blackness. And I'm very sure that that was one

591
00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:49,000
Speaker 1: of the reasons why people found it very hard for

592
00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:50,800
Speaker 1: me to believe that I was a sexual in the

593
00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:53,600
Speaker 1: first place, was purely on the basis of me being

594
00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:56,240
Speaker 1: black and the kind of expectations that people already had

595
00:30:56,680 --> 00:30:59,720
Speaker 1: on how my sexuality was supposed to manifest. I'm pretty

596
00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:01,080
Speaker 1: sure that if I was like a white kid, it

597
00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:03,800
Speaker 1: would not be very hard to believe that I would

598
00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:06,160
Speaker 1: say sexual if people just did not accept it at

599
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:09,000
Speaker 1: all for me, And I think coming out to say

600
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:12,640
Speaker 1: sexual almost impossible. It also kind of makes even relating

601
00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:15,880
Speaker 1: to the way a sexuality is represented very hard because

602
00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:19,400
Speaker 1: it is very much predominantly white. The space is very white,

603
00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:24,360
Speaker 1: representation is very white. It's very much associated with whiteness. Still,

604
00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:26,880
Speaker 1: So even once you bridge that gap and come to

605
00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:28,880
Speaker 1: like your own place of self acceptance, there isn't really

606
00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:30,880
Speaker 1: that many places you can go with that because it's

607
00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:34,040
Speaker 1: not a conversation that's happening in the black community at all,

608
00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:37,480
Speaker 1: and it's not a conversation that you're really that included

609
00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:41,440
Speaker 1: in within the a sexual community either. So you're kind

610
00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:44,880
Speaker 1: of just like left in your own little bubble and

611
00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:50,440
Speaker 1: it can be a very strange one to navigate. So

612
00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:52,760
Speaker 1: are there any words of advice that you have for

613
00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:55,760
Speaker 1: somebody who may be listening to your conversation who would

614
00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:57,920
Speaker 1: be a black woman and struggling to figure out Am

615
00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:00,080
Speaker 1: I a sexual? Am I a romantic? I mean you

616
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:01,960
Speaker 1: the a borready figure it out and want to come out?

617
00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:05,600
Speaker 1: Any words of advice you would share with them? The

618
00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:07,840
Speaker 1: main thing I always say is just like understanding that

619
00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:10,440
Speaker 1: there isn't anything wrong with you and your cam live

620
00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:13,840
Speaker 1: a perfectly happy, fulfilling life while being a sexual and

621
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:17,280
Speaker 1: romantic and black, and also that like other people's reactions

622
00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:20,280
Speaker 1: to you aren't a reflection of you, and they aren't

623
00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:22,560
Speaker 1: a reflection of your sexuality, and that is a reflection

624
00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:25,560
Speaker 1: of the road ignorance most of the time. And you

625
00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:29,320
Speaker 1: shouldn't feel pressured to a certain box. I think that

626
00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:32,160
Speaker 1: there's even within the sexual community, like people feel like

627
00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:34,200
Speaker 1: they kind of have to dulve certain parts of themselves

628
00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:37,360
Speaker 1: down to be like the palatable type of a sexual person.

629
00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:39,959
Speaker 1: And outside of that, people feel like, oh, we have

630
00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:42,560
Speaker 1: to use a label, I have to describe it this way.

631
00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:45,479
Speaker 1: And you don't actually have to do anything. Do whatever

632
00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:49,560
Speaker 1: makes you feel like it's helpful for you, do whatever

633
00:32:50,360 --> 00:32:53,280
Speaker 1: makes your life easier, and don't feel like you have

634
00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:55,360
Speaker 1: to kind of go down like some big rabbit hole

635
00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:58,680
Speaker 1: of ticking boxes or fitting into other people's ideas just

636
00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:00,760
Speaker 1: to make life easier for them. You don't actually have

637
00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:03,520
Speaker 1: to do that. Thank you, I appreciate you sharing it.

638
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:07,040
Speaker 1: So you've talked a couple of times about the difficulty

639
00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:11,600
Speaker 1: and like finding support and finding community within this smaller community.

640
00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:14,640
Speaker 1: Are there any resources besides the ones that you offer

641
00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:17,160
Speaker 1: for people who may be looking for community. Are looking

642
00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:19,840
Speaker 1: to connect with other people who share similar experiences. Are

643
00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:21,800
Speaker 1: there any things that you're familiar with you want to

644
00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:25,680
Speaker 1: share in terms of finding community, that's like a quote

645
00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:29,440
Speaker 1: unquote safe space. I know that there is an instagram

646
00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:32,160
Speaker 1: called asan Grace, which is kind of specifically like it's

647
00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:34,239
Speaker 1: run by someone who's black and a sexual and they

648
00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:36,800
Speaker 1: share like black a sexuality, your latest stuff. I mean

649
00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:39,000
Speaker 1: there are places where like lots of a sexual people

650
00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:42,440
Speaker 1: like Conjugate, but I've experienced racism in those same spaces,

651
00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:45,640
Speaker 1: so I feel like it would be inappropriate to recommend them.

652
00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:47,440
Speaker 1: Like I wish I could say that there was like

653
00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:51,320
Speaker 1: a bunch of options, but there isn't really Okay, so

654
00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:53,280
Speaker 1: they can can stay connected to you and if you

655
00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:55,080
Speaker 1: find anything, I'm sure you'll share it on your own

656
00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:59,680
Speaker 1: platforms create something. Yeah, I mean I know that, like

657
00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:01,640
Speaker 1: you know of the space, like my own socials are

658
00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:03,479
Speaker 1: sort of like save space, Like I don't tolerate any

659
00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:06,440
Speaker 1: racism in mind, And sometimes people find each other through

660
00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:08,839
Speaker 1: like the comment sections of my things and stuff, so

661
00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:12,759
Speaker 1: like that's an options. Sometimes comments sections on things can't

662
00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:14,560
Speaker 1: be a great way to find people, but there isn't

663
00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:19,600
Speaker 1: like a giant like Black Inclusive Forum or anything like that,

664
00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:22,600
Speaker 1: and I have thought about doing well myself, but then

665
00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:26,080
Speaker 1: that's like a lot of additional responsibility of like managing

666
00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:29,600
Speaker 1: a whole space and making sure everyone behaves themselves right,

667
00:34:30,200 --> 00:34:34,279
Speaker 1: It's like it's too much. I'm not a teacher, so

668
00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:37,480
Speaker 1: speaking in there, where can we stay connected to you

669
00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:39,600
Speaker 1: and your work? What's your website as well as any

670
00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:42,480
Speaker 1: social media handles you like to share. My website is

671
00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:44,560
Speaker 1: yas and ben dot co dot uk. I mean, if

672
00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:46,440
Speaker 1: you just type in Yasmine ben Wro on Google, I'm

673
00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:49,759
Speaker 1: sure most of my social platforms will pop up. Instagram

674
00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:53,160
Speaker 1: is at the yasmin benwa and twitters at the same thing,

675
00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:55,800
Speaker 1: and those ones are both verified. I have a TikTok

676
00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:57,600
Speaker 1: that I don't use, a YouTube that I don't use,

677
00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:00,720
Speaker 1: So those are the ones that like up their mind,

678
00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:03,160
Speaker 1: but I don't really use them. See on Twitter and

679
00:35:03,239 --> 00:35:07,000
Speaker 1: Instagram and yeah on my website propping the bus places

680
00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:09,759
Speaker 1: where you can find me perfect well, thank you so

681
00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:12,319
Speaker 1: much for sharing with us today, gays when I appreciate it.

682
00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:17,480
Speaker 1: Thank you for having me. I'm so glad you as

683
00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:19,920
Speaker 1: One was able to share her expertise with us today

684
00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:22,680
Speaker 1: to learn more about her and her work. Be sure

685
00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:25,000
Speaker 1: to visit the show notes at Therapy for Black Girls

686
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:28,279
Speaker 1: dot com slash session to sixty two, and be sure

687
00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:30,160
Speaker 1: to text two of your girls and tell them to

688
00:35:30,239 --> 00:35:33,560
Speaker 1: check out the episode right now. If you're looking for

689
00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:36,160
Speaker 1: a therapist in your area, be sure to check out

690
00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:39,000
Speaker 1: our therapist directory at Therapy for Black Girls dot com

691
00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:42,319
Speaker 1: slash directory. And if you want to continue digging into

692
00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:44,920
Speaker 1: this topic or just be in community with other sisters,

693
00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:47,360
Speaker 1: come on over and join us in the Sister Circle.

694
00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:50,160
Speaker 1: It's our cozy corner of the Internet design just for

695
00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:53,400
Speaker 1: black women. You can join us at community that Therapy

696
00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:57,040
Speaker 1: for Black Girls dot com. This episode was produced by

697
00:35:57,080 --> 00:36:00,080
Speaker 1: Freda Lucas and Alice Ellis and editing was done and

698
00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:02,920
Speaker 1: by Dennis and Bradford. Thank you all so much for

699
00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:05,880
Speaker 1: joining me again this week. I look forward to continuing

700
00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:09,479
Speaker 1: this conversation with you all real soon. Take it care