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Speaker 1: Pushkin.

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Speaker 2: Of all the groundbreaking musicians to come out of the sixties,

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Speaker 2: few were as engaged socially and politically as Joan Biaz.

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Speaker 2: A lifelong proponent of nonviolent activism, Joan marched with doctor

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Speaker 2: Martin Luther King Junior and has continued to advocate for

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Speaker 2: nonviolent civil disobedience ever since. With the release of her

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Speaker 2: debut album in nineteen sixty, Joan Bayez became the pre

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Speaker 2: eminent female folkye. With just her exquisite soprano and her guitar,

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Speaker 2: she reworked classic American folk songs and eventually wrote songs

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Speaker 2: that helped fuel her activism. By the time she helped

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Speaker 2: launch Bob Dylan's career by inviting him on stage with

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Speaker 2: her in the early sixties, Joan was already an international sensation.

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Speaker 2: In twenty nineteen, after a career that spanned nearly six decades,

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Speaker 2: Joan announced she was no longer performing live. In recent years,

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Speaker 2: she's turned her creative attention to visual art. Her new

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Speaker 2: book of drawings, titled Am I Pretty When I Fly,

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Speaker 2: features sketches rooted in humor, freedom, and sorrow, but in

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Speaker 2: classic Joan by A style of course. Her drawings defy convention,

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Speaker 2: they were all drawn upside down. On today's episode, you'll

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Speaker 2: hear a live conversation I had with Joan Baez at

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Speaker 2: the Chicago Humanities Festival in May. Joan spoke about the

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Speaker 2: emotional catharsis she finds in drawing. She also talked about

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Speaker 2: juggling music and activism as a young artist, and what

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Speaker 2: happened when she handed over access to her personal storage

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Speaker 2: unit to a group of documentary filmmakers. Also, despite giving

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Speaker 2: up live performance, she took a moment to serenade the

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Speaker 2: crowd all with her beautiful, beloved voice. This is broken

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Speaker 2: record liner notes for the digital age. I'm justin Ritchman.

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Speaker 2: Here's my conversation with the great Joan Bias. Thank you

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Speaker 2: so much for making this wonderful book of your drawings.

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Speaker 2: They're amazing and I can't wait to get into a

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Speaker 2: lot of them.

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Speaker 1: But before we get into that, it's amazing.

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Speaker 2: We're both from California, we both flew here to Chicago

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Speaker 2: to do this, and it feels very apt because in

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Speaker 2: a lot of ways, this.

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Speaker 1: Is kind of where you started it in show business.

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Speaker 3: Right was certainly this atmosphere of folk folk music, folk folks,

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Speaker 3: and that was mine was mainly in Cambridge, and people

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Speaker 3: associate me with the village, but I was only there

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Speaker 3: a couple of times. It was mainly Cambridge and the

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Speaker 3: folks scene there, Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Well, which is where you would have gotten into music.

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Speaker 2: But then the Gate of Horn here in Chicago really

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Speaker 2: feels like Albert Grossman's club.

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Speaker 3: Oh my god. That was a big deal for me

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Speaker 3: because I was eighteen or nineteen and I was scared

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Speaker 3: to death, and also I was afraid that if I

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Speaker 3: sang somewhere where they were still booze, I would go

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Speaker 3: to hell. I mean literally, that's where I was at

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Speaker 3: that point in my life. And I heard Albert grosswim

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Speaker 3: trying to convince my parents that I should come and

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Speaker 3: sing at the Gate of Horn, and I heard one

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Speaker 3: of them say, oh, she'll never do it, she's too scared.

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Speaker 3: So immediately I said, Okay, I'm going yeah, and I did.

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Speaker 3: In two or three weeks or something like that. I

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Speaker 3: opened for Bob Gibson at the Gate of.

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Speaker 2: Horn, legendary place, and a young Roger McGuinn was lurking around,

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Speaker 2: and who was born and raised here, and I can't

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Speaker 2: imagine what that must.

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Speaker 1: Have looked like.

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Speaker 2: That also led to you performing at the inaugural Newport

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Speaker 2: Folk Festival, right, isn't it is the.

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Speaker 3: First one up until then it had been jazz festival,

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Speaker 3: just a jazz festival. And like the little club where

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Speaker 3: I sang, Club forty seven in Cambridge, it had been

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Speaker 3: a jazz club for years. These two women ran it

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Speaker 3: and then they saw the writing on the wall and

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Speaker 3: start putting folk music in. And I was the first artist,

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Speaker 3: and I got paid ten dollars a night. I was

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Speaker 3: rich broad.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 3: And then and then pretty soon it was two nights

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Speaker 3: a week and fifteen dollars a night. And my family says,

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Speaker 3: I would come home with this money and I'd throw

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Speaker 3: it over. We had a balcony and I'd hurl it

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Speaker 3: over the balcony. I thought everybody would like that so much,

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Speaker 3: and they all hated me for it.

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Speaker 1: You must what was your parents?

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Speaker 2: Your parents didn't think you would actually settle into this

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Speaker 2: lifestyle or to this career as a but what was

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Speaker 2: the impression of you actually sort of starting to become actual,

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Speaker 2: like a working musician.

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Speaker 3: I have to give my father credit. He didn't like

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Speaker 3: the whole folk music idea for me, say ass, you know,

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Speaker 3: talk about your family. They want to make sure you're

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Speaker 3: on a straight and arrow and going to make money

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Speaker 3: or get married or whatever's appropriate. But after he was

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Speaker 3: the one who took me into Harvard Square. I took

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Speaker 3: the way he had three daughters and his wife into

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Speaker 3: Harvard Square because he'd seen this phenomenon of folk clubs.

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Speaker 3: And they were filled with smoke and Harvard students playing

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Speaker 3: chess and reading and you know, being very academic and

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Speaker 3: philosophical and cool. And I saw a young man playing

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Speaker 3: I think it was guitar or some string instrument under

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Speaker 3: his yellow light, and he was singing Pleasure No More.

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Speaker 3: And it was over for me. I mean, that's all

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Speaker 3: I was interested in ever after. That was being there,

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Speaker 3: got myself a guitar, copied everybody, stole everything they ever did.

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Speaker 3: And my mother was my greatest fan. I mean, if

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Speaker 3: I'd stayed in the crib and just played with beads

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Speaker 3: the rest of my life, she was to have the

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Speaker 3: best bead player you ever. But my dad realized that

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Speaker 3: this was something real and he appreciated it.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 2: I was surprised going through the book because it seems

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Speaker 2: to me, you've lived a relatively I should not even

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Speaker 2: relatively like a very charmed life. And I was surprised

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Speaker 2: to see the amount of under the heading of innocence,

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Speaker 2: and early in the book, the amount of sort of

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Speaker 2: angst that comes from the your drawing of children.

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Speaker 3: You know, I was a Mexican down near the border

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Speaker 3: in southern California, which is where you know an image

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Speaker 3: like middle school who had come from, and so I

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Speaker 3: wasn't an outsider and I was those and our family

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Speaker 3: moved all the time, so it was a new school.

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Speaker 3: I was the outsider. There's a picture in there of

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Speaker 3: a little girl at the door of teacher saying, who

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Speaker 3: wants to sit next to Waneda? Well, nobody's going to

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Speaker 3: want to sit next to one Eita. It was a

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Speaker 3: terrible way to say it. And so I mean, I

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Speaker 3: appear to myself in these drawings a lot. I didn't

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Speaker 3: know that ahead of time, because I don't know what's

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Speaker 3: going to come out on that page when I started drawing.

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Speaker 3: But I see me in a lot of it, and

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Speaker 3: there was we were marginal our family I was. My

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Speaker 3: father was born in Mexico, and I look Mexican didn't

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Speaker 3: so they didn't have as much trouble. But that's where

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Speaker 3: that feeling marginal came from.

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Speaker 1: It appears you're.

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Speaker 2: The way you think about children, maybe more largely, if

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Speaker 2: not just your own childhood, is that there's this interaction

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Speaker 2: with adults, that is, there's a tense interaction if anything.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know what to say about that. Kids

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Speaker 3: trying to communicate with anybody, uncertainly with their parents and

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Speaker 3: that division. And you know when a good parent keeps

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Speaker 3: trying to find a way to their kid, often by listening.

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Speaker 3: But we're it's all such bad listeners, you know, that's

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Speaker 3: really what the kid wants. And the little kid there

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Speaker 3: is basically saying, Mom, you know who I exist. I'm

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Speaker 3: here and mom's busy hanging out the launrday and she's

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Speaker 3: not paying any attention and all, No, that is not

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Speaker 3: my mom.

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Speaker 2: Where do these I know you don't know exactly where

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Speaker 2: these come from, but maybe we can start with all

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Speaker 2: of the drawings in the book come from drawing upside down.

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Speaker 1: How did that start?

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Speaker 3: I'm thinking that it started we were talking about me

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Speaker 3: finding refuge for myself from whatever was bothering me, and

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Speaker 3: whatever happened in the process of a combination of that

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Speaker 3: and really not being bored with school. I mean I

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Speaker 3: was afraid of but I was also just board stiff,

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Speaker 3: and so I started writing with my left hand. Well,

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Speaker 3: that was interesting, And then I started drawing backwards. That

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Speaker 3: was interesting. I wrote the entire Greek alphabet backwards, and

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Speaker 3: you know now memorized it backwords. If that gives you

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Speaker 3: any idea of how important that math close was to me,

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Speaker 3: that's how important it was to me. And then I

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Speaker 3: just look at it as a sort of a graduation

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Speaker 3: when I moved into drawing, Drawing upside down and putting

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Speaker 3: the labels and the processes is not difficult. It's just confusing.

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Speaker 3: If I'm sitting here and I'm drawing, you're seeing it

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Speaker 3: right side up. I'm seeing it upside down. Often I

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Speaker 3: don't know what it's going to be at all. Just

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Speaker 3: start making these lines around the page, and then it

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Speaker 3: begins to develop. And sometimes I think, oh, I get it.

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Speaker 3: That's the guy and that's the dog. And then we'll

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Speaker 3: develop from there, and then I'll turn it back, I

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Speaker 3: look at it and see if there's something to fill

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Speaker 3: in with, and or a phrase will come to my mind.

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Speaker 3: That's the magic of it that I might have even

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Speaker 3: started with one idea, but when I turn it around, saying, oh,

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Speaker 3: that's not what it's saying to me, It's saying something different.

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Speaker 3: And then I turn it back and I write it

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Speaker 3: upside down right.

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Speaker 1: When you add the phrase to the drawings.

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Speaker 2: At that point, are you are you analyzing where this

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Speaker 2: might have come from within you? Or is it really

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Speaker 2: then also just looking at it almost as if anyone

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Speaker 2: could have drawn it and seeing.

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Speaker 3: What that's nice? Yeah, you know, I just don't analyze

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Speaker 3: period any of this stuff. I'm sure I analyze some things,

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Speaker 3: but it would kind of, my opinion, probably ruin it

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Speaker 3: a little if I knew exactly, you know, the dynamics

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Speaker 3: of Stephen Colbert said, Oh, do you stand on your

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Speaker 3: head to do these drawings? I said, sort of, picture

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Speaker 3: me dangling off a jungle gym during the drawing stufside down.

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Speaker 2: Do you find yourself revising any of the writings that

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Speaker 2: you put above it, any.

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Speaker 3: Of the Oh good question. Once it's written down, I

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Speaker 3: can't because it's an ink. Sometimes I look at it

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Speaker 3: and I think, oh, it should have said you know,

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Speaker 3: but it's written, so I can't change it.

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Speaker 2: Sure, we could find a way for you to do

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Speaker 2: that and preserve the integrity of the drawing, but that

196
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Speaker 2: would be less fun. I guess when do you find

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Speaker 2: yourself drawing upside down versus right side up? Is there

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Speaker 2: a reason that you drop side down?

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Speaker 1: Like, is it when you feel stuck or no?

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Speaker 3: No, it's just fun. But I draw right side up

201
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Speaker 3: as well, you know, mostly those sketch little things. And

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Speaker 3: then I drew when I was in junior high in

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Speaker 3: high school, and I drew my boyfriends, and I drew

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Speaker 3: James Dean, and I charged five dollars for the drawings.

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Speaker 3: But if you go back way far, and this is

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Speaker 3: in the introduction to the book, but I would draw

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Speaker 3: Bambi and Thumper from my little porcelain guys, you know.

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Speaker 3: And then I I charged three pennies for each one.

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Speaker 3: And that little place where you put your pencil inside

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Speaker 3: the wooden desk and I would have pennies in it.

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Speaker 2: That's amazing in terms of the creativity that goes into

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Speaker 2: your drawings or the way you approach it, the sort

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Speaker 2: of non analyzing, the wanting to sort of do it

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Speaker 2: upside down to ensure that it's coming from like a

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Speaker 2: real sort of subconscious place. Was that also the case

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Speaker 2: with your music.

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Speaker 3: In the way that it came naturally and untrained. Then

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Speaker 3: it's very much the same. I mean, following that guy

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Speaker 3: I saw in the coffee shop. It was just my life,

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Speaker 3: you know. I mean I would fall asleep playing the

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Speaker 3: guitar and the guitars on my chest, and I would

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Speaker 3: wake up and I'd go on playing. You know, I

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Speaker 3: didn't even didn't even move. It was just it was

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Speaker 3: all I did. I was immersed. Then I get in

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Speaker 3: the project, and I was pretty much immersed in this

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Speaker 3: project while we were working on it. You know, I

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Speaker 3: didn't really think about much else. I just wanted to

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Speaker 3: put these drawings in the right place and categorize them

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Speaker 3: and put them in a book.

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Speaker 2: The drawings that are in the book, when did these happen?

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Speaker 2: Are these older drawings newer?

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Speaker 3: They went from maybe ten or twelve years ago up

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Speaker 3: until now. And that's how come I'd find they made

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Speaker 3: little bunches around the house. And I have found more

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Speaker 3: since the book. You know, if I was little stash

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Speaker 3: with a rubber band about, I think, oh goodie. You

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Speaker 3: know some other insanity, and it is.

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Speaker 2: Do you find Catharsis in the emotion of the drawings,

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Speaker 2: or do you find emotion I guess in.

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Speaker 3: The Yeah, you know, sometimes I've cried the ones of

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Speaker 3: the animals, you know, and that old horse is being

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Speaker 3: pushed along and the guy is saying, you know, come on,

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Speaker 3: life is long, but you're you know, he's empathetic with

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Speaker 3: the horse, and the horse looks tired, and for me,

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Speaker 3: it brings up, you know, every awful movie that's had

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Speaker 3: horses hurt in it. So I get very moved by

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Speaker 3: this stuff. But I can't pretend that it's myself who

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Speaker 3: invented it. It's coming from somewhere else. So I can

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Speaker 3: say that this is how it made me feel or

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Speaker 3: you know, happy or sad or deep?

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Speaker 1: Or do you cry often? Would you say? Just in life?

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Speaker 1: Are you a crier?

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Speaker 3: Oh? Not particularly? I probably was when I was younger.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so there is something about the quiet moments of

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Speaker 2: turning a piece of paper upside down.

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Speaker 3: And doesn't everybody, no, you know, my fon other scientists,

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Speaker 3: very academic, you know, professorial, and he couldn't figure this out.

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Speaker 3: He said, but I don't understand, And I said, you

259
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Speaker 3: probably shouldn't try. He said, but what are you doing?

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Speaker 3: And how does that work? You know, I said, Papa,

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Speaker 3: just you know, try it, try it. I took him

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Speaker 3: one time to one of those places where you paint

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Speaker 3: them pottery, do your own. He reluctantly came with me.

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Speaker 3: I said, come on, you do one of these. Oh

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Speaker 3: I don't know how. I said, you don't have to

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Speaker 3: know how. You got a nice, big bull like that,

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Speaker 3: got a bunch of colors, and he was going like,

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Speaker 3: he said, oh, I hate it. Oh it's awful. This

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Speaker 3: looks horrible. I said, Papa's is wonderful. But he couldn't

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Speaker 3: explain it. So it was he was having hard time

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Speaker 3: with it.

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Speaker 2: Was he sort of the odd person out in the family,

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Speaker 2: it feels, I mean, you and your sister clearly had

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Speaker 2: an artistic sensibility.

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Speaker 1: Seems like your mother.

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Speaker 3: Guy, Yeah, I mean he has three daughters and a

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Speaker 3: wife who had no left nothing there, nothing, not even

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Speaker 3: a little p shape thing. And he my father's passionate

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Speaker 3: about standing waves, and he would talk about all the time.

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Speaker 3: We didn't know what he was talking about. And a

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Speaker 3: bunch of family went to one of his speeches and

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Speaker 3: he thought, you know, support him, and he started talking

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Speaker 3: about standing waves and he says, can anybody here tell

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Speaker 3: me what a standing wave is? And my aunt got

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Speaker 3: up and went like this, if that explains anything.

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Speaker 1: To this day, do we know what standing waves are?

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Speaker 3: Not? Really?

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Speaker 2: I guess I'll look that one up. I would love

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Speaker 2: to go to the image. I think it's Image five.

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Speaker 3: She's pregnant and he is not the dad who got

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Speaker 3: her pregnant. He's trying to say, you don't worry, honey,

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Speaker 3: I understand, let me tell your mom, which might mean

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Speaker 3: we're not going to say anything and I'll protect you

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Speaker 3: from that, or it means let me break that to

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Speaker 3: your mom. I think that's what that's about. And it's

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Speaker 3: just very, very emotional.

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Speaker 1: These works are are highly emotional.

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Speaker 3: I've been you can call them works. I love that

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Speaker 3: sounds so official, isn't it.

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Speaker 1: Piece you are, You're Joan Bias. Your life is in

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Speaker 1: your existence.

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Speaker 3: And it wasn't this stuff though it was your work.

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Speaker 2: I love that you know these I mean, you're you're

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Speaker 2: very self deprecating, and I can appreciate that about you.

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Speaker 2: I was reading something about your documentary and in it

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Speaker 2: you say that the only great song you wrote not

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Speaker 2: in the documentary, but in this little piece about the documentary,

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Speaker 2: you tell the interviewer the only great song you ever

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Speaker 2: wrote was Diamonds and Rust, which it's a great.

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Speaker 1: Song, but that's not true.

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Speaker 3: It's not true.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it is a great song, but it's not true,

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Speaker 1: you know, I mean thank you David's song.

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Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, you know. That only means that I

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Speaker 3: think only one of my songs has a universality that

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Speaker 3: it's it just catches in a different way and it's

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Speaker 3: bigger than itself. No, I think I've written a lot

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Speaker 3: of good songs, but I do think that one's head

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Speaker 3: and shoulders. Suppose the one's under it? What do I know?

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Speaker 2: And that has to do with how you perceive people

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Speaker 2: interact with the song.

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Speaker 3: I guess probably you're right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, there's other songs. I mean, you've written so

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Speaker 2: many gorgeous songs.

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Speaker 3: Thank you.

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Speaker 2: I really I almost wish you had written more gorgeous songs,

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Speaker 2: or more songs in general that would then be gorgeous.

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Speaker 3: You know, they picked the right guy.

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Speaker 2: Hard questions are coming, it's just bettering. Yeah, okay, but

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Speaker 2: your documentary. I'm just wondering about this period of your

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Speaker 2: life post touring. You've wrapped up that part of your life,

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Speaker 2: which was many decades long.

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Speaker 3: You were barely a spark in your mother's eyes.

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Speaker 2: Neither my parents were born life. Now she's not gonna

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Speaker 2: like me go back to butter in you this part

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Speaker 2: of your life though, post touring, where has it left

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Speaker 2: you with? Processing both your life the things that have happened.

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Speaker 2: And there's a documentary that you made with some friends

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Speaker 2: that would be coming out that sounds incredibly personal.

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Speaker 3: It is it is, and I sort of figure out

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Speaker 3: I haven't got anything to lose, really seriously, and my

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Speaker 3: family is all gone. Anybody who could have been hurt

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Speaker 3: or confused or whatever. I didn't do that while they

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Speaker 3: were alive. And it's very personal. And the women who

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Speaker 3: directed it, one of them is a very close friend.

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Speaker 3: And that's why it was possible, because I just held

347
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Speaker 3: my nose and took a deep dive and said, because

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Speaker 3: I wouldn't have control, they would have control. So I

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Speaker 3: had to have that faith. And the film was about

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Speaker 3: the last tour. That's kind of the theme of it,

351
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Speaker 3: the last tour. And then I cut them loose in

352
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Speaker 3: my storage unit. I'd never been in the storage unit.

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Speaker 3: I thought storage units has things like old lamps, you know,

354
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Speaker 3: And this thing had a lifelong thing of tapes of stuff.

355
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Speaker 3: When I was twenty two, and I would speak and

356
00:19:56,196 --> 00:19:58,516
Speaker 3: send it to my parents in place of a letter

357
00:19:59,396 --> 00:20:03,316
Speaker 3: and write letters. And here's me at twenty two saying, Oh, Mummy,

358
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Speaker 3: I'm so excited because tomorrow I get to meet doctor

359
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Speaker 3: Martin Luther King and we'll sing it this so and

360
00:20:08,036 --> 00:20:11,796
Speaker 3: so Baptist. So here's these kids. So we don't have

361
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Speaker 3: me explaining what it was like, we have you know,

362
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Speaker 3: voice of me. Then.

363
00:20:17,516 --> 00:20:27,516
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's also you've been open in the past about

364
00:20:28,076 --> 00:20:31,876
Speaker 2: going to therapy, but included I've not seen it, but

365
00:20:31,916 --> 00:20:34,956
Speaker 2: as I understand included, there's also you've recorded in the past.

366
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Speaker 2: You've recorded some of your therapy sessions, and some of

367
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Speaker 2: those tapes are in there.

368
00:20:38,916 --> 00:20:41,956
Speaker 3: Yeah, those are kind of scary, But I mean I

369
00:20:41,996 --> 00:20:44,396
Speaker 3: didn't see this stuff till it's done. That's what they do.

370
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Speaker 3: They say, oh, we'll let you see towards the end.

371
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Speaker 3: So two days before it's towards the end, you're looking

372
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Speaker 3: to say, ah, and there's nothing I can do. So

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Speaker 3: it was really just faith.

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Speaker 2: You didn't sift through any of that with them. Have

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Speaker 2: you since since it was screened for you, have you.

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Speaker 3: Had any second thoughts?

377
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Speaker 1: Yes?

378
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Speaker 3: There, yes, too late. There are a couple of things.

379
00:21:08,836 --> 00:21:10,756
Speaker 3: I thought, Oh, oh, I wish they hadn't put that in,

380
00:21:11,396 --> 00:21:14,236
Speaker 3: but you know, I can see that it adds to

381
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Speaker 3: the quality of the film.

382
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Speaker 2: We'll be back with more of my conversation with Joan

383
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Speaker 2: Biez in just a sec. We're back with my conversation

384
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Speaker 2: with Joan Biaz. You mentioned Doctor King earlier. When did

385
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Speaker 2: you first meet Doctor King?

386
00:21:33,196 --> 00:21:35,436
Speaker 3: You know, I don't remember the first actual meeting. I

387
00:21:35,516 --> 00:21:39,076
Speaker 3: remember when I saw him, which was a life changing event.

388
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Speaker 3: And I was a gathering of high school students put

389
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Speaker 3: on by the American Friends Service Committee, and they were

390
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Speaker 3: from all over the country and we were discussed politics

391
00:21:48,956 --> 00:21:52,156
Speaker 3: and nonviolence and that, and each year they would do

392
00:21:52,276 --> 00:21:54,596
Speaker 3: this and they'd have a speaker in the year I went,

393
00:21:54,996 --> 00:21:58,316
Speaker 3: so I was sixteen. It was doctor King and he

394
00:21:58,476 --> 00:22:01,356
Speaker 3: was talking about I can't even say it, I'm getting tire.

395
00:22:01,396 --> 00:22:04,276
Speaker 3: He was talking about the bus boycott and I started

396
00:22:04,316 --> 00:22:06,636
Speaker 3: to cry and I couldn't stop because he was doing

397
00:22:06,756 --> 00:22:10,036
Speaker 3: what we've been talking about and studying. And there was

398
00:22:10,116 --> 00:22:14,236
Speaker 3: this guy I was twenty nine or something, twenty six.

399
00:22:14,316 --> 00:22:16,916
Speaker 3: If I was sixteen, was twenty six, and he was

400
00:22:17,796 --> 00:22:22,116
Speaker 3: just doing and engaged and with people and taking the risks.

401
00:22:22,356 --> 00:22:25,836
Speaker 3: The risk is always to me, it's the point at

402
00:22:25,876 --> 00:22:29,356
Speaker 3: which there will be no social change worth talking about

403
00:22:29,476 --> 00:22:38,196
Speaker 3: until some people are willing to take a risk. That's

404
00:22:38,276 --> 00:22:41,596
Speaker 3: easier said than done, you know, But that's when I

405
00:22:41,676 --> 00:22:43,716
Speaker 3: mean they were taking the risk, every single one of

406
00:22:43,756 --> 00:22:45,836
Speaker 3: those folk, you know, including doctor King.

407
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Speaker 2: As you move on into your career, I mean, obviously

408
00:22:50,356 --> 00:22:54,436
Speaker 2: I've always wondered did your activism feel separate from your

409
00:22:54,516 --> 00:22:58,516
Speaker 2: music or did your music compel your activism both.

410
00:22:59,076 --> 00:23:03,596
Speaker 3: When I was thirteen, I had an ukulele and I

411
00:23:03,716 --> 00:23:06,516
Speaker 3: started play and not what I remember learning, but that

412
00:23:06,636 --> 00:23:09,596
Speaker 3: ukulele was a lot of different songs, lot of rhythm

413
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Speaker 3: and blues because that's what I loved, and they had

414
00:23:11,396 --> 00:23:14,356
Speaker 3: only four chords max. And then I learned emmat till

415
00:23:15,076 --> 00:23:17,996
Speaker 3: and I realized that how connected I was to that.

416
00:23:18,116 --> 00:23:23,796
Speaker 3: I mean, parents are Quakers, so that's pacifism, nonviolence activism,

417
00:23:24,716 --> 00:23:27,316
Speaker 3: and so I to me this, you know, the dots

418
00:23:27,356 --> 00:23:30,476
Speaker 3: began to connect. And then when I was fifteen, I

419
00:23:30,596 --> 00:23:34,996
Speaker 3: stayed in school during you're supposed to duck and cover

420
00:23:35,476 --> 00:23:37,276
Speaker 3: and the Russians are going to send a missile over

421
00:23:37,556 --> 00:23:39,596
Speaker 3: was not so out of the question. Now it was

422
00:23:39,636 --> 00:23:41,396
Speaker 3: going to blow up my high school. I thought, this

423
00:23:41,556 --> 00:23:45,076
Speaker 3: is so dumb, you know, and the kids are doing

424
00:23:45,116 --> 00:23:46,996
Speaker 3: and they're going to go home and the siren goes off.

425
00:23:46,996 --> 00:23:48,236
Speaker 3: They're going to run home or they're going to have

426
00:23:48,316 --> 00:23:51,076
Speaker 3: bomb parties and there's swimming pools, and I thought, I'm

427
00:23:51,076 --> 00:23:53,836
Speaker 3: going to stay in school to to you know, just

428
00:23:54,236 --> 00:23:58,596
Speaker 3: resist it. And so I did. And that was purely political.

429
00:23:58,836 --> 00:24:01,156
Speaker 3: That had no music, you know, involved with it at

430
00:24:01,156 --> 00:24:04,996
Speaker 3: that moment. So that age was I was really waking

431
00:24:05,116 --> 00:24:06,676
Speaker 3: up to activism.

432
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Speaker 2: This is why doctor King phellis that you're revelation. Sorry

433
00:24:09,796 --> 00:24:12,636
Speaker 2: now I'm going back, but your parents are Quakers. And

434
00:24:12,716 --> 00:24:18,116
Speaker 2: then you're seeing doctor King, who essentially was schooled in nonviolent,

435
00:24:18,356 --> 00:24:21,916
Speaker 2: non violent activism from Baird Rustin, who was a Quaker.

436
00:24:22,036 --> 00:24:25,196
Speaker 2: So of course that must have really really resonated.

437
00:24:25,836 --> 00:24:30,356
Speaker 3: Yeah, it all resonated. Bayard was an extraordinary man, you know,

438
00:24:31,116 --> 00:24:36,756
Speaker 3: behind the scenes because he was so sensitive. They didn't

439
00:24:36,756 --> 00:24:40,236
Speaker 3: want his homosexuality to ruin anything in the public perception

440
00:24:40,396 --> 00:24:44,916
Speaker 3: of the movement. And the guy was a massive force

441
00:24:45,196 --> 00:24:47,396
Speaker 3: behind Doctor King and behind all of us.

442
00:24:48,356 --> 00:24:50,556
Speaker 2: Really, I don't think any of that would have happened

443
00:24:50,636 --> 00:24:55,596
Speaker 2: without Bayard. His philosophies underpinned almost all of that work,

444
00:24:55,716 --> 00:25:00,556
Speaker 2: Doctor King, Ralph, Ralph Abernathy, all of them we're doing. Yeah,

445
00:25:01,156 --> 00:25:05,516
Speaker 2: how was it toggling between the glamour you could say,

446
00:25:05,796 --> 00:25:10,436
Speaker 2: of music and you know, and you're in two worlds.

447
00:25:10,476 --> 00:25:14,316
Speaker 2: You're dealing with luminaries and music, you're dealing with luminaries

448
00:25:14,356 --> 00:25:17,436
Speaker 2: and sort of public life, and how would you toggle

449
00:25:17,516 --> 00:25:18,436
Speaker 2: between those two things?

450
00:25:19,596 --> 00:25:19,716
Speaker 5: You know?

451
00:25:19,796 --> 00:25:23,196
Speaker 3: I kind of didn't. My battle was with not wanting

452
00:25:23,276 --> 00:25:26,196
Speaker 3: to be commercial, you know, and I thought that was, well,

453
00:25:26,236 --> 00:25:28,076
Speaker 3: we're going back to I'd go to hell. You know

454
00:25:28,676 --> 00:25:30,556
Speaker 3: if I sang in a place that had booze in it,

455
00:25:31,316 --> 00:25:34,916
Speaker 3: that you becoming commercial was a really really bad thing

456
00:25:34,996 --> 00:25:37,876
Speaker 3: for me. And I don't know where I do that line,

457
00:25:37,996 --> 00:25:40,436
Speaker 3: but I mean, for instance, the stage had to be

458
00:25:40,756 --> 00:25:44,836
Speaker 3: black with nothing on it, no flowers, no flags, And

459
00:25:44,956 --> 00:25:47,196
Speaker 3: I thought, well, this is really simple for people. They

460
00:25:47,236 --> 00:25:50,436
Speaker 3: said I was impossible because they set up these great

461
00:25:50,636 --> 00:25:53,556
Speaker 3: sets under TV, and I say, strike everything, you know

462
00:25:53,596 --> 00:25:57,796
Speaker 3: all here. You know, I missed perfectly folk whatever, and

463
00:25:58,196 --> 00:26:00,956
Speaker 3: really afraid to veer from that that I was doing

464
00:26:01,036 --> 00:26:01,876
Speaker 3: something really.

465
00:26:01,756 --> 00:26:04,676
Speaker 2: Bad, almost like the way the gospel artists might have thought,

466
00:26:04,716 --> 00:26:07,076
Speaker 2: or like a Ray Charles might have thought about secular

467
00:26:07,196 --> 00:26:08,796
Speaker 2: music versus gospel.

468
00:26:09,436 --> 00:26:09,596
Speaker 4: Yeah.

469
00:26:09,676 --> 00:26:11,396
Speaker 3: No, it's very similar to that level of.

470
00:26:11,636 --> 00:26:15,556
Speaker 1: Yeah, dedication to like a higher cause.

471
00:26:15,556 --> 00:26:18,516
Speaker 3: And that level of silliness. I mean, you know, I

472
00:26:18,596 --> 00:26:21,116
Speaker 3: didn't know that at the time, but I was over

473
00:26:21,236 --> 00:26:24,476
Speaker 3: I overdid it at every turn, you know. I remember

474
00:26:24,556 --> 00:26:28,796
Speaker 3: one time I decided, no more limousines for me. This

475
00:26:28,956 --> 00:26:32,116
Speaker 3: is not right, this is not what everybody does. They

476
00:26:32,196 --> 00:26:35,756
Speaker 3: have normal cars. So I stuck at that for about

477
00:26:35,796 --> 00:26:38,996
Speaker 3: two weeks, and then somebody picked me up this battered

478
00:26:39,036 --> 00:26:43,196
Speaker 3: old Volkswagen bus, and it was so uncomfortable. Oh screw it,

479
00:26:43,316 --> 00:26:45,996
Speaker 3: you know, bring on the limousines and the red carpet.

480
00:26:48,556 --> 00:26:54,196
Speaker 2: Don't blame you, don't blame you. Yesterday I landed found

481
00:26:54,196 --> 00:26:58,436
Speaker 2: out Tina Turner passed away, and I was just curious

482
00:26:58,436 --> 00:27:00,836
Speaker 2: if you, like, when or how or if you guys

483
00:27:00,916 --> 00:27:02,236
Speaker 2: had crossed paths.

484
00:27:02,836 --> 00:27:07,756
Speaker 3: My great Tina stories when my career was tanking. She

485
00:27:07,996 --> 00:27:10,316
Speaker 3: was just coming back up her second round, you know,

486
00:27:10,676 --> 00:27:14,276
Speaker 3: as a lioness, and she yeah. And so I met

487
00:27:14,316 --> 00:27:18,196
Speaker 3: her in Germany and they were celebrating her in her success,

488
00:27:19,356 --> 00:27:22,676
Speaker 3: and somebody asked her how she felt about all this.

489
00:27:22,836 --> 00:27:24,476
Speaker 3: She said, I'm just so happy to be read ike,

490
00:27:24,636 --> 00:27:28,876
Speaker 3: I don't care about the rest. And then, you know,

491
00:27:28,956 --> 00:27:30,996
Speaker 3: she was really sweet with me. She realized that I

492
00:27:31,156 --> 00:27:33,596
Speaker 3: was in a pickle, you know, and she came over

493
00:27:33,636 --> 00:27:36,316
Speaker 3: and I said, what should I do? She said, girlfriend,

494
00:27:36,556 --> 00:27:39,436
Speaker 3: get a wig first of all, you know y'all need

495
00:27:39,476 --> 00:27:41,716
Speaker 3: a wig. And I said, good. Is that all I need?

496
00:27:41,876 --> 00:27:42,076
Speaker 2: You know?

497
00:27:43,236 --> 00:27:45,236
Speaker 3: And then we were on the same TV show together

498
00:27:46,076 --> 00:27:50,676
Speaker 3: and I saw her performance. She performed steel Claw. Do

499
00:27:50,676 --> 00:27:53,476
Speaker 3: you ever hear that song? It is as ferocious and

500
00:27:54,476 --> 00:27:58,476
Speaker 3: evil and she's perfect for it. And she came off

501
00:27:58,556 --> 00:28:00,836
Speaker 3: the stage and I said, Tina, your mother made it

502
00:28:00,916 --> 00:28:05,436
Speaker 3: with a scorpion. And I meant it as a compliment

503
00:28:05,516 --> 00:28:06,836
Speaker 3: and she took it as a compliment.

504
00:28:08,156 --> 00:28:11,436
Speaker 2: That is the most acciate description of a Tina Turner

505
00:28:11,516 --> 00:28:13,276
Speaker 2: performance I have ever heard.

506
00:28:14,076 --> 00:28:14,956
Speaker 1: Was that TV show? Was it?

507
00:28:15,036 --> 00:28:16,916
Speaker 2: I didn't realize that there was a sequel to The

508
00:28:17,076 --> 00:28:20,356
Speaker 2: Tammy Show in sixty six, the Big T and T Show,

509
00:28:21,116 --> 00:28:24,756
Speaker 2: And you performed on that with with Iken, Tina with Tina,

510
00:28:25,796 --> 00:28:27,196
Speaker 2: and that it was it that show?

511
00:28:27,716 --> 00:28:29,756
Speaker 3: No, no, no, no. This is years later, and when

512
00:28:29,796 --> 00:28:31,476
Speaker 3: she was she and I were on tour in different

513
00:28:31,476 --> 00:28:34,236
Speaker 3: parts of Germany. Yeah, and I had one night at

514
00:28:34,236 --> 00:28:39,396
Speaker 3: the Olympia and she had two weeks booked there to rehearse. Said,

515
00:28:40,316 --> 00:28:41,836
Speaker 3: oh boy, I got a long way to go.

516
00:28:44,316 --> 00:28:47,556
Speaker 1: I see why you went to refer advice. Makes a

517
00:28:47,596 --> 00:28:48,116
Speaker 1: lot of sense.

518
00:28:49,156 --> 00:28:54,956
Speaker 2: Also, yesterday Bill Lee passed, who understandably Tina Turner's is

519
00:28:55,036 --> 00:28:57,836
Speaker 2: incredible and just des there's everything, but Bill bill Lee

520
00:28:58,916 --> 00:29:01,836
Speaker 2: really integral. It seemed to to the early folks scene

521
00:29:01,876 --> 00:29:02,796
Speaker 2: that you guys were part of.

522
00:29:02,836 --> 00:29:07,156
Speaker 3: This was Spike's father, the bass player. The first time,

523
00:29:07,236 --> 00:29:09,676
Speaker 3: first or second time, I don't remember. I went Newport

524
00:29:10,116 --> 00:29:13,116
Speaker 3: Odetta and her husband, Danny was at his name. They

525
00:29:13,236 --> 00:29:17,876
Speaker 3: drove me and he was believe was there her bass player,

526
00:29:18,356 --> 00:29:20,556
Speaker 3: and so I was in good hands.

527
00:29:20,796 --> 00:29:23,356
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's such a great bass player.

528
00:29:23,476 --> 00:29:28,876
Speaker 2: Yeah. Toggle between jazz and folk kind of seamlessly beautiful.

529
00:29:29,676 --> 00:29:32,716
Speaker 2: Back to my original point, you're hanging with You're hanging

530
00:29:32,796 --> 00:29:36,956
Speaker 2: with Tina Turner, you're hanging with Bayard Rustin and Doctor King.

531
00:29:37,716 --> 00:29:40,116
Speaker 2: I shouldn't say hanging. I should say that you're working

532
00:29:40,196 --> 00:29:43,836
Speaker 2: with these people. And I imagined to some degree your

533
00:29:43,916 --> 00:29:47,396
Speaker 2: career might have probably suffered to some degree or not suffered,

534
00:29:47,436 --> 00:29:49,636
Speaker 2: but I imagine you probably could have if you had

535
00:29:49,676 --> 00:29:51,836
Speaker 2: taken the advice of Abera Grossman and signed to Columbia

536
00:29:51,996 --> 00:29:53,716
Speaker 2: and maybe just yeah.

537
00:29:53,796 --> 00:29:55,956
Speaker 3: They were so sure, I mean the Grossman's and the

538
00:29:56,276 --> 00:29:58,476
Speaker 3: people at Columbia were so sure that I would go

539
00:29:58,556 --> 00:30:02,676
Speaker 3: with Columbia because that had Dylan and Peter Paul and

540
00:30:02,796 --> 00:30:07,476
Speaker 3: Mary Janice Joplin and just collecting them like that. So

541
00:30:07,596 --> 00:30:10,476
Speaker 3: that was the place to go. And because of all

542
00:30:10,556 --> 00:30:13,436
Speaker 3: these things about going to hell and going commercial, I

543
00:30:13,636 --> 00:30:17,756
Speaker 3: chose Vanguard Record Company, which is basically a classical music

544
00:30:17,836 --> 00:30:20,316
Speaker 3: record company, and it was perfect. I was with him

545
00:30:20,356 --> 00:30:23,596
Speaker 3: for a long time, so he's you know, had a

546
00:30:23,676 --> 00:30:26,436
Speaker 3: real sense about the polk music, did a lot of

547
00:30:26,516 --> 00:30:30,116
Speaker 3: choosing songs with me and really got into it in

548
00:30:30,196 --> 00:30:32,236
Speaker 3: a way that I know Columbia would not have done,

549
00:30:32,556 --> 00:30:33,876
Speaker 3: or I think they would not have done.

550
00:30:34,876 --> 00:30:38,236
Speaker 2: We should pull up image image one if you can

551
00:30:38,316 --> 00:30:41,756
Speaker 2: pull that up. You wrote this beautiful day, oh day

552
00:30:41,916 --> 00:30:45,436
Speaker 2: that Harry but Levonte daylight come and we want to

553
00:30:45,476 --> 00:30:45,836
Speaker 2: go home.

554
00:30:46,716 --> 00:30:49,876
Speaker 1: Harry similar I sent that to his wife.

555
00:30:50,116 --> 00:30:52,316
Speaker 3: Did yeah he was so happy?

556
00:30:52,436 --> 00:30:54,236
Speaker 1: Here Did you get a respond he saw it?

557
00:30:54,476 --> 00:30:56,676
Speaker 3: Oh? Yeah, well no he didn't. It was just after

558
00:30:56,756 --> 00:30:59,316
Speaker 3: he died. We saw him A couple of times in

559
00:30:59,396 --> 00:31:05,156
Speaker 3: his mid nineties, and he was just when my son

560
00:31:05,316 --> 00:31:07,596
Speaker 3: was with me and another friend, and when we left

561
00:31:07,756 --> 00:31:10,676
Speaker 3: talking with Harry, my son burst into tears. He said,

562
00:31:10,716 --> 00:31:12,676
Speaker 3: I feel like I've been in the presence of a

563
00:31:12,756 --> 00:31:15,836
Speaker 3: fucking prophet. And I said, well, that's because you have been,

564
00:31:16,156 --> 00:31:19,516
Speaker 3: you know, but this is slightly divorced from that. But okay,

565
00:31:19,596 --> 00:31:22,116
Speaker 3: So when I'm drawing that, there's this girl and I

566
00:31:22,156 --> 00:31:24,636
Speaker 3: see she's got a flower pot. I thought it was

567
00:31:24,676 --> 00:31:27,836
Speaker 3: a flower pot hertle basket, you know, by the flower's

568
00:31:27,876 --> 00:31:30,756
Speaker 3: coming out, And so I turned it around and I

569
00:31:30,836 --> 00:31:34,956
Speaker 3: see they're palm trees sticking out, and so, okay, turn

570
00:31:35,036 --> 00:31:36,836
Speaker 3: it back now I know they're palm trees. I'll stick

571
00:31:36,876 --> 00:31:40,356
Speaker 3: something in. There's a little elf kind of dancing. Turn

572
00:31:40,436 --> 00:31:43,436
Speaker 3: it back over and he's kicking her and aside, and

573
00:31:43,556 --> 00:31:47,476
Speaker 3: so she's saying dey odo, and that's from the palm trees, right,

574
00:31:48,196 --> 00:31:51,716
Speaker 3: And then that's just my sidekick. Then that's what came out.

575
00:31:53,156 --> 00:31:53,836
Speaker 1: So whimsical.

576
00:31:55,196 --> 00:32:00,796
Speaker 2: I love it was Harry's uh calypso music was that

577
00:32:01,236 --> 00:32:03,556
Speaker 2: at all in your Oh my god, it was what

578
00:32:03,716 --> 00:32:04,956
Speaker 2: of your sphere of influences?

579
00:32:05,156 --> 00:32:08,956
Speaker 3: Absolutely, I had not even heard or I hadn't heard

580
00:32:08,956 --> 00:32:12,356
Speaker 3: an anybody really it was rhythm and blues, and my

581
00:32:12,476 --> 00:32:15,356
Speaker 3: mom brought home this album of Hairy Pelafoni. We just

582
00:32:15,676 --> 00:32:18,396
Speaker 3: stared at it. Nobody should look like that.

583
00:32:18,756 --> 00:32:21,836
Speaker 1: He was gorgeous, he was so handsome.

584
00:32:21,876 --> 00:32:23,556
Speaker 3: I don't mean if we played it for the first

585
00:32:23,636 --> 00:32:28,036
Speaker 3: two weeks. We just stared at it. Remember my father

586
00:32:28,196 --> 00:32:32,196
Speaker 3: being a little unnerved by that. He was like, and

587
00:32:32,316 --> 00:32:34,476
Speaker 3: then yeah, and then I played it and I the

588
00:32:34,556 --> 00:32:37,156
Speaker 3: first it was kind of I don't think it. No,

589
00:32:37,356 --> 00:32:39,516
Speaker 3: it got printed or not. But this first album I

590
00:32:39,636 --> 00:32:42,876
Speaker 3: did one half of the songs were elefantie songs that

591
00:32:42,996 --> 00:32:45,396
Speaker 3: I had taken. Yeah, I took him right directly off

592
00:32:45,476 --> 00:32:46,516
Speaker 3: that album.

593
00:32:47,556 --> 00:32:51,036
Speaker 1: Wow, how was he thought of in the in the

594
00:32:51,436 --> 00:32:54,116
Speaker 1: folk scene? Was he thought of in that? I mean,

595
00:32:54,156 --> 00:32:56,476
Speaker 1: because he was taking old songs and you.

596
00:32:56,516 --> 00:33:00,036
Speaker 3: Know, well in the early snooty folk days, he was

597
00:33:00,756 --> 00:33:04,556
Speaker 3: off limits because he was, you know, banging on drums

598
00:33:04,636 --> 00:33:07,996
Speaker 3: and having a good time suposed to do you know,

599
00:33:08,596 --> 00:33:11,236
Speaker 3: And then you know, and I didn't know, of course,

600
00:33:11,316 --> 00:33:12,756
Speaker 3: none of us knew at that point that he was

601
00:33:12,796 --> 00:33:16,116
Speaker 3: going to end up being political activists and working with

602
00:33:16,196 --> 00:33:19,836
Speaker 3: doctor King. But what a lovely way to arrive, you know.

603
00:33:20,156 --> 00:33:23,476
Speaker 2: Yeah, after this last ad break, we'll be back with

604
00:33:23,556 --> 00:33:27,036
Speaker 2: the rest of my conversation with the great Joan Biaz

605
00:33:27,396 --> 00:33:34,516
Speaker 2: live from Chicago. And now the rest of my conversation

606
00:33:34,956 --> 00:33:40,396
Speaker 2: with Joan Biass speaking of the early snooty folk days

607
00:33:41,236 --> 00:33:43,676
Speaker 2: as a person who was barely you know, gleaning in

608
00:33:43,716 --> 00:33:46,476
Speaker 2: my parents eyes when you started your career. I came

609
00:33:46,516 --> 00:33:50,716
Speaker 2: to folk music relatively late, and I came through the

610
00:33:50,836 --> 00:33:55,436
Speaker 2: Kingston Trio, who I love, and I was dismayed to

611
00:33:55,516 --> 00:33:56,356
Speaker 2: find out.

612
00:33:56,636 --> 00:34:00,116
Speaker 3: I had to hide them at the back of the

613
00:34:00,196 --> 00:34:03,596
Speaker 3: record collection. Really, yeah, because you're not something They're way

614
00:34:03,676 --> 00:34:08,036
Speaker 3: too commercial. You had kings loved them, Yeah, but I

615
00:34:08,076 --> 00:34:10,876
Speaker 3: couldn't let anybody know. I mean, am a snooty folks

616
00:34:10,876 --> 00:34:12,516
Speaker 3: saying no, ma'am no.

617
00:34:12,996 --> 00:34:14,516
Speaker 1: I feel vindicated. I love that.

618
00:34:15,476 --> 00:34:16,556
Speaker 3: I feel vindicated.

619
00:34:16,956 --> 00:34:17,236
Speaker 1: Great.

620
00:34:17,796 --> 00:34:19,756
Speaker 2: I couldn't hide them on my iPod in the day,

621
00:34:19,836 --> 00:34:21,196
Speaker 2: so you know, I just took them off because I

622
00:34:21,196 --> 00:34:21,756
Speaker 2: didn't want.

623
00:34:21,596 --> 00:34:23,996
Speaker 3: To be guilty guilty pleasure yeah, yeah, yeah.

624
00:34:24,236 --> 00:34:26,236
Speaker 2: Replaced it with the latter day Dylan record or something

625
00:34:26,316 --> 00:34:28,756
Speaker 2: to you know. Atone for my sins?

626
00:34:29,516 --> 00:34:31,316
Speaker 1: Can we go to the next image?

627
00:34:31,396 --> 00:34:34,316
Speaker 2: I think it's image. Make sure I got my images

628
00:34:34,396 --> 00:34:37,436
Speaker 2: right there we go. Yeah, this one that's.

629
00:34:37,436 --> 00:34:41,196
Speaker 3: Very Sophie's choice. Looking to me, they made me choose,

630
00:34:41,316 --> 00:34:45,196
Speaker 3: so I'm assuming I'm thinking between her two kids or

631
00:34:45,276 --> 00:34:47,796
Speaker 3: three kids, they made her choose which one she was

632
00:34:47,876 --> 00:34:50,876
Speaker 3: going to be able to keep. That's my guess.

633
00:34:51,276 --> 00:34:55,076
Speaker 2: New My guess was much lamer than that. She kind

634
00:34:55,116 --> 00:34:59,716
Speaker 2: of looked like Joni Mitchell to me, I tried to

635
00:34:59,796 --> 00:35:00,116
Speaker 2: warn you.

636
00:35:00,316 --> 00:35:01,356
Speaker 1: I didn't want to tell.

637
00:35:01,236 --> 00:35:06,196
Speaker 3: You she's checking which label, which record label to go on?

638
00:35:06,316 --> 00:35:08,396
Speaker 1: They know, well, you know, I didn't know.

639
00:35:08,436 --> 00:35:16,156
Speaker 3: I mean, she's saying Columbia or Vanguard, no not, you know, no, So.

640
00:35:16,196 --> 00:35:18,356
Speaker 2: I'm not I thought, Okay, well, look at Jonny Mitchell.

641
00:35:18,356 --> 00:35:21,116
Speaker 2: Maybe was she she feel like she was being Did

642
00:35:21,116 --> 00:35:23,196
Speaker 2: she ever feel like she's being pitted against other women

643
00:35:23,276 --> 00:35:24,036
Speaker 2: in the industry?

644
00:35:24,356 --> 00:35:28,916
Speaker 3: Or that is so wild? I mean, Kevin idea, what

645
00:35:29,316 --> 00:35:31,996
Speaker 3: people go through looking at this stuff? You know, in

646
00:35:32,116 --> 00:35:34,316
Speaker 3: a billion years, I wouldn't have thought that that was

647
00:35:34,396 --> 00:35:38,636
Speaker 3: Jonny Mitchell's searching for record company someone else.

648
00:35:38,716 --> 00:35:46,596
Speaker 2: Want to give an interpretation where if we go back

649
00:35:46,636 --> 00:35:50,076
Speaker 2: to the genesis of this, where would you have.

650
00:35:50,236 --> 00:35:54,836
Speaker 1: Started That oval means it's a head, so you start

651
00:35:54,836 --> 00:35:55,356
Speaker 1: with the oval.

652
00:35:55,556 --> 00:35:58,156
Speaker 3: I think so usually yes, then an ear or two.

653
00:35:58,836 --> 00:36:01,516
Speaker 2: So by the time you do an oval, though, you know, oh, okay,

654
00:36:01,556 --> 00:36:05,516
Speaker 2: it's probably a face. So then you go to ears.

655
00:36:06,036 --> 00:36:08,196
Speaker 3: I go to ears, I go to some weird hair thing.

656
00:36:08,436 --> 00:36:11,276
Speaker 3: Their eyes, a lot of the eyes are very similar,

657
00:36:11,516 --> 00:36:15,036
Speaker 3: except they're looking in different places, you know, and so

658
00:36:15,156 --> 00:36:17,796
Speaker 3: a lot of what's written on there will be determined

659
00:36:17,796 --> 00:36:19,196
Speaker 3: by what their eyes are doing.

660
00:36:19,476 --> 00:36:23,716
Speaker 1: Really, yeah, yeah, when did you add the tears.

661
00:36:23,916 --> 00:36:24,836
Speaker 3: Had what the tears?

662
00:36:25,036 --> 00:36:25,236
Speaker 1: Yeah?

663
00:36:25,316 --> 00:36:28,476
Speaker 3: Probably early on to give it some character whatever it

664
00:36:28,636 --> 00:36:30,476
Speaker 3: was going to be. It would make it, you know,

665
00:36:30,516 --> 00:36:32,036
Speaker 3: would have some definition to it.

666
00:36:32,836 --> 00:36:37,836
Speaker 1: And when did you decide that it wasn't Joni Mitchell? Yeah?

667
00:36:37,996 --> 00:36:44,476
Speaker 1: What points did you decide? I want to add that

668
00:36:44,596 --> 00:36:46,116
Speaker 1: was my other guesses. Maybe it was Odetta.

669
00:36:46,196 --> 00:36:46,356
Speaker 2: Yeah.

670
00:36:50,076 --> 00:36:52,276
Speaker 1: Why did Why the color? Why the color on the scarf?

671
00:36:52,476 --> 00:36:55,036
Speaker 3: Oh? I don't know. I just but each of them

672
00:36:55,156 --> 00:36:57,116
Speaker 3: has a little bit of color. I just got carried

673
00:36:57,116 --> 00:36:59,396
Speaker 3: away and started adding a little bit of color to

674
00:36:59,436 --> 00:37:02,196
Speaker 3: each of these things. If I did too much red,

675
00:37:02,236 --> 00:37:05,116
Speaker 3: then I'd skip over to that looks like orange and purple.

676
00:37:05,596 --> 00:37:07,476
Speaker 3: But you know what I'm thinking is one of my

677
00:37:07,636 --> 00:37:12,276
Speaker 3: mother's stepmothers was really horrible and her favorite colors were

678
00:37:12,316 --> 00:37:15,956
Speaker 3: orange and purple. So who knows, you know.

679
00:37:17,476 --> 00:37:18,956
Speaker 1: That's interesting. Why was she so?

680
00:37:19,476 --> 00:37:23,556
Speaker 3: What was Well, she's schizophrenic, lunatic, and she was, and

681
00:37:23,676 --> 00:37:26,596
Speaker 3: she was very abusive to my mother and my mother's sister,

682
00:37:27,116 --> 00:37:29,836
Speaker 3: my mother's sister the one who did the standing waves.

683
00:37:30,916 --> 00:37:31,756
Speaker 3: So she pulled through.

684
00:37:31,796 --> 00:37:36,356
Speaker 2: Okay, good, good. Would your mother talk to you about

685
00:37:36,516 --> 00:37:38,836
Speaker 2: those sorts of things she did?

686
00:37:38,956 --> 00:37:42,156
Speaker 3: We'd push her a little bit. I guess she watched

687
00:37:42,196 --> 00:37:45,556
Speaker 3: a lot of the abuse, and so it's maybe even harder,

688
00:37:45,836 --> 00:37:49,196
Speaker 3: they say, if you're just seeing this stuff that you

689
00:37:49,236 --> 00:37:51,956
Speaker 3: don't have something to grab on to to try and

690
00:37:52,076 --> 00:37:57,436
Speaker 3: change or heal. My mother discovered andy depressants when she

691
00:37:57,596 --> 00:37:59,916
Speaker 3: was in her seventies, and when she realized she'd been

692
00:37:59,956 --> 00:38:05,236
Speaker 3: depressed all like, she said, oh oh, she's saying things

693
00:38:05,276 --> 00:38:07,876
Speaker 3: like I didn't realize there are peppers growing on that

694
00:38:07,956 --> 00:38:10,836
Speaker 3: pepper tree. Oh there's just so really yeah.

695
00:38:10,916 --> 00:38:13,836
Speaker 2: I had a similar experience, similar experience with that a depressant,

696
00:38:13,836 --> 00:38:17,556
Speaker 2: similar experience also with I finally got eyeglasses too. Wow,

697
00:38:18,796 --> 00:38:21,996
Speaker 2: I remember seeing things, you know, Wow, I remember being happy.

698
00:38:22,156 --> 00:38:28,196
Speaker 1: Wow, this is great. Thank God for any depressants and eyeglasses.

699
00:38:29,156 --> 00:38:30,396
Speaker 1: Two things that I've saved.

700
00:38:30,156 --> 00:38:33,156
Speaker 3: My life enough for Joni Mitchell, You've not enough of Joni?

701
00:38:33,276 --> 00:38:37,756
Speaker 1: You know, uh I really well, never mind.

702
00:38:40,236 --> 00:38:42,516
Speaker 3: You're scoring one hundred, so go ahead, okay?

703
00:38:43,196 --> 00:38:44,476
Speaker 1: Did you well?

704
00:38:44,556 --> 00:38:47,556
Speaker 2: Because I thought that perhaps this could have been a choice, Like,

705
00:38:47,636 --> 00:38:51,836
Speaker 2: did you ever feel in the industry in those days?

706
00:38:52,636 --> 00:38:54,276
Speaker 2: A lot of women in the industry that I've spoken

707
00:38:54,316 --> 00:38:57,156
Speaker 2: to still, I know, they feel like they're pitted against

708
00:38:57,196 --> 00:39:00,196
Speaker 2: one another almost, like when for a while there could

709
00:39:00,196 --> 00:39:02,636
Speaker 2: be like one black comedian, Like now she's like there

710
00:39:02,676 --> 00:39:05,356
Speaker 2: could be one like woman rapper, you know, like, did

711
00:39:05,436 --> 00:39:08,596
Speaker 2: it feel like there could be Did that pressure to

712
00:39:08,756 --> 00:39:10,516
Speaker 2: compete against women exist?

713
00:39:10,916 --> 00:39:13,156
Speaker 1: Then? For you?

714
00:39:13,876 --> 00:39:18,476
Speaker 3: I didn't think I any need to compete against There

715
00:39:18,556 --> 00:39:22,916
Speaker 3: was no competition in my in my you know, weird

716
00:39:23,036 --> 00:39:26,596
Speaker 3: little brain, because I was so insecure in so many ways.

717
00:39:27,196 --> 00:39:30,756
Speaker 3: But not about this voice, which also is a gift,

718
00:39:30,876 --> 00:39:32,796
Speaker 3: and I can I can claim it as a gift.

719
00:39:40,596 --> 00:39:43,476
Speaker 1: Can we hear some of that voice? No no, no, no, no,

720
00:39:43,756 --> 00:39:44,676
Speaker 1: no no no.

721
00:39:44,956 --> 00:39:51,356
Speaker 5: I ain't gonna let nobody turn me around, turn me around,

722
00:39:52,476 --> 00:39:57,516
Speaker 5: turn me around. Ain't gonna let nobody turn me around.

723
00:39:58,516 --> 00:40:03,756
Speaker 3: Keep on walking, keep on talking, marching up.

724
00:40:03,756 --> 00:40:20,796
Speaker 6: To Freedom Land, amazing.

725
00:40:21,556 --> 00:40:24,476
Speaker 1: Can't follow that. We should follow that with Q and A,

726
00:40:24,636 --> 00:40:28,076
Speaker 1: so you guys can try to follow that. Maybe we should.

727
00:40:28,236 --> 00:40:30,516
Speaker 2: We should We turn it over to the audience for

728
00:40:30,596 --> 00:40:35,876
Speaker 2: some questions. We got some people out there with the microphones.

729
00:40:35,876 --> 00:40:39,156
Speaker 2: If you want to ask a question, and again, a question,

730
00:40:39,316 --> 00:40:39,956
Speaker 2: not a comment.

731
00:40:40,476 --> 00:40:42,796
Speaker 3: I will remind you a story. Somebody gave me his

732
00:40:42,916 --> 00:40:45,076
Speaker 3: T shirt and said, please don't tell me your story,

733
00:40:46,636 --> 00:40:48,436
Speaker 3: and I loved it, and then he commenced to tell

734
00:40:48,476 --> 00:40:50,236
Speaker 3: me the whole story of how he bought it and

735
00:40:50,276 --> 00:40:51,156
Speaker 3: where he founded him.

736
00:40:54,116 --> 00:40:55,676
Speaker 1: Our first question will be up here.

737
00:40:57,556 --> 00:40:59,876
Speaker 3: Hi, Joan, thank you so much for joining us. This

738
00:41:00,036 --> 00:41:02,916
Speaker 3: is so cool. My question is what do you do

739
00:41:03,316 --> 00:41:09,196
Speaker 3: when you don't know what to do next? Well, one

740
00:41:09,196 --> 00:41:12,156
Speaker 3: of the things I do is I talk to this tree.

741
00:41:13,116 --> 00:41:15,876
Speaker 3: There's a mighty oak tree in a field across from

742
00:41:15,916 --> 00:41:19,476
Speaker 3: the house. And I don't see therapists anymore, but I

743
00:41:19,556 --> 00:41:21,596
Speaker 3: will go and talk to this tree and I will

744
00:41:21,636 --> 00:41:24,636
Speaker 3: get an answer. And I either go to the tree

745
00:41:24,716 --> 00:41:27,916
Speaker 3: and say, listen, can you help me understand this problem

746
00:41:28,036 --> 00:41:30,556
Speaker 3: so I'll feel better? And sometimes I just say I

747
00:41:30,636 --> 00:41:32,996
Speaker 3: want to feel better. I don't care what the problem is.

748
00:41:33,156 --> 00:41:35,036
Speaker 3: I don't want to I just want to feel better.

749
00:41:35,556 --> 00:41:38,036
Speaker 3: And if it's what do I do next, that's where

750
00:41:38,076 --> 00:41:40,396
Speaker 3: I would go. It will be that tree. But generally

751
00:41:40,476 --> 00:41:41,836
Speaker 3: I don't have to ask the question.

752
00:41:44,836 --> 00:41:49,356
Speaker 1: It's a great question. Nicense. Is SYNCD too, Yeah, well

753
00:41:49,436 --> 00:41:50,196
Speaker 1: we have someone up here.

754
00:41:50,516 --> 00:41:50,756
Speaker 5: Hello.

755
00:41:51,716 --> 00:41:54,516
Speaker 7: I've listened to Diamonds and Rust many times, and every

756
00:41:54,556 --> 00:41:56,836
Speaker 7: time I listen to it, I say, if that's not

757
00:41:57,116 --> 00:42:02,396
Speaker 7: Dylan you're talking about. But then in your book you

758
00:42:02,476 --> 00:42:05,996
Speaker 7: said no. When Dylan called you, if I remember the

759
00:42:06,036 --> 00:42:10,276
Speaker 7: book correctly, you denied it. And were you kidding him?

760
00:42:10,476 --> 00:42:11,716
Speaker 1: I mean, how could that not?

761
00:42:11,836 --> 00:42:13,316
Speaker 3: Don't understand how I denied it.

762
00:42:13,996 --> 00:42:16,876
Speaker 7: In your book when you wrote about Diamonds and Rust

763
00:42:16,956 --> 00:42:20,756
Speaker 7: In your book, you said that, at least if my

764
00:42:20,916 --> 00:42:23,796
Speaker 7: memory serves at my agent may not. You said that

765
00:42:23,876 --> 00:42:27,716
Speaker 7: when he called you to thank you about writing about

766
00:42:27,796 --> 00:42:32,356
Speaker 7: him in Diamonds and Rust, you told him, now that

767
00:42:32,516 --> 00:42:33,316
Speaker 7: wasn't about you.

768
00:42:33,676 --> 00:42:35,996
Speaker 3: Okay, I got it now, I got it now. First

769
00:42:35,996 --> 00:42:38,596
Speaker 3: of all, he would never call and say anything about

770
00:42:38,596 --> 00:42:46,276
Speaker 3: the song, so rob that. But but I was joking

771
00:42:46,356 --> 00:42:49,356
Speaker 3: with him because at the beginning of Rolling Thunder and

772
00:42:49,716 --> 00:42:52,036
Speaker 3: he hadn't paid any attention, had no hol Owan or

773
00:42:52,076 --> 00:42:54,836
Speaker 3: whatever came directly over and said are you going to

774
00:42:54,876 --> 00:42:56,436
Speaker 3: do that one about the guy with the blue eyes?

775
00:42:56,996 --> 00:43:00,596
Speaker 3: I said, oh, you mean my husband and he was

776
00:43:00,876 --> 00:43:08,716
Speaker 3: not a happy camphor. That's the story, though, I have

777
00:43:08,916 --> 00:43:09,836
Speaker 3: to questions.

778
00:43:10,436 --> 00:43:15,716
Speaker 8: My first question is do you have any communications whatsoever.

779
00:43:15,436 --> 00:43:19,276
Speaker 1: With Joni Mitchell and Mitchell?

780
00:43:19,396 --> 00:43:19,956
Speaker 3: Yeah, I know.

781
00:43:20,476 --> 00:43:23,836
Speaker 8: And my second one is what type of activism are

782
00:43:23,916 --> 00:43:25,156
Speaker 8: you involved in today?

783
00:43:26,636 --> 00:43:30,516
Speaker 3: Okay? First of all, I never had a closeness with Joni.

784
00:43:30,596 --> 00:43:32,196
Speaker 3: I've worked with her a couple of times, and I

785
00:43:32,276 --> 00:43:36,116
Speaker 3: admire her enormously and I was really happy to see

786
00:43:36,156 --> 00:43:38,436
Speaker 3: here where was it Newport? When she came out? I

787
00:43:38,516 --> 00:43:40,756
Speaker 3: thought that was brilliant. What was the next question?

788
00:43:42,436 --> 00:43:44,356
Speaker 1: What do you do for activism currently?

789
00:43:44,556 --> 00:43:45,196
Speaker 4: What am I doing?

790
00:43:45,356 --> 00:43:46,956
Speaker 1: How do you act?

791
00:43:49,756 --> 00:43:51,876
Speaker 3: Well? First of all, I wrote the book. I mean

792
00:43:51,916 --> 00:43:55,116
Speaker 3: I'm thinking about that's probably more political than a number

793
00:43:55,156 --> 00:43:57,796
Speaker 3: of things that I could have done. And if something

794
00:43:57,876 --> 00:44:00,076
Speaker 3: comes along that I really think is appropriate for me

795
00:44:00,156 --> 00:44:02,396
Speaker 3: to be out there with, then I'm sure I'll be

796
00:44:02,476 --> 00:44:05,356
Speaker 3: out there and I can. You know, I suggest to

797
00:44:05,436 --> 00:44:07,556
Speaker 3: other people that they go make good trouble because it

798
00:44:07,676 --> 00:44:10,956
Speaker 3: makes their lives, you know, really worth something. I believe

799
00:44:11,356 --> 00:44:18,076
Speaker 3: what you got on Yay Okay, any other questions, Yeah,

800
00:44:18,076 --> 00:44:19,956
Speaker 3: I got a question up here up here.

801
00:44:20,156 --> 00:44:23,316
Speaker 9: Yeah, So that was an interesting story about the box

802
00:44:24,436 --> 00:44:26,916
Speaker 9: with the you know, tapes in it and so forth

803
00:44:26,996 --> 00:44:30,716
Speaker 9: that the filmmaker's got. And I think that many people

804
00:44:30,876 --> 00:44:33,156
Speaker 9: have boxes like that in their attics and so forth,

805
00:44:33,276 --> 00:44:36,996
Speaker 9: with old things, you know, and so forth. So I

806
00:44:37,116 --> 00:44:41,276
Speaker 9: guess I'm curious how did you decide like you decided

807
00:44:41,316 --> 00:44:43,316
Speaker 9: to give it to them to deal with, And then

808
00:44:43,396 --> 00:44:47,236
Speaker 9: you also said, if I understood right, that you're not

809
00:44:47,396 --> 00:44:49,196
Speaker 9: going to look at that stuff ever again. Can you

810
00:44:49,316 --> 00:44:52,636
Speaker 9: talk about how you made those decisions? That's quite profound.

811
00:44:53,276 --> 00:44:54,876
Speaker 9: I can't wait to see the documentary.

812
00:44:56,116 --> 00:44:59,676
Speaker 3: Thank you, thank you. I just meant that after this

813
00:44:59,916 --> 00:45:02,716
Speaker 3: film is done and I've seen it all, and the

814
00:45:02,756 --> 00:45:05,316
Speaker 3: stuff that i'd never seen before I didn't know anybody

815
00:45:05,396 --> 00:45:08,476
Speaker 3: had kept, I have no desire to revisit that and

816
00:45:08,556 --> 00:45:10,956
Speaker 3: try to drag much more stuff out of those boxes.

817
00:45:11,316 --> 00:45:15,556
Speaker 3: I think that's enough, though, what do you will?

818
00:45:15,596 --> 00:45:16,316
Speaker 1: You destroy them?

819
00:45:17,236 --> 00:45:18,796
Speaker 3: You know, I don't know what I'm gonna do with them.

820
00:45:19,316 --> 00:45:23,236
Speaker 3: It probably is the time to have a glorious bonfire

821
00:45:23,356 --> 00:45:26,396
Speaker 3: with a bunch of prayers stuck you know, here and

822
00:45:26,436 --> 00:45:29,116
Speaker 3: there in it's right, guys, and it's sacred to do.

823
00:45:29,396 --> 00:45:34,796
Speaker 3: I mean, otherwise, this stuff, it's just a museum. They

824
00:45:34,836 --> 00:45:36,716
Speaker 3: don't want to hear. They don't want to hear that ship.

825
00:45:36,836 --> 00:45:37,596
Speaker 3: I promise you.

826
00:45:41,596 --> 00:45:42,236
Speaker 1: I would like to.

827
00:45:42,636 --> 00:45:46,756
Speaker 4: Ask you a question. I'm right here, I'm your sound engineer. Okay,

828
00:45:50,716 --> 00:45:53,796
Speaker 4: I'm originally from Argentina, and I would like to ask

829
00:45:53,876 --> 00:45:58,716
Speaker 4: you about if you see any differences or similarities in

830
00:45:58,836 --> 00:46:02,516
Speaker 4: the activism in South America and in America.

831
00:46:05,796 --> 00:46:07,396
Speaker 3: I think I don't know how to answer that question,

832
00:46:07,516 --> 00:46:10,196
Speaker 3: except that I think that some places you pay a

833
00:46:10,236 --> 00:46:13,276
Speaker 3: heavier toll. You know, it's okay for me to sit

834
00:46:13,356 --> 00:46:15,956
Speaker 3: here and talk about taking a risk, and in your

835
00:46:16,156 --> 00:46:20,716
Speaker 3: a country like Afghanistan or the Ukraine, taking a risk

836
00:46:20,876 --> 00:46:24,236
Speaker 3: is a very different thing. And so in Latin America

837
00:46:24,316 --> 00:46:28,876
Speaker 3: it's somewhere in between. No, but the bravery it takes

838
00:46:29,076 --> 00:46:30,836
Speaker 3: anywhere to make that final.

839
00:46:31,636 --> 00:46:31,796
Speaker 2: You know.

840
00:46:31,996 --> 00:46:33,996
Speaker 3: I'm just going to do this. I just have to

841
00:46:34,116 --> 00:46:37,196
Speaker 3: do this. I mean here, it might be okay. I'm

842
00:46:37,196 --> 00:46:38,956
Speaker 3: going to go in a library and pick out a

843
00:46:39,076 --> 00:46:41,476
Speaker 3: band book and I'm going to read it out on

844
00:46:41,516 --> 00:46:43,676
Speaker 3: the street corner. I'm going to set up a microphone

845
00:46:43,676 --> 00:46:45,436
Speaker 3: and a thing I'm going to read the book, you know,

846
00:46:46,916 --> 00:46:49,476
Speaker 3: something like that, and where gays are not supposed to

847
00:46:49,516 --> 00:46:53,156
Speaker 3: get married, you organize, you know, a huge wedding of

848
00:46:53,396 --> 00:46:56,876
Speaker 3: as many people as you can get. And those are

849
00:46:57,036 --> 00:47:02,916
Speaker 3: forms of nonviolent civilist obedience which are invaluable and scary,

850
00:47:03,076 --> 00:47:10,356
Speaker 3: and we got to do them anyhow, Read a couple more. Okay,

851
00:47:10,356 --> 00:47:10,596
Speaker 3: I have a.

852
00:47:10,676 --> 00:47:15,796
Speaker 8: Question I'm going to My question was, is our country doomed?

853
00:47:16,876 --> 00:47:18,276
Speaker 3: And yes, m h.

854
00:47:19,796 --> 00:47:22,796
Speaker 8: And someone who has, you know, lived through the civil

855
00:47:22,916 --> 00:47:26,876
Speaker 8: rights movement, what words of encouragement do you have for

856
00:47:27,436 --> 00:47:30,716
Speaker 8: somebody like me who's really disheartened with the you know,

857
00:47:31,036 --> 00:47:32,836
Speaker 8: state of affairs in our country today.

858
00:47:33,636 --> 00:47:36,116
Speaker 3: Well, your question is an oxymoron. Do I have any hope?

859
00:47:36,196 --> 00:47:40,956
Speaker 3: Not particularly? But the other day somebody said hope is

860
00:47:40,996 --> 00:47:45,276
Speaker 3: a discipline, you know. I think that's because I don't

861
00:47:45,276 --> 00:47:50,636
Speaker 3: consider myself a very hopeful person. I've managed to shift

862
00:47:50,716 --> 00:47:55,716
Speaker 3: over from being a total pessimist to somebody considering hope.

863
00:47:56,476 --> 00:47:58,636
Speaker 3: But it would be a practice, I mean, you have

864
00:47:58,756 --> 00:48:01,556
Speaker 3: to practice it because this is not a hopeful world.

865
00:48:02,076 --> 00:48:04,796
Speaker 3: This is not a hopeful country. This is this is

866
00:48:05,396 --> 00:48:08,636
Speaker 3: heading towards and parts of it already are a fascist country.

867
00:48:09,396 --> 00:48:10,716
Speaker 1: So what do we do?

868
00:48:11,476 --> 00:48:14,196
Speaker 3: Actually, I made a list. I was sharing it with

869
00:48:14,476 --> 00:48:16,876
Speaker 3: justin theause people say what do I do? And I've

870
00:48:16,916 --> 00:48:19,836
Speaker 3: always given this dumb stare. But now I've made a

871
00:48:19,956 --> 00:48:23,596
Speaker 3: list of which I will post on my Instagram and

872
00:48:23,876 --> 00:48:29,756
Speaker 3: or Facebook page, which with suggestions. I mean, from gun

873
00:48:29,916 --> 00:48:34,516
Speaker 3: violence to the Ukraine, to women's rights to They're all

874
00:48:34,676 --> 00:48:37,476
Speaker 3: these things somebody could get on different levels. You can donate,

875
00:48:37,956 --> 00:48:40,836
Speaker 3: you can support, or you can at some point take

876
00:48:40,876 --> 00:48:43,436
Speaker 3: a risk. You know, all are valuable.

877
00:48:46,956 --> 00:48:53,516
Speaker 10: All right, last question, My question is about women in

878
00:48:53,636 --> 00:49:00,996
Speaker 10: Iran and non violence resistance. You know that they came

879
00:49:02,316 --> 00:49:06,116
Speaker 10: non violent on the street and they faced with the

880
00:49:06,196 --> 00:49:10,916
Speaker 10: bullet in their eyes cution, and it's going on for

881
00:49:10,996 --> 00:49:15,076
Speaker 10: the past two weeks, fifty people have been executed only

882
00:49:15,516 --> 00:49:19,396
Speaker 10: for being on the street. How do we have this answer?

883
00:49:19,996 --> 00:49:24,796
Speaker 10: How we can deal with this violence, brutal violence that

884
00:49:25,636 --> 00:49:28,316
Speaker 10: people around the world. Is not just Iran, but Iran.

885
00:49:28,396 --> 00:49:30,756
Speaker 10: I think it's on one of the top on the top.

886
00:49:32,116 --> 00:49:34,916
Speaker 3: All we know is it trying to deal with it

887
00:49:35,036 --> 00:49:38,916
Speaker 3: with violence? Is immorse that you can't crush the state.

888
00:49:39,716 --> 00:49:42,956
Speaker 3: I'm not telling anybody what they're supposed to do. I'm

889
00:49:43,076 --> 00:49:47,036
Speaker 3: just looking at historically, what has been done and why

890
00:49:47,156 --> 00:49:49,836
Speaker 3: we've arrived at the state where we looked at violence

891
00:49:49,956 --> 00:49:52,756
Speaker 3: is the only answer. I wish I had an answer

892
00:49:52,876 --> 00:49:58,236
Speaker 3: for you. I painted Mushia among my mischief makers, and

893
00:49:59,356 --> 00:50:03,996
Speaker 3: it's too overwhelming the sorrow to spend a lot of

894
00:50:04,076 --> 00:50:07,996
Speaker 3: time thinking about these different places, certainly including around way

895
00:50:08,076 --> 00:50:08,716
Speaker 3: high on the list.

896
00:50:08,756 --> 00:50:12,316
Speaker 1: As you said, one last one, happy one, I hope.

897
00:50:12,676 --> 00:50:15,876
Speaker 1: What advice would you give to new singer songwriters?

898
00:50:16,356 --> 00:50:19,836
Speaker 3: You a singer songwriter? Yeah, okay, no, I wish I

899
00:50:19,916 --> 00:50:23,276
Speaker 3: had something brilliant to say except bravo and go make

900
00:50:23,316 --> 00:50:23,956
Speaker 3: good trouble.

901
00:50:29,076 --> 00:50:29,836
Speaker 1: Thank you so much.

902
00:50:36,356 --> 00:50:38,516
Speaker 2: I want to thank Joan Baez for the live conversation

903
00:50:38,676 --> 00:50:42,236
Speaker 2: we had from the Chicago Humanities Festival. Be sure to

904
00:50:42,316 --> 00:50:44,556
Speaker 2: check out her new book, Am I Pretty When I Fly?

905
00:50:44,916 --> 00:50:49,196
Speaker 2: Available mostly wherever books are sold. You can hear all

906
00:50:49,276 --> 00:50:51,676
Speaker 2: of our favorite songs from the great Joan Baez on

907
00:50:51,796 --> 00:50:55,316
Speaker 2: a playlist at Broken Record podcast dot com. You can

908
00:50:55,356 --> 00:50:58,276
Speaker 2: subscribe to our YouTube channel at YouTube dot com slash

909
00:50:58,356 --> 00:50:59,796
Speaker 2: broken Record Podcast, where you.

910
00:50:59,796 --> 00:51:01,876
Speaker 1: Can find all of our new episodes.

911
00:51:02,596 --> 00:51:06,156
Speaker 2: Broken Record is produced with help from Leah Rose, Jason Gambrell,

912
00:51:06,436 --> 00:51:10,756
Speaker 2: Ben Talliday, Misha Venkatt, Jordan mcmah millen, and Eric Sandler.

913
00:51:11,396 --> 00:51:15,716
Speaker 2: Our editor is Sophie Craik. Brooken Record is a production

914
00:51:15,836 --> 00:51:18,596
Speaker 2: of Pushkin Industries. If you love this show and others

915
00:51:18,596 --> 00:51:23,316
Speaker 2: from Pushkin, consider subscribing to Pushkin Plus. Pushkin Plus is

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Speaker 2: a podcast subscription service that offers bonus content and unintrupted

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Speaker 2: ad free listening for only four ninety nine a month.

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Speaker 2: Look for Pushkin Plus on Apple podcast subscriptions, and if

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Speaker 2: you like the show, remember to share, rate, and review

920
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Speaker 2: us on your podcast app.

921
00:51:39,836 --> 00:51:42,636
Speaker 1: Our theme us expect Canny Beats. I'm Justin Richard.